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Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe on the Future of Rivian, EV Sports Cars, and Depreciation! THIS CAR POD! EP73
Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe on the Future of Rivian, EV Sports Cars, and Depreciation! THIS CAR POD! EP73
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About this episode
Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe joins the hosts at the Quail Motor Sports Gathering to discuss the future of Rivian, including insights on production challenges, the upcoming R2 model, and the impact of tariffs on the EV market. Scaringe shares his thoughts on the evolving automotive landscape, the importance of maintaining excitement in the EV sector, and how Rivian aims to differentiate itself with unique features. The conversation also touches on industry trends, consumer preferences, and the nostalgia surrounding traditional combustion engines, making for a compelling discussion on the future of electric vehicles.
Topics:
rivian production challenges
future of electric vehicles
upcoming r2 model
impact of tariffs
consumer preferences
maintaining excitement in evs
nostalgia for combustion engines
unique vehicle features
Cars:
Acura CL
Acura RDX
BMW 3 Series
BMW 5 Series
BMW M3
BMW M5
BMW M Coupe (E36)
Cadillac V16
Chevrolet Corvette
Dodge Charger
Ferrari F50
Ford Bronco
Ford F-150
Ford Mustang
Jeep Wrangler
Lamborghini 350 GT
Lotus Elise
Mercedes-Benz EQS
Mercedes-Benz G-Class
Porsche 356
Porsche 911
Porsche 914
Porsche Macan
Rivian R1S
Rivian R1T
Rivian R2
Tesla Model 3
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model Y
Tesla Roadster
Toyota 4Runner
Volkswagen ID. Buzz
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CHAPTERS:
00:00:00 THIS CAR POD!
00:00:20 The Quail
00:04:32 RJ Responds to Q2 Rivian Losses
00:09:49 Rivian Under Tariffs
00:12:00 Ford's New EV
00:16:25 Chrysler Goes Gas
00:24:01 Talk Cars
00:24:15 RJ's Volkswagen Corrado
00:27:03 The Rivian Sportscar
00:35:31 What About The Electric Sportscar?
00:46:38 How Fast Is RJ's Rivian?
00:49:23 Why Isn't RJ In The News Like Elon?
00:52:51 What Other Automotive CEOs Do You Admire?
00:53:59 RJ On The E39 M5
00:54:51 Market Report
00:58:25 EV Depreciation
01:00:26 Community Questions
01:00:46 What About A Rivian Wrangler?
01:02:31 What About A Gas Range Extender?
01:03:48 What New Quirks and Features Will Rivian's Have?
01:06:41 What Would You Rivian Restomod?
01:08:55 What Would Be The Rivian Halo Car?
01:10:53 Where Are The Original Rivians?
01:12:37 Final Thoughts
#dougdemuro #thiscarpod #carsandbids #rivian
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
"...vealed the CX concept, which is the future of the Corvette. >> Future of the Corvette. It's got a"
Car
Ferrari F50
"...re they excited about seeing 17 different Ferrari F50s or like after one or two were they bored?"
Car
Lamborghini Gt 350S
"of the line. >> There's like 17 Shelby GT 350s which I know is more up your alley."
Car
Shelby Gt 350S
"of the line. >> There's like 17 Shelby GT 350s which I know is more up your alley."
Car
Cadillac V16
"...on the engine is the W16. So, the new car has the V16, but they're continuing this W6."
Car
Acura Rdx
"...al that I'm most excited about, of course, is the Acura RDX. No, so sorry. RX. No, not the RDX. RSX, which"
Car
BMW M5
"...it somewhere. >> May have cast my vote for an E39 M5. >> There's a white two-door Mercedes wagon"
Car
BMW E39
"...mit it somewhere. >> May have cast my vote for an E39 M5. >> There's a white two-door Mercedes wagon"
Car
Rivian R1S
">> Are these trucks eligible? The R1T and the R1S. >> No, they are. So, under if you lease an"
Car
Rivian R2
"...ted. Uh we're uh we're coming up on the launch of R2 and R2 is for me you know R1 is like a labor"
Car
Tesla Model 3
"...rtainly two of them you would clearly say are the Model 3 and the Model Y and and they command"
Car
Tesla Model Y
"would clearly say are the Model 3 and the Model Y and and they command together around 50% market s..."
Car
Dodge Charger
"known it's coming for a long time, the Charger six-pack, which is the the Hurricane V6 powered C..."
Car
Porsche Macan
"... manufacturers who are saying okay Porsche saying Macan V is not selling TYON is not selling"
Car
Mercedes-Benz Mercedesbenz Eq
"selling TYON is not selling Mercedes-Benz EQ is apparently being pulled out of the the market um except"
Car
Porsche 914
"...sches and working on classic Porsches. And so the 914 cuz I could not afford the 356s I was working on."
Car
Porsche 356
"...rsches. And so the 914 cuz I could not afford the 356s I was working on. >> So I bought the thing I coul..."
Car
Toyota 4Runner
"...t didn't like in the years since then the the the 4Runner and the Gwagon and the Raptor and like and"
Car
G-Class Gwagon
"years since then the the the 4Runner and the Gwagon and the Raptor and like and and co happened and a..."
Car
F-150 Raptor
"...e then the the the 4Runner and the Gwagon and the Raptor and like and and co happened and adventure became..."
Car
BMW M3
"...astonished by this. When we were kids, you get an M3 and it's got rocker panels and it's got badges. I..."
Car
Ford Bronco
"...e doors to directly compete with the Wrangler and Bronco. That has been a shockingly strong segment. Wrang..."
Car
Volkswagen Id
">> What are your thoughts about this Volkswagen ID Buzz situation? >> It's a little different, but"
Car
Acura CL
"...that like at the end I was like let me go talk to CL. >> So what do you think if we we get all"
THIS CAR POD!
The Quail
RJ Responds to Q2 Rivian Losses
Rivian Under Tariffs
Ford's New EV
Chrysler Goes Gas
Talk Cars
RJ's Volkswagen Corrado
The Rivian Sportscar
What About The Electric Sportscar?
How Fast Is RJ's Rivian?
Why Isn't RJ In The News Like Elon?
What Other Automotive CEOs Do You Admire?
RJ On The E39 M5
Market Report
EV Depreciation
Community Questions
What About A Rivian Wrangler?
What About A Gas Range Extender?
What New Quirks and Features Will Rivian's Have?
What Would You Rivian Restomod?
What Would Be The Rivian Halo Car?
Where Are The Original Rivians?
Final Thoughts
Select text to request an explanation
[Music]
Hello and welcome to this car pod. I'm
Kenneth. I'm Philipe.
>> And today we have a special guest, Riven
CEO and founder R.J. Scarring.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> Welcome RJ.
>> Thank you for joining. This is a big
deal for us.
>> Huge.
>> We're sitting here at the Quail Motor
Sports Gathering or something. And we're
at the Rivian booth where we have all
sorts of Rivians around us. and we're
going to talk cars and we're going to
talk Rivian.
>> So, thank you for coming.
>> We got a whole big show
>> and we're going to start as we always do
with the news. You want to start?
>> Yeah. First, we're going to talk about
the quail in general. We've been walking
around all morning. Are there any good
reveals so far that you've seen?
>> Well, first thing point I want to make
is this has kind of become like the new
Geneva Motor Show. There's so many
reveals that are just happening. This
was just kind of an enthusiast show for
a long time and now it's like the place.
There's so many different manufacturer
releases. There's Bugattis. There's an
Acura.
>> Uh, Chevrolet revealed the CX concept,
which is the future of the Corvette.
>> Future of the Corvette. It's got a
cockpit that comes off. R.J., have you
seen anything that you like here so far?
Aside from the Rivians, which we'll get
to,
>> of course. Yeah, the Rivians look nice.
Um, it's funny. I was walking with my my
three sons, 976 age, and they're looking
around. They're saying, "Hey, Dad, is
that cool? That's cool." And I'm like,
"That's not cool. This is super cool."
>> Okay. Now, so what do we tell them now?
Oh, now we got to get into it.
>> What do we tell them is not cool?
>> Uh, other electric cars.
>> There's some beautifully, you know,
there's like wonderful historic vehicles
that are here and they're just, you
know, the the kids just walk by it and
I'm like, hey, that's that's right.
>> That's a 275 GTB. Like, take a second,
look at it.
>> Uh, and then they'll see some highly
modified thing and ask me about that and
I'm like, no, that's probably attention
to
>> man. Man, after my own. That's great.
Did Did they Were they excited about
seeing 17 different Ferrari F50s or like
after one or two were they bored?
>> Yeah, after one I think they were.
>> To be honest, I was too.
>> The F50 thing is crazy. They're
>> there legitimally 17 on the other side
of the line.
>> There's like 17 Shelby GT 350s which I
know is more up your alley.
>> Yeah.
>> Um Okay. So, but we want we're talking
news here and have there been any
specific debuts? There was the Bugatti.
>> Yes. So, the the Yes. So, the Bugatti is
the actually more the reveal of a
program. So, it's called their solitire
program where they're making oneoff cars
and which they've done before. But the
thing that was interesting to me, this
one's called the Bullyard, which is but
it's based on the engine is the W16. So,
the new car has the V16, but they're
continuing this W6.
>> That's based off the previous car.
>> Yes. And they're but they're going to
continue to use that for this program,
which I think is very interesting.
>> There is a new Lamborghini.
>> Is there? I thought it was like a
special edition.
>> It hasn't been revealed yet. Well, yeah.
I mean, it has an hour ago there. I
couldn't see it. We bumped into the
Lambo guy this morning and he said,
"Here's what it is. Here's what it's
called. But don't tell anybody I told
you that for another hour,
>> right?
