Magnus Walker Sells, Porsche Exits China & The Shifting Market

We are here to bring you everything and anything surrounding Porsche.

I'm Mike. I'm Aaron. And this is Peacart Talk.

What's up, episode of Peacart Talk? I'm Mike. And I'm Aaron.

All right. Let's thank our people, bro.

Let's do it. We got Leslie Ann, Chris S, Steve J, Ken S, Richard B, Aaron L, Matt G, Sean H, and Nick F.

Thank you guys so, so much.

Most of those people will be on the drive. We will discuss that later in the show.

But let's go ahead and kick this biatch off.

So Magnus Walker, we all have heard of this guy before.

He is the leader of the Beard Convention.

He's going to be selling off some stuff, apparently, I think in March 26 at RM Sotheby's.

Over 160 items are going to be for sale. That's including vehicles, memorabilia, and whatever else he wants to sell you.

How well car collection?

Yeah, some Nike's probably.

Not hating on the guy. I mean, who knows what's going on with him?

Maybe he just wants to downsize a little bit, maybe move some of this stuff on to somebody else who wants it.

I don't feel like he's been driving his air-cooled as much.

I mean, I always see him posting about the water-cooled stuff more, at least.

What he is posting recently.

Well, he's working on that TBR project, so he's probably got his hands tied.

He's got probably a lot of things cooking and driving is probably a low priority for him.

But driving was his drug, so I guess he beat his addiction and is no longer driving.

Sober.

Went straight cold turkey, man.

Riding the train now, dude.

Taking public transportation.

Go back to riding the Lightning.

I'm out of here, brother.

No, but in all seriousness, I mean, if you're a buyer, I'm sure there's going to be some really cool stuff for sale.

His car is even back when he was driving.

He would let some go here and there, and they always brought more money because it had that Magnus Walker vibe or whatever he had to it.

Signature touch, you mind that?

Yeah, signature touches, you know?

I would see those.

I mean, I'd be interested to see what those turbos go for, because he had some cool stuff.

I mean, even if he didn't own them, they would go for big money.

I think the multiplier, we have all seen it with other, I don't think he carries his heavy weight as some of the other names.

And, you know, like I'm saying, like Seinfeld and all those people, but he does carry a certain bump up because he has owned them and chased those cars down.

And to be fair, and this isn't to take anything away from Magnus, he chased down good cars too.

Even if his name isn't associated with them, they're cool cars.

They all have cool stories behind them.

They're not just cool because Magnus owns them, and if he didn't own them, they would be junk.

So I think that also helps.

So the core of those cars are going to be very expensive in any ways, and then you put the Magnus factor on it.

It's probably a 2X maybe.

So like, let's say a car would probably normally sell for 2 and some change.

Might sell for close to 4 because he owns it.

So I think he has an opportunity to, I mean, I'm sure anybody's reason for selling stuff is to clean up.

He doesn't want to sell them to give them.

He can't drive everything at once?

Yeah, he doesn't want to give them away.

So if he's going to make money, why not, right?

So I'm sure they will do well.

I can't imagine them not doing well.

I mean, 160 items is a lot.

I don't think that...

I don't know if they're going to run the memorabilia.

Obviously, I think they're all on a lot together, but you never know.

I don't know how that's planning to go.

I just saw that it was going to go out on March 26.

We all know what happens in March 26.

If you don't know, the Amelia happens then.

But I don't think RM is part of the Amelia anymore, right?

So then it's going to be a Moda.

Maybe Moda Miami.

Yeah.

Which is his style.

But that always happens also now.

That's their month.

So Moda Miami.

So RM's there.

So that'll probably happen in Miami.

And I'm sure Zweck might display some of his cars prior to it

or hold some of them because that's a lot of stuff.

Good relationship.

Yeah, there are a lot of cars there.

Yeah, that's a lot of stuff.

No word on how many vehicles it's going to be.

Just basically the teaser is there right now.

Hey, this is how many items are happening.

There's no, I guess, breakdown yet.

I mean, I'm sure that's coming.

They're building that out, I'm sure.

Individual dreads.

Part of his beard.

Old boots.

Old pants.

I mean, he probably has a bunch of fashion stuff from Syria.

It depends on how big of a Magnus Val you might, you would be.

Still like, what do you let's go?

It could be some stuff from the past.

Yeah, I don't think his goal was always to like maybe kind of like,

he always wanted to like, I guess he's done the things that he's wanted to do.

And not saying that he's out of the game, but he made it.

I just watched a 60 second clip that he posted on his own Instagram about this

whole situation and it made it sound like he's at a different place in his life

right now where it's this is less important to him than it used to be.

So I think that's why some of this stuff's going to go and no knock on him.

I mean, Seinfeld's liquidated and then reallocated stuff all the time.

Like he's done that throughout his life.

So Seinfeld has been a collector for decades and he feels like his collection

gets too big and then he liquidates and then he regrets it and then he goes

and chases other things down that he didn't used to have or hadn't had or was

interested in. So I'm sure Magnus will make room and, you know,

inflate his bank account and then I'm sure there'll be stuff out there that

maybe he always kind of wanted and he'll go get, you know,

because he's moved some cars around and, you know, he hasn't necessarily said

no one usually does when they go and say what their next move is.

Who knows, he might make four or five million dollars and might go buy a,

hey, I always wanted a 959. I'm going to go buy a 959 now and I always wanted,

you know, whatever this is and goes and buys, maybe he'll go buy some really,

you know, trick one-off stuff that he's always wanted, you know,

maybe he'll go buy a 930 Avalanche or something wild like that.

You know, he seems like that kind of guy.

Either way, we're putting the info out there because we know we do have some

listeners that listen, that have the means that, and he's going to sell some

really cool 930 Turbo. So if you're 930 Turbo hunting and you have the means,

I'm sure one of them, I don't know if, I would say of all the ones,

if he does sell it, he might not sell this car, but that ice cream metallic one.

That's what I was going to say, that one.

The factory tartan in it too. Oh my God, that's a special car.

But you know, also to that Robert Redford car, like the first 930,

like it has documentation tracing that car, that it was like the first 930 in the U.S.

And it, like, I think Robert Redford had a hold on it,

but never took delivery of the car.

And I think they have like some documentation to prove that.

