Ron Ananian dives into the complexities of a brake and suspension repair on a high-mileage Chevrolet Suburban, highlighting challenges like missing parts, frozen bolts, and worn components. He explains the importance of understanding the full scope of repairs, including the interplay between parts and labor costs, while sharing insights on GM design changes and sourcing quality replacement parts. The episode also touches on the evolving auto repair industry and the value of thorough diagnostics to avoid surprises. Ron’s practical approach and long-term experience offer a real-world look at what it takes to keep older vehicles running safely.
On this episode of Ron Ananian, The Car Doctor, Ron opens the show with a story from the service bay about a recent repair and an important lesson for both technicians and vehicle owners: a good repair means looking at everything related to the problem — not just the obvious failure. From related components to the bigger picture of how the vehicle operates, Ron explains why careful diagnosis and thorough thinking are what turn a basic repair into a complete and reliable fix.
Later in the hour, Ron welcomes Tim McDonnell from Mitchell 1 to discuss the latest updates and improvements to Mitchell’s repair and shop management software. They talk about how modern repair information systems are evolving to help shops work smarter, document repairs better, and keep up with the increasing complexity of today’s vehicles.
If you’ve ever wondered what goes into doing a repair the right way, or how professional shops manage information and workflow behind the scenes, this hour gives you a look inside the modern service bay.
Good mechanics aren’t expensive — they’re priceless.
"GM parts, he got all GM pads, rotors, calipers, brake hoses, even brought his own brake fluid."
Brake pads are parts that help your car stop by pressing on a spinning disc. They wear down and need to be replaced sometimes.
Brake pads are components that press against the brake rotors to create friction and slow down or stop a vehicle. They are a critical part of the braking system and wear out over time.
"GM parts, he got all GM pads, rotors, calipers, brake hoses, even brought his own brake fluid."
Brake hoses are rubber tubes that carry the brake fluid to the parts that stop the car. They need to be strong and not leak.
Brake hoses are flexible tubes that carry brake fluid from the hard lines to the brake calipers. They must be in good condition to maintain hydraulic pressure in the braking system.
"GM parts, he got all GM pads, rotors, calipers, brake hoses, even brought his own brake fluid."
Brake calipers are parts that hold the brake pads and push them against the metal discs to stop the car.
Brake calipers are the components that house the brake pads and pistons. They squeeze the pads against the rotors to create the friction needed to slow or stop the vehicle.
"GM parts, he got all GM pads, rotors, calipers, brake hoses, even brought his own brake fluid."
Brake rotors are round metal discs that your car's brakes press on to help it stop. They can get worn out or bent and sometimes need fixing.
Brake rotors are metal discs attached to the wheels that the brake pads clamp onto to slow or stop the vehicle. They can wear or warp and may require resurfacing or replacement.
"GM parts, he got all GM pads, rotors, calipers, brake hoses, even brought his own brake fluid."
Brake fluid is a special liquid that helps your car's brakes work when you press the pedal.
Brake fluid is a hydraulic fluid used in the braking system to transfer force from the brake pedal to the brake calipers. It needs to be clean and at proper levels for effective braking.
"the slides, the pins that move, that allow the caliper to float, are going to be stuck or rusted or worn or something."
Caliper slide pins are small parts that let the brake parts move a little so they can press evenly on the discs. They can get stuck if rusty.
Caliper slide pins allow the brake caliper to move or 'float' slightly, ensuring even pressure on the brake pads. They need to be lubricated and free of rust to function properly.
"Well, he had purchased brand new calipers from GM because he wanted coated calipers."
GM is a big car company in America that makes cars and parts. It stands for General Motors.
GM stands for General Motors, a major American automotive manufacturer known for brands like Chevrolet, GMC, Cadillac, and Buick. GM produces original equipment parts for many vehicles.
"And he's looking for a look and he doesn't want rusty calipers on the front of his tow vehicle. I understand that 100%."
A tow vehicle is a car or truck that pulls a trailer or another vehicle behind it.
A tow vehicle is a vehicle used to pull a trailer or another vehicle. It typically requires robust components like strong brakes and suspension to handle the extra load.
"I can get aftermarket coated calipers from a very reliable source. As a matter of fact, advanced auto parts, I think they make a great caliper."
Aftermarket parts are parts made by other companies, not the car maker. They can be cheaper or look different.
Aftermarket parts are replacement components made by companies other than the original vehicle manufacturer. They can offer different price points, styles, or performance options.
"Of course, when we're doing brakes, we're also looking at the front. And we're checking the front suspension."
Taking care of your brakes means checking parts like the brake pads and suspension to make sure your car stops safely.
Brake system maintenance involves inspecting and servicing components like calipers, pads, rotors, and suspension to ensure safe and effective braking performance.
"The left front wheel bearing had wiggle in it. You could, you know, and we do this, we had taken the brakes down."
A wheel bearing helps the wheel spin easily without wobbling. If it gets loose, the wheel can shake or make noise.
A wheel bearing is a set of steel balls held together by a metal ring that allows the wheel hub to rotate smoothly with minimal friction. A worn or loose wheel bearing can cause noise, vibration, and unsafe handling.
