EU adjusts 2035 petrol ban, FCA could tweak finance compensation scheme, and where is Gerry McGovern? - with Peter Vardy, episode 236

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Welcome back to the Cardiola podcast, where we pick our favourite stories of the week

and ask an industry guest to choose which were the best.

I'm John Ray, and joining me as ever from his broom cupboard is James Baggart.

James, lovely to see you.

Nice to see you, John. Thank you for that introduction. How are you?

Very well, very well. I'm about one floor up from you, as usual.

As is customary for the podcast, yet you are doing it from my house, lovely.

Are you feeling festive?

Not really.

Why not? We've got a Christmas tree up and everything.

Well, I mean, I was slightly confused, because when you go to a different country

that doesn't really celebrate Christmas all that much for most of December,

you come back and it throws me off slightly.

But we have had our Christmas do, again, in a Japanese restaurant.

For you, of course.

Thank you. Many for your benefit, so you could all be the Sushi Platter Sea for seven people.

Very enjoyable.

But yes. So what's been going on with you, James?

What's been going on with me? Do you know what?

I just don't really know. I'm sort of at that end of year kind of fuzz,

where you're trying to get everything sorted before Christmas,

which is only a very short period, but it feels like a lifetime, doesn't it?

Everybody really, really looks forward to.

So I'm looking forward to the break from Cardila magazine stuff.

But hopefully the Cardila world continues to tick over,

because we've got a lot of cars in stock and we need to start selling them.

So hopefully the Boxing Day sales, John, are vigorous.

Yes, because I was in the dealership yesterday and I heard your boss, Joe Wellington,

tell you that you were officially on a buying ban.

Yes. So what did I do?

I went straight on to the Japanese auctions and tried to buy some stuff tonight.

Yeah. Anyway, I'm sure it'll be fine.

Let's hope January comes around.

There's been some positive news this week.

Hopefully people start buying and it all kicks off again because it has been quiet.

But then what do you expect? It is Christmas time, isn't it?

Yeah, exactly. Unless you're buying a blue Saab, no one's interested.

No, true. No. Shall I introduce our guests?

Please do. Lovely.

So our guest this week is founder of Peter Vardy Group and now Peter Vardy Global.

It is, of course, Peter Vardy. Peter, lovely to see you. Thanks for joining us.

Not very imaginative name is it, but yeah.

No, nice to see you and Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas to you. Nice to see you, Peter. It's been a while.

You too. How are things with you?

Yeah, a bit changed, obviously. We don't have as many dealerships.

So a bit of a change in role and size of group and things.

So a bit of a turbulent couple of years.

But we said we would have a three year strategy and we're two,

two and a bit years through that in terms of going from what we were doing

to what we hope to do in the future.

So a bit tricky, but we are on track with what we said we would do.

So quite pleased in that sense.

Let's have a little bit of a recap then.

Talk me through the last couple of years because you've made some massive decisions.

We chatted at Cardio Live, I think what, two years ago?

Maybe I think it might have been the first one three years ago.

And then you said the industry was up for real change.

The Chinese Challenger brands were coming in and you predicted a lot of stuff.

And since then there's been big changes for your business.

So can we let's have a bit of a recap of what's happened?

Yeah, I think just in terms of our look,

I think we needed to be a much bigger business to be set for the future than we were.

So when we were the size that we were,

it was a case of what do we do now to be scale it up.

And of course at the time we had car supermarkets.

It was after COVID car supermarkets had a good time for a while then run out of stock.

So it was a bit of a bit of a crossroads.

Which way do you go?

Do you double the size of the company to be able to deal with everything that's going on?

Or do you look to make the company smaller and diversify into different things?

So really we looked at, well, it's quite difficult to scale it quickly

because a lot of the franchises are already owned by other dealer groups, particularly in Scotland.

And if car supermarket things can be smaller, we'll probably end up too small.

And that's really the truth behind what happened.

And then saying, right, well, we were quite good at diversifying since it started.

The company when I always planned on having a digital business on,

it was a 10 year plan when I first started.

So in the 10th year we started Carmoney.

Carmoney is now one of the biggest brokers in the country, which is really exciting.

We started the software business, which was able to buy a car online,

and obviously Keyloop picked that business up.

So in the trajectory of growing dealerships,

we actually found out we were actually quite good at starting new businesses and scaling them up.

So when the dealership thing reduced in size,

we thought, well, why don't we take the skill set we've got in terms of starting with an idea and scaling it

and invest the funds that we then receive by coming out of the dealerships into things like that.

So we've been busy building a team up that would look a bit more like private equity team.

That's their experience. That's their background.

As we're trying to find opportunities of new ideas, either by starting them ourselves

or getting alongside great leaders and earlier businesses to see how we can help them scale up.

So we've still got Porsche businesses very proud of.

Carmoney is still growing very quickly.

We've got obviously a big property portfolio after a whole stuff we've done.

And then we've got this outlook of can we invest in new start-up businesses

and find the next server bullet or the next car money?

Because they've been really exciting to do.

So having said all that, that sounds like an easier story and quite an easy strategy.

Coming out of dealerships and selling was very costly emotionally

and financially, so that wasn't an easy thing to do.

But it's good to see a lot of the colleagues that I was very close with are doing well in other groups.

That's brilliant.

But that wasn't without a sad take, if I'm honest with you.

So I wouldn't do that again.

But I suppose that's business.

Sometimes isn't you decide to go from one thing to another

and you try and make the right decision at the time.

You try and look after people the best you possibly can.

But you're trying to have our business and being in business,

family's been in business for 100 years.

My student, under my studentship, I need to say,

well, where's it going to go for the next 100?

And how do we look at where that might go?

And I think in the motor trade, if you're bigger,

you can do with some of these different storms, can't you?

Because if you've got multiple franchises, you're in a better position than I was in.

So when the Chinese come along, like they have done,

how is that going to affect the industry?

How do people, what is it like trading with Chinese companies?

It's very different.

I live in China for a while.

So I know that relationship between ourselves and the European manufacturer ourselves

and the Chinese manufacturer is very different.

And you've got to decide whether you want to do that.

Is that the terms of business that you want to do?