And then Magnus was a caretaker for it.

I think that car, that he sells that car too, that car is going to be big money.

Yeah, for sure.

Especially because it's like the first 930.

So that's going to, I mean, he has some stuff, man, some like really special stuff.

So it really, I guess the sky's the limit for him.

Like if he's shooting for a dollar amount, he knows what certain cars will probably bring.

Yeah.

So do you think he put the reserves on everything?

Oh, I'm sure they're, it'll probably all surpass because I think he's done well on everything.

His version of paying up and like what the current market version of paying up.

Because he started blocking way, way early.

Yeah.

And he still even got into a lot of those 930 turbos like early, like even pre-COVID.

He wouldn't have known that it was early, but yeah.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying, but I'm saying like, I'm talking about 15, 16, where they were still expensive,

but not out of this world expensive.

But he's probably going to put, get out of this world money on him, which, which is cool.

I guess.

I mean, I don't know.

It'll be interesting to see.

I'm sure obviously some, some cars that will never leave like that.

His car that's all over, like it was at 277.

That car will probably remain.

It'll be interesting to see if he cuts loose that 964 study he did.

Old Rod.

Yeah.

Or if he'll, or if he'll keep that one, it'll be interesting.

But yeah, I would, we'll do another podcast when, when the list comes out, because I'm sure that in itself can be it's an old podcast, because if there's a handful of good cars in there.

We can dive into why, why is it more special or what it means.

What we think they'll go for.

But I mean, he's got a lot of stuff that he never even advertised.

He's got a handful of 914s.

He's got like 928s.

He's got nine to four turbo.

A really special car.

I don't think he'll let that one go because I think there was one of them.

I saw a show.

He's got like this nine for nine to four turbo that's got a like an Iraq body factory body kit on.

It's like a special like race car.

Essentially, I think there's like 11 of them in the world.

So yeah, I don't think that one's going to go anywhere.

And who knows which turbos will go.

I those the turbos we brought up might not even he might like those still and just be like, I'm not cutting red of the first one.

You know, the Robert Redford car and I'm not cutting red of the ice green car, but all the other ones can go.

I think the Minerva blue car has been gone for a long time, although like it seems like he's.

It looks like he has it, but I don't I think that car sold a while ago.

I think that car sold a several years ago.

I think he's got a black turbo also.

I mean, he's got GT three.

I'd like to buy that.

I mean, it's going to be asinine money, even though he didn't pay asinine money for it, but he's got 996 GT two that has high miles on it.

Yeah, a lot of miles.

And that would be, oh my God, that would be the perfect car for a driver.

Yeah, like probably why he bought it, right?

But also price point wise, but I'm sure because it's Magnus and it's a GT two and they've gone up.

I'm sure it's going to be even high miles is going to be.

And I when I say high miles, I'm talking about like 80 something thousand.

Yeah, that was 80 or over 100.

Yeah, it's in that range, you know, give or take.

So but I'm sure that car is still going to bring heavy money, probably three with a three in front of it.

And the problem with that is that's another bar, whether or not it's Magnus is involved or not.

That's another, you know, price point on those cars.

Yeah.

And on the piggyback onto the him selling cars, not that anyone gives a crap that what YouTubers are doing or whatever.

I guess he would kind of be a YouTube dabbler.

I wouldn't say he's like, he's not a full on YouTube guy, even though he's been on YouTube and has popular videos on YouTube.

But Vinnie then try to sold his three RS.

I just want to watch the day.

So I mean, is this a trend or people starting to unload some of these cars because not because they're worried about what they're going to do on the backside.

But maybe they feel like right now is a high watermark because a lot of these cars are really expensive right now.

And maybe they're just kind of like, hey, they'll probably still go up.

But I think if they're not, if you look at a trending chart or a stock chart, they're probably going back to their one to 3% as opposed to where they were moving at 10% per year or whatever they were.

And I think maybe if you're paying attention to those trends, maybe people are starting at least these people where they want to move on to something new to say, hey, let me get all this money out of it and move on to another project.

I know that's what Vinnie's doing.

That is fun because that's what he's starting his car to say.

It also made sense.

Some of the things he spoke to was that, like we said, Magnus got in early.

Some people got good deals on stuff and the pricing's gone to collector grade pricing.

Whether or not it's a collector's car, it's not.

It's a driver's car.

But now that price looms over your head like, all right.

Yeah.

But so now you get this.

But if I wreck it, it's worth nothing.

Yeah.

I think the latter is more in the important part of that, like the point of the potential damage to the asset because the asset has gotten so great yet you like to drive it.

So then now you're almost kind of mentally crippled by that asset because you're like, all right, I'm driving a three, $400,000 car.

I'm not.

I don't ball like that.

And I bought that car way when I paid, let's just say like 180.

Yeah.

And now it's worth, let's just say 360 or 350.

And he's kind of like, it's doubled its money and I've had it for four years.

So, you know, unless you're rolling in money, like that's a big risk.

My insurance costs go up too because now you have to continue to shop your insurance every time.

Because you want to make sure the payouts right on it.

So yeah, I get that feeling on them.

I'm like, I'm not hating on them.

We have friends in those situations where they have really valuable cars and then they put themselves in situations like I love owning it, but then I'm obviously not going to rally the car.

So it's just kind of for me, you know, and then it turns into like, you know, where our evil side is at.

Why do you even have the car?

If you're not going to drive it, why do you own it?

Now you're a collector and that's fine.

And but he was in a no man like speaking of Vinnie specifically, he was kind of in a no man's land because the car at 30,000 miles on it.

It's not a collector car really.

But the one guy called that high miles is like 37,000 miles.

Oh, yeah.

But I mean, that's not that's not wrong, though, because like a for for 997.23 RS, 37,000 miles is a lot.

Because a lot even during that time, like a lot of those cars have pretty low miles.

Like I would say I would say most of them have like sub 10, 10,000 or less.

If they're between 10 and 15, I think there's a big price delta even and then like above that is even more.

But that's why he got a smoking deal on it because it had miles on it.

Again, we've we've played the what if game in the fantasy game long, long time ago where I talked about where I was like, man, I would love to find like a 75,000 mile or 90,000 mile pumpkin that's been looked after properly, not deferred maintenance.

