Damon Hill and Johnny Herbert field a rapid-fire batch of listener questions, mixing career wisdom with F1 technical talk and plenty of banter. They advise Lando Norris to enjoy success while staying mentally pressured, tell 19-year-old Kimi Antonelli to be professionally ruthless with George Russell, and urge Lewis Hamilton to be honest about when motivation fades. The discussion also covers era differences in driver-engineer communication, why car performance swings track-to-track, race-weekend preparation in the 1990s, and the human side of team management. Crashes, rivalries, and even the “Scotch egg in the cockpit” story round it out.
What pieces of advice are Lando Norris, Kimi Antonelli and Lewis Hamilton - three F1 drivers at very different stages of their careers - most in need of?
In this special edition of Stay On Track, Damon Hill and Johnny Herbert have their say as they answer YOUR questions about contemporary F1, their grand prix racing careers and much more.
Find out whether either of them would like to drive the 2026 generation of cars (and the answer's a short one), whether they regret not making more of their respective talks with McLaren and Ron Dennis, what happens when friends collide on-track... and, of course, whether Damon really did drive to victory in the 1994 British GP with a Scotch egg in his pocket gifted to him by comedian Bob Mortimer.
Get bonus F1 podcasts, extra content and ad-free listening, sign-up to The Race Members' Club on Patreon today. For a limited time you can get 90% off your first month!
"[298.7s] If you were a driver manager today, what one piece of advice
[303.2s] would you offer?"
A driver manager is basically someone who helps a racing driver plan their career. They help with decisions like contracts and which teams the driver should aim for.
A driver manager is the person (or team) that helps a Formula 1 driver with career strategy—things like contract decisions, team relationships, and long-term planning. In F1, that role can strongly influence which seats a driver gets and how they’re positioned for championships.
"Well, OK.
[347.1s] It's good to start with Lando, aren't we?
[348.8s] World championship.
[349.7s] Of course, you know better than me about that one."
A “world championship” is the big yearly title in racing. It’s decided over many races, not just one event, and winning it usually means you’re at the top of the sport.
In Formula 1, the “world championship” refers to the season-long battle for the Drivers’ Championship (and separately the Constructors’ Championship). Winning it is a major career milestone and usually changes how teams and rivals view a driver.
"because obviously it's been a little bit of a difficult start
[356.1s] for McLaren themselves.
[357.9s] For me, just enjoy it."
McLaren is one of the famous racing teams in Formula 1. If they’re having a “difficult start,” it means they haven’t been as fast or consistent as they hoped early in the season.
McLaren is a top-tier Formula 1 team with a long history of racing success. When the hosts mention a “difficult start for McLaren,” they’re likely talking about early-season performance and competitiveness.
"I think it is important to enjoy it. I don't think if you're not enjoying it, it's very hard to deliver the performance you want. But at the same time, in order to win in Formula One, you have to put yourself under quite a lot of pressure."
Formula One is the highest level of car racing with teams and drivers competing all season. To win, drivers can’t really “switch off”—they have to stay focused and handle pressure every race.
Formula One (F1) is the top tier of open-wheel racing, where teams and drivers compete in a season-long championship. Winning requires managing performance under constant pressure—both mentally and strategically—rather than simply “relaxing” and driving casually.
"[464.7s] I'm having a chat with Jack.
[466.4s] We're doing some stuff with Williams and we're talking about our time together.
[470.4s] He's an ambassador for Williams."
Williams is a Formula 1 racing team. Even if someone has an ambassador role, they still have to work like a professional and compete hard on the track.
Williams is the historic Formula 1 team Damon Hill and Johnny Herbert are discussing. In F1, a driver’s role with the team can include ambassador duties, but on-track performance still comes first.
"You can't do F1 half-hearted. No. You have to be fully committed."
They’re talking about Formula 1, the top level of open-wheel racing. The point is that you can’t treat it casually—if you’re not fully focused, it’s very easy to make a dangerous mistake.
The speaker is referring to Formula 1, where drivers are expected to be fully committed because the margin for error is tiny. In F1, small lapses in focus or preparation can quickly turn into mistakes at high speed.
"But I wonder if Christian Horner, I think I would have got on well with Christian.
I think you have to be able to stand up to people."
Christian Horner is the boss of a Formula 1 team. He helps run the team and works closely with the drivers, so how he handles people can affect performance.
Christian Horner is a prominent Formula 1 team principal, best known for his leadership of Red Bull Racing. In F1, the team principal plays a major role in managing driver relationships, strategy, and day-to-day team direction.
"[976.4s] The support of both drivers, I think, they try and make it balanced. [981.4s] It's a very different world than what it was when I started."
In F1 you have two drivers, and the team has to help both of them. If one driver gets treated badly or ignored, the whole team can suffer because that driver may not perform at their best.
Supporting both drivers means ensuring each has the resources and guidance needed to extract performance from the car. If one driver is emotionally or strategically undermined, the team can lose potential points from that side of the garage.
"[1026.9s] I think it's very difficult for a young driver. [1030.2s] I mean, you see it with Flavio because he's obviously a lot older than the people. [1032.8s] I mean, poor drivers are kind of like, you know, they get such a roasting."
They’re talking about how newer drivers can get overwhelmed more easily. If the environment is harsh, it can make it harder for a young driver to do their best.
The segment highlights how young drivers can be more vulnerable to pressure and criticism. In F1, that can affect confidence, communication with engineers, and the ability to consistently extract performance.
"[1046.0s] I mean, Toto saw recently said, do you know where Nico and Louis crashed into each other in the year that Nico won? [1051.8s] Barcelona."
They’re talking about two cars hitting each other on track. In F1, that kind of incident can cost a lot of points and cause serious fallout inside the team.
“Crashed into each other” refers to a collision between two drivers, which can dramatically affect race outcomes and team strategy. The discussion implies that the incident had enough significance to trigger major internal consequences.
"So preparation for a race would be a simulator, I guess, today, wouldn't it be mostly?
Yes.
And going through with the engineer approach."
A race simulator is like a high-tech video game for racing, but it’s used seriously by teams. Drivers can practice the track and try different approaches without driving the real car.
A race simulator is a computer-based setup that lets drivers rehearse tracks, braking points, and race scenarios without using the car. In modern motorsport, teams often use simulators to refine strategy and driver technique between on-track sessions.
"And then two days later, I was at Silverstone doing a three-day test.
And then it basically went through the whole of the winter off season before you got to
the first race."
Silverstone is a well-known racing track in the UK. The speaker is saying they went there for a longer test session.
Silverstone is a famous UK racing circuit used for Formula 1 and other major motorsport events. Mentioning it alongside a “three-day test” highlights the role of established tracks for extended car evaluation.
"Everything else was in Europe. And the testing was in Europe. So there was no jet lag. There was no jet lag. So it was much easier."
Jet lag is what happens when you fly across time zones and your body clock doesn’t match the local time. In F1, lots of travel can make it harder for teams to stay sharp.
Jet lag is a major factor in the modern F1 travel schedule, especially when races and testing are spread across different time zones. The speakers contrast today’s travel demands with their era, when more events and testing were concentrated in Europe.
"Now, they have so much downtime. They have a curfew. Yeah, the curfew. So the downtime is much, much easier."
A curfew is a rule that says teams can’t work past a certain time. That gives people more predictable rest during race weekends.
A “curfew” in modern F1 refers to time limits that restrict when teams can work during a race weekend. This rule creates structured downtime, which the speakers say makes the schedule easier on staff compared with earlier eras.
"[1545.4s] I don't want, I don't want to watch FP1 and 2. I mean, it's meaningless. It's just like.
[1549.8s] It's an engineers. It's an engineers. It's not entertaining. So I'd rather see them do one
[1554.0s] session and then go straight into qualifying."
FP1 and FP2 are practice sessions early in the weekend. Teams use them to try different settings and learn about the car and track.
FP1 and FP2 refer to Formula 1 practice sessions 1 and 2. These sessions are primarily for teams to test setups and gather data, which is why some viewers find them less entertaining than qualifying or the race.
"...where you'd have a problem in qualifying, for example, and then you'd run back or I'd hobble back, get back to the, to the spare car..."
Qualifying is the session where drivers set their fastest lap to determine starting position for the race. In F1, issues during qualifying can force a driver to switch to a spare car, which often changes performance immediately.
"We're always going to say it's either understeering or oversteering, or the cars a bit loose here there..."
Oversteer is when the back end feels like it’s sliding or stepping out more than you want. It usually means the rear tires have less grip than the front.
Oversteer is when the rear of the car loses grip first, causing the car to rotate more than expected. It’s a key handling complaint in motorsport and is influenced by setup balance, tire pressures, and temperature.
"We're always going to say it's either understeering or oversteering... or the cars a bit loose here there..."
Understeer is when you turn the wheel and the car doesn’t rotate enough—it feels like it wants to go straight. It usually means the front tires aren’t gripping as well as they should.
Understeer (often called “push” in racing) is when the car turns less than the driver expects, typically because the front tires lose grip first. Teams and drivers discuss it because it’s strongly affected by setup, tire behavior, and track conditions.
"...the compounds are very different. And we hear very, very often that one driver or one team works on a... medium tire and one team works on a harder tire... the tire compound makes a huge difference to how that particular car works..."
A tire compound is basically the type of tire rubber. Softer tires usually grip more but wear faster, while harder tires last longer but may not feel as grippy.
