Is There Any Manual Swap You Shouldn’t Do? — Carmudgeon w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep 211

Hello.

>> Hello.

>> Happy Caragen Day to you.

>> Happy Carmeagen day to you. Today we're

going to be talking about

>> D. All of the above.

>> Yes. [sighs and gasps] So, we're talking

about electric series hybrid bicycles.

>> We're talking about shockingly Sako era

Mercedes-Benzes.

>> Derek drove one here, so we had no

choice but to put in the background.

>> And uh also manual swaps into all manner

of cars. Is there such a thing as a

manual swap that you shouldn't do?

>> That is the question.

>> That is the question which we will seek

to answer

>> on this theund 200 and something episode

of the Carmagin show which is driven by

Hagerty

>> and presented by Jason Kamisa

>> and clapped by Derek Tamcott.

[laughter]

>> [ __ ] Wow.

>> That was historic.

>> You should have done that last week when

we had a live studio audience. They

would have like blood would have

trickled down. That was Jake. [applause]

>> The funny thing is they all sound the

same on on the recording. I think

>> Yeah, I know. But the the audience

proved me right last week where they

were like and I was like that guy that

was actually an A.

>> Yeah.

>> All right.

>> Here we are.

[music]

>> You know what's happening this week?

>> SEMA.

>> Yes. Every year at SEMA, battery tender

debuts new technology.

>> This year,

>> the bobblehead.

>> Is that this year's innovation? Is this

available for purchase?

>> I don't know.

>> How does it perform in in low

temperatures?

>> It's pretty cold in here. It's

performing.

>> So, this year's innovation is a new,

more powerful charge and start unit that

combines a charger, jump starter, and

tire inflator allin one, and smart

lithium batteries.

>> I like smart lithium batteries more than

I like dumb lithium batteries. I knew

you were going to say it, so I just had

to beat you to it. Um,

I mean, I like dumb people.

>> Thank you.

>> Um, which is why I don't like you.

Anyway, SEMA will be at um, sorry,

battery center will be at the SEMA.

Visit them in the north hall booth 11125

and there will be a Hagerty vehicle in

the booth. I don't know what Hagerty

vehicle it is. Not one of mine.

>> It could be an old car, could be a van,

it could be a service vehicle,

>> could be a charge and start. Hey, you

know what I did need this past week? H

>> charge and start. I drove uh jump

started the cab with a char jump

starter. Drove it 12 miles. Everything's

totally fine. Get home, battery is stone

dead. Alternator putting out 33 volts,

>> but only to itself. The rest of the car

wasn't getting any.

>> And the wire is fine. I don't understand

how electromagnetic fields work. Either

way, um, more importantly, get 20% off

of any battery tender products um, at

with the code [email protected].

Um, they are, as Derek said, the

innovator of the charge charge and

start, which I say with

>> Detroit accent,

>> a really bad Detroit accent. Um, which

combines a battery maintainer with um, a

jump starter

>> and a tire inflator,

>> which

you probably need for that thing in the

background.

>> Why?

>> And they're notorious for killing

batteries, aren't they? Really?

>> I've sitting

>> owned two and never now I'm just not

going to start when I have to get it

home.

>> Oh, I'm gonna go turn the lights on just

to kill your battery.

>> Uh,

>> so hold on. This is why you need a

battery tender.

>> I had this one stored for probably 2 or

3 months and it just started and it

wasn't hooked up to a tender

uh or anything during that period. It's

It's actually been okay.

Uh, but yeah. Anyway,

>> that's because it's a queen bee edition.

Sure. That's not what they actually

called it, but

>> I don't know. I didn't know about this

thing. So, if you're listening as

opposed to watching this to your

incredible

Is your thingy beeping?

>> It's beeping because you left the

parking lights on. It's cross

parking lights on purpose. So, his his

control freak car in the background is

to your tremendous surprise a W41 W140

chassis Mercedes S-Class that Dererick

has bought. It is black in a black

studio, which means you can't see it.

Oh, did I not? Does your car not have

soft closed doors?

>> It's not functioning like all W140s. It

has soft closed issues.

>> I love that I just outed you for having

purchased a [ __ ] box with malfunctioning

soft closed door. What is the point of a

luxury car without soft closed door?

What is the point of living without

software?

>> I know it's really tragic.

>> Those are great looking cars still.

>> Yes. from the front

>> despite the nonfunctional soft clothes

>> and the greenhouse that's too tall.

>> Yeah. And [snorts] uh

>> I mean Sako himself said

>> yeah the car is not I I like how it

looks but it was an acquired taste shall

we say.

>> Took 20 years.

>> Yes. Maybe longer. Um it's I it's my

personal favorite generation of S-Class.

>> Is it really?

>> Yeah.

>> Of all of them.

>> Mhm.

>> Not a 126.

>> No.

>> Not a 116. O, I do like the 116 a lot.

>> You mean looks-wise or overall as a

>> Overall as a car, I think the 116 is

underrated. It was pretty like

sophisticated important car. Technically

the first S-Class, as they say, even

though the car before is very clearly

its predecessor.

>> Uh, but to me, I think the 140 is peak

S-Class.

>> It was certainly the last S-Class

designed cost no object.

>> Yes. And I think they really went to

town. Well, but they remember that they

truncated the delivery. God, [laughter]

I there is crack or alcohol or something

in these um in the show mix. They

truncated the um development process.

They had to rush the car out the door

because Lexus was to use a technical

term kicking the [ __ ] out of them with

the LS400.

>> And so this car, the 140 came out in

Germany and was immediately recalled

because they were blowing tires. They

couldn't. There existed no tire in the

world that could deal with that much

mass and that much speed. Um, and so

they were disasters at first. By the

time they came to the US,

>> by they came to the US, I don't think

any of that happened.

>> Yeah. But that's what happens when you

cut a year out of the development cycle.

>> Mhm.

>> Development process, and then you add it

back in before you send the car to the

States.

>> Uh, have you spent a lot of time with

this with these cars?

>> Oh, yeah. I remember the first time I

drove one was after I bought it. Um,

really that's not true. I drove a C a

600 a coupe 600 like 15

>> the first 140 I drove was a 600 coupe

>> and I drove it you know 15 years ago

maybe longer probably longer. I was

probably in high school. So

>> excuse me

>> that's not alcohol. That's a

>> coffee.

So, the first time I drove one, I had

driven lots of 124s and owned lots of

124s and various other Mercedes,

including R129s. And I vividly remember

pulling out the the I bought I met the

the family, the daughter of the original

owner at a police station because it was

a sketchy Craigslist deal. And so, we

met in the parking lot of a police

station

>> and um I bought the car and I was

driving it out of the parking lot. And

when I went over the little transition

between the sidewalk and the street at

the bottom of the driveway, I I audibly

aloud, even though I was inside the car

by myself, I said, "Holy shit." Like

immediately at that moment, I noticed a

huge difference compared to any other

Sako era Mercedes or any other car I had

driven. Yeah,

>> it was it's very very impressive and

singular. And so that's why it's my

favorite S-Class.

>> So this was the a 140 was the first car

I ever took delivery of new. Obviously,

I didn't buy it. This was 93, first year

in the US. 92. 92 was the first year

year.

>> Okay. But this was 1993 then.

>> Mhm.

>> I just met Mike that uh So, hold on.

Excuse me. It must have been 94. It was

July or something of 94. Um and Mike,

who we still have to do the micode. Um

this was a friend of mine who's now

gone, so I can tell all his hor horrible

stories.

>> Um was uh was always brokering cars and

and helping rich people in Palm Beach,

Florida with their cars. And there was

one of his clients was a wonderful man

named Friedrich Vafenmid.

>> And Mr. Vafenmid,

>> where was he from?

>> You might be surprised to learn Germany.

[laughter]

>> Salina, Kansas.

