James Pumphrey and Scotto Talk About Being Enemies, VWs and Other Cool Stuff - VERY VEHICULAR 006

What's up everybody welcome back to another episode of very vehicular I am your host Brian scato and today

We have mr. James

Pumphrey who referred to himself as potentially my enemy he jokes

But there was a period of time where donut and Hoonigan were kind of rivals we talk about that

We talk about the business of making content

Obviously we dive deep into just Volkswagen nerdage and we talk about a lot of everything else

I didn't really ever know James that well we worked on two opposite sides and like he said we were sort of rivals

So this was a great one. It was good to hear sort of his side of things. I got to talk about my side

It was a great conversation. Hope you guys enjoy it

All right, so I invited you on this show like seven months ago, I was thinking about that on my way here

I was thinking about it on my way here because there was no traffic

We're recording this like four days after Christmas and I was like, you know what I'm glad I put it off

I'm glad I pushed it because I'm just cruising down the Long Beach

So I invited you then it's funny because at that time we knew each other a lot less than we do now

Yeah, because we one worked on a movie together and we'll get into that and then we also did chef punks together

And I think I just talked a little bit more

Yeah, but it's funny because the original idea was like oh we could just do a simple like get to know each other podcast because I

Think most people think we know each other. Yeah, we're very

We're two planets in the same

Galaxy solar system, but like honestly, but I think I don't think we could have been further apart

No, we were technically enemies. I think would you see it that way? I wouldn't but I think public

I don't know. It's interesting because we talked about this a lot like we were both

The biggest of who we're doing it. So without question, we're looking at your guys numbers, right?

You're sure back and forth and and I'll just say it off the bat like you guys are beating us on numbers

But we were like, but we also were like doing a very different show

The reason that we did a lot of the stuff that we did, okay

I think it's like two bands, you know, and I think like one of us is blurred one of us is Oasis and

Wait, which one are we? I don't know. I think we're blur

You guys I think you're although a quick little fun fact Oasis was one of Ken's favorite bands

I grew up in New York City working on cars and alleyways on jack stands

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Winter is coming which for many of us just means snow and church van is so ready because I got some Toyo open-country

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My sketch group when I was in my 20s like we loved Oasis really I think it's why I burn a lot of relationships early on

Because we were just like we're the best

We're not gonna be afraid to say it. That's our persona

We're just gonna like walk into parties and like mean mug people. It's like who says comedians have to be nerds

No, we're cool. We all like dress. So are you the no-gallagher of the group? I'd say I'm probably I'd say

I'm more of a Liam okay in my life. I think I always have a knoll

Yeah, like Jesse or Zach Redpath are my knoll right now. Funny thing

I would just jump on this so we were all sitting around it here again

And we're like it was a moment where we're thinking about expanding and doing more and

As making a list of people to call and hire and Jesse Wood was at the top of the list

And then I reached out to him like two days later and I was like, hey, man

What are you doing? He's like, oh, I just joined doughnut and I was like thinking like I wonder how different life

Like my life would be totally different things would have changed a bit

Yeah, so I would have been totally different because like Jesse was a ripper back then just in terms of like making like drift content

Like work with a bunch of people we knew so he was just this like guy

We knew from that space and then he went on to obviously go and build like this massive thing with doughnut

I want to give him his flowers because I feel like he doesn't get him often. Dude Jesse gets plenty of flowers. Does he? Oh for sure

You think so? Yeah, totally

All right, no flowers for Jesse, take them back

No, he deserves all of them

But everyone assumes that the guy behind the scenes doesn't get it, but totally he does

I make a point of it, but dude like yeah, Jesse's I think

What I've been looking for my whole like since I moved to LA it's just like a creative partner

Where like our relationship is I think what you and Ken had whereas like we really are

Additive to each other and I've worked with a lot of people when I was like doing comedy and writing movies and stuff and

But those guys were like trying to do exactly what I was trying to do

Mm-hmm, and we were like trying to do you feel more competitive. Yeah, and there's like ego involved and

Finding a creative partner who just like fills the gaps and is like really good at all the stuff that you're not good at but then also

Appreciate and like points out stuff. Yeah, you're good at was like, I mean literally it changed my life

I think also working with a partner and you were kind of getting at this

Like who doesn't want the same end result that you do right for themselves. Yeah, right?

Like I had no ambitions to be a driver

I really had no ambitions to be in front of camera that sort of came

Because of need when we were making stuff. Yeah, but you're in front of camera like a Spielberg type character

like I used to reference you like as I was

Like we were hiring new staff and like the cast at doughnut got bigger and bigger like

Before you know when I was planning on just like making that my career

We would talk about like how I would evolve and I was like, yeah, I'll be like

Maybe I'll just like be more like Scott. Oh

And I'll like roll in and then I'll go take a phone call

And so at one point like, you know, I come from like a mood like

Traditional media background. So like I like characters and stuff and everyone at doughnut had a character

and

I was like at one point. I was like, all right. So and I think Jesse came up with this but he's like, all right

So you're a mix of scato

And Kenny Powers

Michael Scott from the office. That's a good mix. Yeah, I'm by the way, I'm honored to know that I was part of that

For sure dude, but I it's funny cuz you know our history with doughnut goes all the way back to when Ben first

Like kind of came up with I mean the first time our logo ever appeared was on Ken's jacket and right before slightly different

But it's funny that you call it that way because to us that was before doughnut existed

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it was like that was because we worked with ornamental conifer to do his jacket

And doughnuts were just almost like this joke. We had just done

Or we were in the process of doing Jim Connate eight

I think and it was just like there were too many doughnuts in that video and it was just like doughnut doughnut doughnut

And it was like we just started calling it like the doughnut videos

Right. So this joke like the origin of doughnuts really interesting to me because we were somewhat involved early on

I don't think we really talk about that much

But like Ben Conrad was at Logan was you know director for Jim Connate four through eight

I worked under him kind of coming up on all of those and and I said this in a previous episode like I owe Ben

So much because like he taught me a ton and gave me a route to be a director

And and I think the biggest thing I have to thank him for is like he just lacks ego in that way

Yeah, he totally just let me do my thing, right? He's the reason I joined on it

I was done being in front of the camera. Did you know him from before? No

I got a random eat like a cold email from his partner Nick Mosari. Yeah, and

They were like I've told this story before but they were like we just did a short film with your friend Josh Fadham

Josh and we asked if there were any

Comedians who liked cars and they and Josh said there's only one

Just one just me and like back then

Liking cars was sort of like a bit of a dirty secret

It was like a third date confession

If I was like sure that a girl was starting to like me I could then be like, okay, I

Drive a stupid car. Mm-hmm

Like we can't valet my car, right? Yeah

And so certain places we can't go because I'm afraid to park my car

Yeah, if we get certain gas stations

We can't stop that because my car is too low. Yeah, if we go to Palm Springs, we will be taking your car

Because I chose

And so I went in and met with them and like at that point I was just a little exhausted by

Auditioning and just playing that game and I was like dude Ben is the coolest guy I've ever met

Yeah, and I'm gonna do what he does. So he is that like just twirl his hair cuz dude. Yeah, exactly

And then like make big decisions and for some reason he was like, yeah, you can just all hang out with you and

Smoke cigarettes and yeah go to bars and I'll just answer any questions you have and involve you in

Everything I'm doing and I was like, okay, cool

this is what I'm gonna do and

It was like kind of a fluke that I ended up on camera because you came into doughnut like year two

I think right like they did a year of trying a bunch of different things and so they started Matt

This CEO donut quit his job

At like his his previous job in August. Yeah, awesome. I got my first email at the end of January

Okay of 2016. Yeah

It's just interesting to us because like we kind of were watching it from the outside and then

And I like I don't want to get into but some stuff happened with us like behind the scenes not with Ben

but with other people there and we just kind of distance ourselves and

Went on did our own thing and actually the original reason it was called doughnut was because Ben and Nick saw it as a company

that Ken and I were gonna be involved in and they offered us shares and

We already sort of had a plan of wanting to do content with Hoonigan

Like that was already in the line and when we looked at the business model

It just wasn't it wasn't it didn't really fit for what we wanted and also

I think kind of what the expectation they had for Ken to do stuff and for Ken early on that kind of media wasn't really interesting

It wasn't till later on it was more of something I wanted to do so it was like all right

Yeah, you guys kind of go do your thing and so on and then I feel like you know

Obviously doughnut really got it's like it's groove when you guys started doing like the you know

The explainer up to speed stuff and it was interesting because I kind of back to before being like we were the enemies was like

It was like I don't know if we ever saw you guys were definitely competition boat in the beginning

You guys did something completely different. Yes, it was more like a tie

It was more like if we were both on primetime television

We were in the same time slot, but it was like friends and Star Trek

It was like two completely different shows, but it just happened to be like Arctic monkeys in the strokes

I feel like they're a lot closer than that

Yeah, I think like enemies is the wrong word, but competition for sure and for a while the only competition. Yeah, and I think like

Did you guys ever see motor trend as competition? We saw them as

honestly like they were my I

Say it I was like I want to take out motor trend. Yeah, they were like

Like I had like my crosshairs on one hundred percent and

And because they were in our crosshairs, too

Like I don't think we looked you guys are doing something so different than us that we looked in motor trend

And this probably has a lot to do with like my history in print as like they were the evil Empire totally

Yeah, there are guys over there like Finnegan fry burger, you know, obviously eventually Tony Angelo

But I just looked at them as like you guys are the enemy totally

We were making stuff was zero dollars and they had a bajillion dollars

And and that like showrunners and all these extra people that I wish we had and it wasn't that like I

You know roadkill was the first thing

phenomenal like what I do, you know, like it was like

the

Like it was it changed the entire industry and it inspired everyone who's come after them whether they realize it or not

I would say them in mighty car mods. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, totally

But like it wasn't that I didn't like motor chen because I loved motor chen it was it was like proof of

What I could do. Yeah, like do as well as they were doing we we had

We did this like industry event where we invited a ton of people from the industry to

Hoonigan when we hit like some ridiculous arbitrary number was like

1.4 billion like minutes watched or something and

We invited one of the guys

Matt Boyce who is who is that motor tram?

It's one of the sales guys and he came and he came up to me

I'm like, oh, how have you been, you know, and he kind of gave me the sob story

It was like this moment when like things were kind of rough over at motor trend and then he turned to me and he said

I'm not gonna ask you how you've been because all I hear from everybody who works at motor trend is Hoonigan this Hoonigan that

Have you seen what Hoonigan did and like that was the moment that I felt like we won

Yeah, because like I had someone from inside a motor trend like and like he's a really funny guy

And he was saying it in the very like self deprecating but fun way

Oh, just to give me that moment to be like, hey, you guys are kind of killing it and apparently you're killing it like

You know with like half the resources we are and I think that was what was the coolest part for me

Was like how little resources we had

Comparatively to what they were going and doing because they had more not I don't say TV size budgets

Not by any means but they had more of that structure than I think we did than you guys did

Yeah, I mean like I think you got to keep it in check

Because it can get out of control and you can end up being a dick and people not liking you

but I think it is at least when you're starting it's healthy and

Beneficial to create with a chip on your shoulder 100%

I actually

Didn't like once we got sort of in that top tier position to be like because then all you can do is fall, right?

Right like I heard this thing the other day and it was like something about you know, you chase a goal

You know, you're chasing this goal

But no one ever tells you that once you get the goal

Then you have to try to keep it and I'm keeping the goal is actually harder than than achieving 100% because you know like we hear

I've been thinking a lot lately about like all these buzzwords that we hear all the time like authenticity and community

Stuff like that and like what they actually mean and I think people misinterpret them and

I've been thinking about what authenticity

actually means

because I'm working on this new project and

When you're on the top and I had this realization with Donut like at one point

We were getting more views than any other automotive channel on YouTube. We were the biggest yep, and I was like we can't

Like

We can't

Act like what you used to like we can't right saying

That we're the little guy anymore because now we are motor trend. Yeah, and I remember thinking about that

I had we had a meeting with me Matt and Jesse in the conference room of

Our first office on Purdue and I was like I want I want to take Matt was like what do you want to do?

I was like I want to be bigger than motor turn and he was like all right

Let's do it and then we work and we were like bigger than everybody, but we were still

Like pretending that we weren't and we were pretending that we were still like the little guy and I like gathered everybody

I was like we got to figure this out because now there's guys like sea boys and

You know Jimmy Oaks and all these other guys with you know

I don't want to be like narcissistic and think that like I'm on their brain, but like

Motor trend was on mine and so like

Just like we were

Wanting to take out that empire. We were now owned by private equity

Mm-hmm and operating with like millions of dollars a year and we were the biggest and like in order to maintain

authenticity into actually

Act in like what that word means like I think before I left I was like having these conversations

Like what do we do now like what do we do as the biggest thing?

See I think the one thing for us at Hoonigan was always different was I would always just go do something new. Yeah

So I would either be like hey, let's create a new show, but then even outside of content like hey

Let's go do events like let's go do this on the apparel side

Let's go do whatever and a lot of that stemmed from me really enjoying the startup phase

Yeah, and the biggest joke was like Hoonigan was a startup inside of a startup inside of a start

It was like a nesting egg of startups

So like there was always this new thing to go chase with like a new goal

Which also allows you to no longer focus on like this one thing that feels so important

Like hey, we're number one if we're not number one anymore because like well you guys obviously had that with daily content

Like we had it with Jim Conant. Oh, there's still do like no one's ever touched that

Yeah, but like there was always that fear that someone would and someone eventually will or maybe not

I don't know in some ways. I think that the format is over

Like I don't think anyone's making that kind of content anymore

I think it's sort of like it I always say like that film is grandfathered into the algorithm

And I don't think it works for anyone new but you can make a better film than Jim Conant

But it probably wouldn't do as well. I did even when we were doing stunt stuff like I would call it Jim Conant light

Yeah, and it just it was something that just worked for us

I'm like we were happy if you go did on that but I think for us it was always, you know

Hey, what's this other thing we could go chase? What's this other thing we could go do?

You know the one thing we never got to that

I was really interested in was like building like a really cool destination like a place that people were gonna come and like

Experience it and we called it Hoonigan land and it was this concept of like how do we do this really cool place like a place that lives?

like

They're not like an event or like no like a permanent place like something like I would it was gonna start as like a

Traveling show and it was gonna be something that grew out from burn yard

But the idea was like it eventually becomes this place for other people and like I know like Cletus has freedom factory and like that

I thought was a brilliant concept

But this was more like what is the Disney world for guys look like right like how could you come and do this?

Because one of the coolest things and I don't know if you guys really ever got to experience this at Donut

But like with our both the Long Beach office and the Compton office

We had a store and like getting to meet people who just randomly would come to the store

It was crazy because none of them were from LA or OC

Everybody was like coming into town. Yeah elsewhere and it became this thing like hey

I came into town to go actually to go to Disneyland and while I'm here

I had to stop by and check out Hoonigan or the dad had to come by Hoonigan or whatever

And I realized like man

This just doesn't exist like there isn't this thing that brings everybody to one place in automotive

And there should be because there's all of us right there's so many of us here

And I remember when I came to LA for the first time like going to a couple dealerships

it really used to be this like motorsports bookstore on

Santa Monica Boulevard back in the day and like

You know you'd go check a couple boxes

But there wasn't like this one cool place to go and like that was this thing

We were working on like right as the company sold and then it never happened. I will say that like I think we

Got really good at

making

Like videos, you know, like you guys were hyper focused. Yeah, and we didn't do anything else

Yeah, like we made we did pretty well with you know apparel and stuff, but like as far as

like building out the brand like you guys had like burn yard and

We we were like kind of like just in the content mind

Yeah, but you guys were I mean your owners were media people

Yeah, right like I was a media person who kind of enjoyed branding Ken was a brand and marketing person who

Content was just something to tell a story with you know, so I think there was always this like hey

How can we do this? How can we do the next thing? How can we do the next thing?

