Ferrari Breaks the Rules Again, ZR1X Performance Shock, and Has Porsche Lost Its Way?

The two biggest announcements of our lifetime may have just happened today. Number one is

Indeed we're gonna have full disclosure about the aliens. I know this is not a mode of podcast

I'm talking about aliens, but it looks like it's coming looks like they're either have been here forever or math

They're visiting us, but let's set that aside. I think the secondary bit of news is ten times bigger than aliens

the ZR1X

Just basically broke all speed records for all production cars ever made. This is full throttle talk. Welcome back

Welcome to full throttle talk the podcast where horsepower meets conversation

From supercars to classic legends high revving tech to motorsport mayhem

We covered all straight from the driver's seat whether you're a gearhead eraser or just love the thrill of the open road

You're in the right place buckle up hit the gas and let's go full throttle into today's episode

So on today's show, we're gonna be talking about three different topics. We're gonna be talking about what did you do in cars this week?

We're going to be talking about obviously automotive news

I just gave you a little indication what might be that on all of our minds segment three

We're gonna talk about something boom boom boom very controversial has porceloss this way

It's a 20-year cycle of porceloss basically falling on its sword repeating itself and segment four assuming we have time

We're gonna talk about this or that and today's question is

You have by the way guys

I don't know if you noticed by how to change this question a bunch of times

You have to choose your forever car a sports car that you can grow old with or in our all three of our cases older

It is your only sports car. You will never sell it

What one car would you choose present two options and we all vote on this or that so without any further delay Blair and shenu

Welcome back to full throttle talk and let's go

Thank you. I'm glad to be here. All right. Let's have a lot of fun today. All right, so let's get into it guys

What did you guys do in cars this week? What what excited you?

What's the thing? What was the high point automotive of your week this week?

Well, maybe I'll start I

It's a little cold here in Salt Lake, but we've had some mild winter weather

and a buddy of mine one of the great things about the car community to me is that we all have

Cars that we either are curious about we've always wanted to drive

We're thinking about buying or we've always kind of hated and want to see if we're right or wrong or how we feel about that particular car

So I had a buddy approach me and say, you know what e46 m3s have always been a

Dream car of mine, and I've only driven a convertible SMG kind of them. I

Hate to say the dog of the e46 m3 lineup, but maybe the least

Because I have a story about that later. I'll bring up

For those of you with e46 m3 convertibles SMG. Hey, I get it

We all have our thing and I have owned a convertible e46

But this particular one is he said I would love to drive your car

So my buddy came over this past week. He has a AP to s2000 and if you can

Tip for tat a little bit. I'll scratch your back you scratch mine

That that's what we did. So I took his s2000 out beautiful day. He took my e46 m3

We did a nice 20 30 minute drive took a couple of pictures

I've got it posted up in in my backdrop there. So

That's what I did had a great drive in a Honda s2000, which I will never turn down the opportunity to do

You can't just leave it at that. So how was the s2000? I've never driven one. She knew if you driven one

I have they're great. I think they're one of the great sports cars of our time

Designed I designed in Marysville, Ohio by the way, and I know that because when they were designing that car

Julie and I were selling real estate nearby. So there you go. So describe it. What was it like Blair?

Well, there's two variations of the s2000 the first generation was which is known as the AP one

Little I prefer those frankly I've driven both those and the AP two

I think the AP one went from two year 2000 to 2003 and I had the AP two from 0 4 to 0 8

So we're actually talking about the same time frame

I mean, these are two of the same generation

Performance enthusiast cars, which is very cool to to to drive them back to back

The AP two is great revs to 8,000 RPMs. I mean, it's just a buzzy

Buzzsaw of a car a little car

Small I love roadsters and the shifter is perfection. So compared to it compared to a Miata. Oh

Well, I'm gonna go with the AP one, which is more of my preference and

Every AP one revs to 9 grand. It's got a quicker steering rack than the AP two

Little scarier

Dynamically, I think they improved a lot in the AP two and added more torque, but it compared to a Miata

less

Care less like jovial and fun

It the Miata you want to get in and just start sliding around you get you get a little body weight transfer

You it's just hilarious. It's whimsical

Whereas an AP one or a AP two s 2000 little more of an edgy hardcore

Got got this kind of let's go ring me out and push me kind of vibe

So I think I would tell somebody well, what do you want? Do you want hilarious fun?

I might say Miata fits that bill more if you want

Fun yes, but a little more edge a little more hardcore in your face engine

That's an s 2000 you you a concussion you or would you throw a lot?

Yeah, I mean listen Honda is a company that is known for their engines

They happen to wrap cars and motorcycles and planes around these things, you know

But they're really an engine company first and that engine in an s 2000

You know one of the jewels of our lifetime, you know, absolutely wonderful wonderful engine that first version of the s 2000

The rear suspensions a little bit more dynamic, you know a little bit looser. So it's certainly

Scared out, you know a bunch of people and they kind of tamed it down in the second version

But you know arguably a wonderful driver's car, you know to me a sports car a roadster is like the

Classic, you know form factor of a sports car. So I kind of feel like that's 2000 kind of nailed it

How is it that never has fallen in your crosshairs for your business? I can't you don't that wasn't one of your cars

You focused on was it? Yeah, no, it really wasn't interestingly enough. I mean we I

Had been waiting for the Lotus Elise since the 90s

So when that car yeah, I mean when that car finally they said they're bringing one to the States

I said, all right, I've got to have that car

I mean that is exactly what I wanted and so I was just so singularly focused on the Lotus Elise and

Waiting for years my deposit was with the Lotus deal for years before it finally, you know, it showed up in November of 2004

Yeah, we did miss the s 2000

You know, but you know wonderful car love that thing and I'm so glad they brought it

I was teasing you prior to the record today that we need to definitely do a show focus on Lotus

Maybe we do that next week, you know focus all of our questions on that because

Even if you go Lotus exige forward, there's so many cool variants as to s 240 s 260

What's that crazy-ass race car thing that has well, I want I want a v6 cup. That's what I want to drive. Yeah, exactly

Cup is wonderful. There's you know, you might be thinking of the 211

No, no, no, the crazy one looks like an erector set has no doors. You have to step into it. No roof. Oh, yeah

So the the 340 are yeah that one awesome car awesome car, you know absolutely influence for us

But the pinnacle of crazy that they produced was called the 311

So basically a v66 z with an old roof step in car

Wonderful car

What a great brand lots of ups and downs

Amazing, you know amazing brand. What so what did you do in cars this week? What stands out in your mind?

Oh, by the way, if you're watching us on you or if you're not watching us on YouTube

We do put up pictures behind ourselves

But if you're just listening to us behind Blair is a picture of a beautiful e46 and these s 2000

And of course she knew it's gonna bring a picture of a lotus to tease all of us and not just any lotus either

So go ahead sir. Yeah, so this past week we we've we've finished up some tuning on a lotus emira

So there's a new variant of the emira that has the AMG four cylinder

So we managed to get into that ECU unlock it and tune it and we've made

Significant amount of power. So super excited about that. You know that that engine once it fully gets uncorked

It's gonna be the performance, you know variant to have

So that was pretty pretty exciting, you know that that car looking for it. Actually, it's a client's car

He's gonna be picking it up tonight

So I'm looking forward to getting feedback from him because he's he's he's on the car for over a year

So it'd be great for him to get in it and give us some some good feedback

So that was for me probably the biggest, you know fun fact, you know, we we bought a

1996 Miata a couple weeks ago and so happened to get that thing smogged and registered. So that car is getting all prepped

We did a bunch of service on it. So that'll be available. You know, I'm calling it our our modern low-to-sea lawn

So excited about that as well. Did you guys hear about the emira and well only in Australia that's got 500 horsepower

What's the story with that? I think I sent you guys a link for that one. Yeah. Yeah, the bathurst edition

So, yeah, you know again smart stuff, you know, the importer there in Australia

They decided to make a variant for themselves

Effectively to just generate buzz and excitement and that's exactly what manufacturers should be doing

I think in this case, it was probably prompted by their importer to create a variant that would be, you know

celebrate one of their great racetracks and

Create some buzz around the car to get people excited and when you do that, you know, like these special editions whether

you know, it's a speciale or

Scuderia or you know, an ST or R or whatever that you think these are wonderful smart strategies and

Just I'm clear that was a dealer that essentially the Australian network

I essentially modified that car. It was a that's it wasn't an official

It was official Lotus product, but only because of that dealer network

So I'm not 100% sure if they modified it

I think it was done with with Lotus, you know, hand-in-hand and

They must have, you know, convinced Lotus. Hey, look, we'll buy 15 of these and

Here's what we'd like to do with it

And you know, Lotus is always keeping a few things in their hip pocket when it comes to their cars

You know, that's why there was an S220 and an S240 and an S260 exige

And so on these AMG powered cars, there's several variants that I'm sure they're just tuning variants that they're just gonna

Uncork the power every year. Give us a little bit more power

You know, for example when they introduced that car in the UK

It made less power than the one that we actually ended up getting here in the States

So I think that's all it is

But it I think it's a smart strategy and I think it's gonna work for them to keep some buzz going, you know

Down under when we do our Lotus show probably next week

Let's all we should focus on some of the Lotus Rastomans

You and I have been, you know sharing information about that

I actually share with all you guys and I couldn't believe there's Rastomod Lotus Elise's out there S1's that are freaking like what?