>> Cologne, as it turns out, and anyone who

lives in Germany, if you've ever been to

a Zatun, which is Saturn, which is an

electronics re retailer. Mr. Vagemitt

was the founder of that. It was the

largest electronics retailer in Germany.

Um, rich old [ __ ] Um, but also

a total gentleman. Um, I remember I used

to go and wash cars for him and, you

know, and help broker cars with Mike and

um, and every year he would give me a

swatch for Christmas, which was like a

big deal. Um, he was just he was a sweet

guy and he loved that I spoke German.

Um, but uh, he I don't remember what his

previous sort of luxury daily was cuz he

had six cars, which I thought was like

the most insane number of cars ever.

>> And now you have twice that.

>> Lies only 10. And uh and so Mike had

talked him into a 140 S500 or 500 SCL.

Um would have been an S500 S500 S500.

And so he was like, "Come with me down

to Fort Lauderdale cuz uh he had

brokered the deal and it was a Bob

Schmidt had a silver with blue 129 which

was the first 129 delivered in Florida."

And I remember he was offered $50,000

over what he had paid for it, which was

hundred grand

>> um at the time. That's how you know we

talk about 129s being like a wow moment.

They were genuinely that sought after.

>> And so Mike found him a silver over gray

140, ordered him a silver over gray 140.

And Mike would always do all of the

ordering for all of his clients and all

the um negotiating. And he would just

deliver the car to their the person's

house and it would all be done. And

[snorts] so we I think got a taxi down

to Fort Lauderdale. Um get in this car

at the dealership and they're like,

"Okay, sir. We're just going to give you

like a tour and he's like, "I know more

about this car than you." Takes the keys

and we hop in and the first thing he

does, he pulls a cassette tape out of

his pocket because that's what you do.

and he puts it in and he's like he turns

the volume up all the way while he's

look looking in the mirror, quickly

adjusts his hair, throws it in drive and

floors it out of out of the delivery

lane, so to speak, and [laughter]

gets it like sideways on the way out.

And I always thought that is the best

way to leave a dealership when you've

just bought a $100,000 car. For the

record, I did this in my e-Golf because

I knew you don't have to break the

engine in an electric car. And I thought

I should leave the dealership with

smoking tires.

the the rubber thing, not the podcast

playing. Um, and right as we were

leaving, going over the curb on the way

out, Amber's I'm a believer came on.

Boom. Bump

bump. And to this day, every single time

I hear that the that song. Um, and I

hope we can do a couple notes of it

without getting, hey, we don't monetize

this podcast. We should be able to put a

couple notes of this of this song in. I

hear those the opening note of that song

and I am back doing this huge bounce and

sideways out of the dealership um of

[music] the first new car delivery I

ever took part in. Um [laughter]

it was also the first time I'd ever hit

a speed limiter in the car. Was about a

week later

>> 130

>> 131.

>> Mhm.

>> Um indicated hit it like a freight

train. Yes. Mike was sleeping in the

passenger seat. We were on our way back

from some club in Fort Lauderdale or

something and I was on I9 I95 in Mexico

>> and uh and it hit the limiter so hard

that it woke him up. [laughter]

>> I was like this thing could do 170. It

was pulling so hard. Yeah.

>> Magnificent automobile.

>> They're really uh built to the standard

that Mercedes never built cars to again

since then.

>> Yeah.

>> Because of the competitive pressure from

Lexus. I mean, they misread the rumor.

Were caught off guard by Lexus by, you

know, Lexus brought in a car at $50,000

and this car was $100,000. And from the

perspective of what most consumers care

about, the Lexus was not that inferior

or was maybe even superior in some

respects. And so that Mercedes really

got their ass handed to them by in a

sales in terms of sales.

>> Part of it was timing because the LS400

came out when the 126 was nearing the

end of its life. Correct. So 1989 and

the Lexus, the LS400 absolutely did [ __ ]

all over the 126. it was a much newer

and you know groundup new product. Um I

think overall 140 would [ __ ] on a LS.

>> It depends what you're measuring in

terms of

>> not reliability but

>> Yes. or cost of maintenance.

>> But the stereo is amazing. Amber sounded

so good.

>> Yeah. [laughter] And this would have

been 94. So it would have had the

non-becker head unit would have had the

uh

>> Sony was it?

>> No, it's Alpine.

>> Oh, really? It was Alpine. Either way, I

just the the ride quality was something

I'd never seen before and no one had

ever seen double plane windows.

>> Um I'd never these cars are so wide. Um

and Sako, I think it was Sako, refused

to make the seats any wider. And so

there was a space in between the seat

and the a huge space between the seat

and the center console. And so there's

like a little velour

>> upholstered thing. Yes.

>> Uhholstered catch thing to catch your

well, we didn't have phones. um catcher

coins, packs of cigarettes, and your

secretar's lipstick or whatever it is

what people did in the '90s.

>> Yeah.

>> Um Yeah. [clears throat] Such a

>> It's really over the top, well

engineered.

>> Yeah. Soft excessively.

>> And the early sophisticated car

>> had the little middle of '95. They had

the little uh antenna things that come

out of the fender. This was before park

distance control, before the BB parking.

So that was how you knew so you could

see where the corner the distant corner

of your the back of your car was.

>> Yeah. You look back and you see the

little thing. It has a trunk closing

plinth that automatically extends so you

don't

>> It's vacuum actuated so that it's always

clean.

>> Mhm. Your you don't get your fingers

dirty or leave fingerprints on the trunk

lid.

>> Um trying to I mean it was it had ESP I

think standard. Um or might have been

>> in the six-cylinder cars.

>> Uh yeah. Um fair point. Um but who

[clears throat] who drives a

six-cylinder S-Class? I mean I mean

really.

>> And the funny thing is the six-cylinder

S-Class cost more than the 8-cylinder 7

series.

>> As it should be.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, at that point, look, the 7

series was a hell of a sporty ride by

comparison, but it was

>> very much more sporting than this for

sure. This car does not feel in any

sense sporting, but it's very imperious.

It's the dictator car. Everyone always

calls it the Princess Diana car. It is a

>> Which, by the way, she only died in that

car because she didn't

>> she wasn't wearing a seat belt. Correct.

the only person who survived.

>> That car also had a salvage title.

>> Yeah, it had been wrecked a couple

hundred thousand times. Um, and also it

was a protection 280. I can't believe

they even got that up to a speed

>> that was able to harm anyone.

>> Um, but yeah, you think about the guy in

the death seat who took the brunt of the

impact in terms of the pillar that they

hit survived. Everyone else died and

that's why you wear your seat belt.

Especially like you got to try to, you

know, to die in an S-class,

>> right? Uh, so this one is a 99 last year

S500 grand edition was the only special

edition that was ever made of the W140.

It came with these 18-inch monlock

wheels and the dark wood interior. And

it has the seats that the 600s later on

got different seats from the rest of the

cars except for in Canada where they

also put those in 500s. God, I'm so

sorry. I know all this. Uh, anyway, so

this car has the the champagne colored

seats that were unique to the Grand

Edition. They were all this color,

metallic black with the tan interior

with the dark wood and the 18-in wheels

and a few other like u items that said

grand edition, including a lithograph

painting of the car with where the it's,

you know, going through a puddle or it's

next to a puddle and the reflection in

the puddle is a 1920s Mercedes. Uh, and

then you know, everyone, some people

framed them, some people lost them, but

anyway, my car came with it. So, I'm

pretty excited to have all that. I

bought it from the brother of the

brother. No, sorry. There were three

brothers and each of the brothers owned

this car, but I bought it from the

brother of the original owner. So, it's

was three owners, but they were all the

same. They were all related.

>> So, single family owned until now. You

put some nondescript normal California

license plate on it. You're going to do

you want to get like Grand S license

plate?

>> Well, I actually know the original

owner, it was sold in California. The

original owner had a vanity plate on it,

which was like a abbreviation of his

last name followed by the number one.

And I was thinking about doing that with

followed by the number of two. I guess

>> that's cool.

