Gone Too Soon & Stayed Too Long, Fight For The Backseat, What’s The Catch? | Episode 1,023

Happy Tuesday, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. We hope you had, if you're in the

US, an awesome Thanksgiving weekend. We had a really great Thanksgiving weekend. We did

not, unfortunately, travel to VIR, Virginia International Raceway, where a mid-Atlantic

had a throw down. Huge weekend. Two-day event. We're very excited for Devin and Heather

and Ryan and all the people that came. But we hope you had a great weekend and got

to have enough family and not too much family. There's a fine line there. That's what I'm

hoping for all of you.

Sure. And the stretchy pants and all too, we hope it was good. And guys, thank you for

joining us once again. Appreciate it.

We have a little bit of news up front, but mostly we have a really cool topic Tuesday.

Car debates, car conclusions, some of your questions. So we're going to dive right

in. Thanks for being with us again. But it's semi-official, Paul. It's semi-official.

What's semi-official?

Well, the GR, yes, the Toyota Supercar, they've been teasing forever. The follow-up

to the Lexus LFA. They have officially said it's called the GR GT. That's what

they're saying it's called.

Fine. I'm fine with that.

You'll listen to this on Tuesday. Supposedly this coming Friday, December 5th,

they're going to do the real reveal. So we will talk about it on next

podcast when we hear what's real. But this is the promotional image that's

out right now. So kind of a moody image with a bunch of logos. But GR GT is the

thing. I agree. So that's where we're going with that. I'm very curious to

actually see more, hear more and also drive this. Plus, of course, we've all

heard the same rumors and that is there's going to be this Toyota

version and a Lexus version. I've been saying forever I'm going to say it

again. There should be a Lexus version of the GR 86. Problem is it would

always get heavier. It would just get heavier. But I think there might

be a market for it. I think different possibly different drivetrain. But I

think there's there's a possibility for that car. Anyway, I do like that Lexus

has motor sports in its history and blood and you know, it's part of the

Lexus brand. I do you like it.

But either way, so this GR GT will have a Lexus equivalent clearly not

called the LFA but called the Lexus something. So we'll see what that is

when it shows up. But it's coming. So there's the teaser on that.

Since you're listening to us, you'll end up shopping for your next

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We have a great topic Tuesday for today from hair in the wind

wrote us an email writing which car models do we believe were

discontinued prematurely just as they were beginning to excel.

We've mentioned this many times what a great car if only they

kept a second generation or if they kept it going. Yep. For

instance here in the wind says the Pontiac Fira was nearly an

American budget supercar. It just simply required an additional

engine. Sure for power just to get out of its own way. Yes. And

that even over the short brief lifespan if you look at the

86's that had the more Ferrari 308 back on them. Those were

really cool. They were finding that car in process and then

they killed it. So like the fee I think it was called the

Fiero GT like the last model that was actually cooler than

the first one. Yeah it was cooler and it's still an

interesting little car. But of course yeah dead in cars

continue to evolve. Yeah. Once it's introduced it rarely stays

the same. They're constantly. Yeah. Once it's in production

they're constantly changing. Another example here is the

Chevy Volt. We've always lamented the death of the

Chevy Volt when it came out. Bolts cool but the Volt was

like this is great range PHEV best of both worlds. Yeah. It

was from long ago now. So also part of the question is

which models have remained in production but arguably should

have been discontinued like the Volkswagen Tauss. He listed

that. Yeah. Her and the wind listed that. So I agree. Volkswagen

Tauss is up to notch one. And when you start with something

really terrible and you keep at it theoretically it can only

get better. But the Volkswagen Tauss is a great example

and I actually have a kind of a longer list. I wonder

top five. See I have I have two lists. I have the

gone too soon list and the stayed too long list. And I knew

I kind of knew that stayed too long would be your wheelhouse.

So I have three. But I had I just had a feeling you because

I was I was having trouble with that list. So I figured you

know what I figured Paul would know better than me. So we've

got gone too soon and stayed too long. I have a I have six

seven cars on my gone too soon list. Oh you do jump right

in. Let's see. Some of these I want to know how much we

overlap actually. Yeah that'll be very interesting. I agree.

So my first is actually I didn't do the Fiero because I had

to list the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky. There's going to

be some overlap on our list. And also the picture that I'm

showing includes the Coupe version which was a really cool

target that they sold very very few of. I don't know the

way to put this. This is GM who only makes big cars who

only makes American style cars trying to make let's be

honest trying to make a Miata competitor which is not

really the same kind of thing. But I have to give them

credit because I think they did eighty eighty five percent of

a Miata on try one. Yes. Imagine imagine if that had stuck

around. So then what's second gen when they actually go

what's working what's not. Let's refine it. I actually

think over time the Saturn Sky is better looking than the

Solstice and it had a little bit better interior. But

this these remain fantastic bargain sports cars if

you're looking for a bargain sports car we had an eight

thousand dollar car piece they they remain defiantly ten

grand and below even if you get the red line or the red line

which is this the version of the sky that's that's turbo and

then that's what it's the GXP Pontiac Solstice. So you

actually you want you want the turbo version but either

way getting that close to the target. I mean it's like

where they hit was the inner round of the target and

didn't quite get bullseye. I mean that's great for

first throw. I mean let's try again for sure. Yes. Well

this falls right in line. Many podcasts ago at least 50

episodes we had talked about the Corvette brand becoming a

three car brand carved off as a separate brand. This would

fit at the low end. Yes. Agreed. The the mini normal

front engine Corvette the FIERRA would be mid level

mid engine just in time to be introduced alongside the

big boy the Stingray and with all the variants of

that. Yeah. Imagine those three cars now in a Corvette

brand. I would have so many sports car offerings. Yes. They

could do so many trim levels of everything in there. Yes. They

would be known for the sports car brand but sadly. No. Yeah.

So Pontiac Solstice Saturn Sky I do have to revisit the

Volt. This is another one of those things that GM does

where I want to I want to go to the EV1. We did it. No

no kill it but but in the 90s in the 90s GM does a

usable workable electric car. That wasn't perfect but

again pretty close to the target and nobody else was

even on the playing field. Yes. And then they kill it. Now

imagine if GM had kept developing the electric

car from the 90s when they released the EV1. The

first Tesla's were more than a decade later. If GM

had kept working it how far ahead would they have

been. The same thing with the Volt. We drove the

first gen of the Volt. We both kind of came away

and this is the second gen I'm showing on screen drove

the first gen of the Volt. We just kind of kept going.

This just works. It's not the most dynamic thing. It's

not the most but it just works. This is the closest

thing to the Chevy Volt now is the hybrid system that

Honda uses. Interesting. And the reality is we prefer

that over the Toyota system. This is a direct drive

electric motor with an on board generator and

sometimes when you need all the power the actual

motor is helping drive the wheels but most of the

time you're being driven by the electric wheels and

the on board motor is just a generator. Trains have

done this for decades. That's every diesel

electric. But the thing is GM made it work. Yeah.

