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Mr. Subaru, Check Engine Chuck, and Brandon Sloan Talk TikTok, YouTube, and DIY pt. 2
Mr. Subaru, Check Engine Chuck, and Brandon Sloan Talk TikTok, YouTube, and DIY pt. 2
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About this episode
A deep dive into the challenges and experiences of automotive technicians, focusing on the importance of diagnostics and mentorship in the industry. The conversation highlights the frustrations of both professionals and DIYers, emphasizing the need for mutual respect and understanding. Notable guests share personal stories about their journeys, the evolution of their diagnostic processes, and the impact of social media on the automotive community. The episode also addresses the industry's struggle to retain new talent and the importance of fostering a supportive environment for apprentices.
Topics:
diagnostic processes
mentorship
DIY challenges
social media impact
industry retention
respect for technicians
load testing
communication barriers
apprenticeship experiences
health and safety in the industry
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Find our guests online!
Mr. Subaru | YouTube | TikTok
Check Engine Chuck | YouTube | TikTok
Brandon Sloan/Performance Transmissions LLC | YouTube | TikTok
Mr. Subaru, Check Engine Chuck, and Brandon Sloan join Jeff again this week. Mr. Subaru highlights the complexities of assisting DIYers, emphasizing the limitations of remote diagnostics. Brandon Sloan discusses the ongoing challenges of mentorship and apprenticeship, sharing personal experiences with both successful and problematic trainees. Check Engine Chuck addresses the need for higher labor rates to attract and retain skilled technicians, stressing the importance of transparent communication with consumers.
00:00 Check manuals and data first for troubleshooting.
05:46 Used to have patience for teaching comments.
09:21 Discussed GM vehicle basics; lacked foundational knowledge.
10:14 Update the PCV valve and software to fix the issue.
14:22 Frustration with customer's dismissive attitude towards repairs.
18:57 Understanding repair costs through detailed explanations.
22:05 Answered $5 TikTok follower's Camaro question.
25:24 Knowledge empowers consumers and enhances understanding and trust.
27:20 Amateur guesses are ineffective; scan codes for diagnosis.
31:53 Employee left due to denied raise request.
33:48 A tech claims don't match actual skills.
37:21 Industry struggles to nurture next-generation technicians.
41:39 The industry indirectly caused my father's death.
45:30 Mentorship ensures continuity and respect for emerging generations.
48:30 Industry must change to effectively retain youth.
51:17 Excited about meaningful conversation and potential influence.
Follow/Subscribe to the show on social media!
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jeffcompton7
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheJadedMechanic
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100091347564232
Filter:
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Jeep Cherokee
"...y at the Chrysler dealer I'm working at in the 99 Cherokee, 4 liter. He's got oxygen sensor codes. Then my a..."
Car
Kia Forte
"Okay. And it was a Kia owner has a Kia Forte. Just asked if I worked on. I think it was front ..."
Car
Chevrolet Camaro
"...first followers on TikTok. And he brought his ZL1 Camaro in because he couldn't get an answer from the ser..."
Car
Volkswagen I
"Right. And I let him go. So then we brought in the next one. But I did let the first apprentice know kind of what had all transpired and him going on to Volkswagen. I was going to stop that. It was just an eye opener for him to go do what he loves with the brand that he loves. But if it was something else, I kind of would have went more to bat to say, hey, let's get him some more money. Right? Yeah."
Check manuals and data first for troubleshooting.
Used to have patience for teaching comments.
Discussed GM vehicle basics; lacked foundational knowledge.
Update the PCV valve and software to fix the issue.
Frustration with customer's dismissive attitude towards repairs.
Understanding repair costs through detailed explanations.
Answered $5 TikTok follower's Camaro question.
Knowledge empowers consumers and enhances understanding and trust.
Amateur guesses are ineffective; scan codes for diagnosis.
Employee left due to denied raise request.
A tech claims don't match actual skills.
Industry struggles to nurture next-generation technicians.
The industry indirectly caused my father's death.
Mentorship ensures continuity and respect for emerging generations.
Industry must change to effectively retain youth.
Excited about meaningful conversation and potential influence.
Select text to request an explanation
The biggest thing that bothers me about my side of the industry is that they've been doing it for 40 or 50 years, but they can't understand a hydraulic circuit at some times.
They do not.
Same thing on my end.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They know about repair kits and certain things to look for, bulletins, things that ATRA puts out, stuff that's in the ATSG manual, updated handbooks, information that is there. But it's the simplest questions that I get, see that, I see that get posted and I'm like, did you go to the manual first? Did you look through? Do you have access to all data? Do you have access to any type of service information to try to get there before? Because if we try to talk about this over the phone, it's going to get really hard, like even in a comment section, going back and forth. And I did it with another major supplier that was a part of the helpline and the physical shop. Two units back to back, both acting the same way. But hey, we're sitting here looking at the one in the truck. I'm like, I don't think it has anything to do with the transmission. Under wide open throttle, it'll stay stuck in first gear and bounce off the rev limiter. But I'm sitting here looking at the data and I made a video on it.
I don't know the end result to the vehicle because it got so in depth that it's out of our hands unless we're there. We only give as much information as we can. But what we require is that you have gone through the full diagnostic process before you ask a question, you have reached your limit of your technical knowledge and you have gone through the service information to determine what possibilities can be happening here before you even ask a question. That's what I feel.
