Ep. 301: Bargain Alert! Cars That Crashed And Burned This Year!

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You know what that sound is, Tommy?

What you got there?

That's the sound of crashing and burning.

And in this show, we're going to be talking about two different topics that have a common theme.

Yeah, so we're going to talk about some of the cars this year that kind of crashed and burned

as well as some cars that are dying this year and therefore might be a good buy.

Yeah, both of these categories of cars could be something that if you're out there shopping for a new car

you might want to consider because the crash and burns are in selling.

Of course there's a reason for that.

And the cars that are going away are going away so dealers want to get them off the lot

so they can also be gone and be discounted.

So you want to start with crash and burns?

So these are cars that I think were highly anticipated or very controversial

and then when they finally hit the market just kind of landed with a bit of a dud.

And the obvious one which we should start out with.

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Let's start with the crash and burns.

The first one that we have on our list.

You actually went and reviewed.

You went on the program.

So you want to spill the beans on that one?

Well, I think that the Dodge Charger is kind of the big obvious one, right?

So that's the fully electric Dodge Charger Daytona,

which really in volume launched this year

and then immediately kind of started sitting on lots

and had to be discounted in a big way.

But the mistake that Dodge made is of course they launched this car

as the full electric only.

They saw the reaction of the electric car

and then they really pushed hard to get the gasoline model out

as soon as possible.

And that's the car I just went and checked out.

What was it?

Last month, Casey and I went to Detroit for roadkill nights

and got some time in the new gasoline charger

because the electric one just didn't find an audience.

Well, so first of all, let's start with this.

I think it's a very good looking car.

I think Geralt and his team did a great job in styling it.

I love that little wing on the front,

which by the way isn't there if you get the gas version.

If you get the so-called six pack, the six cylinder,

but I think it's just a very, very good car.

I finally got to drive it with my man, Cole,

who's behind the computer there a few,

maybe a few weeks ago, maybe a month ago

at the R-Map annual get-together.

There is me driving it.

And I actually like the car from a design point of view.

It's a handsome car and I think the problem is

with this car as Cole pointed out

because I was looking for a hook, literally.

You'll get that reference in a second for the video.

It's like trying to sell hooks to fish.

They just don't want it.

The audience for this does not want electric cars.

Yeah, right.

I mean, and that was the obvious kind of head scratcher with this.

The crowd for the old Charger and Challenger V8 models, right?

I'm talking RT, SRT, Hellcat, all the old crowd, right?

They, with every bone in their body, hated electric cars, right?

That was the anti-Tesla crowd through and through.

And then Dodge launches their new performance coupe and sedan

as the electric version first, which was a huge mess.

And I understand the performance was actually very good,

especially compared to like zero to 16 in the real world.

This car would kill an old Hellcat, right?

All-wheel drive.

It had a lot of horsepower.

Zero to 16 in about 3.1 seconds.

So I mean, it was a very impressive performer.

But at the end of the day, it was still an electric car.

Trying to sell it to burnout loving V8, loving Americans.

And that just was not going to work.

I think there was an obvious precursor to this,

that if Dodge had been paying attention,

I think they were kind of locked into it.

So I think people, even at the company,

knew that this thing was going to be a rough sell.

But when you think about the crowd that

buys American muscle cars, specifically Dodge cars,

it's the same crowd that buys Harley's, right?

Yeah.

And Harley tried the same thing with the Livewire.

Yeah, that's a good point.

And that didn't end well either.

Yeah.

I mean, it's the sound and the experience

of the internal combustion is such an essential key

ingredients at this pie that it didn't have.

Now, the interesting thing is like,

Dodge had been planning from the get-go

to offer gasoline models alongside the Daytona.

And they basically rushed to get those out.

And it's not official.

No, it's not official.

But we all know that the V8 is going to end up

back in the charger.

Emmy, baby.

Yeah.

So Kase and I went to Michigan to check out

the inline-six version, which comes in two different versions.

There's a low and high output.

I think it's 420 and 550 horsepower.

And that is more on the right track, especially when you look,

when you keep in mind, you know, the performance

of that vehicle, the factory standard I will drive,

I think is a nice improvement over the old one.

The interior quality feels really good

and it'll hold a four-by-eight sheet of plywood.

It's that big.

I think that this is the right car for America.

I just think they should have put the V8 in it

before the hurricane.

But this was under that.

I mean, what we're seeing, dad, is all of the remnants

of the old Stalantis leadership.

So you kind of have three eras, right, in the modern age.

You had the FCA era, which was Marconi and Manley, right?

That was the Hellcat everything era.

Then under Stalantis, we had the new guy, Tavares,

who was kill all the V8s, right?

And you kind of understand, if he's coming

from a European perspective and he was looking

for connections and Euro laws, that made sense, right?

But that never made sense for America.

Even when Café was still a thing, Americans just loved V8s.

So he killed all the V8s.

Those are the cars that we've been seeing.

So that was like RHO Ram.

That was Electric Charger, the electric Wagoneer,

I think to some extent was under him.

And now that we're under a new era of Stalantis leadership,

I think...

Or an old era.

Yeah, really, an old era.

Yeah, we're going to start to see a lot more V8s.

But the product cycles are long enough, right, Dad,

where it's not going to happen overnight.

I mean, this car probably started design process

eight, 10 years ago.

So it's going to take some time for that stuff to come back.

Well, look, I think you made two really good points.

The first point is, if you love American muscle

and you love American sedans, this is a big car.

It's hard to underestimate, especially the four-door,

how big this car is.

This is a true American sedan.

And because it's so long and so big

and actually so heavy with the battery,

it rides really well.

