Jaguar special: we ride in prototype 'Type 00'; interview bosses

¿Qué se te quedó? Nada, abuelita. Ya volví con las compras. ¿Cómo conseguiste todo tan rápido? Fasil, fui a Fred Meyer. Tienen de todo y a muy buen precio. El queso cotija, harina masa, clavos, check. En Fred Meyer consigues sus productos de calidad para las recetas familiares de estas fiestas aprecios bajos. Fred Meyer, fresh para todos. Selecciona entre una gran variedad de cupones digitales y utiliza los hasta 5 veces en una transacción. Mira nuestro app para detalles. Fred Meyer, fresh for everyone.

The College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, gross, sacrifices, lights and focus. This is where I think everything you got. All that, that. The attention to detail is like none other. Big physical, big plan. We are the winner. Tulane, takes all no miss. Followed by James Madison in Oregon. It's time to bring it. First round coverage on the College Football Playoff, presented by all states. Saturday at 3.30 Eastern on TNT and HBO Max. Are you ready?

Hello, welcome to the AutoCard Podcast. My Week in Cars with Brian here. Steve Cropy there, Monix Stephen. Morning to you, mate. I should say Steve, this podcast is brought to the reader in association with Anderson. Did you just going to take a wild guess and say Anderson?

Before the end of the year, this is the last chance to claim 5,000 free miles with intelligent octopus go if you do buy an Anderson charger between now and December the 31st.

Somebody, I think we had a letter from somebody who's done just that. Yeah, there is, there is somebody who's done just that. Yeah, Anderson dash EV dot com is the place to go and the people to talk to for these designer chargers, which are British designed and made and are very good to 70 or warranty, very highly rated on trust pilot and at the moment, there is a 5,000 free mile with intelligent octopus go offer Anderson dash EV dot com Matt Locke, the man, not the place.

Right to us AutoCard at a market dot com you can as well. Matt Locke says firstly, well kindly thanks very much. He says firstly thanks for the podcast as a result, I have visited and subsequently joined the at well Wilson museum in Wiltshire despite living in Sheffield.

Thanks to Steve, it's a brilliant place to visit, contain some wonderful cars and is staffed by lovely friendly people, isn't it just it is, it's, it's they're just so sort of

I don't know, but well motivated, it's not there's no commercial staff going on, it's just they just want to display cars and find a way of keeping its nose clean.

Yeah, Matt also become a subscriber thanks to my excellent sales pitch and the archive is a particular joy to flick through on my iPad bringing back great memories of road tests and clover car adverts past listen to that is at the magazine shop dot com still time because this is only the 17th of December still time to get a Christmas gift in if you leave this podcast open near a friend of yours or a loved one.

If I ever get an EV I'll purchase charter from Anderson they look great says Matt guess well a quiet right to by the way when you guys going to visit the motorist near Selby.

How many times have we talked about I know I know next year Steve you were talking to me not the listener about organizing a little tour of places won't you yeah we should go to yeah there's a there's a fantastic museum in Scotland name escapes me but big yeah I think the motorist would be another good.

I reckon three stops would be good and then we you know just do come back with a load of material we would we would we would as features as well yeah we should do that but says Matt my serious can my serious point concerns the chain of events that could have led to a devastating day my daughter is nearly 19 has been driving for just over a year and has a decent new ish Renault Clio because of where we live I put all season tires on it last year which is still in good condition due to the appalling state of the roads near as she hit.

She was particularly bad pot hole and while on the motorway experienced a tire letting go fortunately she was traveling at just under 70 and had the presence of mind on seeing the tire warning light and feeling like she was running over cat size to be able to move over from lane 3 fortunately the cars around had the presence of mind to give a room to do so.

Unfortunately there was a refuge on that particular section of the smart inverted commas motorway from which the majority of the hard shoulder has been removed but without a lot of good fortune it could have been a very different story after she'd been recovered I check the tire because of the lack of marks on it the only conclusion I can come to is the pot holes the cause I know they've been in the news a lot over recent years.

But it's not just damage to cars that pot holes cause but potentially damage to life not only are the national authorities and local authorities making it ever more prohibitively expensive to have cars they're providing us with more dangerous roads to travel on in return doesn't matter how clever cars are if we're using roads that are increasingly unfit for purpose it will just become more dangerous.

And I suppose the only thing you can talk about is sort of gimmlet eyed vigilance you know keep expect the worst there was I saw a video clip earlier today I think a council in summer set I think and they were they were out fixing pot holes on the roads and then somebody was there announcing so what we've done is we're not only going to fix pot holes that have been reported while we're out on this stretch of road we're going to fix other faults in the road that haven't yet been reported.

Like this was some kind of amazingly new kind of thinking that nobody had ever considered before what we might do is see that bit over there see that that's also damaged and fix that while we're here for you think well is that not was that not was that not the way it was done.

It's a new definition of initiative anyway it's I'm pleased.

This week is brought to you with mostly by Steve because you have been this week Steven well just last week as we speak to see and sit in and talk to the Jaguar.

Yeah the Jaguar the what's going on well the the Jaguar that is coming out soon the car that is is created from the concept zero zero the very controversial car and also all those disguised prototypes we've seen going up and down the

busway and through my village and all of it.

It's just come closer and we were a few of us were invited to go to Gaden and go around a track with Matt Becker the dynamics chief who we know very well from

Lotus and then as a Martin.

