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Dutch Silverstein Tells Us How It Is
Dutch Silverstein Tells Us How It Is
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About this episode
Dutch Silverstein shares his insights on the automotive repair industry, emphasizing the shift from relationship-based to transactional business models. He discusses the importance of work ethic, mentorship, and the sacrifices necessary for success in the field. Dutch reflects on his experiences as a shop owner and the challenges faced by technicians today, advocating for a return to high standards and customer service. His daughter, Anna, adds a personal touch, sharing her perspective on growing up in the industry and the values instilled by her father.
Cars:
Toyota Camry
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In this episode, Jeff Compton is joined by Dutch Silverstein and his daughter Ana. Dutch brings up the differences of a transaction-based vs relationship-based business model, urging shop owners to pursue what aligns with their personal values and long-term goals. The conversation highlights the need for self-reflection and sacrifice when considering shop ownership, as well as the dangers of lowering standards in the industry.
Timestamps:
00:00 Celebrating Your Return
03:50 Family-Owned Automotive Safe Haven
07:57 Car Repair Frustrations Persist
11:43 Mechanic Reputation and Trust
14:40 Mechanic's Business Growth Journey
16:52 Personal Betrayal in Safe Space
20:25 "Coaching Costs and Industry Influence"
25:51 "Pursuing Integrity Every Day"
28:49 "Sacrifice for Future Success"
31:10 "Boost Productivity, Build Wealth"
35:13 Work Ethic and Presence
37:00 "Training Wheels Off Moment"
42:23 "Self-Reflection for Business Growth"
43:38 Understanding Business Metrics & Decisions
46:31 Avoiding Pitfalls in Business Growth
50:25 "Unpaid Work Clarification"
53:21 Empowering Technicians for Success
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Filter:
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Part
transmission
"...before my tech can get back to putting that replacement transmission that finally arrived in."
The transmission is what helps your car change gears and move. It's an important part that connects the engine to the wheels, making sure the car can drive smoothly.
A transmission is a crucial component in a vehicle that transfers power from the engine to the wheels, allowing the car to move. It can be either automatic or manual, and it plays a key role in the vehicle's performance and efficiency.
Car
Toyota Camry
"she had a Camry and she took people home back and forth,"
The Toyota Camry is a type of car that is very popular because it's dependable and easy to drive. Many people choose it for everyday use, like taking friends or family around town.
The Toyota Camry is a midsize sedan known for its reliability, comfort, and fuel efficiency. It has been one of the best-selling cars in the United States for decades, making it a popular choice for families and commuters alike.
Term
tire balancer
"...is it necessary to have the latest and greatest tire balancer no no no..."
A tire balancer is a tool that makes sure your car's tires spin smoothly. If they're not balanced, you might feel shaking when you drive, and your tires can wear out faster.
A tire balancer is a machine used to ensure that a tire and wheel assembly rotates evenly. Proper balancing helps prevent vibrations, uneven tire wear, and improves vehicle handling.
Term
road force balancing
"...we've been balancing tires with long before road force and balancing them..."
Road force balancing is a special way to balance tires that checks how they will perform while driving. It helps make sure your ride is smooth and comfortable.
Road force balancing is a more advanced method of tire balancing that simulates the forces a tire experiences while driving. It helps identify issues that standard balancing might miss, leading to a smoother ride.
Term
road force balancer
"...long before there was a road force balancer"
A road force balancer is a tool that helps make sure your car's tires are balanced correctly. This is important for a smooth ride and better handling of the car.
A road force balancer is a specialized machine used to measure and correct tire balance by simulating the forces that tires experience while driving. It helps ensure that tires are properly balanced, which can improve ride quality and handling.
Term
alignment
"...you and I know that an 18 minute alignment is not really what you're doing is you're setting the toe and you're letting it go..."
Alignment is when a mechanic adjusts the angles of the wheels so they are straight and not tilted. This helps the car drive better and makes the tires last longer.
An alignment refers to the adjustment of a vehicle's suspension system, ensuring that the wheels are set to the correct angle relative to each other and the road. Proper alignment improves handling, tire wear, and overall vehicle performance.
Term
toe
"...you're setting the toe and you're letting it go..."
Toe is how much the front of the wheels are turned in or out compared to the middle of the car. Getting this right helps the car drive straight and keeps the tires from wearing out too fast.
Toe refers to the angle of the wheels in relation to the centerline of the vehicle. If the front of the wheels points inward, it's called 'toe-in'; if they point outward, it's 'toe-out'. Proper toe settings are crucial for tire wear and handling.
Celebrating Your Return
Family-Owned Automotive Safe Haven
Car Repair Frustrations Persist
Mechanic Reputation and Trust
Mechanic's Business Growth Journey
Personal Betrayal in Safe Space
"Coaching Costs and Industry Influence"
"Pursuing Integrity Every Day"
"Sacrifice for Future Success"
"Boost Productivity, Build Wealth"
Work Ethic and Presence
"Training Wheels Off Moment"
"Self-Reflection for Business Growth"
Understanding Business Metrics & Decisions
Avoiding Pitfalls in Business Growth
"Unpaid Work Clarification"
Empowering Technicians for Success
Select text to request an explanation
Think your shop is good?
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Hey, I'm Jeff with the Jada Mechanic Podcast,
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If you're in this business and you're a technician,
never in 25 or 30 years, like I said, or more,
has there ever been a more golden opportunity
for you to ton it if you had a work ethic?
Yes.
If you have the ability to understand
the measure of how badly you want something
is what it is you're willing to give up to get it,
and if you understand that you're sacrificing today
for the blessings of tomorrow,
you can write your own damn ticket
by doing that which others won't do.
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen,
to another exciting episode of the Jada Mechanic Podcast.
So we're still at Asta 2025, and we're having a great time,
and this is kind of a special Asta for me
because somebody that I have a ton of respect for,
and it's a former guest,
but I've had a ton of respect for for a long time now.
I can remember seeing this man's name
and always being like, he's a pretty sharp individual.
Sometimes he's a little abrasive.
Me?
But he is super smart.
If you recognize the voice, that's Mr. Dutch Silverstein.
So Dutch, how are you today?
Peachy for an old bastard, anyway.
