Stop Wasting Your Porsche: The Truth About Garage Queens, Lot Rot, and the 100k-Mile Myth

Welcome to Renthousiast Radio, the podcast where Will and Derek navigate the winding

roads of Porsche Obsession, exploring the good and the bad of Porsche ownership.

Grab your favorite beverage, pull up a chair, and join us, Renthousiast Radio, because life's

too short not to talk about Porsches.

Welcome to Renthousiast Radio, I'm Will, and I'm Derek.

Derek and I crank out one episode a week, and candidly, sometimes it's a little bit

difficult to come up with something fresh and something new, and so what we often do

is we go back and we look at viewer and listener comments for topic ideas, and so this week

what we thought we'd do is answer what we find to be the most compelling viewer questions,

listener questions, and so that's what we're going to be covering today.

I would urge you to stick around because there's some pretty interesting questions,

and I think Derek and I have some opinions on some of these, and maybe the opinions might

not be so popular.

What do you think, Derek?

Yeah, I mean, the questions that we picked out, we actually had a huge list of questions,

and I want to thank the audience for being so good under the videos and on the audio

side, leaving questions in the comments and saying, hey, did you ever think about doing

a topic on this, or hey, I'm struggling with this, what do you guys think?

So I had two pages of questions, and we whittled them down to probably eight or nine that would

probably fit in today's episode, but we have more, and honestly, folks, under the podcast

today, if you have more, throw them on there, and our next Q&A episode, we'll definitely

try to get through as many as we can.

I know there's other podcasts that do that, and frankly, Will, I'm still surprised that

people really care what we say about anything, but we've definitely owned enough cars and

made the mistakes to have an opinion on a lot of this stuff.

Yeah, for sure, man, and I would just kind of like to echo what you just said.

I mean, you have a day job, I have a day job, we're like a couple of just kind of regular

guys who are into the brand.

We don't have a team of people behind us coming up with really ingenious topics and doing research,

and so for those of you listening and watching, help us help you and give us some ideas, ask

some questions, and welcome it.

We've had a lot of fun podcasting with people like Zach Klapman and Michael Gideon and Shannon

Harper and, I mean, gosh, some really fantastic people that come on.

So if you folks out there have someone that you think would be fun to get on here, let us know,

and we'll do that.

So Will, with all that to say, also, check out, Will is going to have coming down the

pike before too long his much anticipated GT3 video with his fantastic 996 GT3.

So I'm excited to see that.

I'm hearing good things over text from him about how this thing is a monster.

That's really exciting.

Without revealing too much, you and I both fell into a recent trap of

possibly buying cars that we shouldn't have bought.

And so I'm eager to see what you got on your channel.

I think it's coming down.

I was really surprised to get that text from you yesterday.

Yeah, so we've been making some moves.

I've been taking a page out of the Will Brooks book of putting too many cars in one's garage,

and I do have a new arrival that came in yesterday.

And boy, how should I tease this before we reveal?

Let's just say that it's neither new nor is it old.

It's not air-cooled.

It's just water-cooled, and it is very, very exciting.

And it's a car I've never owned before.

It's one of the only models I don't have any direct experience owning.

So more to come on that.

Yes, sir.

I didn't want to steal your thunder, but I had to come in with that.

Because I think maybe I have somehow given you the germ of impulse buying cars that really

we shouldn't be buying.

I mean, I just did the same thing.

And so I'll get into that a little bit later on my channel too.

So without further ado, man, let's get into the questions.

Let's do it.

All right.

First question from Jason underscore W underscore 78.

Guys, at what mileage does a Porsche stop being a collectible and start being a driver?

Is there a specific number you mentally let go?

What do you think?

Well, I mean, why don't you start?

I have kind of this thing going on where I've got conflicting thoughts and I have opinions that maybe

I don't know.

You kick it off.

All right.

So I'm going to give you guys the 40,000, 100,000 rule that I have in my head.

Of course, you're scientific about it.

Of course, you're scientific.

Okay, go ahead.

Well, listen, you asked.

I'm going to tell man, I have it all partitioned in my head.

So like psychologically, I think the market responds very differently to cars that are under 40,000 miles.

And so I mean, granted, all right, you have drivers, you have driver mileage cars.

Those are the collectibles, 59 miles sitting in collections in the wrapper.

We're not talking about those.

