Shop Owners and Techs MUST Communicate Better | Lucas Underwood

I came into this wanting to try and like do something, right, to help our industry, right, right? Like, I wanted to help technicians feel like they meant something and they mattered and they were important. I wanted to like help owners see that technicians weren't always the bad guy, and I wanted technicians to see that owners weren't always the bad guy. And if we could just have conversations and, and communicate a little bit, that we might be able to make things better.

Yesterday, you probably heard me— you could probably smell my brain burning from there, eh? Yesterday, that was pretty stressed out. Yeah, that was frustrating. Yeah, I had to, I had to call and rant at Brian, um, even though he wasn't responsible in any way, shape, or form. But it was just— he had to

take the butt chewing.

Yeah, I'm like, motherfer, this friggin' one service information system,

dude. Only time it, it wakes me up a little bit because, um, we were in California at ETI and, um, a really well-known shop owner, right? And, and so I— for, for a lot of people, they don't know who these people are. Bob Cooper started— I, I don't know that he started, but Bob Cooper ran Elite. Okay. And Elite was kind of like one of the original coaching companies with ATI and the others. And they— the Elite was, buddy, back in the heyday— and they— Darren Barney runs it now, it's a really good operation— but back in the heyday, it was like the crème de la crème. It was the best of the best when it came to shop coaching. And one of his coaches, original coaches, was on a panel in, uh, at Tool Tech.

PTI Tool Tech. And, you know, Keith Perkins is in the audience. Lots of people in the audience that I'm friends with know— very smart people. Yeah. And when we did the— like, we did a pre-panel meeting on the things that we're going to talk about on the shop owner panel, and we start talking about ADAS calibrations because that's a big thing for them, right? Like, where's the future of this going? Because ETI is about the future of the industry, right? Like, the, the trade shows that most of us go to are about where we're at right now. Yeah, ETI is about where are we going to be in 10 years, and, and it's got the manufacturers and it's got the, the tool companies, stuff like that. And so they're big into like, hey, are we going to have static? Are we going to have dynamic? What is this going to look like? We know it's going to get more advanced, there's no way it's getting less advanced. What are we going to do and how are we going to do this? And so the topic of calibration came up and we were saying like, hey, you know, or what are you doing to handle calibrations? And, and this very well-known very smart shop owner, okay, would never ever do anything that would put anybody in jeopardy ever.

So we're not doing them. And I said, hey, I'm— I would be concerned about this if I'm in your shoes, right? And he said, okay. And I thought it was really impressive because he did not lock up, he didn't become disrespectful, he didn't shut the conversation down. He said Okay, let me do some research and get to the bottom of this, because if you're telling me this, I, I want to know. I need to know. He wasn't. And I, I really commend that because that takes a ton of willingness to swallow the ego, swallow the pride, not say, I'm the big bad boy shop owner, I've got a massive shop, you don't know what you're talking about, right? He said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure out what's going on. I'm gonna seek first to understand.

I thought that was amazing. Because that's how good businesses are ran. It doesn't have anything to do with emotion. Yeah, has to do with facts and data. And he said— so we get on this panel and he said, listen, I went to my lead technician and he said that according to the service information that we have, it doesn't have to be calibrated. He believes as long as he puts it all back together the way it came apart and he doesn't affect that thing, it doesn't have to be calibrated. And so we got to talking about it and we said, yeah, but service information. He said, I brought the service information with me, it's right here.

Guess what? In the procedure it says remove bumper and reinstall bumper. Doesn't say anything about calibrating anything. Now if you went into the bumper procedure, guess what it says? Yeah, calibration. And so I think that there were some people in that room who wrote that service information and every one of them went, "Oh God!" Like, "Oh man!" But I want you to think about that. Like, as shop owners, one of the things that, that I don't think is often thought about— me and you have talked a lot about this— but as shop owners, I have to depend on you. Yeah. I have to depend on Eric to give me the right information. And, and, you know, we're not always going to be right.

We're not always going to get the data right. I'm not right all the time by any means, but when we start talking about major safety things, we're start— talking about major liability things, and that's a little spooky.

And that's where the ball gets dropped so many of the times between the technician and the counters, because the technician assumes right? You know, that old thing, asset, you and me, that they know every time something like that is done, it should be sold or quoted or recommended, or the— in, you know, asterisk saying you declined, all that kind of stuff. And then sometimes the shop is— the technician is not doing their due diligence to look it up and see. So I always err on the side of caution of like, I'm pretty sure this is gonna need, and then it's in their hands.

I'd much rather step it back down than miss it and have to— I'd rather—

you know? You know, I'd rather roll it up to my own machine and figure out that there is nothing, you know, my autel machine or my launch machine tells me there's no— nothing required, you know, it's all good or whatever, or send it out to the shop and, and pay the sublet and the shop go, yeah, no, you don't need to. Um, I think what's gonna have to happen, Lucas, is if we keep talking about it enough I think you're going to see like the service information systems almost like anything, it becomes like a red button at the top. Yeah, must be done if, you know, for sure. How many times we take a seat out of a car and now with active seat and who, who bothers to calibrate the seat weight sensors again?

No one.

Exactly.

Well, and I mean even beyond that though, right? Like my, my biggest frustration or my biggest aggravation— let's think about this for a minute— if if it's not in the service information, if it's lost in translation, right? And, and dude, I'm telling you, I, I understand there's a lot of cop— a lot of copypasta, right? Like copy it from the vehicle manufacturer, put it over here, clean it up, make it understandable. But man, there's stuff that's not getting transferred over.

Well, and that's— I explained it to my service writer yesterday. I said, you got to realize, like, pro demand not to throw one particular under the bus, but we'll just use the example talking about yesterday. They don't get to purchase every page of, of service information that Ford provides for that vehicle. They have to make a choice on what they buy or get or whatever. So we're talking about a power seat circuit that doesn't exist in Proton. It would exist in the OE. And I, I said, we hope it would. I said, this is— well, and then Brian Pollock talked to me about a GM versus a Silverado thing, like a Chevrolet versus a GMC truck and headlight circuits and stuff.

But like, I'm— I learned a long time ago, you put the VIN in. You don't just go 2022 whatever and trim line and guess and all that kind of stuff. I put the VIN in, that should then break it down to me at all the levels that I need. If I need something else, I got to go look up the body codes, all that kind of just— I'm good with it. Nowhere does it say that I'm not looking at the wrong service information. It keeps— and I'm going, oh, that wire color is wrong but the pin's right. Yeah, turns out I'm looking for a completely different circuit that's now got two fuses for power seats instead of one. I went down a complete rabbit hole because I'm trusting the service information, dude.

I'm telling you, and I got, I got burned on the Cummins a while back. It was an ECM connector. Yeah, and, and I've got it pulled out and I'm going down the wires and I'm like Everything except for these 5 wires are, are the right colors. Why are these off? Why does that look like that? And I went through it like 4 times. I was checking powers and grounds and I'm like, something is not right here. Yeah. And so I backed back out of it and went into Chrysler service information and it was a split year. Now I've worked on those trucks for years.

Yup.

Right. And it just so happened that I'd never been across this one that was like right here at this bastard year. And so I pull the service information, it's a completely different diagram. Like, damn it, dude, I gotta go back through everything I did now. It was my own fault, right? I should have stopped when I saw those wire colors being different. I should have been like, something's not right, I need to stop what I'm doing. But like, you know, and, and we're in a world now where, okay, like, we talk about shop profits, right? And, and there's a lot of discussion about shops making money, things like that. And so the standard number is the shop has to make 60% gross profit.

And if the shop makes 60% gross profit, then, you know, ideally you got 20% net profit. The rest of that is expense. Okay, now the shops that get to 20% net, buddy, they are lean machines. They are aggressive. Okay, you wanna talk about charging for toilet paper, right? Like, they, they ration toilet paper there. You know, you only get one little thing of floor cleaner a day. They, they have to run very lean. That's how you get to 20%.

Cecil tells me that the majority of shops are somewhere around 4% net profit. Okay, now listen, I think it's important we talk about this, okay? Because you have gross income— that's how much the shop makes. Yeah. You've got gross profit, and that's after I pay my technicians and my— for my parts That's how much I have left. That's gross profit. And then I have my expenses. That's my overhead, all of those things. And those are on my P&L, and they go down to the bottom.

