Driving Jaguar's GT and is the Porsche Boxster EV dead? With Henry Catchpole | Episode 39

That engine, that's been around, I mean, Noah looked at you.

Yeah, for the art, remapped, popcorn bangs.

Hello, and welcome to episode 39 of the Evo podcast.

I'm here with Henry Catchpole, John Barker, Stu Gallagher.

Hello. Good.

Or good. Yeah.

What have we been up to to kick off, Henry?

I have been on the Ferrari Testarossa launch,

day 49 Testarossa launch, which I don't know you talked about in the last podcast,

but I then when we got back from that,

we shot a little bit of extra for the film.

So I went down to deca-engineering and shot the they've got a David Cottingham

seniors for like 40 years.

He's owned this 500 TRC.

So the very first test, the 500 TR was the very first one in the sea.

They basically just modified it for Appendix C of the regulations.

I think I have a full width windscreen

and had to have a passenger door as well.

And sort of just little things like that.

So it's basically exactly 700-500 TR.

Did you get to drive it?

Didn't get to drive it this time. No, no, it was kind of.

But he does drive it, apparently, like through summer, he drives it all the time.

Oh, that's like basically dailies this car, which is awesome.

And he's got four cylinder in it as well,

because that's one of the reasons I wanted to sort of like people

going on about the new Testarossa.

Oh, it's not it's not a 12 cylinder sort of unit.

It's absolutely heresy.

It's like the original Testarossa was a was a four cylinder.

So it kind of like it's sort of did that.

And then they had a really nice single mirror 80s Testarossa as well.

So very cool.

Did those, which is really fun to have a look around.

Yeah. How'd you go on with the new car?

I like it in the corner.

So yeah, yeah, I love the wrong.

I love the way I drive.

The engine obviously doesn't sound great.

Kind of like it's so much better than the track spec.

I thought kind of with the titanium and less sound deadening

and titanium silencer and stuff.

But I thought it I kept wanting to compare it to Revolta Valley.

Obviously, yeah.

But I think the it struck me sort of towards, you know,

actually it fits with the Doricci Cilindri now

because they've basically fries taken the Revolta

and sort of chops it in two.

And they've got their natural aspirated V12, no hybrid

rear wheel drive car over there.

And then they've got the, yeah, it's 200 K and is lighter

the Testarossa than the Revolta.

So they've kind of got their more performance, you know,

and I think it makes, to me, it made more sense as a sort

of the stripped out one year manual seats, kind of the track

spec, the set of Fiorano.

A bit more singular.

Yeah, just kind of if you've got the two, then to me,

it made more sense as a proposition

because you can see where it fits within the wider Ferrari range.

Because I think that's what I wasn't sure about before I went there.

Yeah.

I do think it looks way better kind of when I see all the pictures

obviously when it was launched and for a tourist

for doing terrible job of the press images.

So I thought it looked an absolute mess when I saw it.

Yeah, it's kind of a man of fashion.

I'm then sort of, okay, I never merges.

But seeing it there, I thought it really,

it's got proper presence and kind of it's got its own image.

Kind of got that sort of main character energy

that I don't think SF 90 ever quite had.

Yeah.

And it's kind of, and it looks big as well.

So it has that sort of in the same way that

an 80s tester also looks big.

Yeah, it's got the shoulder pads out

and it's got the same sort of vibe with that.

But it actually feels really small when you drive it,

which is nice.

Cool. Yeah.

I think Dickey's conclusion in the mag was that

he's really impressed with it,

but the 296 offers so much as it is as a road car.

Is that kind of where your head was at with it,

or is it just another step on again?

I mean, yes, it's 296, 296 Spatiali,

not long before I did Dickey,

obviously we were on the same launch.

And yeah, you see how much more forms,

and so drivable despite being a real world drive as well.

So how much more do you need?

The only thing I'd say is that on Mont Blanco

is the circuit where the launch was,

and it's got that amazing,

so it was nearly a kilometer long strain.

And the 296 GTB launch had been there as well,

and the Aston Vantage launch,

and I went back and checked to see what speed we were doing

at the end of the straight before it braked.

And the test roster was, you know,

getting on for 20 miles an hour faster

at the end of the straight. Wow.

Which is a B, that shows kind of what,

what more do you need more performance than,

you know what I'm saying?

No, I'm not saying that, but,

but there is a more performance there,

that is kind of, that's mighty impressive,

I thought.

You've got to stop it as well.

Yeah.

And it's a big break into Mont Blanco, isn't it?

Yeah, oh, certainly.

Pretty heavy.

So yeah, I thought that was quite interesting,

because I hadn't, it brought it home to me kind of,

because they all feel fast,

but that was a pretty good demonstration of what it is.

Other end of the spectrum,

John, you've been driving, what was it, a Golf?

Yeah, 1.4 Golf.

Yeah.

With 16-inch wheels and tyres.

On snow though, which is good fun.

On snow, yeah.

Yeah, so yeah, the annual sort of pilgrimage

to Northern Finland, to Ivalo,

this time with Hancock too.

They were our hosts for the Auto Express

and tyre tests, winter and all season test.

And it's, it takes you a little while to get in the groove.

And it's not like you have your circuit,

I know it from last time,

but you have to learn it again, how the car moves.

It's like, it's getting the car to flow,

so you can drive all the tyres to the limit,

see what the differences are,

which is always fantastic fun.

But unlike learning a wet circuit or a dry circuit anywhere,

you make a small mistake and you're on the radio,

because snow grabs you.

Yeah, yeah.

If you're not gone too much speed,

straight on into a snow bank,

which leaves a perfect impression of the car,

when you're towed out and you see the number plate

and everything, it's just that you think,

I'm gonna get away with it.

And then it just touches the snow bank

and you're tugged into a snow,

another pudder of snow on the radio.

But it's, I find it fascinating.

I mean, we don't get real snow here,

but you know, you've gotta have consistent.

When you're doing that, I've always thought,

because obviously, Summertime test

is very controlled conditions.

How much do you have to adapt?

Because obviously the course will be constantly changing

as you're going out.

Do they sweep it and clean it,

or is it got such a good ice bed?

Well, you have to start in the right conditions.

So last year we went with Goodyear and it was too mild

and we were there from Sunday to,

we were flown back Saturday afternoon

and the conditions were so warm,

right into the last minute,

because you can't start testing

and then the conditions change,

because then you also ruin the circuit

and you have to stop your test.

So you have to ask to be cold enough

and we started testing in the dark,

six o'clock on Saturday morning

with the flood in the afternoon.

So that's pretty crucial.

But what they do is there's a truck

or I think it's a Porsche Cayenne at Hankook, at Evlo,

that goes out and it carries sort of,

I don't know what you call it, make like a flail.

It's like a massive metal grid that drags behind

and there's a load of tires as well, rolling around.

So every time you come to it, it's a pristine circuit.

So you do your installation lap,

beep, set the lap timer and then you have three laps.

I see you do the lap times as well.

Yeah, wow.

