Life as a Tech is Not Always "Sunny" with Sunny Massera

Think your shop is good?

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Hey, I'm Jeff with the Jada Mechanic Podcast.

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I'm fully self-taught.

I never went to school for automotive.

I just gravitated towards people that were better than me all the time.

And when I found myself to be the smartest person in the room,

it was time to do something else.

Amen. I say it all the time.

Go and find yourself a bigger room.

So yeah, morning.

Good morning.

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another exciting episode of the Jada Mechanic Podcast.

We're sitting here at SEMA Apex 2025.

And I'm sitting with a good friend of mine, Sonny Masera.

Masera.

Masera, yeah.

Yeah.

Good morning, Sonny. How's it going, bro?

It's good. I had to make my way here pretty quickly.

I woke up a little bit late, you know?

Nice fun night.

And booked over here.

And I'm excited to be here.

This is great, you know, first time at SEMA.

So it's a bit overwhelming.

Yeah, for everybody listening, Sonny was our initial pick for the giveaway.

And then by the time we let Sonny know that, hey, congratulations,

he had already went and booked his own stuff to get here.

So that was like, OK, crap.

You know, what do we do?

Go to plan B. And plan B fell through.

So, you know, you're here.

Yeah.

And this is your first time?

First time I was determined to get here one way or another.

My boss said he was going to bring the whole crew,

but he kind of changed his mind, which is understandable.

You know, it's kind of expensive to bring 10 guys to SEMA to Vegas.

So my wife and I came and I've got somebody showing up today and just

and taken it all in.

It's it's a lot.

I mean, there's so much to see.

It's it's amazing.

Now, tell us where you work.

I work at Heritage Broncos in Tigard, Oregon.

We build custom ground up new builds.

I'm actually the service manager, restoration department guy.

I take old Broncos and put new parts on them, basically.

Oh, that is amazing.

It's fun.

I get to build some really cool cars.

We do some side projects like I just finished a 68 Mustang Fastback.

With a Gen 4 Coyote and brand new parts all across the board.

Wow.

And yeah, it's fun.

Well, when you say the Broncos, like all the older vintage or like so,

the big stuff like the OJ Bronco, will you touch that?

Not so much those.

It's it's the first gen Broncos 66 to 77s.

You know, the one everybody's everybody wants.

And there's there's a big demand for them.

I mean, we've got we're producing maybe one a week at this point,

like out the door.

The last the last couple days of it are like quality control.

And I have a lot to do with that, just making sure it's assembled correctly

and it drives correctly and, you know, and shake them out.

So every day I get to go drive around for a couple hours,

sometimes in a brand new Bronco.

That's not a bad gig.

It's not a bad gig.

I mean, you know, get to hop in a brand new fully leather coyote swapped

Bronco and just go driving around.

So the like is there repo tubs and bodies?

Oh, yeah.

You can buy every part brand new for those things.

I mean, from the, you know, axles all the way, you know,

we use Kinster chassis right now and they're a great product.

We get them fully built.

All the suspension is already in it, depending on, you know,

if they want a four link or they want, you know, standard springs or there's different

combinations. It's building.

This is like they used to back in the day where you could order the vehicle exactly

how you want.

You want this color, this color interior, this color stitching,

this steering wheel, you know, this many speakers.

So each one's a little unique.

Now these customers, like I want to think that if you're going to go and again,

they don't have to talk pricing, but if you buy one of them,

I don't think they're using as a trail rig per se.

Oh, no, no, no.

I have built a few trail rig trucks and they're basically built the same.

You know, maybe put some rock guards on them and stuff like that.

But for the most part, they're street trucks.

But I mean, you know, you can't lift them too much.

They get a little unstable.

So it's a combination of having to lift the body enough just to like stuff of,

you know, seven, three Godzilla motor in them.

We've done a few of those and those are just absolutely a ball to drive.

Yeah. Wow.

And I got to this point, like I worked at another Bronco place about five,

six years ago and kind of got into it.

And ironically, I'm a Chevy guy.

I like to build Chevy's, but I build everything.

You know, you throw it, throw anything at me and I'll fix it.

But I made the choice to build customs and hot rods because it's just a different mindset.

It's a different customer, different timeframe.

Now, I think you probably were a lot like me where that was what we grew up on that stuff

that was on TV and we thought that's what we wanted to do, right?

Let's do that customization stuff.

I didn't really have a TV when I was a kid.

I grew up out in the middle of nowhere and, you know, we had a little,

a little seven inch black and white TV up till I was about 10 or 11 years old.

My dad is a breaker.

He breaks every car ever.

So by the time I was like 12, I had a hundred cars sitting around my property.

Wow.

And I just got outside and start tinkering them with them.

You know, I started messing with cars when I was nine or 10,

rebuilt a motorcycle when I was 11.

Right.

And just kind of worked into it.

You know, my first car, somebody gave me when I was 14.

I was going to go buy this little Mazda for $200 and the lady was like,

oh, it's your first car.

And I was like, yeah, she's just like, you can have it.

So she gave it to me.

So I went, took it home, did a head gasket on it, drove it for a couple of years

and just started fixing more and more cars.

14 year drive in the car.

Yeah.

I live way in the middle of nowhere in New Mexico.

So it's like, you know, it's like,

Yeah.

We were talking to your Albuquerque.

Well, my wife's from Albuquerque.

I live there for a little bit.

I grew up in Northern New Mexico and in Taos, little ski artist town, you know, real,

real beautiful, real poor economy.

Okay.

You know, there's the haves and have nots, of course, everywhere.

But yeah, I was, I was kind of blessed and I was in an isolated place to where I could

just, you know, hop in my little junker car and drive for five, 10 miles and there's nobody around.

Yeah.

So I just learned how to fix stuff myself.

And I got a job for a Porsche mechanic when I was 17, just doing repairs and,

you know, spark plugs and brakes and stuff.

And yeah, just kind of started from there.

And then I got another job when I was 20 for a hot rod guy builder.

And because I was good with like, you know, metric, you could say, compared to what he

was doing, they had me fixing all the, just any new car they came in and it was an old speed shop.

And those guys had some really bad habits that it took me a long time as a technician,

as a person to shed those bad habits of how to just interact with people, how to even clean

my tools, you know, it is, it, it was good and bad at the same time.

And it's taken me a long time to overcome those bad habits.

Now, like in work performance then, like the way processes and practices and stuff like that.

Yeah, lack thereof, you know, and it was an under the table job for a year.

I spent about six years there and I realized that it was just, I was getting nowhere.

So is it kind of like they were trying to be the cheaper alternative or trying to?

Yeah, it's a weird cause in the town I live in.

Nobody really wants to pay for anything.

Right.

So he did hot rods because his dad did hot rods.

So he got to do the expensive stuff while me and the other guys got to do the whatever else.

The stuff that kept the lights turned on, really.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, he literally owned the shop.

So it was like he had an electric bill to pay.

So he was paying us pennies.

But I, the way I see it is years in the trenches learning, learning my own processes and how to,

you know, fix, just fix machines, you know, like with minimal anything.

Yeah.

Um, in the last 10 years, I've made it a point to learn electrical and, you know, how, how,

because the modern cars are so like, you got to understand what a sensor, how a sensor works,

what's the, you know, what, what data comes out of it, what to do with the data.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I couldn't wire a car six years ago.

