Episode 423: 2025 Jeep Avenger, 2025 Subaru WRX tS, Jaguar Land Rover Hack

Hello, and welcome to the Unnamed Automotive Podcast. My name is Sammy Hadja-Sad, and with

me as always, it's my good friend and fellow automotive journalist, Benjamin Hunting. Say

hi to the people, Ben.

Greetings, human listeners.

Greetings to everyone. If this is the first time you're listening to this podcast, thank

you for trying something new. Ben and I are a pair of automotive journalists, but more

important than that, we're very, I would say, very good friends. Like, that's a two-very

statement.

We're good friends, but yeah, you never take me to Europe.

Do you want to come to Europe with me?

You know what? I don't know.

What the?

I want you to want to take me to Europe, I guess, is what I'm saying.

OK, so what you're saying is it shouldn't be prompted by a conversation like this.

Yeah, it's like it's I need to think about it is what you want rather than do it

spontaneously, ask you spontaneously, spontaneously.

Oh, no, I'm having a stroke spontaneously.

Ben is a is one of the automotive journalists that can be found all over

the internet. Ben, plug a couple of the publications so that we can get on with

the show. You can find my work at Motor Trend at Hagerty and at driving.ca and

recently AutoTrader.ca.

And Ben is also working on a really cool graphic novel or a comic book, right?

That's right. ModelUNcomic.com.

I have a Kickstarter there.

It is about aliens that show up on Earth and mistake a group of ModelUN

club members at a high school for the actual United Nations.

And then those kids are forced to negotiate the fate of the Earth over

the course of one crazy weekend.

Thanks to everyone who's already gotten in on the Kickstarter.

It is at again once again, again, again, again.

I keep saying that word. ModelUNcomic.com.

Excellent. And you can find my work at AutoTrader.ca, but more recently,

driving.ca and their YouTube channel, which I think is

youtube.com slash driving.ca.

I'm not sure.

I should probably know if I'm going to plug it, but we'll we'll go with that.

Ben, I've been away for about 14 or 15 days.

I was over there like eternity.

It did feel like an eternity.

I missed you and our listeners so much, but I had a really good time.

I was out in Ireland visiting friends and family as I guess people will start

to learn a little bit more about my life in this process.

My wife is she grew up in Ireland,

and she left all that behind to come and live with me.

And every once in a while, we go back over there and see everybody again,

which is good. I think that's part of the deal when you when you move.

Sometimes you want to see your friends again.

Don't you, Ben? I pass on that question.

But you want to talk to them on the podcast again, right?

Pass on that question. Oh, no.

So while I was there, though, I linked up with automaker Jeep.

You know, Jeep, J E. E. P.

Ever. It's a fairly well-known brand here in North America,

mostly due to the success of the Wrangler and the Grand Cherokee.

And it's probably one of the most successful parts of the Stalantis group.

Right?

You know, historically, Jeep has always been the most valuable part

of any acquisition it was involved in. That's right.

Is that that's because of the

the marketing associated with the Jeep, right?

Like and I mean, the products are fairly profitable, aren't they?

I would think so. I would think so, too.

There's nothing like they don't really like push the envelope

with their cars that we get in North America, but they get the job done.

They are popular. I mean, what do you mean by push the envelope?

We're not talking about like

when we think about cars with

high end technology or or features that are, you know, killer apps,

I think about a product like Supercruise, for example, which is

only found in GM products.

There is it's a hands free driving system that's offered on GM products.

I don't think that I know that Stalantis was said to be working on one of these features,

but I don't think it's come to fruition.

I mean, I would counter with the fact that the entire Wrangler is a killer app.

That's what I'm trying to say.

Just generates throws off crazy profits

and has no peers in the industry in terms of in terms of reputation.

Yeah. OK. So in terms of reputation,

I think that's a really great place to put it, right?

Like the Jeep is known for the Wrangler.

The Wrangler is like this is like this icon of automotive power.

It is. So where are you going with this?

I'm sorry to get really into the weeds here.

Oh, OK. Sorry.

Well, I want to talk about Jeep because in other parts of the world,

the Wrangler and the Jeep brand don't make as big of an impact.

I'm talking specifically about Europe where they don't have.