We're talking about cars in gen pop that people buy and then drive a lot or a little.

And so I think that if you want to talk about collectible cars,

generally the Porsche community thinks that cars under 40,000 miles are still fresh.

They're still collectible miles, certainly in the teens in the 20s.

But even in the 30s, if you have good maintenance, that's a collectible mileage car.

Over 40, I think it goes into being a driver car.

And I look at, and I think we talked about this maybe like a long time ago,

I look at like mileage between 40,000 and 70,000 or even really 40 and 90 as free miles.

So like more or less the value of the car might move up and down a little bit, but

I don't differentiate a car with 53,000 miles really any differently than a car with 63,000 miles.

In my mind, they're kind of both the same.

Those are driver miles.

It's a driver car to hit like 90,000 miles.

Once you have that psychological 100,000 mile barrier in my mind, you're free.

You're free.

Like you get over 100,000 miles as long as the car is well maintained.

I don't care if it has 101, 110, 120, it's all the same to me.

Drive it, drive the wheels off it.

And so those are like the three buckets I look at, collectible under 40,000, driver over 40,000,

and you're free to drive the hell out of it over 100,000.

I mean, as usual, you're like way more structured with your view on these things.

I mean, for me, A, I'm never going to own like a car with 3,200 miles.

I mean, it's just going to be A, beyond my reach, B, beyond my appetite, and C, what a waste for me.

Like my preferred use of these cars is to drive them.

So I think about like, what is collectible?

I mean, is collectible value retention and appreciation?

I mean, what's your goal for it?

Are you just somebody who has a, you know, some sort of a large garage and you just walk

around and look at your cars that you put behind velvet ropes?

I mean, I'm a driver and the further on I get in my life, the less I care about the money

end of things and the more I appreciate patina and experiences and memories.

So maybe I'm coming at this from a slightly different angle, Derek, but it's like,

to me, it's just not, I will drive any cars that I own, even if they're lower mileage.

So as I'm sitting here thinking about the lowest mileage 9-11 I've had actually is a 993.

I think when I bought it, it had 67,000 miles on it.

So higher than, you know, 30 for sure.

But also, man, you're seeing most of these cars out there like bumping up at 100,000 miles,

at least the ones you see on the open market.

They aren't, you know, I'm sure there are some that are trading hands that it's like,

kind of like in the secret network of off market or high end boutique dealers.

But, you know, for me, that was rather low mileage and the way that I view it,

I've been driving the hell out of the car now, all original paint, which I appreciate.

So I fully PPF the car with the intention to drive the car.

And so, you know, the way that I look at the miles I'm putting on it, it's like, okay,

like I'm the first one to enjoy the car turning over 70,000.

I'll be the first one to enjoy the car turning over 80,000.

And so, I don't know, man, I just look at it.

I think it really starts from the standpoint of what you're trying to do with your car or cars.

And so I know that's a little bit off from what the guy I think is asking.

But, you know, I think, again, it's like anything else in this hobby,

like what are your ownership goals?

I think it's, I think Seinfeld, like always talks about how our car is only original once.

And like those original miles that you drive on a car before it's restored,

if it's kept well, it's original, or somehow more special,

maybe more pure, because once you restore a car, it's never quite the same,

no matter how, even if you try to bolt by bolt, make it original.

And so, I've never been in that position personally.

I just know how I look at the market.

And here's the other thing, and you and I have talked about this well.

Like a 997, those are coming up on 20 years old.

And so, when you start looking at cars that are under 30,000 miles or 40,000 miles,

that's almost worse, because you know those,

that car might not have been driven for years, or very, very little, right?

So that's almost deleterious to the car.

My GT3, it's an 04, and it only has 35,000 miles on it.

And I feel like, you know, and I'll get into this later on my channel,

and certainly we'll talk about this thing on future episodes, but you can just tell.

It needs work, and my gut is telling me that just by virtue of my experience in driving

a couple of hundred miles, like some of that work is just, it's because the car is sat.

You know, you can just tell kind of, I think that, anyway, I won't get in tall of it,

but that's what happens when you get these lower mileage cars that are getting long in the tooth,

you know? So more than just like you got to drive the hell out of it,

and try to burn off some of the carbon on the valves and stuff, and just get it hot,

and really drive it. Like you think there are systems in that car that might have deteriorated,

because it just kind of sat for long periods of time?