Do you I think to actually is a bit of our failure because I think with some one point we were doing way too much

We're just way too much going on you think that was a failure point

Oh for sure

Yeah, sure because I was spread across so many things and I would start something and then I would move to something else and then

My void would be felt on that thing because like I didn't really ever replace myself

There were there was a lot everyone did their own thing and everyone kind of got to a point where like very few people were

Replaceable right like we didn't have a lot of redundancy and realize like Vinnie was on camera

But he was also our number one sales guy

Yeah, so it's like everybody was doing two jobs and it worked really well until it didn't right, you know

Like nobody was just talent

It wasn't till like the last few months that we started to move people's like talent only deals and that didn't work either

Because then they weren't in the building all the time and the vibe changed but like people

They didn't want to do all the talent and then also be at work all day. I'd say that

Was for me when the vibe changed at Donut, right like we all were writers or producers or like when I got hired at

Donut, I wrote like I was a copywriter. I just I wrote sales decks

Okay, and I think there is something to be said about like you're saying like startup mentality and

Kind of being involved in everything and then once you're finally on camera

You kind of like you're all sort of speaking the same language and right moving the boat in the same direction

And then eventually you're showing up to do a shoot and you're there for three hours

And like it just doesn't again. It's like I think it lacks authenticity and well

I think something that's really interesting is like our start was was not intentional, right?

Like we had all this camera equipment. We were doing a bunch of like agency work level stuff and

That was what the business like that was our business, right?

And actually we were making more money off of white label and doing that kind of stuff like we did

You know, we launched the new Can-Am X-Ray when it came out

We were doing all those kind of things as well as making Jim Conno films and one day

I was just like let's go make some cool stuff for YouTube like we have the equipment like let's just make it with the people

We have right and we launched daily transmission and that sort of became this thing

Yeah, and it wasn't intentional like we never sat there and like sat and like wrote out an idea

It was more like hey, just quick ideas. Let's go run with them

Nobody was supposed to be talent people just became talent, right?

Like it was all very sort of like natural

And that worked really well until I think the expectation was to make more and more and more and then all of a sudden

And it went from being, you know, very unintentional to very intentional, right?

And like I think some of that really intentional stuff was fantastic, but I think there's a lot of times you're just like

Okay, this was a lot more fun when we were just going out in the yard and filming it

But you can't do that forever. Like it's impossible. It just doesn't work like every I don't think it's because we hear from people

All the time. Oh daily transition was the best show like why won't you guys make it again?

It's like it's like a band's first album dude

I say that all the time like I watched the that first season of high-lows like the first time we built cars and we like rented

This shop in Santa Carita and we like turboed these two 350 Zs and like watching that

Series, there's no way any of us would do that. No, like we were up for like 48 hours

Working and we were all making like 60 grand a year and like there's just no way we would do that and

You know, we were that was like at the beginning of donut where we were also like working seven days a week because we just liked hanging out with each other

Yeah, and we were all just like really this group of friends

We all lived within like two miles of each other and would if we weren't in the office

we were hanging out in each other's houses and

We were just like we were at that point

we were just rolling cameras and working on cars and like just kind of stoked to be there and

I think the the magic of that really lies in

The time and I think you know leaving doughnut and starting speed like as a much older person and a much different position in my life

You know, I went through like a long

period of like sort of like resentment and then like kind of mourning the loss of this awesome thing that I did and then

Kind of thinking like oh, how do I do that again?

But then I heard like Jerry Seinfeld talk about Seinfeld and he was like it was lightning in a bottle

He was like that group of people to come together at that time when all of that worked

Like everything going on outside of the show and then for all those people to be at the point in their lives where they could like

dedicate

themselves in that way to that thing like what a

fortunate position to be put in by the universe and just like

You know, it's like where YouTube was where

Automotive content was where the automotive industry was where Jesse was where I was where Matt Levin was where like you were where hurt

Was where Vin was to all come together at that moment and like make this thing

Like dude, how fortunate we were to be able to just be a part of that thing

I totally agree people all the time will come to me like man

I'm so sorry about what happened such and such so I'm like and I just steal the cliche of like man

We were there for a good time not a long time

Yeah, like it was so much fun when it was going on

Yeah, and I look back at it now and it's almost like any relationship like I think like you get out of a relationship when you're first

Out of it. You're like you hate the person. Yeah, and you hate their new boy. You hate their new boyfriend

You hate their new this and you can't believe that you never like their dog anyway and whatever it is

Think that they're actually fucked up

And like you did you go through all of that and then you you hate your friends who still hang out

I 100 like why do you still follow dude? Why do you? Yeah?

Yeah, and you go through all of that and then you meet someone else and you you sort of fill those voids that were in your life

And then you look back and you're like, I don't know. Yeah feelings anymore

Yeah, and that's like a bit of where I'm out of like man

It was such a good time that I had with those boys and like got to do all this really cool stuff and would have fun like

punk rock DIY era of my life where we just got we had the

Privilege just go make whatever we wanted. Hey, you want to make a car show that's like mythbusters

We're gonna call it scumbag labs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, great

We can do that like that's totally the kind of show

We want to make and it was like we got to take this time and make all the stuff that like

Discovery channel would have never greenlit for us because it was either too weird or it was too provocative

Or it didn't like land on the the steps that like a three-act show for them needed to be and you say that and I think it brings up I

Think both of us come from a

Place where like before we were doing YouTube videos

We were able like we were in the rooms and having those conversations like we could talk to discovery

Get a meeting with

Like a TV channel and the reason that we were doing the stuff that we were doing is because those guys

Didn't get it and like they would never let us so we both of us were like well

I'm gonna do it myself

Yeah, and in that time of and that's why we went into YouTube and in that time of us being like fuck it

I'm just gonna do it myself that entire industry just went away and now all my friends or all these people I know who are like

Doing that are like man. You really you really saw the writing on the wall

You really like got out and like started the YouTube thing like right at the perfect time and I'm like oh, no

I didn't do this on purpose

I was I was giving up. Yeah. I was just failing

I was yeah, I was giving up and I just like

Stumbled into the right decision dude Ben Conrad and I pitched Netflix a show in like

2015 so this is two years before Hoonigan ever does daily transmission a year or so before a doughnut

We pitched them a show with Chris Harris who then later on went on to go to Top Gear and Todd Richards pro snowboarder

as like

Anthony Bourdain type kind of like no reservation show and we went and pitched on the show idea and like we thought it was great

They obviously never made it and I think that was one of those things where I was like man

This show sounds so perfect like they didn't understand who Chris Harris was like they didn't get it

And then like then you go and you watch those pieces like work later on

You're like they just didn't understand it and that was like I guess we'll just go make stuff for YouTube. Yeah

Yeah, I don't know totally do you let me I want to kind of go back to something we were saying before which was you were

mentioning how

There's this lightning in the bottle moment like you're at speed now

I'm here doing my own thing and as like I start to think about working with new teams like how do you keep that?

Like how like even it may never be lightning in a bottle

But it could still be something pretty good in a bottle like how do you stop that from going away?

Like like as someone who went through it and I don't know and again

This is might be the longest conversation that you and I will have had

because you and I

Saw each other at events in between things

We obviously worked on drifter together

But that was like very focused on what we're doing

And I think Jeff punks was just like kind of like a cool like kickback kind of moment where we just got to chill a little bit

Right, so I don't really know that much on your your your perception

But I've heard from other people who've been in around on it like and it's anything at Hoonigan

You put too many people in the same room that are creative and and things change private equity comes in all this stuff happens

You eventually get to a point where?

It's sour as a bit. It sounds like it's sour like how do you stop that now?

Like how would you do it different? Do you have an idea? Do you think about that? Is it something that's in your brain?

I mean, I think like

We're only a little over a year into speed

But I mean so speed is me Jesse would Zach red path

SR and

Now Tim Moore, and then we have another editor this guy Tom, but like the four owners are me Zach Jesse SR

So me is me Jesse is Jesse

Zach is

Just an amazing director and a really great writer and just a guy that like I mentioned him in my why I'm leaving doughnut video

Just like we did season two of high-low

We all were like we got stuck on the side of a mountain like it was just sort of like I quit for a week

Zach was like I'm moving to Paris and

We were like well, we'll give you like a promotion like a full-time like contract like job

He's like no, I'm just gonna like go to Paris and

So like almost immediately like when we started speed

I was like we got to get red path and so like he was the first guy

I actually pitched speed to he was the first person that heard the name the first and because I was telling him

I told him and Matt Levin

Because I was nervous to tell Jesse and I thought if both of them liked it

Then I could tell him that they both liked it because he respected both of them right right so and then SR

Who is like just this amazing editor?

And the four of us own speed right now. Oh nice, and so I think

To me like

Donut we just tried so much stuff and we had no idea what we were doing and like I didn't even know like

The industry I was entering into all I knew was like I was kind of sick of doing what I was doing

And I really liked these guys and now I get to hang out

And so like it evolved so many times and changed what it was so much

Speed is much more intentional. I think and I think ever like we're older than we were and

All of us have a lot more experience like we all came from doughnut and so I think like

Speed is very much a second band

Like I have no desire to make speed as

Big as doughnut, right? I just wanted to be

cooler

Yeah, and more

Intentional and so I think that like all of us are on the same page with that like

Intentional like it's speed is on purpose

Whereas like doughnut was the only thing that we were playing like wanted to do is be bigger

Right, right and let's just like be more popular and be bigger and like we don't know what we're doing like this worked

Maybe that worked and I think like there's still that element with speed like I say like every time we

Make a video in a new genre

We're sort of asking permission to be able to talk about that stuff like oh, are we allowed to talk about clothes, right?

Are we allowed to talk about?

Outdoors stuff both of those were yes. Are we allowed to talk about crypto? That was a no

And so I'd say like

To me it's just like a much smaller team

much

smaller like outward ambitions and

just like the project and

Like how it looks and how it feels and how it's like presented I'd say is like

Much more mature and much more intentional. So I think like

We're all I don't know just like very much on the same page

And I think we're all working on the same thing

I think the aspiration thing is the most important like when we were doing again

It was always like how do you get bigger totally? How do you get bigger? How do you have more audience?

How do you have more views? How do you have how do you sell more product?

And it was all about like this weird like numbers chase. Yeah, and

It wasn't until I left that I realized that

If you're like at some point like you know our total our total number was like this 25 million

You know audience number based on multiple channels all this stuff, right?

And you're like if you're trying if you're looking to reach 26 million what you're not doing is servicing like the original core

500,000 or the original core million people who who ride or die with you every day instead like you're continuing to broaden this audience

And how could that actually really be good, right?

Because if you and I think you and I go back to the same analogy you keep going back to your favorite band

The minute your band makes a song to sell on the radio or to be an MTV hit I might be

Dating myself, but you know or to hit those numbers on Spotify

It's like or to become a tiktok song

They are now losing the the whole thing that made you like them to begin, right?

And but it's also difficult because at the same time I respect from bands where it's like that first album

You don't want to make it anymore because you've already made it

So it's like sometimes repeating the first album over and over and over again is also just trying to like continue to capture

Lighting in a bottle versus go do something new

Totally and get that bag, you know what I mean

absolutely, but I think

It's just a different kind of project and I think like kind of culturally right now I

Feel like there was like this time for about a decade where

just everyone like had this attitude where it's like

Like you and I are similar ages like growing up in the early

2000 I have no idea how old you are. Yeah, I have no idea how do I was gonna say you could be anywhere from 35 to 44

Hell, yeah, you live in that you live in there. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. You know how old I am 43. Oh, thanks. I'm 46

Appreciate the down

The other day heard told me I was 50. So, you know

I

Think there's this period where like

We all just kind of agreed where it's like if it doesn't

Like even if it sucks if a lot of people like it, you got to admit it's good

Mm-hmm, like whereas like I think we do that's true

No, yeah, I don't I used to but I don't think so. Yeah, and I think that

It's sort of an opinion. I'm trying to form

Well the other day because I want to the other day we were on a panel and you said something that I don't think it's a hot

Take but I think it's a take people don't want to say which is people will say like oh, you know, it's you know

My stuff's not doing well because of whatever because of the algorithm because of this or because of that and you said something like

It may just not be good. Yeah, right?

Like you have to like take that as a potential variable and a lot of times it can a lot of times

It isn't good and it's still popular

That is true. I'd say yeah, and like there's a there's different ways to be good

Like mr. Beast is very good at the algorithm, right? And he's very good at attention hacking

little kids

Does mr. Beast make good things? No, he sucks

He's a piece of shit and he's bad for just tell it right to the camera. There you go bad for culture

He's bad for kids. We should call that out and like

The dude sucks, but he's very he's technically very good at specific things and I think in YouTube

I think it's kind of maybe dying, but there was a period where like

Everyone was like, you know who the best is mr. Beast and you can't argue with the numbers. Yeah, I think that like

more and more

that sort of like proven to be damaging across culture and

I'm hoping that we're moving

more towards like a time when

When you and I were growing up where it's like you should call out shitty stuff and his stuff is like bad

We should say it and I don't I want to encourage people as much as we used to yeah

I agree. I mean, I think that you know, you hear this in the car world where people are like, you know, what's the

What's that saying? Like respect all bills. Yeah, like no dude

It's like I

Respect that you love your own car. Yeah, like that's cool

But like, you know, some kids are ugly like you just got to call it what it is sometimes

Totally, and I'm not here to like shit on other people's stuff, but like not everything's great either

So I think the same thing comes to content and I'm not here to say bring bullying back

Because I also think that a lot of the all of the people who make that statement is like bring bullying back

It's like motherfucker

You're the one I'd be bullying like you're the one who I think needs to shut the fuck up

You're the one who I think doesn't need a voice

You're dumb like you've never read a book quit telling people what to do you fuck from two white guys with beards on a pod

Yeah, yeah, but the thing dude

It's like I I won't apologize for it because I work hard and like I work with talented people and we study and we and you

Do too like you guys know what you're doing what I'm

Offended by currently is like there's just so many people

Everyone has a voice now, and I think that like

There's just too much fucking noise, and I and I think that like I

Don't know get good at something like you got to deserve it

I think and I think you does it you you earn it by

Learning how to do it so I'm over fake it till you make it and now I'm on learn it till you earn it

Okay, I'm into that one. I like that. I you know, I think you and I both also came from a world where

We were already on a media path before yeah

The internet became like before kids were like I want to grow up and become a youtuber

Like you and I were already doing media and I used to always say this like I may not always work in automotive

But like I'll always work in media because I just really enjoy media like media for me is the is the

Medium and it's like I just enjoy telling stories whether it's written whether it's podcast whether it's video

Hopefully eventually more feature films

But for a lot of other people

It's just like a route to success. Yeah, it's like hey

I want to go do the things I love and

Get paid to go do them which I think was like a massive appeal from vlogging

Yeah, everybody was like I'm gonna just go make videos about the stuff that I do and like that's gonna make me really successful

And it really over saturated the space and not everyone's really good at telling the story

Like I think that is the main thing that separates it and then other people just do the like hey

I'm just gonna do a really really hot take because it's

That's the thing that it's rage bait

If you want to go on vacation and like people want to watch you do it get the fucking bag, but I

Don't like takes

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And if you have similar habits, maybe you too should try FCP euro.com. I don't like takes

I don't like hot takes, but you're also a take guy though

I'm not really a take guy. Again, I the other day, didn't you say 9-elevens or like dunks or something like that?