The last number at the bottom is net profit. Now, everything isn't on that P&L, right? Like, I have loan servicing. Now, interest expense is in there, but on that P&L, it's not saying, hey, you repaid the loan. It's saying that, hey, here's how much money came in, here were your expenses, but the loan is on a balance sheet. So a lot of folks don't understand, like, just because the P&L says we made this much doesn't mean that we kept that much, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

And so my point in saying all this is, like, we talk about, okay, we want to pay technicians more, uh, we want to pay service advisors more, we think owners should earn a decent wage, right? Because this is a stressful job. I mean, you, you've listened to me like in agony a couple times saying like, I, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I'm cut out for this.

Yeah.

And so like, I believe the owner should get paid and we're sitting here talking about, okay, well we need more service information. All right. Subscribe to Chrysler, subscribe to Ford, subscribe to Kia, subscribe to like all of them different manufacturers. And you tell me how much a month that is.

Yeah, it's a— and, and then all of a sudden we blink in our— on our hourly rates, $300 an hour,

just exactly just to pay the bills.

And we have people coming in that are like— we're having unfortunately to put on the cost of really expensive service information. Yeah, that their car is never going to utilize. Like somebody drives in with a Kia, right? And, and part of your calculated cost is service information for you know, Mercedes, we know that this— the OE level script for Mercedes is higher than the

one for— yeah, buy that Xentry, baby. No.

So, and this is the frustrating thing, and it's like, you know, people— I say, well, people have got to just say no more. Yeah, you know, say no to certain jobs, but you can't. The frustrating thing with that, going back to the service information thing, is like Brian and I— or I, I ranted at Brian and I said, so at what point then does it become the process that when you find an error in the published service information, at what point, how many minutes, time, whatever, dollar amount do you stop? Yeah, right. Do you stop immediately? Because you know how it is, sometimes it's like the wire color is wrong but it all works and you just ignore the color you work on.

And see, that's my issue, right? And, and you've heard me talk about this before. I'm completely okay with giving myself the grace on that time. I'm okay spending an extra hour on it being like, dude, that was stupid. I went down a rabbit hole. I don't feel the same way if Eric spends a whole extra hour on it because I understand what that's actually costing the shop. Yeah, right. I can do it and it doesn't cost the shop anything except for my time, right? And so it's one thing for me to make that mistake. It's, it's more painful for somebody else to make that mistake right now.

It— let's be truthful. It doesn't matter whether it's me or somebody else. I'm saying that I recognize as owners, we give ourself grace to make stupid mistakes that we don't give our people. Mm-hmm. But, but here's the thing about all of this though, is that we have to be able to analyze that information and say, is this right or wrong? We've got to be able to look at that information and make a call pretty quickly. Yeah, I, I, you know, We always talk about tying automotive back to— I'm going off in a, on a rabbit hole, right? And I hope everybody understands this is one of mine and your just regular rant sessions. We have these telephone calls often, or voice— you don't want to see our voice chats, okay? But, but here's the thing, we talk about the medical field and how it ties into automotive, right? And, and two of the most impactful videos I've ever seen. I've shared this with you before.

There is a PBS special and it's called, um, I can't remember, it's, it's Mount Sinai Hospital and it's talking about end of life. It's talking about dying and it's talking about this doctor who has to go in and say to this woman that her husband's lying there dying, I'm sorry, I, I don't— like, I know you wanted to go to Maine and I know you want to do all these things but he's going to be here with us. Like, this, this is where this ends, right? And I think about that, man. It gives me cold chills to think about it, you know, like all the stuff that's happened over the last couple years, right? It's emotional for me. But, but I think about that and think about how hard that job must be to take and give that news to somebody that really loves that person laying in that bed. We're unwilling to go say, hey, it's

going to be $170 more, right?

We're, we're far more worried about that than, than she is having this really complex, really difficult conversation. And so I think that we tie ourselves to like the medical profession, but I also think that if me or you pull up that wiring diagram and I get it wrong, worst case scenario, I've slammed a power probe on it,

pushed the button, and fried a module, right?

Nobody died. Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, we, we talk about the major liabilities that could exist if you did something wrong and got somebody be hurt or killed, right? And those exist, I'm not saying they don't. But I'm just saying, we compare ourselves to doctors. And if they cut the wrong wire, someone dies. Yeah. Someone is, is, you know, never gets back to that place that they were before. And it's not their fault, right? They're making split-second decisions trying to save somebody's life. I had a discussion with a doctor one time, he's a client of the shop, and he said, one of the reasons I wanna move out of medical practice is because if someone comes into the hospital and they have been shot, I'm an ER physician.

Somebody comes into the hospital, they've been shot. I face tremendous liability in each one of those situations because what if I didn't make the right decision to save their life? What if I didn't take the right pathway? What if I— so it— and he's like, these things are coming at you a million miles an hour and you're trying to make the best decision with the information you've got in front of you. And it is hectic and it is scary and it is stressful. And I love it, but I can't face the liability of it anymore. That's why my, my malpractice insurance is so expensive. Yeah, and, and so I, I think we got to be careful about weighting ourselves in the same way we do doctors and lawyers because the consequence is different. Does that make sense?

Oh, it's, it's hugely different. And again, it— you know, not to use the same old analogy, there's only two models, right? There's— because that's, you know, not necessarily politically correct to say anymore, but the reality is, is that's the case. And it frustrates me when, you know, we talk about Oh, you know, you hear the conversations and my tech, you know, completely crapped the bed on this and, and, you know, went down. I could— I still— I couldn't tell you after yesterday what I went through on that. And it's not like I didn't spend a day, but I spent a morning, right? And it was a time suck and it was a time waster. I can't look back and go, this would have been the right time to stop and, and, and, and back up and look for another service information. I just saw it through, you know, and Like, for everybody listening, here's the— here's what Jeff did. Jeff went to Google, and there's a YouTube video that shows the exact symptom and the exact fix.

And everybody going, well, yeah, Jeff's not that smart, that's why, uh, you know, it's right there.

YouTube certified, baby!

That's right. And, you know, or Scotty Kilmer next. We don't have identifix, people. Like, I can fix cars without— I know you're saying no way he can, but the reality was, is there was no point. So when, when people are talking about, I don't want my tech technicians looking on Google, and I don't want my technicians surfing the internet for a fix.

Stupid. I, I, dude, I pulled data from anywhere I can get data from, and it's my job to peruse that data and to filter that data and understand, is it right or is it wrong? That's my job.

You and I wouldn't be sitting here if we weren't the type to be constantly reaching out for more knowledge to more people.

Yeah, for sure.

Would have never— this wouldn't be happening. Right?

So absolutely not.

When people sit there and go, oh, like, the process to me, that's why

it's so much effing noise, Jeff. It's just noise.

I know.

And, and I, I, like, I think we've talked a lot about, like, how I'm concerned a little bit about the rage bait, right? And it bothers me. It eats me up. Not, not because— not because it gets views, not because it's popular. It's because, like, I came into this wanting to try and like do something, right, to help our industry, right, right? Like I wanted to help technicians feel like they meant something and they mattered and they were important. I wanted to like help owners see that technicians weren't always the bad guy, and I wanted technicians to see that owners weren't always the bad guy. And if we could just have conversations and, and communicate a little bit, that we might be able to make things better. And, and listen, I don't expect to change the world. I'm not saying that.

I'm just saying, like, if I can help my friends in my little circle make their life better, I, I feel like I've succeeded, right? Like, that, that's all— that, that was the only purpose of all of this. I wanted to help people get better.

You've had people come to you and say, you know, I was ready to cash it all in, I was ready to give up, I was ready, you know, as somebody's done for you. And I've shown you— you see the messages that come to me almost daily. From technicians. So it's like, we're not trying to put up rage bait, but we are trying to drive conversation.

And, you know, correct, correct. But here's, here's where I'm at, right? I, I guess where I'm going with all this is that I worry that the rage bait— I worry that the things that we're saying— like, I made that stupid post about the compression fitting. Okay, I'm sorry, I, I would not on my wife's car put a compression fitting on a brake line. Wouldn't do it. Yeah, okay, my car, sure, I don't care. Like, I drive junk because I know how to get it off the side of the road, okay? But, but my point is, is that so much of what happens in the groups and so much of what happens in these conversations when we get talking about what you're talking about right now and we're having complex conversations about, Mr. Shop Owner, I went down the wrong path, I'm really sorry, this was frustrating, I, I just missed it. Mr.