Yeah, that's kind of my thing. As I've put more miles on it, and as I've hammered on it,

it seems to be like getting like less stiff. That's not exactly right, but if you've driven

enough of these cars, you know what it feels like to drive one that's been sitting that hasn't really

had that carbon blown out of it, you know? I mean, I drove a 993 recently,

belonged to a guy who really over the past five years, he put 3000 miles on it.

I got in that car hard, and like massive black smoke came out the back,

because I mean, it just hadn't been exercised, you know? So those are the kind of things that

are showing up with this GT3. Nothing catastrophic, nothing bad, right? But just,

you just kind of get the sense. I mean, the tires are shot. They've been sitting there,

sitting probably just parked for a long time. The tires need to be replaced,

because I think they got big flat spots on them, you know, that kind of thing.

Are you familiar with the term Italian tune up?

Oh, yeah. They all need it?

Yeah. Yep. So for those of you out there that haven't heard that phrase before,

it goes back to, I believe it was Lamborghini, and people would bring in their Lamborghinis and

say it doesn't drive right. Something's wrong. The engine needs work. It needs a tune up.

So the Italian mechanics would take the Lambos and just, and again, it might be Ferrari. I'm

sorry if it is. Someone's going to correct us. But essentially, take the Lambo out when the

owner's in the waiting room and just beat the crap out of it for an hour and just hard pulls,

high RPMs, just burn off all the carbon, and then all of a sudden it runs better,

and they bring it back and they're like, we fixed it. It's the Italian tune up.

These cars have to be exercised. And if you lug them and you drive them to 3000 RPMs,

I was talking to a guy the other day, a Porsche mechanic who said that he had an owner who had

a beautiful car, but only never wanted to take it over 3000 RPM because he didn't want to hurt it.

Not good.

You're hurting the car by doing that. You can't do that.

Not good. Yeah.

No. Yep. Yep.

Ready for the next question?

Always.

Mark Stevens, 1982. I haven't driven my 911 in three weeks. At what point does preserving

the car turn into wasting the car? This is an interesting question.

I mean...

Let's assume this is his only car, like outside of a daily driver, not like he has a garage like

yours. I mean, the question behind the question that... How about this? That's not the road is

hit. The question I would have is why? Why haven't you driven it? I mean, I haven't driven my 993

in a couple months because A, it's stashed like in the back of the garage behind all the other cars,

and I haven't felt like kind of juggling them. And B, the weather's been shitty here.

And so I don't know that I'm wasting the car. I'm just kind of like it's a practical thing.

So in this man's case, okay, you haven't driven it in three weeks.

Well, what are you doing and why? It's like...

Yeah, let's pretend it's not winter storage. Let's pretend it's not like

has to do with putting it away because they're salt on the roads or anything.

Okay. If you're not, what are your ownership goals? What do you enjoy about the hobby? Do

you like leaving cars? And I have a friend, you know, a friend of mine, Bradley, like he likes

to drive, but much of what he likes to do is detail and just look at him in his garage.

Like, so what is this guy trying to achieve with his cars? And, you know, so I can't answer

this question. It could be he likes to leave him parked and looked at it. It sounds like he's a

driver, but if he's letting it sit and he's not driving and that he doesn't have the time to

enjoy the car, maybe he doesn't truly like the car, in which case maybe he should exit and find

something he likes. Those are just the kind of rambling thoughts that come to my mind.

Or maybe he loves the car too much. And I know people like this that it's so special.

We did the episode last week that has freaking just caught fire, man. People love it. And

what is it? Do I own my Porsche or does my Porsche own me? You know, and I think that's

kind of what you're getting at, you know? It's true. You know, and I do know people that it's

just so special and they take it out on Sundays only, only when it's, you know, beautiful sunshine

out. And that maybe, maybe this person is referring to that too. I mean, and that would be preserving

the car, right? It reminds me of my dad. He got a brand new, this is the early 2000 kind of brand

new F 350 pickup truck. And it had four-wheel drive, but he never wanted to turn the hubs,

turn the four-wheel drive on because he didn't want to, you know, wear out the four-wheel drive.

So he kept it in two-wheel drive all the time. My mom would always rag on him, be like,

you're saving it for the next person, you know? So is that preserving the car, not driving it?

Is it wasting the car? Here's the thing. There's a term called lot rot. And lot rot is when a car

sits for 60 days on a car lot. And it's a substantiated term that stuff starts to fall apart.

