Porsche Profits Are in the Tank

Welcome to the Vans podcast. I'm Dan.

I'm Nick.

And we're both old enough.

We're both old now.

Good Lord.

Happy birthday.

Yeah.

Are you going to be positive about it?

Embrace the future.

It is the day all my problems started, but I'm still here.

I went to bed last night.

Fine.

I woke up and somehow I pulled something.

So, and, you know, not to be worried.

I wasn't doing anything.

My wife and I both went to bed, went to sleep.

So I'm not really sure how.

That's how it happens.

It's when you stop doing stuff.

Well, I mean, I've been trying to pick up the, you know, exercise and do more.

And I didn't, I didn't do anything.

I haven't done anything that would facilitate the pain of not being able to care for myself

in the bathroom.

So I put that lightly.

So you heard it here first, folks.

Get up a day.

Yep.

We tried to tell you.

Oh God, that would be nice.

Right?

I don't know if I'd come out.

Go to Costco.

You'd see.

The problem is you have to, you have to have power in the bathroom.

Yeah.

I mean, you can run an extension cord to it.

Oh, that, I'm sure my wife would love to see it.

I wonder if the, if the extent, the fear and, and ugliness of the extension cord would be

overruled by the comfort of having it a day.

You mean a nice heated seat for yourself?

Yeah.

It's like heated seats in your car.

Once you have them, you don't really want to not have them ever again.

And then, you know, me, I probably end of the middle of the night trip over

and then hurt myself.

And then.

Well, maybe tape the cord out of the way.

Ah, that's no fun.

How are you supposed to injure yourself if you don't do something?

I do have some nice cord keeping brackets.

It's, it's, you know, it's temping.

I mean, I have, I did look at that at Costco and everything.

God, Costco's a zoo right now.

I know.

I'm going there later.

Are you?

Yeah.

Go there before November 1st.

Yeah.

So, what else is new with you?

Um, boy, not too much.

We took it pretty low key this weekend.

One of our friends at Salish had dinner and that was really good.

I wanted some good salmon and nice view.

Well, that new, that new remodel they did sure is nice.

I haven't been there since.

It's really pretty.

We have planned to go a couple of times and things happened.

Dog was sick.

You know, we didn't feel good, but it was random.

And then I, I don't, I don't, you didn't really know it,

but I saw you twice on, I think it was Saturday.

Yeah.

I saw you in the Bronco and then as random as it was,

we were coming in them in row after doing some shopping.

And I was like, there can't be that many Audi R8s with,

with light bars.

By the way, it looks great.

I love light bars.

Yeah.

Uh, thank you for the gift, by the way.

Oh yes.

And the drink, as we say, that started rain city.

That's right.

It is actually.

It is the drinks.

Yeah.

Garb made me a laser engraved plaque of Sean and I in the Bronco.

I'm not going to lie.

That's pretty cool.

It is pretty cool.

I find it interesting though,

that they didn't put any of the branding on there.

Like legally, I don't think they're able to, but.

Well, he used the photo.

I know, but he didn't have it.

He didn't have it made though.

Oh, he made it himself.

It's the RTR grill.

It's just the way it rendered it.

Oh, okay.

Cause it's like you take an image.

Do you have a laser?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

So you just get wood and you cut it to the shape you need.

And that's the base.

And then you can just set your engraving.

It's pretty cool.

And it's made in India.

Yeah.

It's good.

Okay.

No, that's cool.

Okay.

I thought he had it made in like they were like, we can't put any branding

on here.

No, it's got his own laser engraver.

Okay.

Pretty cool.

Who doesn't?

Right.

They've come down in price quite a bit for now.

Those and 3d printers and.

Yeah.

You're reclining the seat back.

I'm going to.

I just had to get there first.

I had to get there first.

Recliners in the shop.

Yeah.

Really glad I did this.

Yeah.

Believe me.

Thanks for a great new studio space.

Yeah.

Do you have a fun tip for us?

I do.

Okay.

So this sort of came as I was going through some old photos actually.

And I saw, I have some photos on my R7.

I was looking at my FD.

I still love that car the way it looks.

Still miss Papa headlights.

There's a lot of nostalgia in that car there.

But I want to talk about that as a Carter tip was why do apex seals fail?

Why do rotary engines fail?

We joke about it a lot.

We talk about it a lot.

You know, the best rotary engine is an LS swap.

If you want to drive it.

So it's, it comes down to two things.

Turbo cars go through apex seals about twice as fast as naturally aspirated cars.

They're more volatile.

And, but what really kills apex seals is lack of lubrication.

Do we have a general definition of what an apex seal is?

So rotary engine, rotary being a triangle of the, you know, it's spinning spinning Dorito triangle in the engine.

And on the tips of that triangle are apex seals.

Think of them as the same thing as piston rings.

Just wanted to clarify.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so, but as the nature of a rotary is that it does consume a little bit of oil every time.

It's, it's just by nature.

It needs lubrication inside that cylinder and it scrapes that oil around and it burns it a little bit.

Not as much.

It's not like burning oil like you would in a car that has no piston rings, but it does burn oil a little bit.

And they need oil changes a lot more frequently than modern cars.

They need oil changes about the same interval as older cars, which is about 2,500 to 3,000 miles under heavy use about 2,000 miles.

So you will use the harder you are on the throttle, the more boost you throw on that engine, the more fuel you put in that motor,

the more heat it's going to generate and the more it's going to burn oil.

