Ford's recent $19.5 billion write-down signals a significant shift in its electric vehicle strategy, moving away from unprofitable models like the F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E. The discussion highlights CEO Jim Farley's insights on future hybrid models and the potential return to traditional combustion engines. Meanwhile, Hannah shares her experience driving the new Ferrari Amalfi in Portugal, noting its improved tactile controls and luxurious performance. The episode dives into the evolving automotive landscape, comparing Ford's strategy with GM's and exploring the latest trends in high-performance vehicles.
We dive into the news that Ford is planning a sweeping overhaul of its electric vehicle business, canceling a planned electric F-Series truck among other moves. Plus Hannah got behind the wheel of the new Ferrari Amalfi and rubbed shoulders with some company bigwigs during her recent trip to Portugal. She came back with stories!
"I'm going to tell you about the Ferrari I drove this week in Portugal. It's the Ferrari Amalfi."
Ferrari Amalfi is a special, very fast car made by the famous Italian maker Ferrari. It has a powerful engine and can reach speeds over 200 miles per hour.
The Ferrari Amalfi is a limited‑edition, high‑performance sports car produced by Ferrari. It features a 4.0‑liter twin‑turbine V8 engine, producing around 650 horsepower and a top speed near 205 mph.
"And yeah, the Ford F-150 Lightning is their biggest money loser, the pickup truck, that's all electric."
The F‑150 Lightning is a pickup truck that runs only on electricity instead of gasoline. It has big batteries and electric motors so it can still haul cargo but without producing exhaust.
The Ford F‑150 Lightning is the all‑electric version of Ford’s best‑selling pickup truck. It uses a large battery pack and electric motors to replace the traditional gasoline engine, aiming to combine utility with zero‑emission power.
"One of my favorite vehicles I've ever owned, my F-150 Raptor, I picked up at the Rouge, at the truck plant in Dearborn."
The F‑150 Raptor is a special version of Ford’s popular pickup truck that’s made for off‑road adventures. It has a big engine and stronger parts so it can go over rough ground better than a regular truck.
The Ford F-150 Raptor is a high‑performance off‑road pickup truck built on the F‑Series platform. It features a powerful V8 engine, upgraded suspension, and aggressive styling for extreme terrain handling.
"As you know, because Jim Farley's been on this podcast before, he's very excited about e-revs, which is a battery-powered vehicle with an onboard gas generator, essentially."
e-revs is a way to make cars feel like they have both electric and gasoline power. The car uses an electric motor for quick starts, and a small gas engine keeps it going when the battery runs low.
e-revs refers to a hybrid powertrain that combines an electric motor with a small onboard gasoline generator. The electric motor provides instant torque, while the generator supplies power when needed, allowing for seamless acceleration without plugging in.
"a battery-powered vehicle with an onboard gas generator, essentially."
It’s a car that runs mostly on electricity but has a little gas engine to keep the battery charged if you run out of power. That way you don’t have to find a charging station.
This describes a plug‑in hybrid or range‑extended electric vehicle (REEV) that uses an electric motor for propulsion and a small gasoline engine to generate electricity when the battery depletes. It eliminates range anxiety while keeping emissions low.
"they want this new truck, but it's all aluminum, right? The aluminum body."
Some trucks use aluminum for their outer shell instead of steel. Aluminum is lighter, so the truck can be more fuel‑efficient, but fixing dents can cost more.
An aluminum body refers to the outer panels and frame of a vehicle made from aluminum alloy instead of traditional steel. Aluminum is lighter, which improves fuel efficiency and handling, but it can be more expensive to repair after damage.
"We know Ford's gonna be jumping into F1 in 2026, not as a full team, but they're going to be supplying engines."
F1 engines are the super-fast, very special cars that race in Formula 1. They use fancy technology to make a lot of power while staying within the rules.
F1 engines are high-performance, highly regulated power units used in Formula 1 racing. They combine advanced materials and hybrid technology to deliver extreme power while meeting strict fuel and emissions rules.
"But Ford, if I recall, Farley has talked about potentially doing a partnership with Waymo."
Waymo is a company that builds self‑driving cars. They work with car makers to test and improve the technology.
Waymo is a subsidiary of Alphabet (Google’s parent company) that develops autonomous vehicle technology and has partnered with several automakers to test self‑driving cars.
A robo taxi fleet is a bunch of driverless cars that people can hail like a regular taxi, but the car runs itself.
A robo taxi fleet is a group of autonomous vehicles operated as shared taxis, often deployed by companies to provide on‑demand transportation without drivers.
"The lightning, well now it's canceled, but had the lightning and the Mustang Machee."
It’s a fully electric truck from Ford that was meant to be a big‑box pickup but has been cancelled. It had a powerful battery and fast charging, but it never reached production.
The Ford Lightning is an all‑electric version of the Ford F‑150 pickup, designed to compete with other electric trucks like the Rivian R1T and Tesla Cybertruck.
Car
GM Equinox Electric
"Whereas general motors has the equinox's electric."
It’s an electric SUV from GM that replaces the gas‑powered Equinox. It can travel a decent distance on one charge, good for everyday use.
The GM Equinox Electric is the all‑electric version of General Motors’ popular midsize SUV, offering a modest range suitable for city driving and short commutes.
"This is the two plus two basically grand tour that Ferrari makes. The starting price is $262,000."
A "two plus two" car is a big sports car that can seat four people, not just two. It’s built for long trips with speed and comfort.
A "two plus two" grand tourer refers to a luxury sports car that seats four people (two front, two rear) while delivering high performance and comfort for long drives.
"[1301.5s] And we fixed that mistake by bringing back an actual start button, an actual tangible."
The start button is a little switch on the steering wheel that you press to turn the car on.
A start button is a physical control on the steering wheel that initiates the vehicle's engine and electronic systems, replacing touch-screen inputs for safety and convenience.
"[1408.5s] But it's it's not going to it's not the Ferrari you take to the track.
[1411.5s] It's not even a two nine six."