Rubber seals dry up, flat spots form on the tires. And especially when it comes to Porsche,

we've talked about this at Nazium. I mean, these cars, if you let them sit, they're going to

freaking fall apart in your driveway, in your garage. They cannot sit. Like, especially the

air cool cars, I mean, part of the beauty of them is that the oil is lubricating all these parts.

And if you don't, the seals will shrink and you'll get leaks. You're cut, you cause more

trouble than it's worth. So I feel like at 60 days, there's this like danger zone,

especially with the fuels today, the fuels with ethanol. Like, I think it is like just about

three weeks or four weeks. The fuel can start to varnish. The ethanol is, is it hydroscopic,

where it's like, it sucks in water and takes on water. And then all of a sudden you start to

get rust inside your lines, inside your gas tank. So garage queens have problems. So to your point,

Will, maybe the Mark has to ask himself, if the car is too precious, does it make sense just to

let it go and get a car he's not afraid to beat on and drive it more often? Or maybe, maybe he's

got three kids and he's working all that crazy. Maybe, um, you know, maybe he doesn't need the

car right now. I mean, go get some cash and take some trips to Disney world. I don't know.

Yeah, dude. That's it. So I guess the punchline on this is, you know, only you can answer that

question. You know, yes, but that doesn't stop us from asking. I want to challenge you on something.

And you said this repeatedly over however many episodes we have, 80 some now or whatever it is.

But like the idea that air-cooled cars sitting begin to leak, that they all leak.

And I don't know, man, like I crawled around under my 993. That car's been sitting, I don't know,

60 or 90 days actually, just again, because the way I have to store it, it's super painful to

take it out. And I'm like, finally, I was like, well, I've been looking at the top side of this

car for a couple of months. I wonder what's going on beneath it. Because for sure I thought something

would be wet or dry as bone. And that's my current 993. My previous 993 dries a bone.

Now my first 993, it was wet when I got it. It was like chain boxes. So that's a pretty standard

thing that you want to do is get the chain boxes. The gaskets there swapped out. But once I did,

man, that car was bone dry too. So like I get it. I mean, you're not wrong, but it's funny. I just,

I had never brought that up to you, but I've had three 993s, all of them bone dry and they sat.

Yeah. I mean, it might be RMS. You know, it might be IMS.

Some people walk around saying, especially with the air cool stuff, like, oh, they all leak.

Guy's selling your car. Well, I think that's different.

Guy's selling your car. You know, listen, I think I don't, I don't think they all leak as an excuse

to put up with leaks. Like people say that all the time. It's not leaking. There's no oil in there

or it's a Porsche. They all leak. That's what I'm talking about.

That's what I'm talking about too. Guy's selling your car.

No, no. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. He doesn't want to take any money off. No, that's not what I mean.

I guess what I mean to say is, is that, you know, when you have, if you've ever taken apart a 911

motor, it's an amazing thing, right? You have these metal pieces that are, that are glued together,

essentially. And like it's machined in such an unbelievable way that it should leak a lot more

than they do. But the motor, I mean, oil is, because of its viscosity, is going to find the

path of least resistance. And if a car sits and the oil sits, it's going to naturally migrate

through passages over time. So that's what I mean. Like I'm not saying that your car's going to leak

immediately if you let it sit for three weeks. But if you don't drive your car over the course of

a couple of years, very much, right? And it just sits, that oil's sitting, you know? It reminds

me of, have you ever heard of a material called Croyol? Croyol is a, it's a, it's used to loosen

up bolts. And this is like super duper, this is super duper, super duper geeky. Yeah. K-R-O-I-L.

And it is the most amazing stuff. Like, unlike PB Blaster or anything like that, Croyol, you put,

you put Croyol on something. It, like it, I think the tagline is, is like the oil that creeps. You

can watch it like go places that you, it shouldn't, like almost like uphill, like fighting gravity. I

just share that because like, I think if you, if you let a car sit with fluids in it, I mean,

it's just a metal box held together with some, you know, adhesive, more or less, and some rubber

seals, it's going to leak over time. And the reason it leaks is not so much because of the oil, but

because of the rubber. I mean, rubber dries and it shrinks and it cracks. And so if you, and a lot

of this stuff is only lubricated by the oil to stay supple and stay, you know, flexible. So

when the, when the rubber dries up, you get leaks. So I don't know if that answers your question.