The Wrangler doesn't make a lot of sense in Europe because why everything is paved.

Yeah, everything is paved.

That doesn't seem real.

I think I think has to do with bringing over these American

these American products over and the size of the Wrangler

and other Jeeps make them very difficult cells in North America.

However, a few years ago, the automaker,

the Solantis Auto Group introduced a new Jeep that is

as far as I can tell, a very European product.

It's called the Avenger.

I guess something that could be confused with a previous

Dodge Avenger, but that was never sold in Europe.

That was never sold in Europe either.

But the Jeep Avenger is a tiny little car

that sold in a couple of different powertrain formats

and is loose, I think, using the same platform as the

as a couple of Peugeot's or Citroëns.

So what I'm talking about, particularly, is what they would call a B segment

compact crossover, I would say it's barely a crossover.

I wouldn't even call it a crossover at all.

This is a hatchback.

It is tiny, is teeny, and it featured the one I drove was all electric.

It features a 55 kilowatt hour battery,

as well as a front wheel drive electric motor that made only 155 horsepower.

That those are things that seem so anti jeep to me.

You know, like those two those two items.

Don't sound like what a Jeep would ever be in North America, right?

I don't know.

I mean, there's been plenty of Jeeps with 150 horsepower or less,

including the Wrangler for, like, long stretches of its existence.

Not lately, though, right?

And how much horsepower was in the Renegade?

The Renegade had a sweet little turbo, a sweet little turbo four, didn't it?

That was one of its engines, but it also had the Tiger Shark.

The Tiger Shark. Remember that?

Tiger Shark was not good.

That's an engine that no one talks about because we shouldn't talk about it.

You give it a cool name and then you just banish it like it seems odd.

The 2.4 that the Tiger Shark.

Oh, the Tiger Shark is a 2.4.

I'm trying to see how much it had, because that's a great.

That's a great point. 180 horsepower, man.

Also, front wheel drive is standard on the current compass or most recent compass.

Yeah, I think that's that's also worth pointing out.

I'm going to talk about the compass in a minute.

I want to get back to the Avenger.

All right, the design of the Avenger is, I think,

a really important selling part or selling feature of the car.

I think it really makes this little Jeep stand out.

It's a way of both being like honoring the Jeep

staples, which is that it has that, you know, that what is it?

The the pillard grill there, the nine pillar grill or whatever.

How many pillars it has?

How many pillars does that grill have?

I think it's seven slots, seven slats.

That's right. Slots. Slats.

I'm going to say slats. Slot.

Yeah. Why?

What's the difference between a slat and a slot?

I guess we're finding out right now.

Well, the difference is one's right and the other's wrong.

I think because it's an electric vehicle, there's no it's like a panel.

And I'm going to call it a slat as a result.

I'm confused. Yeah.

Why? So there's a there's a there's a gas powered version of the Avenger, right?

And a mild, I think a hybrid or a mild hybrid version.

They call the four by E.

And that one is all wheel drive.

That one is all wheel drive.

The EV is only front wheel drive.

That's right.

And the compass, the new one that just came out is the opposite of that.

It is front wheel drive only for the gas.

Yeah. And then the electric version, which is, I guess, coming, all wheel drive.

OK, let me let me get back to the we're going to get back to this.

You brought up the compass now twice.

I need to get that.

I guess you want me to get to my point as soon as possible.

The Jeep Avenger in both this EV and hybrid form that's offered in Europe

has been a relative success for the brand selling over 200,000 units

in Europe since its introduction in two thousand and twenty three,

which, in my opinion, sounds like a success story.

I like that idea.

Is that the EV or is it combined?

It's combined. OK.

And in addition to that, it was named the European car of the year

in its first year and was even called by some publications, including Top Gear,

Electric Car of the Year, Best Electric City Car and Best Family SUV,

which it probably should not have won.

But overall, this seems like a very popular and successful product.

And I just really wanted to give it a try.

So I drove one of these electric jeeps while I was there in Ireland.

And I came away mildly impressed

only because it's really difficult to contextualize these small EVs

when we're so used to larger vehicles and especially when it comes to EVs,

vehicles that frequently have nearly twice the battery capacity as these things do.