Ferrari 296 is a fancy car from the famous Italian maker Ferrari. It’s powerful and can go fast on roads or racetracks, but it isn’t the kind of Ferrari that’s only meant for racing.
The Ferrari 296 GTB is a high‑performance hybrid sports car that blends a V6 turbo engine with an electric motor to produce over 650 horsepower. It’s designed for both street use and track performance, but it’s not the most aggressive or “track‑only” Ferrari models.
"Think about when we talk about even that Mercedes-AMG GT."
The AMG GT is a fast, German-made car that looks sporty and can go very quickly.
The Mercedes-AMG GT is a high-performance sports coupe produced by the AMG division of Mercedes-Benz, featuring powerful engines and aggressive styling.
"I asked, is there a heads up display in this vehicle?"
A heads-up display shows important car info on a screen in front of you so you don't have to look down.
A heads-up display (HUD) projects information onto the windshield or a screen in front of the driver, allowing them to see data without looking away from the road.
"[2638.5s] Except for you did also think it was Burmester.
[2642.5s] No, I thought it was Burmester.
[2646.5s] It's Burmester."
Burmester makes fancy speakers and sound gear that people put in luxury cars or home theaters to get really good music quality.
Burmester is a German manufacturer known for high‑end audio components such as speakers, amplifiers, and sound systems used in premium cars and home installations.
Select text to request an explanation
On eBay, every find has a story, like if you're looking for a vintage band T, not just a T, V band T, from the last show your favorite band ever played. You wore it everywhere, then your BFF started glaring in, which is cute until they unfriended you and took it with them, which was not so cute. Anyway, now you're on eBay, and there it is, same T from the same tour, still living in your memory, rent free forever.
See, the things you love have a way of finding their way back to you, but eBay isn't just for getting whatever your XBFF stole back. It's also for that rare championship foul ball you caught, then heroically gave to the kid next to you.
And where else are you going to find your first car? The one you wish you never sold, but now you finally get the chance to take back home. For good this time.
Shop eBay for millions of fines, each with a story. eBay, things people love.
Bloomberg Audio Studios.
Podcasts, radio, news.
I'm Hannah Elliott.
And I'm Matt Miller. This is Hot for Soup.
Coming up on today's podcast, I'm going to tell you about the Ferrari I drove this week in Portugal. It's the Ferrari Amalfi.
But first, we talk about Ford's $19.5 billion right down in a pivot away from EVs. And this Hannah was an absolutely massive story as you can imagine this week.
And it says a lot about not just what's going on at Ford, but what's going on in the Western hemisphere, really, or in the Northern hemisphere, because we've had the US and now the EU pull back from stricter car regulations.
Yeah, and I think you had Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford on your show, that's an amazing get. And basically the news is that Ford's going to take what a $20 million hit.
$20 billion.
Sorry, $20 billion to not make the EVs that it had struggled to make profitable.
Yeah, exactly.
Is that encapsulated basically?
I mean, there's a lot. It's a multifaceted story. So as everyone knows, Ford has been losing billions on EVs already.
Like the first year, it was a couple billion, and then it was four billion, and then it was five billion.
And yeah, the Ford F-150 Lightning is their biggest money loser, the pickup truck, that's all electric.
But they lose money on the Mach E, the Mustang Mach E, as well, everyone they sell.
So they've taken this huge write down to cover a battery business that they were working on with SK1 in Kentucky.
And the big new plant, Blue Oval City that they built in Tennessee for their next generation pickup truck, the T3, that's the internal code name pickup truck.
And I was, I have to say, I was pretty excited for the next generation pickup truck.
Jim Farley once said it's going to be like the Millennium Falcon with a back porch on it.
I don't, I'm speechless. I don't even know what that means. I mean, that's kind of mind blowing.
Yeah, I mean, I thought it was very, very cool. I don't know what that means either.
It's descriptive, but also not descriptive.
I want a Millennium Falcon with a back porch on it, and whatever. It just sounded so cool.
Yeah, it sounds like it's from spinal tap.
Yeah, so initially when I heard this news, I was, I was bummed out because I thought...
Because you liked the lightning, right?
Well, I liked the lightning, and yeah, I love the Ford Motor Company.
I've been covering them for decades.
One of my favorite vehicles I've ever owned, my F-150 Raptor, I picked up at the Rouge, at the truck plant in Dearborn.
That's cool.
And I got the keys from Alan Mulally and Bill Ford, who drove it out to me.
Wow.
So I care a lot, and I always want to see, hear about and see new products.
So I was bummed at first, but then I started thinking, what are they going to make at Blue Oval City in Tennessee?
And the company hasn't been too clear. They never want to tell me all that they know about new products.
And I'm not sure they know exactly what it's going to be either, but they did say that they're going to build another truck there.
But not the same truck as the F-150.
Yeah, so a completely new platform.
I mean, the sky's the limit as far as my imagination is concerned, right?
We know that. We know that to be true.
It's going to be a gas-powered truck.
It's going to be a combustion engine.
Now, it could have, it could be some sort of hybrid.
They could put a battery somewhere in there.
Yeah, I see that their plan is not pivoting away from hybrids.
Yeah, I mean, they're not going to throw out the baby with the bath water.
No, and they still, they'll still probably, they'll still make EVs for sure.
They may even still make 100% battery electric vehicles.
Like maybe they'll still make the Mustang Mach E, right?
But most of their power trains will be, will shift towards hybrids and e-revs.
As you know, because Jim Farley's been on this podcast before, he's very excited about e-revs, which is
a battery-powered vehicle with an onboard gas generator, essentially.
Yeah, and there are performance applications for that, for sure.
It basically helps make acceleration more seamless.
Yeah, like in the e-re.
Exactly, a straight line of torque.
It's great, and also, you don't have to plug in if you don't want to.
Right, and the Porsche that you drove, I've actually driven it to the GTS, right?
Like in electric part of the turbocharger.
Yeah, and you can't really tell when it's switching between the electric power
and the internal combustion, you know, it's very seamless.
