James Courtney | Part 1 - cut throat karting & losing a good mate

MUSIC

A Listener production.

I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust,

and this is Rusty's Garage.

I'm recording these intros in the home studio

as a cyclone approaches.

That's a true story, so although it's pretty well soundproofed

and thankfully the cyclone has been downgraded a little,

you may hear the wind outside.

The interview itself I did in the lead-up

to the shortened tow-pore supercars round last weekend.

Martin Collins, who's a friend and former team boss at Team Kiwi,

among other management roles in the sport,

has very kindly let me use his office in Rusty's Garage.

One piece of memorabilia in here

quickly caught my guest's attention,

and we'll talk about that later.

Little note of thanks to my long-term friend and colleague

at Listener, Mark Howard, from the famous Howie Games pod.

James Courtney spoke with him at length back in 2017,

and he opened up on living with hyperactivity,

something that I didn't know about.

He expands on that a bit in this latest chat with me here,

because he's learnt a lot in the almost decades

in speaking with Howie.

At times, JC might laugh about things that he went through

while learning to cope with it.

Don't take that the wrong way.

It's an almost self-deprecating way that he accepts it,

owns it, and powers on.

That is a theme of both parts of this feature app.

It is a great takeaway for young racers who are listening.

Don't let things like that stop you.

Just look at the success that James has had.

Two karting world titles.

He was British Formula Four champion,

and that is a very respected, famous championship or class,

and he did that at the turn of the century,

breaking a record at the time for most wins in a season.

He drove for Jaguar's Junior F3 team and won on debut.

He was test driver for the Jag F1 team,

and he talks in the pod here in incredible detail

about a testing crash at Monza at a time

when he was very much on the radar of teams in the F1 paddock.

We also talk a little about his success in Japan,

some other motorsport career or driving options

that aren't widely known, the highs and lows of supercars,

selling one of the best houses on the Gold Coast

that belonged to the former Zara of the sport, Tony Cochran.

And thanks to the head of broadcast

for the next Gen-NZ championship that I work on,

a deal that nearly saw him move into TV much earlier

before his stint with the Blanchard racing team.

Thank you to David Tonaklet for that little bit of intel there.

Thanks also to the supercars TV crew,

Nathan, Briney and more,

for helping us find a couple of hours in the schedule

in the lead-up to Topor so that we could record this chat.

For regulars to the pod, after you've listened,

I reckon you'll agree this is up there

with some of the best eps that we've ever done.

Thank you to JC for that. Hope you enjoy it.

Bonjour, Anor.

That's exactly what my school teacher used to call me.

Tell me the backstory to this.

Was it someone saying that you needed a more Euro-sounding name

for the karting days, or when you were heading overseas?

Where did this... And if I got that right,

is it Giovanni Cortini or something like that?

That's exactly what they said.

They said that to be a racing driver, you need a flash name,

and he thought James Courtney was pretty boring.

Because at the time, I was going to live in Europe or in Italy.

So he said, oh, you got to call yourself Giovanni Cortini.

Did it stick a bit?

No, only with him. He was the only person.

And you remembered it.

I love that. I love that.

We've jumped forward in the timeline.

Let's come back a little step.

Your dad was a chippy-by-trade,

but the family had a carpet-laying business, didn't they?

And he sort of, I think, enjoyed the notion of tinkering,

whatever it was, bikes, carts or whatever.

And at about age seven or eight, maybe you go to Lithgow,

where I've commentated over time.

And was it like a come-and-try day or something?

What was it?

Yeah, so my dad actually raced first.

Did he?

Yeah, so he actually won two national championships.

So he was good.

I shouldn't remember that. Sorry, yes.

No, no, no, I don't tell it

because I don't want anyone to know that he was good.

Sorry, dad.

But no, he won two national championships

in the top class, which was pretty cool.

But yeah, I was that little kid, annoying the crap out of him

and friends and everything to have a go.

And we eventually went up to Lithgow and had this,

there was an old clapped-out thing.

I think Winnebottom drove the thing at the same time,

and Caruso.

And it was like, it was called a track-up.

And it had adjustable pedals and whacked the pedals

all the way back.

And I remember the first time, like it was yesterday.

Your age seven or eight, he said, aren't you?

Yeah, and my dad, I remember looking at,

I had this little yellow open face

helmet on with goggles.

And it was freezing because it was Lithgow.

And I remember my dad running around the track beside me.

Me telling me what to do.

So he's obviously a bit of it.

But yeah, I remember him gradually, like that first time,

like yelling at me, not yelling,

but running, telling me instructions, what to do.

So that's how it started.

By the end of the day, it obviously got a little bit faster.

And we're off, and I fell in love.

And I annoyed dad that much that, and then,

I think he won a race and won a cut.

Then I got, there was an arrow, an old little arrow.

Maybe it was a Demon X-8, I can't remember what,

I think, I don't know if that was a brand or whatever,

but I remember it having Demon X-8 on it.

And that was too big.

And then they got me a little, a card, a Dino Mini,

and then I was off, I was gone.

So, and then dad realized, I think that he,

we both couldn't do it.

And as dads do, as I'll do now for mine,

you sort of sacrifice your own fun to enjoy it for your kids.

So then dad and I went on this journey together.

I love that.

There is a little backstory here.

You enjoyed soccer to begin with,

but you got a little too much.

You got in a bit of trouble, didn't you,

seeking the limelight?

Is this true?

I may have liked to have played every role of the team,

so I did get asked not to play anymore,

but yeah, I was, who would have thought, a glory hunter.