"We were able to rock it a little bit. And you could feel there was probably about four, maybe five thousands of play. The bearing was definitely on its way out because there shouldn't be any play in a front hub bearing."
'Play' means a part is loose or moving when it shouldn't be. For example, if a wheel wiggles too much, it has too much play.
In automotive terms, 'play' refers to unwanted movement or looseness in a component that should be tight or fixed, such as a wheel bearing. Excessive play indicates wear or failure.
"Well, you know, we dug a little deeper. Both lower ball joints were bad."
Lower ball joints are parts that help your car's wheels move up and down and turn left or right. If they get worn out, your car might feel wobbly or hard to steer.
Lower ball joints are suspension components that connect the control arms to the steering knuckles, allowing for smooth movement and steering control. Worn ball joints can cause poor handling and uneven tire wear.
"Now the original control arms, upper and lowers, are aluminum. And, you know, I'm not a fan of pressing ball joints in aluminum."
Aluminum control arms are lighter parts that connect the wheels to the car, helping it handle better, but they can be tricky to work on because aluminum is softer than steel.
Aluminum control arms are lightweight suspension components that reduce unsprung weight and improve handling. However, pressing ball joints into aluminum can be problematic due to the material's softness compared to steel.
"But then I started looking at the rubber bushings because everything's related to everything else, right?"
Rubber bushings are soft parts that help the car's suspension parts move smoothly and stop bumps and noise from shaking the car too much.
Rubber bushings are flexible mounts used in suspension components to absorb vibrations and reduce noise. They allow controlled movement while isolating the chassis from road imperfections.
"And there's a, there's a cam that you can change, you can change your alignment settings. Well, the upper bolts were just frozen."
Alignment means making sure the wheels point straight and work together so your car drives well and the tires last longer.
Alignment refers to adjusting the angles of the wheels so they are set to the car maker's specifications. Proper alignment ensures even tire wear, good handling, and safety.
"So we would have to cut the bolts out. Well, when you cut the bolts out, you're going to cut through the rubber bushing."
Sometimes bolts get stuck and can't be unscrewed, so mechanics have to cut them off with special tools.
Cutting bolts refers to using tools like saws or grinders to remove bolts that are frozen or seized and cannot be loosened by normal means. This is often necessary in repair but can damage surrounding parts.
"... the rubber bushing. But it's cheaper than a new suburban. So we called up our local parts guy, my guy Den..."
The Chevrolet Suburban is a big SUV that can carry lots of people and stuff. It's popular because it lasts a long time and can pull heavy things. Here, they talk about fixing a small part called a rubber bushing, which helps keep the car running smoothly.
The Chevrolet Suburban is a full-size SUV known for its spacious interior and strong towing capabilities. It's often discussed for its durability and utility, making it a popular choice for families and commercial use. In this context, the mention of a rubber bushing highlights common maintenance parts that can be replaced to extend the vehicle's life.
"But I said, I need all the mounting hardware. I need the cams, the bolts, the nuts, the washers. I want all the clips, all right?"
Mounting hardware means all the bolts and clips that hold parts of your car together. You need them to put parts back on properly.
Mounting hardware refers to all the bolts, nuts, washers, clips, and cams used to attach parts like control arms to the vehicle. Having all original hardware is important for proper fit and safety.
""sway bar bushings, sway bar links. And it was about a $5,000 repair, all told.""
Sway bar bushings are like cushions that hold a metal bar under the car. This bar helps keep the car steady when turning corners.
Sway bar bushings are rubber or polyurethane components that cushion and secure the sway bar to the vehicle's chassis, reducing noise and vibration while allowing the sway bar to control body roll during cornering.
""The trans has been done. He's been religious about his oil changes.""
The trans is the part of the car that helps it change gears so it can go faster or slower.
Trans is short for transmission, the component that transfers power from the engine to the wheels, allowing the vehicle to change speeds and move efficiently.
"... Ron, we've spoken to this car a few times. 2004 Explorer may have bitten the dust. My wife was driving th..."
The Ford Explorer is a medium-sized SUV that many people use for family trips. The 2004 version sometimes has problems that can make it stop working well, like issues with the engine or transmission. That might be why they said it 'bit the dust,' meaning it stopped working.
The Ford Explorer is a midsize SUV that has been a staple in the American market for decades. The 2004 model is often noted for certain reliability issues, including transmission and engine problems, which might explain the mention of it 'biting the dust.' It's a common vehicle for families but requires attention to maintenance history.
"...ideos out there showing how to pull a 4-0 from a Ranger Explorer and replace chains and guides."
The Ford Ranger is a small truck that people use for work or fun. Sometimes parts inside the engine, like chains and guides, need to be fixed or replaced to keep the truck running well. The video mentioned shows how to do this kind of repair.
The Ford Ranger is a compact pickup truck valued for its versatility and off-road capability. The reference to replacing timing chains and guides suggests common maintenance tasks to prevent engine damage, especially in older models. It's a practical truck often used for both work and recreational purposes.
