Ford's Model T Moment Recap, New Shelby Super Snake, New Camaro EV, Modifications the right way & more

Welcome, everybody.

This is episode 40.

Nick, we're at episode 40, my man.

We are almost to the one-year anniversary,

but I want to get to ahead of ourselves,

because we have really important news this week.

We said last week, everybody, as soon

as you finish Monday's episode, go watch Ford's Model T

moment.

And it was the biggest nothing burger I have ever seen.

And I immediately needed to get your thoughts on it.

But we waited 24 hours.

Like, let's see if anything else comes out throughout the day.

So then Tuesday, Nick and I chatted.

And dude, I mean, please give us your thoughts.

This was a dog and pony show for the board room

and the investors.

This had nothing to do with the consumer.

I mean, I know that when you say something like Model T

moment, you're the one that puts the pressure on.

Model T moment changed things not only

from a manufacturing perspective, but for us

the consumers, right?

Right.

I mean, we're just looking at it logically.

Best case scenario, we're two years away from being 10 years

away from being 15 years away.

Let's all be clear.

I've been hearing about the skateboard idea

since I was in engineering school.

We're going to put these skateboards.

And then you're just going to drop a body on them.

And we're going to ship cars out faster.

They're going to be so cheap.

It's going to blow your mind.

Well, this one's starting at $30,000 two years from now.

Two years from now.

Allegedly, supposedly.

OK, which it won't be.

Remember, the Maverick was $20,000 for all of seven

minutes.

OK, it's now what, average price $34,000 for a Maverick?

I mean, OK, this seems like to me,

and I hope everybody comments and gives their opinion

on our YouTube or on Spotify or wherever,

this could have been an internal email.

I don't see what this really, being two years away

from being five years away from being seven years away,

when are we going to stop the insanity?

But this was a play for everybody

once the inside story.

The executive team, the C-suite, Jim Farley,

all those people, they saved their job for another two years.

And that's what this is about.

This had nothing to do with the consumer,

in my opinion, this specific announcement.

Yeah, when we talked about it on Tuesday,

just on a quick phone call, I really thought,

I told Nick, going into it, I thought that we were going

to see Ford bring some sort of announcement that was going

to combine what Slate, what they observed Slate was

doing in the market, what they had heard that their consumers

were looking for, all of this time of electrification

in the Ford brand already, as it is,

bring it together and deliver something

that could be a Maverick-esque, Slate-esque product

to the market at a price point that people want

and are yelling from the rooftops that they need,

we got none of that.

So I do have a two-minute video real quick.

We don't even have to watch all of it,

but in case people missed it, I just want to pull it up

and just get a little bit of Mr. Farley's own words.

Yeah, we're not playing two minutes of this.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

12 seconds and then I'm, I'm real good

on the executive speak.

I've been around, I'm around this on a daily basis.

I need this like I need a third nut.

That's a, yeah, an extra hole in my head

would have been one way, but that was a perfect way

to phrase it.

All right, let's see.

This new truck, based on this universal platform,

are going to be more spacious inside

than the RAV4, the best-selling car in the United States.

Which isn't.

But it will have a frunk,

and it will have a whole pickup truck bed behind it.

No one has seen this kind of flexibility.

Tons of room for five adults, bikes, surfboards,

work equipment, whatever you need.

You don't have to put it on the top.

You don't have to put it on a tow hitch.

It's all in the vehicle.

It will be faster than our Mustang twin turbo.

Wow, that's crazy.

It will be fully connected

with a brand new digital experience

no one's seen in our country.

It will offer for the first time fast charging,

it will have amazing range.

All right, you get the gist of it.

Yeah, again.

For somebody that talks a lot.

Two years away from five years away,

from 10 years away.

Hey man, great.

If this is a step forward for Ford,

this is why I said this is an internal email at best.

Yeah.

This is an internal email at best.

It wasn't a Model T moment.

You're not breaking any price barrier here.

You already have a truck on the market

that's at the $30,000 price.

This is the whole EV experience

that's why it continues to be a flop, okay?

Why these companies really struggle to get EV.

It doesn't matter who it is, okay?

Of these American, whether it's the VW Auto Group,

it doesn't matter.

When you don't break through the price point

that already exists in your lineup,

what have you really done for the consumer?

Because again,

this may be a great step forward for them internally.

I'm not saying it is or it isn't.

I mean, we have not seen it in practice yet.

I think one thing that would worry me as a buyer

is they're like, yeah, we're going to use 20% to 30%

less fasteners.

Got news for you.

Ford doesn't build that many good cars

with 30% more fasteners.

I mean, now we're just going to take 30% fasteners out?

I mean, Jim, no offense, bud.

Your stock price is at $11.

Not making me feel the best.

Yeah, I mean, I never look at Ford and go,

you know, real high quality vehicles.

I mean, that's not my take on them.

They're good F-series trucks,

but most of them are on construction sites,

being fleet sales and whatnot.

And I know people that own lots of Fords

through their businesses,

they don't say highest quality truck I've ever driven.

I mean, so we're just going to,

hey, 30% less fasteners.

Come on, man.

You know, I wish there was more to really say about it,

but that's kind of it.

Like we were both let down by the announcement.

It was a let down to the people.

If you go to any comment section,

whether it was that video or any social video,

it's just like, oh, cool,

a digital dash with a new experience.

All right.

I think in their like full blown,

like actual, you know, crafted video

that was supposed to be like an ad for it.

I mean, they got, they're playing Amazon Prime.

They're like playing video games

on the infotainment and on screen.

It's just like, what are we doing?

I hate to sound so cynical,

but this all seems really just out of the blue,

out of just a whole nother galaxy

with consumers that aren't looking for this,

creating solutions really to not exist in problems,

I guess, because nothing changed on price.

Nothing changed on something

that somebody's actually going to want to, you know,

buy it on.

I don't know, it was weird.

I feel like a real huge critic to be a critic,

but I feel like there's more to it

or there should have been more to it at least.

I buddy, I waited all week.

I mean, I called you last night late and I go,

I just want to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Right.

Did they sneak something in four days in?

I said, this is really what they called a Model T moment.

Like, oh, our workers are going to twist around less.

That seems like an internal memo to me.

That doesn't seem like something

that helps me, the consumer.

I want those people to have a great work environment.

Don't get me wrong, but you're not breaking

any barriers price-wise.

The facts that car companies don't understand price barriers

and how they work, that should be the concerning thing

globally.

Check this out.

That should concern you, the consumer.

This is like, they seem to just sit in a boardroom

and go, F the price.

I mean, we're just going to charge it.

We've got to charge.

And everybody's going, I mean, how many of you

are like, I wish I could really play my Xbox

on my center screen.

I mean, that's what's really missing from my RAV4 or what.

But this is what everyone's betting on.

And I understand there's a new generation of buyers

who are going to want more tech.

I realize there's people out there you're listening.

Maybe you want more tech.

But there's a lot of people that

would trade the tech if you could break the price barrier.

Oh, yeah.

Easily.

So and then, let's say something.

Everybody's selling you how expensive the tech is.

And oh, well, the tech, the tech, the tech.

Just remember this.

It's cheaper to put everything in the screen

than make a button.

That tells you how expensive the tech is.

Once the tech platform is there,

the investment has been made, it's

way less than what they're making it out like, oh,

tech, tech, tech.

No, it's to benefit them.

And I'm OK with that.

I want you to make money.

I'm not one of these guys that goes, car company

shouldn't make money and everybody should give me

everything for free.

I want you to make a profit, man.

