How Honda Changed the Car World | Inside 38 Years of Car Design with Dave Marek

Hi there, welcome to The Inevitable.

Ed, you're slipping.

Oh, sorry.

This is Motor Trends Podcast, our podcast

about the future of the car, the future of mobility,

where are we going, how are we going to get there,

and once again, who designs these things?

Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by Motor Trend.

This is a guy that I've wanted to have on for a long time.

I don't know why I didn't just text him earlier and get him on,

but he just retired after a 38-year career,

which is sort of unheard of in this industry.

Well, probably never happened again,

but his name is Dave Merrick, and he worked for Honda.

But before we get to him, this guy, Ed Lowe,

has a special message just for you.

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But let's talk about Dave Merrick, the man,

the myth, the legend.

It's weird he retired, because I've been doing this now 21 years.

You've been a little longer.

Like he's always been Honda.

He's Honda Design.

He's been Honda since 1987.

We talked a little bit about that.

87, I was in maybe sixth grade.

Yes, he was at the peak started during the peak

of the Japanese automotive industry in America,

in terms of the rise.

Yet, remember, he exited as a global creative director.

He'd worked on a lot of the Acura stuff.

I mean, he basically had been it.

He has been associated with Honda and Acura

like a year after Acura was established.

And again, just a little bit of context before we get into it.

Like, if you weren't alive then,

or if you weren't paying attention to cars then,

like, man, that was a transitional period

in the automotive industry, like Acura first,

and then really Lexus.

But Infinity also, like, where did these guys come from?

Like, suddenly, the Japanese, which was, you know, small,

the way we used to think of Korean cars about 10 years ago,

small cheap economy boxes, suddenly they were making

credible luxury, credible sports cars that were throwing

not only Detroit, but like Germany and England on their ears.

Like, you know, the NSX was as good as a Ferrari

and it started every time.

No Ferrari ever started.

You know, the legend was a better sports sedan

than what BMW was making, you know, it was,

and they started every time and they cost half the price.

Like, it was, people were really worried

that Japan was about to take over the world.

And it was a thing, you know, it was...

And we talk a lot about it with Dave,

but first we get into his transition,

or his graduation, if you will.

So let's get Dave on here and see what he's doing.

Dave Merrick.

Hi.

Retired.

Retired, retired.

We recently retired as of...

January 1st.

No kidding.

So we're recording this, you're 20, 21 days into your...

Is this the first time you've worn pants in 21 days?

What else would you wear?

If I was retired?

Oh, sorry, sorry.

I will admit that early in the morning when I'm really...

When I'm doing Dave Merrick design stuff,

I literally don't mind walking around in sweatpants

or lack of...

I will admit it, but by 10, you know,

I start to feel self-conscious or something.

Well, let's say cheers to his retirement,

and also cheers you for turning 50, but...

Don't talk about that.

You're doing dry jant, anything?

I told you, I did dry martinis.

Oh, he's super dry.

All right.

They're drinking coffee, it's good.

Ooh.

Ah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Well, what's it like being retired?

Is it weird?

Was it weird?

Are we ready?

I was ready, I think.

I thought it would be...

I wasn't sure, a lot of people told me,

oh man, be careful, it's gonna be really different.

Your whole identity is Honda, you're...

And I kept thinking, I don't think it is.

I think I'm kind of, that's part of it,

but I thought as time went on, I was really,

my personality is more, let's let these guys do it,

and I'll enable them to do it.

And I think that the ultimate retirement was

to let Tsuchita-san and those guys just continue on

and go with it and do it, and I'll support it anyway I can.

So it's not, it's actually, I don't miss the drive.

That's for sure.

And I find that I have more time to devote to,

not just hobbies and stuff like that,

but actual the craft we've been doing,

car design and how to employ AI,

how to employ software and different processes into it,

and not necessarily designing a car,

because I told Honda I wouldn't design cars,

but I will do the graphics on race cars

and things like that,

and kind of just help people when they need help, I guess.

How long have you been there?

38 and a half year, 39.

And so you're one of the rare lifers, like you left school.

Yeah, only play favorite.

And did you internship at Honda?

Straight through our center.

Straight through, got hired.

Two years, eight months.

For some reason, I was driven to do it,

and I thought, I don't want to go to Detroit

in the middle of school for an internship

and interrupt what I'm on a roll.

I give too much information always.

I think one of the things that happened

when I was at Art Center,

they decided to go from the Christmas break.

So it's trimesters, so in between is three weeks, forever.

And they decided when I was second term

to do a four week Christmas break.

So to do that, everybody that I was in school with,

we had to do two week breaks to make up

for the four, like to catch up to it.

So not only did I go straight through,

I did two week breaks.

Yeah, it was crazy.

And so 87, you graduated with a degree

in industrial design from Art Center.

You broke in the streak,

we had a bunch of CCS guys on here.

Oh, no kidding.

So you're, are you sure?

Back to Art Center.

There is still some Art Center guys.

We were the official, like unofficial podcast

of Art Center for a long time.

Yeah.

Then we got a bunch of CCS folks in here.

And during your time there,

well, two years and eight months,

you got what, a small overlap with Ikeda, with John Ikeda?

Just, it was almost the last semester, maybe two semesters.

John, I was, I more overlap with John

because I was, I immediately started teaching.

And I would be up at school all the time

and got to know those guys.

I mean, my history with John was

that Mr. Auto was head of Wave Studio,

which was our first advanced design studio.

And he, he didn't know any US designers or students.

So he asked me to go,

I mean, I might be at, you know,

at Honda for like a year and a half.

They're already having me going to bed

and hey, can you go interview these guys?

So I picked John as one of the four to go to Japan.

So John, we had, for those who don't know,

John Ikeda, we had him on, he was episode 46.

At the time he was the, essentially the head of Acura.

He's now the head of HRC, which is Honda.

He's the SVP.

So Dave Salters is president.

But that's the racing side

and John is head of the marketing side.

Marketing side, right.

The new business kind of thing.

Yeah, it's gonna be great.

Which is cool.

Like it's, it's got,

no, actually, you might, I don't know if you know this,

the breaking news recently is that Honda has a new logo.

Yes.

Was that primarily for the Formula One piece?

Or nothing?

No, no, it was more to update.

So the studio in Japan,

it was, we've been working on new logos for,

well, 39 years.

Yeah.

So I think, yeah, it was in the making for a long time.

And finally, it's kind of,

let's just put it on the cars and call it a day, you know.

Cause it replaces, it replaces what the,

the Honda, the big Honda, all the block,

the block font, and the H-bench.

The H-bench.

And it says, it's kind of a cool inverted,

wider at the top and narrow at the bottom.

H.

It's, it's the original H.

It's the original H, right.

It is the original H.

I mean, it's, it's, it's a modernization of the original H.

But it's flared a little more.

But the original H was always like that.

It was.

Kind of cool.

It's, it kind of feels like, because they've also just done,

they put all the racing under HRC.

Yeah.

Which is also a neat, unifying thing.

Right.

Cause they had HPD here for a while.

The smart company would do that.

Like get them all under the same hat.

Right, right, right.

But I, you know, I'm a little bummed out

because to me, HRC means like motorcycles.

Yeah.

Which is, which is the bottom of it.

That was some of it.

Super bummed, right?

That was some of it.

That they, you know, it's kind of like that's ours.

But it makes total sense to me to be, you know, global.

I guess.

So, I looked, I did your, I did a little background on you.

And well, but what were you doing before?

What were the, what were the big things you were doing

before you retired?

Cause that seems to be a little bit missing with at Honda Acura.

So my, I was still going to Japan,

still doing the, the RSX, you know,

we were doing the show car and then doing that car.

And, and so that's, it's kind of, you know,

if you know how a car gets built, it's not overnight.

So, so we, I was still following up on that

and finishing that.

And we were doing like the next cars that are coming out.

And so it was like just nonstop doing that.

And then, you know, the retirement became that Minami-san,

who is the Honda executive creative director,

he was going to be accurate.

And then Tsuchita-san is the creative director.

So, so it worked out that it's,

it's all under that roof more or less.

It's not separated anymore.

Who's replacing you?

Tsuchita-san.

Tsuchita-san's replacing you.

Yeah. Yeah. And he's great.