>> I guess it's but what is it?" This, by
the way, doesn't come out till Sunday.
So, you're good.
>> Oh, okay. All right. There's no embargo
on this.
>> Just Just for clarity.
>> What is it called? The Phenomeno,
>> I think. So,
>> we haven't spent enough time.
>> We were busy. I was distracted by F50s.
>> The reveal that I'm most excited about,
of course, is the Acura RDX. No, so
sorry. RX. No, not the RDX. RSX, which
is a small EV SUV concept. You you must
be very frightened as as a maker of EV
SUVs.
>> I don't know, frightened. I think it's
great to see great to see things coming
out. Yeah,
>> this is a special event where there are
a lot of very cool cars being shown, and
those are a few of them. There are
others. I haven't checked out this
Corvette thing. They literally just
pulled the the wraps off it, so we'll
have to do that later. But that is kind
of our interesting uh vehicle news at
Quail, and there's still more happening.
>> Well, it's fun to be here. It's like
again it's kind of replaced motor show.
So it's cool to see it up close and be
around for it.
>> It's my first time here and it's wild
just to see both the cars that are here
generally your count included and then
what they're revealing and it's
automakers that I don't care about. Like
I care about the Rivian stand, the Acura
stand. Philip only likes the regular
brands. He's not into the
>> I'm into supercars. He's into regular
stuff and Doug is
>> and therefore this is not my event but
it is wonderful nonetheless.
>> Uh the parking lot here.
>> The parking lot very special. That's the
best.
>> It's really enjoyable. Yeah. Uh, in
fact, there is actually a parking lot
best in show award which you can vote
for. You go into the parking lot, you
take a look out there and you can write
in a thing and submit it somewhere.
>> May have cast my vote for an E39 M5.
>> There's a white two-door Mercedes wagon
with a
bizarre. It's like a It's like a wagon,
but it's a twodoor.
>> Some sort of custom thing.
>> Uh, okay. So, that's This is Quail News.
Let's talk industry news. Filipo, can
you can you give us some interesting
industry news? We have some real
questions for you. So, last week in the
podcast, we talked a little bit about we
filmed it right after Q2 results were
announced for for Riven, and we figured
we have you on the podcast this week.
You're the right man to ask. Uh,
obviously some increase in revenue
year-over-year. Q2. Uh, also a little
bit more more burn. What is the story
that you all are are telling around it?
What what led to that quarter
>> to to Q2?
>> To Q2. Yeah. Q2 is a challenge for us
because we had the significant drop in
production where um you if you look at
Q1 we produced around 14,000 vehicles in
Q2 we produced around six and the reason
for that significant drop was a lot of
really abrupt changes to the supply
chain and in our case we produce 100% of
our cars in the United States and of
course 100% of those are electric
>> so the export controls are on heavy rare
earth metals
>> yeah so effectively magnets
>> really hurt us because we we only make
electric cars and every electric car
needs magnets to make the motors. So,
um, we had to do a lot of work to come
up with a new supply chain and really
like dramatically shift how we were
sourcing a lot of material into our
motors. And so, we just had like a
abrupt slow down in production and you
know, the the nature of our business is
high fixed cost. So, the cost went up or
the cost stayed the same, but we weren't
you weren't spreading those costs across
a lot more volume. So,
>> uh, you know, we guided that the second
half of the year. We're going to
actually produce more vehicles in the
first half. Um, we think Q3 is going to
be a really strong sales quarter just in
part because of the ending of the $7,500
tax credit. So, a lot of folks are going
to be to get their EVs right now.
>> Are these trucks eligible? The R1T and
the R1S.
>> No, they are. So, under if you lease an
R1, you you qualify. So,
>> but yeah, so a bunch of sort of
compounding factors, but look, we're
couldn't be more excited. Uh we're uh
we're coming up on the launch of R2 and
R2 is for me you know R1 is like a labor
of many many years of love. R2's
benefits from an organization it's so
much more mature and so the everything
from how it's manufactured to how it's
serviced to the performance relative to
its cost is it's really really cool.
>> Yeah. I remember hearing was I was
reviewing the Q2 results that you guys
predict that tariffs will impact about
will cost about two grand or three grand
per vehicle you you sell which is
>> wild and I think we all often think
about tariffs as impacting cars that are
imported but as you said they're all
made in the US but it's still a
>> what 3% 5% to 5% impact depending on the
model that's notable. The other thing
about auto is I mean these you guys know
so well.
>> It's not um I think a lot of times we
talk about tariffs and we sort of equate
the economy to as if we're like buying
and selling t-shirts and coffee cups
like really simple supply chain.
>> These are really complex supply chains.
So we buy you take like our headlight.
>> We buy that as an assembly from a US
manufacturer
>> and it comes you know it's built in the
US. uh it has about 20 suppliers into it
and those 20 suppliers then each have
about 10 to 15 suppliers. So there's
hundreds of companies involved with
making our headlight and many of those
companies are getting materials that
come from outside the United States and
that's a one part, right? And so the the
ripple across something with such a
complex supply chain is is hard to fully
appreciate you realize we buy 3,000
parts, put them together, but there's
actually
>> more than 10x that in terms of discrete
components that are going into the carow
>> because we buy assemblies.
>> Um,
>> yeah. So it's, you know, it does despite
the fact that we're very US- ccentric
and we're very vertically integrated, it
still adds a few thousand in cost. One
of the things that we struggle with is
like we care a lot about the market. We
read a lot about the market, but we're
not deep in it. And I feel like one of
the hard parts is from the outside is
how do you actually figure out what is
tariffs, what is not? There's a lot of
changing rules. And I imagine as you're
thinking about suppliers, you've tried
to focus on as everybody every tech
company did, do I move production to
India instead of China, but now there's
additional tariffs there. Have you been
how have you been managing that?
>> I mean to your first question, the um
>> is there better? There is a there's a
daily standup meeting we have at within
Rivian that says like what's changed in
the last 24 hours uh which I didn't
anticipate having but every 24 hours we
we review what what has changed in terms
of trade policy tariffs
>> and so that informs like what are we
doing that day that week to react
>> and then there's a longer term strategy
that we're building and some of these
decisions are really hard so take uh
wiring harnesses very labor intensive
>> almost all of the wiring harnesses for
cars built in the United States or
manufacturer in Mexico because the much
lower cost of labor
>> and because till about four months ago
that was
>> and because we had standard you know
multi-deade North American free trade
agreement and so when that changed
everybody's like wow should we start
building wiring harnesses in the United
States
>> but then you don't want to like invest a
bunch of capital to build production
capacity then have the rules change
again in a couple of years
>> and then have a really expensive wiring
harness production line. So there's in
many cases there's decisions where we're
essentially saying we're going to
continue to source from a lower cost
location uh and just pay the tariffs in
the in the short term. You short-term
meaning next few years.
>> Yeah.
>> And then in some cases we've made the
decision to bring in you know bring into
the United States. But it's these are
hard trade-offs. is the assumption that
in a postpresident Trump world some of
these things go like are you operating
under that assumption generally that
maybe you're not going to have to worry
about this stuff soon and so it's not
worth that big investment for some of
this stuff.
>> Yeah, it's a it's a good question. I'd
say there's there's a we actually have a
like a live working memo and there's a
few categories in it. on is what are the
things we think are going to stay like
what's what are changes that are going
to be um you know sticky and then what
do we think is going to move around and
so one of the things that we think is is
going to be persistently with us in
terms of like the US economy is trade
policy that makes it very hard to do a
lot of business with China
>> sure
>> and so it's one of the few categories of
topics where the the left and the right
agree there's a very strong anti-China
trade mentality And so, of course, we're
not building supply chains that have any
reliance or dependence on China. One of
the ones we think is going to be moving
around a lot over the next few years is
trade within North America. And it's
been such a a pillar of our economy and
so much capex has gone into Canada and
Mexico.
>> Yeah.
>> That I it's hard to imagine a world
where we don't return to friendly trade
relationships with with our northern and
southern um neighbors. And and I think
that's generally the point of view. Most
companies believe that. And
>> so you're kind of operating with that.
>> And so we're not replacing Mexican
supply chains with US supply chains, but
we are very much making sure we don't
have China to kind of
>> Yeah. Which seems like a story we're
hearing from other other companies and
other auto.
>> You guys are also one of the few EV
manufacturers that hasn't developed a
China market product or focus on the
Chinese market generally.
>> We Yeah. So we actually didn't have a
lot of content out of China to start and
>> you know we' done a lot of the sourcing
activity on R2 in
like a lot of the contracts being
written in the summer of 2024
>> and it was pretty clear then
>> 6 months too soon. No, but even then you
could say like regardless who wins this
election,
>> like we're not going to go become really
close buddies, you know, the US and
China. So we we'd already made the
decision to not really rely.
>> Never mind that at the moment tariffs
are not that much more significant than
they are some other countries where you
may have expected different.
>> Um obviously tariffs been a big story
for us, but we want to move on to other
let's talk about uh Ford and Ford's
recently announced EV platform.
>> Yeah. So, Lyn, last week, Ford has
announced that they're planning on
building a $30,000 pickup truck. And
much more importantly, they are also
they they've announced this kind of new
production methodology where instead of
there being a single production line,
there's a bunch of different inputs that
then create one that flow into one
thing. Um, huge news for Ford obviously,
right? A $3,000 pickup truck, electric
pickup truck will be huge. They obvious
they refer to it as their Model T
moment. Yeah.
>> Uh, in reference to how popular will be
and to the factory line.
>> What do you think? First of all, Slate,
I have bad news for Slate and that that
might kill their market, but how are you
guys reacting to this? How are all of
you reacting to this?