So you set the, we set three lap times,

because generally the first one,

you're just finding out where the limit is

and then the last two,

you're trying to get the very best at them.

The finesse, yeah.

So you take the best two lap times.

Why Golf?

Just it's a very consistent car, I guess,

and quite easy to read.

It's interesting,

because we've always fought shy of going for Mark VIII Golf

because it's less,

it's less agile.

It's worse.

From a tire testing point of view,

the Mark VII has better steering,

more tactile steering and more natural agility.

And now as it happens,

the Mark VII that we were using developed slightly at fault,

which is probably partly to do with me bearing his legs.

So we had to switch to the Mark VIII

and it's instantly different.

The engine's more coarse,

the steering's heavier, less tactile.

The agility is slightly different.

It's more, it feels more synthetic at low speed,

less available at high speed.

But as soon as you've done your installation laps,

you are dialed into it

and you're just trying to get the best out of the tire

with the car that you've got.

So it doesn't make a huge difference,

but it's more pleasant to drive the Mark VII than a Mark VIII.

So were you the only journalist in that part of the world

that week that wasn't trying to go sideways?

You actually just drive around in normal

because you were up there the week before.

I was, yeah, trying to go sideways.

What a big jack.

Well, I saw pictures of use of, you know,

nicely balanced in the power of steering.

Nicely edited that video, just saying, yeah.

Are they all in there?

Those pins are gone, yeah.

The, once you've dialed in,

this is why it's so much fun.

Once you've dialed into the Golf,

there's a series of sweeps

and it's subtle lift of the throttle.

No brakes, subtle it and the car starts to move.

So it's lined up for the next one and for the next one.

It's great fun as well.

It's a real test when we had so many tyres this year.

So you end up doing like 16 sets in one batch

and you're really dialed into it.

So you put test tyres, control tyres in every now and again

to see how the circuit's evolving

and see if you're evolving as a driver.

But once you're dialed in,

you try to drive the best you can on every tyre.

I always think, right, this is the best tyre yet,

no matter what it is.

You don't really have to keep up with what it is.

All you have to do is keep a log.

So then you go back and check,

oh, that was the Pirelli or that's the Angkuk or whatever.

Yeah, so yeah, it is fascinating.

Was that winters and all season or just winter?

Winters and all season.

And the thing about the all season is

we don't sell many winters here.

But all season is on the way up.

Germany is definitely on the way up.

A lot of people are using them all year round.

And the difference between the tyres

is not that great in terms of lap time.

Some of the best all seasons

are almost as good as the winters.

The winters just have a bit more bite

and they recover a bit more quickly.

So if you're driving on snow,

you would definitely go for a winter.

But if it's only a very occasional snow,

an all season is a very good calm remise.

And are they getting better during the other seasons?

Well, this is the thing.

At the moment we test snow

and then we go to Conti Dron

to do cold, wet and cold dry.

So you get that aspect as well.

And I think we should add going in high summer as well.

Because if you keep them all year round,

all year round, what's the braking like

in high summer, in the wet and in summer.

So I think we need to add that to make the four seasons.

Yeah, because JLR, rain drivers and defenders

all come on these all seasons, don't they?

Unless SVs tend to come on a summer tire.

Slick basically.

Cops who are.

There's a slight distinction.

You can have a winter tire or an all season tire

that doesn't have the snow rating.

It's called three-peak snowflake.

It's on the sidewall and that means it's certified.

That's sort of minimum performance in snow conditions.

Okay.

So that's the difference.

So some mud and snows aren't actually rated for snow.

Okay.

Sounds weird, doesn't it?

Do you think it's still worth,

I mean, traditionally the best advice is to run

a summer tire in summer and then switch over to four winters.

Is that still the optimum

or can you get away with an all season?

I think, oddly enough, an all season would be best

for sort of late autumn to spring.

And then a summer tire is still better for summer.

Even the guys, the manufacturers of all season tires

who are sort of pushing the performance.

When you get to dry breaking in the summer,

the compounds are getting better and better,

but there's still not a match for a summer tire.

And also in terms of water clearing as well,

you get massive grooves on a summer tire,

which is much better for displacing water yet.

So wet breaking is always the crucial test for any tire

because that's when you need the maximum performance.

So yeah, I think adding that bit to the next round of tests

we do on winter tires would give the full picture

of its performance.

Cool.

Sue, what have you been up to,

apart from healing a broken ankle?

Healing, meetings, more meetings.

Yeah, not a huge amount to start the year,

very busy for us planning what you're gonna spend the budget

on for the rest of the year.

Just in and out of test cars, really.

Ranger of Restfree you were in.

And Ranger of Restfree, which is very useful

if you've got a five hour drive with a busted ankle,

which is quite a comfortable thing to drive

from helpful when it's your left ankle.

That was it, it's addition two,

which I think is they couldn't serve all of the addition one.

Here's another one.

So here's another one.

They just peeled the seat off.

Yeah, wrapped it blue.

Yeah, I mean over winter you just,

that big SUV thing that you can pile people in

and do big miles in.

And I'm in our M240i at the moment,

which we've been running for three or four months,

which you won't see appearing anywhere

because it's actually the wrong car.

BMW did a facelift of the two series

with new bumpers, screens, software.

Then they updated the 240i powertrain with this mild hybrid.

But unfortunately the car they sent us

didn't have the engine upgrade, so that's going back.

Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Is it any good though?

It's weird, because when it first came out of the M240,

it was really kind of, it sort of sits in its own class.

There's nothing really competing with it.

It's a four wheel drive, isn't it?

Yeah, it's a sex drive, but it doesn't feel four wheel drive.

It's still, the original had that nice balance.

This feels a little bit more sort of vanilla.

It could be front wheel drive, could be rear wheel drive,

could be four wheel drive.

It's not as, it hasn't got that sort of character

that the original car we had.

Whether that's the effect of the original car

was so impressive when we first drove it

and sort of three or four years later,

you've kind of got a bit used to it.

But it doesn't feel like a six cylinder BMW.

Really, just it feels, if you said it was a 230i

with a four cylinder, oh yeah, so that feels about it.

Doesn't have, I don't know, it doesn't have

that sort of personality that makes it an M240i.

Just feels like a two series coupe.

Which is it?

With a bit of power.

With a bit of power that,

and the gearbox is constantly changing down almost

to remind you, I've got some pay, do you want to use it?

It's like, well, no, not really, because I'm on the M11.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And when you do want to use it, it feels, it's quick

and it's got, okay, steering as most modern cars,

really good damping, even in sport mode,

you can use it on the awful roads around our office

up here in sport mode and good body control and stuff,

but it just, it feels more like an Audi

than the current Audi's do.

Really?

Yeah, I think an RS3's got more personality

about it and more capability than the M240,

which I don't think you would ever put it that way round.

It's one of those cars, you'd be really happy to have one,

but it doesn't really excite you,

which it should when you look at the spec.

Yeah, you're right, because Audi's kind of gone

the other way, hasn't it?