Shop Owner shouldn't freak out, okay? And when Mr., when Mr. Technician goes to Mr. Shop Owner or, or whatever it may be, service advisor, and says, hey, listen, I need more time on this. Mr. Shop owner shouldn't freak out, right? Vice versa, Mr. Technician shouldn't freak out because whatever's happening here, right, like, I didn't get the hours I wanted, I didn't get this, I didn't get that— fine, have a conversation about it. On the other side, Mr. Shop owner, I screwed up.

Hey, dude, We're human beings, we all screw up. And you add this internet component to it and everybody shops all of a sudden perfect. Everybody's shop doesn't have any issues whatsoever.

None.

Everybody's shop is just— you, you don't understand, my way is the right way to do it. Now I used to do that because I genuinely believed, like, I was seeing what people were saying and I was pretty hard-headed about it. But I look back now and I recognize like, hey, there's more than one way to skin a cat. But I've, I've paid the consequences of some of the mistakes these people are making, and I, I don't want them to make the same mistake, you know?

No. And I used to, you know, think that I never had a comeback because, you know, I never saw it again. Yeah. The reality is, is like, you talk to more and more people and you realize just because you didn't— Brian Pollack reminds me that all the time. Yeah. Just because the shop that worked on it last doesn't see it back doesn't mean you fixed a friggin' car. It just means that they had very little faith in you before and they're just rolling the dice on another one, right? And it's the same, uh, it's the same principle in so many things in life, is that we're not, you know, we're not given a second chance to go to the plate and try and hit it again. You know, you just— you walk back and you think, hey, you know, that's it.

I like the idea that, you know, when we talk with— and we have these open conversations And you know where I've struggled, I've struggled for years, right? Like, it's really hard for me to go and explain myself and justify and defend to somebody that I know couldn't put on my boots and do, you know, to get to the bottom of it any faster, if at all, when I did. It was really hard for them to always judge me. And I've realized that that now is, is got— it's secondary to what the real problem is. And that is just that it's, you know, we have to have a component of time to this. We have to have a component of efficiency to this. And it frustrates me because to me, there is no real time. It's just whatever the time took is what it took. And I understand when somebody's sharing a frustration and they go, hey, this took too long.

They're not saying you suck because it took too long. They're simply sharing with you that it took too long and it's more than I can charge for.

Yeah. Here, here. What about— what, what is the number one thing I've said to you over the years? What's the thing I tell you to do when you read a post?

Yeah. Seek first to understand, right?

Yeah. And that, that's my whole mission. For these shop owners and for these technicians and for these service advisors. Like, don't blow up. Don't have an emotional response. There's no room for emotion in business, okay?

None.

I, I made that video the other day about starting a shop and like how bad I wanted to buy that one shop, and like the story behind it was is that, that I was committed to doing it and Rick and Alex and everybody else said, don't you dare, this is a bad idea. Well, I was going to go behind their back and I was going to sign the paperwork on it. I showed up and I was standing there and I was getting ready to sign the paperwork, and this man walked in. The guy who's selling me the shops, got this weird look on his face. And this other man walks in, he says, what's going on? He said, you know what I mean? I'm like, that's weird. And he said, this man's actually going to be buying the building. And he said, oh, that's awesome. He said, I'm glad I'm here.

I wanted to talk to you about, you know, how to manage the septic system, because the septic system's on my property And I, I don't have anywhere— I'm gonna put a building there, I don't have anywhere for you to put it, so I was just wondering where you're gonna put it. Now knowing enough about construction, I know there's nowhere to put a septic system. And so I was so emotionally driven to make a decision that I wasn't looking at the facts, I wasn't looking at the data, I wasn't considering all the other things.

Yeah.

And so we get super emotional about things and we make bad decisions. We run off at the mouth and we say things we don't mean and we we act in a certain way and it causes pain to other human beings, right? Like, I know that we love to think technicians are big and gruff and they're tough and all this stuff, but they, they're human beings too. They have emotions and things hurt their feelings, right?

There's some of the most— I don't, I don't say that disrespectfully, but there's some of the most— like, every day they do some mirror time to make sure that they can get through the day as well.

Absolutely.

That's it.

Because absolutely, I've dealt with a lot of them that are hurting.

I know I have to do it, right? I know I have to give that pep talk to myself pretty frequently. Uh, I talk to a lot of them that when they are not given the pep talk anymore, they're reaching out to me. And then I have to do it, and I, I'm not complaining about that, but it's— we're not like— and I said this conversation today, I said, here's the thing, we're not stress fixing the vehicle. You know what it is? The vehicle is just what it is. It's the, it's the human dynamic attached to the vehicle that stresses so many mechanics and so many people in this industry out, and how we do it. You come back to the emotion thing, like, how many— long for years have you known me and I've said it's just business, and everybody looks at them and goes, that Compton's a cold, you know, SOB. It's just business. I have been, for whatever reason, able to remove the emotion from it and go, I'm sorry that it's $1,000.

Absolutely. And listen, the price is the price is the price, because this is what we have to charge. But you know what is not just business is the interaction between other human beings that you deal with on a daily basis.

Yes.

One, one of the most powerful things that has ever been said to me was Rick White said, you need to understand the difference between sympathy and empathy, because you, you can understand what that person's going through without putting yourself in their shoes. And you need to understand, by showing them sympathy in the way that you are, you are putting yourself in their shoes because you're not going to have money either. And stop putting yourself in their shoes. Instead, what I need you to do is show them empathy, understand what they're going through, but don't put yourself in their shoes.

Yeah, and I, I have been— more than once I've come to you and I said, hey, Brother, is that the right choice for you to make here? You know, in your own business, right? Is that the right thing to do? Because we have been, you know, through this with this person or gone down this road with that.

And I share— I share everything that happens with you. Yeah, right. Like, we, we discuss every little nook and cranny of what's going on and everything else. Yeah.

And it's not to say that, like, I don't love your team, and, you know, your team probably thinks pretty highly of me, I hope.

Yeah, especially Eric. He— whoo, buddy. We shouldn't talk about that. I know, I mean, listen, the fact that you guys share a room at every event we go to, that's y'all's business, okay? I'm just saying, I love you both.

I don't know how he keeps getting the keys because I go to the— I go to the desk and go,

this guy— well, he is the one who books all the rooms, so I guess maybe, maybe I should change that.

I've stopped checking the closet, so— but it's one of those things where You know, you and I share so much because it's just— yeah, I need that perspective from you.

Yep. And I need it.

And, and, and that's what makes it so powerful. And I— when I think about you and I, I think I wish there were so many other people that could work with somebody and, and have that same level. And I don't know, you know, like I joke with you, right? If I ever show up, I'm just— George is going to get a promotion, I'll wash the cars.

I'm just getting you a rocking chair, you know. Look, and, and look, I'm getting one of those highboy rocking chairs so you ain't got to raise your shoulders too.

Oh man, it was bad yesterday. I tell you, I was hurting. But, and so it, it's just that way. I have to learn to become accepting of the fact that I'm not who I was and, and what I could use to be able to do, right? Yeah. And then I understand that that, that changes my value for some other people. And as much as I don't want to accept that, right, because, you know, for me, I thought by 50 I would be the smartest guy in my community and, you know, I wouldn't have to touch this and do that. It doesn't— life doesn't work out that way. It's not because the opportunities have not been there, right?

It's just because I— we don't have control over that. Right. And, and I'm gonna be honest with you, I think that we, we build this path in front of us and we think that this is how life's gonna go. What's that old— what's that old adage say? You wanna, you wanna hear God laugh, tell him your plans. Yeah. Um, I, you, you know, I, I always wanted to be the best technician I could be, and then I wanted to be the best shop owner that I could be. Uh, when I was young, my uncle always used to tell me— he was a truck driver and always loved really nice, really fast trucks. And he said, listen, honey, there's always going to be somebody a little bit faster, a little bit, a little bit prettier, a little more chrome, a little bit, you know, always going to be somebody better.

You're never going to get to the best when— because the minute you get to the best, somebody else is the best. Um, you know, I was in the diesel performance world, and so there was that whole horsepower race, and people are spending hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to beat somebody else. And at some point it becomes like What's the logic behind winning, right? And, and like, so to tie it back to what you're saying, like, we, we go into this and it's like, I want to be the best technician, I want to be the best shop, I want to be the best and do this and do this and do this, and I have this idea of where my life's going. It doesn't work that way, right? And, and the way that we can have a meaningful and purposeful life is by helping others have their best possible life. Yeah, right. If we can lift other human beings up and even if it's just a kind word, I'm like, hey man, I know this sucks, but you're doing all right. You're doing good. It's going to be fine.