He's, he's really cool and he's,

yeah. He's, he's according to most people,

he's quieter than me.

No way.

But I, I can't imagine that, but.

I know you can't talk about Future Parks,

probably because you signed a stack of NDAs on your way out.

But how far, like, when will the last thing you touch

see the light of day?

I would say 30.

Wow.

Maybe.

That's how advanced.

29.

Yeah.

I mean, there's stuff that, that we did that, you know,

you'll never see, but it would have been 35, you know,

things like that.

Oh, wow.

So.

Very cool.

And then, you know, there's a lot of, I think,

my, my role was so weird cause I was,

I guess I was nosy.

So I would, I would get into everything.

Right.

So I would get into, like, one of the reasons I retired

on January 1st, instead of the 31st,

I was going to do the 31st.

And one reason I probably shouldn't tell everybody this,

but is that the rich Richardson,

who was head of all on the, like, human resource,

he said, yeah, if you retire the first,

you get your healthcare till January 31st.

I was like, well, that makes sense to me.

But the real reason was that I was helping

with the Rose Parade float.

And I thought I'm done on the 31st.

Right.

So I could go to the parade as a retiree,

but then I waited the extra day.

But that, so I was doing that.

I was doing a lot of the,

you probably recently saw the, the Bay Station.

Yes.

You know, so that, doing a lot of that.

I miss it.

What's there?

Trips to Indiana, which is fantastic.

Bay Station's an RV.

It's the trailer, sorry.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And motor compact, you know, all that stuff,

you know, all the extraneous stuff.

And that's what I always thought was interesting about you

was that you were always like,

like standing there like,

this is the livery I did for the Lamont car.

Yeah, I mean, I,

Whereas most head of design,

they had somebody that did the livery.

But you were, you were always like,

yeah.

And that kind of stuff.

And I'd see you at every race.

All the HRC stuff is like,

Billy Axe and I at, at, at R&D,

we were doing all that stuff.

And it's, I guess it's, it's part of it is,

you did the car, so you should do the,

you know best what the livery should look like, I guess.

Well, let me, let me drop a little bomb, bomb on you.

Did you have anything to do with the Honda, the prelude?

No.

No?

No.

Okay.

Did not.

And I don't know if it's going to be an Acura,

if you're going to ask me that.

No, I don't.

But well, in your, you're a lifer at Honda.

I saw it a lot.

You saw it a lot.

Well, can I ask you something?

And I'm going to queue up.

Let me read my.

Let me queue up the pictures.

How did we get here?

Okay. Here is the prelude.

For those of you listening.

They copied us.

The prelude's on the left.

Here's a, here's a Ferrari Pure Sangui.

Go, go back, go, go back one, Brent.

So sorry.

Here's the, in the blue car, Honda prelude,

the red car, Toyota Prius.

Okay. Now for timeline, the red car did come out.

Two years ago.

Next slide.

Ferrari Pure Sangui.

This is the SUV.

Also came out two years ago.

With the time it came out,

everybody was ripping on Ferrari.

No, because the Toyota Crown came out

and has the same sort of size and shape.

Yes, there's a lot of people in there.

Well, the circles I man was just the,

everyone would post a picture of a Mazda three,

hard side, hard side of this.

Next, I mean, next one.

You just, here's Camry.

Yeah.

Right.

Can I, so.

Do you have the accord like the, the previous accord?

Cause it, it was where it started with a.

Oh, you think, oh, really?

What year accord?

I mean, it's just that.

So that, that kind of beveled front and the square

and front and the thin, that was,

we've always been trying to do that.

I think that's, it's a valid point,

but you know, you get the same designers

from schools in the hell.

So, so first of all, it is a valid.

I'm not, I'm not seeing things like these.

And for the listeners, we put all of the noses

on the same screen, on the screen at the same time.

And they all, I think, who calls it the hammerhead?

Is that, I think Toyota might call it.

It's not Ferrari.

The hammerhead.

Not, not us.

I know the, we call the ARX, the race car, the hammerhead.

Okay.

But I think that it's, you know, it's,

it's probably a, a lining of planets or something

where nobody knew that somebody else was doing it, but,

you know, it ends up.

So Ferrari, I can speak a little bit.

The Ferrari softer for sure.

I was just hanging out with them.

But they're, they're now on the new Amalfi.

They call that black line.

They call it the groove.

Yeah.

And their thing was, okay.

And again, it's, it's desired to have some more whiskey.

Please, please.

Thanks, Ed.

Yeah, no problem.

So the other thing was like, okay,

you start with a pure form of a car.

And then every time you got to put a door handle

or a headlight or an intake, that hurts.

That's painful.

So you want to minimize that.

So every, every one of their like sensors and D,

everything mandated by the government.

It's weird though.

They stick in this groove.

Don't you think it's weird?

I, because I think that if you don't have cool cut lines

or entertainment around the car,

if you, other than a 49 Ford that's shaved,

which has flames all over it,

but they, they, they get a little sterile, I think,

when you don't do it.

They, they can't, I, I think, like, so,

I've got a Flavio blanking on his last name,

head of design of Ferrari, with an M, sorry.

But he was, I was having dinner with him

and he was saying that like, the, the, the fact that cars

are anthropomorphic, that you see a face.

Yeah.

Fur wants to get away from that.

They're done.

Well, I think everybody does.

But why?

I think it's great.

Well, no, I agree.

Everybody's trying to do no, no headlights, you know,

or through the body.

What, what are we looking at?

That's the crown.

That's, that's the, that's the same face on the SUV.

Yeah, that's almost that.

That's the same thing.

That looks like the, that looks like the camera.

It's camera, right.

Which it is.

Okay.

So, okay.

So it is a, it is a fair observation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's.

And you think this all came from the same designers

going to school together?

Somewhat or just a moment in time

that people are thinner headlights.

Italians definitely weren't.

Well, I mean, I think that.

At the same schools.

Honestly, it happens all the time.

Yes.

And we're, we're like in the studio, walk by and I would say,

you know, that, I liked that when I first saw that

on a, you know, Dodge Demon or whatever it is.

It happens a lot.

It could be if you have interns that influence

when they go back and.

But doesn't, okay, but, but let's say,

cause I'm trying to figure out which accord you're referencing

that maybe, maybe had this first.

But the moment, is the moment, cause let's say the,

I can't see now, we can't figure out.

Oh, the Prius.

I think the Prius is one of the earliest ones.

The minute you guys saw, cause that's a high volume

selling car globally, right?

Right.

The minute you saw that, would you internally

at Honda be like, oh.

Well, I think that the, the slit is on,

that, you know, if you look at some of the,

the recent cars coming out as you've got the work,

you know, you either have a big giant grill

or you do that.

So prologue has a strip, you know, it's like.

Right, right.

But do you, but internally do you guys,

do they, does there any head smacking and like too late?

Can we do anything?

Or no, you just.

That's what I don't know.

But if it's us, I'll say that looks too much like.

So.

But also there's a lot of it like,

okay, air was very, very important currently.

Headlights have gotten very, very small suddenly.

And then, you know, grills were outie sized forever.

Take the bumper out.

Yeah.

And there's a, isn't it just like a swing bag?

Like remember, we, you know, when you did that,

like when the Q45 was happening, no grills.

Right, right.

We can make grills so small.

I think a lot of it also is, you know,

with electrification and everybody jumped on that

bandwagon, how do you make your ICE cars make,

look current with those?

Right.

And you have to kind of like,

have a bottom breather or how do you do that?

So I think that's what happens too.

You're, how do you make a ICE car look modern?

More than anything.

Right, right, right.

Cause you, you know what I mean though?

Like, like I was noticing it.

I'm not going to answer your question Ed.

No, no, you did, you did.

I'm looking at the 10th generation Civic now.

And it's, I'm sorry, cord.

And it's, the Civic had,

Not quite as, the 16 Civic had the,

that's pretty thin through there and across.

You know what I mean?

How like the Toyota Avalon grill was past the tires.

It was the widest, it was ridiculous.

Like how he started that trend and, you know.

The, the Baleen whale.

Yeah, yeah, you know, and, and, and then it just, it like,

and like all fashion trends, it gets to an absurd point.

It does.

And then finally people say, mm, and then it.

I'm, I'm notorious at work for just like, I would say,

it looks like, you know, Jonathan Winters.

