00:00
Welcome back to the Nevo EV News Podcast. If it's Tuesday, it must be Nevo EV Newsday.
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On this week's podcast, we have a bit of an exclusive. We have got the CEO of Donut Labs,
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which I'm currently coming to you live from CES in Las Vegas. And at CES in Las Vegas, Donut
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Labs announced that they have come up with solid-step batteries. And our production ready,
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going to be in vehicles, two-wheels, four-wheels, all shapes, all sizes, and verge motorcycles
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are actually going to be shipping with that battery in it. So ready to go, ready for production,
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we're going to be chatting with Marco straight away, as well as that, we have got small bits
00:45
and use the likes of flush door handles are going to be banned or have been banned in China.
00:51
We have a brand new charging hub at the Friscati Center in Black Rock. We're going to chat about
00:55
the Siamese stats from 2025. The ID Polo interior was revealed a couple of days ago.
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rewarding. Learn more at Chase.com slash Sapphire Reserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank
01:47
and a member of FDIC, subject to credit approval. But for anybody who doesn't know,
01:54
my name is Derek Riley. And on this podcast, we chat about all things electric vehicles.
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Nevo's Ireland's only dedicated EV platform and we'll be covering where we were this week,
02:01
what we've been driving, what we've been doing between the podcasts. If you haven't already
02:05
subscribed or followed us wherever you're listening to, please do so. And if you enjoyed the
02:08
episode, please leave us a rating and comment. It really helps us out and it doesn't cost
02:12
you anything. So I must have been tagged in about 100 posts for people who are in the EV space,
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saw this solid state announcement from Donut Labs. And let's go through the top five facts
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before we chat with Marco here exclusively live on the podcast. Number one, production ready
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versus concept. You can get lab only breakthroughs and a number of manufacturers have come up
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with that. But Donut Labs announced that their all solid state battery is already in mass production.
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It's not just a prototype. It is shipping in 2026. The first vehicle is going to get it
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is the Verge motorcycle, the TS Pro and Ultra. And they're going to be delivered in Q1 of this
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year. This makes Verge the first manufacturer in the world to deliver a production vehicle
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powered by an all solid state battery charging. You're going to get zero to 100%
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not 20 to 80% all the rest of it. You're getting zero to 100% in five minutes.
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It is a and Marco is going to talk about the charging speed, the C that there is 11 C, I think
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he said. Lithium ion batteries that stay slowed down significantly after reaching 80%. So you
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don't know that charging curve. The solid state electrolyte is naturally more stable, meaning
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it doesn't face the same thermal runaway risks as ultra fast charging. The liquid electrolyte batteries
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do massive battery energy density 400 watt hour per kilogram. So that's nearly double the standard
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Tesla 2170 cells. The Verge TS Pro this translated into a range increase of 217 miles to 370
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miles. Even using the same shape and cradle for the battery. The cell themselves are remarkably
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same size as a large smartphone. Extremely durable and temperature resistant. Donut Labs is targeting
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a lifetime battery with a design life cycle of 10 was 100,000 life cycles. Additionally,
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the battery solves the winter range problem. It retains over 99% capacity at minus 20 degrees
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Celsius or 22 minus 22 degrees Fahrenheit. It remains stable and retains over 99% capacity at
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100 degrees Celsius and safe because it contains no flammable liquid. The battery will not ignite
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even with punctured or crushed. And the last thing really that's a big thing for a lot of people
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is the fact that it's sustainable and geopolitically safe. It's green because it avoids rare
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conflict minerals like cobalt, nickel manganese and uses abundant materials that can be sourced
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globally. Which Donut Labs say makes the battery cheaper to manufacture the traditional lithium ion
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cells at scale? So we're hearing all the right things. Marco, as you'll hear in this interview,
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is very bullish on listen. People are going to question it. People are going to be skeptical
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about it. There's going to be a lot of clickbait out there. But let's get into the interview
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with Marco. And after that, we're going to chat with Spencer from Verge Motorcycles as
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well. We're here with Marco at CES 2026 at the Donut Lab stand. Marco, big announcement this week.
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I was getting tagged all over the place. I'm Mr. Evie Ireland. Solid state batteries are coming.
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Tell me why somebody should listen to this podcast for the next couple of minutes.
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Well, I mean, we just changed the world a couple of days ago when we
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brought into the market the first solid state battery that actually is in production vehicles
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and shipping to customers. So there's a lot of people talking about down the line. I
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watched your video. It was very good that it was always coming next year. It was coming next year
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and still out in Columbus. You didn't walk the walk. You talked the talk. You walked the walk.