And I'm sitting here with the beautiful lady
that you're seeing in the screen, is Anna.
Yes, hello, everyone.
That's Dutch's daughter, everybody.
I know, right?
Must be adopted.
Were you adopted at a young age?
That's what he tells me, but I think it's my mom.
Yeah, absolutely.
Dutch, I5.
Yeah.
Yeah, I5.
Very good.
So we had an absence from you for a couple years from here,
and I talked about how the first time I came
was when I was brought here by Lucas,
and I got a chance to meet you.
And you didn't know who I was at the time,
other than I just was like, I've seen your name forever
and the conversations you were in,
and I had a ton of respect for you.
And since then, you've become a very important person
to me, to be able to bounce ideas off
and get perspective from and everything else like that.
And that's why I just want to celebrate
you're the fact that you're back,
because this is an important event,
and you are an important person at this event.
I'm not about any of that.
Oh, that's 100% Dutch.
When you haven't been here,
the presence has definitely been noticed.
A lot of people ask,
and a lot of people and all that kind of stuff.
And it's not for me to divulge
or ask a ton about why you haven't,
but just to say thank you for being back.
Well, you can ask me anything you want.
I can't guarantee you're going to like to answer,
but I'll tell you exactly why I was gone
if that's what you wanted.
For sure.
This organization used to be known
as the Independent Garage Owners Association.
It was a small organization,
basically set up for shop owners here in North Carolina.
It's the IGONC.
And it was, for me, a place where I could go
to distance myself
from the volume-based transactional business model
that everyone is pushing for.
I believe in the relationship-based business model,
and I see the value in it.
I see how it makes for happier employees,
long-term customers.
You got to remember,
I owned my shop for 26 years.
Third generation.
I had people that came in
that were older and their kids
and now their grandchildren came in.
You get that by treating people
with a certain amount of respect
and welcoming them into the fold, as it were.
Welcome to my family.
I named my business A&M
because it was after Anna and Max, my son.
That's awesome.
Right?
Because everything you do in life is for your kids anyway
if you're married and you have kids.
And I wanted it to represent it.
And I wanted people who came in
and know that I wasn't a franchise.
I didn't answer to some corporate accountant.
Yes.
When you had a problem, if you did,
you talked to me because it was my shop.
So I always looked at this place
in a way as a safe haven
from what I perceived to be a really bad trend
in the automotive repair sphere.
And that is the transaction-volume-based
transactional business model.
It is, to me, what Olive Garden is to Italian food.
That's a great analogy.
If you've ever had really good Italian food,
either from New York City or in Boston's North End,
or you've been to Italy or any place where
it was in a small, typical family restaurant
where you were blown away
by really good Italian food.
And then you go to eat over at Olive Garden
and you're like, this kind of sucks.
I mean, it's not horrible, okay?
It's not horrible.
But at best, it's mediocre.
It's standardized.
You know what to expect.
Every time you go into one, right?
But it's not good.
No.
But when you think about it,
how many Olive Gardens are there?
Oh, brilliant.
A ton of them.
Right?
A ton of them.
Okay.
So they were able to, using that formula,
they were able to grow.
And yet, you've got the mom and pop
that may only have where the people
put their heart and soul in the business
and take care with every dish
and go shopping every morning
for the freshest ingredients
and import the ingredients from Italy.
And what do they got?
One, maybe two stores?
Yeah.
Well, why?
Because we've come to grow and appreciate
as a society mediocrity.
And we don't need, in my opinion,
as a business,
as a resource, a community resource,
to place usself in a position of mediocrity.
Right.
If all you're going to be focused on is sales,
you're going to have a problem.
Because the product you're going to produce
is going to be mediocre.
Let's look at it.
Let's call things the way they are.
I want you to think about
any of the big box automotive
repair shops that you can think of.
It doesn't matter what it is.
Yep.
Okay, everybody has them.
The ones that have hundreds
are, in fact, over 1,000 stores.
Now, ask yourself, does that place
that I'm thinking about,
does that represent the apex
of the automotive repair industry?
Not even close.
Not even close.
And yet, there are 1,000 of those stores.
Well, why does that occur?
Because that business is scalable.
Yes.
In order to be scalable,
what must you not have?
Superstars.
Because you can't scale a superstar.
Yeah.
You're going to find them.
You're going to put them to work.
You're going to treasure them
because they're going to carry their weight
and then some.
But you can't guarantee that every market
you're going to go in,
it was going to have a superstar
that you can lure away
if they're working from another place.
Yeah.
So what we have here is the difference
between what is known as competent
versus good.
Yeah.
When you go to a store,
a corporate store like that,
okay, one of those big box stores
that we're all thinking of,
what you're having is somebody
who's essentially,
they're performing a service
and they're competent at it.
They can get the job done.
But they're not good at it.
Is it completely different
between being good and being competent?
Well, that's kind of what we say
seems to be going more and more
is that if we start making compromises
on standards,
we lower the collective standard.
Yep.
Right?
And then it becomes the norm.
And then we're,
I think we're at a point now
where like everybody
that operates a car
is kind of fed up with where it is.
Right?
We have people in all facets
that are either,
they're going to a smaller shop
and the smaller shop is looking
too much at the price
and they're putting on
these terrible quality parts.
Right?
And then the car's coming back
and the trust is lost
or they're going to,
you know,
the car is under warranty
and the dealership says,
yeah, okay,
it's three weeks
before I can get you in there
for an appointment
and then you manage to get in there
and then they go,
that part's backward
or we're really so short staffed.
I got you in for the appointment now.
It's going to be three weeks
before my tech can get back
to putting that replacement
transmission that finally arrived in.
So you're without your vehicle
collectively,
like maybe six weeks,
you know,
and then the aftermarket side,
we,
that used to be never the norm.
We were turning around faster
all the time than the dealerships were
and now I see the outrage of people
with a car under warranty
and they are live it
because the car sometimes spends
the first three months,
six months,
collectively of the,
I just got a warranty for five years,
it might spend six months
of those five years
in the dealership part waiting
and they're just,
they're beside themselves
or so I rate.