And he is vehicle engineering director is that right.

Yeah Jaguar and well Jaylar all of the brands.

Yeah fantastic driver.

Anyway the what happened was that we were there was a bit of a chat inevitably about the rules of engagement but the

made event was to walk outside to a disguised but fooled or a version of this car.

Get in and drive around for about 20 minutes with Matt and it was I have to say it was fantastic it completely validated my

view of the car.

I think they.

I came to the conclusion that despite all the careful and the lack of.

Organization about how information's come out and so on all the things we've criticized the car is going to be brilliant.

And you also spoke to.

Rodin glove management director Rodin glove.

Yep that's right and he didn't say anything madly new but he kind of.

It's always good to talk to these guys because they.

They get more and more.

Specific I suppose and he you know I chased him about the name.

I think we're going to hear the name.

Early next year.

The word type is going to be big in it I think.

I my betting is either on type zero or type a or something or a type or.

Type one one of those those sorts of names I think it's he said that the.

The idea of zero zero was to was to very firmly make the point that it is a bit and you beginning and when you see the car you just know it is.

Listen I pitched last week on this podcast that we would have all these interviews I think.

Last weekend just gone but due to a change of embargo it is today and here is Steve talking to Rodin glove.

Rodin glove I hear you are the managing director of Jaguar you have very generously granted me 10 or 15 minutes to chat about.

The latest situation we're seeing concept zero zero today which in going for a ride in it which is an amazing thing to do.

But I've got some questions for your side of the business the business of propelling the thing am I right in thinking the car is nearly finished.

Well actually just a couple not to correct you right off the bat state but today you will like you won't be riding in the concept car you're going to be riding in the production car.

Yeah so that's the first thing to kind of point out the prototype the production car which I guess really leads on to your second question so yeah we're a long way down the track we've built 150 prototypes which are currently going through very exacting testing whether that's crash whether that's error whether it's dynamics.

Safety so yeah very well down the track and yeah all of which leads up to industrial solution out of solid hold so we have brand new purpose built body and white facility that's going to be developed that is being developed and it's constructed now.

Is that the existing building or new building.

Well we can be creative in solid hold we've had to be so yeah very much yeah we are at the point and if I think about the narrative we talked about in the past and what I've spoken about mostly over the prior 12 months it's been around sort of the design concepts and why does the car look like it does.

I think the narrative now the next chapter is okay what is the production car how does it drive talk to me about the technology and that's really the next page that we're sort of edging towards now which is yeah it's an important part because Jaguar needs to look great but it also has to drive in a certain way so we can talk about it.

Yes can you talk about this character of what are you concluded is the is the character the dynamic character of Jaguar yeah so great point and I'm sure you'll get a handle on that today once you've been in the car not finished but we we're getting there we're very excited about the dynamic capabilities of the new architecture.

But I guess to give you an example when when we were going through the dynamics we went back to what we considered some of the best driving Jaguars in our history.

And so what is it about those vehicles that we think is really special that we think he's absolutely quintessentially Jaguar and there are elements you'll hear expressions like what it's about power and reserve.

It's it's a car that is not an out and out sports car but it actually it's a car that you can travel comfortably at high speeds and kind of getting out feeling just as fresh as you get in but it's a car that's also engaging to drive so in driving a lot of those kind of iconic vehicles from our past you know we landed on certain characteristics that we felt actually all be it in a kind of clearly a 21st century new architecture with the different powertrain these are the elements that we need to capture.

And that's really the essence of what we're after. So GT is about right absolutely yeah nicely can you give me the latest dates it's going to we're seeing the well we're seeing some of us are riding in the car for the first time.

That keeps faith with what you said that the truck car would be seen before the end of the year what now.

So in terms of official unveiling so yeah so it's off this is the car everywhere globally that that will be in the summer of next year there are there are series of activities that will be leading up to that which will talk much more about the dynamics of the car and how we've done that so you'll see more and we'll talk much more openly about that between men and the unveil.

Then we'll start taking orders later on in the year to the end of the year and then beyond that I guess it was shortly after that so that's really the.

Somebody said the rideway 27 yeah it's going to be late yeah it's probably early early 27 will be a good good plan.

Where will you launch a car in the UK or America to be nice not decided yet actually I've got a series of very exciting meetings tomorrow where I'm going to have a whole series of ideas and things pitch status.

Yes but we're now we're obviously we're now turning our attention to the fact that you know we're going to launch the car in six months time and what's the best way to do it so yeah that's being actively worked on now and I guess asked me in a month time I'll have a much much better answer for you.

What's the price guidance 100 to 150 this is for the first model broadly I think the central gravity of the UK for example is going to be about 117 120 something like that.

And it will be possible yeah there will be then but that's the center of gravity for the average weighted average as we would call it but yeah the design vision will be closer to 150 plus which is that's the most probably the most inclusive you know has the has the highest output in terms of power has the you know a very bespoke into design and then definitely in terms of the course of the vehicles life cycle so elements like bespoke and enabling clients ability to really.

Personalize particularly the interior of the car is it is going to be a big part of the vehicle so all of those things probably will raise the selling price up but if we if we want to ground it.

We see that you know as we always have done we think there's a there's a bit of white space.

So between you know the top end of premium tends to go up to about 110 115 something like that.

And then you don't go on to the sort of over luxury there was always the you know the Lamborghini is the bentos etc and they really don't do anything below 250 to 80 and that's that's quite big space and I think traditionally if you go back and look in our.