So that's where I came from all these years ago in the groups that were started up with a lot of DIYers was that there was no effort made from a diagnostic standpoint. And that's what it goes back to for me is it's like, if you come to me at the end of the day, I say DIYer. But if you're a really sharp DIYer and if you've tried some things and done some tests, I'm going to help you, man. It isn't at the end of the day well, you're not in the boys club, so piss on you. That's not what it's about. It's about the fact that I want to see some effort. Because then if I want to see some effort, you probably will respect what I have had to do because you've done it as well. You know.
And that's what it comes from for me. If you've got. I called you a long time ago. Not really called you out, but it just. I made a comment. You love your power probe. That's not my tool.
Oh, I love it.
Yeah. And I'm like, you went and tested something and I put right in the comment, you know.
Yeah.
So you unplugged it and you touched the tool and it shows you got a power there. But do you really, Chuck? And here's the thing. Now, knowing you better now you understand load loaded tests and all that kind of stuff and you trust the audible. My hearing so shot. I don't trust it. Right. But now look at you now you've gone and built a tool.
So that's the wild thing.
Yeah.
Is until two years ago, I always trusted the audible.
Yeah.
And not until discussing it more with Cody. Two years ago is when I became load king.
Yeah.
Everything gets load tested.
Yeah.
Load test, everything.
Yeah.
Because you can't trust any other source to know that you have complete power or complete ground required for that circuit. And two years ago I did. I did not. That was not a normal regimen of my diagnostic process. Now I'm building load cages.
Yeah.
But that's the change that I saw in my own process. And the way that most technicians can better themselves is to change their process. And now it's load testing is king.
Cody and I have been friends for 10 years.
Cody's the one that put me onto that.
Yeah, he is. And again, because it's like at one point I was just a dumb person in there that had made a lot of mistakes. But I was always trying to learn better.
We all were.
Yeah. And so for him to be able to like to guide you, I feel like in a roundabout way down the family tree kind of thing. I've helped what I have shared with Cody or Cody shared with me get to you. I think that's pretty awesome.
It is awesome. That's the power of this platform.
Yeah. Yeah. We're not out here to somebody that's on the platform that maybe we don't completely align with. We're not here. This is not like a group that we're out here trying to change Everything and attack the people that are not in this room right now. That's what I've come to find with TikTok and I've come to found with that with back to her video Vermillion. It was never about trying to attack her. Right.
It was just a situation of I got triggered by a word, you know. But if all of us in the platform could like dial that back just a little bit to where it's like we don't immediately jump down Robert's throat.
The punching bag.
Right.
I used to have more patience. I used to have more patience on how to go after a certain comment, use a short and use it as a teaching moment and having this voice more relaxed into it and just discussing some things. And it had nothing to do with about the comment, but a portion of it was. It has to have context in the comment to do a comment reply with a video. So turning it into a teaching substance. It's just like the four years ago some kid gets on the Internet and tags all of us in it. This was before you were on TikTok and Chuck, before Chuck was on TikTok that he had left the dealership life. He's complaining about how much he's making an hour and he's not moving up and progressing.
And now he's working out of his garage at his mom and dad's house and he is pulling the industry down. And it got Hunt probably half a million views at the time when everybody was kind of going viral over a hard subject. And it took me three hours. Three hours. Now it takes me days. I have to come down. I have to think about it.
You felt like it wasn't bringing the industry down or.
No. That it was.
Yeah.
I'm with you.
Because it was entirely false. His subject, his situation could have been rectified a different way by getting him in contact with the right people like us and getting him involved into the industry. And there are people that are there to help, that do care, that are doing the right thing to help change it.
So the upcoming guest that I have and I haven't had a chance to schedule with him yet because we're leading up to. This is drag.
Yep.
Right.
Yep.
Now, like, it's so funny, the algorithm. And like I said to him when he posted that, it popped up there, like when he tagged me in the J.D. mcKinney Boston, I'm like, I made the response. I was wondering what happened to you.
Right. You see his videos.
Yeah. You see him as at a Nissan dealer. And it's like, because I'm not that far from removed at my stint at the Nissan dealer. So he's out there working on some stuff that I've been through and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, and I'm like, what happened to the guy? And then I see he's another casualty of this industry.
Yeah. And you know what's wild is we're in, you know, multiple Snapchat groups and stuff like that. And at one point, me and Brandon were in a group with three other techs that have now left this industry. And again, like Brandon said, I've only been doing this for two and a half years. The TikTok thing. I've only had Snapchat for like two years.
Yeah.
So. And it was, you know, the TikTok mechanics that got me into it. But those. Those three guys that were in this big group with us were in a separate group where it was me and these three guys. And we started this group as three mechanic or four mechanics. I'm the only mechanic left in that group.
Isn't that crazy?
All three of them out of the industry. One was independent. Drac was dealer, and another owned his own shop.
And I was getting frustrated a lot with the constant, hey, what's going on? What do you think about doing this? And it was more time consuming to go back and forth, back and forth over the phone, but. And it finally took a toll on me and I snapped. I snapped on two of them. And then finally I'm having a conversation with one of them later, which is Drac, and his name is Eric.
Okay.
And him and I sat and had this long conversation about a GM vehicle. Okay. This is something simple we can just run through. He doesn't know anything about GM vehicles. I can go over the system really quickly. And I asked him, I said, so have we done fuel, fire, compression, something simple, basic? And he said, I have never in my entire career heard that term. And then I stepped back and I was like, these guys don't know.
That's because Nissan's repair, or I shouldn't say repair procedure.
Their service process.
Their service process is you have a bad mass. You have a P0101. And there's no TSP about reprogramming. Let's 101 is a bad example, but we'll use it anyway. Yeah, yeah. Substitute known good mass airflow sensor.