A tire compound is the rubber formulation (e.g., softer vs harder) that determines grip level and durability. Softer compounds typically offer more immediate traction, while harder compounds tend to last longer—so teams choose based on track and race strategy.
"...where the tires were produced, what day they were produced on. You know, because Pirelli obviously tried to produce a standard, which is consistent as possible"
Pirelli is the company that makes the Formula 1 tires. The idea is that they try to keep the tires consistent, but small differences can still show up on track.
Pirelli is the tire manufacturer used in Formula 1, and the speaker notes the company’s effort to make tires as consistent as possible. In practice, tire production timing and batch-to-batch variation can still matter for performance.
"but everything and the look of what you had when you're in the Paddock. So he was very special from that point of view."
In racing, the paddock is like the teams’ backstage area. Cars get worked on there, and you can see how professional and organized the team looks.
The paddock is the team area at a racing circuit where cars are prepared and team personnel work between sessions. It’s also where you’ll see team branding, hospitality, and the “look” of the operation up close.
"Well, you go to a track and you're quicker than everyone without doing anything to the car. But when did you feel it was like famously with Jensen and the double diffuser? He knew immediately."
In Formula 1, the floor and the area under the car can be shaped to make the car stick to the track better. A “double diffuser” is a specific shape that helps that airflow, and teams noticed it could make the car feel fast right away.
A double diffuser is an aerodynamic feature used on some Formula 1 cars to improve efficiency by managing airflow under the car. It was famously associated with the era when teams gained a big performance step through floor and diffuser design. In the segment, it’s referenced as a case where the car’s pace was evident very quickly.
"In the 1998 Argentinian Grand Prix, you and Johnny crashed into each other."
They’re referencing the 1998 Formula 1 race in Argentina. That’s the event where the two drivers collided, and they’re now debating who was at fault.
The 1998 Argentinian Grand Prix is the specific Formula 1 race where the crash discussion takes place. In F1, incidents like this are often analyzed in terms of race context (positions, points, and strategy) and whether the driver’s actions were justified.
"Richard Ryle. I'm going to do this one for you. So Damon, do you feel your early world champion teammates, Mansell Prost Center, where I've benefited to you coming into F1?"
F1 is Formula 1, the highest level of open-wheel auto racing. Drivers race for teams on tracks around the world.
F1 refers to Formula 1, the top tier of open-wheel racing run by the FIA. It’s a team-based championship where drivers compete on circuits using highly regulated, high-performance cars.
"there was a compromise on a setup, for example, when tracks were quite bumpy... you'd have to probably change the spring... But then it would actually be worse on faster corners..."
They mean race car tuning is always a trade-off. If you set the car up to handle bumps well, it might feel worse in fast corners, and vice versa.
A “setup compromise” is the balancing act in race car tuning—choosing settings that work well in one condition but may be less ideal in another. The speakers use bumpy track sections as an example of how suspension choices trade off ride compliance versus cornering performance.
"But if there was a bump going into cops corner, just for example, you'd have to probably change the spring to absorb that bump..."
A spring controls how soft or stiff the suspension feels. Softer springs can smooth out bumps, but they can also make the car less responsive in fast turns.
In F1 suspension, the spring rate affects how the car absorbs bumps and how it maintains tire contact under load. Changing springs alters ride stiffness, which can improve compliance over rough sections but may hurt stability or grip in faster corners.
"[3164.2s] I think the word here that we're looking for is art. In other words, there was a thing called the art of driving."
They’re talking about racing like an art, where you use feel and instinct, not just rules. The idea is that great drivers “create” on track, instead of only following instructions.
The “art of driving” frames racing as more than following instructions—it’s about creativity, feel, and instinct. In this context, it contrasts with modern coaching and data-driven guidance that can make drivers feel micromanaged.
"In an alternative world where the Adelaide 1994 collision sends Michael Schumacher out, but your car is able to be fixed with you rejoining in sixth..."
They’re talking about a famous crash in Formula 1 in 1994 at Adelaide. The hosts use it to imagine how the championship might have turned out differently if the incident had gone another way.
The Adelaide 1994 collision refers to a pivotal Formula 1 incident at the Adelaide circuit that affected the championship outcome. In the segment, it’s used as a “what if” scenario to explore how different race results could have changed who won the title.
"probably the crashes I didn't have, which was driving in the wet places like Spa, where you are scared, but you didn't crash."
When the track is wet, tires don’t grip as well. That means the car can slide more easily, and you have to brake and turn more carefully.
Wet-weather driving reduces tire grip and increases the chance of aquaplaning, so braking points and cornering speeds must be adjusted. Drivers often describe wet sessions as “scary” because the car can suddenly lose traction even with normal inputs.
"Yes. Thank goodness. I did have a crash once where in testing, while we're on the subject, where I'd had, you know, you get neck problems and stuff from whiplash and everything."
Whiplash is an injury to your neck that happens when your head gets jerked forward and then snaps back quickly. In racing, crashes can cause that motion even if you don’t feel the impact right away.
Whiplash is neck injury caused by a sudden forward-and-back motion, commonly during crashes. In motorsport, it’s a key safety concern because head and neck movement can be severe even when the car’s impact isn’t catastrophic.
"So I went left and straight into the barrier. And now as I was heading into the barrier, I remember seeing this is going to be a big..."
A barrier is the wall or guard on the side of the track meant to protect you and slow the car down safely. Where and how you hit it can make the crash much more or less serious.
A barrier is the track’s impact protection structure designed to absorb and redirect crash energy. In high-speed incidents, how the car hits the barrier (angle, speed, and restraint effectiveness) strongly affects injury risk and car damage.
"...I go to what Alan Prost said after his last race, I was still learning something up till the last lap of my last race."
Alan Prost is a legendary Formula 1 driver. Here, he’s being used as an example of someone who kept learning and improving right to the end.
Alan Prost is referenced as an example of a driver who maintained a learning mindset even after his final race. His approach is often discussed in motorsport as a blend of competitiveness and continuous improvement.
"The only time I remember was actually it was karting. I was British championship Felton and was leading the race and a driver behind knocked me out."
Karting is usually the first step into racing for kids and teens. It’s where drivers learn how to race closely, and sometimes that leads to arguments or contact.
Karting is the entry-level form of motorsport for many future professional drivers, focusing on car control, braking points, and race etiquette. Because karts are small and close-packed, contact and aggressive moves can happen frequently, especially in youth championships.
"But he had the jack handle, the big jack handle that he went in there and basically sort of attacked him."
They mention a jack handle, which is basically a tool used to lift a car with a jack. In this case, it’s part of what made the situation turn into a fight.
A “jack handle” is a tool used to operate a garage jack. In the story, it’s referenced as the object involved in the confrontation, highlighting how quickly a racing dispute can turn dangerous.
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The Athletic
Coming up on this episode of Stay On Track,
would either of you have liked to drive the F1 cars of this current regulation?
Quick answer?
No.
Damon, did you really win the British Grand Prix
whilst driving around with a Scotch egg in your cockpit?
You can't do F1 half-hearted.
You have to be fully committed.
Ron was there behind his desk and I was expecting...
Morning, Johnny. How are you? How's the family?
Lovely weather out there. Welcome to McLaren.
When the first words that came out of his mouth were,
I need to change you.
I did have regrets because the moment I put the phone down to him,
I said, you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
I phoned him back about 10 minutes ago, so...
I mean, I might have been a bit hasty.
Everything really does slow down in a very slow way.
No, I'm a lover, not a fighter.
Johnny, what are you?
Oh, yes, yes, yes, we all know that one.
Absolute toffee.
We're going to start the show, aren't we, Johnny?
Yeah, stay on track.
Another episode.
It's an episode.
I mean, the problem is, they've cancelled, as we know,
because of global conflicts and stuff.
Yeah.
So our thoughts go out to everyone in the...
Every day.
Who's in the middle of this because we are...
We're moaning because we've lost two Grand Prix.
I mean, but there's a whole lot worse going on in the world.
So thoughts go out to them.
But we will try and keep people entertained in the meantime.
Johnny, you've got questions.
Yeah, we're going to do something slightly different now.
Load of questions that we're going to answer
coming from Race Members Club and YouTube as well.
YouTube community.
Yes, YouTube community.
Where are you?
We're trying to work out.
I think you're everywhere.
Yeah, they are everywhere.
Scattered around the world.
Moving around the world.
Right, shall we start?
Absolutely, good idea.
You did the first one.
Well, I need to put my glasses on for that.
But what I was going to say is I was talking to my wife
about my podcast, our podcast.
And we've got Wickels stay on track, aren't we?
But there's another one I do.
And so I was trying to explain this to my wife, Georgie.
So I do another one.
She said, what's that called?
Off the Rails.
It's called the undercut.
But that was her response.
Off the Rails, I thought was a much better name for our one.
That's very Georgie, that one.
Yeah, very Georgie.
She's got a bit of a naughty sense into you.
Didn't know you were doing another podcast.
I didn't.
It's the undercut with Mark.
And that's a serious one.
OK.
And this one is more entertaining.
What is this one?
OK, all right then.
I'm happy about that one.
So we do that as well.
But today we've got all these questions from the race members
and YouTube community.
As you said, Andy Atkins.
Shall we go with that one first on Patreon?
If you were a driver manager today, what one piece of advice
would you offer?