Over our past we've had vehicles that perhaps had the either the looks or the design or perhaps some of the performance of those those latter cars but at the price point of the former cars.

Sure and that's that's kind of a space that aligns traditionally well it is yeah and I think it's you know we quite often you know in terms of how you should move forward I think I think looking back and really understanding and this is it's a good analogy.

Whether it's one of your questions or not Steve it's a really important because.

A lot's been made of okay you know from now talking about your heritage in your history celebrating our 90th year but any brand really needs to understand that past you know what we've never wanted to do here is.

Okay are the types amazing or the extra let's just make another one of those and try and make it 21st century that's.

We don't think that's the right thing to do we actually don't think it's the in the DNA of Jaguar of you know and if you think about.

You know when we move from the type to the XGS which is probably the spiritual successor of that car.

It's nothing like it didn't try it was it was bold it was confident to say well actually this is what.

A two-seater duty should look like from Jaguar and this is what we do so.

The kind of DNA of Jaguar is that sense of continually inventing but reinventing with a consistent DNA running through about actually it is about it should be about dramatic proportions.

You know it should be about a car that doesn't look like lots of other things on the road so we shouldn't ape either what we've done historically or we shouldn't be.

Aping what other people are doing in the world today and I guess.

I certainly think having read a lot of the commentary matters the one thing you absolutely can say about type zero zero is it doesn't look like anything else on the road and that's a great place to start for Jaguar do you do you read the commentary.

I read some. Surely you just you must have dialed out 18 months ago.

No I can't read now I try to keep up to be I think what I what I teach myself not to do Steve is go on to the comments section because that quite often can be a dark place.

But no it's important you know and to understand the flavor of okay what are people thinking because you know the press into a certain extent will both influence.

And be a a barometer of what our clients will be thinking so you know one of the one of my key learnings post the initial launch a year ago now it's amazing to get.

It's like a lot longer is we we really probably didn't spend enough time explaining the why.

Why has Jaguar changed why you change like this how does it link in a does it link to your history how does it link to your history.

And I think that's something I certainly personally spent a lot of time investing my time into and to just really just taking people through that narrative whether it's.

You know we've done a series of of sort of exhibitions of the vehicle taking its places like the Montre car week or to good word or yeah we're an exhibition in Paris in Munich.

And and that's that's what I spend most of my time doing is then just explaining well why does it look like then when you lay out and just kind of.

Give people you need to give them you don't need to give them an hour long TED talk you can give them a short most people can I go okay I get that I understand.

And you know so to never understand you know so never underestimate the why and the importance of the why.

And I guess if you just close your ears to everything that's been written I suspect you might miss that you want.

So yeah I do try and keep in touch.

I hope I admire you for sticking with it sticking with it yeah yeah tell me about we one time when we just we talked before you you said there was a very singular special naming policy you know you've done you've done a lot of thinking about it and you reach some conclusion.

What progress when can you tell me if you can't tell me when will you tell me and can you give me an idea of the the direction of the thinking for a car like this.

Yeah well I guess I would say I'm naming of the concept car I guess is directional and we're not I mean this is this is what I love about our relationships we're bringing you in we're going to show you the car we're going to drive you the car.

So we're going to show you loads of things we're not done before and actually what you want me to talk to you about is stuff that we're not going to talk to you about.

So I'm going to say be in the moment Steve just enjoy the vehicle that we're showing you today and yeah we'll naming probably will be I guess probably early part of next year first quarter next year we'll talk about the naming but I guess we've been we've given a reasonable hint.

But the logic behind time zero zero is I guess it's worth unpacking a little bit is you know the word type has a huge association any jaguar any any car enthusiast knows that it's absolutely a word that's that's really important to our history and heritage but zero zero is is kind of indicating a reset.

So yes it's it's reflecting and honoring what's come before but it's trying to do so in a very forward thinking way and actually for me that's a good little analogy of the entire Jaguar program is if we can do those two things if we can constantly look forward but also do that with an understanding and a respect from our history then actually that's the most appropriate way.

Tell me who's going to be a Jaguar dealer there are in the olden days you know a couple of years ago there were a Jaguar dealer was most times a land over dealer as well there are these pretty significant Taj Mahal dealerships around the country what what's that going to be like how has that because some of those are going to not be Jaguar dealer.

Correct so what's the proportion it's I would think about 20 but let probably around 20 maybe a little bit less percent so I mean that's you know the the UK network for Jaguar as an example was them was just done with just under 100 retailers and we think we're only around 20% of that moving forward now I guess the good thing is is we've got we've got other brands in the stable we've got Range Rover we've got Defender we're going to we're going to do.

Re-invention on discovery so our responsibility to those retailers is to make sure that actually we've got on our throughput we've got you know we've got new product coming through that ensures that actually that you know that their business is a sustainable but for Jaguar with the volumes that we're aspiring to in this market and we've got a very similar story in Europe and it's like it's less you know I guess in principle the same story in the US with a with a lower volumes and a high price point you you don't need the same level of distribution.

You don't want lots and lots of retailers selling very few cars I'd much rather a smaller number of retailers have a decent throughput of cars because then in a retail environment it becomes meaningful to their bottom line so it gets focus and actually you get a degree of specialism just having somebody who wants every three months sells a Jaguar is not a good key to having a great Jaguar experience and that's meant that we've had to make some difficult decisions and actually interestingly though those are actually made on my old watch when I was running the car.

