Episode 405 -- Jimmy Makar on Parting Ways with Dale Jarrett, Making It to the Mountaintop with Bobby Labonte
The Scene Vault Podcast
Episode 405 -- Jimmy Makar on Parting Ways with Dale Jarrett, Making It to the Mountaintop with Bobby LabonteThe Scene Vault Podcast · Jul 15, 2026
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Term
Speedway Motorsports
This refers to a company involved in running and promoting race tracks. The point here is that big racing events take a lot of organization behind the scenes.
North Wilkesboro Speedway is a famous NASCAR race track in North Carolina. The hosts are saying it got help from COVID-era funds and became important again for racing and TV coverage.
iRacing is a popular online racing game/competition where people race real tracks virtually. The segment is saying they wanted to bring the track to iRacing so it could “live on” digitally.
This phrase means the track was brought back to life in 2022. The hosts are describing how support and funding helped restart racing at North Wilkesboro.
This refers to NASCAR’s big 75-year celebration in 2023. The speaker is saying that milestone helped drive focus on what happens next for the sport and its venues.
The Indianapolis 500 is a huge, famous race in the U.S. It’s run over 500 miles at a special speedway in Indiana, and it’s a big deal for racing careers.
Howard Schnellenberger was the famous college football coach the speaker played for at Louisville. He’s mentioned because it explains the speaker’s background and connections before racing work.
“Bristol” is shorthand for a famous NASCAR race track in Tennessee. It’s known for tight racing where cars run close together and the action is intense.
Marcus Smith is a key figure in NASCAR’s modern era, closely associated with Speedway Motorsports and its track operations. The speaker lists him among influences, indicating he’s part of the motorsports ecosystem that shaped their career.
Person
Steve Swift
Steve Swift is another person the speaker credits as an influence in their racing career. He’s mentioned as part of the team of people involved in running motorsports events.
Person
Kevin Camper
Kevin Camper is one of the people the speaker says influenced their career in racing. Based on the context, he’s part of the motorsports organization side of things.
This is about bringing racing back to North Wilkesboro Speedway, a historic track in North Carolina. The “project” is basically the work to restore it and get it back on the racing map.
The Buick Grand National is a fast, performance version of a Buick from the late 1970s. It uses a turbocharged engine, which helps it make a lot of power for quick acceleration. It’s often mentioned because it was competitive in racing during that time.
In NASCAR-style racing, a black flag usually means the officials found a serious problem and the car needs to come in. Pit stops after that can decide whether you lose or recover positions.
Darlington is a well-known NASCAR race track. It’s famous for being tricky on tires and for races where rules and penalties can really change who wins.
In racing, teams use different tire brands. A “tire war” means the tire companies are fighting hard to make the fastest tires, so teams and drivers are constantly trying to get the best option.
Qualifying tires are meant to be fast for one quick session to set your starting position. They often wear out faster, so they may not work as well for the full race.
A soft tire grips the road better, which can make you faster. The tradeoff is that it usually wears out sooner than a harder tire.
Term
change one time during the race
Races sometimes limit how often you can switch tires. That forces teams to plan when to use the fast tire and when to switch back to the tire brand they’re contracted for.
“Throw a rod” is when something inside the engine breaks badly—so badly that the engine can’t run anymore. It usually means the engine is ruined and needs major repair or replacement.
Topic
Dayton 500
The Daytona 500 is NASCAR’s biggest race. If someone has experience with it, they’ve been around the sport at a very high level.
A pit crew member is the team that works on the race car during quick stops in the pits. They do things like changing tires so the driver can get back on track fast.
Dale Jarrett is a NASCAR champion who later became a TV/radio voice for the sport. In this part, they’re discussing his viewpoint on when championships happen and how teams plan for them.
It means you don’t worry too much about the entire season at once. You focus on doing your best in the next race, and that’s how you keep your championship hopes alive.
A championship is the season-long competition where drivers earn points at each race. You don’t have to win every race—you have to score well enough overall to finish on top.
Bobby Labonte is a NASCAR driver known for winning the NASCAR Cup Series championship (and for being a consistent, steady performer). In this segment, the speaker credits Labonte’s calm approach and race-team strength as key to championship contention.
In racing, “mind games” are tricks meant to throw off the other driver or team. It can be things like talking nonstop, hovering around, or trying to disrupt their practice and preparation.
Practice is the time before the race when teams try out the car and make adjustments. It helps the driver learn how the car feels and helps the crew get it ready for the actual race.
A “race car” is a car built and tuned specifically for racing. It’s set up differently than a normal street car so it can handle speed, turns, and track demands.
Person
Del Earnhardt
The host is talking about a well-known NASCAR driver (Del Earnhardt) and using his situation to make the point that bad luck or problems can happen to anyone.
A team manager in motorsports is an operations leader who coordinates the broader organization—staffing, planning, budgets, and long-term team development. It’s a step away from hands-on race-day car calls, focusing more on building the program.
A company car is a car provided by the team or employer. The point here is that the driver wasn’t driving his own personal car—this was a team/manufacturer vehicle.
“The engine has a come apart” means the engine is breaking internally. Parts can fail under stress, and if you keep driving hard, it can cause serious damage.
Larry McReynolds is a NASCAR expert who knows a lot about engines and race cars. In this segment, they’re quoting his description of what’s happening to the engine.
The NASCAR Technical Institute is a school/program connected to NASCAR that teaches technical skills for racing. It’s mentioned because the host says they got their studio around that time.
Sponsors are companies that pay for a race team and put their name on the car or team. The host is saying the timing of sponsor deals can determine whether they can race.
Term
bush car
A “bush car” is a slang term for a less well-funded race car. The host is basically saying they might have to go back to a simpler, lower-support setup if they can’t secure sponsorship quickly.
Person
DJ
“DJ” here refers to Dale Jarrett. They’re talking about whether he could drive, and how sponsorship and contracts affect who ends up in the car.
They mean a NASCAR race in Charlotte, North Carolina. The speaker is saying DJ won that race, and then the contract situation changed.
Person
Bobby Lobani
This is talking about Bobby Labonte, a well-known NASCAR driver. They’re describing his push for the top championship in the year 2000 and the competition he faced.
“Lead lap” means you’re still on the same lap as the race leader. If you’re a few laps down, you’re behind and have to catch up by gaining laps, not just by going faster in a single moment.
A pit stop is when the car pulls into the pits to get serviced, usually to change tires. How fast and when it happens can make you gain or lose positions during the race.
Pit road is the special lane along the track where the car goes to get serviced. It’s controlled and slower than the racing surface so the crew can work safely.
A lug nut is what holds the wheel onto the car. If one is missing, the wheel can become unsafe, so NASCAR can stop the driver with a penalty like a black flag and force a fix in the pits.
“Right front tire” means the front tire on the right side of the car. If something goes wrong with that wheel, it can affect how the car steers and stays stable.
Darrell Waldrop is another NASCAR driver in this race. The story here is that he was closing in on the leader, but didn’t quite catch him before the finish.
An open-faced helmet is a helmet that doesn’t cover the whole face. Drivers used them in earlier racing, but today most helmets are full-face for more protection.
A nitrous oxide system is a setup that adds extra “boost” to an engine using a special gas. It can make the car faster, but racing rules can restrict it, and that’s why it led to penalties here.
DK Orrick is the person at the center of the NASCAR penalty story. He appealed a decision, but the appeal was denied after officials found a nitrous oxide setup in his car.
The NASCAR Commissioner is a senior official who helps run NASCAR and enforce the rules. Here, that role is connected to the decision on DK Orrick’s appeal.
A “nitrous oxide bottle” is the pressurized container that stores nitrous oxide for injection. In NASCAR-era contexts, finding one on a car typically implies an illegal or rule-breaking power-adder setup, depending on the rules at the time.
A nitrous bottle is a pressurized container of “nitrous oxide.” When you activate it, it injects that gas into the engine to give a short burst of extra power.
A frame rail is part of the car’s main structure, like a strong “side beam” that runs along the length of the chassis. They routed the nitrous hardware near it.
The air cleaner is where the engine’s intake air gets filtered before going into the engine. The speaker is saying the nitrous spray was aimed into that intake area.
A solenoid is an electrically controlled switch that acts like a valve. In this context, it helps control when nitrous gets released to the engine.
Term
alternator switch
This sounds like a switch in the cockpit that the driver used to turn the nitrous on. The interesting part is that it was labeled/associated with the alternator, but it was used to control nitrous.
Rockingham is a race track where NASCAR-style events were held. The speaker is saying this nitrous plan happened at that track.
Concept
second day qualifying
Some race weekends have qualifying over more than one day. The speaker is saying this happened during a later qualifying day, which changed his strategy.
A “caution” is when NASCAR slows the cars down because something happened on track. The discussion is about trying to make sure the race finishes at full speed instead of ending while everyone is slowed down.
Daytona is a major NASCAR track in Florida. The hosts are saying the rules about race finishes under caution aren’t exactly the same there as at other tracks.