Now I can build a full harness, you know, and terminate everything and understand what it does

and troubleshoot it out.

Troubleshoot it out.

Yeah.

That's cool, man.

Yeah.

It's so, I think sometimes we forget like the, the going back to like, because the, the, the

passion for a lot of us, like I was talking yesterday, right?

It was what we kind of grew up on.

Like I was a hot rod magazine kind of kid, right?

Yeah.

Like I always was reading hot rod.

Yeah.

And I always wanted to be at Seaman.

I always wanted to, you know, know how Boyd Cottington did this or Chip foosted that or

something like that.

And it was like, and then Jesse James and that shop dynamic, I'm not a motorcycle guy,

but I'm like, well, he's got some pretty cool stuff going on in the shop, right?

Well, I appreciate the craftsmanship and the art of it and the ingenuity that comes with

building machines from ground up.

But you see some of those guys and they go down that road of that, that's where the passion

takes them.

Yeah.

And then again, having to fix like a lot of the, the grocery getter kind of day to day,

mundane cars.

Sure.

And it, and it puts that fire out for a lot of them, right?

They get beat down by, by the, the industry, what it is.

Yeah.

No, I've been there.

I've been at jobs where like I really wanted to do, do, do it.

But the circumstances, the customer base, the boss, I mean, I just switched jobs about

not even six months ago.

Guy worked for us a good guy, but he just, he didn't, he didn't have the, he didn't have

a good culture.

He didn't, he didn't, he wasn't really looking out for any of his guys.

He's more of a user, but you know, I don't really have anything against them except for

the fact that he's just, he didn't see it, you know?

Yeah.

So was some of his business decisions kind of, you think, impacting the culture in the

way that it had to be?

Yeah.

You know, it's a complicated bag, you know, working for somebody, but he would, he would

do right by the customers at his own expense.

And then he wouldn't, he wouldn't charge properly for his own or, or my work, you know?

I tell him, hey, I spent 10 hours doing this one thing on a 37 Plymouth.

And he would, you know, he charged two or three hours and that's just an insult to him.

It's an insult to me.

And I just, you know.

It wasn't worth doing.

No, it wasn't worth doing.

I mean, and then it's a culture thing too.

Like, you know, I'd rather work for somebody who appreciates me and leans on me to get

things done that he needs done and, and then reciprocates too, you know?

So it's, you know, you've worked for a lot of people.

I've worked for a lot of people and sometimes it fits.

Most of the time it doesn't fit, you know?

And, and I learned a long time ago, like a lot of what the culture that I found was,

was I was responsible for a big part of it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Oh yeah.

In the sense of I was, it wasn't any kind of leadership role, but it always goes back to

that, you know, that, that word of perspective.

Yeah.

And I can wake up today and think, fuck, I got to go to this job again.

Or I can go right on, man.

I'm, I'm, I'm employed, you know, like we're not in the middle of a pandemic or something

like that.

And I can go to work and I can, I can, you know, have some fun, learn some stuff,

collect some money and go home safe sound, you know, and, and do it again tomorrow.

Yeah.

And, and that was a lot.

It took me a long time, a lot of maturity to realize that it's like, yeah, there's just

some people you shouldn't work for a hundred percent.

But there's also a lot of us that are, are not understanding why maybe the business does

what it does.

And then we think that it's like, I'm being not treated correctly.

And the reality is, is like, yeah, there's some truth to both sides.

Yeah.

But in order to get together, we have to get together to improve it.

Yeah.

One person going by himself is not going to improve it.

You know.

Yeah.

It takes a team.

And so I've actually had a few of my own shops, you know, about 10 years ago, I opened a shop

in Albuquerque.

It was customs.

I ended up doing a lot of just repair stuff because that's, you know, it was a big

blooded market.

There's shops everywhere with a really low shop rate and they did really poor work.

But then there's other guys who had, you know, they're super busy.

They charge a lot.

They put out good work.

So I was stuck somewhere kind of in the middle and I made a couple of bad decisions with

partners and people I wanted to work with.

And coming to the realization, I'm not a businessman.

I never went to school for that.

You know, I went right from high school into working on cars straight.

So most automotive conferences, unfortunately, only focus on one side of the shop.

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And then I opened the shop a couple of years ago with the pressure of a friend that I was

building a truck for and it turned into us not being friends because he pushed me into a

situation I wasn't ready for.

And I did OK.

But it was just me by myself doing the whole thing.

And you know, it's really hard to do the work, sell the work, do the paperwork,

you know, just and it's not for me.

I've never understood that when people get into that partnership, right?

Where and I've seen it where it's like we're partners, but they're absentee.

And then it's like, well, and I again, just going back to being I'm a technician,

it's simple math.

Yeah, you're absentee, but I'm doing all of this.

How's the pay breakdown for the business?

How does and then you look at it and you're like, I don't see the value of you,

even though whatever you mean, you might be 50-50 in investment wise.

We're not doing 50-50 workload.

Yeah.

And then it's like, what should be your take?

And that's always something that when I would talk to guys and like, yeah, I had a partner.

I hear the he'd the warnings from a lot of people now and they say,

if you can't do it on your own, don't do it without, you know.

If you don't have the, it's not necessarily the financials behind you,

but there's there's so many pieces in place that have to have to work.

And yeah, you got to have a little bit of cash stacked up to start your own shop.

There's just so many hidden things that I wasn't even aware of.

I mean, just just listening to your podcast and Lucas and David's podcast,

I just opened my mind to I'm like, I'm glad I closed my business because it was it was

just too much. And I was stressed about it. I didn't want to be there.

Even though I've got, you know, a blown big block Camaro and a 57 Chevy sitting there

waiting for me to work on it, you know, or we're like, you know,

put an engine in an OJ Bronco or whatever.

Yeah.

It it kind of saps your soul for it.

You know, you don't want to do it even though it's yours, you know.

That makes it worse too, because, you know, I own it, but I can't.

And so tell me that the customer, the, how do I call it?

The custom customer, like I want to feel that there's a lot of like we talk all the time

about the Google reviews and liability of all this and, you know,

your reputation and all that kind of stuff.

I have to think when those people like are taking that much money and giving it to you

to build them something that they have envisioned in their mind.

Yeah.

Like the pressure becomes even worse than just doing one break job for Mrs. Smith.

It is.

The pressure becomes like paying me what, $100,000 for this turnkey.

On the low end.

Yeah. You know what I mean?

But yeah, there's a higher expectation, which pushes me to do better myself,

you know, because I know there's a higher expectation.

And I want to bring that value of my skill set and my passion to give them what they want.

Also, while being respected for the way I do it, you know,

it's a different thing.

You know, I didn't like the stress of just working on people's regular cars,

because then it's a tool and I appreciate that and I understand that.

But when it's somebody's toy, it's like it's a piece of art.

They don't want, you know, they'd rather hang it on the wall and drive it once a year than,

you know, you know, it's and it's a status symbol.

And and that's fine.

That's what they want out of their car.

I'm just happy that I'm able to get my skill set to the point where I can deliver that for them.

Yeah.

The thing that always made me shy away was those people that are paying that kind of money.

They have like, even though they're one person, sometimes the influence that they wheeled.

Equivalent to 10 people or 100 people.

Right.

So you could do, you can drop up that one job, mess it up, whatever.

They're not happy with the color or whatever.

You know what I mean?

It happens.