Because RS3 was always had a great engine,

but not so engaging chassis-wise,

and now that's come on quite a bit,

and it sounds like this is a bit more lifeless

and dead in your hands.

Yeah, capable, but not memorable.

Yes, yeah, yeah.

You don't get out of it and go, well, that was great.

Can't wait to do that on the way home again.

You get out of it and go, all right.

Yeah, it's such a shame because all BMW 6-cylinder engines

were always sweet, even if it was just the 2-liter

and all the aspirated 320i, it was always.

Loads of character, yeah.

Yeah, it's almost as if they've tuned this back

so it sounds like they're forcing the engines,

which BMW forcing the engines

aren't the most countable anymore, are they?

And it's almost as if they've gone back the other way.

It's got no sort of depth to its delivery or anything.

Okay, strange.

It's got like a synthesized noise.

Yeah, which I don't think helps

because you're listening out for a sixth of a note,

but you're getting a synthesized sound.

Yeah, just loads of bass, yeah.

Loads of, whoa, it's funny

because as you go through the revs,

it's so distinctive in how it changes its tone.

I think that's distract, that distracts you,

and that makes you think, what am I actually in again?

There must, tuners, electronic tuners,

must be able to play different tunes with engines

through the speakers.

This is a whole market of enthusiasts

who would like to dial things up and down.

I come in, you know, on a graphic equalizer

to get the noise that you want.

And it does that, and it's like every,

pretty much every modern car,

you're in it, manoeuvring it,

I had to shuffle cars around on the drive the other day,

and left got out of it and left it running,

went, should I have left that running?

It's silent on the outside.

Yeah, you can't hear a thing on the outside.

And if you leave early in the morning,

sort of send the message home,

sorry if I woke you up, they're like, didn't hear a thing.

What?

And it's that weird sort of,

let's just make it all synthesized,

so the driver hears everything,

but you get out when it's silent.

Had an E53 as well, which was quite similar.

It felt inside that, oh, okay.

You always worried they've taken the V8 out of it,

it's not a 63 anymore.

But from the inside, I think actually,

they've done quite a good job.

Six of the Drengers was the same as the BMW,

quite hard to make characterful.

You got out of it, and it's as if it was an EV.

They've just toned it so much.

A lot of those emissions and...

It's all emissions and noise risks, isn't it?

But what it does, it amplifies

how much it's being amplified inside the curve.

And actually, when you're in the car,

sometimes you want it to be one of the best USPs of EVs,

how quiet they are, and how relaxed that makes it.

But yeah, it's a weird car that BMW is.

It's not quite sure.

Being just actually drive the proper one

with the hybrid system.

On the noise subject,

I was recently in the new McCann GTS, the EV.

And it's got this new synthesized noise,

which is bespoke to the GTS and stuff.

And it does help you gauge your speed,

and when you go into corners,

it does an engine braking effect kind of thing.

But just for fun,

it's got a little passenger display in it.

And I ran a YouTube video of a GT3 RS through the speakers,

and it sounded amazing.

And I was like, what we want is this,

just like somebody engineer this

to sound like an RS inside.

Did Renault do that?

Yeah, the Clio, wasn't it?

The GTR and the cup car noises you could configure.

So you were driving on the car on electric GTS?

Yes.

With one of your GT3 RS videos.

Playing in the background, yeah.

It was great.

I've also been driving another Golf, actually,

the new Edition 50 GTI, which was,

I mean, yeah, we've been quite hard on the market.

Yeah.

How many guys have had it?

They've had, yeah, they've had,

well, GTI and R originally, then Mark 8.5, GTI and R.

But this is kind of like their last opportunity to say,

look, we can build a proper hot hatch,

and it's not just the Mark 7 that was great.

And they've gone to town on it with new suspension,

geometry, detail changes, like bush compounds

and things like that.

So it's a really kind of serious hot hatch.

And yeah, it's come good.

I really liked it.

I think it's probably the closest thing

I've driven to a Civic Type R in a long time,

at least something modern,

in terms of the feedback and the balance and everything.

It's really aggressive.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's got that connection that was missing

in normal GTI, normal R.

So is this, it's not called a Clubsport S,

but it is a Clubsport S?

Yeah, yeah, so it has rear seats.

Yeah, yeah.

So they benchmarked the Mark 7 Clubsport S

in the development of this.

So all the mods are kind of derived from that car.

But yeah, like you say, it's got rear seats,

which is handy when it's a hot hatch.

But that came second the car of the year,

didn't it, the Clubsport S?

Yes, 2016 was behind the sandwich

between a 911 R and a 570 S.

D, yeah, I think that's right, yeah.

Which is a good place for a hot hatch to be, isn't it?

Yeah, that really blew,

I caught everyone sort of unexpected,

didn't it, on that test?

Yeah, yeah.

Is it the same team, do you know?

Because that Clubsport S team

was kind of a bit of a skunk's works.

Yeah, they dusted some old engineers off.

Yeah, yeah, they've been locked away

for the whole of the market.

Now they're finally allowed to come out.

I'm not sure if the team is the same,

but I know they definitely drove the Clubsport S

quite a lot to kind of define the character of this.

But yeah, we were in Spain on this lovely little circuit,

kind of in the middle of nowhere,

and it's on semi-slick bridge stones,

and it started to rain,

like you just wouldn't believe it's torrential,

wipers over-speeding and,

but yeah, even in those conditions,

you could feel those definitely more focused to it

and a better balance, more pointy.

Still not the most characterful engine though,

that EA888, I don't think,

and it's still got DCTO in there,

it's not a manual, which is a shame.

I think that probably was a bit of a shame.

Yeah, I mean, it's nice Volkswagen are making it,

considering Type R's gone,

and Focus ST's gone as well, and i30N's.

Yeah, that's gone, the last sub-i-one.

And that engine, that's been around,

I mean, Noah looked at you doing that, didn't he?

The R, it's pretty remapped, Fox and Bangs.

They've said they're going to continue

developing that engine, haven't they?

They're going to keep it going.

I guess that's possibly cheaper than coming up with a new one,

but how long does it take?

I think it's on its fourth evolution

at the moment, officially.

But I had mixed messages, because I asked,

is this kind of the last petrol GTI?

And one of the engineers was like,

yeah, you can be pretty assured that it is.

And then somebody else said,

actually, we've made an Evo V version, essentially,

which is a missions complied,

and that might go in another GTI at some point.

So that's post-27, yes, isn't it?

Yeah, so that's in the works,

but yeah, it feels like there's been lots of last golf hours

and last GTIs, and they're just kind of stringing along.

Some band that's the final tour next year.

Yeah, it's the last edition for 2025,

and then they're being on 27th, that's good.

The Mark 8.75.

And that's quite pricey, though, isn't it?

It is pricey, yeah.

So it's 48 grand base price,

but for all the chassis mods

that make it different to a club sport,

you need to spend, I think, three and a half grand

on a four-in-a-port.

So it's a club sport, then you've got to buy bits.

It's a club sport with a bit more power as standards

and a few different trims and things,

but then to make it the full edition 50,

you need to spend three and a half grand,

which seems really mean.