Even on modern oils, today's oils, I know back in the day when those cars, they were a little different.

Think of it more like a two stroke in the sense that it's part of the lubrication system is in the fuel.

It mixes that oil in the fuel.

It burns that oil.

Not a lot.

Again, you mean these cars were still passing emissions way back in the day.

So it's not some crazy amount, but it is what kills rotary engines.

And they are more susceptible, rotary engines in general are more susceptible to overheating from the way the coolant runs through the engine in those jackets.

And the way, especially with RX-7s, you had those twin sequential turbos on one side of the engine.

You had a huge heat build up coming out and they run at high RPM.

I guess by standards now, not really, but at the time a motor pushing 7,000-8,000 RPM was really high,

especially way back in the 90s.

And the RX-8s, I mean, had the same problems even being naturally aspirated,

but that's the common failure with Apex Steels though.

Well, they typically need to be rebuilt a little over.

If you're lucky, you get 100,000 miles out of one with really good maintenance and you haven't done a bunch to it.

Problem is, everybody did a bunch to it.

Everybody had an intakes and exhausts and bigger injectors and we didn't...

Huge snails.

And we were right at that CUSBO OBD-2 coming and so we had all these tuners and like...

And when one of those goes, it's not like a piston ring where you wear it down.

I mean, you'll know when Apex Steels is going bad because it's burning more oil.

You'll see it burning out of the tailpipe and it'll sputter.

It'll be hard to start because you have lower compression.

Problem is when they go, they often catastrophically go.

And so when they dislodge from the end of it, think of it like a piston ring unseating inside of the same...

Starts banging around inside.

Yeah, except you've only got two rotors in a modern...

So when one goes, it has to go somewhere and it usually goes right into the wall of that,

well, quote-unquote cylinder or rotor housing.

Or it comes out the exhaust and eats your turbo.

All good options.

Yeah, all good options.

Or if you overheat, you get the same problem as you get expansion and things go out around.

Like it's pretty catastrophic failure.

It's a very small engine, 1.3 liters.

It's very tiny.

The size of a milk crate is physical size, but it's not that light actually.

An LS swapped RX-7 is once you remove all the other crap that goes with the rotary, about the same weight.

Larger physicals face, smaller lower weight.

Okay.

So because you've got that huge eccentric shaft down the center, which is...

I mean, it's basically the crankshaft where these things ride on.

It weighs a lot.

The rotors weigh a lot.

The housings weigh a lot.

The cast iron, like things like that.

So anyway, but apex seals at the end, they go bad when you're typically low in lubrication.

You don't change your oil enough.

And you often need to add oil between.

The more performance you're pushing through those, the more oil you're using, typically.

And there's a reason these things never really caught on.

They're a cool concept.

I like that they're a novel approach to an engine.

They're something different.

And I like that about them, but I'm still not a fan as someone who's been through several engines.

It's just...

I think they're pretty when they're sitting there.

I love the car.

No, I mean the car.

I'm talking about rotary engines, like looking at a stock rotary engine and seeing how small it is.

It's a very pretty idea.

Obviously, you know, the joke is with these cars, with Mazda's and the fact that if you want to make it more liable, you put a Chevy engine in it, you put a Ford engine in it.

Right.

Kind of thing.

But aesthetically, they're very pretty.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

No.

And they had the weight, because of the size, they helped keep the weight pretty far back in the engine bay.

So they gave them a good balance because you had such a short engine and you just had a big intercooler and radiator up front.

But the most of that mass was behind the front shock towers.

Strut tower, excuse me.

And so, they handled pretty well.

And with that, they had, they were pretty lightweight cars, so they made pretty good speed.

But again, yeah.

The risk of failure is high.

They require a lot.

They can't...

You can't just get in and drive one like a normal car.

And I think that was the problem with the American market, especially now and why it's odd to me that Mazda's even considering bringing it back.

Because it's not a car that you can't pay attention to.

You really have to keep your eye on the fluids.

You have to listen.

You have to know what sounds that you're hearing.

It doesn't work for most of America that just wants a car that they can get in.

It starts.

It goes a million miles.

If I forget to change the oil, I end up on, you know, just rolled in and...

Sure.

Yeah, right.

Fair enough.

So, yeah.

So, I mean, I was...

You know how it is, you...

When we do research for the show, you end up going down a rabbit hole kind of thing.

Interesting topics tend to come out, things like that.

One of the topics I want to talk on is the fact that a lot of the car companies are starting to listen to us a little bit.

Subaru, Infiniti, things like that.

But I went down this first rabbit hole.

One thing that we have not talked about on this show, we've talked about the back country discoveries.

We've never talked about the trans-American trail.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And if you don't know, this is kind of a neat little fact.

Ford got together with them and they actually Google Street viewed the whole road this year.

It's like 6,000 miles.

It is.

It's like a Bronco, a stock ranger and expedition, which was kind of cool, I thought.

So, you can actually go on Google Street view now, or Google Earth is what I meant.

Google Earth.

And you can see the whole route.

Dan talks about it 100 times about when we try to plan routes and we talk to people who've been on motorcycles,

or if it's been mapped, that's a great way to see, like, can I get through there?

Will this work?

So, kind of a neat thing.

What came out of that is I started to watch a bunch of interviews with Jim Farley, who is the CEO of Ford.

And Chris Farley's cousin.