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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and these are in bikes that have been shipping for years now. They just
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made a model upgrade. And these batteries are now in these bikes. I'm going to chat to
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the verb guys after this, but this section of the podcast in production. So tell me some
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of the stats if you don't mind about the battery. Yes. Yeah. So as we stated, we can get to
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400 watt hours per kilogram. So that's approximately two times the range for normal use case.
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We can do 11C charge time. We can do maybe even a little bit faster, but that's at least
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something that we are that anybody can expect from these cells. And that means
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five minutes or so charge time zero to full. Of course, you need to have
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the charging station that's powerful enough. We also do have solutions for that. So we do 10
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megawatt hour 40 feet container packs that can be next generation charging stations
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that are mobile that can be moved from solar parks to state to mobile storage locations,
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or they can be charging from the grid. But with the solid state charging station,
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like mega batteries, you can then get in to the 11C even with the COVID trucks that need 600
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kilowatt hour packs. And we can charge them in less than 10 minutes as well with this. So we are
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we are going also into the storage space, space mainly to fix the problem of the of the fast
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charging. Unbelievable. Yeah, you get a couple of use cases and you can see them here understand
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we've got drones, we've got heavy goods. There was also some an interesting with the motor with
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regards to not just batteries, donut labs doesn't just do solid batteries. You also do that motor
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that we know from the verge motorcycle. Yeah, I mean, so last year, we announced the motor
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family of five donut lab and then of course, verge dust motors on their own. We used to
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be part of the same crew, not not anymore. But but they are putting these into bikes.
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Donut lab on the other hand is focusing on everything else than motorcycles.
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But yeah, we have them in cars now longbow announced, the beautiful car that's got like
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four of these in them. There's so many much much much more coming on the motorcycle.
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But yeah, that's kind of what made us famous last year. Everybody, you go read the comments
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from a year ago, and everybody was saying that this is computer generated graphics,
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this breaks the laws of physics, it cannot be true. These guys are scammers,
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they're just wishing to get investors and all that kind of stuff. And now you start to see
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these motors in all types of vehicles on the real roads. We knew that the same would happen
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with the battery. So we were like, Okay, let's try to be a bit smarter. Let's announce it at
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the point when we are shipping to customers. Well, that didn't change anything did it. So
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still everybody's saying that this cannot be true. And I'm telling everybody,
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you can literally go and test ride the bike and go charge it at 11. Well, the bike is,
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I think, 5060 mainly because there's no mainly because of the decision of not putting any
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any anything to cool it for the packaging and optimization or performance. But with bike,
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10 minute sub 10 minute charge time is super fast already. But anybody and everybody can
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go and test that today. And and and all of that. But but still everybody thinks that it cannot be
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true. And but that's fine with us. I mean, for us, what happened is that before the show even
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started, we had almost 1000 inquiries from OEMs. And it just keeps growing growing. So we are
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busy actually delivering demo units to OEMs now and everything. And of course, there will be a lot
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of noise on the internet, because every nobody can believe that a small company that they haven't
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heard of has done something that none of the big players who looked at it for two decades.
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But I would like to remind that that's how every single innovation in the world was brought
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into the world that somebody who's who can iterate fastest, who has the smart people and
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can iterate fastest, those are the people who will change things. I mean, exactly the same
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happened with a motor. Of course, there wasn't a decade of expectation of can we make in wheel motors
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work at the level that there has been for solid state. So it's like maybe 10 times bigger,
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kind of, let's say attention or whatever. But it's exactly the same thing. And when we
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come to CES next year, everybody will be used to us providing not just solid state batteries to cars
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and so forth, but also to energy infrastructure grid balancing data centers and charging
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infrastructure and so forth. Marco, you set the bar now every year at CES, there's a big
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announcement. So you should be very careful because next year they're going to be expecting
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another big announcement. It'll be hard to top this, but we have things in the pipeline
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already. So there will be something that will continue to shock the world. And every year,
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the year after, they will be seeing products at our stand that actually prove what we announced last
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year. But yeah, that's kind of the situation. It's been pretty wild. I have like hundreds of
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inquiries from media like every day. But we rather focus on our customers right now.
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I was lucky to catch it. Because there's so much inquiry. But of course,
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it's great to tell the story and share a little bit of delight. But one of the things that
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majority of the people are trying to figure out like what is the exact chemistry and why can't you
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just tell us that and all of that. And we have our strategy. We know what we're doing. We are
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actually shipping these things in a month's time or some weeks time. Somebody would have opened
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one of these bikes. Reverse engineers. What it has and then they will be shocked.