One, our current world champion, Lando.
So if I was a driver manager, what piece of advice would I give him?
Or two, the rising star, Kimmy Antony.
And three, Lewis.
Oh my God, that's a lot of advice.
Who has the most wins and is the other end of his career
to them both?
Thanks.
Love the chat between you and the legends of the sport.
You got it.
Thank you.
So, right, now there's three really...
I get what he's asking here.
It's basically you've got people at different phases of their career,
I think.
So Kimmy's right at the beginning, 19 years old.
Come on, you far away.
Go on, tell me.
Well, OK.
It's good to start with Lando, aren't we?
World championship.
Of course, you know better than me about that one.
But it's what you would try and advise,
because obviously it's been a little bit of a difficult start
for McLaren themselves.
For me, just enjoy it.
I think that's the biggest thing.
I think wherever you are in your career,
wherever you are in a championship,
it's all about enjoyment.
He's won his world championship.
He's going to have a brilliant career from now on.
He's going to have a big fight, obviously,
with his teammates, with Oscar.
But if you enjoy it, I think that frees everything up for you
and you actually drive better by doing that.
Can I add something to that?
Which is that I hear this all the time
and I understand and I think you're right.
I think it is important to enjoy it.
I don't think if you're not enjoying it,
it's very hard to deliver the performance you want.
But at the same time, in order to win in Formula One,
you have to put yourself under quite a lot of pressure.
In other words, you're not, you can't relax.
You can't have time off.
You can't go, oh, well, I'll just, I'll have these.
It's hard work.
I mean, concentrating on all the things
and making sure you know everything you need to know
is quite exhausting mentally.
That's where the enjoyment comes into it, though,
because I think they sort of work very well together.
And then if you move on to the next one with Kimmy,
young guy leading the championship,
having a good fight with his teammate, George Russell,
at the moment, but what would you tell him?
I think I would say don't be friends with George.
You've just got to be very selfish about the position that he's in.
I knew it.
I knew it.
I knew you were that kind of guy.
I mean, honestly, although, you know, I'm a lovely chap,
you know, happy all the time, funny bloke.
No, it's sitting down.
He's a very nasty man.
And I'm glad you know about that.
I'm glad you know.
You've seen it.
You're right.
You know, you can't have, it's a professional relationship.
So there has to be a, and I totally agree with what you said.
I'm having a chat with Jack.
We're doing some stuff with Williams and we're talking about our time together.
He's an ambassador for Williams.
And there was respect, but there was also the understanding that I will do
everything I can to beat you within what is sporting.
So he's learning that.
That's what your advice to Kimmy is.
Yeah, very much.
Yeah, exactly.
But you've got to work with the team as well.
I mean, you don't have to tell him to enjoy it because he's loving it.
Yeah, he's loving it.
Quite obvious, I think, on that one.
Third one, Lewis.
Other end of his career, all those race wins and championships that he's done.
Motivation still seems to be there.
Can you give anyone like Lewis any advice of any kind whatsoever?
I mean, we watched him all the way and he's never accepted.
He's done it his own way.
He's done it how he wants to.
And he's proved a point, I think, which is that he's done what he wants to do.
And that ultimately means he can rest easy because there's nothing more annoying
than if you get advice and you're not really sure it's the right advice.
You take it and you do it and you go, I shouldn't have done that.
Why did I listen to that person?
No, and you've got to sometimes listen to yourself as well.
Because I think with everything that he's done in his whole career,
even before Formula One, there has always been that unbelievable talent
that's always been shining through.
Probably the one thing I would probably say if I was close to him was be honest.
Because there is a point where things aren't going to be as easy as they once were.
Your competitiveness is probably not going to be where it once was.
And there is a point where you're going to have to sort of go,
it's not quite where it was and I've got to go, I've had my time.
Do you think he discovered that last year?
Because he had such an awful time.
He's come back with a much better frame of mind this year.
And I think it seems to me he's come to terms with the fact that he's at that end of his career
and that you simply can't keep doing the instinctive things you do when you're 20.
And again, he's with a younger teammate as well, who is sort of that next generation that we've seen.
And there is always going to be that as well.
You know, with all the races that we've seen in the past, the world champions,
we've had from the fit of powders to before that, the Stuarts and the Clarks,
but then with the PKs and Mentzels, yourself, Michael Schumacher, Miga Hakenen, etc.
It always gets better.
They always get more complete for some reason.
And that is where things change and where you get to a point where you go.
It's not as easy as it once was.
So for me, I think it's just being honest with yourself and when you need to sort of go,
I need to hang my boots up.
So it's just a maturing process.
In other words, when you're young, you kind of, you know, like Kimmy, you know, you can't,
you don't know where the future is.
You don't know what you're going to, what the story will be at when you get to your 39 or whatever it is.
You know, but Lewis knows the story.
He knows he's won seven world titles, more than races than anyone else.
He's, you know, he is well easily the greatest in terms of his results alongside, you know,
I mean, no Michaels up there as well.
He's motivated.
He's still thoroughly pushing himself to the limits.
But of course he's being tested by a child.
But is he, is he at the point where it's as easy as it once was?
Because, as you know, when you're sort of riding the wave, it's quite easy in many respects.
But there is a point I remember at the end of my career where it wasn't as easy.
Yeah.
And then that's where I went.
I think time has come.
Yeah.
It is a very interesting point in your career.
And I think that also the only thing I would say is if you, something Bernie said,
Bernie Eccleston said, which, which really hit me.
Because quite often he's incredibly perceptive.
I know he's got a lot of other, you know, debatable, you know, talents.
But anyway, but the one thing he said was when the driver sees the red light,
they should stop immediately.
Because once you decided you don't want to do it, you should get out.
Yeah.
Then rather than, yeah, rather than sort of hanging on until the end of the season or something.
Yes.
The hanging on bit is horrible to watch as well where someone still thinks they can still achieve things.
Because it's like, it's gone.
Clearly gone.
Did you feel rugby at school?
Sort of.
Well, anyway, they say it's like a rugby tackle.
If you go in half-hearted, you're going to get hurt.
Yes.
You can't do F1 half-hearted.
No.
You have to be fully committed.
And it's, so anyway, that's a bit of sage advice from us too.
And we're not expecting anybody to take it.
We're just answering the question.
Indeed.
And we move on to the next one.
And we're telling the advising racing drivers.
Right.
Come on.
Yeah.
No one will listen for sure.
Right.
Brian Mortensen.
Hey, Damon and Johnny.
First-time questioner, long-time listener.
Thank you.
What team principle, principles from recent years do you think you'd have worked best with as a driver?
Thanks.
Hmm.
Interesting one.
I think I was very lucky with my ones.
I mean, I go on with, you know, Frank and Patrick, despite a lot of stories, you know, a friction,
but I really looked up to them.
I thought they were incredible.
Indeed.
Get that.
There's one, of all of them.
I mean, there was, you know, we're going back a long time now.
People like Ken Tyrrell.
Did you ever meet Ken?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You had Peter Collins.
Peter Collins, I would like to have worked with.
Yeah.
Tell us about Peter.
Yeah.
Peter loved his drivers.
Was always passionate about picking and choosing those drivers to get into his team.
I was very lucky that he got me into Bennett after I broke my feet.
And of course, then after that, back with Lotus.
But he had a nice way and still does have a nice way of discussing things in the environment
to be able to get the best out of you.
He was very, very aware that the driver was the most important ingredient there.
So have a happy driver.
You'll get a quick driver.
On the flip side, there was Flavio Breatori.
And Flavio could only focus on one of his drivers.
And unfortunately, if he focused on one, which unfortunately for me was Michael Schumacher,
which worked out very well for Bennett and Ferrari later on.
But he was never very supportive of that second driver.
It wasn't just me.
Jensen Button went through exactly the same thing.
He didn't need to kill with his career actually when he was there.
And then he was very supportive with Fernando Alonso.
But he got that success by focusing on those particular drivers.
But Peter, for me, was very, very important even with my time with Mick Hacken and in the early days of Lotus.
Because he was very supportive of me.
There's so many to think of.
I'm just, while you were talking, I was listening.
But I was also trying to think about some other people.
And there's a few notes.
I'm going to leave out the ones I wouldn't, don't think I would have got on with.
Oh, come on.
Come on.
Just one.
I don't want to upset anyone.
But there's a few.
I just, even now, I'm just looking.
I go on.
Anyway.
But I wonder if Christian Horner, I think I would have got on well with Christian.
I think you have to be able to stand up to people.
Yeah.
And I think I would have been able to say, you know, I think I would have had an understanding and being able to speak directly to him.
And I think that's really important.
One of the things, it's such an interesting question because when you go back in history, the team principals were roughly the same age as the drivers.
If you go back to Ron Dennis and Nicky Louder.
In fact, Nicky might even been older than Ron.
I don't know.
But some of, and Frank, when he started the drivers, they were all the same age.
Yeah.
They were almost the same age as the drivers.
So imagine the dynamic there.
You have a different relationship when you've got, I mean, think of Kimmy and Toto.
Well, I mean, Kimmy is completely, you know, he could be his grandchild.
Oh, absolutely.
Arm around his shoulder all the time.
Yes.
Support.
So far the sun kind of relationship.
Whereas where you've got the same age, you can see I-to-I talk directly to the person because you're all in an equal experience, let's say.
How different is it nowadays?