And they look alike.

Thank you for just taking that away.

That was one of my facts.

Would you like to redo this?

No, no, no, not at all.

That's literally what I had.

They look alike, which is funny.

They do.

They were doing an interview with him as he was talking about, he took his son in a lightning

and went down California and realized that they didn't have charging stations,

which led to him calling Elon out of the blue to try to get use of those things.

And they did.

But it was like, he was talking in the interview, he's like, yeah.

And they were like, oh, road trip, just like your cousin.

And I was like, oh, there's no way.

Yeah.

I had no idea that him and Farley were cousins.

And if you don't know this, Jim comes from a long line of people that worked for Chevy

and Ford and things like that.

And he went to work for Toyota and his family did not really like it.

It's kind of an interesting process to hear where he came from.

But, you know, and Ford is now pushing towards these small electric trucks.

And it'll be interesting to see what actually comes of that.

It was just sort of one, the street view thing was was neat because if you're not

an off-roader, you can now get on there and you can see what the back roads of

going across America look like.

Yeah.

He's an interesting guy in general.

Like obviously he's eats, sleeps and breathes the industry.

He puts his, he tends to be, he takes the Toyota approach of really getting

in the driver's seat of a lot of the vehicles they have.

Like he's done, I was at the Bronco Raptor off-road and they had

pictures of Jim there.

Yeah.

Like doing the rodeo.

He goes out and tests the vehicles.

Yeah.

Like Ford makes.

Yeah.

Pretty, I like him as a, just in general.

Like he's just interesting to listen to.

He seems to be a good guy from what little I know about him from the media.

But I follow his Instagram and I look at his stuff and I like some of the stuff

he has to say.

He imported, and I don't know the whole story.

He imported a Chinese electric car.

Oh, yeah.

He drives a Xiaomi SUV.

Yeah.

Xiaomi is, that's the proper pronunciation I know.

I'm glad you knew that.

I didn't.

Yeah.

But it's, it's X-I-O-M-A-I, I think.

Xiaomi is, I've heard a lot of Americans say, or Xiaomi, but it's actually

Xiaomi.

They're popular for making everything in China.

It's electronic, and phones, and everything.

Some pretty cool features in that car.

If it wasn't for the 100% tariffs on Chinese vehicles, they would be a

real threat to American cars.

The Tesla and Rebel.

In general.

Because it's, I think it's, you can get one over there pretty loaded

for less than 60,000.

Like literally.

And they have a lot of standard features.

Power everything.

You know, they self-driving.

It's not as good as Tesla's, but it's definitely there.

They have, you know, heated and cooled seats.

Like all that stuff you'd expect in a luxury vehicle, but in the

sub 60,000 mark.

And in the electric car market, if you looked at it, there's only a

handful of vehicles in that.

It can be done, people.

Yeah.

Like or dislike China and the things that are going on.

It can be done.

Well, I mean, government subsidized factories, the government's

putting a lot of money into that through taxation.

They have their own economy troubles.

It's not all roses over there, but it is, you know, when you

have a government subsidized workforce that has paid very

little, you can get a lot done.

Weird.

Yeah.

Agree with that or not.

That is how they're doing it.

And so that's why it's a real threat and hence why you

get cheap TVs.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I think the automotive market is changing.

One of the things that came out this week that Dan and I

actually were laughing about and we don't really, she talked

about comedians on here.

But if you've ever heard of the female comedian, Eliza

Schlesinger.

Yes.

So she teamed up with Jeep and I don't know if I can

really, I don't know how much of it I can actually talk.

Go look for it.

I mean, it is a fantastic ad.

If you don't know, the Jeep Grand Wagoneer was rated by

Jalopnik, the number one car to have sex in.

Yes.

And it was sort of a joke.

It was a joke.

But Jeep saw it and with what's his name coming back in

as the CEO of Ram and Jeep and all that.

Yeah.

They ran with it and they did a, it's probably a

four minute commercial, three and a half, four

minute commercial.

Watch it.

You will laugh.

I mean, she is funny.

She always has been funny.

If you know comedians, she's the party goblin.

She's the CFO.

She is the CFO.

Oh, the chief financial offer.

Sure.

Chief fun officer.

Fun officer.

Yeah.

So I just really got to applaud them.

Like I said, I think that's, you know, we're seeing

some, some life obviously in the car community,

things coming back, you know, the RHO going away

and getting back to the TRX and things like that.

And it's going to be interesting.

I posted it on my Facebook page.

If you just go look up Jeep commercial, it will come up.

Watch it.

Do not watch it around children.

Just in case it's all about how Jeep is good at

making babies.

Basically.

So yeah.

Yeah.

That was a, I like you were saying, I think that is a

really, it marks a really good shift for

Stellantis.

Yes.

That's what that's the word I was looking for.

Which is basically, you know, they've been

circling the drain for years and it's nice to see an

actual cultural shift and them getting back to it.

It's just a funny commercial.

But at the same time, it's not insulting though.

Like, you know, we talk about, somebody said this

week, and I forgot who it was in the news that we're

kind of getting out of cancel culture, which I'm

fine with, you know, the idea that you're able

to have an opinion, you know, minus a racial

opinion.

20 years ago you said.

Yeah.

You tweeted.

Yeah.

Come on.

It's dark coffee.

Well, okay.

Well, you know, decaf hates you now.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Like I said, it was funny.

It's out there.