>> Yeah, what are your thoughts? I mean, I
mean, obviously, this is it's an
interesting thing to hear about. You
know, the Machi was kind of already Ford
sort of entered in the segment, but it
seems like they want to go even higher
volume and even lower pricing.
>> Yeah, look, I I I say this all the time.
I think it's really important we have
choice.
uh you know, as a as a car enthusiast
and as someone that wants to see
electric vehicles be really widely
adopted where people are excited to be
in them, the only way we're going to get
there is if we have
>> more than a handful of, you know, highly
compelling choices. And and we see today
at the sub $50,000 price point, I'd say
there's, you know, more than one, less
than five highly compelling choices,
>> right? Yeah.
>> And and you could
>> I won't ask you which is
>> Yeah. Well, certainly two of them you
would clearly say are the Model 3 and
the Model Y and and they command
together around 50% market share
>> and that's not actually a good thing.
It's like it that's reflective of an
underserved market
>> when you have hundreds of compelling
choices in the ice world. And so I think
it's great that Ford's working on
>> you know a product that's going to, you
know, from the spec sounds really
compelling.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I think to do it you do have to
rethink architectures. you know there's
a lot of focus on the manufacturer
architecture. I think another element
that we're going to see that needs to
change is how we think about the network
architectures. So the topology of
compute and how software is architected
in the vehicles I think going to change
dramatically over the next you next 5 to
10 years and we've of course are driving
that within our vehicles right I mean I
I the biggest takeaway for me from that
new story is a lot of their what they
described as minimizing wiring work
changing the architecture for the car
itself despite it being 400 vol instead
of 800 volt is that that's exactly what
you all did with the gen 2
>> so I imagine you're all moving that
direction
>> totally I mean so we we have a
>> we have a large joint venture we put
together Volkswagen. So, it's a $5.8
billion deal and we're licensing our
what we call our zonal architecture and
our software stack.
>> But what that's really doing is it takes
what is on the order of call it 75 to
100 little ECUs, little electronic
control units that are domain based. So
they maybe are driving a window
mechanism or an HVAC system and instead
consolidating all that comput into a
very small number of computers and then
having all that decisioning and controls
driven by a single offer OS operating
system.
>> And so I think that's obviously the
future state, but it's it's going to
take some time to get there and it's
very hard to do.
>> All right, we've got to talk about the
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This isn't some $90 designer tea or $130
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>> Yeah. I I have a lot of additional
questions, but I don't want Ken to
literally fall asleep. So, I want to
talk about the exact opposite of this.
>> Yeah. Which is Chrysler Chrysler and
Dodge, right? The Dodge announced it
this week or finally revealed, we've
known it's coming for a long time, the
Charger six-pack, which is the the
Hurricane V6 powered Charger. And
they've also announced that the Dodge
Durango is coming back with only V8s,
exclusively V8s,
>> despite the fact that they all they
claimed it was going to go out of
production.
>> Well, boy, that was quick.
>> Yeah. So, Ken's excited again.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, this is an interesting situation
that's kind of been brewing. In addition
to what we're talking about with regards
to tariffs, now you have this sort of
sentiment in the consumer world sort of
shifting back. I don't want to say away
from electric vehicles because obviously
there's still a lot of interest there,
but
>> you know the Chrysler was seem to be
kind of going all in Stalantis on
electric cars and now maybe we want
>> electric vehicles.
>> Maybe we want engines again. Maybe we
want V8s again. um which is an
interesting thing to see and it's and
and it's it's also kind of driven by
what might end up being a temporary
shift in sentiment and in policy and
whatever but nonetheless this is kind of
happening
>> right I do feel for the manufacturers
cuz that level of whiplash is I mean
product cycles are designed so far in
advance and you know really has
obviously electric has become a way of
the direction that things are going so
to have to then all of a sudden change
again
it's kind of crazy
>> by the way they it's not like are
shifting. I mean, the Hurricane V6 is
new, but for a different product
initially for the Ram.
>> They're not bring out a new V8 for the
Durango or a new model for the Durango.
>> I would argue people don't want the new
stuff. They they actually what they
specifically wanted was the old engines
that made the big power and the big
torque and sounded like they do. What
are your thoughts on sort of a shifting
world of of consumer demand? Is this
permanent? Are we going back in the
direction of combustion engines?
>> V8.
We're not planning any V8s in the
Rivian. Alaska.
>> I think you're on the edge of your seat,
but
>> someone will do a swap it. Someone will
do that at some point. Someone will
figure it out.
>> Wheel would be a lot of work.
>> There was enough YouTube dollars out
there. Someone
figure it out.
>> That's a good first.
>> Someone put a V8 on a Cybert truck.
>> Yeah, but when you have 1,50 horsepower,
it's hard to beat that.
>> Well, no, you wouldn't be beating it.
You'd be downgrading the floor. But but
what do you think? I mean, it's an
interesting situation. Obviously, you're
noticing this as well.
>> Yeah, you said it. It's uh in the list
of things I I didn't expect, which
there's a long the list is growing. I
wouldn't have expected a lot of the
manufacturers that had started to really
lean into electrification to so quickly
lean back out and then reinvest in
engine programs, you know, vehicle
programs built around engine
architectures. Uh and you said it, I'm
sure it's challenging for the teams on
those programs.
>> I can't imagine,
>> but you can see why you they're
optimizing around the short term. Yeah,
>> there's clearly customers that can be
picked up through that. The hard
question uh you know for the
manufacturers and I think for us as as a
country and as as like an industry is
what does the 2030s look like? So the
end state is very clear and if you
underinvest in electrification
>> and rely in terms of profitability and
product uh desiraableness on sort of
your classic old hits if you will. Are
you going to find yourself unable to
compete when the world inevitably does
make that full shift? And so I I say
this all the time. I I really hope
everybody continues to lean into
electrification. I think more
competition is really healthy.
>> So you view this as a temporary shift.
You view this as this isn't this isn't
going to be something that lasts and
sticks around, but nonetheless, it's
happening currently. They're going after
this, but maybe they're making the wrong
decision, chasing short-term customers
and short-term revenue and not focused
on the long term.
>> Yeah. I think and these these are big
shifts. I mean it's a shift especially
for someone who's think if you've been
driving cars for 30 40 years you're it
was hard to lose the manual transmission
and then
>> we have not accepted that by the way
>> this that was a hard thing for someone
>> just to be clear
>> and then then it's like okay well I lost
manual transmission and then you lose
the engine and so there's there's a lot
of nostalgia enthusiasm
but that's quickly shifting away and
like now my kids are very biased but my
kids are like shocked when they're in a
car that you have to like change the
gears like that this is
>> wildly comp.
>> The next generation is already growing
up normalizing this.
>> Yeah. To them it's like wait so you have
the thing you have to do with your left
foot you know thing and like boy like an
Rivian it's so much faster you just go
uh
>> we nonetheless we do hear and it is it
is a lot of manufacturers who are saying
okay Porsche saying Macan V is not
selling TYON is not selling
Mercedes-Benz EQ is apparently being
pulled out of the the market um except
for the thousands of unsold cars that
they're going to still have to try to
put down. Is is does it make you at all
nervous that you know you're too early
like that that that the EV is still not
quite ready for the widespread world
that we were thinking maybe 5 years ago
we would be at?
>> Well, let me say this. I think it's I
actually think it's bad for the country.
I think it's bad for the US
competitiveness to have.
>> I agree. We've had this point on many
times.
>> US manufacturers not need to innovate.
like when you when you can rely on the
crutch of V8 SUVs or what what you've
made a lot of money with historically,
you're just not going to build the
muscle and the and the capabilities that
you need to in this this state in this
future state that's going to be needed
to be globally competitive. So I think
that's again
>> the US industry actually learned this
lesson once before but all those people
are gone.
>> Yeah.
>> So they're might end up having to learn
it again pretty
>> soon. I mean, when the Japanese came in
and then eventually the Koreans came in
and started really having a big effect
because they knew how to build a type of
car that the Americans weren't building,
which is a point that we've tried to
make a million times on the show cuz we
get a lot of comments, oh EVs are crap
and screw China, who cares? Well, if
China ends up showing up with these cars
that are far better than our cars,
that's a problem.
>> Our cars float, they bounce.
>> We're going to get to that.
>> I think Well, it's back. I think it's
like I'd said, I I wish this wasn't the
case, but it's hard to ignore that it
means less competition in the short
term. Y
>> and for pure play EVs, especially pure
play EVs that the brands are built
around electrification. So Tesla,
Rivian, it's it's definitely going to
create a positive tailwind. And so and I
think you see it, you know, perhaps most
pronounced just with what's happening
right now. There's a lot of
manufacturers have made cars that are
electric but that are not super
compelling and as and as a way to get
zero emission vehicle credits or to
lower their corporate average fuel
economy rather than buy credits from
Tesla or from Rivian and they've
incentivized those sales very heavily.
So you see like very wonky lease deals.
You can lease there's some electric cars
you can lease
incredibly well aware
>> Charger V. Have you not thought about
going and picking up a Charger for 99
bucks a month? It's like sort of like
wow for like 50 bucks I get a whole car
>> but that's going to go away
>> right
>> and so then you're going to be stuck
with a more like call it natural market
that's behaving based upon real
economics and then I think that the gap
between the folks that are not building
EVs
>> Yeah. So that's going to grow.
>> So the subject in your answer is you're
not nervous about uh that you're too
early. Quite the opposite. you think
you're well positioned for what will
inevitably happen and these other
automakers are maybe
>> the ones who are kind of screwing things
up.
>> Transitions like this are always tough
and it's there there's no of course
there's no direct analogy that's has all
the exact same things but if you go back
a long time peak horse was in the 1920s
>> you so like peak horse right before
there was no horse. Yeah.
>> Right before there was no horse.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh and
>> peak horse.