Can you imagine all those difficult team principals you had, the Flavio Brutoids of the world?
They only focused on one car.
Now, both cars are the same.
The support of both drivers, I think, they try and make it balanced.
It's a very different world than what it was when I started.
There was always a slight imbalance I found through my Formula One, 10, 11 years of Formula One.
And it's a very, it's a nicer place to be, I think, from a driver because you do have the support.
The question is, is it better from a performance point of view?
Yeah.
That's the key bit, isn't it?
Because their job is to get the best performance out of both drivers.
If they are emotionally crushing one of their drivers, they're kind of cutting the team in half.
Yeah.
And I see that with some team principals and I understand what you're saying.
Yeah.
But they sent a prost.
But with Ron, that was tough to manage, wasn't it?
But that's my point.
They were of a similar age or generation and they could stand up to each other.
I think it's very difficult for a young driver.
I mean, you see it with Flavio because he's obviously a lot older than the people.
I mean, poor drivers are kind of like, you know, they get such a roasting.
Yeah.
And I just don't think there's any kind of ability to try and get the best out of that driver with that management style.
I mean, Toto saw recently said, do you know where Nico and Louis crashed into each other in the year that Nico won?
Barcelona.
I mean, he apparently said he's sacked them both.
So in other words, they both knew they could do that.
Yeah.
If you carry on like this for the team, then you're both out.
Yeah.
Not one or the other.
No, sure.
Which I think was a very advanced, let's say, progressive kind of approach to team management.
We don't like it as drivers because we like to do what we want.
Yeah, we do.
But the fact is, again, it's always a character, isn't it?
Nigel was a character in a very, very different way.
It's the same with the processing center.
So there's always going to be those characters the team principal has to try and try.
We've got some good questions that we've only done two.
Yes.
So thank you, Brian, for that one.
That was what that got us going.
Very good.
Yeah, it got you.
Right.
How are we getting on?
You want to be the next one?
And forget is the next one.
Yeah.
We've got here.
Right.
How much does a driver really spend off track working with the team engineers on the car?
And how does it compare now to when you were racing many, many years ago?
And on a similar note, River Trollin asked, what did preparing for a Grand Prix look like
in 1996?
Walk us through a week or days leading up to the race weekend?
OK, so very simply, they've banned testing or reduced testing to just pre-season tests
and maybe in the middle of the season they have a day or two or something.
Yeah.
So we would be endlessly testing.
Yes.
So that we didn't have simulators.
So the only way to find out whether the team was making progress or trying to think that
was to go to track.
So when we got home, we didn't spend ages on a simulator.
We were done.
Simulator?
Simulator.
Simulator.
Yes.
Yeah, we didn't have them.
We didn't have them.
No.
No.
I mean, you literally.
So but now I believe they have their own simulators at home.
Yes.
If they don't go to the factory, they can rehearse what they're doing.
Yeah.
All the time.
Maybe that's a help.
But at the same time, they are obliged to do quite a lot of extra time.
So preparation for a race would be a simulator, I guess, today, wouldn't it be mostly?
Yes.
And going through with the engineer approach.
I mean, we used to have like one phone call, I think the engineer, I'd phone my engineer
and go, what are we going to do?
I don't know.
We'll do what we did in the test.
Yes.
It was about that.
It was about the extent.
Yeah.
Now, the testing, I always remember doing, well, Adelaide at the end of the year, as
it was.
And then two days later, I was at Silverstone doing a three-day test.
And then it basically went through the whole of the winter off season before you got to
the first race.
And in the gym.
And in the gym.
So mostly fitting that in between.
I was spending a lot of time physically getting prepared because it was quite physical when
we were racing.
And I'm sure that, you know, they're superbly fitting, but they've got a whole team to train
us.
Yeah.
All sciences.
So it was.
I had Irwin Goldner from Austria.
Yes.
He's still around.
Irwin, if you're out there.
Yes.
So I remember the very early days of a certain energy drink, very early days of it.
And I remember taking it, and I think it was absolutely really sugar.
Yeah.
That's all it was.
And it was like, I'd have a cup of tea.
I was like a tap.
Yeah.
Literally, I drink a liter and I go to the bathroom just before the race.
A liter of energy drink.
A liter of energy drink.
Yes.
Wait, wait, wait.
And then I go to the toilet.
This is before the race.
Just before the race.
Yeah.
I'm just, I'm just giving you a bit of an idea.
Yes.
But then I'd go into the toilet and I would do gallons.
Yeah.
Gallons.
It just seems to go in and it grew as it, as it went inside and it just came out and
it was horrible.
You mean when you say energy drink, you don't mean that.
Energy drink.
The kinds you get in a can.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
Sometimes green.
Sometimes red.
Isotonic.
No, no, no.
Isotonic energy drinks.
Very early days.
Yeah.
Well, cause your body is saying you got too much of this.
It was awful stuff.
Terrible stuff.
But now it's beautiful, beautiful craft.
For me, and then it's done for you as well and everybody else.
So the scientists moved on a bit.
When we were doing it, I think we were trying out stuff, and there was carb-o loading and
stuff.
Do you remember that one?
So anyway, after whatever how many years I'd been in F1, I went back to school, my old
dentist and he said, what have you been doing? Because basically it rocks your teeth. It was
like drinking sugar. Yeah, sure. I remember the other thing and it always was pasta. Pasta
is very good. It takes a long time to sort of break down and it's good for energy and
everything else. But I used to, I needed to fall asleep at the wheel. Yeah, it's terrible
stuff actually. Pasta was probably the worst. Because you get incidents to take. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it was terrible. But it was the thing. Everybody said, yeah, pasta, pasta, pasta.
That was the best thing. But it wasn't like that. But a weekend was quite simple, I think,
going through to a Grand Prix. Because there was a little bit of sponsorship stuff that you had
to do for the sponsors. The small teams, not so much, but when I went to Bennett and I remember
there was off season sponsor visits that you had to do if it was a skiing resort or wherever it
may have been. It was the big teams that really did use the drivers, where I think nowadays
every team uses the drivers way, way more than what they did in my period.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, honestly, it's insane sometimes what they did. It's insane. It's down to the
minute. Right. Shirag Shah, my question to both, Damon and Johnny, is would either of you have
liked to drive the F1 cars of this current regulation? Quick answer? No. No. So moving on.
That's another one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shirag. Lewis Lapont, 74. Do you think there are too many
races now? What do you think about the spirit races back in the 16 races seemed enough? There's
two questions there. Are there too many races? I would probably say, from a driver's perspective,
no. Perspective, no. From a engineers, mechanics perspective, yes. Because I think they spend
so much time away. The mechanics I had when I was in the 1990s, didn't have family, didn't have kids.
So for them, going away, doing 16 races, but all those testing days, 30 days testing that we did,
wasn't such a big deal. Now the fact they have a lot of families within those mechanics and
engineers and everything else, that is a huge burden on their relationships that they've got.
And because the season is so long, when we race, we had Australia, Japan, Canada, sometimes we
do America, but not very often. Brazil. And then Brazil. Everything else was in Europe. And the
testing was in Europe. So there was no jet lag. There was no jet lag. So it was much easier.
I mean, honestly, more than killing nowadays. More than the number of races, it's the jet lag.
Yeah. The battle lag. For the teams. And I agree with you, I think. So do you remember when John
told, when he brought in the extra 22 races, when they went up to 22 races, and the people
were going, this is going to be destroying relationships and families. And he said,
his response was, well, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen effectively.
So I thought that was not a good answer. Because you have to have two different,
you have to, the teams have to rotate. And they've got obligations to their employees,
not to overwork them and to make their life hell. And there is one difference as well nowadays,
compared to when we were racing. I remember Lotus and even Benetton, where there were 24-hour
stints done during a race weekend, sometimes 48 hours, because I had to change an engine.
It was a problem. And they couldn't do that. Now, they have so much downtime.
They have a curfew. Yeah, the curfew. So the downtime is much, much easier.
Yes. They're doing their jogging, their cycling. Can't work now. They're not allowed to.
No, they do. They ship their bikes all the way, every single circuit they go to.
Every evening at the bikes, they've all got these cyclists. You find out who's really into their
cycling and running. Anyway. That never used to happen. Sprint races. That never used to happen.
No, that didn't. They were too busy. I mean, they didn't have downtime.
No, exactly. Right. Sprint races. Good, bad.
Sprint races. I don't mind them. I think they're just an extra little addition to the weekend.
Sometimes it actually spices up Sunday's race as well. So there's a sort of little twist sometimes
that comes into play. I don't mind them. I have a proposition about, I mean, I agree.
I don't want, I don't want to watch FP1 and 2. I mean, it's meaningless. It's just like.
It's an engineers. It's an engineers. It's not entertaining. So I'd rather see them do one
session and then go straight into qualifying. In fact, I get rid of the session, just go
straight into qualifying. Yeah. I would, yes. I would. I would.
Just go, right, you've done all the prep. Yeah. You've been on the same route for hours and hours.
God knows how many you're tested within minutes. You know the circuit. You know everything.
Yeah. Get on with it. Absolutely. Get on with it. Right. I totally agree. Totally agree.
So it sounds brutal, but I think one thing I will say is I think that the problem with the
the sprint is a good thing. They changed the rules about the tires
because it does change a little bit of the qualifying outcome, but it's almost like you've
got the race is three, three, you know, three thirds and the first third is on the Saturday.
