Has our Range Rover finally broken down? #296

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Welcome back to the intercooler podcast everybody the podcast powered by car finance specialist

JBR Capital. This is episode 296. We're getting close to 300. We are. There's so much that we

want to talk about this week Andrew. We're actually recording this on a Thursday. It'll go out the

following Monday. It's very rare that we record on a Thursday. It is unusual. Very rare. It is

unusual but we between the recording and it going out we're going to be at Bista Motion

for the first Sunday scramble of the new year. Yes and we're going to be inside.

Right now the forecast is looking a bit grim. Normally at a scramble we'll have a great spot

on there. They call it the technical site don't they. We'll have a bunch of cars and some flags

and you and I will be standing out all day saying hello to people which is great. We like doing it but

maybe not so much in the rain and the cold. Yeah mind your last generous snow didn't it.

Yeah it did. I don't think he's going to do that. Either way I'm glad that we're going to be in the

hangar. I'm really looking forward to it because I think the team at Bista have gathered together

50 very special cars to celebrate the 50th anniversary of TWR, Tom Walkenshaw Racing.

Absolutely. Road cars, race cars. Some extraordinary stuff. Touring cars, Formula

1 cars, Group C cars, road cars, all sorts. So we are talking about something that's already

happened aren't we. This is it. I'm going to come back around to this. So you and I are going to be

or we were on stage talking to a couple of people who worked very very closely with

Tom Walkenshaw and TWR and those interviews will go out as live podcast as podcast excuse me later

on. But what I wanted to do here was just sort of discuss TWR a little bit and explain why it's

worth us and Bista Motion celebrating this 50th anniversary.

I mean Tom Walkenshaw he was I mean gosh if ever there was a person for whom the name

Maverick was invented it would have been Tom. I mean he was someone who just did everything

Tom's way and no other way and you hear such vastly differing stories. I would say generally

speaking the people who worked with him really really adored him and there were some people who

came up against him or got on the wrong side of him who didn't feel that way about him.

And you know and you heard all sorts of stories about all sorts of things with Tom. I mean he

had he certainly was a person on the competition side who delighted in pushing both the letter

and the spirit of the rules as far as they could possibly go. Yeah that stuff was legendary wasn't

it. Yeah and no one's written a book about it. Have you got time? I haven't got time not even

sure I've got the inclination because I don't know there just seems to be something slightly

unsimilar about putting the boot in when someone's not around to defend themselves.

But there were some quite funny stories about the links that he would go to to gain

an advantage in competition. I think it just spoke to the nature of the man.

But actually he was such an important person in the history of the car. I mean I think probably

very significantly Aston Martin would Aston Martin exist if it weren't for Tom Walkinshaw.

If Tom Walkinshaw hadn't told Ian Callum to turn a rejected design or a design that he'd

done for Jaguar which Jaguar had rejected and turn it into a modern Aston Martin.

No DB7. Ford would have lost interest very quickly because the profits would have been

well there wouldn't have been any. The DB7 I think we can now look as the being the bridge

from the Aston Martin evolved to the modern Aston Martin and there's no question at all to me that

the modern Aston Martin exists because of the success of the DB7.

And that was all Walkinshaw. They engineered it, they designed it, they built it.

It was that idea, their plan, wasn't it?

Exactly. So I think critical if you care about Aston Martin and then also bringing Jaguar back

to the absolute top level of sports car racing whatever it was. So 31 years, so Jaguar last one

Le Mans in 1957 before the Group C era and then 30 years later in 87 winning the World Sports Car

Championship and the following year winning Le Mans. Jaguar still dines on out on that today.

That's one of the ways in which it justifies calling itself a sporting mark, isn't it?

Yes and of course it's successful and very present in Formula E at the moment.

So all good there but I wonder if they'd even be doing that if it hadn't been for Tom Walkinshaw.

And then of course there was his involvement in Formula One and in touring cars and

all the stuff they do in Australia. Yeah, I mean a massively important significant man.

So TWR was essentially a consultancy, wasn't it? If you perhaps you're a big car maker and you

wanted a racing program, TWR was one of the the organizations that you might talk to.

Yeah and everybody did, Mazda, Rover, Jaguar, everybody. And if you wanted to build a low

volume supercar, you perhaps you talked to TWR. Or you wanted a hot version of your existing car.