And they made it work well and the first and

second gen were both excellent and then they

went yeah we're going to stop that. Right around

the time that the Bolt came out they said

we're done here. And now I think Honda is

stealing the space because Honda's all Honda's

press of the last three or four years about

their hybrid system been like here's how

we're different and I'm going well yes and I

like it better but you know GM did it right. So

the volt they just walked away did. So that's

another one of the gone too soon. The Honda

element. That's a great shot. That's a great

shot looking right through the thing because

when you open all the doors and lay all the

seats down it's just a box with a box on the

side for you to put stuff in the seats folded

back to show the cargo space that boxy box

it is. This sounds terrible but I have to

say at the Honda element folks are kind of

at a cult. There's a whole thing. There's a

whole thing. If you like the element you really

like the element. It's true. Okay. There are

whole by the way when I'm looking for photos

of this car there are sub sites about how

to make this into your mini camper and the

people that have built out everything behind

the driver's seat and they live in their

Honda element. Of course. Yes. Of course they

do. But the point I'm making here is this

was a success. This was a great design

success. It was still quirky. Think about

the fact that this is this succeeded

everywhere the Aztec failed in design

in execution and people accepting it and

there was nothing else after it. Honda

when we make this really cool thing the

element and all the people that loved it

really loved it and then they're like

yeah we're done now. I was like but here's

the thing it's not a car for me but I

loved it. But when you have a customer

they did it that wants it so much that

they'll they'll be willing to use it

for however long they'll have it and

then upgrade to the next one they

they're just built in customers you

know they will just keep buying them

and some people took them and gave them

a little bit lift and made them an

off-roader I mean these were versatile

yeah and they were really cool and Honda

made one gin and went oh that's enough

of that and I have not met seriously I

have not a single person who bought a

Honda element even if they didn't have

it very long I have not many single

this is anecdotal I realize but a single

person that bought one that doesn't

look back on it fondly across the

board I've never met an owner who's

like yeah I didn't like my element

very much everybody loved them and the

people that still have them they

have embedded themselves you think the

sob people are dug in the ability of

the Honda element folks really are

really dug in so anyway Honda element

gone too soon that's amazing the Ford

Fiesta not necessarily the ST but I'm

showing the last gen of the ST the one

we didn't get but Ford makes no good

small cars and Ford they started with

the Model T the the genesis of Ford is

we make a car for everyone and the

Fiesta was never looked the Fiesta

was never it's so nice in here it's a

cheap car okay it's a cheap car never on

the mood board but it was genuinely good

transportation

available as a two-door hatch and then

they souped it up to make it the ST

which was superb to drive at any price

point

yes so yes make the base version for

people that need car because there's

plenty of those people have just need

car and then make the ST so the Fiesta

ST gone too soon the 135 rear-wheel

drive hatch BMW although we didn't get

that we didn't get America or you my

point here is we should have gotten it

yes they made it in to I think they

actually made it a four-door for a

while too but it but I'm showing the

yes or rear-wheel drive hatchback

version I have a recurring rant that's

going to happen in this so good at

these they're so good

something happened in the last 10-15

years and the general public has been

convinced that rear-wheel drive is

dangerous and scary

mmm all-wheel drive is a thing you have

you have to if you if it's going to rain

once this year you ought to have all-wheel

drive

okay we've convinced the whole general

public that all-wheel drive is the only

safe thing and if you can't have all-wheel

drive dear God don't get rear-wheel

drive right now I want to jump back

to the 50s 60s 70s 80s also it snows

in Germany well I know but my point

is in the US tires were terrible

yeah people were driving predominantly

rear-wheel drive cars and people

survived how did we survive right we

got up hills we got down hills we took

family's places people arrived at

destinations in a snowstorm in a rear

wheel drive car and the tires were

terrible yeah okay but we hit we and

we've all we've all taken this whole

climb in sync or because it leaks its

way into my thinking to him like yeah

there's gonna be a lot of weather for

that person they're gonna you know

well wait I'm gonna stop okay get

proper tires go dry yes so BMW was

unique in the market making a

rear-wheel-drive small hatchback

everybody else is making front-wheel

drive or all-wheel-drive rear-wheel-drive

small hatchback to your point it does

snow in Germany they could sell this

in rear or four all-wheel-drive if they

wanted extra but the point is generate

fire wheel drive is an option which

makes a good dynamics actual usable

hatchback alone in the marketplace

BMW said ah no more first off they

said ah not for the US and they said

ah no more at all that's because they

had the grand capay too serious to

build and and minis to sell yeah

ugly minis to sell and I like the

many but this but this was alone in

the marketplace and very cool where is

the BMW one series gone too soon the

alpha 4c I put this good in the

category of the Pontiac solstice so close

to target and it looks amazing maybe a

clean sheet refresh like start over

but but no keeping but I'm gonna market

and I'm gonna defend it though throw

that one out and it though because

start over if you've watched our

lightweight piece which was alpha

4c Alpine 110 and Elise the

alpha didn't come off well but all

maybe start over we're in stock form

yes tires that they were provided with

etc and I am well aware and all of you

owners have made us well aware I am

well aware that there is stuff after

the way it was released that actually

started to solve the problems we have

with the stock car I'm aware of this

and I know they exist but my point

here is alpha knows to so that means

alpha may worse let's well but but

okay look and I'm being really kind

when I say this let's say alpha ran

out of money and talent to make the car

any better than the one they needed to

sell in the time frame they had so they

just said it's got to go let's say they

did that I've worked on plenty of

movies that reached that place was like

yes we could make this money and

talent if we had three or four more

months with a lot more money we could

make this better but the deadline is

next week so it's got to come out and

here we go okay that's how you know

a project is done when the deadline

arrives yes that's it for most for

most films ever released that is

actually when they're done that means

comes out next Tuesday that happens

anyway so my point here is alpha also

knows the things that have been done to

write this car mm-hmm so if they did a

second gen this is a great-looking car

they did a second gen and they took

the lessons from the first gen and

made a second gen I think this would

be superb and I would love to have it

on the market and this I can't believe

it ever came out and as I said in the

piece this is better than a lot of

sports cars you can buy the problem is

against its direct competitors a 110

at least it's not as good as those so

what's the second gen of the alpha 4c

okay I'll let him keep the chassis maybe

the engine if we can retune the

transmission different transmission I'll

keep the engine powers good I'll let

him keep the chassis if you just keep

the chassis like start up everything

else like reengineer screw new things

to it I have one more that I can't

believe I almost forgot the two-door

Chevy Tahoe and two-door trucks in

general but these these sell for

crazy money now if you have a good one

because people still like these on

auctions and stuff yes people still

like these but you can't get anything

like this it's a big huge 4x4 box with

two great seats in the front and a

fold-down rear part that you fold down

the rear seat which is a bench because

it's two-door yeah you fold on the

back and it's every bit as big as the

folded-down back of a suburban but

it's a smaller footprint overall and

also adjacent to this are things

like the a suzu via cross also a

two-door truck but that's not my

point my point here is these big

body on frame two-door trucks are gone

and kind of like the element there's

not a huge market but the people that

want and need these love them and that's

why they're hanging on the price this

ties into the blazer discussion absolutely

because the blazer is not the blazer

nope the blazer as we as it is offered

now is not a real blazer this is a

that's a blazer yes call it the

blazer I agree it's not the two-door

Tahoe we've brought the blazer back

and it's boxy and this and two-door

and it's just imagine if this had gone

forward then we can compete against Jeep

and Land Rover and Bronco and and scout

that they could reposition themselves

against scout instead of a crazy yeah

lines everywhere futuristic looking that's

not a blazer that's well because they

just made it an SUV for families and

people that couldn't buy a Camaro and

have a family car really but the

thing about this is this is the

activity vehicle for people without

kids and there's a big market for

that I want to call my my kayak or my

bike or I want to haul my my actual

motocross bikes this is a body on frame

big boy but you don't have kids it's you

and whoever you and your significant

other you're going to go out for the

weekend you're going to put all your

camping stuff and you're going to haul

the the jet skis these are awesome for

that and there is a market for it and

that market is now being swallowed up

by things like the Honda passport which

is fine but it's not this yeah so

anyway that's my last one frame oh

this could compete against scout if they

had a boxy I agree that would be

interesting so I will save my I don't

think my stayed too long list is going

to be nearly as good as yours but that

that's my my gone too soon list all right

jumping in with my gone too soon yes

starting off with the Evo 10 oh I like

this how about there's a bit of a

caveat with this okay because this was

around a long time it was the Evo

itself was around a long time your ride

one time built this and then stopped

I acknowledge that yeah yeah but they

were continually getting better and

better and better they were

enthusiast started as a cheap four-door

yeah man yeah yeah and they just screwed

more parts to it and kept getting better

and then Subaru exited the market and

along come the civic type R and the

Hyundai Elantra and this could have

competed against that it could have

kept the Mitsubishi brand alive sure

they sure they could offer a hybrid or

a bev and something like this keep the

Evo alive because if the Evo comes

back and it's an SUV I'm gonna be hacked

well but also if that's true it'll land

in a market where nobody wants it

because it'll be too hardcore for the

people that want an SUV and not correct

for the people that want it to be an

enthusiast car this was small tied into

their rally breeding it it was the

Mitsubishi brand in a car yeah awesome

eclipse aside yeah no no I agree no

this is this is the one yes I toyed

with the ellipse ellipse eclipse

I toyed with that idea thinking this

is back this is much better yes it's still

usable it's a car it would compete

against the M2 imagine the Mitsubishi Evo

against the new M2 they could make a

two-door of it but fine keep it four

door and that is its competitor track

use all-wheel drive sure keep you

right this versus civic type R is

really compelling that's it right here

I want to do right now yes yes this

is the one that should have stayed

that's great moving on to the S2000

which I think there are again two

different generations of this there

were changes enough to make them

distinctly to generations fine but they

just stopped yeah yeah everybody asks

well should I we even have questions

today should the is the S2000 still a

good sort of entry-level fun sports

car yes is the answer yeah for sure

considering an S2000 just like a

Miata yes is the answer they're

great there's yeah all kinds of price

levels there's all kinds of we'll say

build quality or I guess tuning that has

been done to them and finding a stock

one is difficult but if you can find

one drive it it's so much fun you're

like back to basics and it's so good

futuristic start stop on so moving

on to the Stinger mmm I love it I

think just as the Stinger was getting

really good they had the Stinger it's

really cool and it suffered from this

time period that the automotive

industry went through and that is

sedans are going away everybody's

buying SUVs we should paint them silver

and make them five-seat and nameless

and faceless they're indistinguishable

between our competitors for sure it'll

sell it'll make us money hey wall

street or board of directors this is a

better idea than making sweet

hatch I mean where is this in the

market yeah I agree and sedans I think

are kind of people are noticing like

huh sedans are actually cool and

they're usable and they're they're

kind of nice and this could have

competed against the Cadillac black

wing the v-series black wing oh okay

all right I mean hopefully there'll be

another one they're talking about it but

I take your point they're talking about

it but they're only talking about the

five they're only talking about the

c5 black wing fair fair I know it's

also confusing why is there a four

and a five they're two different sizes

why just make one but they're

distinctly different cars but the four

is going away the smaller lighter one

that I think we want keep that

around just as Cadillac is getting

it great GM's like sedan rear-wheel

drive lots of power manual

transmission and f1 team oh by the way

we're killing this car what a great

idea let's let's kill that off it's

good and finally I agree with you

absolutely I found studio photos of the

Pontiac solstice coupe is actually

target target rooftop the subsequent

generations I mean this looks good it

looks good yeah actually kind of still

looks relevant a lot of the surfaces

yep but imagine the C8 styling kind of

this you know an aggressive C7 sure

Corvette on this small chassis but even

if they hadn't gone that aggressive and

they just refined this idea to give it

that that feel it's just this is too bad

that it's gone that is cool it's very

cool that is just small cool I think

it would be usable Jerry to six came

out super came out they'd have

something to compete in that

completely they would yes I actually

have toyed every now and then with

the coupe version of these I think it

would be a try to find one but the

problem is they wait so few and the

engines of the ones you find most the

time of the non-turbo that the cars is

going to be a sad trombone noise the

whole time it's just like it looks

really cool but it's not interesting

enough you find one of these but then

that flip side is you find one of

these in turbo and they're like 30

grand or 40 and it's like I'm not

doing that exactly so that's the trade

off but these are so cool where is

the second gen anyway yeah and I

agree you've already done the Corvette

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all right do you want to jump in with