Yeah, so it can be awesome, basically, as the bottom line for hybrids.
And, you know, e-revs, I know Jim is super excited about that,
but I started thinking about the fact that they could go back to basics in some ways with their trucks.
Now, I looked at the F-150, or the F-series itself, has been made since 1948.
That's amazing.
And yes, and in terms of brand awareness, I have to think that an F-series pickup truck
is up there with Coca-Cola and Levi's.
I think it is.
It is absolute.
Yes.
Yes.
But the F-150 has only been around since 1975,
because they used to have like the F-123, and then they had the F-100, the F-
Sure.
So, I mean, it's just like it is trucks,
but it would be cool if they made something that was back to basics,
because I know a lot of small businesses or contractors, you know,
they want this new truck, but it's all aluminum, right?
The aluminum body.
And if it breaks...
Why do they want that for lightweight?
No, no, no, no.
I mean, Ford sells the truck.
It's an aluminum body.
They all are aluminum body.
Okay.
So, they're saying, keep it.
Keep it.
We don't want to lose that.
Well, Ford is still going to keep that.
Okay.
They'll make that at Kansas City.
They'll make that at Dearborn.
They'll make that where they make the F-150.
But contractors and small businesses, when they go to repair a body panel that's aluminum,
they realize, oh, this is very expensive.
And shops are like, we don't have the expertise or the gear to do that.
And Ford has had trouble with its aluminum plant, right?
They had that huge fire that's caused, like, billions, essentially.
And so, I was like, man, maybe they go back to an all-steel, to a steel-bodied truck.
Okay.
I think that would just be so cool.
It's retro, you know?
It's tar core.
It's spilled forward top.
It's ultra heavy.
Yeah, but ultra heavy.
True.
Right?
But they all were before, like, whatever this generation was announced in, like, 2015, right?
Before that, they were steel-bodied trucks.
So, you don't have to go back that far.
And then, they're much easier to repair.
You could repair it yourself.
You know, you and Magnus could put, like, louvers in the hood or do whatever you want to do to it.
I mean, you should see what my dad did to his F-150.
I want to say it was a, it was probably late 70s, maybe a 79, F-150.
I love that.
He did a lot of crazy things too.
Yeah, but you can, you know, your house.
You could weld your panels together, you know?
For better or worse.
And then, then I started thinking, what if they bring back, like, the 6.2 liter V8, the one that was in the first generation Raptors?
You know, I mean, it wasn't...
It's gonna ask about that, not to cut you off.
But where does the whole off-roading segment fall into play here?
Because we know Jim Farley loves a race.
Yeah.
And we know he wants to go for some off-roading titles.
We know Ford's gonna be jumping into F1 in 2026, not as a full team, but they're going to be supplying engines.
I mean, it's a great question.
So how does that all figure into it?
I'm not sure how much that figures into this specific announcement.
And by the way, I haven't even gotten to probably the most interesting part for most people, the most interesting part for Wall Street.
But on off-road, I don't know, because you want the lightness of aluminum, right?
Yeah.
But if you're in the car, like, you probably want to be able to repair it yourself in the desert.
And I admit, I do not know the ins and outs of this, of this rabbit trail we're on to know.
I don't know either, and I don't think we're gonna find out what they're gonna make there for you.
But it's really, I would definitely say just this conversation alone makes Ford really an interesting company to watch for 2026.
Yeah, for sure.
And the most interesting thing in terms of an investor, or in terms of just an onlooker who's watching this business,
is they're gonna turn those battery plants in Kentucky that were a JV.
They're taking them over 100%.
And instead of making batteries for cars there, they're gonna be making essentially power walls.
Okay.
Or energy storage products for data centers.
Oh.
Which I think is like mind blowing.
Like, on the one hand, it's like, of course, you know, data centers are gonna need a lot of those.
And we're gonna be searching high and low for energy.
And it reminded me of COVID in a little bit.
Like, when you have these natural, or when you have these national disasters, I should say,
or these national times of need.
And you've got a boost production of, I don't know, you know, airplane gas tanks or protective gear.
Carmakers spring into action and help out.
They have these resources.
They know what they're doing.
And they can produce a ton of masks or a ton of belly tanks.
And right now, we need energy storage products.
We need big batteries for data centers.
And now this carmaker, at least, is spring into action.
And there's so much more demand than there is supply.
So it's gonna clearly do well in this business.
And it strikes me as on the one hand, obvious.
And on the other hand, genius.
Yeah.
It'll be interesting.
And this is maybe peripherally related.
But Ford, if I recall, Farley has talked about potentially doing a partnership with Waymo.
To further develop self-driving with a partnership with Waymo.
Not their own robo taxi fleet.
That idea was canceled at Ford.
But to work on some of that technology in a partnership with Waymo is also interesting.
It is.
There's so much.
Yeah, Ford had Argo AI, right?
Yeah.
Which was canceled.
But it doesn't mean they've stopped developing some of that technology.
Yeah.
For sure.
So there's just so much going on.
Here's a question for you.
How do you think Ford has positioned versus general motors when they seem to be taking slightly different strategies here, going into 2026?
It's a really good question.
And it was also one of my first thoughts.
Because Ford has been losing multiple billions of dollars every year on its EV push.
And GM has only been losing $2 billion a year.
Oh, that's good news on the dollar.
Ford has only a couple of products out in electric.
The lightning, well now it's canceled, but had the lightning and the Mustang Machee.
Whereas general motors has the equinox's electric.
The blazer is electric.
Cadillac, they have a couple that are electric.
It's elastic.
Yeah.
And the Lyric.
And they have an electric SUV.
And they have the big electric SUV, the SQIQ.
The SQIQ.
Sure.
Which I really liked.
I don't think you liked it.
I didn't love it that much, but I love the GMC Sierra EV, the Chevy Silverado EV.
Yeah, they've got a lot.
The Hummer EV.
Wow, they do have a ton.
When you start listing them, then you realize, oh, there's...
