Travis and guest Jared from CarBuzz dive into a lively discussion about the latest in the automotive world, covering topics like Chevy's new Silverado, the electric Dodge Charger, and the ongoing debate over what truly defines a sports car. They also tackle listener comments, share five-star reviews, and engage in playful banter about the merits of various vehicles, including the Mazda Miata and the Fiat Multipla. The episode features games that challenge the hosts to defend unconventional automotive opinions, making for an entertaining and informative listen.
Welcome back to Auto Buyer’s Guide! In this jam-packed episode, Travis returns from travel and we’re joined by Jared from CarBuzz to break down the biggest car stories, hottest debates, and most questionable opinions in the auto world.
Rumors around the next-generation Chevy Silverado
The rising cost of new cars
The controversial electric Dodge Charger
Extended-range EVs and hybrids
Changing regulations in the U.S. and Europe
Kia’s expanding (and possibly confusing) lineup
And a series of deliberately absurd debate games
At a deeper level, however, the show revolves around one central tension:
Most loud opinions about cars come from people who don’t buy new cars—while the industry is built almost entirely around people who do.
That tension explains nearly every disagreement discussed in the episode.
The first substantive topic is the Chevy Silverado, specifically a new patent filing that hints at the next generation of GM’s full-size truck. The hosts note that it’s unusual for this information to surface via the patent office rather than the usual leak channels, which lends credibility to the rumors.
Key points on the next Silverado:
Expected to remain evolutionary, not revolutionary
Likely to share much of its structure with the outgoing model
Rumored new V8 engine family with larger displacements (5.7L and possibly 6.6L)
Continued reliance on pushrod architecture, which GM engineers favor for cylinder deactivation
There’s a recognition that while enthusiasts may crave radical redesigns, GM’s success with the Silverado comes from refinement, not reinvention. The 5.3-liter V8, while not universally beloved, is efficient, durable, and deeply embedded in GM’s manufacturing ecosystem.
A recurring theme emerges here:
Car companies don’t abandon proven hardware unless they’re forced to.
3. “What Have You Had It With?”: Bad Comparisons and Internet Brain Rot
One of the most animated segments is the “What Have You Had It With?” discussion, where frustration spills over about how cars are compared online.
The core complaint is simple:
People constantly compare cars that are not meant to compete.
Examples include:
Comparing a Dodge Charger EV to a Tesla Model 3
Dismissing large sedans or SUVs because a smaller car is “better in every way”
Ignoring fundamental differences in size, purpose, and use case
The hosts argue that this kind of commentary is intellectually lazy. A Model 3 may be quicker, cheaper, and more efficient—but it does not:
Seat adults comfortably in the back
Offer the same interior volume
Deliver the same highway presence or ride character
This leads directly into the electric Dodge Charger, which becomes a lightning rod (pun intended) for this kind of flawed comparison.
4. The Electric Dodge Charger: Dumb, Brilliant, and Very Dodge
The electric Dodge Charger is described as simultaneously ridiculous and perfectly on-brand.
What the Charger EV is:
Enormous (over 207 inches long)
Extremely heavy (approaching three tons)
Fitted with absurdly wide, expensive performance tires
Shockingly capable on a skidpad and figure-eight test
Able to drift, do donuts, and behave like a traditional muscle car
What it is not:
A Tesla Model 3 competitor
A minimalist efficiency exercise
An enthusiast “purist” vehicle
The hosts emphasize that Dodge didn’t try to make a sensible EV. Instead, they asked:
“What would Dodge do if it were electric?”
The answer was:
Make it huge
Make it loud (via synthesized sound)
Make it fast
Make it impractical
Make it unmistakably Dodge
In that sense, the Charger EV is compared favorably to the original Hellcat—a car that was never logical, but deeply aligned with its brand identity.
5. The Bigger Problem: Who Actually Buys New Cars?
This discussion leads naturally into one of the most important points of the episode:
Car companies do not design cars for the used market.
New car buyers tend to be:
Over 50 years old
Homeowners
Higher income
Less interested in manuals, convertibles, or “raw” driving experiences
More interested in comfort, tech, AWD, and convenience
The hosts openly acknowledge their own aging preferences, noting that desires change over time—even when that realization is uncomfortable.
6. The Maverick Lesson: Small Trucks, Big Demand
The Ford Maverick is used as an example of what happens when a manufacturer cautiously tests the market and is surprised by demand.
Key takeaways:
Ford and Hyundai (with the Santa Cruz) dipped their toes into the compact truck segment
Ford’s hybrid Maverick, initially seen as niche, exploded in popularity
Demand caught even Ford off guard
Other manufacturers quickly realized they had misread the market
The irony is that the Maverick succeeds precisely because it is not a “sports truck”. It’s practical, efficient, and affordable—qualities that resonate with real buyers, not just online commenters.
7. Extended-Range EVs: Solving the Wrong Problem (Or the Right One?)
Extended-range EVs (EREVs) and plug-in hybrids generate mixed reactions.
On paper:
They offer electric driving with gasoline backup
They reduce range anxiety
They can make sense for towing or long-distance use
In practice:
Many owners don’t plug them in
Fuel economy suffers if treated like regular hybrids
Marketing terms blur the line between EVs and PHEVs
A key concern is charging access. The hosts note that many newer EV buyers live in:
Apartments
Condos
HOA-restricted housing
Without home charging, the EV ownership experience deteriorates quickly. The fear is that EREVs will become gas cars in practice, undermining their intended purpose.
8. The $50,000 Reality: New Car Prices and What People Actually Finance
One of the most sobering discussions centers on cost.
Facts discussed:
The average new car price in the U.S. exceeds $50,000
To absurd, entertaining choices like a six-door Cadillac Fleetwood limo
The point isn’t the specific vehicles—it’s the acknowledgment that price ceilings shape real decisions far more than internet arguments do.
9. Charger Sixpack vs. Charger EV: A Brand Identity Crisis
The conversation returns to the Dodge Charger, this time focusing on the Sixpack version with a turbocharged inline-six engine.
While objectively impressive:
550 horsepower
Modern engineering
BMW-like refinement
It presents a branding problem.
Dodge built its reputation on:
V8 noise
Excess
Aggression
Anti-European bravado
Now, Dodge is selling:
An EV muscle car
An inline-six that echoes BMW engineering
The hosts question whether Dodge’s traditional audience—already alienated by a three-year gap in Charger availability—will return at all.
Brand loyalty, once broken, is hard to rebuild.
10. Arizona’s Speed Limit Proposal: Freedom vs. Reality
A lighter but revealing topic is Arizona’s proposed daytime speed limit removal on certain highways.
Key observations:
Studies suggest average speeds don’t increase much when limits are removed
Most drivers settle around 77–78 mph regardless
Nighttime limits would remain for safety
The hosts joke that this works in Germany largely because of driver discipline, not just road design—a quality they are skeptical exists universally in the U.S.
11. Kia’s Lineup: Too Much of a Good Thing?
Kia’s expanding lineup sparks debate:
K4 hatchback
Seltos hybrid
Niro
Overlapping segments
Questions arise:
Is Kia spreading itself too thin?
Why does Kia lack a true performance “N” equivalent?
Why does brand positioning feel inconsistent?
Despite this, hatchbacks are defended as viable in the U.S., citing:
"But before we get into the rest of the viewer comments and questions, let's talk Chevy's new Silverado..."
The Silverado 1500 is a big truck from Chevrolet that can pull heavy loads and has many engine choices. It’s popular in the U.S. for work and family use.
The Chevrolet Silverado 1500 is a full‑size pickup truck that has been a staple of the American market for decades. It’s known for its towing capacity, durability, and various engine options.
Car
Chevrolet 6.2 liter engine
"Well, it'd be interesting because Chevy doesn't do cylinder deactivation on the 6.2 liter engine currently only on the 5.3."
Chevrolet’s 6.2‑liter V8 is a big, powerful engine that gives trucks a lot of pulling power.
The 6.2‑liter V8 is a high‑output engine used in many Chevrolet trucks and SUVs, known for its strong torque and performance.
"That's my big thing. They'll say, oh, well, you know, this thing is shit because a Model 3 is way better in every way. Well, I wouldn't buy that because a BMW M3 is better in every way. And my internal monologue is something along the lines of, well, no shit, Sherlock. A C-Class is better in every way versus a GLS if we're talking about efficiency, performance and handling and whatever, but they're not the same fucking thing. It doesn't seat seven people. It's not a big SUV. It doesn't tow stuff. It's not a big car. So that's what gets me there. We recently had some posts around the Dodge Charger EV, which, you know, Dodge Charger EV is Dodge Charger EV, right? It's a weird thing that God knows why Dodge did it. But in general terms, it's not a bad quote unquote EV."
"And everybody else in the market goes, oh, why would we? Why would Dodge or Chevy build a small truck? Because Ford did it and no one cares. Luckily, the Maverick's doing really well. But you get my point. But the Maverick's a good example in a way because Maverick comes out and Ford was willing to stick their toes in the water."
"I worked at Tesla when autopilot first came out. And I said, what the company told me..."
Autopilot is a feature in Tesla cars that can help steer, accelerate, and brake on the highway, but it still needs a driver to pay attention.
Autopilot is Tesla’s advanced driver-assistance system that provides semi-autonomous driving features such as lane keeping and traffic-aware cruise control.
"These are going to be so expensive because they need to have 100 kilowatt hour battery"
A 100 kWh battery is a big storage of electricity that lets a car run for many miles on electric power before needing to plug in again.
A 100 kWh battery pack provides a large amount of electrical energy, allowing an electric or hybrid vehicle to travel long distances before recharging.
"Well since the website lists the starting MSRP at forty two thousand dollars even. Does it count."
MSRP is the price a car maker says you should pay for a new vehicle before any sales talk or deals. It’s the starting point for figuring out how much you might owe on a loan.
MSRP stands for Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price, the base price a car manufacturer recommends dealers charge before any discounts or negotiations.
"and all wheel drive because it does like literally everything..."
It means the car can send power to all four wheels at once, which helps on slippery roads.
All-wheel drive (AWD) is a drivetrain that sends power to all four wheels simultaneously, improving traction and handling in various driving conditions.
Car
Polestar XC40
"They're not perfect and they're way less expensive than an XC 40 which is probably you know five percent more practical."
The Polestar XC40 is a small electric SUV that gives you more room for passengers and cargo compared to the Polestar 2. It’s a good choice if you need extra space.
The Polestar XC40 is an electric compact crossover SUV, offering more space and practicality than the Polestar 2 while sharing many components.
"I also look you can get a Polestar two and I would actually be tempted to lean toward Polestar two."
The Polestar 2 is a battery‑powered car that looks like a sleek, modern sedan. It’s popular for people who want an electric vehicle with good performance and a clean look.
The Polestar 2 is a fully electric compact sedan from Volvo’s performance brand, known for its minimalist Scandinavian design and solid range.
"So that really limits things down to basically like Kia Sportage Hyundai Tucson plug in hybrid maybe would squeak in under the water"
A plug‑in hybrid is a car that can run on both gasoline and electric power. You can charge it from a wall outlet, so you might drive some miles without using gas.
A plug‑in hybrid (PHEV) is a vehicle that combines an internal combustion engine with an electric motor and a battery that can be charged from an external power source. It allows short trips on electricity alone, reducing fuel use.
"Just such a great little if you just need a small crossover that's also hilarious basically a hot hatchback twenty three thousand miles. If you want an EV I found a twenty twenty three certified pre-owned Audi for e-tron. So basically a luxury ID for twenty thousand miles for twenty five grand EV depreciation."
"I think it kind of just has to do with what this car is and how nothing else like it exists. Whether you're kind of talking about the four door model or the two door model because let's take the two door model because there there's really nothing else like this because you want the Camaro's gone. There's no more."