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And so forth. We are also starting next week. We are going with our media team to third party
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authorities showing the validation process and how every single claim I made is tested by a third
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party. And these things will start to then people will start to ask different questions
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one after another. But we are not the kind of company that because of the pressure from
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the internets that we will then go and spill the beans of what our trade secrets know,
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we'll let them figure it out over years rather than say everything. And you were talking about
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its actual solid state. There's lots of variations on the solid state. No, this is 100% all solid
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states. And the other thing is that there was some speculation like maybe this is some
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super capacitor or whatever. Some of this kind of conversation. I'm like, no, these are solid state
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batteries. That's it. And you can take one of these cells, put it on a table. After one month
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you go and measure and there's no discharging whatsoever. And so these are actual solid state
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batteries. It's unbelievable when you can think about the opportunities that I'm in the EV
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space. So I think about EV all the time. But as you said, energy storage, drones for
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the lightweight, et cetera, et cetera. There are so many applications. You're going to be so busy,
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Marco. Well, we will be busy. But the other thing is that we are able to scale production very
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fast. And so we are now at gigawatt hour level, maybe can go to two gigawatt hours this year.
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Next year we are multiple tens of gigawatt hours already in Europe. Well, some of it in US,
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some in Europe, some in Israel and, you know, person golf countries. But yeah,
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let's see, it depends a little bit on the off takers, because we are trying to
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then build capacity on where there's needs. Very good. Marco, I won't keep you too long,
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because as people queuing up to interview, chat to you, not interview, you were talking to
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an OEM before I chatted to you. Best of luck with Everton. I'm delighted to catch you
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as an exclusive interview on the podcast. I look forward to the best of luck. Thank you so much.
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We're here with Spencer from Verge Motorcycles. Spencer, I've seen the motorcycle that fully
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charged everything, electric shows, seen it here. Very unique, really interesting design
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and in collaboration with Donut Labs, you've also got that in-wheel motor, but now
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salad step batteries. Can you tell us a bit more? The future is here. They said it wouldn't be,
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but it is. Yes, so Verge Motorcycles is the motorcycle platform that will prove Donut Labs
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technology. They've unlocked it and we are the beneficiary of that, which is absolutely amazing.
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A lot of people have said it's not a thing, but I can tell you now, I've sat on the bike,
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I've ridden it in Estonia, it is real, it's not vapable. Unbelievable. Years ago I saw the
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hub-less wheel at fully charged, I said back in the day and Marco was saying that people were
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saying this isn't going to work, so he's already conquered that to say that it's an actual
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operational electric motor, but now we have salad stage and it's in motorcycles that people
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are going to be getting delivered. It's not a theory, it's not coming soon, you can have it,
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as you said you were on it in Estonia. We're going to be starting deliveries of
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our solid-state battery-powered motorcycles, that's a mouthful, at the end of Q1, so Europe
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and in California and the US, we have a whole array of people. We've had up to, I think we've
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had 50 reservations already in the last day, just because of the announcement. People are
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already waiting for this, yes we're a premium product, but people are willing to pay that
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for this kind of technology. So we will no longer make a motorcycle with lithium,
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which is in itself a great achievement, but yeah our customers are ready for this and
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600 kilometers of range. Yeah because they didn't realize that this was coming and now you're saying
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by the way you're getting solid-state and you have the long-range option as well, so people can,
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if they've put their order in already, they can reach out and say you know what,
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I'd like the long-range option and I'd say there's going to be a few people upgrading there.
16:46
Absolutely, yes we built that into our pricing model, is that anyone that has a reservation,
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whether it's from 2019 or yesterday, are now being upgraded to the TS Pro with solid-state
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and then they get the option then to add on the long-range pack, if you will,
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which does unlock the 370 miles or 600 kilometers of range with charging powers of up to 200 kilowatts.
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If you're interested in finding out more, we're talking about this in an audio format,
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but what I'll do with Spencer afterwards or somebody from the Verge team is actually go
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on their stand and go through the motorcycle in a bit more detail or normally a four-wheel
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channel, but I think people are into electric vehicles and they like their motorcycles.
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It was always a restraint, electric motorcycles were mainly seen as more of a commuter,
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whereas Verge are saying you know what, if you do want to travel across country,
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this opportunity is there now as well with that solid-state, that charging speed, etc. etc.