So when we,
when we look at
all these collective standards
that have been reduced,
if anybody I feel
that's not part of the design
to reduce the expectations
so that people become conditioned
to a lower standard
just like Dutch is comparing it
from Olive Garden to,
you know,
a small family restaurant,
I think it's definitely designed
and it's sad to see
because somebody that like
Dutch
that's been doing this so,
so long,
he's seen it change.
I've,
I've been around long enough
to see it change
but he's seen it change from
maybe it's,
what is it,
glory day?
It was the heyday of automotive
to now
where we're so uncertain
about where we're headed.
So I mean,
you got to remember that,
that I started this
just like most of the guys.
I started this in the 70s, man.
Yeah.
Right, 1973,
1975,
I was working at a station
then went to work for Sears
as, you know,
in the small engine department
and graduated to line tech
and, you know,
I mean, this is,
so we saw things differently.
Yeah.
You never saw the degree
of what appears to be
deliberate indifference.
That's the only way that
a lack of caring
because they have you by
the short hairs.
What happened to customer service?
What happened to leaning on the manufacturer?
What happened to designing the products
that was going to last
more than 20 minutes?
Holding them accountable.
Yep.
And that's a problem.
That's a real problem
that needs to be solved,
but you're not going to solve it
without the participation
of people who own stock.
The only way it's going to change
is if that change is commanded
to happen by shareholders.
Enough people have to be
so sick of what's going on
that they show up at
shareholder meetings
and they have the money
due to the talking.
Yeah.
Not by the vehicles.
What was it like
to navigate this kind of,
you know,
because sometimes we talk about,
you know, females in the
automotive realm
from a consumer standpoint
are very uncomfortable.
Having somebody that's such
and has always been such
an expert for it,
did you feel very blessed to,
yeah?
I've never been asked that
question,
but it's interesting
because I'm faced with it
often, you know,
there's all these internet jokes
about the slimy mechanic
and there's, you know,
definitely a reputation
that if you're a girl,
you're going to get taken
advantage of.
And I've only seen that
more and more as I've gotten
older and have needed
to maintain my own car
and all that good stuff.
And I just, you know,
obviously with my dad
had never found that to be the case
and he would go out of his way
to take pictures of,
you know,
oh, you need this replaced
and here's a picture
and do you want to see it?
You can walk,
you can look under the hood with me.
And so it's definitely
kind of like this duality between
a reputation for an industry
that has some bad actors
while being raised by
who I consider to be
the best actor.
One of the outstanding ones
and has been for a long time
and the reputation proceeds
himself, he's never acted
anyway other than
one of the most extraordinary
professionals within the industry.
Right?
And I know he doesn't like to hear
me blow his horn all the time
but it's absolutely true.
Like the legacy that Dutch
is left behind,
you know,
in terms of all the online
conversations and perspectives
that he's brought,
not that he's left behind
like he's done.
But you know what I mean?
That the example that he's set
for some others to come along
because of the way he's
always conducted himself
is I wish that the more had
caught on.
You know what I mean?
Because we wouldn't have
so many people then feeling
that the stereotype
that you described
was the norm, you know?
There was a funny episode.
I know you'll appreciate this.
She was being taught
when she was in grade school
by a substitute teacher
who said during class
was talking about the car.
It said that mechanics were thieves.
Yeah, my driver's ed teacher.
And said that mechanics were thieves
and that if you had a check engine
light on,
all you had to do
was insert a computer
into the USB port.
And that would tell you
what was wrong with the car.
Yes.
And my little girl stood up in
class, got red faced
and said,
first of all,
it's not a USB port.
It does assembly line data link connector.
It doesn't tell you
and she went off.
Right.
And I heard about it through the school
and I was, yep, she's good.
She ain't grounded, that's for sure.
Yeah, because people don't understand.
And now this individual was trying to
driver's ed teachers
trying to educate the young on this.
No, no, you don't try to pull
the wool over my daughter's eyes.
So Anna, do you have a lot of fond memories
of actually being at your dad's elbow,
watching him do some things
or did you kind of like
because I know you're not a tech,
but did you kind of like grow up
sometimes running around the shop?
I did.
Yeah, I remember the evolution.
He at one point had a very small
waiting room
and then eventually took over
some office space in his shop
and totally redid it.
And I remember his business growing.
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I don't really remember him
like necessarily being under the hood,
turning the wrench,
but I do remember him being
sort of an advisor to
both his employees
and to his customers, clients.
And, you know,
getting on the phone,
explaining what was wrong.
I remember very distinctly
him fixing a lot of issues
that other people created
by either trying to work on cars
themselves or, you know,
going to bad dealerships,
what have you.
So, yeah, I think I got a lot of
a lot of business acumen
and I have a lot of car acumen
for she worked for me for a summer.
Yeah, really?
Yeah, she worked for me in
as a CSR.
Okay.
As a service rep,
she wound up answering the phones,
obviously.
She took,
she had a
Camry and she took
people home back and forth,
you know, in the Camry
when she was doing that.
And then we tried to keep,
get her into bookkeeping
and that wasn't her saying.
Yeah, no.
The accountant sat me down
and was like,
you're not allowed
in this filing cabinet anymore.
You did this wrong.
So, that was the end of that.
I'm honestly amazed
when you say that,
the accountant,
because it's hard for me
to picture Dutch
ever passing that roll-off
to somebody else.
Do you know what I mean?
Well, you know,
you have to,
there's only so much
that you can do.
Right.
As long as
my attitude was,
look,
let me delegate
the task.
And then I can always
crush Jefferson
because I'm not worried
about you having
me financial statements.
I can read them.
I understand them.
I can dissect them.
I'm not worried about it.
So, I'm not going to worry
about somebody pulling
the wool over my eyes,
stealing from me
or doing any of that sort of stuff.
I'm not worried about it.
So, and the people
that I did this with,
I trusted.
Right.
And that gave me,
once that took that off
of my plate,
that gave me more time
to spend doing the things
I like to do.
You know,
working with customers.
So, this class,
working with customers,
this class that you brought
to ask for this year
and you taught,
can you tell us
a little bit about it?
Because I didn't have
the pleasure of being,
I couldn't be in it
this morning.
I was recording.
Otherwise I'd have been.