250 350 grand it's making your one your your RS look even better, you know, yeah

Well as far as the price point, so maybe I made a mistake, you know, maybe I need to raise my prices. Well, I

Go ahead. I was gonna say that's probably a great time to congratulation you on a oh, yeah

I'm at Matt Farah review of that 111 RS that I had people texting me about that

He's gonna that's a thought that better be his automotive news, but let's let's move on

That better be

Tim Tim your video in your background is some go karting

So I got to hear about what what the island life on the go kart track is like

Well, I don't I mean basically a long story short. It's my dream and I

Quit go kart racing and all racing that I'm watching I'm getting mesmerized as I'm watching my own video

But I I quit all racing basically when I was in my 20s because Julie and I wanted to focus on building a business

And I always promised myself I'd get back to go kart racing and fortunately the family that basically develops our community

They have a big passion for go kart racing as well

They were gonna build this track of specifically just for their family and then someone had the bright idea

Why don't we open it up the community and that's what they did?

Long story short that is actually my daughter Zoe out there because she's getting into it as well

And we're going so we're a go kart racing family Julie and Zoe are gonna share one and I'm gonna have my own

And these go karts if you guys don't know anything about them

They're not like the types of go karts that you these are Tony karts, but they're all branded Lando Norris. They're electric

Mine's gonna have 43 horsepower. I think there's that's 34 horsepower the carts way 200 mine weighs 260 pounds

So you're talking about something that's legitimately fast

There's a straight you maybe if we watch long enough and that's Zoe. That's her first time around look at her. She's cook

Wow. Yeah, that's awesome. She's 12 look at her

That's crazy, right

Very cool. I mean, it's incredible. But in any of that, so what was that like as a dad watching? I cried honestly really?

Yeah, yeah, I cried I did

Because you can enjoy it. Well, I was totally proud of her then Julie went out and let's just say no crying there

I was super slow, but Joey's oversteering at every corner and catching it. She and I'll tell you where I was really impressed

She drove she drove it off off the track and then she just drove it right back on step and kept on doing hot laps

And if she was she was lighting the tires up coming out of the apex because these things make so much torque

You know, but anyway, they're they're real cool. Yeah, and down the back straight mine will go almost 70 miles per hour

So long story story. It's been my lifelong dream and it's in a massive

You know, I'm very happy. I guess is all I have to say about that

Of course, I could talk about it forever. Oh cool

That's yeah, but when you guys come visit us in Puerto Rico, we'll go to this private track

And you'll understand completely if you don't already. Okay here. We're coming up on the back straight. You could see her right after this tour

Sorry, I gotta teach my screens. All right, let's move on to

If when I do come I've got twin 13 year old boys, so we we need to get them out there

Yeah, no 100% and furthermore

There's some loaner carts that you guys could use and they could definitely experience it

You know, I I don't know if you guys have ever really been in anything that so go cart rate

I don't want to waste time talking about it, but long story short is go cart racing

Unlike normal motorsports racing is completely different and you can learn racing skills from go cart racing

But it doesn't directly transfer to actually racing for example, you know a real race car because there's no suspension

Not real suspension on a go cart

You can control that there are essentially you can control camber caster

You can there's a little sway bar things you can build in but there it doesn't flex the only thing

It's flexing is yourself, but these things pull such

consistent

G-forces in the turns

And I came back in after I did my hot laps

Guillermo who was running the track. He said you need to get a rib guard. He said because you're gonna fracture

Your ribs and not know it until after you're off the cart when you try to get out because the g-forces

You're pulling on both sides of your body. Okay, so does that sound fun to you sounds fun to me?

That's awesome. All right, let's move on to automotive news. All right

This has been a lot of there's a lot of on news automotive news that's come out in the last week always is so Blair

Why don't you go first? Oh

I don't want to make this a total rant, you know, here we go

But you know as you see in my in my my background picture my first automotive love is BMW

And I've read an article from AutoCard this week saying that the BMW M2

They're now gonna put the X-Drive all-wheel drive system onto the M2

and

And it's like

My first question is why I I get I get frustrated by this and and they've got plenty of

Performance cars the M3 the M4 the M8 you got the competition models

I don't understand why they can't just leave the M2 the way it is and and I

Get everybody's gonna say well you can add more power and you can actually use the power and you can launch it in

zero to 60s faster if you're

Running all four wheels, but the other thing that they're gonna say as well

rear-wheel drive limits the the ability for those for many to daily drive this car

And I just want to share to two winters ago Salt Lake City had the snowiest

Wet as winter in the history of the state of Utah. I mean it dumped snow like you would not believe and

You know it was seemingly every other day we were getting three to six inches of snow. It was unbelievable

You want to know what car I was daily driving as a commuter? I do about 2,000 miles a month

You know every single year. It was a BMW M2. It was a 2016 M2. I bought it

Like a day or two after Thanksgiving and I thought I'm gonna make this thing my daily

I'm gonna see if I can do this 2 plus 2 rear-wheel drive manual

it was the the first og m2 they call it and

This this obsession and I live in a winter climate you guys don't I know tim you've lived a variety of places

You're both from

You know originally from the midwest I believe

Are you from that midwest now?

Yeah, I'm from Detroit. Oh, I didn't realize you were born there. Wow. Okay, cool. I wasn't born there

I grew up there. I was born in India, but I grew up in Detroit. Ah good

But you know everybody says well if you're in a cold weather climate

You got to have all-wheel drive and that's one of my biggest pet peeves. You would not believe you get

I got blizzak tires

But what's the road? But Blair, what's the real reason they're doing that? They're not doing it. It's it's zero to 60 times

Exactly, they're doing it more horsepower

It's because they're changing their tune and they're getting away from their it's like the s 2000

Right the the version the first I don't remember all the nomenclature

But we were just you guys were both agreeing that the original s 2000 is the car to have versus the the upgraded or the you know

The next generation

Well, it's because what happens is that once they satisfy the very tiny niche of enthusiast buyers like you guys

then the next round are the

Opposers, dare I say and they're looking for a different experience than the original guys and they're just that's what's happening

And so that's happening with Porsche

It's it's happening with all the different manufacturers

They dump they make the cars so that more people with less skill can drive them

It has nothing to do with all the things that they claim and they get heavier and they get more luxurious

And then they start selling people detail or decal package and stick in a paint. I mean that's really what it is

And I'm okay with them having some of those variants totally if that's what somebody wants

But why not keep a variant that is different is one of my big gripes the other and this is part of why

Maybe part of the the reason some of this is happening. So I also just read we should talk about it

Maybe down the road car and driver if anybody still subscribes to that they just put out their top sports cars of 2026

One of those was the z4

m40i with the manual transmission bmw

And you know, I love car and driver they do a great job

But they put the pros and cons of each of these models that they're they're

reviewing you're talking about

one of the cons for the z4

manual

Was that there was no all-wheel drive option and I about fell out of my chair when I read that was like that is not a con

I don't understand and so when

You know, if you have if you have journalists

Bagging on these cars like an m2 or a z4 that there's no all-wheel drive option

I think well they they probably listen to that to some extent too and those guys have influence

I don't get it because those guys are those guys are placating their their masters and their masters of the

OEMs who are basically paying their salaries through ads and inviting them into wine and cheese events on you know