17:36
Yeah, I mean the TS Pro Generation 1 that is sold and has been selling in Europe
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has now been taken over by the Generation 2, but you know that was already the,
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it had the Guinness World Record for longest single charge distance, which was 197 miles
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in London, and it also had the CCS combo charging at 25 kilowatts, so 30 to 35 minutes we were looking
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at, still pretty quick. You're going for a restroom, you're getting a cup of coffee,
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you're stretching your legs, you're doing that anyway, so you're charging while you're
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doing something else. I always, so my bladder lasts as long as these batteries that people
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recommend. We won't get into those personal details, but you're exactly right, you know, and
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the thing with cars versus bikes is bikes is a hobby slash profession, whereas you know,
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everyone needs a car these days you could say. So there's such a wide spectrum of people,
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so people look at our bike and go, that's not our bike for me, or it doesn't have this,
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but the Verge TS Pro is our first bike, and if we can produce these numbers,
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you wait till we actually come out with a full portfolio, and then people will really be
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like, okay, this is very cool, because it already is legit, it already is, you know,
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what we have and what is on the road today. So when people start to see that in other
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platforms as well, not platforms, sorry, categories of bike, then it will really sink
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into the masses, I think. Manufactured in Europe? Yes, Estonia. Very good, and so it has that
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European base, but also the benefit now of donor labs out of Finland. In Estonia, Finland,
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I've been to countries, there's a ferry that goes across, there's a great synergy there,
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great to see that partnership continuing on, and both parties benefiting from each other.
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Yeah, I mean, it's critical that we do keep things in Europe for us, it's one of our biggest markets,
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yeah, you can argue, economies of scale and China and, you know, the Asian countries that can rival
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price, etc., but it's part of our DNA, we want to keep it that way for as long as we possibly
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can. It adds credibility in some respect, but also just it gives someone, I think it gives the
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Europeans a bit something to be proud of, because we've seen a wave, I don't know if it's the same
19:38
in Ireland, but especially in the UK and Europe, the wave of Chinese brands and Asian brands that
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have come in with great products, like don't get me wrong, great products, but those legacy
19:47
brands are struggling to keep up. So if we can come out with this kind of technology and
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maintain the pace, yes, why not? Why not talk about has that been lean, being agile,
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being able to do it rather than being stuck in a historical legacy industry that has
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maybe manufacturing in combustion engine, they've dipped their toe into electric,
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didn't really work out, we won't mention any other brands, but joking aside,
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that startup mindset, that bootstrap mindset, you have to have it this day to survive,
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no matter what the business is. Yeah, and longevity, you said they was critical, because
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a lot of companies, they'll come with this sort of technology and they'll just want to blow up,
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they'll want to be anywhere, everywhere now. We don't have that mindset, you know, we're not opening
20:28
stores in every single country we possibly can. We're going steady, California first,
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then we'll expand. In Europe, we've got a sort of mobile kind of setup, we've got Germany, UK,
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but then we're going to be going into into France, Spain, the Netherlands, all countries
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are available. No, but I mean, I mean, just like we're going to go there on tour, we're going to go
20:47
there with test drive events, we're going to go there in the modular fashion that keeps our cost
20:52
down and doesn't, we don't want to bite off too much the vegan chew because we only have TS Pro,
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which I've already said is like, it's a premium product that is, you know, attracted to some,
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not all, but when we come with our next products and our next products and the catalog grows,
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that's when it'll be more massive, massive, massive people. And people will have confidence that
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I'm going to cut across, you know, it is and like one model, if it doesn't suit you,
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if it doesn't suit my budget, doesn't suit my range, whatever it may be, I go somewhere else.
21:21
Exactly. And we've also got to prove that our service model works. We service your bikes at
21:25
your house. We don't, we don't have dealerships in the traditional fashion because we don't
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want to grow like that. We want to grow with a personal mindset of we have service fans that
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come to your house. Very good. That's also convenient. And it's confidence in our product.
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Apart from tires and brakes, which can be done at any place, check out YouTube for the videos,
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you don't really need any help, especially with our batteries now that have 100,000
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charging cycles. You won't need to have that look that because it will last longer than the
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bike itself. So, you know, the TS Pro is our first step. When we got the next products,
22:02
then people were really, really trust what we're doing. And this year, 26 will be a big year in
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the media for us. So, we're going to be giving our TS Pros to anyone and everyone. And that's
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when people will realize, okay, this isn't just a prototype that's gone a bit more viral.
22:20
No, this is a real product because we have riders in Europe that are every day on the bikes.
22:24
Very good. Spencer, thank you so much for your time. Pleasure. Anytime.
22:33
There I was, scrolling my phone. Then someone cracked open a
23:02
Mountain Dew Baja Cabo Citrus. Next thing I know, I heard a rip.
23:06
My friend tried the splits and jeans, but not a drop was spilled.
23:10
Have a blast with Mountain Dew Baja Cabo Citrus. A punch of tropical citrus flavor.