Or I mean, I would just say like somebody,

a personality or that, you know, and, and people would look

and I'd bring up a picture and they'd go, oh dude.

Like what?

I kind of don't.

That's why they gave him all the time.

You look like somebody, then I show that picture.

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of it.

Now for the record, I think they're all actually

quite handsome faces.

And I don't mind the execution.

Just the fact that they all did it at the same time.

To me it's hilarious.

And that one's a Ferrari.

Yeah, I mean.

It's a $600,000 Ferrari.

Not just a Ferrari.

Yeah, the Ferrari's the softest one.

It's kind of weird.

Yeah.

Um, okay.

We can take it down.

Um, let's, let's, uh, let's.

We can do more of that.

I know.

Dave's gonna hit.

No, let's start.

I was gonna go to some of, some of your earliest,

the earliest hits.

The one year bio in your, in your online bio you are

accredited with is the 1997 Acura CL.

Oh.

Is that accurate?

Yes.

Okay.

In that, what?

You did the extra, you did the whole thing?

The nuts?

Or the.

Well, the exterior mainly.

Okay.

Because a lot of it is shared.

Right.

And that one, I'm pretty proud of it because

we had to keep the Accord windshield and door and.

Yeah, so it's the, you're kind of.

The Accord coupe.

You had to keep the coupe.

The, the.

Well, the, the.

I mean, it was both.

It was a four door.

Yeah.

So it was like literally.

Oh, right.

You had to massage around that and, and keep the hard

points and stuff, which everybody does, you know, but.

But I, I think the, the, the rear, you know, with the,

with the break in the back and, and stamping that was

impossible at East Liberty plant.

And they, everybody freaked out and, but I, I will say

the other night I saw a car chase and it was a CL.

And I was like, and I, I swear to God, it, it had polished

wheels and a white one and it looked really nice.

I was like, wow, that guy, even though he's running from

the law, he kept the car pretty nice.

That's one of the LA sentiments.

It was totally like, you know, I, you, you guys know me.

So I may be at a bar occasionally and I was at the

bar and they had the car chase and they go, what kind of

car, every time, what kind of car is that Dave?

Cause they know, I'll know.

It's like.

I did that.

Hey, I did that car.

Like, what are you talking about?

So what was the mood?

Like, cause you probably started this.

It's a 97.

So you were at 92, 33.

I'm doing this car.

Yeah.

I think that was, that one was in the works for a while

because it was going to be built in us.

Right.

So it was kind of like a big thing to, to start working

on it sooner so we could figure out what to do.

Johnny and I were in high school during the time you

started driving the 92.

Yeah.

I was starting my senior year.

But yeah.

This is the era of big Japan, right?

This is when, when Sony, I think bought all of, all of LA.

Japanese bought Pebble Beach, they've taken over.

Right.

So, and of course Honda, Toyota, Nissan, everybody on the

rise.

Well, in the luxury brand, Acura, Lexus and.

Well, that was it.

It was kind of like.

Killing Detroit.

You know.

How do you, you know, Acura always had the meandering road

that, you know, started with Precision Crafter.

Then it, it meandered, but I think we always had it in our

mind to do Precision Crafter performance.

So you, I mean, you were literally, you were doing this,

you were starting to draw this the year or two after the NSX?

Yeah.

So.

It must have been like a awesome place to be.

Oh, right.

You're like.

My first day, it was the Accord, Wagon and NSX

rear ends.

Really?

Here, draw these.

I was like, what are we doing here, man?

This is GT40.

Well, those are your rear ends.

Yeah.

Well, at the time it was like a lot of split tail lights

and GT40 looking and, and I was like, holy crap.

I didn't, because I didn't know going in.

Sure.

I, what I liked about Honda was, you know, I had

instructors at Art Center and they taught what the Honda

process was, you know, you do a concept and you work

through the buyer, all that stuff.

And, and that fascinated me to not just go draw cars, but

do the whole business side.

I mean, do you have any part of your drawing, anything you drew

on the, on that 91, the NSX, the original NSX?

No, no, no.

In fact, we did like Truman Pollard from there's a bunch

of guys that worked at once.

A lot of guys, we had done a bunch of rear ends, but it was

done and then they, they wind tunneled it and changed it.

They changed that whole wing, you know, the flat wing and

the arrow part.

Yeah.

They changed that after all the sketches were done and

everything, but yeah, it turned out amazing.

And it's classic.

But yeah, it was just the fact that I got to work on it was

like, holy crap.

It is a classic weird.

If you watch the movie, first of all, this is a, you know,

date the reference because it's our generation.

We already mentioned Jonathan Winters.

Well, if you watch Pulp Fiction, Winston Wolfe does a

burnout in the, in the silver NSX, and you just see that

rear on shot.

It's so good.

Yeah.

So what was, what was, I want to actually back up to a little

bit of Art Center just for a second, but like, we always ask

people like, how did you find out about Art Center?

Like, did you always want to draw cars?

Did you want to, do you want to draw washing machines?

Like, how did you figure it out?

I always wanted to draw washing machines.

Yeah.

Same, same.

Ted Yonkin, you draw a cube and then put a lid on it.

I swear to God, honestly, God truth, I didn't think it

was real, but I remember the Smithsonian article is my dad.

My dad was adamant that I should do this.

Do you have artistic talent in you like cars?

Yeah, I mean, I do, I was drawing cars all the time.

I did everything.

I drew cars all the time when I sucked.

I mean, I drew all the time everywhere on anything.

What were you drawing?

Everything.

Everything, cars mainly, but anything.

What cars?

Sports cars.

I would draw.

Jeeps, tanks.

Basically, I would draw people's go, hey, draw my Volkswagen.

Draw my, you know, it's like, oh yeah, okay.

But when I draw by myself, it was almost always race cars.

Like, like 99% all of them.

F1 to dragsters to NASCAR.

Like NASCAR cars.

I would, but it was just, I would do a lot of funny cars and a lot of F1 cars and a lot

of Indy cars and just all the time.

But I was, I was drawing plan views and doing like crazy.

A lot of times I was thinking, which is what I do now.

So I'm almost 70 and I'm still drawing stuff to make a car model out of it, you

know, like a scale model.

So when I was little, I would do that.

How did you know to draw a plan view?

That's tough down, tough down.

Yeah, just, I just, I wanted to show the suspension.

I'll tell you, one of my, the best sketches, drawings, magazine cover ever is

Ed Newton's Ice Trek.

And that sketch and yeah, it was probably 67 or somewhere around there.

And I, you know, Galpin has it now.

They have the actual car, but I, I fell in love with that sketch and I thought,

I want to do that, but I didn't know that you could.

So I studied and I, you know, my mother wanted me to be a senator, just go

into politics and be great.

You know, and everybody said, I always, well, I had to do a lot of politics.

So I was like, but I think I always wanted to do academic stuff, you know,

be smarter than the guy in the room or whatever.

And my dad was like, no, no, you need to, you need to do this thing that you

love to do.

Right.

And so we took a trip down to Arts Center.

He just, he said, let's just go down to Southern California and look at it.

Where were you from?

I grew up in Lake Tahoe and went Sacramento.

Okay.

Both, you know, we had houses and both.

So your dad knew about Arts Center?

Oh yeah, yeah, from, from coming down to LA for political events and so I literally,

I walk in the galley like, like every Arts Center student should.

And I walk in and just go, I almost cried.

You know, it's like, oh my God, this is real.

So I ran home and did a present, the whole portfolio to submit.

I heard, I read your bio, like you turned it around.

It was like, I literally was calling them the next day.

Like I'm sending this.

Can I, am I in, am I in, am I in?

I think they let me in just to shut me out.

You graduated from university, right?

You were, this is your second degree.

Oh, what was your first year?

I was just, just Humanities and Fine Arts.

Oh, I didn't realize that.

Yeah.

And it was literally probably four schools that I had gone to just.

But so you didn't.

So in other words, you're, you're in college getting a degree when you're

still drawing cars constantly and you just never, it's so funny

when no one ever puts two into the game.

Got married.

Yeah.

Had a job.

I was a printer.

Oh, no.

I was a printer to put myself through school.

Yeah.

And yeah, but like, like printing, like typeset.

I, well, I did, I ran a press, you know, like a, um.