I showed and be able to go and be like, dude, it has 100,000 miles and then be able to drive it.

But I don't want to pay whatever that person who owns that car.

They probably think they're like, well, yeah, I want 250 for us.

Like, dude, this is 100,000 miles.

It's not 250.

Like this car is like maybe 130 tops.

But James on some some game.

He was like, well, these are the six months of us.

Like they're only this expensive here.

Oh, yeah.

It's expensive everywhere as long as you're willing to wait.

Yeah, it's true.

Yeah, we and you and I have known that for a while.

Like we looked at those a while ago and it's like, man, we know people in Europe.

I mean, store it.

You start doing like the man, Matthew, like, okay, if I pay for storage over there and I bought it there.

And by the time I get there, I'm like, I'll show you what it cost.

And I looked it up with tariffs and it's like, it's still still better, right?

Still better by lots of money.

Yeah.

And who knows by the time that car is legal, what the tariff situation will be.

It might be.

No, nothing.

Yeah, it might be.

Back to back to zero.

I mean, I mean, Danny's Danny's where things are at.

That's that's the thing.

Like I just saw those.

I don't know if you saw it.

Like there was some crazy color nine and six nine and six turbos on like white interior

and red exterior and yeah, like bright purple and pale yellow.

All Japanese.

Yeah.

I saw.

Hunting outside of this country would benefit you.

I saw nine, nine, six turbo and Wimbledon green in Japan manual with that nephrotite

green interior like matching.

I'm like, it's kind of in your face, but it's kind of badass too, because I think

cars old enough now where you could pull that.

It's a classic.

So you could be like, well, it's old school.

Yeah.

But yeah, I think there's a lot of people move and but I think all of the people that

are moving cars, they're moving them all for different reasons.

I don't think it's a market trend.

No, I think they're just that just a lot of money.

Yeah.

For personal reasons.

I think just staring in the face going, yeah, it wasn't that expensive to me when

I first got it and I like it and I enjoyed it.

Did I get $100,000 profit enjoyment?

Yeah.

All right.

Well, yeah.

I mean, what's next?

Especially if you have a car that it's really, really increased, right?

So Magnus is in that category where he's gotten.

Okay.

Hey, let's say he even paid up for that ice cream and say he paid $134,000.

Let's just say he did that.

Which would have been crazy numbers at that time.

That car probably will easily bring three and some change.

So I mean, he's going to make a couple hundred thousand dollars on just that one car if he

sells that car.

And then you say he sells five cars.

So let's say he makes 200 per car.

Dude, he just made a million dollar profit by selling five cars.

And that's just the profit.

That's not even what total number is.

Like he's recouping what he got put into it and he's making a million on top.

So when you start looking at it in those kinds of terms, it's kind of like, that's kind of

nothing goes and takes some of that money and goes by the CGT and just rips that around.

That'd be some respect.

I mean, he's secret.

He tries to give the like perception that he ain't fancy, but he's secret fancy.

Like he looks derelict on the outside, but he likes fancy things.

There's no doubt about that.

So anything's possible.

He seems like more of kind of where he goes and hunts down like some flat bowels, some

like original, like maybe some like roofs, you know, like some of those like OG roof cars,

maybe something like that.

Like he seems more in that realm, but you never know.

You might go by CGT.

But yeah, I think everybody's just always kind of, you'd be foolish not to, right?

To sit there and look at your fleet to say, I don't really drive that car.

I don't really drive that car.

It's like, I can make like 200 grand on that car.

Okay.

I can make like, if those numbers are starting to make, make that kind of sense.

Can't really hate on like, think about all those guys that bought like Diablos for under

$100,000.

They all are coming out of the woodwork and selling over four or five, 600,000.

Like how could you not?

How could you not?

If you paid 80 grand for that car, how could you not sell it for $500,000?

That's just bad business.

You keep driving it.

But the one caveat to that though, it's the same thing with like, if you live in a great

area, you have a great house and your house is up.

I mean, you're literally just selling your house just to buy another house in the same

area.

Unless you take your money and leave and that in this situation would be take your money

and like leave Porsche and go buy another brand.

Then it makes sense because now you have other cars outside of Porsche.

Maybe if you wanted that and you have the profitability, but if you stay within Porsche,

you're just reallocating the funds to something else.

And now there's nothing wrong with that.

Like you might just upgrade and condense your fleet.

Like you could go from 10, let's just say 200 something thousand dollar cars and go buy

three blue chip cars with that money and go from 10 to three, which is more manageable

and those three are more and they're more valuable and maybe the ceilings higher on those

three.

So that makes sense.

I mean, he's going to do this, but if he was to go to a different brand, what vintage

brand is going to be not expensive?

Well, there isn't a ton, you know, that's worth driving.

Well, he's definitely, you know, for a fact, since he's, you know, he's helped design that

TVR wild super cat or whatever they're calling that thing, you know, he's going to have one

of those.

Yeah.

So that's going to happen.

And who knows?

Maybe he's maybe he's making an investor stake.

He's taking some of this money is going to be an investor in it.

Maybe.

Who knows?

Maybe they maybe there's a certain amount of allocation of fundings that they want for

whatever percentage.

If he wants a portion of that company to set to say, hey, we need, we need $2 million from

you or $3 million from you to have 10% or 15% or whatever that number is.

And maybe that's what he wants to do because he sees vision for that car.

You know, essentially it is a cool car, you know, and I don't know if you've heard it

run.

It sounds amazing at Goodwood.

Like, I mean, it's a V12 dude.

Like, and it's not like the lazy Jag V12.

It's super charged and it's like higher compression.

It's rowdy and it looks great.

I mean, it's, it's their version, TBR's version, basically of a Jag V12 coupe reimagined.

So that's cool.

And that car could definitely, especially coming out of England and TBR's in England,

like I could see that car doing very, very well.

Yeah.

And he's better.

So that, that's all that is for him to probably like, oh, hey, to be part of a British brand.

Yeah.

And make that, make that a reimagined, you know, the market didn't think they need it.

No one really asked for it, but it's happening.

Right.

So that thing can really grow some legs.

I think there's a lot of people excited about it.

And who knows, the sky's the limit.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah.

It's pretty badass.

Yeah.

But I anyways, I don't think the sky's falling if anyone's listening.