Well, the thing is, you say, especially with the four-door,

they're the same size.

So the two-door and the four-door

have the same profile and roofline.

Thank you for correcting me, but you missed my bigger point,

which is that it rides really well.

Yeah, it does.

It just has a really great ride.

In the same way, a freight train rides really well.

It's got a lot of mass.

Yes, which is fine.

Freight trains are comfortable, I think.

Anyway, the other point here is,

you can get this car at a bargain, not the gas one.

But if you want the electric one,

especially if you get one before the end of the month, right?

September is when all of the credits go away.

And here in Colorado, you now only get the 7,500,

but you also get the $4,000 state credit.

And I've seen these things starting to lease

at like $399, $299 a month.

And that's really cheap, considering

if this is an $80,000 car, if you don't get the base model.

Well, so I was looking at the...

they discontinued the RT.

Yeah.

That one wasn't selling at all.

Yes.

The Daytona.

I'm sure it's still out there.

Yeah, you can still find them out there.

Last time I checked a few weeks ago,

you could pick up an RT if you've traveled to some place

like Wyoming where they really don't want them.

You can roll out before taxes and fees

at like $39,000, $38,000.

And you're still dealing with a car

that's 0 to 16 in five seconds, right?

You still get the big battery.

You still get all-wheel drive.

And I think the RT, too,

you can pay to have upgraded to more power

because it's the same electric motor

from the fast one to the standard one, the Stagg-Skatpack.

Yeah.

So that's a lot of car.

The Stagg-Skatpacks were like,

they were marked down like 12-ish grand,

so they were like 50.

I saw them for more than that, even.

Like 15 I saw.

So the lease deals were good,

but the problem with the lease deals,

like you can lease them for 150 a month, I think.

Yeah.

But it's a tiny, tiny mileage.

It's like 5,000 miles a year.

So the lease deals don't really make sense

if you want to drive a car.

Just enough to take them on a drag strip

and just, you know...

Well, yeah.

I mean, the way to do this,

plus they launched it with that frat sonic sound,

which was a mistake

because people didn't like that.

Yeah, that's the whole other thing.

Now, the other point I was going to make,

and this kind of leads me to the second car, Cole,

and you can look this second car up

in the video I did from Goodwood

because we haven't talked about this one,

so I'm going to surprise you with it

because this one has crashed and not burned yet.

But the second point I want to make is

I fear in the auto industry,

and this is over and over again,

you only have one shot of making a first impression.

And if that first impression is bad,

it's really hard.

And I think this is true for actually this one, too.

Even with the 6-pack out,

I think it's already kind of tainted

with the width of electricity.

But the car I'm talking about

might be the biggest crash and burn

of the British car manufacturing world.

You know what I'm talking about?

No.

It hasn't burned yet.

It has definitely crashed.

The Electra?

No.

Come on.

No.

Starts with the J, ends with an R.

Oh, the Jaguar?

The Jaguar 00 prototype.

That is a car that may be DOA,

dead-on arrival.

I have read and seen and interviewed people

in the UK about this car,

and there is just so much hate,

so much hate already.

And you see it from anywhere from Top Gear

where they just did a story

where they interviewed designers about the car

and professional car designers,

and they said that the thing

is just slabs-sided and not resolved

all the way to the people I interviewed.

And I actually like it.

I think it's actually really cool.

But because it's electric,

and because it is so way out there

in terms of its design language,

in terms of its look,

people just, wow, hate it.

This is probably the most polarizing

vehicle since the Cybertruck.

Yeah, I mean, and then

you've got the baggage that kind of came

with that rebrand that people hated as well.

But to their credit,

if they could produce this car that looks like this,

I do genuinely think it would be

a very interesting design that doesn't exist,

kind of a shooting break,

really long, really wide profile.

I think that there's a lot of potential here.

I've got a really controversial one.

Well, let's talk about this one

before you go to the controversial one.

Okay.

I mean, they haven't built it yet.

The word that I've heard

is a smart marketing on their move

would be to actually make it

the next James Bond car.

What do you think of the prototype 00

as the next James Bond car?

I don't think they can afford James Bond.

I think it's just spend their whole marketing campaign

on getting this car into the next James Bond movie.

It's not a bad idea.

I heard this on Chris Harris's podcast.

I think that there's some loaded politics

with that, though, because we don't know

who the next James Bond is.

And if the next James Bond crashes and burns,

then this car is going to crash and burn

with the next James Bond.

Well, they were saying that the Jaguar should

forget about this and actually come out with like a V8

supercharged or power with a V8 supercharged.

That design with like the twin turbo V8

that JLR has been using from BMW,

that would be pretty cool.

And I actually think that would get some love.

But I'm not sure that as an EV,

it's going to work.

All right, let's keep going.

What's your controversy you'll take?

Well, you had the dead on arrival,

and I kind of like that.

So I want to give you another one.

And people are really going to throw

things at me at this.

OK, I'm ready.

Go ahead.

I think that the slate is dead on arrival.

Yeah, I think that's not that's big of a stretch.

I'll tell you why.

Of course, it's a truck.

So sorry, Andre, we're in truck world.

But that's also an SUV.

Yeah, yeah.

The problem with the slate is it's a two door.

Yes, they never did.

Didn't they do their research?

Like I can't think of one.

We bought the two door Defender for $53,000.

Yeah.

And we traded it.

Traded not sold it six months later for $10,000 less.

Right.

Because nobody wants a two door.

Yeah.

And I mean, you could say that that's

a little land over problem.

But the four door defenders consistently

with the same mileage hold the value pretty well.

And the two doors absolutely tank.

In the Jeep world, in the Wrangler world,

like three out of four Wranglers are the unlimited.

