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Is This Lemon Worth Squeezing?
Is This Lemon Worth Squeezing?
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About this episode
Exploring the complexities of lemon laws, this episode dives into what constitutes a 'lemon' vehicle and the varying regulations across states. Host Dave Polach shares personal experiences with lemon cars, detailing his encounters with dealerships and manufacturers. The discussion highlights the frustrations consumers face when dealing with persistent vehicle issues and the lack of accountability from dealerships. Listeners will gain insights into navigating lemon law claims and the importance of documentation in these situations.
Topics:
lemon laws
dealership accountability
consumer rights
repair attempts
vehicle issues
state regulations
personal experiences
documentation importance
Cars:
Byd Seal
Join us on "Is This Lemon Worth Squeezing?" as we begin the discussion of lemon cars. Explore the frustration of consumers dealing with defective vehicles and the challenges they face when navigating Lemon Laws. Discover why dealerships often act as middlemen in lemon car disputes, leaving consumers feeling stranded. Tune in for insightful discussions and expert insights on Let's Talk Cars Radio.
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"...ruck. I took the Chevy truck back for there was a seal out of seal problem, almost like Nathaniel has a ..."
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Dave Let's Talkcarsradio dot com. Now here's the host of Let's Talk Cars Radio,
Dave Polage. Happy Saturday, America. You're listening Let's Talk Cars Radio
on w KQA Freedom Radio. I'm your host, Big DAVP hanging out with
Camera Chaos and AVB. Hey, it is a great day for a radio
show. And Hey, as you guys know, car c Man, all
the different shows and stuff is definitely ramping up. We had a great time
last week out of Landstown, Common for the Georgie Smith Annual Car Show.
Good time out there, a lot, I got to see people. It's
good get out there again, man, really be hanging out with people again.
Was packed. Yeah, it was packed. They had a good,
really nice showing out there and stuff like that. I hope that is the
beginning of what is to come for the season. You know, I've been
talking to you guys all during the winter and everybody's been excited for a new car season and you know a lot of new projects people are building what we saw out there and stuff. So it's been kind of cool. So if
you guys in your area haven't got a chance to start hitting some of the car shows, or maybe they haven't start ramping up yet, start looking at all your guys different schedules, look to see what's going out there, and get yourself out there. Like I said, I'm excited for this year because
I'm seeing new cars I haven't seen before. Like I said, So it
looks like for new builds. People purchased some new stuff over the wintertime,
did a little work and time on it. You know, time a lot
of new people too. We saw starting to see a lot of new folks
that we haven't seen before. It is this car show was hacked. It
was so like I said, they had a real good turnout over there, and I'm hoping that it continue to increase. There's a lot of shows already
set up for the year. We're going to be at a lot of them.
We've been requested to be at a lot of different shows this year and stuff, so we'll be getting all those dates to you. Hey, if
you're looking for in our area, if you're the ham Rods here, I know nationwide, but if you're in our area and you're looking for a car show in the ham Roads area, head over to Car Club Council of hamp And Roads website. They're starting to post a lot of the different shows up
there. You can get kind of an update and see what's going on.
Start planning ahead of time so you know which ones you're gonna hit, which ones you're gonna be in town, not be in town for whatever. But
it's been great. So jumping into this week's topic, it's interesting, you
know, we cover a lot of different stuff on the show. You know,
I go back through and I look all the different things we've talked about and stuff. It's amazing how sometimes you didn't talk about the same stuff and
in a different style, Like I many shows. I was kind of going
back to some of the old shows and looking and I was like, man, you know, we've talked about this eight or nine different times, from eight to nine different approaches though over the course of the years. It's kind
of crazy how that works. Yeah, But one thing, you know,
we really never got into and has come up and people have been sending me some things and I've just kind of been following it. It's hard sometimes to
talk about something unless you really have I would say, what enough content to really dig into it. And now we finally kind of do. I get
questions about the lemon laws. So you know, when I buy a car,
what really constitutes it being a lemon you know, how what are the platforms I can stand on as far as having something done and stuff. And
it's really interesting because like every single state's a little different really when it comes to a lemon lay. I really kind of thought it'd just be like a
broad statement right across for lemon law across the board, but it's not certain states. Is it a big difference or is it small different? Some are
big, some are minute, but okay, so like the state of Virginia, guys, the lemon law kind it is straightforward to a certain degree, but it really isn't. And that's the reason why we're jumping into it,
because it's not content. It gives you the upfront information. So basically,
the car has to be within eighteen months. Okay, So within eighteen months
of owning the car, and you had to lose thirty days of use time within a year or something like that, and had it back for the same thing three different times, and it has to all be documented. So there's
a lot of the same thing seem to be small to jump through, but you had okay. So there's so many different variations of this. First of
all, if a dealership brings your car in and you know, it's like the same problem three times, but it's word it different, like as if they're attacking a different problem, even though it really is a different problem that could play into the Lemon law. Like it doesn't, it won't qualify.
Let's just say you have it. Let's say you have a starter problem,
right, just to let you guys know, the qualifications do vary based off of state or in our state in Virginia, it does have to have three unsuccessful attempts to fix it that repair, or it has to have one attempt on a repair of a serious safety defect, or it has to have been out of service for at least thirty days. So well, I know already
a of cars off the top of my head that spinning service from right right, Like I said, So there's it's funny how it lays out because, like I said, it's a lot of wordings. So like I said,
you could take a car in for let's say your starter, as I was trying to explain, But if I word at one time a customer's complaint is a starter, and then I word it the next time vehicle the vehicle wasn't starting, possibly due to ignition those even though it probably is the starter, again it's worded different. So now it's a starter problem. Now it's an
ignition problem, you know what I mean, those little little variances. It
doesn't get in. So it doesn't count if it's three separate problems. No
it does. It's like it's kind of like a little weird, don't you
think, because if it's like overall, you be saying that, you know, the car's a limit. So as I went through some of the laws,
like I guess we're talking with a couple of attorneys that cover some of that stuff. There is some ways like if the car just continuously has problems
right and over and over again, there are different problems at that point there is a little bit of leeway to determine. Rather, they believe that you
can apply some pressure on a hot one can only assume you're going to have even more problems as it wears down, right, if you're already having problems.
