News from the Munich motor show and our partnership with Bicester Motion #279

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Welcome back to the Intercooler podcast, everybody.

The podcast powered by car finance specialist JBR Capital.

This is episode 279 with Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel.

Lots that we want to get through this week, Andrew.

We've also got a guest joining us halfway through this episode.

We do.

We'll come on to the guest a little bit later on.

Can we talk about Jason Plato, please?

Oh, could we?

Yeah.

So, on the 18th...

We have some good news.

We do.

On the 18th of September, we're holding our next live podcast recording.

We're in partnership with Renault at Battersea Power Station, and the guest is Jason Plato.

Yeah.

It's going to be a right laugh.

I think it is, isn't it?

The two-time British Touring Car Champion, he's the record holder for the most number

of BTCC race wins.

99, I think, isn't it?

97.

So, it's a very intimate venue, a very small venue.

And because of that, there are very limited tickets.

There are only 50 tickets available, and we've sold 50 tickets.

We sold that.

But, at the time of recording, there are two tickets available because somebody had to cancel.

So as we record this now, there are still two tickets available.

So you're going to have to move very, very quickly if you want them.

If you want to join us on the evening of the 18th of September in London.

Because it's in partnership with Renault, there will be that mad Renault 5 Turbo 3E,

the crazy electric hyperhatch thing.

Go on to YouTube and watch it going up the hill at Goodwood.

It's a wild machine, isn't it?

So that'll be there.

There'll be drinks and nibbles.

There'll be a Q&A with Jason.

We're going to be hosting it.

I think it's going to be a fun evening.

It's going to be great fun.

Yeah, and well, yes.

I mean, having sold that, we kind of thought it was all done and dusted.

But, yeah, lo and behold, there is an opportunity for just two more people,

you and a guest or two individuals.

Do come along, and we would love, love, love to see you there.

I'll put a link in the description.

And if you click that link, hopefully, maybe those two tickets will still be available.

So go check it out.

That episode, we are going to record it as we always do with our live podcast.

That will go out at some point in the future,

but it'll be a lot more fun being there, I'm sure.

I want to talk about Steve Sutcliffe.

Oh, OK.

That name should be familiar to just about everyone listening to this.

Only familiar to me.

Yeah, Steve has just over the past year or two written a very, very good,

very comprehensive series called How to Drive for the intercooler.

Those articles, I can't remember how many of the arts, maybe 10 or so.

Those articles are all available on the intercooler app and website now.

But Steve is about to do, he's about to start his How to Drive video series.

We've recorded three so far.

They're all going to go up over the next few weeks on the intercooler YouTube channel.

And if they get a good response, people enjoy them, we'll do more.

So they're not live yet.

This is just sort of marking your card, everybody.

If you if you're interested in this sort of

advanced driving techniques that we we all get turned on by,

then look out for that video series coming very soon.

We'll mention it again on this podcast.

We'll we'll make it very visible on the app and website and on social media.

So hopefully you won't miss it.

Can we say what are the each of these episodes that we've done so far?

Comprises. Yeah.

So the first one is How to Drive, your favorite B road.

Yeah.

So he's talking about all the the techniques and the the tips and tricks

that you can use to have more fun on a B road and be safer.

He's he's we've already got all three of these that this first batch ready to go.

I've seen them all.

They're brilliant videos.

What he's not doing is turning you how to get lower your P.B.

down your favorite stretch of road.

And goodness for that.

That's not what it's about.

He's he's very he's approached it in a very mature, very grown up way.

But it's not just about being safer.

It is about how to have more enjoyment on your favorite road

without taking stupid liberties.

And the next two are shot on track at Thruxton.

And the first one is how to get the most out of a rear wheel drive car on track.

And the second was how to get the most out of a four wheel drive car on track.

So really drilling down into the details,

the differences between rear and four wheel drive cars.

Let us know when these videos go out, get in touch, watch them

if they get a good reception, if they perform well, we'll do more.

I hope that they do.

I've really enjoyed working with Steve on them and and enjoyed watching

what watching the output as well.

And can we say roughly when the first one is going to land?

So I think in the next week or two.

OK, so keep keep tuned.

Yeah, stay tuned to our YouTube channel.

And we'll make it very, very obvious when the first one is out there.

There's some news, isn't there?

Should we talk a bit of news?

It is the Munich Motor Show.

It's live at the moment.

It could kick off over the weekend, didn't it?

It's of course these days, it's not a motor show, it's a mobility show.

I don't know if you've had a chance

to have a look at some of the stuff that's out there.

I know about a couple of the things that are going to be there.

Yeah. So I mean, there's at least

but there's at least one truly possibly

one game changer for the manufacturer, but very important car.

Which one's that BMW?

Yeah, the IX3.

Yeah. I mean, it is, it is, I say, just it is just another

electric BMW SUV.

But to give the context,

in 1962, BMW was in a terrible state because

it was it was selling either cheap bubble cars

which you can make no money on or really expensive luxury cars

which nobody wanted.

And what they did was they thought we're going to throw up

throughout that business plan

and we're just going to build a really great family saloon.

And this car, which was known as the Neuer Klasse

or went into production of the 151962

and it changed everything.

The modern BMW was born the day that car appeared on that showstand.

And this new IX3, they are dubbing the Neuer Klasse.

So if you like the Neuer Neuer Klasse.