>> So it's like consistent. So I'm not one

for vanity plates, but

>> No, you could also put a historical

vehicle plate on that. That's the joke.

That car is over 25 years old, which is

terrifying.

>> I think that look I I don't there's no

reason to do it with this car, but for

some other cars. Yeah.

>> Um I would say that the the AMG

monolocks are a little bit inongruous

with the I agree

>> with the car, but the fact that these

came on the car makes it obviously

totally acceptable, but also cool. Yeah,

they I think they look nicer, but they

maybe are, like you say, in congruous.

>> I mean, there's nothing inherently

sporty about the wheels. I think we just

all associate those wheels with like a

500E or, you know, all the C43 AM

>> C43, E55. Yeah. Um, and pre merger

stuff.

>> So, anyway, uh, that's a very cool car.

I did not know the head [ __ ] and charge

edition existed.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I uh I wanted one with a V8, the 5

liter V8. I had an S420 that I just

bought opportunistically from the

original owner and I really enjoyed it

but sold it because it was a 4.2 and it

was beige on beige and I wanted

something that was more

>> black on beige. [laughter]

>> I mean same color.

>> It's it's hard to find 500s. I really

don't care for smoke silver. I just

think the car is so geriatric as is.

>> You don't care for smoke silver overall

because I there are knives in the

[clears throat] room inside and

[laughter] I will use them.

>> I it's not it's not for me. There's no

car that I would ever choose Smoke

Silver for.

>> Excuse me. Did we not go and see the

same car at Monterey Car Week and

declare that the most amazing that the

Gordon Murray uh Special Vehicles S1 was

in basically Smoke Silver and it was

amazing.

>> Yeah.

>> And it would never just repeat after me.

That car would never be any more

beautiful in any other car. I'm kidding.

You don't have to. [laughter]

>> Um

>> uh Yes. Yes. You're a smoke silver

enthusiast. which happened entirely

coincidentally for the reason.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> Seriously, I've never chosen a car

because it had that color.

>> How is your smoke silver Mercedes-Benz?

>> Oh, he's grunting. [groaning]

>> He's got a box.

>> I have a box.

>> Is that your smoked silver

Mercedes-Benz? That color. The box is

the cardboard box is the color of smoked

silver.

>> I just would like to say that so one I

have had this car. I didn't realize

November September of this year was 14

years ago that I bought that car. Um and

I sort of lost track of how long that

is. And in credit to this 190, it has

been, and I say this while knocking on

wood,

>> actively knocking,

>> incredibly

problem free. Um, the one thing that has

really changed since I bought it, I only

drive the car about 1,000 miles a year.

So, it had 78,000 km on it when I bought

it, and I think it's now 94. Um, so you

do the math. I don't know. I, you know,

drive it about 1,000 miles a year. The

only thing that substantively since the

two things that have changed is somebody

sat really hard on the seat and broke a

seat frame spring. Um, which happens on

those cars and I'm still trying to find

another seat frame for it 10 years

later. Um, and the steering went from

being really tight to Well, you've

driven the car. How would you describe

it?

>> Unforgivable.

>> Ruinous.

>> Yes.

>> It had about I don't know 30° of play.

>> Yeah. It's a substantial dead spot in

the steering,

>> which all Mercedes with steering boxes

do eventually, but for whatever reason,

2.316s seem to do really quickly.

>> I have noticed that, too, because I'm I

mean, I have a 264,000 mile W124, and it

has much less steering play than your

>> Well, your 16 valve also had somebody

overtighten the steering box to

compensate for what was also

>> which was also unforgivable. It It was

unpleasant for sure. But yeah, it seems

to be a causeworth thing because my

264,000 mi 124 feels perfectly

acceptable.

>> Some do, some don't. It's bizarre. I've

sort of never figured out, but the 16

valves are all worse. So, this car is

only what 57,000 mi on this car. What? I

can't do that math in my head. Um, and

so the box had just worn out to the

point where it's not even that there's

like resistance in the steering wheel to

play. Well, you turn the wheel and you

know, I I'll put a video on it uh that I

took to demonstrate the before and

after. There is nothing. There is no

resistance. Like my 400,000 mi 6.9 back

in the day had 90° of play and you just

sort of learn to pass through the play,

you know, quickly. But it you get used

to it and you don't even notice it

anymore. But anyone gets in the car and

they they go to crash it. I mean, it's

very disconcerting.

>> There's a company in Germany called RPM

Depot. Um they want they will typically

accept your steering box and then

rebuild it and give it back to you. Um,

and that's what I wanted because I don't

trust

>> You want a matching number steering box?

>> No, I don't really care about that. But

what I wanted was no one to return to me

a steering box that was three turns lock

to lock from the factory and I'll get a

4.2 turn lock to lock slow ratio out of

a 190 diesel or something.

>> So, I talked to this guy and he said,

"Yeah, just send it in and I'll get you

your own box back." And I thought, I

don't know you and I don't trust you

because I'm not a trusting person. So, I

asked him to send me one with a core.

Um, and so now I can safely say he sent

me back a So, I'm losing my original

match matching number steerings steering

box and I don't really care. Um, because

now I know he does good quality work.

The the the experience of driving this

car has been transformed.

>> It is wonderful

>> magic. Um, still have to go get it

aligned, but the and the and the other

thing that I noticed is the manufacturer

date on the box that's in my car is

confirms that it's original to the car,

but it has been moved moved or removed

or taken out or something because there

was some witness marks on some of the

bolts. And so I think what somebody did,

you can't access the adjuster on the top

of the steering box on the Cossworth

cars on in the same way that you can on

all the other 190s

>> because of the exhaust header.

>> The intake manifolds in the way and so

when I tried to adjust it, I pulled the

engine off the mounts and lifted it up

out of the way and it was a nightmare

and I cried and it was a lot of work. I

realize now it would have been much

easier to just drop it down an inch or

two. Um, so I think someone tightened it

before I bought the car and it was all

on its way to wearing out and it just

happened very quickly. Once you tight

the the tighter you make that adjustment

on those boxes, the faster you wear the

rack out

>> or the the box out. So anyway, um, I can

recommend as long as I get my core

charge back when this when this comes

back from Germany and I have no reason

to suspect I won't. This goes out today.

I will get my core charge back and the

Mercedes is fixed. Congratulations.

>> Thank you.

>> I'll let you drive the car again and you

can quit your whining about how

unforgivable my loose box is, so to

speak.

>> Yeah. I mean, mine was also unpleasant,

but in a different way because someone

had adjusted it to excess.

>> Yeah. Uh, and so then it doesn't

self-center, right? You turn left.

>> Yeah. And it keeps it it Yeah. You can

be going around a corner quite a bit of

lateral acceleration and let go of the

steering and it doesn't it stays exactly

where it is, which is also disconcerting

in a different way.

Um, okay. So, we have done the requisite

carmage show saco era Mercedes

conversation,

>> which is what not why we're here today,

>> isn't it? No,

>> no, actually we're and we're here to

talk about a bicycle and a manual. Yeah,

we we have we have many things to

discuss.

>> Okay.

>> So, this week I this is interesting to

should be interesting to car people, but

it's about a bicycle.

>> Did you know

>> that's a big lift?

>> Yeah. to make a bicycle interesting to

car people.

>> When the first real ebike came out,

there was a specialized turbo and a

specialized PR person knew that I that I

also rode bicycles and she was like,

"Hey, come out and ride this thing." I'm

like, "It's a [ __ ] bike." Like, it's

and and I didn't even know it was

electric. And when I found out it was

electric, I'm like, "This is stupid."