It's gotten a great response.

I haven't seen a lot of negative.

I'm sure there are people out there that are

offended by it, but that's life.

So yeah.

Exactly.

One of the things I want to talk about is, you

know, the car companies that are, that are

kind of listening to us.

Xfinity.

I've seen one of them in Subaru as of today, too,

but X, boy, that's going to be in my head.

Infinity came out with a concept, which is the QX-80

R-spec.

And if R-spec and infinity sound similar, it's

because R-spec means that they put a GT-R motor

in basically their biggest SUV.

Yes.

And it's decent looking.

Like, and it's something that I think we've

talked about on the show, things like this

would sell.

Like we were talking about the LX and the

GX and things like that.

That's an actual off-road model.

There it is.

So this is not an off-road model.

This would be a...

No, performance street model.

Getting you to the store in no time, GT-R

SUV.

You know, I still, they did make it

technically, if you could get one, the

Juke Nismo R.

True.

Which is what I want to see more of from...

Nissan.

Well, from companies in general.

I wish they would make more fun

products that were actually kind of niche

and that just not on the normal mainstream

market.

Yeah.

The problem is I was happy to see it.

I was also surprised to see it from a company

that is another one totally circling the

drain.

I'm like, cool, but you're not really

bringing your product to market that's

going to put you guys...

Thanks for showing us something we're

not going to be able to buy.

Yeah.

Like, you guys can't even put out a

new GT-R a little.

Yeah.

So I'm glad.

Like I said, I wish more companies would do

it.

I'm a little surprised that they, of

all companies, would do it.

It's probably not the best use of,

you know, dollars that could be,

as you said, they're circling the drain.

What I did want to bring out is Subaru

came out with a new STI hatchback

concept today.

And they've been listening to people.

Not only is it a manual, it's got the

big wings on it.

It looks like an old hatch.

It's got, they brought back the

differential switch in the middle

that you could do that.

Oh, I like that.

And everybody in the Subaru market

and in the world is kind of going,

yeah, you should make that.

Like it looks to the point where

it's not an ugly Subaru.

It's not like...

And if you don't know...

It's not a CVT with paddles.

We've got some good responses,

by the way, on this week's episode,

because people are like,

that's stupid CVTs.

But it shows that they're kind of

listening.

We've talked about this in the past.

Subaru is bringing out the new

outbacks and the new foresters and

especially the outback wilderness

and stuff.

And they're hideous.

They're absolutely...

Yeah, they're really nice.

I haven't even seen any that have

hit the shores yet.

Like I'm on the road.

So I don't know if maybe they took

some of the...

It took a little far with the plastic

cladding.

Let's put that one.

Yeah, I mean, it's...

Not a huge fan.

And I'm a Subaru fan.

Yeah.

But it shows that...

And several commenters have said,

I've watched several videos on this

car and the fact that Subaru listened.

Like because the classic

Subaru STI hatchback was huge

because people put the wings on,

they put the wide body kits on.

They were good looking cars.

The engines were somewhat reliable.

Kind of like the Rotaries as long as

you cared for them.

But it kind of shows that maybe

they're listening.

Yeah.

So one of the things...

Yeah, let's talk about that.

So I think what's happening is

yes, they are listening.

I don't think they have the ability

to listen before.

The government was telling what

they had to do.

They had to shift all their

marketing, all their tooling into

cars people didn't want.

The vast majority of people didn't

want.

It didn't suit the lifestyle of

anybody who didn't live outside

of a major metropolitan area,

which is a lot of the U.S.,

but it's still a lot...

You know, the other half is not.

And that other half also wants cars.

And even most people in the city

weren't that thrilled on electric

cars.

It's 10%.

So if you're catering to the 10%,

you're not going to make a very good

market share unless you have a

very expensive, very niche product

and that 10% is willing to spend

a lot of money on it.

For our owners.

Yes.

For our owners.

That said, that's a great

transition.

Yeah.

Porsche released their results and

they are in the tank.

What do I...

Hardcore in the tank.

That's not good.

It's a total mystery, isn't it?

But there's all these new GT3 RSs

on the road and in the river.

Yeah.

So after years and years and years

of price gouging and pricing people

out of the market and insane ADMs

and people just giving up

because they're in a very uncertain

economy if you haven't noticed,

you know, the 30,000 Amazon

last just happened.

It's basically been three years of

layoffs in the tech industry.

That trickle down effect has killed

a lot of these luxury markets

very quickly.

People are...

Those are your buyers.

Yeah.

Those are your buyers and they

are uncertain about that money

coming in.

And I'm right there with them.

I'm not going to go make any

expensive vehicle purchases right

now.

I'm going to go put my money

away and invest in the things

that are safe, which is not

buying fun sports cars.

As much as I would like to,

you got to think a year in

advance and play it safe.

There's just times to roll and

times to not.

This isn't one of them.

So as a result, Porsche's

earnings are totally in the

tank, like really in the tank,

concerning levels of in the

tank.

Well, also they took their

customers and Ferrari does this

too, this pay to play stuff

like, oh, you want a GT3 RS?

You have to have bought a

Boxster, a GT4, a GT4.

You have to have bought all

these cars before we're going

to even offer it to you.

But then they go and they'll

just give the car to some

random YouTuber because, you

know, publicity.

Yeah.

Which I don't think helps the

market because people that

want to get into there don't

want to pay that much.