So let me be clear.

With with a 55 kilowatt hour battery,

the European testing figures

suggest that it can get about 400 kilometers of range.

And I think that's probably achievable if you maintain if you stay under like highway speeds.

But the reality is the way I drove it and put it on on the highway fairly frequently,

I was seen closer to 300 kilometers of range, which isn't super competitive.

But there are, you know, we do live in a world where like there are 160 kilometer

EV range EVs out there, like the mini.

I think the mini had 160 when it came out, CX 30.

The CX 30 had or MX MX 30 had really limited range.

I think there's a Fiat 500, which has a little bit more range.

This felt a little bit better than that.

So I was trying to say that like it didn't get me stranded.

We got everywhere we needed to go and we relied a lot on the public charging

infrastructure in Ireland, which is a little bit lagging behind other European countries,

including like France, Germany and some of the more like Austria.

And and what's the other one I'm thinking of Norway?

I mean, Norway has probably the best infrastructure and maybe in the world.

But not part of the European Union, not European Union.

Yes. So I also noticed that the design was really striking.

A lot of people that we visited and saw immediately noted the design of the car.

They thought it looked really cool.

I had a really bright yellow version of it.

It was covered in Jeep badging and stripes.

And like other Stalantis vehicles, it had a variety of Easter eggs found on the exterior design.

Things like a kid with a telescope in the the surround of the windshield.

Famously something we all associate with Jeep.

Yeah. A little ladybug in a plastic molding on the roof.

Rodney Dangerfield, big Jeep associate.

And I think there was something else there, but I'll get I can't remember it right now.

But overall, I was I was I think the design really spoke for itself.

It was a car that that made itself known.

People thought obviously didn't think it was anything related to a Peugeot or a Citroën.

It really had its own standout design.

I want to bring up the compass now because the design of the of the avenger

was penned by a European design team of Jeep, which I don't think is a common practice.

You did point out, I think the only other European themed Jeep that is out there,

which is the Renegade and the new compass is being or has been designed

by the same team that did the Avenger.

And it's really cool to see, you know, the success story with the Avenger.

And hopefully that will translate to the new compass.

We'll have to see when it comes and whether or not we will even get

a North Americanized version of the compass.

So we are getting it.

They're going to be building it in the United States at a plant in Illinois.

It was supposed to be built in Brampton, and they've decided not to do that.

And the Canadian government is probably going to sue them for that.

But it's been delayed because of tariffs and they've moved production to Illinois.

So it might not be here as a 2026 model.

I guess it depends on how fast they can get that.

OK, the factory is restarting 2027, so that's how long we're going to have to wait.

Yeah, I liked it.

I didn't see a single other one while I was on the road in Ireland.

So maybe Ireland is not the right market for it.

But I thought it was kind of cool.

I'm trying to figure out what other what other things would I think it's

highlights where it's designed and it drove really well for a small, cheap car.

Relatively cheap.

It costs about thirty five thousand euro, which.

I mean, I think that's probably the average price for a small car

or small EV and if you have any more questions about it, tell me.

Well, I think it's unique in the sense as well

that it's the only EV produced by Jeep, right, by Stalantis.

That and the wagon you're asked are the only two that they have.

So they have you have the one in North America.

And now they have two in Europe, if we're including the compass as well.

By the way, thirty five thousand euros, fifty six thousand Canadian dollars,

which is the average price of a new car here.

So. But you're also getting like a compact, limited range.

Yeah, something tiny.

That's the same price as an Ionic five with all wheel drive.

Without any of the incentives.

Yeah, I think so. Wow. Impressive.

Very. So why these things don't work here, obviously.

Well, I mean, they would be comparisons don't always work pricing wise.

But I know because they it could also be priced differently for this market.

Like, yeah, exactly.

There's other comparable.

Let me see what let me see what they sell.

The Ionic five, for example, in Ireland for, right?

I don't know. I don't think you're going to find that.

I'm going to find it.

What do you mean? I won't be able to find it.

Now, that information is not available.

OK, keep going with me. Talk to me more here.

Keep it. It's your car.

I'll say the base price of an Ionic five is fifty five, seven, six, six.