Absolutely, So I'm surprised that there's not like a mileage cap. So
that would make more sense to me, like coul have anything on the mileage it gave me based on heage eight, which doesn't make any sense because when wasn't I sit on my car for so long? Well sit and it doesn't
really destroy it? No, I got it and I understand. So what
if you get to the point where, okay, so I took the car in this month and it was the starter, and the next I take it in, and now it is the manifold, and now I take it in it's having a transmission problem. It's like in every it seems like every couple
of months there's a problem with the car. At that point in time,
I believe the cars is the limit, right, So let me ask you this, right, so does the rule state that in the thirty days it could has to be the same three things, or is that just one thing that has to call on the mission for thirty days? And I think it's
that's the only aids within a year's time, you had to lose lose use of the car for thirty days within the fall under one category. But my
understanding is is it has to be the same problem three times without it being able to So that's a fall under multiple things, right, count as a lemon? No, it doesn't seem like if it's multiple things, it's like
almost it doesn't count as a lemon. It has to be the same thing
with unsuccessful repairs or you keep on having the same problems. You know what
I'm asking it is like, so like if I have if it's just getting worked on for thirty days, right, that's just one thing that it falls under, right, right, Well, let's say it's I think it's it's like three days, thirty days. I don't think it has to be thirty
days continuous, right, just in general? In general, So if I
had, like if I had like a transmission problem and then I had a little bit of engine problem, even those are three separate things, it still falls under that thirty day rule, right, it does, But I don't.
I don't think. So it had to be you hit the car had
to be there for three times for the same problem, so it falls under all of it. Okay, that so that kind of sucks. It really
does, like I said, and so is right Cam, because you have I was about to say, I was actually just looking into that. So
let's take California for example. Right, So, California's lemon laws say that
there has been four or more unsuccessful attempts to fix any warranty problem. See,
and that's how states like that means, like Nate was saying, if there's four different warranty problems, correct, you know, which technically eight months with well, yeah, because you know that's the criteria eighteen months, but not just means like some cars sell thirty two thousand mile warranties. What happens
if there was four different you know, what happens if there was four different things that happened to that car, that means that's a limon. Well,
that classifies that as a lemon. Well here's the thing. You know,
I told you guys, you know I bought I bought a lot of vehicles of my time, and I've had weird things happen on brand new vehicles.
You know. I had Chevy pick up AC compressor boom out. I think
I had eleven thousand miles of the truck. AC compressor went bad on it.
But then within two years of me owning the truck, I saw that they were known to have a C they were having AC problems. So I
wasn't the only one. There was a bunch of Chevy trucks had AC problem,
but I hit mine, and I when of mine went bad, I looked up and nobody was complaining. Yet it was like I thought, I
just maybe had a just a problem that was just there mysteriously. Oh you
got this problem. And then within two years after having mine fixed, I
see there's all kinds of stuff on forum sites talk about Chevy trucks and they had a C compressor problem and stuff like that. And I wasn't the only
one. I was just like, so was I. I was one of
the first ones to start figuring out, figured it out, start talking about it. I don't know, I just know that I always go to you.
Never did you ever contact them about that or did you just kind of just push it off and just do yourself? Oh no, no, no,
I took it right to the dealership and they had I took you the dealership. But then they were kind of like I wouldn't say they were jerks
about it, but they were just kind of like, you know, I'm like, look, happen, right, I'm like, no, it wasn't like almost like they didn't believe what I was saying. At first. I'm
like, look, it's only got eleven thousand miles on it, and it's you know, it's got it seems to be having an AC problem. And
I think it went first time and they mess around with it, and I think, if I remember C I had to take it back the second time.
Is finally when I was like, okay, so there's something definitely wrong here with the ACE. Wait most of these do. And it's like you
kind of have to shake your head because we're in the world, so we know like dealerships and stuff. But even for like the regular person, you
know that dealerships know that this has happened. Right. That makes me,
That is what makes me upset every day every week, Like, Okay, I could I believe that twenty years ago, guys you could get away with bs and people and it's like, oh, Wow, you know that's a new one. That's a new one on us, when they know that's not
a new one on them. And scratch my head. You have right.
You have the computer now, and the computer tells on you like everybody's talking.
You get in these forums where you know there's literally you go through when there's twenty five thousand comments and where people are like, yep, have that problem, having the same problem, and how did you guys get it resolved?
You can't hide anymore. With a day of technology, there's no hiding
behind if you've got a problem, everybody knows about it. You got to
remember for the computer, right, they just do everything. Everything was like
word of mouth before the computer. And I know a lot of you guys
listen to the show, remember life before the computer. Some of the their
generations they don't. You know, we'd be But what you guys don't remember,
like come on the bee boopy boop. Yeah, you literally life before
the computer, not this b boot bee boom stuff you're talking about. I'm
talking about the only way you heard about things and stuff like that was word of mouth, and it made it from one person to another person. And
that's how we had as technicians had discussed, we didn't have the opportunity, like right, the second if you run into something weird on a car, right and it's broken, you jump on the internet and there's somebody usually there that's already had the problem and can tell you how to fix it. We
didn't have those options. What I mean, like now with computers being so
in every aspect of everything, now there's no hiding. I mean there's no
rock that you can hind or that hasn't been flipped over and go okay, yeah he's full of crap. And people are still lost, right right,
Yeah, people are still lost, still lost. I'm like, say Google
to people and they're like, what's Google? No? No, people like
them, like and in pure kindness of trying to easy, look are looking right, They're like no, And I'm like and so and so been.