They want, yeah, they want a

new GT3.

They want a GT3 RS.

They have the money, but

maybe they're a new Porsche

customer.

Yeah.

And the clout chasing market

is dying quickly.

Yeah.

Real quickly because people

just aren't that impressed

anymore.

Like people just don't care.

I mean, if you don't drive

a car for yourself, you're

going to be very disappointed

very quickly because that,

you will have a never-ending

need to keep up.

You will always be, you know,

behind the guy in the, you

know, the GT2 RS if you've got

the GT3 RS and you're not

really, nobody cares except for

you and the guy with the GT2 RS

maybe.

And you take the stickers off,

nobody can really tell.

Yeah.

And like, no, they're both

amazing bad-ass cars.

I'm going to be real happy

in the driver's seat any of

them.

Or passenger seats.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

But, you know, if you

think about how small the

market that actually is and

now that market is shrinking

and it's shrink, it's not

just shrinking, the market

is changing as people get

older.

Like the people that are

buying those cars were

getting old and now the us

market is saying, I don't think

I want to spend $350,000 on

a $200,000 car.

Yeah.

And I don't want to spend

$500 either.

So they're like, maybe I just

won't be a Porsche customer.

Maybe I won't pay the ADM.

I mean, does, so Porsche

does it.

I mean, within that group,

does, does Audi do that?

I don't see Audi really.

Only on the, what was the

one they had, the RS6

special edition they had.

Oh, okay.

That was the one I saw go

for like an insane ADM.

And a few dealers, I mean,

but I mean, and in the day,

you could walk into an Audi

dealership and you could

order an R8.

Oh yeah.

And yeah, they weren't,

there wasn't any GT.

Just the GT.

Yeah.

The GT had a little bit.

And there was, you know,

COVID pricing aside, that was

a pretty odd practice until

COVID.

And I think everybody just

kind of went wild with it

in COVID.

And instead they, they all

took that short-term gain

and that long-term loss.

And this is where you're

seeing that long-term loss

is coming back faster than

they think because the

economy shifted so much.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's interesting,

because like we were talking

Porsche and another thing

I want to talk about is Ferrari

because they just came out

with a new model,

which is the Ferrari SC40.

And if you've never heard

of that, it's because there's

one in the world

and somebody went to Ferrari

and said, I don't like

what you're doing with cars

and I want to design my own

car.

And they threw enough money

down on the table

and they built.

Some are calling as a modern

tribute to the F40,

which is kind of a stretch.

It's built on the 296 chassis.

It looks.

So I read the same thing.

Yeah.

It's supposed to be an F40 tribute

kind of car.

Yeah.

The wing is 40-ish.

Yeah.

It reminds me more of a Lancia

Stratos, we imagine.

It does.

With F40 kind of bits on it.

But this is interesting to

me because Ferrari is so

protective of their brand

and obviously this was done

with Ferrari.

So they had to get past

Ferrari.

But I mean, you know,

Ferrari right now is

and has been,

if you don't know

who dead mouse was

in the way he wrapped his

Ferrari and Ferrari sued him

because, you know,

and Ferrari has this

idea in their head that

just because you buy their car

that they still own it

and they have the right,

you know, you're not allowed

to modify it, things like that.

Lamborghini on their

hand is, here's our car,

paint it whatever color

you want, have a nice day.

Yeah.

But something like this

is intriguing to me

because there's been other

people that have done it.

Eric Clapton did it.

I think it was a 430

or a 458 that they

redid for him.

Right.

Yeah.

Eric Clapner,

but

it brings up the idea

that somebody comes in

and goes, okay,

I don't like what you're making.

And they're saying it

to a brand that

basically looks at everybody

else and says,

you have to like what

we're making.

You're going to eat it.

And I realize this

after looking at it.

It's not as one-off

as you think

because they also introduce

that latest Testarosa.

Yeah.

And it looks very much

like a Testarosa,

which is based off

the 296

or the SF90,

I think one of them.

But it's a different market.

I mean, that's

a FU money kind of thing.

I can't even imagine

what that car costs to develop.

Yeah.

Some oil money,

like most of the 430s

have always done.

No, I get it.

But it'll probably

never see the road.

You know,

you throw enough money

at anything

and it's not so special

anymore.

Isn't that weird?

Yeah.

I don't know.

It's just something that's

sacred.

It's sacred.

The nothing's sacred.

But is anything

obtainable?

I mean,

anybody can have

a wood burner now.

Right?

Anybody.

Anybody can have a wood burner.

Some people

that probably shouldn't

have wood burners.

You and I.

Yeah.

We would definitely

start a fire for fun.

For fun.

Yeah.

How many watts can

he go up to?

Obviously,

to circle back

to this,

like Ferrari is

the classic one.

You can't even

get near their

hypercars,

unless you've bought

them.

You know,

to a point,

a lot of those collectors,

some of them here,

that's what they do,

which,

if you're in the

Ferrari brand

and you love the

Ferrari brand,

it makes sense

to buy a 296,

to buy the Roma,

to buy this,

to get up to the

SP3,

to get up to the,

what is it,

the F80 now.

But some of these

people,

I've seen so many

people that

really can afford it

and want to play

in the Ferrari brand,

but Ferrari

doesn't want to play

to keep it.

No.

Like they bring it,

they decide when you drive it,

they, you know,

so,

I think,

obviously we're dealing,

this is not

Hyundai we're talking about,

that Hyundai goes,

well, hold on.