You obviously have had good luck though with your 993. Yeah, that's all I was going to say. My three

twos, I've also had two, three twos that were dry as a bone, but sounds like maybe I've been unlucky

in a lot of things with these cars, namely transmissions over and over rebuilds. But you

know, I have been lucky knock on wood about with leaks. And so perhaps I just got, I just dodged

a bullet. It's the beauty of living in North Carolina, the perfect, perfect humidity of air

foaming, foaming. But actually that leads us to our next question by air cooled addict.

I went in for a gasket and spent $4,000. When is preventative maintenance actually just

lighting money on fire? What do you think of that? Well, all right. So early on, you know,

when I first had like my first, I don't know, four or five, six air cooled Porsches and I was

doing content on all of them. And I just was more anxiety ridden at that point in my life. And I

just, I don't know, I had a lot of, I would buy a car. And if there was any doubt that anything

had been neglected or that might not be up to a hundred percent standard, I mean, I would go crazy

deep with it and just throw money at it, even if it didn't need fixing.

You're the guy I wanted to buy cars from. Yeah, because I'm the guy that lost all the money,

you know, my loss your game. But at this point for me, I'm going to wait for it to break. I'm

going to wait for it to, I don't know that thankfully I've never been stranded, but I mean,

I know what it's like to have a serious misfire, you know, and that's the point of time you stop

driving the car and you take it in. But I've really gotten a lot less serious when it comes to

just throwing money at quote unquote preventative. I would love to know what the hell this gasket is

for four grand, you know? I don't know if he's meaning just that or it was one of those, hey,

like while we're in there, let's start to get this, that and the other. I don't know,

his name's air cooled addict. So it has 993 in it. So I'm guessing that's what he has.

Maybe he wasn't as lucky as you were. Well, in terms of, he bought the car I passed on.

Yep. That's right. Well, hey, listen, maybe it was a rear main seal. He went in for a gasket. It was

just an expensive gasket. So actually, so there you go. So here's my advice on this is that you

fall into the while you're in there trap and Porsche is famous for this. We talk about all the time,

the while you're in there. In the Porsche world, for those of you out there just starting to own

these cars or maybe having owned them for a while, you can all relate that the Porsche costs at the

end of the bill is like 70% labor. It's very rarely that the parts are super expensive or

make the bulk of the purchase. It's all the labor. And the reason is, is that when Porsche packages

their motors, they're very tight. And from an engineering standpoint, it's in a very small

space. And so there are certain things that you have to drop the motor for when we're talking

about 911s and or 928s or whatnot. And when you have it out, the while you're in there, let's say

it is a rear main seal. Well, if you're going to do a rear main seal because it's leaking,

you probably should just replace the clutch because while you're in there, you might as well

just freshen up the clutch. It's another 1500, 2000 bucks. Oh, how's the flywheel? Should we

resurface it or replace the flywheel? There's another $1,500. But the labor is the same whether

you do it or not. And then you start spending money on parts because you're like, well,

to pull it out and do a clutch in 5,000 miles, I got to pay for all this again, right? And so

I think, well, then, oh, well, it's out. I might as well just do all the plugs because the engine's

sitting there on the floor and we can get to all of them. So let's do the plugs. Oh, let's look at

the oil lines or if it's a water cool car. Oh, these plastic coolant lines. Let's pin them

or let's do this, right? And then all of a sudden your bill for an RMS, which is $2,500,

you're at $6,000 and you just blinked. It's the while you're in there.

That's it, man. So if you're new to this game, that's going to sting. Maybe this guy's new to the

game and he's like, damn, $4,000 for a gasket, but I had to do all this other stuff. That's smart.

That happened to me. Early on, I was so pissed off. I mean, it was really kind of like,

I was not my best self, especially on video and I would find out like how much more it would be.

Fast forward to my like 20th Porsche. Let's call this GT3 the 20th or the 21st. I don't know. I

really should go back and count them, but sometimes I'm like, I just can't face it. So at any rate,

I have a certain amount of money set aside in my mind that it's going to take to get this car right.