The first thing I would have did, the very first thing I would have done, was you're right, the Internet is telling on a lot of these dealerships. What's the number one thing people are doing now is when you tell
them what the problem is, they're going, Okay, give me one second.
You know, And we're not only seeing that about information, but we're also seeing that about pricing too with dealerships, you know, like where people are there's one thousand dollar difference in price on a car on the sound vehicles say do like I said, you can't hide. The computer keeps it where
you cannot hide. Nowadays, if you're doing some things that may be people.
I'm not saying they're wrong, we just may not agree with them as buyers or whatever it may be, there's no way for you to hide.
And the Lemon law is the one thing that just I really think that that needs to be reorganized the way that that works. I know people who have
their cars that have been at the shop. They bought a brand new car.
You buy a new car, so you have no problems, right, well, but the cars at the cars at the shop five times and they just got it and you're like, what's like you hold on, hold hold on? The thing was one of them. I haven't gone right, but
I really do because I personally waited for the winter to pass. So when
I go there and stuff, I be like, look because of the weather condition, because obviously you can tell any weather condition the hot and cold right exactly. Therefore, you know you gave it time to like you know,
because some people will be like, well, you know, am I just flattened down if you don't know what we're talking about. We talked about many
episodes ago wh Nathaniel bought his new car. He sees material on his seat
that he doesn't like, the way that set the seat. Okay, yeah,
I'm not really Yeah it was a seat, but I wasn't really, you know, worried about the sea Why I'm talking more about the window seel itself right, the leather in your seat, I mean about the way just got a little bit it is. So here's the thing. The car is
new, right, he bought a brand new car. And this happens to
a lot of people. It happened to me. I've told you guys little
stories and stuff, and I got some more I'm gonna share with you guys to day about I've had some lemon lall issues, so I've literally had to go in and try to activate the lemon law and stuff on two different vehicles I bought. I want to tell you guys about it. You guys,
hold tight. I gotta take a quick course of break. When we come
back, we're gonna dive a little bit more into is this lemon Worth squeezing.
I'll be right back. You're listening to Dave John Let's Talk Cars Radio.
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three. That's seven five seven four sixty four one thousand and three. Welcome
back. So let's talk cars Radio. You're automotive specialists. Now back to
your host Dave Polach. Hey, guys, welcome back. So if you're
just joined us, we were talking about lemon laws and lemon cars and how do you know you have a lemon you know, and basically what do you do if you have one? Like I said, it's come up a lot
in conversation lately. People have sent me some information. Cameron and I were
just talking about last week. We know somebody that's got a car. They
believe that it's falls in underneath the lemon law. I knew it probably didn't
and not because of the circumstances. Right, So this person's had this car
has a lot of problems with cars been to the dealership many times for different stuff, but time right so to they're past what the eighteen months? Now?
Had you asked me, I would go, God, yeah, that that car's a lemon. The car. Every time you turn around, there's
something wrong with the car. It's got to go to the shop for something.
You know. I don't people. I've told you guys stories people that
buy cars brand new and then the cars sit at the dealership for four months waiting for repair and you just bought the sh so but you but there's ways the argument right at a certain point because like whyman's if you like, So, I know someone that bought a car, right, and they waited a year for the car, right, So you know, if you don't get the car for a year a year, I don't think you know, you take I think the laws writ until you take the delivery of the car, right, So I think that kind of now you're right. So I know
people who have purchased cars and had to wait for it and they made payments on the car. Why they were waiting for it and then it breaks once
you get it. You know, what do you do at that point?
You already passed? So that's why I believe it should be a mileage thing,
because a mileage maybe more miles. I want years too. I don't
mind if you connect my well yeah, if it's adjacent thing, right, But I mean the mileage at a certain point does dictate like the wear and tear on the unit. Well, it does. Like so okay, for
instance, guys, so my pickup truck has low miles on a consider for it is it's twenty fourteen. Everybody's like, oh, you need to buy
a new truck. I don't want to buy a new truck. I want
my truck. I don't have any payments on it. It's still got long
miles. I think I just tipped eighty on it is all I tipped on
it. We were in two thousand and four thirteen, you know what I
mean. Now, keep in mind I had the truck for three years and
didn't break fifteen thousand miles in three years. I think, I mean just
because I was just kind of driving here and there with the vehicle and I was driving something else. And then when we moved out here in the country,
then the drive out of the country to go back into town back and forth tend to be a little bit more miles, and that's how I did to put more miles on it. But it's still got really baby miles on
that truck for what it is, you know. So that's why I always
I've always hindrance on miles because some people had to drive a lot. So
if you go over the miles and I've literally okay, so I know it's going to see weird. I have customers in the past that drove their vehicles
and put sixty thousand miles in a year on the vehicle, and I'm like, how do you do that? I don't want to time the car.
Sixty thousand miles on your car in a year. Well, they have a
driving job, and I just could have never thought about all the driving that has to be done and how quick that is. So if you do a
mile cap on something, there's some people that are going to hit that milecap way before if you did a year's structure on it. So that's reason why
I'm always kind of hesitant on it. The end result of it is is
okay. So I'll tell you guys a story. So if it's just a
year law, that means you can almost wrack up one hundred thousand miles, and if you just have problems three or four time out of one hundred thousand, it's classified, right, Okay, So I got that's kind of a terrible way to go with the law. We bought a company truck years ago.
I'll tell you one of my lemon stories. So we bought a company
truck years ago. I think I've a little bit told the story on here.