Basically, what I noticed was
once
the company getting back
to the original conversation,
I left in protest
because I saw
one of the individuals
who is an advocate for the,
an advocate for the transactional
business model
was asked to attend.
And I,
that to me was a betrayal.
Yeah.
I took it personally.
I really did.
And I guess I shouldn't have
in hindsight,
but I took it personally
and I'm like,
no, I know.
This is my quote,
unquote safe space.
This is my refuge.
This is where I go
to associated with people.
The whole industry is populated
with this cancer
that's permeating
every aspect or every part of it.
But there's one place,
one sacred place,
the IGONC,
that I can go
and not have to worry
about associating
with any of these slime bag,
slime ball,
use car salesman,
double speak.
Yes.
Idiots, right?
Okay.
Well, one of those guys
got invited here
and I'm like,
you people suck.
So I,
so I boycotted
and then as would happen,
I realized that there was,
I got over
being
angry and discouraged
and realized
that there was a golden opportunity
for techs here
to own their own shop
and to create the destiny
that they wanted.
Right?
We had talked about one in five,
one tech comes in,
five techs,
my age,
die, leave,
whatever.
God.
Okay.
That's going to build scarcity.
What happens to prices
when something is scarce?
We can put them up.
You can put them up.
Which means that now
with the right amount
of instruction
mentoring,
you can have somebody
who comes in
and 20 years later,
retires
with seven figures.
Yeah.
Now there are guys
in this business
that have been in it
for 35, 40 years
that don't have that kind of money.
That's right.
Okay.
Well,
here's a problem
and the problem is one
that Michael Gerber
really nailed in his book,
The E-Myth Revisited
and the E-Myth
is the entrepreneurial myth
and the entrepreneurial myth
is that
a practitioner
or a technician
in a technical business
understands
what it takes to run that business,
to operate that technical business.
Just because they can perform
the technical aspect of the business,
in their mind,
they're confident
that they can then
run that business.
Right.
And it's a completely different skill set.
Okay.
So you say,
well,
for the normal tech
who wants to go out,
the typical tech
that wants to go out on his own,
who does,
who's going to mentor him?
Well,
if you look at coaches,
a coach
and there are a lot of them
attending this event
is not going to be interested
in a technician
and they're not going to be
interested for one main reason.
Most techs don't have
a pot to piss in
or a window to throw it out.
They're not any different
than the general public
in many respects.
Right.
But the fact is
that if you're going to work
with a coach,
you're going to be spending
depending on the coach
you're working with
between $12 and $1,500 a month
unless you work
for one organization
which makes you sign
a promissory note
to the tune of $80,000
which they get paid
beforehand
and obligating you,
your heirs and the sides.
All right.
So I thought,
well,
this is a golden opportunity
for me to exert some influence
on the industry
because I'm not making any money.
I'm not asking
anybody to sign up
for any program.
Right.
I'm not selling a book.
Yeah.
I'm not engaging
any sort of coaching
contract
or any of that sort of stuff
and the consulting work
that I do,
they can't afford
because I do it
from multiple shop owners
who are making money
who can legitimately afford it.
So I'm like,
okay, let me work
with the auto shop
owners group
which is a group
that was started eight years ago.
I'm the treasure of it.
Yeah.
And what we do
is we work
with
owners
who's back or against the wall
who can't afford to pay that
and we get them to the point
where
the pressure is off.
They have money coming in.
They can see the glimmer of light
at the end of the tunnel.
Now if they want to transition
to a paid coach,
God bless them.
At least they can afford
to do it
and grow along that path.
Yeah.
Well, that's what I'm doing with techs.
There's no reason
that a tech
shouldn't know what to expect
when he's going to pursue
the path of shop ownership.
Yeah.
You have to know things
if you're going to be successful at it.
My obligation to the industry
that has allowed me
to feed my family
to put a roof over their head,
I have no choice.
I can't just coast
and say it's somebody else's problem.
Yeah.
I feel the very same way
in my role, right?
I now know what my power is.
I'm not going to be the level of technical
being able to pass that on.
I'm not there.
I'm competent, but I'm not there, right?
I can mentor a couple of people
in my workforce,
but do I feel comfortable enough
to go out there
and put this on the internet
and challenge everybody to say,
that is a definitive way to do that?
No.
But I seem to be able to resonate
with a large population
of the technicians in this industry
for whatever reason.
I think it's just because
we've all walked through
the similar mud
and had to bear the slings and arrows
to get to where we are
for whatever that may be
and it leaves us all
kind of feeling the same way.
And I've been the guy
that through this method
has been able to come out
on the other side and go,
man, it doesn't all suck,
but let's cast light
on what is making it suck
or who is making it suck.
And I've never backed away from that.
I was not raised
to ever back away from anything.
I was not ever very good
at keeping my mouth shut.
So it's not something that is
even in my peripheral
that I might should be doing
to change the trajectory of this.
It's not.
I go with it.
I just stay to me
and that's it.
And I let it take care of it.
God will guide me the rest of the way.
It will be what it will be.
And I'm very lucky for that
because it's keeping me
like I'm the same way.
I feel like I have something now
to give back.
And I didn't have that five years ago.
And that
as crazy as the weight
that comes on you
with that responsibility
at the same time
you feel more unburdened
because you know the direction
that you can go.
That's huge, man.
Huge.
So cool.
When I was at the
when I was at the airline
I was known as a systems junkie.
And there was a problem
where I was being dispatched
to an airport
with equipment
that was on the
MELs called the minimum equipment list.
Okay.
And maintenance control
was attempting to dispatch me
in a way that was illegal.
I refused
big brouhaha over the phone.
It's recorded.
And long story short
I refused the flight.
Flight was canceled.
They sent up another section
and passengers were accommodated
albeit much much later.
I get a call the following day
director of training
who said I listened to the conversation.
It's obvious to me
that you have a superior knowledge
of the airplane.
We'd like you to become an instructor.
And I said I really I'm touched.
I'm honored that you asked me.
But before you do that
I think you might want to look
at my HR file.
Two days later he calls me back
he goes thank you very much
for the heads up offer withdrawn.
I'm like you I am not.
Yeah.
I'm not diplomatic.
Right.
