Damon Hill and Johnny Herbert dig into whether F1’s 2026 “Mario Kart” style racing is working after the first two races. They praise the entertainment and closer racing—especially the more frequent on-track battles—while criticizing the strange feel of cars slowing before high-speed corners to harvest energy. They debate whether overtakes are happening for the right reasons (boost/harvest vs late braking) and what tweaks are needed to restore “flat-out” drama. Standouts include George Russell’s early pace, and Arvid Lindblad and Kimi Antonelli’s impressive debuts, with Lewis Hamilton also looking rejuvenated.
Damon Hill and Johnny Herbert return to discuss a polarising pair of races to kick-start the 2026 season. Some have controversially compared the racing to Mario Kart - but is that a fair comparison, and is it actually a good thing? Our grand prix winners discuss what they've liked and disliked about the new rules, debate whether F1 should exist more to thrill the drivers or entertain fans, and share their stand-out drivers of the season so far.
Get bonus F1 podcasts, extra content and ad-free listening, sign-up to The Race Members' Club on Patreon today. For a limited time you can get 90% off your first month!
"I mean, their last run in Australia of George's lap. I mean, he was incredible. He just, they just literally went round and round, didn't show their hand at all."
A lap is one full trip around the race track. Faster lap times usually mean the car is quicker on that stint.
A “lap” is one complete circuit of the track. In F1, teams and commentators often compare lap times to judge raw pace, tire behavior, and how close competitors are.
"And then out of the blue, seven tenths faster than anyone lap from George. But, you know, perfectly timed."
“Seven tenths faster” means about 0.7 seconds quicker on a lap. In F1, that’s a pretty big difference.
“Seven tenths” is shorthand for a lap-time gap of 0.7 seconds, which is a large margin in F1 qualifying or race pace comparisons. It indicates a substantial performance step relative to the rest of the field.
"But Ferrari are a good surprise, aren't they? Because they're nice sort of in the frame."
Ferrari is a top Formula 1 team with a long winning history. When they say Ferrari is a “good surprise,” they mean Ferrari performed better than many expected.
Ferrari is one of F1’s most historic and successful teams, and it’s frequently discussed as a benchmark for performance. When the hosts call Ferrari a “good surprise,” they’re referencing how their early results compared to expectations.
"What does everybody complain about of a Formula One? Well, there's not much overtaking going on."
They’re talking about Formula One, the highest level of open-wheel racing. The hosts are judging whether the latest changes make the races more exciting to watch.
The discussion is about Formula One, the top tier of open-wheel racing. They’re evaluating how rule changes affect overtaking, entertainment, and on-track racing quality.
"...let's just do the cars, take away the technology, the cars actually work very, very well. They do seem to be able to... Give me the chassis."
The chassis is the car’s main structural platform that affects how the car handles and responds to driver inputs. The hosts credit the “whole package” of the chassis for working better, implying improved balance and cornering behavior.
"that's a good thing, because when you go to some circuits, they're processional, they used to be processional, because the cars couldn't get close in the fast corner."
“Processional” means the cars just kind of cruise in order with not much overtaking. The speaker thinks the changes make racing more competitive.
“Processional” means the race becomes more like a parade—cars follow each other with little real fighting. The speaker says extending races and changing how close cars can get in fast corners helps reduce processional racing.
"Yeah, they should be going hell for leather right up to the point where they have to break."
It means going as hard as possible. They’re saying F1 should feel like drivers are pushing right up to the braking point.
“Hell for leather” is an idiom meaning maximum effort—full commitment at the limit. In the context of F1, it emphasizes staying fast and aggressive until braking, rather than backing off early due to format constraints.
"Here's a quote from Helmut Marco... There were no real overtaking maneuvers in the sense that one driver"
Overtaking maneuvers are the specific actions drivers use to pass—typically involving braking, corner entry positioning, and exit traction. The quote they’re setting up suggests concern that the current racing format produces fewer true passes.
"I think when we raced in the 90s, it was pretty flat out the whole way through. You know, lift and coast, never ever did that. Except when we raced at Le Mans, for example, that was the only time we did that."
“Lift and coast” means you stop pressing the gas and let the car roll for a moment. Drivers do it to save fuel or manage energy, not to go faster immediately.
“Lift and coast” is a driving technique where the driver eases off the throttle and coasts to save fuel or manage energy. The speakers contrast eras of racing—saying they didn’t use it much in the 90s, except in specific situations.
"You know, lift and coast, never ever did that. Except when we raced at Le Mans, for example, that was the only time we did that. To save fuel? Yeah, to save fuel."
Le Mans is a very long, famous race where teams have to manage resources like fuel and tires. Because it’s endurance racing, drivers sometimes change how they drive to make the car last the whole distance.
Le Mans is the famous endurance race in France, known for long stints and heavy emphasis on fuel and tire management. The speakers use it as an example of when “lift and coast” was used to save fuel.
"Except when we raced at Le Mans, for example, that was the only time we did that. To save fuel? Yeah, to save fuel."
“Save fuel” means you drive in a way that uses less gasoline. In endurance-style situations, that can be necessary even if it costs a bit of speed.
“Save fuel” refers to fuel-economy management during races, which can affect throttle use, coasting, and overall pace. The speakers mention it as the reason lift-and-coast showed up at Le Mans, and as a theme in earlier turbo-era fuel concerns.
"There was always a tire part of it where we had to look after it and try and get it through. That's still there. But that's all part of the whole bubble of what a driver has to do."
Tires aren’t just for grip—they also wear out during the race. Drivers have to manage tire condition so they don’t lose speed later.
The “tire part of it” highlights that tire management is a major performance factor in F1. Even when cars are fast, drivers must manage tire wear and grip to stay competitive across the stint.
"...if you go back to the very beginning of Formula 1, it was what the manufacturers... wanted to prove their product was better..."
Formula 1 is the top level of open-wheel racing. Teams and car companies use it to show their technology works and that their cars can be reliable.
Formula 1 (F1) is motorsport where teams race to prove performance and reliability, and manufacturers use it as a marketing and engineering proving ground. Historically, racing success was used to demonstrate that a brand’s road cars were dependable.
"...they were always talking about safety belts, for example. Actually, safety belts came in before they came in on race..."
Safety belts are what you buckle in to keep you from flying forward in a crash. The discussion is about how racing can help push safety ideas into everyday cars.
Safety belts (seat belts) are restraint systems designed to reduce injury in crashes. The speaker’s point is that safety technology often appears in racing before it becomes common in road cars, or at least is promoted through racing.
"...So Formula 1 was showing itself to be a good test bed or promoting road safety..."
A test bed is a place where new ideas get proven in real conditions. In F1, companies use racing to test technology before it shows up in regular cars.
A “test bed” is a real-world environment used to develop and validate technology. In motorsport, F1 acts as a test bed for reliability, safety, and performance systems that can later influence road-car engineering.
"...people like Ford came in to show that their brand of engine was better..."
Ford is a car company. The speaker is saying that brands like Ford use racing to show their engines and technology are better.
Ford is a major global automaker that has participated in motorsport for decades, including using racing to showcase engineering. Here, it’s mentioned as an example of a manufacturer trying to prove its powertrain/engine technology through F1 involvement.
"...whether it's Audi or Ford or wherever, because they're going to be selling hybrids..."
Audi is a well-known car brand. Here it’s mentioned as one of the companies that could benefit from (and invest in) F1’s hybrid technology push.
Audi is a major automaker that has competed in top-level motorsport and has strong engineering ties to hybrid and performance powertrains. The speaker lists Audi as one of the brands the FIA wants to attract to F1’s hybrid direction.
"They said there's a girl who's got the record for
funny cars in America or something in a quarter mile."
Funny cars are a type of drag racing car in the U.S. They’re built for huge power over a short sprint, not for road-course racing.
“Funny cars” are a class of American drag racing cars known for very powerful engines and short, intense runs. The hosts use it as an example of extreme straight-line performance and how that doesn’t automatically translate to the kind of entertainment F1 aims for.