Talladega is a big NASCAR track known for fast, close racing. The hosts are noting that it’s one of the tracks where the “don’t end under caution” idea has an exception.
A “demolition derby” is a kind of event where cars crash into each other. The host is using it to say they don’t want the race to turn into a lot of reckless crashing.
Mike Joy is a well-known NASCAR announcer. The hosts are talking about how long he’s been in racing media and how impressive it is that he’s still doing it years later.
“PR” stands for public relations—roles focused on communications, media relations, and managing how an organization is presented to the public. The host is describing Mike Joy’s shift from broadcasting into a Daytona-related PR position.
LIVE
Hello, my name is Rick Houston and welcome to the scene vault podcast, your source for
all things NASCAR history, brought to you by the generosity of our Patreon, PayPal and
Venmo supporters.
Hi, I'm Jimmy Maykar and you're listening to the scene vault podcast when he decided
to go to Yates and leave, it hurt, you know, they didn't think that
you weren't as good as you needed to be for him.
He'd be over there yapping while you were trying to work on things, yeah, asking you
questions, doing this, you know, constantly badgering you and asking you about this, asking
you about that.
It's completely different when you're up there.
When you're up there, you're looking at this mass seed of competitors that you've
raced with all year long.
The day NASCAR and all of us associated in any way with NASCAR forget it's past, that's
the day we don't have any future.
Hey, I'm Greg Hoffman, executive director here at North Wilkesboro Speedway.
And my name is Rick Houston and welcome to the scene vault podcast.
Greg, it is good to see you here this afternoon and I mentioned this to you already.
I thought you'd be at home today and you're in your office.
We are a week away, a week from today, we will, the fan zone will be open, the parking
lots will be hopping.
We will be in full anticipation of the Winter World 450 just a week from the recording of
this podcast.
When we did the commemorative issue with Darlington Raceway back in 2019, I mentioned
to Kerry Tharp and I was kind of joking, you know, obviously I knew this wasn't the
case, but I told Kerry, I said, what are you guys so busy for?
I mean, you guys work one weekend a year, maybe two, you know, and what are you so
spun out about?
And I don't think Kerry thought too much of that.
The monumental effort that it does take, it's constant physical and mental bandwidth
to make this happen at such an executed a high level like Speedway Motorsports and,
you know, in our, in our other tracks on the NASCAR circuit do, it is the amount of
teamwork and effort and planning, again, both mental and physical is just you just really
until you're in the grind of it.
I don't think, you know, I don't think you can appreciate it.
What it takes to pull off a NASCAR Cup Series level event.
With all that being said, because you have all the free time in the world right now,
you have agreed to sit in as co-host of the SeenVault podcast this week in North
Wilkesburg Speedway.
I'm really, really excited to say has agreed to sponsor a couple of our releases
over on YouTube.
I truly appreciate that support.
Greg, the first episode came out this week on BlueMax Racing.
I've been so excited about it.
I've texted you two or three times with with view updates.
It has done extraordinarily well, numbers wise.
And I, you know, I'm tickled with that just for our sake, obviously, but also
because I hope it makes a good impression on you guys.
For certain, you know, that speaks to the quality of your product and your show,
but it also speaks to the passion of the fan base.
When you you've got shows that that are that mention North Wilkesburg Speedway or
that history.
So again, it's a testament to you and what you've built and Steve along the way,
but again, the passion of our fans and their love for North Wilkesburg Speedway.
Well, just wait till you see what I got up my sleeve for next week.
I love it.
I love surprises.
Well, you know, in all seriousness, you know, we're, we're working together
sponsorship wise, but regardless of that, I would like to say, and I'm not
blowing smoke just because it's you or not because of your position or whatever.
I'll say this to anybody, anywhere, anytime.
I've said it many times on the podcast.
I'd just like to say that what you and your team have accomplished at North
Wilkesburg Speedway in the last several years is nothing short of an outright
miracle. And I can speak to that with a little bit of authority because I live
in this area and I don't pass North Wilkesburg Speedway every day, but I pass
it often enough to know what kind of condition it was in.
And Greg, it was gone.
It was gone.
But there were so many people that that held hope that, that, you know,
that kept the embers burning, you know, people like Terry Parsons and Ronald
Queen along the way, all those years trying to keep it going, you know, had
racing in 2010 and unfortunately didn't continue.
And then, you know, another extended period period of dormancy.
But again, people like that that did not let this place go that had, you know,
had, you know, Terry had been in her heart and mind and, you know, Ronald
from a junior Johnson perspective and just his love and passion for Wilkes
County in general. And, you know, they led the charge and kept that kept that
fire stoked and then, you know, started gathering the support that was needed.
And to your point, I say it all the time, the string of miracles that had to
happen. Yeah. Every one of them along the way is its own story and its own
miracle. And those got strung together. More support happened from, you know,
from locals, from state and nationwide and, you know, within the industry and
within our company. And, you know, this is all also building up towards a
COVID pandemic and, you know, all the challenges that that faced.
And then the backside of that coming out with the impact of tourism industries
and the impact that had there. And, you know, you had some COVID relief funds
that were the catalyst that North Carolina put towards racetracks and
North Wilkesboro Speedway was one of the beneficiaries. But, you know,
really, you know, all those, you know, Ronald and Terry and on
from state and local politicians, but Dale Jr., Dale Earnhardt Jr. and
Marcus Smith, you know, certainly the eye racing component of this, it really
was Dale's heart to just capture this for eye racing and virtually have this
place live on. And then through COVID, when the drivers weren't racing,
needed somewhere to go. That track was used for the Fox broadcast and the
drivers raced virtually at North Wilkesboro and that did well. And then,
again, as I mentioned, those COVID relief funds coming out of that. And then
we had race track revival in 2022. Not really knowing what the future beyond
that was going to be. And again, that was so wildly supported. And lo and
behold, the sport and Marcus and our company at Speedway Motorsports
recognize the importance of NASCAR 75th anniversary in 2023 and looking for a
place to put the All-Star Race and what better place to pay homage and honor
the roots of this sport than where it all started here at North Wilkesboro
Speedway. So, a long-winded way of saying lots of miracles that came to
you where we are. Fast forward from that revival year in the first All-Star
Race. Rick, it feels like we're just getting back, but next weekend's
Winter World 450, that'll be five major events that have taken place here at
North Wilkesboro Speedway since racing's returned.
Well, I will say this. I don't know. We are the Scene Vault podcast, and so I
would not know a thing about what it's like to try to resurrect and bring
attention to a brand that is defunct. I wouldn't know a thing about how hard
that is in the difficulties that you face and all that. North Wilkesboro
story gives me hope. That's a big deal.
It's hope is the most important thing. It's hope and perseverance. You know,
you had so many that still hoped and believed, but it's that perseverance
to never give up. You know, so many people said it'll never happen, never
happen, never happen, and just persevering and one day at a time, the one
foot in front of the other against all odds to persevere. And again, miracles
can happen. And I believe in the Lord upstairs, and I know there's no
mistakes and there's no coincidences. And, you know, there was a string of
miracles that were orchestrated to make all this happen.
Keep talking because everything you're saying right now, I need to hear.
One of the things that I love, that I love about journalism at its core is
that in journalism, everybody has a story. You have a story about how you
first wound up in NASCAR, but then about how you wound up at North Wilkesboro.
So tell me a little bit about your background.
Absolutely. And, you know, to piggyback your point, it's all about
relationships. And, you know, I mean, it's where I got to, you know, to
where I'm at, both from a, I grew up in a small town called Newburgh, Indiana,
outside Evansville on the southern part of Indiana, right across the Ohio
River from Owensboro, Kentucky, which of course is a huge racing hotbed and the
wall trips and greens and Jeremy Mayfield. So I've always had that passion
for racing and motor sports and Indianapolis 500 was a big deal and in our
household growing up and so had the fortune of playing college football at
University of Louisville for legendary coach Howard Schnellenberger. So that was
from 93 through 97. Had a lot of great memories and moments there and great
stories playing for coach Schnellenberger and got done and trying to
figure out what I wanted to do with my life and have a career still trying to
play a little bit of professional football along the way. My middle
brother had married a girl from Bristol who had some access to the race in
1998, the night race, met Jeff Byrd at that race. We hit it off immediately from
sports and racing and so a couple months later, as we stayed in contact, he
got an opening in the entry level role in the marketing and sales department and
got hired and have been at Bristol now over 27 years and seen so many cool
things and iconic moments and learning from Jay Byrd and Jerry Caldwell and the
Bristol team in addition to all the influences of Marcus Smith and Steve
Swift and Kevin Camper and on down the line with our Speedway Motorsports
teams, Jessica Fickenshire of course, as we've worked closely together these
last four or five years on this North Wilkesboro project. So where Wilkesboro
came into the picture is I started hearing the rumblings and hearing that
there may be some plans for some racing. Shortly, short time later, Marcus
appeared on Dale Jr.'s podcast and stoked the fires even further about Wilkesboro
and I reached out to Jessica and Marcus and said, Hey, I don't know where I fit
on this project. Just know that I'm interested. I just want to help out in
any way that I possibly can. I'll clean trash. I'll do whatever. I just want
to be involved. I have a passion and a love for history in general. Certainly
sports history. I love building and renovation and so what better way to
kind of combine all those passions than to join the team that brought back
North Wilkesboro Speedway. So have been on that team now for five years and
then the executive director since roughly April of last year leading into
that last All-Star race and then leading the efforts through the first
points race in 30 years for the Window World 450.