Those are all 100% battery electric vehicles.
There's no gas engines.
And they've...
I think they've done pretty well with the sale of much of that product, although,
of course, they're losing money on them as well.
But...
And I'm just looking at this piece that you recommended from our colleague Craig Trudeau.
And in the piece, GMCEO Mary Barris says EVs remain our north star.
So they're kind of doubling down.
It's almost the opposite of what Ford is doing.
Yeah, it'll be so fascinating to watch this rivalry as it goes ahead.
And...
I mean, they've always been different companies in a sense, but obviously two...
The two biggest American car makers going head to head in Detroit.
So I mean, I just think what an incredible news week for car makers.
Totally.
And you were, by the way, you have a piece out on Ford as well.
On the expedition, we all remember when you were in Texas,
and you got that big belt buckle, the trucks.
The truckle.
And the truckle that holds a key.
So you've got the story out.
What do you...
So the story is finally out.
Yes.
And I have to tell you, it's not strictly a car piece.
It's actually a travel story about Texas.
And how Texas is sort of a prism right now for America at large
with all its complexities and contradictions and history.
So I recommend you read the story.
And the Ford Expedition King Ranch does get a mention in the story
because that is what I drove on this long winding road trip through Texas.
And it felt pretty perfect.
And I started seeing like dozens of expedition King Ranches on the road.
So it felt like the perfect home for that.
Actually, ever since you wrote it, I've been looking around and I see them all over the place too.
Yes, wild.
And I actually asked Jim Farley when he was on.
If we were going to see a comeback for the big American naturally aspirated V8.
And he was pretty clear to say, like, listen, we still want to do what's right for the planet.
We're not looking to overly pollute.
Okay.
But he didn't say no.
So...
It's not no.
I feel like the expedition is like the perfect platform for the 6.2.
It works great.
I mean, that is so, so big.
So big.
And I mean, yes, they have a lot of power in the twin turbocharged V6 that they have.
Now, but anyhow.
Anyhow.
Anyhow.
I look forward to reading your story.
I look forward to hearing what you have to say about the Ferrari Amalfi.
Because it is the successor to the Roma that I've drooled so much over recently.
And I think it's also a departure from the days of the California in that it's a much better vehicle.
But I don't know.
We'll hear about it on the other side of this break.
Hannah went to Portugal to drive a Ferrari.
Stay with us for more of this is how to pursue it.
On eBay, every find has a story.
Like, if you're looking for a vintage band T.
Not just a T, the band T.
You ward everywhere.
Until your BFF stole it.
Now you're on eBay.
And there it is.
Same T from the same tour.
The things you love have a way of finding their way back to you.
Especially on eBay.
Where else can you find that mint trading card you searched everywhere for?
Or your first car.
The one you wish to never solve.
It has to be eBay.
Shop eBay for millions of fines.
Each with a story.
eBay.
Things people love.
Welcome back to Hot Pursuit.
I'm Matt Miller here with Hannah Elliott and, uh, Hannah.
Do you feel that someone's listening to you all the time?
I feel like, uh, yeah, big brothers listening or, you know, big Jim Farley.
When we were having a conversation in the last segment, I literally, I didn't,
I'm not reading my emails, but I did see one pop up and it, the name on it was Jim Farley.
And I was like, wait, what?
Can you hear us?
Uh, it was, it was, it was an email from the real Jim Farley, uh, wishing.
Just randomly the CEO for just randomly.
I'm sure I'm sure for sure.
I'm the only one that got this email.
I, uh, no, I got it too.
And what?
I thought I was the only one that's, uh, he's pretty funny.
He's the best.
It's pretty, it's pretty good.
He's, it's his holiday greeting card.
By the way, unrelated to cars or Jim Farley, um, but today was the ECB press conference.
So we're recording this on a Thursday.
We put it out on a Friday.
That's our normal, um, uh, M O.
Uh, today was the ECB press conference.
And at the end, Christine Lagarde wrapped it up by saying Mary Christmas.
And then I, I feel like she caught herself and she didn't want to be excluding anyone.
So she said, or happy holidays.
And then she kind of stumbled for a second and said, or whatever is most convenient.
Which doesn't make any sense at all.
But I think she, maybe she couldn't think of the word Hanukkah or like Kwanza or whatever.
Yeah, or anything.
And then across Wall Street, like guys were messaging me and they were like, Hey, dude, Mary Christmas or happy holidays or whatever's convenient, you know, whatever's most convenient to you.
I love it.
It spawned a thousand memes already.
All right.
Let's get to that Ferrari because you got to go to Portugal and I'll remind everyone I haven't driven a Ferrari since I think
2016 or maybe even 15 when I was lucky enough to drive the FF for a week.
That very same FF.
Yeah, no, it was amazing.
And by the way, the very same car, the next week Fernando Alonzo was driving it around Austin, Texas.
Sick.
So I, my butt was in the same place that Fernando Alonzo's butt eventually was.
Wow.
But I haven't driven one since.
So I watched him afar.
And one of my favorite, in fact, I would say since then, right, since the F12, I guess, my favorite Ferrari is the lowly Roma, the entry level.
Oh, I love the Roma.
I think it's so gorgeous.
And it's like, can do everything I need a car to do.
And this is what you drove is like the successor to it.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
I'm totally with you on the Roma.
I think that it doesn't get enough respect, but I love the Roma when it came out in 2019.
And the, the Amalfi is the successor.
This is the two plus two basically grand tour that Ferrari makes.
The starting price is $262,000.
It's probably at the moment the most affordable Ferrari that you can buy new.
It's twin turbo V8.
It's got 600 and just over 630 horsepower, 8 speed dual clutch transmissions, 0 to 62 and 3.3 seconds.
The headline on the story though, is that it brings back tactile buttons to the steering wheel.
And this is a big deal because the one gripe with the Roma was that the steering wheel had little haptic screens to even start the car.
Wait, it screams on the steering wheel?
Yes, yes.
Like you just had to know where to push and then it would light up and then it would start the car.