"[1517.7s] something as well. It's not, you know, it's not in the DNA of F1. This is not what we should,
[1522.4s] they're not getting the kick."
They mean “what makes F1 feel like F1.” The idea is that the sport has a certain character, and the new approach might be changing it too much.
“DNA of F1” is a phrase meaning the fundamental identity of Formula One—how it should feel in terms of driving challenge, strategy, and authenticity. The speakers use it to argue that excitement shouldn’t come at the cost of what makes F1 uniquely skill-based.
"...Jack Villeneuve went round the outside of Michael Schumacher in the last corner, Esterel?"
Michael Schumacher is a legendary F1 driver. The point is that even he could be challenged with a really daring move, which made it memorable.
Michael Schumacher is one of F1’s most dominant and influential drivers. The mention of him emphasizes how rare and impressive it was for someone to challenge him with a late, outside-the-corner overtake.
"I mean, do you remember when Jack Villeneuve went round the outside of Michael Schumacher in the last corner, Esterel?"
Jack Villeneuve is a famous former F1 champion. They’re bringing him up because he made a daring overtake that shows the kind of excitement they miss.
Jack Villeneuve is a former Formula 1 World Champion known for bold overtakes. The speaker uses his move as an example of the kind of bravery and high-risk racing that fans found memorable.
"And this car is trying to get away from him. And he's trying to keep [2208.3s] the pedal to the metal."
“Pedal to the metal” is a phrase meaning full throttle—using maximum accelerator input. In racing commentary, it emphasizes that the driver is committing to speed even if the car is difficult to control.
"except probably the Bridgestone era with Michael and Ferrari, where it was literally a qualified
lap. Michelin. Because the tyres is Bridgestone. But where the tyres were so good, you could
literally do all that pushing all the way through the race."
Bridgestone makes the tyres used in F1. If the tyres work really well and last, drivers can go faster for longer, which affects how the race feels.
Bridgestone is one of Formula 1’s official tyre suppliers. In this era, the tyres were described as so consistent that drivers could push hard for long stretches, changing how races played out.
Concept
F2
"...have a tough time last year of F2. But it seems to be more than competent at being able to drive his cars brilliantly."
F2 is short for Formula 2. It’s the level just below Formula 1 where drivers prove they’re ready for the big leagues.
F2 is shorthand for Formula 2, the series directly below F1 in the modern driver development ladder. Results in F2 are often used by F1 teams to judge readiness for an F1 seat.
"So he's even teasing them and telling them, you've got to look a bit harder. We've given you the power unit, now you need to find out how to use the deployment and various things like that."
The “power unit” is the car’s engine system (including the hybrid parts). It’s not just about having power—it’s about using it at the right times during the race.
In modern F1, the “power unit” is the complete engine-and-hybrid system that provides propulsion, including the internal combustion engine and energy recovery components. Damon’s point is that teams must not only have the power, but also use it effectively via deployment strategies.
"...with Max not being very happy where he is, is he going to be taken by Mercedes, which means they're going to get rid of George?"
Mercedes is a famous F1 team. When they’re linked to a driver, it usually means big changes because they’re one of the strongest teams in the sport.
Mercedes is a top Formula 1 constructor and one of the sport’s most prominent teams. Driver moves involving Mercedes are major because the team’s resources and performance expectations are extremely high.
"also tested with Nigel's three and a half litre V10 FW 14, I think it was, with the big rear tires."
A V10 is an engine with 10 cylinders. In racing, it usually means the engine can rev very high and feel very responsive.
A V10 is an engine with ten cylinders arranged in a V shape. In F1, V10s were known for high-revving performance and a distinct sound and throttle response compared with other engine layouts.
"I heard a commentator saying
something which they probably shouldn't have said, which is, this is like Formula Three.
It was so exciting. In terms of racing, if you go to 125 motorcycles, the 125 or 250s,
because they're so underpowered and because they have to slipstream, they're always going
around in a bunch."
Slipstream is when you drive behind another vehicle and get a drafting effect that helps you go faster with less effort. It’s one reason races can stay bunched together.
Slipstream is the aerodynamic effect where a car behind benefits from reduced air resistance caused by the car in front. In motorcycle racing, it can encourage tight packs and frequent passing attempts.
"... for the driver. And then they have you have the gladiator well factor on the on the in the grandstand as we..."
The Jeep Gladiator is a pickup truck, which means it has an open cargo bed in the back. It’s made for driving on rough roads or off-road trails, while still being useful for hauling things. That’s why it can be mentioned when people talk about practical “go-anywhere” vehicles.
The Jeep Gladiator is a midsize pickup truck built by Jeep, combining the brand’s off-road capability with an open-bed truck design. It’s often discussed in contexts where people want a vehicle that can handle rough terrain but still carry gear like tools, bikes, or camping equipment. In a motorsport or event setting, it may come up as an example of a rugged, practical vehicle rather than a pure performance car.
"one disappointment for this season, obviously losing two races, two Grand Prix as well, of course. Well, we got to know the fact that the world is..."
A Grand Prix is basically one full F1 race event at a particular track. It includes the build-up sessions and then the main race.
A Grand Prix is an individual F1 race event held at a specific venue, typically over a weekend with practice and qualifying leading into the race. The hosts mention losing two Grand Prix, meaning two separate race weekends.
"The Athletic are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Because progressive offers discounts..."
Progressive is an insurance company. The ad is saying you may be able to save money on car insurance with certain discounts and good customer support.
Progressive is an insurance company mentioned in a commercial segment, highlighting discounts and customer service. While not directly related to racing, it’s a relevant automotive-adjacent brand for listeners thinking about vehicle coverage.
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Coming up on this episode of Stay On Track, I want to get wowed by the drivers. I think the
people that watch it who are sitting there on that grandstand at turn 9 and 10 want to be
wowed by the drivers and wowed by the speed that those cars go through that corner.
They're slowing down before they get there, which is freaky and it's sort of disappointing.
Even if we were having a race together in 10th position, we would be happy that we'd had a bit
of a ding-dong on the track. We need to keep people entertained for an hour and a half to two hours
watching a race. And if nothing happens in that, then they're going to walk away.
Your brain says, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is too quick. This is mad. This is mad.
It's a bit like a night out, isn't it? It's a bit like, oh, what the hell? And then you pay the price tomorrow.
You haven't seen us since before the first race. Or heard from us. Some people aren't watching.
Some people aren't listening at all. All watching. Moriboli, yes, exactly. But we had a few predictions.
Well, we had to guess, didn't we? What to expect? Everyone was guessing what the hell is this going
to be like? What is 2026 going to be like? We hadn't even had a race, but no, we've had two,
and we can get stuck into it. But we made some very interesting predictions. Front to back.
Yeah. So the front to back. So the fastest car to the slowest car we reckoned was about
3.5 seconds. And what was it in actual fact? I'm not 100% sure. It was around that. It was
close enough. So I think we scored a, I was going to say, were we spot on? I think we're
supposed to be in spot on. So come to us for your predictions. Mystic. Who did we say was going to
win the race? Oh, that was an easy one. That was an easy one. That was George. Yeah, exactly. Got
it slightly wrong with China, but we'll get to that. Oh, yeah, we'll get to that in a moment. Yes.
And I suppose the last thing was after all the testing in Bahrain and stuff, it was the
prediction that, well, they sandbagged and they certainly were. And they certainly were. Yeah.
I mean, their last run in Australia of George's lap. I mean, he was incredible. He just, they just
literally went round and round, didn't show their hand at all. And then out of the blue,
seven tenths faster than anyone lap from George. But, you know, perfectly timed. It was, it's
absolutely brilliant. Yeah. So I guess they were running a load of fuel. I guess they could be doing
all sorts of things. We haven't. Yes. Crikey. There's so many different ways to disguise your
performance these days. But in any case, they didn't show what they had until the final moment
when it was too late for anyone to respond. But Ferrari are a good surprise, aren't they?
Because they're nice sort of in the frame. Bad surprises are really rebel, the issues that
they have. And also, McLaren, McLaren, obviously a massive ball drop. Yes, they're in China. But,
you know, my initial reactions, I was doing some commentary. I was arm chairing. Your arm
chairing. So what was your, you turn on the race, the race starts. What did you think?