Yeah. And then the second two thirds are on the Sunday. That's the only problem.
Yeah. It kind of predicts what's going to happen. Yes, it is.
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Right. Carrying on at Bendrew two. How do cars go from good to bad, from balanced to
undrivable between races? It seems that every race the drivers are complaining that it was
competitive at one weekend and then it's not competitive at the other weekend.
What is it that changes when we're driving the car? Yeah. So the ad bit, he doesn't the team
know what changes they've made and how the track is different. And I think he's hit on the key
factor, which is the track is different. The track is really, really important to performance
because it changes every time a car goes past. It leaves a bit of rubber on the road.
And it depends how long that rubber has been on the road. If it's there a week,
it's no longer there. Probably it's probably perished and blown away in the wind or it's
been covered in dust or something. So the track, wind direction changes, the humidity changes,
the track temperature changes. So really that is the, I think the biggest fundamental is that the,
it's a moving target. And then you throw in the fact that it's a human being driving the car.
And the cars are always pulled apart and put back together and they will insist that the car is
identical. Yes. Hasn't, no, we could, we could put the car, it's perfect. We'll put it in the
truck and then we'll get it out tomorrow and then it's undrivable. Yes. So what is the difference?
And I do think that we have to accept that humans, the drivers go, we have quite a wide
operating range that sometimes changes quite a bit. And of course the best drivers,
they're able to repeat the performance at a much higher level and more consistently than others.
But I do think we have to accept that sometimes we're just not, not awake. You know, sometimes
drivers are a little bit, you know, they're not as finely tuned. No, but I do remember having a
spare car. Remember the old spare cars we used to have in the back of the garage,
where you'd have a problem in qualifying, for example, and then you'd run back or I'd hobble
back, get back to the, to the spare car, jump in the spare car and go a second and a half slower.
And all it was, was the mechanics had focused just on the race car and the spare car was never
really, it was sort of basically set up, but it was never really fully prepared. So when it,
when it went on track, it was absolutely hopeless. They've learnt and got better now,
of course we don't have spare cars anyway, but I think the preparation was, was probably missing
back in the, back in the nineties. But the one thing advantages I think they have nowadays is
with all the simulations that they do do and the way that the cars are prepared and you said about
what they sort of, you strip it down, put it back together again, but they're pretty good nowadays.
I have to say the performances are pretty level. Yes, we're always going to complain, aren't we?
We're always going to say it's either understeering or oversteering or, or the cars a bit loose here
there or wherever it may be. But that's just the way things change with the temperatures as you
explained and the way the tire pressures are and everything else. Well, one thing that's very
different as well is when you go to Silverstone, for example, and then you may go to Monaco for
the next race, the compounds are very different. And we hear very, very often that one driver or
one team works on a, on a medium tire and one team works on a harder tire, but it's not always the
same different tracks. So again, the tire compound makes a huge difference to how that particular
car works as well. And also where the tires were produced, what day they were produced on.
You know, because Pirelli obviously tried to produce a standard, which is consistent as possible
from moment to moment. But of course, you don't make all the tires at the same time. So they could
be a variation in the tires and the tires are so important. The temperature of the tires,
the performance of the tires is so critical to that temperature. You're looking for,
you know, you're trying to, you know, let me just think of a good analogy. I mean,
you are really trying to thread, you know, a piece of cotton through a very small
eye of the needle. And if it's so easy to just get it wrong side of that. Anyway,
yeah, it's, it's a mystery. Well, there's a lot of variables. There's a hell of a lot of variables.
And, but I will add this one story, which is I, we used to go around Barcelona a lot,
testing, testing, testing, and we would come away quickest and the car was perfect. And we
come back here and it was cars all over the place. And I remember Patrick head coming in and going,
we spent all this money on testing and we come back here and we're completely useless.
How does this happen? Which is a fair point, Patrick? But I, I think we hopefully we explained
why because you test in January and you go back in May or June or something. It's completely
different. Right. Yeah. So the variables are really big. It's not the driver. No, no, no, no,
no. You did allude to it. I did. I can admit to those things.
Questions about our careers. Alex Schlesinger has posted a really interesting one. You both
had discussions with Ron Dennis and McLaren for Drives. I only, I never knew you did. But anyway,
apparently you did have a conversation with Ron. Any regrets in not trying to make it work? Do you
think your careers would have significantly changed had you ended up trying to make a deal?
Or do you think you would have been driven crazy by Ron's dot, dot, dot eccentricities?
What do you mean, Alex? By that, we'll hopefully we'll ask, we'll get to the bottom of this one.
What, what does he mean eccentricities? Very complicated, man, but you can't take anything
away with what he achieved as a team principal. He did some amazing, amazing championship wins.
He always got the sponsors on board. He always looked after the sponsors.
What I think in many ways, what we see in the Paddock of Formula One
is what Ron created. That was, he was so meticulous with everything that happened in the factory,
but everything and the look of what you had when you're in the Paddock. So he was very special
from that point of view. If eccentricity means perfectionism to the extent where it drives
everyone completely mad because you can never get to perfection, then I think that's probably one
of his strengths in a way because he, Ron, I remember was on the cover of Time Magazine or
something and said, is this the most successful manager in the world or something? It was something
to that effect, you know, and from a business point of view, he was exceptional in getting deals
and selling the team and polishing that McLaren thing to being this
unassailable team. It was at one point, virtually unassailable, but yes, very awkward to deal with
in the sense that he never gave you the sense that he, well, in my experience,
he didn't give me the sense that he really wanted me there. And there was an opportunity
to go there and I concluded, I got very close, but I concluded, look, if he doesn't want me there,
do I want to be there in a situation where I've been through that with Williams,
where I've been trying to get the sense that they actually thought I was worth keeping
and after leaving, being asked to leave. I concluded, well, I'm not putting myself through
that again. I'm only going to go somewhere if someone wants me to be there. And I didn't get
that sense with Ron, so I'd politely declined. Yeah, yeah, I never got that close actually
to signing anything. I went to the old factory working and I remember waiting outside,
Secretary said that you can go in, Ron was ready. I remember the door opening,
Ron was there behind his desk and I was expecting, morning, Johnny, how are you?
How's the family? Lovely weather out there. Welcome to McLaren and the first words that
came out of his mouth were, I need to change you for another driver. And so that didn't really
sort of go down very well in my mind. So within 10 seconds, I had already made up my mind,
I couldn't work, I couldn't work here with the team. And we carried on, we discussed,
walked around the factory and everything else. But Ron, I have to say, and I think Mickahacken
is probably the best example I can use where he molded Mickah into a little bit of a Ron,
a little bit of Ayrton. But then that worked perfectly because he supplied Mickah what he
needed from the team and the car to be able to produce what he did on the racetrack.
I think Mickahacken completely understood Ron. I think he thought he just, he just
do whatever Ron said, but at the same time do whatever he wanted. Yes, but he worked.
Yes. And that's where Ron was very much trying to create a mold, this special human,
special driver. And I think with someone like Mickah personally, I think it worked really,
really well. So. And the one of the parts of the questions is, do you have regrets of not making,
trying to make it work? No, I thought I sort of answered that. I have 10 seconds. No, I don't.
Well, I do have, I did have regrets because the moment I put the phone down to him and said,
you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I phoned him back about 10 minutes ago and said,
I mean, I might have been a bit hasty. But anyway, it was too late then.
I didn't know that to me. I didn't know that. I completely lost my nerve.
That's really good. But, but I get, again, we go back to what he achieved. He achieved some,
some brilliant stuff from that. Right. So Ben Kelly, next one, next question we got here.
Johnny. Oh, it's mine. What did, what victory did you enjoy more? Silverstone with Benneton or
Nurburgring with Stuart? What ones do you think? I don't know the answer to this, Johnny. I'm not
you. I know. You'll have to answer this one on your own. The first one. I enjoyed, I didn't
enjoy either of them because actually the reason I, because. Yeah, go on. Well, the first one,
yeah, thank you. Thank you. Many, many thank yous to that one with your little coming together
with Michael. And then you're, yeah, let's do Nurburgring. Yeah. What happened in Nurburgring
for you? I have no idea. I can't remember. Yes, you do. Come on. Come on. You didn't finish.
You didn't sort of last very long off the start. 99. No, you can't remember. Jordan, no.
This is like the, this is like the Jack Nicklaus quote about three-putting. And the journalist said,
what about the three-putting? He said, no, I never three-put. And they said, you just,
no, I never three-put. He did bring that up. So I have no idea what you're talking about. No,
he did bring that up the other day, didn't he, Jack? You'll need, he did. With the golf,
with the Masters, with the Royal. Yeah, the Masters. Yeah. So explain to me what happened
with Nurburgring because I don't remember. Well, I think you sort of, well, your teammate,
especially what, I think he was leading the way. Oh, I know. Yes. Come on. Yes. He left the pits.
Yeah. And he didn't sort of do the right things when he left the pits. Oh, no, there was this
thing we were supposed to turn off. Thing, thing. Yeah, go on. Yeah, go on. Share. Yeah, go on. Share.
Yeah. Got there in the end. Lost this thing. Right. Okay. Was that legal then? It was legal.
It was just, you had to turn it off when you've done a couple of laps and I forgot.
Hey, Pedra, the knees, I went slowing. This is, this is relevant. Oh, that's right. Yes.