"but other manufacturers have, and they say that the hatch shoppers tend to gravitate towards top end trims."
When a car comes in different levels, the "top end trims" are the fancy ones with extra options and a higher price.
"Top end trims" refers to the highest‑specification versions of a car model, usually featuring more luxury features, better performance parts, and higher price points.
"but these goalposts have moved in the past for California's Zev mandate is not the first one they've had."
A ZEV mandate is a rule that says car makers must sell some cars that don’t use gasoline or diesel. It helps the environment by encouraging electric cars.
The Zero‑Emission Vehicle (ZEV) mandate is a regulation that requires automakers to sell a certain percentage of electric or zero‑emission vehicles in a given market, such as California. It aims to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and promote clean transportation.
"That's the 400 volt EGMP platform. Yeah, we're not getting that."
The EGMP platform is a common base that lets Hyundai and Kia build many different electric cars using the same basic design, making them cheaper to make.
EGMP stands for Electric Global Modular Platform, a chassis architecture developed by Hyundai and Kia to support a range of electric vehicles with shared components and scalable battery sizes.
"But it was delayed because of, you guessed it, tariffs because they actually had to build a new factory to move production"
Tariffs are extra fees that a country charges on cars or parts coming from other countries. They can make it more expensive to buy or build things there.
Tariffs are taxes imposed by a government on imported goods, which can increase the cost of production and affect where companies choose to build factories.
"That's the only thing that I can trade in my lease for. No, I'm going to go buy a Tesla model three."
A trade-in means you give your old car to a dealer and they give you money that counts toward buying a new one. It can make the price of the new car lower.
A trade-in is an arrangement where a vehicle owner exchanges their current car for credit toward the purchase of another vehicle, often through a dealership or leasing company.
"up front in both of those vehicles. The only part of the frame that's unique in the F-150 is the part between the front and the back where you got the battery"
"The diesel upgrade, which like the drive experience of the diesel and the EV to me seems similar in some of its benefits."
A diesel upgrade means changing the car’s engine so it uses diesel fuel, which can give more power and better mileage for certain jobs.
A diesel upgrade refers to replacing or modifying a vehicle’s engine or powertrain so that it runs on diesel fuel instead of gasoline, often to improve torque, fuel efficiency, or durability.
"But the diesel is, you know, in a heavy duty truck, that's a many, many thousands of dollars upgrade."
A heavy duty truck is a big vehicle built to carry heavy stuff, like trucks that pull trailers or move big equipment.
A heavy duty truck is a commercial vehicle designed for hauling large loads, often with stronger engines and reinforced frames compared to passenger trucks.
"the pro power on board, which is that that's the best feature, but you can already get that today."
It’s a feature that lets you use the truck’s electric system to power things like jackhammers or lights, so you don’t have to keep the engine running.
Pro Power is Ford’s Power‑On‑Demand system, which allows a vehicle to run its electric motor or generator to provide auxiliary power for tools and equipment without running the gasoline engine.
"Like PG and he has micro grid forming trucks that they will send out. They have their own company that does extended range EV or serial hybrid conversions for some of these heavy duty trucks."
These trucks can set up a small power network on their own, so if the main electricity line goes down, they can keep lights and appliances running nearby.
Micro grid forming trucks are specialized vehicles equipped to create temporary, localized power grids (microgrids) that can supply electricity independently from the main grid. They are used to restore power during outages or support remote operations.
"[5794.3s] Front wheel drive is the only drive you should have rear wheel drive should be banned."
In a rear wheel drive car, the engine pushes the wheels at the back of the vehicle to move it forward.
Rear wheel drive (RWD) is a drivetrain where the engine powers the rear wheels, often preferred for performance and balanced handling.
Select text to request an explanation
Hello and welcome to another auto buyer's guide episode. Today we have Travis back from his travels and of course we have our guest Jared from Carbuzz. Jared, where can we find you in all the buzzing?
You can find me on Carbuzz.com on the Carbuzz TikTok and YouTube channels.
So in this review, we're going to be talking five star reviews, Chevy's new Silverado, what we have had it with this week, talking about the cost of new cars, the electric Dodge Charger muscle car, whether it's right or whether it's wrong.
And then we will be playing some games. So stay tuned to the end of the episode where you were here or someone have to explain to us all why the Miata is not a sports car.
Budget your time. You will want to miss it.
Well, again, big welcome to Jared for joining us from Carbuzz. Travis, we have a five star review. We probably have to start there.
We do one of our favorite things ever. We've got a username that is mostly characters, but favorite auto podcast five stars by far one of the most informative and user friendly podcasts out there for automotive information regarding new cars.
Lots of good info, couple of the very listener friendly format. One of the first, if not the first podcast I listened to in my rotation. Alex, it's been a while since I've considered myself as an in rotation kind of guy, but good to hear that we're in there.
I know. And if you have not submitted a five star review, it really does help us out. So Apple podcasts is the place to go for the five star reviewing. Remember to rate, like, subscribe, all those things.
Also, you can send us your comments and questions to hey at auto buyers guide.com and you can give us a jingle on the regular old telephone at 669-842-1947.
But before we get into the rest of the viewer comments and questions, let's talk Chevy's new Silverado, which has unceremoniously been dropped by the patent office, apparent Jared.
Yeah, what a what a way for it to get dropped. I'm sure Chevy was not happy about that.
It's normally the Chinese technology agency, their patent office basically that drops patents on everybody. This one kind of did surprise me.
Well, wouldn't you know, I bet you Chevy is probably not planning to sell the new Silverado 1500 in China. That's probably why it wasn't dropped there.
Honestly, my biggest question is how new is this going to be? Because GM has put a ton of money and resources towards electrification, which they are slowly rolling back on, but that's been impactful over the last couple years, which is when this has all been in development.
Yeah, the rumor mill is saying that it will be a next generation Silverado and that will get new engines, probably refreshed transmissions.
But I'm sure it's going to share liberally with the outgoing model as much as makes sense there. But the big thing is supposed to be the new engine line at which they're saying are going to be bumped displacement wise up to 5.7 and 6.6 liters up from 5.362.
Hmm, that'd be interesting. Still pushrods?
Yeah, I would go with probably yes, because if they plan on doing cylinder deactivation, engineers say that cylinder deactivation is easier to do on a pushrod engine.
Well, it'd be interesting because Chevy doesn't do cylinder deactivation on the 6.2 liter engine currently only on the 5.3. I don't love the 5.3 liter engine as far as like base engines.
It's just, it's fine. It's not my favorite. It doesn't sound great. It's kind of weak as far as base engines go. I prefer like a 2.7 EcoBoost for my money.
I've always kind of surprised about the 5.3 because the 5.3 exists, I think, just because you want a V8, right?
But then I would rather have Ford's 5.0 liter and Ram's 5.7 over Chevy's 5.3, but it is pretty efficient.
Honestly, and it's just going to sound like a bunch of truck people or car reviewers doing the same thing. Why would you not go with that diesel? It's a fantastic little engine.
So I've got a 5.7 right now. It's decades old, so kind of interesting to see that making its way back. And obviously, if they're going to do a displacement increase, they can't just so, oh, hey, everything's a little bit bigger.
You've got to spend more time on that engine if you're going to spend any time on the engine. But again, I just wonder how much effort has really gone into it. And I think, sadly, they're going to end up falling behind because now just a few days ago before recording this, Ford says,
we're going to do something different with our trucks and we're going to put an extended range electric version, how it goes light and in comes this extended range. Ram eventually might build the extended range they've been talking about for a couple years.
That rev is coming. Sure. That's what we hear. No word from Chevy, though, on any of that. So that that's one thing that I would have loved to hear next gen. And there's more to come, even if it was just this little crumb of something.
I don't know. New Travis, it's called the Rev because it's becoming for Rev Ver.
I forgot to laugh there for a second. The Silverado rumor mill says that it's supposed to be a new next generation V engine family so more than just a displacement bump. But what that means in GM terms, I, you know, we'll have to see how that goes.
But let's move on to our next topic, which is the end of the year. What have you had it with in the automotive industry? So many things. I'll go first here. I have had it this last week with people commenting about things and comparing cars out of context in the comments.
That's my big thing. They'll say, oh, well, you know, this thing is shit because a Model 3 is way better in every way. Well, I wouldn't buy that because a BMW M3 is better in every way. And my internal monologue is something along the lines of, well, no shit, Sherlock.
A C-Class is better in every way versus a GLS if we're talking about efficiency, performance and handling and whatever, but they're not the same fucking thing. It doesn't seat seven people. It's not a big SUV. It doesn't tow stuff. It's not a big car. So that's what gets me there.
We recently had some posts around the Dodge Charger EV, which, you know, Dodge Charger EV is Dodge Charger EV, right? It's a weird thing that God knows why Dodge did it. But in general terms, it's not a bad quote unquote EV.
The range is not far off an Ionic 5N because this thing has 325 with tires. The tires are crazy stupid. It weighs three fucking tons, right? It's a huge car. It's 207 inches long. This thing is massive. It's a massive, massive thing, which is all kinds of dumb, right?
But it's just not a Model 3. So like, is Model 3 better? Is it cheaper? Is it whatever? I mean, if you want a smaller car that's quicker, zero to 60, sure. But if you want something with a backseat the size of a living room that can somehow still go zero to 60 and three, two, then, you know, hey, there's a Dodge Charger for you.
Let me check the driveway. Yeah, no living room size backseat there. So yeah, I don't know.
You read my mind and it's always the Model 3 performance too. Like there was a meme going around for like weeks when the Ferrari 12 cylinder came out and it's like 800 horsepower. Model 3 has 500, zero to 63.1. Model 3, 3.1.
It's like, yeah, you can buy a Rolex and it costs you $30,000. But guess what? My iPhone, you know, like why would I ever buy a Rolex? They don't do anything better.
Imagine.
Yeah, I won't even read your messages to you or play music.
Yeah, imagine. Yeah, my Rolex does it. Yeah, it was in a camera. Oh my gosh.
I will say it's easier to swallow those kinds of things when it goes to the extreme like Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. Yeah, why buy a Ferrari?
You know, your Corvette will do the same thing for less kind of money. And yeah, they're not quite the same thing, but they're closer. But when you're like going like, you know, compact sedan versus my box, you're just like, that is not the same thing.
But people do it all the time, even like, oh, you know, I was looking to buy the RAV4, you know, and it was really nice. But then I got so much better value. You know, I just went to, you know, Kia and I bought this like cell toast.
It's like, why would you ever buy a TRD Pro Tacoma when you could buy a 30 year old full size Dodge pickup?
That's another one. The used comparison like is the same thing. Well, my whatever does the same, you know, well, my 30 year old whatever makes more pal. I could just go get a USGTR.
Of course, you'll get a USGTR.
Use comparisons are always the hardest because then it's anything Pandora's box is now open. Yeah, really anything. It's like, why would you buy a brand new camera? You could literally buy anything like Rolls Royce. Hey, why not?
Sure. Same thing as a camera, obviously.
This is this is what my some kind. I do my my what I've had it with is this is what mine is people online. So this is basically what the Carbaz comment section is people begging for manual cars and for sports cars and then not buying them.
So the specific example is anytime we write about the new prelude and granted, I'm not defending the prelude that hard because there are problems with it for $42,000.
You know, but I saw somebody on tech talk post a video saying this is a self fulfilling prophecy. Honda brings it out for $42,000 and says, well, I guess you guys didn't want it.
So we're going to kill it. And I'm like, where were you guys when Honda was selling the Civic Si coupe? Where were you then when that car was available for $25,000?
If Honda brought back the S 2000 today, that would be a $60,000 car adjusted from inflation. You can't afford the prelude, which is for your complaining that's too expensive.