But if you're not going to break a price barrier here,

then what are we talking about?

And I mean it when I say it, guys.

When I was in college, the skateboard idea

was all of the rage.

That's 20 plus frickin' years ago.

And we're two years away from this one being enacted.

Come on.

This is an announcement.

I mean, I hope it leads to something.

Yes.

10 years from now, but 10 years from now

is the Model T moment.

Not now, when you can't break the price barrier,

when you're supposedly using less fasteners,

using less parts, using less anything,

and it costs the same as a maverick.

You know, one of the funny quotes

from that presentation, I guess we'll call it,

is that quote, if we pull this off,

you will never put an instrument panel

or a seat through a door again,

Ford execs told the workers.

And I'm like, awesome, awesome.

That is internal.

But again, guys, this was a dog and pony show for Wall Street.

It was a dog and pony show for the board.

They want to sell the board on why

they should keep their job another two years.

Like, don't think that this doesn't all play a part in that.

I'm not saying it's the main driver, but it's a driver.

This is what happens when executive teams,

because you've got to realize, you

got Ford's stock price somewhere around,

always hovering around 10 to 12 bucks.

In 22, I think they were up to 25 in some change.

They still have good growth under Jim Farley,

because the stock's so cheap.

I mean, $4 growth is what, 60%?

I mean, since he took office or whatever.

I'm going to say this.

Jim Farley does an excellent job playing the public relations

game.

We all love that he's outspoken.

We all love that he's in front of the camera.

Guys, you've seen this if you're a sports guy.

Football coaches, basketball coaches, baseball coaches

that are great on the microphone.

They get all the benefit of the doubt.

Doesn't matter if they win anything.

Ah, he's a good guy.

You don't win something, and you're not good in front

of the mic.

They fire you, lickety split.

Jim Farley is good at the public relations stuff.

He seemingly is a pretty good operator

when he's concentrated on it.

But look at the GTD thing that we're all cheering on.

Then they get beat at the Nürburgring

by a car that cost $100,000 less.

The Mustang sales are falling.

Expedition and Explorer have lost all kinds of grip

on the market.

Mach-E sales have stalled, if not gone backwards.

Like Bud, you've got real concerns inside the brand.

So guess what they do?

They do this project that guarantees

those executive teams another few years at the helm.

If you don't think this is part of it,

I'm not saying all of it.

This is a part of what you saw this week.

And I think that's unfortunate because nothing's ever focused

on the consumer anymore.

Nothing.

Not just with Ford, by the way.

I'm not just saying this is the Ford stance.

Nobody's thinking about consumer.

The announcement we're about to make.

And again, we're going to say it on this podcast.

It's OK to be quiet.

It's OK.

Have your media team make some cool GTD videos.

Go make some B-roll.

You've got plenty of media people inside these companies.

Go make some cool videos.

Go reach out to some creators and make some driving

around videos of your vehicles.

The CEO doesn't need to be out front like this.

But every company is making this mistake.

They talk constantly.

Nobody has anything exciting to talk about, by the way.

They're just talking.

And that's what we have from Ford here.

It's unfortunate.

Yeah, when Nick and I talked on the phone,

I remember saying, speaking of Wall Street,

you mentioned that earlier, it was like they're

attempting to be really clever with what they're doing,

how they're presenting it to the people.

So it seems like it's this big thing.

But as we were talking on the phone, too, if it is a Wall

Street, and most likely is a Wall Street

play to the investors and people who

are at those executive meetings, they just earned,

and you made a good point, too, they earned themselves

another two years minimum of leash.

Because you can't get rid of this team that just made

this huge announcement that's making this big initiative

and putting, was it $2 billion into the plant to build a.

And this is how some of the EV websites, obviously,

are going to spin it, which is fine.

That's their thing.

They just put $2 billion into upgrading this plant

to build a $30,000 electric truck on a new platform that's

going to radically revolutionize the manufacturing process.

All right, it's a lot of words to use for what we witnessed.

Let's see, here's the thing.

Not everybody who manufactures high-level goods

is still using the assembly line.

So what's revolutionary about it?

Yeah.

You and I know people that are in high-level manufacturing

of other goods.

They don't all just use a straight assembly line.

So for everybody who doesn't know,

they're using a tree system where essentially three

different lines are running, and then they're

coming together to finish the car.

Great, man.

I'm really happy for you.

And I hope this is a big deal.

The consumer needs to know what's the big deal for them,

which is the price point, what they're getting

for the price point, and what barriers you're breaking.

That's what I'm saying here, is that I'm not telling you

that this isn't exciting for inside the Ford Motor Company.

But it doesn't change the world for me, the consumer.

Now, again, if your argument is wait 10 years, OK,

well, I've been waiting 20-plus years on the skateboard idea

to lower costs to such a low point,

you can't believe how cheap you can buy a car.

When does that happen?

You've got EVs going for $150,000.

You've got EVs going for $100,000.

You've got EVs going for $60,000.

Essentially, right now, on mass scale,

you only have from American or international brands

besides the Chinese, you only have one real electric car going

for in the 30s consistently.

It's the Model 3.

Consistently selling a lot of units.

I don't want anybody in the comments to go, well,

this one car is the ones that people are buying.

And here we are, man.

This is a real topic of conversation,

of how are we losing grip on what

is real news to the consumer?

The last five years, what surprised me,

and I think you can probably state your thoughts on this,

how have we lost grip on what to talk to the consumer about?

That's such a good point, because it kind of comes into,

well, before I get into those thoughts, later on that day,

so this was on Monday the 11th that Ford had this announcement.

Later on that day, did you notice some of the Camaro news

that was coming out that afternoon?

I saw a little bit of it, but I think I was in such shock.

I wasn't really watching anything.

I'm not even bringing this up, dude.

I mean, the Chevy Camaro comes back,

but not how you remember it.

We're talking about an EV.

They're going to compete with the Mach E, my brother,

the Mach E. And we can expect a ZL1 to return with 1,000

horsepower electric SUV motor.

Or 1,000 horsepower electric SUV, obviously,

with an electric motor.

And you know what?

This is going to go in the 60s.

This is where we're talking about.

Well, guess what?

Did you see the Chrysler 300 news?

No, but I heard rumblings that that might be,

because it's their only car, essentially.

Yeah, Chrysler, well, the 300 is going to be reborn by 2028 or 2029

somewhere.

$65,000 starting price.

It's EV.

All right, cool.

I mean, OK, what have you guys solved?

What are you guys solving?

You're not solving anything.

So to go back to what you just asked prior to me

bringing up this Camaro news is that what I'm thinking

is because there's so many people that had to double

down, and we've talked about the yo-yo effect

of administrations, governments, the EVs,

all these kind of push, the green push, whatever.

But the people that understand, this

isn't going the push for EV isn't going the direction

that they maybe hoped, or maybe thought,

or were planning on, obviously.

So we're going to have to go back

to some of these combustion cars and platforms

that people want, that people are asking for.

And based on our Boy Dorito donnies,

I should say my Boy Dorito donnies initiatives,

that's what they're having to do.

So I think they're pushing off

a lot of this stuff onto the consumer

to try to recoup some of the money

that they've put into this kind of push of their own

for their companies and their platforms and their EVs

because at least for the next four years, minimum,

I mean, this stuff is not going to sell well with the consumer.

This is like getting Gavin Newsom in front of a podium

with his slick hair trying to tell you

why he should be president of the United States.

That's not going to go over well with the most Americans.

These cars, dude.

And by the way, we're also years and years away.

We've got to realize, man, all these announcements

where you're telling people to just,

hey, here's an announcement, wait two years.