I don't think that's why these guys are selling.

I think they're all selling for their own individual reasons.

And there's enough money to be made there where it makes sense for them to say, hey,

I'm not just making a couple hundred grand.

Like Magnus stands to probably make a couple million here, like unloading all this, you

know, obviously Ventrata made a couple hundred.

Maybe, maybe not even that much, maybe like 150, but still that's still, that's life-changing

money because he's getting his 180 back and the 150.

He drove for free.

Yeah.

And he's like, has a business endeavor that he wants to, you know, he's a young guy.

So he's looking at his financial well-being for the rest of his life.

He's already got content out of it and all that.

It's not like he didn't get to.

So he's funding a business, you know, for himself.

So that makes, I'm all for that.

He's investing in himself.

That's what you should do.

All right.

So Farron, October 13th through the 16th.

Yep.

Tapaco Lodge.

Fearing is now, registration's open.

Probably sold out, but if not get on the waiting list.

There will be a waiting list.

It's already, should be on the website up under the foreign tab.

Yeah.

And no joke.

And some people think, you know, we BS.

Actually, we're transparently mean a lot of times about a lot of things.

We have had people that get on that waiting list and have come to the rally.

Like two of them last year because they missed out and it was sold out and they were on the

waiting list and we reached out to them and they were like, Hey man, I just thought I

was just permanent purgatory BS waiting list and they were paid up and they ended up at

the rally.

So if you, if you miss out and the window closes and it sells out, do get on the waiting

list because there are people that drop out because things do happen because October

is a ways away.

However, don't be that person.

It's like, well, I can't plan that far out.

Get in there, reserve your stuff, put your money down.

Make sure that you're in there because waiting too long is not the answer on that because

you will be on the waiting list then.

Well, that I want to give you dates that far out to plan.

I mean, just for that, because we don't like having events where they're on last minute

mode.

Yeah, we've been victim of that many, many times.

So that's, that's, that's another reason why we plan so far out and because we got to reach

out and we got to lock in stuff because just like any other place, there's, if you don't

know and you've never been, I hope you come this year so you can see it.

Tapaco is jamming all the time.

They're always booked out.

They're always almost sold out all the time.

So the fact that we have a good rapport with them and we can get in there and get our dates

and they work with us and they cater, like there's a lot of moving parts in the background.

It's not like, oh, you just need a place to stay.

They're feeding us.

They're feeding us breakfast.

They, we have like basically our own personal waiter, waitress.

We have like the staff manager that's always there.

If we need something, if there's anything odd that we need, sometimes they can make it

happen.

I've done that several times, cakes, birthday celebrations, like it's been the same thing

with the bar.

Yeah.

They're super accommodating.

So that's another reason why we plan so far out.

But yeah, if you're not a member, I don't know why you're not a member.

If you're listening to the show and you're not a member and you're not going to come

on the drive, I get it.

But if you are going to come on the drive or have any interest in ever going on that

drive, you need to become a member just so you have the opportunity to come.

Like I said before, bring your spouse, bring your significant other.

We encourage that.

There's a lot of camaraderie there.

Like your partner is going to have other partners to hang out with.

It's not just a boy's trip.

Yeah.

It's definitely, it's a fan.

You say it all the time.

I say it all the time.

It's a family trip.

Like we're all family.

We're all friends.

So definitely, and it's good.

It's almost, I hate using this term, but it's just kind of like a reunion, family

reunion type of situation where, and then you get to have a lot of fun too.

It's not like, oh, we're going to get drunk and fight situation like at a barbecue

when people it's like, oh man, cousin Danny's here with his grilled cheese

sandwiches again.

But no, it's like everybody's out love.

Everybody's like, hey, you know, as much as driving as you want or as little

driving as you want, as much hanging out as you want or little thing.

And it's all, it's, it's all there for you.

So it's not obligated.

And I'll just close with, if you got an air cooled and you don't have a water

cooled car, you could still come.

It's not just a horsepower rally.

It's not one of those like, we're just going to blow the doors off everybody.

There's pace to it.

There's groups who can run in that you're going to feel safe.

Everybody, it comes to this thing.

It's never been before says, man, I wish I would have come before.

You don't know what you don't know.

And everybody who is repeating customers and keeps coming back is a

testament of how funded it actually is.

And it keeps evolving too.

We got new restaurants this year and possibly

let me make it a trek out of Georgia.

We'll say like way out there might do some, some brook trout fishing with

our teeth, you know, and whoever can snatch them out.

Just the best wins like $1,000 prize or something.

I don't know who knows.

Waiters in the front.

Yeah.

Megan, it happened, you know.

So Porsche is set to close 30% of its dealer network in China.

That's a big number, like large number.

I wonder what they're, I mean, I see numbers.

I didn't really know what, but that's still 30% of anything is a good.

That's a healthy amount.

Yeah.

I mean, it's almost a full third.

Yeah, you are right.

My math served me right.

33.3333.

It's pretty close.

But and that, and why that's happening?

I think we've talked about it enough on the show, but it makes sense.

Obviously that just shows you, even if that number, let's just say, I don't know,

there's 20 dealers in all of China.

I mean, 30% of that's still a strong number that they're closing.

I mean, I can't remember that,

not that we've been around long enough to see this,

the Doomsday stuff with Porsche, but.

I don't remember hearing a U.S. dealer close.

Ever.

Ever, yeah, that's true.

Like, that was gonna be my point.

I feel like that would make news.

A lot of news.

Yeah.

So, their dealer network relationship there

must be a lot different than it is here.

Like, it must be one of those situations

where they're just kind of like, hey,

I don't actually, I can't even speculate

on how it would work there.

It would have to be numbers.

They just didn't, they weren't making numbers.

That was the only thing that would make sense.

But I'm just saying, like, man, can you imagine, like?

I mean.

Yeah, what probably happened is they bet on the EV market,

which is what we talked about,

and the bigger specialty vehicles.

And once it pulled back,

and they thought the EV market was there in China,

just even with the billion plus people in the country,

it's just not.

That just shows you though, right there, where?

They're not in the market.

You can still be on the short end of the stick

because at the end of the day,

these dealerships are not producing the cars,

and they have no say in what's getting produced

in the direction of the company.