Even worse, they want the S 2000 to exist so they can buy it in 10 years, maybe because like you said, they can't afford it. And and and I don't blame people for sharing their opinions, right?
That's fine. But they're coming at it as if they're a potential buyer. Why doesn't this say the prelude have 300 horsepower? That's what really interests me.
But they drive an Econo car because they can't afford anything else. And I'm not judging them for what they have. But they're coming at it like, why, why, why?
And it's like, because somebody isn't going to buy it for you to buy it 10 years later, that's just not how the economy works. Unfortunately, wouldn't it be cool?
I said it before. I've said it before. I'll say it again. Newsflash, everybody, car companies don't design cars for the used car market. They buy design cars rather for the people to buy them new.
And remember what the new car buyer looks like. The new car buyers average over 50 years old. They're they're single family home owning suburban dwelling people with high incomes, which is why we have huge screens plastered over everything.
They don't want manual transmissions by and large. They want automatics. They want all wheel drive. They want all the bells and whistles. They don't want base models. They don't want convertibles.
They don't want anything fun. You know, they, and I can see that because the closer to 55 I get, I can see that the fun has been sucked out of me.
And, and I don't know if I would buy a convertible anymore. And I don't know if I would buy another manual transmission. And that fills me with sadness.
But I'm also dead inside. So I think we might get to it. And I'll touch on that when we get there. But it's just one of those things where I've heard it in different contexts that I didn't like.
But I think it applies here. You vote with your dollars. And if a company builds a car, and, and, and I will touch on it later, but let's say let's say it's in fill in the blank, right?
It's a new RAV4. And you go, well, this is really close to what I'm looking for. But they don't have quite what I want. So I'm going to buy something completely different.
Well, because you're not buying that RAV4 in this instance, RAV4 does not care what you think, right? Toyota is like, whatever, they didn't even buy it.
So I'm not saying, oh, if it's not what you want, you should buy it anyway. But there is an argument when we talk about some of these niche things.
Let's talk small trucks for just a second. We say we want small trucks. And you know what you need to do? Buy the first small truck that comes out.
Because even if it's not exactly what you want, it tells the manufacturer that they should continue investing in research and development, because somebody will buy that in the future.
Not a perfect system. Far from it. If you go, huh, that's stupid. I'm not going anywhere near that. Then they go, oh, we won't do this.
And everybody else in the market goes, oh, why would we? Why would Dodge or Chevy build a small truck? Because Ford did it and no one cares.
Luckily, the Maverick's doing really well. But you get my point.
But the Maverick's a good example in a way because Maverick comes out and Ford was willing to stick their toes in the water.
Hyundai as well. I have to give the credit with Santa Cruz, although he hasn't landed as well for pricing reasons.
But Ford dipped their toe in the water with Maverick. They did the hybrid, which they had to for carb reasons, but they still did it anyway.
And then everybody else, including Ford, was like, oh my God, people want this thing.
Yeah. No, I agree. And to all these people, I agree. Vote with your wallet. And I say to them, you know, if you wanted all these things, you wanted this S2000, why is there not a Mazda Miata in your driveway right now?
Because it's not a sports car. No, it doesn't have Honda badge. And I'm like, I'm sorry, you can't always get what you want.
And that's why there are third party voters in America.
eBay has lots of badge options available. Here's what I'm sick of.
Yep.
Things not happening that we're told are going to happen. That Ram Rev. I'm gonna, people are gonna be sick of me talking about it.
I'm excited for the technology because we have this really one.
Okay. You're the guy, huh?
But bear with me. It was the first of its kind in the announced in the segment in the, and I went, this is really interesting.
And I think it's a home run because it assuades all the concerns people have about range anxiety, and you still get all the benefits of EV.
And in my mind, 95% of their driving is going to be EV anyway. And that's probably a win overall.
But then scouts said, Hey, we're going to do this. Ford says, Hey, we're going to do this. And I don't have any faith in anyone doing anything ever again.
And it's not, it's not just this. It's cars that were supposed to make their way here. And all of a sudden they aren't.
It's this feature will exist. And it doesn't. Looking at you, Tesla autopilot.
Yeah.
Right. These are, and you're buying cars. And here, okay, this is a, it's a full disclosure moment.
I worked at Tesla when autopilot first came out. And I said, what the company told me, and it was this car will be able to drive itself in the future.
And I apologize on camera right now to anyone, but bear with me gentlemen.
I said, this is what they say it will do. And if you believe that you can buy it now. And if you don't, you'll be able to buy it later.
It's just likely the cost more money that has come through. So I didn't say you should do this. It's the future. I said there's a chance that it can.
But these things quit just haven't come through. And we have so many cars that are now software empowered, right? Let's not say software based, but all these features that are going to come through.
And now it turns out if you bought a Volvo EX 90 and we're there for the LiDAR system, you just have a beluga hump and it's never going to do anything.
And that is not something that used to happen, right? It was the vehicle was developed and then went out, not went out and still under development.
So my word of caution, never buy a vehicle that says it's going to do something. Don't trust it. Period. If it doesn't already do it, then it may never do it.
Sure, it'd be cool if it got better. And my Tesla's added features over time and become more user friendly. But it's also changed interface and stuff that I like disappeared and I couldn't get it back.
I'm sick of that point. Yeah. And I understand it from a software design. You cannot box this off and start having a bunch of different variables like that just doesn't work in software.
I get it. But I'm sick of these things that are supposed to happen, supposed to come out. They're on their way. And we never, ever, ever see them.
This happens with video games too. They publish video games that are like buggy at first. They used to just be done. You would buy the video game and it was a full video game when you got it.
Like and now it's like it's half a video game and then the rest comes out later and then you have to buy DLC and the DLC is like half as much as the whole game.
You got the cartridge and it didn't do it. It said say to blow on it.
But now the cartridge isn't even a cartridge.
Yeah, the cartridge is on it. Yeah, it's an automatic download. You have to download the game. It's so stupid.
Oh, you whipper snappers. And here I was thinking.
So if you take your cartridge to your friend's house, it doesn't matter because it was done. Now you've got to download it.
Yeah. This is what's confusing.
There's no get home and put it in and play it.
You see Travis is internally his internal monologue is a 55 year old in the Midwest wanting wanting that wanting that ER EV.
Apparently the new car the new car Travis and then it turns out he's really 12 years old with a gaming console.
Can I personally I am personally fully out on E revs. It is my personal stance that they are so dumb.
I'm they took too long.
Like the past like three years has been like the time that we needed them.
It is past anybody that needed one. They're done like we don't even need that like who the people that they're for like don't even like need them now like because they're already like best served by their EVs or a diesel anyway.
And like whatever they're all going to be like too late to matter and they're just the worst EVs and not even good hybrids.
That's my fear and familiarity in the minority in the room.
So I think I think I think I agree with part of that.
I think that ER EVs the use case is very limited.
I think I think it's like a Ram Rev a full size SUV like those might make sense.
Like you want this longer range but you also need to be able to tow or do things like there's no good solution on the battery side for that.
Suppose a theoretical towing experience for your towing six seven hundred miles and you only want to stop for gas.
Like there's no good solution for that now.
So maybe that's the temporary hump but I don't see a reason to buy a Model 3 ER EV like that would be stupid.
Also the name just does not seem logical to me.
There's still fucking plug in hybrid. It's called the plug in hybrid.
It's what they are.
You have to make it different than that because it's just a better plug in hybrid but it's not.
Yeah.
Marketing.
The wheels better.
It's like a hybrid and a Prius is a hybrid right.
Right.
There are similarities but very different ends of an enormous like but the driving experience is better but the fuel economy is worse.
So better better in some ways but not in others.
So you're only selling it to me as OK it's going to accelerate and pull better than my gas or my diesel F 150 or whatever.
Other than that like what is it going to do better than my power boost that I've had since 2021.
Nothing.
Really nothing.
And if you don't ever charge it.
If you don't ever charge it your power boost hybrid from Ford is going to be more fuel efficient.
Right.
And there's no one buying this E rev reeve without charging like that.
I mean of course somebody will.
They will.
I know they will.
But they but you don't have a big big range like that.
If it's 20 miles if we go ah whatever who cares.
But ideally if you're buying this you know you're plugging it in every time you're.
I am surprised because we are now in a world where EVs are are as common.
The dribbled out of the narrow group of people the initial early adopters right now regular quote unquote regular people are buying them.
Yeah.
And so you know some of our customers on the other side of the wall there are the materials engineering side of the business here.
Some of our customers have purchased Teslas and Rivians and they live in condos and townhomes and situations where they they can't charge them at home because their their HOA won't let them put it in or some of them live in apartments.
And I'm just thinking wow you bought the thing that makes you public charge like how is this really working because this is not the normal demographic for these vehicles.
The typical demographic again for the for new car buyers of all descriptions is someone that could install a charger at home.
So but this is my concern with the EVs to Travis's point is I think these are the kind of people that might be well intended might buy something like that.
And then because they can't charge it at home and they can't always reliably charge it at the office they're going to be much more likely to go.
Well you know what I'll just fill it with gas.
In my personal opinion somebody who cannot afford a home that is living in a maybe maybe can't afford is not the only reason somebody lives in an apartment or a condo.
But maybe we should work on affordable housing and not sell somebody because the what is the cheapest of these e-rebs going to cost.
It's not going to be a thirty five thousand dollar F one fifty.
This is going to be a sixty or seventy thousand or eighty or ninety thousand dollar F one fifty.
This is not the affordable option.
So just get them in a Prius like to save gas like get them in a house where they can charge a Nissan like what are we doing here.
Like or even just like get them in a Colorado or a Maverick hybrid like what are we doing here.
Remember the whole thing is here is to save fuel on a big truck.
These are going to be so expensive because they need to have 100 kilowatt hour battery which is like only a little smaller than what the lightning currently has.
Plus it has to have a gas engine.
What is this thing going to cost.
It's not going to be a money saver.
No luxury option.
70 kilowatt hour battery would be enough but then it's like can't put out the power that it needs to.
I mean probably Ram was never going to be the reasonable one.
This is a luxury option at best.
But that's of course because who buys the new cars the wealthy people buy the new cars which brings us along to our topic next topic here which is that the average.
The average new car is fifty thousand dollars plus in the United States but we know that the wealthy are buying an outside share of them.
So when we look at the average loan this maybe tells us closer to what the average Joe in air quotes here is buying because we're still talking different demographics there.
Average new car loan amount is forty two thousand dollars right now.
The typical used car loan at the moment is twenty seven thousand dollars.
So this brings us to the question what new car would you buy Travis with a forty two thousand dollar price cap.
Well since the website lists the starting MSRP at forty two thousand dollars even.
Does it count.
Does it count.
No it's what it says forty two thousand dollars MSRP.
Plus destination destination.
I know it's not how it works.
We're going to go we're going to go we're going to go.
Failed.
I went a little under to try and match it but okay.
Then I'll take Jared's extra and we're fine.
Remember everybody destination.
I'm trying to buy the thing to save the thing for the rest of humanity Alex.
Remember everybody out there destination is not negotiable your dealer will tack it on sales tax is also going to be there although you fortunately don't have any there.
But but you will have a dealer markup and on a prelude it's going to be at least 10 grand.
So good luck.
My backup is a Maverick hybrid.
Okay there we go.
Yeah and Maverick hybrid with the tow package the four thousand pound tow package and all wheel drive because it does like literally everything and actually you should be getting pretty similar fuel economy to what we would expect in the high on the prelude which is sort of a fun interesting way to look at it.
But not going to be as exciting to drive and not as interesting but it does so many things so well and this is where you know where I look at what can it do what does it need to do and I want to push something to its limits not.
Hey this this is way more capable of doing X than I need it to be so you know I would I would put a cool little camper shell on it.