This is bizarre, because that's not a huge uptick on 48 grand.

No, it's not.

Yeah, exactly, just said it as it is.

Surely, if you're buying that car, you want that.

I think 60% of customers are going for the Performance Pack.

I thought it'd be more than that, though,

considering the whole car is marketed around it.

It's not some sort of loophole,

is it, kind of, by having it being a pack rather than...

No, because it's saying you don't get any more engine power,

do you?

You don't, but the tires are stickier and maybe...

Oh, so yeah, because they're less efficient, so...

Yeah, that could be a...

So that'd be round WLTP, they won't have to re-homologate it.

Yes, yeah, for the outgoing for the Nürburgring

front drive record, as well, in it, with Benny Lochte this year.

So they've had one attempt, and it was a second and a bit off.

What, currently held to?

Type R, I'd say, Type R, yeah.

It's held up a little more than this one.

It has, but they were saying that that record

by the Honda is a little bit dubious.

No, they're saying you're right.

Yeah, of course they are, yeah, so...

Are you saying that Nürburgring...

That's why we reckon it's a bit...

All quite legit.

Yeah, yeah, because they're saying that they ran it

against like a clip they had of a Type R,

and the gearing, and the power delivery was all kind of

out of whack with the ring car, so...

So yeah, I'm sure the Volkswagen is totally standard, though.

Totally standard, yeah.

Always mostly, the front wheel drive, Nürburgring,

that record just makes you think,

oh, 26R, and the...

Because they had the sticker in the room,

and the...

It's the law when you see one, you had to walk up,

press the plexi window.

Is that, do you reckon, the best hot hatch you've driven?

Because I know it's kind of in the Evo Hall of Fame, is...

Yeah.

And our 26R, the hell?

Yeah, it's the one.

I remember it turned up outside my house for the car of the year,

and I did that, I went outside and went...

I think it really...

Come on, guys, it's all from Fiji 3RS,

Stripes, and all of that.

Geez, I took a long way to Wales, and that says something.

I did doggo, found some really good roads.

For me, it's Civic Type R, the latest one,

but I haven't driven an R26.

So, what is it, more analog, I guess,

and just a bit more raw?

I just...

I can still remember one particular bit of road,

and how it felt.

It just...

You just feel right there with it,

and it just feels like it'll do anything you ask it to.

It feels like a Tom Attenborough car, basically.

Yeah.

That bit of V-Lambani, that narrow bit of road.

Yeah, yeah.

So much, yeah.

Yeah, mine's the start of the Fistoneo Road.

I still remember what it felt like.

Very cool.

Hard-wired in there.

They had that great...

Oh, it still has it, because there's still that noise

that came through that induction noise,

and then the exhaust noise.

It's like Darth Vader's style to a whoosh.

Yeah, try it.

I wanted to go get over the tyre noise.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Toyota...

Toyota.

Yeah, they were pretty noisy.

I need to get one against the Golf

and the Honda, it sounds like.

It's like best front-wheel drive ever.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's...

I think that L26R is hard to beat, isn't it?

It just...

It didn't have, you know, certainly not got ridiculous power,

but the diff was just so well set up,

because so many at that point felt too jumpy when you got over it,

but you could just use all of the traction.

It was actually lighter than the standard car,

so they were able to make it slightly softer.

Yeah.

So rather than go and turn everything up hard...

Yeah, yeah, actually,

made it more backlit off a bit, more compliant,

more, you know, take bumps out with it.

And then Morgan and I drove that...

Why was it the white one?

Why down to Corsica?

It's going to say...

Yeah, it'll say much Corsica.

Yeah, you drove all the way to the, you know,

office to South of France in a day.

Wow.

Of course, there was no radio in it.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

Me and him got the overnight ferry to Corsica.

Well...

Two-day shooting, overnight ferry back,

drove all the way back.

And we're still friends.

Although he doesn't answer.

Well, actually, I spoke to Andy yesterday.

Yeah, exactly.

Said I was sick.

He said we should always meet up and we never do.

Yeah.

That is where you found a road sign that said werewolf, wasn't it?

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, a strange place.

The holes in the signs and...

Yeah, it was, it was really good.

Yeah, and they couldn't sell them all.

Yeah, well, not the car that Jeremy said

this is the best car ever, so...

And no one bought it.

And they probably sent it to us.

Did they send them back?

Or did they go to A, B, C?

I think they discounted the last sort of 20 or so, yeah.

But some went, I think, back to France as well.

No one wants them.

That seems like quite a common theme

with really special cars sometimes.

Like Project 8 didn't sell, didn't for Jag.

It's a bit extreme, isn't it?

Yeah, rear seats, that's always the problem.

Yeah, exactly.

Cool.

Well, should we call it then, have a bit of a break?

What have you got for us, John, today?

I haven't, John.

Well, I went to the scandal.

I kind of bought that biscuits for people.

Nice, lovely, lovely.

I'll let you pronounce that one.

What is it?

Doris.

Pretty easy.

Oh, yeah, Doris.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Have a munch on the Doris.

And yeah, whatever that one says, Stu, what does that say?

Paprika biscuits.

What have you bought, though?

They're not his.

Ginger.

Great.

Right, we're going to tuck into those and see you after the break.

Right, welcome back to the second half of the Evo podcast

and moving away from track spec hot hatches,

some depressing news from Porsche.

Or potentially exciting news.

Well, yeah, it depends which side of the...

Yeah.

Fencing set on.

Yeah.

Which side of the electric fence?

Well, yeah.

Don't straddle it.

Let's just do a bit of grass first.

I know you've...

You wrote a story this week.

Yeah, so Bloomberg have reported that Michael Light as his new CEO

started on January the 1st, replaced Oliver Blumer,

who was doing...

He was running Porsche and Volkswagen,

and there was lots of disgruntlement from investors

and shareholders and unions

and everything that he was doing.

Both of those jobs were too big for one person,

so he eventually relinquished one of the roles.

Michael Light is obviously ex McLaren.

Before that was CTO at Ferrari,

and then before that he was actually at Porsche

and he was responsible or part of the team for Cayenne.

Was that original Cayenne?

Yes, original Cayenne.

So he knows how to turn around.

He knows how to sort of take on tricky products

that customers may not think they want.

So he's gone back to Porsche.

Obviously, the car that's been talked about the most

and has had a lot of airtime is the electric Boxster

and Cayenne, the replacement for the four-cylinder cars.

Late last year, in their financial results,

they said that they will continue with high-end petrol engines

in Boxster Cayenne, so GT4, Boxer Spyder,

so the 46-cylinder engine.

It now transpires, and it looks like

they will be EV, they will be the top-end cars,

and they're going to have some kind of

internal combustion engine, middle-range cars

to replace the normal Boxster and the Boxster S.

What that looks like, most likely would be hybrid,

because when you look at emissions in Euro 7

and ZEV mandates and all of that stuff,

having two pure-ice engines in that car,

I don't think there's going to be an option for them.

So that project that's been going on,

I think you and Dickey both drove,

you drove Mission R?