Wow.
Did the code come back really?
Replace PCI part swap in the flow chart.
That is literally the chart.
Yeah. Yep, 100%. Do you have any of those when that bulletin came out, the customers would drive in and they got a brand new aftermarket mass airflow sensor in it, right? And I run through that bulleted and 90, I'll tell you right now, 95% of the time you put the updated PCV valve in it and you put the software in it and the mass airflow is fine, bro problem at all. What happens is the first thing is some dick DIY with a code reader goes out and he says, you got a mass airflow and they go down to the AutoZone or where I come from, they go to Canadian Tire and they go buy a standard echelon mass airflow sensor for 80 bucks and they put it in the car and then they go over to the deal and then send them over to the dealer and go, my sister's car is coming into the dealer because it needs a PCM because it's got a, a new mass airflow and it's still coding for 101. I don't want to pay more than a half an hour dying. And I walk over to the bulletin, pull it up, go out and say we're going to change because it's got a orange PCB in it, should have a black one. And we're going to update the software. And the third step will be, if we have to, we'll clean the throttle body.
Now you're like, why would you not want to clean the throttle body? You ever clean a throttle body on the Nissan? You know hard it is to get it to idle after so they'll peg to the moon. Man, they were so bad. You guys are laughing. We in the dealership would see it happen. And this is a dealership. Oui tools. You used to sit there and rev at 3000rpm in idle and you'd have to start unplugging coils to bring the thing down. So can we learn new idle speed?
That's wild, isn't it?
You're thinking of such a well engineered car. It's incredible.
You're thinking of another TSB which it goes to show how well engineered they are. So I didn't even know about the PCV one. I'm talking about the mass Air one. There's a updated mass Air that gets replaced for the PL101 and a new ECU part number which is the software number for it, that that goes with the new mass Air. If you don't do that PCM update, the car is not going to react with the new mass air correctly.
Right? So it always drove Me nuts, going back to the Dr. Wire, where they think because of one little code that they all of a sudden I. They should devalue what I do. They should be like, get a free pass to pay for a diagnostic process because some $50 code reader told them something. They think they're an expert. They think they're me. You're not me.
I'm understanding where you're coming from. More now I understand you as at the dealer, the DIY coming in, trying to diagnose. I deal with a different kind of DIY in my. Sure.
Because of the car brand.
Right.
It's a little more of enthusiast.
I don't know if it's the brand. I think it's how the audience comes to me versus how they come to you. They come to me seeking information, help. A lot of times in desperation for you, they came thinking they already figured it out and you're the guy that's going to try to bone them.
Yeah.
So I think it's a different perspective how they look at you versus me in those scenarios, and that the attitude they approach you with is different. And then how you react to that attitude they come with is different because most of them are coming to me asking for help, not expecting anything from me. When they come to you, it was, I need help, and this guy's out to get me.
You all want to know what the customer was that changed my path. In probably 2006, a guy pulls up to the service bay at the Chrysler dealer I'm working at in the 99 Cherokee, 4 liter. He's got oxygen sensor codes. Then my advisor pages me up front. He says, can you scan this real quick? Why would he have an oxygen sensor code? He doesn't understand why he's got an oxygen sensor code. And the guy stand there. So it's a Cherokee. It's got every light bar on it, no lift.
But every doodad that you could screw in there with a sheet metal screw is all over this car. And I start to talk to him about it. I said, where did you get your oxygen sensors from? I went down to the parts store. Like, that's how he immediately starts to talk to me with the attitude. Now, I'm not getting paid to look at this car. I'm helping out this advisor. And he says, I went down to the parts store. And I said, what brand did you buy? Oh, I don't fucking remember what brand I bought.
What does it matter? An oxygen sensor is an oxygen sensor. And I said, well, if you bought a Bosch, he says, Listen, anybody can unscrew a friggin oxygen sensor and screw another one in. If you can't tell me what's wrong with my jeep, I'll be gone. And I took unplugged the thing and I said, sir, you know more than I do. Have a nice day. And from then on, that person with that kind of attitude, like hell I'm ever going to see you get something from me. And you know what it is? You can say, well, that one person poisoned you for everyone else. Nah man, that's the majority right there of the attitude that they have.
That's the typical DIYer as we'll throw $1,000 worth of parts at a car because the wire is broken. You think I feel sympathy for them? How much must they hate me? That they'll spend $1,000 in parts that won't fix a car before they'll come and pay me 200 bucks or you, or you, or you to find the broken wire? How much must they hate us now? Did we as an industry earn that, that distrust? You're fucking right we did.
Yep.
But you know what? I don't care. That was somebody else, right? And you can say, well that was somebody else's. Now in your comment section asking you a question, they're not me, they're not us, they don't do what we do. They haven't had to go through that person that is so hateful of a professional technician. They maybe got that technician on the worst day and they made a mistake. Misdiagnosed. Who here is going to put your hand up and say you never misdiagnosed a car? No hands going up.
I do it.
All of us have.
If you haven't recently did a video.
On one, if you haven't, you haven't done much. So when they come at us with that hate and that vile ignorant attitude, you're not me. And I'm not going to help you think in your little box that you're as good as me because you're not. I'm the one that has the scars from what this industry has done to me. I'm not talking physical, I'm talking mental and all of that. You don't have those. Now. It doesn't mean that you can't unscrew a wrench like unscrew a bolt with a wrench.