So I'm not much of a, I mean, like racing's a team sport,

but it's very much individual as well once you're out there,

but yeah, the soccer story was short lived.

I think the story goes something along the lines

of tackling your own team in order to score the goal

or something along those lines.

Yeah, it was probably a home goal.

I didn't care, I just wanted to run around.

Come forward a step.

It clicks straight away in a motor racing sense for you,

and I think there's a drive in order to kind of get

a sign off on your license,

and you may have either in that race

or the first official race kept the trophy.

You finished on the podium that day

and kept the trophy, is that right?

Yeah, I still got it at home.

It was like a little green sort of bit of perspex

with a little emblem on it and combined districts.

So yeah, that was my, I think it was at the end

of that come to try day.

You had like a little run and I ended up getting a trophy,

so yeah, it was pretty good from the start.

I love that.

You have a saying too, mate.

Mark Howard and I both work for the same podnet work

in Listener, and I know you spoke with him back prior

to the pandemic, beautiful chat that.

And you used a line with him,

and it was something along the lines of,

I don't want to be, I'm gonna be.

And I love that.

From a very young age, you were sort of transfixed

on the notion of Formula One, you loved it,

and Center, things like this, mate.

And it wasn't necessarily just like a dream.

It was more like, I forget school, whatever,

I want to pursue that.

Mate, it was happening.

I was, I told myself, like even down in school

when I was driving, I should have been doing schoolwork,

but I was designing my helmet.

And I left, if you know my helmets,

that's sort of a band on the top,

which I left in the front.

That was because I was gonna have,

it's not allowed to now, Marlboro,

because everyone had Marlboro sponsorship,

as you can see behind me.

So I had, I left space on it,

because I was gonna be a McLaren driver,

I was gonna win World Championships,

and I was gonna be sponsored by Marlboro.

So I didn't just want to get to F1,

I wanted to get there and be someone,

and that was my sole focus,

and I was so determined the whole way through.

You shared with Howie,

I don't know if you are comfortable

talking about it again here now.

School was a bit tougher, you made, wasn't it?

You know, I think you talk,

as though you have a level of ADHD,

and that there are nerves around things like,

you know, reading books in front of fellow class members,

or classmates at school back then.

That aspect kind of haunted you a bit, mate, didn't it?

Yeah, massively.

I've got severe ADHD.

That much that when I was going through my divorce,

I ended up having to get tested

and do all this sort of stuff for other reasons.

But when they tested it,

they asked me to come back in after the test,

and there was all the other doctors in the room,

and they questioned me for a long period of time,

because they couldn't understand how I had a job,

and for a long period of time,

and sustained it, and I wasn't in jail.

Because the normal medication for someone

is between 30 and 40 milligrams,

of the medication I was on was five ants.

But I didn't get diagnosed last 38, so prior to that.

But anyway, so then, as you can see,

I'm jumping around a bit.

You're right, so good, so good.

But my, so then I sat down with these people,

and they're going through it all,

the doctors, and they're going through it all,

and my dose was 115 milligrams.

But so then they tracked my diet,

and everything I did for a month to try and work out

how I was sort of managing such,

that said, it was the most severe case of ADHD

that I've ever seen.

And they worked out that with my diet,

what I was eating, and my coffee intake,

and all that sort of stuff,

I was self-menocating to balance myself out.

So that was, and at school, that was horrific.

I couldn't sit still.

I couldn't, as you know,

I only wanted to be a racing driver,

or anything else that wasn't gonna benefit that

I was not interested in, or soul-focused on that thing.

You know, at school, it was really hard for me.

I was okay at math with numbers,

but anything, reading, or writing,

or anything like that was horrific.

So even now, like I'll sit, you know, on the telecast,

I can sit and talk for hours about racing,

and if you give me a paragraph to read on TV,

I'll just fall apart.

Like, anything to do with, you know,

there's a form of dyslexia with that as well,

because whenever you have ADHD,

you either have something,

like there's a, they come in pairs, thankfully,

which is lovely.

So you either have ADHD and dyspraxia,

which is trouble to speak,

and you know, you sort of stutter and things like that,

or dyslexia, where it's the words get jumbled up.

So when I read, I don't read...

In a linear sense, in a, you know, you're right.

No, I just look at blocks,

and my brain sort of makes up...

Jumps it, jumps it, yeah, right.

...guess is what the words are,

as opposed to, you know, reading it properly.

So that was always hard.

At school, I was really skinny as well,

like I'm not massive now,

but I was always the little guy.

I went to, you know,

it grew up, Western Sydney, where it was big, tough,

um, footy players.

So at school, I went to a football school,

so I was always the geek that wasn't involved in football,

and I'd go away and race a car on the weekend,

and I'd always get teased at school.

So, um, I was pretty,

I'm really introverted away from racing,

and I just had to teach myself

that I had to be an extrovert

to be able to do what I wanted to do,

which was racing, and, you know,

part of the racing side of things

I made of ours, Neil Crompton,

was bang on to me from when I was 15.

You have to be able to talk to the media.

You have to be able to present yourself.

You know, you have to be able to hold conversations,

all this sort of stuff, so I had to teach myself

on how to be an extrovert.

So a lot of people that see me away from racing

are blown away with how quiet I am,

because the moment I'm on show or doing,

you know, this is a show for us.

This is our show business.

So the moment I'm in character,

I'm bang on life now,

but then, of a night, I'll go and sit in the hotel room

by myself, have a pizza and watch the football,

not talk to anyone.