Ferrari makes a pretty

unique experience

for their owners,

when you really

want to play in the

race car field,

you want to

breathe that

rarefied Italian air.

They make a pretty

amazing experience.

The owners are there

and they've had that

loyalty for years

because of that.

There's an

exclusivity to it.

Even when I've,

you know,

I've been able to

afford a Ferrari

for a while

and I still

have no desire to own one

because I just

don't want to spend the

return on the money

for the value of what

I would get out of it.

I just don't care

enough.

I just want to go

drive.

It's funny because

one of their biggest

critics is Jay Leno.

I know.

None of their cars

because he

will not pay to play.

Yeah.

He wants to

drive a car to

drive a car.

That's why he has

such a great

Ferrari I've driven

and I've been

extremely fortunate.

Okay.

No, I still like the

sound of it.

But I mean,

I hated driving it.

I did not.

Yeah, I did not

like the Roma,

but that was a pre-production

car.

But I mean,

the ones I've been

fortunate enough to

get behind the wheel of

especially their manual

cars, even their

slow 80s cars

and trust me,

all 80s

Ferraris are slow

if you drive anything

modern, but they're

still great.

They sound amazing.

They've got a

unique feel to them.

It's a Ferrari.

At the end of the day,

it's a Ferrari.

And I get that.

It's just, you know,

to me and I think to

more and more buyers,

they're just like,

I'm just not really

into the name brands

anymore.

I'm into what it can

do for me as a car

is something to

drive.

I don't care whose

names on it.

And it amazes me

and we've talked

about this, too,

is the reliability.

Lamborghini,

Ferrari,

these high-end brands,

Pagani,

as much as

they are beautiful

sculptures,

well, if you drive them

all the time,

there's constant issues.

They're not really

built to be

high-mines cars.

Yeah, the

Huracan's the exception.

That's different.

Yeah, I agree.

That's a workhorse.

That's an R8 in disguise.

Yeah.

And this is where

Porsche really does

well, though.

We can go back to

that.

Porsche really does

well at making

relatively reliable

cars.

They've had a few

one-offs.

Their early

was the

997.2 GT3,

which had an

impending motor failure

little issues.

But for the most part,

you know, you can daily

a 911 Turbo S

and spank the pants

off anything on the road,

drive it over the pass

and go skiing with it,

drive it to work the

next morning,

which is pretty amazing.

But it's still not

$400,000

amazing to me.

It's

$150,000

amazing.

And

that's kind of

where I draw the line.

You think the numbers

that we put on

what we think something

is worth

are slanted

because of our experiences?

They're slanted

because of our income.

And I mean,

like, if I was making,

you know,

eight figure income,

I don't know if I would

care that much

if my car was $400,000.

Okay.

Because to me,

it's, you know,

if you think about

the sliding scale,

but, you know,

there's not a lot of people

making eight figures

and that number

is getting smaller.

So, I mean,

if I was in that

bracket,

I wouldn't care.

I would go buy

the car I want to buy

and I wouldn't really

care what I paid

for it.

If I, you know,

if I didn't think

it was going to impact

my other investments

or my other day life,

I would have

a different opinion

and I realized that.

Well, and a lot of those

people buy those cars

as investments.

So, that's why they're

not driven.

You see these beautiful

collections.

And they're something

and they're very,

they were very good

investments.

And I stand

and Dan and I do

understand that

we're in an area

here in Washington

where most of the

collectors here

drive their cars,

which is kind of rare.

That is rare.

I mean,

it's really cool.

Yeah.

Doug named a driver's clip

for a reason.

Yeah.

Agreed.

There's a lot of cars

in there that get

really driven.

Agreed.

And I love that

those owners drive them.

There's one race car

in there that has

that has turn signals

that I would love

to see on the road.

I have tried

to get the owner

to do it.

I've asked

if I could do it

and that's the only

time he actually told

me no.

Yeah.

It was a fit issue.

He doesn't think

I'd fit in it.

Yeah.

We have some time left.

Yeah.

So this is just

an off the cuff question.

If you had a forever

car, what would it be?

Oh.

There's one.

I mean,

even if you've

never had it,

I'm not.

And you're just

talking about a car

that I would never sell?

Yeah.

Excluding the

McLaren F1.

Do I have to drive it?

Yes.

Car you drive.

So it's not just

consistently or just

in the garage.

No, no, no.

It's in your garage

for Sunday

because that car

you would walk out there

and never.

Stipulations, though,

in the fact,

is it something,

is there a monetary

value to it?

Is there a sentimental

value to it?

Is there a could be?

Sentimental wise,

I have the triumph.

The triumph.

Yeah.

I will never,

I will never sell that car,

even though it's

at the shop right now

and the bill is going

up and up and up.

Classic car ownership.

Yeah.

But what did you

say I couldn't have?

McLaren F1.

Why not?

Because everybody would

pick McLaren F1.

Oh, I see.

Okay, Farina.

After watching the McLaren

rally that just happened

in the tail of the

dragon and stuff like that

and the problems they had

because those cars don't

get driven,

I don't know if I would.

Yeah.

That's true.

That's a tough,

that's a tough answer.

Yeah.

I have not come

to a conclusion yet

because there's not

one car for me.

I would probably,

I think the one car

I want doesn't really

exist.