I drove GT4 e-Performance, so the race car project.

You and Dickey both drove that, it was back in 22, 21?

So I drove it last year,

so I drove it literally before it went into the museum,

so it was the very last run-out.

Is that the one that whined like crazy?

Yeah, because originally they had a whole speaker system

ready to go, which they ran on the car.

So the three-quarter lights there,

they had speakers pointing out,

and they realised that you just could,

even with a huge number of watts,

you couldn't hear anything from it at all,

because it was just so loud.

Yes, that was when they drove Mission R,

it was so loud.

For the wrong reasons.

Yeah, not for the right reasons.

But that project has been in the ongoing

for a number of years.

It also being VW Group,

it underpins Audi C concept, the new TT,

and I think Cooper have asked what we're going to use it for,

Reval.

So it's not something they're just going to throw away,

because that's several billion euros worth of development,

but it has to be adapted,

because they've looked at the market,

and this isn't just a Porsche thing,

this is everyone looking at it in the market.

The EV market has gone from

big expensive SUV,

big expensive four-door GT cars

to actually the Chinese have come in and developed.

And to be fair Renault,

this is the car that people actually want as an electric car,

which is a small urban car,

a Renault 5 or whatever the Chinese brand is today

that's launched with a small urban car,

because there's too many to remember,

which has left all these big expensive electric cars,

but they were the pioneers,

because you had to build cars that

you could charge enough money for

to try and recoup some of the investment,

they didn't recoup any of it,

and also that's where the technology advancement is.

And you needed a big car to get enough batteries

to get the range that everybody thought you must have,

and therefore if you're building a big car,

lots of batteries, it's going to be more expensive.

And to get to market quickly,

the easiest thing to do is to take a battery under an SUV,

and they did Taycan and stuff,

but they've now, it would be a big sign

of if someone like Porsche rose backing up,

actually an electric sports car isn't for us,

and actually Matty Romats has said the same,

no one wants electric hypercars,

so we're not going to do them anymore.

But it's how you adapt a platform that was developed,

surely for EV, into something that can take,

I mean, they've got some very clever battery tech and design,

and there's talk of it being still behind the bulkhead,

so you get that sense of...

Well, I was going to say,

this was the thing about the G40 Performance,

is that it was, I initially thought,

because I took a camera chassis, obviously,

and I said, well, is it just a necessity

that you have to put the batteries there,

because the batteries are front and behind,

and I said, well, no, we didn't want all the batteries underneath

principally because of the driving position.

That was the weight balance as well,

keeps it more what you used to,

but we all know how your weight low-down

is a fundamentally pretty good thing,

but you were just sitting too high for a sports car.

So, ironically, they've ended up with something that,

probably, it's not going to be the work of the moment,

it can be.

It can be, it can be.

It can be.

Yeah, well, they got in their locker,

they've got the 3.6-litre hybrid from the 911,

is that too big?

I think, for packaging reasons,

and that's not a hybrid,

as we know, that is just an almost like a turbo torque fill.

Yeah, yeah, it's not electric.

And we know you can't put a 911 engine into a Boxster

until Andreas brought in a changes his mind

and says, you can't.

Yes, yes.

We all ask that question.

All options are on this.

It absolutely won't work.

Oh, look, we've done it.

Yeah, I think they want, for that,

you want a full,

you're going to need some form of electric range.

Yeah.

Which actually, T-Hybrid and the G-Test doesn't offer.

And a new family of engines as well,

that will fit, which will be,

it's easy with hindsight, so we told you so,

but funnily enough, the internal combustion engine isn't dead,

but more so now, it's really important

because it has to be as clean, as efficient as possible,

and work with hybrid systems

that are as efficient and as compact

and as lightweight as possible.

And they're still a camp,

all hybrid is useless, you just have an electric,

we're just driving around with two power trains.

But I think the evolution of hybrid power trains

has got to the point now where actually,

the miles are 70, 80, 90 miles of electric range.

And if that's a way to get people to understand

electric cars, it's actually better

than trying to force them into something.

It's a stepping stone, isn't it?

And it just also takes pressure of those

who haven't got anywhere to charge regularly

or aren't always at the same address

and therefore can't rely on charging infrastructure.

But it also gives you a different,

you start building cars that people want,

and that's what it comes down to as a car company.

You have to build cars that consumers want to buy.

From our perspective, it means if you can,

if having a hybrid system in them

means that the internal combustion engine

can fundamentally be more interesting

because it's having some of the emissions load taken off it.

As you've seen, we're well-turned stuff.

And that is a good thing from our perspective.

BMW this week have announced

that they are detuning the M5 V8.

Total output will stay the same,

but they're detuning it so it meets 2027 emission rigs.

So is that giving more to the electrified element

to boost the overall power?

Just like Formula One?

Right, yeah, yeah.

Okay, interesting.

And Hyundai, the day of recording this this morning,

they've announced that they are also,

well, Hyundai as a group,

you've got Hyundai, Kia, Genesis.

Interesting, they've all,

they're interested now that they've never said

they're all going to be purely electric.

Pretty sure there's been a press conference somewhere

where you've said it's electrified.

But they're developing new internal combustion engines,

V8 supercar.

Genesis seem to be doing everything.

I wouldn't be surprised if they look at Bugatti and go,

ah, just 16 cylinders.

Yeah, let's do 20.

So there is, it's,

also we have to think we're not,

the world doesn't revolve around us as the UK or Europe.

There is South America, India,

these huge markets are not geared up.

And probably never will be.

So, well, Kia have just launched the K4,

which is a C-segment,

which is a golf-focused,

petrol-manual hatchback.

It's coming to this launch in the UK.

And their rationale is,

well, there's still people that want to buy these cars.

So why would we not?

We will not disappear.

We will build cars that people want to buy.

And, you know, to Porsche,

people want to buy sport.

If you're buying a sports car,

you're buying it because you want a sports car.

And a sports car is coughing, is its engine.

And if you can have it as clean, as efficient as possible,

and there's a consumer for it,

there's no point building a load of cars at no one,

bonds that sit in, fields and...

I mean,

Boxster Cayman was never the as bigger seller,

I think is perhaps you might have thought.

So to then be kind of...

To make it less disorient.

I mean, it peaked quite early, didn't it,

Boxster in terms of its own Cayman,

sort of came along and gave it another push.

But actually, if you look at the numbers,

they've been on the decline for a long time,

which makes a sense of seven, eight years ago,

when they have to make these decisions, if not more.

Well, it's on the decline.

EV is going to be the way because of legislation coming.

So this makes sense.

And yeah, I think we've mentioned it a couple of times

in podcasts and people have written about it

online and in the mag.

Who would want to run a car company?

Because you're having to make decisions.

So far out.

When the legislation is just changing constantly.

And then you've got people who just throwing in legislation

so it gets them a headline.

Yeah, yeah.

They don't care.

They're not going to be around to actually see it through.

Yeah, and they're like, I've spent four billion on creating an EV.