9-elevens are like dunks, dude. Yeah, but I I think overall

Hot take culture is like melting our brains. Yeah, there's like no nuance and there's no real conversation

I'll have a conversation. You know subway takes. Yeah. Yeah, the most recently one of the most recent guests

He had on said the that hot takes are ruining culture. I was like that's

I don't want to shit on I mean, I support people and I just think like, you know, it's

It's rough out there in the world, man. So I'm thinking a lot about what's wrong. Yeah, I also think like I'm

I'm one of those people who have

To thank YouTube for so much. It's done for me in my life

But I'm also a little angry at what it's doing now for like the creative curve

Like it feels like YouTube really sort of flattens that like it forces everybody to make similar content because it

what's work it works well where

it when I first

Discovered YouTube it was this like non gate kept place that you could put anything up on you can make a

You know eight minute video of you know driving a car through an abandoned airfield and it could work

you can make a video about how to pronunciation eight words and

Where almost no clothes and it worked like there was all these like you could make this video about like how to build

You know a log cabin and it worked right still crush. They do crush

Yeah, I I don't want to get into that, but that's like a whole great space. You see the one where like the guy like digs out

Well, we'll talk about later. There's so many good asmr off-grid bills. So good. I just like

The best and they crush they get like eight million views

even if if I see a thumbnail of like a rusty revolver found at the bottom of a lake and then like right next to is the

Before-and-after like perfect finish. I'm like, I'm gonna watch this like I don't even like guns

But I'm gonna sit here and watch this for you know for two and a half hours as this guy painstakingly

Restores and like pops all the rivets out forward four-day lean to winter camp

Best yeah, but anyway back to it like I just think that that it sort of created a model where all the content like feels the same

Is that something that you feel I do but I think that

It's up to us to change that and I feel like so many of my peers

Are like, well, I don't know what to do like YouTube and like the algorithm and then just want us to make like

Crap and I think I told I was on calling in Samir recently and I said this where I think with YouTube

We've self-inflicted all of the worst parts about the Hollywood studio system

Where we can make whatever we want, but we're only willing to make hits

right and so like we're only willing to like

Nobody's telling us what to do like we're independent artists for the most part especially now

That I think private equity experiment failed in YouTube, but like I think there is like they're gonna be

especially after you know

You guys went through what you went through we went through what we went through and just like overall just like

It's not really a scalable business in the way that people thought it was it would be

Like you can't scale a band no, you know, and so I think that I

Think that there could and will be this like middle-class

YouTube creator

space

That doesn't

Play by those rules. I think like it got grotesque for a while

You know, and I think mr. Beast and guys like that aren't responsible for it

We're like all of a sudden you're introducing

Like the dude spending millions of dollars on a video like he's spending more money on a 20-minute video than

People spend on feature films right and he's getting numbers that

For whatever like there's no categories in YouTube so like even though like most of the audience is four to seven years old

We're still held to sort of like the same standard and it's like well

If this guy like locked a guy in a room and he got a hundred and fifty million views like what are you guys doing and I think

that like

YouTube is this amazing place where like we can make awesome stuff and we can self publish it

We can self fund it and I think the main thing that's standing in our way is us and like our

Just like agreement to make sloppy shit, you know, I want to encourage people to like I

Don't know

I think like where we did it last year where we took some risks and like kind of led with like I

Want to make this video and this year we're planning to do it more like

We just had our last meeting of the year and I was like alright next year

I want to continue to dare people to not watch our videos. Yeah, I'm totally into that

I you guys did the car heart video

I think was like the second video or something. Yeah, and I remember

Thinking like that was really smart because immediately you have told people this isn't just a car channel

Yeah, and we're gonna I'm gonna do whatever I want to do and just create this like different space than what I think you guys had

Very much locked yourself into his donut and I think for Hoonigan. We dealt with this a lot, which was like early on

We were just like

Burnouts and drifting and some rally stuff and then it's like how do you keep expanding the brand and at a certain point?

I actually felt like we were expanding it maybe too far like it was doing too much

But it was part of that grow grow grow grow thing and like how do you keep speaking to a bigger and bigger audience?

But on the flip side of things like with what I'm doing

Like I'm uploading two hour long podcast to YouTube. That is exactly what they don't want right like it's not the watch time

They want it doesn't check all boxes, but like I don't really care

Like I built my business model on it not being

Successful by being the most amount of views because I think if you build the model around trying to make money on YouTube

Then you are imprisoned by the algorithm in the way that all works

But if you sit there and say hey, I'm gonna make this thing and it's either gonna make money elsewhere for me

Or I've got partners that sort of understand what I'm trying to do

And I'm not sitting there chasing a particular metric and like or you you lower the bar of what you want

To go and do and then keep it there

It allows you to take more experiments and just like kind of go have fun stuff versus getting stuck in that

We always make this because this works like this versus that became that show. It was super successful

It was easy to make it was low-budget

It was the winning show for us on YouTube but averaged a million views an episode like and we could record eight of them in a day

Yeah, like think of how nice that is, right?

Really good

Yeah, like the the business people hear that right but

Arguably the views

Said that that was one of the most success not one of it was the most successful show we did on Hoonigan

The fan base said the opposite right like the audience that was watching it was bummed by it because they missed

The banter between people but that show had a ceiling of how good it was gonna of how big it was gonna get

So we had to do something else because we were chasing this other goal

And I think it goes back to your ambition thing before which is like setting lower ambitions. I think it's actually really valuable

I've do you don't mark Arsenal? Oh, yeah, so mark like

I'm one of the reasons I quit. Oh really? Yeah, why he's just like a guy who was

Successful yeah in

places that I

Wanted to be okay, just like I respected what he's done

and

Like he yeah, I think you were too like there are a few guys who are just like yeah fuck it man get out of there

So like without me prodding like I was kind of talking to him

But because we got the zoomies thing and I was yeah, I felt kind of burnt by that

He was like, oh, yeah, you should just leave and start your own thing. He's like I'll start a company with you

Yeah, it's Mark's got like a hundred. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, all right

So it's interesting. So I had a similar conversation with Mark and it was over zoomie

So real quick rewind, you know fat lace illus really kind of one of the first like

Universal automotive brands, right? Like something that wasn't specifically drifting or specifically one kind of racing or you know

specifically like JDM like I felt like they were somewhat broad and what they were doing and

So when Hoonigan came around they had already been around for like a year or two and I

You know, I met him through building my 9-11, right? It's because that was like the whole RWB thing in the US

so when it first started and

So he was great with me early on like considering that like you could think of us as competitors

Like he would just what if I had a question whether it was

Types of shirts to use or how different rollouts have worked or so on

You know, I would go to him and he was great. I was really I really enjoyed his sort of

Professional friendship through that period and then

Hoonigan started to like really hockey stick and like we ended up in zoomies before them did all the stuff so and so on and

You know from my side because I'm a big competitive person. I sat there going. Oh, yeah, we're winning

Yeah, like we're winning because like we're crushing them, right?

So he called me one night and he said hey, like, you know, I'm thinking about going to zoomies

You know, they've approached me and so on because Hoonigan was the first automotive brand in in zoomies

Yeah, we broke through that which was not an easy guys did crazy and we did crazy numbers

Yeah, we did all doors. We did a 40 door test and then

Within 40 days, we were all doors. Yeah, we were the fastest growing brand to ever go to zoomies at that point

We the only other brand that went faster than us was Little Wayne's brand

But there was like a stipulation behind it because they had like a major like spend to support it and it was like a limited time

So they've exploded and it was a good it's one of the reasons we did content

So like I thank it for that, but I think I wish we could have slow played it because it put so much focus on us

Just dealing with that like it was an expansion. We weren't ready for it

It was like 10 employees and all of a sudden we're in 600 stores in the malls

But anyway to go to get back to the mark story mark was

Going there and we were talking and we're talking about something and he just said to me

He's like, I don't know man. I just

He's like, I don't know. I just don't know like if I really want like illus to like grow that big

You know, like I kind of enjoy it at the size it's at now and when he said that to me. He's like, I just it's just easy

It's like he's gonna maintain and I didn't see it as real like I thought he was lying to being like

Oh, yeah, of course, that's what you say to the guy who built the more the brand that you know

shadowed their brand and then all of a sudden like I woke up one day and I was like fuck mark was right

Mark was right because like I don't enjoy this anymore. Right. I stopped enjoying this. This now feels like a job

yeah, and

The brand is also

Abandoning some of its early fan base to continue to grow and do all this stuff and it was it was this tough world because I

Did enjoy the success and like that definitely fueled me was the success of making something that did well

But I could look back at it now and go

Yeah, mark was right like yeah, keeping something to a certain size like for me 15 people was the greatest size

Hoonigan was not that I didn't enjoy the you know, 80 or so people who moved through the doors

like I loved working with almost all of them, but

There was certainly this like sweet spot

Around 14 to 15 and the way I say it is like if you can't

Fit your entire crew into like too many vans to go get lunch like it's it's the wrong size crew

Like if you still can't get a table to feed your whole your whole gang like at you know

Sizzler because soon if you used to run a sizzler was a good time

Like you you just don't like you've gotten too big right in the minute

We all started taking lunch separately was like when the business changed and like that's a just a nice size company

That I enjoy it'll never be as successful as something that's bigger, but like man

That's like a really good but it's not it's like what is success. Yeah, exactly. You know, I'm sure mark still likes illest

Well, he sold it

No, and I think I think he did let it get a little too big actually if you were to ask him

I mean he'd be a good person to talk to but he's no it's funny though

Both of us sort of had that similar moment with mark wonder if that was like a cultural like time thing just like scaling

Yeah, like if that was like a 2010s tech

Well, he also though came from Nike was working at a big company knew that I never really worked at a big company

I worked at like a medium-sized publishing company that ran like this chaotic

You know operation because it was mostly hip-hop and music like, you know magazines

So it wasn't particularly an organized business and then I went to go work for Hoonigan

So yeah, I never really had that experience of what wheel pros was which like

Yeah, they were just a big business and had like a lot of moving parts on a lot of zoom meetings

Not just what actually teams meetings, which is the worst. Yeah, you Microsoft. Yeah hate it so much

I mean do you think that like

Like for me scaling donut to that big like even selling

Donut was like

To me it was like validating, you know, and I think that there's

Like now that I've done that I don't

It's not that like I didn't like it, but like it's not the reason

Like now I don't have to do that like I've done that, you know, and you've done it

I think, you know, even more with Hoonigan where it's like, oh cool. I I

That with that project the goal was to make it as big as possible. Yeah. Yeah, and

Like under these metrics and I did that. Yeah, and that was cool

And so I think it's like

It's like smaller ambitions, but also like different ambitions because I think

Like with the current project before we knew what we were gonna do all we knew was Jesse and I were gonna do something together

and he was like, okay, so

We need to be okay with the idea that it's gonna be way smaller from the outside

But it's gonna feel way bigger on the inside like from the inside. It's gonna be bigger for us

I was like, that's cool. And so I think that like

there are more

Like the ambitions are still there. They're just like different

Yeah, I think like a consistency of like the artistry of all the videos. I think the voice is more consistent

I think trying to do

Again, like daring people not to watch our videos. I think that's in a lot of ways harder

and

so I think like

There's they're more nuanced

Ambitions rather than just like nuances everything like I live if you were to ask me what motivates me

It's nuanced like I love the little nuance stuff. It's like what's what makes everything I can tell with tref punks

That shit was like so well run

Do we want to jump subjects now because by the way, yeah

I like this is to me this podcast is just starting because I was literally gonna say

Like we don't really know each other that well

But like here's three topics we should talk about and then we just spun out on kind of

Donut thing the free I need it

I want to stop doing that because people keep having me on podcast and like ask me questions about YouTube and I'm like

I should like charge

Yeah, it's an interesting space

I'm happy to have that combo with you though because I feel like we both were I think you guys did the YouTube thing better than we did

Mm-hmm. I think you guys did the brand thing better. Yeah. Yeah, that was like where our focus was

I was unwilling to do things for the algorithm

We're like, I know that you guys were very

I'll go led because I knew Matt and I knew like how his brain worked

We're like I was only gonna do something if I wanted to make it and I would do thumbnails that were more

Like cooler looking even though they didn't work as well

Like all those things and it's funny now because now you get to a B test your thumbnails

I'm like, I don't even like how that one looks

Yeah, yeah, I'll still sometimes choose the one that I just

Like more even though it's gonna get me less. Yeah, we'll keep the big one for like four days

And then we'll swap it back to the one that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just because it looks better. So

Yeah, so

So this is an interesting one because like you and I both started in Volkswagen's

I actually think there's an incredible amount of people who started in Volkswagen's or

VW Vortex who now work in the industry

Yeah, more so than a lot of other like sort of marks

I don't really fully understand why that is but there's a lot of us. I think it's because in order to

Like shine on VW Vortex, it was almost more important to be funny

Yeah, and it was to have a cool car. Yeah. Yeah, you had to be like really good at crafting a thread

Like it was its own little media

I mean in a way forums, especially those kind of forums were like their own medium

And you had like all these different kind of people like crafting the right post like running the right build thread

Or just being a really funny commenter like if you're a car lounge guy

And you were just in it if you didn't have like a cool car

You could be funny and you can be a vortex all-star. Yeah, there's this guy

Chapel, do you know chapel? Do you know chapel? Didn't he have like a purple?

I don't even I don't even know a car he had but he was like the hero of the car lounge

And it's funny because he's now on my patreon

He basically runs is like the moderator there because he's just so good at like running community stuff

Which I think is like it's funny, but no vortex was great for that. When did you get into Volkswagen's one was like your

Early 2000s, I think I got my first

Volkswagen like 2002. Okay. What was it?

A 97 Windsor blue GTI VR6. Oh, yeah. Yeah, nice. Yeah, mine was my first one was in

97 95

Golf I wanted a mark one

GTI really bad

But my parents didn't want me to have a car that old and I had raised enough money to buy it

I was like, you know for like working in a snowboard shop and like doing all those different stuff and my dad and my mom said

How about this?