Right.

They're not happy about the budget at the end of the time frame.

And they can really let a lot of more people know than Mrs. Smith's break job that had to come back

because, you know, we had slapped it at her request and then I came back with a squeak.

We had to go in and do rotors or something like that.

Yeah.

Well, that's that's the power of influence.

Right.

So the status symbol thing, what like when they come to you and say, I want, I want this.

Yeah.

Do they have like, do a lot of them come in and be like, I had one as a kid and I want one.

That's a lot of it.

Yeah.

Or my buddy had one or I've always wanted this.

I read it in a magazine and my current job now is I don't have to deal with that.

I'm in the shop.

I get to do my thing.

I don't have to sell the trucks.

I don't have to talk to the customers unless, you know,

Boss wants me to talk to them for a specific reason because, you know, I can explain things to him

that he doesn't want to talk about.

But, you know, my boss ran a car dealerships for a long time and he just he made the decision.

He didn't want to sell cars who wanted to build cars.

So he built a Bronco in his garage by himself and five years ago.

Now we're selling, you know, Bronco every two weeks or, you know, it's we're building four

door Broncos.

There's not very many people doing that.

Yeah.

And so it's it's a it was a choice he made.

And that was the type of person I wanted to see.

Like, you know, I don't want just a job.

I want a career path.

And there's not many guys that I can do what I can do.

You know, any good technician could do what I can do like we all can.

Right.

But there's a certain amount of tenacity involved.

And again, it's the like you said, it's going back to the bad habits thing.

Yeah.

It's like when I see a lot of technicians that like get into the trim body side of

having to do a repair, maybe you have to take a door off to do something.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That's when I see the the flat rate.

Like I just got to get it friggin done this door on kind of thing.

Smash the latch all the crap.

Dude, you know, whatever.

Whereas then you see the guy at the body shop, which body shop guys are flat rate too.

Yeah.

But it's like they come over and just ding, ding, ding with that door.

I'll put it back on.

It looks exactly like it never was removed.

Like, yeah, there's an art to that.

And that's where I've seen that when we say, well, anybody could do it,

it takes a different of being able to click.

OK, now I got to think differently, right?

Like I'm not trying to get these spark plugs out as fast as possible.

Right.

I'm trying to make this look a certain way.

And that's a different type of technician, right?

Shut the hood on a lot of what we do.

Nobody, if they never have to live the hood again, we don't know what it's like.

Yeah.

Right.

But when you do the kind of custom fab stuff, people are looking at it all the time.

Oh, yeah.

A door gap that doesn't align right?

A high level of scrutiny is involved.

They look at it and they're like, how come there's a little bubble there?

Your trim's a little off there?

And I found that I can only do my job as good as the quality of the parts I'm buying and installing.

So I just did a 68 Mustang.

Most of the parts are Chinese and they just don't fit right.

It takes hours to make this little thing work or massage it in a place

and nothing ever fits.

You could take three Broncos that are exactly the same truck,

the same exact parts.

None of the parts fit the same.

Yeah.

And it's just so it's that.

And part of it, I slowed myself down too.

Like I can't do flat rate.

I don't want to hurt myself like just trying to push to get these cars out where

whereas custom is I'm allowed to take the time to make sure it's exactly right

before I can say, OK, it's done.

You know, I'm happy with it.

And when I'm when I'm done with a car or a vehicle that I'm, you know, I say,

hey, I'm done.

I sign off on it.

They don't even question it.

They're like, cool.

But I always have we have, you know, multiple guys doing quality control just

just because you can't see everything.

There's some guys out there that really do have that eye,

but most people don't, you know, it's better to have two people,

three people look at it, drive it, you know.

So how many miles gets on a new unit before you turn over to customer?

Three to 500.

Yes, absolutely.

I mean, we've had we've turned out cars at 50 and they come back immediately.

Yeah.

You know, like I have transmission.

Silinoids fail at 180 miles.

Differentials start leaking at 300 miles.

So we have to really put some miles and just work everything out

and shake them down and just go back and retorque everything that you touch

because it's going to.

Yeah, we have a bunch of young guys in the shop that we're having.

I have to go and make sure they're doing everything right.

But I'm, you know, I only have to usually show them once or twice

before they get it.

And then they're getting them to have it.

I'm like, you know, hand them a torque wrench.

This is your friend.

This is what this is torqued or and when they make small mistakes,

I explain, you know, we go through the learning process of being like,

this is how this is done.

You know, or what was your thought process to lead to this decision

for you to do it this way?

You know, so what could we have done better?

What what's the young people's like?

Do they get tripped out on the idea that they're working on something

that is older than them?

Like the design of it.

Yeah.

The throwback, whatever you want to call it, the vintage vibe.

Like, do they get it?

Like they think they're cool or they're just like.

Well, they do.

They appreciate the uniqueness of it.

You know, I've ironically, I segwayed and I answered an ad.

I think it was Craig's list for a hot rod mechanic.

So I go and check it out.

It's it's an airplane hanger and they're building vintage DC threes.

Wow.

And I was like, oh, I build cars and they're like,

yeah, well, guys like you tend to carry over, you know, the skill set

and the the ability to work with the tools and stuff.

So they give me this aptitude test and I pass the aptitude test,

which is just, you know, reading instructions, torquing this,

doing a process, right?

Do the process.

So I got the job.

But then they had me doing like sandblasting for 10 hours a day

and just doing really low level stuff where all the other AMP

mechanics are like younger than me laughing at me.

Because I'm, you know, in my 40s and they're in their late 20s,

they're making three times as much as me and I'm just like,

and then they're looking down on me and I was like,

you don't you don't get to do that.

Like, you know, like, can you fix your own car?

No, I don't think so.

Yeah.

And so that I didn't last very long at that just because it wasn't a good fit for me.

Ironically, I got my nephew a job there and he lasted a year and that

got him him into a school program in Oklahoma.

Now he's fully certified to work on airplanes.

Very cool.

So it's like, you know, everything happens for a reason, you know.

I never was happy to be fired, but there's always a reason for that.

Whether it's whether I fit or they don't fit, it's what it is.

I've told it many times.

Most of the time when they pulled me in and fired me, I wasn't surprised.

Like, we'd already kind of made an impasse and come to a decision that like,

you were getting everything you were going to get out of me.

Yeah.

And it was going to be compressed.

It was going to go lower and lower, you know, week by week,

because we had come to a place where I had like either felt I was needing more financial

or tooling or opportunity wise.

And you were not interested in giving it.

Sometimes it's just respect.

Like the respect drops off, my motivation drops off, productivity drops off.

It's like, why am I here?

If you're not appreciating what I'm doing or putting me to my best skill,

you know, ability, then what are we doing here?

And the legacy we leave sometimes is the same thing.

Like I said, I, you know, way back when I left a dealership job and they,

I had five of my friends leave within the next two years.

Oh, wow.

So, I mean, it is like in this industry right now, people are not, you know,

there's so many opportunities out there for young people that want to move that,

like they don't have to stay at some place that they're not valued.

Oh, no.

There's certain opportunities.

And then like, if you're one of these leaders in one of these places,

and we had a great conversation yesterday about leadership,

if you're one of these leaders and yet you're seeing your people go,

walk out the door.

Yeah.

And it's two things.

If you're like the owner that maybe is not there all the time,

you know, you're trying to manage three stores and you don't know why the technician left.