I think, well, you've been up in Arduplog with Jaguar.

I have a feeling, I think it's about five billion.

Oh, really?

Jaguar has invested in electrifying itself.

So of course that takes into account,

they've had to redo all the factories.

You've got to come up with a whole new platform,

powertrain, just recruitment.

You're different engineers.

You've got to have software engineers.

Must be just be able to name their price.

And that investment, everyone is having to make that level of investment

while at the same time still running a car business.

You've got a gap.

You've got, well, we've got these old cars that people are being told

they're not allowed to buy, but they are allowed to buy

because the messaging is really poor.

And at the same time, you're in the wrong side.

You've got to then develop a completely different powertrain

that needs a different factory, different suppliers,

different workforce, different marketing strategy,

whole kind of thing.

And it's, yeah, it's, who'd want a wrong one?

So good luck to Michael.

I do wonder whether, because obviously Alpine A110

comes production ends this year.

I'm sure we'll take a moment for that.

They've said the replacement will be EV,

but thankfully they've also said,

well, we're working on a hybrid as well.

The CEO of Alpine used to work for Michael Lighters at Ferrari.

So I suspect that they've had a conversation.

What do you do?

What do we do?

So that would be fascinating to watch how that pans out as well.

I think Jaguar is kind of full steam ahead with EV at the moment

by the looks of it.

Because, yeah, I was in Sweden driving the new GT prototype.

And obviously, I mean, like you're saying,

it takes so long to develop these cars.

I think they started around COVID time.

Yes, it's literally two days before COVID or something.

Right, get going now.

Let's do this, yeah.

And it's a totally bespoke platform.

And they're going full steam ahead on this kind of crazy

proportions for this new GT.

And I don't think, I mean, speaking to the engineers,

there's no possibility of making that a hybrid

or compatible with an ICE engine.

Yeah, there's no, because I did a ride before Christmas

before you went to drive.

And same questions, yeah, but you can put an engine in it

because it's massive.

Yeah, it's massive, but it's very low, isn't it?

So it's like, where would the engine...

So there's no...

In the GT, I don't think there's any room at all.

Where are the masses then?

So we've got 120 kilowatt-hour battery,

which weighs 700 kilos.

So as much as an S1 Elise, just in the floor.

Those are on the podcast, my face is shocked.

But then somehow they found two tons of car to add on to that.

So it's 2.7 plus tons, which for like a totally bespoke

brand new EV seems crazy.

Very high.

Because Taycan is 2.2 tons,

and that's obviously like a generation old now.

So yeah, I mean...

So it's all under the floor?

It's all under the floor,

but to fix the kind of driving position issue,

they've split it in the middle.

So kind of your hit point is in a gap in the battery.

So you sit quite low and quite far back.

But yeah, I mean, looking underneath the car,

it's so tightly packaged with like crash structures

and motors and control boxes and things

that there's just no chance of putting...

Yeah, that big, what looks like a big bonnet

the way you could just put a V8...

Yeah, it's actually full of stuff.

So crash structures, it's where the motors are,

which of course have to be protected.

Battery is right under the floor,

as far forward and back as it can go, isn't it?

Yeah, and it's structural as well.

It's quite a thin battery.

So it's full length.

So that has to be protected,

not just from underneath, but from front and rear.

Is it a four-wheel drive?

It's a four-wheel drive with two motors at the back

and one at the front,

which is through an open differential.

How does it drive?

It drives very well actually, yeah.

So I kind of went in thinking

that it might be a bit of a Taycan rival,

kind of a sports saloon-ish kind of thing,

1,000 horsepower torque vectoring,

all that kind of stuff.

But I came away thinking it was more like a Bentley,

I think, or like a miniaturized Rolls Royce Spectre in a way.

Yeah.

So it's very kind of relaxed and comfortable

and Matt Becker,

who's kind of behind all the engineering of the car

and setting it up,

he was saying that he drove a lot of older Jags

before starting the project

and one of his favourites...

That explains the weight then.

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

One of his favourites was the XJC V12.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he was like, structurally it was terrible,

it had terrible steering,

not his words, but...

Exactly, yeah.

What did he get from it?

But I think his main thing was that

it was very relaxed in its ride

and it had a really nice fluidity to it

and it was kind of moderately engaging

without being an outright sports car.

And I can sort of feel the DNA of that

in this new car.

So are we going to see a broad speed version

of the Devils here?

Yeah, that'd be cool.

How big would that be?

Yeah, you have to make it bubble up.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, this one's 5.2 metres long,

so really big cars.

What?

Yeah, yeah.

And it's four doors,

but the rear doors are extremely narrow.

I mean, I didn't jump in the back

because it was just full of prototype stuff and gubbins.

So it's like the Clubman, the Mini Clubman.

It is, but it's not a suicide door.

It's just a really small, normal door,

which is...

Yeah, that didn't really...

Tricky for a luxury car.

Is it actually a small door

or does it just look like a small door?

I think it is a small door.

Yeah, because you open the aperture

and it just looks wrong.

The perception of it.

Depends how far away from the car you want it to be.

So it's a massive car and you go,

oh, that's a tiny bit,

actually walking through it.

That's as big as a smart car.

Exactly, yeah.

Yeah.

But yeah, what's interesting

because as well as the comfort aspect,

it's still got a thousand horsepower

and torque vectoring and things like I said.

So we were on a little handling circuit

at their winter testing facility

and there was one car that we drove

which didn't have any stability control on it

and that was more to see what the car's like

when you explore the limits.

And it is quite amazing

what the torque vectoring can do

in terms of hiding the mass

but also stabilizing the car.

Like you can really chuck it around

and not only does it help you turn in,

it also softens your inputs

if you're too aggressive.

So you can get into a really nice flow with it

and it does like to slide as well

which is not especially relevant for a 2.7.

But that shows agility.

Yeah, I mean there's an underlying playfulness there

which was quite good fun.

But they've gone deliberately quite,

make sure it's not a Taycan.

Yeah.

It has got active anti-roll bars.

But it's not, when we did the ride

it was only around Gaiden

but the test track is sort of...

Oh, it's pretty lumpy.

Pretty lumpy, yeah.

I think Matt took the new CEO around there

to try and show him that he needs a new test centre.

Yeah.

But it does give it,

that gives it that pliancy

and that's kind of what you want.

We all think, oh, I want a fast car.

Because you just spend your time

driving around potholes in perfection.

And is that off...

Now you've driven it and they've said

they all went and drove all the old Jags

out of the Jaguar Classic

and they also went towards more to the softer

70 cars.

But even that's got a thousand horsepower

and all this tech.

Is there still a sense of actually

they still wanted to build a performance car

or have they been quite sort of controlled

or no, that's the remit.

It feels quite defined.

It doesn't feel like...

Doesn't suddenly turn into a sports car

with different drive modes.

No.

It feels quite...

Yeah.

There are three modes.

There's like a snow and ice mode

which was quite handy out there.

There's a comfort mode and a dynamic.