And that gets you in North America and in the in Canada in Canada.

I'm looking at it now.

And that gets you the sixty three kilowatt hour battery

and rear wheel drive. OK.

So it's also a much, it's also a much larger vehicle.

I'm looking at the base price of an Ionic five in in Ireland,

and it starts at forty one forty one thousand two hundred euro.

And what do you get with that?

Like, what is the base model of eighty four?

Jesus, eighty four kilowatt hour battery.

So it has the extended. Yeah.

So that's sixty six thousand Canadian. Yeah.

Which lines up if you look at the at the Ionic with

the eighty four kilowatt here is fifty eight thousands.

So it's a little bit cheaper.

Interesting, huh?

It's what's interesting is if you look at this is completely off topic.

If you look at the Ionic five, the base model is three thousand dollars,

less than three thousand dollars cheaper than the one with the much bigger

battery. Yeah. Yeah. And more horsepower.

So like it's odd that the other one exists.

I'm assuming it's there just for pricing reasons.

But the pricing is so close.

Yeah. Yeah. And this includes this includes delivery, by the way.

We've I think we've always said that the the entry level model is like a dud.

It's like just to get people into the door.

Well, some of them are that some of them are like even sold.

I'm like, are there really sixty thousand dollar corvettes out there?

I don't think there's been a sixty thousand dollar corvette in a long time.

Yeah, but that was like the starting price of them when they like everyone said

this was a starting price back in the day when you wore an onion on your belt

because it was a style at the time.

Maybe that's what it's cost.

The base price for a stingray right now is seventy grand US.

I don't think that exists.

I still don't think even that one that one counts.

What do you think the most expensive stingray is?

I know it's like two hundred and fifty, isn't it?

No, no, no, no, no, the stingray, not like the special models.

I don't guess nine.

A hundred and a hundred ninety nine.

With no options, with no options is eighty three thousand.

Oh, sorry, just a regular trim version of it.

Yeah, the three LT, the highest corvette stingray you can buy.

You're thinking like zero six and seven.

Yeah, I'm thinking of cool cars, I guess.

Wow. Anyway, anything else you want to say about this?

cheap. I really think it's cool to see what um there's like a there's like how do we say this

properly cars are this really universal thing where it provides us transportation and we get

to from point A to point B and no matter where you go there's also the added element of like

identity with these cars and I think that people buy cars based on you know perceived

identity or something like that and I think that an American designed vehicle in Europe

carries its own unique identity that will appeal to certain people and it isn't an American designed

vehicle no but it's like they try to take this is like a Jeep yeah so like like think of that

concept right it's like they took the full the idea of what Jeep is here to us European

Europeanized it or globalized it don't say that again yeah sorry globalized it

and made a successful product with that design outcome here's my question did they really do

that or did they just take a Peugeot I'm looking at that Peugeot it doesn't look a thing like

and give it different body work I think it doesn't look like these Peugeot's at all okay

the 2008 and the 2008 I don't know what about the 3008 and the 5008

you mean look at all of these things the opal grand land apparently these are all using the

stla medium platform which is underneath the Jeep compass yeah the cmp or the stla medium

stla medium this is supposed to be using this sta small I'm talking about the compass oh the

compass let me look I didn't look at those ones yes yes where is this I can't find a 308

3008 3008 444 numbers for some reason

here we are what a wild looking car that is

no man this is I don't think it's it I don't think it's related to I mean

I mean it might usually this just this just looks like a grand Cherokee that's smaller

what the oh the the adventure or the adventure yeah and the compass and this 308 doesn't look

a thing like that I see the adventure the adventure has a lot of renegade in it as well

but the renegade is not a is not an attractive car it's like I think it looks fine it looks

like a weird stout little thing it looks like a like a huge would you rather have a renegade

or a 500x yeah yeah okay fine if those are my options I'd rather not I'd rather walk I'd rather

take a bike wow I thought you said cars were universal and now you're cool yes now you're

like I'd rather walk the identity and the design that comes with them is also like a really important

part of them we buy a lot of cars based on what they look like and how they make you feel and I think

those things like go together in many ways and that's gotta be true you have to agree with me

with this this is hilarious so let me be the last thing to say we'll say about this adventure