Because it was the crash, wasn't it? This is relevant, actually. So we're talking about you,
if you answer this question, because this is... Yeah, well, the first, yes, clearly needs is our
civil zone, civil zone, because it was the first. You enjoy the first win.
And it's the British Grand Prix. British Grand Prix. Well done. Of course.
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. And the other thing is that this, the reason that
Johnny's alluding to trying to get, trying to embarrass me with this thing is because
there was some sort of device that we're supposed to turn off and it had to control
the clutch in some way. I can't remember what it did. But anyway, you did it at the start
and then you're supposed to turn it off. Otherwise, the engine shuts down. Well,
what happened? I'm going down to turn one. The engine shuts down. I'm going, what's going on?
Of course, Pedra Denise was behind me. Yeah. And this is reminiscent of what happened with
Oli Berman and Colin Pinto in Japan is suddenly I slowed down and he went over the top of me.
Yeah. And I thought I'd killed him. Yeah. You know, it was, it was horrible. I just,
I just, you know, I just poor old Pedra went over the top of me and he was my teammate in
arrows and stuff. And I just thought he went upside down and stuff. And I think at that moment,
I decided, I don't want to do this anymore. If I'm going to be making crass mistakes like that,
I do not want to hurt fellow drivers and stuff. So yeah, but you won because
Frenson stopped. Well, yeah. Well, Ralph had a puncture, remember? Was it Ralph?
Ralph had a puncture. Oh, so Ralph? That's right. Fizikella sort of kept sort of whizzing in the
track and then off the track. And I think on his third off, he actually didn't come back again.
And then that, that made me sort of win the race, which was quite nice in those tricky
conditions, tricky conditions. A bit of a diversion to a simple question with a very
complicated answer. Yes. Right. King Arthur, King Arthur 32, 36. Wasn't that 10, 10,
16? No, women's King Arthur was 800 AD or something. Yeah. Based on driving the car in preseason
testing, how accurate, how accurately could you predict how well your season was going to go?
Was the biggest, what was the biggest case of over underperforming that prediction in your
respective careers? All right. So in other words, do you know immediately, yes, they always say that
the car is quick out of the box is always going to be quick. What's quick out of the box? What is
quick out of the box? Well, you go to a track and you're quicker than everyone without doing anything
to the car. But when did you feel it was like famously with Jensen and the double diffuser?
He knew immediately. Immediately. Yeah. He didn't think he'd gone that quickly,
but he told him he was. I think you can feel within a couple of laps sometimes. It's either
good or it's just not any better than what we've had before. So you can feel pretty much how the
car is feeling straight out of the box, but within the first couple of laps, I think.
What about if you get a car that is really nice to drive, but it's bog slow?
You go horrible. You come in, they go, what is it like? And you go, all right, it's really good.
And they go, you were about 10 seconds off the pace. Yes. Then you go, oh, yeah.
The only thing that that's good for is the wet. Right. The only time that really, if it is slow,
it does actually go quite well when it's in the wet. I don't know that from the 102 when I was at
Lotus. It was rubbish in the drive, but it was. I can tell you on that, on that particular question,
the first time I drove the FW 18, I knew this was a fantastic car. Yeah. It was just so well
balanced. Anyway, moving on, right. Well, I'm going to finish up quickly there because there
were a bit about a car that wasn't any good straight out the box and struggle like, how was
the Jaguar? Absolutely. It looked awful. It looked, well, it was awful in the cockpit.
It should have come in the cockpit. It was. I mean, you didn't have to drive it to know that.
It was horrible. That was a horrible thing. So again, you knew quite early on.
We ain't going to have a good one this one. Yeah. Yeah. No one. Okay.
Christian Cabanca. Been listening to you. Hey, Damon. Hey, Christian. In the 1998
Argentinian Grand Prix, you and Johnny crashed into each other. No, no, no. We're afraid that.
Hey, Damon crashed into Johnny. I think that's great. I'm just reading his question. No, I know
that. I'm just correcting his question. Clearly, Johnny crashed into each other. Yes. You and
which we did. It takes two to tangled. You did. It takes two to tangled, Johnny. My question is,
who was at fault for that crash? And is there any animosity between the two of you
about that crash? Thank you. There is no animosity, is there, Johnny? I'd never let it go. No,
you haven't. I was going to win that race. Very angry, bitter man. We were fighting for
ninth and tenth. I think, got the interview with you after the race where you made your feelings
abundantly clear and you've never forgiven me. Damn right.
So far, the only thing that can go wrong now is the plane crashing away home.
I hope that doesn't happen to any bad luck. There you go. But you love me now. No, I don't.
I still have that little shot. There's a little shot of it. You drove in the back of me
and took myself out of the race with damage suspension where you just changed your little nose
after ramming me and carried on. Didn't finish probably anywhere near the points for sure.
But I thought it was very amateurish, breaking yourself like you did,
because you should have been very aware, very aware of who was in front of you.
So if you were a driver's student, you would have penalized me.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And rightly so. But anyway, Johnny Herbert,
I was coming through the pack and you had me over hill, exclamation mark, exclamation mark.
So I said, nasty, please forgive me. And then, okay, you're forgiven just this once.
There. That was yesterday. I'm going to bring it up. It's a fresh day.
A fresh day though. It happens. Hey, it happens. You know the rules. If you have an accident,
never say anything. Especially if someone drives in the back of you.
Yeah. Okay. Right. Sure. If it was my fault, which I'm not admitting, then I apologize.
I knew you wouldn't admit it. Because I'd like to have you as a friend,
not someone who's peed off with me. No, I know that. Right. Richard Ryle.
I'm going to do this one for you. So Damon, do you feel your early world champion
teammates, Mansell Prost Center, where I've benefited to you coming into F1?
Absolutely. Definitely. I mean, if you're going to go on stage with, you know, in F1, then go on
stage with the biggest names, you know, and then you've got a chance of, you know, if you take a
scalp off one of those guys, then that's an accolade, isn't it? That's something you can parade
around and go, well, how about that? Yeah. So I obviously center. I never got to the end of that
one. So I never knew where I would have measured up. It seemed pretty obvious to me. He was going
to whip my ass, you know, because he was very quick. But I got a question on this one. Which
one of those Mansell Prost Center did you learn something from? You learned it from everyone.
I mean, I think one of the problems is I learned a lot from watching them before I even got to
the team. Yes, of course. So I sort of felt like I knew what they were about before even
was teammates with them. But you do, I mean, they just, they were really professional. I mean,
they were proper sports people. They didn't, they didn't have anything to you on a plate,
but at the same time, they didn't, they didn't seem to me to be out to make your life uncomfortable
in any other way than just going faster than you. So I really have massive respect for all of them.
And I think Mansell, I mean, I do think Mansell does not get the recognition that he deserves
for his abilities, you know, he was a bravery and incredible speed. Yes.
So one of the, one of the biggest names, I think, yes, he, he had these occasional
moments where he maybe didn't do the right thing, but mostly what a great racing ride.
Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. So yes, there was always a wow factor.
Wow. Great for the show.
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Andy Villa, GB. Hi, both. Please could I ask you both what was so great about F1 when you were
racing as someone who loves old F1? I feel the F1 of today is badly missing something that was
there in the 90s. So I wondered if you had any ideas as to how it was all better in your day?
This is a trap question, isn't it? I don't know. It was always better in the old days,
exactly. Which is what this generation would be saying in the 15, 20 years time. Oh, it was
better back then. No, but I mean, really, I get your point, Andy. I think that the world was
totally different in the 1990s. The knowledge was different. Anyway, we have the world as we
have it now. I think that the lack of interference from technology. I remember when I was leaving
F1 in the end of the 90s, the engineer was doing most of the work on the computer, and he wasn't
talking to me. So previous to that, it was, I talked to my engineer, he has a notepad,
and he writes down what I've said. And increasingly, I felt the encroachment of the computer
meant that that dialogue was lost because they had the data. They didn't need to talk to the driver.
So the driver's input became less and less. And to the point where today we have the
engineers telling the drivers how to drive. Yes. And I don't think, I don't know if that's what
we want. I don't know if that's what we want to see. That's not the skill of the driver.
Yeah, the skill of the driver should be just that raw feeling. Because when I went into Formula 1,
I had one button on my steering wheel. When the engineer wanted to talk to me, I had to stop
outside the garage. He'd come along with his little plug and pull the plug from my helmet,
plug it in. We'd have a chat. And then it unplugged and I go on the circuit. And I didn't hear from
anybody because obviously we'd had no wireless communication back in those days. But the computer,
who was the computer back then where we data, I think there was probably a speed trace, throttle
trace, potentially a rev and a brake and a brake trace. And that was it. The computer was us.
We were the ones who were feeling what was going on and then feeding that back to the
engineer, which I think from a driver's perspective is more fun. And you're more connected with the
car but with the team, with the engineer. Where now the technology, and I totally understand where
the technology and why the technology has gone so far advanced as it has today,
because perfection is much closer to happening. Where in the old days, it didn't quite, there
was a compromise on a setup, for example, when tracks were quite bumpy. We don't have bumpy tracks
anymore. But if there was a bump going into cops corner, just for example, you'd have to probably
change the spring to absorb that bump that was on the circuit. But then it would actually be worse
on faster, faster corners because you're softer, softer sprung. So there was a, that compromise
that used to be an important part of it. But the engineers just want perfection. If there's ever
a bump nowadays, that bump has to be ironed out and taken away. But I think that's character.