I don't think how much I told. We had bought a brand new
truck. I want to say the price in that company truck was seventy eight
or eighty thousand dollars. It was quite a bit of money. Okay,
nice truck, fully loaded. Day one, the truck comes home. There
was something felt that didn't feel right in the truck. So then of course
all of us, you know, being technicians and you know, and being in that field, everybody takes a stab at driving it without really truly diving into it, like let's just just drive it. You tell me what you
think. And everybody came back like, man, there's there is something wrong
with that truck. It's all cars. Trucks drive differently. They do.
You're absolutely right, but it something was definitely wrong with it. So and
it was a Ford. So we contacted the dealership first, right, and
we're like, hey, just count the truck from you. Something's wrong with
this truck, like there's something that doesn't feel right. And of course when
you first buy it, everybody's like, oh, don't worry, bring it on down, we'll get to that down and you know, we'll figure it out. And you know, blah blah blah, will you take it down
there? And they couldn't find the problem. Now here is the crazy thing
on this deal. They agree that they felt something to right, right,
They're like, yeah, we definitely feel something, but they couldn't tell what was causing it. They had no idea how to fix it, what the
real problem was. So after a couple times, like we take the truck
and we're like, man, it's getting worse. We take the truck back
in and they're like, well, yeah, well here's what we're going to do. I think like the third time they were like, here's what we
suggest. Ford has been contacted and they agree that they're having some sort of
problem, but they don't know what it is yet erect how to rectify it.
So what their suggestion is park it until they can come up with a remedy of how they're going to fix and progress for it. So imagine you
bought a seventy eighty thousand dollars vehicle that you want to enjoy, and you bought and their response to you is parked the vehicle and we'll get back to you. So did you ask about the lemon or are you trying? Were
you trying to give the benefit now? Trying to give them the benefit of
doubt first? But we were giving nowhere right now? You guys know before
you ask thank you for your eighty thousand By the way, thank you for your eighty thousand dollars contribution. It went to park bucket. It went from
papaweek nice being nice to like we were the problem. I'm like, how
are we the problem? We purchased a truck for all we've done is purchased
a truck from you. And that's when I found out the dealership really has
no responsibility. They hold no responsibility for anything they sell you. Really your
beef is with the manufacturer. And even though they made the money on the
deal, they are just the middleman and they really hold no responsibility. They
could just go I washed my hands of you. You deal with the man.
But here's the thing. You have to go through a dealership for the
deal with dealership problems and its right, so it has to be made, you know, if you're doing with the manufacturing problem, has to go through a dealership. And when that dealership doesn't want to mess with it because they
realize it's just a really sticky and icky situation, they don't really want to be involved. You are the only person that falls short on that bag for
us. Literally, they told us they just park the truck and we'll get
with you when we figure out how to fix it. But don't drive it
because if you go over your miles on it, well then it won't be covering a warranty. Like okay, So you realize that the truck has a
problem, right, you don't know how to fix it, but you're telling me park it so I don't go over a certain amount of miles. Oh,
so you're not going to address it. You're modeling another one and they
wouldn't do it. Yes, my response to that, and like and a
lot of customers response is to this. Recently, you know, with a
lot of recalls coming out because recalls is a part of the Limon law if it stays for thirty days, you know, right, But a lot of customers are going, I'm not parking this at my house. Park it at
your dealership, Leave it at your dealership. Hold on because you do not
want to take that get's default the dealers off. You asked a question.
Do we asked to get another one? We asked to get another one?
They told us no. Then they came out with the next year model and
went completely in a different direction with the way it was built. Right,
So we said, look, only within a couple months and the truck had been sitting, We're like, look, we'll give you this truck back.
We will purchase the next year model for the additional money. We even pay
the additional money on it. Just take this truck. Let us get the
new one that obviously they've corrected the problem in now, and let's have that truck and you guys figure out what then you all can sit on to you figure out how you can fix it. They wouldn't do that. That was
probably the final straw. We end up talking with Ford on the phone on
it, and we got no resolution and the only thing we had to really do, I mean, and it didn't really felt good to do it, but we did. So we went and bought like ten cases of lemons.
You ever bought a case of lemons. It's a lot of lemons, a
lot of lemons, and there are big cases. And we took all the
lemons, and we took our staff and we had our staff right the name of the dealership. Don't buy from here, because you'll get a lemon.
And then we paid somebody to stand out on the street corner and hand them out at the stoplight to people as a joke. That was our That was
our payback. And everybody's like, I can't believe you all spend that money
to do that. I'm like, you don't realize that is the best It
was the best money. Plus, I think, if I remember correctly,
on a lot of the lemons that had our business name on the backside, so it was advertising promotion, prom in front of their dealership, handing them out at the stoplight, in front of their dealership handing out lemons. How
many times they called the police breaking You weren't breaking the laws. And I
think the only thing they asked us at one point time is we had people like in the center medium handing them out at the tournamy and stuff like that that could be a little dangerous. So you know, we agreed, but
they thought it was funny too. Let me tell you, we really didn't
get anywhere. It didn't help us anything with truck. We hadn't fix the
truck ourselves, by the way, so they never got back with you.
No, they just left us stranded with this brand new truck. We ended
up finding out what the problem was and we correct it. What it was,
it was the regenerator system that was going bad in the Fords and stuff like that. So we would ahead and just removed all that stuff off it,
and then the truck ran just fine without that stuff on it. So,
you know, say, and it was funny thing. They're like,
well, if you take that off, you void your warranty. I'm like,
you're not honering your warranty anyway talking about it. And another thing is
if you have modifications on your car, Let's say you do the most simplest modification to the car in the first month. You yeah, I hate that
one. I hate that one too. Felt so you could put a wing
on the car and it avoids the warranty. No, it felt so good
just to hand those lemons out with their name, like I said, the name of them was written on every lemon, like I said, we just took all our staff and filled out everything on these lemons and were handing them out, and it was funny. And it's funny because like two years later,
so we brought me a lemon that they they had kept it and it got hard and everything, but you can still see the right none it and they kept it. So it was just funny because you felt like you had
no repercussions, right, Like you're like you're stuck with this vehicle, and believe it or not, it's not the first time this has happened to me.