Turns out that ebike was my favorite

bicycle I've ever had. I just retired it

because the last part broken. It's not

fully non-functional now. Um, and it was

a prototype, so the production bikes

never So, I got a test bike from them

and I never gave it back [laughter]

because it was that good. And I kept

saying like, "You can have it back, but

please no." And they're like, "Just keep

it." Um, or just when you stop using it,

give it back to us. And now no one's

there from Specialized. So, anyone

listening from Specialized, I know where

it is. I can get it back for you. But,

um, best workouts of my life because

that was not a thro there was no way to

throttle it. There was not a Vespa or a

moped. It measured what you did. uh and

what what torque you put into the crank

and amplified it on one or one of 10

maps. And so you just basically logged

into gravity.config

and you changed gravity from 9.81

meters/s down to whatever you wanted and

you were just immune to the laws of

physics. Amazing bike. Um, and that was

interesting to car people because here

we have an electric vehicle that is just

a bike, but also helps you work out.

Um, the most popular body style of

electric vehicle on the planet is not a

car, it is actually an ebike. And ebikes

are now very common. Uh, you know, I

think we talked about this once before

where like I have no choice now but I

have to go buy an ebike because everyone

on all the trails that I ride or that I

hike on is riding an ebike and I'm going

to get [ __ ] killed going 2 miles an

hour up a big grade and all these kids

are coming up at 30

>> and scaring everyone.

Um, and Riven

uh has a well technically it's not

Rivian. So R.J. Garage, who's the CEO

and founder of Rivian, has a second

company called Also. Um,

>> you're laughing at the name.

>> Yeah, because it's a second company and

it's called Also.

>> That's actually not That's what I

thought. I know. I I can't imagine

that's why they called it that. I just

think it's funny that that's a

byproduct.

>> I thought saying we have a Rivian and

also we have a bike and that's actually

not the case. The reason why is it's it

embodies the Silicon Valley um idea. I

met the guy who named the company um and

he had a very passionate speech about

this and it sounds like good marketing.

I don't I'll let you guys decide but

it's the Silicon Valley mentality of and

also so instead of this or that, it's

this also that um meaning no compromises

built in this bike, right?

>> Um and it is interesting for for many

reasons. It's the the idea behind it is

the bike totally rethought in the world

post pedaling um or post non-electric.

Um and what they've done that no one has

done before as far as I know is make a

series hybrid

electric bike.

So there is absolutely no physical

connection between the pedals and the

wheels.

>> Uh so this is like SBC. It's it's pedal

by wire.

>> You have to bring it back to a Sako era

Mercedes. I guess it's poss uh it is it

is pedal by wire.

>> Um

>> this is how airplanes are flown now.

>> What?

>> Steer by wire but not power by wire.

Right.

>> No, everything is is goes into a a fadec

and it's a a computer that you move the

lever and then the lever tells the

computer what you want and then it moves

actuators that are located. There's just

wires. Yes, there's no cables.

>> But this would be slightly different.

This would be the difference. So that's

steer and brake and you know and flying

by wire. But this is propulsion by wire

which is really this is more like a

Chevy Volt where or a BMW i3 Rex where

the gasoline engine powers a generator

that then powers a motor that powers the

wheels. So in this sense a plane a a

propulsion by wire plane in this sense

would be one where there's a jet engine

spinning a generator that's spinning

that then makes electricity to spin a

fan or prop somewhere else on the plane

which

>> Yeah. Which is how a diesel train

locomotive works.

>> Fair point. But it would be fairly

idiotic on a plane. But um the idea is

really interesting and I immediately

thought, oh efficiency, like this is

stupid. You're going to lose 20% 30% of

what the power you're putting into the

generator with the pedals by the time it

gets to the wheels.

And then I sort of thought about it like

what actually doesn't really matter

because you have a 1 kilowatt hour

battery which is a huge amount of energy

um that you put right into the frame.

It's a beautiful elegant solution. You

take it with you, you charge it. And the

idea here isn't efficiency. It's the

ability to power the bike if you need to

and have it measure what you're doing

and then amplify it. But it provides

some really interesting benefits and I

hadn't thought about this. So the

biggest problem area on bikes and this

bike is by the way meant mo I think

predominantly for commuting but has

multiple top they're called top frames.

So the seat can be removed along with

its stem and the and the tail light and

replaced with other seats. And so you

can have like a traditional slate sport

seat. Yeah, I guess it is.

>> You have traditional sport seat. You can

have like a big banana seat like or you

know like a a beach cruiser seat with a

basket or some sort of you know cargo

carrying [ __ ] behind you. Presumably

there's one for two people, you know. Um

but the idea here is you have one bike

does everything instead of having to

have a mountain bike and then a road

bike and then an ebike commuter bike and

whatever else. Um the pedal by wire. So

the the biggest problem area on a bike,

do you know what? You you bike a lot.

What's the thing that causes you the

most aida?

>> The pedaling.

>> No, in terms of reliability, I should

say like what's the biggest

>> Oh, the drivetrain.

>> It's the derailer and the chain.

>> Um derailers and chains are apparently

the biggest problem area. We know this.

They fall out of adjustment. They'll

skip a gear, which is a pain in the ass

when you're standing up and it throws

you off the pedals. come across like

it'll altogether drop off a sprocket,

>> right? And that, you know, like that

used to happen to me a lot as a kid. You

know, when you did before you had the

the trigger shifters, you had a lever on

like these 10-speed bikes and if you

were in between gears and didn't realize

it, you put a lot of torque and it would

jump off and that would happen as you're

standing up going up a hill. You would

get a nut sack full of bar that really

hurt because you'd fly off the pedals.

Yeah.

>> Um, so if you decouple what you're

pedaling, what the pedals are doing with

what the motor is doing, you have an

infinite choice of gear ratios,

so long as obviously the motor generator

that you're attached to can apply enough

load to the pedals to stop you from

turning. That means you never have to

deal with a derailer, you never have to

deal with a chain, and you have an

infinite source of gear ratios. Mhm.

>> And it can and is programmed to be

either a CVT or some sort of automatic

that lets you choose one cadence and

keep pedaling at that one cadence and

just adjust your load. Um or it can have

fixed ratios. And obviously you want a

fixed ratio if you're like mountain

biking and you don't want a surprise of

like all of a sudden it's hard to hard

to turn. Um and I thought okay well

that's some sort of benefit. And but

wait, there's more is now it can do

things like when you come to a stop at a

stoplight. And so again, commuter bike,

one of the things that people always

have to do is kick the uh the pedals

backwards to get in position for that

pole position start when the lights on

screen again so that you know the

>> it has a button on the turn signal

stalks because it has turn signals.

>> Uh that will automatically move the

pedals back either to the left or right

to get you ready to go, which I think is

pretty cool. Um, and this idea I think

is kind of genius that if you're

decoupling all of this, it doesn't

really matter how much power you can

generate.

>> But you have a motor that is attached to

a rubber belt to the rear wheels and

that's it. No derailer, no multiple gear

ratios. Um,

>> it's kind of like a scooter

>> in that

>> in the sense that there's no pedaling,

but you're still requesting torque in

various ways. Well, yes, except that I

don't think this bike will ever let will

ever move without you pedaling. So, the

idea there is, you know, you have

different levels of assist. Um,

different maps, I guess, but it will

always multiply what you're doing. There

is a walk behind or walk mode, they

said. So, if you want to walk it up a

flight of stairs or anything because I'm

sure it weighs a lot. Um, you can just

use the throttle to there's like a

little throttle control to help it go up

the stairs. Some interesting things that

I've not seen in ebikes before. Um,

[clears throat] but we now have a series

hybrid electric bicycle,

>> which is

>> Yes. This is like uh Yeah, in a in a

train you'd call it diesel electric.

>> Yeah. So, this is human electric.

>> Yeah.

>> Or leg electric or whatever you want to

call it. Um, and I said, of course, I'm

immediately failure mode, right? I'm

like total pessimist. Like, so what

happens when the battery is dead?

>> Like, well, we have an exercise mode.

And I'm like, okay. Exercise mode is you

want to use as much power. you want to

make a miserable workout.

>> Possible.

>> So, no problem. It just takes whatever

you're generating and puts 60% of the

battery and 40% of the rear wheels.