It would probably be

a converted 992

Carrera 4 GTS

converted to a

Turbo S spec

because I want the

Targa Roof.

I want something I can

just get in and go.

I don't want hybrid.

I want all-wheel drive

and the Carrera 4 GTS

comes in a manual,

a rev matching manual

at that.

And even though the

DSG or the PDK

in the Porsche

is fantastic,

probably the best

PDK ever driven,

especially in the 992,

the newer car

is just perfect.

I still think I could

get into that car

every day

or whenever

just a sunny day

and I think I would have

like the most perfect

long range

back road driving

experience in that car.

Top down,

snow comes,

put it up.

I think my answer

has three cars

and it's the Holy Trinity.

Carrera GT,

Clarem P1

and the Laferoi.

I think I'm the

only person alive

who would take the

over the Carrera GT.

I mean, they're both one.

There's something

the Carrera GT

wants to kill you more

than your Corvette wanted

to kill you.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And I think taming that

and knowing

that I have to drive it

every day

and knowing that

no matter how good

of a driver it makes me,

it will still...

And of those three...

It's a fantastic choice.

I think Carrera GT

would be right there.

I think that would be

my...

I've driven the

Clarem P1.

Amazing.

It's very

drivable.

But also I think

as weird as this is

and this is a very

simple thing,

if you're in a Carrera GT,

the seats are comfortable.

Like they're meant

to be comfortable.

Even the P1,

they're not that comfortable.

Laferoi,

they don't move.

You're locked in.

And I feel like

with Carrera GT

I can take the top off.

I can put the top on.

I would be comfortable.

I would be...

There's room in that.

If the top is on,

you still have some room

in the front trunk.

I could still take it

to the store.

God knows,

probably just only Medina.

Yeah.

But I think that

after hearing your things

like,

probably my head was

the Holy Trinity,

but then the Carrera GT,

I think that would be...

It's a great choice.

Ageless design too.

It's one of those

beautiful cars I ever made.

I think

does Ben still own his?

I don't know.

I remember one time,

one of the first

times I met Ben,

he had his

and he was talking about it.

And the way

he described that car

and how,

if you drove it

like you want,

just a calm drive,

it would be fine.

But if you,

I mean,

if you wanted it to be

the animal that it was,

it was that.

I mean,

and I just,

I think that car was just

ahead of its time,

you know,

obviously,

but the 918,

you're correct.

The 918 would be

an amazing car.

It's because it's livable,

more livable to me.

True.

Yeah.

No, I think the Carrera GT

is a more iconic car.

But also,

you got a ticking time bomb

with that hybrid system.

Well, I mean,

all these McLaren P1 owners

are having to replace their batteries.

Yeah.

Thank God they've come back

and they've come up

with a new battery for it.

But the hybrid system

scare me kind of thing,

but Carrera GT.

Yeah, I

can say,

I don't mind hybrids at all.

I think they're a fantastic car,

especially a drive.

I just wouldn't want one

for the forever car.

But it's a reliability issue.

Yeah.

I mean,

I know that

the Carrera GT

has a lot of issues,

but if it's something

that I'm putting

close to

1000 or 2000 miles a month on,

like,

yeah,

and it wouldn't be real great here.

No.

No, but

yeah.

If I have to have something

that converts

then that 90s Viper

that converted into

an off-road car.

That one.

The Viper Viper.

From the show Viper.

Yeah.

If you don't know,

if you don't know,

there was a Viper

and then he hit a button

and it turned into

an off-road Viper.

And so,

you can do anything in it.

Yeah.

I love that show

when I was a kid,

it's so terrible.

It's so bad.

You look back on it,

it just,

it aged even worse

than you even expected,

which makes it so fun.

Oh yeah, it's horrible, yeah.

And they painted it

silver for God's sakes.

Yeah, I think that would be,

I think that would be

my forever car.

I think, you know,

and then,

but

I have,

the problem is in my mind,

I'm like,

oh, but you're never

going to be able to go off-road.

You're never going to be able

to.

Out of other cars.

I'm just thinking,

I don't know what I would have

and never sell.

And I was like,

I don't know if there is one

that isn't modified to my liking.

I mean,

a BAC mono was the first thing

I thought of,

but I was like,

it's so unlivable

except for such extreme

circumstances.

Oh, also,

if we're saying stupid things,

my career GT would have

the comfort Apollo kit on it.

Oh yeah.

Because why not?

Why not?

Yeah.

Because I want to blend in.

That's what I want to do.

So,

yeah,

I think that would be,

that's it.

It was funny because

you were talking about porches

and I was like,

that classic Porsche,

like initially,

I thought nine five nine,

never been in one,

but I mean,

you know,

I thought that'd be a great car.

I mean,

and obviously,

this is very livable.

Yeah,

but I'd want to drive that car

more to be seen in it

than it would be to be.

I think you would get way

more attention in the

great GT.

Oh,

absolutely.

Huge margin.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think it'd be fun to get

some of the attention

for the nine five nine

bunch of old guys.

I was going to say,

you'd get it from

that guy.

I don't know.

That's a tough question.

I mean,

that's not a question

that hasn't come up

before in our life,

but no tough.

Like,

yeah,

I just say,

I mean,

there's so many good answers

to because there's cars

I would just want to have

because they're so beautiful.

I want to just keep looking

at them.

I want them in the shop

just to have them,

but I was listening to

an article

or listening to an article.