I was running the UK business so all of that sensor and what the UK network would look like and why at least I had the benefit of actually having that conversation with each and every one of the UK investors so they all clearly understand they know where it's going to be and yeah we're in the process now of engaging and motivating and educating their staff actually not just the 20% or so but ideally we want the whole of the stuff to at least understand so if somebody walked into

the JLR retailer and is now without Jaguar somebody could at least talk at a super high level about okay this is what it is and if you want to find out more this is where you go.

What we don't want anybody to say was nothing to do with me that's really important to us.

How do you choose 20 how do you choose one in five.

Largely I guess you know it's geography so we know that well we believe that the buyer of this vehicle is more likely to be centered around metro areas rather than rural areas and I guess then you overlay okay the you know where do we think the client base is going to be we need to be close to them and also we need to make sure that we are we believe that those you know

let's just say you had a in one particular location you had a choice of two retailers wouldn't make a difference and if we felt one retailer was better at handling clients at more elevated price point gave you better level of customer experience or something like that then then that's part of what you favor but the first point of course is okay where do we need to be from a geographic point of view and there weren't too many calls we had to make.

Do talking heritage again what will you do with it will you will you will you will it be prominent in the in the launch activity or will it just be in the background I mean I think you've made the points quite well very well when we we've debated this we debated this for Miami and actually if you've spent time in Miami you know there wasn't there was an e type in one of the one of the exhibitions that we have.

For example so to say actually you know they won't be but when you're launching a vehicle I think you really need to have the focus on that vehicle example when we unveil it the event am I envision it's going to be at a at a venue that's absolutely steeped in Jaguar's history probably not but but does our heritage in our history have a have an important piece in in the whole marketing strategy it course it does.

It's a lot of philosophical. Yeah what is I mean if you turn the question around a different way and say right okay we've got all of these incredibly fast moving very impressive Evie brands coming from China.

You know what is the most tangible thing that differentiates our brand from all of them got it and there's a point where it seems to me that where you're above the top of premium as it were

and perhaps below super ultra luxury. There's a point where people stop having model levels and just just offer a lot of different bespoke opportunities to people where will you be when you have model strata or will you have will you just be offering people opportunities to to personalize their cars.

I think probably we will a little bit of both but we will lead more it what we don't see it as being the sort of premium model of you have a HSC and SE and yeah you know and generally quite we want to have a really clean simple product range.

But there will be slight differences but the we will lean more towards that luxury position I think in terms of the differences then we will premium but there will be there will be some difference between them but not as great as you'd expect to see where you've got our raft of different

trim levels and specs that's not what we think is needed in the luxury space associated with further down the market.

Yeah I mean it's got its place and it's really important and you know certainly at times in my career those things have been super important but I don't think they're as important for Jacker here.

If I ask you that you know whether you're confident about the future of this car you will tell me that you are because what else could you say but there is an element of there's a large element of risk isn't there

because very few companies have stopped producing your car and started up with something different in every single aspect.

Do you think about the risk? What's your attitude to the risk?

Yeah I think yeah I mean in my job I guess ultimately you know I've got we've got incredible designers we've got incredible engineers but it comes together in terms of does it all make sense financially.

I guess that's probably the most important and how do we position the brand and how we make sure that this becomes a viable commercial entity.

So you know that that sensitivity the balance is never far from my thoughts but you you can't carry it too heavily you can't carry it too lightly either.

Do you want to say I'm more what really occupies my mind more is that sense around we are laying the foundations for the next 90 years of Jacker's history and this is a really pivotal point in its history

and it's really important that we make and we take a positive step towards reestablishing it as a hugely desirable aspirational brand that when you see it it kind of stirs emotions it's known for those things and ultimately it's got to be additive to the JLR enterprise.

Yeah but that's that's the balance that we've got to cover and if you if you word about it too much you probably make no decisions and I guess we need to be wary I think we've got a good balance of what we think is sensible to invest in the platform and the product in the brand and similarly you also then say well you shouldn't scrimp on these things because you're not going to save yourself you're not going to save your way to salvation if you've already invested this in a platform but it's about getting those balance rights and that's I guess that's something we lead into every day.

You'll be the final thing you you'll be in the history books and I mean this is the this is the kind of biggest thing that's happened to Jagger in 90 years isn't it so do you ever think about what people will make of you when they look back 20 or 30 years.

I do I never thought of it like that I think it's an important point in our history for the reason I said it's important we're laying the foundations for the next 90 years I don't I think if you look back I suspect there are lots of several moments in Jaguar's history.

And people in my position or whatever else took that so I'm not sure I necessarily have thought about it being the most important and I guess no I'm not giving it a thought maybe you've planted a seed maybe maybe I should think of it I haven't been thinking you know I haven't genuinely it's not the way I'm white I'm you know I'm yeah it's too much to do now I suppose there's also not why I'm here you know I'm here not about my I'm not here because of a legacy I want to have I'm here because of the legacy I want Jagger to have.

Yeah understood. Rodin Glover thank you very much for talking to speak always a pleasure thank you.

So that's Steve and Rodin interesting stuff.

Yeah I don't know if you could detect it but there's a there's a feeling of relief in that man's voice because he's he has taken a lot of lack and he's been equal to it I would say and and but I feel able to start believing what they're telling us.