Exotic islands where you know all over the world. That's who their masters are. That's the right

Listen, I mean, I I'm old enough to remember e30 m3's languishing on dealer lots unsold

brand new

Right. I moved to california 26 years ago and there was a dealer in la that had an e36 m3 lightweight

Unsold, you know sitting there and so the problem is that's where these manufacturers have these experiences with these really cool great

Specialty cars and they don't sell enough when they're like, uh, you know again to tim's point

They've got to water it down for the masses that aren't as hardcore

And so I think that's effectively what they're doing gt3 the original 996 gt3's. We had one of those that same damn thing

They couldn't give those cars away

360 cs ferrari's chancer delis they couldn't give those damn things away

I mean that's it's a scuderia is for 30 scuderia now look at those cars you're doing

But I mean, yeah, it's all about it's all about the benjamins at the end of the day

So automotive news to new

So

I was glad to see that outie is still going to come out with this e-v-t-t

You know that to me is such a cool looking car and there was a lot of speculation because Porsche

Had been walking back from the whole e-v thing with their boxer which I support

But I was thinking oh, maybe this outie is going to get the ax as a result

Um, to me outies have always been a little bit more about gt a little more luxury

Less about hardcore and that that tt that I have in my backdrop there

I I love that thing. I think the styling is great and I would drive that as my daily driver

So anyways, I was kind of happy to see that thing

still, you know

Under development and going to be coming to the market

So is that an it it is an e-v or not an e-v. It's an e-v

So you're gonna do right now. Mr. Lightweight. Are you're basically signing up for to basically a okay

All right as my daily driver. I mean, I live three miles from my office. You know what I'm saying?

It's like it

This is to me that kind of perfect car

You know to drive back and forth. You think you don't really think outie that I go to so if I remember correctly

Sorry for interrupting you sir. Do you think that they're going to actually come out that car now that Porsche shelved the 718

Easy and didn't they say that there was going to be a shared platform between those two?

You think they're still coming out that thing? That's what they're saying

That's this outie ceo is saying. Hey, listen, we know Porsche are pulling back

But we are not and so I think you look

Volkswagen or outie group have made the investment in the platform and so

Probably a lot of that is all that expense has already been had and so

You know, it's it's a sunk cost at this point and they can continue to move forward because I think outie again

That's the proper positioning in my mind trying to make outie into a Porsche competitor. I think that's a mistake

There's no reason for them to do that

And I think that this is where these companies are losing their way

And I think we're going to be talking a bit more about that later in today's pod. I believe but we are yeah

I'm excited about this car. I like EVs for a daily driver

Again, it's a different tool for a different task. You know, I'm not driving my Lotus Elise every single day because

The car doesn't even get warm by the time you get to the office, you know

The only time I really drive that car is on the weekends

In the canyons on trips with friends

That's that's where that tool, you know works for that particular job in my mind

Blair, you had a question or I agree if there is a market for this type of car

I think she knew is right. It's withoutie

not with the Porsche Cayman Boxster and

Right because it is more of a GT. They are more comfortable cars

That looks spectacular in my opinion

So we'll see I uh, I won't be a buyer, but I'll like I said when I started this off

We love to share our cars and drive our friends cars. So I'll come down and

Give it a go when you buy one

So I have two little quick bites of news. First of all, um

In the Ferrari world the the pecking order has always been I'll just make it real specific about the car that I had behind me

If you guys are

Not watching us on youtube behind me is a picture of a GT 3

I'm 296 GT 3 race car

So the essence of a the way the Ferrari pecking order has always worked just using 296 as an example

Is there's the oh, I'll actually make it simpler. So look look at the back of the 488

Many of you guys know what a piece does so you had your 488 you had your 488 variants

Maybe it was a gts spider. Maybe it was a gtb burlenetta whatever and then for the select chosen few

You got option to buy a pista, right?

um

All the politics that went behind being selected to buy a pista side

We'll just say that's the way that's always worked. And so I was uh, you julien I had a pista

We were given the we have a 296 gts. We were given the option of buying a g uh, 296, uh, g

Gtb

Speciale in other words, not a spider of the

The fancier version or that, you know, the race car version of the uh, 296

I didn't want to coop. I wanted a spider and so I in my dealer is very nice and they said, well, you know, we get another gts allocate

Or you know, it's a aperta version

Uh, that's what they call it. They don't call it a speciale gts. They call it a speciale aperta

So they said if we get on their allocation, we'll offer it to you

And I'm glad I passed on it because the review started coming out and people said it isn't what it's been the speciale

Wasn't as special as the previous

You know versions of the special cars the 488 pista was completely different than the 488

The 430 scuderia, which we also had was completely different than the um, than the standard. Uh, well

Yes, completely different. I didn't have a 48 uh, 458 speciale, so I can't speak to that

Now again, so you would go with base car. Then you go to the special version. Now they have base car

Then 296 then they have the 296 speciale and now they have something above it

And that's never happened before in ferrari world. And so the speciale is no longer the really special one

It's now the middle child and being a middle child. I can tell you usually get the least amount of love and respect over time

And then

So it's hilarious

Okay, and then

Okay, blare your turn. How many kids in your family?

Oh, I have three kids. How many kids were you? You're you're well. Yeah, you oh, there's seven of us

I'm number six of seven. Okay. Well, there you go. That explains his personality. He was over a love done

It's really so nice. All right. Yes. And so now above it you have one

And it's rumored to believe it's rumored to be called the

296 challenge stradale. Who knows what it's gonna end up being called, but it's going to be more of the race car

So I don't know really how to wrap my mind around it, but I'm going to try to get one nonetheless

So that's the special version of the speciale. What does that do to the speciale?

Uh, you know buyer in terms of what does it do to the resale values on those and here's what's really interesting

The the cs version now and you can tell by looking at the spy shots. No hybrid

Okay, so they see that will be awesome. I hope they do that. I really hope they do that

But think about this to news. So they're Ferrari. This is what's interesting

Ferrari is going to come out with a genuinely lightweight car

And it's not going to have the hybrid which means it will have less horsepower than the standard

You know lower variant cars

And it's going to cost a hell of a lot more

Nobody's ever done that before and I genuinely am excited about that outside of let's just be honest lotus

No one's ever done that before they're actually saying we can sell a lower horsepower car

Because lightweight is going to make this thing so exhilarating to drive. That's exciting to me. What do you guys think?

I love it. I love it. I'm so excited to hear about that. I listen. I'm not a big fan of all these different variants

I think that's a big mistake. I think this product proliferation

That's going on with manufacturers is is out of control

That's it's a usually indication that the market's peaking, you know, but

This is what I was hoping and frankly, I would even be happier if the car would come naturally aspirated

But I think yeah that ship nailed. I think we're we're in the turbo arrow right now. So

But this is super exciting. I hope to make it lighter. You know, it's going to be wonderful. There's no question

It's a Ferrari. This will open the door to manufacturers because the Ferrari's doing it. Let's be honest Ferrari is, you know, the pinnacle, right?

So a Ferrari's doing it and they're they're not chasing horsepower anymore

They're chasing lightweight. That means the other me manufacturers might do the same thing

That to me is about the best automotive news I could come up with until

We'd now talk about automotive news number two and I'm genuinely interested in what you guys think about this today

There's news releases news reports. Finally, the press has lifted the embargo has gone

They're talking about how ridiculously fast the news the r1x says and if you guys heard the numbers

Around two seconds zero to 60, but not just it's just corvettes have always been fast in a straight line

It's actually beat the center around button willow and other tracks. So the fastest handling car

It's just ridiculous. How much this is recasting the supercar hierarchy hierarchy. I think I said it, right

What do you guys think? What do you guys think about this? How do you register with how this thing fits into the world?

well, I I personally feel like

I root for the underdog a little bit even though i'm not

I'm not naturally an american car lover

I do root for the underdog and

But what I think what strikes me more than anything about the zr1 and the zr1x is

You know most

Journalists most, you know outlets. They are starting to get critical in spite of my bmw rant that I made earlier

Getting a little more critical about the high horsepower war and I love

I hope what you said I echo what shinu said tim. I hope ferrari is going to do what you are projecting them to do

Um, but what strikes me about the zr1 and zr1x is yes, they're incredibly fast

Yes, they're incredibly competent on a racetrack. That's been proven. So the engineering behind it is

unbelievable. It's not just horsepower

but

Most of these guys that and gals that review the car

Say it's genuinely fun to drive and and so that's what has me curious where normally I might say that's cool

I like that corvette exists. I like that. They're you know showing up all the the manufacturers are making cars

five times expensive

But if they are truly genuine

genuinely fun to drive at

moderate to lower speeds

And I that's the cabinet right there. Yeah, and I've heard these things are so fizzy

But I've heard they're so fizzy. They're so like alive when you're in the car and make such phenomenal noises

That's and then if you combine that with a little bit of texture and field

That's how you make a car like this fun at a moderate speed. I would love to try it

Blair, what are you thinking? I'm sorry. She knew what are you thinking?