The four doors are maybe more.

Yeah, I think it's even more.

80% now.

Yeah.

Same thing with the Bronco.

So yeah, this two door is just not practical.

Well, this is calling out everybody in the audience.

Everybody who's a car enthusiast claims they want

a two door.

I see it in the comments, right?

Oh, that's not a real Jeep.

It's got four doors, right?

Oh, Bronco's got to have two doors.

But then when you look at the actual hard sales numbers,

people do not buy two doors.

They do not buy it because they're just impractical.

They're hard to live with.

They have spouses and partners.

You had a couple of two doors Wranglers.

How's it getting in their back?

It's pain in the butt.

It is a pain in the butt.

So I mean, I think I love this concept, right?

But there's a reason like all the two door small

trucks are pretty much dead, right?

I don't think you can get a two door Ranger.

You can get a two door Tacoma.

When's the last time you saw one?

I've literally only seen one two door Tacoma.

My friend James has one.

Ever.

Yeah, our friend James.

He had to look high and low and wide and deep to find it.

Because people don't buy them.

Same thing with Colorado.

Same thing with Canyon's, right?

I don't know if you can get a Nissan in a two door,

but if you can't, I've never seen one.

So here's my take on this.

This is interesting, right?

We're talking about bargain.

So how is this a bargain?

Right now, they've just taken basically reservations, $100.

By the way, Andre had, I think two of them and he got so mad

because they didn't invite us to the official launch of it.

Nathan was there?

No, they had a pre-launch where you could shoot it

without all the people around.

He got all grumpy, huh?

He got all grumpy and he basically pulled the plug.

He pulled the plug on his two reservations.

So there you go.

Take that, Bezos.

$200 less for you, Bezos.

That's $200 you don't have now.

We still have a reservation.

We still haven't pulled it, but...

Well, look, I love the concept of a sub-$30,000 new vehicle,

but there's two reasons instead of rival.

Actually three.

Two door only.

Yeah.

B, the tax credits going away.

Yeah, can I talk about that?

No, not yet.

I don't want to talk about that again.

No, no, no, no.

I want to talk about it in terms of the loophole

that there may be a bargain here.

We'll talk about that in a sec.

But the third reason I don't think this is going to work

is it's too basic.

So this is another one where people claim day in and day out

that they want the basic cars.

Every single car dealer I've talked to,

and we have a lot of friends now that run car dealerships,

every single one says they cannot sell base model anything.

So we've got our friend, Steve.

Yeah.

Unless you're a fleet.

In Pennsylvania, he was talking about how he was a hard time

selling the base models, right?

Unless you're a fleet buyer.

Unless you're a fleet, yeah.

Fleets are kind of another thing.

And maybe this would work with fleets.

But people come in and then they want the features.

Ryan Johnson, right?

At Johnson's.

Why don't they have cheap jeeps?

I asked them.

Because no one buys a cheap jeeps.

I had mine that we actually accidentally ordered too.

They had a base model Wrangler.

Nobody bought it for like six months.

Yeah.

I mean, it's interesting how people like to have electric windows.

You would think that this is something for a cheaper car

that they could do without, but no.

In the reality.

People like electric windows.

They like electric windows.

When it comes to actually buying vehicles,

not us fantasizing as car enthusiasts,

but putting the money down, people want a radio

and people want power windows.

Well, how about central door locking,

which yours didn't have either?

That was a pain in the neck.

The fleet might have that.

All right.

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant,

you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference.

That's why hands down you count on Granger for auto reordering.

With on time restocks, your team will have the cut

gloves they need at the start of their shift.

And you can end your day knowing they've got safety

well in hand.

Call 1-800-GRANGER. Click Granger.com or just stop by.

Granger for the ones who get it done.

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So here's the loophole.

So the IRS has basically said that if you have

a binding contract on an electric vehicle,

you can get the $7,500 tax rebate.

If it's a binding contract, which means

that you've actually put money down

or you have traded a car down something.

So the idea is, let's say that the car you want

isn't at the dealership right now.

And it's an electric vehicle.

But it's coming.

So if you sign a binding contract

or if you trade in your car,

which is also a binding contract,

so money or things of exchange at hands,

then you can get that vehicle

with the $7,500 tax credit,

the new vehicle you're ordering.

And they haven't put a time on it,

so potentially you could get it in October,

November, December, January.

They may close that loophole,

but with this, if Slate decided

to turn that reservation into a binding contract,

you could potentially still get that $7,500.

But I don't think they're going to do that

because they don't even have pricing for it.

No, they're pretty far off.

They do have pricing.

But like pricing that they're going to stick with

because at that point,

it's a price that you're going to pay

when you have a binding contract.

So that is the potential bargain buy here

if that loophole is usable for this vehicle.

I think they're too far out.

Let's keep going.

So last thing I want to say about Slate,

I do want them to work

because I think the design and the concept are awesome.

But what they need to do,

if I would get a professorial here,

not that I know anything,

but if I was Slate,

I would take this design,

give it two more doors,

and then put a Toyota 4-cylinder under the hood.

Something, no seriously,

something small and basic

that's going to run until the end of time

and sell it for $30,000.

I would do what the i3 did at that point.

Just put like a motorcycle engine.

No, it's too confusing.

People don't understand.

Make it a rage extender.

People don't understand that.

Make it a Rex.

Just get rid of the battery thing altogether.

Just a four-cylinder,

two-liter naturally aspirated engine

that'll last till the end of time.

Go find the Toyota 22RE.

They sure they still have the bits still lying around.

Put that under the hood

and this thing would be a massively popular car.

