Manual v PDK GT3: which is best?

This is NineWorks Radio, brought to you by the NineWorks marketplace and powered by the

driven, not hidden, collective. Sign up now at NineWorks.co.uk.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to NineWorks Radio. There's three of us in the virtual

building today. It's myself, Lee Sibley. I'm joined by my fellow amigo, Andy Brooks.

Hello.

Slightly weird, but we'll go with it. I'm not sure if that was a strangled cat or not.

And we're also joined by the third amigo for today's show. It's Steve. Steve Kav from

The Driven, not Hidden Collective. How are you doing good, sir?

I'm good. Hello, both of you. Good to see you.

So we're starting this episode with slight trepidation, Steve, because the last time

you graced the podcast, you did such a stellar job, along with Sikib reviewing what was 2024.

Andy and I were worried for our jobs. It was so... I mean, you've obviously scared Max

into submission.

Max has gone, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That's it.

In the game of attrition, it's just two to go now. But yeah, it's a real, real

pleasure to have you back on. So thanks for giving us your time.

No, you're welcome.

It seems really like a couple of weeks ago, since you and I were sitting on the pit wall

at the Abbeville track day, and we were watching your GT3 go around. I think it was your brother

driving it, or it might have been somebody else with your brother.

Yeah, a couple of people took it around. Yeah.

Yeah. So yeah, but obviously the year is zipped by in a flash. Any automotive highlights

that you'd like to mention?

Oh, it's really good. I mean, it's been a great year, actually. It's been a great

year. Obviously, we did some road trips with you guys. We took the... When I picked up the

R, literally days after that from Harpercars, I was on the Welsh road trip, which was fantastic

as ever. That's always a great event. So yeah, that was great. Slightly concerning with

46 PSI tires. I wondered why the car moved around a bit at the back, and it wasn't

until we checked the old pressures at the back that they were 16 higher than they

should have been.

Was that when I drove it or before?

No, I think they might have been sorted. It was when we got down to the... It was on

the last day, actually, when we got down to the bottom. And then you were going back

up and down, and you left your SC.

Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. That was when I checked the pressures. Because it felt... It just

didn't... And it felt... Because you don't know the car, right? You don't know exactly

what it's like. And it had... It's still got P-zeros on it, and they're not my first

choice of tire. And so new car to you, tires that you're immediately more

suspect about, like a four-arrest or similar. So it was moving around a little bit,

but it was so inconsistent in how it felt. Sometimes it felt amazing, and it

was just flowing through those roads. And other times, I was like, oh, it's

little... I'm not sure about that. And it was on that first morning, we got to the

bottom of that thing. And I just felt... I think I was following James in his

997. And I was like, oh, this doesn't feel right. I think he had a moment as well.

And I was like, perhaps we're both... Perhaps it's both a bit... Just conditions

or whatever. And we got down to the bottom. And I borrowed someone's tire

pressure monitor. And it was... Yeah, they were like 16 over. And it's like

crikey. And I don't know how that had happened. I don't know whether... I don't

know how they got to that. Anyway, I put them down to 30. They meant to be 30s

all around. And it was amazing. After that, you know, you just, oh, yeah, this

is perfect. But yeah, you would have driven it... You would have driven it

with the pressures not quite right. And I think it didn't fit. And it felt

fine. It was so inconsistent. Yeah, that was... That... What's that

road? It sort of comes down from the top, from where we were staying down

to Bala. It's kind of the road that drops down over the sort of almost

more like... Yes, yes, exactly. It's quite a lovely, lovely road.

Floaty and nice. And it's just like... There's no trees there. It's just

more grass and more type place. It's beautiful. I love that road.

Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Yeah. Good car. Good car.

Yeah, that was great.

Yeah, that was great. But Abbaville was great in the white

GT3. And then Thruxton was great in the red one. So

yeah, that's been a good year. Good year all round, really.

Excellent, Steve. Excellent. Yes. I mean, as you've alluded to

there, you know, old and new GT3, you've got a really

interesting story, which we feel listeners to not much

radio be particularly interested in today. Because in the realm of

manual versus PDK, which is the best transmission for a GT car

GT3, you've quite literally sampled both as an owner. So we've

got a really lovely conversation in the offing in terms of

comparing apples with apples. So really looking forward to

hearing your insights on to that shortly, particularly as well,

I kind of forgot. And you've you've you've you would have

driven both those cars on road and track as well. So

Yes, yes. Yeah. And I've been I've been compiling. I didn't

want to get straight in because you have honeymoon period,

don't you? And then you have the, and I did I do the right

thing bit. And then it's so I wanted to I wanted to have

experienced it, how I experienced the PDK car, I

wanted to be able to have amassed enough information and

context to feel like I could yeah, okay, I've got an informed

opinion now rather than just being ways got the manual and

you know, and just that like kind of overseeing everything. So

yeah, the only thing I haven't done in it for full disclosure

is is a big old road trip, right? But but but everything

else is, you know, I've got a masternough miles now to be

comfortable chatting about it.

Excellent. Excellent. Well, that's very analytic, doesn't

it? It does. It does. It does. Before we dive into, yeah,

like manual VP DK GT three, I just want to say a bit of a

shout out because aside from Steve, who's had his buying

boots on this year, some other members of the driven

within collective have also done so particularly in the last

week, it's been a busy week within the collective. So Andy

your initiative to fling out a load of complimentary buying

boots t shirts is going down a storm, my friends. So it

does seem to be like another ordering. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So

just want to say a bit of a shout out really. So Ian has got

himself into a Taycan GTS. Paolo has got himself into a

987.2 KMS. Beautiful thing that. And I think more than a

little bit of influence from following Steve and your are

around Wales in the spring for sure.

He said, Lee, he said Wales has got a lot to answer for

love that. Love that. Lee has got himself into a spider RS.

Mark has got himself into a none on 2.1 Carrera for GTS. This

is all in the last week, by the way, since we last

recorded how do you remember? The DNHC is propping up the

economy, I think, automotive speaking, also just want to

give a shout out to Ben as well as had a little bit of a

bump in the road in the last week, we're looking

forward to seeing what positivity comes out of that,

my friend. So we'll cover some news because in the off

chance, there's going to be some journalism covered here, we

kind of feel compelled to do so. Just before we went on air,

Porsche released details on the Mantai kit for the new GT3

992.2. Not sure if you guys have seen that at all. I

didn't see that. Yeah, no. Yeah, so it's kind of usual

Mantai fare really. So aerodynamic tweaks, tweaks

to like the brakes upping their performance and suspension

tweaks as well. And I'd imagine there'll be a geometry to

kind of bolt in on top of all of that. What's interesting is

on the press release, Porsche hasn't given the price of it,

which is a slightly weird with the RS version. It was 99,999

quid in the UK. I think the previous GT3 was around 60. So

it's going to fall somewhere in between there, isn't it really?

Porsche does say that it's 540 kilos of downforce. Let me just

check the exact speed, because I feel like some context is key.

504 up to 540 kilos of downforce at 285 kilometers an

hour. Without the Mantai kit, again, I've struggled for

figures really, but it just gives 140 kilos in a road

setting, but that's 200 kilometers. What I will say

is we can compare it to the RS at the same speed 285 kilometers

an hour. The RS hits 860 kilos, whereas as I said, this new GT3

is 540. So somewhere a little bit down the way from that. But

yeah, for whatever reason, Porsche has not released figures

for that worldwide. We have asked our friends at Porsche

Centre Bournemouth if they're privy to the price. And as

soon as we know, we shall let everybody else at home

How about a new KN? Have you seen that?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, so

Electric.

Okay, should we move on?

I think it's worth covering it. I know like we, yeah, in the

main, we're kind of a Porsche sports car podcast, but I think

it will be of interest to some listeners as well. So it's a

new evolution to the Cayenne story with this Cayenne

electric now. It's at top level 1150 PS.

Hell.

It's crazy, crazy stuff. 2.7 tons, I think 640 kilometers of

range as well. And 2.5 seconds 0 to 60, which or to 62, that is

100 kilometers an hour, which is extremely quick for

something that's over two tons, I have to say.

It's mad, isn't it?

Yeah, I think the most interesting thing for me is the

concept of the wireless charging. Did you guys see any of

that?