Oh, listen, I I think you know, you hit the nail on the head when you said at moderate speeds, okay?

That's where these cars

It'll be hard-pressed for them to be super exciting at moderate speeds. They're gonna be very exciting on the racetrack

I I'm sure of it the car is so fast when you're you know, when you're at at those speeds

it's impossible for it not to be fun and

Look look when you give general motors some targets

They can nail it that company. They're one of the largest car manufacturers the talent that they have on you know in their bench

It's it's incredible. You know, I'm excited about you know the results of this car

You know GM has no choice but to have to keep chasing the better and better numbers

And you know what they're showing the world is what they're capable of doing from an engineering perspective

And delivering the numbers. So, you know, look man, I'm super excited about it

A zero six is going to make its way into my garage as a GT

You know

And and so it's it's fun to see that I'm you know the zr1 and zr1x is is okay

It's just out to that next step and I'm not particularly interested in that personally

But I'm excited to see an american car company

You know throwing down the gauntlet gauntlet the way they've done and and I think it's it's it's gonna resonate really well

They're gonna sell a ton of them this so this the

If I are making cars I and I am Ferrari or I'm any of these other brands

And I've always one of my usp's your unique selling propositions has always been you know track times and speed

I'm a claren it doesn't matter and all of a sudden some guys in Kentucky

You know are turning out a car that costs

$235,000 whatever costs and blows bugatti varons and all the other things not even a varron

But the newest version of it. They're fast. This thing is faster than electric cars from a

marketing or from a business perspective

That tells me I'm going to be pressured to do things that are going to be different because I can't compete with that

Because if for me to make something like that

So what am I going to do? I think I'm going to go lightweight because that's where you can actually if you're a manufacturer

That's probably where you can get it over on gm because you know personally. I think that's the direction

It's going to go so I'm excited about that lightweight ultimately

Overcomes the lack of horsepower and uh over you know all the things that come with weight

You know slow ultimately makes the car feel dollar and and so if we're going to go the opposite direction

I'm all for it. So Blair. What was your automotive news?

Something about that was that that was a bmw m2 getting all-wheel drive. Hooray. Okay. Good. I can't wait for that

You're excited about that. Did we go through all the automotive news? I think we did. Oh, no, she knew

I did yeah, no, I think we did. I mean we

I think we kind of talked a bit about too many variants is my opinion

I so I think

I think we're all nervous to get to the next section because we know we're going to get a lot of hate for it

But let's go

all right

Well, and maybe to bridge these together

uh rodentrax performance car of the year

Named the zr1 their their car of the year and it was in direct competition with

What I might call the best car currently on sale. Hold that. Let me let me let me read the question

Okay, so they know what we're talking about

So the segment three has porced lost its way has porced lost its way is the 20 year

I got this 20 year cycle from chris harris by the way

Is the 20 year cycle repeating itself where porced seems to hit hard times about every 20 years and then rebuilds and comes out with brilliant cars

so um

Go ahead Blair with what you were saying you want to pick up right where your notes are and first of all

Do you agree do you agree with the premise that porches lost its way?

And you don't obviously have to we can debate it and because this is going to be something that the call to porches

Definitely not going to like us saying anything remotely negative about porcia

Well to be fair to porcia and I said a little bit of this last week. I think

They have a really hard task right now and I don't

I try to not be too

ignorant to what they're having to deal with from a regulatory environment and that's the first

So yes, I do think they're losing their way and they're losing me

which is really sad and I think the the

Car enthusiasts as at large are going to become disenchanted with what they're doing and how they're doing it

But but I will say in support of them is this regulatory environment for the automotive industry

Has seemed to be a complete nightmare to work in you know, if you have

I had a buddy tell me well, no EVs are coming and combustion engines will be banned

Because why because europe california and new york have said so and and it's like okay, I get it

That's compelling enough, but here we are. It was supposed to happen. That was a ban on new car sales

and and

Whether I like it or not. That's what california the EU and and new york have decided is the future

So these guys all start working with that in mind. They

Pull the

You know, they they so that's where I support these guys

And what I will still say in support of portion before I ran to a little bit

I do still think they make the best modern sports car and that's you know, the car that I put up behind me

Which is the new gt3? I would take a gt3 personally over a zr1x

I I haven't driven a zr1x. So I like a manual the fact that they're still building

The the uh, you know traditional naturally aspirated manual transmission

Track toy is

With huge engagement is awesome. And they're obviously making some really cool special editions. So

that all being said

Porsche has lost their way in a number of ways and I think first and foremost for me

Is pricing is absurd for what you're getting in my opinion and number one

I look at the base entry-level Carrera, which I think they're calling the Carrera t

You go look for those things. They're

880 grand msrp

You want a interesting color? You go to the configurator. They're gonna

They want to give you nothing but gray scale colors

And make you pay up for it. You want guards red? It's 1600 bucks. It's oh really guards red

I thought that was it used to be a standard color. It's not. Yeah guards red is 1600 dollars go to the corvette

Go to the bmw configurator. You name it. Isle of man green. You want orange? You want purple?

600 bucks for bmw. It's free or

Included in the cost for a corvette. It's flair open up. Yeah open up chat on zoom

Okay, okay got it. What what do you think you should do?

Yeah, listen, man. I I think too many variants. I think Porsche are

It's peak Porsche right now and they need to pull back. I think there's far too many variants

What is a 20 different?

9 11 variants. I love 9 11. It's one of my absolute favorite cars

I've had a picture of a 73 rs on my wall since the mid 90s and so

Look, I love the 9 11's. I'd love to see them pull that back a little bit

I'd love to see them bring an entry level price. That's a little bit more reasonable

Yeah, I'm with Blair. I think you know thinking that a t is getting 180 000 car seems simply too much and so

I think they've got to be careful that they they lose some cachet by having too many things out there and their prices are running

You know completely out of out of whack, you know, look they they they are still

You know a a company that has shareholders and they have to make profits, right?

So they're looking for that but I think if you spread yourself out too much

You know, I think you start to lose some of that desirability and I would love to see them pull that back a little bit

What if you guys turn the ai on the spreadsheet and so it's translating everything we're saying transcribing everything we're saying

So if you look at the newsletter or the uh spreadsheet and

It's toffee little bit of a conniption. Well, so here's the ultimate problem in my mind

That you have with Porsche is that Porsche is being rewarded for producing more option packages

And not being rewarded

It's the same problem we talked about with the m2 and all these other manufacturers

It's even the original Honda s2000 if a manufacturer is trying to chase margin

They're going to obviously do more accessories and more decal packages and more things of that nature

And it seems to me that's the direction that Porsche is going

Versus like here just let's just put it this way. So the new gt3

is turbocharged

The gt3 has always been a motorsports engine like the parts were transferable if you put a if you put a

Yeah, the g any rs

You know you put them up on lifts and you the parts are the part numbers are the same between the motorsports variants in the street version

Is that new gt3 rs motor with the turbocharged? Is that a motorsports motor? It's not

I there is no motorsports motor that I know of that has a turbo unless they're going to start making it

So that means they're stepping away from another core usp

And that kind of is frightening in my mind because Tim

I mean I would argue just like they had to move to water cooling because of racing right more power and all the cooling that they needed

They had to move away from air cool to water cool

I think the turbos are the probably the only way they're going to stay competitive on track

Is adding a power adder like a turbo in order for them to compete with a zr1 for example in endurance racing at a very high level

Well, I think don't the f1 cars have turbocharged engines. Yeah, yeah tiny little one where see

Yeah, they do they tiny little turbocharged motors, but I mean i'm not saying a turbo is a bad thing