Fantastic. Now, I do want to go back and you mentioned pro football. Were you
drafted free agent? How did that work?
Free agent dealt with some lingering injuries. I was a four-year letterman,
three-year starter at Center. University of Louisville had a great career, had
some back and shoulder stuff that lingered. So wasn't medically clear, did
get some tryouts. I played some arena football and that was that time that I
was in my mind. Do I want to try to this grind again to maybe get into an NFL
camp the following year as when I met Jay Bird and he's like, if you want to
stop beating your head against other grown men and you want to get a real
job in motor sports, come back and talk to me and we'll see what we can do
together. With all that being said, it is time to talk about one of my favorite
events that we do of the year. Every year in conjunction with the race at North
Wilkesboro, we have a breakfast for our listeners and for our past interview
guests, the two mesh and there's no line of demarcation. There's no autograph
table that you have to reach across. It's literally sitting together, talking,
sharing stories. Our listeners and our past interview guests, they eat it up.
They eat it up. I think there may be a little junior Johnson inspired
breakfast amongst friends with some some pork products and a side of eggs. I'm
sure it was with some junior Johnson influence, but I love what you're doing
around that breakfast and you know, you and I brainstormed ideas of how we can
partner together on that and maybe even do some things at the Speedway in the
future. So let's keep talking, but I love what you're doing around that event as
well. Well, this year, as always, it's going to be at the breakfast time and
Johnsonville, North Carolina, just off exit 82 on I 77 Friday, July 17th.
They'll start at 9 a.m. The only cost is the cost to your meal. And if you're one
of our listeners and you're sitting with one of our past interview guests,
pick up their check to if you plan on coming, let me know so I can give the
restaurant a halfway accurate head count beforehand. Email me at rick at the
same vault dot com tag me on X. Send me a direct message on Facebook or X. Let
me know that you're coming. You know, it's not necessarily a reservation, but
it's just a way to give the restaurant a heads up on how many will be there. We
typically have about 30 show up, which is I think a great number. I think the
it's pretty evenly split on past interview guests and listeners. So it's a
pretty cold deal and it's really, really popular with everybody involved.
Well, again, I love it's the relationships we talked about earlier, the
fellowship and, you know, the, the, the community. And, you know, we've talked
about this as we've been together to capture the history of this sport and
to keep that legacy going. You know, you start really talking about people like
Bill Blair that's so influential in keeping that the early history that he
saw through his dad's career and, you know, the things we're doing to honor
that and trying to keep that going. And you're doing the same thing through
your efforts here on this podcast and your breakfast. It's all about preserving
the history of this sport and being able to have those stories and
relationships preserved for future generations and fans of all ages.
Greg, this week in the third and final installment of our interview, Jimmy
Maykar, remember saying goodbye to Dale Jarrett as the driver for Joe Gibbs
Racing, saying hello to DJ's replacement, Bobby Labani. And what it was
like to sit at the head table at the Winston Cup Awards banquet. And that
view, let's just say that he was much more impressed with the view from the
head table than he was back in the crowd somewhere. For whatever reason, that
seems to be a better view. I'll say this nugget. So, you know, I did get my
Bristol role in that timeframe, but I was, I had hundreds of resumes and my
dream job would have been working for Coach Gibbs. You know, I was still a big
300 pound lineman at the time and to probably really wanted to be a pit crew
member and could not get my foot in the door doing that. So God had other plans
for me, but the Coach Gibbs thing would have been a dream come true as
a, you know, 21, 22 year old, uh, recent college graduate.
Well, you know what? Jimmy Maykar listened to the podcast now. So he may
hear you say that. And I know he's retired now. Don't let that dream
down. Don't let that dream down. You can still go.
still lug that, uh, gas can over the, over the wall. You can still do that.
Not quite as quick as I was in my 20s.
Then in our second segment, we're going to dig into the October 5th, 1978
issue of Grand National scene. Darrell Walker thrashes the field at North
Wilkesboro for the first 380 laps pits and then pits again after being black
flagged for missing lug nut, which hands the victory to Kelli Arbora and
junior Johnson. DK Oric loses his appeal over a nitrous oxide system that
was discovered on his car, falling a really bad accident. Darlington,
despite his insistence at the time that that system was inoperable. Now,
you, you'll know what I'm talking about at the time when you listen to the
rest of the show. And then junior Johnson comes to the rescue for reporter
Mike Mulhern. And Greg, just as a reminder, this show is not affiliated
in any way with American city business journals, owner of the same brand.
So you have a good run with Dale. He's your original driver, but then he decides
to move on to Robert. How difficult was that?
Yeah, difficult to say the least. It, um,
you know, I'm kind of in it sinking swim. I'm, you know, made the commitment
and that's what we're going to, you know, and then when he decided to,
to, uh, to go to Yates and leave, that was, it hurt, you know,
know, made you think that you weren't as good as you needed to be for him.
You know, so it was, it was disappointing that I was, didn't put something
together with that, that he felt like he could grow and win and get to where he
was trying to get to. Um, so yeah, it was, it was a tough time. That was it.
That was, that was the time that back in the beginning and that meeting with
Joe and Patty and I talked about what happened when things got tough.
We were at that time and then how was that going to, how was that going to
play out in our personal relationship and the relationship with family and all
that? And I was, it's easy for me to sit here and say that, you know, I was
extremely disappointed and, you know, that he was wanting to go somewhere else.
And, uh, so, um, and I do remember one of the things that happened right about
that same time. We went to Wilkesboro and that year was one of the big tire war
battles between Hoosier and Goodyear. We were strictly Goodyear guys. Um, we
got a Goodyear deal and so we couldn't play the game depending on what was,
what was the best tire at the time. So we went up to Wilkesboro and, and Hoosier
had a really fast qualifying tire, really soft tire. And so it went away really quickly.
They wouldn't go race that well, but it was going to be, be fast for qualifying,
but we couldn't go to it, which obviously the people that were, weren't on deals
took the fastest qualifying tire and then changed. We were allowed to change one
time during the race and so they'd go back to Goodyear's to run the race.
Well, we, um, long story short, we did not make the race the first time I've ever
missed a race and by like 31 hundredths or something like that.
Really? Yes. Where was that?
Wilkesboro. Wilkesboro.
I had forgotten y'all missed her.
We missed the race and so did Neil Bonnet in the Raymock car. Butch Mock and Bob Hilly.
And when was this?
This was 94. Was it, was it Neil?
No, it wouldn't have been Neil.
It wouldn't have been Neil. I forget who was driving for them at the time,
but it was the, it was the Raymock guys.
Okay. All right. Anyway, there was three or 14 that went home and they were in the
same boat as we were. They couldn't, they had a Goodyear deal, couldn't. So anyway,
we missed the race. That's, I don't know, Neil's leaving. We missed the first race ever and like,
it's much worse. Well, we drove back and forth to Wilkesboro because it's only
from home. It's an hour change up the road. So I'm driving from the racetrack by myself back home
and I'm devastated, disappointed, this all kinds of emotional feelings going through.
And I'm riding down this highway 115, this little back road coming back down towards
Statesville. Cars started knocking like, what is that? It's getting worse and worse and worse.
And I'm listening. I said, that sounds like a back on rod. Surely this thing isn't going to
throw a rod on me now. Down that. So I just put my foot on the floor,
this long straightaway section. Boom. Thing blows up.
And then I would assume that this is a, this is a decent car because. Oh yeah. This is,
this is one of my company cars. Okay. This is a company car. Yeah. Pontiac at the time. I was mad.
I was going to blow it up. If it, if it was going to blow up, it was going to, you were going to make
it. Yeah. And it did. So I was up, I started coasting and there's a driveway down the end of
this little straight section of road and I pulled in the driveway like, okay, now what am I going to
do? I don't even think so. I think I had a cell phone at that time maybe. And I think I know I
did. And so I'm sitting there looking at this thing and van, this van pulls up. Hey, you need a ride.
Look up where it was. Butch Mock and Bob are really in that crowd. They had left the racetrack
or drive home. So I jumped in their van and we went down the road and we just kind of
helped each other be sorry, feel sorry for ourselves because we missed the race and,
and, uh, and so that was, that was how that weekend ended. Next weekend was Charlotte
for the 500. And so we go to Charlotte. What do you think happens there?
Lo and behold, we win the race.
So you go from the low of lows for me to not the high of highs, but a high, you know,
still have the situation with Dale. Now remember, you have to go up and go through the sweets and
go to Humpy's office and do the media thing up through the sweets. And I remember sitting there,
I might have been in Humpy's office, I'm not sure. And, uh, and I remember looking over at Dale,
you know, he's all smiles on like that. I'm said, you still want to leave and go to race somewhere
is this? Hello.