The drivers want perfection as well. I mean, how many times do you hear drivers talking about,
oh, that's the perfect lap? Are you aiming for perfection? But the point is it's always,
I think the word here that we're looking for is art. In other words, there was a thing called the
art of driving. And that was some people had an instinct for it and others didn't. And they were
then revered as being artists on the track. And my dad famously quoted saying, you know, the track is
the car is my brush and the track is my canvas, you know, you literally thought of it in terms of
painting. And I think that that now I feel drivers are slightly frustrated. They feel a little bit
like they are being coached all the time. And I certainly, I listen to the radio communications
and I go, why don't you just tell them to shut up and leave? And they do tell them to shut up and
leave me alone, you know, Kimmy famously. Those characters are gone. Reichen and not Antonelli.
But, you know, I think that, but every generation accepts the new paradigm and they get on with
what they've got. And so I'm not saying, I'm not saying it's, it's different. It is different,
but it's not saying it's better or worse. I'm just saying things have changed and you cannot
put the genie back in the bottle. And the genie is computing power and data and technology.
I try and put him back in the bottle and I try and put him in the bottle and say on a Friday,
teams do what you want, collect as much data as you want. Saturday, do what you want.
Sunday, that is the best we've been able to create over to you and do it on the old, the old
style way. You have your briefing before the race, your strategy briefing, you get into the race
and then it's down to the driver having to think about it, change his style to the conditions
that are going in. Well, no, no, there's still part of it because it's still part of the weekend.
You're still going to have that strategy meet. But as far as still having that communication,
less of it, because I think there's too, to me, there's too much communication of making the
strategy too perfect all the time. We don't always want perfect. This is a real problem,
is the closer you get to perfection, the less variation you get, the less interest you get.
So in other words, in a way, what we want is people to make mistakes because that makes it
unpredictable. Yes. Anyway, that's a discussion on the eras, the contrasting eras. But I would
encourage Andy to watch races. I think there's still, I still find them, I get excited watching,
you know, I get excited before a race starts. I like to see what's going to happen. And I like
to see cars being driven by these guys who are brilliant at what they do. I still think the
very best drivers have the sort of bigger capacity to get the best out of the cars. It's different,
the whole way the whole strategy works and the energy deployment and everything else is,
you've got to learn how to do that. So it's just a different toolset, I suppose, than it,
that it used to do, used to be, but it's a good question. Right, question for you, Damon here,
it's from Barney Woodbridge. In an alternative world where the Adelaide 1994 collision sends
Michael Schumacher out, but your car is able to be fixed with you rejoining in sixth, do you think
Nigel Mansell would have dropped back to sixth, giving up a win for you to get fifth and win the
world championship? This is a little bit like the scenarios talked about with Piastri and Abidabi
last year. What's the expression if my auntie had, she'd be my uncle, obviously in there, but
in the interest of an entertaining, very good question, but I have to say that. I'm fascinated
on the answer. I've never thought about whether that would have come up, but let's say we're in
that situation now with Nigel. Would have given up. So he uses the example of Piastri and Abidabi
last year. Slightly different. I think it's an interesting comparison. I was thinking also of
Sterling Moss and Mike Hawthorne where he could have protested because Mike Hawthorne got a push,
and if he'd been penalized or something, then Sterling Moss could have been a world champion.
So would Nigel, well, I look put it this way, I would have hate for him to have been put in that
situation because you would have expected him to do the right thing. And do we expect Nigel to
do the right thing? Is that the right thing to do? I need your obligation as a racing driver
to do whatever you want. I mean, that would have been a great thing. Patrick or Frank coming on the
radio. Can you imagine? Nigel, can you please? This is Frank, by the way. It's Frank's voice.
Nigel, please drop back and give Dame the point. Whatever.
I can't hear you. I can't hear you. I can't hear you. I can't hear you. We've got something wrong
with me. Patrick, I'm telling you now, let Dame on pass. All right, yo, it's broken. I think I'm
unconscious. Again, that would be the story, wouldn't it? Sorry, Nigel. We're having fun at your
yes. It would have been a wonderful scenario to watch. Thankfully, it never happened.
So, yeah. Right, then, would you have been rubbed twice on that one?
Dear right, go on then. Let's carry on. Next one. Good question though. Where'd I'm
at, Johnny? At Goose, TG 98. What's the scariest crash you went through? Do you process
crashes? Do you process crashes in slow motion, meaning can you recall the moments leading up
to the point of being fat? Over to you, Johnny. Yes, so I've sort of went through a little
crash, Goose. Brand's Hatch 1988. Slow motion. I got tagged from behind by Gregor Wojtek,
absolute idiot, and that sent me off into the barrier head on. It's available on YouTube.
It is on YouTube. It's very spectacular. It's quite scary. It's not just me who goes off. There's
about another 20 companies. Oh my god, you did it properly. I did it properly. I think it was
only six left. But you are sitting here talking to us now, entertaining us. Yes. We love your
company, Johnny, and I swear to God, honestly, it was an awful time for all of us who knew you,
and it was much worse for you. Yes, much worse. Again, the damage to my ankles was immense,
and I was so lucky, and that goes back to Peter Collins, who gave me that chance of
being a tend to finish fourth in my first Grand Prix when I wasn't really, I wouldn't call it a
walk. It was just a sort of a shuffle. So yes, but was it slow motion? Yes, it was very slow
motion. Everything really does slow down in a very slow way as you go into the barrier on the left
hand side. I remember it spinning around, going head on on the other side with the front of the
car already taken away, my legs hanging out the front, and then sort of stopping, and it all
happened quickly. But the moment lasted, you know, minutes. It's amazing how it was. You were able to
recall it. Yeah. Yeah. Even to this day? Yeah, even to this day. I had another one in Valolunga,
my helmet actually hit the barrier when I was taken off by Gregor Wojtek as well,
and my head had batted the arm cut, and I still can't remember walking back
across the track over the barrier into the medical centre. It's the first time I remember
coming around when I was doing a urine test in a little bottle. So that one I don't remember,
Brand's Hatch, yes. I also hit the barrier with my head. I can't tell.
It's not faking me at all, is it? But that was in Nickerbrook at Alton Park.
Oh, right, yes. And I don't remember, I remember it's going up the curb. Yeah.
And I do remember my, I woke up in a wreck in the middle of the track, but my helmet had a massive
great gouging from the arm curve. So when you say does it come back in slow motion, I don't remember
anything about it. So no. That one you were, that one you were, now they didn't know. It was one that
happened in testing in, at Williamson, turned to flat out, sixth gear corner at Esterel.
And it went round so quickly, I cannot remember it, the car reversing.
One minute was going forwards, the next minute was going backwards, and I just waited for the big bang.
Yeah. And then I, yeah, ricocheted across the road. I remember doing one in front of you in
Barcelona. They're in your wing glass. And I, same thing, and it just turned left
so quickly. It's amazing. It just turns. Yeah. Not drifts or anything. It just literally does turn
left. Yeah. Flung you into the barrier. Flung you into the barrier. And then you went rolling down
the road again. Yeah. Well, he sort of, he sort of tried to fly, but then hit the barrier luckily
and then came back down again. But he lasted a long, a long way. But that was part of it,
unfortunately. It's the ones, the guys who, Peter Dumbrek and people like that, and Mark Webber,
who went, who went flying in the mall. Flipping at the mall. Yeah. Very incredible stories.
Because of course, the point is, he goes silent. Yes. They were saying they were,
they're flying through the air and it's like, no noise. No, no, it must be absolutely terrible.
Well, Peter Dumbrek's really interesting because he landed and they take, taken some trees down,
I think, anyway. So they take some trees down before the race and he landed. But the tree stump
went through the passenger side. Oh my God. How lucky is that? So Mark landed back on the track
on all four wheels and drove back and said, I've just done a one, you know, 360 backflip.
Yeah. And they didn't believe it. They said, no, you've, what have you done to the car?
Nothing. It's taken away, it took off and went upside down. Anyway. Yeah. So yeah, crashes are
a good thing. And luckily with the technology we have nowadays, we don't see many of those.
Yours, that was. Yeah, Brandt Hatch. Brandt Hatch was the scariest for me. I think the scariest,
probably the crashes I didn't have, which was driving in the wet places like Spa,
where you are scared, but you didn't crash. But, you know, only by pure fluke, you didn't crash.
I mean, yeah, anyway. Remember the 96, 96 star where the rain and everybody was just
cars. Cars and wheels and everything going on 96. It's not much from 98, 98. Well done.
It's got incredible Wikipedia, you know, AI producer here. You can remember everything.
Yes. Thank goodness. I did have a crash once where in testing, while we're on the subject,
where I'd had, you know, you get neck problems and stuff from whiplash and everything.
And so I was coming in the pits and Physikella decided to come in at the last minute in Barcelona,
turn the last but one corner. And I took, I had to avoid him. So I went left and straight into
the barrier. And now as I was heading into the barrier, I remember seeing this is going to be
a big and I just, I just thought we can't fight it because you can't physically resist. So you
just relax. Yeah. And I remember the, I remember the seatbelts are stretching and my neck being
stretched as I went forward. And then it went pop like I was going to the chiropractor. And when
I, when I sat back, I was much better. When I sat, I went, I feels really good now. Well,
honestly, that was, so there's a benefit that came out of that. That was wrecked, but my neck
was better. Nice one. Nice one goes like that one. Okay. Right. So we got at the Wilbury seven.