My dad owned a quick copy.

No, no kidding.

Well, I knew, I used to know how to set up the.

Mine was big.

So it was the state printing plant.

Oh, that's bigger.

It, we, we, we did school books and, you know, it's a giant.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And the honcho and.

That's crazy.

That must have helped out, actually.

It was, I'll tell you, do stuff with paper and models.

All of that, it also taught me, like I worked with a lot of, I always tell

this story and it's not primed.

I mean, it's fine, but I, I'm walking in one time and I was working graveyard.

So I loved working graveyard because I was going to school and I, I walk in

and there was a guy, Kelly was running one of the platin presses, which is a

small one and you run it yourself.

And he had a fulsome prison shirt on with no, no, no sleeves.

I go, I said, um, dude, I mean, I'm 17.

You know, I go, dude, that's an awesome shirt.

Where'd you get that?

And he goes, where the F do you think I got it?

And I was like, and so my dad told me later that my dad used to go, he would

go to, he worked there too.

So that's how I got the job in nepotism at its best, but it was a state, you

know, so he, he would go to all the, the state prisons and, and help them learn

that the trade.

So I think what I remember, but my dad, we always had a, we had one, you know,

one guy would run the printing press and they were usually ex-cons.

Well, I think it got me to, to understand life, maybe cause it, it, I, I

think instead of getting to art center with, you know, like, why died?

I was like, dude, I've been through a bunch of stuff with these guys.

So it helped a lot, but I, I, I always thought that, um, that that, um,

understanding of art center was, I, I'll tell you that the printing plant, I don't

think it's, I think it moved, but it was on Richard's Boulevard by the, it was

by the SP yard, the big giant in Sacramento was like the giant.

It's probably the biggest railroad yard.

And so I would see old trains and yeah.

And I loved those.

So it was, it was like perfect, but I, I think every one of those guys that was

a hundred percent behind me doing this, like I'm moving.

I'm going to go do this and they're all getting, you're going to be good.

That's cool.

That's, that's great.

So, and then so, so Honda, you get to Honda, what, and besides drawing the rear

end of cars that are in production, basically, what was your first like Honda

that like you can say, like Dave Merrick designed that?

Like what was your first?

The Accord wagon, the, the, the 94 Accord wagon.

94 Accord wagon.

Yeah.

The 90 I worked on with Doug, Doug Howard.

Um, and we did, you know, it was already in Accord and so we stuck a wagon on it.

But the, the 94 was a negotiation with, um, like Japan doing the four door and

doing the two door at the same time.

So we were doing all of them and a lot of they, they, you know, compromise some

areas like the, the rear door is a little taller than they wanted the, the, the

sedan to be because we needed to make a wagon out of it.

Oh, interesting.

So stuff like that, that.

Can we, can you pull up a 94 Accord wagon?

I got it.

You got it?

Well, I'm going to put it on the screen so we can make it brand work.

You know, I can tell you.

It's a video podcast.

I, uh, I bring up the one that I really like.

I was at SEMA this year.

1994.

I'm looking at it right now.

Yeah.

Very sporty.

I had a 91 Accord.

So they were great.

Accord.

I think Accord manual, the base model with only the one mirror.

It's the perfect car.

Yeah.

It was so much fun to drive.

Do, do, uh, 2000, 2025 SEMA Accord wagon speaker car.

I don't know if it'll come up, but it might.

That was so proud.

Speaker car.

Yeah.

Just that, that's all I could describe it as.

This one, the one with all, the one with all the speakers in the door.

Yeah.

And it's now that's giving, um, there's a specific condition that people have that

when they see, uh, like lots of circles, my sister has it.

And they will try, try, try panophobe.

Try panophobe.

I didn't say panophobe, but yeah.

Or it's an octopus.

Uh, it's like, oh yeah.

No, it's, and there, there is a phobia.

It's, it's, it's, uh, like lots of little holes.

But it was in the Accord wagon.

It was like, holy crap.

That's dang.

Yeah.

I was so proud.

I mean, that's so 90s.

Look at that.

Anyway, yeah, that was, I mean, I, I still see him on the road and think, wow,

that, it's pretty elegant for an Accord.

If you put, like I had one.

So I put Jarrah wheels on it.

So I, I, I was plus one and, and you know, lowered it a little and yeah, it looked

cool.

It was, it was nice.

Um, you also are accredited with, uh, the original, um, Honda, found it.

Element.

I didn't, I'm, I'm the head of, I was the head of the, of the studio.

So they, the Ridgeline was, um, Don Hurner and Jared Hall did the sketches.

The element story is awesome because the element was, I was probably the guy that,

that hammered executives in Japan a lot on that car.

To do it?

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, and why, what was the inspiration real quick?

Before you tell it, like, why was there a second gen that was such a great vehicle

and also like with electrification that could once again, it was be such a great

vehicle, it was ahead of its time.

But let's talk about it.

It was ahead of its time.

It was also, um, but CRV era.

I'm not saying we did the right thing or not, but you know, if you have plants that

are pumping out cars that are selling great.

Right.

Why, why, and it's such an icon to us.

But CRV was selling like crazy.

Yeah.

The element was the icon.

That's what I'm saying.

The element was an icon, but CRVs were selling.

It's just so cracked.

I remember, I remember a friend of mine, um, we, we were, we would load engines into

the back of it like, like VW engines.

They were like, this is the ideal engine.

It was a shop car for the street.

It was perfect for a shop car or a florist.

The way, you know, you could do anything with it.

Such a cool car.

I also was a knits, uh, I think that, uh, so the, the side impact.

Side impact.

Side in and narrow off to, I think a lot of that came into it too.

So let's, let's push, let's push pause real fast because people, we have some people

like, what are you guys talking about?

So in 2003 Honda dropped this, this box man.

Okay.

It was front, front, front drive.

Also all wheel drive as a 2.4 liter or two liter, 2.4 liter, I don't know.

Came in manual and automatic.

Um, it had, so it had what do you call them?

Rear, rear opening.

It was wide side doors.

We call it suicide doors.

Suicide doors.

One suicide door.

Right.

But you can't say that.

So you can, you open.

They didn't want us to.

Yes.

Homicide doors.

Rear, rear-facing doors.

With no B-pillar.

So getting in and out was great.

The B-pillar was in the door.

Was in the door.

Yeah.

It's a five passenger, right?

Five seat belts.

It was, it was four.

Four seat, four seat belts.

More importantly, you pull the seats out.

It was four.

Well, you can fold them up onto the side.

Yeah.

Kind of like a old school Land Cruiser and it had a lift, uh, pop-out window.

Yeah.

Which I remember because Wes Allison, our long-time photographer,

he shot for us.

He shot for all the Peterson publications for a long time.

He would only buy that car or the Astrovan.

Right.

Oh, no.

Because you can shoot, no.

Out of, oh, out of the car.

Out of it, out of it from the back.

No kidding.

And pull the.

Yeah, because it was set back.

Yes.

And pull the hatch down when the cops come.

Well, that whole thing was that you could stand in it while you were a surfer and change

clothes.

Yeah, so cool.

Spray out interior.

So, in my mind, this was, this was like the FJ Cruiser for Honda.

This was like the.

Yeah.

There.

Defender.

Lifestyle.

Future lifestyle.

All-wheel drive vehicle.

It was perfect.

You know, more practical.

Also, square in the era that, you know, Toyota had Sion was coming out.

Nissan brought the Cube kind of a couple years later.

We should show those because we were first and then they.

You were first.

Exactly.

You should show an element.

Well, it was kind of a little military ambulance is what I used to call it.

But I'll tell you that Bernie Bernard Lee, he, he's at Tesla, but he did that.

We did, you know, Honda, we would do offsite.

We called them Y guys, but it was like a three day brain storming.

We went to the X games in San Diego and we broke into four groups with sales engineering.

You know, it's just SED.

So design people and so each group had a designer and we in Bernie.

So I was, I was chief designer then.

So we did, I was like circling through the groups watching.

Anyway, Bernie did a napkin like that and it's the element.

I mean, literally it is the element.

Do you still have that?

Yeah, I did.

Eric Shoemaker was the project leader.

And he did a presentation where it starts with Bernie sketch and it ends with the actual element

and shows every iteration we made clay models and it never changed.