>> Yeah.
>> I like that.
>> How did we get peak? That's a great
>> And we are by the way at peak V8. I
think
>> big V8 as we should be. Okay, we're
peeking. That's the news. That's
interesting uh takes on the news.
Interesting to get your perspective on
some of the stuff that's happening. But
we got to move on to the talk car
segment wherein we talk about cars. Now
you're thinking we were just talking
about cars.
>> It's true.
>> We're going to really talk about really.
>> Can we still talk about wiring
harnesses?
>> No, we want to talk about R.J. We want
to talk about RJ. R.J. R.J. in addition
to the whole Rivian thing, which there's
more to cover there. R.J. is a car
enthusiast.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. What are what are your We
want to know what are you interested in?
What do you like? What do you drive?
>> You know, no manuals. His kids don't
know about transmissions.
>> You do you own one?
>> I do own one man.
>> Okay. What is it?
>> I have a Volkswagen Curado.
Awesome. You got a V a V6? Okay.
>> It's a And that's a It was the first car
I owned
>> and uh when I was when I first had it, I
modified the heck out of it. So, it's
beautiful. No, I sold it
>> and then I bought a Crowd of VR6 again.
>> Nice.
>> Wow.
>> Uh, so the kids enjoy it. They like it's
noisy. It
>> It's like so crude and they're tried to
understand like
>> Crowd VR6 had active arrow.
>> Yeah. Little spoiler. Okay, that is
interesting. That is a
>> I wouldn't say that.
>> Not expecting that one. That one.
>> If I had made a list of cars I thought
he would have that would have been near
the bottom of the list certainly. What
else do we drive? Obviously, you got
rigged. You're taking your kids.
>> R2s, R1's.
>> You're driving around R2s.
>> Wow. Yeah, there's uh camouflage R2s.
>> How come I can't drive? He's driving
around.
>> What am I?
>> You see, you saw one in person, though.
>> I did. I haven't.
>> So, is that it? You got Rivians and a
Curado?
>> Yeah.
>> Is that true? It's true.
>> What uh what cars have you owned in the
past?
>> I've owned uh all kinds of things. Um
>> I had a Lotus Elise, which was an
awesome.
>> You were also a taller gentleman.
It was hard to get in and out of, you
know, it's but that was just really
really fun car.
>> Uh 944S2. Great car. Really fun car.
>> Let's see. Um a 914 Porsche
>> 94 that I was doing.
>> So I I grew up restoring classic
Porsches and working on classic
Porsches. And so the 914 cuz I could not
afford the 356s I was working on.
>> So I bought the thing I could afford,
the 914.
>> I think most 914. Yeah.
>> I was doing this. It started as a
driving car and I made it not a driving
car, meaning it did not function because
I was in the process of doing a 993 3.6
conversion.
>> Oh.
>> So I had 911 turbo brakes on it. You all
the suspension pickup points on a 914
are the same as a 911 through 1989.
>> I didn't know that.
>> Yeah. Uh so it's very easy to do it like
a turbo brake kit cuz you just take out
the spindle.
>> Anyways, I um stopped that whole project
when I started riving. I started a much
bigger car project. So since I started
rigging, I haven't
Yeah, I haven't had any of those kinds
of car projects
>> and you probably don't have a lot of
time to go out and actually pursue these
sports cars and plus your whole life is
these cars and so just the Corano.
>> Yeah, but I mean like I'm like a as a
Porsche fan like a Porsche 993.
>> The running theme of all these cars
though is kind of smaller, lighter
weight, more
>> manual transmission analog.
>> However, the Rivians are kind of the
opposite. So, so what happened here? You
you saw what the market demanded instead
of what you yourself maybe were
interested. Well, when I first started
Rivian, we were working on a sports car.
Yeah.
>> And realized a couple years in that it
wasn't the right product strategy and
when you build a product, you have to
have like what's the story? What's the
brand? How does it resonate? And so, we
shelved the sports car recognizing it
wasn't the right thing to build around
and and that had been tried. Of course,
Tesla built its brand launching a
roadster.
>> Yeah.
>> And then spent a lot of time really
digging deep to say, what do we want to
build? What's the brand want to stand
for? Um, I'm a big uh adventure
enthusiast and so started to scratch on
this idea of a product designed to
enable adventure in the broadest sense.
Like it can fit your kids, your gear,
your stuff. Um,
>> and if you look at the types of vehicles
that are typically in that space,
they're very inefficient.
>> Yeah.
>> They're not fun to drive.
>> Um, they're you have to have basically a
lot of compromises in order to do those
things. And so we said, what if we made
a vehicle that was designed to enable
adventure, but also was super efficient,
incredibly fun to drive, had storage in
ways you didn't think about storage, you
know, so like a gear tunnel that goes
right through the side.
>> And so we landed on this idea of
building products around adventure.
>> When was this? What year was this?
>> This started in some point. You'd like
this, dog. I'll have to show you guys
the um all the things that happened
along the way, but it started in like
2013. And then we had many iter it's not
like we like
>> specifically going after truck like that
would you started focusing on truck in
that era.
>> Yeah. So we we recognized that trucks
had become big and a lot of the
positioning of them was around like who
can haul more concrete and who can haul
more stuff and a lot of the uses of the
trucks are very far from that. So
>> most people are using them actually to
put their maybe they put a sofa in the
back but they're largely using like
lifestyle. So your gear, your your
bikes, your
>> surfboard.
>> And so the first thing that we developed
that's actually still on this was this
idea of a gear tunnel
>> cuz there's the lack of a trunk in a
truck is a classic scenario where you
have a big bed, but you don't want to
put your groceries in the rain. Y
>> and so we put a big front trunk and then
a big middle trunk.
>> Um
>> it is it's interesting to me that this
was this idea was being developed that
early. Obviously in the years since then
it it worked out didn't like in the
years since then the the the 4Runner and
the Gwagon and the Raptor and like and
and co happened and adventure became an
even bigger thing and like you guys were
unbelievably well positioned in a way
that is
>> quite more than your competitors right
like a lot of your competitors debut
with sedans probably because they had
years of leadup of developing that sedan
but what turned out to be not what the
consumers were interested in like you
were perfectly ready with like an
electric 4Runner like it Well, it was it
was it was like ready to go when people
wanted it at the and and as a result,
Rivian has kind of been
>> the most desirable E. I mean, aside from
Tesla and Rivian are like up this is
what people want. This is like you think
about EVs people actually want. They
want to be heavily incentive brands
really resonated
in those vehicles specifically. I mean
it turned out to really work out like
you must have thought this is this is
perfect. But what was wild is we in like
2017 when things started to come into
real focus and the the vehicle started
to have look something like this. We we
made all these charts and we'd write
down like what do we want the brand to
stand for and you know you do these like
is is not uh and you'd ask yourself
these hypothetical questions would riv
do x
>> and we were really precise on it and
then we launched in end of 2018 and then
we products are on the market end of
2021
>> and it's actually come together a lot in
the way that we thought like we wanted
the vehicles to be used actively.
>> Yeah. We wanted people to connect with
them and like get inspired to go do
things that they may not do in their
existing vehicle. And so I get these
emails from customers that will say,
"Hey, I
>> I some you did something to me. I bought
your car. I hadn't skied in 10 years and
somehow me buying your car has me skiing
again." Like what what did you put in
the air filter?
>> That's cool.
>> Yeah. Which is like it's like so cool to
see your brand connect in the way you'd
hope.
>> And now R2 is going to bring it to more
people.
>> Yeah. and our 3X and R2 has some
features that just
>> Oh,
>> I'm so excited. There's a The rear glass
drops.
>> Yeah. 4Runner style.
>> And that's the only feature my wife
wants in a car. Actually, that and
CarPlay. So, it hits one of the two.
>> And there the there's rear windows that
pop out, which as a car enthusiast is so
cool.
>> Really cool. Sort of like a fresh air
mode. You press the button, use the
negative pressure off the top,
>> like the the rear 3/4 window.
>> Yeah. And then you pull air from the
through the car.
>> We've got to talk boots. Brunt Workware
boots. They've been a great partner to
this car pod, but I have been called out
in the comments for not being a boot
guy. Well, recently I headed to Belgium
for the Grand Prix at Spa, a notoriously
muddy place when it rains. I decided to
take my pair of Brunt Marin boots, and
everything I said about them in the last
podcast is true. They didn't take long
to break in. They were very comfortable,
and they kept my feet warm and dry when
the heavens opened at Spa. I also wore
them at the Bajjac forest, the site of
the fame stand of the easy company of
the 101st Airborne during Battle of the
Bulge. These boots allowed me to get
around the foxholes with ease and pay my
respects to the men who served there.
They helped me create a memory that I
will genuinely carry forever. The
founder, Eric Gerard, grew up blue
collar, worked alongside his buddies in
the trades, and kept saying that the big
brands had stopped caring. They had
turned into fashion brands and hadn't
changed in a hundred years. So Eric
built Brunt from the ground up for real
hardworking people. Every boot is named
after one of the guys that he grew up
with. Real people, real jobs. You can
literally wear them to work, beat them
up, and if they're not right for you,
send them back. Who else does that?
Brunt was tired of the work wear brands
that were cutting corners. You work too
hard to be stuck in uncomfortable boots
that don't hold up, so they built
something better. boots that are
insanely comfortable and are built for
any job site. So, for a limited time,
our listeners get $10 off at Brunt when
you use the code cars. That's C A R S at
checkout. Just head to bruntwork.com
and use the code cars and you're good to
go. And after you order, they'll ask you
where you heard about Brunt. So, do us a
favor and tell them you heard it from me
and this car pod. There's there was been
enormous pressure to launch R1 given all
the how long it took, you know, and the
investors and all that.