the state around I should do I should

do stayed too long because I think

your list will be better than mine but

I'm gonna jump in to stay too long

here real quick I have three but I am

starting with a Volkswagen product

and that is the Jetta now there is

frantic typing going on right now on

YouTube for all the people that have

loved their Jettas we have driven the

Jetta we've driven the GLI and I've

never driven a version of this car and

I know you're also still don't like

them you're also writing all the

things you have to do to make it

awesome yes I'm doing I have never

driven a factory stock Jetta product

or a factory stock Jetta GLI and I

thought I am so glad this exists

it's just fine it's fine and

Volkswagen this is its contribution to

that part of the market and I just

it feels like you made a joke once and

I'm gonna steal it from you

thank you let's get a mention where the

Jetta feels like they left the factory

turned on and forgot about it the board

of directors was informed today that

they have a factory building Jettas

we forgot they're just cranking Jettas

out we like where where is that line

I'm I they were so focused on T named

SUVs they forgot the Jetta factory

still running ID smoke like spitting

out cars that's right we've got a

factory making Jetta it's currently

turned on so I mean this is it's fine

but it and I will also admit like many

other cars in the market it ebbs and

flows some generations are better than

others I know that as well okay but in

general it does it feel and then I've

got it in a photo here in front of the

factory they apparently left on it's

just it's just right out I don't even

know where the factory is just that's

my folks I can forgot about it in a

similar vein the Lexus ES oh now

this look I have my mother-in-law

owned an ES loved it I these sold

well okay because this is essentially

the Lexified Camry yeah it is a front

wheel drive platform and that's actually

my reason it should die because I've got

that new one coming I know oh yeah the

new one that looks like this yeah

horrifying yeah it's the new one that's

coming out the new design looks like

something that got x'd off of the

mood board when they designed Tron like

no that just looks weird we're not

doing that that's what the new ES looks

like and the new ES also looks like

it's built on the crown platform which is

this tall mid-size between an actual car

and an SUV but my problem with the ES is

it doesn't fit in the Lexus lineup now

I know they just killed the LS the ES

prior to the new redesign was the

lone front-wheel drive sedan in the

Lexus product lineup mm-hmm the IS is

rear-wheel drive based or all-wheel

drive LS is rear-wheel drive based or

all-wheel drive and then here's the

ES which is it exists entirely to get

people like my mother-in-law who the

camera is not quite nice enough I'd like

a Lexus brand doesn't belong there what

are you doing sweet spot for sales yes

that's I hate how to make money man but

this is what they do with the RX the

RX is the money maker for Lexus and

they have SUVs of all types I think

the ES is an irrelevant car in that

lineup it doesn't belong with everything

else I like that Lexus has made sedans

the IS has been solid the LS has been

solid it's too bad that those are

not continuing but the ES and now it

looks like this weird Tron thing I just

hero car villain car neither I don't know

just car in the background there you are

so there's there's the new ES and I just

I think it's we walked around one of

these at one point and it looks we have

to drive to drive it here's a thing it

looks related to the crown which comes

back to my ES problem why is this an

upscale version of a product you

sell in the Toyota badge stop it

because people say I like the crown do

you have anything more luxurious than

they're willing to pay more exactly

right yes we do so but anyway so there's

that one and then my last one of here

too long is the Chevy Malibu now I wanted

to fend this this I wanted to fend this

choice and explain something here

because but a great Uber my dad loves

GM sedans to this day loves GM sedans

okay he if he has to go on a trip and

he's able to rent a Chevy Malibu it

like makes him happy okay separate

thing but anyway okay okay but but

here's the point I want to make here

I want GM and Ford to make cars I want

them to make cars but I wanted to make

cars that everybody else isn't making

better okay this is a contribution to

the to the sedan market that is already

ruled by the Honda cord and the Toyota

Camry okay which is a full-size

front-wheel-drive chassis four-door

sedan the Malibu is fine but here's

my point they kept the Malibu and they

killed the SS the SS at least is something

that Chevy could do well and nobody else

is doing somewhat awesome to drive high

performance let's kill that exactly

somewhat somewhat good to drive in any

in any spec and and if you got the

right spec was amazing to drive great

engine rear-wheel-drive platform

isn't like everything else on the

road you pull up in an SS next to

a Honda Accord those are not the same

kind of car that's true but they're

roughly the same kind of pricing a

Camry versus an SS what are you buying

you're buying the SS if you care about

driving at all and I'm not saying that

that the Camry and the and the Honda

Accord don't drive well but I'm saying

SS rear-wheel-drive American V8 four

door I'm buying that the Malibu

isn't also ran in a market where they

could have killed the Malibu

continued with the SS and again we're

back to my rant why are we all

believing that rear-wheel-drive is

going to kill us I think that's what's

killed the SS and other cars like it

because well I need front-wheel-drive to

be safe I need front-wheel-drive or all

wheel drive to be safe and the SS is

over here like the crazy drunk guy at

the party apparently because he's rear

wheel drive

it's a great car rear-wheel-drive

matters and it feels good and this is

why we recommend the three series and

the Julia and the G70 yeah

GM could compete in this area if they

kept the SS alive instead of they

kept the Malibu and the SS is dead

they had rental fleets to fill but

clearly that's a great point because

Stellantis over here with SRT chargers

actually killed that and they were

still selling really well even after

11 years in production with all the

Hellcat engines they could have stepped

the SS to be even more and filled in

hey that could be their marketing

campaign

don't have a brand new SRT product

anymore

the chargers gone

hey yeah

GM had their I know I know I know

there's other things at play here

I know there's market forces and

then there's the amount that they

sold I'm sure they sold a lot more

Malibus and SS's I know it's the

Australian plant I get it I know all

the things but I'm just saying

this is such a oh you make one too

whereas the SS is oh you make that

so the Malibu why is it still here

and that's my my

still it with fire

yes please

all right switching over I actually

forgot my runners up to the cars

that should have stuck around

oh

gone too soon I totally agree with

you

the Fiesta ST

yes

here is the three door that we never

got the second gen three door that was

in Europe and we wish had come here

and it's like they they took a really

good one away from us and then

continued on teasing us even more

and all we heard was great things

even better things about this one

got even better guys and well you

can't have it and then they killed

that entirely so yeah

it's bummer a second one here is

the F type I'm not necessarily a

big fan of the F type

but imagine a subsequent generation

this is a it's not really a

generational change it's a facelift

between the the first and well the

second one here but I've always loved

this car every time I drive it it's

better than I remembered it could have

been anything it could have gone

lighter weight and more stripped

down it could it could go you know

more power even more upmarket or

luxury that kind of thing

it could compete against Bentley it

could it could do anything

instead of that we got that new

crazy thing they design yeah with the

new logo imagine this second

generation what could that be there's

so much potential there that's great

but no we threw it away and I was

remiss in not mentioning my own car

because here's the 718 Cayman

the GT4 is shown on screen right here

but the 718 Cayman in general like

it's really good it's as good as it'll

ever get chop regulations are the

are the factor there but I do take

your point I mean cars that are

working and they're talking about

bringing back an engine though

well yes but all we've seen thus far

from spy shots is something that

looks like a bloated Cayman a little

bit bigger

don't go bigger yeah you got it right

the size is really right this was even

slightly bigger than a 987 generation

like keep it 987 and and just keep it

that same size yeah I take styling I

agree upgrade power yep fine but just

the chassis but no gone so I was

remissed him forgot to mention that

but you know here we are keep going

so moving on to the cars that

should die immediately oh controversial

maybe the id buzz I'm showing on screen

my question is what answered is this

what what is the answer what does it

provide an answer to okay yeah yeah I

still don't know and everybody I think

at this point

is kind of over it you see an id buzzing

like hey there's one

hey I finally saw one

huh I don't want one

I really would love to see I mean

well eventually we'll find out what

are the sales numbers for these but

they because I don't think they're

good not hearing good things yeah and

if you're shopping

go out

mm-hmm there's so many mini van choices

why I I can't answer that yeah I mean

you want different but I don't know

that there's enough buyers just buying

different to make it matter it doesn't

tap into the magic of the bus the

original bus it's just we brought it

back and called the buzz and it's

almost like the naming convention

was more clever than the actual

product so moving on to I'm going

to get controversial here yeah you are

because the Camaro is shown on screen

the ZL one and it is an impressive

car but if you think over the years

the Camaro was kept in the market and

it has finally gone away but it's

almost like GM kept forcing it to get

better

it was all right an okay car an okay

chassis it wasn't the most brilliant

car to drive ever

but when you add components and a lot

of power it's forced to get good

yeah inherently it's not the greatest

car ever it's not like you started

with this really great handling you

know great chassis you have to do very

little and you just coaxed all this

greatness out of no we forced it to be

something really great you and I

disagree on this car in general on the

Camaro I think I've always liked it

I'm impressed with this but the ZL one

is like wow but I think to defend

your point though I will say that

GM has fantastic chassis people

great people for chassis setup I

agree that they have struggled

against this is the product I'm

working with instead of being

involved early on in general to make

amazing products that their their

expertise is like a fine tuning

versus a revelation and I feel like the

chassis people have taken a lot of GM

products and been been things like and

the Camaro is a great one handles so

much better than it should and then

we sit around and go what if this

were 75 this size you put the one

le package on anything I bet GM

engineers could get anything in their

portfolio to kind of handle well and

what wow that's impressive but

starting with something great it was

just it was almost designed for rental

fleets from the get-go it's like we

forgot Camaro magic and it was still

too big with the fifth gen it was

still too large it's a nostalgia play

that they kept going it really is but

it never was as much of a nostalgia

play as the charger and challenger that

embraced the size and it almost got a

pass because of it this was still

too big and it it's almost like the

size and the weight worked against

what it could have been

okay all right controversial but I

see why you're there fought itself I

felt like wow what an amazing car but to

to really make the next Camaro really

great which it has to be

you got to start over and that's the

problem I think they're going to start

over and I think they're going to bring

the Camaro name back on something

totally irrelevant and non-camaro-ish

it'll be like the blazer it's gonna be

an SUV exactly right

that's my fear so there's an

opportunity here yeah there is you

killed it

step one and then bring it back with

so if they bring it back and it's a

smaller lighter

mmm they can do something all right

that's not the gm way

anyway

moving on here to the GTR I'm showing a

20 24 Nissan GTR on screen here I

would have known it was a 24 unless I

really thought about the front end

that's my point I know it is I know it

is yeah remember the era in the

middle this car ran along so long

remember the middle era where they

had the chrome v on all of their

products including on this which was

terrible on this not good

so impressive it did its job when it

came out yes it set the world on

notice absolutely Porsche we just went

faster significantly than you around