Not saying you can, but that's not what I do. It's not what you do. It's not what you do. It's not what you do. You're not usually that's where it comes from for me. And if people are listening, if it starts to make sense why I'm not telling everybody tomorrow when they log in and they want to ask you a question. But you've seen it. Some guy posted one of yours the other day and I mentioned this to you.
They said they're asking you, do you work on transmissions, Brandon? And I'm sitting here, my head's exploding, going, how much do they know about you as a follower? If they even have to ask that question, how vetted are vested in you as a person?
I know the comment you're talking about because I lost my mind in that video. He is the top commenter when I was at Troy's.
Okay.
And it was a Kia owner has a Kia Forte. Just asked if I worked on. I think it was front wheel drive units. Because most of the content that I have is not on front wheel drive units.
Right.
But yes, we do.
A car is a car. Transmission is a transmission.
Yeah.
And my take.
And in context, I can see maybe what he was trying to say because he left context out.
Yeah.
He's not, we're not even talking about a key in that particular video. He's just, it's the same as you. I say these guys just blurt it whenever they want. You're talking about something important going on in your life. And like, hey, Chuck, my truck's doing this. Could you tell me?
And I'm like, on live stream, motherfucker.
Stay in your life.
In the comments too, Jeff has literally commented on people's comments on my post and saying thank you from detracting from the entire point he's trying to make in this video right now.
Yeah, exactly.
Right. But here's, here's my take on that too though, is that, well, I know you see, I know you see the DIY guys that way and stuff like that, but a lot of average consumers have become on the brink of DIY because of all the platforms that are out there. And the thing that I keep saying to people at this particular event that we're at is, you know, because obviously people are coming up to me and Brandon, Mr. Subaru, and everybody's been nothing but polite. I want to make that very clear.
It's been awesome.
And every time that I've been, you know, thanked for what I do, I just, I always go back to the notion that every mechanic that sees this, it's helpful for them. But every consumer that sees this, even though it's a three to ten minute long video, when I say that it just took me five hours to find this broken wire. I feel like it makes it easier for them to understand when their mechanic says, this is going to cost you random number $660. Okay, what was it? A broken wire that they have less of a chance of going, what do you mean you're charging me $660 to fix a broken wire? I'm charging you $660 to find that broken wireless because somebody else would have put $1,800 module in it.
But at the end of it all, we have to hope that they watch that part of the video and they appreciate it. Because otherwise the scenario is I watched you diagnose a car and it was six minutes. It's editing.
Right?
Right. It was way more than six minutes.
Right.
Or 10 minutes or whatever the video length. But you know what I'm saying? They think because we keep putting it out there for their benefit that anyone that wants to charge two hours is ripping them off.
I try to be very transparent about the time that I'm out there in my videos because I realize that I get comments about that. A lot of times I get when people ask me comments about how much something costed, I get, I give them the real amount that I charge that place, and sometimes it's $800. And I don't mind putting that comment out there because that's the way that it went.
I keep coming back to the fact that, like, my favorite person in this industry, Paul Danner, you see the comments that are in his comment threads, and I'm thinking, like, if that guy can get it, like, where people are hating on him.
Yeah, I mean, I believe it, but I just.
I can't see how it won't matter ever what I do. The trolls are always going to be in amongst me, but at the same time, you notice a lot of them don't even ask me stupid questions. I don't know if some of them are watching the podcast, even know if I'm still a mechanic or not. First of all, yeah, hell, I am. Second of all, they're not asking me because they either think I'm dumb. Well, they figured out by now I ain't ever gonna give you the answer. That's not what this is about. If I wanted to give answers, I'd have a second channel right when I'm on here talking about the industry.
If you're not in the industry and you want to listen, cool. But don't come on here and think this is identifix, that's not what it's about. Identifix costs a hundred bucks a month. You want an answer, go sign up.
Try 230.
Well, so if that's what you want as an answer, go pay for that.
Yeah, and I'll get people that say that, hey, can I, Can I venmo you$5 right quick just to ask a question. And I've gotten somebody to, to venmo me or paypal $50 to ask a question and I don't respond.
Well, yeah, if you try to judge my value on your own and offer me $5 for information, you're way less likely to get it than if you just ask for that information and don't try to pay me $5.
Yeah, yeah.
There's only one question that I've ever answered for $5, and it was one of my first followers on TikTok. And he brought his ZL1 Camaro in because he couldn't get an answer from the service drive. He couldn't get an answer from my wife because she didn't know, the service manager didn't know. And they tried to look through the owner's manual and the sublet manual that comes with the vehicle as far as their first oil change or any services that may be due. And Toby had told me about the conversation with the consumer. And then we come home and we're sitting there eating dinner and all of a sudden I get this either cash app, Venmo, Venmo request. And. And I see who it is and it's got his name on it.
I'm like, this sounds like the guy that you're telling me that you had a conflict with or not? Not a conflict, but a question being asked as a consumer in the service drive. And I was like, is his name Chase? And she said, yeah, that's his name. So I answered the question. I said, I don't care what the manufacturer tells you. Do a break in service 500 miles on the rear differential. Because I bet you if I pull the plug on it, it's going to be full of break in material, clutch material. And sure enough, he brought it into the dealership. He came and shook my hand and I showed him.
And when I pulled the drain plug out on social media, over 3 million people saw it within one hour and it was full of metal. And I said, I don't care what the manufacturer tells you. I don't care what's in your handbook. Break in oil still goes into effect. I don't care if it's 1980 or 2024.
Yeah, pretty cool, man, honestly.