"You don't need a turbocharger on a grocery getter. You need something that's reliable, longevity, that's inexpensive to fix."
A turbocharger is like a fan that pushes more air into the engine to make it stronger. But it can make the car more expensive to fix.
A turbocharger is a forced induction device that increases an engine's efficiency and power by forcing extra compressed air into the combustion chamber. While it boosts performance, turbochargers add complexity and can increase maintenance costs.
"Well, thank you. Top of mind for me, for my daily experience here at Mitchell One, is going to be the shop management software."
Mitchell One makes computer programs that help car repair shops keep track of all the work they do, like parts and labor, so things run smoothly.
Mitchell One is a company that provides shop management software solutions for automotive repair shops, helping them manage repair orders, parts, labor, and workflow efficiently.
"Top of mind for me, for my daily experience here at Mitchell One, is going to be the shop management software. So, we're making progress always on several fronts."
Shop management software is a computer program that helps car repair shops keep track of the work they do and the parts they use, making their job easier and faster.
Shop management software is a digital tool used by automotive repair shops to organize and manage repair orders, parts inventory, labor tracking, and customer communications.
"Typically, I would lead off with manager SE. That's our flagship product. It's in tens of thousands of shops."
Manager SE is a popular computer program that helps car repair shops organize their work and keep track of repairs and parts.
Manager SE is the flagship shop management software product by Mitchell One, widely used in tens of thousands of automotive repair shops to streamline their operations.
"The first I would want to mention is the job view function and set of features. So, what it does is it organizes on your order screen."
The job view function is a part of the software that helps car repair workers see all the details of a repair job clearly, so they can do their work better.
The job view function is a feature in shop management software that organizes repair order details on the screen, making it easier for service advisors to manage parts, labor, and sublet items.
""it will tell me Vin. It will give me engine choices. It will help me break down what that is because, you know, it's dialing out to the, in my case, I guess the New Jersey Motor Vehicle database and, you know, it's bringing it up.""
A VIN is like a car's fingerprint. It is a special code that tells you exactly which car it is, including things like the make, model, and engine.
VIN stands for Vehicle Identification Number, a unique 17-character code assigned to every vehicle. It is used to identify the specific vehicle, its manufacturer, model, engine type, and other important details.
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The theory of relativity.
No, it's not going to be Einstein-level physics.
That's not what this is about.
This is about the theory of relativity as it applies to an auto repair shop.
Why auto repair shops do things the way they do and why it's important.
I was thinking about this driving home last night.
It was the end of the week and we had worked on a variety of cars and you think about all
the scenarios and how every week is something different.
I've got to say in my very long career, it seems like every day is a different day.
There's nothing boring about being an auto repair for sure.
This week, Kevin, sort of a regular customer, wanted to bring us his
suburban and needed breaks.
He had purchased the brake parts.
It was too daunting for him to deal with.
He decided at the last minute, no, he didn't want to do with it.
And one of my rules that I try to stick to, and I think I do a pretty fair job of it in
the back of my head, that you can't bring me your parts.
There's a variety of reasons.
There's a liability factor.
There's a business aspect to it.
Are you bringing me the right parts and are they of decent quality?
The shop was a little quiet this week.
We talked about that, you and I.
And I've said that the industry seems to be in a little bit of a downward spiral.
So I said, oh, what the heck, we'll fill the day.
We'll take a simple front brake job on a suburban.
How hard could it be?
GM parts, he got all GM pads, rotors, calipers, brake hoses, even brought his own brake fluid.
So if nothing else, he's thoughtful and he's fastidious in his approach.
He just, he wants everything.
So the first problem cropped up, because you knew there would be,
that the calipers did not have the brackets, the mounting brackets.
And you need those brackets because they are essential that they'll,
that's what holds the caliper to the steering knuckle.
And you need those brackets because typically, especially this 200,000 mile 11 year old suburban,
the slides, the pins that move, that allow the caliper to float,
are going to be stuck or rusted or worn or something.
Well, he had purchased brand new calipers from GM because he wanted coated calipers.
And I understand that.
Kevin's a bit of a sports car guy and a race car guy.
And he's looking for a look and he doesn't want rusty calipers on the front of his tow vehicle.
I understand that 100%.
But, you know, now I've got to go buy brackets.
The brackets are $150 apiece.
I can get aftermarket coated calipers from a very reliable source.
As a matter of fact, advanced auto parts, I think they make a great caliper.
And they're half the price of what the GMs would be.
So we talked about it and we got around that.
I ordered the GMs because the whole caliper was less than the price of the caliper from GM.
And Kevin's going to have an extra set of calipers.
That wasn't the problem.
That was all relative.
See, there's that theory of relativity thing, right?
It was all relative that it got solved and, you know, we balanced it out.
But then we had to move on.
Of course, when we're doing brakes, we're also looking at the front.
And we're checking the front suspension.
And, you know, I heard Danny, Ron, uh-oh.
The left front wheel bearing had wiggle in it.
You could, you know, and we do this, we had taken the brakes down.
We had first checked it with the wheel on because it's easier to grab a, you know,
wheel out to there and give it a wiggle.