Same as you would want to choose which German manufacturer you want to work with.

But it is different.

Then obviously we had the agency model,

which I was involved with some of the manufacturers about that.

And then you've got EV and things.

So if you're bigger, you're going to be able to cope with these headwinds.

If you are small, I thought for me personally, it was going to be a bit too tricky.

So we downsized 60 of the ship's went to Parks Group.

And I like them very a lot.

I like the guys, Ross and Graham, I know very well at Parks.

They are good operators and good guys and a good nice family.

And then I know John at Arnold Clark very well.

So I've got to know him quite personally as well.

They took some of the businesses on too.

So they went to Scottish businesses where people could get employed by local Scottish businesses.

And I was pleased about that.

So that now freezes up to look at what happens in 2026.

Yes, that's the journey.

So it's turbulent.

I tried to look after everybody I possibly could.

Some mayors I did it well, some mayors I possibly didn't.

I tried my best.

But then that lets us get on with the next strategy going forward.

You've got to shake the dust off your feet, don't you?

And get on with what the next strategy would be.

And we've got, for 18 years in business, 19 years in business,

we've created a lot of value financially to be able to do quite a lot of amazing things

whether that's through the foundation or whether that's starting new businesses.

Although the last couple years have been a bit tricky,

the 18, 19 years have been incredibly successful from what we started with.

So I've got to count my blessings on that one and think it's right.

But how do I am now responsible for the resources I've now got,

whether it be through the foundation or whether it's through business and creating opportunities.

And obviously based in Scotland, you want to try and create opportunities for people in Scotland

to create employment and everything.

So we're trying to have an impact in this area that we're in

and then use the business acumen and the foundation skill

and ability that we've got to make a difference.

So it's quite an exciting space to be at now once you get through the changing thing,

which is a difficult for everybody.

Once you start coming out at the other end of that,

you can lift your head up and get quite excited.

Pete, that's been quite the journey and I know we've spoken a number of times throughout that

and I know it's been a personal challenge for you, hasn't it?

Yeah, all big time.

It's been a difficult process, hasn't it?

I think so.

I think when you set your store up and I was very fortunate,

very, very fortunate that my family had done quite well in business,

and they were able to give me a bit of a start.

I mean, they didn't give me an easier ride

because apparently it gives you a tougher than it gives everybody else

with the kind of way of growing up.

So I did every job in the business and I learned all of them.

I wasn't very good at accounts, but I had a shot of everything else

in every summer holiday since I was 14.

So I grew up in the leadership world, I enjoyed it.

And because I was fortunate,

you clearly the business is a game about making money businesses, isn't it?

But our ethos was all about trying to look after people.

So when you're trying to create the best place to work,

best place to buy and have an impact to the community.

See when you have to close a business down or change things,

that is like a dagger to the heart because it's exactly the opposite

of what you set up to do.

So that was the personal challenge in it.

The managing the financials and the strategy thing,

that's what you do as a leader in business, isn't it?

But if your ethos is about valuing people,

and I'm a Christian, that's what my background would be.

If that is your number one goal,

and you can see how to do that through business when it runs well,

wouldn't you feel as if you let people down on that particular topic?

It's very difficult.

So that's been that of all the challenges,

that's been the one that I wouldn't want to relive.

And I mean, you've said there that most trade runs through your veins.

I mean, it's in your family, you've been doing it a long time.

Did you chat to your dad when you were making these decisions?

I mean, he's obviously been in the most trade for a long time.

Of course, yeah.

But then it came down to the discussion about,

well, where's the motor trade going to go?

So if we were the size we're at and we can make a car supermarket,

what's the next steps that you could take?

And there's some brilliant manufacturers,

and there's actually good car supermarkets out there,

but you have to have scale.

And it was a case of, well, if we're not going to have the scale,

what's the options?

And if you look at what we're good at,

how do you play to the strengths of the organization?

And so we said, well, we're actually quite good diversifying.

We're quite good at startups.

If we have to have multiple franchises and multiple dealerships,

and that's not an easy thing to grow into,

then you have to decide to come out of it.

It's a commercial decision.

And then the emotional bit follows on after.

But you've got to try and make the right decision for the business

and the right decision for the people for the long term.

Yeah, but it is difficult.

And we've still got the Porsche businesses,

still car money, still business.

There's still about 400 people in the company,

so it's not tiny.

And if you look at the outlook of profitability-wise

of what we've got now,

it's pretty good for the size of the business.

It's more profitable per person than I've ever been

since the start of the company in terms of,

if you look at that metric,

profit per person or something like that.

So in a smart way, the business is in a really good place.

Intellectually, and from a business strategy point of view,

that's quite a clever thing to do.

But that doesn't cover up the cracks of changing your strategy

and changing what people are doing.

There's no clever strategy covers up there.

Do you think you've been put off for life then

when it comes to going back into dealerships?

I mean, you've still got the Porsche one.

I mean, do you think you're going to go grow that?

Or is it just a case of you like that because you love the brand?

No, I haven't been put off like absolutely not.

No, I think it comes up, you know,

probably catching breath a little bit,

if I'm honest with you.

But no, I loved it.

That's what I grew up in.

So depending on what the opportunity comes along to be,

we'd have a look at it.

Absolutely.

We've got the, we're very fortunate to have the funds now.

The exit of all the businesses,

you end up a lot of money in your bank.

And obviously, not much money.

You're not going to make much with it in the bank.

So you are then pushed to do something with it.

But no, I think it was a change because we didn't have the scale.

I did say to somebody the other day,

over the next 10 years,

I'd be interested to see what happens.

And there'd be plenty of opportunities over the next 10 years.

And if you're in a position where you can enter the market at the right time,

you might be quite grateful of that.

So I wouldn't write anything off,

but it was the journey that we had to go on with what we had.

But I've certainly got opportunity ahead of us that I'm quite excited.

I think you've got to wait and see what comes up, don't you?

Yeah.

You've always been a strategic thinker

and someone who looks at what's happening in the future

and plans ahead.

What are your thoughts for the motor trade for 2026 as we go into it?

I mean, you obviously are slightly stepped back now.