So it's the first time in over 60 years that they have felt

so moved as to use that appellation for a new car.

And it is it's a completely new design language for BMW.

And then Neuer Klasse is a new family of cars, isn't it?

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's the thing.

It's not just an SUV.

It's this is the design language.

This is the architecture.

This is basically how BMWs are going to be for not just years to come.

But decades, it's going to this is the new BMW.

It's a complete relaunch for the new era, hasn't it?

For the new era.

And so, you know, don't just look at it.

And I mean, when we put a story on the website and app about it,

I think some of the comments were quite mixed.

I think it's I think it's an attractive car.

I think it's an interesting looking car.

Certainly concerned compared to some of the BMWs

that we have seen of late, like the XM.

I think it's it's a really nicely designed car.

And if you look at all the stats in terms of, you know,

sort of range and power, recharge speeds,

but also the price they're charging,

it is on paper at least super, super competitive.

500 miles WLTP range is an EV.

That is something, isn't it?

If we know it won't do 500 miles.

No, but if it'll do if it'll do 400 in gentle drive or 350 or 350,

wherever you like, that is, you know, that's really something.

I mean, that is going to open it up

to a whole constituency of people

who wouldn't have considered one before.

And the real point is this is just the first.

It's the new three series, which I think comes next year,

which will be, which will share the same architecture.

And because presumably it'll be lower and lighter,

whatever the figures for the IX3 are,

the three series figures will be even better.

That's the one that I'm really excited about.

I mean, it really does seem, I mean, sometimes,

the manufacturers have these sort of

landmark moments.

I mean, most recently that I can think of is Volkswagen

and tried to do it with the ID three and saying

that it was the third, you know,

of the landmark Volkswagen after the Beetle and the Golf.

Yeah, that was a mess, wasn't it?

Excuse me.

It really was a mess because the car just wasn't right.

And it turned out to be a bit of a nightmare for them.

And they had to revise the car very quickly.

And this massive re-launch.

So I guess what I'm saying is we can't just assume

that this car is going to be as amazing as it seems.

We need to drive it and hopefully get to live with the one

for a bit before we can make any sort of proper

pronouncements about it.

But it at least has that potential.

And, you know, I've been someone who has driven

and enjoyed so many BMWs over such long period of time.

I want nothing but the best for it.

And I really, really hope that it is good

as it both looks and appears on paper.

Yeah, it's a start of a bold new era for BMW.

So let's see what else comes.

There's a new Polestar, Polestar 5,

which is very much a Porsche Taycan rival.

Yes.

The top spec one is going to have 900 BHP.

Well, so that sounds quite Taycan turbo S-E, doesn't it?

It does, rather.

And also, why?

I know, I know, but they can't help themselves.

It looks quite cool in that sort of Polestar-ish way.

That's reasonably interesting.

There's a new Audi as well.

The Concept C, so it is a concept,

but apparently the showroom car that will follow

in a couple of years' time is going to look very, very similar.

It's not really a new TT

because apparently it's going to sit between the space

that was occupied by the old TT and the R8.

OK. So it's...

TT Plus.

TT is something like that.

But it's, again, it's an EV

and it shares a lot of the hardware

with the forthcoming Boxster and Cayman EVs.

Yes.

Again, you know, quite a nice looking car,

but I don't think it's sort of a seminal moment

like the original TT or some other designs

that we could think of.

Or even the R8, certainly for Audi.

Yeah, you're right.

All right, it's a great example.

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What else was there?

Well, the 911 Turbo S.

I don't know if this was at Munich or if it was.

Yes, it was there.

It was, okay.

So this is the 992.2, 911 Turbo S.

We speculated a while ago, didn't we,

when the GTS, the Carrera GTS was new.

That the Turbo would arrive with two

of that car's electric turbos.

Yes.

And indeed it has done.

Yes.

So it's the same new 3.6 liter flat six

with twin electric turbos and a hybrid.

Did we not also say

that its power output would begin with a seven?

We did, and it does.

And it does.

It's 701, the HP.

Doesn't matter.

No, we got that right.

And so it has a, it is a hybrid.

So it's got, the turbos have got motors on them,

electric motors to spool them up very quickly.

Yeah.

So it has both, doesn't it?

So the turbos are hybrids.

They are powered both by exhaust gases and electricity.

That's why it's a hybrid.

There's also an electric motor in the transmission.

There's also a 1.9 kilowatt battery

and an electric motor operating

like a conventional hybrid.

So it's kind of like a hybrid hybrid.

It is.

And I remember when we drove the Carrera T,

sorry, the Carrera GTS for the first time

earlier this year.

And I felt the performance.

And it didn't feel the sort of profile,

the acceleration profile was different to a 911 turbo

because those cars typically are quite boosty.

So there's a little bit of lag,

a reasonably high boost threshold.

So you're waiting just a touch for that acceleration

to hit you.

That's gonna go.

That's gonna be completely gone.

Yeah, it's just gonna go.

It is going to be, because if you remember,

because exactly what you're talking about,

Porsche said that although ultimately the old Turbo S

was clearly a quicker car

because it had much more power, 650 horsepower,

the new GTS was quicker out the blocks.

Can't remember what measure they gave

but over the first 20 meters, whatever,

because of that immediacy.

It just goes.

Well, imagine what a Turbo S is gonna do

with 700 horsepower and-

Four-wheel drive.