It was everybody hated it.
It's going to be a car with the screens.
And that was on the left.
And then on the right thumb, there was this other little screen pad that you would use your right thumb to like control the screen in front of the steering wheel.
To try to control it basically everything else in the car.
It was really a bad idea and it was awkward and uncomfortable to use.
So the headline on the Amalfi is Ferrari.
And they actually use the word they made a mistake.
They said literally in Portugal, we made a mistake.
And so we fixed that mistake by bringing back an actual start button, an actual tangible.
Tangible button on the steering wheel to control audio and navigation and windshield wipers.
And so that is it seems small, but it's a big deal.
And I do think it's a big deal for an automotive company.
And we've seen this a couple times to say, oops, sorry, we actually are going to listen to our customers.
And we're going to take one step back to go two steps forward basically.
So that's big.
The other thing that I don't know how you're going to feel about this, I have mixed emotions.
Actually, I think I know how I feel.
So you know how the Roma nose is like that really beautiful lattice grill.
It's like a shark nose and it looks like the old Ferrari's from like the 60s.
So they've done away with that in the Amalfi.
And now the front is like more of a modern car.
It doesn't have that beautiful nostalgic grill.
I mean, I'll have to go.
And I miss, I miss the Rome miss.
I do think the Amalfi looks really good.
A couple of other changes on the Amalfi from the Roma are the fronts different.
You can just look at it and see it's it's very different.
The rear tail lights are a lot thinner there in this black band that goes around the rear of the car.
There is active arrow on the back now with three different stages based on how fast you're going.
I don't know about that.
Do you need active arrow on a car that you're supposed to just like go out to dinner in and maybe like commute to work in?
I don't know.
Is that a track beast?
No, no, no, no.
It's not a track.
You can take it on the track.
Of course, the guys in Portugal were very specific about you can't.
This car is suited for the track.
You can take it on the track.
But it's it's not going to it's not the Ferrari you take to the track.
It's not even a two nine six.
This is something that you go for a beautiful drive.
There are two back seats that will fit children or you know some luggage.
Infants.
Infants basically.
And it does it drives so beautifully.
It's just like beautiful silk.
It's like just wrapping yourself in a silk sheet and rolling around.
How much does it cost?
What's the entry price for this?
$262,000 is starting starting US price.
$262,000 is yet.
That's right.
But think about when we talk about Aston Martin's.
Think about when we talk about a couple of the higher-end Porsche 911s.
Think about when we talk about even that Mercedes-AMG GT.
Yep.
This is cheaper or the same price as all of those cars.
That's true.
And it's a Ferrari.
I find that very fascinating.
Oh, one other thing I thought that I had about the cabin.
They have a tiny screen in the center.
That is the control screen.
It's a touch screen.
And it's pushed pretty far down and back toward the dashboard.
So it's really not in your face because the idea is you don't want a big screen in your face.
You want like it's an analog experience which I understand.
But it might be too far down and too pushed back because I found that trying to look at the screen
to navigate my route driving these unknown roads and it was rainy.
And then looking back at this road and then looking down to make sure I'm not missing a turn
and then looking back, it was kind of distracting.
And I did actually miss a couple turns.
And I'm going to blame it on the nav.
But why do you have to look at the screen?
Oh, the navigation systems there too.
Now, I've asked Ferrari and they haven't got back to me yet.
I actually emailed them this morning to check.
I asked, is there a heads up display in this vehicle?
Because I couldn't find it in the car that I had.
I don't know if I couldn't find it because there wasn't one or it just was user error and I couldn't find one.
But in front of you or in front of you, in front of the steering wheel, are there gauges or is it a screen there too?
There's a screen there too.
So the only navigation I had was down to my right, sort of tucked under the dashboard on the screen.
Now, the jury is still out because they haven't got back to me.
Right.
And maybe I was missing something.
Well, it was.
I imagine you can put the directions or at least an arrow in what would be the gauge cluster in front of you.
Yeah, I would hope I could did not find that in my testing.
But I've asked so I can report back.
It is a huge step forward that they've gone away from little haptic screens on the steering wheel
and that they're trying to get the screen out of your face in the center console.
And I'll give you a glimpse into the future, Hannah.
When you get older, you start to think, the world's not going the right way.
And I need to tell everybody why it's wrong.
And hopefully I can change the tide a little bit.
And it feels like that's happening right now.
Yeah.
You know, all of these automakers are coming back a little bit like, okay, we went too far with the screens.
They don't need to be, you know, iPad, Giganto size.
And we need to have buttons for functions that use on the regular.
Now, I feel like Ferrari, the Ferrari that I saw on your Instagram post.
And by the way, what's your Instagram?
My Instagram is Hannah Elliott XO.
And that's two of everything on Hannah Elliott.
So two ends, two H's, two L's, two T's, XO.
Hannah Elliott XO, I was looking at your Instagram and you showed the steering wheel to layout
and really the whole cockpit interior.
And I thought it's good that they're going back to buttons.
But that's still way too many buttons.
Like there's one for like answering the phone and hanging the phone up.
And there's the cruise control buttons.
And there's the navigating your gauge cluster.
And this is a Ferrari.
So obviously there are turn signals up there.
There's a start stop button.
There's the Manitino.
You've got the volume switch on the back of the steering wheel.
And you've got the track forward and back on the back.
Like there's just too much going on on the steering wheel.
I feel like.
But let me ask you something.
Yeah.
What if you thought that that made it feel more like an F1 car
to have all of the controls on the steering wheel so you never had to move your hands?
I get because I think that's what they're going for.
I mean, but it doesn't because Formula One drivers aren't answering phone calls.
And they're not checking their Instagram and their gauge cluster.
It's a little silly.
I get the turn signals.
I love the thumb turn signals.
And I understand also volume up, volume down.
Plus the start stop button looks very cool there.
It doesn't have to be there.
But it looks very cool there.
And the Manitino also is fine.
It just looked to me like the other buttons that were clearly replacing the little haptic screens.