It changed once because one of the executives in Japan, Hiramatsu maybe,

he said that we, we claimed that it would hold a 10 and a half foot board.

And, and it was a little short.

He's trying to shove it up into the windshield and get it like, like this.

And so we extended the back maybe about a hundred mil just so it would fit.

Yeah.

But that's you, you claim to do it.

So do it.

Yeah, but that was just like, I, when that got, when there wasn't a second gen, I was like,

yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot.

Had you drawn a second gen?

There's probably 30 second gens that floated around and never made it.

We did, I remember one of my favorite arts center projects was,

because I would always say, Hey, let's do an arts center project.

We did, we had money left over from a budget, but not a lot.

It wasn't enough for a project up there.

So I talked to, I think at the time, well, I guess it was probably Stuart just coming in maybe.

And I said, you know, what if we, can we do a project with like half,

like 40 grand or something like that.

And we came up with one of the, does a norm did it, but it was one of the,

a norm Sherman who passed away, but his class, it was like a sketching class.

So we said, do accessories for the element.

It was like, they were amazing.

It, I think a lot of that stuff ended up kind of like what the, the base station has.

You know, but I think that car, you know, every time somebody comes up with,

Hey, let's make this.

It's either the CRX or the element.

Right, right, right, right.

Every time.

Right, right.

Cause those are beloved Honda.

And that's it.

Or out of production.

Yeah.

I mean, that's it.

Right, right.

That makes sense.

Okay.

So were you, you were ahead of this, you had a Honda design at the time that came out.

Also this, when Ridgeline was being done.

Yeah.

Okay.

So another example of Honda being ahead of the curve.

This is, I mean, you guys were the first compact, like unibody pickup truck.

Yep.

Right.

Like this was, when was Avalanche?

That was, that was, that was full size.

Well, Avalanche was a super.

But it was also a ladder frame, I think.

Yeah.

No, it was a truck.

It was a truck.

Okay.

But it was after, it was after.

You were thinking of like the, the Maverick.

So you're going to bring it up.

You're going to make the sale panel.

That was, yeah, we were first.

Yeah.

So you got, well, the Cybertruck.

Well, yeah, yeah.

So let's, let's talk about it.

Because the Ridgeline, I think is important now because you did do a second generation of that.

It's been kind of all the trial, all the real truck guys.

Yeah.

Looks always at it.

But it's, it's, it's done well enough.

And the people who love the Ridgeline really do love the Ridgeline.

They buy them all the time.

They get, they get pretty good fuel economy.

They're, they're, they're good.

They're great as a truck.

And now to his point, he just mentioned Maverick's out there.

It's a truck of the year.

Right.

You got these guys.

Tello, bringing out a small truck.

Hyundai Santa Cruz.

You got the Hyundai Santa Cruz.

But like, talk like, Honda is really good.

You think everybody should just thank us for a, well, sort of.

Figuring it out.

And then copy it.

Yes.

Because actually the, I think the knock on the Ridgeline,

I would say professionally, and I've been doing this over 20 years now,

this guy is the biggest Ridgeline fan I've ever encountered in the industry.

That's not, that's not true.

No, it is.

I like the, I like the Ridgeline.

You love, I've never heard anyone.

I've seen, I, and I like white space vehicles.

I also know that when it came out, one of the knocks on it, because well,

it sucks when you tow stuff, right?

The, the wheels kind of flare out.

But also it was considered a little pricey and now all the trucks are like astronomical.

Right.

Well, that's fair.

That's fair.

But I know the, the second gen, we dropped like a refrigerator in Ohio on like four different

trucks, including ours, like from 30 feet up.

And the Ridgeline, it just kind of bounced a little bit.

The other one's toast.

So I will say that.

I won't say who, but yeah, it was like, oh dude.

What year?

What year did you use?

Like in 18, maybe?

You dropped the refrigerator to show how tough they were?

Yeah.

Or just for fun?

No, to show how the Ridgeline would fall down.

No, no, no, no, no, internal stuff.

Like into the bed?

Yeah.

Oh, this is like the, you remember when, when F-150 came out with the aluminum bed

and Chevy was showing ads with the toolbox?

Yeah, it was just like that.

It was like penetrating.

I was like, this is, this is why I love the truck industry.

Yeah.

Because the truck got so fine.

It's ruthless.

They just beat up on it.

Which is why probably subconsciously we went, you look, it's white space.

It's our neck of the woods.

Let's just make, we'll do the contractor's truck and you can get the workers' trucks.

Go ahead.

Right.

We'll do the cool truck that you can go home and take your kids in.

I mean, the original Ridgeline, you know, the fit, it's a fit.

It's like a, it's like a large fit because the fit, you know, you fold that seat up

in the magic seat and you're like, Jesus, this is, we are so good at that stuff.

Like the magic seat.

I still remember that when that first fit showed up in like 2006, 2007.

Well, in the Odyssey with the, the J Odyssey.

But the, but yeah, but the fit, which was the jazz.

Yeah.

But when that came, I remember it was like, it was probably 2005.

And I remember I had a press car and I, and I had a bicycle.

And I remember like, you know, putting that seat in a bicycle fit into this miniature car.

I remember we had a, when we first had the fit, we had dogs running through it.

They were running just through the car like, oh, that was cool.

Yeah.

They, I think that the beauty of the Ridgeline was that, that when we did the press, I was,

so I'm on the board of directors for Lions Museum, the foundation.

And Tom Elliott is on it.

And Tom's longtime Honda, he was head of product planning.

He was never sales.

People think he was sales, but he was, he influenced sales.

But he was, he was like product side.

But he, I, he did all the, the speaking at all the Detroit auto show.

And what made me, what made me laugh was that we were talking about it the other day.

And at that press conference, Ford had, it was when GM had moved to the back and, and we took

that space and Ford had built that big long, like that whole front wall of stuff.

And they had an upper deck.

So they had stairs that went up and I, and so Tom came out and he said,

good afternoon, everybody.

I'd like to thank Ford for providing bleachers and the next year they were gone.

I was like, but I, we had tried to talk him into getting in the bed in the trunk and getting

out of it when, when he pulled up, you know, pulls out and then he gets it.

He didn't want to, but I thought, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to jump out.

Yeah.

I remember I was at that press conference and a bunch of the Chrysler guys had come up to stand

by me and they were looking at it and saying, wow, that's, that's, so you guys, you know,

it's like front wheel drive.

It's like all wheel drive.

And I, they said, that's a lot of like space under there.

And I went, because what do you do with that?

I go, I don't know, gas tank, whatever.

And cause, you know, they, they were all, I mean, they kind of speculated it ahead of time.

You're thinking, no, we're putting a giant trunk under there and, and rightly so.

But I, I remember they went, wow.

Um, what else?

What's it going to do when I, and, and Osimo came out on stage and I went, hey, we have a robot

and a jet.

And then they walked off.

That was, that was my comment was, hey, we have a robot and a jet.

Dave's talking about the, one of the things that I think when the original line came out

that competitors savaged it for was the under bed storage.

Cause you had a giant space that actually, and I had a, I think you guys all put a drain plug

in it, right?

You were way ahead on this.

Cause now everybody does it.

Yeah.

They're doing the front.

Right.

But everybody's like, well, that's stupid.

Cause if you put something on top, you know, but it's like, well, also all of those truck

guys who are, who were slinging mud at you, they know that most of their shoppers are air

haulers.

They're not putting it back.

And if they are, what do they do next?

They go by a tonneau cover.

But it's also, well, it locked though.

Yes.

And this was a lock.

So it's a trunk.

I mean, it literally is a truck.

And look, everyone, I think in the world, except for truck buyers knows this.

Like it's Kabuki theater, the truck biz.

Sure.

Oh, it is.

Yeah.

So showing money or contractors.

I can do a thousand ways to use your tailgate.

I was, I remember my dad, my dad had a Chrysler wagon for a while.

Yeah.

Cause he always liked wagons because there was 40 of them.

And in Tahoe, you need, you know, it's toughness.

But he, I remember that one, if you got it just in the right place, like the GM ones,

but that credit, if you opened it this way and that way, you could drop the tailgate off.

And I kept telling all the insurers, just be careful of this.

And we don't want people like making it fall off because you could get it right in the

sweet spot and it would come off.