>> R2 though is going to be the real I mean
these these are expensive cars. R2 is
much more affordable. R2 is going to be
the big volume I imagine
>> for sure. So these have a average price
of over $90,000 and so
>> so R there's must be just I mean do you
feel just as much pressure trying to
launch R2 or like this is the big moment
where
>> it's it's a big Yeah. Yeah. It's also um
next year, early part of next year and
so
>> with with R1 is our first product and
out of the gate it resonated really
well. So we had like truck of the year
>> last couple years in a row, Consumer
Reports does this uh brand appeal study
and we've been at the top of the list
>> uh highest rate of repurchase. So all
these amazing
>> things that we only dreamed of. And so
now the hope is we can take this really
strong brand success we've had at this
premium price point at the you know at
the flagship level and take it into the
price point where you see things like a
Model Y right
>> you see like things like even as is sort
of normal if you will is like a Honda
CRV
>> you know Toyota Wranglers
>> certainly 4Runners of course so you pick
up just this huge
>> amount of market that's you know folks
are going to be cross shopping with a
lot of different things and so because
the price overlaps so much with the
Model Y. We often think we often get
asked like is this like directly trying
to compete with a Model Y? Of course,
there's going to be cross shop because
the price is there,
>> but really it's it's going to be
addressing the, you know, the vast
majority of folks that are actually not
buying an EV,
>> but when they see this, it's like, boy,
that thing's like faster than a Porsche
0 to 60. It's got this incredible
off-road capability. I can put my kids
in it.
>> Their window drops. It is almost
like
>> it's almost amazing the things that the
Caribbean vehicles combine into one. Um
>> this is not an ad for Raven by the way.
Just
>> I just I mean I was my car of the year
both the SUV and the truck where during
the years they came out and I think it's
pretty amazing the things they combine
into one. It's it's kind of an
interesting thing that you can do with
an electric car um is kind of make them
be fast and off-roading and luxurious
and all that. Um but nonetheless there's
you know there's is there an enthusiast
component of electric cars that's
missing? This is this is our friend
Kevin's thoughts here.
>> So yeah. So I I so you mentioned that
initially you were considering you
conceptualized having a sports car and
realized that was the wrong product
strategy which makes sense and obviously
Rivian's focused on like you said more
adventure stuff but how do you feel
about the electrification of sports cars
in general someone who said you know you
like the analog cars you love old
Porsches and the experience they own a
>> at least like looking at you know the
future of the sports car you know mate
rim has said very famously like
>> you need an engine for that experience
it's what customers of the ultra highend
stuff want you're going to pay over a
million dollars for a car you want it to
go when you start it. You want to feel
like feel that. So, what are your
thoughts on that?
>> Well, I think the customer for a million
dollar car is very different than the
car.
>> But what do you think the Porsches? I
mean,
>> Porsche is a great example.
>> Obviously, there's a lot of cool cars
that are electric, but are
>> are you as an enthusiast? You grew up
strong. Are you like worried about the
loss of
>> manual the manual flat 6, the air cooled
the in that segment at least?
>> It's a different flavor. And so so an
electric if you dream of like what is an
electric Porsche sports car look and
feel and drive like it's not going to
have all the same it's not going to hit
all the same buttons that
>> you know a manual transmission Porsche
is going to hit in the same way frankly
that like a 993 hits different buttons
than a new GT3 RS
>> like they're they're very different cars
and so
>> um
>> I think depending on your own history
with cars you may be drawn drawn more to
things that are more nostalgic or older.
Like so I'm actually drawn to like some
of those older cars just cuz they're
things I grew up with, things I grew up
dreaming about. You know, I know you
you're a big fan of your Courage GT that
like one of the last analog, you know,
really supercars. And so there's
something about that and I think when
you look at the sports car space putting
aside like the hypercar space because I
think it is a different customer
>> I think in the sports car space people
are going to find new ways to enjoy
electric vehicles and like regen is a
really interesting thing. Uh
>> and so you start to think about like
what role can regen play in in creating
another um driver accessible way to
control the the you know the vehicle and
you know coming into a corner. And so
there's I think just things we're going
to start to see that people think about
and dream about.
>> Have you driven that Ioni 5N that has
fake shift? We were we drove it and were
astonished by um how honest it was
feeling like a dual clutch shifting and
it really hit me that like if the
automakers start putting this in these
cars
>> that it kind of it does replace a manual
transmission experience but it sort of
replaces a dual clutch experience.
>> Yeah. I think what's funny about that is
it's replicating a less capable system.
And I think I think for for people like
that are maybe
>> enthusiast
>> enthusiast in the classic sense.
>> Yeah,
>> that works. I think there's going to be
new modalities though of of things that
are going to emerge on electric
vehicles. I think uh especially when you
start to look at like multimot multi
motor per axle.
>> I mean, have you you guys have just
drove up in the quad? We've done any
off-roading it. But
>> no, but
>> the new quad has some torque vectoring
features
>> that are so fun.
>> Yeah.
>> Like laugh out loud fun. We call it kick
steer where you're like driving on a
trail
>> and with
>> like it's like it's like Gran Turismo
easy. You just like press the buttons
and the car pivots on its axis. You can
make these right angle turns in a way
that you're just like you you're like,
"Wow, I feel like I'm a
>> you know a groupy rally driver here."
And it's so much fun and it's safe and
it's it's stable.
>> Does simulated shifting and torque
vectoring capabilities. Does that play
that same role for like the next
generation of enthusiast?
>> I mean, I don't know. I think
Lamborghini is already looking at that.
They were testing the Ionic 5 at the
factory to go see how it was put
together. I I think like there is
definitely something there. I felt like
that was the future of it for
>> but I I don't know. Like I it's I don't
know because I'm a dinosaur already.
Like I like V12 and manuals. That's what
I like. Yeah. But your kids, like you
said, grow up and they like are shocked.
>> But that's uh man, we talked about
horses jokingly. There are lots of horse
enthusiasts still. People that own
horses. It's it's a it is not the best
way to move around no longer. There's
much faster, more efficient ways to
move.
>> But people enjoy them and so they still
own them. And I think, you know,
hyperars, I think, are more in that
category. If you're going to if you're
going to own a million- dollar car, you
know that this is it's far from
practical. like that is not a practical
choice. And so you're not
>> implicitly by buying a million- dollar
car, you're already making a decision
that this is an impractical purchase.
>> And so I think when you're making an
impractical purchase, there's all sorts
of things that are maybe not practical.
>> Yes.
>> And so in our case for like R2 or even
R3 and R3X, which I think the most
excited for the channel, you're like
Delta.
I am really R2 is very important and I I
I think that R3 is like my cherry on top
like what I'm waiting
>> when you go off-roading, whether it's
low speed up a trail or higher speed on
like a gravel trail, electric is really
enjoyable. The the instant torque is
nice.
>> Um you're never you never find yourself
in the wrong gear on a rock like, "Oh
jeez, I'm rolling backwards." It's just
like instant torque.
>> The danger.
>> Yeah, it's
>> But it's I'm very deep off enthusiast
deep like danger. One of the challenges
with off-roading is does have a barrier
to entry that historically because it
takes like knowledge of like what does a
differential do? What's a center locking
differential? What's a rear
differential? And suddenly you get into
like a quad motor R1. You just tap off
like you just can do it and suddenly you
>> know on that subject one thing people
talk to us a lot about not necessarily
in terms of Rivian although maybe more
with quad but the Hummers um is just the
sheer size of these vehicles and the
sheer acceleration level
>> vehicles. We've been driving the R1S
quad uh the Gen 2 quad around. It's
insane. It's really quick.
>> Is there any 2.6 seconds and laugh about
like we think it's awesome. Is there any
do we have any respons like corporate
responsibility fears about people having
people I actually get asked this
question a lot particularly when the
Hummer came out which I was pretty into
and I still am. Um
>> well I love that they always said are
you afraid that like a little old lady
is going to drive. It's like, well, if
there's a little lady driving a Hummer
EV, that's one thing. But
>> I mean, these cars are really fast and
really big, and it doesn't require any
special, you know, when we were kids,
you had really legit to have a access to
a car that was anywhere near this,
>> right? But electric cars have
democratized speed and such a
>> Oh, I I remember when the um when the
993 Turbo came out and it hit 0 to 60 in
3 seconds and it was like the top of the
chart for 0 to 60 and I was like, "Wow,
I can't move a car and break 4 seconds."
right now. And now I can be with my kids
in the back and like a lawn mower in the
vehicle. I can do two and a half seconds
in a R1T
>> and so yeah. Is that is that a good
idea?
>> It's a 7,000lb vehicle.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean you guys have done a great safety
system. Like it seems so safe to do that
zero that 2 and 12 seconds 0 60
>> but is it
>> it's very safe. There's a whole bunch of
>> Yeah. But is it wise?
>> Is it wise? Uh
>> I think it's important like why does a
car like that exist?
Why do we make a 2 and 1 half second 0
to 60 SUV and truck?
>> Yeah.
>> Um we think it's important to answer
some of your questions which is like you
can still have fun in electric vehicle
>> and it's like you know you see the badge
in the back for the quad is this little
gear guard figure that is being blown
back.
>> Like we're having fun with it. Yeah,
it's we're embracing
>> the silliness of a 2 and 1 half second 0
to 60
>> SUV and
>> it's it's a brand building vehicle. It's
not going to be the highest volume
vehicle,
>> but it really helps people get excited
around maybe they get a try or a dual
motor and of course it opens up the door
for people to say, "Oh, wow. I want to
consider this R2."
>> Right. Right. C can I ask about that?
All right. So there the only visual
differentiations of the quad motor are
the brake calipers
>> and the and the R1S badges says quad
>> in the gear guard with his hair.