I was quite pleasantly surprised with the entertainment factor that we saw with Ferrari
and Mercedes and the Ding Dong that we had in the first sort of couple of laps. So that was
something that we haven't had for a long, long time. So that was something that the whole point
of these rules was to make the racing better. Was it? No, no, no. I don't think the point of the
rules was to make it. Are you saying that that was the main objective? Well, it was one of the
objectives because I thought it was the objective was to get to net zero. So in other words, to make
the, so increase the hybrid factor so that the electrical batteries so that the cars are more
sustainable or more, isn't that the objective? Well, that's part of the idea of trying to make
it better. I know there's been a big push to make it as green as it possibly can,
and it has moved it in that direction. But for me, I always remember the way the rules were done
was to make the racing better. I think that was an important part of it at the same time, to make
the entertainment better as well. What does everybody complain about of a Formula One? Well,
there's not much overtaking going on. Everybody complained when there was DRS. Oh, it's fake
overtaking with DRS. But the overtaking, the racing, it wasn't, it wasn't as much as people
wanted. And that's where the entertainment comes into it. So for me, I think the way the cars,
let's just do the cars, take away the technology, the cars actually work very, very well. They
do seem to be able to... Give me the chassis. The narrow lights are cars. Yeah, the whole package
of the chassis seems to work much better. And as we saw, which we've come to in China, there is a
much better chance of these guys racing in the corners themselves. And I like that side of it
because I think all of us, you included, would be happy. Even if we were having a race together
in 10th position, we would be happy that we'd had a bit of a ding-dong on the track. It doesn't
matter if it is for first or second, because we enjoy the racing aspect as drivers as well. And
I think that has come into it. I mean, they're pretty busy, weren't they? So I reckon I was,
I was watching the race and I was thinking, normally you expect after three or four laps to
the cars to start stringing out and having to kind of find their own space and stuff,
but they were still at it, 12 laps into the race in Australia. And even in China as well,
which is a very different circuit layout. And one of the things I think, on reflection,
one of the things I've noticed about this formula, and yes, there are objections. I understand that
when you look at a car coming up to, was it turned nine in Australia or some of the flat
out corners, they're slowing down before they get there, or they get to the industry, and they're
not barreling in on the last second, hitting the brakes, you know, with 150 meters before the
corner and stuff like that. They're slowing down before they get there, which is freaky. And it's
sort of disappointing. And it's sort of wrong. It's sort of wrong. So there is definitely
some tweaking to do there. So that was a distraction. But one of the possible gains here
is to do with the fast corners, because they're using the long corner to charge the battery,
they're not on full, they're on full throttle, but they're not actually going anywhere. They're
not on the limit. So this is where the Alonso quote about the chef could drive comes in. But
there is a benefit here, which is that the racing means, well, the benefit, the unintended or the
unexpected benefit, I think is this, which is for years, these cars are from along cars,
you have not been able to get close to a car in front in a fast corner. And that means when you
get to the straight, you're too far behind to get past. Yes. Now, because they're not on the limit,
they can stay closer to a car in a long, medium to fast corner. So they're much better positioned
to attack when they get close. I know they've got all the boost buttons and all the rest of it.
But I think that's why the racing was extended in the early 10, 12 laps of a race. And I think
that's a good thing, because when you go to some circuits, they're processional, they used to be
processional, because the cars couldn't get close in the fast corner. Now there's not the issue,
because they're not actually on the limit in the fast corner. No, yeah, I think that was a little
toffee coming out of your mouth. Do you think I'm trying to find,
I'm clutching its straws? I think it's just tried. It's all about the rawness of the driving
experience. Now, we're doing it from a driver's perspective. You realize I'm an ambassador,
don't you? I'm an ambassador as well. You can't talk to me like that. No, you can talk to me like
that. I'm not used to toffee coming out of your mouth. That's very encouraging. That's chocolate,
that's not toffee. No, I know it's not, but it's sort of a form of it. Come on then. It's a bit
technical. Well, the problem is with, from a driver's perspective, it's all about us being tested
and us wanting to push those boundaries of that limit of that car. Is it though, Johnny? Yes,
it is. Make your point. Well, it was, it was. Well, you do turn nine, and I would do two things
about turn nine, because you could see the difference between two different cars, one that
was on overtake mode or boost or whatever it may have been, and the other one was harvest. The
difference in speed was huge. Now, visibly, you'd be able to see that, and especially through
nine and 10 in Australia, it's a wonderful, massively quick left flick on right and accelerate
downward. It still was quick. But yeah, but it's not, it's not right. It's not overtaking around the
outside and stuff. Well, there's your point. Round the outside of turn nine. Come on. Yeah,
it looks good, but it's not the proper test of an overtake. Well, the proper test of the
saw that when we went to China with with Lewis and Charles. Okay, that was proper sort of
will to will racing and them having to decide and place the car to make it work rather than
having the boost that sort of gives you the overtake. But I'm purely talking about the speed.
I want to get wowed by the drivers. I think the people that watch it who are sitting there on
that grandstand at turn nine and 10 want to be wowed by the drivers and wowed by the speed that
those cars go through that corner. Yes, they're still quick. They're nowhere near as quick as they
could be or should be, because that's the test of really getting the very, very best
in a qualifying lap, for example, if it if it's George as it ended up being compared to
something like RV limbo lap, for example, there is always going to be the difference between the
very, very best and the very, very good ones. And it's that was sort of lacking a little bit for
me, especially the high speed, because the high speed makes a difference. And I do one thing about
ice speed. Nigel Mansel, as you remember, told me about about a rouge at Spa, the old, the old
rouge, where he'd get all prepared for qualifying to go down the hill. He's foot to be flat to the
floor. It was just about flat. If you got it, absolutely perfect. Your brain says, whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, this is far. This is too good. This is mad. This is mad. But you have to say,
out of the way, brain, I am keeping my foot through this. That's the challenge. But if you take that
away, then it's either easily flat, because you're just going that much slower. What's the point?
Yeah, but what's the point? They'll be slowing down before they get to a rouge. Yeah. And they'll
be charging the battery all the way up to the other way up. Yeah. But then that's the bit. I sort
of thought, well, we've lost a little bit of the element of what I totally agree that that's that
to me is anathema to to what Formula One should be. Yeah, they should be going hell for leather
right up to the point where they have to break. Yeah. Now, and also the fast corners have to
be a test. I agree with that. So I'm thinking another Nigel Mansell moment. Let's say,
now I can never remember how it's pronounced, but it's the Peraltelda or something.
The Peraltelda in Mexico. In Mexico, round the outside of Gerhard, was it? Yes, it was. I mean,
that wouldn't happen. No. Well, but it sort of did in China. No. I mean, Lewis was going
around the outside in some of the medium speed corners, because some of the quite, it looked
fast on telly. Well, when they had this sort of coming together, not coming together, but when
they were sort of racing together, they weren't under any sort of harvest or anything. No point.
They were just actually under the. That was great. And that was great. So it worked perfectly from
that point of view. Yes. I think there were some massive benefits, but we've got to get back some of
the the ability of the drivers to stay flat all the way to the end of the straight and also to
break each other. Now, here's a quote from Helmut Marco, who is, you know, obviously he's,
I don't know whether he's sitting in his armchair now. He's back in Austria,
watching in a pub somewhere. There were no real overtaking maneuvers in the sense that one driver
was later on the brakes or came out of the corner better. Yeah, I think that's sort of true, isn't
it? But it looked, I mean, there weren't, they were, they were kind of sitting ducks, weren't
they? If they got overtaken into corner, it's because they had to harvest more than the other
guy who's on boost. But then that was part of the, that was part of the intention of the regulations,
to be able to provide this opportunity for drivers to drive automatically using extra power rather
than just DRS. And I thought that provided some entertainment because we, we can't tell when
we're sitting on the side of the track, we're on the side, on the watching TV, we can't tell what
we can see as a car is approaching at speed and there's going to be a pass. That's entertaining
enough in itself for us because there's a change of position. So that, that's significant. And there
has to be an entertainment. I know there's a question about, is it about racing or is it about
entertainment? Well, actually it's both at the end of the day, but we've probably lacked a little bit
of the entertainment. We've had those great battles with Lewis and Max during that year
for the championship. We've seen Vicena and Pras and et cetera, et cetera. You and Michael.