I haven't seen that, no.

Pretty cool, because I think, you know, that technology

can be used on all sorts going forward. It's not gonna be

exclusive to the Cayenne, is it?

What's that actually included in the car? Is it?

It's optional.

Oh, okay.

Interesting.

It's basically, it's basic. You couldn't have it, Andy. I

will say that. If you had your Cayenne electric, you

couldn't have it, because it's basically a wireless mat that

sits in your garage. And I know you've got a cat. So unless

you want to turn your cat into a hedgehog, I'm not really

sure how that works, if little doogie goes and has a little

nap. But yeah, I think that sort of thing is the

technology at large needs that sort of evolution to allow it

to work for a wider band of people, doesn't it? Simple as

that. So I think that's quite a cool and ingenious

development from Porsche engineers.

It is. I think that sort of thing, getting it, you know,

just being able to park over the top of that thing and not

have to plug anything, anything that reduces the barrier to

entry to having, you know, having the car live with

you and work for you, I think is a win, essentially.

Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, let's dive into the meat and bones of this

episode then, which is GT3 manual VPDK. So I guess Steve, to

begin with, would you mind giving us kind of a top, top level

lowdown, really, on what you started with, why you've gone

into what you have?

Yeah, it's a great show. And actually, I'm going to bring a

third car in for some context, actually, which is the car I

started with, which so before, before the before's my first

GT car was a 981 GT4.

So that that that was manual, obviously, because they only did

those in a manual. And specifically, it had steels,

steel brakes, and that will come on to that because that does

play a part in in the kind of manual driver experience of the

other two cars, which have both got carbon ceramics. So yes,

like the I learned to with every car I buy, I want to learn

something about it. I want I want it to make me a better

driver, ultimately. And so one of the things the GT4 taught me

essentially was to heal and toe rev match, because I used the

auto blip to work through how much you know, how how how that

engine and where you needed to play with that. And then I

turned it off and basically worked through that and you

know, got some level of skill of doing so.

And then I wanted to do GT3. And I looked around and my spec

was I was going to go I was looking for a manual, you know,

I was, you know, I've never I've never been a, you know, a

strong advocate for desiring the auto box. But I've never been

against them. It's not, you know, and and I was looking

for the right car. And at the time, at the time, manuals

were, you know, rocking horse poo in terms of being able

to find it find one with the right spec, all of that

stuff. Because, you know, it's the rest of the story is

equally, if not more important, right? And actually, that's

where the car turned up at Paragon on the marketplace, you

know, it must have been one of the first cars through the

marketplace, even I don't know, but it was it was back in the

day, right? And I saw that car came up and I was like, you

know, everything about it, I didn't want I didn't want a

white car, but it was, you know, and but the, you

know, the allure of of power, it being a Paragon car and

everything else, I thought, this is the right, yeah, this

this could be right could well be the right car for me. And so

yeah, I ultimately took the decision because of the rest

of the story of the car was fantastic. It was about 4k

miles, four and a four and a half k miles when I picked

it up. Yeah, it was like, I tell you what, you know,

this is this is going to be insane. It's a GT car. This

isn't going to be a problem. And, and, you know, it

proved to be very much the case. But, you know, I always

had that in the back of the mind, I wonder what the manual

slide because, you know, it was it was there. The PDK is

insane. The you know, I I always knew that it matched

the engine incredibly well. And what's interesting with

those cars is, for both the manual and the automatic,

there's multiple ways you can drive those things. So when

I was when I picked the car up, I was chatting to Jay, and

he's and, you know, he's talking about he was saying

about, you know, he's got a big brake pedal, you could you

could learn to left foot brake in it. And I was asked, that's

interesting. You got the double width pedal. Okay, you

know, you're engaging both feet, you know, salesmanship

there, you know what Jay's like, you know, sand to the

Arabs. And so I thought, well, I'll do that. Let's let's

try a bit of that. And you can flick the gear shift over

to the right and you can do the sequential and it's the

right way with the correct way around in my view on the GT

cars where you're, you know, you're pulling back to go up

through the gears and you're blacking forward by pushing

it forward towards the so you feel like a rally hero. And

and so that was, you know, and I was so quite frankly,

worried and scared about the engine alone, just being a

lot, right? Because that the difference between the GT

four and the GT three when you drive it is is I mean,

the GT four is an incredible car, absolutely incredible.

But then you get the other engine that four liter

motorsport engine and it's you're like, Oh my God, this is

completely different gravy and and you know, and having it

tied to an automatic pop into a lot for you, you can just

leave it in leave it in auto. So I think I drove the

entire way home, you know, from Paris about three hour

drive from from where I am. And yeah, I don't think I

took it out a man took it out of auto and I just I was

like, kind of got home. And no, yeah, yeah, no, it was

literally, I think, you know, I put it in a garage. Oh my

God. And then I started taking it out and get learning

carbon ceramics are insane, you can feel the difference

between those in the steelys at the top of the pedal. But on

an auto, it doesn't matter quite so much, you're just

using it to to to balance the car, which is great, you

can just you can, you can have both pedals pressed

at the same time, you don't have to come off the the

throttle to be able to just dip the nose and tuck that

in. So that became, you know, a skill that I was

learning. And then then I was the next iteration was to

push the, you know, push the gear shift to the right. And

when I was driving spiritedly, I would have it on the

paddles, you know, with the rest of the time, it would

just be an auto for the entire time I own that car, I

didn't turn on the sports PDK. I think I tried it

once. It held the revs at about seven and a half,

you know, in every gear, I thought, well, this, this

like, I might as well be a manual here. So that

wasn't for me. So that's really interesting, like

that particular, that particular facet of the of

the gearbox just was, if I was on track, I wanted to

be manual, if I was driving spiritedly, I wanted to

balance the car with the pedals and the paddles. And

if I wasn't on it, I wanted it in auto and just

called as a cucumber, right? It would be 30 mile an

hour, it'd be up in fifth or something. And so it

was just super smooth and and what have you. So

yeah, the that car, that gearbox, they suited

each other so so well. And that was the car that I

took on nine works road trip to the to the museum.

Yes. And and and that is one of those moments

where you, you know, it's that bonding moment with

the car. And I had John with me in the passenger

seat and we had such a laugh on that trip and

just following all of the other metal and late

I was you forget, right? Once you're driving

that car, you or once you've made the

purchase, I felt I never once again thought about

the manual. I didn't feel like oh, I was looking

for a manual once I once I was learning the car

that I had. There was no comparison. I wasn't

looking to to to to go on. I wonder what that

other ones like I just got to learning that

car. And I felt over those road trips over

the track days, you've you really got to be

able to get comfortable with the power that's

there. It's a naturally aspirated engine. So

it's not going to scare you to bits because

you've got to be, you know, got, you know,

got put foot to the carpet to have to, you

know, to rev it up and out. Because it's got

so many gears, it's got seven gears, the

gears don't feel as long as they did on

the on the GT4. You know, that that that

manual gearbox, you definitely felt they

were perhaps a little longer on road than

you'd like on a on a big track, they

were fine. But on a smaller track, you

were you weren't using many of them.

You know, it's that sort of thing.

Whereas on the PDK, again, I forgot the

length of the gear was irrelevant because

it was it was the resonance around the

car was was the, you know, you could

control it quite nicely. And and it's

very, it's very easy to just, if you're

if you're in a gear too high, you can

immediately be in the next gear down or

up and you can move that around. The

car's not going to not go because not

going to give you a gear you don't

want. Or you shouldn't have more

importantly. And that was key because

I'm a I'm a sharer, right? And so,

you know, that part of me owning a

car is that I can actually have that

being driven by as far as locked into

concerned anyone over the age of 35,

right? And I wanted to be able to have

you know, people experience that car

and in the PDK, you can just hand

the keys and just go, you're going to

be fine, right? You know, don't be

a hero. The brakes are going to stop

you on a sixpence and the you know,

the car's not going to give you a

key you shouldn't have. No way, you

know, like, and you're on the road

anyway. So you know, so from that

perspective, it was I could always

just sit in the passenger seat of

that car, give the keys to anyone.

And you know, the biggest danger

was being put through the windscreen

because somebody's left foot break

to the the brake pedal, right?