>> Sure.
>> Yeah.
>> What is this?
>> Why not more?
>> We're astonished by this. When we were
kids, you get an M3 and it's got rocker
panels and it's got badges. It's got
wheels and it's got a wing and it's got
there's all this stuff because you want
people do you want your neighbors to
know
>> I got the expensive one.
>> I don't. So I love the subtlety but KN75
is special because it looks visually
distinct. Most people who are spending
more over a regular one want to show
>> why not fly fenders. Why not?
>> How come why don't we have some flared
fenders on this thing?
>> I seriously legitimately
>> I think given infinite time resources we
probably would have done maybe different
front and fascia.
>> Oh um
>> this was we like the subtlety of this
one. I I and I think over time you may
see like our next like gen 3
>> quad maybe have something that's a
little bit different than the try but
it's uh it was like a lot of debate
around this like how how aggressive do
we go and we we went with subtle here
>> over time we think its personality
around quad could could continue to
evolve
>> I was telling our producer yesterday
that I love it and therefore it's
probably not the right product plan if I
>> well you see with like Gwagon right
which is a competitor the regular one
looks like the regular one. The 63 has
the big wheels and the the brush guard.
>> Harder and harder to tell at a glance.
>> Well, a lot of them are 63s, but they
really do sell it, right? They really
and and I think that probably appeals to
people and you still see that in a lot
of
>> for our brand. We also have there's a
degree of subtlety to to
>> I mean,
>> you walk around this lot, that SUV is
faster to 100 milesPH than almost
everything on this lawn.
>> Yeah.
>> Which is really wild. And so the fact
that you're starting there, it sort of
says, okay, do we we don't actually need
all these like scoops and all this just
doesn't need it.
>> But that was probably always true,
right? We knew that the M3 didn't in
need a rear wing.
>> The Curado didn't need active active
air, but it had fair,
>> but it had it.
>> I need that extra downfall.
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So, in a bunch of drag tests or drag
races, the Raven is fastest off the
line, but then loses out to some other
cars because of the speed limiter.
>> Yep.
>> I assume you guys have done some
testings without it. Where do you get?
>> Well, you asked the question for on
safety. That's that's it. So, we made
the we made the decision on the non-quad
we limited to 110.
Uh, and then in the quad, we limit it to
130. Really, just because
>> otherwise it would just kill the 1/4
mile time,
>> right?
>> Um, and in fact, the 130 is only enabled
when you go into sport mode. But
>> how fast could this thing go if we let
it run?
>> A lot faster.
>> But the reason we don't on your R1S,
which I assume maybe has some special
features.
>> I've got a lot faster than those. Yeah.
So
>> on a close closed track, but look, what
are you getting to?
>> Uh you could go a lot faster,
>> but I mean these are not cars you can
hack, so nobody will ever unlock. Well,
no, but you know, there's got to be a
benefit to being in the Seattle.
>> But the reason is at 130,
>> you're committing a felony on every road
in the United States.
>> Yeah, but not on the Bonavville Salt
Flats.
>> Sure.
>> But but again, you just said like this,
if you're going to the Bonavville Salt
Flats, you're probably not taking this.
And so,
>> I don't know. I like it. It was like a
corporate decision. Let's air on the
side of safety. And the cars are so
quick. I mean, you're on the throttle
for a second. You could be going 150.
>> Yeah. way faster than you guys.
>> At least 150 we got the news item for
the day.
>> Can I have 40? We don't know yet.
>> All right, I lied. I have one more
question. What is special about your
R1S, your R1T? What What can regular
people not get that you have?
>> What What features are you demoing that
you're not allowed to reveal yet?
>> The Porsche family is famous for having
special one-off models built of cars.
>> Yeah. You're the founder and CEO. What
What do What do you have in your You
>> not particularly different. I I drive
like the R2 of course is
>> Yeah.
>> just because it's a you know it's on
out. Um but the R1 I'm usually a
software release or two ahead of
everything else which is just part of my
my job.
>> Yeah. And other people are too in the
company.
>> Yeah. Like a lot of our team is on early
release and so
>> yeah.
>> Yeah. That's fun. And it's also because
you're on early release you you spot
things you can change. Uh that's one of
the things I really enjoy is because we
do a software release every month. We
can be continually adding features and
it is very dynamic. So I'll get like
emails from customers with an idea and
you know I'll call our head of software.
I'll call him be like hey let's get this
in.
>> Really cool. How legit is that? That is
>> very cool. Like my dad was bugging me
for the longest time on the car wash
feature the way it was activated and
what in the way the mirrors folded. So I
we changed it and in the release notes I
was like thank you dad for the advice
like and I something like please stop
asking
>> on that subject with regards to founders
and and we're going to move on to market
report next quickly and then we'll move
on to questions a lot of people ask
questions they have for you and we want
to we want to talk through it but I do
have one other question which is regard
regarding
>> your um sort of the face that you are
for the business uh versus say Elon
>> Elon is
uh chose to make himself kind of like
the you know Tesla and Elon are
inextricably linked in basically
everybody's minds. Um the result of that
was a cult of personality kind of formed
around him and I think that that
probably had a huge uh benefit for the
success of that brand for a long time
>> and risk now
>> now we're seeing maybe some of the
drawbacks of that. You have never been
kind of as as outgoing in terms of tying
yourself to this brand of Elon. Was that
intentional? Do you regret it? Were you
looking at Elon saying, "Hey, I'm cool
too during this process." Like what?
>> Yeah. Uh
I think
I think like if you start a company,
you're there's always or if you're like
the core part of running a business,
you're going to be linked to it. I think
for for me, we've we've been
reserve more reserved just in how we've
come across as a company.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm more reserved as a person. And I
think we've been intentional uh in
trying to be as inclusive as possible.
And so as a brand, I say this all the
time, we have, you know, a widespread of
demographics. We have Republicans that
buy our cars. We have Democrats that buy
our cars. We want to be appealing to
both. And um have tried really hard to
make sure that the environment is is
like is the broadest possible welcome
map to all customers. And I think Tesla
did that for a while. I think I think
you know I think the brand they built is
still really strong but my personality
is much different than than
>> Yeah. And and that's what it came down
to. You think is that you didn't just
you weren't the guy who was going to be
out there tweeting the president?
>> Yeah. And I think just like my social
presence is much smaller and um
>> and intentionally like you feel that
that's just who you are more.
>> Yeah. It's more it's not it's not as
designed as maybe you're thinking. It's
more of like the resultant of just two
very different personalities. Got it.
Not that one's right or wrong. I think
it's been super productive for Tesla as
you said for creating tons of
>> Was there ever any push from your PR
folks or from your market get out there
from your shareholders do more crazy
stuff?
>> Yeah. I don't know if there's been a
push I think um
>> I mean jokingly people are like you know
say RJ you're not going to go do this
are you?
>> We don't get into what I mean you're on
a podcast we don't for you drugs on the
podcast. No nothing like that.
I mean, it's I think sometimes some of
this stuff gets taken so seriously. Like
I I've owned two Teslas.
>> I think there's a perception that
>> uh one company has to one for one
company to be successful, everyone else
has to fail. And what's so wonderful
about like the auto industry and and for
as a car enthusiast is many companies
can be successful. It's very different
than tech. Yeah. Like if you think of
like big tech, there's like generally
there's like one or two dominant players
in a segment for a market
>> in an auto you can have all these
different flavors, different
personalities. Yeah.
>> Uh and the personalities maybe have some
echoing effects from their leadership or
their founders.
>> And so you our products have a lot of my
personality in them,
>> right?
>> And some of their subtlety and and um
like quiet confidence.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. There's one last question I want
to ask just based on that. Are there any
other automotive CEOs you look at and
you admire what they've done with their
vision for their companies along those
same lines that what you've done with
yours?
>> Yeah, I mean it it's a such a small
world.
>> It is, you know, so we um I have great
friendships with a lot of different CEOs
and um yeah, it's fun to trade notes and
a lot of times you find yourself you'll
send them a text be like, "Hey, I really
like this." You'll get a text like,
"Hey, nice job." you know, so it's sort
of it's it's more um
uh you know, it's more collaborative
behind the scenes, I think, than you'd
think, you know, and especially in the
last few months with all the significant
changes.
>> You know, certainly I've talked to other
CEOs and said, "Hey, like how are you
guys thinking about wire harness supply
or
>> uh you just to think about like how
we're all responding to trade tariffs
and things of that nature."
>> Texting Mary Borrow asking on a group
with Jim and Jim Farland.
>> You mentioned Mate, he's a friend of
mine, good friend of mine. He's uh I
think he's outstanding. He's done some
really interesting things. Great
technology.
>> Uh we both started companies around the
same time. So we've we've known each
other over the years
>> in that world.
>> So cool. Um
>> I'll mention just because it happened
off camera earlier. You did say that the
Ethern M5 is the greatest car ever made.
>> I didn't say greatest car made.
>> All right. All right.
>> I didn't even say the best M car, but
best M5.
>> What is the best M car?
>> Probably the E46. All right. Wow. We'll
accept that.
>> Wow.
Our audience will3
is more like what BMW is about. Straight
six is their core competency engine.
Historically car is perfect 5050 weight
distribution. It's small, lightweight,
tossable, high revving. It's like what
an M car is supposed to be
traditionally. The M5 is just the best.
But the I have a friend E30 conversion
where he's putting a Yeah. E46.
>> That'll make that thing a B.
>> But it's funny. He's like, I should have
just bought a GT3 RS cheaper.
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
>> I would have, but that's but that
anybody can just do that. He built
something cool last.
>> I want to talk market report and
specifically since you're here, we want
to talk EV market report, which is just
typically where we talk about used car
values and you know what used cars are
sold strong recently, sold poorly,
what's what's cheap, what's expensive.