So they, we've always had those moments, but it's trying to create those moments more often.
Then I go, well, if I watch a football match, they're not all fantastic. They're not all five
nil and a brilliant, you know, four, four draw or whatever, in the last second of the game.
It happens. They are very, they are very boring sometime. There's Neil Neil and the game was
absolutely. Well, you can have fantastic. It's a lot of sports are the same. Okay. But the point is,
the point is this, is this sport supposed to be there to satisfy just the driver? So in other
words, if it was down to the drivers, you and me, Johnny, right? When we were racing, what kind of
cars do we want to drive? Because we're talking about driving and we want to, and I'm guessing
that you wanted to drive the McLaren with the V12 engine, you know, the fastest, the Ayrton,
the fastest one, you want the fastest, but also you want that thrill of going berserk in a racing
car, don't you? It was being tested. I think we spoke about this before the season started. It's
about being tested ourselves, but actually driving something that is like, this is, this is out of
this world. But there is the challenge from that point of view. But if you haven't got that ability
to race, which is something I did when I was carting, I thoroughly enjoyed that. And I know
Lewis mentioned about that as well. It was like going back to carting with his, with his racing
hub with Charles. And that's something that is very important from a driver's perspective as well.
Dominating and winning. It's lovely. But it's not really testing you to the level that I think
Formula One should be at. But is this, or with these new regulations, is it a different tool set?
Yes, it is. It's a different skill that is, that is needed for it. Is that a good thing? Because
the driver's got to sort of think out the box a little bit differently. Is that a challenge in
itself? Yes. So it's that sort of balance that we, we, we've got, I think, that can it be fettled?
I know this talk about change, isn't there? And I don't know if that can help. Maybe we can get
a little bit more harvesting and maybe have a little bit more battery power in there. Because I
know when you use the boost button, for example, literally you're overtake, but you'll be done for
the rest of the lap because you haven't got any, any battery power in there because it's, it hasn't
been able to harvest quick enough. So can you, I mean, so are we going to admire a driver who uses
that technically better than someone else? I think we should. That's part of the, the sporting
part of the equation. It's the mental thing, isn't it? It's the mental capacity of the driver who's
has a better ability to absorb everything that's going on and then adapt it to make it
more positive for him. So those are there. Is it the rawest form? No. Have we had the rawest form?
I think when we raced in the 90s, it was pretty flat out the whole way through. You know,
lift and coast, never ever did that. Except when we raced at Le Mans, for example, that was the only
time we did that. To save fuel? Yeah, to save fuel. Was it there in the initial turbo era? Probably.
Because they were sort of always on the edge of running out of fuel. So they,
that was different. But in the 90s, there was none of that. It was literally pushing or so.
There was always a tire part of it where we had to look after it and try and get it through.
That's still there. But that's all part of the whole bubble of what a driver has to do.
Is it about relevance to road car use? I mean, if you go back to the very beginning of Formula
1, it was what the manufacturers, they wanted to race because they wanted to prove their product
was better than other people's. And it literally was, if you had a Bentley and it won them all,
then you're going to, you know, you've proven that that car is reliable. That was the biggest,
the biggest question about, you know, is this car going to be reliable or not? So they raced them
to destruction and it was flat out all the way from the beginning to the end. And then at some point,
they started to bring in regulations either to do with safety or some sort of relevance to
road car use. And maybe you could say, maybe, I mean, they were always talking about safety
belts, for example. Actually, safety belts came in before they came in on race. Or maybe they
didn't. I don't know about the same time safety belts were shown. So Formula 1 was showing itself
to be a good test bed or promoting road safety. We can save your life. If you wear a helmet,
not that anyone should drive around with a helmet on a trip. Yeah. So safety belts and then people
like Frodo would get in there with, you're showing that their brakes are better because people used
to take their cars to the garage and they'd want to know what product to use. And that sort of
so that became a test bed. And people like Ford came in to show that their brand of engine was
better and so forth. So there's always been a connection between and now the manufacturers,
although there's electric vehicles, as we know, the electric vehicle thing seems to have kind of
hit a buffer a bit. And so a lot of the manufacturers, even if they're electric
car manufacturers like BYD in China and stuff are producing hybrids now. So they're not going,
so it was going to be at one time, everyone's going all electric. And now it seems to be
an F1 decided at the beginning of all this, they decided hybrid actually is probably going to
prevail. And so the hybrid push is tied to the interest from manufacturers in Formula 1.
And the FIA have gone, okay, we want to attract whether it's Audi or Ford or wherever,
because they're going to be selling hybrids and they want to be able to show that their technology
is better. So Formula 1 is being used to push this technology, isn't it? Now, if it was just
left to the drivers, you and me or Max Verstappen or whatever, what car would they want to drive?
Just to be a fully combustion loud. They wouldn't care about that. No. So we want,
I mean, I went to go, I went, I remember going to see Branshatch qualifying in the turbo era.
And it was one lap in qualifying with a thousand horsepower and the engine would blow up.
And so I can remember watching Piki going round and we went out through the back of the track at
Branshatch and there was, we knew it was coming because we heard the tannoy saying he's on his
lap, you know, and then we heard this and you just, you were, it still makes my hair stand up on the
back of my neck because you could sense this ridiculously powerful car was going to destroy
its tyres, going to destroy the engine, and possibly the driver. But it was very exciting to
watch this one lap. And then they decided this was not helpful because they were blowing up
engines. Well, it was rocket fuel as well. And it was fuel they were using was, I mean,
there was a big black cloud that came out the back of the car because it went past the Ferrari.
I remember the Ferrari mechanics first turned up with masks and sort of canisters because they
were breathing in this poison effect. And then that got banned as well. Rightly so. Rightly so.
So there was a point at which it was hedonistic, if you like. It was just purely for the extremeness
of it. I mean, if you, I can't remember her name. They said there's a girl who's got the record for
funny cars in America or something in a quarter mile. It's something ridiculous. Like two point
no seconds. Madness. I mean, it's nearly three seconds for a quarter mile. They're doing 300
miles an hour across the line from a standing start. Well, that's awesome. It doesn't, but it's
not per second of enjoyment. I don't know how you measure it. But, but I think, so you, if you go
just for pure performance, I'm not sure that you're going to create the holistic
entertainment on the interest that Formula One has always had. It's always, we've had a new
broom, if you like, coming in Liberty, coming in and saying, okay, there's an entertainment factor
here. And we cannot just watch, you cannot sell a race where somebody shows how absolutely brilliant
their car is or how fast they're going. It's not enough. They need to be competition. Yes.
Wheel to wheel action. Now, the first two races have provided that in abundance.
There's no getting away from it. Absolutely. I mean, isn't it, you know, it, Lewis jumps out of
China and goes, that's the best racing I've had perhaps ever. Kimmy Antonelli, not Reichenan.
Easily done. Kimmy Antonelli has won his first ever race. And he's the youngest Pulsator ever.
It's the start of a new career, a name that may last a very long time in our sport. And he's not
complaining about the formula. And Arvid Lindblad in Australia, he's never raced in Formula One
before. What's he saying about this formula? He thinks it's great to be an F1. Yeah.
And he's an amazing, they're still the ultimate. At the end of the day, they're still the ultimate
cars. And it's just in a different format. And interestingly, Lewis has been rejuvenated.
He did not like those ground effect cars. And lots of teams didn't like those ground effect cars.
They were, I beg your pardon, the Venturi ground effect cars his agent would say. And they looked
awful. I hated, I didn't like them. No, they looked awful. I looked, yes. These cars look better.