We clamped two big vice grips on the flange of the wheel bearing.
We were able to rock it a little bit.
And you could feel there was probably about four, maybe five thousands of play.
The bearing was definitely on its way out because there shouldn't be any play in a front hub bearing.
And, you know, I called Kevin and Kevin, you need a wheel bearing.
You need a left side wheel bearing.
And I said, you know, 200,000 miles, 11 years old.
He said, yeah, right.
He said, you got to do the right side wheel bearing.
So now we're going to do a right side wheel bearing.
So add that to the ticket.
All of a sudden the five, $600 labor repair becomes two wheel bearings, a little bit more labor.
And now we're, you know, we're creeping up to the 12, $1,400 mark.
And I'm thinking in the back of my head, but, you know, a new suburban,
not that there's anything wrong with a new suburban, but, you know, it's all relative,
right?
It's $1,200 worth of front end and brake work that, you know, against the price of a
replacement suburban entry level, suburban's about 80, 85 grand away.
This one was equipped.
Now it's about 105, 110, $110,000 for a suburban.
I sound like my father.
My first house was less than that.
So we kept going.
Well, you know, we dug a little deeper.
Both lower ball joints were bad.
Just plum worn out.
Now, in all fairness, we hadn't seen Kevin in about eight, nine months.
He put a ton of miles on it.
He changed his own oil in between.
And this is our first chance to kind of catch up with the vehicle.
So now we need two lower ball joints.
Well, and, and this is where it kind of gets ugly.
General Motors has two design control arms because, and the problem is the lower ball
joint is swedged, meaning that it's pressed into place.
And then they bend over a piece of steel flap to sort of retain the ball joint into
the knuckle, into the control arm.
Now the original control arms, upper and lowers, are aluminum.
And, you know, I'm not a fan of pressing ball joints in aluminum.
First of all, I'd have to grind that bent over flap off.
And then I've got to be certain that I grab it right.
I've got to take the control arm.
The easiest way is really out of the vehicle.
We started looking at the contours of the arm.
I don't think the ball joint press would really lay flat.
Okay, we'll take the control arm out.
But then I started looking at the rubber bushings because everything's related to
everything else, right?
The theory of relativity.
The 200,000 mile, 11 year old suburban, the inner control arm or the lower bushing on the,
on the right, right side and the left front, both bushings were bent.
As a matter of fact, we tried, the other side of this was we tried to turn the cam bolts.
When I say cam bolts, to do an alignment on a GM truck, the upper control arm bolts pivot.
And there's a, there's a cam that you can change, you can change your alignment settings.
Well, the upper bolts were just frozen.
We could not get them to move.
So we would have to cut the bolts out.
Well, when you cut the bolts out, you're going to cut through the rubber bushing.
But it's cheaper than a new suburban.
So we called up our local parts guy, my guy Dennis,
up at Bowman Chevrolet in Rockland County, New York.
And I love Dennis.
He's great.
Dennis has been with me, geez, 45 years at least.
I, the mid 80s, Dennis and I started our journey together in the, in the auto repair business.
And, you know, hey, Ron, yeah, then, hey, you know, what do I tell them what we're working on?
I pulled up the illustrated picture of what I have because I have, I have GM parts information at the
shop and he says, what do you need?
I go one through 12 and he looked at me or he looked at me.
He looked at me through the phone, I guess in my mind, right?
I can see Dennis staring me down.
What do you mean one through 12?
I said, well, I need the two control arms, which you've got to explain to me.
There's four different part numbers listed and it turns out that there's a first design,
a second design, and then maybe it might be this one anyway.
So GM's guessing their best.
So it turns out now we have steel upper and lower control arms instead of aluminum.
But I said, I need all the mounting hardware.
I need the cams, the bolts, the nuts, the washers.
I want all the clips, all right?
200,000 miles, 11 years of New Jersey winters, salt, grit, dirt, dust, you know, it's all there.
It's all beat up.
And the point becomes, and I explained it all to Kevin and Kevin got it and I convinced Dennis
that this is what I wanted and I got it, right?
But the point becomes, you have to think like that.
It's very important.
Because as it turned out, and I hate to say I was right and I told you so,
but I was right because as we're starting to do the repair, the three of the four
control arm bolts on one side and all of the control arm bolts on the other side
were frozen in the rubber bushings.
They were the sleeves.
You'd have to cut all the bolts.
So now you have to cut all the bolts to get the cross member out, right?
If the bushings weren't bad before, they're bad now.
And the choice would be, well, we could leave the vehicle on the lift, let it sit there,
and order the parts we needed as we needed it.
And this is where you start to think about relativity.
What's important?
You know, we want to get the vehicle in, we want to get the vehicle out,
we want to get it off the lift as fast as possible because a vehicle sitting on a lift
isn't producing money for the repair shop and it's also not helping the day along as you're
trying to get through the other three or four or five or 10 cars depending on the size of the shop.
So everything is relative and that's what I was thinking about driving home last night.
Everything is relative.
You have to look at every repair as how bad or how much do you need?
How complete do you want to be?
How fast do you want to get it done?