So, uh, I don't know why I normally won't say things like that or just yet, but I did. I just,
it was, it was there. So, um, obviously he did go and great success, you know, where he went,
but that became a rivalry in, in of itself, you know, that, that I was determined. I was going to
have our cars, you know, beat him in his car. And, uh, it was an internal rivalry that I had,
that I had for myself to prove that, you know, we had good race cars and we could, uh, we were as
good as anybody else. So, yeah, but he still beat you to the championship. He did the first time.
He did the first time. That was hard to swallow. That one was hard to swallow because, you know,
we definitely wanted to be the first to the championship, but, uh, you know, we're going to
both, both be able to accomplish this and that, you know, that, that goal. So that was, that was
kind of cool. Looking back at it now, it was kind of cool. So at what point did you know that this
was a stable gig that it was going to be around for a while? Because basically from the start of your
career to Joe Gibbs, you bounced around and that's just standard for anybody who's ever worked in
the sport. Right. For one reason or another, money troubles, team owners leave and drivers change
and whatever. At what point did you get the sense that this was different, a
different organization, a different field, different, just a different way of doing things?
Um, like I said, that meeting with Joe, that very first meeting with him,
I, I sent something different. I wasn't sure exactly how it was going to play out, but I sent
something different about him and he followed through with all of his, his ideas and thoughts
on team building and teamwork and, and competition. Um, the next several years it, it, it played out
that I saw in him what he told me his beliefs and his way of, of, of building a team were. So,
that gave me a lot of confidence that this was the right place to be. Really never had a thought
that it was not, even through the change in drivers with Dale to Bobby, it, it never really,
I never really thought that there'd be a reason to leave here. Joe was giving me everything I wanted,
everything I needed. You know, if, if we needed X, Y or Z, you just go to him and tell him you needed
this and he'd find a way to find money or do whatever he needed to do to, to be able to get
it for you. And, and so he never really said no. Um, he trusted your judgment and so what more
do you need? And you never doubted his resolve or was there ever a point where he, in those earlier
years especially, was there ever a point where you got the sense that it might be if he, not really
because, because in the early years, quite a ways up through the first, those first 10 years
really or eight years, um, he was still coaching football. So he wasn't at the race shop all the
time. He would come in from time to time and in and out, in and out. But not long after we first
started the team, um, you know, he told me that, that his son, JD was graduating from school and
he had a couple of buddies that he wanted to, to bring with him. And he said, I'm going to send
them down there. He said, find something for them to do. They want to be involved with the
race team. So find things that they can do. And that said, well, what can they do? They, not a
turn a wrench. They know how to like, uh, fabricate. They knew how to weld. No, no, they don't know
anything straight out of college. They don't know anything about anything. Okay. So, uh, so when
they came down, um, JD, um, got to work in more in the administrative side of the team, which
I was having to do at that time, along with being the crew chief, I was doing all of the
administrative work also. So that he took that, that job and kind of ran with it. And through
the years, he became the guy that, you know, that ran Joe Gibbs racing on a day to day basis. And so,
and JD, just like that, this great guy, great guy, love him. And, uh, and, you know, we, we
worked together great. He, we talked things over. We, um, you know, I needed something that
make the race car faster to get, to get better, you know, go talk to him and he'd be good with it.
You know, so it JD had a lot to do with the early years of Joe Gibbs racing success and from the
administrative standpoint and getting things done. So, uh, and then when Joe quit football
completely and came in, he, he and JD kind of shared those, those, um, those roles. Um, and Joe
was a more active part of it. And Joe, Joe's a hands-on guy. I mean, if you had a problem on
Sunday at the racetrack Monday morning at 67 o'clock, he was in the shop trying to figure
out, you know, why, what, what, what happened? How long did it take you to trust JD? Because
a lot of bosses will bring their family members in and the family members
don't contribute. And at worst, they hinder the process. How long did it take you to accept JD
as a coworker? A good question. You know, when he first came, he also, as I said earlier, the
Dayton 500, he was a pit crew member. You know, he was athletic and he was quarterback, um, in
college. And so, you know, he, he had the abilities. He, he, and he was a racer kind of guy. He liked
racing and like cars. And, uh, so it, uh, from that aspect, he, he, he got it. He, he kind of
understood the sport and what was going on. Um, he just needed experience to go with it. And
I guess the biggest thing was to me was he never gave me the impression that it was his way or
no way. It was always, he always asked a lot of questions, tried to understand what you were
trying to come to him with and understand what needed to be done and why. Um, so it was, it was
never one of those things where you thought, you know, he's just got the right name and, you know,
he doesn't have a clue what he's doing. He, he spent the time learning the business and understanding
the business before he really tried to make any decisions. That says a lot about him. Yeah. When
DJ left, how much parole did you take in selecting a replacement? It's interesting about that.
Is, uh, Bobby was Dale's suggestion. Really? Yeah. Yeah. He, uh, he, he, he was Dale's
selection. He said, you need to look at Bobby LaVonny. He said, he's, he's pretty darn good.
He said, and he, and he drives and thinks a lot like I do. He said, I think you too.
Wow. Okay. So, uh, so that's when we bought Bobby and then asked him if he would be interested
in coming and drive for us at the time. He was with Bill Davis, driving the 22 car there. And,
and he accepted the offer to come, come drive the car for us. And Dale was right. I mean,
I don't think, I don't feel like we missed the beat as far as Driver Crew Chief relationship
goes. Bobby was a lot like Dale. He, he understood race cars because he worked on his own cars all
his lives. He was similar to what Dale did. Dale grew up building his own cars, working on his own
car. So he had a bit of an understanding of shocks and springs and bars and suspension and things
like that. And Bobby was a lot the same way. So we could sit and talk about race cars and
ideas and thoughts and that kind of thing. So it really didn't, really didn't, uh,
wasn't much of a new learning process to learn a curve. DJ, when is the championship in 99?
And then in 2000, you guys, and again, Bobby said the 99 championship, he sat
way in the back of the room. And I think he said he was behind the post and, you know, he said,
I just, I mean, these seats aren't good enough. I want the better ones next year. What was your
viewpoint going into the year 2000? Well, it was, it was very similar to 88, 89.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know, um, you know, DJ wins championship in 88. We, I would argue
race to race and competitive wise in 88, we were better than we were in 89.
If you look at the statistics, we, we, I think we performed better in 88 than we did in 89.
And so not to win a championship with all that performance was very disappointing, but very,
very, um, encouraging and motivating to, you know, obviously they'll want championship for
we did. So that had a personal thing for me, but I also saw that we had the ability that it was
there. It, you know, we just missed it this, this year. So it was very similar to going into 89
season, going into 2000 season. It was like, we, we, we can do this. There's no doubt in my mind,
we can, we can challenge for a championship and win a championship. And, uh, so there was a, there
was a lot of, um, uh, enthusiasm. Um, there was a lot of, uh, belief in what we could do inside
the race team. Uh, so we headed into 2000 this hard after that we could win the championship this
year. At what point that season did you feel like this might actually happen?
No, I don't know that I ever really thought about it. It was like a one race at a time thing. It was
this weekend you show up and you win a race. You got to try to win this race. You got to try to win
this race. And, uh, it wasn't till really late in the season that it, you know, was races started
doing Ling and number left that it, it actually was something that you put in your head that
it's a possibility up till then it's just you're looking forward and each week is another challenge
and you just keep, you keep focused on what's going to happen next week when we got to do to
win the race next week. Um, so there really was no thought in my mind of, of the championship
was back in the back of your head, you know, running for the championship is one thing,
but by the same token, the guy running second in points, he's won a couple or five or six or seven.
Did you ever hear footsteps? Oh, if you let, if you let yourself, okay, if you let yourself,
I mean, you knew, you knew you were up against the best, but again, I felt like we were
in line with them. We were as strong as them. I thought Bobby was on his game as good as down
was. And I thought our race team was, was strong enough in all aspects to, to get the job done.
And so I think the cool thing was, for me, it was, that's who I would want to beat to win a
championship. That's the guy. If, if, you know, if you beat anybody, it's a big deal, but to
beat the guy that's won all those championships that, that, you know, you've beaten the best.
You guys were parked right next to each other. And I know, I mean, I wasn't there obviously,
but I know that there were mind games probably. Oh gosh.
Tell me a good mind game story. Oh me. Well,
one good mind game that our heart was good at is in practice to go out and get behind you
and just mess with you. Just, just, you know, just poke at you and not let you work on your race car.
He was dogging you all the time. In the garage, it would be, he'd be over there
yapping while you're trying to work on things. Yeah. Asking you questions, doing this, you know,
constantly badgering you and asking you about this, that. So it, it was fun.
You know, I'm used, I'm used to that in a way from the late 80s situation with rest of your day.
So it's not that unusual to me. So it's just, it was, it was kind of fun to this,
just to be able to do that little back and forth, badgering in the garage and to watch
the, what goes on with the race, on the racetrack, you know, between two drivers.