So, as you were saying, as far as the chassis goes, big step forward. Yeah. As far as the,
so the, all we're talking about really is this sense that there's something very artificial going
on to make the racing exciting. Yes. Which we don't like. And the drive, a lot of the drivers
don't like. No. Because they think they're playing Mario Supercars. I mean, Carlos Sainz said
something as well. It's not, you know, it's not in the DNA of F1. This is not what we should,
they're not getting the kick. No, they're not getting the kick. From driving. That's, that's,
we're, I would say, I was getting entertained. Well, and then are the fans getting entertained
at the end of the day? I think it's 15. But they are getting some entertainment from it,
rather than a ball fest of nothing happening and just being dominated by one. I think the Chinese,
the fans in China, you could hear them. Yes, you could hear them when something was happening on
exciting. Now, how that came about, whether it was because of some, you know, batteries run out
or not, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter in a way. And I come back to the point,
we're not here just to satisfy the drivers, the drivers. I thought I agree. Sadly, who are the
most important ones that we should be focusing on? It's the fan to me. No, I don't think it's just
one or the other. Well, if it isn't for the fan, but if it isn't for the fan, we don't have for
sport and they don't have their wonderful wage packets that they have. If it isn't for the fan,
now, if you'd have a ball or ball fest of a season or a couple of seasons, people are just going to go,
can't be asked with that. I'll go on our goal and follow another sport. So that entertainment
factor, I think is very important from a fan perspective. But especially now we've got this
younger generation coming on board as well, because I think they have that, they want that
entertainment to be a part of their weekend. Whoever they support in the car itself or the
team they support, there has to be that entertainment. And I think it has aged more towards them
having some entertainment. Yeah. So this is the limit. So everything's bound by limits,
isn't it? It can't just be Mario. It can't just be simply a joke kind of game race.
It has to have something authentic to it. And so Carlos's quote is this,
that this sport is called Formula One, the Formula One that they thought was good for Formula One.
It's not adequate and needs to be changed. He's fairly well, you know, he's a fairly sort of
mature guy, he thinks carefully about what he's saying. He's not, no one wants to slag the sport
off because we got off to a reasonably good start. It just needs tweaking. And the question is what
can they do without reversing too much on this platform that they've nailed themselves to,
which is the 50-50 battery and fuel split. And that's, and so I think some of it,
that must be, it's Formula One, they should be able to change it. Well, I think they just need
to be able to somehow sort of allow them to have more ability on the harvest and to put in more
of the kilojoules into the battery pack. And that would just, so they don't run out as quickly as
they do at the moment. Now, does the boost button work from a racy perspective in some ways? Yes,
because it depletes the battery very, very quickly. And then you get sort of the re- overtakes that
come onto it. Is it too extreme? What does the overtake button, the overtake button, something
we could probably maybe work on to just use that? Well, these are, these are all crutches,
aren't they? So the, so they, what they do is they have a normal, a normal situation is after
290k or something, it starts to reduce the amount you can recharge the battery. Because otherwise,
there won't be enough to go around the whole land. And so if you go beyond that, you're going to have
to rob Peter to pay Paul at some point. And I mean, it is phenomenal, the technology is
phenomenal. When you think about the amount of, they're charging the battery up and then
discharging it per lap. I was, I had to fill my electric car up the other day. And I had to kind
of plug it in. I'd done about 90 miles. I drove up to Silverstone. And so I charged my car up and
it told me that I had added 35 kilowatt hours and I'd gone from about 50% to 80% on my car.
And that cost me 30 quid. So I was trying to do the maths. If they had to stop at a super,
the fast charger, yeah, to fill up their cars, what they'd be spending on electricity, but I
couldn't work it out. So if anyone out there can do the maths for me, that'd be brilliant.
It's just tinkering with that electrification side of it to make it work together for the
better of, one, the driving experience. But secondly, actually, the challenge that the
drivers have to overtake, which then benefits the fans at the same time. So you're right,
I think it's just a little tweak that we need. And it's probably going to be more down to how we
can get that battery pack to be more, have a better ability to sort of store that little bit
more, and then it's going to have a better life in a lap than in a race. I think that's
what we're going to do. And you do talk about the relevance to road cars. The harvesting,
in many respects, doesn't really link to a road car because you never go quick enough to do a proper
harvest to be able to really put any energy back in. No, so the amount you're harvesting,
basically, if you're harvesting whatever is 350 kilowatts or whatever, then you're driving too
fast on the road. It's that time of year again for taxes. We all know the stress of the old way
of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing
your inbox and sending awkward, just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started.
But with TurboTax Expert full service, I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes fully off my plate
and updates me every step of the way, so I don't have to worry. That way, I can get back to the
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This episode is presented by Depop. We all have pieces in our closet that deserve a second life,
that jacket you loved for a season. Someone out there is literally searching for it.
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Generally speaking, I thought it was exciting, possibly more exciting than I thought it was
going to be from my side. Or definitely more so than I thought it was going to be. I didn't know
what to expect. No, I didn't know what to expect. I was pleasantly surprised. But I was a little
bit concerned about cars slowing down on the straight. That's my back bail. Because when you
early laps of the race, cars are very close together and they don't know whether the person
in front of them is going to be suddenly slowing down or not. That's a risk. I don't like it.
I like the starts as well because they're quite unpredictable at the moment. I'm glad you said
that. I like that. I think that's a good part of the race. Well, it always used to be... I mean,
I know it is obviously Colopinto showed his lightning reflex. He's avoiding Lawson there
on the grid in Australia. And Max had a nightmare start in China. But if you look at last year,
they've got the starts down to a T. So the point was when these lights went out, everyone went
together. And that was always part of racing in all the younger formers that we did. I remember
in the 70s and 80s and probably 90s as well. There was always a bit of a difference with drivers,
with the way that they applied the clutch to get the revs right to accelerate. And we've got
that unpredictable side of it back again. I sort of prefer it because I think there is that side.
And also there is this advantage that Ferrari knows. We've got a disparity between one map
mark and another about how they're getting off the line. And that's good. I think it's been great.
I mean, yes, there's an increased risk, but then you have to say the safety
improvements in Formula 1 are so much that maybe you can add a bit of jeopardy in there.
You've got sympathy for the drivers?
If you were to say to me, you're not... I mean, they took away Bridge Corner. Do you remember that?
Indeed. And then I also didn't like when they moved Blanche Montt, when they moved the barriers.
I liked it when the barriers were there. So there were some... I mean,
and the lesbos, they changed those. That's what they were great. There's a lot of corners that
have been neutered already on tracks. And they were very much part of the thrill of driving.
And so we've kind of gone down a safety first route with some of the corners in Formula 1 and
the circuit designs where there's not been great corners to get your teeth into. But
that's for our enjoyment. And the question is how much of an enjoyment do fans get? I think they
used to marvel at the bravery of people like Nigel. I mean, do you remember when
Jack Villeneuve went round the outside of Michael Schumacher in the last corner,
Esterel? Yeah. That was a long, quite fast, increasingly fast, 180 degree, not banked corner.
And he went round the outside of him. And that was a brave move.
On Michael and Micka in Spa. Yeah, when they were kind of up to Zonda, I think it was, and they
both sort of went each side of it. Yeah, but that was on a straight. Yes, it was on a corner.
No, but I'm just saying that was part of the wow factor. The famous Pujon corner at Spa,
they're saying now that'll just be a recharge opportunity. Yeah, sure. And that's a bit of a
shame. Yes. But I mean, in all truth, when we're watching on TV, we won't notice whether they're
going, we can't really see plus or minus a second or two. It's funny you say that.
My wife says they look slow. It's quite, I was quite surprised that she said saw that.
But I think it is just that different difference in speed where then you go, well, that's slow.
Well, you're not going to see as I did with my own eyes and Ayrton Senna going through a bridge
corner with a V12. Sure. And this car is trying to get away from him. And he's trying to keep
the pedal to the metal. Yeah. And he's just manhandling this thing through as it's trying
to chuck him off. Yeah. You know, I think that would be a big loss if we never see that again.