Make it a Rex.

Call it the Slex.

No, horrible.

Moving on to the next one.

All right.

The one that of course is

probably the biggest crash and burn.

I would say at least of the decade

might be a century as a Cybertruck.

Yeah, I mean,

I mean, so in our last car-ish podcast,

like Scott will solve it,

will solve in law,

kind of compared to the Prius,

but the better comparison is the Aztec.

Right?

It's just, it's too polarizing

and now it's too political.

Except the Aztec,

you didn't have the CEO, you know,

picking winners in the presidential race.

Yes, that would have hurt the Aztec

potentially even more.

But I really do think

if the politics thing hadn't happened

and if they just make it look like a normal-ass truck,

it's actually, it's a pretty good product.

Like it does a lot of stuff really, really well.

I'm one of the only people

that actually likes the Cybertruck.

I'm waiting for it.

I would buy it again.

I'm waiting, you know, ours was 100,000.

We sold it in the nick of time

for like 80,000, I think.

It was like 85 or 90.

No, we didn't sell for that much.

We lost like 20K on it.

Oh.

Yeah, I want to say we sold it for 82 before.

In three minutes, we had that thing for like two weeks?

Before, yeah,

luckily because now we'd be selling it for like 42.

So we lost, you know, like 20K on it.

But while we had it,

I really enjoyed it.

I liked all the features.

I thought it actually worked pretty well

as a Cybertruck,

not necessarily as a Cybertruck.

So if you look at,

if you think about it as a car with a giant trunk

that does a lot of things that, you know,

a Cybertruck would do,

I think in that regard,

it would be a much more palatable vehicle

for many people.

Sure.

But yeah, I mean, you know,

you can go down the list of all the issues,

quality, price, weird stainless steel issues.

I mean, I think for most people,

it's just the design.

It's just too weird.

It's too ugly.

Square steering wheel,

looking at the video.

No, I mean,

I think that the engineering is great.

The steer by wires proven it was okay.

Intel, did you see that guy took it on the Rubicon Trail?

Yeah, I saw that.

He snapped like three tie rods

and then had to be rescued.

And that wasn't a great look for the Cybertruck.

No, it's not meant to.

There's a lot of cars you could take on the

on the Rubicon Trail and do the same thing.

Yeah.

It's not just a Cybertruck.

I think even a Rivian,

which is smaller and has a lot more ground clearance,

would have a hard time going on the Rubicon Trail

because that's a very hardcore trail.

Yes, it is.

So I'm, but I just like,

honestly, I think that the power train is really good.

The supercharging is pretty good.

What's interesting is they haven't come down in price.

They've got that basic one now that's like...

Well, used, they have.

Yeah, used.

But new.

But new, they're still like 70K,

even if you want the basic one.

And then there's just a classic Tesla.

Oh, so he was going to start at $39,000.

Yeah, that was also bad.

The basic one starts at 70.

So yeah, I just think it's just too weird,

too polarizing.

It's too politicized now.

And it's, I do think that you're right though,

it would be a great used bargain in like three, four years.

If you could pick one of these up for $15,000, $20,000.

I'd buy a new one for $50,000 right now

if they sold a new one for $50,000.

Now to try, don't get the tri-motor problematic.

You want two real, it's got two rear real lockers,

the dual motor, right?

So mechanical lockers, not these electronic lockers,

which are problematic.

And it's got air suspension so you can lift it.

It's got four-wheel steering.

It's got a steer by wire.

It's got that giant trunk.

I think they also took away the sliding tantal cover

off the basic one, which was great.

Yeah, but the basic one's the only single motor.

Yeah.

It was great because I went to pick up my friend Steve

and he had all his luggage and we threw him in the back

and it started raining and it stayed nice and dry.

I mean, it's a useful vehicle.

It's just not a 70K.

What are you going to do with a single motor

Cybertruck off-road though?

Yeah, it's useless.

Yeah.

So the basic one is kind of an interesting idea,

but it's...

Tesla, when you get the dual motor down to $50,000,

call me.

Yeah, give it three months.

It'll be down to $50,000.

The rumors are that there's like 10,000 of these sitting around.

The last story about it was that the U.S. Air Force

once used it for target practice.

So where are all those 10,000 Cybertrucks

that got made and didn't get sold?

Where are they?

Are they just rusting or not rusting somewhere?

Well, they're stainless steel.

So that does help with the rest prevention.

Corroding?

Corroding.

There you go.

Are they sitting in some giant parking area?

Come on, Tesla.

Just move them.

Speaking of moving, there's another one

that's a little bit older, but it's still crashing burn.

Of course, I'm talking about the Fisker Ocean.

Yep.

That was more like 2024, those crashed.

But the stories behind those are pretty wild where people

were paying $50,000, $60,000 for.

More.

And now you can pick one up for $11,000 or $12,000.

Yeah.

So the unsold inventory was bought by American Leasing.

I think it was the name of the company.

And they bought it, I think, anywhere from like three

to 15K depending on the condition of the vehicle.

And then now they're being, I guess they're running all

over New York.

They're being leased or rented or sold

to Uber drivers who are using a mass taxis in New York.

So this is the new New York taxi now.

Yeah.

I mean, I really do think if they had come out

with a small relatively affordable truck like Rivian did,

they probably would still be around.

But just having another blobby overpriced

and relatively unreliable crossover just wasn't the move.

And they didn't have the dealer network in place.

Yeah.

It was a little bit half done the Fisker Ocean.

To the credit, I mean, I can't believe that they got

those things out the door.

You know, building a car, any car is such a monumental task.

So credit, we're credits to they got that done.

And it did have some cool features like all of the windows

go down, even the little quarter windows.