Four-wheel drive and bang, gone.

It's gonna be wild.

It doesn't actually have any more torque

than the previous car, 590 pound-foot,

but- That'll be a gearbox limitation.

Probably, but it's a much flatter torque curve

so the area under the curve is far bigger.

The coupe is gonna cost 199,100 pounds

and the cab, another 10 grand.

Deliveries begin before the end of this year.

So it's gonna cost,

I mean, I suppose that's always been the way,

it's not quite, but it is almost twice as much

as a base spec Carrera.

Yeah.

And I think that's pretty much in line

with the way that those things have been.

That's a lot of money, isn't it?

200 grand almost.

They say that it's 14 seconds faster

around the Nurburgring than the previous car.

I can believe it.

Easily believe that.

That's around a second a mile.

In rallying terms, a second a mile

or a second a kilometer, either measure,

is sort of the difference between a world champion

and a journeyman.

Yes.

Because if you take the full length,

the full distance of a rally,

it might be a couple hundred miles.

Your minutes behind come the end of the rally

if you're a second a mile off.

And you look like a no,

obviously it's still a very good driver,

but you look like a no-hoper finishing minutes

off the guy who wins.

So it's the difference between a great driver

and a journeyman.

So a second a mile is a big, big difference

for any kind of car.

But do we know, for instance,

that's on a like for like time?

Because all Porsche would have to do,

I don't know whether they've done this or not,

to get that 14 seconds is just optional.

It's just to make a cup to an optional tire.

Yeah, so I don't think they've said.

And they could do that.

But let us say that the cars are comparable

in terms of their tires.

Another 50 horsepower, a flatter torque curve,

but that immediacy.

Presumably there is a weight penalty, isn't there?

Yeah, I think it's 70 or kilos, maybe a bit more.

I think it's 80 kilos.

So that's not gonna help.

But just the ability to not at every single corner,

every time you come on off the accelerator,

which as you know, is an awful lot of time around there.

And those milliseconds you lose,

just waiting for the turbos to spool back up again.

That's all gone now.

More power, better deployment.

Yeah, I can see it.

But if there is, but also,

the aero will be a bit better,

even if the tire is standard,

then it's gonna come on a bit.

I just hope that it's down to that stuff

and not it becoming a more extreme kind of car.

Because I hope Porsche has remembered

that most people who buy 911 turbos

use them frequently, maybe daily.

I have no doubt Porsche will remember that.

I hope so.

I think they know exactly what a turbo S customer is like.

And it's not someone who's gonna go

flinging it around the Nurburgring, Porsche.

I think if they failed to tick that box,

that would be a massive boo-boo.

Yeah, it would.

The car needs to be comfortable

and it needs to be quiet.

It needs to be, what 911 turbos have always been,

well, since the 993,

which is when they first got twin turbos

and four-wheel drive,

they just need to be the ultimate point-to-point missile.

Just ease, comfort, bang, go.

Yeah, usability.

Yeah, of course.

All that stuff.

We'll see.

I think we'll drive it fairly soon.

We'll see what kind of car it turns out to be.

Do you just wanna do a minute or two on Formula One at Monza?

Yeah, so, well,

I don't really wanna do anything about the race.

I just wanna talk about McLaren's decision to swap back.

So if you weren't watching it,

it wasn't a particularly interesting race.

Max was on pole because the McLaren doesn't work

particularly well on circuits like that.

What the McLaren excels at

is medium to high-speed corners.

And there aren't really very many of those at Monza.

It's a power circuit.

It's a very, very low-downforce circuit.

Anyway, so Max got pole just

and then I think controlled the race from start to finish.

And at the moment that I am talking about,

Oscar came in to the pits to change

from medium to soft tyres right towards the end of the race.

And at the time,

Lando was ahead of him on the track,

three or four seconds ahead of him at a comfortable distance.

And I think that was the way it was gonna stay.

And then Lando came in,

I think two laps later, maybe one, I think it was two

and did his pit stop,

but the front left wheel gun didn't work properly.

And instead of having a 1.9,

so Oscar had an absolutely unbelievable stop,

1.9 second stop,

I think Lando's was either 4.9 or 5.9, don't know.

Anyway, point being is that he came out behind Oscar

and was gonna come third

until they got on the radio and told them to swap back.

And I just thought, that's wrong.

They shouldn't have done that.

I'm the world's biggest Lando fan.

I've made no bones about it.

I would love him to be world champion.

More than anybody else out there,

I want Lando to be world champion,

but I don't want him to be world champion like that.

And there's no criticism of him.

If he gets a free ride past his teammate,

he's gonna take it.

But it was wrong for, it was just totally,

it was wrong because it wasn't fair.

It wasn't Piastri's fault

that Norris's wheel gun malfunctional,

the handler didn't operate it properly

or whatever the reason was.

That wasn't, why should Oscar pay a penalty for that?

It's also, it's just not racing, is it?

The only interesting formula one at the moment

is which McLaren drivers come on the world champion.

And if you give out the impression,

if you communicate to the outside world,

that actually your drivers are just puppets

and they will just do whatever you want them to,

then actually what you realize is you're not looking

at a competition, a red hot competition between two drivers.

You're looking at two drivers

who are just doing what they're told.

And I just think that is disappointing.

I don't think it's very sporting and I think it's wrong.