And the old ceramics of, you know,

like, you know, the old seatbelt

stopped you, you know, because you

would get a bit of that. But that's

about it.

That's exactly what I was going to

ask when you when you said when

you were left learning to like

left foot break and it's like,

hang on, left foot breaker with

ceramics is like, yeah, did you

did you snozz on forward penetrate

the winds?

Definitely had a few of those.

And actually, my technique for that

was was quite interesting in as

much as what I would do is I would

left foot break on the left side of

the pedal, but I would still come

off the throttle and I would hover

my right foot over the right

hand side of the pedal. So if

ever I felt like I need to get

back to normal, I could just, you

know, the right foot would take

over. And there was a very

early on, you you definitely dab

a bit too much. But I'm not, you

know, I do a lot of sim sim

driving. So it's not like my left

left peg is entirely devoid of

the idea. But your brain

definitely does. And those

breaks are insane. They are

truly, truly insane. And a lot

of they they are, they are one

of the things that give you

such the confidence in being

able to drive that car, because

the the whole car is so well

balanced. Those 991.2 GT3s are

done if we actually expressed

exactly what car it was. But

we're talking about 991.2 GT3s,

the balance in those things and

the way that you can shift the

weight around and do so safely.

And and and feel where it is,

you can feel on, you know, where

where the weight is going. And

then, you know, the car helps

you out. You know, for for

better or worse, some people

obviously don't want to help

them and will have you. But

for the most part, it's

such a confidence inspiring

drive. And for me,

absolutely, I'm not Chris

Harris, right? Like, you know,

it's I'll take all of the help

and then I slowly want to dial

that back, you know, at the

right times. And so so for me

being able to, to, you know,

not have to focus on the box

and just focus on the brake

pedal helps you learn the

brake pedal. And once you

feel you've got the

confidence that you can go,

okay, right, I'll go back on

the paddles now. And I'll do

the paddles and the pedals

and you're doing, you're

doing, you know, left, left

and right foot are doing

something at the same time as

your hands left and right

hands are going up and down

the box and you're going

into a corner, you're

balancing the whole, the whole

the whole car shape of the

car on whether you've, you've

just taken a little bit off

with the brake, but you're

still the revs are still up

because you're on the, you're

on the throttle, you've

adjusted which gear you are

going in. And so there was

never any lack of engagement.

I know people say that the,

you know, the PDK is less

engaging. That is so not

the case with that car

when you're driving it, you

know, that's the key you

can drive it around town,

like golf, absolutely. And

it'll look after you. But

actually in terms of when

you're doing, when you're

wanting to drive and you're

in a position where you can,

like there's no lack of

engagement there. You've just

got to be able to, you know,

you've got to put, you've

got to think about what it

is, you know, where is the

weight in the car? Where

do I want it to be? You

know, is there a way of me

taking the nose in here

without lifting off or

dropping another gear or

is exactly, is that

exactly what I need to do

in this situation? So there's

so much to learn, but

you can do it in a, in a,

in a really, really safe way.

Because if you overcook it,

you can, you can anchor on

if you've, if you're on the

wrong gear, the car will

look after you, all of that

stuff.

Yeah, it's a, it's such a

clever gearbox that PDK,

which I know kind of

the populace tends to

appreciate, but perhaps

not as much or to the

degree that it really

should. And, and funny

enough, Steve, your

experiences with that car

on the trip to the Porsche

Pats a couple of years

ago really sticks with me.

I don't know if you

remember you had a GoPro

on board, I think.

And when you were

traversing our favourite road

in, in France, the squiggly

one, just the way

that car and you were

flowing through those

corners with the car was

absolutely outstanding.

And then obviously there was

a bit of auto barn in there.

There was a little bit of,

yeah, driving into urban

areas when we were like

hitting our overnight stops

and whatnot. And that car

is one of the kind of

core takeaway memories

for me from that trip was

just how good that car

was at doing everything.

And that's the thing with

PDK, it just makes

a very hardcore

track car. Extremely

multifaceted, really.

100%. It's like, I mean,

and that 981 GT4

I was daily and that was

my daily car, right?

No nose lift,

scrapeathon, you know,

you soon, soon realise

that the front lip was

slightly less than a tyre

at the time.

You know, I think they were

150 quid for the,

for a new front splitter,

you know, which is

definitely not the case now,

but at the time they were

about that. So there was less

than a front tyre.

So you just got used to,

oh, well, I just,

yeah, I'm hearing that again,

you know, and you have to do

the whole wiggle to get

over stuff.

And but you just, you know,

you just got used to it.

Whereas the GT3 is so nice.

Got nose lift.

Why they didn't put that

on the 981 GT4 or even

the 718, I don't know

because it changes

the usability of that car

in a way that no other

feature would.

And so just having,

you know, some of those,

some of those

kind of down ramps into the

hotels we were on on that trip.

You know, I was coming down

behind Guy and I know, you know,

like he's he's in a

in an earlier edition GT3.

And you're like, oh, I forget

the guy can get down.

I'll be able to get down.

And, you know, and the nose

lift goes up and it just

makes it so, so easy.

The one thing I didn't have

on that car that the red

manual's got is the

reversing camera.

And actually, one of the,

one of the things I was most

worried about doing the switch

was going backwards, right?

The as in reversing or

slow maneuvers.

Because I've got to put it in

and out of the garage.

And I got, I got

really the PDK is really smooth.

You know, you can engage a gear

and and it's not jumpy.

There's definitely like

performance BMWs where

where it's like trying to

deliver a thousand pound

foot of torque, you know, as

you've lifted off the break,

let alone touch the throttle.

And with that car,

I could maneuver that car

around car parks and into

garages and really going

backwards, I did not have

the camera.

And so you got, you got,

you know, kind of used to

know in where the edge of the

wing was and how much

you had behind.

And I thought going to

the manual with a lightweight

flywheel because the PDK's

got it's got the dual weight

flywheel.

They can't put the lightweight

flywheel on the on the PDK

because of the resonance

and something to do with

the gearbox, whereas the

manual has got that

lightweight flywheel.

So it's really cutty

on the on the throttle.

And I thought, yeah, putting

this in and out of spaces

and whatever, you know, I'm

going to be going through a

hedge backwards, starting

backwards, you know, rather

than spinning into it.

But actually that that wasn't

a case at all.

And this car's got the

camera on it, which just

changes the game as well.

So yeah, backwards was my

first concern.

So yeah, Steve, you've done

a grand job of selling

the use case for a GT3

paired with a PDK gearbox.

But evidently, at some point,

there must have been at least

a little nagging in the back

of your mind that said, I

really want to try the manual.

So when did that happen?

And after how long of PDK GT3

ownership did that change

take place?

Yeah, it's a great show.

And and yeah, so I did.

I think I handed that car

back in on 16 K and change

something like that.

So I'd had it, you know,

I've done I've done the

miles in it.

And it was fabulous.

By the way, that car was

the air who has got that

car now.

Congratulations, that is

an absolute balter.

It's going to look after you.

It was like I literally

know not a light on.

It was it was seamless.

Get the keys, drive it

constantly, hand it back.

It was perfect.

But over the course

of that ownership,

you know, there's a Porsche

out there for everyone.

And there's always

there's always like you

get to the edge of where

you feel you know you are.

And and I at the end

of last year, the aim

on the pod was to maybe

getting a 997 dot one or

dot two, three RS.

And I was waiting

and looking, looking

and waiting.

And the dot twos felt

they were a little bit

late.

They escaped my grasp a

little bit.

They were they were coming

out more than they were

two years earlier, quite

reasonably.

But the dot ones have

stayed around the same price

for a long time.

And I was like, maybe

that's the maybe that's

the move and and I was

looking.

And then the the

red GT three manual

turned up as an opportunity

at Paragon.

I was like, oh, actually,

like that is this is the

perfect opportunity to

back to back the experience

going to be an expensive

way of doing it.

Ultimately, I also thought

that that, you know,

if I don't do it now,

I'm never going to have

that lived with I know

exactly how that PDK car

works.

I could drive that

in my sleep, right.

And and so I felt

that actually this is

the opportunity.

And spec wise, the cars

you know, outside of the

exterior color and a bit

more carbon flapping around

on the inside, it's the same.

They are the same spec.