So, you know, there's something funky going on with the clutch. Could just be that the slave

cylinder needs to be replaced. That's kind of how it feels. It feels squishy and weird, but I'm like,

you know what? I'm going to drop the motor anyway to do the coolant lines. Why don't we just go

ahead and replace all the clutch parts so I don't have to worry about it, which by the way,

though a friend of mine had a, he had a oddly enough, a leftover, a brand new 996 GT3 clutch

kit that he just gave to me. So that kind of helps. But you know, just like sitting on a shelf,

that's kind of random. What a good friend. He bought it for his own and then decided to go

with a lightweight. Anyway, so I'm going to do the clutch and I'll probably end up doing the

coils and plugs and I'll bet y'all end up doing the motor mounts. And, you know, of course,

who knows what else we're going to find in there. And I just am at a place where I,

I know it's going to be that way. And so while it, while I'm in there, I'm going to do it,

you know, but you do have to find a line between like maybe if it doesn't need to be replaced,

don't replace it, you know? So. Yeah, I agree with you, Will. And because if you,

some of our comments on our videos, people say, well, I really wanted a 911, but after listening

to you guys, I don't think I can afford one if things go wrong. So I'm just going to look for

a Miata or fill in the blank. And I feel bad because I kind of feel sometimes with our

abject honesty about like the crap we've been through, we scare people away a little bit.

And I don't mean to do that. Like when we, when I, when I say like a $2,500 RMS turned into a

$6,000 or $7,000 job, didn't have to. But you know, it's, it's again, it's like

knowing what we know, it's nice to do these things. So you have peace of mind for long-term

ownership. But for those of you out there, yeah, they're expensive to work on, but you don't need

to do this. The while you're in there is, is goes as far as you need to, right? Well, I think too,

it's all about like, you know, I feel like I'm hammering on this. I don't mean to be a dead

horse, but the ownership goals that you have for the car. If this is your first and only Porsche

and you've waited a long time to buy it, and it's your dream car. And you also know it's desirable,

relatively speaking. And let's just imagine you, you go and you pay 50 grand for it, but you also

know you're, you're somebody who's going to keep it for 10 years. So you, you know, yeah, you got

the 50 grand, you could probably get that back out later if you wanted to sell the thing. And

maybe it costs you another 15K over the course of 10 years or whatever to own it. Like maybe you

never see that money back, but this is the way I think about it. I love the hobby. Like I'm not a

member of a golf club. Like if I were, I'd be spending money every month just to be a, be a member

that I would never see that money back. And I wouldn't give a shit because that's what we're used to,

right? Like you just, for me, it's the cost of the hobby, the dollars I'm not going to see again.

That's what I'm paying for the experience of ownership. And I think maybe that helps, you

know, yeah, we talk about horror stories and the cost of the hobby. Like if you love these cars like

we do, I mean, then it's just what it costs you. Maybe it's 2K a year just to, just to enjoy the

ownership. But I'll say this 100% worth it. You know, and I've also been saying a few times by like

the 9-11 appreciation curve, man. So I'll feel like I'm way upside down and you hang on to it

even for just two years. The next thing you know, the thing has jumped up in value. So the pain is

way less, you know? And so it's, I think, I'm glad you're saying this, Derek, because I really,

I would hate for this passion project of ours to turn into something that, that scares people away

from the hobby. Well, it's like anything, when you get two people together that have a lot of

experiences, something generally the discussion turns to bitching, because it's like, Oh, that's

it. That, that, that story hurts. Well, I get a story that hurts more. Listen to my hurt. Yeah.

You know, but you know, the thousands of people listening to us or the dozens of people listening

to us are kind of like, well, shit, I don't want to get into this, this hobby if I'm going to get

burned on that. So, but in the spirit of making memories, let's move on to classic driver UK.

Can I trust an old 9-11 to take my kid on a long road trip? Or is that just asking for trouble?

Well, I think you can tell us about your personal experience with this.

Well, I have many personal experiences with it. I love sharing my cars. Oh, God.

I was going to say, I actually made a mistake there. It was 9-9-1 that you ran into a horror

story in, right? It wasn't air-cooled. When I bought my 9-9-1 and drove across country.

Yeah, with your side, right? Yeah, yeah. But ironically, that was the weather and not the car.

The car performed amazingly, even in like negative 14, 20 degree weather.

You had one that broke though, didn't you? When I got back, yes. No, no, it's that car.