You're going to be— and listen, I'm going to tell you something. Every one of these challenges in each one of our lives, I mean, you know, and I'm not— I'm not saying there aren't people that have had a worse situation. Last 2 years have been hell. Yeah. Okay. And, and I'm gonna tell you right now, like, 5 years ago, I would have said I, I couldn't. If you had told me what I'd have been through the last 2 years, I would have said I'd off myself, dude. I can't do that.

I'm not pos— I'm not capable of that. And yet here I am, and I made it through it, and I'm making it through it, and I'm figuring it out, and I'm putting the pieces together, and I'm picking up the mess, and I'm making all the things come back together the best I can.

Because see, here's the thing, right? And, and again, it's going to sound like we— you know, people sometimes dwell too much on the money, and I know in our circle we get— it's beyond that. We, you know, it's not— but when you're still standing, your family hasn't deserted you, right? Your team is still like— would, would take a bullet for you, any one of them, at any moment. So all these challenges, yeah, it sucks, it's terrible. But man, it doesn't, it doesn't take you from the path, you know.

It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't define us.

No, right?

Like, in each one of these people, every person that we talk to, Jeff, has got their own version of this, right? I, I, I really struggled for about 3 months because I ran the numbers right now. Now look, for those listening, I'm not talking about the shop, okay? I think the hardest part about what I've been through and, and like the things that happen is that I didn't have a choice. I wasn't given an option. It wasn't the mess that I made, right? Like when you're a kid and your mom tells you to clean up the mess and you're like, yeah, but I didn't do that. I hate to tell you, life will smack you in the face because sooner or later you're going to clean up a mess that you didn't make and you don't want to clean up, right?

And, and so the people are knocking on your door and ringing your phone, they don't care. —exactly— cause what's going on, still got

to be dealt with. They still got to be dealt with. Yeah. And so I sat down and ran the numbers, and like, you, you know the trajectory that I had. I was gonna try and figure out how to give the shop to the staff and let them figure things out and let them develop as leaders and, and them take it and run with it. And do we want multiple shops? Like, hey, let's make this y'all's and let's do this thing. I just want to be able to earn enough that I can live and not worried about the money, we'll just figure it out, right? Yeah, I just want enough that I can retire when I'm 65. Well, the math doesn't work now.

The math is that by the time I'm 81 years old, I'll have this mess cleaned up, right? And so it's like, dude, hold up now. Even if I get this right, and even if I work really hard to make this better, I might shave 10 years off of it. But it's 40 more years. Yeah, it's 40 years to clean this mess up. And so I, I like— I understand and I get it, and I see these people going through this stuff, and I see all these people who hurt, and I see all these people who are like, man, this career sucks, and like, I thought I would be somewhere by now. Honey, like, what you have to understand is that be somewhere is in here. It's, it's not in the checkbook. It's not where the money comes into the bank account, right? That, that's not— that's not where you're somewhere.

You're somewhere in here. Your purpose, your meaning, who you become, who you want to be, it's all in here. Has nothing to do with the career. If you depend on a career to make you happy, you're already unhappy. If you're depending on a job to be all of that for you, you're destined for disaster. Oh yeah, it's got to come from in here.

Yeah, and, and that's the thing. If I look back now, pre-podcast, and would have thought that I was ever gonna find my place, my spot in the world, my fulfillment through just the job— mm-hmm— it wasn't ever gonna happen. Because I would have— as the body starts to break, which is what it's doing now, I would have become even more frustrated with the fact that I couldn't go in and, and hit what I used to hit as a number or knock this kind of thing out or other situations. Now it's just like I'm cool as a cucumber most days when somebody, you know, drops the ball on something that affects the, the flow. I would have lost my tree. You know, I would have been over the moon. And now I'm just like,

oh well, what do you want me to do, right? I can't control it. And, and, you know, I, I think I recognized that at some point, right? There, there was a point where— not gonna lie, like, we're talking, and, and I had tried multiple times to reason with you, and I had said multiple times, Jeff, Bud, like, if it's not one thing, it's something else. Oh yeah. When, when are you going to decide that, like, hey, I'm going to be happy, right? And, and I think purpose and meaning is a big part of that. And I, I don't think that as grown men— like, the whole purpose and meaning thing is often seen as, like, new age mumbo jumbo, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. No, I, I think— I, I think Jordan Peterson's right when he talks about that human beings are aiming creatures. And if we don't have a destination, if we don't have somewhere that we're going, if we don't have something that we're looking towards, we, we get lost.

Yeah. And so we start finding all the little things that are wrong in our career and our job, and this person and that person, and this person didn't do this and that person didn't do that, and this is wrong and you're wrong and You're finding all of these reasons why it's not working, right? And, and at the end of the day, what we've got to remember as human beings is it doesn't matter what other people do because we can't control what other people do. At least if I'm depending on myself, at least if I'm saying I own this and I will deal with this and I'm not going to blame them, I'm going to blame me, because then I have control over it. If I want my life to be better, I have to make my life better. Does that mean get a new job? Does that mean learn a new skill? Does that mean find meaning and purpose in something else that's not work, and the, the work is only what feeds the meaning and purpose, the, the resources it needs? I don't know. Yeah, I— happiness comes from inside, and

you— happiness you don't buy. Happiness is not You know, who did I hear them say? And it was like, money's not everything, but money does allow, you know, some stress to be removed. But, you know, I talked about, you know, David especially, all these people that are multi, multi, multi, you know, billionaires, they still have all the same, you know, insecurities and, you know, what they're trying to overcompensate for.

Bigger problems to go with them and,

and more people attached to their problems. Yeah, that's the other thing, right? Like How many times have I said, do you look at that, that homeless person, and the only concern they have is for their dog? Yeah, right. So it's like they have this dog and their life is— when we look at it, is like, must be a mess. And yet they're grinning and smiling because they're not bogged down with what everyone

else— that might have been the fentanyl.

I'm just gonna be honest.

I'm— I— listen, As a, as a recovered addict, yeah, I just want to say that I am, I am okay to say that. I am not judging or anything like that.

But I mean, they live in that existence where it's like, in some ways there's a freedom there, because if like, if they go away or they change course, trajectory, or whatever, the— they're affecting the dog, their pet, if they even have one. Whereas we build up this wealth is all this world around us. Wealth is multiple shops. I want 17 shops. I wouldn't want one shop just for the stress load of how I would have to— every little decision could impact everybody else that I make. Our good friend, you know, has, has made some choices that had a big impact, right?

And, and he's not admitting it yet. He's getting there, he's getting there. He's not admitted it yet.

And we're not— I'm— listen, I'm not running them down, but I mean, like, of course not. No, I have so much respect for him because, like, he just carries on, you know, starts again, picks up.

Oh honey, do you understand? He doesn't have a choice, right? And, and listen, Alex and I talked about this last night. She said you put as much weight into your employees' beliefs feelings and emotions as you do into mine and yours. I'm like, yes, ma'am. She said, I have a problem with that. And I said, why? She said, sweetheart, she said, if it all blows up tomorrow, they'll go get another job, me and you can't. Yeah, right. And I, I don't think many technicians understand that, and I don't think many, uh, service advisors understand that. If I blow this up I blew my life up, right? They didn't.

If this doesn't work out, they can walk away. And you know what? I signed up for that.

Yep.

That's what I signed up for. But, but quitting is not an option for me.

No.

And it's the same for him. Quitting is not an option. And I would love to say that for the majority of people, quitting isn't an option. I would love to say to the technicians, Hey, listen, you're, you're 20 years into this career. Don't stop now. There, there's hope on the horizon. And for a lot of them, there is. But they have that option, okay? And I think it's important to recognize that option.

I think it's important to recognize if you're unhappy in this trade, if you're bitter at this trade, go find peace and happiness. Yeah, you know, I've, I've watched a lot of my friends in very toxic relationships, and I've said over and over again, you don't understand how happy you could be if you just walk away from this. And I'm not trying to tell you to leave your spouse or anything like that, but I am saying that if there is toxicity existing in your world— and, and sometimes it's just the component of the two things mixed together, right? If that toxicity exists and you can't figure out how to work through that toxicity, it's time to get rid of the toxicity. Yeah, because you, you're going to have a hard time being happy if you don't.