the ring we set benchmark times beat

the Porsches out of nowhere drag races

for half the price yes at least maybe a

third of the price for some of those

Porsches yeah and the entire community

supercar community gt absolutely just

kind of went okay

we got to step up our game but then

it lasted too long and all of those

car companies soon passed it and it

wasn't interesting to drive it was it

didn't need you you said this we first

drove it one review you mentioned like

the car doesn't really need me it's so

capable not at all I don't need to be

here I'm not impressed I'm not getting

any engagement out of it it will

destroy everything you can name and

I don't want to own it because

there's other cars that are slower

and worse and way more engaging and I

want them more this was an absolute

engineering throw down totally and a

huge success at doing everything on the

build sheet and I remember actually in

an interview one of the initial

engineers of it said his goal was that

his grandmother could get in this car

and drive it yeah pretty close to the

lap time of an actual trained race

driver now they accomplished that why

they accomplished that it is that

good but it comes back to the car

doesn't need you and the thing of

the thing you're not mentioning that

was also a death blow on this is over

it's roughly 15 year life cycle it

started half the price of the Porsche

yes but every year it was more expensive

than the year before and by the time

this actually was done the base models

were like 130 and the Nismo was 200

grand and at that point you've got all

kinds of choice that does the same

kind of stuff this is a great one I

really like this better and make a

very good point here it's stuck

around way too long I'm glad it's

gone fresh clean sheet let's bring

it back but I want them to bring it

back what is the next one of this

can they do that that's exciting it

would be very cool I welcome that

they've got a long runway ahead of them

for this car yeah yeah but it lasted

way too long if I am going to all the

cyber trucks on here I mean this should

should die immediately but it but

hang on the cyber truck is actually

related to the GTR in this discussion

okay an engineering accomplishment

an engineering for it and we did

everything it said on the list we

needed to do it we did it all

that's a great point but then and

this hasn't even shorter life cycle

than the GTR the GTR did let me the GTR

was the world's on notice for four or

five years but then after that too

expensive and why is it still here yes

they should have killed there and

brought it back because everybody caught

up and passed it and that was their

opportunity right there but do that

again the cyber truck comes out and we

all went wow very impressive

engineering don't want one and then

they haven't been a success and I

I really wonder how long Tesla is

going to make these well here's my

point

what is the second generation of a

cyber truck what does that look like

yeah the same thing yeah there's can't

make an alt yeah there's no more angles

to add or subtract interesting yeah to

make it very clearly visible for the

second gen like oh there's the new

generation of the cyber it looks the

same because probably all the changes

would be underneath it would be in tech

and battery pack and range and power

and anything or yeah maybe actually

just build it at a quality level and

make it so the 10th recall there's

not an 11th recall or something like

that I'm I'm joking but yeah but you're

making me wonder though the second

generation of that is what and I'm going

to follow that for a second and wonder

this because you're right but now in the

mind of all of us this is what a

cyber truck looks like what I wonder

and I'm purely theorizing here because

this looks like nothing else sold

before hopefully sold sense could they

decide that that's what the cyber

truck brand is meaning that the next

cyber truck looks nothing at all like

this looks like a rivian like what could

they do another cyber truck that looks

nothing like this because this didn't

need to look like anything anyway but the

problem is if the others if the next

cyber truck doesn't look anything like

this but looks anything close to

something else it hasn't been weird

enough

mm-hmm I it's a tough spot I take your

spot to be in so either keep making

them as long as you possibly can

or kill it I vote for killing it sooner

rather than later

okay I got the Hummer EV on here as well

we've had this cyber truck Hummer EV

discussion recently about how what's

going on here yeah if I've got the

cyber truck on there the EV Hummer

has to be on here too I GM has embraced

the brand as being too heavy and too big

and that's the whole selling point

and yeah fair fair fair yeah which is

the which is the Hummer ethos I take

that point watch your freedom buddy I

just am not convinced and you know

what I don't think the sales numbers

are convincing either

so the Hummer EV I don't necessarily

have everything against it

except it was just too heavy it's too

big too heavy

road crushing kind of you can crab walk

and press the WTF but I am those are

the sales things right yeah

switching my mind and like I said if

I uh if I have the Camaro on here

I've also got to have the Mustang

on here interesting yeah that's

controversial but keep going well

what is for do next for the next

Mustang okay all right yeah make it

heavier

we're gonna make a bigger heavier Mustang

didn't we do that already

yeah both of those categories do we

make it slightly larger do we make it

what do we do for the next Mustang

it's just interesting yeah yet another

reskin another long hood

coupe shape kind of fine interesting

okay it's just the next Mustang

what what does for do here

so if the Camaro is dead I think the

Mustang like this with the GTD shown

on screen this is the pinnacle of

everything Mustang we've done it everyone

the GT is GTD is the end

okay stop it's killed for a few years

and then we bring it back as we've

rethought of you know what Mustang is

what do we want out of our racing

programs

what do we want to do here and it's

got to be smaller lighter it's got to

be more interesting engaging

because for sports cars

Mustang is not a brand that goes

bigger heavier GT luxury car fair

point you can't go that direction yeah

true the only direction is smaller

lighter and more sports car more fun

more engaging you could argue

powertrains you could argue yeah yeah

for sure fully EV hybrid of some sort

keep the v8 around but the new

eighth generation Mustang

ah well and the problem is below the

GTD when we've driven the current

Mustang

it wasn't as good as the one before

no i didn't like it as much so i'm very

very excited to drive the GTD

genuinely i am too but the the dark

horse we found quite disappointing and

very expensive

but here's this GTD what do you do

above the GTD you can't a 350 000

Mustang you're right i'm sorry what

yeah exactly you're totally right

yep you're right if i'm going to be

very fair i must also include the

9 11

whoa whoa i've just i this sounds

like something i would do if you've

done it i i astonished keep going i

want you to land this podcast episode

1001 when we talked about the Porsche

problem

Porsche cannot go bigger or heavier

with the next generation of the 9 11

mm-hmm bigger than this for 9 11

you're right does that make any sense

heavier than this really is that so

keeping it the same well we've just

fussed over details keeping at the

same size let's say it's same size

for next gen

we've just fussed over headlight shapes

and intakes and grills we've just fussed

over that kind of stuff because we

couldn't make it really any bigger the

shape isn't really going to change too

much

so to make it interesting and to reset

Porsche's meter reset the 9 11

hey everybody

this would give the marketing team

fuel

okay we've gone down to the 997 size

we've gone smaller lighter

more tech better arrow it's even

faster than before because

if it's if this gets heavier with some

sort of hybrid tech in it i mean yeah

not t-hybrid but conventional hybrid

tech

it's only gonna get heavier yeah for

sure i mean they've again

made this so great

to make it

better for the next one wow okay it's

got to be killed off

made smaller rethought because there's

only one chassis this is it's the 9

11 chassis it's shared with nothing

else yep yep

so what do they do

Porsche 1000 sorry episode 1001 the

Porsche problem

make it smaller make it interesting

reset themselves and then you've got

stuff to talk about hey we crammed even

more tech and with smaller lighter

package and well that's news

yeah it's better to drive yeah more

aerodynamically efficient even

better than before all of those

things

you can't go bigger than this you

cannot make a bigger 9 11 than this

sir i don't disagree with you

i don't disagree this is controversial

but i do not disagree with you yeah

can't get heavier it shouldn't get

heavier if it gets heavier why

87 percent size 87 wow 92 percent the

size of this it's like oh now that's

interesting again yeah yeah there's

still plenty of interior space it's

still

got the roof shape for fitting a helmet

for plenty of space for people yeah

yeah the base career look at this

price i'm seeing the price starts at

130 to 2000 dollars for a base you

haven't touched and you will never

find one for that price because

they always have a few boxes checked

which means this is a hundred and

forty to a hundred and fifty thousand

dollar base model for Carrera new

Cayman smaller new 9 11 smaller

because then if you need to grow and

you grow again for subsequent

generations we've gone small again for

whatever reason because of technology

then you're still not you can always

claim we still didn't get bigger than

the 992.2 generation it's a big car

now it's a big car

i say all of this if i had one of

these i would happily drive it if i

yeah only one night it would be an

amazing car it'd be lots of fun you are

a huge Porsche fan for sure

absolutely i'm just i have your best

interest in mind Porsche here i'm

trying to look out for you because

you can't go bigger you can't yeah if

you went bigger everybody'd be like

what are you

what are we doing now is is this a new

tycon is well a joke i hate to say

this but from some angles when i see a

Carrera especially at night i see a

current 992 especially driving at night

it can be mistaken for a tycon or

even a Panamera depending upon the

angle because they've gotten big and

the front ends and the tail lights look

similar those cars

so it's not like you know i mean you

know a caiman right away is a smaller

car

yes but the 911 is big shrink it down

and i say this with with love with

respect you say this is the guy that

really would buy the Porsche toaster

i mean you really are that guy i

probably would buy the Porsche toaster

yeah

again but not a bigger 911 toaster

yes bigger 911 no right out how many

times do we have to say this i don't know

it's not they sink in to make it we'll see

to see if it really influence yeah out of

love out of admiration out of respect

if i had even one of these 992.2s i

would happily drive and take it i would

i would is this the end of your list

this is the end of my list i just

ended on 911s i had to and

good Porsche rant i really like it

well done

bravo

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2025 is coming to a close but we

aren't quite done yet on driving

we have a few things happening

still

paul and i will be at the season

closer year in for california but

also for the company at large

we will be at thunder hill for the

three mile on saturday and the five

mile on sunday that is december 13th

and sunday the 14th

we'd love to see you there we've got

lots of other extra things going on

and just attract a

we'd love to i mean if you're there

and you see us please come say hello

because we would love to have a

conversation we also are doing

pre buys for next year kind of

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pre buys for next year for hooked on

driving are happening

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so that is coming real quick we're

actually calling that the pre grid

discount which is very cool

excited about that and we are

continuing to mention the only

adventure for next year that has a

solid date so far there's more coming

but spain and portugal

april 24th to 29th 2026 that's the

circuit to civilla that's in

civill spain which is really cool

then an actual tourist day in civill

spain then two days in portamount

portugal including

time on that racetrack there

so it's a really good thing to bring

your spouse to we're going to have

a nice group it's going to be

really cool it's going to be a small

intimate group but it's going to be

a great few days

we'd love to have you there

keep in mind we do have

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have a utah adventure another us

adventure thank you we are also going to

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we think it's the back half of the

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can't quite give you dates yet

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looking forward to seeing you at the