But in all the modes,

it still feels like quite...

quite a big, soft,

not necessarily lazy,

but it likes to move on its springs

and it's not super locked down,

like Taycan is super responsive.

So it does feel like they're kind of stuck

to that brief.

And I was thinking, I was like,

the character of all Jags is

defined a lot by the engines as well.

And I was wondering if it would just feel like

another EV.

But I think if you do

focus on how it kind of behaves,

there is a DNA of an older

kind of Jag in there,

in how it's quite fluid and still dynamic,

but not super locked down

and like Porsche-like, for instance.

So is the character all in the dynamics?

Is there anything coming through the car

in terms of feedback?

There was nothing coming through this car.

I think they are working on a sound for it.

But I think that's the tricky thing,

because, I mean,

most buyers, obviously, you will appreciate

the dynamics of the car,

but the immediate impression is

obviously the engine a lot of the time.

And when you're trying to make a car

the same character as those older cars,

it's harder to identify the dynamics,

I think, immediately.

If somebody hadn't experienced a Jag before,

they'd jump in and say,

oh, this is just quite comfortable

and quite quiet and wouldn't really

pick out the DNA, I think.

But the 12C from the mid-70s

had a V12, which is a pretty whispering...

Yeah, I guess there's that aspect as well.

So that's very evil, I think.

I think they're doing a lot on the interior.

Yeah, I know they're doing a lot on the interior,

but I can't tell you what they're doing on the interior.

You probably know more than me, not saying it.

I think that's how you get round it, isn't it?

You don't have an engine to bring the character,

so the ambience and where you're sat

is going to tell you what you're in

and give you that sense of occasion

and feeling of being in something special.

But of course, when it's something like an interior

that is a design-led thing,

that's also open to interpretation

of what you might like from an interior design

to what you might like.

So some will be, wow, I feel really special in this.

I was going, I feel really underwhelmed.

Yeah, exactly.

It's a tricky line to try and get right,

but I think that's the thing is,

well, there is no sound.

It has to be silent,

so if you have to make sure when you're in it,

you could only ever be in a Jagd and nothing else,

which is the Rolls-Royce way of doing stuff.

You could only be in a Rolls-Royce.

But there are cars that we all agree

that's a really stylish interior,

something like the LFA, the very bespoke craftsmanship,

and I think that's probably where they have to go.

Or still the S1 Elise.

You can only ever be in a S1 Elise.

Because you've got backache.

Yeah.

But yeah, on the powertrain side as well,

they have tried to make it feel progressive

and give it a sense of building power

as the speed comes in.

So it's not got that instant,

wow, this is things like a rocket ship kind of feeling.

Tesla ludicrous.

Yeah, because you do that once or twice,

and then you just think,

I don't really want to do that again.

I'll be quite ill.

All your passengers, yeah.

The passengers are already.

Well, Porsche learned that over the course of the Taycan.

I remember going on the launch of Taycan Turdo S,

which was the first one,

and it was very sort of...

Very sensitive.

Yeah.

Pretty digit.

Yeah, it's kind of,

oh, we've got all this instant talk,

so let's share if you've got all this instant sight.

Well, no, because halfway around the corner,

I don't want that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I want the progression in there.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And everyone you drove sort of after that,

you sort of got better and better.

Yeah, if you just sort of, still there,

but just kind of...

Is it going to have a virtual gear shift?

I don't believe so, no.

I think it's, yeah,

it's kind of all about that consistent feel of,

it does what you ask of it

and doesn't do anything different every time in a way.

And it's not...

Again, they've tried to make it engaging

in terms of the handling,

but not so much in terms of, like,

feeling feedback and sounds and things,

like an Onig 5N or something.

Yeah, it's more of like a relaxed GT.

I just hope they can sell it,

because it's 120 grand.

Yeah, it's quite punchy.

I mean, it's 120 buying, isn't it?

And they're expecting average to be 140.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's very punchy.

But it does look like,

it will look like nothing else on the road.

That's going to be the thing.

Yeah, you go for that.

It's a statement car.

Yeah, and despite all the tantrums,

when it was revealed

or when they sort of said,

this is what we're doing,

I think when people see it

and there's going to be enough of a lag,

actually, this is a statement,

this is what I want to be seeing

and it's going to be cool to be in that car.

Yeah.

And if you're still ranting about it,

you're like a bloke shouting at the clouds.

Yeah.

And you're not probably in the customs.

No, I mean, yeah,

every X-type customer says,

that's not a real Jag.

They were never in the market for anyone.

Yeah, they've got an X-type that's 20 years old.

And I think that's the thing is that

a real Jag should be, yeah.

Do you think some guy called Jerry

has got his name down for one?

That's a sore subject.

Did that come up at all?

Yeah, they're very tight-lipped and PR-ish

when it comes to Jerry.

Well, when the passenger ride

and went to see the car

was two days off,

was the Tuesday after Jerry left on the Friday?

So it shows that no one person is bigger than the company.

So I didn't can this event.

Yeah, yeah.

That I went on with a few others.

Yeah, I think he might have one, I don't know.

Well, it might be one of these cars

that actually in a few years time everybody goes,

that was a pretty smart move.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You've got to wait and see, haven't you?

Yeah.

They are making an SUV as well,

which is kind of going to be their volume-ish sale.

I mean, they've moved to a more high-end bracket

than they used to anyway,

but the GT is kind of the halo product

and everything else.

It's below, isn't it?

But they've got that rough.

As you mentioned until what Andreas Prülinger says,

you can have an R11 engine in a Cayman.

Yeah.

Jaguar has the same problem is

you can't compete with Range Rover.

Yeah.

Until we need you to.

And then, actually, we can't get the Range Rover electric

down to the weight we need it to be,

so we'll fight with the drag.

But that's the one that worries me

is because that's in that volume space

and that's where we've seen Audi, BMW, Mercedes,

all those other big electric premium SUVs

suffer slightly and you've bought one

and you haven't gone back.

And that's the one that worries me

and I think that's the one that counts the most,

isn't it, for them?

It's where the cash is going to come from.

And that's possibly one where they might need

to spend some money, more money on that platform

to try and do a Porsche.

Do a Porsche and reverse engineer a hybrid system.

What is the body material?

It's aluminium, mostly.

A really lightweight Gaiden aluminium.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, which never really came through

on the other products, didn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

But it's, I did ask about potentially

converting it to ice or hybrid.

And they said it was in theory possible,

but the whole platform would be 90% new.

So it's pretty much impossible,

without making something else.

10% possible.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, if we really had to.

I think for the GT it's too far down the line.

But the SUV, I think they might have to look at it.

I think it's that or you don't do it

because you just look at the numbers.

A lot of Porsche's woes and everyone else's

is because there's two issues.

China's had a big downturn in the luxury market.

So they're just buying localised product.

And their localised product is so much better

than anything the Europeans are pumping out at the moment.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then you've got tariffs on the other side from the US,

which is hitting everything.

So you've got to build the cars that you can sell.

But why would you make another SUV

when there's somebody else in the company making an SUV?

Why wouldn't you just reuse that platform?