Yeah. So as I said, I think it could be a fine tweak thing that could be done using the technology
that you already have. Yeah. But as it is now, I'm not fully behind it, but I'm sure there is a
way of making it dragging me on board much more because I think it's not far away from being
very, very good. Actually. So it does seem to be that the drivers who are having the worst time
of it competitively are the ones that are most vociferous about complaining. But that's human
nature, isn't it? That's classic. Classic. You're in a good car. Oh, it's brilliant. Yeah. Some of
that's not so good. It's rubbish. So I'm not surprised with those comments. But there's always
been... I don't think they've enjoyed... You know, I think they didn't really enjoy driving the
Venturi cars, the previous regulation cars. No. No. They'd get out. I didn't... In a race,
I didn't know actually how hard they were pushing. And sometimes they'd get out of the race and they
would... And if you talk to them, they'd admit that they were driving to a lap time. Yeah. And
they weren't really on the limit. I mean, seven seconds or something off of the lap time. Yeah.
Ultimate lap pace. But they couldn't go any faster because they'd be rooting the tyres. So
were they even enjoying those cars? No, they didn't say so that loudly last. But if you talk
about tyres and degradation of tyres, that's always been there. It's always been a part of it,
except probably the Bridgestone era with Michael and Ferrari, where it was literally a qualified
lap. Michelin. Because the tyres is Bridgestone. But where the tyres were so good, you could
literally do all that pushing all the way through the race. Well, we had fuel stops.
So basically, the problem with fuel... So the reason we got rid of the fuel is because if you've
only got 40 kilos of fuel on, there's not much difference between that and low fuel. And if
you're going to stop after 25 laps and you're basically going to start... The grid will be
arranged according to the ultimate pace of the cars. Yeah. And then the race would just be a
copy of the qualifying. Yes. And the overtake, if there was an overtake, was done in that pit
stop. It had to be. Yeah. It was never done on the track. No. So it was the ultimate because you
just push, push, push, push, push, push, push, push, push, but there was no racing. So the brief
of the racing was we want you to produce a tyre that degrades. Yes. And because we don't want
this, we don't want to have a race that is exactly the same result as qualifying. We need to have
flex. We need to have a flux in the race. Something needs to be... And it's artificial because
if you go back to the early 60s or even before the war, the races were three hours long.
They were endurance races. And people would come in the pits and lose three laps because
they were changing the diff or something. So that was the unforeseen flexibility in it.
And it wasn't live TV. No, as well. So people would come and go and they'd stand there and
they'd probably go off for a hot dog somewhere and come back and the race is still going on.
And, you know, so now we're under pressure because we've got an audience. We need to keep people
entertained for an hour and a half to two hours watching a race. And if nothing happens in that
then they're going to walk away. I way prefer this than what I remember with Ruth Shuling.
I think this is more entertaining for me. It was much better. It was a different
entertainment. But as I said, it was all the entertainment was sort of in the pit stop itself
with all the fueling. But the overtake on track was very limited amount of that. At least we're
getting some overtaking now, which I think only benefits the sport. It's controversial, but it
was very entertaining when the car caught fire. Thankful I never... Oh, I didn't have that in
and some of the mechanics. Yeah, right. Changing the theme.
I'm now an ambassador. So I'm now doing what ambassadors do, which is tempting people with
them. I'm not going to fight it. I'm going to go for it because it just goes straight on my belly.
So I'm going to go for that one. Right. Standouts for you so far this season, drivers.
Who has... Who's... Who's rocked your... Standout boat. Yeah. Who's the one you've gone?
Well, I was waiting for... In the first... In the first race in Melbourne,
I was waiting for Limblad to do a rookie era. Yeah. He didn't. And he didn't. No.
And I've got to say, I like what he's been saying. I like the way he carries himself. Some of the
things he's been saying. He's not apologetic or anything. Nope. He's not, you know,
fakely sort of humble to be there or anything like that. He's quite clear that, you know,
he's been working towards this and he's earned this place and he's got a rightful
claim on this drive. And he showed what he could do. I thought he was incredibly impressive.
Yeah. And he comes across really well on the TV as well, actually. Yeah. That's, I think,
so really impressed with Limblad. I also had a slight hiccup in China, but that wasn't his
fault, really. Quick story about him. I met him when he was 14 or 15 years old. I think it's
Shennington Cart Club. Yeah. And I was sort of fiddling with my car. I only did the test day,
so I was fiddling with my car. And as I'm rolling it out, he's rolling his out with all his red
bucket on and everything else. And he stopped and he went, are you Johnny Herbert? I'm Arvid Limblad!
But he was that confidence he had at 14, 15 years old, which we're seeing, you know, come
through brilliantly. So yeah, he's got a load of, I've been very impressed with his whole journey
all the way through to Formula now, but have a tough time last year of F2. But it seems to be
more than competent at being able to drive his cars brilliantly. It was really good.
Debutes go. Yeah. I mean, I can't remember one as good as that. I mean, obviously, Olly Bearman's
jumping in Ferrari in Saudi was very, very impressive as well. And he continues to impress.
Yeah, I'm impressed with him as well. And he's on it. He's constant. He's consistent. Yeah. He's
always in the mix. And I've been very impressed with what we've seen when he's last year. Yeah.
And now that Ferrari sort of stepping he did. But I've just been impressed what he's done this
year as well. We're very lucky. We've got some British drivers, especially that are doing very,
very well as well. And Hajar, so far, I've been very impressed with what he's done at the moment.
So I mean, of all the people to be able to cope with the Max Verstappen
juggernaut, he's pretty much held his head up. He's got, okay, he's not, he's not walking all
over him, but he's definitely got his head above, but not his max. So he's been very impressed.
So he's hanging onto his coattails quite, quite impressively. Because we expect people to get
crushed, don't we? Yes. And so far, everybody. Yes. There's no sign of that. So no, no, no, no, no,
no. Lewis. There's a young driver called Lewis Hamilton who's discovered he's, he's still got
some youth left in him. Really, really lovely to see actually. I honestly thought there was that
period where it was just, it wasn't happening for him anymore. And he'd sort of had his peak.
And we said he forgot himself, didn't he? Yeah, I know he went through a lot of,
he really difficulties that way. Sure. He's got very down. Yeah.
Rebuilt himself. Yeah. He's back with a spring in his step. I think it clearly helps if you've
got a sniff. I always said this, you give him a sniff of victory. Sure. And suddenly you'll
see a different guy. Yeah. And it, but he does need to have a car that he can use. And he's
seemed to be reveling in these regulations. Yeah. The way that the down forces and is delivering
the grip, the balance in the car seems to be something he can play with. Yeah. There's a lot
of movement, isn't there? They're not, they're not on rails like they were. No. Well, I think,
I saw a comment where he said he can be more aggressive with it. Yeah. And with the, with
the ground effect once he didn't feel you could, you could do that. I think as soon as you sort of
got to that edge, you sort of fell over that cliff and the thing was just very, very difficult to
drive. And it's, but it's amazing how he struggled with that. He's adapted to, to, to this year's
cars, but Charles was actually more comfortable even with the, with the ground effect car as well.
And he's still there and thereabouts with Lewis at the moment. It's amazing how a particular
car's feeling within the cockpit can make such a difference to the way that the driver responds
within that, within that cockpit and how the performances struggle. If you look at,
because we had quite a few regulation changes in the last 15 years or so,
if you think of blown diffusers, you think of double diffusers, Venturi, you know,
hybrid versus normally aspirated and all those changes. We have seen some drivers
being able to adapt and others not adapt to a change in the regulations. And I think that,
I think that Lewis was, was, what's the word? He was hamstrung. He was high bound or whatever
the expression is. He was stuck with these cars, with the Venturi cars. He couldn't get the thing
to work the way he wanted to. And I do think that there's such a thing as driving style,
shooting certain different types. Yes, definitely. Yes. Yeah. That's a, that's a big thing. And some
drivers are able to adapt to that. And Lewis always thought was one of those, to be honest,
but it's just amazing how last year that was just was not the case. He was struggling big, big time.
So he's adapted brilliantly.
It's that time of year again for taxes. We all know the stress of the old way of filing.