I mean, the news cycle now isn't even 24 hours.

The news cycle is hour by hour.

It's cool.

I mean, do car companies not realize

that the news cycle is not two years, one year?

It's not even one hour.

I mean, you could send me something at 8 a.m.

and by 9 a.m. you're sending me something new

and we've already forgot what you sent me at 8 a.m.

And we still think that we're in a world

where we've got to give an announcement

two years ahead of time.

And then that announcement two years ahead of time

doesn't seem to be fixing anything

that you're already unhappy about as a consumer today.

So again, I know that manufacturing cars isn't easy.

We need to always say that.

I don't envy what these car companies have to do.

We have to be fair as consumers.

But guys, then just don't say anything.

Actually, go behind the scenes and perform.

That's why I say these performances

are for their board, for the Wall Street investor.

They're not for the consumer.

They're losing more and more touch with the consumer.

And I was thinking about this.

Explorer and Expedition should have already been

through a thorough redesign during

his five-year tenure, excuse me.

It's not.

Mustang is losing sales rapidly.

They're just riding it out.

Hey, here's a $350,000 one,

which we all cheer on, but come on.

As the model you're selling to the average consumer

is falling in sales,

you have no halo over the brand

the way you're watching Corvette halo the Chevy brand.

You have, I think, an immense amount of recalls.

The most.

And this is the dog and pony show

that we call the Model T moment.

Not cleaning up the brand,

not fixing what's going on,

not cleaning up your input costs,

which have hurt Ford for generations now,

not bringing the Maverick to the U.S.

at the scale you should have the last five years.

Let's just call us spade-to-spade on that one.

They may have missed the window

of when they could have sold infinitely more of Maverick

from 2020 to 2025.

They just simply couldn't produce on the level

that they should have been able to.

And then this is, turns out, this is what we were doing.

And I don't have a problem with this project,

but to say that this would be the model,

the Model T moment for Ford would be cleaning up the brand.

That would be the Model T moment.

Really, I mean, if you were talking about

what you've watched,

the fiasco of recalls that they continue to have,

that they've always had, the quality control concerns,

the things like that, that's cleaning up.

And I like the guy.

I mean, it's hard not to like Jim Farley.

Very likable.

He says what's on his mind, he's exactly what you want.

If you're somebody that just likes to watch this stuff,

look man, he either felt, him and his team

have felt some type of pressure over their job

or they don't do this.

That's my read, because now they know

Jim Farley's guaranteed himself

seven years of the decade, right?

And you can sit here and believe what you want

that these people aren't preserving their jobs at times.

That's this human nature.

Every one of these executives, every one of you,

every one of us, we've all tried to preserve our job

at some point.

That's what this feels like.

And I'm not saying it's not a big announcement internally,

but this wasn't a big announcement for you, the consumer,

because you can already buy a $30,000 truck from Ford.

So I don't know what this solves.

I really don't.

And I'm prepared to also say

this could change things in the future

when they get this off the ground

and really figure it out.

Cool, man, I'll sign off on that.

But you don't announce it in 2025

unless you're trying to play to the board and the investor.

That's what this was.

The next time that this is announced by Ford,

I want to see something that's the equivalent

of Elon launching a rocket

and catching it with the metal arms.

Like that better be what I see from Ford.

Like that's all I'm saying.

Just do something.

Something cool.

If I just launch the car in the air

with like an excavator and throw it up

and make a video of it and say,

look how high we can throw it.

Team up with whistling diesel

and throw the car somewhere.

I don't know, just make a yo-yo out of it.

I don't know, use a transformer

and drive it into the Grand Canyon

and have a guy, a stuntman, jump out of it.

Just do something.

Anything, anything would be better.

So before we move on, I know

since I brought up the Camaro,

by the way, you have famously called the,

what did you call the Hummer?

It was a GM parts bin mobile or something like that?

Oh yeah, the EV Hummer.

Oh yeah, it's just a, it's a, well, but I mean,

that's GM's kind of that whole history.

So these EVs, these Camaros,

these potential SSZL ones

are basically going to borrow a lot of the

the triple motors or whatever that are in the Hummer EV.

So again, like I was saying,

we got to push some of this stuff.

How do we sell more of this stuff

without having to sell the thing

that's not selling to maybe rebrand it and rebadge it?

So then I would ask this question.

If we're repurposing it

through all of these different things,

shouldn't that the economy of scale bring the price down?

You would think my man.

But that's not what happens.

And so again, we have been,

I have talked very middle of the road about EV,

understanding it, understanding the global implications,

understanding driving price down,

understanding, hey,

some people are tired of the gas engine,

some people want less maintenance, all good.

I'll listen to those arguments.

The economy of scale

was supposed to rapidly bring down the price of cars.

Okay, if they were on this quote unquote,

multi-use platform, motors, whatever.

We aren't really seeing that.

A $60,000 Camaro, if it was an ICE engine,

you guys be like, what the hell are they doing?

So now we're just going to be like, yeah, what's an EV?

It's got to be 60 grand.

It's like, well, okay, man, I guess,

but you guys aren't buying them.

No.

I mean, the Mach-E had its moment.

It's now kind of stalled out.

And I think they did a good job on it.

Yeah.

Right?

Like if they wouldn't have had supply issues,

when I was looking for a car,

I would have had the Mach-E for my family,

driven it around a couple of years,

see what it was all about.

I believed in what they were doing.

The problem is they can't sustain.

Yeah.

It's just a wild thing.

And to have Mustang falling,

the SUV lineup be very underwhelming

and really in need of a facelift.

The issues they're struggling with inside Lincoln,

when I think navigator's been done well,

but don't forget it was what, what?

Nautilus or Aviator had to go through a stop production

because they had, there's things

to concern yourself with in Ford.

And this seems like just another thing of,

we're just going to take our eye off the ball.

Okay, man.

Like, I hope this works out,

but I look at it and I just go,

I'm so underwhelmed by these announcements

from every company.

It's not just Ford, it's like when Toyota says,

hey, we're bringing the small truck.

I mean, they're five years away

from being five years away.

That's now what we have to come to grips with

as a consumer.

And they don't understand the life cycle.

News is an hour by hour thing because of social media.

They think they can still make announcements

five years ahead of time, two years ahead of time,

three years ahead of, I mean, Chrysler 300, 2028.

That's crazy.

This just isn't news.

Nick's rubbing his eyes like,

am I dreaming right now?

Is this some kind of a nightmare in the car world?

Look, listen.

We haven't said this in a while,

but we've had such a spike in the audio portion

of the show.

I know we got clips and videos

and everything everywhere, all day, every day.

But on the auto portion for iTunes

and Spotify, huge spike in listeners.

We appreciate that.

So if you're new to the show,

I know we're 20 minutes in

and I know you're still here

hanging on every word that we're saying.

Welcome to the number one fastest growing automotive

podcast on planet Earth.

We talk about news, obviously, car news,

current events, market trends, predictions,

but it obviously more importantly,

offer you a good hang every single Monday.

And if you want to send us an email,

it's clutchculturepodcast at gmail.com.

We'll get to one or two this episode,

but we don't want to do it every,

I told Nick, I don't want to do it every week

because we don't want to spoil them

with just reading all of their emails every week.

You know, like, you guys are great.

We got to give you the hot takes

before we read all of your emails.

But yeah, it's clutchculturepodcast at gmail.com

and obviously, clutchculturepod.

Let me get it right this time

all over on our socials.

Well, listen, since we've already kind of

beat four down on all the bad stuff,

did you hear the news on the new Shelby Super Snake

and have you seen it, if not?