Because all those questions and more go through the mind of every technician,
every repair shop owner, every time, every day that they're working on a vehicle.
Because if you don't, it takes longer, it ends up costing the same.
It actually costs more for production loss for a vehicle stuck on a lift
and it frustrates the customer and ruins their day too.
Both pocketbook and from lack of having their vehicle.
Really important, theory or relativity.
Einstein was on to something, I think I am too.
I'm Ronanini in the car doctor.
I'll be back right after this.
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It's Shelly Rome late at night.
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And we're back, and if you didn't know.
And just to close it out, regarding that suburban.
So when we were done, it was upper and lower control arms,
all new bull joints, obviously, control arm bushings,
the bolts, the hardware, everything that bolts it in.
We ended up, yeah, pads, rotors, calipers, brake hoses,
sway bar bushings, sway bar links.
And it was about a $5,000 repair, all told.
But is that cheaper than a new vehicle?
The trans has been done.
He's been religious about his oil changes.
He's done all his other fluids and maintenance.
He's done his fuel system cleaning.
And the body's in great shape.
So the relativity thing is, I guess it's twofold,
and I'm modifying it now thinking about it.
One is relativity.
It's relative to what's the replacement price,
and it's relative to how great has your relationship been
with that vehicle?
Have you taken care of that vehicle?
Have you done what you're supposed to do?
Not, well, I think I can get 10,000 miles
between oil change intervals,
because all the trolls on the internet tell me that's okay.
So that's not real world, because that doesn't happen.
No vehicle goes 200,000 miles on 10,000 mile oil changes.
I haven't seen it.
But just think about that.
Before I go on to this email, by the way,
think about this too.
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Just click subscribe if you can tell your neighbors,
if you can tell your friends,
hey, you're looking for a good mechanic.
Here he is, because we're trying to drive the numbers,
and the numbers are working, right?
I think we were up last count in our social media meeting
this week.
We were up 11.5%.
So whatever you guys are doing, keep it up.
You're doing a great job.
And we all appreciate it, Tom and I,
and everybody that's here trying to make the car doctor grow bigger.
Like I said, my wife wants to see me on TV.
I don't know how crazy I am about that idea,
but you know what the heck?
We'll give it a shot,
and don't forget we've got a YouTube channel,
and hat and t-shirt season's coming up,
so get out the cardoctorshow.com.
This email comes to us from John,
and this is sort of following up to what we were talking about.
Hey, Ron, we've spoken to this car a few times.
2004 Explorer may have bitten the dust.
My wife was driving the car in the Fast Lane
on a four-lane interstate here in Portland, Oregon,
and notice that the dad said check gauges.
It did this once before,
and it was for a cracked plastic thermostat housing and coolant loss
and overheating, no issues, new housing and stat,
car was fixed, ran fine.
This time it was for the same condition, check gauges,
but this time the car felt like it was losing power, she said.
She was able to limp over to the shoulder,
I called for a tow, came out and swapped cars with her, good man,
and stayed until the car was towed to my mechanic.
I make sure he dollied it.
By that he means he makes sure they didn't flat tow it,
right, because there's a concern with an all-wheel drive vehicle,
depending upon the setup.
This time it won't start.
It sounds like there is no compression,
like maybe a timing chain,
which is notorious on the four-liter engines.
It is, and it's a big job, it's a lot of work.
The mechanic quoted 40 hours of labor to pull the engine
and replace plus parts, probably a $5,000 job.
Yeah, I'm not gonna have him do anything,
but I would love to remove the engine just to see what happened.
Do you think the two are related,
overheating and timing chains?
As you know, there are four of them.
There are enough YouTube videos out there
showing how to pull a 4-0 from a Ranger Explorer
and replace chains and guides.
I might try this, but it's a big job.
It may be yard time.
John, I think if I was gonna keep this vehicle,
well, a couple of thoughts go through my mind.
Number one, it's an 04, so it's 22 going on 23 years old.
You gotta think about parts.
I don't know the exact history of this vehicle.
I know you've taken very good care of it or tried to,
but my concern is parts, parts availability.
I'm not gonna run the, if the trans blew up in six months,
after you did the engine, would you fix it?
Because I already know the answer to that question.
I already know the answer to the question
of how good a shape is the body in,
because I've come to know John through emails.
I wouldn't know if he was standing next to me,
but I can tell you, this man is fastidious.
He could probably eat off his garage floor.
And I think the concern becomes,
instead of going in just to do timing chains,
I don't remember how many miles are on this Explorer,
but I think it was over 100 grand.
I think I would seriously just consider replacing the engine.
I think I would do this once and drive it
another five or 10 years and just be aware of parts
and start stockpiling a few things here and there.
And even if it was 10 grand, 10 grand is cheaper.
A new Explorer, which I don't think is as nice
as the older Explorers to be honest,
we looked at Explorers two years ago
and we thought they'd gotten a little tinny
and lack of insulation and a bunch of other things.
But I think if you look at the price of a new Explorer,
they're in the $60,000 to $65,000 range.