Okay, cool.

When you see another one leave, you better be talking to your people as to why those two

texts left.

Yeah.

Because either two things are happening, somebody is paying them more to leave,

which you got to go and nip that in the bud.

Or somebody's driving them out the door that probably works for you as well.

And then you got to really look at that because what,

if you have a manager that will cost you five technicians.

Oh, yeah, that's like, that's, that's.

You really evaluate what's happening there.

Is it like, what are you not seeing?

You know, is it yourself or is it, you know, the culture in the shop?

Is it one of the other employees?

And we could take the hard line and go, you know what,

all five of them were, were whatever they had this wrong and they did that wrong.

Well, that's not taking accountability.

It's not.

And look at the shortage that you're in.

Like if you want to replace those five,

start running interviews and replace one at a time.

Nobody wants to see five leave, you know, in a short period of time,

without even being able to find a replacement for the first one that walked out the door.

Nobody in business can tell me that's how they intend to do it.

This idea that like, I'm going to walk in and fire all my staff, we have heard it.

Sure.

But it isn't like I'm walking in and firing five.

Yeah.

I walked in and fired two.

Right.

One maybe at the most, right?

I've maybe a fire advisor and a technician and I went back out into the bench

and I put the earbud in my ear and I went to work and I turned my, my own business around.

Yeah.

When you lose five, that's like, think about the production that comes down.

Think about the revenue stream that's not coming in.

Think about the money you'll spend now with a company like Promotive or something like that.

Try and replace five.

You're looking at a three year minimum of trying to replace five tax.

Unless you find a unicorn and most of them are already,

they're already doing their thing somewhere.

Some of them, you know, some of them like to move around.

We talked to yesterday, Tony Mark, you know, oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

That's a sharp guy.

That's a unicorn, man.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

And he ain't going anywhere.

I wish I was that good when I was his age, man.

Wow.

I'd be somewhere else right now.

I'd probably be right here, but yeah.

No, we'd be here, but you know.

In a different capacity.

Yeah.

Different capacity.

And I look back and I don't, do you have any regrets?

Oh yeah, but they don't do me any good.

I mean, I regret, I regret maybe not going to school or learning some of the skill sets I had.

I mean, I'm fully self taught.

I never went to school for automotive.

Right.

I just gravitated towards people that were better than me all the time.

And when I found myself to be the smartest person in the room,

it was time to do something else.

Amen.

I say it all the time.

Go and find yourself a bigger room.

Get into another room because like I come down here and I talk to these people and they're like,

one guy that I have a lot of respect for is like,

and I go like, I'm, you know, I sit in these chats and I listen, I barely say anything because like,

other than to say, good job or I'm a support, I'm a cheerleader because like,

they're all so smart to me.

And I go, and he goes, man, you've been doing this 30 years.

If you weren't all that good, you still wouldn't be here.

And that's, that's true to some extent.

Like it's valid.

It's valid.

But it's like, when I think about where I'm at and where I see some of these other people's processes,

I don't use, I don't have processes like them.

But he said to me, he said,

instinct is a superpower and instinct is a power and a tool and it's part of your process.

Don't ever push away from it, you know, let it guide you.

So I think instinct is built over recognizing, just being aware of what's happening and

understanding cars and people, machines in general, you know.

So self taught, yeah.

Do you have like, who did you kind of, like, are you kind of a guy like me that was like,

spent a lot of time and you got some internet access and was like,

started to learn that way or?

A little bit, just being in shops for, you know, 28 years now.

Just when I started, like I said, I got my first job when I was 17 in a shop and just learned that way.

About eight years ago, I decided to start using the internet to teach myself, you know, how to,

how to do wiring and how to do sensors, you know, and just,

I'm a sponge, I just want to learn everything.

There's certain things I'm not good at that I recognize that I'm not good at,

but I still work on those skillsets so I can be more proficient in my job,

whatever it is, you know.

Are you like me?

I find the things that really interest me, I become good at, and then it's like,

if somebody's like, I tell all the time, I suck at air conditioning.

It wouldn't matter because it's just boring to me, right?

I understand the principles of it.

Sure.

It seems very repetitive.

Hook the machine up, like do this.

It seems like the same three steps, right?

Sure.

And then it's like you hook the machine, and then you get to the repair.

It seems like, oh my God, like, you know, it's that process.

Even though that process really is how we should apply to more things than how we fix cars, right?

A similar process all the time, but it just bores me.

It bores me, there's no thrill there.

So I know what I'm not, what I'm weak at is the stuff that just doesn't interest me.

And then the stuff that I genuinely really gets under my skin, I'm not necessarily great at,

but I enjoy the challenge of that.

Any mentors in your career that were impactful or did you kind of not have that either?

No.

Well, just dogged persistence to learn and figure things out, you know, like I just like to fix

things, whether it's cars or a plunder or, you know, like friendships, which those seem to be

harder to fix than a vehicle.

At least the machine does what I tell it to, you know.

So yeah, people are, people are a riddle, right?

Like they're, you know, and again, like I've learned more and more, like,

you got to meet them where they are.

You can't grab them and drag them up to where we are.

It's perspective.

Yes, you have to have a perspective of where somebody else is coming from.

You know, what's their thought process?

What's their emotional process on dealing with things and not being judgmental over that,

you know, like just because somebody's coming at me with whatever it doesn't mean I have to

fight with them about it or become, I have a conflict, we just take a step back and

understand where they're coming from.

And it's a lot easier to communicate, not be offended at somebody's perspective.

Would you say that you're in a mentorship role at this point?

I am.

That's where I kind of found myself.

They realized that I was good with the younger guys and I can just kind of,

I'm good at explaining things and I like to teach.

I want there to be more good technicians and people have just good solid thought process.

You know, how to, you know, figure out what's wrong, make a fix or do the fix and then verify

your fix and then rinse, wash, repeat, do it again, you know.

And we all have our different processes and different things have different processes.

What's some of the challenges you see with the young people?

Distraction.

Yeah.

They get distracted real easy.

You know, short attention spans, they can't just stay on a thing for two hours straight without,

you know, or.

Where do you think that comes from?

Media, TV, television, phones, phones, I mean, phones are ridiculous.

I've conditioned my brain now that after about like six minutes,

I can turn on a YouTube video and probably the five minute mark.

I'm looking at my phone at the same time.

Yeah, I'm working on that myself.

I try to be more engaged in what's in front of me, not just what I'm holding.

And some of it is good because I think like sometimes we absorb a lot from just osmosis,

like I hear it and I'm not necessarily watching what Paul's doing on the screen,

but I heard him and he still goes in the bank.

And then other times I'm like, did I ever even watch that video?

And I know I have because YouTube tells me that I watched it.

I can't remember what was the fix for the car.

What was it about?

Delivery is a lot of it too.

Like if it's a solid delivery that I can get the concept of what is being relayed immediately,

then I'm like, okay, I understand that, that.

But like if it's delivered in a weird way, then I'm like, wait a minute,

do I go back and look at it over and over again to try to understand

what they're trying to tell me.

Like I get what they're doing, but I don't understand the way they're saying it.

And a lot of the time I find myself now, like in two minutes, I'm like,

oh, it's going to be that.

And then I zone out.

Yeah.

Right.

And then sometimes 14 minutes later, it was what I thought.

Or 14 minutes later, it was something completely different.