I just give me a little bit more of a view of what's going to happen.

Well, I think the use car markets can be OK by the looks of it, isn't it?

The use car market looks as if it's good.

And that's bread and butter, isn't it?

To make anything work of use cars as good.

So I'm quite excited about that for the trade of the use cars.

I think you've got to form your own view on the new car market with the Chinese entrance.

You've got to try and work out how you want to play that game.

And that's going to be as a business angle to that one.

But I think there's a bigger economic political angle to take on that one as well

if you want to go there.

And I think as a business leader, you've got to consider all of these things

because you'll one day think about it.

So that's quite a difficult thing for me to get my head around what was good on there.

But the Japanese products are very good.

The Chinese products are actually very, very, very good and very cheap, isn't it?

So the man in the street wants a cheap good car.

That's the one to buy at the moment, isn't it?

So if you've got a Chinese franchise next year, it's going to be fantastic.

It'll be two or three years of real growth in that, I imagine.

I think the margins might then be pulled back as we all think it can't go on forever.

But next year should be good for that.

It'd be interesting to see what the finance redress scheme does for the trade.

What's that really going to mean?

What does that mean for some finance going forward?

I've been interested and want to work out.

And I think after the budget, we saw a bit of, I think we've all felt a bit of a wee bit of a lift after the budget

because it wasn't as bad as maybe the motor trade thought it was going to be, or customers.

So customers come back in again.

I don't know.

I think the cost of labour for me was a difficult one in the motor trade as well.

You know, that's squeezing the margin on the cost of labour thing and what you do about it

because what you don't want to be is the motor trade looking at getting people out of the business

and having less people.

You know, when you like to grow things, you want to bring people in.

So I think that if you, with the Chinese brand, you'll have a great time.

Use car market, be all right.

After sales is we're having a good time with after sales.

I'm not sure about everybody else, but after sales is still quite strong.

It's all right.

2020 is going to be all right, I think.

I hope so.

I mean, the Chinese brand point is something that really interests me.

I mean, those manufacturers are absolutely piling into the UK at the moment.

I mean, it doesn't seem to be a week goes by without us running a story about another big group

taking on Geely or Cherry or other, any other one of these Chinese brands that come in here.

It does worry me a little bit though.

I mean, it just, it worries me on a number of levels.

It worries me on the fact that it's going to, what's it going to do to those brands that are already here

because it's going to really change the industry.

But also, we really have left the door open for these Chinese brands and when they're coming in to the UK,

unimpeded and look like they're going to clear up.

I mean, what's your, what was it about the Chinese brands that worried you?

Right.

When I went to live in China, somebody said, you're going to take your goggles off

because you're looking at the whole of this as a Westerner and it's not your world view.

This is a different culture.

And as I learned how to trade over there, learn how to deal with people,

they don't perceive some things the way you do.

So when you said, you would say, I don't agree with that's wrong.

Well, it's not wrong in their culture.

It's just a different way of doing business.

That's how they do business.

So there's quite a difference in contracts and things like that

between what a Westerner would look at a contract and somebody in China would look at it.

And I'm not saying which one's right, but it's different.

So if you're going in expecting a contract like you've had with the VW, for example,

and a commitment either side that, or maybe with BMW, which I was fortunate to do for a long time,

and you had a bad year with BMW, BMW got quite often step in and try and do something about that.

I think that's a complete different culture of the Chinese brand.

You're on your own.

The contract is the ISO is much weaker than we would have with the European manufacturer.

The Chinese have a lot more control.

So if you enter into dealing with any different culture, you've got to have your eyes open.

What is their cultural view on doing business?

It's very, very different from the UK in terms of dealer contracts, for example.

And I think that for me personally, that was a bit of a worry.

Unless that would change to be more like we were used to that.

I don't feel as if I'm on the safer ground as I did do with the European manufacturer.

So I think we always want to be like American dealers, didn't we,

with a lot of strength versus the manufacturer.

We never quite got there, did we?

I think we're even weaker again with the Chinese brands.

And I think that's something to be very careful about.

So could they put another dealership in your territory like that?

Would they think any different of it tomorrow?

We would think that's appalling.

They wouldn't. They and history.

That might be something that I would say is, well, I just want more to sell more cars.

What's the problem?

It's quite just, you need to understand that it's not going to be the same trading environment

or trading relationship with that culture as we're used to going forward.

And if you live with that, fantastic.

But if you expect to be the same, you're going to be disappointed.

And there's no point in getting angry about it because it's just different.

So you should have worked that out when you started.

So I think that difference is a big deal.

I think the other thing is if you're talking about a global level, you got, I mean, you know,

it's whether we can do anything about it, whether you have an opinion.

It's clearly a trade war.

So, you know, we are playing a part in that trade war.

Whereas America might not be because America's not seeing any Chinese cars going.

But we're seeing loads come in and that trade war, somebody loses a war normally.

And I just worry for the brands that I've grown up with in Europe that they can't win that one.

Because if it's, if it's, if it's all about who can make something the cheapest,

which the volume market is, well, we've already lost the Chinese have already won.

It's just a matter of time.

So what happens with those?

You know, you know the outcome of that.

It doesn't take rockers like this to work out.

If it's a trade war, somebody loses.

It's the European manufacturers.

When will they lose?

Because they are losing.

Unless something changes.

I think that's terrifying really because we've got to employ a lot of people in Europe

and great businesses with great brands.

We know what's happening.

It's just when, when does that come into a, what happens to that?

I would be worried about that.

So I kind of, I'm uncomfortable with that.

And that's a personal opinion.

I could be completely wrong, but it's just, I haven't been living in both areas.

So the knowledge I do have and what I've read, I don't, I don't like that story.

I'm not, I'm not a fan of it.

Are you surprised that the Chinese have been given such easy access to the UK car market?

Well, if you, if you look one out as I was growing up, you had, we as a family took different

franchises on at different periods of time.

We've got to be careful that we're not forgetting what's happened in the past.

You had the British manufacturers, didn't we?

Then we had the European manufacturers came in.

Then we had the Japanese manufacturers actually came in, didn't we?

Now with the Korean manufacturers, I think is probably the order, maybe.