Bobby was cool and calm. He didn't let things upset him. That was a good thing about him.
He kept his head on 90% of the time. He was, he was cool and smooth and didn't let our heart
get in his head very much. Well, I would assume, and again, I wasn't there, but I would assume
that at some point he made some kind of comment like, boys, when you, when you get to seven
championships, then, you know, did he ever remind you of how many other than the patch on his
uniform that said seven top champion? I never, I never remember doing that. I never remember
doing that. Those guys carried an aura about themselves. They didn't have to do a lot of
talking. I mean, there was a little bit, but they didn't have to say a whole lot, you know,
everybody that was been there for any length of time knew the history and knew what they were
capable of doing at any given moment. So the aura, that's, that's a good word. That's a really
good way to put that, you know, now we'll tell you this when we did end up winning the championship.
The one thing Aaron Hart did tell me, he was mad about this and
the previous New Year's, New Year's of 2000, Taylor had been born maybe a year before,
maybe even more than that. I'm not sure. Anyway, Patty, my wife had bought her, bought them a
baby shower gift. Your wife. My wife, Patty, had bought them a baby shower gift for Taylor. And
I don't know. We never got it to him, never got it to him, never got it to him. And we were riding
around on New Year's Day, Patty and I were, and this thing was in the back of my car. And
we were over there closer and Hart lived at the time. And I said, let's go there and see if he's
home and get this bag on the package out of the back seat. You know, it's been X amount of time since,
you know, she's been born. I said, let's see if he's home and give it to him.
He said, okay, so we go over to his house and knock on a door. There he comes the door. I said,
hey, here's a baby shower gift for Taylor. We've been holding for X amount, well, a year now.
So I appreciate it. Appreciate it. He said, well, y'all doing, I said, we're just riding around.
He said, why don't you come on in and have lunch with us? He said, the family's all here. We're
going to have New Year's, traditional New Year's lunch, you know, the typical black IPs, greens,
all the, you know, the things you do traditionally. Well, when we won that championship, we went in,
had lunch with him, spent a couple hours there and it's hanging out. We won that championship.
I think we were in New York. He said, you stole my good luck. You got my good luck from that,
that lunch we had on New Year's Day. He said, you're not coming back and eating again.
What was the view from the head table like? That was awesome. It's, you know,
when you sit for all those years in the audience honoring the head table, you know, you've got
a view that becomes a little familiar, you know, you might be sitting at a different table,
but it's the same view, you know, it's completely different when you're up there. When you're up
there, you're looking at this mass sea of competitors that you've raced with all year long and
when you see the faces of all these people, it just brings back memories of different
things during the course of the year that went on. It's kind of hard to explain. It's just,
it's different. It's so different. You almost, I don't know, I had a body experience, but it's a,
it's just an experience. It's unlike anything I've ever done or seen, you know, to be able to look
back into this audience of people looking at you.
And plus it's the first one. Yeah. Yeah. So you don't know, you don't know what to expect.
Most years, the champion is celebrated throughout the year. Get the first pit choice, get the first
garage stall. People refer to you as the defending champion. That didn't happen. I don't want to
over dramatize it, but it really kind of robbed you guys of that recognition to a certain extent.
Am I overselling it? No. You're right. If you look at it from a selfish,
self-centered perspective, but I look at it from what was lost, you know, the very first race of
that upcoming season when we were going to be celebrating and how it affected everyone in
that garage area one way or another. It's incredible that the way that, that dynamic was that
it's hard to even put it in the words because it affect everybody in different ways,
but the incredible sense of loss and the reality of what could happen at any given time and any
given day. But yes, it made it very hard to celebrate anything all that year for us. It just,
and it, and it, I believe it was very hard on certain drivers more so than others, although it
affected all of them. I think some of them, it really affected to the point where their performance
was affected because of it. And that was kind of my next question. The year 2000,
I mean, was, I don't want to say worse, but nice car loss drivers in each of the three national
divisions, but it was also, that kind of thing don't happen to me. I think the sense was there
in the year 2000, but 2001 hit, it happened to Del Earnhardt. And if it can happen to him,
it can happen to anybody. Listen, we've been talking for two hours.
Oh, good gracious.
Almost two and a half. So let's wind up with this and I'm not going to ask about, you know,
yeah, you're only halfway through.
Yeah, not going to ask about, yeah, whatever. I'm sure we could have some stories about that,
but you did wind up stepping into a management role at the end of 2002.
All right, that's what it says on the internet.
Yeah, years are getting farther apart.
Yeah. What went into that decision?
The fact that we were now wanting to grow as a race, even have the ability to grow as a race
team, we had gone to two cars, you know, we brought Tony in and started a second team here
just recently in the late 90s. And I didn't want to be a crew chief all my career. You know,
I saw a bigger thing and us going into a multi car, being a multi car operation to continue to
grow and be successful like we needed to be to perform against the Hendricks and the Roush
and folks like that. So I knew that I needed to put my goals in a different place and that would be
in a team manager type, competition director type role to help build the future,
necessarily just be a crew chief. So I thought at that point, it was either do that or continue
to be a crew chief the rest of my career, one or the other. So it was time, it was at that time,
it was, I made the decision to go ahead and stop crew chiefing and take on that role.
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Fall 1994, the second go round in the Hoosier good year tire war is in full swing.
Hoosiers got a great qualifying tire at North Wilkesboro. Joe Gibbs Racing has a deal with
good year so they can't use Hoosiers. One thing leads to another and Dale Jarrett fails to qualify.
Greg, you can just imagine what that did to that program at that time.
Well, you know, so many, many levels to that, right? And just the frustration
build up to that and really coming to a head in that decision making process. And, you know,
certainly we know where the, where all the chips fell in that, but just, just a huge development
here coming out of that race at North Wilkesboro Speedway. Jimmy Maykar, you can just imagine
his mindset as he is driving home. DJ has already told the team that he is leaving at the end of
the year to join Robert Yates Racing. The DNQ certainly doesn't help matters at all, at least
not when it comes to Jimmy's mindset. And on the way home that night, I had to laugh because when
it rains at pores, his company car starts making pretty ominous sounds. This is not his personal
car. This is not the car that I first drove to North Wilkesboro Speedway myself. This was a nice
car. This was a company car. This was a manufacturer's car. So what does Jimmy do? He hits a straight
away and he matches the gas. And that engine has, as Larry McReynolds would say, that engine has
a come apart. Motor don't let go. He doesn't puke that thing all over Kington Cubs. Obviously,
Jimmy handled that situation the wrong way. When your car starts making those kinds of
noises, everybody knows that the remedy is to just turn the radio off to drown it out.
Or do the Ace Ventura drive with your head out the window?
Here's the post script to that story. Jimmy and DJ, they don't even make the race at North
Wilkesboro, but one week later, they go to Charlotte and they win. I love those kinds
of turnaround stories. Now, you have played football at an elite level. So surely you've had
moments like that that Jimmy describes here. What is your outhouse to the penthouse turnaround
story other than North Wilkesboro? I didn't even take that one. I am going to give you a football
example here. So the year was 1996. We were the University of Louisville was playing the Michigan
Cardinals for homecoming thinking that's going to be an easy game. Game doesn't go as planned in
the first half. We're down 14 to nothing. And as we're walking through the tunnel, you can hear
the Michigan State players talking about their post game plans and parties and things and thinking
this one's in the bag and this this little school, you know, that's, I guess we were
Conference USA at the time, you know, messing with this big 10 football team, they were just
going to roll us over. Well, half time adjustment made. We bring in a freshman quarterback named
Chris Redmond, who hasn't hasn't gotten many snaps in the year. He is at the time was one of the top
quarterback recruits ever. And Louisville, he's a Louisville guy. So he landed there. There was a
senior that was playing ahead of him. Chris gets in the game. The other adjustment we had an all
American cornerback named Sam Madison, he played with the Dolphins and the Giants for many years
at an all pro level. Coach put him in the the Dion Sanders two way roll, ran a couple of goes down
the sidelines. Redmond hits him tie ball game early in the third quarter. And we go on to roll
30 to 20 and beat the Spartans and Nick Saban. So my bragging rights are that I want to know
against Nick Saban. That is fantastic. Now, here is how time kind of has a way of moving right
along. Jimmy told a story about how Del Jarrett suggested Bobby Lobani as his replacement at
Joe Gibbs Racing. Immediately, my mind went to the interview that I did with Bobby for the podcast
in my mind. It was maybe three or four years ago. And I looked and it's going on seven years
since Bobby and I sat down at his house. And that should have been a clue right there.