I'm like, shoot, what did I miss?

Right.

But it's David Roman.

It talks all that time about that TikTok brain, right?

Your condition for three minutes and he's not wrong.

It's I see the kids now when it's like attention span of 30 seconds at best.

One minute to two minute, right?

We were talking about the gentleman, Jamie.

He watches his daughter on YouTube and she's literally like this, scroll, scroll, scroll,

scroll, scroll.

When she stops and he starts counting how many seconds did you watch that?

And then he'll ask her, does he matter what the topic was of the video?

What made you watch that video longer than those other 10 you just flipped by?

That's how like we have to unlock this going forward with the young people and how we get

them to learn.

I think it's, I don't know how we do it.

I don't know if we give them more 10 minute breaks throughout the day.

And you know, or that's a hard one, you know, like, because like the media companies, all

of them, they're, they're designed to captivate you and then hold your attention by flipping

it and you get that little dope in me every time you change.

And it's, it's just like they're programming us to, to, to not think really it's interesting.

And I, I think back to some of the texts I knew that were smokers, right?

So they, they kind of maybe do a task.

Yeah.

Like, uh, I'll do the rear shoes on this back of this van.

Yeah.

And once the rear shoes, I'm going out for a cigarette.

And I say outside because like when, where I would work, it was a designated smoking

section, couldn't smoke a shot.

So I would find that they went and then come back and then, whereas now I think it's like,

they can be in the middle of something and then a phone beep or a thought comes under

their head or, but I have to do this or have to do that.

And then they picked this thing up.

Yep.

And, and before long, 10 minutes has gone and then they're completely

brains going in a different direction.

Whereas the cigarette thing is like, they kind of came out and had the cigarette at the same

time, looked at the phone, went back in, went back to work.

Yeah.

So I think going forward, when you see someone, they talk about the bathroom break, right?

Yeah.

Like, yeah, they're sitting there on their phone.

Sure.

But if, I'd rather, if they spent 20 minutes in a bathroom and then every time they were out

in the bay, they're actually tool on a car, I'd be cool with that.

Not like every time I turn over, that's two minutes on the, on the phone.

Yeah.

Seven minutes on a tool, two minutes on the phone, seven minutes on the tool.

I know how that's, that way of doing things leads to little things to get missed.

The, the bolt didn't go, the final torque.

Yep.

You know, the, the connector didn't get pushed in all the way.

Connector didn't get pushed in at all.

Like, what's, it's breaking up the process, you know, they just have to, you need to be

able to think it all the way through before you change the subject in your brain.

And some of the, some of the other guys I work with are pretty good about not looking at their

phone and that, and I try to encourage that, you know, by not doing it myself.

You know, of course, you know, like turn around, I'm trying to figure out what part I'm looking

for or like, you know, or a process to fix this or that.

But then we're going to the DVI thing in a lot of shops where it's like, and they're on their

phone nonstop.

Like that would, what would trip me up because I'd be in the middle of the DVI and I'd be,

Oh, use your own phone for the DVI.

Okay, cool.

Go ready to go over to tech metric to do the DVI.

Oh, there's a message from Lucas.

Stop the DVI.

Oh, ding.

You know, and it's before long.

So it's like, I said to them, I said, I don't want a phone.

Give me a tablet.

Yeah.

Because otherwise if I pick up my phone when I'm trying to do the other, well, I don't really

care.

You can, no, listen, man, like I'm, I'm taken too long because this little thing that I

carry in my pocket all day is distracting me when I'm supposed to be working.

Sure.

And they go, well, that's on you.

I get it.

But can I just have the tablet, please?

Well, it's, I mean, we're trying to use technology to make things more efficient

while battling the inefficiency that's kind of built into the technology.

So like having a phone while you're trying to do your DVI, which I've never had to do

on myself, but you know, we don't do that in old cars.

No.

But I should, like I do take videos of the trucks when they're done, you know,

like I've torqued all this and like the door gaps right here.

So I can take it, show, you know, send it to the customer so they know progress reports

and whatnot.

But it's, it's interesting just moving forward, learning how to take this technology

and make it so we're actually getting better and we're more efficient and we can

have these processes set up that don't just distract us.

And so that's, that's a tough one.

I don't see a clear path for that moving forward.

But, you know, if we all work on a little bit here and there, I think, you know, and

teach the young guys to not be distracted and that their lives will be better if they have,

if they get that, you know, I'm sure you like me, that dogged persistence.

Like when I get into a problem, I have to figure that out before I let it go.

When I'm into something that's kicking my tail, I have to turn my phone off.

You know, like just walk over to the laptop and look at the service data again.

Like I have to turn my phone off because otherwise it's like,

I'm going to tell myself, you deserve a break.

You need a break.

Go look at your phone for 10 minutes.

And when I come back up to 10 minutes, I don't feel like more refreshed, more

invigorated.

I feel I'm 10 minutes behind.

Yeah, exactly.

I just wasted 10 minutes, you know, distracting myself.

These units that you're building out kind of go in a different way.

Tell me how, like they're not born with a VIN number.

So how do you make that work so that it's...

We take, we'll take old chassis that have VIN numbers.

I mean, we'll buy literally a rolled squished truck that's part of a frame with the VIN tag

with the title and title it to a new truck.

Wow.

That's mainly, that's a lot of it because I mean,

what makes a truck usually is the VIN numbers, you know.

So, I mean, there's a little gray area there, but for the most part,

they're already previously titled vehicles that already existed.

But you're putting on an aftermarket chassis to an aftermarket body tub to...

Brand new bodies, brand new tubs or, you know, frames and then, yeah,

applying those VIN numbers.

And it's, in Oregon, it's where we're at.

It's, there's some kind of loophole there that we can take as long as it's got a piece

of the original vehicle.

It's technically a restoration, you know, even though like,

maybe we're only using four inches of the frame that actually has the VIN number on it.

The rest of it's just rotten.

We cut it out, you know, put it on the truck.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

Let's see, put an OE dash in a brand new body.

And if it's got the tag on it, you're perfectly good to go.

It's around the glovebox door.

It's just a little tag.

It's riveted in.

I mean, it's, yeah, it's crazy.

Done that a lot.

So we got, we have people looking all over the country for Broncos in any condition.

I mean, we'll take one that's completely rotten.

Right.

And just use the VIN and part of the frame into the new truck.

Yeah.

So I see Dennis Collins.

I don't know if you know that name.

Dennis Collins used to hang out with the guy from Gas Monkey Garage a lot.

And Dennis Collins does...

Oh, Aaron Kaufman.

So Aaron Kaufman was the mechanic for...

Richard Rawlings.

But Dennis Collins, the one he saw with like, it's, he used to run a Jeep thing.

He's a Jeep guy.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

You know, the guy, he's that totally cough.

Like everything is coffee talk.

Yeah, yeah.

He's now buying up a bunch of the old Broncos stuff too.

Because again, because like as long as a Jeep guy, right, he sees the trend of like,

well, you know, like he had, I don't know, at some point, like 300 different CJs in his

collection, you know, going back.

CJs just don't get the money Broncos get.

And that's crazy to me.

Yeah, me too.

That's crazy to me.

Broncos are just Ford Jeeps really in my brain.

I just see a CJ that says Ford on it.

And when I think of it like, and again, I'm going to date myself like,

Daisy Duke from the Duke's of Hazard drove a CJ.