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all righty a couple of great

card debates are coming at you now

we're going to begin with nugget

and monica who we've talked about

before monica wrote in

if you've watched any of our coda

piece for example our big coda series

six uh episodes of driving different

fans cars every day in the gt car day

we drove a ferrari portofino that is

owned by nugget and monica they have a

series of very cool cars they're very

generous with their cars they come on

a lot of the adventures and they and

they love to trade cars that they're

they're wonderful people to be a part

of our community

by the way if you want to be a

supporter of what we do

the best way to support we do is

patreon and that gets you on our

discord community and that's where

you meet great people like nugget

monica and a bunch of others

there's trips that happen you and i don't

even know about till they're done

i don't get together they get their car

it's awesome so it's a great community

there on our discord for everyday

driver

we have actually heard from some people

that that is the one car community

they stay connected to

because pretty amazing really hard no

ego no toxicity this is a really

welcoming community so if you want to

be a part of the discord community

it's patreon.com you can find

everyday driver on there you can link

from our website

we'd love to have your support

there's different benefits at

different levels

some stuff is changing there but we

value those people so much so monica

wrote in because

she had a part of their garage i didn't

expect us

to be talking about

i had gotten into a private

conversation with her just she had

mentioned this a little bit

and monica thank you so much for

writing

yeah both of you guys is just

it's so great to have you as part of

our community and all of you guys

listening watching we love meeting new

people and having

you know adding to our numbers and

adding people who want to want to

be with us so

really appreciate it when you do

have a debate

you know where to write

monica says it might be time to move

away from their current cayenne

it's a 2015 cayenne diesel with about

65 000 miles

natural leather interior air suspension

it's a nice little truck

so who wants to buy a 2015 cayenne

diesel 65 000 miles

that's been well taken care of they're

good cars for sure yeah

monica nugget are looking for a car

to ferry around a group of them

when their friends are visiting and

to take them to and from austin for

the many events they do there

they're in texas san antonio area

and so austin's not too far but it is a

bit of a drive

the first role needs to be back seats

that are great for adults

she's looking for an executive sedan

got it something with comfort and

luxury

this second role needs good driver

assist features

the more advanced the better

think rural highways at night and

dodging deer because that is a thing

in texas

they would like to consider an e v

in part because they've got solar

panels

and in part because they haven't had

one yet

and they want a new drivetrain

experience

she said that would be great

a round trip to their furthest

frequent destination is 195 miles

and she gets rain range anxiety but

cold weather is not a concern

in texas well so that means a

minimum of 200 miles of actual

usable range but at this point

that's actually pretty likely anyway

she mentions drivetrain types

and gaining new experiences so she

said

any other drivetrain type they

haven't had before would be good

like hybrids rotaries

american v8s

five cylinders or 10 plus cylinders

she's pretty open to this

but for this car they're more

concerned about making backseat

passengers happy

than driving fun

they already had the fun driving

cars

yes

but they're hoping the car will

match or be better than this

cayenne for the back seat cargo

space should be good enough for

picking people up from the airport

if they want driving fun they'll

take more cars they'll take

multiple fun cars

other cars for that this is

this is i mean she called it an

executive sedan this is

a people hauler it's either

pick you up from the airport or

let's all go to dinner this is

the four of us are very comfortable

where we're about to go

yeah this is this is good i've got

some pretty strong choices hopefully

i've got a few i've got some weird

choices

she said she also wants

apple car play it's required there

there could be other ways to the

aftermarket but they really want

apple car play so

gm is out oh sorry but they and

then they're they're concerned

about electrics in one area i

thought that was interesting she

brought this up

there's a lot of electric brands now

but that whole market is shaking

out their concern with electrics is

if they buy an electric will that

brand be around in a few years

when they need to resell it get

something fixed service whatever so

that's on their radar

one of the things she's looking at

is the tycon four cross teresmo

which is a great looking car

beautiful she's looking at it but

i'm actually going to dive in right

there because monica i i i hate

to say this to you i hate to say it

but i have to say it

the tycon is right out your first

requirement is back seats

the tycon has bad back seats it's too

small the panamera cross teresmo

was not sold anymore this comes in

e hybrid i think you want this more

than you want them to i want one very

badly but that's a separate thing

the the the thing is that i want this

because this is the thing that would

get my wife out of a cayenne into a

car is one of these that's why i

want it so much i can't afford one

but this is the car that actually get

her out and into a wagon like yes

please but the problem is they didn't

make these for very long so you're only

buying them used but that puts them in

your budget because you're looking

around 100 grand is is is roughly you

haven't given us a hard budget but

based on the things you've listed

that's what we're talking about

these are out there for that budget

around a hundred thousand dollars

they're available like crazy you can

get them in e hybrid which is a

type of drivetrain you haven't had

that's true yeah and the whole

purpose of the panamera the whole

reason it looked as bad as it did

in the first gen is because one of the

boxes they had to check was four six

footers in the car at once true true

and so it has generous back seats the

tycon is smaller and you could argue

cooler but it's not big enough

it's just not that in fact i'm not

even sure that the tycon has the same

backseat space as the mccon let alone

the cayenne this is four six footers

and luggage so if you're gonna go

portia it's got to be this i have two

other thoughts for you but this is the

one in portia land okay i'm going to

keep jumping though because i'm trying

to find you new different experiences

and that executive sedan good driving

suite good technology made me go one

place the genesis g90 okay this is on

my list too that the full full admission

look a loaded version of these is just

over a hundred grand like 120 i want

to say if you like load it out yeah

this is not that much there they're 105

on the website i guess that's true they're

not close to that much because because you

can get them below a hundred to start

brand new yeah you just start putting

stuff fully loaded ones so 105 once and

this is the car we hope they actually

do the wing back and make the the

awesome oh that awesome wagon we were

talking about last time but but this

is all the technology superb back

seats but this is one of those cars

where you could almost buy it just

for the backseat experience it has all

the tech i think they should they should

i would fight people will fight to be in

the backseat on this car i've told you

this story before the first time we had

one of these is a press car i got my

wife in it and she was like what is

this thing and she was fascinated so we

went we wanted a door close yeah i took

her i took her to dinner we went on

to date we were about 25 minutes from

home okay and on the way back she's

like i'm gonna ride in the backseat

it's like okay cool so i'm chauffeuring

my wife now she's riding in the back

seat she got super comfortable because

she's short enough she could put the whole

leg rest out and everything we were

two-thirds of the way home and she said

could you keep driving for a bit so i

just did like an extra 15 minutes well

my wife just sat at the back would

chauffeur it around i mean these are

awesome for what you guys need they're

great so the genesis g90 and then i

have one more that i actually think

of these choices because i like all

three of these choices very much i

think you'd be very happy guys but

my favorite for you is my third the

lucid air

okay now good these start about 70 grand

loaded they're like 200 yeah you don't need

the 200 monster you all of these have

over 400 miles of range you need 200 this

has 400 miles of range you could decide

how you want it to be specced color

interior this is the opposite of tesla

in interior experience this is a luxury

car on the interior forget what the

drivetrain is this is just a luxury

place to be fantastic space front and

rear wonderful materials this is a

superb car to be in then it happens to

be an electric car so you get the

electric experience you can charge it

at home i think every usage you ever

have for it you'll have plenty of range

watch our ice cream run piece we did

with the griot spoils but little over a

year ago i was driving this and it

astonished all of us with its range

this is so usable and great now let me

speak to your fear your fear is we

buy an electric car and the brand won't

be around with tesla that's less of a

concern with everybody else it's kind of

a it's a little bit of a dice roll we

should buy from gm okay yes but it's a

game might be around but not make that

car anymore i mean that's the the

precipice we're on here it's a great

point lucid's interesting because love

this or hate this the fact is this is

backed by saudi money yep and the

reason the Saudis are backing it is

because they want to diversify beyond

just we sell oil so whether this is

successful or not and i think as a

car it's wildly successful whether it's

successful or not i don't mean sales i

mean that it's a success in execution

yes okay whether it's successful or not

whether it makes sense or not or it

keeps bleeding cash for the Saudis they

have a interest in continuing the

company just you could say that just an

interest of it yeah okay there's

nobody standing behind rivian for

example who i like i like their stuff

but there's nobody standing behind

rivian who it's to their objects

benefit to keep rivian going there

isn't the saudi money behind this

needs this to perpetuate and i guess

folks wagon is a little bit behind

rivian kind of but it's a but it's an

offshoot that's them absorb i'm talking

rivian will go like that rivian itself

stand alone there's nobody standing

behind it that has to keep it going

because it looks good for them yeah

there's a benefit to lucid surviving and

the nice thing is they make a great

product a genuinely really good car so i

think this is your answer new

experience great executive sedan

all electric i like all three of my

choices but my lucid's the favorite

i'm going to start right there because