I was listening to a video

and somebody was talking

about this

and I don't want to be

this,

but somebody said that

I'm a 50 Raptor.

Yeah.

You will never go wrong

with having that truck.

Yeah.

Like the because you have

the truck,

you're going to be a Raptor

person.

You can do everything

you want in it.

It will go off road.

It'll be fun,

but it's a great daily

driver.

It's not the best I'm

managed, but like

something like that

in that category.

Yeah.

The only my only complaint

with it is it's too

large for a lot of

the off-roading here.

But think about it

where my career GT

matches.

And my green color

it's fun to spend money.

I'll never have

with a tan leather interior.

Oh, absolutely.

Look where they go with that

wood shift.

Oh, God.

Oh,

yeah.

Shelter green metallic

afford color on a Porsche.

Boy,

that would do it.

That would send some people

through.

Oh,

a hundred percent.

That'd be cool.

Either that or it'd be

and it's already been done,

but because I think

Solomon did it years ago,

but that Ruby stone red.

Oh, yeah.

That color is just

there's a.

It's an RS for

Avant in Ruby stone metallic.

OK.

And it looks beautiful.

Oh, yeah.

My car.

RS model out east in

Porsche colors.

That is where it's at.

I think I mean

they stand out.

Right.

Yeah.

I want to I want to drive.

This is an open and nobody's

going to do this.

I want to drive the new two

GT three RS.

Because I just want to

plenty of people.

They do not have common sense

if they're going to let me drive

that car.

No,

I want to drive that car like that

is something that

I have driven the

the older GT two RS GT

threes.

I've driven GT threes.

I've had the opportunity to

be in.

I mean, I remember the first

time I was in the GT three RS

was with is in the

driver's club GT three RS

for our birthday,

actually.

Oh, yeah.

Thank you, Amanda.

Long time ago,

but I just

I want to experience that

car.

But as much as

it's a track car,

I want to experience that car

in an everyday setting.

I want to because so many people,

there's so many people on both

sides that this is like,

you could drive it every day.

They're doing without the

comfort seats.

People are saying,

this is a race car.

You shouldn't do that.

But I'm in the middle.

I know you can.

That's my point.

You could as I'm saying

specifically,

we are the driver.

As I'm sitting here talking

about how my back hurts

from when I went to sleep.

Yeah, but they're pretty

comfortable.

So high end sports car seats

if once you find a fit

that's right for you,

and you can adjust the

padding on those so easy.

Like Porsches,

another great thing about

Porsche GT cars is that you can

really adjust everything.

And you can get the big

covers in it too.

The guy that loves

Senate seats.

Yeah, one of the most

comfortable seats I've ever

and they have no padding

in them really.

Huggy just right.

They do.

I'm just saying like what

people usually don't like

about the RS cars is

one, they're loud.

They have a lot less sound

insulation.

They're pretty jerky on

the shifting or notchy

because it's, you know,

it's an aggressive

transmission, but it's

a great car to drive.

We talk about all the things

we do.

I don't know if I would modify

that car.

If I was given that car,

there's somebody exhaust

that we know through

Facebook and stuff like that

that's in Florida that has one

in green with a dark leather

interior.

So like, yeah, yeah,

I would change the exhaust

out because it's I want to

open it up.

But that's it.

But it sounds good stock.

I kind of trust Porsche on

that.

I will be interested to see

the GT2.

That's it.

Yeah.

If I could just get the

factory sport exhaust, it

really doesn't need anything.

And if you're not going to

track it, you're not going to

change out the carbon ceramics.

You're not going to, you know,

get the factory optional half

cage.

I mean,

just ever since the I think

I showed you that video.

There's a guy that's in the

other ones and has been

dailying it every day since

he got it like a year ago

didn't clear brought.

So it has every and it's

it's gorgeous to me like

that's just a gorgeous

thing.

So yeah.

Who knows?

Well, hey, maybe they'll

become affordable.

There's a circle in the drain.

Yeah.

As always, I mean, put your

put your forever car in the

comments.

We're always curious.

Like I said, we and I really

want to say we we started to

get some really good

engagements in the podcast.

I started with the movie cars

this week.

We were talking about the

useless features in in cars

that came out.

I guess it was last week.

It came out today.

But, you know,

we'd like to hear these

things because it helps us

to kind of, you know,

take our opinions and talk

about yours and it makes it

fun.

Obviously, it's a big part

of the advanced community.

So yeah.

Yep.

Oh, and one more thing before

we go.

Big shout out to Chris and

Trista.

Yeah.

We I mean they got second

place second place.

That's in team velocity

second place.

So big shout out to team

velocity.

It was 99% them and 1%

the Ranger Raptor.

That's right.

Yeah.

Congratulations.

Yeah, they're they're

good at what they do.

Second place is no joke

in a rally that big.

No, that is awesome.

That's a lot of very proud

of them.

Love to support them.

I love seeing their social

media.

Yeah.

If you haven't followed them,

go follow them because they

did some stuff.

Apparently there's a like a

ball after the and they had

custom dresses made that were

amazing.

They love it.

So all right.

Well, I will I will link to

team velocity on here.

You can go support them

and you should because

they're part of your

advanced community.

They're doing cool stuff

and they're yeah,

they're doing great

in the big rallies.

Absolutely.

All right.

As always for the

advanced podcast, I'm Nick

and I'm Dan and don't just

get there.

Enjoy the drive.

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