I would you know if I wouldn't need a lift.
I don't think anyone does.
But it's a it's a that's a great little truck.
I so enjoyed my time with the Maverick hybrid and it would do everything I needed to except for plug in so give me a Maverick P have.
Now we're talking a very different ball game but for me new car besides a prelude and I'm.
Yeah I'm so close to a civic.
It's no but I want the fun sporty coupe to exist.
That's the difference.
And so with that in mind is your twenty seven thousand dollars used car a fun sporty coupe.
No it isn't for twenty seven thousand dollars.
I'm going to go get a Volvo C 40.
Yeah those are fantastic little value.
They are fun and sporty and they are a coupe SUV.
They're not perfect and they're way less expensive than an XC 40 which is probably you know five percent more practical.
Obviously the shape of it but everything else inside is the same.
It's just that that rear end is obviously a little bit taller instead of that instead of that swoopier look.
I also look you can get a Polestar two and I would actually be tempted to lean toward Polestar two.
I like the smaller cars.
You're losing a ton of practicality there but very similar drivetrain and everything else inside.
So between Polestar two and the C 40.
Interesting.
So Jared what's your what's your new car pick for forty two.
Yes a new car.
So I stuck at forty because I knew taxes would pull it above.
So these are all so I have two cars that are both available at forty.
I looked at yours.
I won't spoil it but I did peep at yours but I stuck with sedans because I don't have any kids yet.
So I could still make a sedan work in my life.
So the one that I picked as my number one choice for now would be an Acura Integra A spec
because I could still get a manual transmission one because I'd like to keep the manual transmission alive as long as possible.
Again vote with your wallets if you buy a manual transmission brand new maybe automakers will keep making them as long as possible.
So I could keep one of those brand new and I could still get the tech package with the ELS studio audio and all of that with the adaptive suspension for under forty which is great.
The other car that I highly recommend the viewers check out if you're looking for a really nice sedan under forty the Hyundai Sonata N line for like thirty six grand.
What a great car that is.
It's like thirty six grand two hundred ninety horsepower.
It is so fast like if it had better tires because they got rid of the summer tire option this thing would be smoking GTIs like it's so fast with the dual clutch transmission.
It doesn't have ventilated seats but it has really cool like suede seats.
And honestly if you're being an adult when you walk into the Hyundai dealership you should probably walk out with the Sonata limited hybrid instead of the N line.
It's just under forty grand so it's like thirty nine thousand but you're going to get like fifty MPG.
It's like two hundred horsepower and it's a lovely car for under forty thousand dollars.
So those are three sedans under forty thousand dollars that are all fantastic.
Yeah that's not bad.
I have a feeling that since I'm dead inside we already covered that and you know one child hopefully number two on the way sometime in the future.
I would probably go with some sort of plug in hybrid SUV thing but it needs to have enough room for the car seat rear facing behind me.
So that really limits things down to basically like Kia Sportage Hyundai Tucson plug in hybrid maybe would squeak in under the water maybe a Sorento hybrid.
Yeah might work could get the plug in hybrid for that price range there.
So that's that's probably where I'd end up.
So what about your twenty seven thousand dollar used car.
Jared I've got I've got a bunch and I actually like looked and found like actual example.
Oh you found specific ones.
Yeah I went on cars.com is just my preferred.
I have no loyalty to them but I've just used them for years.
So I found some actual examples.
So I again went a little under so the taxes would pull me up to twenty seven.
So all these cars are available in the Orlando area for under twenty five thousand dollars and they all have pretty low miles I think like I would go buy these cars tomorrow if I was given a twenty five thousand dollar budget.
So twenty twenty two Hyundai Kona and that would be awesome.
I loved that car.
It was just so fun.
Just such a great little if you just need a small crossover that's also hilarious basically a hot hatchback twenty three thousand miles.
If you want an EV I found a twenty twenty three certified pre-owned Audi for e-tron.
So basically a luxury ID for twenty thousand miles for twenty five grand EV depreciation.
Fantastic.
You can get it out if you want to save the manuals except not really because you're buying it used twenty twenty three.
Goli manual CPO thirty five grand.
So it's a good price warranty for twenty five grand two hundred twenty eight horsepower with a manual pretty fun twenty five grand.
If you want something a little bigger bigger trunk twenty twenty one Kia Stinger GT one.
I love that a little higher on the miles fifty five thousand but for twenty five grand like that's a three hundred and fifty horsepower car V six real drive.
And last one do not buy this but I just thought it was hilarious.
So I had to include it.
Don't buy this twenty twenty one Maserati Ghibli S twenty twenty one only four years old.
Jared why would you tell people to go buy this twenty twenty one.
That's crazy.
Do not buy this.
But if you're really the Chrysler with the Maserati engine if you absolutely just want to feel like a baller for like the ten minutes that it's going for this big flex.
You know like just if you just.
That was a big flex.
What was that.
That's what Ghibli is.
Is that where my glasses that.
Yeah I know.
If you want the most car for under twenty five grand like that.
That's it.
Maserati Ghibli fifty one thousand miles.
You know the best sound for under twenty five grand.
That might be it.
I'd have to go.
I'd have to go slightly crazier and just sort of you know bizarre.
I would probably love a six door Cadillac Fleetwood limo because that would be the hilarious SUV alternative.
If you have a three row SUV you don't you don't get three rows of doors but you could if you bought an old Fleetwood limo.
And that's mainly because Volvo's nine sixty six door limo was was absolutely fantastic.
But they're really rare in the United States.
And as far as I know that's the only limo that's ever been crash tested.
Volvo actually crash tested their limos which was hilarious.
But speaking of the flex this brings us right along to the Dodge Charger and its muscle card them because Jared you have actually managed to drive the six pack.
Sadly Travis was supposed to drive the Hurricane Turbo one but flight delays thanks to our shutdown.
It just didn't happen.
And I recently had the EV in stock which I think is a fantastic landing in a fantastic plane pulled right up to the gate and no one wanted to board it.
I don't know about fantastic.
I think it has issues in the same way that the Wagoneer S the car that shares a platform with it has a few issues.
Well let me let me rephrase this.
Let me rephrase this.
I think it's a fantastic landing because it's the most Dodge thing they could have done with an electric drivetrain.
It's a very Dodge EV.
It's dumb.
It's like it's stupid big.
It's pretty darn crazy quick.
The handling ability is shockingly good like as good as the last one on the skid pad and in the figure eight.
It is as good or better in some of these metrics as an ionic 5N so better than you know model S plaid etc.
Massive amounts of grip because it has fantastically expensive wide sticky tires on it.
The charging is OK the DC charging speeds like model S territory so like if model S gets away with it then Dodge should be able to get away with it too.
It does donuts it drifts it does all that jazz right.
And it looks you know ridiculous and huge all at the same time so like it is it is as Dodge as the original Hellcat was in my opinion.
Yeah the the six pack is interesting.
It's interesting because they probably should have launched with the six pack if if like because that would have maybe been a little closer to what the the Dodge customer is used to.
It would have been a little bit less of a leap of faith for them.
I'm finding that even with the six pack the Dodge customer is having a little bit of time adapting but I do have some numbers which is which is kind of fun though I did do a zero to sixty run.
I clocked a three point eight six second zero to sixty time in the six pack which is really quick.
It was not quite as quick as the EV though when we were on the launch event for that car I clocked a three point four in the scat pack version of the car.
But in all accounts the six pack is quicker than the old six point four liter boat car by like quite a bit that car was much slower that car.
So yeah it's faster than the old V eight because it has all wheel drive now so it just launches like no problem now and the interior is just miles better.
Like it's just such a marked improvement over the Challenger and the charger in that respect and it looks cool and it sounds interesting.
Like it's not the same sound but like it sounds good.
So like I don't know maybe people can just stop crying about it for five seconds and enjoy what they got.
I think it's a good sound and get the frat sonic version of it.
We haven't even talked about the dumb frat sonic thing.
Yeah it's like because the electric one revs and annoys your neighbors and rumbles at night just like the regular one.
But no I agree with you that the question here in a way is like as good of a landing as the EV was it's lined up at the gate where there aren't a lot of people hanging out at the next gate where the six pack is parked either because like the six pack was already a bit of a bridge too far for a brand that built their reputation on raw V eight.
And you know sock puppets and brass knuckles and and all the crazy things that that dodge does in advertising etc.
And now they're like oh we're going to give you a world class BMW imitating inline six engine for the crowd that spent a lot of time going like oh that stupid BMW we've got a real v8 manly under our hood.
And it is a fantastic inline six mind you have 550 horsepower of a three liter inline six is some pretty pretty stellar engineering there but doesn't sound like a dodge does it.
No and if you read the comments it's never going to be as reliable as the old hemi and oh my god it's going to you know it's going to blow up because it has turbo chargers because you know we don't know how turbo chargers work there's so new fangled technology you know I just I don't know.
That's in a diesel.
Then they're great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then they're fantastic.
I do wonder if pricing is maybe something to look at because pricing has gone up considerably the cheapest six pack that you can get now is and they just released pricing for 2026 so this is a little bit out of date now.
But as of 2025 it was forty nine nine nine five and I know it's not at all equivalent but you could get a charger Pentastar for thirty two six forty five and even the cheapest RT model with a five seven V eight was forty two three eighty five so you know to go up to forty nine nine nine five it's like about a seven
thousand dollar jump now now you're getting a better interior you're getting a lot more power you're getting a all wheel drive.
I think I think the the corollary I think the corollary to the five seven is the right way to compare.
And I think once you do that comparison and you factor in two grand for all wheel drive I think the rest of it honestly is explained by inflation because it was three model years ago basically that we had the last charger in the U.S.
because they took actually quite some time off which is another story.
So this is comparing to 2025 or six.
This is 2026 pricing.
So yeah so that it is yeah two model years.
Yeah.
Yeah they took an insane amount which is a whole part of this package right the best selling full size stand in America and you take a whopping three model years off before you replace it with something that that same customer could actually buy because sure there was the Dodge charger last year but it was the electric one and none of those people wanted it.
So now we're finally giving them what they want.
Don't you think in three years that wanted off and found something they like better.
I was going to come back.
I personally think the best things about this car have nothing to do with like kind of the dodgeness of them and how it relates to the old charger or the challenger.
I think it kind of just has to do with what this car is and how nothing else like it exists.
Whether you're kind of talking about the four door model or the two door model because let's take the two door model because there there's really nothing else like this because you want the Camaro's gone.
There's no more.
You've got the Mustang or bust the Mustang has one of the worst back seats ever.
You cannot fit a human adult back there and you could fit an entire Mustang in the Chargers trunk.
Yeah.
Like I'm like honestly like Alex and Travis are tall.
You can fit both of them comfortably for two hours back there.
It is huge and I know the trunk of the of the charger is a little shallow but in terms of length it's massive and if you fold down that rear seat you can do a Home Depot or Costco run in it.
It's massive.
So one of the big problems that we're finding here with these people that won't buy the prelude that like won't buy these cars is that like they were all kind of forced out of two door cars because the back seats are pretty terrible in them and the trunks are pretty terrible in them.
So like they were all like well I'm just going to go buy a truck.
So everyone who left went not to another large sedan or large coupe because they didn't really exist especially in that segment right the American muscle type.
They went to an SUV and as we've seen in the world of automotive you cannot get people back out of a crossover or an SUV because it has most of what they liked in their sedan and now it sits higher and it's easier to get in and out of.
And I'm someone who every time I get into my model three I'm doing a small fold to do it.
I'm a tall person.
It's worth it and I like the driving experience but you spend six months not folding into a car at all.
You go oh I like this and so they're going to stick with it and I think that's been the biggest problem is they had other places to go in the SUV market.
You know I would be shocked obviously with Instalantis but if everyone who had their charger and it was time to trade him in or their challenger or whatever they went with the Durango.