Um, we haven't actually talked in the
market report segment that much about
EVs. We talk in the news segment a lot
about EVs because they're in the news,
but in the market report, we don't cover
it all that often. But it is an
interesting topic because there is some
crazy EV depreciation. Are you aware
already that Rivians, what did we say?
>> We've R1 high mile R1Ts. We've seen
55,000 mi R1Ts are in the 50s now.
>> In the 50s. I mean, this is going to be
a car in the 40s pretty soon. That's a
pretty appealing car on a from a used
perspective.
>> I I won't go back in time a little bit.
In 2022 and 2023, we saw a ton of
interest in the R1T and the R1S for a
long time. I remember that first R1T
sale. Do you remember, Doug? Yeah. Right
after it came out, we were 30 grand.
Nobody
>> We were making We were making big money
while you
>> were we were losing money on the cars at
the time. Like all these people were
buying and selling.
>> Yeah. We were We were making more money
on Rivian than you were. I
>> That's true.
>> Uh but now obviously there's a little
bit depreciation. They seem to
depreciate like normal vehicles to a
large extent. Uh
>> as the CEO of the company, how do you
think about what the used market looks
like? How to maintain that? Ferrari as
an exotic car manufacturer obviously has
to think a lot about how do we treat our
customers? What do they expect? Is that
true as a the co of a new company?
>> Yeah, I mean
>> you might be surprised. We spend a ton
of time talking about depreciation.
We're very we track it very closely.
>> Is there a fear? Is there a goal? Is
there a target?
>> The ribbons are actually relative to
>> they're incredible. It's amazing how
much
shows the level of interest and
excitement in the brand. I think more
than any other individual thing,
depreciation kind of proves what the
actual interest is, right? Cuz you can
put a sticker price wherever you want
to, but we know transaction prices for a
lot of cars are lower. Maserati and then
and then what ends up happening in the
used market is really where they're
priced, right? And I think the fact that
Rivians have held up relatively well
>> is is a pretty good marker of demand.
But so so so you put a lot of thought
into it. You're thinking about this. So
I mean so the obvious things is like
what happens in when we did the gen one
and gen two you think about like what
happens to the gen one vehicles and so
as you referenced like a $55,000
>> 2021 high mileage Gen 1 R1 four-year-old
car
>> it's actually not bad%
of MSRP so it's doing pretty well
>> it's doing well but it is starting to
get I mean two two three more years we
start to see this thing in the 30s
that's pretty cool as a as a
>> I think it's a good thing so so um I
mean before I jump to that because
that's an important point.
>> The other thing we spent a lot of time
thinking about is pricing changes and so
when you move your pricing around a lot
and we've had an experience where we did
move pricing before we right as we were
launching and it had a whole bunch we
didn't go down there. Oh, we remember
tears
to go down that road. But we'll save
that next time. But but we made a, you
know, we made some tactical errors and
how we did it, but just recognizing the
sensitivity to movements in your price
up or down. Um, what it can do to people
who just purchased a car, what it can do
to the, you know, secondary markets or
depreciated value. So, we have a whole
pricing process. We have like, I hate
the word committee. We have a pricing
committee
>> that makes sure that we're not sort of
knee-jerking around with pricing.
>> Yeah. And um
>> Tesla call out there.
>> Well, and then what we do on the pricing
is if you do that really well and you do
maintain a residual, it helps you get to
much better lease rates.
>> Yeah.
>> And so if you look at the Rivian lease
rates, they're they're quite attractive
and a big part of that is that our
residuals are so small.
>> You might be the only EVCO that can say
that. I think it's a lot of EV lease
deals have been based on residuals that
have not been reality.
>> On that topic, I want to talk about your
thoughts on the other market report
topic is the other thoughts on other
EVs. Are you looking at used market?
It's wild how cheap some of these EVs
are.
>> Model S's are sub 10. Early early Model
S's that are 13,
>> but even fairly recent. You can get a
Model 3 Performance now for under 20,
right?
>> 20 for like a high mile early one.
>> These are cars that do 0 to 60 in 3
seconds that are that are only a couple
years old. I mean, it's absolutely
unbelievable the depreciation. Well,
this is I was just going to say I think
one of the exciting things for me as
much as we don't want our vehicles to
depreciate the you know the the passage
of time leads to the vehicles price
coming down in part because the
technology becomes a little older
>> but they're really important for
building the brand to get people
exposure and so
>> you know I I'm I grew up a Porsche
enthusiast. I've never bought a new
Porsche. I've owned multiple Porsches
and like the ability to be exposed to a
brand that you aspire to through a
vehicle that's 10 or 20 years old is
really powerful. And so,
>> you know, with R1 is going to do that
with, you know, five, sixy old cars.
You're going to start to see people be
able to afford it that couldn't before.
And then R2 will do that as well. And
so,
>> yeah, what's really fun for us is you
typically when you look at, let's say,
Porsche or existing brand, a legacy
brand, they don't have any participation
really directly in that used marketplace
because once they sell the car to to
wholesalers, to dealers, it sort of
becomes
>> out of the world,
>> right?
>> And so, in contrast,
>> we get to play in that world for a long
time. We we're active participants in
our used marketplace. Um in the long in
the fullness of time, I hope and
anticipate being able to participate. So
like transacting on these, so buying our
own cars back,
>> creating a really smooth, seamless
experience for first-time Rivian
customers, buying a used Rivian, uh
because so much of these vehicles
depends on software,
>> our ability to keep those vehicles
current uh is really powerful, remove
self-driving and stuff like that. Yeah.
>> Okay, we got to move on to questions
from our audience. We we told
>> I know right
audience that you were going to be on.
They we asked them to ask questions.
They asked a lot of questions. Some of
which are very very interesting directed
at you.
>> Uh and we have a few minutes for them.
Starting with the first question from
our user Buick.
>> Oh Buick Buick RJ.
>> Which by the way only makes EVs most of
mostly for China.
>> Do you think there could be room for a
Rivian? Everybody wants future product
information which he's not going to
talk. Do you think Yeah. Do you think
there could be room for a Rivian with a
removable roof? uh or perhaps maybe even
more doors to direct or maybe even
removable doors to directly compete with
the Wrangler and Bronco. That has been a
shockingly strong segment. Wrangler
Bronco.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Are we thinking about
>> Sounds like my dad? My dad.
He's got some great name.
>> So, we've never shown it. I might as
well just say it here.
>> Wow. Um, when we developed R1,
>> we originally had and in fact like toled
it and there there are some of these
still in in our fleet that had a
removable carbon fiber roof.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> Like removable in what way? You can take
it off.
>> If I mean you can't see it on camera,
but was a Rivian like this. So, the
whole glass roof was replaced with uh a
three-piece carbon fiber.
>> Oh, like a like a target top almost like
>> like it would be removed and like taken
away from the vehicle.
>> Removed and fit nicely into the front
trunk. Wow. Wow.
>> And we decided to not do it because it
was adding a lot of complexity to
production. We had all kinds of
challenges with supply chain.
>> But it but it it was actually a really
neat thing cuz you could drive in an
open top setup. So
>> I wouldn't say never. It's we we
certainly recognize the appeal
especially for an adventure vehicle
being able to take the top off.
>> Um you know in R2 we've already talked
about how the glass goes down. Um, we've
>> we're there are thoughts. They're in the
mind. They're in the mind.
>> We are enthusiasts that recognize the
the coolness of removing glass from the
car.
>> Okay. You're going to set up a like a
concept car tour for us, right? We'll
come to right behind right behind this
display. We got all our
similar subject uh from Hemoglobin.
R.J., Would you ever consider, and I
think this is especially an interesting
one, would you ever consider offer
gasoline range extender versions of
Rivian trucks like Scout plans on doing
with theirs?
>> No.
>> Never. This is not a This is never going
to be a thing. Are
>> do customers ever ask like the obviously
Scout thinks there's a market for it?
>> And you guys are a part of that
development.
>> Yeah.
>> And there's and there is a going to be a
lot of overlap between crossover between
your vehicle and their vehicle. Similar
sort of situation. Do you do customers
ever ask for it?
Not really. Um,
and I I you know, I recognize some
brands are going to do that and we we've
seen that range extended EV uh do really
well in China, but for us it just it's
not something we'd focus on. It's
>> you're not going to do I see it as it's
an intermediate solution. And so it's a
lot of effort to develop capabilities
that are
>> unavoidably throwaway capabilities. And
so if you're an existing manufacturer
that already has a team, maybe you could
see why, but we're so clearly, you know,
focused on a pure EV play.
>> Right. Right. It's a lot. It would be a
lot of work to get into the combustion
engine.
>> It doesn't align with what like how we
think about products and you make a
bunch of different decisions around
vehicle architecture.
>> Sure. Sure. Uh, okay. Next question from
CX9er. Question for R.J., how are you
going to make sure that Rivian stay fun
and exciting? Tesla made a ridiculous
truck that got everyone's attention.
Hyundai has a manual transmission.
Somehow Chinese EVs can jump. One of the
interesting things we talk about a lot
is how
>> in the past cars got were distinguished
heavily based on their power trains.
>> And now with EVs that won't be the case
anymore. And so automakers are going to
kind of have it seems to me it seems to
us that automakers are going to have to
keep doing kind of more unusual stuff to
to get like you see this jumping Chinese
EV. I'm sure
>> yeah the Chinese in general have really
gone.