Because the car's so good yeah it is I was this is really going out on a limb that is I would say just from the ride from 20 minute ride with Matt Becker superb driver I would say it was the all round it was one of the best cars I've ever been in in my life.

Chad with Matt coming up in part two before we go to a commercial break which is basically me anyway Steve.

Was there any chat about Jeremy Governe last week because we've seen a release since the initial reports that he had left that some things are not quite as.

Yeah what's going on there's about four there's about four domain pieces of information one is MacGovern's own view I can't tell you how I got this but I got it is that so far much of what's been said is fake news that's his view.

The company has has said that they haven't dismissed him but they've also refused to confirm or deny that he's left the company so we don't know whether he's still an employee.

And another employee who possibly said a bit too much reckon that he wouldn't be around.

Before next year which wasn't which a couple of weeks ago was quite a mouthful it's not so much now but right.

But I mean it does seem that there's some sort of parting and that they're negotiating over exactly how that parting would proceed.

Well let's take a short commercial break to tell you about our sponsors Anderson Evie and the 5,000 mile offer that they have at the moment if you buy one of their charges you can claim 5,000 free miles with intelligent doctors go Anderson dash Evie dot com.

And I like is that is the advice they give you I haven't taken it but I fully intend to it's one of my new years resolutions is ring up and say which which electricity provider should I be using where I live.

It's called concierge service if you bring them up they will look after you all the way through because I've got a feeling I'm chucking money away by the handful.

Yes.

So what's on charge at the moment is there anything on charge outside its shape properly.

Well the Renault 5 gets collected tomorrow so that's to say Tuesday the day before this goes out very sad day replaced by a Ford Capri a entirely blameless and in perfectly enjoyable car very big.

Easy to to to own as it were because it's got a 300 mile range which allows you to pretty much set and forget doesn't it's it's a it's a great car it's just the only controversial aspect of it is is the badge and because it's blue and you can't see the badges very much people don't even know what it is so interesting.

So you don't stop it every every stoplight and you have some bloke leering at you so that's not a capri actually there have been the name capri has been used four times now bet you the complainers only know of one previous.

I'm sure yeah I believe it yeah there will be a bit more about the Renault 5 and a Ford connection to it on this podcast in two weeks time.

December 31st so what's going to happen this is still the midpoint commercial break Steve so what's going to happen is that this podcast is now next week is our.

lengthy interview Christmas special which Steve did with Pat Simmons who is the Cadillac technical consultant but I think it's in all but name it's technical director yeah for the new formula one team and then on December 31st

there is a bit of chat with me and Steve but also with his grace the Duke of Richmond who runs everything good wood yeah which we recorded last week yeah it was good fun wasn't it good yeah it's funny you know you what was into that place and it's it's rather palatial isn't that you think.

God this is a this is all a bit above my station and then Audi comes sits down and chats like a another car enthusiast yeah yeah yeah incredibly charming how I spent in his company so that will be on the 31st and then Steve and I will return with a normal my weekend cars on Wednesday the 7th of January if that is the fact of the day of the Wednesday.

That first week back so lots to come in our sort of Christmas specials over the next couple of weeks and I am going to prize into that I think at some point an interview.

With the Lotus chief designer oh yes Russell car you met him the other day yeah I spoke to him the other day I've just got to just go through it was in a quite a noisy establishment so I'm just going to make sure that it's listenable but well I got a nice note from him I was in there but he he wrote to me saying I had a really good chat with Matt so he and sending us both Christmas greeting so that's very very I think he at least enjoyed it even if there were a few echoes yeah.

Lawrence Coleman writes AutoCart at haymarket.com you can do to say well he's replying to a couple of other letters we've had recently because we got the I think Martin Morris wrote to say he bought a Ferrari late in life and another couple of people have written together for me he's about my age later in life yes yeah late middle age let's call it and a couple of other readers wrote in to say don't let them get you down Martin KBO.

So Terrence Coleman says at risk of turning Altgar into an older publication let me follow up on previous readers as senior senior drivers as an 80 year old I run a Mercedes C63 AMG estate with a last of the 6.2 liter engines has to be an estate as my wife needs shopping and family friends trips to Italy with a return leg being heavily laden my livestream purchase was a V8 Mustang but getting elderly relatives and friends into an out of the rear seats was somewhat problematic.

The C63 is it's more of a cue car than some others so quite right to Terrence I think that's the I happen to be looking at one of them the other day just industry but not started it drove away I thought what a fine car to own yeah and blameless to you know you can bet your life it'll probably cost a bit to service but you know you would you would back it's reliability wouldn't you yeah but we've had a couple of letters about mobility and people saying cracky I see people who can't

walk very well but then get into cars and off they go and yeah I was thought about living out in the sticks where I do I think and well I'll just live here until I can't drive anymore but actually the chances are I will not be able to walk before I can't drive yeah I just but I saw my folks the other day and they said they were down near the doctor surgery and this old lady came out and it must have taken a 10 minutes to walk to you know to walk across the car park hunchback couldn't you know so so

unsteady on a feet jumped in the car drove off yeah you think actually it is it's not the it's not the walk in that you can't do at the end is it's not the driving that you can't do it's the walk in that you can't yeah also isn't the danger is in the

the perception of distance and the and the sort of balance and things like that isn't it I think yeah I don't know but we'd be interesting to know it's not a thing you don't