I guess it's probably going to sit

a fair bit below a Range Rover.

Sit below a Range Rover.

It'd be between Range Rover Sport and Range Rover.

Yeah.

But then...

You must be doing the whole range of, you know,

the smaller you vote size vehicles as well.

I can't...

I think they might do in the future,

but at the moment, it's more of a premium thing

that they're going for.

So there's no plans to make like a new XE,

I don't think, or something smaller of that kind of size.

Again, I said, what can you sell it for?

Yeah.

They're not doing that much to do.

And they've tried volume.

It didn't work.

They've had to do this.

But there's...

You could wind it back 20 years to your point of,

well, when everyone was buying SUVs,

why did they not just put Jaguar bodies on

and take out some of the four-wheel drive capability

and have...

Well, they did it with...

The only one they did it with were F-Pace and Velar, wasn't it?

Was the only shared one.

But I think this is very much...

G-Pace as well.

Yes.

I was just...

What was left in the bin, wasn't it?

I think it was.

Yeah.

An old platform.

Someone still had a Ford Focus company car.

I was like, oh, can we just borrow that a minute?

Is there any good news in the industry at the moment?

I mean, Lambo is still going ahead.

Lambo is still going ahead.

There's...

But you didn't even like the Tamraria, did you?

Well, I thought the engine could have been more characterful.

Yeah.

That was the main thing.

That was the kicker.

Like I said in the last podcast,

and in the story that we printed,

they had the formula already worked out with the Revuelta,

why they didn't make it in that dress, but it'd be 10.

Yeah.

It revs to 10,000 RPM.

Everybody comes back.

You tell us.

And that...

And it didn't have to have 9,000 horse power either.

Yeah.

Or rev to 10,000.

But, you know, we'll give it another go.

I'm sure it'll evolve as well.

Well, they will do, don't they?

Yeah.

Huracan took a while to get it going.

They had a Gallardo.

Yeah.

They had terrible brakes, didn't it?

Yes, yeah.

And seats.

So, yeah.

It felt like it took them the full spectrum of Gallardo and Huracan,

really, to kind of get their heads around it.

To get to the technical.

And yeah, there we go.

We've done it.

Right.

Production.

But wasn't it good, the technical?

Yeah.

That was great.

That's the one we'll look back on in years to come.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

One everyone ignored.

Oh, actually.

Just like this there.

R26R, isn't it?

Yeah.

I mean, there is some...

I mean, Mercedes...

There is some good news, because Mercedes has done,

launched a new S-Class,

which you've got a new flat-plane crank V8,

because that's what you need in a limo.

That's got to be the first limo-style car with a flat-plane V8.

Yeah.

It's not coming to the UK in that car,

but it will come to the UK in half a car.

In something else.

C-class shape, maybe.

Or slightly larger.

Or GT and CLE, won't it?

We'll have that.

But it's...

How big an engine is it?

No, I don't know.

It's probably four litres.

It'd be a four-litre.

Yeah.

Well, I'm not there to have my luxury sling

that sounds like a four-cylinder, please.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're not the biggest fan of flat-plane engines.

No, hence the Caprice.

Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, to do...

To do that,

obviously, BMW have kept the M5 engine alive.

VW seemed to be, as you mentioned earlier,

evolving that engine.

High-on-light group is still developing

internal combustion engines

and looking at how they can

go into sectors that others have left.

Whether it's that sort of entry point hatchback

to whatever genesis they're doing

with V8s and shooting brakes

and supercars and hypercars.

Toyota as well.

And then Toyota, which seems to just

work on its own.

Jessica, what do you fancy doing?

Should we build a new GT car?

So, Sam's mentioned it, hasn't he?

He went out to see the Toyota.

So, that's got a new V8,

which is two of the new four-cylinder engines

and they're doing...

And then they're also doing a smaller engine

for next-generation Yaris as well.

Yeah, and Corolla, I think.

And the Corolla's going in.

And just keep going on.

Yeah.

And it's that thing, oh, why are you doing it?

Because people want to buy it.

And you do wonder whether there's

board members at other car companies

like Ford or Volkswagen.

Why is everyone really excited about Toyota?

Why don't they want to buy our

three-bodied Volkswagen ID.4?

That's quite an easy question to answer.

Why wouldn't you want to buy it?

It's going as well as the Mustang.

What do people keep talking about this

Kai-O2 V8?

It's just...

Because it's really good.

You see what the...

And again, it comes down to looking at,

I think, as a global proposition,

what are you doing as a car company?

Where do you sell and what cars do you need?

How do we make them then work in all the markets we're in?

Because we haven't had...

We don't get Corolla GR because of market size

and you've got competition

and then you've got to modulate it for the UK and Europe

and is the market big enough?

No, but now everyone's left.

They probably think it's going to be built in Derbyshire anyway,

isn't it?

They might as well send it here as well.

And it's the same as the...

The Kai-O K4 is not a car on our radar,

but the reason they've done it is because,

well, you can't buy Focus anymore.

But there's several hundred thousand people with Focus

who will want a small petrol engine.

A replacement for you.

It is quite clever, though, isn't it?

Because I remember four or five years ago,

I was sat thinking, what is Toyota doing?

Because they just bought out BZ4X,

which was an EV, and their own EV.

Sounded like a child of Elon Musk.

Yes, it does, yes.

And it was like way off the pace with range and everything.

And I was just thinking, they're miles behind.

But you can see now that they weren't hedging their bets on EV.

And now it's paying them back in a way that...

They've always been quite vocal on

there isn't one powertrain solution.

So hydrogen, eternal combustion engine,

an EV and hybrid, and all they...

The Prius sort of set everyone on that path, didn't they?

Regardless of what you think of them.

And I think probably everyone on the planet

has probably been in the backseat of a Prius

and regretted it.

But yeah, they're very much...

Well, it's what can we sell?

What does the consumer want rather than...

Well, the legislators are telling us this,

but that's not going to help us sell cars.

And we actually...

And people who run car companies do know better

than someone who's sat in Whitehall

or in Brussels or in Berlin or whatever.

Because as you said, they're just there for making a headline.

I mean, it does seem like there's a bit of a...

The tide is turning in terms of the industries.

We're like, crap.

If we don't do something about this,

we're going to be laying people off shutting factories.

We're going to go obsolete.

Yeah.

Stalantis have done the same with Alfa Romeo,

particularly Judea and Stelvio's been made.

And the quadropholios and stuff.

I mean, that is quite...

Oh, we do like it.

Wow.

I wouldn't mind it sticking around.

It's a good car.

Yeah.

Another excuse to get a long-term run, both.

But it's...

That's what you have to...

Otherwise, you just disappear.

That's what happens, isn't it?

You don't build the cars.

I think Dicky mentioned the other day,

Ferrari are looking at a 12-cylinder...

oval-cylinder engine.

I think he said some details.

Which is...

And they've always said they build V12s

for as long as they're allowed.

Driving Jaguar's GT and is the Porsche Boxster EV dead? With Henry Catchpole | Episode 39

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