Hey, I saw it, but I didn't read all the news about it.

Yeah, it looks pretty, they got a wide body kit on it.

Dude, it looks sick.

Check this out.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

That's doing it right.

So exclusive behind the scenes from Hot Rod here,

Shelby's new 2026 Super Snake R.

I love this.

You know what this is now?

What is it?

Track Ready.

It is very true.

That's like a new thing.

That is a new thing.

It's like everybody's got to tell you,

none of you go to the track, but it's Track Ready.

Listen, it's a dark course Mustang

with a ton of suspension work

that takes a Super Snake badge

to new performance levels on track.

And as somebody who's looking at Mach 1s

with the handling package that is very Track Ready,

I'm like, you know what?

I am not gonna take it to the track more than likely,

even though I've got three of them

within an hour of distance of me.

It's just a cool thing to have

going back to the cool factor.

And people hated the videos that we made,

not everyone, but a lot that you said,

you guys don't take this to the track.

Track Days aren't a thing.

The tracks need improvement

and need somebody to save them

because so few people actually go to the tracks.

And it's just a matter of the fact, guys.

It's okay.

How many times have you been to the track, Nick,

in the last two years, three years?

I think I've been twice.

And they were really half-assed Track Days.

Yeah, I go to special events randomly.

Yeah, exactly.

It wasn't an event.

It wasn't like you didn't plan it.

We have a track outside of Vegas.

You didn't get up and say,

I'm gonna go to the track this weekend, right?

No, and 99% of everyone listening

or following doesn't either.

I mean, that's why I said

you can buy most tracks with a bag of oranges.

I mean, everyone's trying to unload the track.

I mean, every one of them's for sale, trust me.

If you wanna give them a little bit of cheddar

and maybe throw in a bag of oranges,

you can buy a lot of the tracks around the US for sure.

And again, I want it to be more popular.

Of course.

It's price prohibitive.

I mean, sets of tires, different wheels,

all the makeup that goes with a guy doing it on his own,

I want it to be more popular.

I'd love if it was more popular.

That'd be great.

The stats tell us that it isn't.

And again, we're now using Track Ready to sell a car,

which I think is cool.

Okay, that Super Snake looks great, right?

It looks great.

And I'm curious what the price point's gonna be.

I'm more, I'll tell you what,

before I tell you the price,

because I gotta look for it,

I'm more focused on getting the interest in cars back

than I am Track Focus ready cars

or people that are ready to go to the track,

because I'm looking for people to wanna get a license at 16,

right, not 21 or 25.

I'm getting people,

I want people to get interested in the world of cars,

not can I have a Track Ready car to go to a track day?

Like we're not halfway,

we're not a quarter of the way they are.

By the way, at 16,

you're not gonna buy a $95,000 car, right?

I mean, that's the other part of it.

I mean, you know,

we have to understand the dynamics

we're playing with here.

I mean, I love that any car company's investing

in something sports car adjacent,

sports cars themselves,

we need to root that on

because they're largely disappearing.

And anytime that these companies stay with it,

we should encourage that and be like, yes,

I'm glad they're doing it.

That's why I said, hey,

this car looks cool from what I've seen.

It looks like they're doing something unique.

But again, they're kind of doubling down

on a platform that's losing sales as well.

Yeah.

You know, so we have to give both sides of the coin here

is Mustang do for a complete facelift

and rethinking of what Mustang can be longterm.

They don't seem to be interested in that.

They doubled down on GTD on the same platform.

They're now double-doubling with the Super Snake.

And I'm cool with those cars being built.

But if you're talking about longterm,

they can't sell the average Mustang

at the level they need to be able to.

No, and people hated when I made this comment months ago,

but let's just start diving into the world

of four-door Mustangs.

And wagon Mustangs.

Like you already did the Mach-E.

You put the sacrilegious to put it on an EV,

but you did it anyway.

It sold well for a while.

Let's just try that with the four-door, the family car.

But for pricing, so the GTD, we thought,

or we said it's 325, 327 is what I remember seeing.

This one, $100,000 less, 224, 225

is where it's gonna start.

Whoa.

My guy, if you say it's a dark course

with suspension bits and I guess a wide-body package here,

are you joking?

I can get a dark, I mean, 50, it's 55, I guess,

some of them, if it's already got a couple of miles on it.

Well, I got a crazy thought.

I mean, what are you getting?

I mean, you're in ZR1 territory.

225, you're in just about everything that's cool.

You're in ZR1.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I mean, you're in real heavy hitter territory.

I mean, you're talking about,

there is a bunch of exotic cars you can pick up

for less than 220.

I mean, just be, I mean, name the brand.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, you may have to go two years old,

three years old, I get it.

But I mean, anytime you start talking about,

you're 150 plus.

I mean, hell, you're in GT3 territory.

Pretty much.

At this point with that.

Yeah.

I mean, some of them are track-ready.

And that's been my argument about GT3

is that if you just want an out-of-the-box track ripper,

I mean, it's gonna be hard to find something better

than a GT3, right?

Just out-of-the-box, not have to touch it,

not have to do much.

I mean, that's kind of what's funny

about people driving them to the dentist.

But I mean, that's, you're in an insane price point.

And again, I understand the argument

that if you do enough to the car

that it's gonna cost what it's gonna cost.

But this shows that Ford has an input problem to it.

I mean, is it gonna be infinitely better than a Z06,

which you can pick up for what, 75 grand less?

I mean, I don't think so, but you know,

who are we, we're cynical podcasting

automotive journalist over here.

I mean, I wanna root it on, but this is what I mean.

I mean, they're losing touch with you, the consumer.

Especially the Ford brand seems right now

to be very not in tune with the consumer.

And I know we can say that about other brands.

We're just happy to be talking about a Ford here.

But 220 plus when Z06 is cheaper out of the box,

again, somebody's gonna say this or say that,

it's gonna be hard to beat that, you know, infinitely.

You're not that far from ZR1 territory.

You're now in GT3 territory used, I understand.

You're in new 911 turbo territory.

I don't know, man.

You're taking a real big swing at something

that doesn't seem like the price point

was the thought inside that executive decision

on what was going on here.

Well, let's cleanse the palette

with one of the favorite topics of the internet

when it comes to our show.

It's Toyota, okay?

So I got a text here just now.

It's a text what you could tell was copy and pasted

from a dealership that was sent to this individual.

This is the insert dealership here.

We're finished servicing your Toyota Tundra

and have provided you an estimated offer of 46,175

for your 2021 Toyota Tundra.

Please contact the dealership if you're interested.

They bought this in 2021 brand new Zero Mile

Serity Pro for 56, and now in 2025

they're being offered 46 one for it.

Is he selling it?

No, he's like, I just got an oil change.

I was like, that's such a dealership thing.

He goes, yeah, no, I'm not selling it.

He goes, isn't this what you guys

would have considered cheap mileage?

And I was like, damn, is that what you're selling?

He goes, no, I went to go get an oil change.

Yeah, no, it is.

Look, people had a real visceral reaction

to your clip that you did with the bow tie and Ben's guy,

just because the guy gave him the math on.

We have a very visceral reaction to mathematics

now on the internet.

Math cannot math these days.

It's not supposed to math.

People hate math.

I don't know if it was like,

we need to really look at the education system.

Everyone's working on girl math

or something.

I don't know what it is.

Yeah, I mean, people are way angry about mathematics.

Yeah, that's kind of what we said.

He's got a post-2020 purchase.

Got the VA, baby.