You know, there's so many like...

Oh, I've built lots of Jeeps too, man.

Tons of Jeeps.

Yeah.

And I mean, to me, once you build enough cars, they're all just kind of the same.

It's like, this one's purple.

That one's got this engine.

That one's got those wheels.

This is the four-link.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

That one's got the old original leaky piece of crap under the hood.

And this one's got a brand new like, you know, hammy under it or something like that.

Like that's that's cool stuff for me.

Like, but Dennis was known for like taking the old CJs and putting on that Holley Sniper EFI system.

Tons of those.

Yeah.

Tons of those.

I'm like...

That's the fix for that.

That old crappy carburetor and...

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, applying modern technology to these old vehicles is, I mean, part of a lot of my job,

actually, you know, like just making them drive like a new car, which is hard to do when the

thing's 60 years old.

You know, I put Holley fuel injection on 50s Cadillacs and just run way better, better fuel

economy, start right up, you know, things like that.

And that's fun.

I learned how to do that, you know, just out of necessity, you know.

Now, when I think about like how when I was coming up, I wanted to be like,

oh, I still want to have a car that has a carburetor on it and take over that.

And now I look at it and I'm like, I want no part of having to go out of there and

mess with a choke and like, I don't know.

I want to be able to hit the key, walk back into the house to can sit there and idle and

not have to worry about like if I come out of here and it shuts off,

flood the piece of crap out and what am I going to be doing to get it rolling down the road?

Yeah.

I mean, having a bullet gas it on top of your engines is like, it's a little outdated.

But I mean, like I'm the only guy in the shop that knows how to work on a carburetor.

So I'm the carburetor guy.

I walk up with my little screwdriver in a timing light and the thing runs way better,

you know.

But yeah, I mean, I like I have a 72 Skylark Suncoop super rare car.

It's got retractable roof.

It's got a carburetor on it.

Don't drive it because it's got a carburetor on it.

I'm like, I've been meaning to put a sniper on it.

I just haven't got around to doing it.

But, you know, I build other people's dreams and I'm not I'm not so like there's a lot of

car guys are just obsessed with their cars.

And I'm like, they're still a car to me.

Like how did you come into that car?

Oh, a long series of trades.

Oh, I think it started with an S10 Blazer that I that I paid for like $200 for.

Right.

And then I traded it for I took the motor out and traded it for a 69 GTO,

oh, which I blew up a couple engines and that when I was young.

And then I traded the GTO for the 72 Skylark Suncoop, you know, Sunny Suncoop.

I had to have the car granted the GTO is worth way more money now.

Ironic segway to that.

That car ended up going from New Mexico to Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

And then now it's in Portland.

Wow.

I'm trying to find it because I will buy that car back.

Right.

Yeah, it's like that one unicorn car that we all wish we still had.

Yeah.

Got dozens of those, but that's the one car.

There was a guy back home when I was a kid.

I can remember I went to high school with his son.

And at one point I think he had like six GTO's in his garage at home.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Like and so he, you know, we're talking the early 90s, right?

So they're a 30 year old car at that point, right?

Like not nearly the same price tag as today.

I mean, an empty shell is 10 grand now.

Yeah, I don't know where those cars went.

I couldn't even, if you asked me to remember his name, I couldn't tell you.

But like, just to think like your dad had seven GTO's in the garage.

You know what that's worth now?

Yeah.

But I don't think he still has seven, right?

Yeah.

And we were, these aren't like tempests with a badge on it.

These were legit.

Two, two, four, two vins, you know.

Yeah, I've had five GTO's myself, but they're all like, you know, basket cases.

One's a judge clone.

Yeah.

And I had to put a cam in immediately.

And I never, it's like people ask me if I have a Bronco.

I'm like, why would I keep $150,000 truck?

Like that's just ridiculous.

I can have a $15,000 truck that will do the same thing for me.

Yeah.

And you know, I don't have that liability or the expense and insurance.

When we were ripping around the other night out on the dunes.

Like Tuesday night, I'm ripping around in this and it's like in this clapped out beat up,

you know, Kawasaki, Predator, UTV, I'm like, why are guys spending $60,000 for a Wrangler

to, to try and make it do what this does?

Yeah.

Like this is a 12.

This is a trashed out $5,000 machine on Marketplace.

And it'll do everything that a Wrangler will do.

Oh yeah.

Pedder than the Wrangler.

Like if you just want to get it, run the trail.

And I get it.

I'm a Jeep guy.

I totally get it.

Yeah.

But now after riding them out, like it's like a Jeep with nothing but what you need it to do.

Yeah, exactly.

But it's just stripped down bare bones.

Yeah.

This is what it's supposed to do.

Like, yeah.

We built, we did a 6.0 swap JK a couple of years ago.

And the thing is just, it's gnarly truck.

I mean, it is just bad to the bone.

Yeah.

But yeah, they don't take it off road.

They're like, it'll beat the snot out of this thing.

Doors will be falling off, you know?

It's like, we go get yourself a razor side by side.

Yeah.

And just, you know, go to town.

And you're not, you know, it's not going to affect how you go to work tomorrow, you know?

Collins Brothers did a Hemiswap JK, which is now a pretty popular thing, right?

It's a pretty common thing, yeah.

But I mean, they were doing super easy actually.

And I'm like, I want.

And then he was selling, yeah, that's 100 grand.

Yeah.

And I'm like, I don't like.

Guys are Hellcat swapping those things.

And it's just like, oh yeah, it's cool.

We're changing gears, transfer cases, like flexing the frame.

Like it's just too much.

Like, I mean, it's a status symbol.

Yeah.

They're not in four-wheel drive most of the time, right?

Oh, God, no.

Like you guys, I mean, get snow in New Mexico.

I mean, a little bit, but like.

Well, I grew up in Northern New Mexico.

It's super high altitude, 7,000 feet.

So it's snowed.

We have real winners there.

It's like more like Colorado, where I grew up.

You know, big mountains, high plateaus, but I live in Oregon, Portland.

And we might get snow twice a year.

We got ice storms that are crazy.

I mean, it's three inches of clear ice and everything.

And you see all these little kias and stuff and ditches,

because I can't really, all tires can't stay on the road.

I'm just like, you know.

Yeah, it's pretty funny.

What, so what, like, does your boss have any kind of,

when this fad goes away of the Broncos?

I don't want to say fad, but you know what I mean?

When they follow the style.

Sure.

Does he have another idea?

What, where will the next thing they'll go towards?

You know, I haven't really got into that with him.

We have a bunch of alternate, we call alternate builds happening.

We've got, you know, like a 78 F 250 with a Godzilla motor.

We've got a, I'm about to do a 66 Mustang convertible.

We've got a couple of cool scouts in the pipeline.

Yeah.

Like, like early Scout 80s.

Yeah.

I think a Scout 2.

We've got a couple of Jeep Swiss in there waiting to be built, early CJs.

Yeah.

So he's definitely diversifying in all the, all the trucks we have.

I mean, I think it were 25 Broncos in stock right now.

Most of them, they're all sold, already pre-sold.

I mean, so I'm like big four door ones and stuff like that.

I know we've got four going to SEMA this year.

I'm not SEMA Barrett Jackson.

Okay.

I'm like, they're not here.

I tried to get him to bring one, but he's-

Have you ever been to Barrett?

I haven't.