All of those buttons in my opinion should be not on the steering wheel.
And I don't disagree.
And they also kind of looked like black plasticky cheap.
Yeah.
I don't disagree with you on that.
That's very perceptive.
And yeah, you know, Ferrari has this way of creating some tension between like perfect driving
and this new car has break by wire, which means basically that like the break pressure feels more consistent and balanced.
And yes, that idea was put into my head when I was talking to the engineers about it.
But I also could feel it when I was driving.
So the car drives really beautifully.
And yet there are these like little things that we can quibble about inside.
But somehow that tension could be charming.
Right.
Are we making, are we being too apologetic here?
I, you know, I would love to talk to an engineer or a car maker CEO about, I know why they go to throttle by wire and break by wire and electronics steering it so that you can change all of the settings with your Manitino, right?
Yes.
But why not put out a car that doesn't have any of that?
And I'm, you know, I'm like, I prefer an older 911.
I've gravitated towards a newer one, the 997.
Point one, the first generation of the 997 doesn't have any of that stuff.
You know, it doesn't have even direct injection.
And, but it does have a clunky looking infotainment screen for navigation.
But the first thing I would do if I were to actually buy one of those cars is I would take that out.
They sell a little cubby that you can buy and you pull out that screen and just put in a nothing like the GT3.
Oh yes.
Okay.
Because if you have, if I have a throttle, if I have a clutch, if I have a stick shift, if I have a turn signal stock, if I can operate my windshield wipers, like I would any other car,
I don't need all the crap that's in the infotainment screen.
I just don't need it.
I agree with you.
And I know that Ferrari wants to appeal to some who want the newest and they're the highest tech and they're F1 and all of this.
And that's great.
But why not make a car that is analog?
You know what, you've got to keep up with safety regulations and all of that stuff I understand.
But why would a Ferrari, for example, need a digital screen in front of the steering wheel?
Why not have beautiful, expensive looking analog gauges with little platinum painted needles, you know?
They could do that.
But I would just say also as a brief note, Ferrari does feel pretty analog compared to something like Mercedes, which Mercedes truly is pushing the boundary here with a lot of tech.
Self-driving, Ferrari doesn't have that.
You know, screens that actually work and are beautiful and not obtrusive, Ferrari doesn't have that.
So compared to being in a Mercedes, a new Mercedes, the Ferrari does feel relatively analog to what some other automakers are doing.
And I actually asked them about that and they seem very unbothered.
They are not trying to be the cutting edge infotainment brand.
They're trying to, of course, they need to be competitive and it needs to be good.
But they are not bothered by trying to be the cutting edge of, you know, level three self-driving, for instance.
I'm not sure about this statement, but I'm in a guest.
You can say it anyway.
I would guess that if you look at how many microchips are in a Ferrari versus a Mercedes, you're going to find more in the former than the latter.
In the Ferrari?
In the Ferrari.
Yeah, because this is just, it's kind of a guess based on Chris Harris' 25-minute video of the pure saying, be like, went into detail explaining the suspension at every corner.
And it's basically like they have a super computer at each corner of the vehicle.
And I know why they do that.
And I asked Benedetto Venue about this.
But I just think they could make one car that's for the purists, you know.
And by the way, and Amalfi or the Roma, these are perfect vehicles in which to put a manual transmission, a stick shift with three pedals.
I know we need to break, but I have to tell you this story about a dinner I had.
My literally one night in Portugal, I was on the ground for one single full day, which was the drive day.
And I sat next to Rafael de Simone, who is Ferrari's development driver, and he is an absolute legend.
He actually told me, I'm going to tease the story with this, that in a road car on Ferrari test tracks, he's faster than George Russell for about 5, 6, 7 laps.
And till George learns the track, and then George catches up and beats him.
Well, I just thought that was so cool.
All right, we'll hear that story on the other side of this break.
I'm Matt Miller with Hannah Elliott. This is Hot Pursuit.
On eBay, every find has a story, like if you're looking for a vintage band T, not just a T, the band T, you ward everywhere, until your BFF stole it.
Now you're on eBay, and there it is, same T, from the same tour.
The things you love have a way of finding their way back to you, especially on eBay.
Where else can you find that mint trading card you searched everywhere for?
Or your first car, the one you wish to never solve.
It has to be eBay, shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story.
eBay, things people love.
Welcome back to Hot Pursuit. I'm Matt Miller with Hannah Elliott.
Hannah, you were just about to tell us about sitting down at dinner in Portugal with a Ferrari engineer.
I had literally sat at dinner next to Raphaela Desemone for our development driver.
And he was telling me how Michael Schumacher would always come by through the studio.
George Russell is always coming by. He's talking with all these F1 drivers all the time.
And they are taking cars out and driving them and having fun.
And I said, do any of those guys ever ask for a manual? And he goes, no.
And I go, why not? And he goes, because it's not as fast.
And it wasn't even on their frame of mind.
Obviously, I know there's a lot of other things involved, but I thought that was so interesting.
Because I knew you were going to bring that up, Matt, and I did ask you.
And he just was like, it's not as fast or efficient.
Right. But also, you're talking about Formula One drivers who are maximum 25 years old.
Well, except for Lewis.
Think about Ferrari's clientele.
I know.
I'm sure that Lewis probably has an amazing car collection.
You're right. He's older, so he has more experience.
But most of the people who have the large S to buy these vehicles are, I'm guessing in their 50s, 60s.
They still remember the charm of operating a motor vehicle.
Yes.
And I also know that in terms of what enthusiasts want.
And I keep thinking about this in Porsche's case because they, in order to do well by your customers buying a new car,
you should try and keep up the residual values of your old cars.
Yeah.
If you want a five-year-old Porsche or a 10-year-old Porsche and you need three pedals,
you're going to pay a premium of $10,20, $40,50,000 for the manual version.
If you're willing to take a PDK, which is fast and efficient and undoubtedly,
one of the best clutches you can buy on a road car in the world,
you can get it on the cheap.