The installment point.

Yeah.

That's hilarious.

Yeah.

So, so, so originally it's interesting though.

So what was that?

I always, like, you know, when, when, when Daimler bought a Chrysler, right?

In my mind, what it was was like, man, look at this, you know, this mature US market,

they saw all these pickup trucks print cash.

Yeah.

Like, was that what it was?

It's like, we really gotta get on these pickups.

Well, I think it, you know, business wise, if you're selling, you have to have a pilot.

Yeah.

You know, we did the MDX was originally like Honda.

And yeah.

When we showed it, we showed the clay model in Japan and we were working on it as a Honda.

And Mr. Amamiya, who's still probably the smartest guy ever at Honda, he said,

no, we should, we should make it an accurate.

And we did.

Why?

Why do you say that?

For, for business and sales.

And, and then we use that platform to do the pilot and the pilot, you know, they,

you could sell a ton of those because it's a Honda and it's cheaper.

And, but the, he felt like, I think he felt accurate needed the, the bandwidth, you know,

the, the lineup to have more vehicles.

So when you say it was designed as an MDX, it was designed with a Honda first.

Well, it had that shape.

It was very, it was very, it was more, it was much sharper.

It was, it was probably square as a Honda and taller, but it still sort of, you know,

was on the same platform.

So the platform is everything.

You start with that.

Right, right.

And so it was kind of like, let's, let's do the accurate cues, you know, the, the center break

and, and make it a little chop top-ish.

All right.

Speaking of the platforms, everything in the conscious of time, I'm going to bring it forward

to, to sort of this era.

You might not be able to talk about this.

Why don't I want to have again, how your NDAs work, but Honda prologue and accurate ZDX,

which were, I think the best way to put it, co-developed with general motors, right?

During COVID.

First of all, let me just say, I think both of them are so good looking.

The prologue looks like, looks awesome.

It looks like, by the way, this is maybe only in LA.

The ZDX also looks really, ZDX is great, but the prologue is taken over like Los Angeles.

It looks sort of everywhere.

Crazy good deals.

It looks like a nine eighths car almost.

Like it's, because we finally, finally get to do like 24 inch wheels.

You know, and then the whole car got bigger.

I was like, dammit.

Yeah, I'm sure Rivian are, they're like pissed off when that thing came in.

Oh man, because it looks a lot like the R2.

I don't, I don't think Rivian are pissed off.

But anyways, yeah, I mean, that, you know, it's, it's weird when that car comes up,

especially the ZDX, because they were both going on.

But that, we were, I was going during COVID to the studio every day.

So it was like two of us and then three clay modelers.

Like every day, we did, we never like didn't work.

Right.

It was weird, it was quicker to get to work.

So it didn't feel like a listen, like.

It felt liberating, I think is the word, because we were doing the ARX at the same time.

And I think it, it was, you know, and I'm, my, my, I was never a boss.

I was always a enabler, I guess, or a, you know, I'm here for you guys.

So I think we were the, the camaraderie of us and the, the working together,

you know, without any interruption was, was the best part.

Right.

You know, it's a happy accident, you know, for how bad COVID was.

But, but I think that that, I remember having meetings with GM a lot and GM, you know, they're

in electro property.

They were really worried about it.

What were they worried about?

Just that we would make the same car or look the same or.

Let me see this before you actually like really got into the nuts and bolts of like the GM,

used to be called ultium now, it's called whatever, but the GM EVs.

Were you nervous that they were going to like be bad?

Because I will, I'm an unabashed.

I think GM EV strategy is every car is good.

They make good cars across the board.

I wasn't, I wasn't worried about the platform itself.

I, truth be told, and everybody know, I've been, I've said it forever is the packaging I was worried

about because Honda is so unique at packaging.

Excellent.

Yeah.

So you were worried you would not have, it would be big on the outside, small on the inside

situation.

Or it looks cool.

That's what you say.

Yeah.

There's a reason it looks cool, I guess, but yeah, I was worried about that.

But you weren't worried about like, oh, we're going to get like GM tech.

No, no, no, no.

I think it was, I was really, it was fascinating for me because of the uniqueness of each company

and the way they work.

I was, you know, you kind of step back and dive into the inner workings and think, wow.

And you know, a lot of engineering people at Honda, you know, they were like, wow,

we need more of that.

And the others were like, whoa, whoa.

And I'm sure GM was saying, wow, we need more of that.

You know, some of them.

It was just the, I'm just trying to think and nothing's going to mind because of the whiskey,

but was this the first like non-Honda vehicle collab you ever did?

No, we did the Seuzus.

Oh, the iLex.

No, no, no.

No, the Svx.

Svx, sorry, sorry.

Not Svx.

It's a Trooper 2 SLX became an Acura.

Yeah.

That was GM.

I mean, those, those.

Yeah, it was the Seuzus, but it was, yeah.

We did the two.

We did it.

We did an Acura and a Honda.

Right, right, right.

The Honda was the, it was the Passport.

Did you have anything to do with Sterling, speaking of Honda Colors?

Yeah, actually.

Oh, yeah.

John Nagamini, John.

Yeah, so Sterling, my boss.

Just to go for a very deep cut.

My boss at, at HRA in Torrent for the longest time, the guy that I learned everything from,

Tony Ikeda, he, he was, he was at, he was one of the, he was the first three to come to America

in 75 and, and study the market or whatever.

And he was designer.

And he said, I mean, if the things I remember were that he, they were so afraid to eat anywhere

they had McDonald's for every three meals a day for like three years.

Well, they were afraid to eat where?

Anywhere, but McDonald's.

Why?

Because they were Japanese.

They're like, we don't know.

It's like, we just ate McDonald's because it was like McDonald's though.

But, but he, he left and came back.

Yeah.

And then he went to Sterling for a while and worked on that too.

So he, and you know, his English is perfect.

So yeah, he, he taught me everything.

But yeah.

So the Sterling was the legend, you know.

So I, and I had, I had just started when all that was going on.

Right, 827, where did 827 come from?

Probably their address.

Deep cut.

And then there was a second Sterling.

There was like a hatchback.

But the, the, the big one was the one.

Yeah.

Tony, Tony was super famous.

We were like, we were like early and we're at work and somebody goes,

ah man, thank God it's Friday.

And he goes, Friday like any other day.

And I'll never forget it as long as I live folks.

Like, and every time when somebody goes, thank God it's Friday, go Friday like any other day.

That's very Japanese.

It was so cool.

That's so Japanese.

I mean, it was, but it was also like, I think he was bringing some home life to work.

Right.

Anyway, but I think that those two cars, I think we needed to do that to, to get some form language

for electrification and, and, you know, kind of,

As Ed said, I think the prologue.

Learn from them.

I mean, GM had done it.

You know, you're like, yeah, we don't.

Were the heart points shared between the GM vehicles?

So do you guys have all different windshields and doors?

So it's kind of a hodge podge, but yeah, yes.

But there's two platforms.

Okay.

So the longer wheelbase is the, the Lyric.

Lyric plus, is it Lyric and ZDX?

Yeah.

And then pro.

Not completely.

Prologue and.

And then prologue, prologue and the, the.

Blazer or?

Blazer.

Prologue and Blazer.

But it's about.

Not Equinox EV or?

Smaller.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's even.

Yeah.

And then like, there was a Cadillac OPTIQ.

It would be the, the smaller.

No, no, it's the Blazer.

It's, it's the bigger.

Well, it's the, yeah, I don't either.

I know, I know Lyric and I.

It's the 85 hour.

But there's parts of the hard points that are the other platform.

And then inside.

It feels much more GM from the switches.

Yeah.

I mean, it's, there's a lot of.

Part sharing.

Carry over and sharing, but I have to.

Because it's, because they were making, they were,

they were building them in their factories.

So I know, I know one thing we went through a lot and they were great.

GM is awesome because we did.

Colors.

So the colors, you know, we were, we were developing all these accurate colors.

And so we, we had to use their supplier.

So we were able to negotiate with them.

And they come in some good colors.

Yeah.

The turquoisey bluey.

Yeah.

That's the, I mean, that's the main one.

Yeah.

That was the double apex blue and we wanted to match that.

So kind of a bummer that I guess they were discontinued, but.