I built many of vehicles that have been sold at Barrett Jackson.

Twin Turb C10s and-

Oh, cool.

Yeah.

Crazy weird, I did a 69 and a Pro Street Camaro that went through that got some good money.

I did a really nice K5 Blazer, 72 K5 Blazer.

I got some good money.

You're making me just Jones out for all this rust free sheet metal that you can find.

Oregon's got some rusty stuff and a lot of these older Broncos that I'm not restoring.

I mean, it costs more to restore a Bronco than it does to just build one fresh.

But yeah, I grew up in New Mexico.

There's not a lot of rust there.

So when I did see rust, I'm like, what is this?

You know?

Yeah.

Must have come from Canada.

Yeah.

I mean, it could be from Illinois or something.

Just somewhere where there's lots of salt.

I've seen vehicles from parts of Colorado where they salt the roads a lot.

It'll sit on the side of the road for a bit.

Half the truck is rust.

The other half isn't, just because the way it sat in the snow bank, it's just super weird.

Because I mean, that's what I have to think.

When you do the customization thing, it's constantly things come in and out of favor.

The tuner market, right?

Like all the fast and furious kind of stuff.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

The more you customize a vehicle, the less people want it because it's already been

done to somebody else's taste.

You take a truck build in 99, and they spent $100,000 then.

That's a quarter million now.

And nobody wants the things.

It's got 90s wheels on it.

It's got the weird boat interior.

I remember the early 90s, late 80s vibe on Hot Rod.

And everything was like a solid alloy weld racing wheel.

Yeah.

A big gaudy stripe down the side.

Dark tubs of color.

Yeah.

Really weird graphics that would go across.

Oh yeah.

They look like surfboards with wheels or something.

The way they did them up.

And I'm like, and now they're coming back in style.

Like, oh, that one's pink.

Like, yeah, I want that.

With a twist, though, there's different stances, different wheels.

Now the wheel thing is crazy nowadays.

I mean, people spend $10,000 on wheels.

It's nuts.

Which is like crazy because you drive it along and you sort of miss a dog.

And all of a sudden, you bend a $2,000 wheel.

And then, oh yeah, I don't want to.

Well, there are a lot of them that aren't safe, too.

I mean, you're rolling around on a one ton truck with these spacers and thin tires.

And I mean, that's cool if that's what you like,

but I don't see the practicality or the safety in it.

No.

And again, going back to what sometimes what we get in,

like I had to safety a lifted F-250, which it's a very gray area,

but what you can sign is being safe, right?

Sure.

So, but immediately, like we've had some guys bring some stuff in

and it's like it's got wheel spacers and aftermarket wheels on it.

We're like, they're like, I got a buyer for this.

I'm like, that's cool.

We're ain't selling it like that.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, we'll like, we'll have to find a set of aftermarket or OE rims and tires,

put it on there.

Yep.

He can buy the spacers and the tires.

You do it yourself.

Take them all for himself.

Yeah.

But when it rolls off my lot with my safety on it,

it has to go with the way it is because like I've seen, you've seen it, we all seen it.

How the spacers come apart, like the lugs break.

I saw a video the other day, one of those big copper, whatever, a crazy wrap on it.

This guy had 12 inch spacers on it and it just pulled the whole bearing apart.

Yeah.

Just popped the bearing out.

There's a customer that came in next door to the parts store where it rears and it's like,

so he's got a tie rod off of a, you know, it's be like a 2001 Chevy truck.

Yeah.

250, right?

Yeah.

He's got the tie rod and spent like a swizzle stick.

And I'm like, there's no snow.

Like, how'd you manage to do that?

Like, because you could see that on a plow truck, like going hard into the bank.

You'll see that.

You know, there's no snow.

What did you do?

All I got are stuck.

Hey, and Canadian, I'll bring my Canadian.

I got her stuck and I gave her the beans.

And I'm like, what the hell were you stuck on?

So anyway, he gets it.

He's like, yeah, well, he was next door and they don't want to warranty my parts.

Okay, cool.

Never saw the truck.

He's just asking me, what do you think might have caused this?

I don't know.

It's a modified truck, ain't it?

Yeah.

Well, something wrong with the modification.

So he comes back in the next week and he's got an axle and a bearing in his hand.

And the splines off the end of the axle are still in the bearing,

but the bearings in his hand and there's a spacer hanging off the end of that.

Oh my God.

Now I see, like, that's put a little tie rod, hasn't got a chance, you know?

He's like, yeah, but I used to work over at the shop.

Like, I know what I'm doing.

I'm like, I think you know what you're doing in terms of like righty, tidy, lefty, loosey.

But I don't think you understand what you've got.

You've got a Frankenstein that is never going to be.

Yeah, it'll never be right.

It'll never be safe.

It'll never drive right.

I mean, there's so many.

I see all these modifications like the guys like put maybe one in four vehicles that are

slammed to the ground with airbags actually drive good because they engineered the suspension

correctly to articulate and not just be all slammed.

So that's what I was going to ask you.

So as a guy that kind of dabbles in that kind of stuff, what's one of the red flags

where you see when you like, when you immediately look at somebody's build,

what do you look for as a builder to another builder?

What do you look for?

Not and don't give me like the door gap answer.

But like, what's the some of the stuff that we might not think about?

Maybe some of the way the suspension is built and, you know, like the welds on them.

They put it together overall.

I mean, I've just seen really weird things, you know, like

like one bolt holding an airbag on.

And I know that's kind of some people do that.

I'm like, no, it doesn't work for me.

Like just weird bracketry, you know, wiring.

I see a lot of nightmare wiring.

You look under this, you know, $150,000 car and it's just looks like spaghetti under there.

I'm like, how does this thing even run?

You know, like, I don't get it.

I have a buddy down in Texas.

He's giving me a hard time.

He's like, he's like, you know, you don't do paint and body.

You know, I was like, yeah, who cares if it's shiny.

If you're wiring doesn't work.

It doesn't go anywhere.

You know, I remember a guy brought me or breaks.

What was it?

Scary breaks.

Oh, gosh, people are weird with that.

I'm so scared to buy an aftermarket kit now because I wouldn't even begin to know

how to make it like actually be sure that it was working the way it was supposed to.

Okay.

You know what I mean?

Like we do all aftermarket willwood breaks.

We buy complete systems.

I was just going to ask you, right?

That you're going to get your master, your pedal.

Yep.

Yeah.

I mean, and then I build a lot of the brake lines myself.

Sure.

But the caliper is made for that.

What I'm thinking that volume coming from that master and that proportioning system.

It's an engineered system.

We're not just throwing random parts together.

You know, you know, disc brakes have different than drum brakes.

And we just take all drum brakes and toss them to it.

They used to scare me when I would see guys and they're like, this is a Camaro.

And or it's a, oh, it's a, it's a, it's a rat rod, you know, and it's got a, I don't know,

Camaro, like four, nine inch in the back end.

Sure.

Well, there's somebody's brick conversion.

We're running a Mustang two up front with some Mustang stuff.

And I'm like, how are you ever getting a bias rate with that?

Like that would just be.

They make adjustable proportioning values.

One thing.

And those are super cheap.

But like I've seen, I've seen like 800 horse drag Camaro's have drum brakes.

Although I'm like, what do you, I'm sure you can stop the first time.

Maybe like that doesn't make sense.

You're lying on the shoot.