So you know, I've told you guys, I've had basically two lemons, and I was a little smarter the second time that it happened because it was on the Chevy truck. I told you guys a little bit. That's
about that story before that. We bought a Chevy truck and had some issues
with it, and then it was like I was kind of felt like I was getting the blow off and I was like, oh man, I recognize how this works. This is going no where this is going. I just
knew it, so I, and I was a little bit better prepared because I already knew the avenues that was gonna go to where they were going to basically bow out and go, oh, well you have to deal with the manufacturer. It's not us, Yeah, right right. I already knew I
was gonna have to go down that road, and I was prepared for it earlier enough to get ahead of that, so they couldn't get me stuck in that box. So it's it's interesting, just I feel weird, like brought
the news out, you know, made a whole news podcast about the one for the Lemons. I believe got a little bit of coverage coverage. I
just got a little bit of coverage, not a lot, but I got a little bit of coverage, which was kind of was kind of cool, you know, I mean, like, well, it was worth spend like five hundred dollars to go ahead and just stick it to him. So the
end the story, the one with the four problem was we got attention because we got to cease and assist letter from their lawyers to stop. So we
definitely got all the attention that we wanted to get. They knew that we
were upset, Like I said, didn't do anything, but sure it felt good to stick it to somebody. Man. And just you know, when
you you, you feel like you got just a little bit satisfaction. You
might have faced my vehicle, but I caused you some problems there for a little while. Exactly. Hey, guys, I gotta take another commercial breakwa
come back. I got some more stories for you. We're gonn talk a
little bit more about this Lemon Los stuff. So you guys, hold tight,
We'll be right back. You're listening to Dave on Let's Talk Cars Radio.
Dave, We'll be right back. Hey Dave, what? Hey,
Dave what? I've got a secret? What are you twelve? No,
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you soon, Hey, guys, day from Let's Talk Cars Radio. So
for the last two years, if you listen to the show, you've heard me talk about my dream house. It has been a great experience buying land,
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Wilow and Sons Incorporated. Welcome back to Let's Talk Cars Radio, your automotive
specialist. Now back to your host, Dave Polach. Hey, guys,
welcome back. So we're still talking about Lemons. And like I said,
if you guys didn't check out the first two segments because you were doing something you probably shouldn't have other than listen to the show, you should be listening to it. Lemon, Let's you got a car show and listen to car
show. Lemons just been the real popular. Like I said, it's been
kind of going on. There's been a lot of different feedback. I've got
a lot of different questions about it, and you know, I really wanted to kind of really go through it all and take a look at all the different laws and how they apply and where they apply. Like I said,
as I've told you guys. You know, different states, different laws.
I find it funny that the dealerships always they have no there's no repercussion for them. That always falls back in the manufacturer. I understand that the dealership
is a middleman party, but they profited off to sell that vehicle, so I would think they should be somewhat responsible for something. You know, they
they literally for us in our situation with the four truck. Well they promoted
right, so they're promoting it, yeah, right, But you probably would have never got that car if they didn't. Like, you know, sometimes
going to do like you go to the dealership and the salesman takes you towards that car. He's like, look at this car. This car looks really
good in you and you probably wouldn't know about that car. Okay, I'll
give you you should never go to the first car that the dealership. So
when I went looking for we went to go look for the new car a couple of years ago for Dawn. When we bought the camera, I made
it very like a way. I didn't want a CBT transmission. There were
certain things I didn't want, and it did like I had two different I had the salesman that was helping me go get another sales been to try to convince me why you know, you know I had to worry about a CBT.
You want to know that what they were selling that year, they had a lot, so they had to get us our car, you know what I mean? Because they have not another one? So what people just don't
the difference? Now I knew, I knew I didn't want one. I
know what's wrong with those things. I feel sorry for anybody who has one,
because here's a problem you can't really fix. Some of the transmission goes
bad. You got to buy a whole other transmissions. And they're like,
that's you go in, Yeah, exactly, it's not you can go in and just fix the problem. You're just junking the transmission and get another one.
And I and I know that, but they're literally trying to convince a guy who knows better why CBTs they're great, you know what I mean.
I'm like, no, No, they're not like you got either. You
don't know cars. You just been like stupefied and told just to say whatever
to sell a car. And that's when you start feeling weird about it,
you know, right, kind of pressured into it, right? Why you
can't pressure me into it? Well? No, but but in general you
feel like he's kind of putting you in that corner, right, no car that you don't really want. That's exactly how I feel. So it's one
of those things where if you get to the point where you buy a vehicle, right, and you feel like they led you down that road and now you have it and you have nothing but problems with it, then you're like, how are you guys able to step out and not be responsible? Right
and just to you know, to be able to let you know what a limit car is, because that's the topic that we're talking about. You know,
if you've missed the other two segments, like he was saying, I don't know what you were doing. But to qualify for the protection under the
limit laws, a defect or issue must occur within a specific timeframe or a statue of limitations, usually during the vehicle's warranty period. Or Secondly, it
should persist despite a reasonable number of repair attempts or by the manufacturer of its offering the stable so it is either or it doesn't have to be all of them, but it has. The car had to been there three times for
the same problem on the same problem. Yes, the same problem on addressed
as well as it say, these repair attempts are critical aspects of the Lemon laws, meaning the notes like he was saying, and are going to how they put it on, how they put it in, how it goes against you. I'll give you. I'll give you a perfect example so that it's
a Lemon law. Right. I had a seat in my Chevy truck repaired
because the seat didn't feel right. And here we are, and it's years
later. I can feel there's something wrong with in the seat again where they
made the repair. I know, I can tell exactly where they made the
repair. I know where it is. And I'm like, now, I
know it's years later, but it's internal in the seat. It's not anything
external in the seat. It's internal. There is the seat warmer and all
that kind of stuff is in it. And I feel like the seat warmer
has shifted again, which it shifted before, and I can feel I can I can feel that it's something has shifted in it. You can feel a
divot. I can feel there, not that there's a divot, but I
can feel it in there. I can feel where the there's like a sensor
or something like that has shifted, and I can kind of if I put my hand on the tior, I can feel it. And that's what I
complained about before. So something still it never got repair right. I don't
know if they and I can't see inside of the sea. They could.