They went with a Grand Cherokee.
They went with something that had a big engine and most of the excitement and then they went oh like I don't love everything.
I don't need everything I thought I needed in a car.
This SUV this is pretty nice.
I always say that Audi introduced the A5 Sportback and BMW introduced like the four series Gran Coupe too late in America.
If we would have had those a decade earlier I'm not saying we would have stopped the crossover but we would have slowed it down a little bit.
If all sedan would have had that hatch practicality a little earlier we would have maybe circumvented it a little bit.
I think only a tiny bit because the problem is the cars with the cafe regulations the way they were written thanks to George W. Bush's era.
The unintended consequences were ever dropping roof lines and sedans which really hampered their practicality.
You could add a hatch and if you still can't fit adults in the back it's not really that much better.
That is part of my problem with the charger.
The charger's back seat it has a lot of legroom but headroom is just too limited for me and they didn't change the door opening that much in the rear because it's exactly the same roof line four door to two door.
So in the four door you get this kind of compromised door opening that makes it hard to get child seats in and out hard for tall people to get in and out.
And I would say just for our taller listeners here I am not going to refer to myself as a tall person nor Travis here either.
Tall people are like six foot four or six foot five.
See I heard that six two is the shortest tall person.
I would go with that six two is a short tall person.
That sounds about right to me.
But you know what you could do you could drive your Dodge Charger theoretically on the new Arizona bond.
Have you have you heard of this proposed legislation.
The Arizona act called the rapid act is wants to start a pilot program on I8 to remove the speed limit during the day.
I thought it was at night that they wanted to remove the.
No during the day.
During the day they at the limit at night.
Yeah for safety.
So it's like Texas where they have lower speed limits at night.
And some of the other states that have that have tweaked speed limits here and there have instituted night speed limits for safety.
What is your thought on the on the Arizona bond.
I mean listen I I've always having driven on the Autobahn twice now.
I don't think Americans could handle it because I think in the in the years apart that I drove in Germany.
I think that the Germans for whatever reason have gotten worse as drivers.
I don't know what happened.
But I just don't think Americans have the education the driver education needed to handle something like this.
So it would scare me to ever be sharing the same road with somebody who just doesn't have a speed limit because people just don't know what lanes are for.
I'd be really excited if Arizona were to say like we're going to start educating people to drive better in conjunction with something like this.
But I'm already seeing people like call the the I forget which which one of their legislators wants to do this they're calling them crazy they're like maniac you want to let people speed so like I just don't think the voters would ever let something like.
Here's a here's a thought to our captain slow down below Travis here.
So one of the studies that was cited here supposedly in in support of this was that in these speed unrestricted zones that have existed time off and off here.
In recent memory in the US, apparently the average speed in a lot of these areas does not seem to change it seems like the average driver in these wide open really long stretches.
They want to go about 77 to 78 miles an hour, regardless of the speed limit.
Would you do that?
What if the speed limit was 80?
What would you be doing there Travis?
If the speed limit was 80 I'd be doing 80.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so I usually camp in the slow lane, but I'm doing the speed limit.
And if I end up with a car in front of me that's doing a couple of miles per hour slower.
So you're not slow you're just law biting.
That's correct.
Yeah.
I go the speed limit and I know what lane to go into.
Here's the thing.
I've heard lots of great ideas coming out of Arizona.
Lots always.
And this just doesn't seem like really.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
Here's the other best idea.
Let's focus on the subject.
Simple.
We have, you know, so much time in the world.
The Autobahn is a very European concept.
Right.
Let's just let's just stick with that.
Yeah.
It's really a German concept.
Let's go with that.
I'm going to go a little bit about our European.
If we say other European concepts like, like, uh, approached alcohol or like approach to nudity.
And we just said, by the way, we're just going to bring some of those changes here to the
US right now.
Uh, just like this idea, bad one.
Uh, we're just not built to, to live that way.
That's true.
I've seen people on nude beaches and they're not built for that either.
Let's just say that.
Well, and we're not built to have any of that here.
I mean, obviously they exist, but you know what I mean?
It's these, it's these, these European concepts.
You grow up with it.
And so the Autobahn is, is you're always going to have a kid who goes, all right, I'm going
to do the top speed on my car and I'm going to do it.
But these, so I think you sort of grow out of it and, and this idea in Germany, I think
has, they probably grown out of it.
And so just to introduce it here, willy-nilly bam, here we go.
If you want to do a pilot program, increase the speed limit.
Don't just get rid of it.
It's a pilot program.
You can change it.
So, so, so put in a sign.
You can swap the eight for a nine or leave room.
I think they're, I think the, the technicality here would be, there is a speed limit.
It is reasonable and prudent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who knows what that means.
So moving along, we have a Kia K4 hatch.
Is it epic?
Is it strange?
And what about the rest of their lineup?
Cause they also said there's a new cell toast coming and there might be a Nero still.
It's definitely a Nero still on sale for 2026.
I think it's reasonable and prudent.
What do you think?
Reasonable and prudent.
Is it, do you think they're cutting the, the pie a little too thinly there?
Well, cause we don't know if they, didn't they tease or preview the news?
They always do like the reveal in Korea and not in America yet for the cell toast.
So we don't know.
They did.
They said it's coming.
We're definitely getting the cell toast.
We are definitely getting a cell toast hybrid, but they wouldn't say,
they wouldn't say what else we're going to get.
A lot of specifics not on the table.
That's because it's not going to come for another year.
So K4 hatch is interesting cause I personally think the K4 is a great car.
I like it in some ways more than its sister car, the Elantra,
but I think the Elantra hybrid is the one yet and there's no K4 hybrid.
So I think overall I would just get the Elantra for that reason and that reason
alone, but I like a hatchback.
So I would consider the K4, but the whole reason I would want the K4 hatchback is
cause I want a hot hatchback and so far KIA has not given us any indication that
they're going to do a K4 GT.
That's what I want because I love the Elantra N, but what I really want more
than anything is the powertrain out of the Elantra N,
but a more grown up version of it from KIA with a GT badge on it that says K4 GT
with a hatchback because KIA or Hyundai will not sell us a true hot hatchback anymore.
The Elantra is only a sedan.
So if KIA does that, give it a dual clutch only, it's fine.
I don't need a manual, whatever, cry about it on the internet.
But yeah, that's what would really excite me.
But I do think that the body proportions, especially that weird C pillar on the
sedan of the K4 is weird, but the hatchback is check.
Fixes it, yeah.
I am actually really, you bring up an interesting point that has made me scratch
my head for a while because at some point or another, I was in a presentation in
Korea where they were talking about the brand positioning and why Hyundai and
KIA are different and how they're different and yada, yada, yada.
And it's always like, KIA is supposed to be the sporty one.
And I'm like, but then why are you the one without the N and why are the N's over here?
And there doesn't seem to be logic on that front other than maybe Hyundai is the parent
company, so they're like, well, we should have the special parts.
But yeah, there should be a GT thingy and there also should be a hybrid one.
Right.
And if you're going to go like, if you're going to go where the sporty one, then there
should definitely be a GT.
And if somehow we're walking away from the sporty, then there's no excuse to not
have the hybrid one.
So I don't know.
It seems odd.
I also wonder about the self-fulfilling prophecy because, you know, how is the hatch
going to line up with the sedan?
Well, the sedan is going to have the low cost option and the hatch is not.
So they're not, they're not one for one.
It's the higher end trims available in the hatch.
I don't, I don't, ultimately, I'm not like, oh my gosh, this is, this is a ploy.
They're just going to show that, no, no, no, they wouldn't bring it here to prove
a point that way.
But why not make it in the more affordable trims?
If they do that later, that's fine, right?
An initial release and see how it goes and build off of that.
No problem.
As much as I would love a hot hatch when it comes to the K four and their, their
non-turbo and turbo high options.
I actually defer away from the turbo because I don't think it makes the car that
much more interesting to drive.
It's a little quicker, but not quicker enough to be worth it.
So like the GT line of the K four hatch.
I think it's a great little option because I like the regular automatic feeling
than it is fun driving, but you pay quite a bit less.
So yeah, I've only, I've only driven the K four with the CVT.
I've not driven the turbo actually.
I've only driven the base car.
They sent me the most loaded base car.
No, it was fine.
It was very slow.
It's okay with the CVT, but it is better to drive with the auto.
I will say that the, I can answer the logic part.
The logic for upper end trims of the hatch is that according to other manufacturers
that have hatch and sedan combos, key hasn't talked on this specifically,
but other manufacturers have, and they say that the hatch shoppers tend to
gravitate towards top end trims.
So if you're unsure about whether it will sell or not, you go that direction
because it's more likely to go.
I think it actually has a pretty good chance in the U S though, because
civic hatch sells actually quite well as far as a percentage of sales.
Corolla hatch, even though I think that the Corolla hatch is like the worst
of the hatches because it's so compromised.
It's so small inside that actually sells a reasonable percentage.
And apparently Impreza hatch sold so well that they just ditched the sedan
in the last, you know, cycle.
So there is no Impreza sedan anymore because they were like, yes, do the hatch.
And it's going to be one of the most practical hatches of that bunch.
You know, I threw up air quotes here, the civic hatch is like barely a hatch.
It's a sport back, a lift back.
And I, I owned a civic hatchback in the late, for the late eighties.
And that was a hatchback that was, that was squared out.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And it had space and, you know, they got a little sexier and more interesting,
but they lost practicality.
That's the idea of a hatch.
And this K four, they were, they were very specific when, when we went
to the first and saw it and they're like, we really do not want to call this a
wagon.
And that's because it has wagon wagons and wagon like function.
I mean, you just, it's still shorter than the actual K four,
but you get more space out of it because it's, it's a pretty square roof back there.
I love it.
And again, for practical purposes, it's a great fit,
which is why I would also like to see it in that lower end trim,
because that means that the, the person not shelling out as much money as
they need to, or could afford can still get more car for the money.
And remember the new Dodge Charger is also a hatch.
That's true.
So we can add that to the list.
What I would like to see the comparative list K four,
Dodge Charger,
same thing.
Exactly.
It's basically a key of K four.
Exactly.
It'll be in the comments on this video.
What I would love to see is this new car category that Europe has the M one E
category, which is interesting.
Cause if you haven't heard Europe has recently decided to back away from the
2030 emissions target by, you know, for all electric vehicles by 2030.
This I think is no surprise to anybody because when they came out,
California is probably going to move their goalpost soon if it's not overturned
in courts.
And I would say even if they don't,
it's most likely just going to be a reaction to other things going on.
So there's this possibility that could be heel digging in because of that,
but these goalposts have moved in the past for California's Zev mandate is
not the first one they've had.
But what's intriguing is that at the same time they did that,
they did this other thing, which is this new M one E category.
And this is a tweak to their credit scheme where you can sell one EV and have
it count for 1.3 EVs.
So yay on that.
Gives them a little wiggle room to sell things less efficient here and there,
but I am intrigued by this because it's not a K car category.
K cars have to be under 133.8 inches.
So they're really quite small.
This is a small car category.
So they can be up to 165.3 inches long and still qualify for this.
They have to be fully electric and built in the EU,
one of the actual EU countries.
So in American terms,
a Kia Soul would work if it was built in the EU.
A Venue would work because it's 159 inches.
The Volvo EX30 is ever so slightly too big,
even though it's built in Belgium.
That feels hurtful.
Is it really too big?
That's so funny.
They could probably hack.
Yeah, they could probably squeeze some things off of it.
So does that mean a Golf is too big?
Golf is too big.
Because an EX30 is bigger than a Golf.
So a Polo would fit.
A Polo would work.
There's a whole range of things in Europe that could come.
But I am somehow intrigued.