I also think the drivers are also to slightly to blame

in so far as if this were Lewis or Vettel

or goodness me, Max being told to swap the place back,

they'd have just said, get stuffed.

They wouldn't have done it.

If they'd gone off the circuit trying to overtake them

and gained an advantage unfairly,

then absolutely, you've got to give the place back.

But Oscar didn't gain the advantage unfairly.

Lando had a bit of bad luck.

And why should Oscar have to pay the price for that?

I just think, and I'm such a, I'll say this now

because I'm such a massive fan of McLaren

and the way that they have gone about this entire thing.

And we did a podcast, didn't we,

with Zach down at the McLaren Technology Center

and I just couldn't fault the way that he went racing.

This is the first time I've actually just thought,

guys, you shouldn't have done that.

You just got that wrong.

That wasn't ultimately very sporting.

And as you said to me,

if Oscar ends up losing the championship by a point,

how are they going to feel about that?

How's anyone going to feel about it?

And how's Lando going to feel about it?

Is he going to feel actually that his championship

is slightly compromised?

Do you think Oscar should have said, sorry, guys, tough luck?

Yes, I do.

I think Oscar should have said, look, guys, I am a team player.

I understand what we're here to do,

but it's not like we're fighting

with some other team for the constructors.

That's in the bag, so we don't have to worry about that.

The only fight is between me and Lando.

And you're not letting me fight.

You are trying to stage manage it.

And by trying to, I mean, it's that phrase,

isn't the road to hell is paved with good intention?

And I'm sure that what McLaren did was done

for the best possible reasons,

but it was the worst possible outcome

because I don't think that Lando would have been

particularly happy with the second place.

I don't think that Oscar would have been remotely happy

for his third place.

I think it was a PR disaster for me.

I think it's one of those decisions

that somehow miraculously manages to end up being bad

for absolutely everybody affected by it.

So was the problem McLaren asking them

to swap back over?

McLaren should have just said nothing.

Absolutely.

That's the rub of the green.

And it's the rub of the green.

And Lando would have, you know,

would have come out and gone,

well, it's a real shame because I would have come second.

I've come third because something went wrong at my pit stop.

You know, shit happened guys.

And Lando would have thought, well, you know,

I've been very unlucky with that.

And I was really unlucky to DNF last weekend.

And, you know, maybe the wind is not blowing

my way at the moment.

But, you know, what goes around comes around.

And, you know, I could see no justification

for that whatsoever.

I mean, if, you know, one of them was way ahead

and the other was far behind

and they were in a battle to the death with Ferrari

or with Red Bull for the constructors championship.

And those few points really mattered.

Fine, do it.

Yeah, but as it is,

they don't need to stage manage this thing.

Absolutely not.

I don't need to.

And by making it look like it's stage managed,

it actually damages McLaren's reputation

which has been fantastic because it's up until now.

They've always just said, guys, go race.

What change?

Why were they not allowed to race this time?

And by calling for them to swap,

you put the drivers, or Oscar in this instance,

in a horrible situation.

Because he's been, it's an instruction from his team.

So he will feel that he has to do it.

And actually on the sky coverage,

they were saying that in an interview,

he'd said already that he would do whatever the team

asked him to do because he needs the team behind him.

So we know that he's quite a compliant character.

But you shouldn't make it their problem.

It's your screw up, you have to deal with it.

You have to live with it.

And so maybe Oscar is now saying,

okay, guys, I did that for you.

I want payback later in the season.

There'll come another scenario.

And this time I want it to go my way.

And so it might end up net being worse for Lando.

Because if it gives Oscar a win and Lando comes second,

that's like seven points, isn't it?

Not three.

And Oscar could just say, look,

you swapped me around.

So I just asked you to return the favor.

Like, okay, fine.

I won, he came second rather than me coming third

and him coming second.

It's a shame, it's a shame

because it doesn't feel like sport, does it?

No, it doesn't.

It does feel like you're watching.

Well, we've said before,

lots of people have said that this is

the politest teammate championship battle

there's ever been.

And I like that.

And I know an awful lot of people

would prefer them to be trying to throttle each other.

But I think it can go the, oh no, after you.

I think it can go too far.

And I think on this occasion,

I mean, it's the only time I've seen it

for my Claren this season.

So maybe I shouldn't just bang on about it too much.

Maybe on reflection, they regret it.

Maybe it was just a sort of spur of the moment call.

I can't really see them carrying on

in that thing for the rest of the season,

but I just really, really hope not.

Because if it does,

they're not the team I thought they were.

Yeah.

I just hope it spices up.

I just hope that this battle really gets going

and it becomes so intense

that you can't take your eyes off it.

I got a text from someone

who will be known to some people listening to this.

I probably shouldn't say who it is.

But he sent me a long text saying,

I've just had it with Formula One.

Really?

Because he just loves McLaren

and he just hated so much

watching that what he regarded as a pantomime play out

with within the team that is frankly

the only reason he's watching it at the moment.

He just said it's the last straw.

Really?

Yeah.

I'm just not interested anymore.

Interesting.

I'm going to be more charitable

and I'm going to give,

you know, I mean, I need to watch it anyway

and I'm so in love with the sport,

I will do anyway.

But if it's supposed to be anything other than a one off,

as I said, it's not the team I thought it was going to be.

Am I going to be really disappointed?

Don't manage it.

Let it play out

because we need to feel that we're watching something unpredictable

and exciting.