So they're being basically delivered a product,

and then they're the distributing facility for it

to try to push that product.

So imagine how frustrating if you were a dealer owner

in that situation, and it's like,

you were giving me a product that wasn't selling,

and now I'm bankrupt, and the dealership's bankrupt

because of your error.

That would be, that would be so devastating.

Yeah, we don't know what their allocations are like.

Maybe they weren't even getting any cool things.

Yeah, maybe, I don't know.

And as far as we know,

we could be making this a bigger thing than anything.

This could be a chaos in the mall for all we know, right?

Like the guy with the, hey, you want Spray Cologne?

You want Cologne?

Hey, you want Porsche?

Come on, go for a drive.

Come on, like it could be that.

It could be, but it probably isn't.

I mean, obviously I'm exaggerating,

but it could be a place in the mall like a Tesla.

Like that could be, that's part of their dealer network.

It could be also that they just didn't,

a lot of those dealers just didn't want to go up

to whatever new gen store it was,

like the build out doesn't make sense.

We also don't know.

I mean, this rollout was,

it made it seem like because of lack of sales,

and it was.

That would make the most sense.

Centralized around the EV decline.

There's what it really was like.

Well, I mean.

The meat of the article was about.

I mean, I feel like that was the biggest bitch

for them was like.

Yeah.

Well, that was their market where they were literally,

and then their luxury fleet, right?

Like the Panamera L, I guess.

I mean, it's not called that,

but I mean, that's what the value calls it, right?

The long boy.

Oh, you want a long boy?

But yeah, it probably, I would say,

I would be, if they're going back to what I was saying,

if these are like hardened facilities,

like we know in the U.S. where they're like brick-and-mortar.

And if they're dumping on those, that would be devastating.

But if these are, I feel less bad.

If it's like, you know, we've all been to the mall,

and we've seen like Tesla has a store at the mall,

and you can actually order a Tesla there

if you really wanted to do that.

Well, you have to be,

what was I hearing about that?

Not that this is another tangent, they can't.

You have to order, you can't really order

that they can lead you to a dealer.

They can't sell cars there, just like a product thing.

It's something weird.

I thought it was like something like where you could,

they could help, you could build it,

and then they would save it because it's all online.

And then basically like, then you could,

because all they're purchasing is online.

It's like meaning Tesla, like so then you would go home,

and basically, they would help you spec it, I guess.

They just didn't even sell it.

Yeah, and then they would save it,

and then you would go home and click buy, essentially.

And then go to the dealer and finish this.

Maybe it's something similar to that in China.

I don't know, China.

Yeah.

But yeah, so that's happening.

And who knows what like tariffs back and forth

actually probably cause a little bit of riff there too.

And also for them, like the fact that they're meaning they,

Porsche is unwinding a lot of their EV situation anyways.

So maybe if that's all they were selling were EVs.

So maybe they don't have a product to sell, right?

At all.

Yeah, but if they buy that.

Because it was like, look, we're not,

we're not even gonna send you cars,

so there's no sense in you actually existing.

Yeah, your allocation is EV.

But you wonder what kind of kickback that is

because they obviously, they had to pay to become a dealer.

You don't just become a dealer by just matter of fact.

They have to have them doored and stuff, so.

And funds and all that other stuff, right?

All right.

So a lot of things have been happening

as far as like auction sales,

and I'm talking about not like online auction,

I'm talking about in-person auction.

And to that kind of stand out that I think a lot of people,

if you're listening to this,

even if you're not into those cars,

you already know that they exist

cause they've spent around forever,

like bear Jackson and make them auctions.

I think the tide is turning in there.

And what I mean by that is,

either one or two things are happening.

Either A, the baby boomers are no longer going

to those auctions and looking for the 57 Bell Air

with an LS7 in it and all that stuff

and paying $500,000 for it.

Because there has been a lot of really high-end

like Ferrari and Porsche sales happening at these auctions

that didn't used to happen.

Like 993, I'm talking about classics.

I'm not talking about new stuff.

I'm talking about like 993 Turbo S's.

Like there's hardly any of them.

Just sold at Bear Jackson for a crazy amount of money.

You know, same auction, 360 challenge Tradales,

like 812 super fast, like specialty cars,

like Pista's and stuff like that.

Scuds.

Well, do you think the auction houses

are also targeting these people?

I mean, cause they, I know they go after collectors

and they need to get their numbers up too, right?

Well, see, here's another thing too,

I always kind of watch these

and have them in the background when they're live

or at least pay attention to what runs

and what doesn't sell and all and have been for years.

So the last, I would say even just more recently,

I mean, the last decade or so, like every once in a while,

like there'll be somebody that runs a car

like that through there.

I don't know if they've talked into it

or Bear Jackson promises them like it's gonna do well

or make them promises it's gonna do well.

And a lot of times they don't even hit reserve,

like they just, the bid goes on, you know, that kind of stuff.

But because of that,

there hasn't ever really been a lot of cars

because people see that, okay,

so that's what that car did.

That's not the audience for that car.

You and I have talked about this before.

Always.

RM.

You know, RM, you know, all of those.

And then the Concord events,

like wherever those are, what's the other bottoms?

Yeah, bottoms, yeah.

So that's usually the place for those cars, right?

So, but I'm seeing a trend

where these cars are selling now at Barrett and at Meekum

and they're not just selling,

like they're selling for like big money.

So they're starting to bring the money.

So like I was saying earlier when I led with this,

one or two things is happening,

whether either the younger generation that has money

is starting to attend those auctions

and Meekum and Barrett know that.

So now they're starting to put that in their inventory

and it's because they're selling

or the baby boomers are changing their tune

and they're going for more of those European classics now.

So I don't know what it is yet,

but the bottom line is, is they are selling now there

and they're at a place where they didn't used to do well

at all and now they're doing well.

So that's tying into, you know, the beginning of the show

and at the backside of the show,

it's tying into saying the market is still strong

and if anything, it's even stronger.

Yeah, especially with those two,

I mean, those are powerhouses for being auction houses.

Yeah, and monster amount of inventory

it runs through there, right?

Yeah. Like thousands and thousands

of pieces run through there.

Yeah, every year.

So that's showing you two things.

Both of those auction houses are paying attention

because they're running those cars through there

and the audience is paying attention too, because...