So so they've got

they've both got the car

and ceramics.

They've they've both got

the buckets that their

club sport cars, all of that

stuff, it is.

They are about as like

for like as you could get.

They're both on forest

tires because I took

I took the cup twos

off the white one,

the PDK car

because I'd like to drive them

all year round or as much as

possible.

The forest is just

a has got a longer

or like a wider edge to it.

So you can drive it more

comfortably throughout the year.

So they're both on forest tires.

So again, they are as like for

like as you can, you could do

apart from the middle of the

middle of the car.

So I thought, you know,

this is perfect.

This will give me I will know

I will I will be able to

judge, you know,

how they're different, where

they're different.

And and so I went for it.

And yeah, another car.

Again, it was on.

It was a low mileage car

picked up on around 5K,

you know, so 5K miles.

And when from there

and what was interesting

is is is it was

immediately comfortable, right?

You immediately.

OK, yeah, 95 percent

of this car is the same, right?

You know, like that

when I touch the brake pedal,

it behaves exactly as the

as the other one did.

But it's a bit smaller

the actual brake pedals

with smaller.

So you've got to if you're going

to do left foot braking,

you need to you need to think

about where that is going

because you have to move

the foot further over.

And, you know, all of that sort

of stuff. And as you've pointed

out, I'm quite analytical.

So I like to I like to kind

of dig into the details,

even to the point where,

like where my heel is,

where the heel of my left foot

is, like I work out

where that needs to go

so that I can do it.

And the same on a heel

toe when I'm doing doing

here, so I all of that

stuff, I think about those

things when I'm driving.

But I was really surprised

at how light the clutch was.

I was a bit almost disappointed

that, you know, it was a

it just felt a bit like a normal

clutch, not in a bad way,

but it didn't.

It's like, oh, this is there's

no effort there.

This is going to be easy

to drive around town.

That's a shame.

You know, I was almost like,

oh, you know, you wanted to.

It didn't feel like a

performance clutch and it's

lighter than the R.

So it's lighter than

than the Cayman R.

By by a fair distance,

it's lighter than the 981 GT

4. It's lighter than JIT's

GT 2 clutch, but I don't think

it's much heavier to be

brutally honest.

That is a proper leg workout.

But but I was surprised

at how light it was.

And the gear shift is is a

delight. It is gorgeous.

It is interestingly

higher sprung than I was

expecting. So first, second,

third, fourth, fifth

behaves exactly as you expect.

But coming from fifth to sixth,

it is naturally sprung

to go back to fourth because it

is probably expecting you to do

a you know, it's going to help

you with the downshift.

Yeah. And if in it first,

I was going from fifth

to fourth

because I was being late.

Yeah, I wasn't putting the right

amount of putting the

effort came in our amount of effort

in to get the shift over there.

And that's got the GT3

short shift in it.

And it and it was I was

hitting fifth and that's a bit

bloody odd. And but again,

it's just that it's just a

rotation of the wrist to make

sure you're guiding it.

And so it's even that little

nuances of how how the

gear shift is sprung.

And we'll, yeah, we'll avoid all

of the classic tropes about

being a rifle about one of those

other things, right?

It's just a really, really,

really good gear shift.

If you yeah, if you if you

think of the some of the best

six speed shifts, it's one of

those is out outrageously good.

But what was the clutch was

interesting clutch was lighter.

But what was immediately evident

the first time I drove it

on one of my normal routes is

the the ratios, the noise,

the ambient noise in the cabin,

the resonance that goes through

the cabin, it felt an angry

car and it felt an angry car

and allowed a car because

first isn't the same length

as the PDK, neither second,

neither third, neither fourth.

The the flywheel, you've got

the lightweight flywheel

versus the dual mass flywheel.

Everything sounds like a bit

loud and a bit anger,

which I really enjoyed.

I really liked it.

Of course, no one's shifting for you.

So you're not doing the PDK

get you up to fifth in 30

immediately, you know, you

stood in first at 30.

And then you know, so I mean,

like, even if you shifted

when the little arrow tells you to go,

it's still it's still shifting

at a different point.

So the resonance.

Yeah, it's different.

But yeah.

And so I started learning.

I went through the same roads,

all of my normal roads

and and honestly,

I felt like I couldn't drive.

I felt like I'd lost a load of ability.

It's like somebody had, you know,

like, forgotten how my feet work

because I was going into corners

that I knew the speed

that that car would go around.

And and you know,

it wouldn't be feeling comfortable

and what's what is going on?

And it was it came down to.

I was trying to drive it

how I drove the PDK

and you can't do that.

You can you have to drive it differently.

And and so I was like,

OK, well, what does differently?

Like how what's going to be different about this?

And so I started again,

I don't want to use the autopilot, right?

So bad. And I thought, hey,

I've I've sussed this in the, you know,

I can the Cayman R is a is a cheat code

for being able to do rev matching

and he'll so and all of that.

And and the duty for I learn it.

So I thought we're off to the races here.

And the reality was like that lightweight flywheel

where the bike where the bike point was on the clutch,

which isn't where it is in the R,

the sheer inertia and spin up that that engine has is insane.

So everything is much choppier.

And then you throw that brake pedal

in that wants to put you through the windscreen.

If you even think about touching it, right?

Like trying to balance the plate of the car

in that in, you know,

where you want to put the weight of the car,

where you want it as it's not an amateur game.

You know, when you know when and so that that really set me back.

I was like, oh, I think you know, I've not made the right move here.

This is, you know, this is this is a disaster.

I've just spent a fair bit of money getting cars in a nice red.

But I'm I'm not going to be able to drive this thing.

And so it took weeks and weeks and weeks.

There was a little bit of, oh, here we go.

But I saw that it was like, actually,

I'm just going to have to relearn this.

Like I'm expecting it to be the same

because it's the same car and it really isn't.

And then over the weeks and months,

I drive it more and more and just like really learn,

relearn the engine, relearn where that bike point was

on the clutch, relearn where the how to how,

how much pressure to put on the brake.

And the biggest challenge was

being able to I got used to rev it.

So I went back to learning to rev match in that car

without doing the heel type.

So you're just downshift, blip, bring it back up.

I started getting that right again.

And then went into being able to heel toe

with your weight on the brake and making sure

that the balance of the car on the brake

was ready before you did the blip.

And how, at what point you blipped,

at what point the gear stick was moving

and at what point the clutch was already moving

to come back up because it's not a sprung,

the GT4 clutch is quite sprung.

So it's helping you out of it.

Whereas the, if you keep your weight off the,

if you relax your leg on the GT3,

but a little stay down,

whereas on the GT4 when it will start moving it back out

for you, well, that's how I felt with this what it got to be.

You've got to be doing that action yourself.

And so I relearn all of that.

And yeah, the hard, the final piece

was being able to break hard on the ceramics,

roll your foot over without changing how much brake

you need to apply or trail and get the blip right

and get the gear stick moved and the clutch up.

And I like I said, I'm not going to embarrass it.

So it took me a long time.

Yeah, that is, that is an extremely difficult thing to do.

I think anyway, in that car with that engine

and also with those brakes as well, definitely.

Because there's, as we've said before,

just with the ceramics at road speeds,

there's just not a lot of pedal travel needed

to curtail speed.

So that is quite a talent to master that.

Yeah, it took a long time.

And that's why I mentioned the GT4.

It's more the fact that that had the steels on it.

And I actually think that if I had my time again,

knowing what I know now,

or if I was going to give somebody some advice,

unless the ceramics were an absolute deal breaker

for whatever reason, there's reasons to have them

and they will all still stand.

But if, or if you're going to use the auto blip,

don't worry about it.

But if, like me, that's the sort of thing

that you want to learn from the car,

then the steels, the steels make, just take that,

make that a little bit easier.

There's just less, like you say, bite at the top.

And that's where I use, I learned it thruched.

And so one of the APC Bournemouth Nine Works Track Day,

that was great.

I barreled around that

and I started off with the auto blip on.

And then, you know, by the end of it,

it's, I was, that was often,

and I felt super comfortable going into that last hairpin,

145 or whatever, down a couple of cogs

into that hairpin left, right?

And then by then you were in second or third,

depending on where you left it, and then accelerate out.

And I felt I was okay.