I mean one of the most surprising cars I drove in the early part of my career was the 6.0L XJRS

which I think I did a group test of 1990 with the Ferrari Mondial BMW 850i on a Porsche 928

and the Jag 1. Despite the fact the XJS was a 15 year old design underneath, there was an

awful lot of E-Type still left in it. And if that had been a normal XJS, it wouldn't even

got in the test, let alone come anywhere. But when Walkinshaw breathed on it, magic resulted.

And a Ferrari and a Porsche and a brand new BMW, it was I mean I've done a lot of tests

in my time but I remember that one. One of the fascinating things for me is that

they didn't just sit back waiting for the phone to ring as is the case with the DB7.

They would actually come up with an idea, come up with a design, come up with a

you know a styling buck and take it to a manufacturer. Correct. So let's do this.

Great. Like a freelancer pitching a story.

Yeah. But with slightly greater consequences if they don't want it.

Wow. I mean there were some brilliant people who worked at TWI over the years.

Some great racing drivers who raced TWR's cars. Yeah.

So that's why it's worth celebrating 50 years. Definitely.

We, I think we both wanted to talk about the cars, the long-term test cars that we're

running at the moment. Yeah. You go first. So for the last few months, three or four months,

I've had an Audi A6 e-tron and an electric A6 estate and it's been my everyday car.

It goes back next week and it's being swapped for what to me is a more exciting Audi,

a S5 event. So it's a twin-turbo V6 petrol small estate car.

Yes. To me an S5 is a coupe. I know. It's strange. They've changed the

badging system. I haven't got my head around it. Whenever I talk about S5 event, I have to say to

people it's basically the new S4 estate and that seems to make sense. Yeah. But it is confusing.

But if it's confusing for us, we're meant to do this for a living. How confusing must it be for

the people out there? And when you sort of read into it, there's some sort of logic to it but I

still haven't got my head around it to be honest. But anyway, so they're being swapped over next

week. So I will talk a bit more about the A6 that is going and the S5 that is coming a little bit

later on. I actually want to talk about another car that I've taken delivery of recently,

an Alpine A290. Have you got two long termers? Yeah. I've never done that before. I don't think

anyone's done that before. I don't know anyone who's done it before. Well, there's a first for

everything. So yeah, I mean, I'm running two cars at the moment. The A290, as most of you will

probably know, is the Alpine version of the Renault 5. Mine is a GTS, that's the top spec one.

And with the government grant, which is worth £3,750, that's the new grant for EVs to encourage

people to buy EVs. But not all the EVs qualify, do they? Not all do, but all versions of the Renault

5, the Alpine A290 and the Renault 4 do qualify. Does a 390 qualify? No, it's too expensive.

So with the grant, the A290 is £34,245. So it's not a crazy amount of money for a top spec

hot hatch. Yeah. So that's your specification, that's the GTS specification. So what's the

least you can pay for an A290? Just over 31, I believe, off the top of my head.

That's probably top end Renault 5, isn't it? Yeah. The gap between the most expensive Renault 5 and

the cheapest A290, I mean, it's a few quid, it's not much, is it? Yeah, not much. Not much.

And so it's very, very early days with the A290. I haven't spent a great deal of time in it.

So I want to do that. I want to drive it much more before sharing, you know, more impressions.

But it's a cool looking thing, I think. It's got that sort of tarmac rally car stance and some

of the styling cues. It's got a really good interior. The Renault 5 interior is fantastic

for a little city car. And this, the Alpenes is also very good, but with really supportive,

comfortable seats. So it's, you know, there is a lot to like about it.

If you glance at Twitter or X these days and you see people discussing Renault 5s and Alpenes A290s

at the moment in the middle of winter, there's one topic of conversation.

Hang on. Rear seat comfort. No, it's not that, actually. Shopping capacity. No, I know where

this is going. Electric range. Go on. I mean, so our friend David Pooke. Yeah.

Treated something about this. Yeah. So he's got one. Yeah. And he's saying that it's

basically a hundred miles on a full charge. It's a hundred miles.

And he's right. He's absolutely right. I was driving in today. It's not a long journey,

but both the state of charge percentage and the range readout were in the 60s.

So that's a killer. That's a percentage per mile. Yeah. More or less.

So what, this is my concern about a car like that because the theory, actually, because you

know it's properly engineered and it's, you know, and for an EV, for a little EV, it'll be good fun

to drive. But then the reality. I know. So that's what you said to me before we came on air.