get I avoid it like the plague you might take my license away yeah I went to on a not unrelated sort of know I went to Palm Springs Air Museum the other day as you do and they have an F117A stealth bomber right in there in a hangar and I was chatting to one of the volunteers who I think was working at some point must have worked ground crew on these stealth echo I'm an amazing to see yeah

launch out with him and he said well actually sometimes we were going to one of the air bases in the middle of the states over to the Middle East those flights might be 18 hours and there's constant air to every fueling going on because they never like to be more than

a quarter down through the tank because you've always got to think well where can I go if I get a problem yeah where can I divert to so they tend to sort of you know keep top up on the fuel he said but some of those flights could be at the end of them

the pilots would land after 18 hours and the ground crew would go out to them and effectively have to lift the pilot out of the cockpit because they've just gone so numb having sat in an aircraft for that long yeah

but yet you can still operate a machine like that even if you can't get up and walk so I mean driving around in a Ford Fiesta if you've got a walking stick and big eyes might be no problem yeah I agree we're just going to let's make that the official resolution of this pod

let's join you and Matt Becker shall we for the chat which you had after you've been around in the what did they call it off the what did they what did they refer because I know they haven't named it yet but are they

still calling it type zero zero in when they're talking to you are was in was not type zero zero it was actually a complete a dynamically complete mule so it was still covered in min bags and black and white nonsense and all that yeah but underneath it was a it was a car

so no more than 5% short of what the buyer will get in 27 early 27 including suspension

cheering suspension tuning software they're all being updated you know how they they polish these things because they're all software anyway so they think you can you can iterate and iterate

and yeah he confidently expected improvements but he said they're not the sort of improvements that will that would hit you over the head as a passenger you know the car was he he was quite content to say that this is the car we want to build

well here is Steve talking to Matt Becker hello Steve properly here I have just been around the test track the gate and test track with this man here Matt Becker who is dynamics chief you'll tell me the proper title

vehicle engineer director okay and and we've traveled at speeds up to 140 miles an hour and it felt some pretty urgent acceleration but the thing that's really impressive about this car far more impressive than any EV I've ever been in

I can say is the refinement the rolling comfort and we're here so that he can explain exactly why it's like that why is this car so quiet at particularly off the road

I mean it starts with the structure of the car is an extremely stiff structure so what we call the bracket is is is a good starting point the bracket being the bracket be in the structure of the car so so all of the inputs are going to that structure

absorbed there's obviously a lot of focus gone into you know this is a true GT car so it has it can travel long distance so what we really wanted to do is add the level of

composure but also isolation you can see some of the services we when we left the design studio went out towards the proving ground there's some fairly severe broken so it's roasting wouldn't it yeah

and what we really wanted is to make sure the isolate all of those we can from the occupant but still have the feeling that the driver needs which unfortunately you didn't get today because you didn't get to drive

I was happy to be driven but you get all those inputs you know you can feel what's going on but you're not bothered it by because of the isolation it's so good

right well there there are two things that that come up out of that one is the suspension system which I gather is a three chamber air suspension

so it adjust its own rate yeah according to speed and load of you yeah exactly but these tires are amazingly low profile for the refinement yeah

so so the car you were on or even was on a 23 inch all season tire so it's a 255 35 23 front tire no 295 30 23 rear tire so you can imagine that the actual profile height of the tire is very low

but you still you didn't feel that there was a lack of isolation in the car which is really important this car that city is actually the summer tire

and that summer tire which you didn't get experienced today has even higher lateral capacity than what would it be more refined even still

yeah the refinement is very similar it's not too different between the all season and the and the summer tire because when we tune and develop the car we make sure that either tire option will work on the car

we don't do separate tunes for different tires they both have to work and you've got a big thing about composure about heave being far better than pitch

yeah so the thing how do you do that so the thing I've always learned and working with the team is what we always want is if you take a center line of a car that almost must breathe

up and down along the center this is a this is a term that comes from way back to this can make them from Norfolk together but you want the car to breathe but you also want the

you don't want a car that breeze like that it must move together so the front and rear of the car must go up and down either side of a center line

but also what you want is when the car rolls you want a roll axis to be along the center line of the car you don't want a diagonal roll axis

who's all that does is when you steer it falls on to the rear yes another thing that's really critical on cars like this is to make sure pitch under acceleration

that you control the car is as because obviously a lot of performance a lot of torque lots of power but what you want is that actually pitch under acceleration

is well managed as well so you don't want pitch and then you want dive as well so you must make sure that we control the compression input of the rear

but also the amount of rebound we get so the air suspension is controlling that it's a match between spring rates and also damping as well

so we have some logic in the car that recognizes the rate of acceleration therefore how much more damping does it add to the car to rest the pitch

and if you think about how you have to cohesively blend all those things together that's the trick of the team to do that and harmonize it

but as I said one of the most important things of this car is the heave motion control nice primary control secondary road isolation as you felt today