We'll we'll match you dollar to dollar if you buy a newer car and it's to this day the newest car I've ever owned

It was only 1995 so it was only two years old. Yeah, it was only two years old at the time

So it's like the newest car I've ever owned like I've never owned my GTI was to I've never owned anything that close to yeah

The on sale date at the deal is mine. Yeah, I guess back then it was five years old. Yeah

It's great. My news. Yeah, my newest car now is over 20 years old

The newest car I own and right now is my 2004 van in my 2002 S8

2004 G wagon. Yeah, everything I have is two decades old. Yeah, this is totally normal to me and not to my wife or any of my friends

Yeah, well my non-car friends, so

Yeah, I don't know man

It's like but it's it's interesting because like you came to chef bunks and for those listening

My friend Jason Whipple and I we did this event called chef bunks. I'll let you explain chef bunks actually instead of me explaining

I'd love to hear you explain. Here's how I what I tell people when they're like well when they were like

So what are you doing this weekend? I'm like, okay, so they used to be I

Preferably like being like all right. This is like the nerdiest thing 100% and I was like, all right

So there used to be this Volkswagen website called VW vortex and now a bunch of us are

in our 40s and

We can afford to buy the cars that we used to have or want and so these guys

made a camping trip and a bunch of guys either bought

new

old cars before the year 2000 or got their old cars that were built before the year 2000 running and

we're all

driving up the coast of California ish and

We rented a summer camp. That's pretty much it. Yeah, we were calling it a summer camp for middle-aged men

Yeah, pretty much it was so good. It was so fun. I'm happy you enjoyed. Yeah, it was

Usually when you're the person hosting an event, you don't enjoy it because like you're just so busy with all the logistics of it and making sure

Everything's going well, but like I thoroughly enjoyed it and like so the Whipple like it was just chill like it was really good

It was like good food. It's fun. Yeah, it was run really really well

very mature

Like everything was it's like very tight like you could tell that both of you have like built massive companies

But then it was like also super fun and it was cool being around

Cuz like you can go hang out with like drift guys anytime you want or like even like BMW guys like almost anytime you want

but it's very rare at least for me to be around a bunch of

Volkswagen guys who like know all the front lips and side skirts that I specifically know and

So that was like a real treat or like people who remember cars that I remember

Like then like actually I know where that car is or like I built that cars

There was actually this peak moment where we had coffee the next morning after the first night and less brought out a box of old

Performance VW magazines and everybody just sat there

Yeah going through and like reminiscing and I felt like man

This is like such that high school reunion moment where like people pull out the year

Look at you. Yeah. Yeah, thank you like a bunch of guys there had cars that were in the magazines

Yeah, we're inspired by them or stuff like that. So like yeah, it was a lot of fun

We're definitely gonna do another one this year. We also did it invite only not to be exclusive

There wasn't really the goal although if you ask Whipple, he'll probably say that because that's just kind of person

He is but it was more like

Just to control it and I hate to use the word curate because I feel like that words used so much

But we wanted it to be small and like matter and this actually goes to like back to the media thing

Do you know Foster Huntington? Mm-hmm. So I've said this multiple times on the pod

So if you need to get up and take a leak and you're a normal listener, this would be a good time. I

Was having like a really hard time at Hoonigan. I wanted to leave

this is right before Ken passed away and I decided that I was gonna go pick up the Saudi 4000 I had bought in

in

Vancouver and drive it down by myself and just have like for me

The only way I can really sort of like meditate and have a good thing is driving like long distances by myself

Like I'll drive for four hours and realize I like never turn the radio on right

So I pick up this car that barely runs and like fixing it the whole way home

And I go and I stop at Foster's house and Foster has these like really cool tree houses and like all this stuff

He has a cool like scape

He's like a little pool set up on his property like it's just like really rad space and he's the guy

Who started the van life hashtag like he's noted for it

We were just chatting and like you know

He's had these ups and downs in his own sort of career both in front of camera behind and he just said the simple thing to me

And I you know, I'm sure other people have said this but he's the one who said it to me

So I'm gonna give him the quote. He said do you want to mean a lot to a little right?

I mean a little too a lot or a lot too little and at Hoonigan

We definitely got to a point where we meant a little too a lot right tons of trucks with big Hoonigan stickers on them

But like they didn't really fully like understand the vibe or the brand or whatever it just became this massive thing

We were the number one sticker sold at zoomies. I think for the entire time Hoonigan was there

So you guys got to the point where I just kind of like monster

Energy where or no fear when we were young totally. Yeah, like having a Hoonigan sticker

Didn't necessarily mean you knew what Hoonigan was. It just meant you were a kind of guy. Yeah, exactly

and it became that thing and

And then I realized like man

I really really want to mean a lot to a little like that is like the space that I really enjoy being and

And that's why like I went to go do podcasts because like not as many people listen to him

I mean unless you're Joe Rogan, but like most people don't listen to him on that level and

But the people who do absorb it and listen for like two hours like I listen to the podcast

I listen to like I feel like an understanding for those people in a way that like I don't normally

I actually just started listening to smart lists just like yeah, it's week

And it's funny because I've always liked Jason Bateman and like but now it's like it's almost weird

Like I feel like I know him better because you like you you can't act for that long

Right on a podcast. You kind of just like let out who you are a little more. It's kind of like an enjoyable space

Yeah, I don't know it's just one of those things

I think for me the same thing with Tref punks

It was like I wanted this to be really good for 30 people

Yeah, and it was and like we didn't make money on it

We just wanted to go do it right like it was one of those things of like hey

Let's just go and make this cool thing that we would really enjoy being at and it's funny because it's more of what I want

To do now like I want to make books even if only a hundred people buy. Yeah, we're like there was so much stuff

We couldn't do it Hoonigan because it wasn't

Financially viable my pot this podcast is a perfect example

I was I mean I ran the company, but still every time I wanted to do a podcast everyone would be like

It's just too much work for like not the same return. Totally Jesse gets frustrated with me because I keep

Pitching ideas and I preface them like okay, so this isn't an idea that's gonna make us any money

And he's like well someday you're gonna have to come up with some that will

But I think we got a couple years before we actually have to yeah, but like I don't know like but you guys are doing well

You got out you have to get out of your brain that you're like

You're not supposed to be doing donut numbers, right?

You're still doing way bigger numbers than most people. Yeah, that's doing well and you're doing the stuff you want to do

Yeah, which is like the best part of what you're doing the fact that you can go and do a was it like a

1920s camping trip or something like that

And you could go do that and then you can also go do like a rant about like where Volkswagen sits today

And you have an audience that will watch both you have

Transcended a thing I think a lot of people don't transcend on YouTube, which is it's not about the subject matter anymore

It's about you guys like they're buying into the thing this matters because we like this

And and that's the stuff we want to tell you and like that's where my

World started I started in at Massapil magazine Massapil magazine before vice became vice Massapil was the mag in New York

And the magazine was literally just things we thought were cool. Yeah, right?

That's what it was. It was just things we thought we're cool

We had literally had a section in it called hey, you're cool

Yeah, where we would just interview people we thought were cool

Yeah, and you might not have any idea who they were but by us saying hey

We think this person's cool means that you should stop and read yeah, right?

And this was before like sneaker culture exploded to the level it was and you know

We were talking doing everything from sneakers to like fashion

That's interesting because I see a lot of stuff you're doing now

And I'm like man this feels like a video version a bit

It is 100% a magazine. Yeah, like it's

You know, we obviously not struggled but like starting anything you you wanted to find it especially if you're trying to like

Make money from people like sponsors and stuff. They want to know what it is

And I think like eventually what we landed on is speed is a men's style magazine and cars are a part of men's style

Yeah, yeah, so like it went from being like well well originally it was just men

It was gonna be doughnut for menswear. Oh, really? Yeah, that was like the initial idea

and I was gonna do like up to speed on like supreme and

Stoocene stuff like that and then like a few weeks into it. I was like, you know what I really do

miss cars

You and I about the same journey because I left him again did non-cars. Yeah

Yeah, we're went and did animation with super plastic and

For the first six months. I was like, I love not doing

Yeah, this is fantastic. I mean almost two thousand car videos

Yeah, it's it's I can't even count how many we made at this point. Yeah, we did

380 of daily transmission alone and we stopped making that in

2018 yeah, so it's like it just it's incredible the amount of content that people say like do what you love for a living

And you'll never work a day in your life

It's like no dude if you do what you love for a living find something else to love or else

You'll just want to kill you and I are too similar because I've said that a thousand times

My dad used to say it my both my parents are scientists and my dad you'd said to me at some point

You know do what you love and you know, you know, you'll never work a day in your life

And it's fucking bullshit if you do what you love you will work every week

Yeah minute of your life last night. I had this idea

I don't want to say it out loud yet, but I had this idea and I was so excited about it

I stayed up for like another two hours writing in my notebook and it's like it's cool because that's exciting

But that was like two hours that I wasn't sleeping in bed with my wife

Because because I was so

You know caught up on this like idea of more work of creating more work for myself. So yeah

Let's get back to Volkswagen's. Why do you think Volkswagen's right now?

at least in my opinion are having a bit of like a

Like a reboot because I mean Hagerty just announced like the mark 3

Golf is you know one of the cars to get this year. Yeah, obviously we've seen a couple like mark 1 rabbits

You know hit bring a trailer at some good numbers

I feel like a lot of my friends who I grew up with are getting back into them

Like do you think it's like an age thing or do you think it's do you think it's like a response to something?

I don't know. I have my own thoughts, but let me hear yours first. I think it's a

I think some of it's an age thing I think

You know, I think trends are just like cyclical

You know stuff is popular then it's not and then it is again

Kind of like skips a generation or something

I

Think that like it's probably influenced by the market where once

At least recently like once something is

Universally agreed up on to be like a cool thing

It and like it becomes eventually like

Inaccessible and so therefore becomes less cool like I bought the

The golf was that are the GT. I was actually my second car

My first car was an s13 240 sx that I bought for $3,000

In and it had like

So you were early on that because that was before those were cool like Mike my good friend Trevor's

Sister had an s14 that we would take to 711 to get stuff while we were working on his Volkswagen

Yeah, yeah, like never did I think of that car as cool

It was just the car that we would drive back and forth to 711. Yeah, I got my first

240 apparently the same year that Ryan Turk got his

I'm really to I'm early to every trend. Yeah, you really just let me that I just a taste maker

I really pay attention to things and I care about it

but

So like yeah, those cars used to be so cheap and my GTI cost like

Three times the amount of my s13 and I think that like a $3,000 s13 is like really cool

$20,000 s13 like is way different. You know what I mean? And yeah, I saw someone

I saw a tick tock of someone saying that like our culture feels stagnant because there's no cheap rent and

And you need to be able to you need to have cheap rent so that weirdos aren't homeless

Because now in order to just have a place to live

You can't just be a weirdo

You have to go work a normie job and then like you're not just like creating culture and I saw something similar

Someone was like Broadway is dying because they moved it to Times Square now. They're making stuff for people in Ohio where like

Plays and theater used to be a thing that locals went to because locals and students could afford to go to the theater and they are

Now they're spending so much money to produce the shows that they have to charge so much for tickets that nobody local like young and like

Actually cool can afford to go do it and I think

that

And one thing I'm kind of dealing with is like cool is decided by broke

weirdos

totally and so

Things that are cool that influence culture are the things that are accessible to broke weirdos and so I think that

Volkswagen's are cool. They're inherently cool, you know

Amazing history they look aesthetically they're very neat and I think that like it's just at the point where like

One guys like us remember them and we're like, oh, yeah, maybe I'll get one but then also I can tell a kid

That's a broke weirdo. Like you can afford a mark 3 golf

Yeah, you can buy a $3,000 golf and it's like a good car. Make it pretty cool. Make it pretty cool. Yeah, there's a recipe book out there

I thought it would be more tax go check out the reform go blow off the dust

Boot up the 56k yeah, yeah, yeah

Yeah, I you know

I grew up in New York City and I remember when you could live in you know

Towns in Brooklyn and close to the water in Queens where it was 500 bucks for rent, right?

And like that was normal and like that's all been pushed out

And that was definitely the broke weirdo error of like, oh, yeah

This is just a bunch of people who've all moved here and like want to go make something cool

That definitely doesn't exist anymore. Let's at least not in major cities

Yeah, I feel like it's moved to like other places and people are finding that in other small towns and stuff

And I I know you and Vinnie have a Detroit conversation. I don't know if that's public

We actually went back during the winter and I think we're less

I'm still I'm still into it. No, I like I get that like for me

I always like building the car. That's not cool. It's funny because I'll bring back up the 9-11 thing

You said the other day like obviously we're sitting right next to a 9-11. Yeah, but you had it when it was cool

Actually, no, but I actually bought it when it wasn't cool

I want this for so long and it's funny because Vinnie jokes that I only like things that other people don't like and that the minute

People start liking them. I don't like them. Yeah

I'll bitch and moan and complain like not a lot of not enough people like old Audis and because of that

There's a lot of parts and it's hard to find them and so on and so on but then the minute that they become trendy

I'm like, yeah, I'm done. Yeah. Yeah, totally. It's like that because you're you're a taste maker

I know I mean I'd love to hear that but I think there's also just something of like

I don't know if it's like just the striving to do it differently

Like even as a kid something as simple as jinkos were really big all my friends had jinkos literally and figured

Haha, yeah, and I would wear these other pants because I just didn't want to wear jinkos

Not because like and they were like the same price. So it wasn't like I bought the cheaper ones or the knockoffs

It's just that like everybody had jinkos and like there was something wired in me

That was like I don't want the same thing everyone else has

I think like my uncle had a lot to do with that when I was a kid like I would I listen

I like this one song because everyone else in school liked it. He was like that song's trash

Yeah, that's a bad song like why do you like it? It's like oh everyone else likes it

Mm-hmm. He's like, yeah, and then like he introduced me to like Led Zeppelin

He was like this is good music which it was but like it definitely made me

You know is one of those things of like I was very and it really stood out of like I

Purposely wanted to do be different. Yeah, they do something a little bit, which is almost impossible to do today

I think there's so much like there's so many people doing so many things

That the nuance is broader and easier to find it doesn't feel that different because to me

It's I listened to like I watched your one episode and I'll admit this and I'm sure the same for you

It was like I've barely watched any doughnut stuff

You probably barely watched any hoonigan stuff because like you're so busy

They're like you don't really watch other youtubers stuff, right?

But I watched your Volkswagen one because everybody was talking about it like in my community when you did it for speed and

I was watching I think one thing that was really interesting

Take that you had on it was I actually never thought Volkswagen's were cool, right when I was younger because Honda seemed so cool

To me right like you had super street sport compact car like Honda tuner

Like you know all of these magazines that were completely focused at the Honda industry

And like we had to buy our magazines at Barnes and Noble for $10 because they imported from Europe

Like it didn't feel like the culture was here

I felt like I was part of a culture that existed overseas and because of that it felt cool to me

Because when I went to you know, like Francis Lewis Boulevard in Queens

I was like one of few Volkswagen's and there was hundreds of civics

But it feels like your vision of it is a little different. Maybe that's because you came in a little bit later

Yeah, my vision of it was I lived in Louisville, Kentucky and

To me the exotic land where like all the Voltawagens were were like was like Long Island

Like Pennsylvania, yeah, and New Hampshire and all these like East Coast guys had these like

Sick builds and like, oh dude if I lived there like they all probably drive around with each other all the

weekend like all these like shows that you guys all like went to and

I was like some kid from the South that just like wasn't a part of it and like I don't know like

It's like a chicken or the egg thing

But all the music I listened to was from Long Island in New Jersey

So you big be a big emo fan. Yeah, well like post hardcore. Okay. Yeah

Yeah, yeah, like Bayside and thrice

Yeah, and so like and you know Voltawagens are the reason I dressed the way that I dressed and like the reason I started getting tattoos

And you know, it was just like I think I've always been attracted to

Sort of like a consistent aesthetic, right?