It's easily went in there and just zip tied it, you know what I mean, in place, and when the zip tides will let go. I
would never know because it's internal. But that's why I feel like I get
irritated when it comes to dealerships sometimes because I feel like they bear the responsibility of subthing right on the Chevy truck. I took the Chevy truck back for
there was a seal out of seal problem, almost like Nathaniel has a rubber seal problem. And I was like, look, the seals felt like it
was shrinking. It was coming It's molded and it goes into a round and
feel like it was shrinking and coming out of it like where it rounds out.
I just got the truck. I'm like, look, it's not like
that on the other side, but it's like this on this side. Well,
here we are years later, it's twenty fourteen, it's really worn down well, and it starts it's doing it again on that same window. It's
doing it again on that same window, and I'm like, it's obviously a hinder. It's a problem. Something's wrong with it if it's doing again,
not doing it on the other window. Still all these years later, but
on the same window, and now I see it where it is starting to mess up the paint because it's pulling away and it's messed up the paint.
Yeah, that's weird. Yeah, So I'm just like I think that I'm
thinking and I can't say that when they fixed the rubber seal the first time they went in and sprayed my truck painted it right there where they replaced that seal, And now I'm having a paint issue right in that corner because it's was an aftermark, you know, it wasn't painted in when manufacturer something they went in and sprayed and painted. Because the paint feels like it's starting to
let go, almost like it didn't here with like the right epoxy or anything like that. So there's little things and those things. For a car person,
you spend a lot of money on your guys's car. You feel like
you should have some type of repercussion, but there's there's none. It's I
can remember going back and talking about my seat one time and they were like, well, we don't see it in here. We even touched your seat.
I'm like, but you did. But it's funny that you did.
So did you fix it? You did make notes of it. So what
happens funny that you actually mention the paint defect thing because we have a friend that you know, and I mentioned the spoilerd thing because he put a spoiler on his car and then noticed that there was a paint defect. Dealership came
back and was like, well, it's the glue that you used on the spoiler and he's like a spoiler on He's like, wait a minute, now he put this. This is where they messed up. They were like,
well, it's the glue you used. And he sent a message back and
was like, buddy, I didn't use glue. I used three M tape
like you guys tell it on because he bought the spoiler from them. He
was it was like, well, you use the three M tape that you guys provided on the spoiler that I bought from you guys. Right, and
then yeah, and they never messaged back, and now he has different spots popping up, so he's like, I have to take it back to the dealership. I have to see what is going on. So he's about to
run through that too. I'm sure we'll talk about it on the show.
Sure, he's gonna go. They're gonna be like, well you put that
on there, and like but here, if come on, guys, let's just be honest, like just to be a problem. We're not that dumb,
right, I mean, some consumers are, but for the most part, if you're when you're buying something like that, something like that, you know what you're buying. You know if you're putting spoilers or something. You're
not the word kind of a car guy. It's not the word easily misguided.
They know there's a problem. But if that some sometimes if somebody goes
no it's supposed to be like that, they believe it when it's not supposed to be. Times I've had a customer in the year's past kind of me
and go my talk to the dealership. They told me supposed to be like
that, and I'm like, no, no, it's not give me.
The guy's information. I'm like, you know, it's not well okay,
so here it comes like, let me call him, please, let me give you example. So I said it. I told you I tuned your
vehicles. If you guys remember I told you the story. We owed two
Chevy trucks within a weekend. I bought one Chevy truck. It came in
and there was a problem with my Chevy truck from the day one. Day
one, there was a problem with the Chevy truck. It's okay. That
that just reminds me of when they say it's supposed to be like that just reminds me of when he got a call this week and was told that his spindles are supposed to be like you guys know the spindle saga goes on.
I told you guys, I wear spindles for the trains that we wait for him to come in. And I had to go through it, and I'm
told that's the way they're supposed to sit, and we're gonna roll with it.
It looks hanky to me. Do you like my message? I was
sketchy. So I end up talking to the manufacturers quick time to get off
this topic. But I talk with the manufacturer if you guys don't know,
we're you know, we're still being the bad am and you know, putting spindles, new ball joint stuff like that, and things didn't seem to go together the way that I want to go together. But apparently it's design like
that to give you more angle and your steering and stuff a little slack.
No, it's not slack. So we're just but that's my and I get
it. I just I've never seen installed that way on this topic, but
I just it was funny on the way how it trans a message. I
sent messages today and said, hey, just so you know, they're supposed to be like that, and he's like sketchy. I put the straight face
because I could only send it a quick reply and I was just like for real, was like, I don't think so, but I guess we're gonna roll with. I mean, here's the thing. The good thing about it
is is I didn't buy like junk Japanese parts. I bought from people who
have good names, who have been in the business for a long time.
I just never assembled it like that, and seeing it look like that on anything I've ever put together, now I understand I'm building kind of a little bit of a racist suspension set up for the car. So maybe that's kind
of the difference because it's not like I build a race suspension every day, especially in that particular car. So that mean why it seems strange to me.