yeah so the adventure is based on the same platform as the fiat 600 and a vehicle called

the alpha Romeo junior I checked out the alpha Romeo junior the story is Italian government

forces alpha Romeo to change name of Milano SUV to junior why uh I'm trying to figure that out

so apparently the industry's industry minister criticized alpha Romeo for marketing a foreign

built car with an Italian name even though because it's built in Poland a car called Milano cannot

be produced in Poland said the minister on Thursday this is forbidden by Italian law

he's referring to a piece of legislation from 2003 that calls out quote Italian sounding products

that falsely claim to be produced in Italy it misleads consumers amazing that is amazing

that is amazing so the future story you're working on the Milano nameplate it was a tribute to the

city of Milan where alpha male got its start and it's been used on many other vehicles for you

know over the years right but now it's called the junior yeah take that what what an odd choice

they're like well we can't call it Milano what should we call it how about something that has

nothing to do with cars the junior how do you market the junior yeah like who's buying the junior

would you buy a car called the senior

no I don't think so I feel like alpha Romeo really got screwed by their own the industry

this is stories from 2024 by the way so you love that that's a great story thank you for finding

that for me totally strange okay so I had some fun with this Avenger what did you get to play

around with while I was away oh lots of things including guest host Chad Kirchner who came in

and did a fantastic job on the show much better than me today of course he was upset by not being

able to work in as much Star Trek references as he wanted to but there's always future opportunities

for that Chad um I drove the 2025 Subaru WRX TS that's a lot of consonants it's a lot of letters

that you had to give me but I think I'm following you because we've this isn't the first time a TS

nameplate has shown up somewhere yeah so a long time ago Subaru made a vehicle called the STI that

was like super fun and track oriented and represented like the apex of their performance

division and then they forgot how to do that seemingly they decided we're not going to have

STI anymore we're just going to have regular WRX even though the minute they made that decision

all of their competitors came out with super hardcore like suddenly we had the type R after

not having had the type R for like 15 years then we had Hyundai comes out with N which is like

you know Elantra on steroids yeah and uh Golf R is still around and Golf R just keeps getting

crazier right so so WRX retreated from the battleground when everyone else was advancing and

that was I want to say six seven years ago now yeah it's maybe even more we still don't have an

STI what we do have is essentially the same car we had six or seven years ago from WRX

that has a TS badge on it now which as Sammy pointed out we've talked about in the past

because it was attached to the BRZ yeah and what the TS stands for is and everyone knows this of

course tuned by STI um if you're thinking it's it's like M sport or AM or like the

yeah it's like N sport or M sport or whatever so it is like that it is it is the uh what do you

call what do we call these names what's that Kia off-road thing that's not really off X line it's

X line pro and X line this is just X line so like yeah if you were excited thinking that while I'm

paying $50,000 for a WRX I'm sure it has more horsepower no no sorry did you want under 300

horsepower because that's what you got the TS makes no meaningful or any mechanical upgrades to its

drivetrain you don't get a retuned turbo you don't I mean like you don't have a bigger turbo you

don't have retuned software you have the same 271 horsepower and 258 pound-feet of torque

that you would have in any other version of the WRX what you do get are a lot of the features that

would come with the WRX GT which I believe is automatic only Sammy is that right yeah I think

that's right so there's some luxury gear in there you also get some like real luxury gear or just

like no no I mean I hate it when that's like our go-to for when there's slightly more technology

or like leather in a car I'm gonna break down what you get with this car you do it for me

tire shocks seats and brakes so that could have been a sweet rap but okay you get more aggressive

tires and brakes you get six piston brakes up front when you say more we gotta talk when you

say more aggressive like a like a summer high performance tire so just something that won't

work all year long and no tires should work all year long if you live in Canada and in large

parts of the United States okay fine something that will wear out faster no I'm not mad that the

tires are mad but what I'm saying is each of those things are to replace each of those things I just

named you can do in the aftermarket there's nothing there's nothing special about this car

that comes exclusively from Subaru like say when the STI had its torques shifting center differential

that you can control the DCCD there's nothing like that here no totally not like useful but

really cool to just toggle around it's useful on a racetrack it allows does allow you to change