So it's, a lot of people can't understand

that's the way that all works with me,

but I think it all comes back to, you know,

the way it was through school, the ADHD stuff,

and just being so determined to do racing

and block everything else out.

The thing for me here is the beauty in that.

I mean, that's a very difficult thing to deal with,

and you've obviously gone extensively to try

and manage it the best way you can.

But the great example to other young carters

that might be going to Lithgow for a come and try day

is it hasn't stopped you, mate.

It hasn't stopped you making it all the way to Formula One.

It hasn't stopped you winning a Supercast championship

and so on.

No, not at all.

And the more I sort of think about it,

and you sort of get into it, and you read,

and you talk to people about it, there's so many of us.

It's not like a disease or anything, but.

And talking with the doctors,

they then realize that it's my ability to process

like high stressful situations with so much information.

I'm used to it because my brain's working

like that the whole time.

So you can process so much stuff and make decisions

and get through those crazy times without too much stress.

It's like you've trained yourself

to deal with that stress kind of thing oddly.

Yeah, but a lot of high functioning people with ADHD

in high positions like big CEOs and things like that

because they can deal with that stress.

They can have six million things on their plate at once

and not be overwhelmed with it all.

And it's just because in my head the whole time

there was that much information.

Like when I had to get medicated

through my divorce for a period of time,

which I didn't like because all of a sudden

everything was so quiet and it was, for me, it was unnerving.

Like not having my brain going 24 seven.

Like with my, as soon as I wake up, it's like,

bang, it's on and I'm thinking about what I can do

or what I can't do and what's happening over there.

And like I'm talking to you now

and there's a car on the track.

I wonder what times they're doing.

There's all that sort of like seriously

there's all that stuff going on.

But with you, you're a normal person.

So you're sitting here listening to what I'm saying

and you can block all that out.

So with the ADHD, you have the inability

to prioritize information.

You just get flooded with everything

and then your brain is then trying to process

and place it all and give everything

the same amount of importance with yours.

It's like, hey, I've got to concentrate

because James is talking to me.

Whereas mine is still now trying to work out

what's going on, but explain this and to the podcast.

So it's, it is craziness in there, but it's,

that's my crazy.

Yeah, but you've got a beautiful smile

and you clearly have found a way, mate.

You are a twin too, which not many people realize.

Your sister was born, I think four or five minutes difference

to four minutes.

Four minutes, there you go.

She doesn't have this.

She doesn't, it's not a hereditary.

No, I think she does.

Sorry, sorry, Bec, sorry.

Bec's with twins are very rarely the same sort of character.

Bec's fuse is about a millimeter long

and like I'm pretty crazy and to a point

where I'll get upset, but Bec,

if you look at Bec the wrong way, she's into you.

So, but she's beautiful.

She's, it's amazing for me,

which was really tough through my childhood

is because I left so, it was my choice.

I left when I was 15 and went to Europe.

So then I was by myself.

So I went from mom and dad being so focused

and so such a tight family unit with myself,

Bec, and we have an older sister as well, Melinda.

We'd all travel together, do the racing

and all that sort of stuff.

And then I was off by myself for whatever it was, 11 years.

So you sort of miss so much of your family time with her

and with my older sister and with my mom and dad

through those very influential years

where I was by myself in Europe.

You had to grow up fast, mate, didn't you?

Yeah, it was pretty wild, it was pretty wild.

So mom doted on me as a kid.

And it's Diana, isn't it, your mom?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so, and then dad, Jim, was,

you know, he was hard into me about the racing.

So we're always so close.

And then all of a sudden you're just by yourself in Europe.

So it was a big adjustment for me.

It was like so many times I was like, this is just so sad.

Like I'd sit in hotel, like I'd lived in an apartment

and it was fine through the week when the team was there.

You're talking Italy now when you're living in Italy

and stuff, and sometimes you were there

in winter when it's snow and can't go out.

Yeah, so I pretty much come home at Christmas

for two weeks a year.

And apart from that, I was pretty much there the whole time.

So I would, through the week, you're sort of in the factory

where Tony Cart was the team and you'd sort of be there

with all the boys and everything would be fine.

And then on the weekend, they would all go home

or do their own thing.

And I'd just sit in the hotel room,

Friday night, Saturday, Saturday night, Sunday, Sunday night,

just looking out the window, because I didn't know anyone.

So I just sat, I couldn't understand the TV.

I couldn't read anything.

There was no internet.

You couldn't call home because...

It was a fortune, cost a fortune.

Techs were a new thing, I think.

Techs were new, there was no social media, there was nothing.

So I just, this sounds really horrifying,

but I sit and look out the window.

That's what I do for like three days or two days

over the weekend, or if there's a long weekend,

the same thing.

So I spent a lot of time by myself.

Sort of learned who you are.

You learned Italian.

You learned Italian at this time.

I did learn Italian in the end.

You can understand it still now, I'm told.

If we went to a restaurant, you could pick up bits

and stitch it together.

Yeah, as you sit there, it sort of comes back.

But the funniest thing that I tried to do

while I was getting so much time alone,

I tried to learn to be able to move my toes individually.

I was going to ask you about this.

So this is amazing, right?

So most people, if you took your shoes off now,

don't do that if you're driving,

and you tried to individually move your toes,

most people cannot do that.

But this became a mission for you to drive.

Yeah, it was a massive challenge.

So I spent weeks and weeks trying to learn the new pathway

to try and be able to do it.

So I started to get some movement.

I didn't get full control, but I got a little bit there.

I love it.

Then obviously you get older and girls come in focused

and you forget about that sort of stuff.