Everything is turbocharged, which in this mechanics opinion,
I think turbos have their place,
but I don't think on every vehicle made in the United States,
it's so hard to buy a vehicle without a turbo now.
And the problem for the record, I think, is that it's added cost.
Nothing against putting three carburetors on a vehicle 50, 60 years ago,
but if you just needed basic transportation,
you didn't need three carburetors to have one of them fail
and cost a couple of hundred dollars back then to fix.
You don't need a turbocharger on a grocery getter.
You need something that's reliable, longevity,
that's inexpensive to fix.
Turbocharged anything is not inexpensive to fix.
It's a lot of bucks.
So, you know, John, back to this,
this is a very simple practical vehicle.
It's got a couple of flaws and holes in it,
but replacing the engine will resolve the timing chain,
water pump, leaky valve cover problem,
and you'll know where you're at at that point.
And I think I would price that engine that way,
as far as, you know, a complete overhaul.
If this is a less than 100,000 mile vehicle, all right.
Now I've got to make the argument in my head,
it overheated once.
What sort of damage happened to it when the chains fell off,
if that's what happened?
And yeah, pull it apart and let's do an exploratory,
but I think engine replacement is more in the future
of this vehicle for the longevity of the vehicle,
regardless of the price.
It's all relative.
I'm Ron and Annie in the car doctor,
coming up next, Tim McDonald from Mitchell One Software.
We'll be right back after this.
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This next segment of the Car Vodka,
thanks for being here,
is all about information, management of, coordination of,
and efficient use of, and we've reached out to none other
than our good friend Tim McDonald over at Mitchell One,
and Tim's here today with us to talk about it,
and some of the changes upcoming over at Mitchell,
what they're doing to keep us on our toes,
and keep us on the cutting edge of this industry
that's always evolving and always changing,
and it's always fun to talk with Tim.
Tim, welcome aboard, sir.
Hey Ron, nice to be back with you.
So, right, information.
I, we always start the conversation here every year,
about management and expectations, and, you know,
where we want to start.
We want to talk about, you know,
how we're managing the shop, repair information.
You tell me, what's new and exciting
in the world of manager and Mitchell repair?
What's going on over there?
Well, thank you.
Top of mind for me, for my daily experience here at Mitchell One,
is going to be the shop management software.
So, we're making progress always on several fronts.
Typically, I would lead off with manager SE.
That's our flagship product.
It's in tens of thousands of shops.
And, you know, we're always making incremental changes
and improvements, and we've really been successful
in the last 18, 24 months in introducing some major changes,
figuring out how to do new things to make it possible.
The first I would want to mention is the job view function
and set of features.
So, what it does is it organizes on your order screen.
If you're a service advisor,
instead of considering all those grid line items
that you're looking at, parts, labor, sublet,
no, it's all those things.
Instead of treating that as one monolithic item,
we have introduced job view containers.
And by doing that, it means that I've always been able
to check profit on the whole order.
Now, I can check profit per job.
With the job containers, I can control the shop supplies,
hazmat, fees, discounts, first time multiple discounts
are possible now.
And with a right click, if they decline,
I can push it to the revision screen.
I can say, hey, make this one into a canned job.
All I got to do is put a name on it.
So, there's lots of continuously applied shortcuts
that are now possible with job view.
But the kicker is the document that we hand the customer.
It's now perfectly delineated with subtotals for each job,
so they can clearly see what each item is going to cost.
Oh, it's easy to read in simple English.
It's not that confusing.
I'm not sure what I bought, but I spent $1,200.
Exactly.
It's not that driveway moment of trying to explain the work.
And I've had people do that.
They'll bring me an invoice from...
Sometimes it's the dealer, sometimes it's another shop,
and you can't read it.
It doesn't decipher well.
It does not compute.
Right.
So, your pictures don't matter.
You're breaking it down into different...
Because really, as a consumer out there,
listen, our shops love hearing this stuff
that listened to this radio show.
But for the consumer out there, they're going,
why do I care about this?
I think they care about this conversation
because the shop that's using Mitchell Manager SA
is an efficient shop, is an organized shop,
and they're able to manage history.
I always go back to...
One of the things I really enjoy about manager,
as we use it in the shop every day, is it's got the same feel.
It always reminds me of when I go to the doctor.
Yeah, you ever go to the doctor,
and how they run their schedule, and they take you in,
and they sign you up for various tests,
and various things to do.
That's really what Mitchell Manager has become over the years.
And now the job view function breaks it down
into such simple language that I can tell Mrs. Jones,
you know what, here's the oil change,
here's the brake check, here's the tire rotation.
We don't want to do the brake check this time, that's fine.
And it's simple...
I'll use your word, delineation, right?
Say the word, Tim.
It's delineation.
That's the...
There you go, I've got a little stutter today.
But it's the same breakout,
it's that simple breakout of what I'm not doing
versus what I'm doing,
and that's what I think manager does so well
in that use with job view.
Right, so the thing about the relationship with the customers
is just building that confidence and trust.
And if it is a significant ticket,
you know, a high dollar item that had happened,
that they can come away from that
and know exactly what you did
and see the value of it clearly.