i'm in full agreement with you and lucid

is at the top of my list i actually

found a 2022 fully loaded lucid air it's

not a sapphire but it's fully loaded

lucid air at park place ltd in belview

washington for just under seventy

thousand dollars with fourteen thousand

miles on them they've come down a

lot i was looking at him too crazy

that could be a great buy yes i

spend well almost half of what your

original budget is and the back seats

although there are cars more luxurious

yes the back seats could be a great

place to be and definitely seek out

videos for autonomous driving and the

levels of the lucid where where that

breaks down and where that fits for

your needs because we're not going to

go into you know here's a here's

something better to just fall asleep

the people in car can just fall

asleep after coming home from a

concert and that's not what it's for

still have to drive all of these cars

on my list too is the genesis g90 because

this is the level two assist that does

include center lane keep assist and the

distance control through the the smart

cruise control and it's not full hands

free it's a it's a little bit of

hands-free for about up to maybe

30 seconds or so and i've tried it out

and it's okay but all of these have

got good sensors and great lights

which is going to help on those

back roads they do yeah but check out

the back seats on the genesis you're

going to have fights uh-huh for sure i

that's where i want to be one of you

here's a thing if you only have two of

you one of you is going to drive and

there's going to be like i'm going to

sit in the back yes yeah the power

door closing look at the power seats

it is just superb and again the

driving assist is decent but you're

still going to have to drive it but

it's of course the entire point of

it is to reduce driver stress and

fatigue so that is a very good thing

genesis g90 is very much at the top of

my list as well but there are some

different choices here to start

considering and that is the 2025

Cadillac Escalade IQ the Escalade

Eek Escalade Eek there is the Escalade

IQ L now as well Cadillac is very

adamant about making the back seat

the first class experience just like

the front seats are for sure okay so

they have the pillar to pillar 55

inch screen all the way across the

dash this has the ultium battery

technology that the Hummer and the

Silverado EVs use so they're claiming

Cadillac estimated 465 miles of range

but imagine this smart cruise on one of

these and the reason i'm suggesting an

SUV is just simply because it's not

about the driving it's about the

space of course and everybody's

relaxed and happy and comfortable

so here is that back seat this is an

image right off of Cadillac's website

as well

that looks like a place i want to be

yes it is nice for sure imagine you're

coming home from a great night out a

concert wherever you're coming home and

you've got a bit of a drive ahead of

you

you've got an entertainment you can

fall asleep and the super cruise i

would say is maybe on the level of the

Hyundai system right now there's still

it's not full self-driving full hands

in some situations it competes with

Tesla but it's much more geofence

than the Tesla system yes exactly you

have to be on approved roads

certainly but i actually suggest this

because of deer you mentioned deer and

this is a tall front end

sure rather than a lower car i see that

just simply defending here the fully

loaded version of the this starts at

one hundred and forty eight thousand

dollars so a slim forty eight thousand

above your hundred thousand dollar

budget

just a poll done it again everybody

there we go yes 48 grand above that

love it but i think this could be

actually a really interesting viable

option and Cadillac that IQ so it's

really the EV Escalade yes EV Suburban

Escalade Eek Escalade Eek so gotta grab it

think that could be interesting i went

digging i'll wait for the laughter to

subside yeah i am surprised you went

here with the Mercedes

i originally was thinking because

Mercedes has admitted this was not a

sales success and they thought no

we're gonna change this the naming

convention was bad nobody like the

styling i thought these were going to be

cheap

they're not really the eqs value they're

holding value i am a star hanging

they're right at about a hundred grand

i am surprised with mileage but again i

thought all right EV different

manufacturer i they don't have Mercedes

so

you know this screen on the inside

here Mercedes also admitted that a

giant screen doesn't necessarily mean

it's luxury yes which i appreciate

them finally coming to terms with

that but it's still a Mercedes it's

still the EV s-class and still a lot of

engineering going on here yes quite a

lovely place to be front or back seat

quite nice and again i i thought man the

prices are surely going to be down on

this but not really but it's actually

worth a drive just simply to have this

as a benchmark okay when you're

shopping for lucid i thought you know

what this was Mercedes first stab at

this market go shop lucid and then

compare the two because still fast

powerful comfortable quiet all of those

things but the styling may not be for

you and the price may not be for you

so again here's that screen i mean

it's very entertaining and interesting

and there's a there's some to like here

yeah it's yeah it's the system behind

it is actually very good the actual

interface system is excellent yeah

exactly a lot of screen going on yeah

exactly right but if we're gonna spend

a hundred grand whoa we know monica

nugget are drivers true enthusiast

they're sure racers mm-hmm so i thought

what a great opportunity to get the aisle

of man green m5 touring shown on screen

the new bmw 717 horsepower wagon yeah

what a great thing to now it also looks

like that i'm sorry what a great thing

to own i mean okay it's it might not

be looking forward to driving one

everyone but i think this is really

cool really interesting the back seats

might not be as spacious well i i guess

i guarantee you they're not going to be

as spacious nice than other things yes

but you've got a sweet bmw wagon and who

doesn't want to go for a drive in this

it's going to be very fast comfortable

powerful i mean just think of the

you can obliterate the deer

i'm sorry i'm gonna think about that

yeah but just think autobahn thinking

behind this bad boy lots to like here

sure not a whole lot of autonomous

or more hands-free kind of driving

here but they are driver enthusiasts

and so i thought that would be kind of

interesting but they are already cayenne

owners and i put this out there is the

super weird outlier the new cayenne ev

has a 13 centimeter longer wheelbase

than the old one and the back door is

noticeably longer than it was

it's noticeably longer we don't know

anything about the hands-free driving

capability quite yet what the system

will be

or you know the range necessarily but

we know it's gonna be quite good and

they're already cayenne enthusiasts

this is brand new fair maybe worth a look

just simply because like i said they're

like porches they've got a cayenne maybe

a straight-up upgrade

and uh surely that diesel would be

still worth a good amount

and go for the new cayenne because

there's some towing involved that

escalate iq can tow 8 000 pounds and

it really that's good this is up there

too so yeah yeah you know maybe that

could be a consideration but i want to

drive this kind but i just we talked

before i just don't know man i just

it should be a bit bigger back seat

space but it's not going to be nearly

as luxurious as the lucid the genesis

even the mercedes eqs but uh but still

might be worth a consideration and

probably plenty of space so

thank you guys for writing yeah for sure

really appreciate it and if you've

got a debate like monica nuggets if

you want me to blow out your budget

and yeah

paul's here for you he is here for

you i can help everyday driver tv at

gmail.com

i like the contrast of these two

debates we have because allison bill

have been listening for a while

and they are not looking for anything

at all like monica nugget and they

also aren't patrons the point i want to

make here is

we want you guys involved with the

show it doesn't matter if you're a

patron or not a patron we want to get

your emails we want to go through your

car to base we want to see your

questions

we want to have

easy access to this show as involved

as you'd like to get we appreciate it

but it's not like this is a podcast

for todd and paul and our friends

yes this is true if we've never

met you please write in please say

hi we want to hear from you we

read every single email that we get

every email even if we don't respond

we have read it so i want you guys to

i'm glad you touched on that because

yes people have written to us and

they're starting to write to us more i

want to try to acknowledge everybody

is is the goal here and we

apologize if we can't get to your

debate

but uh you've hopefully heard about uh

enough debates now you start to

think like we would it's very fun

yeah and uh but we we still love

having the debate so

alice and bill are in uh lewis

delaware and they're writing in

because bill is 77 and she is 67

they have a 2021 ford mock e and a 2022

kia telluride very recent cars and

they're enjoying

they like the electric car that mock e

for just running around but they don't

take trips in it they're very active

so they need i love this the telluride

for camping tinting biking gear for

riding and touring i love that so the

telluride is staying the one on the

chopping block potentially is the ford

mock e and somewhere recently we have

infected their thinking because our

discussion about fun cars versus suvs

have made them think

huh should we get a smaller lighter an

actual more driver's car as our second

car

get rid of the mock e get something

like that

but their question

alice's question is are we just too

old

because the height is a thing

they actually toured a 911 and they

concluded it was too low and too

hard to get in and out of

so they actually want some height

to ease the process i have joked

before that many suvs are sold on the

premise that you've just stopped walking

you're just bad you're at walking height

you open the door now you're sitting

there's there's no chain it's so funny

okay and i understand there's a lot of

people in the market for that look i

don't load us a lease i'm on the other

end of the spectrum as far as cars

hard to get in and out of

and there are days i'm telling you i

roll out of the alice going how long

am i going to get do this

what's the time would buy body just

goes you know we're done

i'm sorry i love you but i like this

car but we're done okay name low

it's low crazy so i i do understand

look i know what you're talking about

is a thing i know this is why suv sell

and so they're concerned about back

issues she said that bill hangs on like

crazy and just braces his back when

she's driving the Mustang so

apparently alice kind of hoon's a bit

they test drove a 2025 honda civic

sport touring hatchback and the 2022

bmw 228 grand coupé that's the worst

of the two series separate thing

they thought they were definitely more

fun and engaging than the mustang

monkey because again they're smaller

and lighter but more difficult to get

in and out of so maybe still lower