I'm just saying one of the usp is that you always had it as an rs

Porsche owner was the fact that it had essentially a race motor in it. You can't say that anymore

It's not a motor sports motor unless something changes and and I guess that's fine

Most people like we were talking before won't care. It's faster

All of a sudden now the gt3 rs isn't that much slower than a zr1 and people are going to be happy about that

It goes back to try to make something for the masses and people would rather chase numbers than chase experience

So maybe i'm wrong, but we'll have to see you guys. Are anything else to think about this or any other thoughts about this

I think it's I think they're being led by racing, you know and trying to win

I think that's where the turbos are coming into play

I mean, I I think they're being led by shareholders at this point and and some and some bad decisions and

You know, you they talk you we know that the 986 boxster was one of the cars that like saved Porsche

I get it the cayenne was right there too, but and then they decided they're going to pull the 718

Came in boxster, which was the entry-level car one that I actually think is better than most 911s. Yes. I said that but

it's

You know and the reason they gave for pulling that car was not

Because emissions and cafe standards and whatever they said it was a cyber security issue

so I think

That that is that is a big mistake, but they're going to bring it back with an ev this is them trying to find ways to

You know innovate and I think they've done it

Poorly that was one example of why not just keep going with your entry-level mid-engine car

And I don't think no matter how much you innovate that car

And even it became more high-performance than the 9 11

I don't think the 9 11 will ever not be the halo most aspirational car for all enthusiasts

That it's it's the icon. It is the greatest so they could have kept

Developing the 718 in my opinion and given

You know entry-level enthusiasts younger buyers a way in besides a hundred eighty thousand dollar Carrera t that you're going to get in gray

It's like so if all the Porsche's you guys I'm sure will agree that the Carrera t is the definite

Probably arguably the best variant because the others have gotten so expensive and that's just a list

You know you add on all the extras. I'm not sure if I can wrap my mind around amid 300s

Uh gt3 rs and they didn't it's not like those things are scarce. They made a mess of those cars

How those things hold up long term. I don't know I think what I I don't remember the exact production numbers but the gt

992, you know rs

What five thousand six thousand of those things that's a lot. It may be even more. I don't think anyone knows yet

So here nor there

Well, chris harris made a comment that I thought was so fascinating and I've been thinking about he said on his podcast

Is that the gt3 should be the standard 9 11 and he did my question is what what what does he mean by that?

Because those are 300 000 cars. That's right. Yeah, exactly. So that is

Yeah, if they're all if they're all turbocharged, which they're all turbocharged now

Don't you think the minimum level of experience should be essentially what you get from a gt3?

I mean that's what essentially was I mean shoo you said it earlier. I want you to talk about that about that

What's the danger? I mean of having too many variants because there are dozens of you know 9 11 variants right now

Is is just confusion people don't know what the hell they're getting

Yeah, I think there's market confusion certainly you're trying to fill all these little segments

You know and all these little specialized, you know customers

But I think there's a cost associated with that

These are all different part numbers from a manufacturing complexity from a dealer complexity

There's a lot of real cost that they're incurring that they may not really fully realize

And so I feel like yeah, they should pull back

I think even like what we haven't really talked about is and we kind of touch on it

But you know a 9 11 turbo used to be the top level gt if you will or it was you know, that was the car

Now when even the a Carrera t has a turbo on it

It's not the branding now. It's kind of falling away. How about the tycon turbo?

I know ridiculous. I that I couldn't understand that whatsoever

Well, it's it's like I always tell my kids

I wouldn't be so hard on you guys if I didn't think you had potential, you know, you know

You know, you don't yell at the kid on the I coach their basketball team. I don't yell at the kids who you know

They don't quite have it in them. It's like

Everybody wants Porsche to be great. We all love the brand

It's like and that's what's so frustrating about this and this is why I consider buying a 718

Boxster 4 liter is

Because that they were still making a naturally aspirated motor

Up up until like what six 12 months ago and

That was the entry level gt3 in my opinion. You want to hear something crazy?

So I had a 992 gt3

Touring okay, and it was pts interior. You know, I forget what the actual Porsche determines for the interior

Exterior interior the whole thing. Okay. I had one of the first allocations. I got it from a vip friend of mine

Long story short, I didn't like it and now I had a

991.2

Touring and I like that car but between both of them

I now have a 718 spider rs and I will never sell the 718 spider rs. So I'm with you Blair

I think the 718 platform is fantastic and you stick that gt3 motor in it and you stick the pdk s transmission in it

That experience it's a new have you ever driven one of those cars that the spider

Okay, yeah, they're so cool. I really like that car quite a bit

Yeah, it's bonkers right and people bitch about it being too loud. I'm like, okay. It's not for you move on

You know and the crazy ass the crazy ass pop-up tent top. I mean, but it's incredible

Um, yeah, so I think that's where our Porsche it

The other thing it's really troubling and might just this is a silly thing perhaps but the new 992s are so freaking big

Yeah

It's a whale. Why does nobody say that because they're worried about hurting somebody's feelings

I want Porsche's feelings to be hurt

I wanted them to go back to making light cars that made him special in the first place get back to what made him incredible

And stop chasing these

The the weights and the sizes stop trying to appeal to everybody. I mean, that's

You know, that's a mini rant Blair motivated me. What are you guys thinking?

No, I'm sorry

Now's the time for them to kind of, you know

Wean off of all these variants and just make a handful of really special cars

Agreed offer a good lineup of

Performance cars and then every couple years come out with a variant like an r or an st or a safari

I think that would be a good strategy pull back right now a little bit

Get people, you know, I look I think Porsche is a great company

And I think just like anything else when you drink too much you get a bit drunk

Right and I kind of feel they're a bit drunk right now

On all the excesses that they've been able to enjoy these last 10 years

But you know, look when they had the 918 they were having a hard time selling them

Okay, they really were having a hard time selling those cars

And one of the incentives that they came up with is if you buy this you're going to get access to all of our special cars

Right and that allowed people to get the r's and the sts and the safaris and everything else

They were first on the list. So

You know, they've seen difficult times, you know, now you can't even imagine, you know, if they came out with a 918

You know successor that you you it should sell out instantly nowadays, right?

But yeah to the point of Chris Harris saying every 20 years they they're going through this issues

And I think I kind of feel like right now they're at that moment again

Yeah

I hope they like their wounds fast and get back to what they're best at, you know

That would be wonderful

And maybe frankly with Ferrari coming out with their top tier

Mid-engine sports car being focused on weight

That's going to give Porsche permission to no longer give a rat's ass about the fact that the zr1x, you know, is faster than it

You know, because it out horsepowers it and then get back to lightweight

That's I think exhilarating the possibilities that are near futures going to hold for us

Blair you're about to say something

Yeah, no, I was just I was just looking for a little more perspective on Ferrari, you know and and

How Porsche is starting to feel like Ferrari and when I think about that I think yeah

Paint the sample used to be something rare. It used to be something very special

And now I think well what what they're doing is

It feeling like you're they're trying to

Move everybody heard everybody towards paint a sample by stripping out all the interesting colors

Or they're you know gt3s to your point those used to be

And again, I love it. I think it's the best car sold today personally

but

It's there's so many of those things they built and so many for sale

You mean the pts. Yeah the pd. You know

Go ahead. They want you they're building ton of gt3s now

So they're gonna water down their best product go go do a search

See how many are for sale 992s and then everybody it's like if you don't have pts

You don't have anything. So I have a question for you. Okay, two first of all

You guys knew who has the best pts out there who has the best paint to sample of all the oems

Who Cadillac

Really? Yeah, the black wing you can go in and I didn't know about this until we went to a car

We classed here

We went to this Cadillac display the the cts whatever the heck it is the suit and one that

Competits for the m5 if you go to you can actually spec

A billion different colors way more than ports of pts and the interior. How crazy is that? Nobody does it, but it's fantastic

Yeah, now she's gonna get but is that what ferrari did to water water down when you're critical of another brand you love tim ferrari

Is that I'm less familiar with what they've done to

You know frustrate

The ferrari experience is not anything like

Anything any other brand that when the the ferrari experience as a customer is

Let me just put it this way

Let me ask in a form of a question if all the sudden Porsche started depreciating if gt3 has lost 20 or 30 percent of their value

In the first two or three years. What would happen to the Porsche mystique chenille? What do you think?