The used market is insane for Toyota's right now,

which is why we said in that clip, and I'll repeat,

if you believe Toyota's last a long time,

then by all means, guys, you need

to be looking older right now, because there's not,

with used car financing and the interest rates being

where they're at and those kinds of things,

I mean, we're just seeing it over and over again.

I'm very happy for that guy.

Any of you people that have kept some semblance of value

in whatever car or truck you've purchased, that's awesome.

Like, and Toyota does that.

We've never argued that Toyota does a great job

with the depreciation scale and showing you guys value there.

People seem to conflate that with,

when I drive a vehicle that costs $75,000,

I want it to feel like a $75,000 car.

That doesn't mean I'm saying it's not,

you're not gonna get good money out of it or whatever.

Those are separate conversations.

We're talking about driving experience, seating experience,

getting around town, those kinds of things,

and people conflate depreciation schedule

with the conversation about,

is the car good enough to warrant you paying $75,000

and feeling like you're getting a $75,000 experience?

That's, those are two different conversations.

So for your friend that had this offer,

awesome, and it is cheap mileage.

It is cheap mileage, and that's great for him.

And I'm happy for him.

That's where it ends.

But when people talk about the mathematics,

like Ben's and Bowtie, the internet flips out.

They just don't understand that you're having

in a vacuum talk about money,

it's not anything else rather than that,

other than that.

That's what I think people get very angry about.

Yeah, and because we're professionals here

and everything seems to come full circle in this podcast

week after week, 40 weeks into the show,

another clip of Ben's and Bowtie's actually Doug,

just call him Doug, who,

I don't know if he's watching our stuff

or if more, obviously a lot of it's getting shared,

so it's just getting passed around

into different algorithms, but you were talking

about test drives, we got emails about people like,

thanks for, you know, suggesting more test drives

with test drives, more cars.

So there's a video here about overnight test drives.

I'm gonna play it.

Do you wanna play it and then give you feedback,

or do you already have thoughts on overnight test drives?

No, go ahead.

Okay, let me just pull it up for you real quick,

because I'm sure, you know,

this will kind of make for a better

of a back and forth anyway.

I don't know that I've ever seen anyone buy a car

that has requested an overnight test drive ever.

Really?

Okay.

That's not true.

So just like a joy ride and a...

Pretty much.

Okay.

Free car for the weekend, right?

I thought so, and I've had that happen before.

Yeah, we've had, there have been several times

where you could tell in the conversation

with the client that like the thing holding them back

from a decision was, you know,

they kind of needed to live with it for a day,

so if we offer it, it's a different story.

I'm just telling you that in 14 years,

never once has a client asked for an overnight test drive.

People don't even know what that is, right?

So if they are asking for it.

If you need a little bit longer of a test drive,

like an extended test drive to, you know,

go to the grocery store,

it is getting things in and out of the car

and you know, just living with it for a couple hours,

I can probably make that happen.

Why isn't he going back to the dealer he got this from?

It was just like, I feel like, like he said

they had just agreed to everything.

They didn't even make him test drive the car.

It's kind of like they just had everything,

you know, kind of done.

He was like, usually we don't test drive cars.

This is why you should always test drive it,

no matter how sure you are.

I don't know that I've ever.

All right, whoop.

Yeah, so let's play something here.

He is probably not talking about VIP clients

that buy lots of stuff that say,

hey, send me that car, let me drive it around

for a while and I'll get back to you.

I can name just through Mercedes here,

I got probably three or four clients

that do that consistently.

So he, I'm not saying he's not telling the truth

because I'm not him, but the fact is that

he's got VIP clients at his dealership

that 100% say, hey, I don't know if I'll really

like a G-Wagon, give it to me for a couple of days

so I can see if I like it.

That happens at his dealership

because it happens at, just through

my limited amount of clients that I work with

on purchasing their vehicles, we have it happen here.

And that would be technically multi-day,

sometimes a week, those types of things.

So the average person, he's right.

The people that maybe have never purchased

from your dealership and they asked

for an overnight test drive, would that be something?

He'd probably go, yeah, look, man,

they're just trying to work the system.

Yeah, I could see that, but he certainly knows

there are VIP clients that their dealership

is working with, that they just send them a car

any time they ask to see if they would like it

and they keep it for one day, three days, five days,

hell, three weeks, whatever they want

because they know that person's bought

five, 10, 15, 20 vehicles from them, if not more.

That's, I think he's talking in general consumer,

but at his dealership, they're sending

their VIP clients a car if they ask for it, come on.

Yeah, it just didn't make sense.

Like in 14 years, the number one's like, okay,

I understand what you're doing now,

like you're almost rage-baiting people

into commenting on the video that you're making,

which is kind of part of the game.

Yeah, and then by the way, I like his,

I'm gonna say this, he's a guy I'll defend

because I do think he's showing the real.

I also think we have to understand

that when we talk to the general consumer,

the VIP client of an expensive dealership car

is getting treated vastly different

than the average consumer walking in to buy a car.

And what he's not doing is giving you the real of both.

He's talking about general consumer saying,

I wanna test drive a C300 overnight.

It's like, yeah, they're probably not gonna buy it.

That I would agree with, but if somebody's bought

a bunch of S500s, S600s, whatever, Maybox from you,

and says, hey, I wanna test drive this for a week,

they're definitely doing that.

Let me ask you this, when someone's buying a used car

and you go to a lot,

because I've seen a lot of videos like this in the past

and they pull up the car facts

where they end up finding out that the car was imported

usually from like Canada.

What are your thoughts on buying a Canadian car in the US

either as a second buyer or a third fourth even

once it's on there?

Yeah, I mean, if you're buying through a dealer

and they've already taken care of all the import

and all that kind of stuff,

look, you're looking for the obvious things.

Is there rust?

How is the car taken care of?

Can you get any kind of records on the car?

It's a very different conversation

talking about you having to handle all the imports.

I think largely most of the people out there don't bother.

You're just gonna get a headache you don't really want.

Not saying it's hard, but you know what I mean?

Like most of the average consumer

just wants an easy purchase, right?

That's why dealerships still exist.

They just want things to be made easy.

That's why CarMax does so well.

Historically, here's one price

and you're gonna pay this

and we're gonna get the paperwork done,

we're gonna get you in and out of here.

So all of that kind of stuff.

If the car has come from somewhere else,

but the dealer or the used guy

has already done all of the work,

I don't have a problem taking a look at it.

I wouldn't be overly concerned.

I'd just check for the normal stuff, rust,

how it was taken care of, et cetera.

So if the person was like, how does this affect

or does it matter that it might have more of a,

or will it even have more of a ding

when it comes to resale or trade in later?

It could, it could, but again,

everything you're talking about

when it comes to trading in

from an exotic to a normal car

is all about how long are you gonna keep it?

How many miles are you gonna put on it?

Is it a desirable car?

This seems to be another thing

people need to hear more often.

We had this with the modification conversation, okay?

A desirable platform

where you modify to fix factory defects,

you're gonna get your money out of it.

Taking a car and doing whatever modifications

you want to it that don't necessarily mean

the general public knows that they should be done

and you're doing it with cheap products

and this mishmash of manufacturers of aftermarket

that nobody knows.

Yeah, man, you're not getting your money back, right?

So it's the same thing with your used car.

Can Canada or another country ding the resale value

if you're trying to resell it

after you own it in the States?

It could, but if it's a highly desirable car,

it's not gonna ding it.

Yeah, no one's gonna buy it.