There's one that runs around Boulder with the quarter

windows down always, which I think is cool.

The California button.

The California button, yeah.

And it didn't have like the screen that did the twisty thing.

So like there were some cool little gimmicks in the car,

but it didn't really move the needle beyond what Tesla

or Hyundai or Ford or Volkswagen are doing.

Now the next two are kind of in the process

of crashing and maybe burning a little bit.

And I'm of course talking about Porsche.

So Porsche has come out with two electric vehicles,

the McCann or do you say McCann?

And of course, the Taycan.

And these are two very good products,

but they're kind of they've got that problem

of like right car, wrong time,

or perhaps right car too expensive.

So let's start with the McCann McCann.

They were going to, of course, this is one of

their most popular models, right?

So they were going to electrify it

because of what's happening in Europe.

So in Europe, we're off with the Trump administration.

We are, of course, off the everything's going electric timeline.

But in Europe, they still have to basically,

especially like in places like the EU,

everything has to be electric by 2035.

And so this is why Porsche is rushing ahead

with electric vehicles because the governments

are saying that you won't be able to sell

in truck combustion engines.

But the problem with this car, and I like it.

I like the design of it.

I think it's, I'm never driven.

I'm actually going to go drive it in two weeks

up in Aspen.

Okay.

I think it's a very handsome car.

I think it's got a lot of upside.

You know, the cool thing about these

is Porsche always under promises

and overperforms exactly the opposite

of what Tesla did with the Cybertruck.

So I'm expecting the range to be much higher.

Tom over at, what's Tom's channel?

And Kyle both did arrange this on the Taycan.

Okay.

And it feels to be like 300

and they both got like 360 miles of range.

I'm expecting the same thing with this,

but they're just too expensive.

You know, I don't know if this is a car

that's like $80,000.

Yeah.

Or 90, depending on, of course,

if you get the Turbo or the 4S.

But that's a lot of money for a car.

Well, it's a pretty small.

For a mid-sized crossover.

Yeah.

That's a lot.

Compact, more like it.

Yeah.

That's a pretty small crossover.

So I'm just worried that it's not going to sell

because right now we're not in a moment of time

where electric cars are popular.

Well, the bigger concern,

the bigger concern for Porsche

is they also now have a electric Cayenne,

which is just around the corner.

The 70, we'll talk about that in a second.

Not Cayman, Cayenne SUV.

Yeah.

Right.

That he's at a good one as well.

Yeah.

So I mean, I just think that it's in the U.S.

specifically, maybe it's different.

I don't know how it's doing in Europe.

It's just selling any EV right now

is a uphill battle.

But the plus side, like you're talking about

Ticons too, struggling a little.

Used Ticons are pretty good values.

Although I heard they're bouncing up a little bit again.

They kind of tanked and then they're coming up a little.

Yeah.

They kind of, I mean, you could get them

as cheap as $50,000 if you got,

not the turbo, but if you got the base.

Oh, potentially maybe even less than that.

Yeah.

If you get a base Ticon.

Well, it's the newest, same problem.

The newest Ticons are like $180,000 to $200,000.

And if they have the same depreciation curve

as the previous generation,

why would you buy a new one?

Why wouldn't you just wait for somebody else to take the

depreciating hit?

Yeah, that's exactly right.

And when I say that,

I mean, you don't have to wait a long time.

They've been out a while now.

So you can wait six months to a year

and you can pick yourself up a Ticon probably

for 20, 30, 40% less.

I remember Lucid grand touring.

I saw one that had 4,000 miles on it

with six months old, 135 new.

They're selling it for 65.

50% discount in six months with 4,000 miles on it.

The best deal out there though is the Mercedes EQS.

The big eggy sedan thing.

It's not much of a looker,

but that was like 120, 130 new when I drove it.

And you can pick up an EQS used.

There it is, little nerdy Tommy.

You can pick up that car now for like $29,000 or $30,000.

Yeah, and you know.

And not so the design is horrible,

but the way that car drives is phenomenal

and the interior is beautiful

and there's a lot to really like about that car.

Except for the hyper.

No, the hyper screen is bad.

So they had to avoid the hyper screen.

The 4, 15, the 580.

This one I think is a 580.

It doesn't have the hyper screen,

but if you get the 480,

you just get a normal size screen

and that's the one you want.

So we know that all the EQS have crashed and burned

because Mercedes has announced

that they're not building any more EQS for America.

They're still,

ironically, they're actually built here.

So we're exporting EQS now.

We're exporting EQS to the rest of the world,

but the biggest one that kind of crashed and burned

and can be a budget buy is what, Tommy?

Which one?

Which Mercedes EQ?

The G-Wagon.

Yeah, but they're still pretty expensive.

I know, but that's another one.

They're not that cheap.

That's another one that is not selling.

Mercedes has,

somebody, one of the executives

in a recent news report actually said

that it's not selling.

And so that's one that if you want a G-Wagon,

maybe the one you get is the electric one.

The one I really like, which is very underrated,

is the EQB.

That's the little bread van one.

That's going away.

That's on our list of ones that are going away.

Yeah, I really like that EQB.

It actually holds a lot of stuff.

And like I said, you can pick them up for like $35,000.

People hate those cars.

I don't know why though, because they're very good.

They're really comfortable.

They have pretty good range.

They're really fast.

200 miles of range.

Yeah, but I think you could do better in the real world.

Look, the problem, I believe,

with any electric car right now

is that they're all too expensive.

The reason that the Chinese are doing so well with the BYD Dolphin

and the Seagull and the Walrus,

whatever the hell else they have that's equitically themed

or avian themed is because they're affordable.