This is a category that actually,
I think a government mandate thing would be handy in the credit
trading scheme that obviously we don't have anymore
because we're living in a dystopian world here.
So in a world where maybe you sell one of these things,
yeah, you get one and a half little set of credits for it.
So that could be entertaining.
But I think it solves in air quotes here.
Some of the problem with the claim of compliance car,
because it's not just, you know,
something with no range at all.
Theoretically,
they still have to get people to want this and get it because the
credit scheme is only a minor credit bump.
It's not a huge credit bump.
So I'm curious to see what kinds of cars will get developed under
this scheme because it could incentivize cars reducing their
size in Europe,
which is apparently the entire goal is that,
that a lot of European legislators are concerned that cars have
become too big and European safety, safety nannies,
they're, they're also worried that cars have become too big and
too heavy.
Right.
So this is trying to incentivize cars to shrink back again,
because I will say if you've driven around tiny towns in,
in Europe,
some of the cars that are out there now are definitely a little on
the big side.
Could you imagine to make the influence, right?
Yeah.
But Mike,
at 1.3 is it enough because we're talking about,
you have to,
you have to invest in making the car because they're going to be a
very small number right now that would even qualify to begin with.
So if you want to make the impact,
you have to make the incentive worthwhile and,
you know,
look at something like a fiat 500,
you say, okay, that,
that should work.
I don't know exactly where they're all built,
but you know that,
that one should work as far as the sizing,
but you mentioned the soul and the sell those and we go,
but those aren't electric.
Obviously here in the U S what,
what else would fit with an electric mini Cooper work?
And you go, okay, well, is that,
well, that's built in China now.
No, yeah,
wouldn't work because that's built in China.
The fiat 500 is built in Turin.
So that would qualify.
And I think it's the logic here could make sense because it would be a
longer term thing.
We're not going to see any difference in a few years here,
but if they get 1.3 credits for every one they build and that helps
them out financially and logic wise in their compliance scheme,
it could theoretically make that model less expensive.
So if, if we look at this and over the next few years,
because of this scheme,
we see those small EVs either become less expensive,
which is probably unlikely,
more likely that their price tags don't increase like the rest of
vehicles.
So there starts to widen this gap and they can be this more
affordable alternative.
Then I could see car companies go and the sales,
you know, actually tick up.
Then I could see car companies investing more heavily in this segment.
And the consumer has to get something too.
Cause like they're sacrificing on having a bigger car and it's like,
they have to decide whether or not it's worth it.
Like, okay, yeah, the car is a little cheaper,
but like, is that enough on its own or like, you know,
I think maybe they'd get like preferred parking spots.
Like maybe they get like a tax credit when they buy it as well.
So it's like, you know, the carrot, you know, versus the stick, like,
I'm all for like the carrot.
Like, listen, we here in America,
we incentivize people to buy the largest heaviest thing for their
business as a depreciating asset, you know,
gross vehicle weight of 7,500 pounds or more.
Imagine if we incentivize them to build, you know,
to buy the smallest, most efficient thing, you know,
how many leafs Nissan would sell?
Like it would be crazy. Like we just do the opposite.
I'm also intrigued to see if it causes car designs to change because
like EX 30 is on the cusp of qualifying.
Yeah, I could see a world where Volvo's like, you know,
we could shave a few inches off this thing.
So it makes me wonder if that, if we're going to see that happen at all.
And maybe if there were other similar incentives for car size categories
here and there where maybe there could be this, this trend back towards,
towards more efficient designs and more efficient packaging.
This brings us along to changing market forces and the US car scene.
What changing market forces?
I don't know.
What could you even be talking about Alex?
I was looking at at Kia's lineup is an interesting one in Canada.
Do you know that next year, Canada is going to get EV3, EV4,
which is going to be cheaper than a bolt and EV5 and EV9 GT.
Whereas here in the US of A, we are just going to be getting two of them.
EV9 and six.
Do you remember what I said earlier about, I hate things being that aren't
happening that aren't going to happen.
You know, I went and looked at and shot and was pretty pleased with
and curious about the EV4.
And now you're telling me it's, it's up there.
It's right.
It's right there.
Great.
You are so close.
Travis.
So close.
So we are getting that one, but we're not.
We are not getting before.
That's the sedan.
That's the sedan that's cheaper than the bolt.
What is the three?
The three is even smaller than that.
That's the 400 volt EGMP platform.
Yeah, we're not getting that.
So we're not getting that one, but Canada is,
that's the more affordable sort of think electric soul kind of.
They're going to also get the EV5,
which is the SUV counterpart to EV4.
I've seen that one.
That one also would sell great here.
Better than you'd say.
Probably, but none of them will sell as well as a Sportage,
which is why it's not coming.
Of course.
And then of course we are also not getting the electric
people, movers and cargo vans that they get in Europe.
Right.
No, which also look, I mean, listen, they look fantastic,
but I don't know if those,
we just saw Volkswagen canceled the ID buzz,
at least for one year.
For one year.
You think that's only for one year.
You think it's only for one year.
For all the cost of him.
I don't know anything anymore, Jared.
Yeah.
For the cost of them all getting the buzz,
I would be surprised if they didn't try and bring it back
again for a spell, but it's not selling well.
So it's got to, they got to stop making them.
Travis, I wrote a story a year or two ago about the same thing,
which is like stop revealing cars until you've built cars,
which was when GM was revealing all these cars and they were
like, here's the this stick and here's the,
I'm like, build one of these before you show us the next one.
Like stop.
Like it's the same with like, here's the R3.
Where's the R2?
Yeah.
Don't show us the R4 before the R2.
Hey, at least GM did the shotgun approach and they actually
did shotgun out all these, all these EVs.
I was like, oh my.
I will say General Motors has like proven me a little bit wrong.
I've been a little bit of crow.
I really like the Vistik.
I think I love the object.
I think the only, as much as I hate it,
I actually really like the Escaladec as well.
I think that also is a very, if you're like super rich,
Escaladec IQ.
It's Escaladec.
That's how it's spelled.
Escaladec.
I'll say it.
Escaladec.
Yeah.
But it's the same thing.
How many pole stars have we seen before this four is here?
I'm still waiting for my roadster.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You might want to get that money back to us.
I mean, at least three and four actually exist.
Those were, those were.
Four doesn't exist.
Four is maybe.
Four is on sale.
Four is making deliveries.
Four is on sale now.
Finally.
How delayed was that?
But it was delayed because of, you guessed it,
tariffs because they actually had to build a new factory to
move production because, you know, couldn't build it in China,
which was the original plans.
Now it's going to be built.
We lost pole star two.
South Korea.
Right.
They should have just continued making the two so they'd have
something to sell.
They would have if it wasn't for tariffs.
Why didn't they focus on replacing the two with something that
was similar to the two because now you're telling people,
okay, here's this thing that costs,
I forget how much the two was by the time it was dead,
50,000, 40,000, whatever it was.
And now it's like, okay, here's this $80,000 car.
You want to trade in your lease and it's like, no,
what do you, what do you mean?
That's the only thing that I can trade in my lease for.
No, I'm going to go buy a Tesla model three.
Like, what are you talking about?
Why didn't you, why didn't you give me anything to trade my lease
in for buy?
Like basically they, well, because the plan was that they were
going to have one.
It was pole star four.
That's too expensive.
It starts at 46 four.
It's still a little, whatever.
It's still more.
And I'd be interested at 46 four.
Yeah.
Here we go.
I have it here.
So the 2024 pole star two was the end of the road there,
essentially.
That's 49 nine.
And so pole star four is actually less expensive at 46 four
than pole start two.
What kind of naming scheme is just sort of dumb?
What kind of, what kind of pole star two was that?
Was that like a dual motor, like high performance one?
They're all dual motor at the end.
I think they might have all been dual motor at the end.
Okay.
But if I like the rear wheel drive,
yeah, if I leased one of those, I'm not going to be getting a 40.
Like, yeah, it's that silly.
Like I, I don't know.
I think the whole brand, me and Alex have talked about this with
pole star as a brand and their lack of foresight with naming
things.
Like, yeah, the, you know, the three is bigger than the four,
which is bigger than the five.
And like, you know, I came up with that for 2024.
That was the single motor model.
The single motor model was 51 three.
Cause four starting MSRP is for the long range single motor
rear wheel drive as well.
So it actually is more affordable, the new one.
And you get longer range, you get a bigger vehicle.
You just get, you know, 20% less window because there's no back
window because that parts down.
I think I would wrap.
I would wrap that weird thing black just so it looked like a window.
Plus pack on there is something that you can get with the
with the, the single motor, you know, lower, lower price one,
$5,500 option.
Totally worth it.
Like the packaging on that is here's everything you would want to
have a more premium experience.
You don't have to get the all wheel drive.
You don't have to get a bigger battery.
I know it's one battery on this one.
You don't need the performance pack.
So I actually really love the way they put that together.
No, we're not talking about cheap, but again, it's right in
realm of what an average new car costs.
And it's actually.
Yeah.
That is the very tricky part.
I don't think that's necessarily so bad, but the, on the unintended
consequences here are the changes in the market.
I would say I'm thinking more along the lines of not niche
things like this.
I'm thinking big picture.
So there's been a lot of talk about Ford killing off the
lightning to try and create this extended range thing that we've
been talking about earlier in the episode, but there's not a
lot else in there.
There seems to be this, this raw, raw traditionalist car
enthusiast who again doesn't buy new cars, right?
But this fever dream that somehow changes to cafe,
changes to emissions compliance, changes to EV mandates,
et cetera is going to mean that starting next year,
we're going to see seven liter V eights and everything's and,
and the rational answer here is that.
That the mix of vehicles in the U S is not only not going to
change much.
It's probably actually going to become more restrictive because
we're going to see car companies ditching electric models
because they're not necessarily sensible at the moment for
financial reasons, political reasons, et cetera, for the
average new car company, other than actually,
well, including Tesla, we take a look at it.
Realistically margins are lower on EVs because they're
intrinsically more expensive to build.
So if you can cut a few EVs here and there to still keep some
customers happy, but improve your margins, you're going to do it.
So we probably will see prunings of EV trims.
And even if it's not wholesale models, trims like EV nine GT
cut out of the trim line, right?
That's a totally logical move for car companies.
But we also are probably going to see some stagnation in lineups
because car companies are going to go, well,
why would I bother developing a hybrid for this when we don't
know what legislation is going to look like in three years?
Consumers haven't suddenly just said, you know what I really
like doing?
Spending more on gasoline because I always complain that it's too
cheap here in the United States.
That's the problem.
So it's like even, and then manufacturers that have killed engines,
it's not like they're sitting on a production line that can just
build that engine willy nilly.
And it still has to comply with other, other emissions
compliant schemes like California's car up here.
So it's not like Ford could just reach back into the way back
machine and bring back a different engine for something.
Why would they?
They've already got one V eight in the lineup.
It doesn't sell as well as the 3.5 liter engine in the F one 50
lineup.
So why would they cook up?
I don't know a seven liter something to pop in there.
You see General Motors seemingly still steaming forward
according to all reports with their next generation engine family.
If, if, if we were to believe that this is the, the,
the panacea and it's going to fix everything and save everybody
money, they would stick a fork in that development and just keep
building these old engines forever.
We probably will see resurrections of engines that are only recently
passed, but that's unlikely to have been induced by anything
lately.
So we're probably going to see resurrections of other Stalantis
V eights, right?
So they've got the five seven back.
The six, the six fours back in, in Durango and in Wrangler,
et cetera.
There's only one member that family left, right?
Oh, there were moments where they were like pausing here and
there.
Yes.
But so it's like, but they, they didn't stop tooling for those
things.
The five seven, they turned off the production line for a little
bit.
They were like, okay, well, we haven't dismantled and sold
anything.