But again, that's what we have to always repeat

is that there's levels to desirability

and if you've got a really desirable car,

very rarely do things ding it besides crazy mods

or things that live that nature.

So speaking of, I had a couple of notes here.

We've had this conversation on and off the podcast,

you and I, several times and even here recently too.

The game is, one, we've talked about cheap miles

and we'll continue to talk about that.

Buying correctly, don't buy everything

or anything in the FNI office and you'll win.

But also platform, right?

Specifically, like the game is platform

and mods to the platform.

We also talked about you and I on the phone

doing things right and just getting it done.

There's a lot of conversations to be had

and I think a lot of that also shifts

the person's perspective on what they expect to win or lose

when it comes to the purchasing

or the selling of these cars.

No matter what it is, exotic or regular car, right?

I know you have a lot of thoughts on this.

Whether it's your BMW or the Lexus.

Yeah, getting jobs done and then doing things right

are two different things, okay?

A lot of us in our car world, modifications wise,

just wanna get it done.

We always talk about the guys that love to tune cars.

To really tune cars at a high level is pretty pricey.

I mean, to really do it to a high level

that people are going to respect and go,

oh, you really paid the money to do it correctly.

Getting the job done on a wheel package,

on an engine tune, on aftermarket front splitter, whatever,

is very different than doing it correctly to the highest level.

And doing things that provide value to the next owner.

Now, we all do modifications for one reason

because we like them.

Like most of us know, or maybe some people don't know,

if you ever need to resell, let's just say a BMW M3

and you have a really high quality HRE

or you have a BBS or whatever,

you're still gonna have better resell

by putting the original wheel and tire package

back on the car, okay?

I mean, bring a trailer, we'll tell you that,

cars and bids will tell you that,

auctioneers will tell you that,

put the stock stuff back on it,

just offer the set of wheels as bonus,

but you can probably kiss the money goodbye

on your wheels and tires.

You wanna know why?

Not everybody loves your taste.

Doesn't matter how high quality you do.

So wheels and tires are one of those things you go,

I'm doing it because I wanna do it.

I'm doing it because I wanna personalize my car, okay?

But when you go to sell the car,

put the stock stuff back on it.

I'm telling you, every auction will tell you that.

And that's okay, but in the BMW world,

if you go and do cheap aftermarket parts

when you could have just done the Dynan system,

the Dynan system is well respected

through the BMW community, okay?

And you guys all know what's respected

in your community out there of cars that you're modifying.

If you don't choose to do the highest quality modifications

from the most trusted source

and then have them installed in a high quality way,

yeah, man, you can probably kiss your money goodbye

on most things.

Ha ha ha, right?

They're just sitting there doing the math right now

like, damn, I really want this,

but I know I'm gonna lose my shirt

as we've talked about, like, do I do it anyway?

Most people are gonna do it anyway.

They're like, you know what?

I'm gonna enjoy it, whatever.

Which by the way, we're all four.

I'm all four you're doing with whatever you want.

Foolishness, when Nick's about,

we're both about the foolishness.

I love foolishness, I love it, I love it.

I mean, it's like, it's my driving force in life

is to watch foolishness.

Somebody acting crazy on the street,

you know, somebody getting in a fist fight

that I can watch, whatever it is, I'm in.

But again, you know, when you make a comment

that you got burned on modifications,

I guarantee if I go look through that car,

I can tell you why you got burned.

You did things to just get it done.

You didn't do the highest quality.

You didn't do the things that are accepted

in that community as high quality modifications.

All acceptable, because it's your car, right?

Do what you want.

But then don't bring it to people

that do things to a highest quality

on a platform that's highly desirable, right?

That's not the same thing.

That's not apples to apples.

That's apples to oranges.

After all this time of internet car media

and car bills and YouTube and all that,

what's still astonishing to me

is the amount of people

that'll go to a comment section

and they'll just bring all of their Dave Ramsey information

or all of their money guy show information

and try to rationalize with car enthusiasts

as if they don't already know

that what they're doing

isn't the best financial decision on most cases.

By the way, there's no hobby in the world

that doesn't cost you money.

Yeah, it's so weird.

I mean, even if you just run outside

and you're like, hey, I run long distances

and you go, the road is free.

Well, not technically.

If you're a homeowner, you pay taxes for the road.

How much of those hoaxes are you going through?

Okay, not only that, let's talk about this.

You got to buy running shoes.

Exactly.

I'm guessing you buy running clothes.

I'm guessing you buy running socks.

I'm guessing you buy.

Got the liquid gel packs.

Yeah, gel packs.

I'm guessing you buy fitness trackers, right?

I mean, that's probably the most affordable,

quote unquote, hobby you can have

because you're running outside.

But the scrutiny cars get, bro.

The scrutiny of the cars get

because you can more easily compare that

to your life circumstances

and where you can be in five years

if you don't do this or in 10 years

or in two years if you don't do this.

It's just really bizarre to me.

And I know a lot of these people are smarter

than the average non-car person

and yeah, they might make some irresponsible decisions

from time to time, but again, it's the hobby.

It's the fact that you're making the purchase

because like you've said several times,

it's an enjoyment factor

that you're trying to get out of this thing.

Whether it's the running high or the RPM high,

it doesn't matter.

It's so crazy.

It's lost on people on social media space.

It doesn't matter if you're buying a 1980s VW

and that's what you're into

and you're not chasing speed,

you're just chasing like,

hey man, I remember when I was growing up,

I really love this thing.

Whatever it is.

And you have the chance to buy it.

A lot of people don't realize about car enthusiasts.

A lot of us are trying to capture something

we weren't able to afford back then.

Absolutely.

Okay, and we're just like,

I just wanna feel what I felt back then.

And some car enthusiasts are like,

I want the latest and greatest, right?

There's different levels to this and different things.

There's some of you that love lifted trucks.

There's some of you that love sports cars.

There's some of that love the off-road world.

And there's some of you that go,

hey man, I wish I could have really bought this,

you know, seven series BMW in 1999.

I know it's a bad purchase,

but I always wanted to own one.

You know what I mean?

And it's like, that's what people leave out of this.

Some of it is just,

I wanna go back to a time where I wish I had this money

and I just wanna relive what I thought.

There's a bunch of great TikTok and Instagram accounts now

that are going to these like smart small car communities

where guys are buying stuff

from the 90s and early 2000s.

And every one of them says the same thing,

like always wanted to own it.

And I'm never gonna sell this.

And they're putting all this money into it.

And you go, they're not chasing speed.

They're not chasing, all they are chasing is,

I always wanted to have this thing.

And it's not special to me.

And it's not special to you and many of you listening.

But this one guy, this is what his hobby is about,

is just capturing a time in his life

when he wasn't able to afford it.

And now he can go back and go,

I'm gonna relive that time my way.

It's just like people going

and seeing the Rolling Stones still.

I can't believe people go and see the Rolling Stones.

I mean, you wanna,

and I've had people give me tickets.

Like, hey, you wanna go see the Rolling Stones in Vegas?

I said, why would I wanna go see 90 year old guys?

I mean, you're kind of getting this way with Metallica.

Like I'm a Metallica guy.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Another five, six, seven years.

It's probably run its course.

I hit up Nick and I was like, hey.

It's probably time to go, hey.

Listen, I heard, funny thing, two things.

Megadeth just announced her final album

and that's gonna start their farewell tour.

So we got that coming up.

But also there's gonna be a residency,

I think at the Sphere in Vegas,

and I told Nick, hey bro,

if anything comes across your table,

he goes, yeah, okay.

Cause they're not gonna be $10,000 a ticket.

Like, what do you want me to do here?