I think the latest Dolphin is now down to like $12,500.

And at $12,500, Tommy,

if you could build a car, not like a Slate,

but actually a real sedan, because I've seen,

I was in Japan, I saw the Dolphin up close.

If you could sell a car for $12,500 to $15,000,

they would fly off the shelf.

All those people were like,

I'll never get an EV would immediately be buying Dolphins.

I personally believe that's my hot take.

I'm not sure.

For $12,500?

If it only went 80 miles?

No, no, no, they don't go.

They go like $150.

I'm not sure that's enough.

Cole, would you buy an electric car for $150 for $12,000?

If you had a garage, you said.

Yeah.

So the other car, I think that it's also been

a little bit of a dud, actually.

And this is not an EV, it's a gas car.

Is the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer?

Yeah.

I'm not sure that those have worked as well

as you was hoping.

They tried to kind of target that really

upper end luxury segment with those products.

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I mean, there's a theme here.

There's two themes, electrification and price.

Yeah, I think it's too expensive.

Yeah, I remember the last Grand Wagoneer

that I tested was $130,000.

Yeah, which is nuts for a Jeep.

Yeah, look, if you're going to take on

the Suburban and if you're going to take

on the Escalade, you got to bring

more than just a big, you know,

six cylinder turbo,

straight six turbo in the hurricane.

You got to bring it, dude.

You got to bring it because people

love their Slades.

They love their Suburbans.

Slades, not Slades.

Slades.

Yeah, with a D.

Yeah, Slades.

No one has a Slate yet.

Yeah, they love their Slades.

Okay, I'm trying to be cool.

They love their Escalades.

And so if you're going to take on that,

because that has such a connotation

and such a reputation, be it good or bad,

it says something about you.

It's got to be more than, like I say,

$130,000 straight six turbo.

That car was actually, would you go on that launch

with me, Cole, the Escalade IQ in San Francisco?

I think that was you.

That thing's actually pretty cool.

That's what I'm saying.

It's got that coolness about it.

Yeah, I also think that the Wagoneer's

just in this weird spot where it's not

really off-roading, but it also doesn't seem

ultra-luxury, and it's definitely not

that you kind of end up in this weird middle ground

where it doesn't really do anything all

that well, especially for the price.

Well, how about the Wagoneer S, the electric one?

No, that's a kind of a mess.

Yeah, the car is actually,

that's one of the quickest cars I've driven all year.

Really?

The way that, we didn't even,

we had the 500 horsepower version, not the 600.

The way that thing out accelerates

everything on the road is unbelievable,

but there's just no compelling reason to buy one.

You know what I'm being, surprises me.

I get that like us, when I say us,

I mean us car enthusiasts love speed,

but I'm shocked at just how many people now

who have never considered themselves car enthusiasts

like your mom, like some other people I know,

I don't want to name names, that might get me in trouble.

How much they love how quick electric cars are.

I've heard it over and over again

when people get in an electric car,

the first thing that they love is just how fast it is.

Sure.

I should say quick if I'm being more precise

with my language.

So should we move on to the cars that have.

Yeah, let's go.

So car driver wrote up this list

and these are cars that have died,

but you wanted to restructure this.

Yeah, I want to talk about cars that are dying,

but that might be a potential bargain

because the dealers are, you know,

making way now for the 2026s.

There are already some already in the lot.

I was just talking to my man Ryan over at Johnson

and they've already got a lot of 2026 trucks

on the lot.

And so let's get these 2025s out the door

and let's move them.

And the first one on that list

is the last Acura sedan.

Remember this Acura has had sedan

since its beginning, right?

The legend, if you remember back in the day.

Is it Vigor or Vigor was one of them?

Vigor.

Vigor and now it's the TLX that's going away

and it's actually a really good car.

Yeah, especially that Type S.

Yeah, with super handling all-wheel drive.

Kind of like a budget M3.

And it's got.

The damn super handling all-wheel drive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was all-wheel drive, yeah.

That car with those looks

phenomenal.

Even a standard TLX.

I don't think they're killing all the Acura sedans.

Yeah, yeah, that's the last one.

What about the Integra?

Oh, yeah, that's right.

The Integra is the last.

Maybe that's more of a hatchback.

That's more of a hatch, but true sedans.

That's it.

By the way, this list has two things in common.

Sedans on electric.

Both the TLX and the Integra

are extremely good.

I like both of those a lot.

So the TLX and even case

who doesn't like new cars very much

said he loved the TLX.

The Type S with that twin-turbo V6.

The all-wheel drive system.

It's got a really, really nice interior.

The best steering wheel in the business.

It's fun to drive.

It's well made.

It's going to be pretty reliable.

That is a big loss.

I don't know why that.

So when that car launched,

it was very, very, very popular.

It had a ton of interest around it.

And then that kind of just dried up overnight.

It might be a future collectible.

Yeah, I would bet so.

The infotainment's kind of janky.

Yeah, infotainment's terrible.

Yeah, okay.

Terrible.

It's really bad.

It's not kind of janky.

The touchpad thing is what?

But the car drives great.

It's not as sharp as an M3,

but it's also way more comfortable.

It's going to be way better for a daily driver.

I think it's probably going to be more reliable

in the long run.

Very iterated.

That's a big loss.

Yeah, so that would be one that I would certainly go check out

at the Accra dealership if they have one.

And you know, wheel and deal a little bit saying,

hey, it's going away.

Let me get the side of your hair

and you can move on to the...

Actually, Accra is having a really hard time

selling cars right now.

They're struggling.

They're going to roll, bring it on down.

Audi A4.

Now this isn't really going away.