Well, they're trying to get deals.

That's what I would imagine

that if you're seeing starting like you,

starting to see those cars go through there,

they may not be going for deals,

but you would hope at least I would go

and load that mindset on any of those.

Yeah, that you might be able to steal one.

Might be able to grab one because I'm not at a place

that's going to be paying attention

or know what's going on.

But I think that's what happened 10 years ago.

I think people like us were going there

in occasional 993 or 964 turbo or something like that.

They're like, this is the only reason why I'm here.

It's like lot number 11, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

And it's the only Porsche there and they're there.

And then like this is all they're going to bid.

And that's why that car doesn't meet

because there's not enough players in the room for that car.

And then that car caps out at 120

when the reserve was like two and some change on it.

So a lot of those cars never met reserve,

but there was one or two players in that car,

in that room who were hoping to steal that car,

but they were protected by the reserve, so it didn't matter.

So I think now they're all surpassing the reserve clearly

because they're selling.

And I'm not like, I didn't see a single one of these

was a deal.

I'm talking about like millions on some of these

where it's like, it was, I mean,

who knows what the hell the reserve was,

but it was well past it.

I think that there was a bunch lot of Ferraris.

I don't have them all because they're obviously Ferraris.

They didn't write them all down,

but I think there was like seven or eight of them

and all of them sold, every single one of them.

And they were all special and they were for big money.

Interesting.

Well, I mean, that doesn't help the classic market at all.

That 993 Turbo S sold for 600,000.

Well, that's a big jump.

That's the last one I saw went for 450 or something like that.

600.

Macaulay, was it black?

Black.

Yeah, probably the same one.

Might have been, but it sold for 600.

Yeah.

And then they're not like other like online sites,

like with the big on that, like whatever their percentage is,

it's like, man, that's close to seven.

Good on the sales team.

Yeah, but that's just going to show you

that even those places where these classic European cars

didn't play well because those were American markets.

And, you know, you're right because it occasionally,

you know, when I'm in and out of a nap or something

and I'm watching something like Amicom,

this is, and I'm talking not now, current,

I'm talking like pre COVID, like 18, 17,

you'd see like, I don't know, an SL 65.

I'm not talking about the 55, like the V 12 one,

twin turbo, super nice car.

I think retailed for like two and some change.

Super low miles, probably because it's in Arizona

and some, you know, rich guy bought it for his wife

and you know, it's got like all the 5,000 miles on it.

Like car doesn't even make like $30,000 reserve.

It's like, man, bed goes on, keeping it moving.

I mean, and this, that car was only a few, few years old.

So I mean, that was a hundred something thousand dollar car,

even if you were just selling at the dealership.

Yeah, for sure.

Even used and it wasn't even surpassing 50 grand

because it's just the audience was just not there.

They're just like, dude, that's a country club car.

I'm not buying that.

You know, where's the Elko with the, the 454

and the cams and all that, you know, that's,

that was that audience and maybe that's tapering.

Maybe they're changing their tune.

I think the sellers are tapering, merge is changing.

I don't think, I don't think boomers

are changing to European stuff.

I just think it's just, we've, we've said it

in the same thing we're saying with the concours.

Yeah.

The old stuff is just moving out.

I think we're seeing late 30s to early 60s,

like year olds in that room and those people want

European like exotics or fast cars now.

They're not chasing their granddad's C10 Chevy.

They're not chasing those cars.

It would make sense because if you align that group

with, you know, what they were chasing is probably 30

or 40 years old car, 30 or 40 year old cars

and that's what we're at again.

Yeah.

So like that's the sweet, that's the golden number

between if the car's 20 to basically 40 years old,

that's where the prime money's chasing that car.

It's the age demographic that's dialed into that.

And you can just go through time almost.

Like if you go back to the Duesenberg stuff,

even when those cars were probably at auction

in the 70s or 80s, that those cars probably bought money.

Those, that car, to your point, was in that 20

to 40 year old window of like how old that car was

compared to where they were buying them.

And all those muscle cars and everything else

that was probably popping up around there

were also just not selling a bad car.

Yeah, because they were brand new.

And they're like, I can go to the dealership

and buy a TA Challenger.

We're like, why would I buy one at auction?

Yeah.

You know, even if those existed back then,

probably did and whatever.

But yeah, it's, that's pretty much the run, right?

Like that's the, that's the-

What I wonder now is, if that's happening at those,

when something pops up at an RM or something like that,

is it about to go three, four X?

Or are you gonna have to bring something like ultra?

Yeah.

Ultra special for it to even make reserve?

I don't know.

It would be interesting to see.

Well, no.

They always have like special stuff at that.

Like I feel like since they've always established

and that was like their estuary essentially,

meaning like RMs, bottoms, like those specialty,

like Christie's where they always had

those specialty cars anyways.

I think that's always been their bread and butter.

So I don't think anything changes for them.

I mean, you know, those types of places where like

a Ferrari 250 GTO sells for 40, 50, 60, 100 million,

those cars sell at those auctions for that.

Those are those kinds of cars.

Like, but those auction houses have always

backed those cars.

And like everybody's always known

that's where you go for those kinds of cars.

Well, I'd ever break through at Mecom.

I don't think so because those cars are so rare.

Like those crowds of people,

I don't see them spending a hundred million dollars

on a Ferrari 250 GTO.

Like why would you run that car through there?

That doesn't make any sense.

I mean, I wonder if, I mean, Seinfeld put some of this stuff

through, was it Mecom?

Yeah, but we don't know what's happening in the back office.

Like because usually how a lot of those places work

is seller and buyer pay fees.

They might offer Seinfeld just to move his fleet,

just to be able to save a Seinfeld.

They're like, hey, you don't have to pay any fees

on any of your cars that sell.

Only the buyer's gonna pay fees.

So like he meaning like to encourage him

to be the seller.

And that could have happened with these cars too.

That might be how they're getting people in the door.

They might be saying, hey, you have a special car.

That's not just some, oh, it's not a 996 Turbo.

It's like, oh, it's a 993 Turbo S

and it has like 10,000 miles on it.

Yeah, you don't have to pay fees,

but we wanna run your car that bad,

almost like inviting people to come

and display your car on a concourse,

because it's so rare that they don't make you pay.