So if you really care about, like Ferrari should, I mean Porsche,
sorry, Porsche should demand that customers take the Sport Chrono Plus package.
If you don't take that, it hurts the value on resale.
Porsche should encourage customers to buy the manual transmission because it really helps on resale.
And that just shows that people who truly care about cars,
people who value, who covet these machines, they want that kind of engagement,
not a millisecond quick shift of a paddle.
Maybe I'm just on my side.
I'm applauding.
Yes, that was a beautiful, beautiful.
Actually, on the subject of the 9-11 that I want to someday purchase,
I want an older one and I don't really know which generation do I want the 3.2,
do I want the 964, 993, 997, I'm kind of honed in on that.
But we get a lot of viewer email or listener email supporting that idea
that we do an entire episode dedicated to breaking down older 9-11s.
Should we do that? Should we kick it off?
Yes.
Yeah.
That's a yes.
Yes, we're not starting it at this moment right now,
but you mean like kick off the year.
Yes, sorry.
Should we kick off our year?
Should we do that? Should we kick off the year with that?
I think we should.
I have managed to wrangle Doug Demiro.
Oh yes.
We could always probably get your husband to join us.
Of course.
There's a guy.
Maybe we do a dueling.
In the Pacific Northwest.
Nathan Mertz, who's a specialist.
So we'll get one of those guys out and we'll talk about that.
Doug just had a, yeah, he just had a big purchase, didn't he?
Yeah, he just got that turbo.
No, I mean his company.
Oh, what?
He sold his company?
Uh-huh.
Again?
That's what I hear.
Wow.
Yeah, he did say, when I asked him if he would join us on the podcast,
he's like, yeah, I'm trying actually not to work that much, but.
I don't, yeah, after this latest thing,
I don't think he's going to have to for a minute.
We got certain numbers.
Other emails we got, we got, we got, we always get guest suggestions.
And someone suggested Zach Brown, which is a great idea.
We have had Zach Brown.
We have had Zach.
He's a great guest.
Yeah, he really is.
And by the way, when you talk about Charlie Agapoo,
the guy who works on your, some of your cars.
Yes.
He was a famous race mechanic, right before.
Oh, man.
He was the pit, the pit boss for Ken Miles and Carol Shelby.
Racing at Le Mans in the glory days, that movie Ford versus Ferrari.
There is a guy who's like the Charlie person in that movie.
That's Charles.
That's Charlie.
Yeah, he works on the role's racist.
Well, I thought of it because someone else who wrote in.
And by the way, we encourage emails at hot pursuit.
No, wait, hot pursuit at Bloomberg.net.
Yeah, that's right.
Hot pursuit at Bloomberg.net.
Yeah, that's right.
Hot pursuit at Bloomberg.net.
So John is a longtime listener, first time caller.
No, actually, he's emailed us a bunch in the past.
We talk about outies with him and stuff.
But he was at an event where he ran into a guy called Carl Friedrich,
who apparently was fondue's mechanic.
Oh, that'd be cool.
Like back in the day, and he sent a picture of this guy,
which I thought was very cool.
So I'm always interested in hearing about old-timers
who worked with these pledges.
Totally.
Back in the day.
And I don't think they get enough credit, right?
I mean, being the driver takes some cajonus.
You need some skill and some courage.
But you have to have good mechanics.
You're only as good as your mechanic.
Unbelievably so true.
I mean, to find someone who's honest and capable
and quick is really difficult.
And yeah, I'm seeing this picture that John sent.
Wow, we should.
Cool.
He is a treasure.
John says he's quite the treasure to have still around.
And it's so true.
These guys are really legends.
If any, by the way, I was thinking this the other day,
if I was starting out again, maybe I should be a Rolls-Royce mechanic
because there's a lot of demand.
I think you could have a good career.
It looks like I don't also the picture that John sent.
It looks like Carl Friedrich's mechanic is standing next to Wayne Carini.
Is that Wayne Carini?
I don't know.
I'm pretty sure it is.
That's not my generation.
So I'm not sure.
All right.
Well, Wayne Carini, he's the car restoreer, right?
Chasing classic cars is.
Yeah, I know the name.
Yeah, no, I truly don't.
I only watch reality TV.
All right.
Well, we do love pictures and Don.
He was also a long-time listener.
He's kind of helping me out, giving me advice on where to look in terms of Porsche.
Holding your hand.
And he seems to have an amazing car collection himself.
I was talking about a Ferrari 308.
And I keep seeing them on BAT.
And they don't go for too much more than nice old air-cooled Porsche's.
He says, look, if you want a 308.
But you're worried about how tall you are.
And Don, I think himself is like 64.
Yes.
He says, look at the Mondial.
And I always immediately discount the Mondial because my old boss, way back here at Bloomberg TV,
had a Mondial in Bronxville.
And he was trying to sell it to me all the time.
So I always think if he had one and he wants to sell it to me.
Criminally underloved.
Yeah, I'm looking at the picture of Don's.
It looks nice.
I know.
You know, I have always heard it pronounced Mondial.
Oh, I could be wrong because I always thought it was a Bugatti Shiron.
Is that right?
Shiron or Kairan?
Oh, I say Shiron.
Oh.
Kairan is what goes on the TV screen.
So maybe I was right about...
You're totally right.
Kairan, Shiron.
The Bugatti Shiron.
Kairan.
That is a CNN thing.
You hear Mondial?
Yeah, Mondial.
Interesting.
I'm sure we're going to get a letter about this.
But I've always heard, because I just saw one at the best cars and coffee in L.A.
lately is the one at Griffith Park.
Griffith Park.
It's every last Sunday of the month.
And there was a very cool Mondial there.
And everyone around me was saying Mondial.
Oh, I believe you.
But I'm not correcting you.
I'm just saying, oh, that's interesting.
Except for you did also think it was Burmester.
No, I thought it was Burmester.
Ah, yes.
It's Burmester.
It's Burmester.
It's Burmester.