You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox
and sending awkward, just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with
TurboTax Expert full service, I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes fully off my plate and updates
me every step of the way. So I don't have to worry. That way I can get back to the things that
matter to me, like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL off season. So stop chasing
updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing solution with into a TurboTax. The best
part, you can get experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run
or grab a coffee. You'll know your dedicated expert is handling it, looking for every last
deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve.
File with confidence. Visit TurboTax.com only available with TurboTax full service experts.
Real time updates only in iOS mobile app.
This episode is presented by Depop. We all have pieces in our closet that deserve a second life,
that jacket you loved for a season. Someone out there is literally searching for it.
And that's why I love Depop. It's a fashion resell app where your personal taste actually has
value. Selling is quick, simple, and genuinely worth it. You can list an item in just a few
taps on Depop. Just snap a photo and their AI powered listings fill in the details. Plus make
money easily with no selling fees on Depop. No seller fees means what you earn is yours.
Even selling one item is a win. So if you've been thinking about clearing out your closet,
this is your sign. Download the Depop app and list your first item today.
Kimmy and George been very impressed. Obviously both of them. Yes, they got the best car.
Yes, they got the fastest car. Are they going to go to a race and probably lose it? No, only if
there is a mechanical issue or something else. Because purely they're half a second. When they're
clear of the Ferrari, they're probably half a second, eight tenths faster. Probably it's the
Ferrari's own. See, I think that because there's this thing that they have to do, which is that if
there's a differential with the power unit of more than a performance differential of more
2%, then you can apply for upgrades and Ferrari apparently have. So I think Mercedes are trying
desperately hard not to show too much of what they can possibly do. I agree. Why would you?
There's an opportunity later for people to catch up if you've got too much of an advantage.
So I still think that Mercedes were not really sure what they're fully capable of. So you said
it's something that still pops into the lap times and you can see that when the Ferrari's around
them and they're using their boost button, they're able to mix it with them. But as soon as they seem
to get out of the Ferrari reach, that is where the performance goes. Because actually the boost
is not really a very good thing to use because actually you suffer big time within a lap,
because it just takes all the energy out of it and you go half the lap with nothing.
Yeah, it's a bit like a night out, isn't it? It's a bit like, oh, what the hell.
And then you pay the price tomorrow. So it's amazing seeing that there is that big differential
at the moment. And Ferrari are the only ones who are probably close enough to be able to get that gap
closed down, to be honest, because they've got a good race car. McLaren made a little bit of a
step forward. I thought they were making, I thought they were a little bit closer when
they were running in China. And I think there's a lot, because you remember this noise they're
making about Mercedes aren't, the Mercedes running teams were complaining a little bit that Mercedes
were not letting them know exactly what they're doing. So it's how you use it, not what you've
got. So they haven't found it, that's all, it's there, but they haven't found it. So he's even
teasing them and telling them, you've got to look a bit harder. We've given you the power unit,
now you need to find out how to use the deployment and various things like that. So I think
McLaren will be getting there. I don't know whether their ultimate peak is whether it's up with
Mercedes, I don't know, maybe they can threaten Ferrari a bit. But my point being,
Oscar, spare a thought for Oscar, I think someone asked the question, who has ever
started a season but not started it after two races? Two races, yes. Not even Dunno, can't,
yeah. No, I can't think. So year to year race to record. I know that, but yeah, I think it has
to be. So we can't come in the world, does it? We can't come in on the McLaren drive because
they haven't actually done anything yet. No, sure. But George, we should talk about, because I think
he delivered to perfection in Australia and he could have done, but he had a hiccup with the
qualifying which held him up. So I think that he didn't, I wasn't able to close the gap on
Kimmy in the race, but nevertheless, he's been pretty faultless really. Yeah, very much so.
And the wonderful thing for us as Brits, it's good, as I said before, we've got a good bunch of
drivers in the top 10 even. I think there was quite a few of them in the top 10.
What about a bought a letter? Well, just to finish about Kimmy, because Kimmy is going
to come of age as time goes by and he's only going to get stronger and stronger and that's
where George has really got to capitalise as early as he can, I think in this season,
probably over the next couple of years, because Kimmy is only going to get stronger and stronger.
The one issue I still probably have with Kimmy being critical, there are probably more mistakes
that still creep in, but that's something I think you can definitely get rid of and that
comes with what experience? I might be wrong, but I think the only person to have won the
championship this second year was Louis. Well, he did. Jack Villeneuve won it in his second year.
Okay, there's very few of them, but yeah, it's normally you need a couple of, thank you,
Johnny, you're welcome. But there's a couple of, it's usually said that you need three years
of experience. Well, I think the thing is they get so much prep now away from the circuit.
Yes, that's a big difference. That helps a bit, but there's nothing like being
in it actually. And he went through a bit of a self-doubting phase I think last year, Kimmy. So
Toto has been putting the old reassuring arm around him and building him up and I think now
he's won a race. That will be, I think John Noble was saying, you know, don't get big ideas,
he's not going to suddenly turn into, you know, he's not going to crush George because George is
quite hard to beat. And so, but he's in the frame now. He's got that, he's got, if there ever was
any in his mind, but he can do it. He did a great job. He's got one thing I think that he's going
to be very, very powerful. I saw a little video clip of Kimmy last year, I think it was, looking
with his engineer at the computer screen, everything else, and Toto sort of came in
and was sort of talking to him, sort of saying, yeah, okay, just, just, just keep working at it,
just keep working at it. And he sort of gave him a hug and he sort of started to walk away.
Keep that confidence. Then he went back. Yeah. And that's exactly what he said.
Keep confident. Use the confidence. And then he hugged him and everything else.
Yeah. The relationship, I don't know if Toto had hugged me. I don't like, I don't,
eh? Yeah. I mean, imagine if Patrick had hugged me. I like that. I'll ask you the story.
Bless Patrick. That's a different hug. You'd never get a hug.
No, you'd get an elbow or the clip around the back of your ear if it was Patrick.
Nigel used to hug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've got a hug as well,
which is quite, quite cool. But that's going to be quite powerful to him. Yeah.
And it's going to be powerful for Kimmy to use all that energy that Toto's given him,
because I know George is going to see that. Yes. I know that's going to be...
So this is the... One thing he's got to fight through. Yeah.
That is the... I know he's not doing it on purpose, Toto, but of course he has had that
relationship for such a long time and he wants it to work, but... But what is it? Explain this one
so that people listening understand what we're talking about, because Kimmy is Toto's protege,
if you like. He's put his reputation on the line to get this guy in.
He doesn't... Kimmy doesn't want to let him down, but at the same time, he's thankful
to Toto. And Toto's delighted that he's now won a race.
Meanwhile, George has been trying his very best to impress them for now, how many seasons,
and it got to a point last year where they had to re-sign and it went on a bit, didn't it?
You did. So it was never any kind of... It wasn't like Toto was desperate to re-sign George.
It was a little bit of Mexican standoff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I've heard little rumors
again that with Max not being very happy where he is, is he going to be taken by Mercedes,
which means they're going to get rid of George? I think that's... So George is always temporary.
That's awful. Yeah, but that's awful, isn't it? That's awful. I know you've had that experience
yourself. I feel like I'm relating to this a little bit, but it's almost as if you're standing
there going, well, why can't you recognise what I've got? Why is there not the same fuss over
my offering? So George is kind of left... He's got the opportunity now to win a championship.
But that's not going to guarantee him his future at Mercedes.
No, strangely enough, no. No, not at all. Again, all you can do as a driver is do the best possible
job that you can, and hopefully you achieve the goal of winning that world championship.
And if he doesn't continue in that team, be proud of what you've actually just done,
because that was the whole goal in the first place. And it's not helpful. And the story for
Damian for people who don't know, when he was going for the championship in 1996...
Who? You're talking about me? I'm just talking about you, about the story about you.
And now about the story about you. It was Damo. Damo was going for the world championship.
And about midway through the season-ish, something like that, you sort of heard through
a journalist that they weren't going to be keeping you on for the following season.