Like everything should kind of fit together and like contribute to like this one vision and to me I

Knew a bunch of Honda kids and

At that point again, they were like in Kentucky. So they're all like on house arrest

Like my friend wasn't where my head was going but no like my friend of Raymer like

Literally got arrested like I let him drive my GTI and he like just ripped down Shelbyville Road and

Got pulled over and had like a warrant and got arrested and like he was driving my car because like I had been drinking and like I

Yeah, like the cops arrested him and just like left me with my car

And I was like, how do I get home? Yeah, I'm just gonna like chill here

And then I guess I like called my dad or something, but like that was

Honda's to me and so like yeah having a Volkswagen. I was like

Classier, you know, like I bought my magazines

Barnes and Noble store. Yeah, you gotta go to a book. They had British pounds on them. Yeah, they're this big and

Yeah, like the the scene didn't exist where I lived. It was like close to New York

There's like a little bit more cosmopolitan

It's funny for you to say that because I ran a Volkswagen car club. Yeah, I know New York City

Long Island area called Auto Creek

Yeah, and like we did an event called full moon full throttle where every single month a hundred and fifty of us got together

Yeah, and thrash back roads and I'm so happy no one ever died because I look back at now as I'm older

I'm like man, that was so dangerous, but it was a lot of fun back then

So it was that community and it's interesting because I never thought about it this way, but here's the take

The Volkswagen scene was as close to

Skateboarding as car culture got before drifting

Oh, yeah, because I think that you really like created this like definition or maybe I think we had that like back in the day in hot

Rotting right like the greaser was like a look where like you could look at someone and be like that guy's probably into Volkswagen's

Because there was you're right like there was definitely a way everybody looked music everyone listened to I'm a bit older than you guys

But I listened to emo because I knew so many people in the Volkswagen community

So it was just like part of that culture like I grew up more on like, you know

Hardcore like New York Hardcore era and like punk rock and stuff like that and obviously 90s hip-hop

But like emo is this thing that I found because like guys like Mark Chiedemann was listening to taking back Sunday and his slam

Do you know mark through golf right? I mean what's more?

Subversive or like rebellious than doing something that other people don't understand and so like muscle cars you like get it

It's like they're at least back then is like they're fast. Yeah, that's it's a cool car

It's fast and then even Honda's and stuff like that. It was like well

They're faster or then a lot of even the muscle cars and they're cheaper and you know, there's all these like things you can do

Voltagons didn't make any sense. Like we were like, so why do you like it? It's like because I can barely even fucking drive it

It's so low I smacked the oil pan on the ground and I rubbed through my tires with my fenders. Is it fast?

There's only like four of them that are fast and those guys are barely even cool

It's actually true because a bunch of our guys we had fast cars

We had seen a performance

We had like the first nine second Jetta and all these things the guys were the more the faster your car was less cool

Yeah, totally Mark. She even had like a two-liter slammed, you know, Jynster with the fifth 15 inch

Yeah, yeah with the 15 inch. I see I know that car and there's a picture about this big in PVW that I

Yeah, like go over with like a magnifying glass to be like, oh look at those. I almost got 15 inch

TE or

TH TH's yeah, I almost got 15 inch TH line

Do you want to know a funny story about that and I mark if you're listening?

I hope I don't butcher this but Mark ordered those wheels. I think from tuning super horn, right?

And they show up and he puts them on the car and they don't fit

Yeah

So his mom is like furious at them because he's young. He's like 19 or 20

Yeah, his mom's like, I can't believe you did this like, you know, these wheels don't fit like you spend so much money on them

So she brings them down to like the local body shop and he basically goes to the body shop and says like hey

Can you make these fit and somehow some random guy at a body shop created a trend that pulling fenders that

Pulling fenders and like kind of the way that they did it that modified the way Volkswagen's looked

Yeah for like the next, you know, five ten years in the US right like that aggressively pull

Yeah, and look there were cars in Europe that had done similar stuff, but that car set the stage

It was a two-liter. It was really slow. Yeah. Yeah, but it was so I mean

It had to be a two-liter because if it was a VR

This is that weird Volkswagen nerd stuff

But you're like, oh, I could have more power, but then I couldn't go as well. I couldn't go as well

Yeah, or like you'd be like I could go to five log with bigger brakes

But then it pushes the wheels out. So yeah, you have a lot of suspension

You got plus suspension and while that's great for handling. It's not as cool for I think I'm gonna put a mark two rear beam on the

silver car

Is the mark two beam narrow? Yeah. Yeah, really? Yeah, I have I have the I've this set of

Schmidt race lights. Yeah. Yeah. That was on

Joey that white Jetta. Oh, yeah, and so like they're so wide that I have to like narrow the rear track

I love I just like the exact opposite of what everyone else does with cars like I want it wider wide body

You're like, no, I'm gonna narrow this run a bigger lip your wheel. Yeah. So well, I put 16 by 9s on it

I know we first put it together and dude

I am I have different tastes than I used to like I think the car looks it's really low now on 17s

But like my cortisol level was through the roof, but I don't know how you drove your car

So hammered on tref punks because your car was slammed. Thank you. Your car is slammed. Thank you

You don't you have no idea how much it meant to me to show up after years of like because again

I lived in Louisville, Kentucky away from like

Where all of these guys from BW vortex seemed to like hang out all the time

And I think I'm like younger than most of you guys

So like I like looked up to this group of people and like they were so formative and I think like the way I

Moved to LA and did comedy like it was a big part of like what made me different than everybody and to pull up

To a parking lot full of those guys ever them to be like hey your car's pretty low, huh?

Are you sitting here thinking oh my goodness, I've made it to an hour and a half and I could definitely use

Another 45 minutes of this. Well, guess what there is another 45 minutes of me and James talking

After the two and a half hours of this pod on my patreon another reason to join

By the way is being one of those guys on the other side

We all felt really old because I was like I don't think I could drive a car that low like it was the

Realization of like me looking at my car going. It's like pretty low like the tires and the fender and then you showed up just

Hammered yeah, which by the way, I feel like it's a term only folks like you guys appreciate your car is hammered

Like what does that mean? Yeah, it means it's so fucking low the floor that it basically doesn't drive

They get stuck on speed bumps

Like if you ever high-side on a speed bump and had to have everyone get out of the car to get through a speed bump

I had to on tref punks. I had

Because the driveway to our campsite was

You'd learn the obstacles. Yeah, learn the roads around you

And so yeah, I did kick someone I mean, I think owning a low Volkswagen

It's like you were like you wanted to like get into rock crawling, but I just wanted to do it like on a regular street

Yeah, like you need like someone to get out and navigate for you. You've got like go half up on a curve

Yeah, like you know, it's like you're doing the same thing as rock crawlers. You're just doing it on like a standard

Yeah, the two best ways to have fun going two miles an hour

Yeah, slammed Volkswagen or giant truck on 39 inch touch. Yeah, exactly. So what are you?

Are you gonna build another car for tref punks this year?

Are you gonna finish?

I would like to

Because you have two mark threes right now, right?

I do. One's really taken apart. The green car is basically a shell right now.

Is it rusty? Is that why you take it apart? Just start over with the new one.

Yeah, thank you for the permission.

I just hate to tell you like someone who grew up on the east coast

And now understands how sweet sweet sweet working on a non rusty car is and who just bought a mark three synchro

That's rusty. Yeah, it's like I just don't know why I'm doing it to myself again

Like the chassis is dry, but I'm removing everything else and it's just such a pain in the ass

But if the chassis is rusty just get something else and I like I don't have like a big warehouse to put cars anymore

I only want to own

So many cars and I really like how many is that many like what is that number?

I don't want more than five. I have

I really don't want more than three you sound like such an adult

Yeah, I want to I want to be able to fit all my cars

In my driveway. I have so many that I'm not really sure how many I have. Yeah, it's like either

24 25 or 26

I don't really but you have a farm if I had a farm it'd be a different

Yeah situation like I right now I want to like drive all of my cars

Yeah, and so like I really I haven't a mark three that I really like

Maybe I can I want to paint that one. I want to do the interior. I want to shave the bay

and I want to

probably

Do some like bodywork stuff. I really like bodywork stuff. I like doing the little things

And so like I don't know I'll either maybe like

Bring that back finished or I wouldn't mind something older

I was going to ask like do you like the mark ones the mark twos like you seem like a mark three guy, but

I had a westy mark two

I like those

On 13 inch th lines

By the way, for those listening a westy mark two is not something where the westphalia pop top

It is a car built in the westmoreland plant in pennsylvania that's shut down in 85 or 86

And then sold all of its tooling to china, which is why china still has jettus

Yeah, and so they'd had square headlights

Instead of round ones, but not the long and not long rectangles. Yeah, not wrecking. Yeah small

So that car was really cool. I had three speed automatic and ultra ultra lows and 13 inch th lines

um, and it was

Just like great condition at like 85,000 miles and like this just like perfect tweed interior

And it had exhaust. How many guys do you think say?

perfect

Like perfect tweed is such a that's a good brand name by the way perfect tweed

It's also a great name for a fucking postpunk post hardcore band. Fuck I'd go watch perfect tweed. Yeah. Yeah

Uh, and I loved that car. So I think I like a small bumper mark too. It'd be really cool

I think that's probably a sweet spot for me. Yeah, I'm um, I need to like cut down my collection and um

I'm actually thinking about doing it as a content series because it's not because I think it'll make good content

Although I do like I it's a story I want to tell

But I think it's something that'll actually motivate me to do it because like right now

I don't really have a reason to cut down my collection other than that it creates anxiety

Like I'm at the point now where I'd rather have

10 cars that all work

Then 25 cars where every one of them has a problem like even my cars that I drive a lot

Have issues that I just don't deal with because it's like

Oh, I could deal with this but this one has a bigger issue right now

Right, right like so I think like having a better collection of 10 is more important than having all of them

But then at the same time like I don't know I like having them all

Yeah, squeaky door gets the squeaky wheel gets the

Yeah, it definitely is and it's also one of those like so like for me like my perfect Volkswagen collection

Like I have my mark 3 that I'm building right now

um

My first my first Volkswagen, you know, my first car was a black four-wheel golf

And I then vr swapped it and if I could have synchro swapped that I would have I jumped ahead

You vr swapped it in 18 hours with two

You know this story because because dude, I did my

07k swap in the silver car. Yeah in 47 hours

Uh

Basically to go to trevpunks, which is incredible. Yeah, and I posted it in the whatsapp group

And I was like damn dude, that's so fast and you go

That's nothing

18 years old queen's new york dead of winter

All they had was

All he had was a harbor freight eight piece tool set two cans of oe

And a half pack of new ports did it in 12 and a half hours drove it to school the next morning

True story 17 hours, but true story me and my buddy my my buddy trevor did it. Yeah, so

Yeah, I just don't have energy like that anymore. Now. I can't even like change my oil in 17 hours

And he was just like dude fucking scato, bro

That's like the equivalent though of like me telling my albundi story. It's like I'm just trying to relive him

Yeah, which I still lived in like I wish I still was able to you know

Four touchdowns at pulp or whatever it was. Yeah. No, I um

I have that I have my mark three and like that's a cool project. I'm just gonna make it a driver

I think I'm gonna finally build my swallowtail this year for trevpunks because like that's a car that looks really good on the internet

My green rabbit. Yeah, it's a car that looks really good on the internet, but like he's doing an abf or you have that 1.4

I'm actually gonna build no

I'm actually gonna build an eight valve for it. So whipples

I originally was gonna put the abf in there and the more I drove the car

The more I realized like I wanted to feel like stuff like this gives me hope for like the going back to the youtube

Conversation we're having and like the algorithm and things like that

So many guys I know

Who have built the most insane cars?

Are now building like eight valve rabbits or have you seen stef papa docus is supra?

No, just like I've seen his rav 4 which is fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah his rav 4 he built himself like a supra

It has like 360 horsepower, but it's just nice. Yeah

And I think jason is the same way like jason's built an insane like y body jason's mark 3

Formula v. Perfect. Whatever. Yeah, his mark 3 is perfect. His mark 2

is

Probably my favorite car at trevpunks, which was basically a stock is stock. Yeah, which is like yeah

And so I think a lot of us whether it's

Older I really do think it is like a trend is like we're moving back into like these

Nuanced versions of cool because we were at a point and like you partook where it's like it was a big part

I once I once thought it was a good idea for us to take a Honda Ridgeline and put an indie car. Yeah. Yeah

and

you know

Now that we've made 3000 horsepower 1200 horsepower

It's not that fun. No, and there's other things that you can do with cars. And so I think like

seeing that

that movement in the automotive world gives me hope for

Just kind of like everything moving that way because everything kind of moves together in culture. Yeah, I mean

Like music is moving more towards like geese is like one of the biggest bands in the world right now

And just sort of like I think we're moving more towards like an analog

sort of like slower

More artistic

sort of like time

I agree and I also think people just like

Like tangible stuff more and can appreciate again to use the word nuance

That's like the pb playhouse word of the day of like just a little stuff like for me

I'll be very honest

I found an opt valve cover for an eight valve and that was enough for me to build the engine

To be like this valve cover is super rare and really cool

And I want to put it on something

And instead of putting a better engine with more power in the car

I'm going to put this other engine in and then just build it in a really cool way and whip will actually build it for me

So it's like because he really enjoys engine building. That's just like not how my brain is wired

But that's too nervous. He's good at yeah, he's really good at like just I'm going to spend hours measuring this

You know, so um, but for me, I think it's I've been enjoying that sort of

Going backwards from everything has to be insane

To like hey, this could just be a normal car

But like really cool to me and that's all that really means. Yeah. Yeah. I also think like this is

I think something that Vinny and I try to talk about a lot

um

And I'm going to get into a weird conversation that I think you you live in and you understand but

I don't think of myself as a role model

But I I would be not self aware to realize that like I've done enough stuff that people are like

Oh, I look good to see what those guys do for sure, right?