I mean we went on some pretty severe terrible right so I don't want to I don't ever want to go on those roads in another car now because I'll be exploring

and on top of that we took you on to the what we call the emission circuit which is a high speed circuit and we sat at 120, 130 miles per hour one hand on the wheel

you can do lane changes everything's very comfortable and now we get that is a blend between what steer ratio we chose for the car is a reasonably fast ratio but how you manage that ratio with the rear steer

so the rear steer will get the right the this is a kind of classic rear steer that steers with the car for stability and against the car for agility

exactly so we go in phase on out of phase so so at low speeds you imagine if you turn and left the rear steer turns right so basically shortens the turn and circle

and then at a given speed we will then switch the phasing of the rear steer to give you stability at higher speed as well

and that's how you get the feeling of agility a car that shrinks around you but then stability as the speed increases

the your center position of the car should go rearwards and then you have this feeling of stability on that speed

but at low speed it's with you or just ahead of you is it yes I mean generally what we're trying to do with the car is certainly at low speed and country lane speeds

we want the car so the your center position so is is basically your your butt is so it's in the center of the car

so the car rotates around you but as you said as the speed increases we need to lengthen that to make the car feel more stable

so you spend your life one developing cars but also benchmarking against other people's cars

all nonsense aside forget who pays you how good is it it's mega it's really really good I'm so impressed with you picked up on immediately

you said I can't believe the level of isolation and composure the car has and we won't even go in at speed

we just went over the bridge towards the preview ground well it's the low speed control to me I just found it so impressive

it is yeah and it's a car you want to drive long distance in because you just feel relaxed in it

and you didn't get to experience any of the other modes that we have in the car which later later dates we will do that

as we can then start to turn the car up i.e. we can make it even more engaging

fantastic thanks very much Matt problem

so that was Matt Becker thanks for joining us Matthew on the pod thanks for that Steven

yeah mate it was one of the one of the best things I've done for many a year to be true

how are you feeling about trailer? well I I get what they're trying to do

I think they've traveled a very long way with this car and it is a good car and I've also

by hawker by croxena bit of it without quite so much disguising on it and my own view is it is kind of look great

completely different I mean extraordinary thing very low and four point whatever I said four point four four point three long

so long that's five point three long yeah longer than or as long as a long S class yeah

so I but I think people are going to buy it I don't know about the two models that follow

they're supposed to be in a state isn't there then and then are and then a limo god knows how big the limo is going to be cool

but I do think they're on the right track and but the the number of steps still ahead

to get it into to manufacture it to manufacture it well to set up the deal in network which is roughly

20% the size of the old Jaguar deal in network to convince all the skeptics you know to get one

underneath the backside of the old president trump the old orange bloke and then you know just

change minds is going to be quite a job but they know that but my mind was changed I was pretty

skeptical just because of what the hell it looked like in disguise but when you're in the car there

is no putting aside the fact that it's fantastic on the road and any noise because they have a new

CO recently to yeah mr. Balagy any any noise that a change of direction or they are no everybody the point

that everybody keeps making including rod and glove are in the interview was it was that

Balagy is part of has been part of the tata the reimagined plan since 2020 and he's signed fully

signed up to it I think his job is to expedite and concentrate minds and possibly sharpen up the

economics and make sure things are done but I don't think there's anything that he's going to do

that undermines what's done or what the direction of the project yeah so normally we talk our respective

columns not much more to say except I was reading in yours the other day there is a thousand and six

horsepower uasa motor that only weighs what twelve and a half kilos or something yeah did you go

did you go up and see them no no no it's just reading the press release it's always just an extraordinary

it seemed to me that I I looked up the ba loud cabin baggage and you're allowed 25 kilograms to go

on your own and one of these motors makes it weighs half as much as your as your holiday luggage

unbelievable and yet and they their next stop is going to be wheel motors you know who motors in

wheels cars are the the actual motive power is exported outside the chassis it just drives the wheels

and provides a braking and that just seems such an amazing development to me I just think

cars are going to be very very different the packaging you know the obviously the capability yeah

but the thing I found myself wondering is that if something that's half of your ba cabin baggage is

can produce a thousand horsepower what about the the 150 you need for around five I mean that'll

fit in a glove box won't it yeah I remember seeing I think on a Mercedes Formula One car so that

was a long but it was a long time ago 2015 14 15 and they had a curse the you know the kinetic

energy recovery motor on that I want to say it was a I'm maybe getting the numbers wrong I want

to I want to say I saw a motor that was about a hundred and something was about and it was about

the size of my fist and you think crikey that in the back wheel of a motorcycle would be something

but that in one in each wheel each side of something like a catering yeah it would be because

that's not that heavy and if it means you can reduce the brake size I think you probably

would have to have some kind of mechanical brake because if the battery is full then you can't

do any regeneration no so you would probably have to have a mechanical brake of some kind as well

but I mean two of that size that changes that changes it's a it's game changing levels of

performance I think it puts a lie to the there are various people who say well you know I'm

afraid the good old days are gone and you know the loveliness of piston rings and you know small

in bearings and all that kind of thing are gone but it's a whole new interesting year to me yeah

yeah it's a battery we're only just learning about different types of batteries on what they can do

yeah I was kind of embarrassing talking to the other day but they were speaking to somebody in

the industry who was like oh we're not going to bother with solid state batteries but I can't

remember who that was or why they said it and how they said it but it seemed to me that I don't

know halving the weight of batteries would be quite a good thing yes still yeah so but I can't

maybe it's a cost I don't know but it's taken a long time hasn't it but there's a there's no

unanimity isn't it because a Nissan was saying well we'll have it going by 27 yeah yeah yeah yeah

but yeah who knows and then the senior bought from the EU last week said that they were going to

wind back the 2035 ice combustion ban as well so amazing and then the story came out and said they

the in this country that the one they introduced for 2030 they were they were scrapped if they

was a gunner was a gunner if for 2030 if they get elected in 29 which is a possibility because

they're doing about 15% of it so it's still a bit so it's um if you are trying to run a car

company this stuff is not helpful is it no certainly not certainly not I don't anyway well

so I keep in thinking about the unwinding I mean it's all very well to say we're killing the