I don't it's gotten me in trouble
my entire life
because I say what I mean.
I mean what I say and I do
what I say I'm going to do
when I say I'm going to do it.
That's all there is to it.
Those are not bad virtues
to live by.
They are now.
Yes they are.
Now are you a lot like him.
Would you say much better than I am.
That's a that's a nice thing
to say though.
She's much better than I am.
That's not absolutely not true.
I mean I hope so.
I think that the one thing I try
really hard on every single day
is to have the kind of integrity
that he has.
I mean he he just does not back
away from anything.
If something is you know morally
right he is he is in line with
that and that's really difficult.
And I think that for me that's
like the the thing I think
about every day is am I being
am I using integrity in these
decisions that I'm making
whether it be at my job
or with my friends or whatever.
And that's a legacy isn't it Dutch.
That's a legacy.
I mean that's that's which that's
what your hope for your children
is that you know that they're
happy in life that they're
healthy and that they have a
value system that they can carry
forward to the next generation
and maybe sometime we'll be
blessed with grandchildren no
pressure.
But you know this this is
what you need to do.
You have to have a life that's
worth examining and worth
celebrating.
There are just some things in
life that I just refuse to do.
It's cool for other people.
You want to do them.
I don't drink to excess.
I don't run around.
I don't gamble.
I don't do drugs.
I don't do any of that.
My my advice is I buy too many
tools.
All right.
I'm a tool junkie.
Yeah.
That's it.
And I indulge my daughter
because she's the light of my
life.
So this this is what I do.
You know.
Yeah.
Worst things to have happen
to be sure.
But she represents the best
part of me because she's
rational.
Yeah.
She's reasonable.
Yeah.
I could say stuff.
And she steps back.
So what you're saying is and
I'm like oh that's so good.
Yeah.
I don't you know I think she
learned that in school.
She may have learned part of
that for my wife who's the
best thing I ever did in my
life was marry that woman.
But you know this this is
this is the way things work.
So what do you see when
when you have a classroom of
people like that younger
new start outs as I guess we
could say what is some of the
big obstacles that you see.
Not like so to two part that
you see in trying to get
through to them and they see
in what they're trying to
implicate in the industry.
But see there's a change in
the idea of work ethic
and structure right now more
and more younger people believe
in the ethic of work like
balance.
And they do that because
they're discouraged.
They see the American dream
is failing them because
they will never be able to
accomplish in their mind what
their parents did.
So since I'm not going to be
able to have home ownership
since I'm not going to be able
to retire when I want since
I'm not going I am going to
focus my energies on that
which I can control which is
time spent with family right.
Certainly very commendable.
But it's an excuse it's a
cop out because if you're
in this business and you're
a technician never in 25 or
30 years like I said or
more has there ever been a
more golden opportunity
for you to ton it
if you had a work ethic.
Yes.
If you have the ability to
understand the measure of how
badly you want something is
what it is you're willing to
give up to get it.
And if you understand that
you're sacrificing today
for the blessings of tomorrow
you can ton it.
And you don't have to be
the fastest ATAC and you
don't have to be flat rate
or anything.
You can write your own
damn ticket by doing that
which others won't do
and you'll do it for a
short period of time.
I'm not talking 20 minutes
I'm talking about you do it
for several years.
It might take you eight
it might even take you 10 years.
That means 10 years and
not going to ball games
or not going to recitals
coming in late leaving early
working the Saturday
or the day that you don't
want right doing that
sacrificing again today
for the blessings of tomorrow.
And the next thing you know
if you do it right
and you manage your money
right and you approach
eight approach a mentor.
Hey look I'm 52 I can retire.
Yeah.
I'm 55 I retire.
We lived modestly I'm 50
I can retire and do whatever
the hell I want to do.
Spend time then.
Yeah.
Deferred gratification.
Play with grandchildren.
Right.
Exactly.
I mean this is this is
what can be done.
So when someone says to me
well you know it's
a different time.
I acknowledge it absolutely
is a different time.
But if you're a tech
in this environment
with all the leverage
that you have
if you're not out
studying to improve yourself
every night instead
of watching an FM ball game
if you're not doing
what's necessary
to improve your skills
your ability
show up on time.
Yes.
Leave your problems at home.
Yes.
Forget about the baby mama drama.
Don't be liquored up
and show up hungover.
Don't be one of these morons
that goes
boss earns a dollar
iron a dime.
That's why I'm going to poop
on company time.
Right.
Yes.
Don't be on the phone
every 10 minutes.
Oh my god.
With the
girlfriend problem
or you know
whatever your side hustle
thing maybe
focus on what you're doing
when you're at your job.
Now there's some guys
and this is
this will piss a lot of people off.
So that makes me happy.
Okay.
So there are some guys that say
look I don't care
how much time
the guy gets on the phone
as long as he gets the work done.
Right.
Okay.
So if if you give the guy
eight hours of work
and he gets the work done
in six hours
knocks it out.
Well
give him more work.
Let him earn.
Right.
Help him construct
a budget.
Hey if you do this
if you get off the crapper
if you get off the phone
I can show you
where you're going to earn
X amount of more money per day
X amount of more money per week.
We'll set this up
in a retirement account for you
we'll put it in this type of
investment.
Let me set you up
to have you ever set up a budget.
How about I got Dave Ramsey
for my guys at the shop.
I'm like who wants to have
Dave Ramsey
I'll pay for it.
Nobody wanted it.
Nobody wanted it.
I'm giving them everything
they need to secure their future.
They didn't avail themselves
but they'll complain.
So Dutch is that a reflection
on the fact that they already
feel like it is
it it's all for naught
because of this current situation
that we're in going back to
that the way the light
the world has changed
and the economic
situation all kind of stuff
is could that be why
or is it.
Certainly no I mean that
that's a very very fair question
it certainly could be
that they're discouraged
and that discouragement
is preventing them
from seeing things
in a proper perspective.
Absolutely.
But the fact is sometimes
you just got to grow the F up.
Yeah.
Okay.
Don't come crying to me
about you're not having
the future you want
when you're not willing
to make that investment
in that future.
Yeah.
That's powerful.
All right I mean
you know you asked my daughter
she grew up without me.