Like, that's brutal. That's brutal.

That's like double.

>> You become a uh you become like a

hamster wheel that's hooked up to an

power generator,

>> right? Um, and then there's an hill mode

which I found was really interesting is

it it know has three axis acceler

accelerometer so it knows exactly what

pitch and it knows exactly where it is

in space obviously. Um, and so it will

level the hills up and down. So you're

pedaling it knows exactly how much

assist to add at the rear wheel to

>> Oh. So is it going to regen when you go

downhill so that you have to exercise?

Uh well, not so that you have to

exercise. You could if this is if you

put it in hill mode, it will emulate on

the ground. So you'll still

>> emulate Yeah. level [snorts] ground, but

it'll just be charging the battery.

>> Charging the battery. Uh it also has a

regenerative braking obviously, although

I don't think you use it all that much.

You know, I don't typically use my

brakes all that much. Um on bikes

usually I'm looking ahead far enough and

I lift off and you slow down pretty

quickly like on a boat. Um but

definitely use my brakes on hills in San

Francisco or in the Bay Area. Um, so why

not regen all that?

>> I loved my my specialized which also had

regen but not much. Um, this uh they

also thinks though that the regen will

cover 90% of all braking applications

>> and presumably the other one the other

10% is what I do is like slide to rear

brake lock up slide to a stop at every

light to [ __ ] with the other bikers. So

we have now gotten more Jason talking

about bicycle time on the carent show

than motorcycles.

>> Yeah, I don't do motorcycles. They're

dangerous. This thing just 28 miles an

hour. You're fine.

>> All right.

>> I don't motorcycle. I wish I did, but I

I I don't I wish I did if I knew I

wasn't going to die on one.

>> Um but I would totally I'm looking

forward to riding this. They had a

little riding demo, but I had schedule

conflict, so I had to leave. Um but I I

think that's neat.

>> Yeah.

>> And in a world of everyone's getting

lazier, like this is a way to continue

to get exercise, but also choose your

exercise appropriately. Like I'm on my

way to the office. I don't want to be a

sweaty mess when I get there. a lot of

boost. I'm on my way home from the

office and there's a shower waiting for

me when I get home. Make it a miserable

[ __ ] workout. It's beautiful out. I

want to take it for a long time. Slow me

down. Charge the [ __ ] out of the

battery. I think there's there's a lot

of benefits I can have.

>> I just want ABS on my next on my next

bike. I don't kidding.

>> I mean, it just arrived on motorcycles

as standard equipment in the last 10

years.

>> Just like they just got fuel injection

on motorcycles.

>> They could do it. I mean, the rear brake

is blended on this bike. So, it is regen

first and then uh so it could absolutely

do ABS, but I mean I genuinely do like

to [ __ ] with people red lights. So, you

got all you're one of these people who

you have a road bike and I'm sure you

have your little outfits and your little

helmet and like the whole I don't do

that [ __ ] I ride a mountain bike on the

street because I'm fat and I need

exercise when I'm biking. I don't need

to travel great distances. So, it's a

big fat heavy um comfortable sort of

mountain street hybrid that maximizes my

workout. And so, when I see all these

people who are taking life very

seriously, there's nothing I like better

than to come up at like 22 miles an hour

um sideways rear locked up and just

right cut right across them and stop

right at the line at a light. Sup guys,

[laughter]

just everyone looks at me like I'm

crazy. Um because [clears throat] I'm a

child.

>> Yes.

>> So, so I don't want ABS.

>> Okay. No ABS for you.

>> ABS for me. Um,

>> however, uh, this is a segue. We can

combine the things that we've discussed

here if we try into talking about manual

transmissions because this also bike has

a manual transmission mode and simulated

from a CVT.

>> Mhm.

>> How's that for transmission? Did that

work?

>> It was pretty feeble.

>> You want to try better? Can you do

better?

>> Um,

what are we where are we trying to go?

We're trying to talk about manual

transmissions specifically in the

context of uh

>> manual swapping.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, we have a mutual friend who's

interested in buying He wants one of

these. He wants a 140

>> coupe technically

>> coupe V12 and to manual swap it.

>> He also wants to manual swap his 500E

144. He also wants to manual swap his

SL. It was the red SL in the

>> Revelations

>> Revelations episode. He wants to manual

swap all the things.

>> Okay. and he also just bought a CLS 63

AMG that he would also manual swap.

>> Okay, so just it's so we're talking

about Mercedes getting manual swaps,

>> which leads the question. So right now

my whole feed is consumed. That's not

true. I often see people are manual

swapping a lot of things these days.

They're automatic swapping a lot of

stuff. I see like 8HP ZF automatic swaps

into older cars.

>> Mhm. But really, I think the thing to do

at the moment is to take a car that was

never available with a manual and swap a

manual in it.

>> Um, we've driven some Matt Quick swapped

cars,

>> um, including a a 126.

>> We have.

>> Didn't you drive that 126 with the 113

in it?

>> Oh, that one was an automatic.

>> That's also true. Um, I did drive

>> He made one.

>> He made one. I drive a P I drove a POT

with a 113 in it. that was a man swap

that he made that had no seat belts or

brakes. Um but he was in the middle of

that. Nothing against him. He did that.

But

>> CK63 Black Series,

>> that's the one,

>> right? Um and then I drove I we spoke

about it briefly. Uh I drove a C63 AMG

Black Series with manual swap and my

proclamation was it fixed everything

wrong with this car

>> much like the CLK 63 Black Series.

>> Right. So my question is, have you

driven what other cars that have manual

swapped? A master Martin that you just

told me about. And is there such a thing

as a car that is worse for it?

>> It depends what the transmission was

that maybe it doesn't. It depends how

bad the manual is and how bad the

transmission that it had that was two

pedals that came out of it. So the other

car last year we sold a 360 challenge

that had been manual swapped. That's a

particularly compelling uh one because

those cars originally came only as F1s.

So the the Challenge Tradal is the hot

rod version of the 360. The 360 regular

car was available in with both F1 or

stick. The Challenge Tradal, the hot one

was only available with the F1. Uh so

that car manual swapped was absolutely

sensational. You know, I routinely and

will happily take every opportunity to

[ __ ] on 360s and 355s and 430s.

>> Therefore, all for RV8s. Yeah. All the

modern ones that are really going crazy

right now. Those things have gotten so

expensive in the last six months by the

way. Yeah. Like asinine,

>> challenge or all like

>> all those any of the hot Ferraris

>> spales and

>> spales scutteras challengees

uh GTO's uh TDFs. They're all going

absolutely wacko

>> and they're all

>> and those are all two pedal cars.

>> None of them were available with sticks.

Anyway, the manual swap 360 CS was

sensational to me. It was like very it

was very close to being I don't know I

want to call it like F40 like uh in

terms of my driving enjoyment and and

how much I liked the car which is so

surprising to me because I was so under

I'm so underwhelmed by normal 360s. Uh

so that

>> but are you underwhelmed by normal 360

CS's?

>> No, but the transmission annoys me.

>> Okay. Anyway, so I I I adore that car.

It it was the Ferrari that I always

wanted every sort of modern fuel

injected V8 Ferrari to be. Uh so that

was a sensation. Uh I did recently drive

a Vanquish Aston uh the first

generation. So this is like 02 03 to05.

Uh that was manual swapped by the

factory. The factory has offered this

swap for years, probably at least a

decade at this point. But those cars

were originally all two pedal cars with

a very dim-witted

um transmission. And this car was is

still with its original owner and it has

3,000 miles on it. He bought it new and

just didn't drive it because the

transmission annoyed him so much. But he

liked the car and the motor and the way

it looks enough that he kept it all

these years despite the fact that the

driving experience really annoyed him.