I mean, everybody's moving to the, you know, it's a bandaid till you get

what you, what you really want.

I get it.

I think the shared technology was good.

Yeah.

I was just, I was just thinking out loud, like, you know,

moving so fluidly, like you've done between Honda and Acura,

there probably wasn't like shocking to like, here's another thing to skin it,

not just skin it, you know what I mean?

Like, I think the, I guess in my personality, the, the,

Eric Berkman, who became the executive VP of Acura,

and he would, he and I grew up at Honda together.

We were, we worked on the first wagon together.

And he, he said, I want to make you global creative director.

And I'm like, no, I'm a Honda guy.

You know, I felt like I was going to be,

it's, it's not, I'm not going to have influence over what they're doing.

And he goes, just trust me.

And then he said, no, you're not going to, nobody reports to you.

And then I thought, well, how do I get people to do what I want them to do?

Right.

If I don't do their performance or control, you know, whatever.

And he goes, just trust me.

And I was maybe like a month in going, this is the coolest thing ever.

I don't care what you do.

I'm picking that one and we're making that.

And I think that that freed me up to, to make Acura more aggressive, I guess,

or, or more interesting and not worry about everything else that was going,

you know, with Honda or anything like that.

Was that, was that a new position, the global creative director?

Okay.

It was that weird for Honda to have a non-Japanese?

I assume so.

Okay.

Oh, that was me.

So.

You've been there for 40 years.

Yeah.

I mean, it wasn't, I remember when I, when they made me division director was,

I was for styling anyway.

Um, and, and Kagoshi was the division director and they said, you know,

every three years or four years, there's a change and they go through it.

And it's like, I just remember talking to him and everybody wants to know,

you know, who's, who's replacing you because you want to know.

It's like, oh God, that guy or, or, oh, that guy's cool.

And he goes, you are.

And I go, he's talking to me.

He goes, no, you are.

Wow.

And so I think at that point they were some trust.

Right.

Well, you'd also been, Honda came to America in 1959 and you joined them in 88 or something.

I mean, I was 87.

87.

And it was, I mean, 75 was the inkling of the design studio.

Right.

So it was probably 82.

So it'd only been five years that, even less than that.

Okay.

Yeah.

Did you have anything to do with the Honda jet?

Yeah, yeah, just, you know, yes.

I've flown on it.

Yeah.

It's funny.

We, we have a lot to do with it.

I say we, you know, I'm retired, but yeah, there's a lot of influence from the design

studio on, on stuff that goes on.

The shape, the, the style.

Not the, no, FAA is completely that.

Okay.

They're also interior, interior more than anything, but the, the graphics and things

like that.

Okay.

But I remember the first, the, the Nassau, the engine cover was being milled in our

fab, like 88 or 89.

And like, I thought it was like a Bonneville car or something.

What are you guys making?

It's like a, it's like a belly tanker or something.

But it was like the first to, to wind tunnel and try stuff.

I think the jet is, you know, the, the long game is there's, there's a lot of

cash aid to it, but there's also a lot of profit if you do it, you know.

Right.

Yeah.

That's great.

And you throw up the segues like crazy.

Well, to say that at $5 million is kind of a bargain.

And great fuel economy for a jet.

Of course.

I flew, I flew from Van Nuys to Monterey.

Oh, you did?

It was like 35 minutes.

Fantastic.

Things awesome.

Yeah, it was great.

I mean, you say, you say, uh, Honda's always playing the long game.

You know, they were first, people don't realize this, right?

They were, they were before Lexus and Infinity.

They were accurate.

Accurate.

Accurate was 86, right?

Yep.

To three years.

With the legend.

85.

Great, one of the greatest names for a car period.

Legendary.

And Integra.

Right there.

Integra, great names, great vehicles.

We bought, my family bought an 86 Integra.

We had the, we had that legend coupe manual.

Oh yeah, nice.

I was always impressed that Strother McMinn,

the art center, you know, art center, like the streets named after him, you know.

Yeah.

One of his favorite cars was that legend, the coupe.

Yeah.

And he, he, he told me one time, he says,

I saw a CL, did you have anything to do with that?

I go, yeah, he goes, it reminds me of that's what you guys need to get back to.

And I was like, from you, I'm good.

This is cool.

So can you give us any perspective?

This is one of my, my last questions.

Like Honda is like a head on a lot of these things.

Like they, they saw like Ridgeline.

They saw some of these fun box vehicles, like the elements.

The robot, Asamo.

The Asamo, right?

All these, all this stuff.

But they're, I know, I always interpreted as, you know, like, because I read the quote, like,

and I know the history, right?

Honda wasn't supposed to be a car company, right?

Like the, the ministry.

The government said, ah, Toyota.

Yeah.

You know, this, this carrots, these carrots, these guys are going to build the cars.

You, the bicycle, motorcycle, cool.

Keep doing your little thing.

Right.

So there's always kind of like this little guy, maybe trip on the shoulder kind of thing.

There was a Mr. Honda, but don't, you know, that, right.

Who also, by the way, legendary, because I just, I was in Japan and I saw like the early,

the 60s era, the F1 cars, like these stories that you, that Honda can tell.

It's amazing, right?

It's amazing.

Like where are they going to go?

Where do they go from here?

Well, I, I hope that, so I, I did quite a few Honda way discussions with different groups.

And I'd go and, you know, like legal group or things like that and say, look, this is,

this is the Honda philosophy and this is what you live up to.

And, and I, you know, I always felt like I needed to embody that spirit no matter what.

And I'd like to think that I did, but I always think that the fact that

the current staff doesn't, they don't know that as much.

And things have gotten so, it's not complicated, but it is, you know, it's,

you kept adding to, you know, just drawing a car, you know, there's,

there's a lot that goes into it and there's not enough time to, to teach the, the philosophy

like they're used to and the camaraderie of that.

I, I tell a few stories, but I, I always, when we used to do a thing called HLS and my

HLS class was Honda leadership.

It's, you identify high performers and say, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna send you to Eagle Rock

in Colorado and, and you learn to be a leader, basically.

And you always come up with, with different scenarios.

Ours was that Toyota, which there is a Mr. Toyota too, but with a D, he had gone to prep school

and then on to university and Mr. Honda dropped out of high school to build a motorcycle.

That's kind of our mentality and I always thought that's not a bad thing.

You could go back to school, but the, the, I just want to make something

thing is just huge in all of it.

The other one is I, I tell this story from, I think it was Mr. Shima Jima or somebody,

one of the executives said he was an engine engineer and they were at the test track in

Tochigi and they're driving a legend.

It was the first legend cause he didn't like the legend.

Mr. Honda didn't.

He didn't cause the, you know, the fender used to go into the door and he kicked it.

He said, it looked like it got dented.

So he kicked it where it was dented.

And if you look, they pushed the fender up in front of the door.

It used to go into the door and he, so they're driving it and he's,

somebody was driving and Mr. Honda goes, what's that noise?

And he said, yes, we're, we're trying to figure out what that is.

It was like a, you know, a rod knocking or it was something.

And he goes, fix it.

He goes, yeah, yeah, we're going to do it.

He goes, fix it.

Yeah.

And he goes, oh, oh, so the moral to the story is Honda,

he pulls over, he gets out and he opens the hood and goes, what the hell am I going to do?

He took his shirt off under the white coat and he shoved it down in there and, and sound dead in

it and shut the hood and you couldn't hear it.

And they drove and he goes, oh, much better.

And that was, that was the quick thinking of him to go, oh shit, what do I do?

And I thought that's, that's so clever, but you know, it's kick out the ladder, all that stuff.

Is Honda still an engineering company fundamentally?

I think so because, you know, me based on is engine guy.

And I think it is, I think what you have to do is make people work the, the line and do all that,

the, the former stuff that sounds corny, but you have to do it.

I mean, my, my favorite, like one of my favorite car stories was with the original Civic.

So the story goes, they said, yeah, you know what, we'll save money.

Instead of independent rear suspension, let's get rid of that.

We'll put a beam axle in, they had a board meeting.

And then there was one engineer who refused to stand up.

He wouldn't, he wouldn't end the meeting.

And like Mr. Honda looks at him like, why aren't you standing up?

And he says, I don't want to disagree with you, but for the customer, having independent rear

suspension would lower the floor so the car will be more useful and it'll be a better car for them.