Right, and then if they don't do something,
you know, hey, I want to put that off till next time.
Now we can transfer that over to a revision.
And it sits there.
Now it used to be one of the things that I found
kind of got to be a blockade.
I only had nine revisions at one point.
And it's very easy in this day and age
for somebody to have nine revisions,
or sometimes we use the revision function
for storing certain history
if we want on hand up close and personal.
But now you've changed the revisions around, right?
Tell me about that.
Yes, so since we laid the groundwork with job view,
which by the way won two P10 awards,
that's an industry organization
that both experts and people choice
was stunned to hold that trophy
just the other day for a photo.
But that laid the groundwork for the rework
that we did on the revision screen.
So yeah, we had shops saying,
you know, I really need to have more than nine slots.
Well, we agree with you.
So what we did is we changed the architecture of the screen
taking what we built into it with job view
and used a plus one approach.
So now you just hit the plus sign, add another one,
add another one, add another one.
So if you have a car that, I mean,
I think the phrase theology is it's a lift hog
if it's been around the shop for a long time.
Right.
Maybe, maybe it was supposed to be there for three days
and it's been like four weeks
because you're waiting for parts or who knows what.
So the idea is you need more revisions
to address those other needs or repairs as they come up.
So this allows you to do that.
You can have as many revisions as you care to do that.
And when we open up a screen to make changes,
we try to put in other user requests
and we added a comments column
so that the shop could put in their own notes,
addressing those revisions, do this one first, talk to Joe.
This is a special tool you've got to have,
those type of things.
And then also in the process was tightening up
the revisions to the recommendations.
Remember, the recommendation is that customer language
that's important to explain what the repair is
and what needs to be done.
And then the revision supplies those details, parts, labor, etc.
Tim, we've talked about this over the years
and we've been doing this a long time, you and I,
both here and in our careers.
The shop that's most efficient,
the shop that manages the information,
sure they're going to be more profitable.
And obviously, listen, I go to a doctor
and I hope that he's doing well
and he's going to stay in business
and he's there for my next physical.
And I don't know anybody that walks into a doctor and says,
gee, I hope this guy goes out of business next year.
He's making too much money.
I'm hoping people walk into my shop and go,
gee, I hope he's here next year
because I want him to be profitable enough
to be here to take care of my problems next year.
That's what manager, you know,
the shop that's using a manager program,
the odds are they're going to be there
because they're organizing and managing their information, right?
And this, all the things we've just talked about
helps them do that so much more.
Exactly.
I mean, the fact that you just have
any of the vehicle repair history,
one click away in the history tab
and that I can print a tech worksheet
to give the technician that has dates
and category of service that,
hey, when did we do the brakes last time?
Oh, there it is.
And there's the mileage with it.
So having that kind of information ensures
that we give that proper customer experience.
You know, I think everybody that uses Manager SE
has something that hits their button
more than something else.
For me, and everything you're talking about here
I've been using, it's phenomenal stuff,
but I go back a couple of years
when you did the, you know, I can,
I do it like this, you know,
oh, hey, I need an appointment.
Sure, send me an email.
I give out my email to the new client
and send me name, address, phone number
and just send me the license plate of your vehicle.
Well, don't you want to know the,
don't you want to know the year make model?
Nope, I don't need that
because I can plug it into Mitchell.
I can plug it into Manager SE
and Manager will not only tell me your make model,
it will tell me Vin.
It will give me engine choices.
It will help me break down what that is because,
you know, it's dialing out to the,
in my case, I guess the New Jersey Motor Vehicle database
and, you know, it's bringing it up.
And to me, now when I order parts
because it's, it's not just impressing the new customer,
but now when I have to order parts for that new customer,
everything is Vin based.
I don't have to enter the Vin.
I don't have to enter in the 17 digits.
And that saves time and saving time makes money.
And exactly.
And then let's second guessing, no return parts
because that when you push the catalog button,
that Vin is visible in that title bar.
You know that you're going to see the right categories
and choices.
Right. And I just found that button, by the way.
I think it was the button that lets you put the license plate
at the top of the vehicle screen.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And lead off with that,
because that's the first thing you'll put in.
That's the first thing you put in.
And it just, it's just so many improvements.
It's just, it's just efficient use.
And I think that's what strikes me
is the most important benefit.
I always tell everybody, I'm not really fixing cars.
I'm managing time and expectations.
And, you know, and that's right.
So true.
And that's what manager helps you to do.
And that's, that's really the takeaway.
Let's pull over, take a pause, Tim.
When we come back, can I pry out the future?
Like I always try to wheedle that out of you.
What's coming next?
We can share some things.
Okay.
Tia, I'm Ron Anini in the car doctor
here with Tim McDonald of Mitchell Manager SE.
And we'll both return right after this.
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Well, we've reached that part in the program.
And thanks for returning.
Where I usually say to Tim, okay, Tim,
I've got four, four and a half minutes.
What do you want to talk about now?
And Tim will go, well, and I really kind of write, Tim,
but what's new and exciting coming up at Manager SE?
What can you share with us?
All right.