how the vehicle reacts to driver inputs you're getting recarro sports seats you're getting

adaptive shocks which again I believe we're only available in the GT before and now okay okay wait

aftermarket changing your changing your your seats in it from the aftermarket is not a fun

experience I mean it's not impossible why why do you say that it's just like it's a pain in the

butt it's just bolts you just take the old bolts out and put the new bolts in that's

seats are hard to put in and out no they're not yeah no they're not okay okay Sammy well

since you feel that way yeah do you think that tire shocks seats and brakes are worth $10,000

because that's what you pay that's what you pay to get the TS no no thank you wait wait the shocks

though that's gotta be a big thing they're adaptive that's cool and they're they're they're attached to

the selectable drive modes which is again something you could only get on the GT trim um that's so

funny I just want to say that's really funny can I say that's really funny I just want to say sorry

go on to me the WRX was at its best at its most simple form you get a manual version of the trim

the base trim and you're like this car is tons of fun it's really simple it's got a great little

shifter that like a few other cars have it sounds really like basic but it's fun like so you can

still get that car you can still walk into a super dealership in the States spend $38,000 in Canada

you would spend $40,000 very very similar amounts of money actually much cheaper in Canada

and you get that car you get that base manual transmission car $10,000 more for the TS it just

doesn't work for me because I don't feel like the car is improved to the point where it competes with

a a type R or an Elantra N in terms of fun I think that they really needed more power for

this car to justify the price I think a $50,000 STI would knock things out of the park give us an

actual special car because I'm going to tell you the TS drives fine there's nothing wrong with it

I didn't have a negative experience with it but at the same but what I also didn't have was an

experience that felt special enough to justify the extra cost yeah it really feels like with

each passing year Subaru misses this opportunity well they keep putting together these like parts

been special models that are not special they take cool stuff that Subaru has available and they

give it to the WRX but it's never cohesive enough to push it over the over the crest of the mountain

into true greatness like you're still driving a car that a car that's wearing mods that you could

have done yourself and like and it's worth pointing out though like the WRX and the WRX is not like

shy to the aftermarket scene most people I think most people who are familiar with the WRX know

that there's a big aftermarket scene with it and you can get anything you want for it right it really

feels like this is the hallmark movie of WRX's at this point that's such a burn why did you have

to take it there there's just I would have settled for an ounce of personality from the car I'm I've

owned multiple WRX's I really like these cars I just did not connect with this car it's competent

it's relatively quick although it's like a half second at least behind every other car at its price

point and in its its competitive set so all those compact performance cars we mentioned it just feels

like like a hallmark movie depiction of a sports sedan in the past that never took the leap to the

next life stage it's like the WRX is like the older sibling that stayed in their hometown to take

over the family business and all the other sports sedans went into city and they became who they

could be and they came home with like all this crazy horsepower and technology and WRX is still

there at the christmas tree farm being like well you know it's it's an honest living there used to

be a time what there used to be a time when I was I was gonna make it big man I was a rally

champion back in the day I had all the ingredients okay let's be clear here when it comes to the

compact uh hot hatch segment not just hatch this is not a hatch sorry compact sports sedan segment

the Elantra N which is not only cheaper but faster faster and more fun yes has tons of personality

yes is always the better pick when you're on a budget right and I want to say it's faster

even though it's front wheel drive which is crazy yeah um it's like the better pick in this in the

segment it's $6,500 cheaper in Canada that is more than 10% actually useful yeah that's an actual

useful amount cheaper so the type R and the Golf R are $5,000 more but you are getting a lot more

at least 300 horsepower I think if there was a $55,000 STI that would be amazing I would not be

having this same conversation I'm just saying like the WRX is very good for what it is but

when you try to make it something it's not it falls down in the face of the competition

if I was driving the base model I would have been much happier with this car those other

cars that are $50,000 or more uh Civic type R, Golf R, GR Corolla I didn't even think about the

GR Corolla like that didn't even enter into this but you're right have this like they have a lot

of really cool technology I need to point out they have like trick differentials they have the same

trick differentially you were making fun of was similar earlier uh you're like no one needs that

except when I want to highlight it um they have trick differentials they have really cool suspension

systems or or automatic transmissions um they have a lot of like tech that makes them not only like

high performance not only fun to drive but really high performance it also separates them from other

models right yes yeah but Subaru I think struggles in this part of of making the leap to a to an