And now he's friends, he's been over to the house, he's, he's came over, he came over this fourth of July and he's brought his Camaro. If it's something out of his scope that he can't do, he can't go to Charmed Ly to find information for DIYers that's free to the public there, then he'll bring it to us. That's awesome.
It is pretty cool. Now how many people immediately jumped in that comment thread said, what a piece of shit.
Of course that's, that's the Internet.
Yeah, that's what would drive me nuts.
So back to what Chuck was saying earlier about people appreciating what he does through what he's showing him. I've found that out that there's, there's a lot of nuts and bolts videos I do like. All right, we're going to change valve body, a TR5 80 CVT. We're going to take the top off and it's this many 10 millimeter headed bolts and we're going to unplug this wiring harness and we're going to do this and then we're going to torque these and this pattern to this. There's a lot of those step by step, basically visual shot manuals. But then I've already started doing this series like video I just did Sunday, the CVT and the common failure points, why they fail, how they fail and what it means for you. And a lot of people have come on and said, well, I appreciate now why they charge what they do or understand what this failure is. Now I understand why they're charging me this or what they go through at the dealership so they can appreciate.
A lot of people have commented specifically that, that I don't work on cars. I never planned to, but I watched the whole video and I appreciate now knowing when I go to the dealership that this is what they do. Because a lot of times there's not a lot of communication between another issue, between the customer educating the customer and you know, between the tech and the customer and education. Knowledge is power. No matter where you're at, whether you're in the industry fixing them or you're the consumer, a smart, empowered, knowledgeable consumer is better than one that is kept in the dark. So when they can know what you're doing or why you're doing it, it helps both parties. They have an understanding of what their money and their time is being used for and they can appreciate more, less I'm getting jerked around for blank amount of dollars for this. What is this? Is it something they're taking in the back and not doing? Is it some kind of fluid? Are they actually testing something? What is this diag fee? You know, when you actually show mind diagrams and there's a certain level where people click off because it's above what they understand, but if you can show them the full spectrum, they can appreciate to the point where they can't comprehend and then past their comprehension that they understand.
Wow, okay. There is something to this more than I can even understand. So I can grasp why I'm paying this or taking this to this person. It's not just some easy fix. Or I go into like a knock sensor code or a specific mass air sensor code and I bring out an oscilloscope and show the pattern or show, you know, all these things where they're like, oh, so you don't just pull a code and the computer doesn't tell you how to fix it. It's that knowledge that they need to be given because so much has been mystified, I guess, that you plug your computer in and it spits out the answer. And at least in my comments on my videos long format, they're understanding that that's not how that works. That that is a stepping stone to get to the answer that, you know, trying to change.
Like I said the other day, getting in these people adding me to these Facebook groups like Outback Owners and this and that. And there's always that guy that takes a picture of their dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree with all the lights on, what's wrong with my car? And it's now I'm seeing, finally, the top comments are pull the codes, scan it first. No one can tell you anything based on this. But there's always still the guy that, oh, my gas cap was loose, or, oh, it's probably an alternator. They're just throwing shots in the dark at these people. And then the diy, I understand, it becomes a vicious cycle too, where their knowledge level is at such a cap that none of them know to check each other and bad information just builds and builds and they go in circles. And then also when you come in from a professional standpoint or a more knowledgeable standpoint and you say, hey, scan the codes. If you're not going to help, just go off like you're being a jackass, like.
But their answer when you scan the codes is, I'm not going to go down and pay them $80 to plug a machine in.
Right.
Just go to Autozone.
They'll tell you when you show them that, hey, the scan tool cost $8,000 and this oscilloscope costs $3,000. And they work in conjunction a lot of times for diagnosing this and the wiring diagrams and the software we need and what we have to pay to get the information to even get into this stuff to start that hours of.
Training that it took to what you're interpreting.
So I look at it this way. There's good people and bad people in all facets of life, whether you want to divide it black and white or not. So just because you have bad experience of DIYers doesn't mean there's not a ton of gracious thankful ones there. There's. There's levels in every everything. There's bad people in our own industry that we need to call out and hold accountable. There's great people in our industry we need to, you know, rise up and learn from.
My point is, I guess with the DIYers, what it's always been to me is a distraction from what I'm actually been trying to do.
Right, Right. Which I understand. Like I get the emails all the time and there's some that I read and I don't respond to, not out of hatred or malice. It's just. Cause your understanding of the issue is so low that I can't really help you and I don't have the time to teach you to get you to the point, to get to the answer. There's also times where they try to send me a video of a car making a noise and like I can't diagnose a sound through a video, through a cell phone, through an email. And I have to explain this to them. And you know, a lot of people are fine with, they understand.
But some people do get, you know, whatever, you're just too big to help me or whatever. And it's like there's only so many hours in the day and there's almost only so much goodwill I can give out for free.
So the great go to answer is just go to a shop, right?
Oh, I refer them to other friends shops or you know, if I can't take on the work at that point or whatever, I'll refer them to someone else somewhere.
You know what's funny though is that that would never be my answer. Just me being me. I'm not saying that shouldn't be your.
Answer, I can tell.
But my answer is you're going to need a fully capable bidirectional scan tool and then maybe I can help you.
Right.
You know, so like I, I don't have a problem. I don't know, I don't have a problem empowering them if they're going to learn to do it right. Who knows if all of a sudden they decide that they want to make a career change. Actual mechanic.
That's the other thing.
Right.
I haven't paid enough emphasis on that. You're exactly right. Right, right. I could be discouraging somebody who could be the next Chuck.