Yeah, particularly when you know you all win

the Constructors' Driver Championship

and you know one of your drivers will be world champion.

So what?

Yeah.

Let him get on with it.

Yeah.

Right, end of round.

Okay, enough ranting about Formula One.

Right, let's bring in our...

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Guest.

And as if by magic,

Andrew has appeared on my side of the desk

and our guest is in position,

our guest being Philip White from Bistemotion.

Philip, thanks for coming in.

My pleasure.

How are you? Are you well?

Very well, thank you.

Good to see you both.

So you are brand and marketing director at Bistemotion,

but you are at the heart of everything

that's going on at that fabulous site.

And we wanted to get you in

because it's a bit of an announcement, actually, Andrew,

because the intercooler is now

an official media partner of Bistemotion.

We've been working together for a little while

doing bits and pieces here and there,

but this really formalises the association,

the partnership,

and it's great news for us

because it gives us really good access to you guys,

to the site, to all the really interesting businesses

and people that are on site.

It should give us lots of interesting stories

and podcasts,

but also, and this is why it's relevant to the audience,

we're gonna be putting on some events at Bistemotion

and inviting you guys along

so you can be involved in all of this.

But we thought it was a good opportunity

to get someone in from Bistemotion

who really understands it.

That's you, Philip,

and learn more about what's going on there

because it's such an important site these days

to so many of us

because I think petrolheads in this country

were crying out, dying for a site that we could call our own,

a place where we all felt at home,

a place where we could congregate

and just be petrolheads.

That's what Bistemotion has become.

Correct, yeah.

It's lovely to hear you articulated in that way

and almost sort of play back

the ideas that we were having 12 years ago

as to how we create this.

Just for someone,

because I think there will be some people,

I think most people who listen to this

will know exactly who you are

and will have probably been to scrambles and everything,

but just for anybody who kind of heard the name

but doesn't quite know what we're talking about,

could you just give us a minute on what the site is,

what goes on there

and how it came about, how it came to be?

And just to jump in there,

some people will know the place as BistemHeritage.

Absolutely.

So, well, Bistemotion is first and foremost

the most extraordinary business community.

It's a collection of like-minded pioneers,

changemakers, manufacturers, innovators

who have a shared passion to deliver

the sort of engineering, mobility,

automotive solutions that we need for tomorrow.

The site is 50 businesses spread out across,

well, currently a 20-acre site

and they represent the full spectrum

of the automotive sector really.

So everything from right back to kind of the early days

of historical automotive

and proper kind of veteran vintage motoring

right the way up to contemporary component manufacturer,

motorsport, events, showrooms,

through to the cutting edge.

So manufacturers in synthetic fuels,

right the way up to Formula One

and governing bodies like Motorsport UK

who are representing a membership of 70,000 drivers out there

with licenses and a motorsport industry

worth 16 billion to the UK's economies.

And if you go there,

it is kind of like the antidote

to an industrial estate, isn't it?

Because it is so unlike that,

even though there are so many businesses

and you think, well, that's the sort of thing

you would find in an industrial estate

because the site is so beautiful,

it was built on an old World War II RAF base

and all the original buildings are still there

and the way that you get,

I mean, we tend to be camped out outside a business

that rebuilds and restores old railies, pre-war cars

and from there right up to, you know,

modern state-of-the-art car manufacturers

and competition car manufacturers

and the way that all these dramatically different businesses

all coexist and interact with each other,

I've never been anywhere else like it.

It is a remarkable place to go

and a remarkable thing to see

and I guess that explains largely

the extraordinary success that you've had with it.

Well, thank you.

I mean, we have always wanted to be very different

to the sort of the gray box industrial estates

that you find around the country

and throughout the process of building the site,

we've learned that you can never underestimate

what people do in sheds

and it felt like, you know, as the industry grows

and really with sort of planning for future generations,

how do we inspire the next gen?

How do we educate them?

How do we bring them into,

particularly the historic motoring world

and by building a beautiful destination

for them to visit through events

but also to see as a viable career pathway

was a really key part of that

and that has over the 12 years that we've been doing this

grown into the modern motoring sector

which is how we've evolved to be

Vista Motion from Vista Heritage

and we're now working with the likes of businesses

like YASA who are at the cutting edge

of electric motor manufacture

creating beautiful products.

And you were saying that

they're literally about to set up shop, aren't they?

Yeah, absolutely.

So we've just finished their building

which was a 90,000 square foot

of our biggest building yet,

building delivered on time and on budget this year

which is a success for us.

And we've handed over the keys for them

to call it their new headquarters.

So what do you say to those

who might understand or be concerned

of that presumably because big modern OEMs

and manufacturers probably got slightly deeper pockets

than people who sort of walk around

wearing overalls with pencils behind their ears.

So people who fear that the charm might be lost

because inevitably more modern facilities

are going to take over.

Are you still going to keep the sort of the charm

and the original restorers

and all those sorts of traditional businesses

that made us all fall in love with Vista

in the first place?

Absolutely.

It's a huge part of the site

and of course the breadth of interest

that we all have within the sector.

And so you may well see those that are working

for the kind of the cutting edge contemporary businesses

but they still have a passion for Land Rover Series 2s

or will turn up in their old car on the weekend.

So it's a really important part of what we do

and of course the atmosphere of the site.

Yeah.