If I'd had that car and I just wanted to go to the mountains and back,

you know, would I make it? And I think my answer was, well, I would make it, but,

and it's only like 30 miles to the mountains. But when I got there, I wouldn't be able to drive it

the way that I want to drive a car like that on those sorts of roads. So it would be completely

defeat the point of going. Yeah. Yeah. And if you can't drive that car, you live outside Bristol,

you know, you have some decent roads around you, but you can't go off for a, you know, a proper

drive in it unless you plan it very carefully and are happy to spend a substantial proportion of

your day, you know, start waiting for it to recharge. Yeah. So I want to explore that a bit

more. I really do. I am going to. How long have you got it for? Six months. Oh, okay. So we'll

find out what it's like in the summer. Exactly right. So clearly we know that EVs lose a lot

of their range in winter. Yeah. They just don't like it. And so I'll run it through to the start

of summer when it'll be much warmer. Yeah. And hopefully the range will improve significantly.

I will report back. Yeah. But I also want to take the time to get to great roads and see if

it has the flexibility, the range to actually allow me to do so, see if I can find ways to

charge quickly enough. And to not worry. That's a thing, isn't it? That is the thing. If you're

constantly distracted because, you know, you go for a five mile proper go over a decent road and

you're thinking you look down and you suddenly realize you've lost 20% of your battery. And now

you're marginal on getting to a, you know, he says to me, be into that, do you? Well, you know,

in the past, when I have taken EVs on those sort of spirited drives, it's not the lack of a

combustion powertrain and a manual gearbox that has hampered my fun. It is worrying about range

and thinking, if I do another run or if I keep driving this way, I'm really going to struggle

to get to a charger. And also, you know, you don't get 350 kilowatts, I don't know what your

car's, what it'll charge at 120 or 150 or whatever. I don't know. Yeah. I need to work that out.

But you don't get those sorts of charges in that part of the world. That's, that's another issue.

You know, you could find yourself charging a, well, if you're lucky, you can find some three

phase and charge at 22. And okay, it's not an enormous battery, but it's still, you know,

it's a substantial period of time. I would hope that there will be a McDonald's or a

something with a fast charger. Yeah. You know, in fast ish, in the roads we use in South Wales,

there might, there will be, yeah, but it's not, it's not going to be like sort of IONITY at Junction

17 or the M4, is it? It's not going to be that. No. So I know it's a very, very simplistic

sort of assessment of range. I'm going to do much, much more as we go. What I'm seeing at the moment,

just looking at the onboard computer is that it's returning 2.1 miles per kilowatt hour,

which is, that's poor. It's not great. And the, the battery capacity is 52. The usable

is a bit less. So I mean, that indicates a 100 mile range. Yikes. There's much,

much more digging to do. I need to do some longer drives. I need to explore it properly.

So far it's the only real criticism I have of the car. On those little local drives,

it should be at its most efficient. Yeah. You know, go on the motorway. Yeah. With your

bum warmers on and you're keeping yourself and your kids warm. Anyway, I do have a little bit

of insight what it may or may not be relevant. It probably is though, on the Range Rover that I'm

sadly shortly to be handing back to Land Rover. Because then when that turned up,

which I think was sort of May time, and then through the summer, its hybrid battery would give

you about 68 miles of electric range. This morning it was 51. Yeah. And that's not battery

degradation over time. That's just weather. That's winter. That's winter. And the trouble is I can't

work out what that is, what that percentage is, but it's probably what 30%. Yeah, it's a big difference.

So if that were to hold true for your LP, then you might suddenly find that it's

gone up to 130, 140 miles. Yeah. So it's going to be very, very interesting to assess it a bit

more. And you can't just say, oh, well, that only happens in winter. We're in winter for almost a

third of the year, isn't it, frankly, in cold conditions in this country. So it's a very,

very big consideration. What I will say though, when I'm not worrying about range,

when I am just using it for local journeys, it's a blast, you know, scooting around in a sporty

little EV hot hatch and around the lanes and flattening the accelerator and, you know,

using the performance and working the chassis hard. It's great for that sort of thing. Really,

really, really good fun. You mentioned your Range Rover. Yes. Go on.

The thing about the Range Rover is I have absolutely adored this car. I never, ever,

ever thought I could fall for an SUV, let alone a 2.7 tonne SUV, the way that I have for this car.