Let's keep it going.
So we think Ford is going to do another Shelby GT 500.
So it's going to make that, it's going to make that silly GTD look
a little stupid.
I mean, I, it's going to be faster on a track than whatever the
GT 500 is, you know, because it's carbon fiber and it's
multi-matic and whatever, but it's probably still going to have
that predator engine.
But like, you know, if, if any other car company did it, if
Nissan did it where it's like, oh, it's got this infinity, you
know, VR 30 engine, it's all that's the engine they've been using
in the Q 60, whatever it's like, but like when Ford does it,
you're like perfectly happy about it.
Like, what are we doing here?
Like it's almost, I feel weird saying this.
I almost feel bad for the manufacturers right now because
there is no right direction because nothing is stable.
Nothing is consistent.
And so with, with, you know, we saw General Motors drop,
bright drop.
Well, that's because of, of the times because of the tax
situation.
It's because EVs are not as sexy as they were, but now you're
looking at, okay, thank goodness they had some money and some
time they continue to invest in their engines, but we've also
seen them not really investing in hybrids or plug-in hybrids.
And because things have been delayed here in this EV
transition, which is electrified is the future.
They, they're not very electrified.
They're electric or they're not, and that in between is going
to end up hurting them.
All the money that the Korean manufacturers have poured into
this country that all of a sudden is not worth less, but
getting a much, much smaller return than they had anticipated
in this, this K car thing where cafe isn't going to matter.
Nobody should be changing anything.
So now the manufacturers are going to be told, hey, the, the
policies say that you can build whatever the heck you want.
And it's like, yeah, but, but we can't just go build whatever
the heck we want.
That's stupid.
I don't have any sympathy for them because, you know, when you
vote for a leopard to eat your face, when the leopard eats
your face, ah, no, it wasn't supposed to eat my face.
Yeah.
It's like, when we look at on the, on, on the landscape here,
the, the American truck segment is an island to itself because
it does not exist much outside the United States.
There are some markets where this old, but by and large, it is
a, a North American, mainly US centric vehicle segment.
Um, so in that segment, we may see more changes.
We may see things happen here and there because it's a
really big segment, but if we're talking about everything
else, practically on the market, it's sold everywhere else in
the world.
They're not going to make dirtier engines for us.
They're not going to make somehow a brand new design that is
rah-rah V8.
Volvo is not going to run out and create a brand new V8 for
something just for the American market, right?
It's like, et cetera.
It's just not going to happen.
And in the, in the truck segment, also some of these
decisions are going to play out, I think, better and worse for
some car companies.
So GM's decision to invest heavily in a dedicated EV truck
platform puts them at a disadvantage, I would assume
financially.
Sure, it shares a lot with the other Altium family vehicles,
but it's a dedicated unibody platform for these big trucks that
you could not easily jam a gasoline engine into.
And I think that's where some people are getting a little bit
off into the weeds, like turning a lightning into an extended
range EV, the Ram rev thing, those things actually are
quote unquote easier because the body and the frame were designed
for an engine to begin with.
So there's a crash structure that was made for an engine to live
up front in both of those vehicles.
The only part of the frame that's unique in the F-150 is the part
between the front and the back where you got the battery
tray, et cetera, so they widen the rails out and started to make
them all fit.
But it's quote unquote relatively easy to integrate an engine back
into where an engine was supposed to go.
And then you have to worry about exhaust routing and where the,
where's the gas tank going to go, that kind of thing.
But the body on top was already designed for gas tank to live
somewhere, this to live somewhere, that to live somewhere.
In a Silverado EV or a Sierra EV, that's not the case.
Like where are you going to stick a gasoline engine?
Will the crash structure accommodate it?
Is there enough room up front?
Because there's not a lot of room up front when you really look
into that, the way that that, that frunk is done in there.
Where are you going to stick the gas tank, et cetera.
These are not as easy to solve in a vehicle that was never designed
for that in the first place.
I think when it's assumed that the truck box,
the truck bed box generator range extender isn't a thing.
I'd love to throw it in and take it out as needed.
You know, it's one plug into the battery system.
And then off it goes, but that's super simple.
Just heave six or 700 pounds and they're no problem.
Well, the Cybertruck was supposed to do it.
And then like you said, things that were supposed to happen are,
are not, but I, I was dumb to begin with.
I mean, my God, it was not use of removable.
I'm not saying it wasn't, um, but I,
I also look forward to be proven right again when we realize that
these E revs aren't the solution either because I listen,
I don't know if the, the,
the battery tech is the problem with the Silverado EV or the,
or the lightning.
I think the problem is, is that they're 80 or $90,000.
I think that's the problem.
And I don't think that this E rev is going to solve that because
what is this for?
What is the actual problem solution?
So like, what is the solution that this thing is giving me that
this isn't what, what, what is my pickup truck for?
What is this E rev doing?
Like, like you're telling me like EV saves planet.
Like what does this E rev do?
Oh, E rev, you know, doesn't use gas.
It's like, okay, but it does use gas.
Like when I'm doing this job of towing,
but it saves me gas like when I'm not.
So it does everything the EV does except for like,
but, but how much does this cost to me?
$90,000.
Okay.
So how much gas do I have to use over the life of the vehicle?
If I'm just buying a $40,000 F 150 to save $45,000 worth of gas.
That's a shitload of gas guys.
This is so much goddamn gas.
Like maybe it's not like we're solving the problem wrong.
Solving for X is like, like, like we're going about this wrong.
Well, but hang on.
The diesel upgrade, which like the drive experience of the diesel
and the EV to me seems similar in some of its benefits.
But the diesel is, you know, in a heavy duty truck,
that's a many, many thousands of dollars upgrade.
It's like nine grand. Yeah.
But here's the thing.
I think that seeing it as a solving a problem is necessarily the wrong
way to do it,
unless the problem is creating a desirable truck for the wealthy buyer.
Because logically that's why all the top end ones exist.
You know, one needs a Raptor, right?
But the Raptors are really expensive.
If we see your TRX again,
it's going to be equally as crazy expensive.
The RHO is already expensive.
So nobody quote unquote needs those trucks.
And I think EREV is going to fit into that same framework.
So one benefit, I think,
to the manufacturer for continuing this process.
And I think this is part of what,
why we see the F-150 going this direction and,
and the RAM probably is going to happen.
Because if we see a fundamental political change in the U.S.
in three years only,
then we go back to what we had before,
then these manufacturers are going to need things that meet
ZEV mandate credits and this credit and that credit.
And that kind of vehicle would do that for them.
So they would be back on the compliance scheme.
And then maybe they can stick bigger batteries in it later if they need to
or something like that.
But I also,
I also think that fundamentally,
if,
if you are selling it in the wish,
the wish universe, right? Where you're,
everything is perfect.
If you are actually selling it to the customer that's plugging it in regularly.
And they're,
and they're doing that.
And they're only using the range extender for those times where they want to road
trip or they want to tow,
then you probably still have one on an emissions level.
And you've given them wrapped or R-like performance,
which apparently they want because that's a thing.
And you've also given them the ability to extend regenerative breaking for longer
than you would in a regular hybrid.
So I could see a world where it would be a more pleasant towing experience
in them than other gasoline trucks,
because you'd have less worry about break fade going down the Davis dam,
that kind of situation,
because you could regenerate all the way down the hill, et cetera,
possibly even if the battery is full,
because there's a gasoline engine you could spin,
which is what Honda does to,
to eat up some, some electrons, right?
So if the battery is full and just uses the generator to just spin the engine.
So you have,
you have some of those things that are quote unquote solved.
So all you're describing to me is a powertrain upgrade.
All you're describing to me is I'm paying more for a more premium experience.
The same way that like instead of buying, you know, a, a Pentastar v6 Ram,
I'm buying a supercharged Ram only in addition to getting performance.
I'm also getting like efficiency and tow and other things,
but you're paying a price for it too.
So it's like, so that's all it is, is just a want, not a need necessarily.
And it's going to be small.
It's going to be such a small market. Like I just,
Oh yeah, it's not going to be big.
The other two areas where I think could be helpful is that I think intrinsically,
an F 150 lightning extended range as,
as has been envisioned by most of the prognosticators out there should be
intrinsically less expensive than a big battery Silverado or Sierra,
because it shares more with the F 150. So there's savings there,
the smaller battery pack savings there, et cetera.
So it should be intrinsically less expensive.
I mean, as we see now lightning was, was less expensive than a lot of those other options,
but also if Ford can parlay their existing, you know, sales job on hybrid,
et cetera to commercial shoppers, there could be an interest,
the ability to offer large amounts of power.
If they can push that further, there are definite synergies there.
A lot of commercial customers love the F 150 hybrid,
not necessarily because of the fleet fuel economy,
but because of that job site power,
the pro power on board, which is that that's the best feature,
but you can already get that today.
We're out of the light problem, right?
So the only benefit to this would be you could pro power for longer without the
gasoline engine being on or maybe they will allow it,
maybe they'll allow it to deliver more power.
I don't know why you and I would need that,
but I could see say a utility company wanting more off board power because we do see that now.
Like PG and he has micro grid forming trucks that they will send out.
They have their own company that does extended range EV or serial hybrid
conversions for some of these heavy duty trucks.
And they'll roll out a truck that can do 60 70 kilowatts power off boarding to
reconnect a block of homes or they're doing a transformer replacement.
So they'll hook up whatever load is normally on that transformer to their utility truck.
A very limited case, but I could see some business case around some of these things
that maybe would be better served by that than an F 150 hybrid,
but very nice.
I'm just curious to see outside of this truck market with the cafe.
I keep trying to tell people, I'm like, what are they going to like,
you know, with this big Ford announcement, I kind of took like a very,
what was the word like over exaggerated like, wait,
they're not bringing back the excursion.
They're not bringing back the V 10, like what kind of announcement was this?
It sounds kind of woke to me.
Like I kind of took like a joking, you know, way, you know, but in all seriousness,
like you said, Alex, I don't think the market is really going to change all that much really because of this.
Because again, consumers aren't suddenly going to want less fuel efficient cars.
And even under the best circumstances, which, you know, when they publish this announcement,
they said this could bring down car prices by they literally use this terminology to terminology as much as $1,000.
They didn't say $1,000 or more.
They said as much, I'm like, that's it.
That's all you're guessing it's going to do.
You could have said the sky is the moon.
You said it could have said $5,000.
You could have said 20%.
You could have said all this, you know, you know, terrible hybrid stuff and EV development has caused,
you know, cars to balloon and, you know, the thousands, $1,000 is all we're going to save.
That's nothing.
And I could bet that the person that's complaining about a $55,000 or a $50,000 average new car is not going to be that pleased with the $49,000 new car.
Yeah.
Oh my God, the average new car is 48,000.
If we see that savings, it's not going to be right now because there's not a lot that they're going to delete right away to save $1,000.
You're A also going to spend more on fuel because you're going to get a less efficient car.
But then by the time we see these more affordable quote unquote vehicles that are less efficient,
$1,000 is going to be worth less because of inflation.
So that's kind of a tricky problem there too.
And then car development cycles are just longer than one administration.
That's something else a lot of people forget is that the average new car development cycle is somewhere between five and seven years depending on the manufacturer and what they're doing exactly.
These are not things they can turn light switches on and off.
Even if we're talking about accelerating to Chinese development cycles because the Chinese car companies develop cars in like astronomically short windows, something like three years.
I mean, this administration's over in three years.
Right.
I think a lot of people would be happy if you said tomorrow your car won't have stopped start because I know that's a big one that I see people complain about all the time.
If you have a hybrid, literally it doesn't matter.
I know some gas cars still don't have the best or even a mild hybrid, but I know a lot of people don't like that.
Okay, maybe your car is going to be $300 cheaper.