The way that people typically will interact

with the site, Vista Motion,

the normal punters I mean the listeners

and the viewers will be the scramble events.

And I think you hold three or four a year.

Three isn't it?

Absolutely.

And the next one is October the 5th

and we'll be there again

as we usually are displaying a bunch of interesting cars.

Talk us about the scrambles.

What was the original vision?

How has it evolved?

How is it different to what was originally planned?

And are you pleased with the apparent success?

Well it sort of goes back to what you were saying earlier

and those with the engineers with the older cars

and the more sort of romantic end

of the historic motoring world.

We designed the scrambles as an event

to be and access all areas space

and to I think to spell the myth

that classic motoring in particular is an exclusive thing.

It's not.

The scramble was always designed to be an access all areas.

Lower the drawbridge style event

where the I suppose the unofficial motto for us

was if you love it, we love it too.

And that brought in a wonderful community.

And we made sure that there wasn't any sort of

particular order to the displays.

It was bring everything in and mix it all up

and you'd end up with a 2CV next to a 250 Ferrari.

And there are very few events in the country

where you go and see things like that.

Of course it was a way of interdispersing the enthusiast

and the motoring world with the businesses based on site

and to give them the opportunity to open their doors

and show off what they were doing

and bring people on the journey of their evolution.

For us we could tell the story of what we were doing

and show the gradual renovation

of the buildings on site as well

as we went through sort of phase by phase.

And I suppose at the time we didn't realize

that it would turn into something so sort of popular

within the motoring culture that we love.

And now today it sits at sort of 8,000 visitors

and we have to very carefully curate

and maintain that atmosphere.

And we want it to be that size and not.

Exactly, so you actually cap the number of people

who are going to come.

And that's not capped by sort of regulations

that's just you deciding that that's the number

that we're comfortable with

because we don't want to turn it into a zoo.

We want to give people the best possible visitor experience

at the sites and to be able to see the cars

and meet the businesses and meet our partners

and get involved in the stands there

and actually have the space to walk around

and see the cars, take photos and chat to people.

And even before you even get onto the facility

I mean the car park itself, just wandering in there

just see the sorts of things that people turn up in

when they go to a scramble.

I might get spent hours just wandering around there.

It really is, if anybody's not been

I presume you've long since sold out for the October event.

But seriously, it's a good question

because one of the things we always hear

about the scramble is basically

I think the term that is most readily associated with

is sold out because you do sell out very quickly, don't you?

So somebody, so the October's already gone

so the next one will be in January, I'm guessing.

If somebody wants to make sure

they're gonna get a ticket, what do they need to do?

So our scramble as members can purchase tickets.

They get a slight queue jump.

So just before the next scramble in October

they have the chance to, if they've signed up

to get their tickets for January.

And they can just do that on your website.

Exactly, and then from the day after

the October scramble, so Monday the 6th of October

people will be able to purchase tickets

for the January event.

And if you go on a Monday the 6th of October

then you're likely to be able to get tickets.

Yeah, okay so that's what you need to do.

How do you keep people coming back?

Is there any chance that if you've done one

you've done them all or do you think

there's enough variety, there's enough change

that people are gonna want to just keep coming back?

We see a huge growth and change in what's happening

on the site day-to-day by value of the businesses

based at best emotions.

So whether it's changes with the race season

or whether it's changes with their stock

or cars going through workshops.

So the site is constantly evolving really day-to-day.

There is of course new businesses

and new specialists coming in as well.

So we're always looking to introduce new marks

and new names to the scramble audience.

And the same goes for partners.

So working with you throughout successive scrambles

has been so exciting and to be able to welcome you back

and your ever-changing display.

And to be able to talk to your listeners

about what you have coming up at the next

is always a fantastic opportunity.

So there is great change but there's also

sort of a reassuring, I suppose,

feeling of knowing the site to many people

who visit Bistimation at the scrambles

because it is such a wonderful evocative environment

and it was designed in the 1920s very much on a human scale

and the RAF knew what they were doing back then

and created this systematic design of bomber stations

which they rolled out across the UK.

And so the layout of avenues,

the fact that they planted 500 trees

and made people I suppose walk around the site

in the way in which they designed operationally

back then, you need to be able to get from buildings

to hangars to aircraft and train and get people up

in the air as quickly as possible.

The same system applies for moving people around events.

So here we are 100 years on and the site

is still operating exactly as it is made for it.

So we're very lucky to be the beneficiaries of the place

and we very much consider ourselves

as custodians of what was the RAF Bistim.

And as we evolve and commit to building

this incredible campus for automotive pioneers,

we are very much working with what the RAF built 100 years ago

and building it into it.

What was it when you walked in there on day?

What was happening?

There was anything going on there or was it just?

It was largely derelicts.

So the RAF had left the site in 1976

and it effectively locked the doors.

And parts of the site have been used by the US Air Force

during the Gulf Wars.

So historic, the car storage companies,

Hangout, for example, was a Gulf War contingency hospital

laid out with surgical stations and blood fridges

and decontamination showers.

Never used, thankfully.

I think the blood fridges are still in there somewhere.

So a remarkable part of more recent history.

And the airfield was active.

But the large number of buildings that people see today

were derelicts.

And so when I first walked around there

with Dan Gage and our CEO,

we were still pulling boards off windows

and trying to get into rooms and buildings

that we'd never been into.

And people hadn't been into it for something.