During the pandemic, Rusty chatted with a good friend of James,

Dario Francuti, on how a massive Indycar crash

thwarted other racing plans.

Yeah, I did.

You know, he talked about Bathurst.

That was what I wanted to do.

I actually wanted to do the GT3 race at Bathurst this year.

But after seeing some of the shunts, I thought, maybe not.

But yeah, Bathurst was one.

The 24 hours of Le Mans, I had a lovely deal ready to go on that.

Dario's brother, Merino and James are thick as thieves,

as they say.

Let's continue the Convo with James now.

Relatively quickly, there are national titles to your name.

So I mean, this thing takes off for you, mate, in many respects.

Probably if he doesn't mind me talking about it,

your dad went through a tough period from a business point of view.

That made it hard to continue the racing for a little while there.

Enter Jim Morton, great person in Australian motorsport

in karting circles.

And there's a yarn about you.

Dad says, I think at some point you can you go down

and borrow some chain oil of Jim and that leads to a good conversation.

Doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, it does.

So it was Wollongong Street race.

I love that race. I love that.

Yeah, dad says, OK, go up to Jim Morton's tent,

which was like a circus tent that had like a big pitch thing.

And I thought red and white strapped.

Anyway, so go up to them and ask if you because they were sponsored by Castro.

And he said, oh, can you ask if you can borrow some chain oil?

So I roll up there and I'm, excuse me, Mr. Morton,

you know, can we borrow some chain oil?

And he said, on one thing, you have to go back until your daddy has to come

and see me. So I'm like, oh, OK, so he gives me the chain oil.

I think it was chain paste, whatever it was.

So we roll down, I roll back to dad and I'm like, hey, dad, here's the stuff.

But Jim said, you have to go and see him now.

And and he's like, oh, OK, so I think my dad thought he was going to have to pay for.

So dad walks up there.

And anyway, so then Jim sort of weighs down to dad because I stopped racing

because dad had some financial dramas with work and all that sort of stuff.

And I was our first race back and we're doing really well.

I think we were on the front row or whatever, winning heats and all that sort of stuff.

So so dad rolls up there.

And then Jim sort of pretty much says to dad, hey,

look, I want James to be part of that.

At that time, he imported dap cuts.

He said, I'd like James to be part of the whole castrol set up.

So that was that was the first big break for us and, you know, dad and myself.

And that's really what started this whole journey.

So before that, it was just a hobby with dad.

And once Mordo sort of gave me the the in that just got rocketed from there.

So it leads to Tony Cart, mate, naturally.

And they kind of hounded you to come to Portugal for the world championships.

So we had that that first year.

The next year, Jim changed the Tony car because the Dap stuff wasn't good enough

and he changed it because he imported the stuff.

So the imported Tony car, that first race, there's an international

kart race every year in Australia is in Raleigh, Nicos Harbour.

So we roll up there.

There's all Euro kids that come out the first time.

So cool. Before there's only ever the Euro seniors would come.

So then to Oren Park, one year I reckon, too.

Yeah, I remember the year after I think it was maybe two years after.

So anyway, so they came out and I ended up winning the event.

And, you know, there's a hotshot Euro kids that were there

and they were supposed to walk the floor with us.

And and I remember we only had one engine the whole time.

And dad leased it from Peter De Bruyne.

And I remember dad having the big chat with me, saying, this is very expensive.

You know, you've got to be so much.

Yeah, don't destroy it.

You've got to be so careful.

Make sure you're choking it.

Keep it cool. All it's all so nervous.

I'm driving around. Anyway, I was so nervous

and I was running at that rich and choking it that hard.

I actually stalled the engine while I was racing in and then we thought

I thought that it just seized.

So then dad went crazy and then we were just sort of, you know, this is it.

The weekend's over and we're sort of half packing up

because we only had enough money for one engine.

And Peter De Bruyne came over and he was like, hey, what are you guys doing?

My dad's like, well, he blew the engine up.

So I've only got one engine, so it's over.

And then he's like, no, you didn't blow it up. It's fine.

He must have just choked it too hard to looking after it.

So anyway, so he put it back on and continued on the weekend.

We ended up winning the weekend.

And then on the way home, I remember as we were packing up,

dad was over with Jim Morton and the guy who owns Tony Carter called Robotsy,

Roberto Robotsy. Yeah, yeah.

So we're all talking and I was a kid throwing rocks at someone or something.

And then we're getting the car on the way home and dad said, hey, just so as you know, look,

we can't afford it, but he said that we should race

they want us to go to the world championship because he said that you were super quick

and he was super impressed.

But he said, look, we can't ask Jim Morton to pay for it.

And he said, we can't afford it.

So that's pretty cool that they asked us.

But that's it. The feeling was that's kind of it.

Yeah, that's it.

But then I remember two weeks before the race,

then they said, hey, can you come and do the world championship?

And dad explained the position.

And they said, hey, look, just get over here.

Roberto called, I think, didn't he chase Jim to get you or to get all of you, didn't he?

Yeah, yeah.

So then came through and got to us.

And then I ended up my first ever time being on a plane and I flew to Europe.

And I remember being there at the World Championship and it was Ryan Briscoe and I,

we're both shooting ourselves like properly.

Like these kids are shaving at bids.

Some of them already receding here.

Hair lines to add to this.

There's some names that people will know too.

Like like Tony Oliotsy, like Fernando Alonso.

These are the guys in the driver's briefing for these two little guys.

Yeah, they're all there.

So anyway, we were at practice and I kept after testing and going each session,

I'd come out and say to dad, I'm like, hey, how are we going fast enough?