That was the point where I was like, okay,

I'm beginning to feel like I can say I can do this again.

And it was quite, I was driving home

and I was quite chuffed that, like,

A, that track day is always fun, right?

Track day is always fun.

But I just felt like that track time,

I kind of got to that point with that car

that I felt, okay, I'm almost back to where I was.

And that's the people doing those different things

in those cars.

That's why, you know, there is,

you can't just drive around town in one of those cars

and say you've experienced it.

You can't just take it out on track

and say you've experienced it.

You can't just take them on a road trip

and say you have to do all,

you have to live with all of those things

before you can say, you know,

it's a great car, everything.

But to understand it,

you have to try all of those things.

And they are, you're not gonna be unhappy

with either of those cars, right?

You know, ultimately, if you are a,

if you, from an affordance perspective,

or you're a PDK diehard,

that is to me one of the pinnacles of that gearbox.

And if you're coming from, say, a 997 or into that,

it is telepathic, genuinely telepathic.

You have all of them.

And if anyone tells you it's not engaging,

like, yeah, like get them into one and prove different

because it really isn't the case.

If you're a diehard manual fan,

then get the manual.

The manual is an incredible manual.

There's lots to learn there.

And if you don't want to use the auto blip,

then there's even more to learn.

If you're on the fence,

then there are no losers.

Find the car that's got the rest of the spec to suit you

and don't hang the decision on the transmission.

There's so many other parts of that car

that might be more important to you, you know,

and that would be my takeaway.

Because if I was buying again, right,

like ultimately I feel the pair of them

have taught me a lot about it.

And actually, you know, I'm going to get another car, right?

If I ever came back to a 991.2 GT3,

the transmission wouldn't be the deciding point.

It would be like, you know,

some other facet of the car.

And I'd probably look for steels, you know,

because I think that might be a manual with steels.

That might genuinely be the sweetest of sweet spots.

Yeah, particularly, I mean, this is fascinating, Steve,

because again, you can deliver

the most comprehensive experience all round

in order to deliver like something of a verdict here

rather than us kind of bleeding on about it all the time.

But there's something I've always felt

quite strongly about that if you're, you know,

regardless of whether it's a GT car or not,

if the majority of your driving is on the road,

then steels with a manual is such a lovely pairing

that allows you to really get the most

from that hilltop experience.

If you're an absolute hardcore track addict

and you're all about lap times, lap times, lap times,

then PDK and ceramics is absolutely what you need.

And just, you know, those two facets of spec alone

create two very different cars, you know?

And again, correct me if I'm wrong,

but what I'm hearing from you and indeed what I've seen

via some lovely highlights you shared

on your Instagram page of the Thruxton Track Day

because what watching that car

and you pedal that car round track,

I think I even commented saying, you know,

the speeds that you're able to carry

even through corners with that car was pretty frightening.

And it's a manual gearbox,

you're doing all the work there, right?

So for me, it looks like with a PDK,

which is a race gearbox,

lest we forget first debuted on the 962 and whatnot,

that can almost kind of come down

to deliver the urban driving as well

and execute that to perfection.

Whereas the manual car, the six-speed manual

with that engine can almost pucker up really well

to deliver the driving around town

but can then absolutely execute a highly thrilling

and ultimately very fast track experience.

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

And one thing on those cars

that intrigues me about the ST actually

is Abbeyville's a tight old circuit.

That is not a modern GT circuit by,

you know, it's not your first choice, right?

If there was four in the car park,

you're gonna be taking the air called

and having a right or a 996 or, you know,

that is absolutely the right track for the cars,

for those tracks.

But the rear wheel steer on those cars

on the 991.2 GT3s, they can change,

they can make a Titan twisty track

or a Titan twisty road just accessible

in a way that you're thinking, hang on,

I'm still going like,

how is this front end pointing in like this?

Cause it isn't the same front end as the 992.

That's got a different level of point in this again.

But the way that that rear,

the whole arc of the car shrinks around

with that rear wheel steer,

it changes the types of terrain

that you can do in a car that powerful

and a car that, you know,

that's really set up for a Silverstone, right?

That's the Thruxton and Silverstone.

That's kind of GT3 territory there.

Spa would be amazing.

But actually, Abbeville, like smile on my face, right?

Like there was no, there was no point was I think,

you know, this car's a bit wide and a bit long

and a bit, you know,

because you could, the rear wheel steer

just soaks up those curves.

Yeah.

And literally, yeah,

shortens the wheelbase, right?

And it's almost like it will pivot

from its hips on a six-pence.

It's clever, clever tech.

Yeah, Steve, it's been really interesting

getting that apples with apples comparison, as we said,

and how, and it's classic Porsche engineers

while we love these cars,

it doesn't just come down to the difference

between a gearbox.

It's the different ingredients

that puts into the overall recipe, you know?

Exactly that.

Interesting.

So your car to go forward

would be possibly a manual, but with steels.

Steels, that would be, yeah,

like in the market right now.

For me, based on, you know, like I say,

I think you're not gonna be disappointed

in any way, shape or form,

but for me with the recipe of the things

that I do most in that car,

I reckon a steels and a manual

might be the way forward,

which is, you know, what I'll probably find

is on my 997.1 RS.

Yeah.

In the next.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's really interesting as well,

again, like just with your observations

and about like the light clutch pedal

in 991.2 GT3,

with a 992, it's lighter still.

Is it?

Really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I have to say that with the DOT2 touring

that we've recently driven

and we spoke about last week,

that was perhaps a detail that we didn't mention.

It was so superficially lightweight,

I found myself craving that feedback

that you get from the older stuff,

you know, and again,

what I, because I personally feel,

and it charms with exactly what you're saying, Steve,

you know, whether you go manual or PDK

with your 991.2,

you're still winning because you're in a 991.2.

That is such a good and possibly for me

just like peak GT3.

And the 991.2 over the cars

that followed the 992 generation cars,

they feel and they certainly sound

a lot more mechanical.

So those extra sounds that you're hearing

in that manual car,

which I thought was really interesting,

you've mentioned that.

For me, you lose a little bit of that in the 992.

So, yeah, it's all really interesting,

all these just molecular changes

and the overall experience it delivers.

Yeah, no, and what's interesting,

and this is maybe a question for listeners,

is I continually question this concept

of like, you know, analog,

what does analog driving mean, right?

And, you know, we talk about the 99,

your QT3, right?

Which is the last of the analog GT3s?

And I find that really, really interesting

because that 991.2 GT3

does not feel digital in any way, shape, or form, right?

You can do, you can turn on all of the assists

and drive it around like a golf

and absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But like, round-fructs that I didn't feel like

that was a particularly digital car, right?

You know, you definitely feel that

a little bit more with the PDK

just but that's predominantly because of the paddles.

But the reality is it doesn't feel like a digital GT3,

but of course, it has got systems

keeping you out of the bushes,

but like, it gives you so much feel

even through the E-pass, you've got so much,

but you can feel the edge of grip,

you can feel the balance,

you know where the weight is,

like, you know, and again,

I'm really intrigued to hear others' opinions on this,

like, what actually defines analog?

If a car is talking to you in a way of,

you know where its weight is,

where the edge of grip is,

where the limit of grip is the noise,

all of that stuff, like, you know,

do we really need to be in Andy's SC

to say that this is analog?

And that is an analog experience, right?

I've been there, I've owned that car,

that is pro, you know, yeah,

I agree that you would tick the analog box there,

but where does that disappear?

Because I'm not sure.

Yeah, depends whether you're buying or selling,

doesn't it really?

Yeah, oh yeah.

So let's have that for DNHC

because on WhatsApp there, you know,

what is, what's your, it's a great question, Steve,

what's your personal definition of analog

when it comes to a Porsche sports car,

new or old?

Just going back to the GT3,

so with the manual, are you flat-shifting?

Well, that's interesting,

because yes, I tried it at Thruxton,

and, well, yeah, essentially,

the mechanical sympathy part of my brain

decided that after I tried it,

like trying to keep your right foot buried in the carpet,

whilst you do what naturally would be to lift,

I found it really difficult, really challenging,

and to the point where I tried it a few times,

just like, that's not for me.