They're like, hey, we're gonna ship your car here.

We'll curate your car.

We just want it to be here so bad.

And maybe that's how they're getting people in there.

And they're just making the buyer pay the fee

instead of hitting them both up.

To close, this is just hypothetical.

This isn't even written,

but I'm interested to see this

or what to hear your thoughts, I should say.

Not see this.

What do you think's gonna happen

to all those pro touring, remember?

Like, cause that was so popular.

That wasn't that long ago.

Well, it doesn't seem like it was that long ago,

but it's 15 years, not 15, it was 10.

2015, those cars were bringing big money,

like hundreds of thousands of dollars.

We're talking about like, 68 Camaro with a tubbed rear end

that's got 700 horsepower, LSX motor,

all this trick stuff done to it,

totally restored and hot rotted,

Resto mod, I guess is the term they were using.

That car would sell for three, four, $500,000.

I mean, what do you think like, agreed value,

like if you were to assess that car now,

what do you think that cars were?

Half that maybe?

Probably half that, and that's what I was thinking too,

cause some of those, like, I don't know if it was just,

my dad and I got on the station.

And it was just 10 years ago and you lost half.

But when you watch this,

I'm like, well, just restore it, got this,

and it goes for 150.

And you know that they have a hundred

in that restoration alone or more.

Also like, who's maintaining these things?

Yeah, that's a good point.

Who's building these things anymore too?

I bet a lot of shops have closed

because they're for a while.

Remember even on regular TV,

before there was apps and all that,

like Discovery Channel were falling around

these places that were building these cars.

There's like 30 shows and there's not even,

they've changed from just like,

even like, Ass Monkey was giant, obviously.

People are just not watching that crap anymore.

And probably like three other shows I can think of

that are doing like crazy cars on Arizona,

stuff like that.

And I'm sure, I'm sure there's still a,

just like, yeah, I'm sure like anything,

there's still a bunch of hardcore enthusiasts

that are in that,

but I'm talking about the frequent flyers

that had money.

Who knows, they sold their business

or, you know, they were a CEO for a really long time.

They're going for it.

They had millions of dollars.

Yeah, and they were like, you know,

they went and bought one of those

and they kind of like, yeah, it's kind of cool.

You know, like $300,000 Camaro now.

And they're like, got rid of it and sold it

took $150,000 loss on it or whatever it was.

And you just wonder what the next 10 years brings on that.

Are those cars going to be sub 100 again?

And are they going to have like,

because at the end of the day, it's still a lot of work.

It's still a lot of craftsmanship

and it's still a powerful car.

Do you think that it has a resurgence again someday?

Not at the strong number that it was at

because they were, when anything's hot,

obviously the number is strong,

but you almost wonder if there's going to be a pocket

it sees value in that and be like,

man, you've got the receipts for this thing.

It was a $400,000 bill and I paid $120 for it.

No, I don't think for those cars anymore.

I think there will be for,

I think there's another use case for saying

there's a market for cars like that, but not that,

not those versions anymore.

I think the Camaro's and I will sell this.

I will buy a pro touring car for like a hundred

and some change like that's like done up.

But I mean, obviously it would just be for you.

Like what could you do with it?

I wouldn't go to those, you know.

Doing a power door.

Like Biff's Burgers on Thursday night

where everybody's out, it's like, come on baby,

let's do the twist and you got the crying child on the car

and you got your placards out front.

I don't think, I think the generation

that would maybe buy those cars

aren't going to go do those things.

I think they would have a bunch of,

I can imagine it already with my vivid imagination,

somebody in there with 10, nine, 11s or something

and all different variants special

and like a younger guy that's owned money.

He's like, yeah, and I bought this because it's a good deal.

And man, it's got like 850 horsepower.

It's got like some monster cam in it.

It's like, I'm just going to drive it and do like a burnout

and kind of cruise it around and then bring it home.

Like, that's all I kind of see with that car.

I mean, I know that there was a whole series,

the pro touring series where they were competing

with each other.

I don't even know if that still exists.

Year one was a big sponsor on that.

I don't even know if they still exist.

Nothing they do.

I was going to say like one's less.

I'm here at like Boycottington or Chipfus

or any of those names.

Oh, those guys have been out of the game for a minute.

Nobody else has like superseded them.

I still think some of those cars will come back around

like from places like that because Chipfus and Boycottington

and those guys were so innovative and like hot rotting.

I think that hot rod scene will come back.

Like almost like anything will come back.

Almost like another vintage high-five record.

The best way for me to describe it is like those Gimbala cars.

They were a show like during the time when they came out,

they were really popular because it was a flex on money.

It was like the 80s.

It's like cocaine, cowboy, stock market stuff.

It was like, holy shit, you bought an Avalanche,

Gimbala, Avalanche, like that was an 88 was $400,000.

Like that's like $1.2 million or whatever.

But like for a long time, that car,

if you own that car, let's call it in 2000 was embarrassing.

Like you were probably, if you drove that car there,

but like, dude, you're a joke.

Like what is that?

But like there's a handful of people

that probably appreciated that car.

I was like, dude, this car is not a joke, man.

Like this is, it was a lack of education

and a lack of information.

So now that car's expensive again

and now it's in fashion again.

So you think it's just gonna take time?

It's in vogue.

All this shit comes back, man.

I mean, for the longest time,

like people used to knock the 80s so bad.

Remember that?

I mean, we live long enough for that.

Like in 2000s, like if somebody caught you

listening to 80s music, like you're lame, dude.

Like why are you listening to 80s music?

Like now people listen to 80s music.

He's like, that's badass.

It's so vintage.

That's so cool.

Oh, you got an 80s 911?

It's like, man, you are, you're a culture, dude.

But 25 years ago, you were dipshit.

You know, you were lame, right?

That's like driving like an 88 Iraq Camaro in 2000.

They're like, dude, hey, the 80s is calling, bro.

They want their car back.

And it's like, now that's a cool car now.

People are buying those F-bodies.

That's true.

And they're, obviously they're modernizing them.

Those engines sucked, but they're putting

crepe motors in them and they're putting modern

coilovers on them and they're doing like cool stuff.

Like people are making wide body kits for them now.

People are doing stuff with them.

And now it's retro and it's badass.