What's the thing?

He goes, no, you need to work on this.

Listen to your mechanic and the mechanic who was Yarno Trulli's manager.

And he's a mechanic because he was still in the car team.

And he's saying, no, you need to work on this, this, this.

So I kept doing it and ended up doing all the testing for a few days.

Still had no idea.

Then we go into qualifying and I got out of the qualifying.

I'm like, oh, I had, you know, didn't embarrass us.

Did I? How are we going?

And my dad's like, no, we're first.

And I was like, what?

And he goes, no, you're fastest.

Anyway, and then we went on to win every, every heat.

We won every heat, the pre-final and the final.

So it was pretty crazy.

You've missed a story here in the driver's briefing.

Didn't Liosy give you a sign or something?

So we, we roll into the driver's briefing and Ryan and I were like half the size of

everyone else as well.

Those skinny little Aussie blonde head kids.

And I remember it was Liozzi and another guy called Antonucci, Ricardo Antonucci.

So they're both tall guys already shaving.

And they standing at the other end of the thing and Ryan Briscoe is like,

we're standing beside him and he goes, hey, those guys are looking at us.

And I'm like, what guys?

And he points them out.

And as we're both looking at them, they point at us and then they just start going like this.

And Ryan and I are like, oh God, we're in trouble here.

But people that can't see that.

It was like a slit throat, like you guys are gone.

Yeah, we're going to take you down.

So, so that was horrifying.

But yeah, we ended up winning.

And, and then at the end of that weekend, they sort of said to, said to mum and dad and, and

asked, hey, you can either stay and keep racing and come to Europe and be that or we can end

it here.

And I was like, no, I'm going to do the carting thing.

Your lovely mum's a great, I mean, your family are a great family full stop,

mate, but how was she with letting you go for that?

And, you know, yeah, I think it was pretty tough for them.

Like being a parent now, I cannot imagine that.

Oh, mate, it's wild to think I was 14, just turned 15, my son's 15 now.

And he's to think that I was sort of at that same age.

And, but yet mum and dad sort of gave me the chance to go and do it.

It was, it was unbelievable.

And, and it did make me mature so much quicker and, you know, not take anything for granted.

So it was, yeah, it was, it was wild.

Awesome.

Caddell, I think too, drew a connection from Caddell Evans, who you like mountain biking

back in the day.

Yeah.

And he was a gun mountain biker before he won the Tour de France.

Well, yeah, exactly.

And that's where I remember watching him mountain bike back in the day and that name

and thinking far, that's a cool name.

Cool name.

And Zara, my daughter, I got from when I went to, when I was racing and we went to Spain

and I saw Zara shops.

And I'm like, oh, that's a pretty name.

And that's how I got by.

Let's continue the journey.

So that's the 95.

Well, title if I'm, if I'm, if I'm right.

I tried to find it for this discussion, mate.

I can't, I have it somewhere and it would be on film like a proper photo.

I reckon either that year or at some point in 96, I can't remember.

You came back.

I was doing some PA commentary on the grid at Oran Park and he was that year.

And you cut a lap of the track and everyone was just chuffed that we had this world champion,

mate.

And I did a couple of little chats with you on the, I don't remember, mate.

I vividly remember it.

So you go into the next year with another shot at the world championship again.

And if memory serves, something goes wrong with the throttle and you nearly got a podium,

but you had to drive it using the throttle by hand or something.

What did you do?

I can't remember how you got around it.

Yeah, the throttle cable broke.

So then, yeah, I had to use my hand, but your foot's still working, which is funny.

But you ended up finishing fourth that time.

So we definitely could have been further on the field.

But we were super strong throughout it all.

My teammate ended up winning, which is annoying.

But yeah, I think we, that's probably another one which we could have had.

Yep, I reckon.

But you win again in 97, right?

Just rattle off for people, some of the names in the field that year.

Yeah.

So it's all those guys.

Rykonen, Jensen was in Supra.

There was Anthony Davidson, who now does this guy stuff.

Yeah, I do.

Amazing.

Everyone.

Everyone that's sort of my age group that went through.

We were all there together.

So who would you, I mean, we'll get to the single-seater stuff in a second here.

Who's one of the toughest you've come up against in that period?

Alonso, Hamilton?

I think, yeah, all those guys were there.

I reckon the best guy I've ever raced against, which is a shame, is Anthony Davidson.

Really?

Yeah.

He was so good.

And it was my, he was my nemesis.

Like, really?

Like, we, we didn't hate each other.

Like, it's one of the grand prix.

We're mucking around just the other week, but because we're both English speaking.

So typically when you go to the track, because we're all there together,

all the English guys would sort of speaking guys would hang together and all the

Euros would go and do their thing.

And it always frustrated me that he was always challenging me.

Like, we were always there with each other.

And I nicknamed him the prawn because he had, he had red hair.

And he was little until the hunched over.

So I called Ant the prawn.

But he was super quick through karting and all the way into open-wheelers.

And we sort of butted heads that whole way.

But he, yeah, he was, he was really good.

He was good.

He's one guy that definitely should have had more of a shot than what he did.

My teammate through all that as well.

Andre Lotterer, he was a German.

He was really, really good.

And then we're a Jaguar together.

But there was a lot of us that sort of were on a similar sort of level,

but we just arrived at Formula One in the wrong time.

Like we were too, too early or too late for that changing of the guard.

And it was a period there where there wasn't any real change in F1.

They sort of let Reichenan and Button through.

And then they were like, oh, we're hanging off for a minute.