And I'm really, really not looking forward to the day that it goes back because the truth

of it is, and I'm not particularly proud of it, I just love being in it. It makes me a better,

more considerate driver because I just don't engage with anybody over anything at all. I just

let the world get on with its own stuff and I just waft along. And it's just been a complete

revelation because honestly, it feels in terms of the ride and the refinement, it feels not that

far removed from a Rolls-Royce. And I really couldn't, particularly because you've got that

big, elevated driving position as well. And just the sense of wellbeing you get in the car is,

you know, I've run S-Class Mercedes and really enjoyed them. But actually, I think the Range

Rover is, I understand why it's kicking hell out of all the other luxury SUVs. I really,

really do. Which is the good news. The thing that has characterised my time with the car is

basically people coming up to me saying, has it gone wrong yet? You've had it endlessly.

Endlessly from, you know, postman, friends, journalists, random people in the street or

what the people just expecting it to go wrong. And it has threatened to. It once flashed up

a transmission fault when there wasn't one. It then completely shut down on me in a street in

Chepstow. Literally, I got back into the car and nothing worked. Turned out it was doing an over

the air update, which I had acknowledged, but hadn't even realised. I just hit agree. And it

hadn't said, oh, by the way, this will mobilise the car for the next however long. I don't think

you'd do it anyway. Also, why isn't it defaulting to do that at night? Can't answer that question.

But it asked me if I wanted to download it. I clearly said yes without realising or my daughter

was sat next to me said yes. I just said agree because you do because you're distracted and

something comes up on the screen and you just say agree because you don't realise it's going to stop

the car. But at these days, the technology exists for the car to think, okay, you might need to

apply some sort of AI program to it to think about it and go, hang on, we're not near home.

We've just we've driven away from home and parked up here. Now is not the right time to do an

over the air update. Yeah, it should be able to do that. Yeah. Sorry. I've written about this on

the website and app award winning website map, which you should all go and subscribe to it right

now. Because you won't regret it. Anyway, I took it. I didn't take it to Bruges. I took a daughter

to Bruges in because I wanted to see because I had this sneaking suspicion all along that I'd

chosen the wrong car. And what I should have had is a diesel. And I also wanted to see what a long

wheelbase one was like relative to the standard wheelbase which I have. And that all added up to

me doing a decent trip in a diesel one. Land Rover very kindly dropped a diesel. Also, I also wanted

to find out what Range Rover was like without the the enormous rear seat, you know, comfort

that Pluto crap specification. Yeah, yours has got the whizzy fancy seat. Yeah, exactly.

And so I went to Bruges with the daughter because we're both obsessed with the film in Bruges and

we went we spent a really geeky weekend just finding out locations and that sort of thing.

And the diesel range, the diesel diesel long wheelbase Range Rover was

superb. First of all, getting rid of the luxury seats is an absolute no brainer to me.

I can't imagine why anybody would have unless you unless you're chauffeuring whatever which

stage you have a long wheelbase car. The rear seats are really comfortable, but the ones in

the standard car aren't bad. And basically, it makes the car a four seater. Whereas this long

wheelbase one was a seven seater. And if you have seven seats, or even five seats, they fall

completely flat into the floor. Whereas if you have these comfort seats, they don't do anything

close to that. Yeah, I tried to borrow your car. You couldn't do it because you wouldn't have got

your kids in the back. I couldn't have got my kids in the back seat. Okay, if you'd had a standard

car, an HSE, I think this was a mid spec HSE. And there was nothing apart from the absolute

whiz bang top of the range meridian sound system that the HSE didn't have, which the car that I

have, which is an autobiography has which I wish I would have missed. But and this I think might be

the first time I've said it, either stayed with the plug in powertrain, which is what my car has

got. You can just hear the diesel. And the thing is, people think, well, these have got amazing

range. But if you plug, if you're doing medium journeys, but if you spend most nights at home,

and you plug the plug in in, I mean, I've been getting 7800 miles out of a out of a fuel tank

on my car, you have more torque than the diesel. And you have that wonderful, you know, I've come

here today, we're in a podcast studio in Bristol, I've come from home in the Y Valley. And the engine

went switch on all the way down back. And I love that. So the car that I want is a long wheelbase

seven seat plug in. But of course, you can't get it. Yeah. Because the battery goes where the