Burmester.
Did you Google it and then listen to how it's pronounced?
I talked to someone about it.
Also, there's no I.
I know.
Well, I know.
But tomato tabata.
But you're saying it's Burmester.
Yes.
And everything brings me back.
Portia's like my Miata.
Everything brings me back to the Portia.
I don't know.
When people spec...especially like high-end Portia's.
If you're already paying like 140 or 150 for the 9-11 of your dreams.
And it's like a 4s cab or whatever.
Why don't people spec the Burmester, the higher-end stereo?
Everybody spec the Bose.
And then if you're looking at the used, you know, the classified ads, they're like, oh,
it has the high-end Bose stereo system.
But that's not nearly as good as the Burmester.
In fact, it sounds horrible.
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question.
Oh, didn't you say that GM had some also audio news?
Yes.
This is changing a little bit, but you mentioned it to me.
So this is very cool.
GM, of course, I would say either famously or infamously is getting rid of Apple CarPlay
in most of its offerings.
Which is fine because their infotainment system is so good that you don't need Apple CarPlay.
You already have Google Maps and everything else.
But I use Apple Music.
I don't use Spotify.
My wife uses Spotify.
I can't figure it out.
Apple Music to me is the best.
Because as everything I need, it's on demand and it's like, I don't know, $10 a month.
And GM is now putting Apple Music in their own infotainment system.
So if you were like, I don't want to get a GM car because it doesn't have CarPlay and I'm an Apple Music guy or gal.
Yeah.
You a person, that's a great neutral word.
Whatever is convenient.
Now you don't have to worry about that because they have Apple Music.
That's great.
I watched Spinal Tap last night for obvious reasons that it reminds me of the doubly.
Remember the scene where the girlfriend's mispronouncing Dolby?
No.
She's telling them they mix the album wrong but it should have been in doubly.
They're like, you mean Dolby?
But that actually is an important point on GM also.
So they will have Dolby Atmos in the Cadillacs.
And I was trying to see.
Yes, we've reported that.
Which brands you've reported it.
Maybe I didn't notice.
But it's only Mercedes, Audi, Lucid, Polestar, Cadillac, and Rivian.
Those are the only ones that have Dolby Atmos.
Well, you may recall our wonderful guest Tim Pride, who joined us from Dolby,
who is the head of Dolby music.
He still is.
Yes.
Remember him?
Yes, and I remember when you were listening to Atmos, weren't you in a Cadillac?
Yes.
Yes, I was.
And it was one of those things where I went for a test drive.
And then they're like, oh, here comes it in the car.
And we're going to do like this whole, we're going to have a whole presentation about Dolby.
And I was just kind of like, why am I wasting my time doing this?
And I was kind of annoyed.
Then I got in the car with Tim.
And it was awesome.
And he completely changed my mind about it and why it's important.
And all this, he told me all this really cool stuff.
So I get it now because before I was just rolling my eyes thinking this is such like a marketing thing.
I, I'm going to dig a little deeper because I can't wait to hear it.
And I don't think even if I've been in a car that has Dolby Atmos,
I'm not sure if I was paying very close attention.
But next week is, is Christmas and we won't be here, right?
That's right.
We're taking off.
We're going to take off.
We're going to go to ground, go to ground, reenergize.
We've only done this once before where we skip, where we skipped a week.
And I think it was last, it was last Christmas, right?
No, no.
Last year.
It was, I was in Italy this summer, remember?
We, but we recorded with you from Italy.
I, I think we recorded one week and then the next week.
Did you run a, really?
We just picked the greatest hits thing.
Hmm.
Wow.
Time flies.
And, but the good news is we have something now to give to our listeners.
At least, at least one listener, we have a present for you.
Let's see who it was.
I'm looking back in my emails.
We have, yes, clearance.
We have a present for clearance.
We're going to replay the Zach Brown episode.
Yeah.
And, wow.
I think it's timely because of how the season ended.
But Zach Brown's just an interesting guy in general.
Yeah.
But also what?
They won the Constructor's Championship and Lando won the driver's championship, right?
Am I wrong about this?
No, you're right.
You're right.
I don't watch.
Lando, Lando, but you know it was close.
He only won by two points in the end.
It was close.
I'm happy for him.
Yeah, I know him.
More of a MotoGP guy.
Anyway, have a fantastic holiday.
Thank you.
You too.
Season, whatever you celebrate.
Yeah.
I celebrate Christmas.
It's a pretty holiday.
I celebrate festivists for the rest of us.
Check out Hannah's columns and stories on Bloomberg.com.
And the Bloomberg Business app.
Go there for call reviews events and stories that you won't find anywhere else.
Find it all at Bloomberg.com slash pursuits slash autos.
I'm Matt Miller.
And I'm Hannah Elliott.
We'll be back in your podcast feed again next week.
On eBay, every find has a story.
Like, if you're looking for a vintage band T.
Not just a T.
The band T.
From the last show, your favorite band ever played.
You ward everywhere.
Then your BFF started glaring it.
But just cute.
Until they unfriended you and took it with them.
Which was not so cute.
Anyway, now you're on eBay.
And there it is.
Same T.
From the same tour.
Still living in your memory.
Rent free forever.
See?
The things you love have a way of finding their way back to you.
But eBay isn't just forgetting whatever your XBFF stole back.
It's also for that rare championship foul ball you caught.
Then heroically gave to the kid next to you.
And we're also going to find your first car.
The one you wish you never sold.
But now, you finally get the chance to take back home.
For good this time.
Shop eBay for millions of finds.
Each with a story.
eBay.
Things people love.
Request an explanation for:
6 cars
6 cars featured
Request an Explanation
Heard something you'd like explained? We'll add it to this episode.
Sign in to request explanations for terms you heard.
Want to learn more?
Browse our glossary for plain-English explanations of automotive terms, jargon, and concepts.
See something that's not quite right? Our annotations are AI-generated and can sometimes miss the mark.
Click the flag icon on any annotation to suggest a correction.