Yeah, I was sort of like I was provisional. But anyway, I got what I wanted at Williams.
And now I am a Williams ambassador. So 30 years later, it all turned out okay.
Good, good, good, good. So yeah, well, do you want to talk about Williams?
The car's too heavy. They need to fix that and then they can go a bit faster.
Well, there's another car that seems a bit heavy as well, isn't there?
You saw a little shot.
I don't know. I saw something. I didn't have time to do the side for it,
but there was something maybe Red Bull a bit heavy. Red Boy seems a bit...
Yeah, potentially. So we've done drives. Is there anyone else in there that we...
Max Verstappen? Does he need to just shut up and drive? In many respects, yes.
Yeah, because it's always very nice when you're in the best car. It's always a bit of a struggle
when you're not in the best car. He hasn't had a bad career thus far. There are still many more
things that he's going to be able to achieve in Formula One, as in another world championship or
three. But diplomacy is not his thing, is it? He's quite... I mean, well, the thing...
But no, it's good. I'm saying it's good. You'll always get to direct...
You'll get an honest opinion from him. He will say what he really thinks.
Only the trouble he's got now is that it does sound like because he hasn't got the car that
can win. If he moans, then it's about that. It's not about the filming necessarily.
As an advocate for what Formula One, for what the drivers want from Formula One,
then there is going to be... That will be taken on board because what Formula One doesn't want
is for Max to decide, I'm going somewhere else to get my thrills. That would be a vote of no
confidence in Formula One and where it's going. So that goes back to our tinkering. There is a way,
I'm sure, of making it better. I mean, if people ask the question, if it's about sustainability
and net zero, then why not? If you've got sustainable fuels, why not just get rid of the
battery and make it a normally aspirated, pure fuel? We're always hearing... Just to produce
the batteries, not the cleanest thing on earth. Just to mine the lithium and everything else
that goes with it. So it's not the perfect... Well, we know that. It's a combustion engine,
the perfect world and perfect scenario. No, but it does have the right ingredients with the bio
fuel side of it to be more relevant, I suppose. And what you get back, which is something I know
the fans definitely like. You remember in Australia when we always used to do a little bit of talking
and then from behind us, there used to be this F18 or whatever the hell it was, that used to come
over about seems to feel like 50 foot above us. The Hornets. Yes, the Hornets. The fighter jet.
And the noise that thing made. And there was a wow to that. But I think there was always a
wow with that fully combustion V10, V8, whatever it needs to be. And you're right. There is a
argument that why didn't you go that route? Well, this is why I'm coming back to
drag racing or something. If you wanted to just entertain people, petrol heads to come and hear
loud engines and unbridled power and cars on the very limit. If that is what it's about,
then is that the objective? There's another objective with Formula One. There's always
has been another objective, which is to show that they're problem solvers when it comes to
technical things. But the question is, how much does that damage the entertainment?
Yes. Well, that's always going to be the key. And also the mythology of the sport,
which is that these drivers are heroes. These drivers are brave men, gladiators who are taking
on the challenge of risking life and limb. I mean, that was very much part of the story up until
maybe even Imola after the safety changes after they come in. But it's always been a debate.
And there's always been good changes and there has been some bad changes that have come in to
Formula One as well. Well, I suppose the good changes, I think, was when it went from the
original turbos to normally aspirated. I think that was a good change.
Part of wanting to be a Formula One driver is that you get to drive the car. So I was very
lucky because I tested for Williams and I tested the automatic, the active suspension car. But I
also tested with Nigel's three and a half litre V10 FW 14, I think it was, with the big rear tires.
Do you remember those big tires? And they used to do this thing where they'd crease when you
accelerated out of the corner at the last corner at Imola and stuff. They were like drag tires.
They were dragsters. They were chirp. They kind of get that crease and they thump
when you accelerated out of the corner. It was like the rubber was being thrown onto the road
in kind of like, and then it would lose, it would slip and then it would hit it again and you get
this thumping and it was just awesome. I mean, it was brilliant to drive. Insanely powerful,
very light, very good, that well-balanced cars. That was a big thrill. But I'm the one getting
the thrill. I don't know whether the people watching getting the thrill. No. And as far as
racing went, it was difficult to race. Yes, it was. That's what I mean. You needed someone like
Nigel Mansel to go in the outside of everyone the whole time. Yeah, no, sure. Is there a perfect
balance? Not really. I don't think there is a perfect scenario. I heard a commentator saying
something which they probably shouldn't have said, which is, this is like Formula Three.
It was so exciting. In terms of racing, if you go to 125 motorcycles, the 125 or 250s,
because they're so underpowered and because they have to slipstream, they're always going
around in a bunch. It's incredibly exciting. You literally could have 10 bikes going around
the last corner. Now, why is that not the most exciting formula of most of it? Why is it motor
GP is better? Because there's something to do with the extra power, I think. And the technology
that makes us twig that this is exciting. Now, I saw cars, these cars sliding with and putting
the power down. Yes. Whether that's because they got the talk from the electric battery. I don't
know, but it was brilliant to watch. And I'm starting to see that now. And I haven't seen
that for ages. No, sure. And I want to see that actually. I want to see the drivers sort of being
on the ragged, ragged edge. And that's something that I think is it's a challenge for the driver.
And then they have you have the gladiator well factor on the on the in the grandstand as well.
So it's sort of, I think it's not far away from being, you know, the most spectacular, maybe
that we've sort of seen racing wise in a long, long time, because weirdly, I know we're like
motor GP with all its squats and anti wheelies and anti, I think traction control and everything
they've got with it. There are a lot of riders who complain about that. They say it's not the soul
and the essence of what, you know, two wheel racing should be all about. So it's amazing that in all
the different forms of racing, there is always someone or some people that don't like the direction
that it's that it's going. Is it as raw formula one as it used to be? Probably not quite as motor
GP as raw as it used to be. No. But the technology is something I know the teams in formula one,
especially always say we have to keep on pushing the boundaries of that technology.
It shouldn't just stay put at one particular level and we stick with one particular type of car.
Now, this is one aspect that I want to get the bottom of, which is this idea that they have
that the cars are programmed by either GPS or something like that. There's an element of
I think the cars deploying, yeah, and learning the track. So they're actually, the driver is
not on top of that. That's not that's not a choice driver choice. I definitely think that is
something that you don't want to think. I mean, I think people admire the drivers because they
think they're in control. And if they think that this is all pre-programmed, yeah, and that the
computer back at the factory has is controlling the amount of power that the car is delivering
because it knows what is in the track. It's where it did the steering as well. Well, it delivers in
the perfect place. Yeah. And you want the driver to deliver. Yeah. And it's not always going to be
in the perfect place, but you want the driver to be the one that does take control of that
element of traction coming out of a corner or whatever that deployment needs to be. Yeah,
the driver should be a little bit more in control of that road and AI and software. Yes. I think
they're definitely, you're absolutely right because it is definitely there because they always
talk about it learns and it's learning. And one disappointment for this season, obviously losing
two races, two Grand Prix as well, of course. Well, we got to know the fact that the world is,
you know, whatever problems we've got in Formula One are really insignificant compared to what other
problems are out there in the world and it's impacting us. Yeah. Losing two races. And we feel
for the people in the UAE because we like going there. All that region, the whole region. And
yeah, the whole region. So, but it does emphasize one thing. We haven't quite weaned
off oil yet. No, not yet. So, that's a long way off. You is. Long way. But what we got? I'm off to
Japan. I'm going to be here going to Japanese Grand Prix as an ambassador for Williams. So,
I will be keeping a close eye on what's going on. I'll hopefully come back with some insights
and information for our next podcast. Dig, start digging. Dig when you're out there. I will. I'll
be out there with my, I'll wear a deer stalker and get a monocle or something like that and go
and poke a nose around it. Do. We'll bring you back next time. We can have a look. See what you
felt. You know any Japanese? How do we say goodbye to Japanese? You spent 80. You spent
those two years in Japan? Yeah, I know. I was a combatant. No, he was a combatant. Konnichiwa.
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