And then there wasn't a lot of change through that period.

So timing is everything.

Yeah, all of us sort of were waiting on the edge there.

And it didn't really open up.

And we all sort of went our separate ways.

You formed some very good friendships in that period.

Because I think circumstance more or less forces you, you too.

You win that second title, I think at the end of 97 there.

And then you, you come back.

Dad, I think was perhaps talking to you about maybe a trade

or maybe the family business or something, something along those lines.

And there's a chance meeting with Neil Crompton.

You go with Castro to Bathurst or something or other.

Might have been the Super Touring Bathurst.

And it was the Super Touring.

And he was, he was almost, because I know what Neil's like in these moments, right?

He was almost insistent that you don't give up the dream, wasn't he?

And did he stitch a meeting together with Alan Gow?

Yeah, so Neil, I was, because I think Brock was even racing then.

He would have been, yeah, yeah.

He would have been, he would have been.

Because I'd just done a funny, so we did a lap around the mountain and in the go-kart.

Wow.

And it was a shifter cart.

And I remember, I don't know why, but I was behind Brock.

And I reckon he was in the Volvo, in the Volvo 850.

No, I remember him saying, because they were getting us to do it together.

I remember him saying, oh, look, I'll, I'll make sure you're there.

I won't sort of take off on you.

And I go, who's this old bloke?

Take off on me, come down, mate.

Anyway, I remember, like in the go-kart, you can sort of see him in the mirror.

And I remember him looking like, holy shit, this kid's done, so he was hooking along.

Anyway, so we did that lap.

And as we got out, I think Neil interviewed me.

And we sort of did like a little interview.

And then afterwards, he was like, oh, what are you, what are you doing now?

You know, you should think about getting into cars.

And I was like, mate, the show's over.

Dad said to me, you know, yeah, at this point I was 18, pretty much.

Yeah, you can't race a go-kart forever.

It's cool.

You've had good fun.

You've won a couple of world championships.

But you've got to start getting on with life and moving on.

And we can't afford car racing.

So yeah, I said, I'm starting work with Dad.

I'm going to be laying carpet.

And Neil was like, don't do that.

He said, give me a few days before you commit massively or completely give up on the dream.

So I was like, oh, OK, so drive home, said to Dad, I'm like, Dad,

this Neil Crompton bloke reckons he can maybe help us.

And then he called on the Tuesday.

And he's like, hey, can you be in Sydney at lunchtime?

And I said, I couldn't drive.

I didn't have a car or whatever.

And I said, Dad, can you take us in?

So I must have been 16, 17.

I must have been 17.

Anyway, so then Dad was like, yeah, I'll take you in.

So then he took me into meet Alan because he wanted to meet both of us.

And yeah, then I sat down with Gowey.

And he's like, wanted our story.

And I sort of went through our life story and all that sort of stuff.

And he said to me on that day, he goes, right, Neil's informing me about this.

I've been looking over it all.

I don't want you to answer now.

But what I am going to tell you is I will pay for your first year.

You can come and live with me.

Yeah, I'll pay for your first year in formal forward.

Only ever pay for one year.

If you're good enough, then we'll find other people that will pay

and manufacturers and stuff that will carry you through.

If not, we had a good crack and you'll just owe me that money for the rest of your life

and you'll slowly work it off.

Here's a, I'll get a 10 year contract drawn up for you.

Don't answer me now.

Go away and think about it because at the moment you're emotional

and you're going to say yes, but you need to have a think about it

because this is going to be a huge life changing decision for you.

And it's not all going to be roses.

So go away, have a chat with your dad and get back to me.

So on the way home, Dad and I are talking.

Properly good guy to have in your corner.

I mean, owner of the British touring car championship had worked significantly

with Brock over time, all those guys, Brad Jones, Crompo,

they all know Gau very closely and how well connected he is.

I'm probably talking a little bit out of school here, mate,

but I think it was in the order of £120,000 back then.

So probably quarter of a million dollars that was committed for you

to go and do the formula forward, British formula forward,

which is held in high regard.

And typically that's a two year campaign, mate, isn't it?

You get in and then hopefully you can have a shot at it the next year

with the factory team or whatever it might be.

Yeah, so yeah, two parts of that.

So yes, Gau is a God in the world.

He's also high up in the FIA.

I think he was, I don't know,

I can never remember the guy's name who runs the FIA now,

but back then, John Todd or Max Moseley.

So he was second in charge.

So Gau, he had anything that had a roof on it,

he was sort of in charge of.

So he's massively influential.

And then, I can't remember, it was the second part.

Well, it's just about where this is going to take you.

So he makes this commitment to you.

Yeah, yeah, and then the car,

so then, and with Formula Ford, yes,

because typically you're coming out of cars

and you've got to learn how to change gears,

down change, braking, the weight of the cars and everything.

So typically it is a two year program.

So yeah, so we did the first year,

tore up a lot of stuff.

Like me, I remember, and I was so scared.

My first ever test.

So I get to Donnington and prior to this,

I was at the IndyCar race on the Gold Coast

and I met Dario Franckitti and Paul Tracy.

So then I was hanging out with those guys all week.

So they knew me through karting and then Dario was like,

hey, my brother's racing,

Formula Vauxhall Junior next year,

and you're doing the British Formula Ford.

It's the same weekend, you guys should hang out.

So anyway, so the first test, I met the test

and this Scottish kid comes up to me and it's Marina.

So Marina is like, hey.

And I'm like, hey.

And he's like, my brother said we should hang out.

And I'm like, okay, cool.

What are you doing after this?