Is that something I'm proud of?
No it absolutely isn't.
Seven days a week
work seven days a week
for nine years.
I worked seven days a week
for nine years
while I was going through
chemotherapy.
I worked.
Because I did that though
what did she want for?
Nothing.
And I'm not talking about
buying her the latest
and greatest in a new car
or any of that sort of stuff.
You know the fact is
she got she went to a good
school a good college
she always had food
in her belly
a roof over her head.
She lived in a nice house
not a great house
not a mansion
three bedrooms two baths
she had what she needed
to thrive
and she has.
But in order to do that
I wasn't there for her
because I had to start
at 40 all over again.
But the example that you set
I can see that she's taken
a lot of it
to heart
and she you know the
yes it's absent time
but she seemed to have a
I'm going to assume
probably at a very young age
understood what it was all
about and why.
She got scared.
One time she overheard
me talking to my wife
about the loss of retirement
and that scared her.
You remember.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean I studied finance
in school and my friends
used to say
why do you always start
every sentence with.
Well when the markets
crashed in 2008.
And it was because
it's shaped who I am
you know that
that conversation
and this idea that
everything you have
can be taken away from you
and you have absolutely no idea
when it's going to happen
or how it's going to happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's it.
So you know we make a joke
in the family we'd say
she's so tight
that when she walks
her sneakers quick.
All right because
but I'm proud as hell
because she doesn't waste money.
Right.
And see what.
That's awesome to you
because whereas it could have
like really shaped you
in a dark way
and felt like all was woe
and it was never going to
you just buckled down
just like he does
and has and always will.
To to
effort.
I'm going to do the best
that I can with it.
Right.
I think that he taught me
the only thing you're really
in control of
is your work ethic.
Like the things that happened
to him.
You know it's completely
like out of the blue.
Right.
And the only thing
that you can do
is like he said
you just kind of get through
it by keep working hard.
And I would say like
you know this idea
that he's gone
in my childhood.
Physically he's gone
but what is he doing?
He's providing for our family.
So was he really gone?
The answer is no.
No.
Yeah I didn't I didn't go to
some of the parties
that she went to.
And you know there's things
that father daughter
stuff that I missed.
Yeah.
Let's be candid.
Okay.
And you're never going to
get that back.
She's only going to be
three four or five years
old or whatever.
But ultimately that's
not the bigger issue.
The bigger issue is
the odds are really high.
She needs to have her
future set up
to give her the tools
that she can go make her
way in the world
and be successful.
Yeah.
Now my other child
is on the spectrum
and he will never ever
be able to take care of himself.
It's not his fault.
No.
That's the way the good Lord
made him made him
that way for a reason.
Well what's my responsibility?
What's my obligation
to take care of him?
Which means
you got to put money back.
Yeah.
You got to plan for the care
that's going to happen
after we're gone.
Yes.
Because he's going to be
living for another 30 40
years after Louise and I
go take the dirt nap.
Yeah.
So if you don't do that
if you don't live up to your
obligations
what good are you?
What kind of man are you?
And see I think that's where
because I mean I'm not a daughter
I'm somebody's son
but I mean I can remember
like my father
I have memories of when it was
like he worked a lot too
because my dad was
collision tech
and then we were always
working on cars at home
on weekends right?
So there was a lot of times
I can remember that
I can remember having to like
beg him
while he was in the middle
of working on a car
on a Saturday afternoon
to finally take the training
wheels off the bike
so that I could start trying
to you know
and I couldn't have found
the tool in the garage
to be able to get them off
anything that
so I can remember him
grumbling
and finally getting the
and then of course it's not
you don't just
he didn't turn around
and go back to work
he has to get involved
in me learning
how to balance on
kind of stuff
and part of me remembers him
I having to beg
and plead
and get him to
to stop working on the car
for a second
to help this pivotal point
in my life
but I don't disrespect him
or resent him
for what he was doing
at that time
I just remember that
right it's a
it's a memory burned
in my brain
that because
he's in coveralls
and an old welding cap
on the top of his head
because he was probably
in the trunk
brazing floorpans
into the trunk panel
that's what he would have
been doing right
so I am
I'm appreciative
of what the hustle
that he put in
his whole life
for my parents
to provide for both of us
my brother and myself
so
but at the same time
you don't have that
any kind of
ill feelings to him
because of what he had to miss
you understand the sacrifice
was worth the reward
whereas I see other people
that complain about it
my daddy was never
there's obviously more there
and it's just an excuse
I don't think she ever
see I can't speak to anybody
else's circumstance
right
but she has owned me
since she was
wee big
this is one of my favorite stories
Louise is in the
in the kitchen
Anna's
maybe two years old
between two and three years old
and
she says to Anna
come here honey
so Anna
comes in the kitchen
and she says
do this for mommy
so Anna
being a good daughter
does this
but I'm standing there
and she says okay sweetie
go out and go play
but I turn to Louise
I say what the hell
did I ever do that for
she goes I just wanted to
see which one she had
you wrapped around
so there was never any
right
yeah
there was never any doubt
although I wasn't there
that she was cherished
and loved
there was
there was
of all the things
you could say about me
and there are plenty of
bad things you could say
she always knew
my kids always knew
how I felt about them
and that I was doing
what was necessary
for our family to thrive
so you can either accept
that
or you can betch about it
yeah
yeah you can't
you can't resent your job
and I think that
that's something that's
really powerful for me
especially
as I've started my career
you know in the past decade
there's gonna be times
where it's hard
and you're gonna
not get to do the things
you want to do
or you know you're gonna
work later
and not sleep as much
so you can't resent
the things that
are gonna take you
where you want to go
and for him
you know making these
sacrifices for our family
if I
if I resented that
I would be miserable right
right
and instead it's so powerful
because it's like
now I have this very
strong work ethic
and you know candidly
I live
I live very well
and I'm
and I'm very thankful so
and I always say
it's I credit my dad
because the late nights
or the working on weekends
or whatever I
I don't resent
because it's an opportunity
to get better
and it's a defeated attitude
I think to just cop that
is an immediate excuse
like
I resent my parents
for this
right
my you know
I had
I had nice things
but they were never there
you know what kind of crap is that
well it's modern crap
you know
you know I mean
coming from a
group of immigrants
when they came to this
country and had nothing
and watched their family
being wiped out
by the Holocaust
and
you have a different perspective
of really what's important
in that regard
in the sense of family