Oh, you didn't pack the shoot today.

How are you going to stop?

Man, like throw a block of wood outside.

You know, yeah, it's scary.

So no airbag, no airbags.

Yeah, it has airbags.

It's just like air shocks in the backs.

So you don't have good traction.

But yeah, no, there's a lot, there's a lot of a, there's a lot of good work and

there's a lot of bad work.

And it's just kind of, my job is to make the bad work better or start from scratch too.

So when people bring you somebody else's build and you got to go into it,

is that something you say yes to a lot?

Or is it something that you're like, yeah, I'm not afraid of anything.

I just, it's, it's, it's more of like figure out what it needs, you know,

course of action, you know, what, what are we going to do to make this thing correct?

You know, and it's usually pulling a lot of parts off and just tossing stuff.

Like we get a lot of Broncos that are lifted weird.

They do a lot of lift, but they don't correct the suspension or like the radius arm.

And, you know, if you don't, if you lift a Bronco and didn't correct your radius arm angle,

then it, then it gets crazy bump steer.

They just don't drive right.

Same with jeeps.

Jeeps are the same way, you know.

So it's just correcting a lot of uninformed work.

And I hated that because jeep, oh, death wobble, the jeep thing.

And it's like, you know, listen, any solid axle, you know, whatever is going to suffer that.

I've driven a ton of the lift, not even lifted, but stock 250s with solid axle in the front.

Death wobble.

Oh yeah.

Right.

And it's like, like, look at all the different stuff they tried to do and not to fix it.

Oh yeah.

Many times to change the steering, the tie rods and all that just like,

but, oh, you got a jeep.

It's a death wobble.

How'd you even make it work today?

Like, dude, shut up.

Like, you know, I had a Cherokee that had it bad and it was, it wasn't an overly complicated fix.

Yeah.

Needed a sway bar, sway bar, links and bushings, right?

Oh yeah.

That's what fixed it and a correction on the caster.

That was it.

I wasn't like it was, I had to throw a bunch of parts at the stupid thing.

It had worn out links and bushings for the sway bar.

Sure.

And a caster's out.

Yeah.

I've seen that tie rods, bad tie rods, and do that just all day long.

And then you guys, we had one bad ball joint.

I had a, we had a, so I used to, I worked on a fleet of Ford vans for a hot air balloon company,

right?

So they got all these hot air balloons and all these vans.

And we put a set of Moog ball joints, not talking trash of Moog,

but this thing would not self-correct.

You drive, you tip it to the left and go left and stay left.

And then the auto track would start kicking in and start hitting the brakes and you're like,

turns out that one ball joint we installed.

And they had Ford engineers flying from Detroit.

And that ball joint was just slightly too tight.

So it just wouldn't pivot properly in there.

They put Ford ball joints and it was fine.

But they had master techs looking at this thing and we, you know, I showed them,

here's the ball joint, here's the part number, here's the box.

And they're like, oh, okay, that's not you.

It's the part.

And it's so crazy how many of those vans and those trucks have driven.

Well, now I know what to look for.

Yeah.

And they don't, they don't correct steer.

You know what I mean?

Like, and the person that's driving it is so used to it.

Yeah.

They just don't even complain about it anymore.

They just think that that's the way it's supposed to be.

Yeah.

That's no, when you make a lane change, it's supposed to want to come back to the right

when you're done, right?

Yeah.

You just don't have to be like driving it out of the ditch for making a left hand.

Well, that's it.

That's a drivability understanding how a car is supposed to operate.

You know, I'll get in a vehicle and I'm like, just wow, wow.

I was like, did you know how bad this is?

And they're like, what are you talking about?

I don't even know.

Like it's not supposed, you know, it's supposed to stop forward when you get in the brakes.

It's not supposed to take a left.

Things like that.

Yeah.

What's your two year plan?

I think I'd like to, I'm really happy with this company I'm working with now is

keep building cars, keep building my skill set, which is always a thing.

You know, always be learning.

But that's a good question.

I've been thinking about that.

You know, what's my two and five year plan?

Ever interested in business for yourself?

I've owned my couple of shops.

Going back, yeah.

You know, I don't know if that's for me right now.

I mean, the more I learn about it, the more I feel like I can do it.

But like that's just a level of stress.

I'm not interested in, I'd rather be part of a team and work for somebody that's already

got that part of it down and I'm invaluable to them as they are invaluable to me in that situation.

So that's fair.

I feel like I've found a situation where I can grow with the company and make them exceed.

Sonny, I think that's awesome because I mean, it's like,

you know, sometimes we, the narrative is always coming around to like every good technician out

there should be going into business for himself.

It's the only way you're going to make the money.

And you know, that's a, I think it's a person to person, you know, situation.

Like, you know, if you don't want to be in business just because you're a good technician,

doesn't mean you should be a businessman.

That's right.

And just because you're a good businessman doesn't mean you should own an auto shop.

That's right.

You know, it's, it's, there's so many factors and everybody's different.

Yeah.

So it's kind of just like that, you know, doing the personal work to know what's best for you,

your family and the people around you.

And those are, those are hard conversations to have.

It's a lot, it's a lot of mirror time too, right?

It is.

Look at our own realities of like, how really good are we?

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And then like, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm an okay tech.

I started a business.

Oh crap.

Now I need to get somebody that's better than me.

Yeah.

Shoot.

How do I even know what one of those looks like?

Right, right.

You know,

yeah.

That's where I see this, this, this thing going.

It's, that's tough for a lot of people to have that conversation.

And you know, this, this platform is just about having conversations, man.

That's all it is.

It's great.

Man, as soon as I found it, I mean, I, I binge listened to you for like months, dude.

It's, it's great.

Like every, every, uh,

Thank you.

Every week I'm, I'm absolutely stoked to listen to the conversation.

I just love, I love getting to connect with people that like,

I would have never got to connect with.

Sure.

Yeah.

And yet, you know, you see, you know, we talk about it at the time where it's like,

somebody has a conversation.

It's like they felt all of a sudden, like they had the confidence to,

to make that change that they've been thinking about.

Perspective.

Yeah.

And confidence too.

I mean, and, um, you know, hopefully all of us are heading in the right direction,

even if it's 1% a day, right?

Like Josh, like Josh says, was that Josh this time?

Yeah.

But yeah, I'll steal it from Josh.

Yeah.

I use it now.

I told the boss that he was like, Oh wow, that's great.

You know,

1% a day.

And then he started using it.

So like,

Well, I want to thank you for being on here this morning, man.

Thank you for having me.

I appreciate it.

Yeah.

Thank you for the, for all the support you've shown my podcast and like,

Oh God, it's great.

Yeah.

Oh, I continue to, uh, I will continue to, and I look forward to the things that are

going to happen.

And I feel like I found a friend, my friend.

Thank you, man.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

So, uh, enjoy SEMA.

Yeah.

Everybody that you're walking around here and you're like, Hey,

I know that guy went down and see me.

All right.

I'll see you.

Love you.

We'll talk to you soon.

Yeah, man.

Bye.

Later.

Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on and share this episode,

I'd really appreciate it.

And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning.

As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise.

And I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change.

Thank you to my partners in the ASA group and to the changing the industry podcast.

Remember what I always say in this industry, you get what you pay for.

Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10 millimeter and we'll see you all again next time.

Life as a Tech is Not Always "Sunny" with Sunny Massera

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