It's being rebadged as A5.

Which is such a dumb rebrand.

Why are they doing that?

So I drove the A5.

It's a really good car.

Yeah, but why not just call it the new A4?

Dude, why do they do this thing where like

the odd ones were electric and the even ones were...

Remember?

No, but I literally do this for a living

and I have a hard time keeping track of Audi.

Audi and Infiniti have so confused

at the marketplace with their branding

that people today don't know what the...

And Cadillac.

And Mercedes.

And BMW.

Especially Audi and especially Infiniti.

Went from M to Q and now the A4 is becoming the A5.

It's just a good car.

I drove it.

I drove the S5.

I really liked it.

So Audi used to have terrible naming.

They had the 100 and the 2000 and the 5000

and no one understood it.

Then they went with A1 through A8

and it made a lot of sense.

That was a guy who then went to Cadillac.

Yeah, they talked about that on Doug's podcast.

But what was great about it is for a while there

you knew an A4 was the four door.

The A5 was the coupe.

The A6 was the four door.

The A7 was the coupe-ish.

Not anymore.

And then the A8 was the four door.

So the odd coops and the evens were sedans.

But now it's just a mess.

And then it started to be a mess

when they had those weird four door versions of the two door.

Like the S5 with the four doors.

That was a mess.

I would buy the S5.

You like that car that much.

Is that good?

I would buy it if it wasn't for the S3.

Okay.

So if you're going to get a sporty sedan

you might as well go for the smaller more lively one

which is the S3.

But the S5 is one hell of a car.

And the regular A5 is also one hell of a car.

It's stylish.

It's got all of those Audi qualities

that made the brand kind of the it brand for a while

until Tesla took over that crown.

But they're starting to get some of their mojo back.

I don't know why they're rebranding it.

I like the A4.

I mean your mom had one.

It's been kind of a brand that has cachet.

A good looking car too.

The current one.

It's just a solid little performer.

It's really, really good.

So that's one actually I think is going to be missed.

So Cole, let's keep going.

But A4, that's a big nameplate that's dying.

Q8 e-tron.

This is another car.

No one understood it.

Because it launched as the e-tron.

Right?

This was a bunch of years ago.

I remember you drove it like, God, that was a couple years ago.

It was Audi's first electric car.

Six years ago.

It was very good.

Very over-engineered.

It was very heavy.

It was very expensive.

Very heavy and very expensive.

Then they facelifted it recently and put the Q8 badging on it for some reason.

And then they have a coupe version of that as well.

But the bargain one to get is the old e-tron.

Those are electric car bargains.

Yeah.

Those are really good cars.

Yeah.

They're very well made.

If you want an SUV that gets close to like 280 miles of range, that's a problem.

They were like 204.

The early ones were.

Yeah.

The early ones didn't have enough.

But toward the end there, the e-tron's got like 250.

If you want one for like $25,000, $30,000, that is a car I would definitely look at.

Yeah.

Great cars.

Even less than that, I think.

Maybe less than that.

Yeah.

For the early ones.

So standard e-tron's really good.

Q8, I'm not sure it's going to be too missed.

You know the rarest one of this.

People don't know this car existed.

But they did an SQ8 e-tron.

I think they probably sold three of them.

But they have a tri-motor setup.

Did you know that?

One motor in the front, two in the back.

Nobody knows it, but SQ8 e-tron.

Future collectible.

You're not afraid of batteries.

Future collectible, yeah.

All right.

Scroll down, Cole.

Let's see what's next.

X4.

So this was the Coupe version of the X3 that started 10 years ago.

I don't like Coupe versions of SUVs.

Yeah.

I think these companies are realizing that they went a little too Coupe SUV heavy.

They went to Coupe.

Yeah.

And I don't think that the market really is there, especially for like the lower

end.

The X6, you know, maybe that starts to make sense when you're looking at that

ultra premium segment.

But for the X4, who really wanted a less practical version of the X3?

It's supposed to be for me.

So the idea is like if you're a young man or a woman and you've got a family

and you've got some money, you get the X3 because it's got the regular, you

know, fully realized hatch where you can get all your stuff in there.

And then if you're like me and you're an empty nester.

Thank you for leaving the nest, by the way.

Then you don't need all that room and so you want the sporty crossover

thing.

I always want the room.

Why wouldn't I want the room?

Yeah, especially in an SUV.

Yeah.

Same thing with the X2.

Never liked it.

All right.

Next.

Let's see.

XT4.

OK, this is an interesting one.

So this is the small Cadillac crossover.

Yeah.

So here this is really interesting because really this is going to

morph into the OPTIQ.

Mm hmm.

Right.

And then the X6, which is also XT6, is also going away.

That's going to become the Vistik.

Yeah.

Sort of kind of.

So Cadillac has kind of gone in on electric and they're getting

rid of the, so I went on the launch of this a few years ago in

Seattle.

Seven.

Seven years ago was how long it was.

And the problem with this vehicle, nothing wrong with it,

but it was just kind of forgettable.

It was just another sort of unremarkable crossover.

Fine.

I mean it had all the Cadillac goodies, but there was

nothing about it that would like that would want to make me

get all fizzy in it.

No.

I mean, I think that my thing with Cadillac and I like a

great realtor car for Tucson.

I felt this with Cadillac for a bunch of years now like their

standard high volume cars.

You kind of just get the chevier, get the Buick version, but

they're kind of the unique expensive versions like the

Escalade.

The Cadillacs are really good.

So I've always liked the big Cadillacs.

I've struggled with the small Cadillacs, except the

new OPTIQ.

I really like that new OPTIQ.

It's based on the Equinox EV.

And it's a lot of car for the money.