But I don't know what it's still gonna be weird to be even looking at them. Has three defects and it comes back to the shop. It's
a lemon loss. So I gotta do this. I gotta take quick rush
of break. I will tell you the story of the Chevy truck. I've
told you guys a little bit about it and stuff like that. I'll tell
you explain how limon we kind of falls into that because I had to pull that card on that one too. So you guys, hold tight. We'll
be right back. You're listening to Dave Pilach on Let's Talk Cars Radio.
Dave, We'll be right back. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound
of care. Well, here's a pound of prevention from your NAPA Autocare Center.
We'll customize a preventive maintenance package for your vehicle that will save you time, money, and hassles now and down the road. We'll ask do you
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Filled yours at your NAPA Autocare Center today. Hey guys, Dave Pillocks
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Check out the all star team at NAPA BDGHRVA dot com. That's NAPA
BDGHRVA dot com. Let them show you what it's like to work with the
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Let's Talk Cars Radio. You're automotive specialist. Now back to your host,
Dave Polach. Hey, guys, welcome back. So we're still talking about
Lemons. Like I said, so, I told you I had a couple
of stories of myself of Lemons. Sol If you all remember we talked about
it a while. It's been a while back and it comes up a conversation
once a while. No, only did we have, you know, a
problem with the four truck we bought, and we end up having problems with the Chevy truck. I said, I own two Chevy trucks. We bought
the one Chevy truck, uh and within the first day end up having problems with it. And then I had to go to the dealership and I had
to play the game. Like the stories I hear you guys tell me.
That's why I say, it's like people send me stories. I'm like,
man, I believe you. I know this is true because I've gone through
the same thing. That one was funny, though, that one I won't
spoil it because I want to see where you're going with the story to let our viewers know. But that one was funny on how you found out,
well that it was a liming car, and like how the dealership tried to back it but then they kind of backed themselves up into a corner almost well they did, so we had got the first Chevy truck, and I, like I told a story. The motors start making some noise within the first
day of us having it, like it just had a funny noise to it.
The boys and I were in I was like, man, I was like, the motors making a funny noise. So that was the first Like
I was like, all right, obviously, you need to go back to the dealership on Monday and let's get to the bottom, you know, like what's going on. And then the determinative events just kind of fell in place
from there, right, uh. Caroen went to go set up the radio
in it on start an on Star had already been registered to another customer.
The girl came on the line, So when you try to set up on Star, you got to press that little blue button. And the girl came
on the line and introduced herself by calling us somebody else, somebody else's name, like because he's mister Plots, And they were like, hi, mister Smith, how can we help you here? It's like, what are you
talking about? So, and when it gave us access to the account by
we wouldn't give us ask the account, but gave me enough. But after
I sat and talked with her for a while and explained my situations, like, look, I just bought this truck. I don't know why you're calling
me somebody else's name, She's like, this truck has already been registered to somebody else. It was able to give us the exact date when it gave
me the data was registered, and after talking went her. She gave me
the guy's telephone number that it was registered too, and I called him and he verified that he had owned that truck. Now, keep mind, guys,
they sold me this truck brand new. I didn't buy a used truck.
I bought a brand new truck and somebody had already owned it. As
I talked, Becau when you were selling one against the law, you know what I mean. So like I was already So now I was irritated,
right and well, because what you thought was brand new brand wasn't. Well.
He told me he started the same problems started one. I say,
he had the same problem that I had. He had the same complaint I
had. That's why he took it back. So I was like, it
got right, then it gets worse. I think I told you guys count
as the second time back because it wasn't the first ownership. You know,
I had, Uh, I had put my people underneath the seat. Uh
when I was driving, because I had I used to have a holster forward that locked uneath the seat so it kept underneath there. So I had it
unerneath the seat. Well, I went to put it and I cut my
hand open when I went underneath the seat. I pulled out and I didn't
really realize I did it. I just felt like something brush against my hand.
I didn't think anything of it. I was sitting there talking to Cameron
and Nathaniel, and I looked at my hand was bleeding. I'm like,
how am I bleeding? Like what am I bleeding from? So we're sitting
there talking and I went and got some paper towels, you know, like you know, little napkins whatever, out of my console. Looked on my
hands on me, and I'm like, I cut myself something on the seat.
So I got out of the truck and I looked underneath the seat and it was broken glass underneath the seat, like I swear I've told you guys about this before, and it was it was glass from a window. It
was window glass, like side window glass. So I'm like, okay,
this thing's had a broken window in it at one point in time, how do you get it? Started looking at the stickers and realized, remember you
looked at the sticker, realized the window didn't match this right it was.
I knew it was a different It was a different window, uh that had been put in, which was once again probably should have been a big, huge deal, but it is because I didn't realize you put a new truck.
It wasn't disclosed. So then I start rattling the door. So then
I did. Suddenly I grabbed the door and I started swinging the door back
and forth, and I hear the glass down inside the doorframe and I'm like, it was this it did it had a this thing had a broken window in it that's been repaired, and then just it's just things snowballed from there.
It was like a little thing, like I said, And I was just like, look, So when I called them, they're like, no, what happens is is uh a lot sometimes people, you know, go when they're looking at a new car or start playing with the on Star and they'll activate it so they can see how on Star works. And that's you
know, it probably was just one of the salesmen who made the on Star work in the vehicle so you could show the customer how it works. I
was like, so the salesman registered the on Star and a new vehicle into his name to show a customer how it works, so you can try to sell the vehicle sound pliable to me and home address programmed in. I look,
they did themselves right in the hole. And I went, look,
I'm just gonna let you know I've already contacted customer and owned this truck.
I said, I got his number. I called him. He owned this
truck before me. You all sold me a truck. Then all of a
sudden, that was the whole conversation changed. It was what can we do
to get you a new truck and make it you know what I mean?