And Marina is like, oh, nothing.

And he goes, do you want to go get pizza?

So I'm like, all right.

So then we drive and he goes, where do you live?

And I'm like, oh, I live with this guy, this old guy.

And he's like, huh, who is it?

And I said, oh, it's Alan Gown.

He goes, I'm not going to his house.

And I'm like, what?

What do you mean?

He goes, I'm not going there.

That guy's out of, like crazy.

I'm not going to his, he's scary.

And I'm like, what?

Gowie.

And he's like, yeah.

And I'm like, no.

Anyway.

So then we go back there.

And yeah.

And then Alan obviously meets Marina.

Marina becomes Alan's third son.

I'm Alan's second son or third, fourth son now.

But yeah.

So we're all sort of become like all super close mates.

So he's a lifelong friend, mate, isn't he?

A very, very close friend.

Super, super close.

Both him and Big D.

But no.

So Gowie was super scary and super influential.

And everyone is funny.

Like we'd go to the races.

And it was kind of like he would hate me to like him,

to Tony Cochran.

But he had that sort of aura about him at the track.

Like everyone was a frightened of him,

would cautiously approach him and everything.

And then there was, but he got shit done, mate.

He organized.

He, I mean.

Yes.

He paid for that whole first year.

And anyway.

So then Gowie and I and we, I can't remember where we finished

that first year in Formula Four.

We ended up getting the works on the four drive the next year.

So then we're free from then on.

Somewhere.

I reckon Lee Diffie is in the UK in this period.

Early days of World Superbikes.

And he was doing a few little video projects.

And I reckon I would have the VHS.

I've still got it.

Did you?

You still got it.

He made this great video about you and your campaign

and what you were doing.

Ozzy's abroad, I think.

Ozzy's well played.

Well played.

Well done.

I couldn't remember.

There's only ever one.

It was me.

He never made a star.

I think you're so scared after the first one.

Two copies.

We've got them.

Now, can I talk about, if you don't mind, somewhere here,

I don't know whether it's with the factory drive

or that first year, you get a kind of pretty,

pretty tough wake up call around the dangers of racing

with a with a teammate, an Irish teammate

who is killed tragically at at Alton Park.

If you can share a bit of that and what that was like.

Yeah, it's horrifying.

He was a great character too, mate.

I mean, he was a great prankster, wasn't he?

Yeah, Neil Redhead at Irishman,

super jokester, just really nice guy, Neil.

And we're both young guys trying to be the head guy

on the team and all that sort of stuff

and playing pranks on each other.

And Neil had a, with another mate of ours, Craig Murray,

who was a Scottish guy, Neil had a, Craig was passing him.

They touched Neil, ended up in the wall

and died at the, at the, at Alton Park when we were racing there.

So that was probably my first ever sort of big loss in racing

with someone that I was quite, really quite close to.

And I remember, because this is my teammate and everything,

you sort of, the red flag comes out and you drive along

and I saw it was his car.

So you sort of look to see how much the damage is

to be able to tell the team if they can fix it

and all that sort of stuff.

So I slowed down, as I slowed down,

you could see the, the draw of the helmet was broken off.

So you knew it was pretty bad, but, but yeah, that was, that was,

that was hard.

That was really, really hard.

Still knocks you around now.

I didn't just recounting that.

I can tell.

Yeah, he's, we were, the crazy thing is like,

two, like five minutes earlier,

we were all mucking around, having a great time.

And then obviously then, you know,

doing something we both love so much,

um, then for him to lose his life was, uh,

and it, it, it sort of brought home that we sort of,

everyone forgets how dangerous it can be.

If something like the wheel, as he hit,

the wheel stayed connected or the upright all stayed connected.

So it was made wasn't it and stuff.

Yeah, the wheel came up and hit him

and that's what, that's what ultimately killed him.

But yeah, I remember that afternoon they, you know,

chopped him out and all that sort of stuff.

And I remember Alan, who was like, had no emotion.

Like he was like blue steel and just like scary at the track.

Him coming in and he knew how tight myself,

Marino and Neil were.

And I remember Alan calling us up to go in

and Marino and I never, ever, like we knew it was bad,

but we never thought it would be this.

And I remember Alan sitting us down and Alan crying

because he knew how it would affect us.

And why don't it show that he was human, galley.

He broke it to you.

He told you before it had become public, I think.

Yeah, so he told me and I straight away,

which was, I was there closed down the race meeting

and all that sort of stuff.

So, and he just said to us, he said,

you know, he gave us, I think it was a thousand pounds

or something and just said,

this is going to be just go to Scotland

for a week or a couple of weeks.

You guys just don't leave each other alone,

just stay together and get through it all.

Dario loans you the keys to his place.

Yeah, so he stayed at his place.

But yeah, that was, that was a super tough time.

That was, and it was probably harder for my parents as well

because something like that happened.

Because you coping with it alone.

Yeah, me coping with it alone,

but then also them remembering how dangerous it can be.

So it sort of, I think it sort of affected them a lot as well.

But yeah, it was, yeah, it was pretty tough time.

Just to underscore the great zest for life he had,

the energy that he had, I think you too,

maybe you and Merino had put like,

what was it?

All these wheel weights in his rental car,

his road car on the way on the track that day,

and he had to stop and jack it up.

But what was going on?

He couldn't do more than 30k an hour.

Yeah, so he'd always do shit to me, like prank,

like I hate bananas.

So he'd put them in my race boots and like,

just screw with me the whole time, just doing stuff.

You have a banana phobia?

Yeah, so anyway, do all this stuff.