Like, are you really even going to notice that when you're like doing all your finances and stuff like that?
That's not even like half of one car payment.
Like that is literally nothing.
Okay, your car is not going to have automatic emergency braking.
The one time that you are not like paying attention enough and it doesn't stop you.
I know it's a little annoying that the like, oh, it was a little too sensitive.
I was going to stop it.
Oh, yeah.
Sure, you were buddy.
Like, well, the one time it does catch you that you're like, oh, that was actually kind of useful that time.
Well, guess what?
Now it's a rear end collision and now you were at fault.
And guess what?
The $300 or $1,000 or whatever automatic emergency braking cost to put in a car.
I've never really seen it itemized.
Like whatever it costs to save you and God forbid it's ever like a worse crash that somebody falls asleep or whatever.
The 600 lives a year or whatever that it saves.
Like guess what?
Well, I guess you can go buy a nicer casket with the money you saved.
Well, and also you're deductible and now you're increasing insurance costs.
Yeah.
And that is the tricky bit is that that a lot of what was said recently in and around the same announcement was that maybe we will roll back safety standards as well.
And that could be a solution to saving money, but it can be a false economy.
But we must move on from there because this extended length episode needs to end with one of our games.
The choices here guys are defend the indefensible or would you rather and you don't get a description of either one until you have made a choice.
I will be the tiebreaker.
Oh my gosh.
Jerry defend the indefensible or would you rather.
I'll play would you rather I guess.
What is your take Travis.
I'll defend the indefensible.
Okay, defense.
So let's see here.
Let's go with the defend the indefensible then.
So here's what we're going to do.
I'm going to set a timer.
And then you are going to get a topic that you are going to have to defend whether you like it or not.
All right.
And your defense must I suspect Alex is going to give me one that I like so there's no concerns here.
I probably shouldn't have taken this I'm so good.
And your your defense must last at least one minute and 30 seconds.
Oh my goodness.
Okay, so we have our, we have our timer here set.
Let's go for that one minute 30 seconds.
You're not trying to get into the purpose right.
Jared, your, your first topic is specifically the Jatco CVT is the best transmission ever designed and every vehicle should have this from hypercar to economy car from electric car to diesel car.
Every car should have a Jatco CVT begin.
So I have to argue that Travis does you have to argue that.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
Well, the Jatco CVT is not as bad as everybody says.
Everybody gave it a flack very early on because it did have some service issues and it did need to get service.
But I have not been hearing those same service bulletins ever since very new cars, such as, you know, the, the new Centra, the new Versa those cars have been relatively problem free.
And you know that cars like the Honda Civic Type R are only offered in a manual and I have talked to engineers from Honda about why that is that they do not offer a automatic in a car like that.
And they said, well, the reason we do not offer an automatic is because it wouldn't be as fun or as an engaging, but if we did offer an automatic, it would be a CVT because a CVT is the best type of automatic for always putting the power down in the best
power band because a CVT is infinite so that you can always have the engine at its peak power band at all times.
So if you are in anything from a Versa all the way up to a Koenigsegg, the CVT will always be able to manage its power infinitely.
You never have to go through ratios.
It will always be able to manage itself on the pulley to always be able to put the power down exactly where you need to do it.
Oh, and we have hit our timer.
So there we go.
You know, okay, Mark, we'll go for okay marks there.
I was expecting some some soliloquies about the rubberiness of the transmission being the ultimate feel and you needed that rubber bandiness and and no one wants shifts that are crisp or smooth.
So, you know, passing grade, but just barely there.
And as the commercial says, Alex expectations, that's crazy.
So Travis, it is your turn now and your topic is that we do not have enough screens in new cars in number or in size, both, both quantity and size.
You may begin.
Here's the reality, right, is that we have more information available to us now than ever before.
And as we know, information is key to success.
It's knowledge, it's intelligence, it's decision making or decisions that can be made for us on the go.
And I have a car that has one screen and it has so much information on that one screen.
I have to look one place to get it.
Wouldn't it be easier if in your line of sight, you had a box of screens in basically your window that had everything you need.
You want to look in your rear view.
You go ahead and look at your rear view screen.
There's one camera who needs mirrors cameras dead center left and right.
Those are just two more screens of our approximately 19 to 20 screen layout.
Because if you need your speed, that should be located where people call a heads up display.
That's basically just a screen.
So there's your speed screen and then less important information that you will glance to from time to time.
How about how much gas you have or your average efficiency.
That's a screen or two screens depending on how you want to put it because it's all about options and we live in a world full of options.
That's just your driver's screens because your passenger could be feeding some of this information to you so you can get it verbally, audibly, instead of visually.
And that's just going to help mean that every information you have on the screen in front of you, the visual intake is just that much more efficient.
You can also track every vehicle around you.
There are six different screens for that based on the six different views and they're actually tracking the vehicle, not just where it's at in the space.
And that way maybe you can see if that person is paying attention.
And we hit our level.
Excellent, excellent job there, Travis.
We'll give Travis the winning score in round number one.
That was A for effort there.
None of these were shared previously.
My heart.
But, but.
Okay, we have to show everybody a picture here.
I don't know if everybody is familiar with the Fiat Multiplush.
Are we familiar with this?
Have we seen this before?
Yes.
Okay.
So, Jared, your task is to convince us that the Fiat Multipla is not the best car ever designed, but it is the single best looking sexiest car ever conceived of by mankind.
You may begin.
Okay, if you want to pull up to a cars and coffee and you want to have more attention than somebody with a Ferrari Enzo, at least here in America, you should buy a Fiat Multipla.
You are going to get so much attention because everybody is going to ask you about the double decker styling.
This thing, I mean, Italian styling, what more do you want?
Everybody knows that the Italians know how to design things and the Fiat Multipla is no exception.
Of course, what else does it have that all car enthusiasts know are cool?
A manual transmission doesn't get much cooler than that.
It also has three abreast seating, so that is something that is also really interesting.
I mean, look at that interior, blue seats.
That is the epitome of style right there, the triangular steering wheel, all of those weird geometric shapes.
Even the interior is just so cool.
The way that that gauge pod is designed, just the shape of the gear lever, everything about that interior is very cool.
This was during an era that had some of the worst interior plastics that you could ever imagine.
Fiat was no exception, but they crafted it into something that just looks so cool, that looks so much like a spaceship.
Everybody is going to want to ask you about this when you drive this around, especially in America where these were not sold new.
You are just going to be so cool and everybody is going to ask you about your family.
And your time is up.
That was better grade than round one, but the win will be down to Travis, who must now, let's go ahead and remove this from our review here.
Travis's task is that he must now explain why piano black is the ultimate interior car trim and every surface should be liberally coated with it.
You may begin.
Yes. Well, what draws attention more than a beautiful piano?
And while we can't have this tone in our lives at all time, we can bring some of it with us.
And if you want to take care of your car and take care of your items and take care of yourself, what you need is joy in your life.
And what brings more joy than a shiny black surface?
And we know that because every surface that we are drawn to, including screens segue is a shiny black surface, at least at some point.
Now, you might say that shiny black is only good when you first get it.
And that's true, which is why we've invented replaceable shiny black piano black panels for everywhere in the vehicle.
So no matter where it is, you can go ahead and replace it.
So it continues to give you that joy every time you step inside.
Is it too reflective to have it right on the dashboard?
Maybe if you live where there's sun, but what if there was a piano black windshield option?
That's called a heavy tint.
And now we have it on our windows, not just our surfaces.
So wherever you look, it looks showroom fresh every single day.
And yes, you're going to have to replace them, but that's what the package is available at the dealership for.
Child, your extended piano service agreement.
And that means all you have to do is pull it in and each of these panels likely where you put things like your hand.
Of course, the steering wheel is piano black as well as your keys, your cup holder.
That one's a little tricky, but don't worry.
It's open.
Timer has expired.
It's perfect all the time.
Bonus points for effort there, although I didn't hear why it was the best interior trim.
Although I did love all of the rest of it though.
I just don't know why it's the best interior trim yet.
So for our next task, Jared, you have the tricky one here.
You have one minute and 30 seconds to tell us all why the Mazda Miata is not a sports car.
Oh, you suck.
I hate you.
I hate you so much.
Because remember it's slower than a Camry.
I hate you so much.
I hate you.
You may begin.
Oh, the Mazda Miata isn't a sports car because sports cars generally have to be fast.
And the Mazda Miata only has a four-cylinder, weak engine that isn't very fast.
You can also get it with an automatic.
And everybody knows that a true sports car should only be purchased with a manual.
And sure, Mazda offers one, but it is only very good.
And it's not perfect like Honda's manual or Porsche's manual, which are better.
So if I were going to get based on the manual transmission alone,
I would get a Porsche or a Honda because those are better.
And everybody knows that the right place for an engine to be is behind you.
And stupid Mazda, they put the engine in front of you, which is the wrong place.
And then obviously the trunk is too small.
So you can't even use it to do other things.
People who buy sports cars might also want to go golfing and you can't even take it to do sports.
So if you play sports in your sports car, it can't even do that.
You'd have to put your golf clubs in the passenger seat.
So it's kind of silly with that.
You also can't be a businessman driving it.
And our timer is bonus points for the pain that we could see that this inflicted upon you.
That was good.
I almost saw a tiny tear.
You're an evil man.
I almost saw a tiny tear descend and glistened in the sunlight there.
Travis.
Let's keep getting higher as we went.
We kept getting higher and higher.
I thought there was helium coming into the room.
So Travis.
You just lost half his followers.
Our last defend the indefensible for the championship here is tricky.
And here it is from Acura, Tazanda and everywhere in between.
Front wheel drive is the only drive you should have rear wheel drive should be banned.
All wheel drive should not exist.
All cars should only have front wheel drive.
You may begin.
And this doesn't even feel like defense.
It just feels like education to the masses about the reality, which is that the more
efficiency we have in design, the better every single product is going to be.
We know for sure that rear wheel drive is for hooligans and chaos.
And it's the least safe way to drive a vehicle is having power behind you because you never
know what's happening behind you.
It has to be in front.
And of course you could go with an all wheel drive layout, but now you're splitting that
power, which means you're losing efficiency in your front to rear.
You're also losing some connectivity because some of these cars even have two different
motors, which is crazy for what they're doing with all wheel drive.
No, no, no, you need everything in front of you where you can see it or you can trust
it and where you can feel it.
And of course it's great for all conditions.
Your everyday drive.
Well, most of those are already front wheel drive.
They have figured it out.
But when we're talking about more difficult driving scenarios, if you're low on
traction, then all the weight is already in the front.
So you're not worried about sliding around again with that silly madness happening behind
you and rear wheel drive and you're not losing the efficiencies or maybe the
unpredictability is in the software designed all wheel drive.
Everything's there in front of you.
And when it comes to sports cars, well, the fact is they've been relying on this
rear wheel drive.
So they're actually being held back in their engineering because they haven't been
pushed to the limits because we know that front wheel drive can do everything
all together.
And yes, we have seen this thing called understeer.
But Honda, good news, figured that out a long time ago.
They had this prelude or time is handling system.
No understeer ever.
Time is up bonus points on the hustle.
But extra points would have been awarded if you could have explained that it is
possible to drift and donut a front wheel drive car in reverse.
It takes extra skill to that one and dedication.
A rear drive car.
And think, actually, it's, it's a, that's true.
I guess, but it's a front wheel drive car just going backwards.
I broke a half shaft in a car of mine once because I was doing backwards donuts
because that's, it's all ahead.
Any rate, thanks everybody for watching this, watching this episode.
Clearly the award by a whisker goes to our guest Jared because of how pained he
was trying to defend the, not a sports car, but a very, very close second to
Travis who brought all, all the emotion and, and his clear, clear college acting
skills to the contest here.
So everybody see you next week.
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