So there must have been a massive restoration job

that was required and presumably it

needs to be all very sensitive

because I guess everything was listed there.

Yeah.

So how long did that take?

Well, it's still going on, I guess.

Yes, it's still going on.

We've just released plans to restore the station headquarters,

which is as you come through the main gate

to the site of the first building on the right,

which is really one of the tools in the crown.

And so we're still going with the restoration of the site,

but we've gone through in phases

and there's been quite a lot underground

as well as above ground, putting in new services

and everything to supply the site.

But we've discovered amazing things in the buildings there

and parts of history and particularly things

like the involvement of Bista as a site

in the motorsport world.

And of course, Bista time with its history of Formula One,

Leighton House, and so on.

There's a lot more to unpick that we haven't discovered.

Wow, tell us about the plans.

What's the grand vision next 10 years or something?

And I'm not just talking about the site

that we're all familiar with, but the whole area

because there are big plans right around what is,

frankly, an enormous site, aren't there?

So we have a vision to create a 444-acre

world-leading destination for mobility, engineering,

and automotive pioneers.

That's our goal.

And you're occupying 20 at the moment.

We're occupying 20 acres.

Wow, goodness.

So we're in about 5% of the total learn-holding.

And Yassir's new building is the first building

which branches out beyond what the RAF called

the Historic Technical Sites where Bista Heritage

was formed.

And so Yassir's building is that statement of intent.

We've made 100 million pound commitment

to this master plan and are working our way

through the next stages of it.

So what happens next?

What can you tell us about?

What can we reveal?

So Yassir's building is in a part of the site called the Ranges.

It was literally the old military ranges.

So they had a rifle range there where they would effectively

tool up the aircraft and test aircraft machine guns as well.

And so there's no unexploded ordnance lying around.

No comment.

We've actually, the site was very delicately cleared

by the Ministry of Defense before they handed it

over to public ownership.

But nevertheless, we've had to be very careful

and make sure that as we work our way across the site,

we're doing it safely.

And so we've completed first the phase one of the ranges,

which is Yassir's headquarters.

The next step is phase two.

And building another four buildings sort of in line

with that part on the south edge of the site,

which if you drive around the Bista Ring Road

up to one of our events gates for the scramble,

you'll see a very smart, new,

high-quality, shiny building there.

And that really is the vision for what's coming next.

What else? What else is there?

Looking for, you know, five, 10 years.

Five, 10 years to tease us a little bit.

We currently have permission in hand

to complete about a million square foot

of new R&D test engineering development space

for exactly the type of businesses

that we've already discussed.

That includes developing new test facilities,

so test tracks as well.

Yeah.

And over the last few years.

You already have a test track,

but it's quite short, isn't it?

It's short, so it's about a kilometer in length,

but actually quite sort of quite fun.

It's tight and twisty.

No, I've been around.

So is there a plan to do something much more

on a much bigger scale?

Indeed, there is.

We're not anticipating full-on racing.

We're not Silverstone.

No.

It's not that kind of venue.

It's about allowing manufacturers and enthusiasts

and buyers to test products

and to get involved and understand technology.

So it's about a soft introduction to track activity.

It's not about high-speed racing.

It's about understanding what you're driving

and getting to grips with something behind the wheel.

Shall we give a bit of a shout-out

to some of the existing businesses in the technical side?

Absolutely.

Because we've been involved with quite a few of them.

You've mentioned Motorsport UK.

We've done a lot of work with Motorsport UK.

But there are so many.

Maybe we can just...

It's deeply unfair,

but maybe we can just pick out a few

and shine a bit of a light on some of those.

What springs to mind?

One of my absolute favourites is Kingsbury Racing Shop.

So they're a vintage Bentley specialist.

And they are a great case study, really,

for how businesses at Bistra are growing

and how we like to curate the site

with businesses of this type.

And Ewan, who runs Kingsbury Racing,

joined us as a one-man band about 11 years ago.

And he has since grown to, I think, a team of eight now.

He's expanded his workshop three times

and is using the latest CNC cutting-edge machinery

to create historic component parts for vintage Bentley's,

to keep these 100-year-old cars on the road,

but not just running, but to continue to set records,

to continue to win races

and to compete in events like Peking Paris around the world.

I know that when Bentley were doing their...

They did those continuation blowers and speed-sixes.

The Kingsbury was one of the suppliers for those projects.

So it just illustrates just what high esteem, clearly,

that they're held by the people who, you know,

where the company started.

Yeah, indeed they were.

They were providing drivetrain, breaking systems, gearboxes.

And I think they've created the engines

for the new speed-six projects.

It's really astonishing to see the quality of work

coming out of there.

And then in the workshop next door,

the vintage car radiator company

made all the radiators and fuel tanks for the same cars.

It's great.

It's a beautiful thing to see the harmony.

And also, it's just keeping those skills alive, isn't it?

Going down the generations.

Because if people stop caring or people stop

going how to, knowing how to do it,

then the skills would evaporate, disappear,

and be lost forever.

Well, that's an excellent segue into talking

about the Heritage Skills Academy,

which, again, pays next door to Kingsbury Racing.

They've designed the UK's Pre-Eminent Apprenticeship Program

for skills and training within the historic car world.

They have about 100 apprentices on site at any time.

Really?

Yeah, they are a remarkable business.

And they've since grown their facilities.