Feels like that anyway.

And then we got the Chinese manufacturers.

So we've allowed different manufacturers to come in.

It's not always been great for the UK industry.

This seems a bit a step, another, another, a different level though, doesn't it?

Where this is different, this is different.

This is pricing to win business, you know, without any care for profitability by the

manufacturer because their government funded all of them.

So it's, it's, it's different this one.

I think we've been able to trade internationally quite well, but this is, this is different.

I am very surprised we haven't done something about it.

Well, I mean, my other concern with this is there's, there's very likely to be a change

of government in the, in, in the next couple of years.

They might be having free reign now, but what happens when we do have a change of governance

here in the UK?

Does that change?

And does that seriously affect all of these business plans that these cardio groups have,

they've bet their houses on?

I think I changed it.

So I was getting to as well.

So I took some of the Chinese franchise on, by the way, and I started to feel like this

when I had them, but I was too, I was too small.

See if I had like multiple franchises, like 20 odd manufacturers and blended over, you

or every manufacturer has its day, you could have probably dealt with that if you had a

number of manufacturers.

That's why I thought I'm not, I'm not actually big enough here.

But when you had, if you had them all, you could deal with that ups and downs like we

have done forever.

But the Chinese thing is different from the other franchises coming without a doubt.

And I think we all know that it's just, we're not quite sure what to do.

Are we?

And some of it is not within our power.

Some of it's within government, what the government's allowing.

You know, we all thought for a while that there'd be tariffs on the Chinese cars, didn't

we?

That felt like that's what would happen to protect that pricing.

It hasn't happened.

So I think it's a wait and see game.

I mean, you can see the trend.

You know what's going to happen unless something changes.

You can see it.

So will the government's doing anything about it?

I don't know.

Yeah, it'd be interesting to see what happens.

I mean, on a slightly different topic, let's talk a little bit about the foundation.

I mean, it's something that I think is absolutely fantastic that you do.

And I think many in the motor trade should be copying exactly the same thing.

Tell people how it works and the sort of stuff that you've done.

Yeah.

Well, it leads into something I want to maybe want to tell, invite folks to anyway, that

I know in the trade and the thought going through you guys are maybe the best way to

tell them.

Through the foundation, we try to put 10% of the profits away each year.

So we kind of kept quiet about what we gave money away to because I thought it was best

to keep it quiet a bit.

Because if you do it the wrong way, it looks like you are doing these things to sell more

cars and colleagues think that's a bit disingenuous.

You know, can we do the right thing because it's the right thing to do rather than just

keep selling?

So we've had some amazing stories with that.

I mean, I was in a car, my brother paid for a school in Uganda, which is basically a breeze

block school.

I think about £12,000 or something.

So he said, can you come over for the weekend and we'll open the school with the Northern

Irish Charity.

So I don't know why I went for a weekend.

It was cracker.

We flew to Uganda for the weekend.

Beautiful country, by the way.

Amazing.

We drove for seven hours, opened this school.

But as we opened the school, these two pickup trucks, like out of the movies, like our Rambo,

came up the hill.

These massive men got out of the back of these toyotas with huge machine guns, stood around

Richard and I as we were like cutting a ribbon and we were thinking, what on earth are we

doing in Uganda at the edge of the Congo?

Are we going to get a shot?

We didn't get a shot, thankfully.

But on the way back, I said to the guy in the car, so those schools and those kids are

amazing.

I was thinking that wasn't very expensive to build a school for like 300 kids.

So I said, well, we've committed to giving 10% the profits away.

And so we'll donate that for two years to you guys if you can give us some kind of business

plan of what you're going to do.

So we had two record years and at the end of the first three months, I sent him the

money and he said, I think you've sent me the wrong amount here because you've almost

done our five years worth of donation campaigning thing or whatever it would be.

I said, no, no, I said to give you 10% and that's been the 10% and that was the deal.

So that went on for two years and then we got busy with buying things.

Anyway, about four years later, I got the phone call saying, please, do you want to,

you better come back and see as diligence for what the foundation is given because it's

a proper foundation.

Yeah, I need to go and visit.

I've got the reports, but I better go and visit.

So I did a visit to the place and I can't explain what happened.

It was really emotional.

But we got off the plane.

We went for a weekend again.

Still didn't have the time, but the scale of what we're able to do because sometimes

the money goes further than other places around the world, isn't it?

But we helped 24,000 kids go to school, get a uniform, get a meal, get some books.

It taught the teachers, bought some lands that can do some farming, taught the communities

about how to treat children properly.

And so we went to one of the schools.

The entire town came out.

Well, it felt a bit awkward because you're the white guy again at the car and sometimes

doesn't feel great, does it?

But I got out and then there's a whole town came out that was dancing.

There must have been four, five thousand people there just to say thanks for giving

some money to the school.

So we've seen some like miracles come out of just trying to do the right thing.

And then we give, you know, the colleagues in the business quite often Christmas, we

did it again just now, give thousands of Christmas presents away.

And so all the colleagues over the years that worked with me, we would take off our uniforms,

go in unmarked cars, and we'd deliver gifts all over Scotland.

So quite often for quite a few years there, we'd done about 10,000 gifts.

We didn't tell anybody.

And so the people that received the gift didn't know it was us because we didn't want them

feeling like they owed us anything.

So if we just arrived and said we're a delivery company and delivered gifts, we thought that

was the most honourable thing to do the person that was getting them.

So we've done things like that all the time.

And that has attracted really good people to work in the company because they've said,

right, Pete, it's not all about how much money you can make because I see you're giving a

lot of it away.

So we'll give it proportionately away.

So it's business sense.

We can afford it.

We can't give 10% away and still have a business.

We probably shouldn't be running a business.

So we've seen some amazing things happen over that.

And so we were trying to work out what is, what do you give money to go and forward that

has a lasting impact.

And so my sister and I worked out a leadership program because we're interested in early

intervention, helping people out before the problem starts, which is going to kids then

having tough time.

And we also believe in the power of good leadership.

And we've seen the opposite of that around the world.

So how can we train people to make better decisions, basically?