where the seats are. But you can get a long wheelbase five seat plug in, which is the range

row that I would have. And that's not really the reason I'm talking about the range row. It's

really about all these people coming up to me and saying, when's it going to go on? When's it

going to go on? It kind of did yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. Finally, it went wrong. How many months have

you had it? Seven, I think. Okay. Yeah, I think it came in May. And we're now in January, someone

else can do the maths. Yeah. It went, it sort of went wrong. No, it did go wrong. But anyway,

so what happened was I was on a shoot down in Somerset. And we're doing, we're using it as a

tracking vehicle is the most wonderful tracking vehicle. Photographers take one look at the range

over and they just make a beeline for it because they know how comfortable the ride is and they

know how safe they are with that split hatch at the back. And you know, it's just brilliant.

There isn't a better car for doing those sorts of shots. And I was driving along and then it just

sort of started to vibrate. And I thought that's been strange. And then it did a bit more. And then

it kind of lost an awful lot of power. And then it flashed up a science science saying transmission

overheating. And then it stopped. And I thought, Oh, blimey. I'm in trouble here.

But a few minutes later, I got it going again in EV mode. I don't think I'd have been able to do it

if I hadn't had a hybrid on it. Yeah, I think it would have been a recovery from the middle of the

road. And I got it to a safe space. And because we were in the middle of the shoot, I just didn't

have time to worry about it. We had another camera car we could use. And I just carried on and got

the shoot done, went back to the car. Absolutely fine. Apart from a yellow engine light, which was

still on. So I rang up the guys from Land Rover and said, Oh, it's got this yellow engine light.

Is it okay to proceed? And they said that it was and we looked it up on the app.

Excellent app, by the way. And there's a toggle you can hit which says vehicle health.

And it flagged up all sorts of things. But the car drove absolutely perfectly. And I then had to

fill it up on the way home. And then even the engine light went out. So I thought, well, it's

fine. But Land Rover, it being their car, and me therefore not having any choice in this,

wanted Land Rover assist, otherwise known as the AA, to come and look at it. And so a bloke came out,

had a look at it, plugged it in, looked at all the fault codes. And basically, there had been,

we think it was a fuelling issue, but probably caused by an electronic glitch,

which had caused the car briefly to run on one cylinder, which is wide overheated as transmission,

because the car was essentially slipping clutches or something, to try to get me

up this hill I was driving at the time, in a single cylinder Range Rover. And

that shut the car down. But he cleared all the fault codes, and took it for a drive,

and the car was completely fine. Does it erode your confidence in the car? Imagine you would,

you know, I don't know, a wedding, and you're taking the bride to the church or something.

Is there something in the back of your mind just thinking, oh, this would be bad if it let me down?

I know, I don't think so, because I mean, the car's done 11,000 miles. It's the first time

it has actually stopped. Now, it shouldn't do it. You know, it should not do it, you know, period.

It's embarrassing that it did. But it's once in 11,000 miles, and, you know, it's not as if the

car had to be recovered. It's not as if the car had to go to a dealership. It's not as if the car

had to be repaired. Oh, it's not ideal. And it wasn't good for the blood pressure at the time,

particularly when it stopped in the middle of the road. But the honest truth is, you know,

the thing is, we're journalists, one of the worst people to ask these questions, we never spend

our own money on these cars. But that car has made me reassess the way I look at

high quality travel. And I put up with a lot to have a Range Rover in my life. Even over,

the other luxury cars, the same amount of money could buy. I would really put up with a lot.

And the truth is that 11,000 miles, it hasn't really inconvenienced me. It certainly hasn't

let me down majorly. It's given me cause for concern a couple of times. But I'd wear it.

I really think I would wear it. Now, I think the more interesting question

is, will I buy a 10 year old one in a decade's time? I'd be a bit twitchy about that.

I'd be a bit twitchy about that with 70, 80,000 miles on the clock.

Got to be fascinating to revisit this in episode 800.

It was still around. But it's going to return in a couple of weeks time.

And I actually haven't got a long time after that. So what I'm going to do is,

I spent a month recently, again, people who subscribe to the website and app. And actually,

I did a very short video about it, which is up on YouTube. You can go and have a look at it on

the Kula YouTube site. I had a 997 GT3 RS for a month. I'm going to do a few more of those.