Uh and so I drove it as a manual and it

was marketkedly improved. Uh, I would

say it was not as seamlessly brilliant

as the CLK for a couple of reasons. One

was the the the footwell of that car was

never designed to be a manual. And so

the location of the clutch pedal is

like, oh, it's very distantly over here

in a place that I was not expecting to

find it. Uh, and so the ergonomics were

a little peculiar. And I guess most of

the complaints I have are ergonomic. One

was the the pedal cluster. And I none of

these things prevent you from enjoying

the car or finding it to be superior to

the original transmission, but uh it was

a little bit weird at first. And the

other thing is the shifter location is

ever so slightly depending on your

configuration a little farther back than

you'd like. And so it's a little bit

like

>> towards the back of the car.

>> Yes.

>> And so it was like a it didn't feel like

a very natural organic like place to

look for the shifter. Like the CLK had

neither of those issues because the car

was engineered to be a manual from the

outset. And also maybe because it was

designed by Mercedes-Benz instead of

>> bunch of drunks in a shed. Yeah.

>> Uh and so the car was absolutely an

improvement and it works well. Uh but it

was you know not without ergonomic

foibless but it's I mean it's certainly

like if you have one of these cars I I

said the first thing I think I said when

I got out of the car is every single one

of these cars should be manual swapped.

>> So it was a market improvement. All of

the cars that I've driven that have been

swapped

checking. Yep. Every car that I've

driven that has that has been swapped

that like especially one of these all of

these cars are cars that didn't

originally come as manuals uh have been

marketkedly improved by being manual

swapped. Oh, another thing I've driven

was another Matt Quick car which is a

C43 wagon that was manual swapped. And

he also put the 54 in it, the E55

engine. So it's 350 naturally aspirated

horsepower instead of 302 with a

six-speed manual

>> and 100 pound feet of torque more or

something. Some enormous difference

between those engines. It certainly has

no shortage of torque. Uh, and that's

the same transmission uh that was you

that he used in the CLK63 Black Series

swap as well. So, it was that was uh the

car was slammed which I didn't you know

is not to my liking, but the power train

and the amount of thrust I mean the

thing seemed overpowered in a amusing

way in a good way. There are there are

certain engines that you never get to

chance to interact with because they're

not manuals. And remember, and you know,

look, I'm a I'm a manual snob. I don't

own any automatics. I don't want

basically any cars with an automatic.

Um, but but the one thing that's

important to remember is when if I pull

out my own personal preferences, you are

when you drive a like a

computer-controlled ma modern automatic

car, you do not have a throttle pedal.

You have a torque request pedal. And

this is you're requesting a certain

amount of torque at the at the at the

back axle and it is up to the computer

to decide how to get there. And that's a

combination of things like variable

valve timing, if you have a variable

intake length, runner length, stuff like

that, uh ignition timing, cam timing,

all of these things, mixing, right?

Pre-boosting, all of that. And then gear

selection and torque converter, open,

close status, and all these other things

that go into it. Um, and what you don't

know often is what these engines really

feel like to interact with. And so if

you drive like an Audi R8 uh with a

single clutch automated manual or the

one year that they made a dual dual

clutch, you

>> talking about the first generation 20

Yeah, this would be 2013

>> whatever. Yeah. 201

either way it doesn't matter. They you

know you're the first gen car. You don't

what you don't realize is how incredibly

different that engine is to interact in

that car with say an RS4 which is an

automatic. Uh and that's manual

>> uh which is a manual also.

>> I mean you could get that engine as a

manual in the R8 also.

>> Yes. But you wouldn't know unless you

drove the R8 manual and the 156 which is

that 6.2 L V8 motor uh from Mercedes. I

had no idea how how how quick the

throttle response is the wrong term.

[ __ ] lightning fast. Feels like

independent throttle body. Unbelievable

throttle response. Never noticed it

until I drove. You can notice it. I

guess you can lock the car in gear and

you hit the throttle, but you don't need

to in automatic. That's not what they

do.

>> Um that is the biggest shame of driving

a automatic is you don't ever get to

directly interact with the engine. And

that 156

>> was amazing.

>> Amazing in that regard. Um and so and

both in both of the swapped cars that I

drove, it's just perfectly natural.

perfectly linear um relationship between

throttle travel, the pedal travel and

output. Unbelievable.

>> Yeah, I think it's one of the greatest

internal combustion engines

ever. Maybe

>> I wouldn't have said that until I drove

the manual swap car. I mean, I like that

engine a lot, but I wouldn't have said

one of the best.

>> Um but we were missing we were missing

that interaction.

>> Uh have you ever driven an F430 swapped

to a manual?

>> No. I've driven factory manuals, but

never a swapped one.

>> Okay. How Okay. So, you've driven a

factory F430. How was it?

>> I didn't care for it that much. Uh

there's this problem and this is the

thing that I really liked about the 360

and it seems variable car to car but

what a lot of these Ferraris have is a

lot like a lot of stiction and

reluctance to to change gears and there

isn't this sort of like slick um

riflebolt action that people always talk

about being pleasurable. And for

whatever reason, the swapped 360 I drove

had that character. And it's not a

characteristic I had experienced in a

six-speed Ferrari to my recollection.

And it's that that is a a attribute that

I find frustrating and annoying because

a it feels like you're hurting the car.

And b it's difficult to get the timing

right to get the revs where you want to

be when the gear finally selects.

>> This is a swapped regular 360 you're

talking about.

>> No, it was a factory 430

>> stick. Stick. Okay. Um, interesting.

Okay. So, the only 430 swapped car that

I've ever driven was the MA2.

>> I did drive that one. Yes.

>> Did you? Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> And what did you think?

>> I remember like wrestling a little bit.

Like it was difficult to It wasn't

intuitive and it wasn't like natural

feeling to get the thing to do what it

was supposed to do. This is always a

risk with swapped cars because the OEM

parts to do the swapped cars no longer

exist and there's various people making

components or kits to to swap them to

manual. And uh I think that you not all

are created equal. And so I think if

it's been done sort of or if it hasn't

had all the bugs ironed out because I

remember that you know when I would

interact with these other swaps cars

some they would some of them would feel

quite different from others and it would

be a matter of you know the F1 gearbox

is going to be hard on the synchros when

it's just hydraulically it's a dumb

actuator that just selects a gear

>> slams it in.

>> Yeah. And so you can wear out the

gearbox. And I think that if you're

going to do a swap of a car that was a

single clutch with hydraulic actuators,

uh then you it might be worth you can

try it and see how you how the gearbox

ends up and whether it's worn out. But

there have definitely been ones that

have been swapped where you get it and

you're like this gearbox has been worn

out by the hydraulic actuators and the

computers that were doing the gear

changes in the past and we should do

synchros. Uh you know take the gearbox

apart and do synchros. So if you're in

there already and you have the whole

thing apart, it's maybe a good idea to

do synchros and like make sure that none

of the forks are bent by the act have

been bent or anything like that. Uh

>> yeah, because a computer wouldn't know,

doesn't care about feel.

>> Yeah, exactly. So that's definitely a

risk. And you know, people are 3D

printing things and either scanning the

OEM parts and 3D printing, which would

be an ideal outcome. Other people are

making or fabricating things that, you

know, don't work as well as, you know,

whatever. And there's, you know, cables

that need to be set up and adjusted.

It's not, you know, a and this is the

Ferrari way, right? Because the the

Ferrar in the Ferrari and BMW land, you

know, when you're taking off the thing

that does the automated gear changing

and replacing it with a lever that the

human controls, whereas in the Mercedes,

you're taking out the entire automatic

transmission and putting in a manual

transmission with the OEM shifter

>> and all that.

>> That's a really good point that there

are two different ways of doing this.

One is you're replacing the transmission

with a manual transmission. the other

one you're replacing a transmission or

you're replacing the actuators and

keeping the transmission as it was.