than they want so this has them

looking at performance suv's they're

talking about the genesis gv 70 the

mcconn the mercedes gla 250 the

bmw x1 or x2 you guys have been

listening yeah that's the right list

the Mustang is probably going to get

sold they don't want a cvt

they're fine with automatics

they're okay with hybrid but that's

not a requirement so maybe around

$40,000 what they get out of the

Mustang and the money they can bring

they're very excited about this i i'm

going to try to get you into a car

but your list of suv's is excellent

i think it's very good yeah you want this

well they've driven quite a lot here

the the stuff they're looking at

still in their test drive list is the

kia k4 the k5 genesis gv 70 which

is great same size about as the

mcconn mercedes gla 250 is in

there bmw x1 and x2

that's great yeah it's an excellent

list for test drive yes we're going to

add to that

they'd prefer automatic alice would

prefer automatic and no cvt and she

likes the idea of a hybrid but not a

deal breaker and again yeah about a

perimeter of $40,000

alice and bill i just i have to thank

you for writing in

i'm so glad you're enthusiast and

you're active and you're asking if

you're too old for a fun car

no adamantly you are not

because i hopefully you've heard the

story about my grandfather who bought

an rx 400 lexus when he was 98 and he

bought the six year extended warranty

if that is not optimism

i don't know what is i agree

my grandfather is one of my heroes he

was just incredible influence in my

life and a lot of love and respect for

him

but of course there's also paul newman

who drove until he was 80 and he was

kicking everybody's butt on track so you

know it's good stuff yeah i think i've

got your car

but i'm going to start with an option

and you'll notice both brands that i

suggest

have the best seats starting off with the

third generation 2017 to 2024

bmw x3 m40 i it's a very good vehicle

yes you could get the m50 but that m40 i

just thinks super engine that's a

sports car and it's got gobs of power

it's very fast very fun to drive

pretty engaging for an suv and it's

still a bmw

yeah it's actually really good this

could be a great choice for you guys

it's good it's very good

but i you know i knowledge you've

got to tell you right i mean that's kind

of a camping car but i'm just

i'm trying alice to appeal to your

sporty driving

and when you know bill needs to hang on

this has decent

grips got good handles yep i agree with

that yeah it's okay

but i think i've got your car i think

i've got the one car oh really okay i

love it please

here it is oh the volvo xc 60 t8

recharge phv black edition

it is a phv get the one with all the

words the most words possible yeah

just look for the one with all the

words

now new they're out of your budget but

2024s are $40,000 and under all of

them on autotempest they're all $40,000

is so much car for that money

it's a hybrid

it's surprisingly got good steering

response and feel it does the seats

are superb it's a luxury interior

it's not too high it's not too low

mm look at the interior look at the

seats seats are great

the 2024s it's not too old either you

can still find them with fairly low

miles so they're still new enough

i think this is it the volvo xc 60

blah blah blah with all the stuff

all the modifiers every one of them

just one they're all of it and they're

all words too it's not like we have

a couple like words are tacked on

it's the the minronies like save

how could these people do this to

me yeah anyway yeah you'll never get

to tell anybody at cars and

copy what your cars is like just

fall it's just a volvo done

so what i'm showing on screen is the

interior with that or for swedish crystal

knob the start stop switch is right

down here on the center console

the ip has changed for the 2026 model

it doesn't quite look like this but the

screen is still integrated still very

nice it's still mostly the theme

that you're seeing here on screen

but i think this is the car because

it appeals to the luxury side it's

still within budget just slightly

used yeah fun to drive alice i mean this

thing's got power

it's got more power than the x3 this

thing is 450 horsepower or so

it's a rocket off the line rising the

good performance wise yeah it is your

sports car that's an suv that's a

hybrid it's luxury not too low

this is the one this is the one

alice bill welcome to your xc 60

all the words all the words and let us

know what color you decide upon happy

shopping auto tempest dot com slash

every day let us yeah send photos you've

done well

this is it this is it i i can't argue

with the reasons you guys have listed

performance suvs it's great looking i mean

this is the new one so it's got updated

styling but the 2024s look pretty much

just like this so i can't argue with

your choices either polka's you don't

really really i hadn't thought about that

vulva and the fact that they're that

cheap that is such a bargain for that

they're like a lot 40 and then they

go to 39 38 37 39 that's incredible

i really that's a great choice done

bill alice i'm going to put this out to

you just just

embrace the following i understand that

you've got two suvs and you're worried

about getting in and out of stuff

handles on most these cars are good

yeah okay and the reality is if you want

a better driving experience you have to

get lower

you just have to

okay true the reality is the suvs no

matter how good they are seriously

totally straps handles totally no matter

how good they are the reality is

the higher you get

your center gravity coming up and the

more weight and the bigger

the worse something drives even if it

defies physics at best it can at some

point you just go yeah this is big

okay so if you're wanting a more fun

driving experience

i really want to encourage you to

get out of an suv

so what i'm looking for for you is

performance sedans

okay that have what i would describe

as a middle ride height

they're not now the crown is the

one that like i'm not recommending the

crown the crown is trying to be both

the crown is like a lifted sedan which

looks weird

and the whole purpose of the crown is

exactly what you're talking about

people that want a sedan but they want

an suv style

seat height that's what it's for

cross track buyers every time i get out

of it i put my foot down

and my foot hovers like three or four

inches above the ground because that's

where the ground should be and then i

go oh it's down here

that's what it's for

but but i'm going to get you into an

actual sedan now i'm going to go

from

the one that i i i put it up there

because i have to

but i think it probably is the least

good match for you and that is

the alpha julia doesn't need to be the

quadrifoglio

but the alpha julia is great looking it

is wonderful handling i'm showing it

in green i'm happy to show the

quadrifoglio in green it's just so

great looking

in some italian uh

can you imagine their neighbors

alice phil what did you do

sexy italian car in your driveway

the four cylinder on this is going

to be plenty for you guys i mean

the quadrifoglio is great i think

the quadrifoglio is down to 40 grand

you could go nuts are they

genuinely

what kind of mileage are we talking

but you can find them

i don't know that i'm going to rush out

and get but you can find are they like

road hard put away like ground into the

just step carefully is all i'm saying

but with 40 grand you could not spend

close to your budget and get one of

these with the four cylinder these are

wonderful to drive

now i will admit this has a slightly

smaller door opening than the other

ones i'm going to discuss

and a little more aggressive seats so

this is probably the most likely to

get tossed out but if i'm going to

talk about mid-sized sedans i got to

bring it up

but i actually think seats wise this

might not work

but the rest of them here i think really

would

the three series bmw

it's because look at the best seats in

the business yeah what's what's your

era what generation are you looking

for what do you like in specs

the three series has been around forever

it is superb

and i actually even thought all the

way back to the e90 the big v8

that we love

that is a surprisingly high seating

position

that big e90 forced four door

it's got it's not like a low slung car

and it's phenomenal to drive

and it's significantly lower than an suv

but it's not like this is a difficult car

to get in and out of it's thirsty

it is thirsty

but i'm just saying three series has

got like a normal ride height i think

it's very straightforward to get in and

out of

the kia stinger that's good that just

it's so good kia stinger gt is a

phenomenal car good seats right sized

excellent chassis yeah i think you

would really enjoy this car definitely

look at a kia stinger gt

and as i continue the chevy ss

okay the chevy ss 40 grand you can get

the perfect one

you want automatic the reality is the

ones that are too expensive if you want

to argue that

are the manuals you want an auto

this is a big american v8

fantastic chassis drives wonderfully

has a normal full-size sedan ride

height

but then rides wonderfully

get the magnum ride suspension you

definitely have to get that but chevy

ss works all day long here and i

really want you guys to get into a

sedan and discover

sedan dynamics

bill will be strapping into this car

it's like hanging on because

alice is going to tear down the road

rub it her hands together already

tear down the road of the ss

that's one of my very favorites but i

would be remiss if i didn't include one

more

okay you guys already have an electric

you like as a runabout you're

looking for performance dynamics

etc model three performance needs to

be on the list

i think you go out and find a used

one of these well within your

budget you stay electric

you've got a little bit less ride height

these drive very well

it has performance beyond your maki

it is lower than your maki

but you stay electric

and you get performance

personally this is not my favorite of

the list

but for you guys i think it might be

perfect these drive very well

they do they do they're so yeah

they're different i mean she's used

to the maki already that's driving

model okay here's the thing i feel

like this is a big omission if i

don't say it

okay model three performance maki

might be the answer now the thing you

guys are going to have to do is you're

going to have to literally go to all of

these cars

and both get in both sides

see i told her we added to your list

yes

get in both sides both beginning to get

the driver's seat passenger seat and

just to bait how am i getting in and

out of these

but i think that this you know because

again elan musk hates doors

so these doors go real wide

so i think there's a lot of

opportunity here in the model three

performance that's the end of my

list but i hope you guys find

something awesome and i really i

want you in a car i love the

Volvo from you

but guys i really would love to get

you in a car

it's good all right so you've got

more driving homework here to do you've

got some choices to make and we wish

you happy hunting

thank you again for writing really

appreciate it

write to us every day driver tv at gmail.com

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car conclusion number one comes to