But before that they were just sin They were stonewall with me, like like I was the crazy one, and just take the truck to service and have him take a look at that's what they take Your brand new truck you just bought, you've had for less of a weekend, and top it off in service. We'll see what that motor ticket noise is. I'm like, I'm
not, no, I'm not, I'm not taking a brand new truck I just bought. That's making a ticket in the motor to service to have it
serviced. I'm like, this is the most acid nine request. What's gonna
be serviced on a low mileco I'm like, it's like the truck's got like what three hundred miles on it, and it's got a noise coming on the motor and you want me to still own that truck. I was like no,
no, and they, like I said, I let them back themselves in a corner, tell me a story, and then I just went ahead and pulled down and like, look, I know you're full of it.
I know somebody else and they had the same problem I had. So at
that point in time, do you have a lemon? Obviously you have a
lemon. But what happens If I didn't have all of my facts in a
row right, I'd have been stuck with that truck. I'd have been stuck
with that truck. There's nothing I can do. And that's why I said,
I just I find it funny. There's nothing protecting the consumer between manufacture,
the dealer and the consumer. There should be laws. It's almost like
the law wants you to really be on your car to make sure right his aren't right exact. Most people just don't have what happens if you're you know,
you guys listen to radio show. There's a lot of people. There's
car people listening to radio show. There's people who just want car information.
What if you were on the side of just car information type of person who doesn't know enough to even begin to protect themselves and something like that, and you just feel like you're stuck, and I get Frustrated's so frustrated when I hear these stories and find out that that's what happens, you know what I mean? Like, you got some of these people, you know I hear
from They're like, hey, I'm going on month six of my car sitting at the dealership waiting to get a repair, and they've only owned the car before it broke down for a month. When the car is sat there for
five months waiting for parts to come in. Now, I told you,
guys, I understand parts are like crazy. I'm trying to get cars.
We run into that all the time, stories of it, even talking with parts suppliers and stuff like that. In the industry we're in. It's a
rough, tough topic. But I can't imagine buying something brand new. But
I can because I've had it twice. But being in your guys's shoes and
not being a car person, not knowing how to defend yourself or saying the right things or whatever it is. You're six months that they had your car,
there's nothing you can do, and it's brand new. You're still making
those six months where the payment's on it and the car just sits of their dealership with no resolution and no care. Like because they're the middle band,
they don't have to have a care in it because your beef, as far as they're concern, is with the manufacturer and not with them. And I
go, well, one minute, it is with you. You sold me
the car. How do you get to back out of this and dump it
in the manufacturer's left. I don't think that's fair to the manufacturer either.
I'm not defending the manufacturer. I just don't think it's fair on any side
of it, because they really the problem. I get to make my money
and now I get to wash my hands of you, and you got to deal with the manufacturer. It's the Lemon laws really should be changed, Like
I said, they they should be rewritten. I think it's just I don't
know how old some of these laws are. They're on everybody's books for different
states. But I imagine someone have been out there for a while, and
now with cars getting more advanced and stuff, I think the laws should be written to accommodate for that. Because I just hear more and more stories as
time go on about people getting stuck in these situations and they're extremely unhappy about it, and they reached out for help and obviously reaching out to us and telling us their story. They're like, I don't know to do. I
feel like my hands are tied, and I go, you kind of are Your hands are kind of tied because somebody other than you gets to make the decision. Once again, I know you guys are gonna use this reference all
the time, but it is once again guarding the henhouse because they make all the decisions and you have no say so. There should be an intermitted party
who has no say so. No, it's no connection to anything that arbitrates
and decides you're being taken care properly or you're not. And here's what we
need to move forward. There should also be a manufacturing fund that should sit
set aside for situations like this, and if you're dealing a ship, you should have to pay into that where money accumulates. When you run into situations
like this, they can address it and take care of it and make sure the customer feels whole, because if you wrong somebody, like in the court of law, right in acts and stuff like that, the whole point is to make you whole, right, so you should be made whole in this situation as well. So the limit laws have not been up well, the
Lemon laws haven't been comprehensively updated. Since nineteen seventy five, okay, since
the Moss, the magazine Moss warrants the Act. Okay, so they've been
updated through the States, but it hasn't been comprehensively updated. So I stand
by my point. It's time that we do something different. Like I said,
there should be a fund that goes aside that if you're gonna produce cars, if you're gonna sell cars, everybody has to pay into that so when there's problems like this, the customer can be taken care of. Me.
There is a customer union. It was founded in nineteen thirty six. And
I know, but like I said, it's not but how much you know, are they really rightly you know, putting their hands in the I agree with you, like I said, I just it bothers me. I hate
when I feel like people are getting being gotten over on. I don't know
why. I you know, I always feel like I'm like God beat the
chessco and we should take care of this. But we should. It's just
the right thing to do. It is the right thing to do, is
take care of the customer. I'm not saying the customer is always right because
I don't believe in that at all. I don't not believe the customer is
always right. Sometimes you have to just agree to disagree with your customer and
they just go separate ways, and you're that's just what it is. Doesn't
mean you have to do right by them just because now you make a decision business whatever. But certain decisions are made on two wrongs don't make it right
right, absolutely so, like I said, you get stuck on that.
He's like, technically the equation does say two wrongs do equal Wait, no, it doesn't on that hoe, guys. I hope this has been informative
for you, guys. It's been interesting for us to dive into it.
I'm glad that we kind of just talked about it a little bit. Like
I said, you see more and more. I have to go ahead and
get out of here. That is the end of our show. You guys,
Enjoy your Saturday. Sunday's right around the corner. Turn off the TV,
unplug, spend some time with their kids. They'll love you for it.
You guys, got anything before we get out of here, Enjoy your weekend. Enjoy your weekend, all right, guys, that's it. Hey,
if you didn't catch today's show, make sure you go check all of our episodes out on all the different podcast platforms, and remember we're live at one o'clock every Saturday. Talk to you guys soon. Brought here
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