And

I think we created this world through youtube where everyone thought they had to have a thousand horsepower car would be cool

And when I was younger even in my car club, like you could have like a ratty eight valve slammed on steelies

Yeah, and like it just had cool presence

And it was in and I think and like that's what I loved about dunk culture

It was like I came when I went to rides magazine, you know in order to be accepted in the world of like hip-hop

Car culture you had to have an escalade

So your entry point seventy thousand dollars. Yeah, and then you jump in fifteen thousand dollar wheels on the car

So it's like you like and that was the lowest level because most of what people were talking about were like

Rolls Royces and like all Bentley's all these crazy cars and then

Kids in the hood were like no we're gonna build my grandma's box Chevy and make that cool

And like the starting platform wasn't that was like again was cool

And you would go to the I would go to these spots like to go film these cars

And sure some of them were dope on 26's some of them weren't even on wheels yet

But they were still they still had a box Chevy

They still belong because they were part of it

And I think that there has been something that has happened in the past 10 years where everyone feels like they need

This crazy thing to belong and it's like man

You could have like a slammed civic or a slammed golf and like it's pretty cool, man

It's it's pretty cool just to keep it on the road

Yeah, it's just to keep it running and like do small stuff to it. Like I said, I think everything

culturally kind of moves together and

Like we both had youtube channels that sold for tens of millions of dollars during a time when like

like

Just money was fake. I think in like in the end it was fake for me

Yeah, yeah, it turned out that money wasn't even real

But like people were just like selling companies for like 80 million dollars and it's like, oh, I'm gonna like

Start a company. It kind of does this thing. It doesn't work yet

But you know, we just raised 80 million dollars in funding and I think it's just like that was just like a decade of

fake numbers and I think that

that's sort of

Proving to not be the you know, it's proving to be fake and everything's sort of like washing out from that experience like

For the whole world and I think the response is like this more analog smaller

kind of thing so yeah like

Bullshit companies were selling for a hundred million dollars and cars had 3 000 horsepower, you know

Everything was

It was all just like a good clickbait. Yeah, it was a gluttonous era

Ask anyone who owns a 3 000 horsepower car if they enjoy driving it like deeply

John force, you know, that may be a little different but like

By the way, one of the most badass men I've ever gotten to hang out with but yeah, um, yeah, man

I don't know. I'm just enjoying

Like the simpleness of cars right now. I just bought a vanagon and like I

Had all these plans because we I bought it because we were on tref punks

And we had like a camera support vehicle and I thought to myself, you know, it would be a really good camera support vehicle

A vanagon. Yeah, and that's like all it takes for me to go purchase a car

Yeah, I was like, yeah, that's enough of a reason because I can justify it

And that's like why I bought so many cars during the hoonigan era was I would justify it for content

Like oh if I go buy this f 600 like that'll be a really cool build on hoonigan never got built on hoonigan

Now I pay storage for it every month because I haven't even moved it to my farm

Um, but I bought the vanagon with that idea and I was like, oh, I'm gonna do

Uh, 996 engine in it with a 996 box like all these crazy mods and I ended up finding a vehicle that was well maintained and just works

Like man, I'm just really enjoying it stock and I realized like I may be crossing into this world where

I'm just enjoying like old cars just for being totally. Yeah, like I really enjoy the nostalgia

I'm starting to realize that there's no difference between my

My um father-in-law who has a Volkswagen thing and drives it to the beach listening to the beach boys

As me driving around in my 90s Volkswagen, you know, listening to mob deep like there's no difference

Yeah, just that guy now like it's like I'm just the same thing. Yeah, like I'm really um

Like I really want to build

Like maybe like a mark one shirako

With like uh carbs. Yeah, like a carved eight valve or something because like

The thing I want is like for the engine to be

Take up the least amount of space. Oh, yeah

In the engine bay possible. This is such a vw guy thing to want to be like

I want the smallest engine under my hood is possible and then have the least amount of things coming off of it

So that you look into it and it's like this like piece of art with like a frame around it

I once got pulled over by chp in the in the canyons and they they wanted to state ref me

In my rabbit and I'm like first off it's a 1975. So like

It's not really state repable because it's pretty smog

I was like, but you're more than welcome to pop the hood because like it's a stock engine

Like no, there's definitely something under there like we heard it. You know, he's like I heard that blowing by and like no

What you heard

Was a car that makes 50 horsepower stock from the factory trying to get up a hill

Like that's what you heard like it was just trying really hard

And he popped the hood and all there is is just this little carbureted eight valve in there

And he just looked at it and he looked at his motorcycle and he looked back and he said

Motor on my bike's bigger. Yeah, I was like, yeah, he's like, all right. You're good to go

That was all he had to see he was like it was so just like wimpy. He was like, I'm not even gonna write this guy a ticket

Yeah, the green the green paint makes it look

Yeah, it looks like it's it looks like a hot hatch, but it's a it's a it's a mild hatch

It's like lukewarm at best. Yeah, so you're gonna build that for the plan is to build up this year

Do an eight valve do nice paint it's original paint on it right now

But there's like enough rust spots and enough dings and dents all around it

I think it's like

I'll enjoy it as it is now like I originally I bought it

Um, and my whole thing was like I just wanted to get to run under its own power for a week before I pulled it out

and put the 16 valve in

And that was whatever three and a half years ago just kept driving it

Really kind of just fell in love with like what it is

But now it's like there's like a bunch of little problems. There's been problems all along

Like I always refer to that vehicle

It's like my it's like my escape room on wheels because like I just never know when it's gonna break

But all the stuff is like really easy to fix. It's all like four parts on it. Yeah, it's like a screwdriver and vice grip

We'll get you home. Yeah

but I

I wouldn't take it on tref punks right because like it makes so little power

That like it just wouldn't be fun at altitude or like doing anything like that

Are you gonna do a carb date valve again or no? I was gonna do a carb date valve. I was gonna do just weathers

Um, but Whipple has talked me out of it because Whipple's like so pragmatic

He's so like just build a car that is like fun to drive and that you're not kind of other problems with

I have those like wide-ass wheels and I was like, yeah, I'm willing to pull the fenders

He's like, why don't you just put wheels that fit your car

But like really he's like over 50 now

So he's like at the pragmatic part of his life, you know, we're just I'm all of his cars right now

Yeah, I know it's pretty amazing. But uh, well, not all of them. Yeah, but he's finished on his way there

He's on his way there. But um, anyway

Uh, Gen V makes um

They make a webber

Itb like a webber look alike or like a DCOE. They call them. I think heritage carbs

So I think whatever on those so they look like carbs, but

Underneath underneath their actual injectors. You're gonna be like an ABA. Nope. I'm doing uh original

I'm actually the engine I'm building is the engine out of his 85 gti. Got it. Yeah, so I'm building

So it's it's sort of like a

mid 80s kind of period correct other than the itbs

But it'll look that way like I'm trying to key and then most of the I've got a bunch of op parts for it

Which are like really rare for mark ones like you see them a lot for mark threes

But just weren't as

I don't know available

So I'm gonna do that and then like kind of keep it pretty much how it is

I want to do like a like a sort of like brown interior in it

I saw a brochure from japan in 1975 and it was that color car but with this like

Really sort of cool like carrot like caramel camel like interior

And I was like that looks really good. I want to put that together with I got some like old rickarros

You know just like

Kind of build this car that I wanted to build when I was 21 but couldn't afford to you know

So I'm not sure. I have a set of um

There are these old Audi wheels that were that I had

Um

I forget the guy's name now. You know the guy who does the split wheels down san diego. Yeah sham sham boy

Yeah, yeah, yeah sham sham. I don't even know how to pronounce this. I think even if I knew what it was

I'd forget but um

He made a split of this like old 13 inch Audi wheel for me. He made just one

And it looks pretty sick. So

I'll probably run that but I've been collecting wheels for my rabbit

So I think I have like nine or ten sets of wheels everything from like the classic rs's

to

Like our the original rml snowflakes like the og ones that rotiform made for them way way back in the day

Um to like just a whole collection of like weird like rally wheels like I don't know

I just like collecting like four by 100 wheels are pretty cheap. Yeah

So like they're they're a fun thing to collect. Yeah, so my cars are both my golfs are four by 100 still

Yeah, like people don't really care that much about like 15 by seven. It's not like a wanted size

Yeah, and Jason's like, why don't you switch to five? Look, it's like because what am I going to run like w or x wheels like

I like I think one of the main reasons I like

cars is finding stuff and my

Taste in cars. I think as far as like cars I've built

Has been 100% just like what I could find. Yeah, I never like set out with like an intention of like

Here's my vision for this and I'm going to execute it because it's just impossible

It's it's always like, oh, I have this and I have this and I'll put this on there too

Um, we're very alike because I'm kind of the same way. It's for me. It's like

It's like this weird pyramid of um

It's got to be something that like fits into a cool style in the sign

But it also has to be a good deal

Like I'm never going to buy that set of like I want oz futuras for something

I don't even know what car I want them for but I want them for something

But like I'm not going to pay 3200 bucks for 3500 whatever they're going for now

I'll wait till I find a cheap set somewhere and we finish them or get a bank or find them on a car

And literally buy the car just for the wheels and sell the car like I enjoy

The story of finding those parts

More so than anything and I'm over wanting perfect stuff

Like I like hella magic color tail lights and I have a pink set on the silver car

And people are trying to sell those for 1200 dollars

Um, I bought mine for 250 bucks and they have like a

Crack going down the middle of it. It's like hey chances are

This 25 year old piece of plastic sitting in the sun would crack anyway. So I'm just gonna like

Remove the middle man

I think I think like perfectly imperfect cars are a huge thing my uh 9 11 my

My wife before she was my wife, uh, knocked over my motorcycle and scratched the hood of the car

And she was horrified and she thought you know, actually like was calling the body shop like, you know

Can can you fix this and like we'd have to repaint the whole car like that's not like flat white paint

Like it's not something we can match easily

We have to repaint the whole car and you know, she told me I think she thought I was gonna like lose my shit

And I think it was a mixture of

One I really was into her so I was like I'm not gonna get

Madder over over something with a car. Um, and by the way, I've heard people

Like I've told this story before on who you're getting people were like, I would have blah blah blah

I'm like and that's why you're home alone in a basement. Um, but

I sleep in a race car bed

And it's like I wasn't gonna get mad at her or something like that

Plus it was probably partially my fault because I had too much crap in the garage

Um, but it also was like it took away like the worry of scratching anything

Because I'm like, oh well already got a big scratch on the car now

So like I just don't care as much anymore and I just found myself treating the car differently after that

It was like I didn't paint my e30

And I think if I had I wouldn't drive it nearly as much as I do. I like street park it on venice

This is my worry with painting my rabbit. Yeah, because like right now I drive the shit out of that car

Like I people tag me in photos of that car all the time because I'll just go somewhere and just leave it outside

I like like I don't know you that I mean, I know you know, we really don't know each other that well

I think it's okay to be honest. I'm like

I'm legitimately

I know of you from afar and your

History with owning a million cars that don't

Watching you drive that car as much as you do has made me as like a fellow car guy like proud of you

I'm like, man, it looks like looks like scottos like

Looks like his spirit's good, man. He must like really love that rabbit

One the car hit this nostalgia thing because that was at a moment at Hoonigan

Where we were just building thousand horsepower cars and simultaneously I was building a thousand horsepower outie that like still doesn't run

right and

You know, and I was chasing this thing that everyone was like, that's what you should be doing

And then like I bought this car off a quarry

Fixed it got it to run and I just enjoyed it

I just enjoyed it for what it was and it was kind of actually pretty private to me early on and it was actually this thing

I felt like I shouldn't share with like the Hoonigan audience because it just felt so on Hoonigan

Right 50 horsepower front-wheel drive car like what's cool about that?

Like it just didn't fit and I think it like

Got into an episode or in the background of one or something and like a ton of people gravitated to it

We're like, yo, what's that mark one? You know, we obviously started talking more about it

And I think it actually like freed me

Yeah from this world that I had created that like I could own as the guy at Hoonigan

I could only have like a nova a 9 11, you know in a thousand horsepower outie

Like I couldn't have these other things

Because that just didn't work because they couldn't you know do donuts, right?

Like it was like there was like this thing that like the cars had to do

And that kind of freed it for me being like yeah, people are into this too

And it actually opened me up to buying a bunch of garbage

Some of which I still own because I was like, hey people also think this really cool old front-wheel drive outie school apparently not

But yeah, but I also set this rule for myself

That I was gonna stop owning

Normal cars which is not an easy life choice right like to not own a daily driver

Right to be like every car I own is something fun. Yeah has to be fun

And there are days where it is tense because I have to go do a really normal thing

Like I have to go to a like a normal meeting that doesn't that no one's like clapping because I drove my cool car there

Or I have to go to a doctor's appointment or I have to pick my kid up

And bring my kid somewhere and my car breaks on the way and like that is really not fun

but

When you balance it out like it is fun to just drive something cool every day

Like I really enjoy that like the the most pedestrian vehicle I own is a

Is it probably my s8?

But like that car is like it's it breaks every day. It's it's such an unreliable vehicle

But I really enjoy it and then my other one is a ford van that's like lifted on 35

It's like totally nada makes like 700 horsepower. All my cars are

specific and old and I got to the point where

Like

I got access to press cars pretty frequently and it would have to be like a really special press car for me to

like

feel

Better about it than like my car. Yeah, I mean like like parking at the grocery store and like you get out of your car

And you're like, I'm cool. Yeah. I'm a cool guy

um, and so like

Uh, and when I first started working for done it and first started getting press cars like any press car

I'd be like this this this rules this rules and now it's like

It's hard for me to find a car that I like more than my cars

Yeah, I have a hard time. I have a hard time driving any new car that really gets me that excited

That's just like a thing. But when I was a journalist, I didn't

Other than the Audi, which was a project that didn't run. I didn't own a car

Yeah, it's like I was a you know, I had pressers every week. That was all I drove

Um, and you know, you'd get excited about just the new g 37 when it came out because it was new and someone else

Was letting you drive it and well when we first started doing uh auto like car reviews

Like we used to joke that Nolan just loved everything

They were new. Yeah, he's like, you know, the new ultimo is actually like pretty nice you guys

It's a lot better than not driving something. Yeah, he's like, you know, it's got ac

He's like, it's pretty good

It's funny because I at some point I wanted to get back into driving press cars

And I had driven a couple new cars and I realized that like the things I was

Excited about was like 10 year old technology because I'd be like saying to someone someone's like, you know, every car has that now

Like, I don't know man. Have you seen the things I drive? Like, I don't know like like wait, they all do this like

Wow, maybe I should look at new cars. I can see the top of the car

In the camera

Yeah, that's like new tech to me

I mean to me like with a new tech that came out when I was still a journalist were things like

Hill assist and bluetooth connectivity

Like that was new and like I really haven't like driven money like new cars since then

Yeah, whenever I have a press car, I'll make sure to drive it to like San Diego or something for like a

I'll like schedule a podcast or something right just to like put the mile traffic. Yeah. Yeah

I don't know if for me right now. I'm like anti new car

I'm sort of it's like forcing me to like make my cars more

Like normal drivable. It's making me fix things like air conditioning

Because otherwise I would just like my wife had like a newer s8

I would just jump in that and then I would just drive that every day and then

And then it just became the everyday thing or like my van before it was modified

I think there's something kind of fun about

That slight adventure that you just don't know where you're whether or not your car is going to get you there or not

Yeah, I don't know. I

Like for a different reason like I like the coolness of like it's an adventure

Yeah, like me going to Trader Joe's today is an adventure. Like there's a very good chance. I'm not

You might not make it back buddy

Stock up on the trail mix while you're there because we might we might have to get home

Yeah, better get a snack. Just better get rations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it just at least needs

Some noise and like a smell

Yeah, and it's gotta just like rattle around a little bit

Yeah, like you it had you have to

travel with tools

Yeah, like it's got to be something that you're like, ah, this might break or like you have to be the kind of person

That's like can't wait till the end of the year so that your triple a toes re-up

Because you're like, oh man, I've used all my toes this year

Dude, I brought it up on the past few podcasts have been on triple a is the only thing in the world

That costs less than I think it should

I hope they're not listening. Yeah, because the amount I use all my toes every year

Yeah, it is such a great deal. Yeah, I love it. We should get triple a as a partner

Dude, we should and I just want it. Yeah, I want to work with brands that I support and triple a

Dude and don't sleep on the discounts. You feel a little geriatric typing it in but you'll save some money on a hotel

You get like 20 bucks off every hotel and they never even asked for the card

Yeah, literally just like uh, do you guys have a triple like? Yeah, yeah, they just punch it in like they only want to see your card

They've got it

So I also use them for insurance too. Uh, I have one of my cards insured. Yeah. This is not a triple a ad

But it could be triple a it could be

Um, no, I switched over to them. They're pretty good. Anyway, um

What other kind of cards are you in do?