You can't just say, well, I pick my battles, right? Yeah, we don't pick our battles. Our battles come to us whether we choose them or not. It's not about that. You can't pick them. So, but you can choose sometimes to step off of the battlefield and say, I'm— I've got no horse in this race anymore. And, you know, you get on me sometimes because I'm quick to judge when I, when I see a technician and, you know, they're, they're going through something at the shop or the shop is— and I tell them, jump, right? And you go, you don't know the whole situation. And you're not wrong, I don't. But I can't say that for the next 5 years I'm necessarily going to have that same advice.

But I just know that right now with the shortage, yeah, they also don't have that window to sit on, you know what I mean, Lucas, for a year.

And for sure, I, I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you. Yeah, but here's the thing, I'm not saying that for the shop's benefit.

No, I understand.

I'm saying that for the technician's benefit. Yeah. And I'm saying that because if we don't understand what their scenario is, we tell them to jump and they, they might have had a sweet gig where they were at.

Yeah.

And if we don't coach them through that and help them understand, hey, this is actually a really good deal, but you've gotten a little bitter, you've gotten a little upset, you've got a little disgruntled. We need to, we need to get back to ground zero. We need to navigate this. We need to talk to the shop owner. You and I have been talking about a situation like that here recently. Mm-hmm. And, and it's a situation where there's a lot of emotion involved and a lot of things happening, but, but The shop owner is doing everything they possibly can to make this as good as they can possibly make it.

Yeah.

To try and help. And because of the underlying circumstance, telling that person to jump in that situation is going to cause that person harm. Yeah. Right. I, I listen, I think that with the platform you've grown and we've worked really hard to get it there, and I am so effing proud of you. You don't even know how proud of you I am. I, I look at it in the mornings through the 2,050 messages that came to my phone last night, and I'm like, man, I'm so proud of him, how much he's grown, how much he's developed, right? I'm just going to tell you that with that comes great responsibility. What, what is it that they tell doctors? Do no harm.

Yeah, we have a responsibility to not do harm. And so when we give advice, these people are coming to you because they could be in the worst moment of their lives, and I do not take that lightly. Yeah, when the technicians reach out or when the owners reach out and say— I, I had this conversation with a gentleman the other day. I'm gonna tell you a story. He sends me a message and it had gone to my spam folder and I hadn't answered, and so I send him a message back. He said, man, I still really need to talk to you, it's very urgent. I've got a flight on Friday. I'm going to go fire this technician because he's become toxic and he's destroying my culture.

And I said, okay, well, let's talk about it. He begins to tell me the story of what happened. I don't want to go too far in detail because he'll— it could get out, like, what we're talking about, who we're talking about. Long story short, this technician had been his right-hand person and he had to step out of the shop for a while. And the technician is now running the shop. Now he's running remotely and he's doing what he can to help, but the technician's running the shop. And I said, okay, did he get a pay increase? Well, he did a little bit, but then we also did a commission thing. Okay, is he the leader of the other people in the shop? Mm-hmm.

Okay, has he been trained on how to lead people? Okay, do you have a handbook? Mm-hmm. Do you have processes, policies, and procedures? Mm-hmm. Okay. Do you— have we talked about what's expected? No, no, no, no. I do all that from here and I tell him what to work on and how to work on it and when to work on it. Oh, okay. What if, what if the roles were reversed? How would you feel about that? Oh yeah, I, I don't know, man, that wouldn't— I could see how that could be a problem. Okay, and now he's upset at another employee and he's being disrespectful to the other employee, is that right? Yes.

Okay, does he have leadership authority over the other employee? Well, he's supposed to come to me and tell me if there's a problem. Okay. Do we have like a basis of communication which says he needs to come to you and say these words for you to understand there's a problem? Or does he just say, hey, oh, Bob's doing this and blah, blah, blah? He's— well, we, we haven't really secured any clear lines of communication like that. There's no corrective action plan or anything like that. Hmm, okay. And I said, so when did he get so upset? And he said, well, I was You know, he had been on this car for like 4 days, and man, I, I got a little frustrated, so I was walking the new guy through it because I didn't think his testing was right. Hold up, wait just a minute here. I think I'm getting to the bottom of this.

And I said, here's what I want you to do. I want you to set up a meeting with him, and I want you to call him and say, hey, I realize that maybe I've not exactly executed this in the best way, but I'm hearing that we've got some frustrations and some things are going on. Help me understand what's What's going on? Yeah. And he called me back and he said, dude, I am so glad I talked to you first. And I said, why? He said, I was getting ready to get on the airplane and go up there and fire him. He said, after I talked to him, I figured out that the other technician is going behind his back and coming to me and telling me things that aren't true and spinning things up. And he's been trying to tell me without just throwing this other guy under the bus, but he's taking all the workload on himself just trying to keep things moving. And he's getting disgruntled because he doesn't feel like he's being taken care of.

He doesn't feel like he's being heard. Yeah. And I said, right, because you never set up a communication protocol. You never set up systems for how this was going to work and how he was to handle things. You never taught him those things. And he said, right, but I just thought like he would know. No, we're— dude, we're human beings. We have to set expectations.

We have to build systems around this so we know what to do when we're supposed to do it. Now look, what would have happened if I just told him, yeah, he's toxic, man, based on what you tell me, he's toxic, right? We would have— we would have damaged the business, right? Because he would have fired the guy that's making everything happen, and so the production would stop. He'd have to go back into the shop, figure out how to fix it, would have eventually found out the other dude was the problem. The other guy would be disgruntled, hate his guts, and burn a bridge, and going around town talking about him.

Yeah.

Would have kept him up at night because he realized he did the wrong thing. So every time we talk to somebody who's going through something, I think it has a lot of weight to it. I think it has a lot of importance to it. Now I know a lot of listeners are— man, it was just stupid, just— right? Like, I get it, I really do. But, but when you begin to have deep conversations where you're seeking to understand what the other person in the room with you or on the telephone with you is going through You understand that we all deal with very similar sets of scenarios in our lives. They're not exactly the same. They're not exactly what somebody else is going through, but because they are so similar, we can relate to what they're going through. Yeah.

And, and it's catching the people at the right time, you know what I mean? It's a timing thing because we— they have to be willing to, you know, because you, you've heard me, sometimes I don't want to listen, I just want to vent. Yeah, yeah, for sure, right?

I, I'm really— well, and we have that awesome relationship where we can do that, right? Like, we know we're safe with each other doing that.

And you know, sometimes it's just like, you let me go and you let me go and you let me go, and then you're like, okay dude, hope your Saturday goes better. And, and then by Monday I'm, I'm good again. But it's catching those people that we don't know at the right time and then being able to pull them in and go, whoa, stop. What you're doing right now and listen. And that's where I've become so much better at doing it in terms of getting them to see.

Yes, absolutely. You have— I, I'm— dude, the way you've developed as a communicator is so impressive. I mean, it's like, because we, we talked about that, it's like, hey, work on the interview skills, and here's, here's some tools and some tips and some tricks, and here's how we can work on this, and here's how we can work on that. Here's what we do, and here's how we do this. And hey, try this, no, try that. Does this work for you? Does that work for you? Right. Remember when we were going through that and we were watching videos and I was talking about interview styles and we were going through all this stuff, right? And what I think what that's taught you, though, is you've gotten really good at asking questions, right? I am not afraid to say as a grown man that I went to therapy, right? I made a lot of really bad decisions when I was younger and did some really stupid stuff. And it led me to a place that my mind was not functioning like it was supposed to.

And, and I think a lot of people go through that. Um, I, I know— I don't know the exact numbers. I know that we had 7 people in the last, I guess it's year and a half now, in Changing the Industry that committed suicide. Um, that's a big deal to me, right? Like, I don't like that. I, I understand there's people going through things that I can't understand, I can't control, and I can't do anything about. But I understand that that's something that men go through, and I understand that a lot of men don't want to go get help and don't want to talk to somebody. I'm going to tell you that it was one of the best things I ever did in my life, okay? And I'm going to tell you that what was most interesting about all of that, uh, and, and maybe we get Margaret Hawkins' wife on the show at some point. My therapist, do you know what he did? He sat across from me and asked questions.

How does it— how does that make you feel? Is that rational? Is that a reasonable way to think about that? What, what if, what if that's not what they meant when they said that? Well, shit, I don't want to think about that, you know.