Yeah, it's gonna plummet

Right. What do you think Blair? It's a simple, you know, what's gonna happen? Absolutely. Okay. Yeah

So how much of the

Porsche mystique is tied to value retention?

And if that goes away and like how many other attributes do we assign to a gt3?

Because they're solid buys and you won't lose your ass on them financially

And if that is no longer the case, would you would you all of a sudden start saying?

Well, you know what? It's only 510 horsepower. You know, would you start being a little bit more objective?

So how much of our opinions about that product are colored by the fact that they've been retaining value?

And what happens if that stops happening?

What do you guys think? I'm gonna buy one if it does because

Exactly

True enthusiasts will buy them exactly

Like what do you think Blair? I'm sorry chenille

You know, listen, I think as long as Porsche continue to race and support racers

Okay, especially these gentlemen racers

That's going to keep the values and the perceived values of their cars high

But if you make too many of them, yeah, I mean they they need to borrow from enzo's playbook

You know make one less car than there is a client and and I think they should pull back frankly

Because I think they are going in the wrong direction. I think that you're going to see those gt3s depreciating pretty pretty aggressively

And I think you're going to see a lot of marginal, you know, overlevered buyers

They're going to bail on those you're going to see more coming to the market

Um, and frankly, I think a lot of unfortunately or fortunately depending on your perspective of the new rs buyers

Were ones that weren't really car people. They're buying them maybe for the you know

The the flex factors the kids like to say and those are going to come to the market soon

But we'll have to see how that all works out a quick question about for a since Blair brought that up

Uh, the ferrari suv for $500,000. Let's say what do you guys think?

Is that the same way?

Yeah, no, no, no the first sangue is the v12. They're coming out this new one called the luce. Oh, yeah

Yeah, luce, luce. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right the johnny ives interior thing. Let's just say beautiful design

Awesome ferrari nails it all that's good. Who's buying one of those?

Who's who tell me who the buyer is I I'd want to pure a sangue. It's what I would want. Yeah, I mean, what do you think?

Yeah, I mean, look if you live in london and you want to drive around the city center

You know, you have to have an ev nowadays, you know, and if you're you're wealthy

I think that's who's going to buy these things

Urban dwelling very wealthy people who want to have something that they can drive

Where you know in town and be seen

so it

Amongst my ferrari friends and I've been buying ferrari since I was 30 and I'm now

56 next month, which is hard to say

But I'll say that I do not know to a person any of my ferrari friends that want to buy one not a person

nobody

Well, they're making they're making such a huge deal about this interior, which I do think is kind of cool, but like

that that's now

The the selling point. I mean, that's that's scary to me that the interior

Matters seemingly more than but this this is what I'm getting at

So if you have the value

And this is going back to what you asked Blair

So if you've got ferrari's have always held their value

Right and they you could make money if not just get out without losing money on it. That's no longer true

Okay, and now you have the ev coming on online and I'm not really sure what that's going to no noise out of a ferrari

That seems to me like that's a major usp

All of these are a step too far and I think the ferrari 296 cs is hopefully

The bend in the road that we've all been hoping for that we haven't seen in a generation of cars

And what would all those same guys say who don't want the luce, whatever it is

What would they say about the 296 cs that has less horsepower would they want that? Oh, yeah, they'd I mean my ferrari friends would I'm just

Hang on exactly all my friend. Yeah, but you know the question is is will they be coerced into buying a luce?

In order to get some special limited edition things and ferrari says no

ferrari says we'll never have we'll never bend the arm of somebody

To buy a car that they don't want to get a car that they want but hasn't been my experience. All right, so let's move on

This or that today

Today we ask the question you have to choose your forever car sports car that you can grow old with

Is your only sports car you will never sell it?

That means Blair is going to have a conniption because he likes to sell cars

What one car would you choose present two options?

And then we vote on this or that rules it has to be less than 250 grand manufacturers suggested retail price

Okay, because otherwise one of you guys would have gotten smart and chose something that

Cost 250 and what you know went to a billion

They made in the last 20 years and has to be a car your wife would drive coast to coast with you in

Good luck. So that that that made things a little bit difficult

I forgot about it. So should you get to go first?

Oh my gosh, I mean Tim you know, you're killing me man

That that last bit is what threw my my choice off

But look I I have been planning to get a gte for exactly that purpose

But because you raised the budget to 250 it changed my my game plan because

Originally, you know, well not originally. I'm still going to get a zero six for for this very reason

I'm going to we're going to travel all in the lower 48 all over the place in a z6 when

I'm going to start buying it next year and then every year we're going to take road trips

I'm going to keep the car on the east coast and then I'm going to fly out there. We're going to get a drive around

but

to to this question

The st the the the the 9 11 st would be the car for me

um, no, no, no, no, no, no

Manufacturer suggests retail price of 250

That that I guess he's under 250, isn't it? No

There's not three plus. Yeah three plus. Oh my god. Oh shit. Oh, all right

Okay, we'll come back to you throw that one out the window. So let's see. Whoa

You got a good one right there

Behind you. That's a good choice

Sorry gt3 touring is

Ah, okay gt3 touring was the one that I had. Yeah, I had price and I realized yes

That is just under that, you know price point and I think that would be the car

It's got luggage space, right? It's got Porsche dealers all over the country. So if I break down someplace

God, I can get that taken care of so yeah gt3 touring is the car that that I would choose in a manual

Do you have to give us two choices to a gt3 touring or or your z6?

Or

No, actually the Amira v6

Ah

Yes, I like that car a lot and you know and if it wasn't for the 250

Then yeah, I would have chosen the Amira because I think that's going to be a car that I could use

And I still have a manual have fun with it

And off I go. All right, we'll go back and we'll in Blair and I will vote on that. You can't vote. All right. So Blair your turn

No, I want yours Tim. I want yours next

Mine, okay. Well, my choices would be a 17

718 spider arrest, which I have right there

And on youtube, okay, we also have a speedster, but I don't know. I mean

I'm afraid I might be just keeping that one for this at this point for the sake of value retention because I never drive it

I just drive the 718 because the 718 is so much more fun

I don't have to think about the value

But the other one would be another car that we used to have which I sort of regret selling which would be a 458 spider

Very nice car a lot of cowl shake if we're you know

Keeping it real here

But between the two of those and both of those had original I did google it to make sure

Both those had an original list price of 250 or less. So those would be my two choices

Now we're going to vote here in a second which one we would choose for ourselves, but Blair your turn

He's redoing us because he didn't read the notes saying it has to be something your wife would go on a drive in I'm guessing

Haha

No, you oh well, it's funny

I missed some of those notes and I went a total different direction with this but

New car

I'm not going to say my new one because you guys kind of covered the basis really. I mean we're talking brand new

I'd take a gt3 or a lot of samira and

And and that's basically already been said. I would take a winged car though

Um, not a touring personally. I want something with downforce, you know the the the whole reason that track

Focus car was invented. Um, so that that's uh, that that's another thought for me, but what what um

What what I did with this and you know, I'm having a hard time pulling up my pictures, but

I I looked at bring a trailer and just a thought exercise of around 230 240 thousand dollars. So

A Carrera s 993 1998 just sold for 230 something thousand dollars and

I thought okay for around 230 250 you could go get a late 90s 993

C2 s

Or I kept it just 1998

Would you rather have that or would you rather have

A Ferrari f355

Coupe with a six speed manual and an e 36 m3

Four-door sedan. So you just basically made your own question is really what you're I did. Yeah, did you have all the instructions whatsoever?

Remember that about you

No, I

I better have a triple A on speed dial and you know what and chenille and I are gonna punish you for not reading instructions

We're gonna choose the one most likely to break down every 20 minutes when you and your wife are driving across the country

All right, that's what we're gonna be getting divorced real quick. She's

It's a good thing I did because after all that Porsche hate we'd all choose

GT Porsches, you know

Okay, but I want to go back to something she knew said and he's got a picture up there

And I really want to talk about this drill down on this with me you guys

I don't your your idea of buying. Okay. So Julie and I and our daughter we drove around the country did exactly what you said

start out in Dallas in a

Audi RS6 Avant which we still have

So that was incredible. But if it were just Julie and I your choice

I think would be the perfect car because the zero six

NAC eight Corvette wherever you'd go, you would never catch any hate for it

You know people it would be and it would be a great touring car

So arguably especially with those things what they're selling for right now

What can you get a nice co6 for like less than a hundred or right around a hundred? Have you checked?