Right. You don't see, you don't know if user 237489 is an 18 year old kid or a 49 year old man.
Right. Is it some kid that's looking that maybe I should get into the trades. I've always liked cars. You know, if they get that bad experience asking for help then it's like it solidifies in their mind that all right, the industry is full of bunch of jag offs that are out for themselves and nobody else. That there's a lot of that out there. But we already know the industry is already in trouble. We're bleeding technicians out. The new kids aren't coming in.
They've seen the issues with the industry which the industry's biggest issue is the industry and we all know the issues and we can list them all out and talk about them forever. But the solving of the issues are too complex to really work out a plan to an attack plan or how we could even implement it if it's, you know, there's even an ability to implement this stuff and create the changes that need to happen to get us to where we are with like other trades like welders or carpenters or plumbers or electricians. The auto repair has always been levels between the trades.
And that goes back to our subject you and I talked about and you tagged me in a couple months ago. That mentorship thing, that's huge, eh? Like you, you mentioned your apprentices that you've had and then you kind of touched on Brandon. How many of them are still doing this now?
So one of them, which was my first one, the biggest problem and the reason why he left great tech and could excel and Ben, my right hand man to let go and he could take half of the workload and I can take the other half of the workload and generate more workflow through the shop and keep up with the demand. And it was over money. And yeah, what I'm going to tell you is going to make you sick to your stomach. So he called me On a Saturday, said, hey, let you know that, you know, I asked for a raise. And they denied it. And that said that it was already at the max what they could do as an apprentice. And he said, I'm going to go down to Volkswagen. He said, I love Volkswagen cars.
I'm like, hey, if that's your passion, you can make more money. Flat rate, going full flat rate and doing that stuff. I'm all with it. He said, just don't tell the service manager because he doesn't. He knows how word can get around if somebody's putting their two weeks notice in.
Yeah.
Then the owner will immediately starve you out.
Can you?
The owner?
I've been there.
Not the service manager, but the owner.
Yep.
So I did go let the service manager know. And I'm like, look, this is between you and I. We need to start finding somebody else. So he put in his two week notice, worked his two week notice, went on to Volkswagen. So then I started interviewing half of the people coming in.
Is he still in the industry?
He was with Volkswagen for a period of time. And then when Covid happened it, it started dwindling down and he just went off to do something else.
A lot of people did.
And from what I hear, he's back in. I don't know where it though, but I do keep up with him. But the thing is, the second person or the next person that came in came from a physical transmission shop, said he had all of this knowledge. And this is a big thing that I know that you guys have talked about with the promotive guys about the guys that are applying for the job saying that they're an A tech, but when they get into the shop, they can't handle it. They don't know, they don't understand at the level of an A tech. So when he comes in, he's an entirely different person than what he perceived himself as. And it took a couple of months to try to get a rhythm with him. He's quick and fast at doing R and R and doing this, that and the other.
But some things personally started coming up. He's like, I gotta leave, I gotta go help my dad or I gotta go help this family member or this family member. And come to find out he was never clocking in and would just at the end of the pay period say that he was here all 40 hours of the week, but he physically wasn't. And when I found out, and that was getting really frustrating and I brought it up to the service manager, hey, we need to take a Look at this. This needs to be addressed. And I've already said something to him. And then when I finally was handed his paycheck, and I've never done this, and saw what his hours were, what he was getting paid as an hourly employee was twice. Twice Chuck, twice of my apprentice that was told, no, you can't get a raise.
I immediately went to the owner's son and told him about it. I said, look back at the track logs of how many times we've had to fix this time, punch in, and how much. He's actually not here. He's stealing.
Right.
And I let him go. So then we brought in the next one. But I did let the first apprentice know kind of what had all transpired and him going on to Volkswagen. I was going to stop that. It was just an eye opener for him to go do what he loves with the brand that he loves. But if it was something else, I kind of would have went more to bat to say, hey, let's get him some more money.
Right? Yeah.
And yeah, most of them are still in the industry. All of them are still in the industry.
Did I have my apprentice when we had our podcast or. No, I had already shut down the shop, right?
Yeah, you'd already shut down the shop.
Okay. So I did not have the apprentice.
No, you were talking about. I. Because I asked you, your friend that you used to work with that now what does he do now? It works for the city, I want to say.
Oh, he works for Westchester County. Yeah, he hangs out with me on the weekends.
But that's not your apprentice.
No, my apprentice was Ethan. I'll say his name. Sorry, Ethan. I'm actually, I'm just very excited to say that he's. He's still in the industry. He's the used car guy at a big dealership by us.
Yeah.
And they limit what he's able to do. He's not allowed to have an aftermarket scanner, which is crazy for a used car guy. The dealership is messed up. Not him. But still, he's. He's in the industry. He's excelling. He's thinking about maybe going heavy duty.
He's not sure. But yeah, he's. He's stuck with it. I'm proud of him.
I can honestly say that, like, a lot of my apprentices are still in. You know, some of the na. Like, the thing is, they become phenomenal. Text, too.
Your apprentice program is. So you have a pro. We don't have a program.
Yeah.
Canada's. If there's one thing that the American side of this industry needs to adopt it's state laws alike or akin to Canada's apprenticeship program.