So I'm going to live with a couple of cars for a month each, maybe three cars.

See how it goes, see how you guys like it. It's a way of talking about long-term cars

with quite a good level of sort of turnover. So I'm not always going on about the same car all

the time. It also allows us, as I did with the GT3 RS, to drive some older stuff,

which I know you guys like. So I'm going to do that and see how I get on with it.

Good. Very good. So we need to talk about the Ford Transit. I'll explain why in a moment.

But before we do that, I'm just going to remind you all that as a listener to this podcast,

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Transit. So the Ford Transit, we did an entire episode about Ford last week. We did.

Titled, What on Earth is going on at Ford? Yes. And I'm not going to get into it now,

because you can go and listen to the episode if you haven't already.

Do. If you're interested at all in Ford, and you haven't heard it, do. I think it's one of those

rare occasions, and I think actually Dan and I did a reasonably good job of this podcast. So yeah,

I'm quite proud of it. There was one important Ford that we didn't have time to talk about.

Or just didn't talk about. Well, because we're a podcast, and I'm going to stick my hand up to

this. Certainly from my point of view, I should have spoken about the Transit and we didn't,

because it is a massive Ford success story. And we made a point in the podcast that we weren't

really talking about Ford sales in the US or any else in the world, we're just talking about UK.

And it has been Britain's best selling van, I think probably since it came out.

I don't know if it's still the case, but the marketing slogan a while ago was the backbone

of Britain. And certainly if we're talking about people who use transit vans or vans like it,

it's true, isn't it? There are so many small businesses and big businesses that have been

reliant on their transits for decades. Have you driven one recently? No, I'm not sure I ever have.

They're unbelievable. About, I don't know, three or four months ago, I drove a new one,

did quite a big mileage in it, shifted a lot of stuff. You wouldn't believe how comfortable

they are, how quiet they are. They're nice to drive. Yeah, that's impressive. There's no hardship

in bombing about and you get into this sort of slightly sort of van mentality.

And I don't, I wouldn't say I was surprised because I've known for years how good they are,

but they really are fabulous things. And yeah, we should have pointed it out and we didn't.

So we are now. We are now. Okay. Did you want to say any more or is that...

The only other thing I wanted to say, which we couldn't have said at the time because it wasn't

happening, Dakar. Yeah. Yeah. So as we record this, and again apologies because usually this

is recorded and goes out on a Monday, but for reasons altogether too boring to go into,

we're recording on a Thursday for a Monday transmission. This may all have changed,

but at the time of recording, I think Ford, the Raptor, I think their first, second and

third in the Dakar, they're absolutely smashing it. Wow. And also Land Rover on their first return

as a sort of proper manufacturer in their own class are doing the same with the Defender.

It's impressive. So fair play to them. Have you been following it closely?

I wouldn't say closely because I've just been up to an awful lot of other stuff.

But I know that it is kind of like all the people you'd expect to be doing well aren't.

And you know, Ford and Land Rover have sort of made the most of the opportunity so far.

Is this Ford's first year back? I think it is, isn't it?

I think it is. I don't think they were that... Yeah, I think it is.

Maybe I'm wrong. But that's cool. So I must tune into it a bit more. I've been like you,

just very, very busy. I haven't found the time to get stuck into it, but it's a hell of an event.

And yeah, it's good to see newcomers doing well, isn't it? It always is.

Two other things that I want to discuss on this episode.

Alpina. BMW has now officially taken over Alpina. So we knew this was happening a little while back.

Alpina is the legendary BMW tuning company, independent for decades. But now it's been

brought into the mothership. I don't really know why. Did the family want to get out or...?

I don't know. I don't know why. I suspect BMW wanted the brand, because it's such a highly...

I could see why BMW would want it.

...regarding the brand. And then I guess at that stage it just comes a question of money,

doesn't it? Yeah, of course. So BMW has now taken control. There's no news. There's no model plans

or there's no concept. There's a new typeface.

Your BMW, what are you going to do? To me, I think Alpina is a really

interesting, and I use the word advisory problem, because the cars are brilliant.

When Alpinas go up against BMWs, in our experience, Alpinas tend to win.

They are fabulous cars, but they sell in tiny quantities. I've got a brother who's got a

B3 estate. I think it's done 200,000 miles now, and it just keeps on going.