So of course that shit's going to come back.

Never guess what Mike's building in the backyard.

But to what degree?

Who knows?

Because there's certain things that never come back.

Like I don't think those pre-war cars are ever coming back.

I think there's a small demographic of people

that will always appreciate them.

But from a price point, and I-

Well, and in drivability, just think about that.

Like they are absolute pains.

They have to be, to be anywhere.

Like parking them are giant, visibility, manual,

the three on the tree.

You have to wear like special clothes to drive it.

Like that's a whole thing.

Cause you're just like, oh, it's throwing oil on my face.

You know, the guy gets out of the race

and he takes his goggles off and the bottom of his face

is black from the oil.

He's like, that was fun.

It's an experience.

Yeah.

But I mean, I think there's people who are gonna want that.

And like for those Mila Milias and those like vintage drives,

that's what those cars are already living there.

And they will continue to live there.

But I don't know if they'll ever drive the price point

that they used to bring back in the day

where people used to chase them.

And there used to be the showcase of their collection

where they're like, you know, that's a 37 Duesenberg

and they only ever made seven of those.

And when that car was new back then,

that car was like a million dollars.

And then it probably was super, super wealthy.

It'd be interesting to see the price chart on that

where it was way up and now it's like in the basement.

And I don't think those things

are ever coming back to a point where...

Unless they're just fine.

The only time they could maybe carry on value

would be fine art world.

That's where...

Yeah, display, right?

For display purposes.

But I still think that even for that, I still think...

But not as a car.

Not as a car person, automobile owners.

But even from an insurable commodity situation,

even if you're gonna park it and not drive it, like...

It still can be valued to what it was 15 or 20 years ago.

It's never gonna be as valuable as it once was.

And I don't even know if those Resto mods will ever get...

There's no way those cars can ever achieve

what they were achieving.

Oh, that's the same thing we say

that anything's not a singer or a gunther works right now.

There's a bunch of jobs making stuff.

Yeah, you wonder...

That's cool.

That's an amazing point right there.

I didn't even think about that aspect of it.

We're living through another wave of that

and have been of Resto modding, but with European cars.

What does that look like in 20 years?

Does the bottom drop out of that?

Does the bottom go like, man...

Remember when singers were like...

Well, she wouldn't have touched that, not me.

Yeah, remember when singers were 1.2

and then like 3. something million for a DLS?

I don't think so because there's so few of them.

Yeah.

And...

The moment singer stops being a singer,

that's also gonna be...

That'll be a turning point where they're not making anymore.

Like they've stopped.

Same thing for gunther works.

I don't think...

I think they're so bespoke though.

I think they'll always carry value.

I don't think those cars,

but I'm saying everything outside the planetary circle.

Yeah, I agree.

It's almost kind of like outside of that core, right?

Like you have like the inner core

and then you have like the JV kind of outer circle of that.

Like I think when those ones will probably not carry

the same weight as the...

Basically, first to markets, I guess is the best way to say it.

And they're just gonna drive anything else that's stopped.

Yeah, and I don't wanna use anybody's name

to like to get on the naughty list

or for somebody to get pissed off,

but you know the names and like let's say,

that house makes in their existence

and they'll make their money and they'll be profitable

and they'll pay their people,

but like throughout, let's say that their shelf life

is 10 years as a company.

And let's say, let's just call it starting today.

And they make 150 cars over 10 years.

Well, in 20 years, people are gonna go,

who made this car?

Who the fuck is that?

Yeah.

I mean, you can go look them up on the internet

because it'll be there forever.

That's the nice part.

At least this isn't like pre-digital or like internet era

where like some of those older stuff

where they're kind of like,

well, you know, Bob and Greenwich, Connecticut

did the restore on this thing and say, who?

Well, you know, he was the only one

that services on the East Coast for like 55 years

and then he died and then nobody's got any service

done to anything.

So this is what it is now.

Nobody took over, yeah.

So then you're just, you're going through archives

of paperwork trying to figure stuff out

and you're just like, man, this is,

I didn't realize this is like, I'm archeologist now.

Like I'm trying to figure out how this dinosaur works.

We're gonna need a Wayne Carini this second

or the third.

Exactly.

Cause that knowledge doesn't get passed on, right?

Like not always, but sometimes it does.

Anyways, we were pretty lengthy.

I don't have anything else.

No, I mean, I guess buy the car you want to buy.

Yeah.

I mean, everything's ebb and flow, right?

So it just, it'll be interesting to see, I mean,

who knows what'll happen with all that stuff.

Nobody has a crystal ball, but some stuff stays,

some doesn't, it just, I don't know.

I think more modern resto stuff has learned.

Some of these shops have learned in a good way

of how to make sure their product remains viable.

Meaning, I think initially,

I don't think Singer does it anymore,

but they used to try to,

and they still may try to do this

because every once in a while,

I want them to sneak out to auction.

But if you look at it,

there's never really a lot of them ever listed.

I didn't see them around, but I don't know.

I think they try to be,

and I think Gunther does this too,

where they dictate even the secondary market

on their product, so it always remains high.

And that's a testament to how much they care

about their customer base,

because if they didn't care, they wouldn't chase those down.

Because they'd be like, whatever you can sell it for,

you can sell it for, we don't want that thing back, man.

We're making new cars.

They want to control numbers.

Yeah, they want to control the price, right?

So it also helps justifying the sale of a new car

because if you're able to control the used car price

to say, hey, this was a used one that had 10,000 miles on it,

and we sold it for 1.5.

And you bought a new car at 8.50.

Like, you stole that from us.

Look how good you did.

You want to buy another one?

Exactly.

But I mean, it's all psychological, right?

You can't buy a classic anymore.

You're gonna have to buy a turbo or a catalyst.

But you can buy this one for 1.2, though.

Yeah, just got it.

I got one.

Just got it.

I got one in the back.

You probably like the color.

It's like, you get them twice, right?

You got them on a new one,

and then you got them on an old one.

So it's like, bang, bang.

Customer for life.

That's what it's like.

Got them, got them.

All right, well, we out for real this time.

Yep, see you.

See you.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of P-Car Talk.

Connect with us on Instagram at pcartalk

or online at pcartalk.com.

Magnus Walker Sells, Porsche Exits China & The Shifting Market

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