23:17
Thanks to Marco. I know he was very busy. I went to understand. I was trying to
23:22
arrange an interview. It was very difficult to get through to him. He was obviously a
23:25
very busy man since he put the announcement out. And he's a derrick. I'm so sorry.
23:29
I've got hundreds of mid-media requests, but I'm prioritizing chatting to OEMs and
23:35
literally two fellas from an OEM. I won't mention the name of the company,
23:39
but we all know the name or understand chatting to them right before I did the podcast. We'll
23:43
interview with them. Just absolutely crazy and so lucky to get the opportunity to cover
23:48
it here on the podcast. Other bits of news before we wrap up today,
23:52
Nissan Leaf production started in Sunderland just before Christmas. I was due to go over
23:56
to it, but unfortunately it didn't happen. So I'm really looking forward to it. I still
23:59
haven't driven the Leaf. I think I've sat on it. I don't even know if I've sat on it
24:05
because it was launched at the show, but I was running around the place as well. So I'm really
24:07
looking forward to sitting in and driving the Nissan Leaf. So I heard a really interesting
24:12
piece of news coming out of China with regards to the government saying that flush door
24:16
handles will be banned from manufacturers. They're just the feedback from crash safety,
24:22
emergency services, cold weather, just style. Arrow is great, but to get access into the vehicle,
24:29
if there's a crash, etc., is more important. So it looks like they will be starting to be banning
24:34
flush door handles. Just before the Christmas, I was there with Thomas from the Irish EV
24:40
Owners Association with ESB, their newest supercharging hub in the Frascati Centre.
24:45
An interesting location because it is behind a paid barrier. So you have to pay for parking,
24:50
which is a private location, it's understandable, and also obviously pay for your charging. So
24:55
eight bays, four double-sided ABB units, so same as the one in swords and airside.
25:03
Siamite released their 2025 stats and great year for EEs, as you can imagine. It was
25:12
up and up on what we've had last year. Really good percentages, 35% on 2024,
25:25
and the highest year ever. Obviously, we talked about it over the last number of months with
25:29
regards to since August, electric vehicles have outpaced and outsold diesel for the first time,
25:34
and that's the trend that's going to be growing. Petrol sales down, everything down,
25:39
except for electric plug-in hybrid and electric now make up over 40% of the makeup. So vehicles
25:46
with plug sockets on them. So great to see it and looking forward to seeing where we're going to go
25:52
in 2026. Hopefully you enjoyed the recent EVs coming this year as well. So it was good to
26:00
see what's happening in the world of electric vehicles coming down the line. Busy week here
26:06
Lots of content here. Make sure you're following Nivo on all the socials. Make sure you've subscribed
26:10
to the newsletter, as I mentioned last week, and obviously the podcast and the YouTube channel.
26:14
So coming at your ears and eyes and everywhere in between. ID Polo interior revealed. We're back
26:22
to actual touch buttons on our proper buttons on the steering wheel. We have a beautiful
26:26
driver display that you can go into retro mode, which looks really cool. Central screen, but
26:31
unlike the general ones and gen twos of the MEB platform, we are also getting a touch buttons
26:38
underneath that as well. You can still control the temperature via the screen, but we're going
26:41
to have a raw physical buttons there as well. Just customer feedback. That's what people want.
26:46
And that's the end of this week's podcast. Hopefully you've enjoyed it. It is crazy late
26:52
here in Las Vegas. This is going to be edited and then you're going to get it straight away.
26:56
Not scheduled. So it'll be around six, 37 o'clock in the morning there for you. And I look forward to
27:03
this weekend. We're catching up with the Brussels Motor Show. We're going to be flying over to that,
27:07
covering all the launches, global premieres, European premieres. And then next week, I am
27:12
flying off with a car that I can't talk about under in Virgo, but I will be able to bring
27:18
it to the podcast and the YouTube channel and the website over the coming week. So
27:23
thanks so much for listening. A bit of a random one here. I'm literally hanging on without the sleep
27:31
but I look forward to chatting to you next week. Thanks very much.
27:53
Dear Winter, Toyota can't get enough of you, because Toyota's got 25 vehicles with available
28:14
all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive. And that's more than any other auto brand. From the versatile
28:18
RAV4 to the Svelte Crown, the sleek Camry all-wheel drive, the Corolla Hybrid all-wheel drive,
28:24
the Rugged Tacoma, the Tenacious Tundra, and the spacious Grand Highlander with all-wheel drive
28:29
to keep you and yours safe. Hey, you bring the action, we'll bring the traction.
28:33
Toyota, let's go places. Based on manufacturer's websites as of 10-20-25.