So we put a program together called GEM Plus, which is going into all the schools in Scotland,

which is teaching meta skills in a kind of digital computer game type way.

So we're trying to train a whole generation of young people to be better leaders and make

better decisions.

Because I thought that was, that multiplies the money, doesn't it?

For years and years and years, you might not be able to measure it like you would like

to.

I helped buy 10,000 Christmas gifts, but you can do generational change.

So my sister and I are doing that.

So we've got really big take up on Scottish schools with that.

And the aim eventually is to get that pro to million young kids a year is the aim.

So when we got onto the leadership topic, we thought it's quite strange to teach young

people making great decisions and maybe not do any investment in older people like me.

How can I get better as a leader?

So I lead for a better example for my kids and the community I'm in things.

So we thought we put a leadership conference on the best one we could put on in the world.

So we went out in the world, who's the best speakers we could get who talk about servant

leadership, values based leadership, authentic leadership, not how much money you can make

and how many followers you can get, but like about telling the truth.

And so we put together a program of how do you manage yourself like a sports person would?

How do you manage the people around you?

So that could be your family or could be the business that you're in and how do you actually

have an impact on the community?

And who could teach us me the best way of doing that?

And who could show me the examples that they've done that?

So we booked the armadillo, which is a big concert hall in Glasgow for October the second

next year, 2026.

And so Chris always coming and doing an interview in him, which would be amazing.

He's just an absolute hero up here at the minute, probably all over the world.

We've got Sir Brian Souter who built the Sage Coach business with his sister.

We're trying to get him to interview the CEO of Greggs, who she's from Glasgow.

She's done an amazing job.

We've got a double Paralympian who's coming up, who's got an amazing story.

It was a Royal Marine beforehand.

We've got the first female RAF pilot that they ever had fighter pilots.

She's come doing a talk.

So we've got a whole other story, some people from the States as well, because if you go out and try and find the best in the world, America's bigger.

See if I can find more people.

So we've got a whole day of and we've funded the foundation to make sure the tickets are really cheap to come.

So it's called thecalling.scot.

And you can get tickets from January.

You can pre-order tickets for the tickets that should go on sale in February.

But we're trying to get 3,000 leaders together to try and create a space where you can meet people like-minded folks, could be from the motor trade, could be from charity, could be from church, could be from government,

where you meet together because we believe when a leader gets better, everybody wins.

So can you invest in leadership with adults and do one event, see what it's like, and then if that creates a bit of a movement, then we'll do it every year.

But we've seen a similar programme abroad and it worked really, really well.

So that's the 2nd of October next year.

So I was kind of hoping if we opened up the motor trade, some people might see some value in that.

I know I'm booking people that I would see value in because I desperately need to get better.

I know you know you're on weaknesses, don't you?

If I could learn off these guys here to learn how to manage my team better, could I take that back to my business?

So we imagine people buying like four or five tickets.

If it's in October, you're already thinking about the following year.

Could this be like a team session where you start as part of your strategy thinking of the following year?

Could you use this as some good value of an insight?

It's how you might learn better as a leader, learn better as your team.

So yeah, it's called TheCalling.scot.

It's 3,000 seats.

I think it'll take a start from £125.

This should be £700 with you.

But I'm trying to get the first event full and it finishes with the Red Hot Chili Pipers.

And if you don't know who they are, you need to check them online because they're a bandit, which is amazing.

So there's a bit of fun in there as well.

So it's supposed to be good fun.

You can ring your team to but learn and load.

So that's the kind of stuff we're doing with the foundation to try and impact those folks around us.

Maybe who we should be helping.

That sounds amazing, Peter.

Inspirational as always.

Can The Most Straight help you in any way with that event?

Well, there's a couple of things we're going to do.

I mean, we're not asking for anybody to give us any money because I think when you do these things,

you need to have the conviction, courage and conviction to do the first one.

I think we're trying to create a business club.

So I know some of the people I know in business said,

look, can I help you out to be part of it?

So there's a small business club you can join.

So if you have 20, 30 people will join that, which is basically get some tickets and give a wee bit of money.

And we advertise it so you can see and see if you're supporting.

So if you're in Scotland and the motor trades, probably a nice thing to be associated with.

So maybe somebody might want to do that.

And then we just want people to buy tickets, go online and buy some tickets.

You think of people close to home, don't you?

So who would you want to arrive at that?

It would be nice to see motor trade folk there because I understand that.

And no loads of people do the church community for me.

There might be some people for that.

And then local government here.

But just to try and inspire people, inspire them, equip them,

call them the calling because as a leader, you're really called to lead.

It's a big responsibility, isn't it?

And you know that as soon as you take anybody on, you think,

there's got mortgage to pay.

I need to keep getting better as a leader.

And sometimes we do really well as a leader and sometimes we can completely cock it up.

But you should always be trying to get a bit better as a leader when you're responsible for other people.

So this is part of our journey as a family, trying to use the money we've got to influence people.

And if you influence leaders, you influence loads of folk.

So we're hoping that if you're interested in getting better as a leader

and that could be making more money out of your business,

could be developing your people better.

That could be whatever.

It could be a football coach.

We're hoping people will come for the second of October

and we've got better deals in the hotels and all that sorted out.

So if you go online in February, you'll see access to the tickets and hotels

and transport and everything's done really well.

So done as best as we could do.

Peter, I wish you the best of luck with that.

It sounds absolutely fantastic.

I'll take it.

People can get in touch with you via LinkedIn if they want to.

Absolutely.

By the website.

The calling.

The calling.scot.

Yeah, it'd be great.

Amazing.

Well, thank you for joining us.

Inspirational as ever.

I'll hopefully stick around for some stories,

but John, we should probably do some of those.

Sure thing.

So James and I are going to run through our favorite stories of the week

and at the end Peter gets to decide which one of us chose the best ones

and who is the winner.

Apparently I won last week.

So I have to start or I get to start, I should say.

And I'm going to talk about, I think the EU's changed to what we're calling

the diesel ban.

So I think we will always slightly had a slightly different trajectory to the EU.

Did we not?

We've always been a little bit behind what they've done.

But in the last week, they've adjusted that.

What was the 2035 ban on, you know, well, they never called it a 2035 ban.