>> Yes. And it just depends on what the car

is and what kind of transmission whether

it was a single clutch, you know, F1

type gearbox or SMG or whether it was a

slush box,

>> right? And so the reason I brought the

that MAT new Stratos up is because that

swap was not done by MAT. So nothing

against MAT who built the Stratos, but

they bought that car having already been

manual swapped. And I'm not sure that

the owner of the car knew that or

anything was disclo disclosed. And the

swap itself wasn't perfect in that the

the

there were some errors that would pop up

occasionally on the on the screen, but

also the linkage just wasn't up to

typical Ferrari standards, which as you

just said is not always the best, but is

you know, this this one

>> variable car to car,

>> but the big difference was that engine

had no flywheel.

>> Mhm. And that was what I ultimately came

to like as a challenge, but it was real

work to get that car to shift smoothly

because the second you came off the

throttle, revs would drop from 4,000 to

idle in a split second.

>> Um, and so what you'd have to do is give

gas in between shifts, even on

>> like an old car when you're double

clutching.

>> So, I do this also, and I've been called

out on some some some comments on the

Revelations videos when I'm going up the

hill. I'll go from third to fourth gear

in the drive sequence at the end and

you'll hear w and that's because I'm

double clutching on the way up on my

car. I don't want to wear anything. I

want to be very gentle on everything.

You tend to be very very gentle on

transmissions also and I think more so

than me than me. Um and that's just a

technique. I'm used to doing that. So I

had no problem doing it in that stratos

but that car was a [ __ ] is the wrong

word but it was it took a lot of

concentration.

>> Yeah. a little intrigent.

>> And so I was speaking to a collector who

has a 599 599 manual, one of the very

few that Ferrari made.

>> Yeah. I think 20 or so came to the US

factory.

>> Um and I was speaking to the owner of

that car about the Stratus and he was

like, I won't drive my 599 because of

that.

>> Like it just annoys him too much. It's

it takes away too much from the

experience.

>> Stalled it. It was easy to stall. Like

every time, you know, he's backing out

of the driveway, he stalled it three

times because there's just no flywheel.

And so, you know, you reach a critical

low RPM and off. Um, and just you get

you try to blip the throttle or to get a

little bit of revs. Let's say you

want,200 to just sort of back up. And

your choice is a flare to 3500 or a

stall and it can be a pain in the ass.

>> This is what people complain about when

driving Carrera GTS. Carrera GTS have

this reputation for being like sort of

difficult and there's just if you use

the right technique, it's not that hard.

Although I will say that hill starts in

those cars are uncomfortable in San

Francisco.

>> Okay. So, the one that I did drive, um,

>> you drove on level ground.

>> I started it on a couple hills and I did

a pretty quick emergency. So, the owner

of that car, um, was in the car with me

and he was very, um, you know,

>> anxious.

>> Anxious is a word. Um, also knew

everything about everything without

knowing anything about anything. So, he

was one of these people who like owns

some amazing cars but doesn't quite know

how they work. and I don't think was a

particularly great, not great is the

wrong word, wasn't a particularly

performant driver, right? So, we're not

going to go keep up with you on a track

day that way. Um, and he was like, you

cannot get this car started. If you

touch the throttle, it will you'll stall

it. And the the sort of conventional

wisdom on a Carer GT is if you touch the

throttle, it disables the idle circuit,

but the idle circuit is the computer

watching revs and is strong enough and

has enough play in it to keep the car

from stalling. So, just bring the clutch

out, get to the engagement point, allow

it to slowly engage with the computer

managing revs, and you can hear it

straining and doing, and then once the

clutch is engaged, do your thing. I

suspect that doesn't work on a big big

hill in San Francisco, right? It's just

not going to have enough uh bandwidth in

its ability to open the throttle enough

or quickly enough or the engine won't

have enough torque to actually get

moving without a little bit of rev

assistance.

I look, it's his car. I was, you know, I

was on video. I'm like, I'm not going to

stall this thing and I'm not going to do

anything. So, I did what he told me to

do. And then it came a point where I had

to make a a a three-point turn on this

one straightaway and I had to do it very

quickly because if anyone was coming the

other way and I had been able to see

around both corners in both directions,

so I knew no one was there so long as I

pulled this off quickly. came to a stop

and did the sort of

my move that I came up with many many

years ago when I had a Kevlar racing

clutch on one of my cars with no

flywheel which is blips blips help

everything and I just came to a very

quick stop threw it in reverse and I

made a three-point turn like I was in a

Civic was nothing and he was just how

the [ __ ] did you do that and I'm like

you just have to work around it and you

have to understand the physics of the

fact that you don't have a large

flywheel helping

That was, I would say, not a challenge,

but it was something you definitely had

to work around. But the Carrera GT,

though I'm not personally a huge fan of

the way it looks or I don't and I don't

want one, was one of the most

magnificent manual transmission cars

I've ever driven. The clutch, shifter,

throttle calibration once you're was

under once you were underway was

perfect.

>> Mhm.

>> Perfect. it bested. It's one of the top

five best bested possibly only by the

911 ST the current one which you've not

driven yet, right?

>> Uh I have driven it up and down the road

up been into six gear in it. I've never

driven it in anger but I've just driven

it around.

>> Yeah. And what do you what say the

>> I' reminded me a lot of the GT3.

[laughter]

>> Really?

>> Yeah. I mean, the GT3 is near perfect.

But the ST But the ST is a double plate

clutch that's this big with no flywheel.

So, it's it's benign.

>> It's very benign.

>> Absolutely. I watched journalist after

journalist stall that car after stall

that car after stall that car after

stall because people who are used to

computers doing all the work for you.

You don't you drive old [ __ ] box. Sorry.

You drive carbured, cranky old cars that

don't want to idle, don't want to start,

don't want to move, will not accept

throttle. I mean, talking here about

your Lamborghini. Um, you can drive

around anything. People who have only

dealt with computer controlled stuff

don't know how to. I found that to be

>> Yeah,

>> I think the best car I've ever driven in

that in that regard.

>> So, um, but the the Stratos was a pain

in the ass. I would like to drive a

manual swapped V12 599 or one of the

factory because I don't think the

factory did anything differently. Um,

but throttle mapping for an automatic is

always going to be different than

throttle mapping for a manual. I mean

there are just things changing.

>> Yeah. And so when you swap a car, the

question is did the is the calibration

that they chose for the automatic does

it work when you are trying to use it

with a manual.

>> Yeah. And that's what I can't believe

about the about the

right. Unless there's unless you know

Matt and uh god I'm I feel embarrassed

that I can't remember the other guy um

who whose C63 I drove. Um, unless

there's like a check box that says

linear throttle, you know, like your

check your pull down menu says

autotragic or it says, you know, manual

linear, they're perfect.

>> They're great. They're beautiful.

They're wonderful.

>> Yeah. Even with a pretty aggressive

clutch because, you know, that car has a

fair amount of power and torque.

>> Does.

>> No.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean he spent a bunch of

time cuz he put in some initially some

aggressive clutch that was very

nonlinear and felt race cary and that

was annoying. And then he found one that

had a similar sort of loading ability

but was much more benign to use but

still had the, you know, was aggressive

enough to withstand the torque that that

car produces.

>> 6.208

cc's of 6,28 cc's, right? 608 whatever.

Um, big [clears throat] motor.

>> Yeah. And but still perfectly pleasant

clutch.

>> Yeah. I don't to answer that question to

answer my question. I don't think I've

ever driven anything with a manual that

was worse than the automatic. That can't

be

>> That was swapped.

>> That was swapped. I've certainly driven

cars that I prefer with the automatic,

which is really weird. And I hate to

even say this, but Golf R, for example,

last year,

>> you said this also about the G uh 80 M3

>> M3 works. I wouldn't buy it with an

automatic because I don't want an

automatic. But ultimately that that S58

engine which is an absolute monster and

is the sort of 2JZ of our era or this

era um works. So this era, not our era.

>> Yours is the 1920s. Mine was clearly the

'9s. Um 80s, whatever. Um that engine is

amazing when you couple it to an

automatic and is annoying. Yeah.