We didn't get our studio until February, March of 2022. We got the studio at the night. What was
then the NASCAR technical institute. And this was even before our YouTube channel. And the interview
with Bobby was not video. It's not on our YouTube channel. So the older you get, Greg, the more
time has of slipping by and moving faster. I've had that situation. My wife's been able to join
me here at Wilkesboro and help out. And I've been telling stories over this, you know, five-year
span of bringing the track back. And I'll say, oh, that was just, you know, two years ago and no,
it'll be five. And even back further, oh, with our kids and family now, my son's 19. He's been
helping Ronald Queen on the operations team this summer and weed eating and painting and facility
maintenance. And my daughter is a recent graduate. And we'll tell stories about a vacation. And you're
thinking that's four or five years ago. And it'll be my son will chime in. And he's like, Dad, I was
nine to your point. It's the longer the older we get, the faster time flies. And even that sense
of time gets great and muted. So just it's just a reminder. I try to tell myself all the time,
live in the moment the best you can and enjoy, enjoy every second. Here's Bobby Lobani from
back in the old days, back in the prehistoric days here on the same vault podcast. Here's Bobby
on Talking to Dale Jarrett. I'll go here if you go there. As the year went on in 94, of course,
we changed from Pontiac, from Ford's to Pontiacs, got the Rusty's old Pontiacs, went that route.
And then towards the, I think Maxwell house was, you know, at some point in time there throughout
there, like, all right, we're bowing out of the sport. And so Bill was talking, you know, trying to
get negotiation or trying to get sponsors right and left. And so we get to, you know,
towards the end of the year. And again, it's like, well, I'm not sure I guess I have to go back driving
a bush car again. And because we're not, you know, I don't know where the sponsorship is going to
land here, if we're going to get it in time, because it was, you know, delayed, delayed,
delayed, delayed, delayed. And, you know, in due time, and understandably so. And so I just had to,
you know, I wanted to stay there, but I also had to look out for me on this part of it over here.
So it's a long story short, we go to Phoenix and run the race. And so I'm sitting on a,
I'm sitting on a workbench after the race is over, and I'm just sitting there after, you know,
whatever, I think we didn't have a good day. I'm sitting on the workbench. And I look in front
of me, you know, 20 yards, 30 yards, something like that, 40 yards, and I see Coach Gibbs. And I,
now I'd seen Coach Gibbs early in the year doing a, I had, for Pontiac, I had been to Florida
for a, he spoke at a conference and I was there for that. And I'm just there,
you know, I'm, I'm just hanging out. I'm, you know, does he even have a clue? The clue I am,
I have no idea. But I'm not there because of him. I'm just there because of Pontiac made me go,
and he was just having to be the speaker because he's GM, I think it was. So anyway,
I'm sitting there and he looks at me from across the way, you know, like yardage away.
He goes, I need your number. You know, he, I could read his lips. I need your number.
And I go, could you get a marker fast enough? Well, I mean, to be honest with you, I, I mean,
I honestly, I thought for surely he's talking to somebody behind me, because I'm like, they just
not wanting my number. Why not my number? So anyway, I want your number, you know. So about that time,
Jimmy Makar walked up and said, Hey, Joe, what's your number? I went, okay, so I flew home, gave
him my number. So I flew home, I got, we took the radar home, flew home, commercial, get home,
went to bed. He calls about noon times is like, Hey, I didn't wake you up. I said, no, sir,
I'm wide awake, man. I am so sleepy. And so anyway, we, we, you know, so that was kind of the
conversation. Now we kind of worked on this in the back story a little bit because DJ and I
worked on it on the, he was trying to go to Yates. Okay. And he was trying to leave them go to Yates.
And I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do. So throughout all this, it was crazy.
So this is something you'd actually talk to DJ about? Oh, we talk every day. Really? Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. So we were talking every day on, we were talking every day on,
can he get out? Can I I, can he get out? Can I get out of my contract? Can he get
out of his contract? And I'm sitting there, you know, I don't know if I can, he don't know if he
can, but he wants to drive the ADA car or 28 car. And I mean, I had Robert call me a couple,
once or twice and like, Hey, if I can't get DJ, you want to drive this car? You know, I'm like,
Well, of course I would. But yeah, I've got a contract and if Bill doesn't, you know, get a
sponsor, you know, can I still get out? I mean, I, if he didn't have a sponsor, so I'm not trying
to get out. So you were still under contract? Yeah, I'm not trying to get out just to get out.
I'm trying to figure out what to do in case he doesn't get a sponsor. So, but Robert's like,
I remember I was in Ohio buying a new trailer for my grand national team and
at high tech and he called and he says, Hey, do you have a problem with Mac tools? I went,
Nope, I'm good with Mac tools. You get this. Yep, I'm good with that. All right, call you back.
You know, and then he wouldn't call for three weeks or not three weeks for 34 days and
I'm panicking. And then, you know, so I mean, it was like one of those things where it was
okay, if I can get out of here and drove, drive the 28, maybe you can drive this car
because DJ couldn't go until unless I had a replacement, of course, because they weren't
going to just let him go who they all hire. So they had to have somebody in the wing.
And I was like, I'd rather drive the 18 than 28 because that's a lot of pressure on that one.
And I wasn't ready. I mean, I'm my year two. So that was kind of in the works of it. So then
when coach, you know, connected, I mean, we, we kind of, I think we're just wishfully thinking
if it could go this way, they'd be great. So then it worked out where, of course,
DJ won Charlotte, but yet he still got out of his contract and I was able to get out of mine and go
there. Bobby Lobani is going after the Winston Cup Championship in the year 2000 and his closest
competitor is Deller and Hart. And of course, they'll be in there. He is going to do what he
can to mess with Bobby and the 18 team in the garage. When it came to the RCR team as a whole,
Jimmy said that they had this aura about kind of along the lines of being there, done that. Now,
you being a football guy, what was that program that you played against? High school, college,
whatever that had that elite status as a winning school. And what did it mean when you beat him?
If you ever did. Now you've mentioned one and O against this Nick Saban character,
whoever he is, whatever kind of resume he went on to have. He went on to do some things later on.
Other than him, what program? Had the fortune of playing in some amazing college football
environments, you know, the Tennessee's and Texas and Texas A&M's and, you know, the schedules that
Schnellenberger was able to put together and the influence that he had. But, you know, while this
isn't necessarily, and I'm going to, I'm going to throw a deep jab and elite program, University of
Kentucky, you know, it's an SEC program. But, you know, being a Louisville Cardinal,
when I first got there, there wasn't a UK UofL football game, you know, certainly in basketball,
but they didn't deem Louisville worthy to be, you know, to be an opponent. And so coach Schnellenberger
with his ties as a player back to UK and he bridged that to make that game happen. The first one was
in 1994, came out on the short end of that one. David Acre's legendary Eagles kicker
had a missed field goal. We lose that game. But we go back in 1995 and 1996 and have back-to-back
wins there, won on a late drive. But it's that big brother, little brother scenario, you know,
that was the first game of the year at the time. So as soon as the season ended, it was the countdown
until UK and in the weight room. So just to establish that rivalry and that tradition and to be able
to beat UK, that's the one that came to mind first in that scenario. October 5th, 1978,
issue of Grand National scene. Let's set the stage here. Daryl Walter started from the pole
position at North Wilkesboro Speedway in his dieguard racing Chevrolet and he has led, I have
to laugh, and he has led the first 381 laps. Kil Yarborough has lost three laps at some point
and Gene Granger's race lead in this issue of Grand National scene does not mention how specifically
he lost that ground. The next week's issue, I just so happen to have it. No, I do not plan to
digitize it in any way, shape, form, or fashion, but I also do have a collection of Southern motor
racing newspapers, not many, but I've got a few. The next week's issue of Southern motor racing
mentions only that Kale was very loose in the first half of the race and got way behind
and Greg Fielding's blue books doesn't mention any specifics and if scene
and Southern motor racing and Greg Fielding don't mention it, that information is not
available. Period. It's lost to time. Now, Kale somehow managed to get back in the lead circuit
with DW. He got back on the lead lap with Daryl. Three laps down. Made it up.
He got back on the lead lap with Daryl just a few laps earlier
and Kale is trying his best to chase Daryl down. The broadcast of this race is not
in Alkenes archive, but it is located in the treasure trove that is universal racing networks
online archive that is curated by Appalachian State University. So DW has blistered the field,
but does appear to be fading. Kale's coming after him and
the Daryl Waldrop machine and Waldrop would like he's going to be coming into the pits this time
and here he is. Waldrop coming down pit road. Daryl Waldrop coming down pit road. They're going
to change some tires and Kale Yarborough coming out of that fourth turn is going to take the lead
and the first lead change of the day as Kale Yarborough goes in the lead. Daryl Waldrop getting
right side tires on that turn number 88, 14, and 4-10 seconds. The pit stop was fast. He's back
up, but he's lost a lot of distance to Kale Yarborough. Wait. If you're Daryl Waldrop and
dieguard racing crew chief, buddy parrot, it gets worse. Lap 388. Daryl is black flagged for a missing
lug nut on the right front tire. That buddy parrot has just changed. Now if you're going to have to
make a late race pit stop and you're in the lead and you're fighting for the lead, the thing that
you don't want to do is miss a lug nut. I know that much about how pit stops work. You know,
the football analogy is an offensive lineman missing their block on a game winning drive.