>> They got some weird doing what kids
would do. cars and it's and they've got
some weird stuff
>> is you I'm sure you're thinking about
like if especially as cars can drive
themselves what can what can we do for
the
>> drivers I'm here that's why I'm here
>> no jumping riv but I mean like the kick
steer feature I talked about
>> that's um
>> you have to use it it's sort of it's
it's crazy it's like really cool the
whole car rotates on its axis and you
can
>> you know you can spin it's all kinds of
things but
>> you know is that something you're going
to use going to a grocery store probably
not so it's it is a feature like that
That's exciting. I think across every
vehicle, we whether it's R2 or R3 or
even thinking about things beyond that,
we actually are very uh structured in
saying like what are the things if you
had to show your friend, hey, check this
out.
>> What are the things you'd immediately
point to? And you know, you talk about
his quirks and features, like what are
some of the things that just like stand
out, leave an impression?
>> And every car will have some collection
of those. Some will carry between
vehicles. Like we have a flashlight in
R1. Yep.
>> Flashlight in R2. R3.
>> Um,
>> and then some will be unique to each
vehicle. R1T has this gear tunnel.
>> Is there is there thought of just like
weird stuff like should we be thinking
about like fish tanks in cars or like
you know what I mean? Like do are you
thinking are you trying to think about
where is this going to go? The
windshield.
>> Speaking of fish tanks, do you see the
the cars in there's some people in China
that are doing wraps?
>> Yes. With the fish
>> with fish in actual fish.
>> Okay. Are we thinking about fish fish
wraps?
That is not in our model. But I couldn't
believe that that was a real thing. I
was like, is it AI or is that real? I
don't know.
>> Is is there thought about like weird
like do you have futurist type people
working on like what weird crap is going
to be out there that we have to be ahead
of?
>> Yeah, it I mean it it a lot of uh a lot
of some of the most interesting wild
ideas run up against what you can do
from a regulatory point of view.
>> Yeah. And so, uh, linked to that is when
you design the car, a lot of thought
goes into what becomes a projectile. So,
in the event of a collision, like if you
have a fish tank, it looks cool until
you get into like a a bad accident and
got like a fish tank in your face.
>> There's just not enough room on that
line to like get in the insurance right
tank not start to like become something
that's flying koi everywhere.
>> Okay. Question from Joe Silver. R.J., If
you could drop a Ribean skateboard
platform under any classic vehicle body
like a restood mod, what would it be and
why? What would you choose?
>> I have the answer to that. But I
wouldn't take the whole platform cuz
it's it's bigger than the vehicle. But
>> uh but okay, pretend it would be
>> I would take a the new dual motor, so
two motor per axle that's in the quad.
It's also in the back of the tri and put
it on a 21 window bus.
>> Nice.
>> That sounds like terrifying. It sounds
perfect because it's like 600 horsepower
in the back of a of a bus.
>> Volkswagen has done something sort of
power in the back.
>> What are your thoughts about this
Volkswagen ID Buzz situation?
>> It's a little different, but
>> it's a different idea than what I'm
talking about.
>> It is different. It is different, but
they've they've they've modernized it a
little bit.
>> It's cool. It It's in the list of
vehicles. If I was going to buy a non-
Rivian, it'd be one in my like list of
things I'd
>> What else on that list?
>> What else is on the list? Uh, I think
the Tyan's like a fun car. So, it's um
it's like a four-door 911 that's
electric. So, it's a lot of things.
>> It drives like that, too.
>> Yeah. And I think it's a car that I
often when people ask me about that car,
I say you have to look at it through the
lens of this is a sports car that has
four doors. It's not trying to be a
>> like an everyday luxury sedan.
>> But I think it's
>> Is there a gas powered car on that list
or diesel powered?
>> Yeah.
>> You seen one?
>> What? A 911?
>> Yeah. So, you see like a the 911 ST
would be
>> one car. Yeah. That's the only only
Every enthusiast
>> Yeah. wants one. 100%.
>> It's like every enthusiast and every car
company CEO either wants one or has one
and will never talk.
>> That's true.
>> Hide the 911s.
>> In the vein of your father to make a
request. I love minivans.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> R12
or 23 window bus with
>> Yeah. But I want like a modern regular
looking mini. I just want the utmost
practicality. Can we do a
>> 19187
caravan?
>> Yeah. or just an R1V. Can Can we make
that happen? Sliding door on the side.
Lower lower height,
>> too. I mean, clearly, so we're not
>> something to consider.
>> Yeah, small market, but
>> not in the
>> not a lot. Not a lot.
>> Vans are low on the list.
>> Okay, one more question from Joe Silver.
R.J., if you gave Rivian's design team
zero budget constraints for a Halo
vehicle, what would they build? Or maybe
what would you direct them to build to
build like a Halo car at the top of the
range? Yeah. So, we do a lot of
exercises as the design team.
>> Someday we may have to show all this
>> that like when you're designing when
you're going through like R2 where R2 is
today,
>> the team gets like pulled into like like
painful details. So, you're like
designing the inside of a headlight
>> like reflecting surface
>> and so your brain gets so locked into
sketching R2s and every detail on R2.
And so, we need like ways to reset
thinking and so to like get your brain
remixed. And so we actually do a lot of
things that the design team will do like
a two week sprint on an exercise just to
get our brains reset.
And so that has meant we've designed all
kinds of things like what would Rivian
look like if it was a uh a movie
character like in a superhero movie. Um
but one of the exercises which was a
particularly fun one and directly
related to that question is what would
Rivian look like if we made a hypercar?
>> Yeah. And so internally that was that
design effort or design protocol. What
would the R1R look like?
>> So it was like the R1 guts in terms of
performance
>> right
>> with a completely different body if you
have no constraints like imagine like
carbon fiber monoc
>> and it looked freaking awesome.
>> It's like the thing you really want.
>> Is it like offroy focused or
>> It was so good that like at the end I
was like let me go talk to CL.
>> So what do you think if we we get all
the numbers in the right place? 2029 I
think we want to slip this like 500 unit
production thing in and every's like
yeah not yet
>> forever a car enthusiast question
>> but yeah we have an idea what we would
do
>> interesting so it's but it's not when
you're making high volume
>> it's really hard financially to
rationalize doing something like that
>> so R1R sounds pretty good
>> what have you done with the old uh like
old concept or old um cars that you've
had as test mules and things like that
do you have like personal affinity for
like the first Rivian that drove the
>> We have them all. They're in a
warehouse. We have a warehouse full of
all these.
>> Is this ever going to be like someday
these things get out? And
>> I think the thing that would blow
people's minds is to see the evolution
of this.
>> Yeah. What it used once looked like.
>> Well, there's like three distinct
eras of R1. R1 started as a much smaller
truck
>> really
>> and then it grew and then it went a very
different route in terms of aesthetic
and it looked
>> interesting. It didn't look at all like
it need to look.
>> Have you ever shown these? Have you ever
shown?
>> Never. Never.
>> So before R1 it was called A1
>> and then before A1 it was called P1.
>> Huh.
>> P1 looked very different. It's really
cool. You asth you guys all love it.
>> Yeah, I'm sure.
>> But and then A1
>> it's actually probably less cool. It was
like
>> it became it was too theoretical. It was
like all
>> it looked like engineers had too much
control and the design team was like
shoved and locked into a closet. And
then this was like every everything was
balanced.
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
>> I will say we've talked to a lot of your
design team, including the interior
design team. And I want to say the
interior of the R1S we've been driving
around is the single nicest
>> cuz you're here like
you been on my nicest for my aesthetic
that I've been in. No, cuz it's simple.
It's a lot of natural wood. What color
are you in?
>> The same as this. Like the light blue
leather and the light. It truly is my
favorite interior. For the love of God,
just buy one already. Just like get one.
Come on.
>> No offense.
>> He never buys a car. He always talks
about
>> $20,000 only. So you got a long time for
>> Do we have any f Do we have any final
words for R.J.? Do we have any final
thoughts or
>> Thank you so much for for doing this
with us. I'm sure I I loved going deep
on the mechanics of running a car
company. So thank you for engaging that
>> and for agreeing with Canon that BMW M
E395 is the best.
>> Best M5. The greatest M5.
>> Best M5. Uh, what are you hoping to see
the rest of the day here? I know you're
with your kids.
>> What's Yeah. What's something cool
you're going to go look at?
>> Well, as um a a responsibility I have, I
feel like with my kids is to make sure
that they're properly uh exposed to all
the right things. So, I'm going to walk
them around and and help
>> help explain to them why cars are the
cool cars to look at.
>> I I know somebody with a count by the
top right there. That's where the really
cool stuff is. Aside from the Rivian
booth, of course.
>> There was a Diablo SV that drove by
before,
>> and then right behind it was a really
like zero taste modified
new Lamborghini.
>> Okay.
>> And my son says, he asked about the
Diablo. He's like, "Is that nice?" I'm
like, "That's pretty cool." And then the
next morning, he's like, "How about
that?" I'm like, "No,
>> horrible."
>> And and so I was trying to explain why.
>> I wish I had a dad who was like that.
>> What did you tell him? How'd you
explain? You said this this person has
no taste.
>> Well, the Diablo is an interesting car
because it was it's become more loved
recently. Um,
>> correctly. So,
>> and and you know, we for me I grew up
you know Diablo is like the car that
>> uh I think
>> I think Diablo is interesting because of
the story of it too. There's like you
it's like tube frame car.
>> Yep. that weird transition into
Volkswagen ownership before the cars
were really fully developed like from a
car company
>> when they were still
>> right
>> like parts fell off and charming
wings on in the back of their back drive
especially the rear wheel drive ones
>> get out there and show them all the cool
cars not just the Rivians which are also
cool cars. Thank you so much for coming
on. We sincerely appreciate it and all
the insights and uh thank you for
watching this car pod.
>> Best episode we ever done.
>> Best we've ever done.
>> Goodbye everyone.
>> Bye.
>> Goodbye.
[Music]
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