us from derrick g he wasn't even

looking anymore

but these you and i are never

looking anymore and still looking

well derrick had thrown in the

towel on the car search because the

seven thousand dollar budget was

leaving a lot to be desired

to try to find a car that ticks all

the boxes and didn't make him nauseous

when he thought the time in the shop

and what that might cost

yeah he was very wary to say the least

and had decided that they were just

going to wait

build up the budget

and try again next year

out of nowhere

his mechanic texts him

hey the guy at the shop next door

has a car for you

okay now derrick had mentioned his

interest in an r53 mini months ago

when he called him he was just to

tell him to use pressing pause on

the whole car search thing

and his mechanic cut him off and said

you might want to listen to this

turns out it's an o4 jcw mini cooper

s hello

every single suspension component

replaced in the last year talking

close to four thousand dollars in

parts alone new clutch aftermarket

lsd and mechanic owned

holy crap that's a good deal

okay cool all right it also comes

with a spare engine

wait what because why not

okay only has a hundred thousand miles

on it but it's a non-running

parts car that's somehow in great

shape and almost complete

and before derrick can even say the words

there's no way i can afford all that

his mechanic hits him with the price

thirty five hundred bucks all in

whoa or everything whoa

so what's the catch that's the

reflex of course what's the catch

apparently the seller just had too

many cars and he'd recently rekindled

his flame with an old rx-8

so he wanted to pour his money into a

rotary

well the jcw had to go but i also

have to say this this isn't just the

mechanic being nice the reality is

these cars aren't worth much

the nicest r53 many out there like the

nicest one might be eight grand

and that's like super low miles and

the person may be asking too much the

actual like average for these is four

to five thousand dollars so at that

point the what happened here here is

this mechanic as nice as this car is

probably has a lot of miles on it

looked at the market went well thirty

five hundred which is crazy yeah so

Derek went to see it that day it was

even better in person the only thing

it needed was a wheel bearing and by

the evening the cross tour was on the

market that he owned the end of the

week Derek was the proud owner of an

o4 jcw mini cooper s he said it's not

the prettiest it doesn't even have

back seats thank goodness for a parts

car that came with it that does have

the back seats oh my gosh okay but he

loves everything about driving an

analog tossable completely intoxicating

in corners he's already had way more

fun than he has any business having

in a commuter car and miraculously

the wife and kids love it incredible

incredible that is a fantastic car

conclusion Derek back at the whole

family i want to say to you guys i

look i have to call it out if you've

watched the test drive channel just

before this i have just revealed that

we bought a yellow

2005 r53 mini cooper s as my son's

first car we paid forty two hundred

dollars for a very well cared for

example high mile but just

meticulously maintained he loves it

please go watch the video on our test

drive videos channel us discussing and

as a family kind of all three of us

discovering yeah we really ought to buy

this car so we have it for him and it

is awesome i can only back your play

here

because i get it they aren't worth much

they're so so fun to drive and the

family will love it so bravo on that

that's great car conclusion number two

comes to us from cliff are he's got

actually two conclusions for us

he'll start with family friend who asked

him for advice on her recent car

purchase

and she was driving a manual f 56 base

mini cooper since 2013 those are the ones

that aren't supposed to run very well

she's had it since 2013

yeah that's impressive okay anyway yeah

we don't know what kind of money

she's poured into it good for her though

that's great

but her mini was what inspired

his initial mini purchase in 2023

she'd been torn with the idea of

getting a replacement for three years

but you know life stuff happens

her drive homework to that point

had been a jcw mini countryman of the

same gen she liked it felt it was too

much the same to her cooper

a brief love affair with the out as

three happened she test drove everything

bmw had stuff to offer

and then along with some other cars

that cliff can't recall

but she realized she wanted smaller

crossover or large hatch most of those

crossovers were too big and she liked

that countryman

but then cliff said go look at a

mcconn

and she said there's no way i can

afford a portion afford a portion not

possible yep

and then later that night she said

in the text saying she couldn't believe

she could afford to use mcconn

was excited about one nearer

and uh so when she returned home

she found one nearby

test drove it fell in love

ended up buying and shipping a mcconn

from texas

to kentucky

orange black interior

the deviated stitching the orange

stitching that's cool actually

you don't see very many of those like

that that's awesome and he says the

mcconn is really a hatch

which what we keep saying we keep

saying it's Porsche's hatchback

and there it is proven

so cliff says second

conclusion he that we have covered

a couple of his questions in the

past on episode 992 he asked about

balancing saving for a 911

or other reach car here

he was unsurprised for us to say buy

something now

he was unsurprised by that conclusion

but he wrote to us anyway yeah

he had the f 56 mini cooper s that he

owned for 18 months

traded it in on the crv for an

odyssey to accommodate their growing

family

that many was the reintroduction to

the manual transmission

and prior to trading in he had already

been doing drive homework for the next

fun car gr86

brz

myana mustang

all the good stuff yeah

so when it was ready to when he was

ready to jump to the next fun car

family life needed to focus

instead of immediately buying he

decided to be financial responsible

and pay their bmw off aggressively

i'm glad you did get it paid off

but he swore off car shopping for

that six month window that sounds

like a serious withdrawal situation

he said no auto tempest no

investigating prices on facebook

marketplace

he only consumed automotive content

like our show but he did no

browsing i don't know how you did

i seriously don't know how you did that

serious discipline my whole brain is

just like i run into random car like

well what are those costs now and i'm

auto tempest dot com plus every day oh

look those are that much i should sort

it this way

what's close to me

that's like a tons of my wife has

gotten the point where she just sees

part of the morning routine okay

that's happening again but prior to

being responsible he had actually

tested a 987 came an s oh yeah and

was pretty confident that that was

going to be the next car then he

goes on this sabbatical of not

looking

so then you know then when he

gets when he gets settled back to it

and having a conversation he decides

now it's time to his words here

commence 987 content consumption

and waffling waffling around which one

will be best

and he ended up with the well if i

could get a 987 came and why not a

996

a Carrera so then now he's doing

compare and contrast

he's looking everywhere he's deciding

this is where it is and then he

says there's a twist

many of his favorite youtubers

have produced haunt s2000 content

at the exact same time

bless the algorithm apparently

he says a car he's always loved but

like most people forgot existed for

some reason

the main issue is fitting

he barely fits in the miata and then

only after losing 80 pounds

he says when the bmw was finally

paid off he found an s2000 at a local

dealer to take a look at

and test drive and he fit

lo and behold but that specific car

couldn't be test driven because the

ecu was out for replacement

took some time to be repaired

but he was hooked on the idea of

the s2000 at the beginning of

october 2025 he sat down with his

wife got to go ahead

to pursue this s2000 love it love it

with the ambitious goal of getting

the car by the end of the month

he was searching for the ap1

with that 9000 rpm redline

the early looking for a driver

example minimally modified clean

car facts

he wasn't set on a 10 out of 10

vin car but obviously a plus

with a budget of 25 000

he commenced to search

and literally a week later he

purchased a 2001 spa yellow s2000

with almost exactly 100 000 miles

100 stock 1010 vin car completely

clean car facts oem hardtop

holy moly

blew up his budget a little bit

but he was planning on the hard top

he was planning on buying the hard

top after the fact so now he

spent a little bit of extra money

and got the hard top included i

have a photo of one like this on

screen

this is an early gen in yellow with

hard top and he said

this was a big purchase for him

but one of the most surprising

things is he's only ever bought

silver white gray

black cars it's even hod color

yellow yellow yellow yellow

i love this this is so cool i love

that you bought this car in yellow

these are such good cars to drive

he is in love with it and you should

be cliff congratulations

i really hope you're enjoying it and

he does mention he wants to come to

an hod track day soon please

join us and yeah keep a look at

hooked on driving dot com for the

future schedule but uh we'd love to

have you all of you are invited to

bring your car and cliff i'm so glad

you got something you absolutely

love congrats congrats on blowing up

the budget a little i hope it was

worth it see but he got the hard top

he got it's worth it was money he

was planning on i get it i see it

couple of quick questions on

instagram here john cater for says

he just watched the lightweight

special thank you for watching

appreciate it yeah for sure

he loved it ben did tourism in

america right so ben was the owner

of the alpine a 110 who lives in

france shipped his a 110 over many

journalists drove it including us

matt and zak and jason camisa so we

all had some time with car

we all loved it it was great

and john on the question here he

says if you could pull a ben by

taking a forbidden fruit car to

another country a car that we get

in the usa that isn't offered there

in europe for video reviews and

fun driving what country and car

combo would that be well you know

john we just recently recently

discovered this summer the c eight

corvette in europe turns heads like

crazy crazy yeah we had the

opportunity from our friends at rsr

to drive one and we are on track but

part of that trip was the road tour

through germany and of all the

Porsches with the giant wings and

the bmw's and the cool french you

know the reynos and all that stuff

it was the c eight that people snapped

their necks looking at him because

it's not offered here and we'd like

to think that that was the same thing

with alpine a 110 even though most

people most consumers they don't really

pay attention to that kind of stuff

it's just another car and they're like

oh what what is alpine i don't really

know but yeah that corvette so i'm

thinking like the zr1x

oh like monster wings crazy you

don't see the corvette yeah that's

and here's the ultimate expression

of that yeah i see it i see it yeah

whoa

that's really good i don't know that

i can top that because

a lot of the i keep thinking about the

forbidden fruit from that direction

but then the other thing of the equation

is the other thing you don't see over

there is the big hellcat dodges now some

people do rent them true true yeah but a

big hellcat dodge would be fascinating

over like like the demon like like take

not with the drag tires like put

normal tires on it like let's take a

demon over there like and and and

the thing is that's like too wide for

some european villages the problem is

i don't know how much i would enjoy

driving it because it is the wrong

car in the wrong place but you're you're

at the public service it is a public

service i'm showing it off to the world

that is very cool i i like the zr1 or

zr1x that's excellent it's really good

yeah monster aggressive giant wing

because the c8 already gets crazy

attention in europe so yeah that would

be interesting john thanks for the

question

anthony zerg is staying in the

lightweight's discussion i love this

so he says the a110 doesn't come in

a manual and we say it doesn't

detract from the fun but if it did

come in a manual would we find

yourself choosing it over the auto now

anthony i want to talk on this because

i i kind of wrote a target on my painted

a target on my chest when we had that

discussion because i said two things and

i want to clarify it further

i talked about the a110 might be the

car that gets me out of my lotus elise

because i love driving it and it's a

more usable car everywhere the elise

isn't the elise is all about the

driving that's why i love it

but the a110 is like you could do

a normal day in it and not hate

yourself okay i mean i've done it

but i've had like dedicate myself to

it and i would never take a passenger

the a110 you could take somebody with

you they wouldn't hate you either which would

be nice

so but the point i made is when i'm

driving the elise on a back road and

having the time of my life

why i'm enjoying it is not because it's

a manual

i like that it's a manual i enjoy

having a manual i enjoy shifting a

manual none of those things change

but the things i'm liking about it or

not

well thank god this is a manual i mean

you can drive here's the thing you

can drive a bad car and thank god it's

a manual because it made it a little

bit more fun

that happens

i've driven like average sedans but

because it's a manual or huge trucks

because it makes it kind of fun sure

the elise is not fun because it's a

manual i'm glad it has one

the alpine is the same reality the

alpine isn't fun

well if only had a manual it would be

fun it's just fun

true the manual i'd love to have a

manual i mentioned on the piece you

even said that might be the ultimate

build

an alpine with it with a manual i

think i would love to drive that car

now the question is here's the other

thing

just like hydraulic steering

some hydraulic steering is amazing

and some is like

hydraulic steering isn't a guarantee of

greatness

a manual isn't a guarantee of greatness

it's true you can have a bad manual

and there's nothing more disappointing

than i have a manual but it's not a

very good one

yeah that's a real bummer

so what is the manual in this

theoretical a 110 build

if it's a great manual would i take

it in addition to having the a 110

yes

but i don't need the manual to make an

a 110 fun

okay that's how i want to try to

clarify but it'd be very cool if there

was one who's making that man here's the

thing okay i'll go you i'll go there

the s 2000 manual in an a 110

bring it bring it i'll take it right

now ultimate builds yeah

asa holister on instagram is on an

s 2000 kick this week would they make

a good first sports car ownership

experience

yes

yes yes they would definitely go

presume definitely drive one and if

you can drive both generations

to uh to determine that but uh yeah we

definitely recommend those

and also pasta fazool has a question

what cars were one change away from

greatness

g r the g r 86 like 300 horsepower g r 86

with a turbo uh yeah g r 86 with a

turbo yeah you want that turbo more

than i do but i do take your point

all right yeah imagine 300 horsepower

in the g r 86 we'd be like yeah i mean

we love it anyway but i do take

your point yeah a little more power i

see this i see this concept there yeah

many cars but that just pops right to

my mind i mean g r 86 awesome we love

it and it's just one tick more just

turbo

a couple things to point out off of

this question from seth climb and he

asked about taking non-car questions i

will answer your question real quick but

that reminds me all of you should

know just coming up on the calendar

we are a few podcasts away from a

christmas break we're going to take

a break between actual christmas

day and new years we will take we

will skip one podcast that'll be

the 30th of december but coming

the 15th of december that is a

monday night we are going to do

podcast 1025 live as we continue our

every 25 will do a live podcast that'll

be a rapid fire questions only it

won't be all it'll be car questions and

non-car questions but episode 1025

monday december 15th will be live here

in the studio that evening monday night

so we can post it everywhere else for

everybody on tuesday so keep that in

mind make a note on your calendar

you're asking about non-car

questions seth more specifically best

place to ski in utah that's likely to

not be crowded thinking of coming out

here in january february not a holiday

weekend

i'm going to say dear valley now a couple

of reasons

dear valley has this perception of being

wildly expensive it is but so is every

other ski area in the area the thing

you have to understand is dear valley

is like

five bucks maybe more than and other

places like it's the same price or

you've got to discount this day and

not that day

dear valley is just about as expensive as

everywhere else

but they still limit the number of people

on the mountain

they are doubling the amount of actual

ski area this year

and limiting the total number of people

on the mountain

so i would say dear valley versus

locally park city

which has the epic pass and had all

kinds of problems with crowds last

year yeah oh yeah

there are other great areas it's also

going to depend on when you're here

if you can come out midweek

much better than a weekend

try that as well midweek

i would say dear valley

alta can be really good

snow basin has been discovered

it was super busy last year

i was going to say snow basin

that i remembered you guys had a crazy

experience

yeah weekdays it's a crapshoot

but on the weekends

it's just crowded now

it's a great place but it's crowded

dear valley i feel pretty confident

about because of that situation

and also try really hard to be here

some on the weekdays

for sure guys thank you for all your

questions we really appreciate it

we'll keep posting on social media

but in the meantime

write to us topic tuesdays

car conclusions car debates

everyday driver tv at gmail.com

and again make sure to go to hooked

on driving.com

for the future track days

trips coming up keep your eye on that

and we're looking forward to next

time as always cheers everyone

Gone Too Soon & Stayed Too Long, Fight For The Backseat, What’s The Catch? | Episode 1,023

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