Frankly, with with a manual

>> uh Lamborghinis, have you driven any of

the swapped Lamborghinis? I don't think

I have, but I have been seeing a number

of Mercelos that are swapped now.

>> I drove a factory one

>> and I will tell you I have zero interest

in a Mercilago except for the the manual

one that I drove and that one blew my

mind.

>> What a [ __ ] gear change. What a great

I mean, what just a great experience

that we drove for that uh was one of the

cars that we market when I was bull

market. I was sick. I was so [ __ ] I

had like it was either COVID or the

bubonic plague or something. It was 103

degree fever filming. Didn't care. Loved

it. Loved it. It was I remember that and

trying to keep a Suzuki cappuccino on a

back road when I was basically

hallucinating. So sick. Um but yeah, no,

that that Mercielago manual shocked me

because I wouldn't have thought

Lamborghini was capable of that. And

I've also driven I showed up once to buy

a Gallardo. I I don't know if you

remember this. Um I don't think you were

there, but there was a

>> That's probably why I don't remember it.

>> Yeah. Well, yeah, but I I me tell I

remember telling you about it, but um it

was a silver Gallardo and I thought not

really the color I would choose, but it

was a manual. It was an early car, so it

was that that sweet even fire V8 uh V10.

Um and I drove it and I hated it. Really

dead steering, horrible ride quality,

but like I want to say like a 58 mph

first gear and then like a 90 something

mph second gear. just geared so long and

more importantly widely spaced that the

car was just you do two shifts and

you're atund and something miles an

hour.

>> Uh did you ever you've driven a 4.2

manual or first generation Audi R8?

>> Yeah.

>> You like that?

>> I I like the gated shifter. I love the

engine. I love that engine. The response

of it. Um my favorite

>> but better than the uh than the

Gallardo.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. It wasn't geared. I don't

remember it being geared. I think it was

a 40 mph first, but I think you know

there's they're not the same

transmission, are they?

10. There's I there's no way that Audi

was geared that long.

>> No way. I would have never and I did

live in Michigan, which does have big

wide open spaces and and high-speed

roads, especially compared to the Bay

Area. Um when we had we had a long-term

Audi R8 4.2 first year at Automobile and

we all drove the [ __ ] out of it and

drove in the winter and it was just kind

of a longterm that we signed out. Um,

and I don't remember disliking it. I

remember disliking the RS4's. Um, we'll

talk a little bit more about RS4 next

week. Actually, here's a teaser. Um, the

RS4 was impossible to be smooth in,

which drove me [ __ ] crazy. Um,

>> I did not find that to be for the R8.

>> No, not at all. Totally different. That

was why I that was why I said that's

something you'd miss out if you ever got

an R8. Like, oh, I've driven an RS4.

I'll take a, you know, a automated

manual or a dual clutched R8. No, no,

no, no.

>> Then you miss out the stick on the on

the changes. Yeah.

>> Um, I don't know if I would I would want

a manual in a

>> No. In a big car, I don't know that it

makes sense. I mean, it used to be a

thing for sure. You could buy from the

factory a manual S-Class through the

126,

>> which is an absurd notion. There

>> are manual 140s, not the US.

>> That's true. There was a dog leg manual

available in the 300 SE. that I mean a

7,000 RPM twin cam variable valve timing

straight.

>> You would never get to 7,000 RPM because

it doesn't have enough power because the

thing weighs so much.

>> Come on. I would totally rock that.

There was one green on green that a

friend of ours was looking at recently.

>> Yeah, they turn up every so often in

Europe. It's a pretty cool

>> velour interior. Come on. Like it just

doesn't get

>> I would do it for the idiocy of it.

>> Yes, I would too, but not necessarily

because it would be the superior

solution. like the superior solution is

a big high displacement torquy engine

with an automatic in this car. But just

for the novelty and amusement, I could

see you know enjoying it.

>> Somebody responded to a um uh to last

week's uh episode where we roasted

people's cars and you know we can you

guys do an episode and and we can and I

think we should where we allow our

viewers to tell us what they drive and

then we can [ __ ] on the cars. What we'll

lack then is the interaction where where

we can see the owner start to cry so we

know to back off. But, uh, he had said

has he had a a E39 530i.

Um, and that was a great car to bring

up. I'm like, I there's nothing to say.

It's the best variant of the E39 because

the V8s had a steering box and the the

uh six-cylinder cars had a steering rack

and they steered better and they were

just lighter and and happier. That is a

car that I actually prefer with an

automatic.

>> Yeah, the manual in that car I never

liked. Same way I feel about E39 M5. I

don't like that manual either. Love it.

That's probably I mean I think they

might be different manuals but the same

>> No, they I mean they definitely are

because one's a 5-speed, the other is a

six-speed.

>> That's true. Um yeah, I don't

>> The BMW shifters of that era for

whatever reason. It's such a strange

fall because like the E36 shifter is

fine.

>> Fine. Yeah. E39 I think it was just too

big of a car for me and I had two of

them with automatics back in the day and

I don't think I really wanted a manual.

Wanted for a manual. I you know I still

think I'd prefer I've hustled that car

and it you you start to drive it like a

sports car and like E28s as manuals work

brilliantly and I think an R129 would

too because I enjoy hustling them on

back roads and so I think having one as

a manual I'm I'm not so averse to it as

a a big car as long as it's a big car

that I'm able to hustle. So I think to

me the the differentiator is NVH. If you

can't hear or feel the engine I don't

want a manual. Um, and so even like the

129, that that was an interesting one

after the revelations driving 300, 500,

600 together, right? I I without

question I'd buy a 300 again, even

though it was so much slower. The 500 is

the better car. Uh, it's a better match

for the chassis. The the engine is

[ __ ] brilliant. Um, but I I it the

transmission ruined it on a back road

for me because I was arguing with it and

it won the argument. It doesn't want to

give me whatever gear I wanted. But even

that car is a little bit too isolated

and that's why it feels so slow. It's

not actually that slow. Um, you know,

it's geared nice and short. The engine

makes great noises. Just sounds like

it's someone else's car making that

noise.

>> Um, but yeah, I I don't think I would

fall to anyone, especially once you're

talking about a car for a special

experience to manual swap anything.

>> I think everything should have a manual.

>> Nothing dates a car like an auto like

its transmission.

>> Yes. An automatic.

>> That's true. That is very true. You can

feel you can learn a lot about a that

like that's interesting because then it

goes back even to the pre-war era.

>> You can tell an early 30s car from a

late30s car by the gear change.

>> Manuals you're talking?

>> Yes. Even in a manual.

>> In a manual, right? But that's the

interesting thing. Nothing has changed

in manuals since other than the number

of gears and some synchro technology has

gotten maybe a little bit better but it

done in yeah I was going to say even

maybe earlier

>> ever since Porsche synchros arrived

>> Porsche and pioneered modern synchro

mesh

>> and that's it no changes have it's been

incremental so from anything from the

60s through today um there's no real

difference in

anything to do with how a manual works

whereas autom atics are continuing to

evolve and so they date the car. Even

infotainment, which I think would you

would intuitively say would date a car,

especially from the 2000s. Every time I

get into anything from the 2000s,

someone has bought a $112

Chinese knockoff infotainment system on

eBay that shows up in two days and is

plug-andplay and replaces the factory

[ __ ] with a touchcreen and CarPlay.

And so even that does isn't dating these

cars anymore. And I mean like on iDrive

cars and MMI cars, Audi MMI cars and

cars where that screen was so well

integrated with the whole car that we

all thought this will never be replaced.

10 something bucks and it's just problem

solved.

>> I wish the transmissions were that way.

So

>> yeah,

>> interesting.

>> Right. Well, that was varied this

episode in

>> with a common thread

>> of that car being in the background.

>> Okay. The only [laughter]

>> great well tune in next week for

additional carmagination.

>> Sure. I have nothing to add. [music]

Is There Any Manual Swap You Shouldn’t Do? — Carmudgeon w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep 211

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