Was there ever a moment in your careers where you felt you weren't good enough?
And how did you overcome it? I still wonder how did I overcome it?
What did you overcome it? No, I think the only way to overcome it is to look at the results.
Yeah, there is that. I can't fight this at all. Because it's not the same.
But you, you are the opposite to me. You, because you were brilliant, you are brilliant.
Were. Yeah. But you, but you were brilliant. But you didn't have any doubts about your
speed because it was, it was obvious to everyone that you were an incredible talent.
Yeah. And you still are. Yeah. Thank you very much. But, you know, but for that stupid bloke
and Brown's hat, I mean, what could have been, you know, but the point is,
I do think this is interesting because there are two states of mind to be competitive. And they
did a, I remember they did a, I think Marlborough, a tobacco brand that we don't talk about.
We don't do anymore. But there was a cigarette brand, I should say. I won't mention the name.
Erase that bit. So there was a, there was a people who, a company that sold cigarettes that
involved in motorsport in a big way. And they commissioned a sports psychologist to come up with
some observations about racing drivers. And they analyzed people, Alan Prost and so forth. And
they concluded that the drivers who were best had doubts about their abilities. And they were always
trying to find ways to be better. Whereas if you have utter confidence, then the presumption is
they've got nothing to learn. And that's a mistake. So I think that, I think that doubts about your
ability in some ways can be a good thing. But, but you must show confidence. In other words,
you have to have confidence in your abilities that you do have. And, and it's a delicate balance
between being overconfident and being, and being so doubtful that you can't perform.
Yeah. And it's that willing to keep learning as well. Because I go to what Alan Prost said
after his last race, I was still learning something up till the last lap of my last race.
And you do, you're always learning something. And you're trying to sort of perfect yourself.
Yeah. Someone explained to me once that the perfect is a verb. In other words, it is too
perfect. In other words, it's a process where you, you come from a position and you want to be
better. So it's a never ending process. But you have to have faith in your ability to do that.
Yeah. But yeah, anyway, so it is an interesting whole subject. Yeah. The only time I had that
to not good enough was at the end of my career, aren't you? So I wasn't enjoying it anymore.
That's it. And I had to overcome it. I, my left. But that, that's, that's wisdom,
isn't it? And that's experience coming in. I don't think that's a negative.
I think it's not negative. If you're, if your mind and your soul is telling you,
this is time to move on from this, then, then it's, then it's,
you've listened to your voice. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Indeed. Okay. Nice one. The last one,
Johnny. Come on. Okay, go on. Right. Damon and Johnny, this is at scene artisan. Damon and Johnny,
most hardcore F1 fans know about the Calfard and Schumacher spat at Spa in 1998 when David got
an angry visit from Michael in the, in the pit lane. Did you ever get into any similar spats with
other drivers, other as a victim or an aggressor, whether in F1 or earlier in your careers?
I don't remember too many, but I think when I was a young, slightly angry young man, I do remember
having a guy I raced with in Formula Ford who crashed into me and I was very annoyed with him.
Yeah. And he, he was at Silverstone, at Silverstone and he was walking away. We've got out of our
cars and the race was still going on and our cars were wrecked in the barriers and
he was walking back to the pits and I was sort of chasing after him, shouting, shouting,
I, are you idiot? Blah, blah, blah. It made a difference, did it? I mean, that was the point,
you know, so. Yes. Yeah. No, I'm a lover, not a fighter. Johnny, what are you? Oh, yes. Yes. Yes.
We all don't believe that one. Absolute toffee. The only time I remember was actually it was
karting. I was British championship Felton and was leading the race and a driver behind knocked me
out. I drove back, got to second and then when we got into the pit lane, I just drove into the back
of him. Quite literally just drove into the back of him. He made you feel he needed to know. Yes,
had a bit of a shout on the screen, but that was sort of it. I, again, I was never. How old were
you then? 12, 12. Perhaps you'd like to explain to our younger listeners that that is not the way
to behave, Johnny. No, it's not the way to behave. We were not advocating that. But it was the right
thing to do at the time. It felt good. It felt good. It felt good. Exactly. That was good. Yeah,
not really. The only other great story I always have, I think it was Donnington biting Formula
three, I think it was, and it was Bertrand Gashow. Well, listen, I tell you what, he's
a lovely guy, by the way, now. I've had lots of lovely conversations with Bertrand since.
He was quite aggressive. Oh, he's very aggressive. He might have been one of those drivers in that
cigarette survey, psychological thing that we mentioned earlier, who came out on the wrong side.
On the wrong side. Yeah, he still is on the wrong side. Marko Greco. Do you remember Marko Greco?
Yes. You remember the Brazilian guy really big and everything else. And I don't know what,
something Bertrand did on track, probably just cut him off or put him on the grass or somewhere
or into the barrier, whatever it may be. Which he did a lot of. Yes, you're right. Yes, I've got
another story about one going to that one. So anyway, so he took him off and he, Marko Greco,
then came to his garage to have a word with him. Yeah. But he had the jack handle,
the big jack handle that he went in there and basically sort of attacked him. He didn't actually
whack him with it because there was just a brawl there. Everybody just jumped on top of both of
them to stop them happening. Not to join in. No, no, no, no. So that was a very close moment
of being quite a messy, messy pit lane in, in Don and Tobar. I remember that. So there are
those characters that do come out and of course see in Michael because he thought DC did it on
purpose. That was really his beef with everything that happened in Spa, wasn't it? Yes. You are
pumped up when you're driving. So it is very easy to, when you get out of the car and you've got
this energy, it needs to go somewhere. Sometimes it turns against someone. As you said, DC, well,
Michael was really upset with DC and Spa. And I think he was, I think the, he jumped out the car
in the garage, came in and he wanted to have it out with, with DC because DC was tooling along on
the racing line in the wet. And he didn't, not only did he put him out of the race, race victory,
but he also scared himself, I think, because he came out the blue. I mean, he was probably
more, do you think it was more fear or anger? I think it probably would have been, but I say
probably more anger. You think it was just, I think initially the fear, then the anger came
because of the fear. Yes. And so he had to be held back. But of course there are other incidents
where we can recall where people like James Hunt, who got, he was biffed off or something. He was
waiting on the side of the track in Montreal, I think, or Quebec, or somewhere in, in, in, in
Canada, I think it was. And he was waiting on the side of the track to shake his fist at the driver
who was, he was angrier. And the marshal came up to drag him. Yeah. And he swung round and not this
guy clean out. It was a proper. And he poleaxed him. Yes, he did. And it was a hell of a, a hell of a
blow. And then immediately realized he'd done an awful thing and went over and tried to apologize
and compensate for the blow. But then there's the Salazar PK and handbags, a dorm punching
match with their helmets on. Yes, yes. Legs and legs. And they were, yes, it was quite good.
Very nervous. So quite often you do look ridiculous. But Bertrand Gashow, just to,
just to, for people who are interested, looking him up on Wikipedia, he did actually make it all
the way to Brixton, once with Prisoner, I think it was. He did. Yes, he did. Yes. But that wasn't
a taxi driver. The taxi driver with the, anyway, he's had an interesting life, Bertrand.
He's here. He's a good guy. He's a good guy. Right. I've got another special question for
coming, coming your way. Right. So compare McKaylee. Damon, did you really win the British Grand Prix
whilst driving around with a Scotch egg in your cockpit? Gifted to you by Bob Mortimer. True or
false? Okay. So there is, was it, would I lie to you? What's the, what's the quiz show?
Those of you who don't know what it is. It's a quiz show. It's a TV quiz show. And it would I
lie to you? I once helped Damon Hill to Grand Prix success by presenting him with a pre-race
snack. David's team. Well, it certainly tripped off the tongue. Thank you. What was the snack?
A Scotch egg. I get asked this all the time. I mean, people are interested in whether you
won the world championship or not. They just want to know whether did you have a good Bob Mortimer
give you a Scotch egg? Right. So, so he's in the Williams Motown. I invited him along because
I liked Vic and Bob. And so he's there with his girlfriend partner and they're in the Williams
Motown and he's eating a Scotch egg. And so I walked past and said, oh, Bob, how are you doing? I said,
yeah, I said, I've got, um, this is, this is my Scotch egg. It's a lucky Scotch egg. Would you like
it? That is true. That's what happened. So he offered me a lucky Scotch egg. Okay. And I think
I accepted in so far as the gesture was accepted. I did not race with a Scotch egg in my car. But
that little bit is a it says he's right. It is true. But it wasn't. If I get out, get out of your
mind. I'm driving around with a Scotch egg. I'm disappointed now. There is some truth like
all the things like everything. There's some of the germ of truth. There's a Scotch egg of truth
in it. Yes, you actually did touch the egg. I didn't. It was eating it. I didn't put it in my
pocket. Second hand. Second hand. Well, that was the thing. I thought he'd just shove it in there.
Can you imagine the Scotch egg? No, yeah, that was, that wouldn't be very nice. So anyway, so
that's the truth. So yes and no, he's actually to that one then. Apocryphal, but true. Yeah,
really good. No, I enjoyed that. Yeah, that was good. That was really nice to have a bit of an
idea. Being very hard. Guys, honestly, just go easy with the questioning. I can't, I can't take it
the athletic
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