And we know that Alpinas get driven massively greater distances than M cars,

but they still sell in tiny quantities. So from BMW, BMW isn't going to spend all that money and

get that just for it to sort of chunter along and sell handfuls of cars. They're going to want to

sell meaningful numbers of cars. So how do you do that without damaging the Alpina brand in the

process? I'm glad I've asked you that. I'm glad I've asked you that question, because I don't

have an answer to it. What I will say is that in the short statement that BMW has released so far,

it does appear to understand Alpina. It talks about superior ride comfort and

high grade materials and optional extras and that sort of thing.

But I suppose the point is that Alpinas and BMW M cars have typically, across comparable models,

had very similar power. But they've gone about doing it in a very, very different way.

And particularly these days, something like an M3, it's quite a focused car these days.

It's not trying to be the consummate all round. It's trying to be quite a

single-minded performance car. Absolutely. But the equivalent B3 is a much more broadly defined

thing, isn't it? Incredible ride comfort, very, very high grades, particularly leather throughout

the interior. Beautiful place to sit. Quality experience. Quality experience, yeah. So there

is a clear and distinct Alpina identity, isn't there? And so job one is to maintain that.

Yeah, but job two is to maintain that increased sales without cannibalizing BMW sales. It'd be

very interesting to see how they do it. I mean, BMW's record with managing out other brands is

pretty good. I mean, they've done brilliantly with Mini. They did brilliantly with Rolls-Royce,

less well with the Rover. So I mean, it'll be interesting, but clearly there's a business

plan. Clearly BMW knows what they're going to do with it. Yeah. So the one thing that I wanted to

propose, and this is something Alpina could never do as an independent, and maybe their volumes are

just too small to ever justify it. But what about a bespoke Alpina? Yeah, in the same way that AMG

was allowed to do bespoke, you know, was allowed to do the SLS and then the GT.

And they're not really allowed to do that anymore because the current GT is SL based.

It is. Yeah. So I don't know whether, so if that experiment, whether it succeeded or failed in

Mercedes, they never less felt the need to bring it to an end. And they don't do their own engine

anymore. Is that right? Gosh. Well, I mean, yes, they do, they still, AMG still build those engines,

but those engines are rather, but it's not like the 6.2, which was a bespoke ground up AMG engine.

So yeah, we'll see. So BMW has got recent history in allowing its, you could call them

subdivisions, I suppose, to do bespoke cars. BMW M did the XM, that big SUV. That went well.

I mean, it's such a shame that they chose, they finally did a clean sheet ground up bespoke car,

and it's a big, heavy hybrid SUV. Which looks like that.

Nevertheless, it's a bespoke car. You don't, you don't see many, do you?

You don't. That's a good point. You don't see many. But BMW I, of course, has done

I3 and I8 in the past, no longer. But those were bespoke cars. Yes. So maybe they're

and they didn't work either. Well, it's true. It's true. It's an awful thing to say. But, you know,

the XM, I don't believe has worked. The I3 didn't work. The I8 didn't work. And the I3 and the I8,

I'm on the record of saying they're some of my favorite cars that I've ever driven.

They were completely brilliant cars, but they didn't make BMW any money at all.

Yeah. Well, maybe they'll do it one more time and let Alpina build a bespoke car. And I have no idea

what form that might take. But that would be a, it would be a wonderful way to, for BMW,

to show that they cherish this thing that they have taken control of and that they want to do

right by it. Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath. Well, let's wait and see what BMW does with Alpina.

All right. Last thing. Go on. UK new car sales in 2025. I don't know anything about these.

I'm guessing not great. No, just over 2 million for the first time in a while,

up 3.5% over 2024. So these being viewed as quite strong numbers, not blockbuster,

but good given the conditions. Nearly half a million EVs, actually 473,348.

There's a pure EVs. Pure EVs. So hang on, are we saying that nearly a quarter of

new car sold in the UK were EVs last year? We're saying 23.4% specifically. So yeah,

nearly a quarter. Do we know what it was in 24? I don't have that number here. I think

473,000 is equivalent to 2020 and 2021 combined, or it might be 2021 and 2022 combined. So it's,

it's rising sharply. But do you know what the ZEV, the zero emissions vehicles mandate required

in 2025? Go on. 28%. We got to 23.4%. And as we know, there are massive fines to be paid.

Massive. For manufacturers in the UK that do not meet that. BMW did meet it by 0.1%.