STI right now the STI was really good but it was simple remember the old like you drove I think the

last special WRX STI the S209 oh there might have been a new one after that but yeah you drove an

S209 I think it was S209 which was a like these were practically hand built but they were still

like the simplest kind of cars tons of power all like a really robust all-wheel drive system

and stiff suspension right yeah and and again the differentials which is like not nothing you know

that was now everyone has that and Subaru doesn't want to make the leap to the next generation

well that's what I just said this is when I was doing my hallmark thing I wasn't just joking about

that it's like this the WRX feels like a car that's left behind and it feels even more left

behind when you compare it to cars that should be compared to the STI and when you price the WRX

to be like an STI but don't give it the STI's qualities like I I can't recommend this car I

can recommend other versions of the WRX yeah you know like and honestly crazy lease deals on the WRX

you can get like really really affordable so there's no reason to not buy a WRX but I don't

think you should spend more for the TS even if you're like a dedicated track person and you are

going to put in all those extra features that I mentioned you're probably going to want to pick

your own tires you're probably going to want to pick your own brakes and yeah maybe it's expensive

to get six piston brembo calipers on the aftermarket you know like that might be hard and

adaptive shock absorbers if you're a track person you don't need that if you're a track

person you're going to have your own shocks that are going to be tuned to the track you're unless

you're driving to the track which you might be in which case you do want that kind of compromise

but all I'm saying is there's not enough special sauce here and there's not $10,000 with the special

sauce and I am still a Subaru owner and have been for a long time like I've there's been a Subaru in

the fleet continuously for like probably a decade now and I just wish they could reach their full

potential with this model all I'm saying is it seems like Subaru is struggling on the next

on making that leap performance wise they don't have anything right now that will give them a leap

of power and no one knows where that's coming from right do you know what I mean like they don't have

like fancy they don't have fancy turbos they don't have a newer all wheel drive system that will

that will really make thing turn things up a notch they don't have anything in the pipeline that

seems to suggest that they're going to make a hotter car well we talked in the past about how

STI is no longer really the focus in terms of Subaru when you look at like if you have a if

you have a brand and you have a brand like Subaru has sub brands right STI for a very long time was

a flagship but I think that Wilderness is now the flagship for Subaru that's where they're putting

their energy that's working for them they're selling these vehicles and ultimately when you're a

company it's about what you're able to do economically and economically SUVs make the most

sense and off-road SUVs are what everyone has been convinced they want now so like that's what's

out there okay there's one more thing you want to talk about on today's episode yes and I'm eager to

to talk about it as well something crazy happened to a company that didn't deserve it or shouldn't

have had it happen we're not going to get into the morality of it oh yes the morality of it but

this is one of the biggest news stories in the auto industry that people are just completely

glossing over so back in I want to say August was it August Sammy someone hacked JLR Jaguar

Land Rover and when we say hacked um they shut down all of their production for like a month maybe

more maybe Jaguar has not been building cars I mean we knew that Land Rover has not been building

cars they've not been exporting cars and over that period of time 1.9 billion pounds worth of

damage has been done to the economy and Jaguar itself because of this because there's 5 000

businesses attached to providing Jaguar with parts and services and whatnot that are affected

by the complete shutdown of all of their facilities around the world it's apparently the most

economically damaging cyber event in UK history according to the BBC yeah this is a very serious

thing I mean it they say that JLR produces about a thousand vehicles per day across all of its

facilities I don't know if that's true I mean there's five plants so that that seems possible

that's a high number but at the same time JLR did not need this problem do you know what I mean