Certainly not something you want to have happen if you're on that NASCAR pit crew. The black flag
being given to Daryl Waldrop and he is five seconds behind at that time. The black flag
given to Daryl Waldrop, that number 88. One of the inspectors over talking to buddy parrot,
the crew chief, for Daryl Waldrop. So what happened, we don't know on that change,
but they're going to change the right side. Yes, thanks. Now they left the lug nut off that car
when it went out, the inspector called it, made them bring it back. Okay, the lug nut off of that
right front, brought the black flag out and gave Kale Yarbrough even more of a cushion.
As Waldrop quickly moved back onto the speedway, but where he was about five
seconds behind a while ago, he is so more than that now. 15, 18 seconds more as Kale moves
through the traffic down off of that fourth turn. So the complexion of a race can change in just
a moment. It only takes an eyelash or two and then it changes. Here's the last lap and victory line.
Here's the white flag now going out to Kale Yarbrough. The white flag out Kale one lap away
from victory number nine for the 1978 season. He moves up that back straight away. Kale Yarbrough
in the car number 11, the junior Johnson crew watching him. He's going for his third national
championship. He comes off the fourth corner and the checkered flag flies and Kale Yarbrough wins
the 18th annual edition of the Wilkes 400. Kale who looked like he was hopelessly behind earlier
and then all of a sudden he got out in front. Then again it looked like he was not going to
take it because Waldrop was cutting that lead down lap after lap. Then they lugged and that puts
him into victory circle. That's number five at North Wilkes. It ends a two-race winning streak
here for Darrell Waldrop as Waldrop won the spring race and won last year's Wilkes 400.
Kale has was over three laps down at one time so you can see it never pays to give up. All you
have to do is keep trying, keep trying and well it might come your way and it did for Kale Yarbrough.
He moves into victory circle and the folks waiting for him there, the photographers and
all the beauty queens and we have two reporters Bobby Johns and Dick Jones. Let's go to him.
Okay Kale's getting all unhooked now and man he is all smiles. I'll tell you what we've interviewed
Kale many a time in Victory Lane this year but this has to be one of the biggest smiles that
we've ever seen on the young man from Timminsville, South Carolina space and this was one where he
stayed in the race. He got down a couple of laps at one time, never said die and just hung in there
and man she came through and I'll tell you what Kale I've seen you a lot of times in Victory Lane
but this is the biggest smile. Well Dick first of all got a good loss for a good safe race.
I'm giving up. Well you know we got around we had a chart it was about half flat for so many laps
then we tried to run on it and then we had to come in and uh we finally got the weight jacked
around like we wanted and everything fixed. This junior Johnson knows it's gonna be a really
fluid and it wasn't anybody could touch it everything just went perfect. Good year charge
and champion and valvally and Gable went for everything everything worked perfect. I'll tell
you what Kale it just goes to prove that even though you get down you shouldn't give up right?
Well we might give up but we don't give up. I'll prove that goat to show you right here today.
Okay Kale thank you so much Betty Joe you might have happy too. Betty Joe leans in
and give him a big old kiss. Man Kale said this is a double victory. Betty Joe how about this race?
Oh we're really excited we've got the greatest crew and the greatest driver in the world
and NASCAR racing is awfully good for all of us. Oh boy and she is getting dirty all over.
Kale has just made you plum filthy. Let's see Bobby can you find junior around here somewhere
we'd like to get junior Bobby here you talk to junior. Junior you know this old old beard
old years is getting that victory lane quite often right now it looked a little bit like we
didn't want to go see you there first part of the race now would you do that chance to get it working?
Well to start with we missed the setup we went one way with the weeds we didn't we took by it
out and we should have put by it in it and we also cut a tar day on the first stop then all about
130 laps we'll cut another tar down and our lap just to start the race so that put us like three
laps down and I'll tell you that's hard to come back from here but once we hit the setup on the
chassis we is about a half second quicker than anybody else and that's what I gotta give the
credit to and Kale just kept right on chucking her in there and that's what it takes to make a
winner. You know the old race car looks right straight you probably just take it home and wash
it and get it ready for the next one huh? Well I ain't anywhere I don't think that we'll run this car
anymore this year it's uh this strictly a short track car and so uh you probably won't see this
in the more this year well I tell you your crew did a fine job and Junior Johnson he always does a
good job. Bobby Allison finished third a lap down and after the race said it may have been another
of Junior Johnson's miracles Kale was all over the track at the start of the race it was obvious
what happened to Darrell he stayed out there too long on a set of tires it makes you wonder
if everybody's using the same tires and blowing everybody away Bobby Allison was always good
for a conspiracy theory especially when it came to either Richard Petty or Junior Johnson.
Special mismatched tires. We are talking grassy no conspiracy theory it wasn't reported in this
issue but in the next now I do want to get your opinion on this all right now you're in a position
of responsibility there. Mike Mulher of the Western Salem Journal was confronted by a group of people
after this race at North Wilkesboro who claimed that they worked for the track and who was there
to get Mike out of that jam Junior Johnson. Mike said Junior probably saved my life he pushed the
fans away and got me into a car and drove Kale and me out of the track I got in my car and drove
back to Winston Salem to write my story now the track president at that time was none other than
Enix daily now Enix daily was old old school and he responded by saying that one person in the room
had done some quote unquote contracting work for him and yes I saw the air quotes
and I guess the question here should be what kind of contract work was it there? Maybe some
excavating maybe some some moonshine cave excavating or something in the production
business or maybe even the the sanitation business or maybe the Wilkesboro Soprano mafia
maybe or maybe we don't need to ask questions and just let it go I would definitely drop that and
leave that one let everybody form their own conclusion what's more some sort of law enforcement
official whether it was a deputy or the sheriff there in Wilkes County apparently told buddy
parrot before the race that he had heard that there would be some trouble from outsiders
if Darrell wins the race as the person responsible for running north Wilkesboro Speedway what do you
have to say about these dastardly events that took place nearly 50 years ago? Well nothing that happens
at North Wilkesboro Speedway surprises me let say that but with all that I say in a good
and positive way and it's what makes this place so unique and what people love about it and again
you talk about the roots of the sport and what it was formed out of and you know you're talking
almost 80 years later and that influence and that culture of those hardworking people here in Wilkes
County you know I'd say they're probably I would guess the last name might be call
and like most everybody else that lives within a five mile radius but that's one of those they
always handle business if they feel they're in the wrong so again as we said earlier we'll let
that one live for another day. You know that's the beauty of modern times you know now
readers don't have to confront the riders who make them mad they don't have to confront them
in person they can just beat the crap out of them on social media. Keyboard warriors for sure.
Some guy by the name of Steve Wade had a story in this issue about Buddy Baker talking about the sport
talking about the sport back in the good old days when his daddy Buck was whooping everybody on and
off the racetrack Buddy said they were a hearty bunch and they were tough they had hearts as big
as the cars they drove they were more closely knit than the drivers are today I mean if a driver had
the flu or something and he couldn't get his car ready for a race one of the other top drivers
would go over and set his car up and then race against him trying to beat his brains out now
what is Buddy Baker talking about drivers setting up their own cars what is that they have teams
they have specialists what what is that about drivers setting their own cars up.