They called it, I think it was like by 2035, 2035 emissions across the vehicle fleet

had to be 100% reduction compared to, I believe it's 2021,

which is in effect a ban on new petrol and diesel vehicles, even plug-in hybrids.

They've watered it down ever so slightly now.

So it's a very complicated bit of legislation is going to get your head around,

but it's now going to be a 90% tailpipe emission drop compared to 2021 or whatever the year is,

which does leave a little gap for petrol and diesel cars,

mainly plug-in hybrids, one would imagine, to sneak in after 2035.

I mean, there's some other complications in this.

Like there's the remaining 10% of this target will, and I quote,

need to be compensated through the use of low carbon steel.

That means like low emission production steel, not steel with not any carbon in it,

or made like made in the union as well, or e fuels and bio fuels, which of course,

people do like to go on and on about, but I think we're still quite a long way away from making feasible for most people.

But there's some other slightly interesting things in this as well.

There's something around super credits for manufacturers that produce small electric cars.

And now to me, that means like your Dacia Spring or you've got a Renault Twingo pen here, conveniently enough.

But that kind of small bit of cheap mobility, but it's actually cars under 4.3 meters in length,

which conveniently, James, would you believe is the length of EW Golf.

So that's still quite a substantially sized car.

So manufacturers that produce those electric versions of those and sell them,

they will get 1.3 times the credit compared to a, let's say an electric SUV,

whatever to offset against the rest of their production stuff.

So of course, this has been met with a mixed reaction.

Some manufacturers understandably very on board VW said, yes,

makes economic sense, etc, etc.

Some like Volvo have said, well, to be honest, we are set up to go EV from 2030 or 2035, whatever they said.

We're going to carry on with that.

And why can't everyone else kind of catch up?

Yeah, but it's sort of raised some questions here in the UK.

Has it not around do we follow suit?

Because we are now, I will quote Robert Forrester.

I'm sure you'll talk about James, who's said we're out of lockstep with Europe,

which is a slightly strange turn of phrase.

But I don't think we've ever been in lockstep with Europe on many things.

But there we are.

Yeah, so we're a bit, we're out of alignment, aren't we?

So all these car manufacturers like Volkswagen have been given a reprieve in the biggest markets that they sell cars in.

But here we're still asking them to reduce their fleet emissions by a substantial amount.

Thoughts, James?

Well, I mean, this one, when it first came out, when I first spotted it,

there was a stories in the Telegraph and the Times saying that this was going to be completely changed and pushed back to 2040.

I think they were just talking about the ban completely.

And I think what was rumoured then and what had obviously been leaked was not the full details.

And now we're seeing the full details.

It has been, as you say, watered down quite considerably.

But it is a change, you know, and it is quite a considerable change.

And it's a long, it's a long way off what the rules that were set here in the UK, you know, we're talking 10 years here.

And I do, I think I will sort of mould this into the second story, which you've referenced there about about Robert Foster,

which we've published today.

He was speaking on BBC Radio 4 yesterday and he's called the government delusional over its new electric car targets.

He says, as you say, he thinks it's risk leaving the UK isolated from the rest of the global car industry.

And I do think there probably will need to be changes.

I mean, in my substack today, which has been published to subscribers, I've talked to a number of different experts,

car dealers, car manufacturer bosses, about their predictions for 2026.

And I'll just pick out one of those is Eric Druce from Stellantis, senior vice president of Stellantis.

And he tells me that he thinks there will be some changes next year.

He said, his quote was our friends in the EU are changing their trajectory period and the U turn on electrification in the US.

In my view, the UK needs to review its approach to these steep mandated targets and do so early in 2026.

And that's, that's what Robert Foster said, wasn't it?

He thinks it needs to be done early next year, these changes, because we're four short, four short years away from 2030,

that full ban on electric cars, which, you know, personally, only on, only on non hybridised James.

It's still, you know, it's a big, big change for a lot of people, a big change for a lot of people.

And I still think it's probably going to be quite hard.

Peter, what's your take on this?

I mean, what's your take on the whole electric car front?

I think the country's not ready for it, because it hasn't got the infrastructure as long and short of it.

If the company, if the organization of the whole thing is actually stitched together properly, it would probably be doable.

But it's not.

And then you've unfortunately got politicians making decisions, which are affecting, you know, how the manufacturer sets its strategy up in its investment plan.

So it's very difficult for a manufacturer to suddenly make factories that do electric wheels and chop and change.

So no wonder they've got, they've got mixed messages because of all the investment they've done and what they're going to have to write off.

So that's a real model for the manufacturer.

And meanwhile, the customer, the cars are still too expensive in retail, and we don't have enough charging points.

And unless the prices come down and people can use them properly, it's going to be very difficult for consumers.

So you can be environmentally friendly, as you want, or whatever view you have.

But there's a practicalities, isn't there, of manufacturers not showing what to make and the consumer having rather expensive car and not the place to charge it.

So no wonder it's causing a lot of grief.

And I think the government needs to change, change what they're doing.

They need to come up with a strategy that enables people to get from where they are to an electric car over an appropriate period of time.

I thought they would done hybrids for longer and just changed it over two sections.

If we'll go to hybrid, then we'll go to electric.

And that gives us the time to get the infrastructure built in.

But again, you'll have a different conversation between what the Chinese want and the rest of the world.

So there's that conversations going on as well.

So you mentioned two manufacturers there owned by different companies who've got a clearly different opinion.

Again, it's that trade war coming in.

Guys, would you mind if I did a shoot?

Because I've just got to get in the car and get up to Perth.

Is that all right?

Absolutely fine.

John and I will continue with our stories and then one of us will work out who is the best at the end of it.

But Peter, very nice to see you.

Thank you for that.

Have a very, have a very Merry Christmas.

You too guys. Thanks for your time.

God bless.

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Now, back to the podcast.

Well, John, I mean, it's the first for the Cardiola podcast.

Whatever you said is clearly upset Peter Vardy so much that he's decided to leave the podcast.

He's a very busy man, James.

He is a busy man. I mean, we're glad he gave up his time to come on and talk to us.