Because, and I'll tell you why, because it becomes so invested in yourself by the time you spend that much time that the fallout is less. Now I'll show you countless technicians that made it through the apprenticeship program and master hours, took their thing, wrote their reds, what we call red seal certification, pass the exam and they did the trade for three years, five years, and they're like, f this man, right? You know, my good friend has been in podcast, Dan lichardson. He had 20 years in and finally he said he'd been shop foreman at a Toyota dealer, two different Toyota dealers. And he's like, no, I'm done. He goes and becomes an industrial mechanic at the Goodyear plant, right? He'd had enough, he'd had enough. And this is the thing like, so this is why changing the industry is so important to me. Because we suck at being able to bring up that next generation as an industry. We're terrible at it.
We haze them, we eat our own, whatever analogy you want to use, we're terrible at that. And then the reality, this is like a lot of them aren't even picking it, the young people. So then the ones that we do haze them out. And then some of them that are just at that peak point in their career, age wise and everything else, their brains are sharp, their bodies are. We've driven them out. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm tired of having to be judged on my production. I'm tired of, it's always been my fault of Mrs.
Smith, I fixed the car that nobody else. There's a greasy fingerprint. You want to write me up for that, right? Get fucked.
One thing I'm sick and tired of in my comment section, a lot of is talking about PPE in the industry. Nitro gloves, safety glasses, all that stuff. The oh, don't be a pansy, be a real man, all that bs. I'm sick and tired of that mentality in this industry. Everyone has the tough guy when they come in their teens and twenties. And then when you're pushing 40 like I am, your back's broken, your knees are shot, you hurt all the time. There's all the health issues that come up later in life. Like my personal professor at tech school actually worked was a coworker with my father and by my second year he had, I can't remember exactly what some lung issues, asbestos exposure to brakes and clutches back in the 60s, 70s, when.
And I'm sure if my dad was still alive, he'd probably have cancer or something else from contact. I mean all the stuff we contact with both skin contact inhalation just. It's a horrible industry for your body, your joints, not just your mental health. Through the critical thinking, through it all. And the stress of everything is the wear and tear on your body. And if you're not gonna protect yourself the best way you can, even the minimal stuff, gloves and safety glasses, you only got two eyes, you lose them and you're screwed in this and you can't. Well, you know, there's that one guy, that phenomenal tech that's blind. But you know, just general speaking, you don't want to lose your eyesight.
So why, why play the tough guy to get a piece of metal in your eye or you know, nerve damage, your fingers and all that kind of stuff. That mentality needs to change.
I wish 20 years ago rubber gloves had have been such a thing. You know, I'll be 49 and November 49, damn near 50. Like how many mechanics do you know that are 50 still?
You got into this at becoming of adult age 20.
The first shop I walked into and started working In, I was 21 years old. 21 time too. Yeah. And that was a heavy truck stop. That was my background as I started at heavy trucks first because I had friends. So it's actually my brother in law that had become a mechanic. And like my own father was a collision guy, auto body guy. And he's like, you're not gonna become a mechanic.
He's freaking stupid. I say the same thing and it's like, no, you're. What are you nuts? So mine then I'm like, okay, I'll go and do heavy, heavy equipment, tractor trailer, because there's no flat rate. And boy, you want to talk about beating your body up. Those guys are. And like I was a machine in terms of, like I was young, I didn't hurt, was fit.
And you hurt now?
Yeah, you know, you know, a minute ago I said about if my dad was still allowed and he'd probably have cancer or something from the industry. But the industry actually did kill my father. He died when he was 58 years old. Yesterday was actually 20 years to the date and he died from complications from umbilical hernia that he pulled from being the tough guy and pulling 9 inch 4 door ends on his shoulders, on his back and picking up transmission cases and being the big badass in the shop. He pulled that hernia Loose and worked with it for years, had it repaired, tore it loose again, and after he was retired, out of the industry for it was two or three months out on the tractor, on the farm. One day, came in from bailing hay, felt sick, and it ended up the hernia twisted, cut off blood supply, went septic. There was nothing they could do. By the time they found it out, doped him up on morphine and let him go.
So the industry more or less did take him. Between the fact that his knees were shot and he hurt every day and all that, that, you know, is that mentality that, I'm macho man, tough guy, I don't need help, I don't need a lift. I can pick up the transmission by myself. And it did him in.
You want to know what's scary? I got a hernia right now that I haven't had operated on.
Don't wait. Do not wait. Yeah, everybody of mine that has come up to me recently and said anything about a hernia, I tell them that story about my dad, not to scare him, but it's a possibility. It can happen, and you don't even realize it's happened. They had no clue. They thought he was having a heart attack because he was overweight, all these things. And then my mother, of all people said, well, what about his hernia? And by the time they caught it, it was two days later, he was already septic and there was nothing they could do. So don't wait.
Yeah, it can be a serious thing, something that, you know, guys walk around for years with a hernia as another common issue or common injury in this industry, again from picking up stuff that's too heavy or not asking for help. You know, it's that mentality of that is the same mentality that's picking on the new kids and the young kids. And why are you wearing gloves? Like, are you miserable in your own choices that you've gotten to this point that you don't want to see the new kids protect themselves? You want them as broken and miserable as you are, then that's the whole thing that people see this on the outside and don't want to come to the industry.
So in closing up, how do we fix that? I'll let you start.
Fix it from what they see and what they think, from others that are coming into the industry.
How do we make it so that.
Like, it's not cool anymore to make a lot of thinking so that they.
Could start to come in other than what you already doing or what we're already Doing, which is putting ourselves out there and talking about it. But what do the people in the shops that are listening to this? What is it that, what do we do to make the young people want to come in and do this again.