You think about it today and engineers and all the the the technology and the data centers and
you know that's you go back to the old days when these guys were bringing their own cars to the
racetrack we just unveiled that 47 reserve that talks about the 1947 era of racing here where it
all started and and you look at how the the race cars were either coming in on a farm bed flat
truck or they were being had a little tow bar on their their family car bringing their race car to
the track so they drove their race cars to the racetrack where they've come to where that era was
to where we are now just again talks about the evolution of the sport. Buddy also talked about
the changes in safety that had been made and Steve noted in his story that when Lee Petty once
showed up to the racetrack with a car equipped with roll bars he showed up at the track with a car
that had roll bars that just seems so quaint. I again love history and and and love old racing
pictures and you look at the you know junior Johnson and some of the the the shots you see
with him and sitting in a race car and just the the very basic you know belt that he had the seat
that was you know formulated with an open-faced helmet and you know those guys are going out there
and running Darlington and Daytona in that and you know the level of danger that they that they
put themselves in for the entertainment of the fans and the sport but just the rudimentary era
that that was and then again all the safety innovations that where we are today but just
a different time when you talk about the history of the sport. Well according to Steve's story
Lee showed up the racetrack with the roll bars and everything according to Steve's story
Lee was laughed at and called a sissy to which Buddy Baker replied I can't imagine anyone laughing
at Lee Petty and still keeping his teeth. Back then you laughed with the drivers but nobody
laughed at them and I had I had to laugh when I saw this story about Buddy Baker talking about
his daddy Buck and over the years I mean we did the podcast together almost eight years
almost eight years to the day and Steve over the years he told a story several times on the podcast
about Buck Baker wrecking with a jug of tomato juice in his car it got all over him and everybody
thought that it was blood and all the little old ladies that were there passed out and anytime Buck
was mentioned on the show here would come Steve with that story to the point where I I actually
took it out I actually cut it out a few times at least once or twice
but the thing is that story apparently originated in this story because Buddy told Steve and then
Steve told us many many times over the years there is a news story in this issue by Gene
Granger reporting that DK Orrick had lost his appeal to NASCAR Commissioner Bunky Knudson
concerning a nitrous oxide system that had been found in his car
falling a really bad accident in that year Southern 500. DK was fined $2,000 and suspended 12
weeks and after losing the appeal DK told Granger at this point I don't see any advantages of a
lawsuit although I feel I could beat it in court it's unconstitutional and it isn't fair to have
a rule like that in the rule book it was an unusable piece of equipment if I had been caught
with an operable cylinder of nitrous in my car that would have been something else that's what
DK said in 1978 here here is what he said when I interviewed him for the Sevald podcast 44 years
later in 2022 all right so 1978 Southern 500 you get in a pretty bad accident with Granat Cox
what do you remember about the accident itself because it was a pretty substantial
serious accident I mean I got killed and lived through it I remember that that they did stuff on
I don't remember it but my people were there and they had me on the ground outside the car
trying to get me some pulse going and and I know that and it was a bad deal they were
what I remember about it is is I was doing good good I was doing I was not a lap down yet I don't
remember what when it happened on the racetrack David Pearson was behind me and I'm seeing him
coming and I see Grant started to spin and you know it was real narrow and always been still is
but he went up the track backwards and I thought and I'm almost on him right then I said I'm just
going to go below I can get between them David's coming I don't want to him
to pass me and I and he came right back down Grant came right back down the thing and I popped him
nearly full speed in the in the video you can see it on the video if you if you got one of those
from 1978 I've seen it you know it just was a sudden stop and it got my attention but that's
what I remember about it happening but I remember waking up in the in the hospital and Grant was
in there with me and he looked just the opposite of me I had bruises all the way down the right
side of me my right leg body everywhere on my everywhere was my right side and everything
on its left side was really we look like the opposite twins in there and went we all survived it
you talked about getting some attention from that point how did you find out
about what NASCAR had found on the car they discovered a nitrous oxide bottle how did you
find out that they had found something Bill Gasway called me in the hospital and
that was probably two days later and if you remember Bill Bill Gasway he was like he wanted
to be like Billy France I mean he was he was very in charge and and when he said it it was
cast in stone and he just called me up and he said that that the car had been broken a half in
front and the line was shown and we had to dig into it and find it we found a nitrous bottle
and we're going to give you a little vacation 5000 dollar penalty and I was out of for
the rest of the year that was in September that was a big hit to me how long had the bottle been
there because from what I again what I read you said that it wasn't hooked up that it had been in
the car for quite some time and I said that but but it was hooked up okay all right and and we
I put it in in in the in the frame rail and then left it where you turn it on I made it where it
looked like the bolt the head bolt like a three-quarter head bolt and that's all you saw in it was
was down by the frame and it was right where there was another bolt going somewhere you know and all
you had to just put the wrench on it turn it to turn it on and we could do that it was only good
for qualifying you know I really wouldn't do anything to for performance during the race but
you know you just turn the bolt the other way and go race and to see it later and it had a line that
went up into the this was down at the frame rail and it came up by the radiator around the loop
that was around the front of it back down roll bar over here and sprayed right into the into the
air cleaner wow and when you and there was a solenoid that I could hit in the car with regular
switch where it said the alternator you know I could flip that switch and you get about maybe 30
seconds of of nitrous oxide straight into motor and for example at Rockingham I wasn't going to make
the race it's a second day qualifying I said I'm gonna blow the nitrous oxide I go around and take
the green take one and two and then as soon as I could do it I hit it on the back stretch and a
car goes away out like this here you know and hang on I'm not letting up you know and I just went
like that and got all the way down industry and four and got fast time of the day I think you've
got an intent and then you then you have reality so when it comes to Jean's story on DK in this issue
now you know what really happened and you know and the thing is I fell for it it was in
Grand National scene he said it was inoperable he said it wasn't hooked up and when I talked to him
face to face yeah it was hooked up and I used it he fibbed to a reporter can you imagine that
what gall I can't believe that I thought he was a higher higher moral character
two things that I wanted to mention about Rob Griggs's column in this issue first
he talked about requests that had been made by officials at Charlotte and Atlanta for races
at their facilities to not end under caution and it wasn't until the early 2000s that that
actually happened and now Greg I don't know how you feel about it but I remain steadfastly in favor
of races not ending under caution but with an asterisk at Daytona and Talladega I still don't
want to see races end under caution but I'm also not sure how you keep it from becoming
a demolition derby yeah I would fall I'd fall in your line of thinking with that those those
two tracks in particular just so so different and from a restart and you know the chaos that
happens as everybody's trying to get to the to the checkered flag so I I'm in your camp on that
line of thinking the drivers could just stop running into each other that would be one solution but
who am I to say
also Rob mentions the fact that Mike Joy has left Stafford Springs Motor Speedway in Connecticut
to become the assistant PR person at Daytona now that's one thing just to see Mike Joy's
name in a newspaper from 1978 that's impressive because Mike has been doing this a really long
time but Rob goes on to say that out of a group of about 10 people who started out in the sport
at the same time 10 years ago and this being 1978 that would have made it 1968
he Gary McCready scenes original editor and Mike were the only ones still involved in the sport
so basically Rob Griggs is calling Mike Joy an old timer back in 1978
calling Moses and fast forward to 2026 and Mike's still doing
and doing a great job I would you know to see what he has seen and called the races that he
has called that's just you know that's impressive
all right so Greg I'm not going to make you tell stories about any of the guys on the tracks car
or anybody like it you know you grew up in football and all that so you may not have the stories
about all the people on the cards especially back in the early 90s when these cards come from
so I am going to hit you up with a question all right now you said that you've been in the sport
now 27 years yes sir what was your welcome to NASCAR moment I'll say again Jeff Byrd saw something
in me that I probably didn't see in myself at the time and so this is 1999 there were he was working
there were some rumblings of a football game at Bristol you know in the early days you think at
that time frame you know Peyton Manning had just gone through Tennessee Tennessee was playing
and won that national championship that that following year Peyton's career Virginia Tech's
experience and huge success with Michael Vick and Frank Beamer and everything they were doing and
that Bristol football game was was rumored and we were working on that really hard and it was
first couple of weeks on the job Jay Byrd pulls him into his office and says okay it gives me all
the scoop of kind of where they are in these meetings in this process and I want you to start
working on field options and astroturf and or we do a natural grass so start getting involved in
this so you know don't know my way to even barely get to work from from moving from Louisville to
Bristol and he brought me into the team and again saw something in me and that was that was an honor
as I look back that that he he trusted me believed in me to work on that project
unfortunately it didn't work at that time the timing wasn't right and didn't all the dots
didn't connect but you know Jerry Caldwell and Marcus Smith and our team got that discussions
revived in roughly 2013 and then that game happened in 2016 to Virginia Tech Tennessee
battle at Bristol the world's largest college football game hosted over 170,000 fans at Bristol
so I think that was that was my welcome to to NASCAR and welcome to Bristol moment
fantastic well Greg I just want to say I appreciate you being on the show today I appreciate you
invested in that kind of time given the fact that you are busy right now that's a big deal to me
and I really appreciate it I appreciate the fact that we're working together on the videos
absolutely Rick I think I think the world of you and Steve and you know as I got hired at Bristol
I showed you that clip I made I've made I made the scene once in my in my young career but I do
think the world of you and everything you're doing and treasure our friendship and relationship so
again kudos to you and everything you're doing and happy to hop on and jump in anytime you know
I love love talking racing and Bristol and North Wilkes-Burl so love to love to hop on anytime
you'll have me all right cool good deal any questions or anything no good okay all right
yes sir how you doing on time what what I'm good I've got it blocked I'm whatever you need today
okay all right all right ready yes sir
About this episode
North Wilkesboro Speedway’s comeback sets the stage, from COVID-era support and iRacing preservation to the grind it takes to pull off a Cup-level event. Jimmy Makar explains how he joined the restoration team and helped lead “the first points race in 30 years for the Window World 450.” The conversation then pivots to NASCAR history and team stability—“remember saying goodbye to Dale Jarrett… saying hello to DJ's replacement, Bobby Labani”—and how Bobby stayed “cool and calm” amid driver-change pressure.
Rick Houston is joined this week by guest co-host Graig Hoffman, executive director at North Wilkesboro Speedway.
This week in the third and final installment of our interview, Jimmy Makar remembers saying goodbye to Dale Jarrett as the driver for Joe Gibbs Racing, saying hello to DJ’s replacement, Bobby Labonte and what it was like to sit at the head table at the Winston Cup awards banquet.
Rick and Graig then tackle the October 5, 1978 issue of Grand National Scene.
Darrell Waltrip THRASHES the field at North Wilkesboro for the first 380 laps … pits … then pits again after being black flagged for a missing lug nut … which hands the victory to Cale Yarborough.
D.K. Ulrich loses his appeal over a nitrous oxide system that was discovered on his car following a bad accident at Darlington, despite his insistence AT THE TIME that it was inoperable.
And … Junior Johnson comes to the rescue for reporter Mike Mulhern.
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