And you know my, my story with what I went through with my brother. Not that I went with him, but I watched, right, how it has turned his life around in the sense that he has been able to— the kind of stuff that he's got to deal with now, if he hadn't had that— and again, the, the before the attack and all that kind of stuff, he was already in therapy for other things.

So I was worried about him. Yeah, I was absolutely worried about him. I mean, I feel like he's my brother too, right? Like, I don't ever talk to him, but I mean, I feel like he's part of my family.

Yeah, and if he hadn't had that before the attack would have had— had happened, he wouldn't have made it through. Like, we, we would be talking about him in the, in the post because he'd be stoned, you know. He would be. And, and that's crazy to me. So, and I say to you all the time, man, this, this podcast is my therapy. I don't have to go, but I don't— I, I don't go to a therapist because there's so much what I'm able to share with you share with my guests, that it just keeps me talking. It keeps me— perspectives coming in, perspectives going out, opinions, all that kind of stuff happens as of that. If I didn't, oh my God, man, I'd for sure be sitting in a chair across from somebody.

Here's the thing, is that, you know, I think social media has broken us because I think that it creates this environment where we can just say whatever we want to whoever we want it's somewhat anonymous. Like, they may know who we are, but it's anonymous, so we can, we can really be the worst version of ourselves and pay none of the consequences for it, right? You talk all the time about how I'd bust him in his mouth, right? And, and like, it allows us to be as terrible as we want to be to another human being, and we think that that doesn't impact people, but it does. Yeah, right. What we say impacts other people. And I think that it removes the interest in asking the question, right? You know, I talk about Jordan Peterson a lot, and I love the very, very early Jordan Peterson before he got into all the political stuff and everything else, right? The original videos where he's teaching. And somebody in a class one time asked him, said, "Jordan, why do you—" pauses, because he would stop— somebody would ask him a question, and you've seen the videos where he does— he's like, he's just silent 30, 45 seconds, to the point that it's awkward. And they said, why do you do that? And he said, because I was thinking about what I was gonna say.

Yeah.

Oh shit, we're supposed to do that? I was just gonna blather out how I felt at that exact second. Wasn't gonna dig into how I really felt about it.

What I always loved about him is you could see him in the classroom back then, and you knew that he was coming out at the end of the class absolutely spent, but he also came out like, has learned as much as he had poured out. He had received that back from them.

Yeah.

And that's what that pause is about, is because it's not just how do I get my thoughts right, it's he's really, really, really listening.

Exactly.

You know, and that's what— man, I'm so glad I've gotten better at doing it, right? And I— hats off to you for that, because it's just— I didn't— it wasn't even something I thought about. No, I just need to get my words out, you know? I don't need to hear what's coming back. Like, I read it, but I didn't hear it.

Yep.

And that's why I'm always— because we're fixers, I'm always— the, the why is fascinating to me.

Why is this? Very much so.

Why are they broken? Yeah, if you want to use that term broken, why are they broken? What makes that guy act like that where he just gets on YouTube and rants?

And, and exactly, dude, I'm telling you. And I, I do, I get, I get pushy on them. Like, if they, if they just— like this whole brake line thing, I've enjoyed getting on there and just like, right? Like, I'm not gonna lie, I enjoy that. I do enjoy that a little bit. Um, conversation— I don't enjoy it nearly as much as you did for messaging all those people. 250 messages.

Oh my God, I was just like, no.

I'm like, why are these people getting so effing mad at Jeff?

I gotta tell you, part of me is here in the cash register. Ding, ding, ding, ding. And that's what I'm thinking. And you're like, whoa boy, that's not how that's working. I'm like, oh. And again, it's, it's a change that Meta made. I don't know why.

That was the stupidest thing ever. It drives me nuts.

What in— and I'm going back forth now this morning, I'm clearing them out going, okay, because some people are actually with legit messages. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go back because I don't want to miss them when they talk about let's talk in an interview, let's do an episode. Yeah, I don't want them to go to the bottom of the queue and me completely forget about them because you know how it is. People are messaging on 3, 4 to 5 different formats trying to keep it all straight. You're better at it than me. I'm not anywhere close.

I've lost it. I can't keep up anymore. I get so many messages and they get— they keep going to the spam folder and they'll be in there for months. I don't see them. I don't think to check it and I feel terrible and I try to message everybody back, but I'm not doing a very good job.

And like that, I tell everybody, if you message Jaded on Instagram, I don't get it. Like Braxton gets, gets it right.

I get it too. But like, I didn't realize you weren't getting it, so I didn't think anything about needing to answer it.

And it's so— like, anybody, I apologize if you reach out to me Instagram, don't, don't do it. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not getting it. Go get on me on Messenger or whatever. But it, it has been so— going back to the, to the perspective thing and the Jordan Peterson, like, yeah, I watch him and I watch some of the other people that you shared with me, and it's like there's still so much growth that I have ahead of me.

But we all do, right? Like, is it— man, isn't that an effing blessing?

It's inspiring as hell is what it is.

Yeah, absolutely. Like, hey man, you know, and there's a lot of different ways that it's taken, but at the end of the Bible— not at the end of the Bible, but the end of, uh, I think it's, um, the book of Paul in the Bible. And, and I'm not a religious guy, so I'll tell you how I took it. The Apostle Paul was supposedly the greatest apostle and was, was so, you know, well revered and, and was Jesus's right-hand man and all this stuff. But at the end of his book, he said, I've not yet arrived. Yeah, it's like, I don't think I'm gonna get there if I can't achieve what he's— you know what I mean? And like, that, that's the, the meaning of life is the journey of life.

Yeah, it's not the destination. There is no destination, right?

But see, that's what technicians are doing, Jeff. They're getting it in their head that they're getting some destination, they're going somewhere, this is what I'm going to accomplish. And for many of them, it's like, hey, I want to get enough money to retire. I hate to tell you something, something. If you're in the States or Canada, the system is rigged. You're going to have to work really hard to get enough money to retire. And you want to know how you get enough money to retire? You start when you're 17, 18, 19 years old. You open a 401(k) and IRA, or, you know, if you work for a business, a 401(k).

If you, if you're, if you're on your own, you start a simple IRA and you start putting money back. That, that's how you get there. And that's how all these other people do. They get smart about tax-advantaged accounts, things like HSA accounts, things like brokerage accounts. They invest, they don't spend money they don't have, they save as much as they can save, they put as much money back as they can. That, that is the pathway. Now I'm gonna tell you something, I mentioned this in a podcast we recorded earlier, um, with, uh, Josh that's doing the training in, in, um, the Changing the Industry group.

Yeah, leadership.

I sat in a, um, I sat in a court case one time. I was on jury duty, and the judge looks at a business owner and he says, listen, ignorance is no excuse. It's not a defense in the eyes of the law. It doesn't matter that you don't know. It doesn't matter. You can't wave away your professional duty. I'm sorry, honey, but the deal is it's your responsibility to take care of yourself. Yeah, it's your responsibility to learn about your financials.

It's your responsibility to save the money. And I think that we have raised multiple generations now of human beings that are trapped in the machine and will spend in— their eternity working their fingers to the bone because nobody ever showed them how to save money. Yeah, nobody ever showed them how to use the market to make money. You know, if you take— and I'm just going to throw like random numbers out there, let's just Google search it, okay? Let's Google search this. So let's say I want to save 100 a week and put it into a retirement account with,

um, let's do

8% return, and I'm 19 years old. I plan to save 100 a week until I'm 50. How much money will I have when I'm 50, and then when I'm 65. Okay, let's just see what we come up— okay, by saving $100 a week, $5,200 per year, starting at age 19 with a, uh, an 8% average annual return, your retirement account will grow significantly due to compound interest. At age 50, 31 years of contributions, you will have contributed $161,200. Your estimated balance will be $695,500. At the age of 65— now, no, you stopped saving at 50, okay? Assuming you stop adding the $100 per week at age 50, but allowing the existing $695,500 to grow at 8% for another 15 years until you reach age 65. Are you ready for this? I want you to hear this number, Jeff.

Are you ready? Yeah. Your estimated balance: $2,206,100. Okay, now you're telling me that every technician listening to this effin' show can't save $100 a week. You're telling me that? You tell me they can't utilize something like this? They can't take their finances into their own hands? They can't stop spending that extra few dollars on the Snap-on truck to buy

socks, pocket knife that we lose, yeah, sunglasses that we sit on?