I haven't but I think there's you know, you can get one under sticker now

Yeah, you can get them at a hundred grand right about a hundred grand at 2lt like mid mid spec

You know there at a 125 take your pick

So so explain to me how that isn't just ridiculously good value for the money

Is it is really the let's just use real words is really the snob factor

The only thing that's holding that car back or am I wrong? You know, you're the engineer. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about

No, listen, man

I mean, there's no question that the snob factor matters to a lot of people and you're spending a hundred grand or more on a car

The cachet that comes from the brand

It matters to a lot of people

I could give a rat's ass about it because I I'm about the performance. I'm about the engineering about how it looks

I don't really care about the brand. I mean, I've never owned a corvette

So the truth of the matter is this would be that this will be the first corvette

You know, one of my daughters is completely

You know, beside herself in disbelief that you that I'm buying a corvette. She still doesn't believe it's gonna happen

I'm like you watch kid. I'm buying one, you know, and so, you know, the thing is it's it's

You know as enthusiasts, how can you not admire what they've achieved with that car?

You know, the one that's in my backdrop. It's got the asymmetric interior too, which I just think is so cool

You know Ferrari have done that

Lotus are doing that on on the amirah as well. So

Anyways, I love it. I think it's a great value and again, I don't want to

It's almost funny. I'm holding myself back for giving such praise to it

Because so many people will pigeonhole us being corvette people

I don't know what a corvette person is

But I know when I hear somebody saying a corvette person

I know I don't like that person and I'm just gonna say it because that person is an elitist snob

Who has a very closed mind about anything other than what they're interested in and they're missing out on a whole do

Whole new paradigm that I think has happened because of the c8 because I'll I'll even drill down even further

If you look at the build quality on those new c8s, just the paint alone is better than my freaking Ferrari

It's true

you we went to the corvette factory last summer and the pride of all the

For example, did you guys know that the corvette guy started with uh, I don't remember his name

Started with Porsche. He was racing Porsche 550s in the 1950s. Did you know that there was yeah

And the whole thing it's but if you look at the build quality of those cars

It's not that different for some from an exotic and and I don't get why people can't get past their

You know their egos and see them for what they are an absolutely brilliant game-changing car

What are you thinking Blair? Have we talked you into a corvette yet?

Well, what I what I'm thinking is why do we do the things that we do? Yes, ego matters

But why do I keep buying e46 m3s? There's some sentimental factor going on there and and when I

that the first loves and that emotion for me

Tends to steer more german honestly, but

The other thing I'm thinking about is okay. What's a Carrera s cost?

It has to be

Just like a well option t has to be 180 to 200 thousand dollars

And you can't get that car in a manual transmission

So if you're asking me if I can't have a gt3 in a manual

And I have a hard time buying a t in a Carrera t in a manual

What I rather have a

Corvette 06 for 125

Or a 992 Carrera s for 200 grand

I'm a Corvette guy at that point. I 100%

Well, what does that mean? What is the core that I buy the 06?

I would buy it if all else is equal now. She knew said it's not happening

And they are not going to put a manual in a c8 Corvette

I've heard rumors to the contrary and if they're going to potentially

Make a 6.7 liter motor at a unique motor just for the grand sport

That why couldn't they put a manual transmission in this thing now again? She knew uh

He from an engineering kind of development standpoint. He disagrees, but if they do that

Now suddenly well, hold on hold on

You're blasting your mic out a little bit four fingers and she knew why couldn't they put a manual transmission in that?

They developed one didn't the Tremac develop a manual that works in c8s

Well, I think that was like an aftermarket type development by Tremac

I don't think the fact who you know, I don't think Chevy was involved in that the corvette team

I could be wrong, but look here's the problem every variant of powertrain that you come up with you know from engine to

Transmission has to be emissions tested. So the cost to do that is significant and

You know, most people know that the manual option does not get ticked by too many people

And I think there's a reason why the corvette is a great value is because they make a lot of them

Okay, and they they they you have to make

Yeah, have some reasonable volume in order to amortize the cost and keep her keep your retail price low

So yeah, I mean I think I can't imagine a six speed is going to make its way into this car as much as I'd love to see that

I don't think it's going to happen

So when you look at for example where I'm have behind me in my image there

You're looking at a you know, obviously a c8 zero six and that car

You can basically get for 225. I think that's a zr1. Oh, I'm sorry zr1. Yeah, you're right

Okay, this car which julie and I bought in 2008 and 19 that car now is it's a

a

Pista those things are now in the mid 500s on up

Okay, this this car is 720 horsepower. I mean we can compare horsepower and all the rest of the corvette's going to win

I just don't think from a driving perspective truthfully. I don't think that the piece is worth the difference in price

It's not worth twice as much and even if it were the market says it is and says I'm wrong

It's too precious to have any fun with and that's the reason we always go back to these inexpensive relatively speaking lightweight cars

Because you go out and have fun with them. That's the reason I think frankly

Your drive around car around the country of the zero six is a hundred percent what I would do too if we're just julie and I

It's a home run car. All right. Let's go back and vote. Okay, so we each had our suggestions of what we would choose

So a hundred percent blairs getting my vote is he's going to get the 355 for not listening to instructions and

Have breakdowns constantly. So I want to eat 36 m3 too. So yes

Okay, well, that's true, but I want the two car combo

So what about I'll buy you the triple a membership that you're going to need

I've heard those are terrible by the way. So yeah

That's why you need an e36 to go with it

Yeah, exactly. I bought an e36 m3 new. So I love that car. Yeah, we did too. What year was yours?

A 99 ours was a 97. It was a four door cosmos. Uh gray with that orangey interior

Oh my god, that's wild. Yeah, mine was docker yellow two the the light light yellow two

How old are you shaneu?

58. Oh that explains it

Yeah, that's really like you're 48. That's really that's the reason blairs and stout's about the things that you and I basically

Because he's just a little bit younger than us

That's right. So they're old cars to him. Yeah, exactly

All right, so I guess I'll take the punishment next if yet you guys had to choose the car for me

What would be of my two choices?

Yeah, and and you're to say it again what they were tim. Uh, I'm having check my notes four or five eight spider and a

And a 17 rs. He's gonna get me back, isn't he? Yeah, so if I

four five eight spider or the spider or the uh, the spider rs of two spiders

Well, I I've got two problems. If it were my car, it'd be different

But you said wife has to go with you. Yep. And um,

Well, that that's that's the big problem. Number one

She loves ferrari. She always says why don't you ever consider a ferrari? Those cars are gorgeous and number two

She would 100% get tired of the noise that spider rs makes inside the cabin with the roof up

So I got to go with the four five eight spider for the wife

Yeah, okay. What do you what do you think should do?

Well, look, I'm I'm gonna try to keep you married man

So I I think that the 718 is the right solution for for for marital marital bliss

You know so that you're not broken down on the side of the road, you know on on that cross country trip. So

Porsche gets my vote. Yeah, I think I'm gonna probably well to his point that you have you you've driven a spider rs

Haven't you Blair?

Yes, okay, and he is right with the top up

Holy crap

You're literally inside of a drum and someone's beating on it constantly

Of it is it's torturous, but you take the top down or you move that snap in back window. It's a completely different experience

What was your experience driving that car Blair share it with the listeners and the viewers?

Well, I drove a came in gt4 rs first and then I drove a spider rs and

Yeah, with the top down the spider rs is awesome. I like genuine fan of it. Um

The four rs the thought that kept coming to my mind was also an awesome thought was I cannot believe

Porsche made this I can't believe they had the sense of humor to like and got it through

To make this noise inside the cabin, but I love raucous. I love an aftermarket exhaust

I love loud induction

I think I would get tired of the four rs

So incredible cars both of them, but yeah, I would choose the spider for sure over the

Cayman

Well, can we hover there for a second since we got mr. Lightweight sports car on there

Can you is there a future with these 718 rs variants?