And I will, you know, in the same way

that launch control in the PDK,

like, you know, that's just, it's not for me,

like, you know, great, great, great,

but the mechanical sympathy element of that,

and then, you know, on all of that,

you just, then it was the same with the flat-shift,

I just, the stress it caused to try and keep your right foot

buried in the carpet,

at pace, being able to then go up through the box,

flat-shift, yeah, it wasn't for me,

but, you know, fair play, if anyone else,

yeah, if you can do it and get good on you.

I know, like, John Cocker will be able to do that

in a heartbeat, but me, too.

Yeah, I'm so with you, I'm so glad that,

yeah, we've covered this,

because my brain is, and again,

like, with the manual gearbox,

Porsche has built some systems in to allow you to keep up,

bring your talent up, our talent up to the levels

that are possible with that engine,

because I think ultimately we are the weak link,

and that's why a PDK gearbox exists,

because it's the perfect marriage

to extract the full performance from that engine.

And so, yes, you've got the rev matching on the way down,

and then, like, the flat-shifting on the way up.

The rev matching, I'm really happy to use.

When I've had press cars, I've found I've put it,

I've done a Steve and allowed myself

the luxury of doing it myself,

but then sometimes I just think it's just easier with it in,

and if I'm just popping to the shops or something,

and I'm not quite aiming for this apex, whatever,

it's just a really nice way to get that harmony

from the way the power is put onto the road.

The flat-shifting, I'm exactly the same with you.

I want to do it, but my brain is just saying,

don't do it, bro, it's like farting in church.

Like, your brain is going, you can't do it,

you can't do it, brother, don't do it.

But even just currently, like today,

I've been editing the GT3 touring video,

992 Gen 1 V Gen 2,

and I didn't do the flat-shifting in the Dot 2,

which was a manual car,

and even watching the footage back,

it needs it because just that bit

when you're going across the gate

and the revs are shooting skywards,

and it just isn't quite as harmonious.

So it does feedback in, Steve, what you're saying,

you know, if you can work around the car

and, well, work with the car ultimately,

that is quite a talent.

It is quite a talent.

I think it's the way, you know, it's the, it's,

it's anyone that's done any performance driving

or, you know, precision driving, anything like that.

You can drive the car and you think,

okay, that's quite, that's that's that.

And then somebody will get in next to you

and tell you to turn in two meters earlier

or brake earlier or later or like,

like shift up, be down.

When you exit that corner, you're like, oh my God,

that, you feel the difference

and you're absolutely right, those cars,

they make that experience as easy as possible

because I suspect in some of the earlier models,

if you go in a little less perfect,

you're gonna come out a little less perfect the other side,

whereas the 991.2 kind of like,

it definitely assists you there in as much as it makes that,

that's such a balanced car.

Like, I love driving behind one of them

because the way that they eat the road up

and float magic carpet like over the road

when you watch them is you can see how much they're doing

to kind of level out some pretty bumpy roads.

Yeah, yeah.

With them, again, for listeners that aren't O.F.A. with it.

So, and yeah, you talk about like the various safety nets.

In the manual GT3, there isn't a button

to just turn off flat shifting, isn't it?

So when you're in sport mode,

you have to turn off traction

and stability control from memory.

That's right.

Yeah, so Porsche will give you the safety nets

and then it's up for you to take them away really.

Yeah, and what's interesting,

you mentioned like using the auto blip just around town.

Like, actually, I turned that off and I didn't,

because the PDK, it just doesn't,

it sorts the reps out for you up and down the box,

however it's been done.

So it was always doing that for me even when in auto

because I went up the road and round and whatever else.

But I found the manual was proper aggy

because, again, you're in a different rev range,

you're coming, you're at different ratios,

you know, the blip would often be higher.

And actually it's about like, I was that guy,

you know, you'd be pulling up to a round,

and you're like, oh, in the PDK, you didn't get that.

It got really like, it went through five gears

rather than three.

And so every little step was a little bit smaller.

So it was a bum, bum, bum, bum, bum,

like, you know, and you would all have heard the difference.

But yeah, I had to turn it off for that reason alone,

because you're like driving around.

You're only doing 30 coming up to a round,

but it's just...

Making granny's jump.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was proper aggy.

And if you like that, you like that.

But yeah, definitely, I know it's bright red

and the last one had a promise livery on it,

but I don't, you know, and I love a wing.

I love the wing car.

Absolutely love the wing car over the touring.

But it was, you know, I don't actually like to stand out.

That's not my, not my vibe.

You know, when I was a bright red Porsche this time

and the other one had a race livery on it,

but actually I don't like to stand out.

I don't want, I want to be that guy in that car

that's driving, you know, sensibly

and you know, when you're going through town and stuff,

you're not the guy in the sports car being a bell end.

So yeah, I quite, for that reason,

I had to turn off the rev match

because it made me feel like I was making,

presenting myself constantly.

What's the color?

How does that affect your feeling towards the car?

I love it, I love it.

And yeah, like, so I wasn't looking for a white car

previously because I'd had my last four cars

or something, it'd been white.

So it's more like a step change rather than anything.

But I love the car dread.

I fell in love with it driving home.

It made the car, it was the biggest difference

on the drive home from Paragon.

Cause when you're looking out, you're looking over red,

you know, you've got the red, the bonnet line going down

and the older, the wings and stuff.

And it just, it made, if it had been a white car,

I think the cost of change might have felt even more,

if you know what I mean, but the spec inside

is different and it does, you know,

but all of the touch points are the same.

Everything's Alcantara and all of that stuff.

So that didn't feel quite so different.

But the, yeah, but the color outside color did it.

I felt like I've got a colorful car.

And it was, it was, it was really, really nice.

It doesn't lend itself to a, to a motorsport livery

in the same way as the other one did.

So gotta be a bit careful there.

But for Le Mans next year, maybe,

maybe the wheels will go white

and will put something on it just for a bit.

You know, that's, that's definitely a potential.

So I think motorsport, like that's,

the red is tricky to, to pull that off.

So that is, that is rad.

I mean, yeah, like there's, personally for me,

a bit of a crusade this year with like, yeah,

white wheels is just, I think it's back.

It's definitely back, baby.

It's so cool with them.

I mean, obviously, Saltzburg's the obvious,

I guess with red, but it wasn't the

none on one RSR a couple of years back.

There was a Coca-Cola.

Yes.

That was, and did that have the white wheels?

Can't remember.

I can't remember.

I think the Coke one might well have done.

Yeah, it works, doesn't it?

We're, there's, I've seen a few on Instagram

that really, really work.

And I'd probably actually knock something up.

Funnily enough, the first thought that came to mind

was actually to, to Gustavo it

and actually put some, put some,

like three colored stripes in and then,

but I think I should probably go a little bit more motorsport

because it's probably gonna be full of mom.

So I should, I might just,

I might use the same guys that did last time

and did a great job and, and you know,

put something together, but the white wheels are a must.

And with the, that's the beauty of the ceramics

is like, you know, those wheels, you know,

they, that, that is nice that you don't,

you don't get the, you don't get the brake dust

in the same way.

Yeah.

That is definite plus.

And neither of them, actually neither cars

have squeaked overly.

That was the other worry with the ceramics

is that every time you pulled up,

it sounded like you had, you know,

something stuck in the brake,

but it was never a particularly great, you know,

squeaky, squeaky car.

And this one's, this one seems to be fine as well,

which is nice.

Excellent. Excellent.

That's amazing, Steve.

Thank you so much for such insights.

Again, unparalleled out there

and there will be plenty of people thinking,

I'd love a GT3, but should I go manual or PDK?

You have provided a super in-depth

and unequivocal synopsis of both.

So thank you so much for doing that.

Absolute pleasure.

Absolutely.

Just if you're on the,

if you're on the cups, just go and buy one,

find the right car and buy it and enjoy it.

Yeah.

And they're great value at the moment.

You know, they are,

they're a lot of car for, for, for, for the money.

I think they are.

It's interesting because 997s are now beginning

to squeeze the bottom end of that market as well,

you know, and, and, you know,

I've driven both and, and we've all got our favorites

in terms of the generations for lots of different reasons,

but as a performance vehicle, the 991.2 in my view

is, you know, seven years of evolution plus, you know,

on however the difference is between a 997.2 GT3

and the 991.2 GT3, they, you know,

you can feel, I think every year of that

in terms of, of, of outright performance on track.