So I was like, right, I'm going to get this bastard back.

So we got, I went to Dunlop on,

this is like the Thursday you get to the track,

and I went to the Dunlop guy and I'm like,

give me all the wheel weights you can.

So we got two handfuls and we went out to Neil's car

and at the hotel that night,

we put them all like one on the front left corner,

like all in one spot.

And then on the right rear corner,

just as it wasn't, excuse me, hitting the brake duct.

So there probably was like a couple of hundred grams

like on each wheel, like there was a lot.

It would feel horrible.

And we're in old high.

I remember Neil was like, all right,

I'm going to go leave it whatever,

at seven o'clock to go to the track.

And I said to me, I will wait a little bit and then we'll go.

So then we go past and we see him jacked up

like he stopped on the side of the road.

With his car jacked up, like looking around underneath

and everything and we just toot the horn

and keep going and laugh.

And then he gets to the track like 20 minutes later

and we're like, what are you doing, mate?

And he's like, I don't know,

there's this massive vibration in my car

and I can't work out what it is.

But yeah, so, yeah, I got the last laugh, Neil.

Love it, love it.

Dario came on the pod during COVID

when we were all struggling for things to do.

I had a great chat with him

and he told me a fun story about you and Marina.

And I don't know if it happened during this period.

Do not try this at home, kids, right?

But he tells me, I think he was in America at the time

and you two might have jumped.

Honda, it was like full juke's of hazard, was it not?

So we go to Scotland, whenever we're there,

we get to borrow it.

We drive all of Dario's cars except the 355 and the F40.

Everything else was helpful.

You boys do what you want.

So it was right when the Honda just released

that Type R Accord.

So we go out and Marina and I are hooking around.

We go, I can't remember.

We're in doubt to lunch or something.

Anyway, just doing manies in this thing.

Marina, it's like the variable valve timing.

So it sounded like it was turbo and all sorts of stuff.

So we're coming home.

Marina goes, hey, on the way home, we'll go past.

This is like super special stage from my school to the house.

He goes, I know the road back to front.

He goes, there's a humpback bridge.

We'll do a little jump.

It'll be awesome.

So I went, right, huh?

So we go out and we're like, we're coming up

and he's like, oh, it's up here and driving along.

And I can see it.

And Marina's pulling gears and we're going fast, like real quick.

And we come up and we're coming up to the humpback bridge

and I'm thinking, we're going way too fast here.

This, we're going to end up on the moon here.

So as we're going out and Marina's like, I'm like, mate,

we're going fast.

And he goes, no, no, it's all good.

I do it every day on the way out of the school.

So I'm like, right, I'm holding on.

And right as we get to the crest,

Marina realizes we are going too fast.

So he just backs off.

So then it goes along through the air

and it then goes nose down and we go through the air

and we're both yelling at each other.

It's like slow motion.

Like, look at each other.

And it lands like on the front bar.

Like it nearly does a front summy,

but it lands on the front bar and we're sliding along the road

on the front bar and then it bounces

and we end up like off the road.

And we're like, holy shit.

And then we jump out of the car and I'm like, you all right?

And he's like, yeah.

So we run around to the front and there's no front bar on the car.

And we're like, the hell in the front,

lights of gravel rash on them.

That's how far up it was.

And the chassis rails are just full of like tarmac

because it's just pushed all up into the chassis rails

and the radiators all like jammed back

and all the ducting on the front screwed.

And then we look down the road

and you can just see the front bar

and I'm like, oh, we better go get it.

We go down and the front bar just has like two little marks on it.

It must have just hit it in the perfect spot

to break the clips and pop it off.

So then we're like, oh, what are we going to do?

How are we going to explain this?

And I'm like, we can't tell him that we jumped the thing.

So we end up zip tying the bar back on

and we come up with this story to Dario

that we're driving up to Nock Hill

because to look at the track

and the cyclists on the road and they coming the other way.

So we had to get off the road.

No, there's a guy on a Renault 5

because they were always out of control.

We said, a guy on a Renault 5 come around out of control.

That cyclist was another crash we had.

We didn't actually, there wasn't a real cyclist,

but anyway.

So then we said the Renault 5, so we went off the road

and it hit him and plucked the bar off.

So Dario believed this the whole time.

Until it was at his wedding.

And then Marina and I, I got drunk

and then told Dario the real story

and he reckons that he knew it the whole time

he was waiting for us to tell him

because someone saw us parked up.

That's the end of part one of this Ripper Feature episode

with James Courtney.

Hope you're enjoying it as much as I am.

Part two is all loaded up

and ready for you to enjoy right now.

Jump back to the library when you're ready and fire it up.

A little known Indy car option.

As well as some reflections

on the supercars chapter of his career.

Including a very vivid memory of the day

that he won the title amidst the backdrop

of serious financial challenges

for the team at the time.

His move into broadcasting

and how it very nearly happened a few years earlier.

Plus what looks like the perfect bookend

to his supercars driving career.

And much more.

It's all ahead here on Rusty's Garage.

James Courtney | Part 1 - cut throat karting & losing a good mate

About this episode

GMC Cyclone

Supercars championship

Howie Games pod

British Formula Four champion

karting days

adjustable pedals

open face helmet

goggles

Formula One

shunts

24 hours of Le Mans

Jim Morton

chain oil

Fernando Alonso

Yarno Trulli

throttle

Anthony Davidson

Hamilton

F1

go-kart

British touring car championship

two year campaign

factory team

FIA

IndyCar

VHS

rental car

jack it up

Dunlop

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