yes
that was there
you know people that
they just
they lose it
right
I mean the entire time
my mother
didn't complain
when her father worked
that was not
you didn't
these are Eastern European people
they were stoic
you you did what was necessary
because you had
an obligation to do it
yeah
that obligation
no longer
exists
now it's a choice
yeah
well no
you don't
have that choice
I mean
yeah you always have it
in other words
and there's nothing
nobody's holding again
the gun in your head
so you can't do it
but the fact is that
in the culture
in which I was raised
there were certain things
that men did
certain things that women did
certain things you did
as a couple
to advance
the family
yeah
now
and I saw even
there isn't that anymore
it's
you know yes
you do see people
that are saying
I value the time
and I want to work life
balance
and all that sort of stuff
but
yeah
so
it's not
aside from the coaching side
of things
like as
to the advice of the younger
shop owners starting out
what's some other things
that you can
that you can share from
from your insight
as to what they need to be doing
all right so the first thing
they need to do is
and this is one of the most
difficult things
that they need to do
it really
I don't care how many books
you got on growing a business
or any of that sort of stuff
you have to have some
real introspection
you have to
absolutely stop what you're
doing
turn off the distractions
and ask yourself
am I cut out to do this
am I willing to make
the sacrifices necessary
so that I can do
what it is I want to do
am I willing to sacrifice time
with my family now
am I willing to put
my personal fortune at risk
am I willing to go into debt
am I willing to make sure
that when I come home
I don't bring the
anguish of work
or the frustration into the house
because it's not my spouse's fault
yes
that that trans slipped off the
you know the jack
that's not has nothing to do
with her
with her at all
right
you have to determine
am I
willing to put the time in the book
so that I understand
what a financial statement is
I'm not trying to become a countant
I'm not trying to do
I just want to be able to look
and understand the numbers
and tell me what they mean
am I willing to put the time
into say
you know
I don't know this
I'm going to need help
what is the KPI
what does that stand for
can you tell me what the difference
is between mark-up and margin
why that's important to me
what are the benchmarks
that I should be shooting for
at every dollar
how much should wind up going
towards labor
how much should go to parts
how much should go for overhead
how much should go for marketing
and what am I supposed to be left with
by asking questions
sincere interest
because you may engage in introspection
determine
this ain't for me
this is not what I want to do
find a mentor
find somebody who's successful
in the business
and see do you want to run your business
like they do now
in this case I'm going to have to be fair
well I don't care for obviously
for the volume based transactional model
there are plenty of people
if you just view it as a business
yes
there are plenty of people that
want to do that business
because you produce revenue faster
than at established relationship
based you scale it faster
it has a whole host of advantages
all right
if that's what you want to do
if you're money motivated
if you if your idea of being a great tech
is flat rate
because you want that cash
then you you should shift yourself
to the to the volume based
transactional model
yeah
if you care about people go look don't
worry about
I'll do the service the money will follow me
I do really good work
yeah
that's a relationship based model
determine who you are
determine what's important to you
be true to yourself
and then ask yourself
am I going to do this
am I really
or is this just kind of like a passing idea
yeah
you know
because a lot of people want to do
stuff but when it comes to
the rubber meeting the road
they don't do it
or did I make the mistake from going away
from being an employee
and deciding I was going to be a business owner
perfect
right you're exactly right
was that a mistake for some
yeah absolutely
I think that the industry where we are
right now
I'm going to say it I think even for a
long time before
they did make a mistake
yep
well the the bot themselves a job thing
that we always see people refer to
right
it's a very real thing Dutch
like it has happened for a lot of us
have worked for people that just
managed to buy themselves a job
you made an interesting point
when you talked about debt
do
I'm going to think that when you're starting out
that's inevitable
you're going to have to go in a little bit of debt
right
I think it's like the
the equipment that the shop is going to need
the
you know
I don't want to say marketing maybe
because like I don't
necessarily believe that that
if you do it right
you need to spend a pile of money on marketing
I think you
if you do it right
it takes care of itself a lot of it
but where's some of the
how do they avoid those pitfalls of
too much too fast
well the first thing you have to wind up
doing is realizing that you don't need to buy
anything new if used will do
all right there's no reason that
if you're starting a business out that
you be should be spending $80,000 on a
hunter setup
yeah
hunter make great equipment
no question about it
yeah
if you can't determine what the return on
investment is
if you don't understand the calculation
necessary to determine that
you don't buy it
you buy something that's older that you
can use that you can pay off quickly
right that's one of the things that you can
wind up is it necessary to have the
latest and greatest tire balancer
no no
no
right
we've been balancing tires with long
before road force and balancing them
effectively
yep
long before
did it sometimes take a little bit more
time yes
yes
but we were able to do it
I mean cars would go 200 miles an hour
long before there was a road force
balancer
without shaking the you know the fillings
out of the driver's teeth
one of the things that you have to do is
resist the temptation to get on the
software bandwagon that costs you
$200 here a month 180 there
$320 because after that all adds up
yeah
can you do stuff do you have to buy an
SMS right away
shop management system no you don't
initially you can do it with quick books
right
all right because you're not going to be
that busy
unless you buy an established business
already
where you have cash flow that's coming in
right
so to kind of offshoot from the software
answer
is there something you suggest
that they don't tackle
as a young as starting out
well the first thing you have to do is
do not buy an alignment machine
okay
do not get any alignment machine when
you first start out there's no
reason
you should be able to sub that out to
somebody in your name but yet so
many coaches tell us all it's such a
great revenue generator and you save
so much money by not having to sublet
it out and
it's such a quick turnaround on the time
because you bill it for 1.2 and you
know your tech should only take 18
minutes
yeah well you really want to talk to
me about this
well you and I know that an 18 minute
alignment is not really what you're
doing is you're setting the toe and
you're letting it go yeah okay you're
not performing an alignment
and if you're gloating about the
fact that you're doing it in 18
minutes and you're charging them for
1.2 and you're not performing the
service as it's designed
you're stealing from them yes
okay now if you did it
if you did the service correctly and
because you're fast knowledgeable you