Exactly. You're telling me you can't put $100— okay, fine. Like maybe the interest is lower, maybe, maybe you don't put as much in. Would $2 million make a difference for you at age 65?

Oh, it can't even— can't even imagine.

Would it, would it make a difference when you're 50 and your body's starting to fail? Yeah. Would it give you a different feeling about the security you have in your future? Now look, it does— you don't have to— you, you don't say because I'm 19 Um, or I'm 40 because I've waited too long to start. No, start now. Put more back, put whatever you can back because it still works. But see, nobody ever taught them that in school. They didn't want to listen if they did.

And you and I have talked about, and you've seen me post several different times about how when we, when we talk about technicians going to training, you know, and I, I said for years, like, if I could teach one class or one course, it would be how to survive this. Right? How to survive this industry as a young person when you're going into it. And that's something that I would definitely have wanted to add into the curriculum if I could be so lucky as to draft one up, is to say, this is how you get out at 55, not 65, because I've never— I've never met a technician that was over 60, right? The guy across the bay from me is 59 years old now. He's now down to 4 days a week because his blood pressure is so high. Yeah, you know, that he has to take Friday's off, and I'm good with it. It doesn't— that's the beauty of it. It's not like all of a sudden when he's gone my workload goes up.

It's just same thing.

Yeah, but like, I know that he financially is not in as good a place as I am, and 9 years my senior, and I'm sitting here going, well, it's not going to be as bad for me. Imagine the fear that he must now have that all of a sudden he's a 4-day week at 59 years old. He's got 6 years left, hypothetically, before he should retire in this country, that he can apply at least and qualify for some of his government-funded pension. Like, I am so blessed that I don't even have to— I'm not thinking about that yet. But if I start to look at the reality of this, I would be very resentful

of the fact that somebody a long time ago didn't, in my classes that all I had to take for this, say, okay, so here's volt drop and here's, you know, fuel trims, all this kind of stuff, but here's how that money that you're making on flat rate Yeah, when it's good, what you do with it. Nobody talks about that. Exactly. And, and look, I'm going to tell you, Eric at, um, at Kaizen— I'm going to start using them to do my accounting, and we're working on a show with them right now, and we're going to start doing some tips and things like that. And he was telling me, he's like, look, you got to be doing HSA for your people, health savings account. I'm like, okay, why? He's like, look, man, he's like that the, the technicians and the people don't understand that you're paying 7% and they're paying 7%. So they only see the 7% they're paying. They don't see that you're paying 7% too.

And he said, so if we use tax-advantaged accounts, they put that money in the HSA. It's not taxed by— for you. So you're not paying the 7%. They're not paying the 7%, 7.5, whatever it is. And, and so now they keep the medical records and they keep all their medical bills and they can use that money for lots of other things. And on top of that, they put that money in there, they pay out of the bank account, and they can reimburse themselves at any point in time. So they can leave that money in there and it's tax-free when they take it out. That money can sit in there and grow for years and the gains are tax-free.

And so now later on in life when you really need the money, you can take the money out and you have all this money. You've got these receipts you turn in, so you know, now you get the money back. And I'm like, well, how much of

a savings in that— is that? And he's like, it's 45%.

this country that he can apply at

least and qualify for some of his government funded pension. Like I am so blessed that I

don't even have to.

I'm not thinking about that yet. But if I start to look at

the reality of this, I would be very resentful of fact that somebody a long time ago didn't in my classes

at all I had to take for this say okay, so here's volt drop and here's you know, fuel trims and all this kind of stuff. But here's how that money that you're making on flat rate. Well, let's be honest, when I was a technician, man, I, I was, I was rough and brash and stupid. And I don't mean like stupid, like, you know what I mean? Like, I thought I was hot shit. I thought I was full of piss and vinegar. I just thought I had it all figured out. And I thought that— oh buddy, time will humble you, right? Like, time will absolutely humble you. I was, um, I was doing that diag on that truck yesterday..

And, um, Deckard's laughing at me because like I go to get up on the front of the truck and I'm— I put my foot in one of the snowplow brackets and I grab the grill and the grill is wrapped onto the front of the truck with a piece of wire. Plastic pops off of it and I almost fall off the top of the liner, you know, and it's like way off the ground. I'm like, uh, hang on, I threw back out and my hips twisted. I gotta get straight back out. He's like, what? I was like, dude, I've been rough on my body all these years. I'm like, I gotta go lay down for a minute, give me a second, you know, man. It humbles you. Well, and that's— and that's it.

And I, I know, like, I, I think about your dad, right? Like, he's not retired, you know what I mean? He was out here in trako and all this snow and everything else, pushing snow through the parking lot. And, and I know that that's gonna be like probably my destination. That's gonna be something I will be, 'cause it was my grandfather's, like he was always still busy and still, you know. I've gotta get a lot smarter with my money right now if I wanna have, 'cause I'm not gonna call it that freedom, but if I can have that security where it's like I can back down on what I'm earning and still be okay, that's it. Too many of us are sitting there, I was joking with my mom and it's like, well, here's what's gonna happen. My, my brother and you are going to move into my place. And then I said, I'm going to let you guys fight with each other, and I'm going to get a little teardrop trailer. I'm going to put it on the back of the Jeep, then I'm just going to head to— you know, when the first flurry hits, I'm heading to Texas, and I'm going to stop in Texas, and I'm going to hang out with John Firms for a week and, and, you know, drive him crazy.

And then I'm going to start working north and crisscross, and I'll come back up here about, you know, June. And that'll be yearly. And you'll see me and, you know, like, I'll, I'll livestream with you and all that kind of stuff. But I mean, like, I'm not gonna be around. Yeah, man. Well, and I mean, but like, seriously, think about some of this. I had a client that came in the other day, and, and one of the things that the staff brought up was they said, hey, you know, you're, you're talking to us about finances. And I— listen, I'm not like some super smart guy about finances.

I just watch a lot of YouTube videos about it because I understand I'm late the game. Yeah. And, and they said, you talk to us about money all the time and finances. Like, how is it that some of these people come in here— like, right now we probably couldn't afford some of the repairs that we're doing— how is it some of these 60 and 70-year-old people who are retired are coming in here and doing this? And so one walked in and I was talking to him and I said, tell him. He said, what are you talking about? So tell him how much money you got. He said, oh, he said, I worked for a company for years. He said, they just put my money in a 401(k). And he said, the accountant there told me, put as much money as you can, live as light as you can right now.

Said, just, just cut back. And he said, why would I want to do that? I want to live now. He said, understand. He said, you'll thank me later. He said, never would give me an answer.

He said, so I put in 15%

of everything I made.

They matched it 3%. And he said, I've got $7.86 million sitting in a 401(k), right? And he said, I make— he said, I've moved it over into dividends. And he said, I just take the dividend check. And he said, it's enough for me to live on. He said, I'll just distribute it to my kids later when I die. It just splits up, goes to them, and it just starts sending them dividend checks. And, you know, I thought about that and I'm like, well, shit, I can't really afford some of the stuff we do either. But I'm, I'm being extremely aggressive right now.

I'm extremely aggressive right now about how much money I put back. I'm trying to put back every dime I can get. And I can't think that gentleman for one second looks back and, and has any regrets about anything he went without, you know what I mean? For sure, because it's all just stuff. Yeah, it's, you know, that it is tough. I want you to think about what David said the other day. Remember, remember our conversation the other day? I told you what David said. David said, you tell Jeff that I said to not act like any of

that money's there, to act like anything from the podcast is not there. Do not touch it. Do not act like you have it. Do not act like anything. Now your first thought is, is, uh, he's trying to tell me what to do with my money. But then you realize, holy shit, if I just sit on that and it were to be somewhere making interest and I'm not touching it My life is substantially better in 10 years. And I, I'm gonna tell you, I have gotten really good at leaving my arrogance at the door because I know I'm a fucking idiot. Okay, well, I was thinking about that this morning because as much as like I've always had the respect for you that I've had since day one, you have— I've seen the growth, right? And it's weird because it's like I'm older than you But yet there's so much of that that oftentimes with you and I is flipped because I hold

you in such regards that it's like I'm talking to an older brother even though you're 41 and I'm 50. But I have seen that growth of you, and it's like, that's what's so cool is because you always keep surprising me when I think you're like— you've hit to where you're such a— I don't want— how do I say that? You're such a good person already, and then you go and do something and it like puts it up another notch, and I'm like, wow. He's— well, I feel the same way about you, right? Like, you, you, uh, back to Jordan Peterson, one thing he said, he, he, um, if you've never listened to it, they asked him what he thought about the Queen dying. Oh my goodness. Not— he, he didn't bring anything political or anything like that, right? Um, and he said, he goes through his explanation of how important that is to society as a whole. Yeah, and he said, I want to tell a story. And he said, I want to tell a story about politicians and super famous people. And she said, okay.