It's a really good car.

So I would say if you like traditional Cadillacs and

your realtor in Tucson, go get yourself the next one.

Why don't you go down one more because you're going

to want a little bit more room when you're driving

around your potential clients.

So you're going to call.

Go down one more.

Would you?

Next one.

Go get yourself this one.

XT6.

Yeah.

So that way you've got more room for the families

when you're driving around showing them houses.

But the same, same basic problem.

This was like a, this was like if you, the problem

with the XT6 is it kind of looked and screamed.

I can't quite afford an Escalade.

So.

And actually I just drove the Vistik.

Yeah.

Vistik.

Yeah.

It's actually good.

Vistik V, I should say.

The Vistik V.

Yeah.

Better than the Vistik V or the R.

This was a very, I drove this car.

This was Alex Leitman's very first press launch.

We drove the same in DC.

Yeah.

I did the 4e to the 6.

It's pretty dull.

Yeah.

That's the problem with them.

It's pretty dull.

XT6's big party trick.

It's had a pretty usable third row.

You know what it's like?

It's kind of like we just saw this car coming in back to the

office today.

It's kind of like the Lexus TX.

Yes.

It was like the TX.

The same world.

The TX is better though.

That's going to be a better third row.

Yeah.

Where it's luxurious.

Well these are basically, these are basically luxury minivans.

Yeah.

You want to.

Not the door.

Your kids go to a private school and you want to show up

with something that's better than a Grand Highlander.

Then you go for the TX or in this case the XT6.

But apparently.

Or.

The XT6.

The XT5.

Get next T5 because that's always been a big seller to you.

Yep.

All right, Cole next Chevy Malibu.

What the hell?

They still build the Malibu.

I have no idea.

They still build the Malibu.

If, if, look, the great thing about the Malibu is you

can go rent it anywhere.

You don't even have to go to the dealer.

You just go rent it and live with it for a few days.

Scroll down a little, Cole.

What if there was a thing, it should do like 25 years

ago.

I would have launched this car.

I thought that thing was, that must have been a

fleet-only sale for all.

the last of the Chevy sedans, except for the Corvette.

Well, that's not a sedan sports car.

But you see what I'm saying?

They're done Chevy like Ford now is done with sedan.

So you could probably get yourself

one of these at a highly discounted rate

if you really want something that is cheap transportation

that's been around.

So it's pre-sorted.

You're going to be completely invisible

because people are going to think you just

came from a rental car agency.

So started production in 2015.

Yeah, went on the launch of that.

It was a great name.

Yeah, I mean, it's a better name than car.

Malibu was a good people mover.

Like it held quite a lot of stuff and it got people around.

Next car, Cole.

QX 50.

Oh, God.

So Infiniti's also.

Infiniti and Acura are both in trouble.

You're going to have to snip.

No, you don't have to snip that, Cole.

The QX 50 is a car.

It's a car.

Didn't this have that turbo compression?

Yes.

I think it had the variable compression turbo.

Which got a big lawsuit because people

said that it didn't get the fuel economy that it was supposed

to get.

I think the QX 50, if I remember right, that's.

Or am I wrong about that?

I could be wrong.

Don't sue Infiniti.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe it was the issues with it where they could.

It was it's there's a lawsuit around that engine.

Let's leave it at that.

The QX 50, I think, is the luxury rogue.

OK.

That's that's all I have to say about that.

One more coming up.

Keep going.

The QX 55.

Yeah.

What do you have to say about that?

This is a luxury rogue with less headroom.

That's all I have to say about that.

It's a coupe version of the QX 50, right?

I'm not even sure if that's true.

I'm pretty.

I think QX 60 is a luxury pathfinder.

So if you want a luxurious rogue,

you get a QX 50 with if you want an interesting.

The one thing that is interesting about the car

is it has one of the weirdest dances

between turbo power and CVT wine.

You've got like two dueling powertrains

because like it takes some time for the CVT to spool up

and then it's fighting with the turbo

and you get this kind of weird push-pull sensation.

So if you want a weird push-pull sensation

and a luxury rogue, you can get a QX 50.

I think both infinity and Acura

are really struggling to sell cars right now.

So if you want.

They just don't have a lot of brand I don't think.

Well, hold on.

If you want a reliable sort of good car

sort of go to Acura or go to infinity

because those dealers are probably

very bereth of customers right now

and they'd love to have you come in

and buy some of these cars.

I actually think Acura has some cool stuff right now.

They do.

MDX is really good.

MDX, RDX, of course, that's it to biggest sellers

but they're still struggling with a lot of their.

I'm not sure infinity has a lot of great cars

but they do have cars.

Remember when infinity had like the really cool sedans?

Well, they had like G35, G37 for like the IPLs.

Remember the FX with the Lashark teeth?

That was awesome.

Yeah, that was something.

No, that was something.

But you could have a turbo rogue.

A luxury rogue.

You can't actually get a turbo rogue now

so I'm not sure why you'd buy this

but if you want a bigger turbo in your rogue

you get the Q-finity.

All right, Cole, what's next?

Lexus RC.

Oh, this is just long in the tooth.

Now, the RC is a very good car.

Once again, we have a sedan

but it's been around for at least 10 years

if I remember right.

I went on the racetrack in this car

because it had that kind of the RCF.

It had that kind of active rear suspension.

So I mean, the issue with the RC

was Lexus has always had a hard time selling sports cars

except for the L,

even if they had a hard time selling the LFA, I guess,

they didn't sell.

But Lexus has inevitably struggled selling sports cars.

They've done really well.

Ep. 301: Bargain Alert! Cars That Crashed And Burned This Year!

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