Well, then let's look in the crystal ball for Manager SE 9.3,
which is probably going to be about April when that comes out.
First feature already finished is file attachment.
What the heck?
What's the value?
All right, so when you're on the order screen
and you will hover your mouse over the lines,
there'll be a new column in there.
It'll say, do you want to add a document?
And so this gives the user the opportunity
to store photos, a video, or maybe even a diagnostic result
that's stored in Altus Drive.
What we're doing is we're associating it to that repair
order item so that once we've even put it in history,
two years later, it's still there.
We, oh, that's what we saw at that time.
So that's the value of it.
And there's going to be a gallery,
so they'll have some existing images that could be reused.
So we're excited about that.
That's in the can already done.
And then we also have an upgraded inspections program,
the multi-point inspection.
Manager SE inspections will come out,
and that will be performed on a mobile device.
And then that will be fed back to the service advisor
to price the faulty items identified.
And then they're going to push that out
to the customer as a text message.
And that customer will review the items,
including any video, phone, or photos that we want to include,
and arrive at which things they want to have done,
and those that they'll decline for now,
push the approve button, goes back to the shop,
they can dispatch to perform the work that was approved,
and push the other work into revisions,
and then Manager SE can do its job
and remind you of that future business
the next time they come back in.
It sounds like we're shopping on Amazon.
I want this.
I want this.
It is that user experience.
Yeah.
That's the desired goal.
So we're going to hit it with that goal.
That's kind of cool.
And what else was there?
I didn't mean to cut you off.
Go ahead.
Yeah, no worries.
The big one that we're working on right now,
and the code name,
what we're calling it, refer right now, is digital engine.
The name may change by the time it comes out,
but the premise is very simple,
but kind of elegant in a way.
Leveraging a little bit of AI,
what we can do is we can put all of the related parts
and labor together on the same screen.
You can use natural language, type in whatever you want,
and we're going to push all those choices to you.
It's like, hey, you're not going to forget the gasket.
You're not going to forget these other related parts.
We have also figured out 400, I think so far, 470,
stored job templates.
So it's like you're replacing a water pump.
You're doing breaks, whatever it may be.
We're going to bring up all of the logical labor choices
with the part choices so that it just speeds up the process.
Shops make so many estimates every day,
and not all of those come to fruition.
What we want to do is reduce the time necessary
to get that right into the shop's hands,
where they can quickly turn that around to a customer
and get the approvals.
Wow.
And it's just, again, making shops more efficient.
You know, one of the needs thing
that all of the Mitchell products do,
and obviously it's more than just manager,
is type the word alternator in on repair
or type it in on manager, right?
You guys will spell check it.
You'll help get us to it in repair side.
You'll spell check it on the manager side.
You'll help us to.
So if we're not a good speller,
and if we type with all thumbs,
you know, we can still somehow put together
a pretty neat, clean-looking repair order, correct?
We can still save those users.
Yes, absolutely.
So we now have a new attribute
when you're in the repair and estimating debt
is called, did you mean?
And so therefore, if you should happen to
leave a few letters out,
we can still figure out what you're trying to get to
and get you there successfully.
And I got to tell you, Tim, it always amazes me,
and I always come back to the same conclusion.
It seems like you guys are looking at the medical industry,
or maybe they're looking at you,
and you're creating a similar management program
that the doctors are using,
and it's how efficient they are, right,
is what we want to be in order to repair.
Exactly. Get through that process efficiently.
Yep. Working the listeners,
go get more information, my friend.
You can go to Mitchell1.com,
and you can look at all sorts of product information
and helpful assets.
Cool beans. We'll be back again, Tim.
You be well.
You too. Thanks.
I'm Ron Anani in the car doctor.
We'll be back right after this.
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So to close it out,
I went to a training class this week
put on by the folks by Wise Auto Parts here in New Jersey.
Great, great auto parts store.
And they always put on a great seminar.
They had a gentleman Chris, trainer Chris,
came in from Standard Motor Products.
And the whole gig was about air conditioning.
Thermal management was part of the title of the class.
Just talking about the different ways that we do AC.
Hybrids are interesting.
Start-stop technology is interesting
because when the vehicle's off,
they've got to keep the car cool or warm, right?
And I got to tell you, the most fun part,
well, I got identified.
Somebody there, Vito, it was Vito,
from the Department of Public Works
for the town of Chatham, Chatham, New Jersey.
Vito works over there, hardworking guy does the plow trucks,
keeps us going, keeps the town in the roads of Chatham safe
and free and clear of debris and snow
and all that good stuff during bad weather.
But he's also a DPW worker.
He works on all the trucks, the big salters and stuff.
And he kind of found out who he was sitting next to.
And it was sort of surreal.
We took a couple of pictures.
He talked about how he started listening to me back when
with his grandma.
And just as he was about to enter trade school
and he couldn't get over it.
So, Vito, this one's for you, babe.
Yes, that was me.
Pleasure to meet you.
I'm Ron Anani and The Car Doctor.
Till the next time.
Good mechanics aren't expensive.
They're priceless.
See ya.
Yeah, he's a car doctor.
Car advice done right.
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