I mean yeah as we mentioned Jaguar not really making cars right now yeah they're owned by Tata

which is a huge company but you can only absorb so many billions before like

blocks yeah things get really bad um it's my understanding is I don't quite understand if the

attack in the attack is what caused the shutdown or they shut down as a result of the attack that

no I think the attack caused the shutdown and I think what happened was it was it was like I think

they might have been trying to hold them for ransom yeah um it was a company in any case

it's a really bad thing it's a really big deal try to imagine any car company just being out of

business for five weeks it feels like Jaguar Land Rover is the one company where this could happen

and we wouldn't know about it yeah that's what I mean no one's really like uh worried about this

so I'm seeing talk about ransomware so that the kind of looks like how it went down

but they've had a the company had to put up short-term financing to like keep its suppliers

afloat because if your job is to supply Jaguar Jaguar's not buying from you let's say you go

out of business when Jaguar starts back up they won't be able to build cars right like so it becomes

a very complex web of cash at that point um anyway it's it's insane I mean let's let's

think about this for a second how many other companies out there could be facing something

similar like how long before this it's an airline you know can you imagine if Delta couldn't fly

for five weeks yeah that's the end of the company pretty much pretty much I mean there was how long

did so many of these shutdowns happen during COVID during 2020 but I guess there was a lot of loans

that went around to try to help but at the same time those shutdowns weren't like the whole economy

was shut down yeah exactly so Jaguar is just like on the sidelines while all of its competitors

yeah oops all cyber attacks yeah anyway I just thought that was nuts I wanted to bring it up

um because I haven't heard anyone really talking about it there are outlets that are covering it

but I feel like this is front page news it's worth pointing out that the that Tata consultancy

services which is apparently the name given to the the ownership group here the computer systems

that are part of this this hack or JLR uses TCS was also hacked this year at Marx and Spencer's

in co-op so it seems like that's really the main the main issue this TCS this Tata consultancy

services which JLR used for their for their computer services just was a vector from all

of these other things that TCS had under there so you're saying there's an opportunity here to

step in and yeah pick up the new client we should we should consider it but that means

there's been four arrests made so far and still though how many arrests is enough for you yeah

how many well whatever where does your blood let's take you whatever gets these systems back up and

running the question of course is how long how much longer do they have to weather this

well I don't know if they're back or not yeah I don't think it's not clear oh so here we go

JLR managed a limited restart in October but they don't know when full operations will resume

that's not a good sign so this is an ongoing thing yeah the UK government has loaned them

two billion dollars never a good sign not good they were losing 61 million dollars a week during

the shutdown so like that's anyway Sammy if people want to hear more about what we've talked about

in the past they want to hear more about cars that aren't Jaguar Land Rover or WRX's or cheap

Avengers how can they do that they can head on over to our website on namedautomotivepodcast.com

while you're there you'll find all of our previous episodes there's also a way to subscribe to our

podcast but we really recommend you just go on your podcast client or your podcaster or podcatcher

and search for us on namedautomotivepodcast and subscribe to us it's a really good idea

you'll catch all of our newest episodes we try to put one out weekly although sometimes like

we go on vacation I go on vacation and I can't publish things well in the way listen to these

excuses all these vacations what a burden the other thing you can do when you come on over to

our website is you can fill out a contact form let us know what's on your mind we really appreciate

we love getting feedback we love getting your questions I think is maybe our favorite thing

that we do and we usually bring them up on the next available episode we record so send us questions

you can also email us it's benjamin at benjaminhunting.com or you can find us on social media

Ben and I both are both are on Instagram I'm at sammy underscore ha like you're laughing ha

and Ben is at Hunting Benjamin Sammy what are you going to be talking about next week speaking

of JLR I'm driving a very fancy JLR maybe the cyber attack has allowed me to get into their

press booking situation because I'm driving a Range Rover Sport SV Edition 2 which is a very

fancy car with a lot of performance and makes a lot of noise I think you just use your late

hacking skills to cut through the ice that was keeping you locked out of that ignition system

I agree I think that's exactly what happened I'm gonna be talking about the Chevrolet Blazer SS

what on earth is that it's a EV oh yeah okay sorry I forgot what the Blazer was wow you really

have been gone maybe if the Blazer was like a Fiat based Jeep badged SUV you would you'd be

more familiar with I'd be all over it of course okay Blazer SS that's gotta be fun okay cool let's

talk about performance cars next week all right thank you for listening everybody see you later bye

Episode 423: 2025 Jeep Avenger, 2025 Subaru WRX tS, Jaguar Land Rover Hack

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