And so he goes and he begins to tell a story about being at

the Kentucky Derby and Donald Trump showing up.

And I'll tell you why I cherish our friendship so much, um, he said When I got back, he said, I had had to fly out, and he said they almost shut the airport down because he was there. And he said, I get off the airplane and it's this whole deal to get back to the Kentucky Derby. So we go into this room and he said the feeling is just electric. He said he's not even here yet and the energy's just electric. And he said he walks in and the entire room changes. And he said he's just super famous. And he said that's what happens when you're around super famous people, is the energy changes. And he said, the first thing I thought of was, man, that's dangerous.

And she said, what do you mean? And he said, for a human being to be that electric and have that much, you know, energy around them and that much power— and he said, the most dangerous place you can ever be as a human being is when no one is willing to tell you the truth. Yeah. And he said, the man has a propensity for not listening to anything anybody says, and that's a dangerous place to be. And so if you want to know why I cherish our friendship so much, it's because you've always been willing to tell me exactly what you see and exactly how you feel. And it's the same with David. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart, because I found myself in a place when me and you first became friends that I thought I was right all the time and I couldn't listen to other people. And you taught me the importance of slowing down and listening. And that's why I'm always so hard on you about listening.

Yeah, is because you taught me that and you were willing to call me on my BS, right? I have a personality that can be big and, and, uh, boisterous is not the right word, but I'm I'm just like that guy, right? Like, that's just how I act. That's my behavior. That's how I was raised. It's my personality. And, and my most valuable friends are the ones who will tell me I'm full

of shit. And considering back then I was going a million miles an hour, it's funny that so much actually stuck to the wall, you know what I mean? Because like, it wasn't like there was this you can remember the conversations you and I were having. It wasn't like it was well thought out. It was right off the cuff, right off— nope, that's bullshit. No, being— paying people like this is fucking wrong. And now I've been able to adjust and go, well, you know, there's— I can see where that works in that situation. I can see where it's definitely not working 95% of the time the other way. Yeah, but it's like I have to keep going back and, and saying, you know, because it's like that guy that messaged me, right? You've seen the messages.

Like, you don't talk about flat rate, you need to talk about this more. And I'm like, I don't talk about flat rate. We're at 200 episodes almost, and it's

195 of them are bitching about flat rate. It's like that— it's like the, the same guys. There's one commenting on Jaded and there's one commenting on mine. And he's, he's upset saying like, flat rate's a scam. Exactly, that's what we've been trying to tell everyone, but you're not making it any better, dude. We're trying. You're, you're, you're screaming at people is not making it better though.

No, and I've never screamed. I've just always— here's the side, here's the other side, right? Like, from this perspective, it's a wonderful tool. Like, Alan and I, we Dude, we walked around Fremont Street at SEMA and talked and talked and talked and talked. I have so much love for that dude because it's like we have come so far from where I wanted to, like— and once I saw him in

person, like, oh yeah, the first, the first thing you ever said to me about him— and, and listen, we joke and we pick, and he is, you know, you know, the very close circle of friends, and he's in that circle. Yeah, um, I don't know if you know this, but that initial dinner we went to that night was a little special. And so David and I, we, we said— we walked out and David said, hey, I want to go eat.

That restaurant was not for me.

Yeah, the waitress was, was an interesting experience. Um, but I'm gonna tell you right now There was a Mexican restaurant down there on the corner of that place that was bomb diggity. And so we sat there and ate while y'all were

walking up and down Fremont Street. And you know, it's cool because he got to come in, he got to meet, you know, Robert, who I had

already met before but never met. And no, we don't call him Robert, that's Speeding Ticket, okay?

That's Speeding Ticket, that's who that is.

Mr. Subaru for everybody. That's it. Mr.

Speeding Ticket now, you know, but the whole bucket of rags dinner,

you know,

um, I don't want him to laugh.

No, it's good, it's all— that was special, that was special.

We got a chance, Mike and I, to later walk around and really share some, you know, good conversations. Yeah, I have so much respect for him now, especially with what, you know, the last year has been like for him. Man, I would have never thought that little guy would have those, you know, the fortitude that he's got. And I mean, and I have even more respect for him now.

You've just not met his brother yet.

That's the whole situation. Listen, I think his brother's going to be on the— an upcoming episode.

Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Let's go, let's go. Well, here's the deal. It's 5 o'clock. Yeah, you need to go check on my employees. We, um, we had a valve cover on a Toyota that was spraying oil out of it. So we recommended a $300 oil leak evaluation service to wash the entire engine, and then we recommended a valve cover.

And I said, has it occurred to anyone that the oil is hitting the radiator? It's spraying out so hard. Wow. Maybe we should take the oil cap out and see if we have excessive crankcase pressure. Yeah. And so, uh, we're changing course currently. I'm gonna go make sure that this ship is still in the water. I love you.

I hope you have a wonderful evening. I love you too. Yeah, it's, it's just doing Chevy Cruze

stuff is all it's really— that's it, that's it. Hey, listen, we need to do more of these. Yeah, I think that me and you— I know we've been all over the place and some of the conversations probably didn't make sense because the Canadian internet was dying, but I think that I, I— this is kind of like a therapy session for me. I feel relieved when we have these conversations, and I feel better about things when we have these conversations. And that's why we have 2 million plus Facebook voice messages between the two of us. And so I think it would be good if we just started recording some of them.

Yeah, yeah. And whether it's like a Sunday afternoon 30-minute window, you know, and we clump together into some kind of collage or

something, or, or whatever. Oh, that's, that's what I'll do. I'll just save all the voice messages.

Well, then we need to get the nicknames back out for everybody else, just as protective, because, you know, poor Eric, he'll like— he'll pull his, he'll pull his YouTube channel and everything, right? I know, right? Poor— with a 3D printer just trying to print up like, you know, a completely new Eric.

Oh my God. Well, I love you. I appreciate you. I'm honored to, uh, to call you my friend and my brother, and I'm excited on this journey. I'm excited to see where we go and what happens. And I don't know that we have all the answers, and I don't know that, that we're always going to go in the right direction, but I'm excited to see what happens next.

Well, I, I mean, I, I, I've told you 100 times, right? I'm so blessed that, that you've come into my life to be able to guide me, and I in turn sometimes be able to reach my hand back to you and say, now get up here and try this, you know. And it's just the way it's— for whatever reason, it was put together for a reason. And, and, yeah, you know, 100%, I now know, I, I— this isn't about Jeff being the greatest technician in Ontario. This is about Jeff, you know, sharing what Lucas has been able to teach me with everybody else.

So yeah, and this is about Lucas sharing what Jeff's taught him too. Right? This is about coming together as technicians, as shop owners and service advisors, and trying to say, hey, listen, we're all trying to accomplish the same thing. Yeah, we're all trying to have good lives, right? It's like a marriage, it's like a relationship. When you realize that you're not fighting against each other, that you're fighting the common battle, trying to go in the same direction, Yeah. And if, if that person's not interested in that, that's when you— that's when you grease the wheels, right? That, that's

the deciding factor. Yeah, 100%.

Love you, bro.

Love you, buddy. Bye. Talk to you soon, man. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on, and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASAR Group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say: in this industry, you get what you pay for.

Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10mm, and we'll see you all again next time.

Shop Owners and Techs MUST Communicate Better | Lucas Underwood

About this episode

service information

shop coaching

static vs dynamic calibration

ADAS calibrations

seat weight sensors

power seat circuit

Chevrolet Silverado

Volkswagen Bus

GMC Sierra

VIN

Volkswagen Rabbit

ECM connector

split year

shop gross profit

shop net profit

P&L (Profit and Loss statement)

loan servicing

Xentry

IRA

401(k)

HSA accounts

brokerage accounts

Chevrolet Volt

flat rate

Subaru

oil leak evaluation service

valve cover

crankcase pressure

Chevrolet Cruze

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