Like if it was in volks wagons, what would it be? Well, it's like BMW is a lot. Oh, yeah

I've been 30 with an s54 engine in it. Yeah

Um, I want I don't get the BMW thing at all. I wish I did they're just square

They're square

Rear-wheel drive cars. I know I know I get it old BMWs. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't like the BMWs

I can appreciate what they are

And I there's some that I think I would buy like I could see buying an eight series

Probably because they're like the least reliable version

BMW just like the least fun one I can um, I think I could see buying an eight series

I could see buying I could see buying an e30

Um, e30 rules and they're still you can still get a nice e30 for less than 10 grand

I like clown shoes. I think clown shoes rule. I don't think I fit in one, but they look cool

Yeah, might be surprised that I don't they must be like a stigma thing to it

I was just having this I had this conversation multiple times and I had this conversation with my wife

I don't know why I don't like them. It's like someone must have hurt me when I was younger who had a bmw

I think e30s especially are like e28s. They just like look

Like three boxes and it's rear wheel drive and it's just like car

Yeah, the e30 like older volvos the mark 2 jetta to me is like when a kid draws a car

Yeah, yeah, they're drawing that car. Like it's just a simple shape. It just works. So yeah, I love BMWs

I'd like maybe like an e34

Yeah, those are good and I want to with a v8

I'd like to do like a

E39 m5 engine in it or something or maybe like an e90 v8. What's that an s65?

Yeah, uh, like I think I want something with like a v8, but like a high revvy

Yeah, like small displacement v8. That'd be fun. I want to mark one shirako. I want like a bright

Like either like bright orange or like signal green

Mark one shirako

My rabbit signal green. Yeah, just they called it rally green in the Volkswagen color book

Maybe I'll get an orange one and then we can maybe be friends part

The other color car I really want in life is orange. Yeah, did you always like colored cars?

I think old cars can be bright colors and new cars that are bright colors look dumb

Interesting. I an orange 2002

That's sick and cool. That's a cool car like a

Yellow rabbit f8 but like an orange f80 and orange f80 is not a cool car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sorry if you drive one

Yeah, so I used to only like black and white cars right at a white 911 a black nova

Like all my cars were black and white and even when I first bought my rabbit

I was looking for a white mark one and I saw that rally green when I was like, man

That's just a really really cool color

Since I bought that all I want is colored cars now like I just really enjoy color

And in a time when you drive through parking lots and every single parking lot is like white

Silver gray and black

Like that's it. Like there's no coloring cars anymore

Like in the 80s and like the early

And like, you know all the way through really the 60s 70s and mid 80s like we had great color cars

I just don't think we have like good colors anymore. And if you do have a good color

It's only on an asshole car like there's really good Lamborghini colors

I like Lamborghinis, but they're fun assholes

My mark three is a silver arrow. So it's like a silver mark three golf

And back in the day like there weren't any silver cars. So like that was like a very

Sawed after mark three color. And so when that matt I bought it from matt crook when that car popped up

I was like, oh

Yeah, dude, silver arrow car. Hell yeah, and then like I got it and realized. Oh all cars are silver now

So it doesn't look as special, but no, it's cool to Volkswagen guys. Yeah, yeah, which all this is all it really

Yeah, yeah, it's like as long as like the seven people who know no, like that's the reason

Yeah, silver arrow four door with euro bumpers, dude. It's kind of fresh. Yeah, it's pretty good

Well, like I once painted a black car black magic just because and like for those listening

Black is in black black magic as in metallic black, but it was like a special Volkswagen color

I did a full respray like car stripped all the way down all the glass out

To paint it black magic just because Volkswagen guys would think it's cool

I remember my mom was like you did what because I I spent an inheritance that I'd gotten from my great grandmother

I'm repainting my car

Talk about the most irresponsible thing you could do at like 21 years old

And I got this money which was it was like 3,100 bucks and I like worked at a body shop

And the guy was like, all right, I'll repaint your car for that much

And it was just metallic black like I did went to all that work just to impress like seven guys who were like

That's a black magic car. Like you can't get black magic in the States

My e30 is painted

Like gmc 90s truck black because there's nothing in it. Yeah, there's no pearl

No glitter nothing. So my 9 11 is painted a pure white

I forget what white it was but it was like the purest white

But then we put a pearlescent on top of it

So that way it was like a because I felt back then like all whites looked off white

And I wanted like white white like absence of color white

But then but it like was almost too shockingly white and then we dropped a pearlescent on it and gave it this like

Marshmallow look which is cool. I like white cars a lot right now. Yeah, I still like white cars

I really hate black cars unless they're big body cars. Like I can imagine owning

Like a q-ship, you know, like a big sleeper

Like an s8 or like something like that. That's not black. Yeah, like it just works immediately

Lexus for a 30s. Like they just look cool VIP like a silver lexus ls. Isn't that cool? That's geriatric a black ls

That's yakuza. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You need that. You need that as yakuza

Big body murder. Maybe I could get away with like a dark purple

Maybe like a dark dark green. Yeah, but there's got it. It's got to be dark. Like it has to feel

Menacing. Yeah, there's nothing menacing about a silver car. I think some cars like white cars can look

like

fleet

Yeah, yeah for sure, you know or they can look like really cool

So like a nice car in white is sick

Or like a lot of old cars in white are sick, but a cheap car in white is like more rental

Right feels like a rental car. Yeah. Yeah, that's how I feel about old trucks. Like

Old white trucks look like contractor grade trucks. Not as cool

Where like an old black truck looks really cool because they're actually kind of rare. Like I had an old black 7 3

old body style Ford and

Like that thing was really rare. You like to think a black truck is rare. It's like, yeah, they mostly came in silver

And like then a bunch of people bought them in red for some reason. Yeah, so yeah

Yeah, I don't know. I like I'm now on this thing where it's like I just want to own a bunch of color cars

So like I'm as I was saying before like I got these 24 to 26 cars

I want to make this

Concept and the name of the show is just going to be like does it run because I was like this big

Like joke was like is it scottos does it run was just like Hoonigan joke

And I want to kind of go through cut it down to like 10

But like I have like all these like mandates I need which is like I have to have a certain

Types of cars. I need like, you know, I need my

My sports car. I need my van. I need this. I need that

But then I also have like the color cars

I want to own and though this would all came off the tangent was I really do want an orange car

I had an orange opal at one point, but I sold it before I ever got it running

And but it was like that's such a quintessential like late 70s early 80s color. So good. Yeah

I want a bright old car

Maybe for tref punks next year

Because like old cars you can get away with a lot more

Without being a douchebag. Yeah. Yeah, I agree

All right, let's let's subject change real quick. Yeah

Drifter movie. Yeah, that was fun working with you on it

Let's talk too much about the movie because I don't know what we can say and what we can't say yet

And I don't know when it's coming out or anything, but

It was fun to work with you on something

In like kind of a space. I think that was outside of what the two of us spend most of our time in now

Holy and it's a thing that like

I came from that world right and I think

Like I I feel like I have my pre donut professional life than my donut professional life and then

starting speed and

Sung calling me out of the blue to

Do that movie kind of like

made

My post donut life sort of like combined my whole life

And I feel like that was a thing that like really made me feel

More like myself in a time that like I needed to and so it was like

Just like such a great experience like being on set

Really great car curation

I met people that like I hang out with all the time and it was cool because like I'm very

Aware of you and I'm very aware of like you're what you've made

But I've never been on set with you right and so there you directed second unit

But there was a day where like you directed me and I was like

That's pretty cool. And it made me

In like I want to make a movie now, you know, yeah

And like I think there's all this talk of like Hollywood being dead or whatever, but like

It's like, you know, we've made big projects that cost as much as features and you know

I make 45 minute youtube videos now. So just like how do we double that? And I think that like

it's totally

Realistic to think about like making a movie and I think

Yeah, and even like starting to think about like how what like distribution would look like

Like maybe we do it on youtube and sell tickets like in that way. I think

There's just creative ways to do everything. I'm pretty I don't know. It was like I just really really liked it

And I wanted to do it again. Yeah, I had a similar sort of like awakening like I always wanted to do a movie

And something that's always been like there

um

Back in the day David Ayer who like, you know worked on training day rewrote fast and furious did um

fury

End of watch a bunch of great stuff

He reached out to ben conrad and wanted to do a jim conna movie and that like planted this like seat in my head

Of like man, I really want to do this like this would be really cool to do one day

We chased it never really kind of came together and then I got that phone call from sung

Mine originally was to actually work on the initial d project

For various reasons that paused and sung was like, I just want to go bake something like I'm going to make my own film

and

I want to have the control. I don't want to have to deal with the studio like we're going to fund it

We're going to do this whole thing and you know, I want you to do all the action for it

um, which was just really really amazing experience because

Sung let me sort of run most of the second unit stuff just completely on my own and like kind of figure that out run

My own team will roge the whole group

But then I got I think the part of it that I was

Unexpecting was getting to jump in and help with some of the

Some of the narrative stuff like working with you

Got to work with michael. Um, you know got to work with a bunch of other people

you know

rosy like tamaris character and like

I wasn't expecting that and one of the things that went when I went there

I was I was a little bummed the first few days because I was so busy that I thought I was going to be able to get to

Like shadow

Sung and like watch what was happening on main unit

But honestly like if I wasn't if second unit wasn't operating

I was doing something else to help main unit for the next day or do something else or whatever

Or just continue to work logistic so

As the shoot went on and they started to kind of run behind schedule and sung and and uh, chris were giving me stuff to do

I was like man, I really like this. Yeah, right like I really enjoy

Not just the action stuff, which is something that feels very

Second nature to me at this point. I've been doing it for almost 20 years

But like I man, I really enjoy the narrative stuff and I immediately after that came home

Sat with you know will and was like I want to go do this like I want to go make a movie

You and I talked about I think on like one of the last days we had on set up in willow of like man

How do we go do this? Like we if there is anything that that project showed me

Um is that

I could go do this myself. Yeah, right or with other people but like but like this is possible

Right because it always felt like it was this other world

Like it wasn't close to what we were doing. It was like, oh, there's like what we do for youtube

And then there's hollywood. Yeah, we're not hollywood. Yeah, but in but like and granted that was like a low budget independent film

But I was like, man, and we could definitely go make this like this feels like something that's within reach

And I immediately went home and like bought all the books

Like like just save the cat. Yeah. Say red save the cat. I'm actually reading Roger Corman's like how I

Like how I made, you know money how I never lost money in making films or something like how I made a million dollars

I forget what the name of it is but Roger Corman. He's like king of the b films

And it's actually a really great read because he just writes about

Um, how to just make low low budget stuff and I think that I enjoy that creative

um

Kind of like sandbox because like that's how it was at Hoonigan

I was like, hey, we can't afford to do this. So like we have to do it this way

And that book is really like he he did all this stuff and there's all these like great actors and great directors who

Who worked with him, you know from Scorsese like and so on

But he was known for just like how cheap can you make it and just like an interesting look at it

Because when I look at what we've done, I think the reason why

You know Hoonigan was successful. Donut was successful. A lot of other people who are peers is because

We got to sort of bushwhack in a time where no one was doing it and like you look right now

You're like, yeah, Hollywood's falling. This is the perfect time

And they're telling everybody to figure out how to make it and self-produce

Yeah, I mean while we've been doing it for 10 years. Yeah, I think and it's like I don't think I don't think the movies

I don't think the theater. I don't think the audience is the problem

I just think that the traditional way of going about it's the problem and and this is the set standard bloat, right?

You get to

You know, there's too much money on the wrong thing. There's no there's no lack of money

There's a there's a ton of money. They just keep some people

want more of it and they want to charge like even like

That was another like subway takes that I just saw recently. Yeah, it's just like

uh, if you want to save the film industry

Executives and like the top of the bill. Oh, I did see that actors just take less money less money pay more people

It'd be fine. Fuckin idiots. It's great. Yeah, just like make cheaper stuff

Pay certain people less money. Yeah, and most people more money

Well, there's a couple movies that have done that model of like paying everybody's scale

Which is like the basic rate for the for the union and then everybody earns on the movie making money

And I think that's like really valuable like if I could redo Hoonigan, you know

And realize like I was I only own 10% of Hoonigan like it was Ken's company and and wasterman was our other our other partner

Um, I may have done

Most of the work because I was the one running it but that was my sweat equity that I was putting into the company

Um, but if I was to redo it now knowing what I did, I think that

I think at some point

there needed to be

Like a way that everybody felt like they were earning on the business doing well

I think that's the big yeah, but like but then but that being said, I don't think that selling companies is the goal anymore

So it's like you have to find a way to do that

Obviously with movies there

There's still an element where it does kind of sell at the end and oh every movie is just a business

And like you realize like each movie you make is its own business and you kind of figure that all out

But like man, there's such opportunity and obviously i'm sure you've been like seeing all the marty supreme stuff that's going on

Like I think that that you know, I think he's done

You know, I think he's done an excellent job in that marketing team

That's done it of like putting that movie out there for people to talk about I haven't seen it yet

So I don't know if it's good or not

Reviews are really good

But I look at that and I think about it from like a more micro version of like how people in the automotive industry can

Position a good movie in a completely different way than hollywood has ever like sinners

I think sinners is even a better example

Sinners is also fantastic. I just watched it this weekend first time

No, yeah. Oh wait. Yeah. Oh really? Yeah. Did you like it? Yes. Love it. It was so good. Yeah, but like sinners

had a better

Opening box office the marty supreme. Yeah, and the marketing

for sinners was a lot of like

technical film stuff 100 like coogler talking about like aspect ratios and shit and like

Giving the audience the benefit of the doubt that they're like interested in why this movie is good. And I think

You know like I think first and foremost

I think of myself as like an entertainer

But the way that I've always entertained is to like educate like the three e's and speed like we came up with this

after the fact, but it's like

I love this by the way. I love justifying something afterwards and being like, this is the reason why we didn't do it

But why we should have done it. Honestly, that's what they all mean. So first and foremost, it has to be entertaining. Yep

If it's entertaining

Then it also has to be educational. So if it's those two things then we can put it out

And then the third one

I forget the third one, but the third one is like extra. It's gotta be extra

The third one's like emotional or like endearing, but it's like that's it's like

basically

Like catharsis for Maria like sharing or whatever

So like it has to be those first two before it can be like super personal

Right, you know, or else it's just like masturbatory. But like first and foremost, it has to be

entertaining and then educational. So like I think

Yeah, the the press for around sinners. I thought it was like really great. Yeah, I think it spoke a lot to Filmmaker world

I'll give you two things or three things off of that first

I made an homage to sinners aspect ratio changing in the beginning of jim kana ozzy shreds

We go from what is like a scope like ultra wide into like regular wide

Midway through just because I thought that was such a cool thing that he did where you constantly are changing aspect ratio

And I didn't realize it like I watched in the theater and it wasn't until like midway through

That I realized it and the only reason I realized it was because I saw a post about different aspect ratios

And then I went and like was like, oh

And it was like a different experience depending on where you saw it

So like you get like the full experience. Yeah, I saw it on 70 mil. Yeah, do you change aspect ratio like on action?

there's like

No, it was great. I was I was fantastic. Then the other thing is um

You guys did three ease and speed. I'm imagining so it would stand out

That was kind of like a like a search optimization thing. Yeah. Yeah

Yeah, and just to make it like

A brand name. No, I get it. Yeah, because I always thought the issue with doughnut like when