So they have two workshops at Bista

and another at Brooklands,

which is a fantastic connection in itself.

So they're the next generation of very much learning

in and amongst the potential employers

that they are hoping to find a career path with one day.

It's great to see how effortlessly, how comfortably

these small companies and the likes of Hero ERA,

which has a collection of beautiful historic rally cars

that you can go and hire for these amazing events

around the country and around the entire world.

And the likes of Sports Purpose, how those guys,

they sit so comfortably alongside Polestar,

which has a showroom at your place,

and the likes of Yasser, who you said are moving in very soon.

It just fits, doesn't it?

It just seems to work in a really cohesive, elegant way.

Was there anyone else that you wanted to shout out,

given the chance now?

How long have you been?

No, I think, well, let's talk at the other end

of the spectrum.

So Zero, for example, who are creating synthetic fuels on site.

They have reactors, which are running the entire time,

quite literally printing fuel,

which is still something that I can't quite get my head around.

You're the only one.

You put your code into the machine

and tell it whether you want Avgas or high octane race

fuel or diesel or something suitable for the aviation

or marine sector, and they create it.

And is there a pump on site?

Not quite yet.

That would be fantastic if there were.

They're still in the very early days,

but their way of scaling up is constantly evolving.

So within the next five to 10 years,

we should see something like that.

Goodness.

Can we also just do a little bit on,

I can't call it the little car company anymore, can I?

Headly studios.

So that place where they build the,

what do they build?

There's a Bugatti, there's an Aston, there's a Ferrari,

there's a Bentley, all sort of scale,

but purely functional, electric versions,

all done with the complete cooperation

of the original manufacturers.

I mean, I can remember the first time I went there,

I sort of went running around

all your little lanes on the site in,

I think it was in a DB5 and just having the best time.

Then I was out in the, out on the test track,

three-wheeling that electric testosterone around the place.

And then recently I was out in the,

what do they call it, the baby blur,

the blower junior, which is,

okay, it's not as big as a blower,

but it's still big, isn't it?

I think it's 70, 75% scale.

Yeah, so it's about the size of Volkswagen Golf.

Yeah, or a Mini.

Yeah, or a Mini, exactly.

And road legal.

And so we went up and down the road in that.

And that has just been one of the great success stories

of the site, hasn't it?

Well, they're a beautiful blend

of both ends of the spectrum.

Of course.

So being powered by the latest electronic technology,

but powering a hand-formed aluminum body,

coach-built, it's a beautiful blend.

Yeah.

I think also we, you know,

there's a few other businesses like Cyber,

we have to talk about it.

Who have just joined the site as their,

their UK technical center.

Obviously that changing to RDF one for next year.

Of course.

So purely demonstrates our position

at the center of Motorsport Valley.

Yeah.

That is extraordinary, isn't it?

So everything from people building vintage Bentley

engines to Formula One, all on one site.

Do you know what RDF one will be doing there?

Will they have engineers based there?

They've kept quite quiet about it.

So we'll find out more in due course,

but they will have people based on site.

Wow.

And have already set up their office

within our headquarters.

It's great, isn't it?

We need to discuss the intercooler headquarters at Vista.

Yeah.

But if you could move the site a couple of hours west,

that would be really helpful.

Well, listen, we need to start wrapping this one up.

But Phillip, thanks for coming in and telling us

all the latest at Vista Motion.

Because it's become a really important site

for the car community.

Because it is this open, welcoming place

where we can gather several times a year

and look at some great cars,

but also just get together and catch up.

And we love being there.

We're going to be there again, as I said,

on October the 5th.

So if you're going along, come and find us.

Where will they find us, Andrew?

Just inside the main gate.

There we go.

Look for the flags.

Just inside the main gate on the left.

If you come through the main gate,

although you don't come through the main gate, do you?

And if you're turning up the sky,

but you come in from the other end,

but we are on the main drag.

You're not going to be able to miss us.

We will have, I mean, we have had in previous scrambles

some of the most extraordinary collection of cars.

I particularly remember when

all the every single Ultimate Series McLaren,

including an F1, we had there.

And that was a fantastic moment for us.

And we're going to have to try and find a way of

at least meeting it, if not meeting it.

You set the bar pretty high with that one.

That was reasonable, wasn't it?

We never should have done it.

We should have just turned up with some VW Golfs or something.

Given ourselves a bit of wriggle rub.

Oh, well, it's done now.

It is done now.

Yeah, I mean, we're really,

we're delighted to be a media partner with Bista Motion

because the key thing for me, though,

is that that's a benefit, not just to us,

but to everyone listening to this podcast,

everyone who subscribes to the intercooler,

because it means we can bring you really interesting stories

and podcasts and it means we can get you guys involved

and come along to the site

and get together.

And that's the thing that I'm really excited about.

And we don't, and we've said this so many times,

we do not partner up with anybody

who we do not think is appropriate for you lot.

It's all like-minded individuals,

people who are all in it for the right reason,

love cars, love the entire business of surrounding

automotive and yeah, we couldn't be happier.

Philip, thanks for coming in.

Great to catch up.

We'll see you again soon.

And to everybody watching, everyone listening,

if you're watching on YouTube,

please subscribe to our YouTube channel.

If you're just listening,

make sure you follow the show,

hit the little plus button or the follow button.

It really helps us and in return,

we'll be back with another podcast next week.

We'll see you then.

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