And then Mr. Honda said, fine, put the independent suspension back in.

And that's why the original Civic, which, which in the States was a preposterously small car had

four wheel independent suspension.

I remember my father bought one.

He bought a, I think the fight to keep independent suspension forever was, it's still going on.

Yeah, of course it is.

It'll never go away.

And I think that's good.

But again, like an engineer understood that.

Well, and I think car enthusiasts, I mean, that's a lot of it too.

Yeah.

That's why the,

But if it had been a sales guy as, as CEO, they would say.

Of course.

But the money will make more money.

That's why the Type S Integra has a six speed.

You know, it's just like, you know, just do it.

Yeah, right.

It'll go away.

Do the right thing.

But yeah, I, you know, it's just, I think, I hope that if anything that people carry the legacy on

and just keep saying, look, you know, let's just make that, make it cool.

It's like, it's easy.

It's, it's not, it's not that hard.

Okay, right.

I have a really quick story.

Yeah.

It's not car related.

It's my girlfriend's sister and I, I'm not going to swear on the air, but I'll paraphrase.

And they, they're caterers and they were doing the Oscars and that one of the guy's jobs was

to light sterno under all the chafers to heat the food 15 minutes before it starts.

They're like five minutes.

I mean, this is like the, the Oscar like, like party.

Sure.

So like five minutes, the sternos aren't lit and the, the head of the catering comes and marries.

She says, why aren't these, these lit?

And the guy goes, I, I'll light them now.

Don't worry about it.

And he goes, it's not rocket science.

And this is the first time I ever heard it's not rocket science used properly.

Cause my girlfriend's sister said, it's not rocket science and you can't even f and do this.

And I thought that sums everything up.

Right.

That you can't even do this.

So I think that, you know, if people can approach car design, like it's supposed to be fun.

I mean, it is, there's a lot of that work that goes into it, but it's like, dude,

you're drawing cars for a living.

Come on.

It's enjoy it and, and embrace it and, you know, get, get joy out of it.

I guess.

So what are you, what are you doing?

What's the, what's the, what's the future for Dave Merrick?

Um, well, I want to go to every race that ever happened.

So I'm, I'm doing a lot of liveries for a lot of cars, Indy car and NHRA stuff.

And cool.

And it's kind of segwayed into, um, doing marketing and, and things like that.

And I learned so much from the HRC guys, you know, and I'm kind of adapting some of that stuff to it.

Um, let's see, I'm, I could go on forever.

I'm, uh, so that's all that stuff is going to, I, I'm doing that.

I'm, I'm on a couple of board of directors and art center, full circle board, things like that.

You're still teaching.

I'm teaching whenever they need, but I, I'm full time full circle board.

So that's kind of mentorship and things like that.

But I'm also like a buddy of mine was remodeling my bathroom and he goes,

what are all those things in your garage?

I go, those are 3d printers.

I've got like seven of them.

And he goes, what are you making with them?

I go, I make all kinds of stuff.

He goes, like, for instance, and I was shown and I, so I have a lot of Tiki's in my house.

I've got a totem pole and Tiki's and, and I've heard stories about this.

I've got Northwestern art everywhere and mass and, and every wall is painted a different color.

You know, it's crazy.

It's a Spanish house.

So I made switch plates.

I designed an alias switch plates, Tiki switch plates.

And then I 3d printed them and they're still there on my wall.

I go, he's a contractor.

I go, you could make these for like, he does Frank Lloyd Wright houses.

I said, you could do bespoke like switch plates.

And he goes, who are you?

That was literally the thing.

But, but so in between there is all kinds of stuff that I'm doing.

So yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's Easter for these.

For these.

I don't.

And I should.

I mean, the thing is I would just, I would, I would give the data.

I don't care.

I don't need to make money on it.

Are you a Tiki enthusiast?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Tiki T's.

Yeah.

Tiki T's a lot.

Yeah.

I go to, I mean, in, I go to Tiki.

No, I go to, do you know Broken Compass?

No.

It's Burbank.

It's on Burbank Boulevard.

Yes.

It's, it's pretty cool.

It's kind of the boat and things.

But I, you know, Dr. Funk.

So I go to Niner games and I stay in San Jose and San Pedro street is Dr. Funk.

Okay.

And it's awesome Tiki bars.

Like this place.

It's funny.

We have a big Tiki enthusiast on staff.

Brian, Brian used to do a bit, a bit Tiki crawl.

Yeah, I did.

It's the Tiki crawls.

Oh, you know, because I do Man 6 Adventure.

We're doing that.

We're ramping that up a lot.

Oh, which one?

Man 6 Adventure, our podcast with Brad Fanshawe.

Oh, you're still doing that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was supposed to come on.

And one of them is, I did the top five My Ties in Honolulu.

And it was Tiki bars all through Honolulu.

Nice.

Yeah.

And because I know every bartender there.

So it was, it was, it was cool.

All areas.

Wow.

What are you driving?

MDX.

Okay.

And I'm just buying a car.

Okay.

It's a non-Honda.

So you haven't, it's a non-Honda.

A non-Honda, nice.

So you haven't, have you been to Lyons Museum?

The Air Museum down.

Not, not the, no, Lyons, the Drag Race Museum?

No.

Ricks.

Oh, over in, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a Speedway.

Rancho Dominguez.

Yeah, it's right by where Lyons was.

Yeah.

Anyway, I'm on the board for that.

Oh, okay.

But, so one of, one of Rick's least favorite cars,

which is funny because he's a big Willys guy,

was a 32 Ford, chop three window.

Classic hot rod.

So I'm buying that.

Nice.

And are you going to 3D print it up?

No, no, it's, it's.

It's DUNS or black?

No, it's, it's orange.

Orange.

It's not even orange.

It's mango.

No, the guys at the shop call it Julius.

Orange Julius.

What's the motor?

It's a 327.

Okay.

I mean, it's classic.

It's, it's reverse chrome hub.

So it's not even, and it's full fendered, which I,

I'm debating if taking them off or not, but.

Yeah.

But it's perfect chop, you know, it's got the suicide doors.

And yeah, it's.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah.

And it's just kind of like it's, it's a plug and play.

Is your retirement special?

Kind of.

Yeah.

It's just like, you know, I've always said,

and they're, they're, because when Rick passed away, they said,

you know, let's get rid of cars that are extraneous to the collection.

Because mostly the lion's drag strip stuff.

And I said, don't even think about selling that.

I'm going to buy that.

Nice.

Well, sounds like the retirement's pretty good.

Yeah.

It's so far.

It's 21 days, is that what you said?

Yeah.

You know, I, I, I guess my personality is too always moving forward,

not thinking nostalgically so much maybe.

And I think that helps a lot that I just go, yeah, man, I got,

I, I, I still feel like I don't have enough time, but I, I, my, my personality's like,

I had a problem with key shot day before yesterday.

And I spent 24 hours trying to solve the problem in my head.

Just maybe it's this, maybe it's this, maybe then until you sit down and,

and apply it, you don't know.

And I just was going crazy and I, and I fixed it.

So, I mean, that's kind of the stuff that I have time to do now.

Well, we wish you well.

Yeah.

Well, thanks guys.

And this is right.

Sorry to get you on while you're still working on it.

Thanks for the whiskey.

This is probably better.

Because I'll, I'll, I'll do it smart.

Speak freely.

And we'll have, it will have you back on after a few, maybe a few more dozen days or something.

At whiskey?

Like, at whiskey.

Well, I would say after my, you know, 2029 and all your cars finally come out.

Well, there you go.

Yeah.

I mean, I think the, the, it's, you know, the, that's,

the cadence of the cars is changing constantly.

So you never know.

But yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's, it's, I'll miss the people.

For sure.

But I, I was down there the day before.

And I'm not going into the studio, but I'm pretty sure I could probably walk in

and nobody would even think about it and go, oh my God, what are you doing here?

Right, right.

But yeah, I don't need to.

I don't, I'm, I'm fine.

Okay.

Good.

I left a lot of gifts on my desk that I really didn't want to carry out.

So I just left it.

Like.

Excellent.

Well, thanks.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

American legends.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you.

It was awesome.

Thanks.

How Honda Changed the Car World | Inside 38 Years of Car Design with Dave Marek

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