EV mandate but look at all the work that's gone into you know all the cows all the documents all

the circularization all the you know you've got to you've got to undo all that stuff at cost of

millions I believe yeah the sense the more sensible thing as a lot of engineers will probably say

is you just you don't tell people how to get somewhere you tell them where they've got to go

and then let them work it out yep and that's so obvious isn't it it's just so obviously I'm not

even an engineer I can see why it's you over there nor am I anymore mate it's been a long time

it's 30 years since I looked at a blinking engineering document of any sort just show some piece of

paper mate that's all you want to do yeah okay uh listen a thank you for joining us it only

falls to me to say Stephen I will be back this time next week with a Christmas special episode

between now and then what do we have we've got a YouTube video which shows that jaguar concept in

still disguised form but let's disguised moving it's actually prototype rather than concept sorry

but it's yeah there are I haven't seen the film but I'm hoping that it'll you know how you can

look at vid and you can often see whether a cow is good you know you follow something on the

I know I don't yeah I don't think there's b-roll of it in motion I think there's only stills

pictures of it yeah so but yeah but there's you chatting to Matt and the the car in the background

but then there are some stills yeah there's some stills pictures at least so we'll see that but yeah

you're right it would be really helpful to just see a cornering yeah you could and just how it

coats with some bumps and stuff there's no noise yet he says they're they're still making a decision

I mean there are a few words and things going on but almost nothing okay that's interesting

but boy yeah and then what else we have there'll be a problem anyway yes that video goes up

now over the next couple of days there will be a Ferrari and Malfi review video which is

Ilya Verprey our rotester who drove that last week where does where does Russell car feed

Russell car will be in a podcast either and I haven't it depends who's got time to edit it

basically right but that will either be this coming Saturday the 20th yes or in between

Christmas and New Year or the second third of January whatever it would be third of January

it's going to be an action packed slot well it is an action packed slot yeah and I what I'm

conscious is that the Christmas issue is Christmas episode is quite a long one

and I and putting somebody else in the middle of that the the listener will have to listen to a lot

of episodes yeah yeah so I think probably I'm going to try and get edited for three days time

so Russell will be will be out it's um it's a short sweep sort of 15 20 minute I think we chat

but but he's not sure isn't he yeah very much so yeah because we have to ask the question

what's going on with Hathel because last we heard there's some redundancy

large question mark last question marks over the over the place but I was also interested to know

how it how it works because just in terms of you know where do you who designs who's drawing

what where yes when it comes to designing does he answer that yeah yeah yeah yeah that's really

about how I haven't heard it so I'll notice his place within the group and that it has because we've

I don't think Lotus has confirmed or announced it yet but we've run the story that

there will be plug-in hybrid variants of the two big EVs and of course they just have access

to stuff within the Geely group but they can put their own tuning and slant and stuff on

kit from elsewhere so which I think is useful for them because the

didn't they want to make 30,000 a year of those two big EVs and they're coming up very short of

that very short yeah very very short of that anyway that will be in the next week or two

in a meantime thanks to our sponsor Anderson British made designed

nice people obviously your service yeah very very good they're very very good people

anacentashiv.com for all your requirements on that front and you can write to us

autocom.com and one more address you can find the autocom archive and subscribe to new issues

at the magazineshop.com

good for a slash auto car if you really need to the magazineshop.com you'll find it

thanks mate yeah right see you next week

hey what's up

nada abuelita y abulví con las compras

como conseguiste todo tan rápido

fácil fui a Fred Meyer tienen de todo y a muy buen precio

el queso cotija harina masa clavos

check en Fred Meyer consigues sus productos de calidad para las recetas familiares de estas

fiestas aprecios bajos Fred Meyer fresh para todos

selecciona entre una gran variedad de cupones digitales y utiliza los hasta 5 veces en una transacción

miren nuestro app para detalles Fred Meyer fresh for everyone

ad Sierra discovered top workout gear at incredible prices which might lead to another discovery

your headphones haven't been connected this whole time awkward discover top brands

at unexpectedly low prices Sierra let's get moving

acas powers the world's best podcast

Here's a show that we recommend

this season on the dream

supplies are being repeated by nurses who run out in the middle of the night and purchase

diapers but a hospital is still charging as if they still have these items

we are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show

it's a spinning plate analogy second that you stop spinning those plates

that crashes so you can never stop working

the dream season four comes out you weekly starting monday january 20th

acas helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere acas.com

Jaguar special: we ride in prototype 'Type 00'; interview bosses

About this episode

Renault Clio

tire warning light

Lotus

Concept Zero

production car

prototype

body and white facility

dynamic character

architecture

powertrain

Lamborghini

Type Zero

concept car

Jaguar

Range Rover

Defender

Ford Capri

Renault 5

Formula One team

Cadillac

Mercedes C63 AMG estate

bracket

isolation

low profile tires

all-season tire

summer tire

pitch

rear steer

mechanical brake

piston rings

2035 ICE combustion ban

Ferrari

plug-in hybrid

Geely Group

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from My week in cars: the Autocar podcast