Thanks in large part to electric minis. So great. BMW will tell you that it is possible.

But you don't know what they had to do to do it. You don't know what discounts they had to

offer. You don't know how many cars they had to register without actually selling them. I mean,

they're all sorts of ways of getting cars, making cars look like they've been sold

without revealing how much they sold for, who they sold to.

Yeah. The society for motor manufacturers and traders, which is the industry body,

estimates that the average discount on an EV in 2025 was more than £10,000.

And if you look at the numbers sold, that's worth more than £5 billion of discounting.

And still the sales lagged quite a long way behind the ZEV mandate.

And you just think of the effect on the residuals. That's what would really scare me

about buying, spending a 50 grand or whatever on a new EV. That's what would be really scaring me.

Because even if I thought I'm being really clever and I've got a 60 grand EV, 50 grand,

that will come back to bite you one day. It's a very interesting picture, isn't it?

Yeah. And recent developments, like VED now being applied to electric cars,

like congestion zone rates now applying, and not quite as much as petrol cars,

but very nearly as much as petrol cars, these are not great incentives.

That's before we've even got into road pricing. What is it, 3p a mile that

Rachel Reeves wants to impose on anybody who drives a car with, I think it's any amount of

electricity. So I think I'd be clobbered in my plug-in Range Rover, wouldn't I?

I think it's 1.5p per mile for plug-in hybrids and 3p per mile for EVs.

But what if you drive your plug-in hybrid when the battery is exhausted, which you'll be doing

in the Range Rover's case 50 miles after you started your journey?

Yeah, that's why.

And then you drive to Scotland?

I know, I know.

So you're paying 1.5p per mile for the petrol that you're using on top of all the tax that you've

already paid to buy the petrol in the first place?

Yeah. That's very bizarre.

Is it possible this plan hasn't been entirely thought through?

I think it's absolutely right. I mean, we're not going to get bogged down in that plan because

there are so many flaws in it. What I wanted to say was that the ZEV mandate requires that

33% of new cars sold in the UK this year are EVs.

We got to just over 23% last year.

So they've got to sell a third more EVs.

So that means, let's say it's 2 million, say, my maths isn't good enough,

but it's going to have to be sort of...

600,000 or so.

No, 650, getting on for 700,000 EVs.

Well, as we've said, as we're very happy to say relentlessly on this podcast,

EVs are getting much better all the time.

We're not offering an opinion about EVs here. We're just analysing the facts.

And what we're seeing here is that buyers are not buying EVs at the rates that the ZEV mandate

requires.

Yeah. Talking of EVs briefly, and again, this is a problem of

recording on a Thursday and broadcasting on a Monday.

Car of the Year reports on Friday, so you guys will already know the answer to this.

I sit on its jury and I voted for the Mercedes CLA to win it,

because it is completely transformative in the amount of...

Well, yes, it's got a range of about 480 miles without being massively heavy

or having an enormous battery or costing millions of pounds.

And it's just a really nice thing to be in.

I thought that was absolutely cracking car.

So I voted for that to be first.

There'll still be people saying that we're anti-EV, by the way.

Oh, absolutely. I hate them.

And you've just declared an EV.

And the car that I placed second was the Panda, which is another EV.

And I think I placed the Kier EV four-third, another EV, and the Renault four-fourth,

another EV.

I hate EVs.

So anyway, so that's why I don't think the Mercedes will win it,

because cars like that tend not to.

So I'm guessing...

It's the Panda, isn't it?

I think it's the Panda.

It's a cool car.

The only reason I'd kind of...

No, I'd be very happy the Panda wins.

I will be very happy if the Panda wins.

The only slight niggle I got is I know it's not the best car in its class,

because it's kind of an expensive Panda,

cost about the same as a cheap Renault 5.

I'm a brother of a Renault 5.

Yeah, OK.

But I do really like the Panda.

And if it wins, I won't be complaining at all.

Right, that's it.

OK, well, we'll know by the time this goes out,

whether we're right or wrong.

We will.

Well, let's wrap that one up there.

I told you it was a busy show with lots that we wanted to discuss.

So thanks, everyone, for listening.

I'm just going to remind you to follow the show.

If you're watching on YouTube, hit subscribe.

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but it also really, really helps us.

So please do that.

Any return, we'll be back with another episode next week.

And we will see you then.

Has our Range Rover finally broken down? #296

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