To take the older generation? Because I do have that, and it's a personal conflict of that I do have with a colleague. And he's had apprentices and they've all been ASAP students straight through the GM program. And I've watched him pass them off and they made fun of him. And now he's a used car tech. He's already graduated college and he's got his degree. And the only thing that I ever heard from him was that he just did it so he could know to work on his own car. But now he's a used car tech. And the way that they treated him and that he would come in late, and then the day that that tech head off and he chatted with me, I got a little personal with him.
So I asked him about, you know, his life, got involved with him, get involved with him. Because if they're, if they're not there to take your job, I do want everybody to realize that the new generation that is coming in is not there to take your job. They are our legacy to continue what we are doing. But there are ways to go into things on how we get paid, dealing with warranty, dealing with flat rate. If you've got a guarantee or not and don't look at it as you're there to come in and just make a paycheck and go home. If you have a responsibility to an apprentice and that is your job, to teach and mentor them, then by God, do it. Because all you're doing is hurting yourself and somebody else's future. Because the day that that tech left and I had the apprentice and got to know him, he's got a medical condition and everybody's sitting here making fun of him, right? He's never told anybody that.
Nobody ever asked, nobody cared. And because of that, he started getting more and more fascinated into what I do and what everybody else is doing. More eager to learn and more eager to stay and then teach him how to make money and how not to get ripped off and get jaded.
So I kind of know your little backstory. And you had a tough time coming in, right? Mentorship was not really coming into the industry itself.
You did not get mentor problem. And again, that podcast was not very long ago. But a little bit like the problem was not the fact that no one would take the time to mentor me but that they didn't know how. Yeah, I, I was thinking back to one of the classes I took today and we were. It was with Brandon and he's talking about. I know I'm going to get hate for this but one of my first steps in the diagnostic process is the vehicle up on Identifix. I agree. That's one of my first steps as well.
You know, I do it. I don't, I don't care if you want to make fun of me for looking at confirmed fixes. Confirmed fixes are real world events of failures, pattern failures that you would never see. So aside from that though, the first, not my job at Sears or anything like that, but the first independent shop where I really feel like I'm on my way to becoming a mechanic. I started to look at fuses for a Jeep Liberty that was there and the. Not the owner but the service writer essentially stopped me and he said, what are you doing? We just do whatever Identifix says. I just didn't have anyone to mentor me. There was no one unless it was to do brakes or a ball joint or a tie rod.
Yeah, Robert, it's a hard answer.
I know there's.
We can make the change to bring kids in, but the industry as its whole has to change to retain them, I think is the long answer. And how to achieve that is the more difficult question because it's from the manufacturers down. It's not just the dealerships, it's the independent shops. But they follow each other so, you know, getting them interested, engaged in it, to bring them in, putting them under your wing, so to say, instead of harassing, belittling, you know, the hazing, the taunting, the ribbing each other in the shop kind of stuff to a degree. There's a time and place, I was never for it, but I'm an oddball. So whatever I wanted to come in, do my work, be left alone and get out. But you know, changing that I think is the main thing to get people in. Once we get the people in, having them stay and get engaged with it and finding the right people to bring in, not just, you know, that's, I think been a lot of things that people have a misunderstanding getting into what it is.
They like working on their own vehicle as a hobby and they say, well, I can do this for a living. They get in, it's like, well, this is not hanging out on the weekends with my buddies working on a car. This is different. You need to find that guy. That's Got the more mechanical, technical, has to know how something works, the ins and outs, the nuts and bolts. They have to have that drive to want to problem solve and fix. It's not so much the it's a cool thing hobby to fix it. That's the people that come in and burn out real quick and be done.
It's the other guys that maybe take longer to get pulled into it, but once they are, they're in it for life kind of deal. So it's finding the right people is keeping them once they're in. And it's not an easy fix. It's a long, drawn out process. It's going to take many years to shift in the right direction.
I think keeping people in is probably the easiest way that you could bring people in. Who's going to want to join an.
Industry where they see people bleeding out.
Yeah.
And then I've said it before, I think we went into it on your last podcast. I think the way to do that is, unfortunately, with money raising, our labor rates stop being the buttholes of the industry or of the trades, I should say. And, and then as we raise those labor rates, that that money doesn't go to the shop or the shop owner. It goes to the techs that work there. Yeah, you keep them there, you keep them happy. And then their nephew Kyle sees their happy uncle in the industry and wants to join in.
Yeah. Well, guys, this has been like an absolutely monumental night, 100%. And you know, it started it as kind of like a rib, you know, in the sense that because we're all sitting here and do we all really like each other or do we all really get along or not?
I like all you guys.
Yeah.
I can tell you right now that it's like I wouldn't have you here and I wouldn't have pushed so hard to have you come to this event if I didn't have something that I felt that I genuinely wanted to share with you guys about what is, what is so special about it. And this almost two hour conversation has been absolutely amazing for me. And I can't thank you three for being here. I can't thank you enough. I'm over the moon, excited for how this is going to be received. And, you know, if we can do this more often, I think that there's no limit to what the kind of influence that we can start to have. You know, getting scheduling to line up and all that kind of stuff is going to be, is going to be not easy. But I mean, like, I already feel like you're a new friend to me, man.
But I know you pretty good. I know you're pretty good. And something about the three of us with me in this room tonight, I feel something. And I think that that's maybe just the euphoric from what this event does, but I think that we're headed in a very good direction. And so my hats off to all three gentlemen. You know, you guys are great. Thank you for coming on and do this with me. It really meant a lot, hopefully.
So thanks for having us.
Thank you. Thank you.
Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and, like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASA group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10 millimeter, and we'll see you all again next time.
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