Like, there's no way.

Yeah, yeah, no.

And I think it's one of these things like,

but I also, when somebody loves the Rolling Stones

and I go, hey man,

they were around when I was young.

Sure.

I just wanna go relive my youth.

You go, all right, brother, I get it.

Like, it's not my thing,

but I get why you're doing it.

It's a car world is the exact same way.

Somebody wants an experience,

whether that's a new experience they can afford

or they wanna go back to this time and relive it.

It's not hard to understand,

but it is like this thing, like you said,

where everybody wants to talk about the money all the time.

And let me explain some to you.

There's certain things you're gonna buy in life.

You're never getting your money back.

I bet you every single one of you has a refrigerator.

Let me tell you this.

You ain't getting your money back.

It's gonna break down.

You're gonna have to get you a new one.

Every one of you has a flat screen in your living room.

You're gonna get some enjoyment

and then it's gonna be time to get a new one.

You're not gonna trade it in for it.

We do a lot of things that aren't technically great

financial decisions if you really wanna break it down

to ground zero.

We can all sit in a blank room,

live in a studio apartment, shove our family in there,

all sleep in the same room, save all the money,

but we don't do that.

That's not American.

We don't do it.

That's not American.

We want a house we can't afford.

We want stuff.

Speaking of stuff, what's the right size TV?

If I had to ask you, if you were gonna buy a TV for,

let's just call it like a media room

or even a living room,

what is the best size in your opinion?

So it depends on the room first.

Oh, how big the room is, yes.

Yeah, some people have a theater room

and some people are in an apartment.

So for me, in your living room,

somewhere between that 65 and 80 inch,

if you have the room, that's pretty much the sweet spot.

You get into like,

if for anybody that's never been in the projector world,

it's pretty expensive to get that stuff

to look really, really good.

It's coming down, obviously.

I know everybody, I'm not an audio visual expert.

I'm sure someone's out there.

I'm not trying to hone in on your world.

I'll stay in my lane here.

But yeah, man, I mean, that's 65 to 80 inch.

It's a great experience.

Like you get a great sound system in your living room

with a 65 inch to 72 inch, whatever.

I mean, that's a great experience.

Yeah, I agree.

So we have a 75 in the living room,

but this year, I mentioned the first season

that I've gotten MLB, the MLB package or whatever.

And I'm like, you know what?

A hundred inch would really kind of set this living room

off while I was like, what are you talking about?

Like, we don't need that.

I was like, I'm just saying like, come next season.

You know, come 20, 26 season.

I'm not saying today.

I'm saying next.

Now the wheels are turning.

I really could see myself with a hundred inch.

I mean, can you imagine Ellie Dela Cruz

hitting a homer on a hundred inch screen

that's like this far away from you?

Ellie, the biggest freaking Major League Baseball, dude.

Dude, yeah.

Reds are on a, they're on like teeter-teering.

Like what's going to happen?

They going to make a run or they not?

Like, I don't know.

It's exciting.

They're probably going to trade Ellie Dela Cruz

at the last 20 years of my,

30 years of my life tells me anything.

We need to recoup some of this money.

What are we doing?

Hey, Ellie's the man, dude.

And by the way,

I realize how massive that dude is.

Super tall.

And super fast.

Oh, dude.

It's so fun to watch.

It's a good time for sports, man.

But look, I got about one or two more stories

if we can get to them.

But I want to answer or I want to get this question,

this email from Luke over to you.

Cause I think it's one of your favorite topics

and I'm super exaggerating here.

But Luke been listening for a long time,

asks, love the show.

What do you think about those scented trees

that you hang on your rear view mirror?

Do you have it?

Do not do it.

Listen, do you have a preferred scent?

I have so many memories of cars

having a certain smell or scent

going back to the nostalgia factor

and it instantly brings me back to whenever I smell it.

Now I'm going to say real quick,

the black ice ones,

those were like every Fox body growing up.

There's some everywhere.

At those, dude.

100%.

Do you have one?

And what do you think of them?

So for people that don't know,

I am very anti-sent in a car.

Okay.

I understand it, if that's your thing.

I like cleanliness.

I like the cleanliness smell.

If you have leather seats,

I like the leather smell of the seats.

And so a lot of people have scents

because they don't realize how dirty their car is.

But here's what I'll say.

You guys really need to hear it.

I just got sent a photo this week,

but I get them all the time

where putting scents in your car,

I've seen the worst I ever saw was,

I believe it was an Audi

that had a scent thing on the rear view

that the whole center console got damaged

when that scent kinda started permeating down

to the center console,

the whole center console had to be ripped out.

What?

The picture I got today,

and I can share this when we dropped this episode on Monday,

somebody hung a scent on the stalk of the turn signal

and the plastic around the tree and everything

started to peel off.

Dang.

Many of you that see that foggy

inside of your windows and windshield,

that actually comes from the scents you're hanging

or have in there,

that stuff's permeating and it fogs up your windows.

I don't do that stuff.

I understand why people do,

but Luke, I'm anti that stuff.

I just don't like it.

I've never been into it,

but I can remember the car wash days

when you'd go to those old hand car washes

and they'd be like,

do you want pina colada?

Do you want cherry?

Do you want vanilla?

Nick's like back away.

Back away from my car.

But my family loved them.

I just, I love cleanliness.

I agree.

The smell of a clean car,

if people use our interior cleaner,

it's very lightly to no scent

because also I got kind of spoiled

being around more expensive cars in my business,

and those individuals pay to smell the Ferrari,

to smell the Bentley,

to smell the leather that's being used.

So I get it.

That's just my take,

but it can cause serious damage,

believe it or not,

and it happens a lot more often than you think.

There was a video that I edited for Nick a long time ago,

and I didn't honestly, dude,

because I also don't like,

I like the scent of the car, right?

Especially if it's kept well

and you got leather, like you said,

but when you use your interior cleaner,

which would have been, what was it?

It was revived.

Usually, when you use it on the car,

you're like, hey, here's a hack for you.

Use it on here.

Dude, and all you did was squirt, squirt, wipe it,

and it was like night and day difference,

and I was like, that came from just the sentry?

Like that's nuts.

Yeah, I mean, you got to think of it like a vape almost.

The guys out there that have ever seen the inside of a car

where somebody vapes inside there,

I mean, you can get a lot of fog.

You can get a lot of like buildup on the windows

and the glass and that kind of,

I mean, it's the same thing.

I mean, the damage factor alone

just doesn't work there for me.

Now there's things you can spray into the carpet

that are deodorizers that can start to eat away

at some of those bad smells,

but cleanliness rules the day to have your car smell

the best it can smell.

Would the carpet system be the deodorizer

you'd recommend on the hypercleaning side?

No, no, our carpet system has an enzyme in it.

Like if you use our enzyme,

it'll clean up a lot of smells.

So, I mean, it's literally,

an enzyme eats away at bacteria and things like that.

So it's a great starting point for people

if they go into our system and you go,

hey, my car's kind of funky.

Take this and scrub your carpets a little bit.

You'll get a lot of the funk out.

Dude, that's awesome.

I will say, like I said, the black ice was mine growing up

in every Fox body, every F body.

Everybody had that in their cars.

And then I, there was a local feed store,

Mr. Nula's shout out.

He had these, they were just like little squares,

but it was scented with leather and like cinnamon.

And I'm like, I had cloth seats at the time.

I was like, this makes me feel like

I'm driving a car with leather in it.

So I'm just gonna go with it.

But that's a flashback to you.

Yeah, I'm just gonna just put it under the seat

and be like, yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

That's exactly what I do.