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

But I think something else that perhaps shouldn't be overlooked

is, and we said it before, that with every GT3,

the level potential capability for performance increases,

but, but they are kind of more usable.

They work the other way as well.

And I think like if I had a 997 GT3 in my garage,

I'd probably want another Porsche

just to balance things out in terms of that lifestyle.

Whereas I think you, you possibly,

you could have a 991.2 GT3

because you're only Porsche.

So whether, you know, it's the weekend coming up,

am I cars and coffeeing or am I track daying?

That is still a great place to be

and a great car that will do both convincingly.

No, you're absolutely right.

It is a one car garage in that, in that case.

You know, if you take the wing,

I've never driven a 991.2 touring,

but I'd love to give it a go on.

I took the white one to, obviously we did some auto barn

when we were over in Germany.

And John and I could feel the exact moment

with the resonance in the car

when the downforce kicked in.

You got to a certain point

and you could feel that the whole car

just suddenly settled in, like it went, oh, here we go.

I'm home, you know, and it just felt like the car,

you know, yeah, sucked down.

And I had the same thing when I took it to Milbrook

and we were on the bull and go in

and I had that car up to 180 something round there.

And it felt unbelievable.

You can feel, you know, it's so unusual to feel downforce,

you know, and I'd love to experience that with the touring

because it's got, you know,

the numbers aren't massively different.

They're just done differently, right?

And, you know, yeah, I'm a tar, I love the wing,

but to be able to feel, if that feels different

when it kicks in, you know,

does the downforce come in smoother?

But on that car, you felt it, you hit,

I can't remember what speed it was,

but it's about 130 modern hours.

I mean, it just suddenly just sucked down.

OK, so I've just worked out what the next car is then.

Yeah, it's a touring, isn't it?

With manual gearbox and...

And steels.

Steels.

Baxies, dog bed, living in a dream.

We've got it lined up.

Yeah, yeah, there's not many to choose from

with this kind of dream, so, yeah.

Amazing, amazing.

I wouldn't want one, actually, for the reason is

that I'd be the guy that took it from being 46 left to 45,

you know, I mean, I want that responsibility.

There's plenty of wingcars around.

If one goes through a bush, it needs to be

supported off the lot, that's OK, but the touring's not so much.

You'd get a Christmas card from the other owners

because you'd be increasing the value of their cars.

10 grand on ours, lovely work, cheers, Steve.

Exactly, exactly.

Amazing, all right, we'll wrap it up then.

Steve, thank you, mate, much appreciated,

and have a great weekend.

Thanks, Steve.

See you soon, take care.

Bye, guys. Cheers, mate, boy.

See you next Friday.

So that was Steve, such a valued member

of the Drivennaught Hidden Collective as well.

It's always a pleasure to have him on my radio.

He's so good at articulating that sort of stuff, isn't he?

Such a dude, such a dude.

Thanks, Steve.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Which would you go for, manual PDK?

Are you with the same viewer, Steve?

Cool, what a great question that is.

I think I, definitely with a touring,

definitely would, obviously it has to be manual,

there was no PDK for 911.2,

absolutely would have the steels, absolutely.

If it was a track car, I would go PDK.

Okay.

I think I'd go PDK anyway, if I'm honest.

I'm a big believer that we are a huge weak link

in, with that four-liter engine.

So it needs PDK to extract the best of it.

So I would have a GT3 with PDK and ceramics,

and then I would also have just like a base Carrera manual

that just relies on you screaming the life out of the engine

and doing all the rowing yourself for me.

I would treat it as a Porsche Motorsport car,

that GT3, you know.

How about you?

I'd still be manual, just yeah.

Flappies, nah, not for me.

You know, it's going to be the standard answer for me.

Boring.

No, that's good, we like what we like.

Indeed.

Also, I am really interested to hear what analogue means

to me individually.

Yeah, yeah.

Where does that cut-off point come

in the different series of cars?

Yeah.

Yeah, are you like first musings from Andy B,

what does analogue mean to you?

I think I would pick 997.1 just about still feels it.

I think the .2, some systems start coming in

and I'm sort of backing out a bit there for me.

Okay, so yeah, you can pinpoint a generation.

Yeah.

What were you thinking?

How were you thinking of quantifying it?

Just in terms of characteristics, I guess.

What does it mean?

First, for some, someone might say,

to me, analogue is a 911 that's being called by air.

To them, the idea of a water-cooled car,

well, that's modern,

and modern is the antithesis of analogue.

That's an interesting thing, isn't it?

Because talking about electric cars,

I always look at my i3 as an analogue electric car.

Yeah, okay.

But that's got lots of systems on there,

there's lots of traction control,

there's electric power steering.

But it's, yeah, you have to, when I drive it,

I work around a lot of sort of not bits that are shit,

but bits that are maybe not ideal.

Okay, that's my reference of analogue is,

it's not driving itself,

it's, I feel like I'm still driving

and I'm having to drive around a few weird bits

that not everybody could drive around.

So you might get somebody else that would drive that car

and they would see it as a disaster

because it's got suspension

that doesn't quite do what it should do,

but I like to have that so you kind of drive around it.

I'm not sure that makes much sense.

You're looking at me quizzically.

Well, I'm just thinking, I have driven that car

and I definitely would not describe it as analogue personally

because, yeah, like it's a two-pedal car

that predominantly is an electric car.

And I know you said for an electric car, it's analogue,

which- Yeah, for an electric car, yeah.

Yeah, maybe, I mean, you could argue

that that is actually a one-pedal car

because when you lift off the gas,

it's already kind of slowing down.

It's a bit like a dodger in that sort of way.

But, no, I mean, I started this week

driving one of the most analogue cars

you could possibly hope to drive.

It was a 911e at Williams Crawford.

So 1970, it had like the throttle adjuster

in between the front seats, you know, there is-

That's the car that's not been restored, isn't it?

That's it, yeah.

Yeah, oh, yes.

Yeah, I mean, that was, that was,

it was really cool.

It's really, really cool.

I did enjoy it, and as I've kind of saying on the video,

which was the reason for the drive,

that a 911e is for me the sweet spot

for those long bonnet cars

because the S is like a GT3 from back in the day.

Pretty unapologetic in what it's trying to be.

The TO always just find a bit breathless.

I know people bang on about them being the lightest

because they're like the most paired back

as the entry-level car.

But just the way that, yeah,

they're just, it's just an underpowered flat six in a way.

The E is just really talky and really easy to drive.

So if you're wanting a long bonnet car

that you could use as often as possible.

Yeah.

Within the scope of it being what it is.

I think the E's the place to be,

but that is, that is to me, analog.

Then when I think of your I3, yeah, I'm like that,

that's not right.

So do you know where I'd put it?

And like thinking about this,

so I think this would help in terms of

where you can apply to generations

and Porsche lineage and everything else.

To me, definition of an analog car

is it has a mechanical handbrake.

So that encapsulates 997.2

because that has got the most loveliest six speed gearbox.

And obviously 991 did away with that

and it had a seven speed

which just isn't anywhere near as enjoyable.

The feel is completely different as well.

And it had the E brake.

And I mean, to this day when I'm jumping in on

on ones, twos, I still couldn't tell you

which way takes the handbrake on

and which way puts it off.

So to me, if it's got a mechanical handbrake,

a normal handbrake.

That is a very good call.

It's an analog car to me.

Yeah, I'm just going back to a holiday

that we had earlier this year

and we had a Volkswagen R, what was it?

R-Rock or something, T-Rock or something like that?

T-Rock, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's still got a, that was a brand new car.

You know, it's a 2025 car.

But that still had a handbrake.

And I liked that.

And it still had a key with a, you know,

a flip out thing that came out

and went into a thing in the column.

Yeah, yeah, lovely.

So it felt kind of old school and analog.

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Well said. Excellent, excellent.

Well, yeah, let's see, let's see what everybody else thinks.

Because again, there's no hard and fast rule.

It's just all, yeah, personal opinion.

But for me, if it's, I mean, imagine this now

at Cars and Coffees, you know,

oh, I've got the mechanical handbrake.

You know, it's a pre-brake model.

It'll happen.

They're out there, folks.

They're out there.