Ben first came to me was like that name isn't very easily trademarked

Totally like Hoonigan was its own word

Like it was very easy for us to trademark it and protect it and it also made it very easy to like search it

Right because it was like the only thing that came up

So I was curious when I first saw that because we were like, why misspell speed and I was like, uh, it makes a lot of sense

Yeah, it was sort of like for a while. I was gonna call it power, baby

Right, sometimes they're not doing it

I mean is I'm assuming speed is sort of the up to speed connection. Yeah, so it was like an homage to that

And then there's another

YouTuber called I show speed. Yeah, of course. He's huge. Yeah

And so yeah, I think it was like seo, but also to like make it

Not

Just car. I think just to make it like like you said like its own word. Yeah

I will be honest. I'm like seven days old from realizing like oh up to speed speed

Like that just didn't click for me early on like it was just like car channel called speed extra e

That makes sense like visually. I liked it like I didn't question it and the other day

I saw like something feed up, you know feed to me. That was like an old up to speed. I was like

That took that was a little slow

A little slow for you to pick that one up. He's also a painter. I think his name's Darrell white

And he did like a lot of the peewee herman

Like set design and he does these like

Paintings where it's just like a saying and they like scale like really far away like that

And so I was like looking at a bunch of stuff when I started it and

I think the

Extra e sort of like lent itself. Yeah

And so like our first logo is like kind of like a force perspective like scaling back

Kind of thing

I dig it because I grew up in graffiti and a lot of times if you wanted to like fill space

You would just add more vowels

So like if you had a tag and then you wanted it to like, you know

But you wanted to fill the whole side of something like the side of a city bus

You'd like just add more ease

So you would just do like oh, I wanted my tag is whatever and I would add eight ease in it

Just to take up the whole space or something like that was like a pretty standard thing

And so like we add extra vowels to like we have merch that says cool with three right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah saw that saw that

Um, yeah, man, but uh going back to making movies

So like I don't know is that do you want to do that next because like I want to do that next

I'm pretty honest about that. I want to talk to you about this

Maybe all fair, but like we want to do a magazine

Um for speed. Yeah speed mag

Um, I definitely want to make a movie

um, I wouldn't

Mind wouldn't mind. I'd like to like explore the idea of

Like making a series

like a comedy series

um

and like again

Thinking about interesting ways to like publish things

On my channel and then potentially licensing it to like netflix or something like that

I don't know. I want to do like I want to continue to

do what we're doing and kind of

Explore like the filmmaking aspect of

youtube and like

Encourage more people to like make things that they think are good because I do think that a lot of this

Uh algorithm jail is self inflicted and I I want to encourage like other creators to like

Do stuff that you like do stuff that you think is good because I do think that like

If you make good stuff people will watch it and people will find it

Um, and then I want to I just want to do like more comedy stuff. Like I kind of want to continue like combine

All of my experience

um

Like with youtube and then like comedy and stuff like that

On the comedy thing

So I was asked in a panel one of the panels that you didn't join on the drifter movie

Someone asked about your performance and I said, you know, I think the one thing

That'll probably come as a shock is that you may be showing up thinking that you're getting james pump free

From speed or from doughnut, but you're gonna get him playing a character. That's like very serious and like has a darkness to him

Um

Which is the real james pump free. Is it the real james pump free? No, I got a deep darkness

But like that was definitely it was like interesting because you called out that role

Like I know that you wanted you, you know, I know you've said this on other podcasts

You don't need to repeat it here that when sung gave you the script you're like, hey, I see one character

I think I can fit sung saw that for you as well

Sung also plays a character that is unlike any character that I think people know him as

He's not Han. He's not super cool. Right. Like there's this completely different piece to it

But you want to make comedy stuff

But like you know, you're really good at that role like because I think you did a very good job of that

and I'd love to do those roles too and I think that like

Like the best dramatic movies are super funny, you know what I mean? Yeah

And so like I I think I would just like I would like to continue to do

Everything that I can do to keep making stuff

Ideally some of those things that I make

Will give me some tape that someone can watch

And be like, hey, I think maybe he could do this other thing and then hopefully like I would love to be in other people's stuff

Did did you listen to the smart list with david decoveny? No, it's very good because he talks about how it's actually all the stuff

I didn't know about david decoveny. Like I didn't know he was like an academic

I didn't know he could care less about sci-fi

But he talks and and also like how influenced he is by charles bukowski

And but he talks about how like the greatest comedy comes in like really sad for like things, right?

Like he played these like you think about californication where it's like

His story in that which is a very bukowski like character is

It's really funny, but it's also really like it's really heavy and he's like that's like his zone

Like he really loves this like heavy comedy that like works really well

But you've played a lot of like really like

Topical fun stuff, especially for like for that other stuff

But I feel like there's this other side of you that like and again

I don't I will keep saying this like we don't really know each other that well

But um, this is now the longest conversation we've ever had

Um, but that other side of it is something that like feels like it you fit in really nicely

I appreciate that. I would love to do more of it. I really just I want to do

Honestly, I'm just getting clips so that when you and I make a fucking killer movie

They go back to this and they're like remember this moment where they barely knew each other now. They own an island together

With a racetrack on it

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Excepting our uh independent spirit award. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I just like I think I just I want to do

A bunch of stuff I want to do and I think I can do a lot of stuff and I just want to

Like I said, I want to do whatever I can to

Give people confidence

In the idea of giving me an opportunity to do stuff. I want to do you know what I mean

Yeah, I um, it's funny because when I left him again

I think a lot of people thought I retired because like I bought a farm

Yeah, which I had nothing to do with any of that. Well, it's like that's the yeah

Yeah, you bought the farm. It's usually mean to die

But like but the idea that like yeah, you're done like you're out the pasture kind of thing

um

The reason I bought the farm very quickly is because

In the couple years before ken passed he bought the ranch

He fucking loved the ranch to the point that I hated the ranch because we'd have these really important meetings

And he'd be like yeah, so anyway, look at these blueprints for the ranch. Look at this for the ranch

I got this design for the ranch and I'm like, dude, we have to have a serious conversation all you talk about is the ranch

but when he passed

There was this like ran there was a solace and like man

He really was enjoying life in the last couple years

I can't say he always was but he was and I know it looked like he was from the outside

But he was racing cars and doing all this stuff

But like he really seemed like at home

With his family on the ranch like doing cool ranch stuff like chopping wood

These things that were like not part of his public life

Right, he was just enjoying that time and I had always wanted something similar for myself

And I was like

Fuck it. I'm gonna buy a farm and I like over leveraged myself and like bought this property like did not

I did none of my homework, but I just was like I could die tomorrow

Like I'm gonna go get this place and then like I really

I still really love it

But like in those that first year I was just there all the time and I was it was like therapy for me

To be out of a city to be away from everything to like have quiet to like turn my cell phone off like all these things that

Um that were happening because I went in this like massive and I don't take the super dark turn at the end

But like I went to this massive like

Like just weird state of like what is my life now? I'm going through that right now. This is all over

I was like dealing with like all different things like depression all this stuff

But I was also in this like I fucking hate social media and I'm part of the problem

Right, right like I had read all these books and I was like like from you know, everything from like the jonathan height books to

I

Stolen focus like all these great books and I was like man

I'm part of this like I've created part of this problem for an audience

It's like I thought I created positive content

But still I created this like dopamine distraction instead of like going out and enjoying the world and touching grass

Right, so I was like just going and doing that on my own and trying to like kind of find find my way

Not all of it worked

But I went and really kind of enjoyed going and doing all that but people really thought that like I retired and like

It was over for me. I was I was working at another company

As a chief creative officer, you know for super plastic and doing that whole thing

But I was like, yeah, I was just off to go do something else

But what I realized

Was like, you know, and I don't know if you know this but like the

When hoonigan went bankrupt

I lost most of my money because my money was tied up in that equity

So like I did not do well off the hoonigan deal like it sold for pennies on the dollar for me

Right, so I wish it never sold because it would be in a better off situation if it was still there, but

um

So but even if I had made

Enough money to not even retire, but to take a break

It was very obvious to me that I couldn't take a break that actually one of the biggest issues

I had at super plastic was that like there wasn't enough going on for me

Like I it was like a very nice job

They paid me handsomely

But I was like started my day at 10 and ended it at 4 and there really wasn't much more expectation for me

And that like wasn't enough and I realized and kind of trying to land this plane here

I I think very similar to you. It's like I just want to do a lot of things

Yeah, I want to make shit. I just want to make shit like like magazines books movies

Podcasts, I mean the big joke is like I've launched a podcast and I already have an idea for four other podcasts

They all have me in them

Like it's like I just enjoy that and that was like the thing that I missed

There's two things I really miss from hoonigan

One is I miss like I miss going showing up to work every day and seeing my friends

Like that doesn't happen anymore. Like I wake up and I sometimes just spend the day by myself all day

And like that's just not as much fun. And like a bunch of us are trying to break that by being like, hey

Let's just fucking catch up for lunch. You know, like let's I can totally relate to that. I mean, I work at my house

And like my two friends come over to my house. Yeah, we're in my house right now. Yeah

And it's sort of like

Like just kind of groundhog day sometimes and so

I really want to focus on having goals and I like having goals that seem

Kind of like they need a lot of luck involved in them

so

I know you wanted that like

there's

something I thought when you were directing the two scenes that you directed me in

and thinking back on like it makes sense

Uh

That it contributed to I think like the success of the Jim Connors and just like Hoonigan in a whole as a whole

I think you're like very good

at understanding what the audience is seeing

And like what they're going to be thinking while they're seeing it. And so like just the way that you

Like set up the shop and then like communicated to like the actors as far. All right, so here's what's happening

Here's what you need to do

Like it felt like very old hollywood

Like it felt like in a great way. I was like, all right, great

Like it felt like, you know, like you being like, all right, so like

Hang the rear tire over that right, you know, and it like wasn't in like a disrespectful way like at all

I was just like, hey, this is what we're doing. Here's what you need to do to make that happen. I'm like, all right sick

and

You know, I think it's like the same

Like I watched some like BTS stuff of you guys talking about the latest Jim Connors where you were like

He drove when he drove across the water

It didn't look like water

Like it didn't look like it was deep, right?

So you like sunk the other car and like put the boat in there so that the audience would know that it was deep

And I think that's something

If like you take any advice if you're like some sort of creator watching this this you do I think like

Thinking about what the audience is experiencing in the thing that you're making

Is something that's like really overlooked and I think so I do how interesting and I think like very

Like the most important thing

Like that's the most important thing is like how the audience is

receiving the thing and I think that's something that we think about quite a bit and I think separates us from other people

and like you're very

Very conscious. I think like goat level of like here's what the audience is gonna see

You know

And so I appreciate the reason that like I would want to

Work on a big project with you because I think we like share that like

Okay, but then like

What are they gonna think? You know, it's very fun to like imagine that that's what it is for me. I appreciate that

for me, I think I

It's so second nature for me to just think about it through that lens

I've never even thought that that was not like that was not normal. Yeah, but now I

And coming from the world of magazines

You're constantly thinking what does the audience think of this?

But you like never had immediate feedback like so I'm one of those people who loves the comment well

Because good or bad it helps me sort of understand

Where the audience is at and I'm at a point now where like you could write negative comments

And like I can either take them for real like there's sometimes you're like, man, that's a really good point

But then those times you're like, yeah, you're just the outlier just like the same outlier who says everything you make is great

Right, like there's both sides of that though

Like there's those people in the middle that like really kind of find that and I think that's one of the best

Parts we have in modern day content is that you can get that immediate

critique sometimes bad

But like I think in general that immediate critique is so neat because it allows you to adjust how you make stuff

and like as much as

Previously I said that I hate things about youtube

Like I did really enjoy those analytics because you could sit there and be like well people stopped watching after this

Like what was it about this that wasn't good that I don't think like your average like movie directors get

Like they make a movie

It takes

You know a year for it to come out. Sometimes they're not even involved in the edit

So like what it actually becomes versus what they directed is like two separate things

The script probably wasn't theirs. It was someone else's script

And then the studio gets involved and reworks the whole thing again

And then it goes out to theaters and then they get like professional critique

And like like you can't like professional critique is so different than what the audience thinks

Like what the guy who's reviewing it for a variety is so different than what the audience is

And I think that's like a really unique thing

that

Me you and everyone else who's come up in this weird world that is youtube content like

You can really learn from because I know other youtubers who do not look at comments at all

Like they literally just don't even look at it. I saw you guys posted something other day about like

You guys are in the comments and you're reading them. We do. I have to manage it for sure. Yeah, like

Like I'm an addict and talk about like I

Don't know how I didn't realize this until like this summer, but like I like showed up and I was like guys

This is a terrible job for people who are addicted to like dopamine hits

We'll like work real hard on something for like two weeks

Then we'll put it out and like we'll either be like real happy or like kind of sad for the next four days

And it's just then then we'll like do it again and again and again. So I have to like

I actively manage

Filling my life with other reasons to be happy or sad

I can't imagine being a movie director and making something every two years and then having it fail

Like the greatest thing about daily transmission was well today's episode sucks. We got another one for you tomorrow

Right like I get to fix my mistakes

Imagine working for two years and you put something out and it's like not good

Like that's definitely something I worry about being said like if I could pick the things I want to do like number one thing

Is originally I was saying second unit direct

Action, but I think like I'm just gonna say it like I just want to direct a movie. Like that's the thing

I think you gotta be good. I want to be in it. Let's do it. Yeah, let's make a movie

Yeah, for sure. Should we end on that or you guys? Let's just fucking I know let's fucking make a movie. Make a movie, bro

Thank you everybody

I'm not accepting

Goodbye

If you know anything about me, you know, I love mods from car mods garage mods even house mods

I just enjoy modifying things which is why I really love these fantastic

Robo shop stools while they're great stock

Viper also offers a ton of mods right now the one I'm sitting on has the extra wide butt

You know for big boys, but you can also add cup holders adjustable backs parts trays even armrest

Which we're going to attach these podcast stools. Anyway, check them out made in the usa

I love these guys viper industrial dot com. Let's viper with a why

Typically on set I can't wear sunglasses why because I'm often

Looking at a screen and a lot of times it's hard to really see what's going on if my lenses are too dark

But heatwave fix that problem these new photochromics

They adjust from almost clear to a pretty dark tint depending on the sun

Which is great because when I was in australia filming jim kana

It was one really bright especially in the outback and there's also a ton of flies out there

These prevented them from getting into my eyes. I don't actually understand how the technology works. They told me it's wizardry

I believe them you should too

You should also get yourself a pair and if you have an extra large head they fit pretty nicely

At semen this year I hit up the toil tread pass

Which is the best collection of builds at the show period and while I went there initially see the cars

I was really stoked to see that they'll be releasing a brand new tire that I know is going to make you track rats happy

It's the proxies sport r a new extreme performance track day tire and

It checks that 200 treadwear box those of you who actually race your cars know why that matters

This super grippy tire is set to drop next year coming in over 50 sizes covering 13 to 21 inch wheels

That's right

Whether you drive a mark 1 rabbit or a gt3 rs the sport r will fit the bill and as you know

I've marked oils forever. I got them on all my cars and trucks

James Pumphrey and Scotto Talk About Being Enemies, VWs and Other Cool Stuff - VERY VEHICULAR 006

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