seldom make mistakes and you can
knock it off
take the time right but setting the
toe and let it go
and that's it no what are you gonna
do when you need a calibration
lane change what are you gonna do
yeah set the toe and let it go and
go to work
right you don't have to buy new tools
for everything that comes across your
desk
you don't have to accept every bit of
work
that comes across your desk that was
what i was going to be
asking you next because you're
you are known as a guy that could
fix some problem cars back in the
day yep
right but when you look back at
those problem cars what was the
key
to making it work for you financially
and was there a whole lot of them
that you look back now and go
that was just an exercise in
fertility and pride
well there's there's a couple of them
that absolutely kicked my butt and you
know i actually had to ship
to the dealer i was just like i
appreciate in my rope i got nowhere to
go i've exhausted every avenue
i don't know right and i turn to the
owner and say look
here's the deal
um you're not paying me for any of that
that i've done
i didn't fix the vehicle i didn't come
up with a plan to allow you to
fix the vehicle
do me a favor
when you go and bring this to the
dealer
okay because you haven't spent any
money with me it didn't matter if i
had one hour in or ten hours
they did not pay it's in writing on my
website right
okay if i couldn't figure out what was
wrong with it
go to the dealer when the dealer
figures it out let me know what the
hell it is i got to see what i missed
right most of the time people would
laugh and go sure
and they would you know they would
tell me here this is what i'm like
oh what a dumbass you know i i
completely forgot about that i didn't
i didn't do this right or anything
but for the most part
when someone would bring in a science
project i got paid up front
and i had to have them understand
that they ultimately wouldn't pay for
any testing evaluation
if i couldn't come up with the solution
but the only way that was going to
happen was if they agreed to the
testing plan
that i prescribed in advance right so
years ago it was 750 bucks
to start
because when somebody comes to me and
i've been to five other shops and
they couldn't figure it out
what obligation do i have to them to
be cheap zero exactly right
i'm willing to put my money where my
mouth is and guarantee my repair we're
going to start with 750 now i can call
you and tell you i want you more you
have to determine what it is you want
to spend
really really simple and if i say i need
another 750 and you say no i'm not
giving you that money back because you
turned me down
you're so you're still giving them a
value of what the 750 the testing
results the the the eliminations of
it's not this it's not that it's not that
and it isn't that we're still not there
yet
but there's value in what we say to the
customer right and that i've
eliminated
you don't if somebody goes to if you
go to anyone else and they tell you
that you need those four things
i would lay my reputation on the line
that you don't because i've already
proven out that you don't have we
hit the magic
final whatever you know bullseye
no we have not
but i know that i'm zoned in this close
it's called diagnosis by exclusion
we've excluded that which can't be yeah
so now what remains and we just whittle
that down to get to the point where you
find it
yeah and it's it's absolutely frustrating
and it was certainly a part of pride
and it could i have earned more money
yeah by doing break jobs all day long
yeah by doing gravy front end work
by doing flushathons yeah make me
want to yak
you know that's not
i don't do that i don't do flushers
like that
amazing what um i don't want to keep you
guys i know anna's got yeah one of the
places to be but that's just closing
thoughts on what you think to be back
here and see that the new venue
and you know anna what do you think
of it
and god i hope next year you'll be
here
well i'll be here as long as they want
me to teach the class i want i want
really want
technicians to know that there's an
avenue that's open to them
that can change their destiny yeah
that can change their future that can
provide for their family and there's
never been a better time for it
so i'll be back as long as that they're
willing to have me here so that i can
teach this
and i'll continue to mentor shop owners
through the auto shop owners group
which is a 501c through charity again
nobody pays for anything also another
resource i'm just going to pitch
score.org
which is a service core of retired
executives
oh cool so you go and you go score.org
you enter in your zip code and it brings
you to the closest chapter
so if you say well i don't have
anybody i want to talk to here
boom there it is
okay so
and i answered the question
you don't remember the question
no the question was what i think of the
venue
i think it's incredibly impressive i've
been to the rally convention center
before
i've never been down to this
level but i mean overall the scale the
production the
like involvement of it is all very
impressive and
and i'm a little jealous because you know
i think that it takes a lot of really
passionate people in the industry to
make stuff like this happen so i'm
really glad i i could come this year
i can say that that honestly like
what i love about this industry and
in this
this networking style that we're doing
is the passion that somebody like
your dad
has i've always seen it
but to meet it in person and get to
know and be able to call him a friend
that's something i'm one of the most
proud of is the fact that he considers
me a friend and i am able to call him a
friend
it's huge to me huge because he he was
an example for me before he even knew
who i was
just by how he always took this
industry
you know
so i i've been very blessed so
unyielding and uncompromising in many
respects
you know i
that's i just i i want this place
i want what we do to be thought of
in the same level of professionalism
that people have
as attorneys and airline pilots yeah
because a lot of the work is just as
freaking difficult
one hundred percent
and the risk is the same
all right yeah you're right
i don't have
180 people behind me when i'm doing
this break job
right
but if i do it wrong that mother
and that kids that they may be just
as dead as if i screwed up at the
controls of the airplane yeah
you want to live with that
i don't want to live with it
no no you know
not once not once
there's an expression i'll leave you
with this and i want you to think how
this is going to apply to automotive
repair
and the and the poem is this
aviation to an even greater
even greater degree than the sea
is terribly unforgiving of any
carelessness in capacity or neglect
we have to bring that same attitude
of not tolerating carelessness
incapacity or neglect
to what we do yeah
that's how we're going to get our
value to be understood
amen thank you guys
all right appreciate it thank you
appreciate you
hey if you could do me a favor real
quick
and like comment on and share this
episode
i'd really appreciate it
and please most importantly set the
podcast to automatically download
every tuesday morning
as always i'd like to thank our
amazing guests for their
perspectives and expertise
and i hope that you'll please join us
again next week on this journey of
change
thank you to my partners in the asa
group
and to the change in the industry
podcast
remember what i always say
in this industry you get what you pay
for
here's hoping everyone finds their
missing 10 millimeter
and we'll see you all again next
time
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