That's that the market is yet to discover

Because they do appear to be somewhat of the last of the breed and they are special cars

But all the criticisms that people have about the 718 spider the 718

GT four rs

I wonder if that's just because of the whole 9 11 thing

Wanting to you know overshadow the 718, but if you take the 718 and isolation and look at it for what it is

I think it's a badass car like truly an incredible car even with all the noise

What do you think you know 100% 100% it's it's dynamically a better car the the architecture is simply better

There's just no arguing about that

You know as as drivers as enthusiasts a middling car is superior period and again

How much faster do you need to go those cars are extremely fast the pace that you can

Maintain with a car like that and a fun twisty road

You don't really need to go much faster. Let me point something out that's really funny too

So when people are saying why the st is so 9 11 st which sells for you know

650 750 it has no rear-wheel steer think about this Blair

So people say all the time an art touring rear-wheel steer and I can tell you it definitely was more precise when you were driving it

And aggressively

But it definitely took away from the overall experience made it feel more synthesized no two ways about it

This the gt4 rs and the spider rs no rear-wheel steer and it gets and it gets criticized for it

What they don't need it exactly

They don't need it because it's it's a superior architecture. The 9 11 is inferior. Let's just be honest

It's a rear engine car and

I'm glad I'm glad it's just not me who's gonna get all the hate after this one should do after

I love 9 11's. Okay. I don't mind a car

That's loose underneath me that understeers going into a corner and oversteers exiting, you know, but the problem is

It's dynamically inferior. So they have to come up with all this crazy

You know

Suspension geometry and rear-wheel steer and other things to correct what is fundamentally wrong with the car, which is the weight bias

Well, what what I will say though is I drove us the Cayman 4 rs back to back with the 992 dot one

uh gt3 in a pdk so the comparable car and

You can't I think part of what I mean came in boxers are always going to get hate because they're not 9 11's

But that car was also developed in 2013 with the first boxster the 981

The interior is identical inside now. That doesn't bother me. I happen to love that

generation Porsche interior the 981 991 718's but

You know, when you jump into the 992 gt3 back to back number one

I did notice a different suspension. I thought it was more compliant

It rode a little better, frankly

And and then they've continued to develop obviously that front end with the double wishbone

It's a sharper car. It changes direction more quickly

And the interior though, I don't like it better feels more modern. They continue to invest into that platform

But those cars without every option checked

Have you ever seen a base base 992 without everything being covered with leather and alcantara?

It's miserable. It just is it plastic

I saw when we were up a car week last year and I couldn't you know, it was cool

It was a real base 9 11 t which I appreciated but it did not feel special

It that those cars do to me the 992 start to feel like outie parts like part sharing

And whereas you're getting a 991 or a 718 981

That feels so Porsche to me and there is nothing like it and

So but but but I do think they've continued to develop the 9 11

They kind of stopped developing the Cayman Boxster, which I already said earlier in the podcast

I think that was a big mistake, but I think that's part of where some of the

You know that that

Love for the 718 runs dry and and it gets some of that criticism, but

Incredible cars and and in fact the time I drove the spider s. I said my wife would get tired of the sound

She was with me and we we took my buddy's car for about 30 minutes

She jumped in the passenger seat and she loved it

But the top was down and it was only 20 30 minutes and I mean what what an incredible machine

So if you have to choose between what he's got up behind him now

Which is you know, again a c8 and a comparable portion the same value for everyday use

Are you still gonna just lean into the Porsche and why?

No, no, if it's a c8 and like a base Carrera or a Carrera s

No, I'm taking the c8 at that point if it's a spider rs. I'm taking the Porsche

What do you think she knew same thing?

I can't argue the spot if I could only have one sports car that I didn't have to take my wife across the country in

The spider would definitely be the car for me. Okay, so I got good news for you guys

My wife's a stud and she would have actually chosen the spider rs

That's so awesome. She is. Yeah, exactly now now chenuz this or that he chose the gt3 touring

or the amirah v6

And where I chose the Ferrari in your scenario

Tim, I would absolutely choose a gt3 touring with a manual

My wife would love it. I would love it and I'm considering buying an amirah v6. So I love that car, but

I'll tell you I'll tell you why that's the wrong answer. You ready?

I had one

I had one and let me tell you that is a loud f in car

And on the inside people will say you had the wrong tires on it. Maybe that's true

But the amount of noise and the back of a touring without back seats is

extraordinary

And you it the the noise doesn't have a way to escape and the you got to remember how that car is designed

It's the it's not the engine noise what you want to hear in arguably the exhaust noise

It's the freaking wheels the tires on the back. It's so loud

So and if you look at the price difference between the amirah and the gt3

992 touring right if you look at the price difference

I'm going to say it. Oh for the trip across the country. I'm taking the lotus

I I thought this was a money no object

So I actually didn't have to come up with that additional 150 k between the lotus and the gt3

So yeah, if if we care about money, then yeah, that that becomes a lot easier. It's an incredible value

Given how expensive these these Porsches have become

Cool. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. All right. You guys have any other thoughts any other

Comments or things to come to mind? Are we going to focus on lotus next week? I think

Yeah, that would be great. That would be great

And and maybe that picture you've got maybe Porsche is going to have a 550, you know

Tribute coming for us. I mean, you know what? I think I think what you said actually makes all kinds of sense to me

And if I were Porsche, that's what I would do

I would start coming out with

Things that completely hit hard reset and get back to the core DNA of the manufacturer

And I would go back and on a bended knee

I would earn the love back from all my best customers

Before that all my customers start becoming basically flex buyers because if they all become flex buyers

Then I'm going to have to start competing with

You know, frankly brands that are going to be they're already ubiquitous

You can't win by chasing horsepower anymore

You can't win by chasing instagram followers anymore because those people are thick as hell

You're going to have to go back and produce real engineering masterpieces and I hope and I pray that's what our beloved brand Porsche does

If not, guess what you knew you in your analog car ethos is going to rule the day

I don't know if you guys have been reading the articles that I've been pumping out for the uh, you know the newsletter

And if you're not subscribed, it's full throttle talk dot com

But is there's a really good reason to believe that analog cars are going to be the ultimate

I don't even know what you want to call it desirable sports car in the future as all these other cars sort of become the same

And I'm I'm excited to hear about what we're going to talk about next week as far as the whole lotus thing goes

Because there's so much detail and so much depth. I'll help you create that content

If you want to delegate some of it to me because I know there's a lot

The well that sounds good good to me because I can ratchet my uh my intensity down a little bit

Next week if we're not no man, listen

I've been doing podcasts for a long time Blair and I'd rather have someone that's bouncing off their mic

And high levels of energy enthusiasm versus someone has to pump themselves up with caffeine all the time and be

Prompted to basically wake up. I would much rather have high levels of energy enthusiasm

I've had the opposite many times and trust me. You're perfect. So you got well, thanks

I just want great cars and it's so frustrating what we talked about today that

They they you know, they they seem to be fleeting and so yeah, you're right

We're all going to be turning to what you have behind you

We're all going to be calling shaneu and saying hey help me modify my lotus help me

You know, I I want a resto mod because sorry

Porsche could have had me for life and yet they've left me behind and by the way, so is bmw

But they just make daily drivers that

You know, they they're still kind of nailing that if you want comfort and luxury and why have we never talked about mclaren

McLaren seems like it would be the perfect brand for all of us. It's just because we have mclaren fear

Yeah, I mean mclaren. I mean there's a number of things there

But we we need to do an episode on mclaren because I think it would be worthwhile

It it really because their cars are closer to being analog than many of the other, you know

luxury brands and so

Yeah, listen guys, we have been spoiled these last

25 30 years we've had an unprecedented selection of really cool cars

So I think we're gonna have a lot of really fun things to talk about for sure

So this is this has been a fun fun fun pod for sure me too. I love it

You guys have a fantastic week and remember

Your homework from today's full throttle talk is to subscribe to the newsletter full throttle talk calm

And also if you're over on youtube and you're watching us on youtube

Um, do obviously subscribe and if you're listening to us and spotify our itunes

We'd really love it if you give us a five star review. Listen four star review

Thank you, but let's go with five star and give us a piffy comment what you liked about today's show

Look guys, we are car enthusiasts. We're not chasing. We're not chasing one particular brand

We are trying to get at the essence of why we love cars

And hopefully you're enjoying the journey because you're probably on the same show drawing yourself in the meantime

You guys have a fantastic week and I'll talk with you on the show next week. See you guys later. See you guys. Yeah

Ferrari Breaks the Rules Again, ZR1X Performance Shock, and Has Porsche Lost Its Way?

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