Right, AOB.

It's also your initials, by the way.

It is. AOB, AOB.

That's me.

Shall we do a gem of the week?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did you say you've got one?

I have got one.

It was one I threw out onto the WhatsApp groups this week.

I think it's already been sold, but hey,

it's an interesting car and it's, I really like it.

Yeah, if I had 52 and a half thousand pounds

sitting in my bank account,

not needing to do anything else,

I think I might have made a trip down

to Harbour Cars this week.

So it's a Cayman 981 3.4 GTS manual

in PTS Riviera Blue.

It's a beauty.

What a great looking car that is.

Yeah, if you need one, then give them a shout.

I'm pretty sure it's sold, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, that is a lovely car.

And you know how certain colors work with certain cars.

I think if that was on a 911 equivalent,

it'd be too much blue.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's a good size for that color, isn't it?

Quite great.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely lovely looking thing.

Real beauty.

So down at Harbour Cars and therefore coming

with 12 months bumper to bumper warranty.

It has indeed.

Mega stuff, mega stuff.

Check that out alongside a host of other cars,

quality cars for sale on the Nummers marketplace.

Yeah.

Shall we do a spread of the love?

Yeah.

I've got a spread of the love this week.

A video by that guy from Sheffield that lives over in LA.

What the F is I rock.

Don't know if you've seen it yet,

but it's Magnus has put together this little 21 minute,

22 minute video going through the history of I rock.

And it's not just the Porsche I rock,

it's all the different I rock cars over the years.

And he's he's a I'm not sure where he is.

He must be at one of the maybe it's Willow Springs

or I don't know, he's talking to lots of people

that seem to be in the know,

but it's a real good video.

Going through the history.

I didn't realize there were so many different cars

that were I rock cars.

And it's quite interesting in the history

of some of the US cars when they they rebodied them.

So the one year there was like Chevy's

and then the next year it was Ford's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But what they did is they just basically

took the body off of it,

put a new wings like doors and everything.

But the roof line, still the Chevy,

even though it's a Ford,

but and then it's got the Chevy engine in it as well

with a Ford badge on the front.

There's all sorts of weird shit that went on over the years.

So yeah, it was an interesting watch.

Give it a watch.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We'll definitely take a look at that.

The whole like premise of I rock

and the concept of it fascinates me really.

It's, I know there are like modern interpretations of it,

but it should be more popular,

I think what it is, to be honest.

Particularly when you think of like other sports,

that's kind of it's in vogue at the moment

as to put the champion of one discipline

against a champion of another.

Well, we walk back with racing.

Let's put so many great drivers in the same car

and see what happens.

Yeah, yeah.

It's brilliant watch.

I've got a book actually on I rock

that I must I've read fully yet.

Just had a little flick through it.

But yeah, I think that goes through similar sort of stuff.

I'm gonna dig that out and have a look.

Yeah, sounds good.

Sounds really, really good.

Excellent.

Have you got any spread the loves?

Yeah, I have.

I for my spread the love this week,

I'm going to give a shout out to Elliot Brown watches,

which Andy is a fine watchmaker based in the same town

as you and I down here in Paul Dorsett.

Good local goodness.

Yeah, yeah.

Great great guys Ian Elliot and Alex Brown

that formerly worked at Animal.

And then yeah, in I think just over 10 years ago,

maybe yeah between 10 and 15 years ago

created the brand that we know as Elliot Brown.

Fantastic watches.

I've worn my blocks worth for about 10 years now.

Blocks worth being a small village

just outside Paul in Dorsett again.

So I love the story behind the brand.

There are certain synergies I think as well

between Elliot Brown and Porsche.

For the example, they're high on performance, rugged,

but not showy.

They're just kind of understated,

brilliantly engineered products.

Yeah.

So definite synergy between the two brands.

Also at passing resemblance as well,

the Elliot Brown logo,

you could skew that for a Porsche shield potentially,

I would say.

But so yeah, go and check out all of the fantastic watches

that Elliot Brown do for men and women

at ElliotBrownWatches.com.

Very good.

DNHC Admin?

Yes, we didn't do it last week.

So I'm gonna get in

because we've got a lot of new members

that I need to give a shout out to.

First up is Steve Manclow,

who is based in Guernsey,

driving a 991 GT3,

which is very apt, isn't it?

Given we've been talking about today.

He's been viewing your YouTube content

and listening to our podcast for a good while.

So he's joined up.

Well, thank you, Steve, and we can only apologise.

Neil Patterson,

based just west of Edinburgh,

in a little town called Bones.

He is currently driving a 987 Cayman S,

being following us on YouTube and Instagram for ages.

So again, great to have you aboard.

Yeah, what a lovely car for those super roads around the lowlands.

Oh, yeah. Oh, makes me jealous.

That does Andrew Baker,

based in Newport in South Wales.

He drives a 981 GT4

and Dylan Davis,

based in Flitwick in Bedfordshire.

He has got a heavily modified 2018 Carrera T,

which is yellow, which is Simon...

Is it Simon Gwynne that's now got the 992 T?

Yes.

Yeah, that's his old car.

OK, yeah, Simon being the chief T fluffer.

Indeed, very much so.

That has got...

I think when Simon had it,

it had a load of litchfield upgrades on it.

And since then,

Dylan's gone even further.

I can't remember what he said.

It's got power-wise.

I think it's stupid.

400 and something around the...

Like, high 400s.

Absolutely mental.

Crazy man.

And I'm going to give you one more.

That's Richard Shepard, who is down in Cornwall.

And he says we have to blame, actually,

for the latest car that he's bought.

So, 997 GTS, he has recently acquired,

and he was watching the videos

where both you and I were mucking around with...

I think you did a video which was PDK vs. manual GTSs,

and we also did that S vs. GTS video.

So apparently those two videos were the fort

for him actually making that purchase of his 997 GTS.

Well, I'm glad our journalism could help point people

in the right direction to get the right car for them,

because, as we've very well discovered on today's episode,

there are lots of cars out there,

but finding the right one for us is the tricky bit,

and also the fun bit too.

Absolutely.

Just say that Richard's also got a 964,

which was in one of your videos in a toy shop tour.

So I think he traded his 964 in for the 997

down at Williams Corford.

Ah, very nice indeed, very nice indeed.

Which 964 was that?

I think it was a target, red target maybe?

Okay.

Maybe.

God's red, yeah, God's red, 964 target.

Ah, okay, yeah, very cool, very, very cool.

Very nice.

Well, a big welcome to everybody,

all our new members in the Drivenot Hidden Collective.

Yeah, you are so, so welcome,

and look forward to getting stuck

into the many different activities and events

and general shenanigans that we've got coming up

for you over the next six months,

and in I recently communicated those internally

via our own Drivenot Hidden Collective podcast,

encompassing road trips, track days, online seminars,

and even some Christmas beers coming up.

There's a lot going on within the collective.

Yeah, Christmas beer six Friday.

Yeah, and just a great way,

not necessarily the beers,

but everything else we've got going on,

hopefully is a great way to connect

with like-minded people while enjoying

our passion for Porsche sports cars.

Absolutely.

Right, shall we wrap it up?

Absolutely, that's another stellar episode

of Nomics Radio.

We've got two more before we wrap up this series

and indeed the year on Nomics Radio.

Thanks for all your listens and downloads.

We really, really appreciate all the love that we've had,

and yeah, two more to go,

and then we'll roll into another year.

Hey, it's Christmas.

I can't believe we're saying that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Catch you next week.

See you next week.

Manual v PDK GT3: which is best?

About this episode

Porsche 911 GT3

Pirelli P-Zero

PDK

Porsche Taycan

Porsche 987.2

Mantai Racing

Porsche GT3

downforce

Porsche Cayenne

0 to 60 time

Porsche 718 Cayman GT4

carbon ceramic brakes

heel and toe rev matching

auto blip

GT car

left foot brake

sequential gearbox

4.0-liter engine

paddles

naturally aspirated engine

manual gearbox

left foot braking

nose lift

torque

lightweight flywheel

RS

Cup 2 tires

heel-toe downshifting

clutch

Porsche Cayman

dual mass flywheel

Porsche 911

Porsche Carrera T

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from 9WERKS Radio : The Porsche and Car Podcast