But this is going to be awkward now because we've now got to work out.

We're going to have to decide between us who wins.

We are. But anyway, we've got more stories to get through.

Shall I do a story?

Because you've already done, you wheeled in, you wrote, what's the word?

You combined two stories there.

So is it my go?

No, it's my go, James.

I'm so confused. Peter, you've confused me.

Right, I'm going to go back to talking about JLR, which we talked about last week,

which is the news that Jeremy Govan may or may not have left the company.

Nobody seems to know.

So JLR actually have released a statement about this now, which is, and I quote,

I'm going to get to the quote, it is untrue that we have terminated Jeremy Govan's employment

and we do not intend further to comment on speculative stories.

The end.

But he has left.

I don't know.

They refuse to comment on further speculative stories.

I mean, that opens to he may have left, he may not have left.

He may have just been given some assistance to carry a large box to the front door of Gayden's HQ.

I don't know anything could be going on, but we're going to get to the point where it's going to be like

Jeremy Govan has not been seen in public for the last X amount of weeks.

Where is he?

I mean, I say that because as we speak, James, Jaguar have been on a PR blitz around the type 00

and they've been putting journalists, not us, I add, not Lambitta,

putting journalists behind the wheel of this very square, very long, very expensive machine

and driving around various tracks in the UK.

And Jerry has been nowhere to be seen, which is surprising, given that it was sort of his baby.

So we don't know what's going on there.

It's still a bit of a nightmare to try and unpick.

Who knows?

I'm going to make a prediction that the 21 word statement that issued was issued by JLR

went through so many different lawyers before it was issued and had so many revisions

that it is probably one of the most read texts of JLR this year.

I think that's, yeah, that's probably true.

I just, I don't know how they can, something weird is going on, basically, isn't it?

Because I don't know how you can, how you can not comment on something like this

when someone so important and such a figurehead in the company is alleged to have disappeared,

why you can't just say, no, he still works here or no, he doesn't.

Very strange.

Anyway, we'll find out more in the new year, I suppose.

We will.

Peter, what do you think?

Oh, sorry. No, Peter's not here.

Okay, let me, let's move us on to the next story.

I'll pick a story.

And I'm going to go with John.

Am I allowed to move on?

Yeah, move us on.

Come on, carry on.

I'm going to pick the most wanted used cars of 2025.

So this is data that was supplied to us by Auto Trader, who has looked at all of the millions

of leads it sent car dealers this year.

And in doing so have told, can tell us which are the most popular used cars,

which models were most in demand.

So they looked at all of those leads that were sent and came up with a percentage.

So it's the percentage of the 15 million or so leads they sent car dealers.

How many of that were of those leads were sent to certain models?

Have I explained that properly, John?

Not really, but carry on.

Okay.

Anyway, number one, Volkswagen Golf.

Unsurprisingly, 3.4% of leads.

Second place BMW three series with 2.6%.

I maybe should have started this the other way around.

And third, the Ford Focus 2.4%.

I did also think in fourth place Ford Fiesta into with 2.3% of all inquiries.

Interesting that to Ford models that have since been discontinued or are discontinued are still

so popular, those used car buyers.

And just taking us back to those, those conversations we had last week about Ford

bringing back a Fiesta probably makes sense.

I mean, it is still so popular, isn't it?

I'll be honest, James, I'm not to be completely pessimistic for Christmas.

I don't think this is that interesting data because it's just print out of the most popular cars in the UK.

But what I am going to ask you is going through this top 10.

How many of these you have cash guys?

You got any of them?

No.

Polos?

Yeah.

Got two of those.

Oh, okay.

That's something Corsa?

No.

A-class?

No.

C-class?

Definitely not.

One series?

No.

Fiesta?

No.

Focus?

No focuses.

Three series?

Yes.

Got one of those?

And you know, I've got two golfs.

I've got two golfs.

So it's not too bad, is it?

Yeah.

Three out of 10.

Great.

Funny, Jimny's not on this list, James.

Shame, but a very good car.

If you want one, clevercarcollection.com.

Very good.

Bug over.

Your go.

Okay.

I'm going to talk briefly about the FCA.

I can't really talk briefly about the FCA.

I'm going to talk about the FCA.

I think the listeners would prefer if you did talk to me about the FCA.

I'll try.

Well, they've closed their window of whatever the word is, opportunity for stakeholders,

shall I say, to get in touch with the FCA and say what they thought about the proposed,

what's the word, remuneration that customers were going to get, which was previously on

the lines of the FCA said, people will get an average of 700 pounds as compensation.

And they laid out three tests.

Did they not?

One of which was has the dealer offered any, was it, was there only one finance company

available from that dealer?

There was something else around.

I can't remember what the other ones were, but that's quite a big one because that effectively

talks about every franchise dealer in the UK, generally speaking, doesn't it?

You've got your one finance provider, which is the manufacturer.

I mean, am I wrong, James?

You, a lot of the time, a lot of the time there's not a second provider for a franchise dealer.

I would think they've had quite a bit of pushback on this stuff.

So they have now suggested that they're going to tweak the proposal ever so slightly because

one of the things, for example, a case that Nikhil Rathi, who's the head of the FCA.

Yes, he's quite senior, whatever his chief executive.

He pointed out, you know, there are cars sold on 0% finance.

I mean, 0% finance is a thing of the past, isn't it?

But there were cars sold with 0% finance that would be included in this redress scheme.

And really, if it's been sold with no interest, how can you justify giving people money back

that they haven't actually spent in interest?

I mean, exactly.

My mum bought a car with 0% finance in about 2008 because, of course, that was the days of 0% finance.

That would have been included in this scheme.

She could have emailed and said, I was really upset with the way that they gave me some free money with no interest whatsoever.

And she might have got £700.

But that's one of the slight sticking points that they've had here.

I mean, what did you think of this, James?

Well, I thought the comment I liked the most was Nikhil Rathi's telling MPs that the FCA is open to changes,

changes if presented with strong evidence, he said.

And he called on lenders to offer constructive solutions, not just criticisms,

which is the sort of thing I'd say to my daughter when she comes in and moans about my roast dinners.

It was, yeah, not the best of comments.