Hey, you know these new cloth leather seats?

You can smell them.

Yeah, that's right.

Well, in all fairness, the SRT4 had cloth,

they had the Viper quote unquote seats

where had leather like on the inserts

and then the rest of the cloth.

Here's exactly what we say.

I mean, parts bends, you know,

hey, we're gonna put this in the Viper.

I will take no, I will take no slander of the neon.

No slander of the neon.

All right, one last thing before we land the plane.

Not that it's that important to most people,

but the new Toyota Land Cruiser screens

are, I guess, making an update.

I didn't even know there were already

yet like interior upgrades for these Land Cruisers.

So I was looking at something,

somebody sent me a picture of a car they were looking at

and I, oh, see, I'll give them credit there.

Look, at least it's buried into the-

Right, yes.

It's buried into the design.

You gotta give them some credit.

They put a little outline on it, you know,

better than most.

Agreed.

But I think, again, I would ask people this

and this is one of the things that I wonder

if everybody else sees it this way.

I'd be curious of everyone's opinion.

Somehow we gotta get back to screen design

where it's like the whole thing looks natural.

Yes.

This looks a little more natural,

but it's still, obviously, they made the tachometer

and all that kind of stuff taller to fit the screen

that they were gonna put beside it, right?

So it's still a little bit not into the flow

of the entire dash, but it's better than most.

Let's give them credit on that.

But what I wanna see is I just like things that look like,

I never thought I'd say this, but like,

can we get back to just some elegance

to how we put the screens into the front of the car?

Yeah.

And not where it's just like hanging out the top

or we made the tachometer area so much bigger.

You know what I mean?

Like, I don't know, man.

Like, I know it's a minor thing,

but I think you would be surprised

how much more enjoyable sitting in a car would be

because you don't need to speedometer that big.

It's only that big to make sure

that the screen doesn't stick out.

That's a good point.

You know what, I was overlooking this.

You're right, there's so much just empty dead space here.

Yeah, look how much plastic is around that

just because they knew they needed to fit the screen.

Now, to their credit, they go,

we'll just make this look like one piece,

which is better than what most companies are doing.

Like you showed the GTI

where they just plopped the screen on top of the vents.

So bad.

They're like, yeah, you'll be good with it.

It's like, I don't know, man.

Can we give a little thought to just,

and again, you got to give them credit.

At least there's some buttons there.

Yeah.

You got to give them credit.

There's some buttons.

Back to that, you said that at the very top of the show,

and that's a good place to kind of land,

is that people, when you reply,

or you, I, or anybody replies,

like it's just cheaper for them

to do everything in the screen versus the buttons.

Like, it's funny how many people

that doesn't click with it.

They're like, oh, that is more efficient.

That is more cost-effective.

Like, that's why they're all doing it,

but I think they're gonna have to revert back, bro.

Like, you got to have the buttons.

There's some companies that are,

I hate to use the word the right way,

but guys, if I have to dig through a screen,

they've already done studies on this.

Anytime you got to dig through your screen,

your eyes aren't on the road.

So the buttons are more than just

an enthusiast complaining about no buttons.

There's actually a safety issue to

a knob to turn up your radio up and down.

It's intuitive.

It's like, the reason the yoke on the Tesla

was kind of silly is because a round steering wheel

is pretty intuitive.

Like, let's just stay with what works.

I get we all wanna do something special here,

but there's certain things that are intuitive

to the way you drive a car.

And being able to turn your AC up and down

and do it quickly and not have to dig through a menu.

Like, there's a safety element,

but realize, again, as they're telling you

all this stuff is for safety

and they're burying things deep inside of a touchscreen,

how much do they really care about safety?

You gotta balance the words they're using

with the actions they're doing.

And this is my last question for you today.

Do you have any interior gripes,

even if we are talking about buttons?

Not screens, but just buttons

where the placement of this brand's button,

any button it could be,

that you're just like, I hate this button is here

versus there.

Anybody that ever remembers the track pads?

Like the track pads on Lexus, I think Acura may have done it.

Yeah, horrible.

I mean, it was literally not hindsight 2020 dumb.

It was dumb the minute you used it.

So again, we always talk about

how many people tested this system to go.

We nailed it.

Nailed it, send it.

The first day you get in it,

or the one time you get in it,

you go, oh my God, this thing's awful.

Not one person said a word at the manufacturer.

They're like, yeah, this is great.

Saving their jobs.

That was the worst thing I ever saw.

There was something called,

for those of you that bought Escalades years ago,

not that long ago, maybe a decade ago,

they had a Q system.

Oh, the Q system works.

It was the most egregious.

We had an SRX with it.

Infotainment system in the history.

Because it was like kind of haptic and not haptic.

And then you would touch something,

your volume would go all the way up.

The nightmare, dude.

Because you were like, it was horrible.

I mean, it was absolutely,

that should have been changed

the day they knew they had a problem.

And it lasted 10 years.

It could have been like, oh yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

I've had some weird stuff.

I mean, I haven't owned that many Audi's,

but their volume button was always

on the center console of certain Audi's.

Yes.

I thought it was completely stupid.

It was completely stupid.

That is my biggest gripe.

Yep.

The Mazda, do they have it in the center console?

And I'm just like, that is my big,

because I'm always reaching for,

I want the knob here.

I want the volume knob in front of me.

It's okay to not overthink the room and go,

you know what's really good?

The volume knob where everybody knows

the volume knob should be.

It's okay.

You know, you rattled off three or four of them

and I knew somehow the volume button was gonna be in there.

I just knew it.

I'm like, I can't be the only one.

Yeah, the center console volume button.

I mean, again, if it's your car,

you get used to it, whatever.

But if you're jumping in multiple cars,

let's say your family car has a normal volume button

and then you jump back in your car

after driving the family car on the weekend,

you're like, where's the volume?

Oh, you know, it's just like, guys,

we all know where it should be.

We all know where it should be.

Brands are gonna listen to this.

I'm telling you, they're gonna listen

to conversations like this,

because even if your infotainment knobs

are in the console, cool.

If you have car play, do you ever even touch

the rest of the knobs on the center console car?

No, you don't.

You only go for the volume,

which you're still doing this,

but it's down here.

It's like, that doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, I actually, I don't know how everybody,

I would really like to hear it.

I've always struggled with the controls

on the steering wheel.

Really?

Because, I mean, it's just not intuitive to me.

I mean, you gotta realize.

You got buttons or wheels or what?

Either one of them.

Either one?

Because I always just reach for whatever I wanna do.

I know it's a bad habit.

Whatever I wanna do, I reach for

what I was trained for decades to do.

As soon as things started to go into the steering wheel,

and this could just be a me thing,

I always gotta like look down and go,

okay, where's this?

Where's that?

But I'm in so many different cars

in my life that I go,

I just don't know where everything is.

This is a Mercedes.

This is an Audi.

This is a Lexus.

And they didn't standardize the steering wheel buttons.

That's true.

And I'm like, I just don't know where everything's at.

Yeah, I would agree with that

and say that the wheels for the volume

or anything else,

that is my biggest pet peeve of the steering wheel part.

So the volume for the car itself

and then the volume, what's just so silly to me?

I like the buttons, two buttons, skip,

fast forward, go up and down.

We're good to go.

Volume knob, let's go.

But all right guys, thanks for tuning in to the podcast.

Leave us a review on Apple or give five stars on Spotify

if you enjoy the show.

Send us an email,

classicaltropodcastatgmail.com.

Nick, we'll see everybody next week.

See you guys.

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