Shall I let the podcast listeners in on some blackboard media information, which is the famous James Bugger catchphrase?

Whenever you'd come up to his desk, his big desk in our office, he would say,

don't bring me problems, bring me solutions.

That's basically what Nikhil Rathi has said.

It has, yeah, it has.

So I like him.

He's a nice guy.

Yeah, nice guy, very, very sensible.

But yeah, no, interesting that they might change this all seriousness, John,

because it was sort of rushed.

It felt like it was rushed to do a little bit this kind of redress scheme.

So it'd be interesting to see what actually happens as a result.

Over to you.

Oh, dear.

Have I got any more stories?

Yeah, I'm just going to pick one last story, which is news from MG.

We've talked a lot about Chinese car brands.

They posted their accounts for this year this week, which interestingly restated their accounts for the previous year.

So MG, MG Motor UK to actually turned a 1.3 million pound loss in 2023,

because they had to restate those accounts.

So previously, they'd made a 17.7 million pound profit, John,

but they've had to restate those year's accounts because of a provision.

A road calculator.

Yes, a road calculator.

So I can't get my words out today.

A provision for warranty claims, which is quite interesting, isn't it?

It says we've previously accumulated losses from prior years,

which were primarily funded by NAC China.

Over the last four years, they say their trading position has considerably improved,

because last year they made a profit of 6.9 million pounds.

So they bounce back, some would say.

But yes, interestingly, they had to restate those accounts for 2023 as a result of that warranty problems.

Just to translate that into English, does that effectively,

am I to take that, that they calculated they would need to have a certain amount of warranty provision,

warranty part, as you would put it, James?

And they've got to the end of financial year and gone,

actually, we spent quite a bit more on warranty.

Well, they say, their quote is, John,

it was restated due to changes and reassessment of the data

used to estimate the level of warranty provision required.

So I mean, you probably need to put that through chat GPT to see what it actually means.

But yeah, it sounds like there was a there was a rounding error somewhere in the accounts.

Okay, interesting.

Well, I'm out of stories.

And also really awkwardly, I can't even remember what you talked about,

because normally that's the guest job.

The guest is no longer here.

Well, I'm going to squeeze one more in.

Are you?

Very, very briefly, which is we've had some more news from Mitsubishi about their plans for the UK,

which is basically what we thought they were going to do,

because they came out about two weeks ago and said,

we're coming back to the UK with some cars that we also sell around the world.

And I mean, yeah, well, I'm back with forklifts like, yeah.

But they've now confirmed at least two model names, which are coming back.

One is the L 200, which you could absolutely see coming because there is,

there's not a lot of choice for pickup truck drivers.

It was a you are basically a ranger.

Yeah, a ranger or a ranger with a VW badge on it or an IZUZU.

So Mitsubishi is bringing the L 200 back, which is good news,

because I suspect it's probably quite a good bit of product because the old L 200 always was.

And there were lots of loyal L 200 owners who probably are about to need a new one,

because it's been a good five years since the last one came out.

So I think they'll do quite well with that.

And the other one is the Outlander PHEV, which is interestingly now largely based on the Nissan X trail,

but he's a plug-in hybrid, whereas Nissan don't do a plug-in hybrid version of the X trail.

And as you say, James, we saw quite a few of those in driving around Japan.

It's very big in America as well. It's a tried and tested product now.

So they might do quite well with that.

Unfortunately, everyone's going to have to pay 1.5 PMR levy on it because it's PHEV.

But apart from that, it's a perfect time to bring it back to the UK, I think.

And available as a seven seater for the first time, which I thought was quite interesting,

because the choices seven seaters are not huge when it comes to SUVs,

and they're normally very expensive.

So if they can get the price point right for this, I think they do quite well.

Yeah, as ever, I think it'll come down to they can get on board as dealers, though.

I did think I was thinking about this this morning when I was writing my substack,

because I included that in it too.

And I just thought it's going to be very strange to go back on Mitsubishi launches, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah, hello again.

Remember us?

Yeah, exactly.

Well, the funny thing is, as well, didn't they, when they evacuated to the UK, should we say,

they sold their building in Sirencesta, the big Mitsubishi nerve centre on the roundabout opposite Tesco.

And then I think they moved into the IM's headquarters in Birmingham and then moved back again.

So they're currently back in.

I think they're leasing it back from whoever's bought it.

So it's sort of like back in the world exactly as it was five years ago.

It's very strange.

I loved that office.

It was so, it was so car manufacturer off the 80s that have made loads of money and want to make it look really, really cool and show it off, wasn't it?

It was.

It was very like mirrors and waterfalls in there.

Marble.

Yeah, marble.

Yeah.

Yes.

Very, very posh officers.

Anyway, John, let's bring into a close.

Okay.

I think we're not, I'm not going to argue for 10 minutes about who's won.

So I think it's just called a draw.

Is that fair?

Well, I mean, if that's, if that's what the listeners want, that's what they're going to get.

Yes, we'll go with that.

All right.

Well, thank you for listening to this slightly unusual podcast, but it's before Christmas.

So we've got away with it, but we are back next week.

Yes.

With a Christmas special where nobody will win either probably because there's four people who have to vote for four people.

So we're just going to do a Christmas quiz.

It's going to be very exciting and the listeners will be able to play along with us at home and have lots of fun.

Well, where Christmas jumpers, they can do it when they're in their cars and have fun.

Christmasy festive.

Okay.

Lovely.

Very well.

Well, all that's left for me to say is thank you to Peter who's coming on his way to Perth, I believe.

And thank you to James.

And thank you.

What?

I was just waving to Peter.

Oh, right.

Fair enough.

And thank you for listening.

We'll be back next week, as I've said, with a different episode.

So make sure you're subscribed.

Take me notified when that goes live.

If you want to check out the stories you mentioned today, take a look in the show notes below.

We'll head to Cardi the magazine.co.uk.

We've ended this slightly early because James has to go for a Christmas meal with his builders.

Thanks for listening and goodbye.

EU adjusts 2035 petrol ban, FCA could tweak finance compensation scheme, and where is Gerry McGovern? - with Peter Vardy, episode 236

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