Yeah, with my 9-9-1, I got back and I had a floppy shifter syndrome. Something broke off the

side of the transmission as far as some pin and then I had some, God, I think I had another

issue with it too. And I do think in many ways it was because of the crazy cold. I drove back

in this car and it was so cold for so long that stuff just kind of let go. But here's what I'm

going to say about this. Do it. Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it. Make the memories with your kid.

Driving with your son or your daughter in the passenger seat, seeing them like being proud

to be in this beautiful car, seeing how happy you are, driving through this beautiful pastoral

landscape with the person you love in the passenger seat is the most beautiful thing you can do.

And if something breaks, and you can probably comment on this more than me,

if something breaks, that becomes part of the tapestry of the story of the memory you're trying

to make. So if it breaks down and you have to get it flatbedded or it breaks down and you have to

walk up to the toothless old codger's house and borrow a wrench to get something off the car or

on the car, that becomes a great story. Some of my favorite stories come from breaking down on my

old motorcycles and the people you meet along the way. And that becomes part of the memory.

I do have, again, Will, because I have my pocket protector in, I do have the holy trinity

of things you should have in the car to try to prevent that. But why don't you comment on that

first and then I'll follow up with how to not break down. I have not had the opportunity to

take one of my girls on a road trip in 9-11. In fact, they're so disinterested that I could

have a brand new car sitting in the garage and they would literally just walk right past it.

Because it's been a revolving door that they don't even really pay that much attention.

So I've not had an opportunity to do this, but I have done a lot of long road trips in

old 9-11s. And I would just say that, hey, just make sure you're not super time pressured

on either end of the trip, build in a couple of extra days. So if something happens, you have

some room to breathe and just hope it doesn't. In my experience, I have not been knock on wood,

stranded. Something I will do on rallies, in a rally is a large gathering of Porsches and the

objective is to drive for a couple of days in beautiful scenic areas. They'll break you into

run groups. And I always try to get in the same run group as my buddy, Eric, who owns a sports

purpose garage. Yeah, the dude has a whole shop in his tricked out SC. And so he'll whip out

like a floor jack and God knows what else, but he'll fix you on the side of the road like that.

So I think that's the secret too. Have a buddy who's a master mechanic and roll with him. And

when it comes to pools and boats, don't own them, but know someone that has them,

because then you can enjoy it too. So have a run group with an accomplished mechanic like Eric

Lind, who for those long-term listeners, crazed our podcast for a few episodes in Mechanics Corner,

giving us some of his great knowledge. We should have him on again, dude. I'm sure there's so many

more questions that we could ask him. He's doing some amazing work. He lives about an hour from

me and some of the cars he's working on are just ridiculous.

So here's the thing. And this is going to be kind of specifically for more air-cooled stuff,

because I think the question is, I have an old 911. So I'm assuming that means air-cooled,

though I shouldn't, because I'm getting pretty old here. So people probably think that 997s are

pretty old, 991s. That's fair. We're going to pretend. That's fair. Right? I'm not old. You're

two in your glove box. DME relays are for your fuel pump. These relays just pop for no reason.

And when they pop, you have no fuel pressure and your car is dead. But it's super easy to get to.

You pop it out, you put a new one in, and generally you're okay to keep going. So don't have one,

have two. Anyone who has a 944 or a 993 or really anything in the middle knows what I'm talking

about. The DME relays are super important. Number two, in the Holy Trinity, have at least

one quart of VR1 oil in the car. Air-cooled cars burn oil. And of course, you're going to check

before you go on a long road trip. But on a really hot day, I mean, I've taken my 50-year-old car in

95, 98-degree days, and I'm like, do I have any oil pressure? Because the oil is so thin,

because it's so hot, and it's good to have another quart of oil just in case.

And then finally, and this is really important for the air-cooled cars,

have a fan belt, an extra fan belt, and the tools to change it. Because if your fan belt goes and

or it snaps, you're stranded. Your engine can't cool, you can't drive it. There's tons of videos

out there. Save them to your download folder, to your YouTube. So in case you don't have any

service, you can watch a video on how to change a fan belt on your 911. But super important,

two bonus things for the Holy Trinity that I do put in there. Fix a flat can in a small little

rechargeable compressor. They're like as big as like a half a loaf of bread. They're great to have

in case you get a flat, because a lot of the newer cars especially don't have spares. So you're

going to have to try to figure out how to get your car, you get your tire up and running.

And then finally, I don't know if you have these in your car as well, but in all my cars, I keep

like a portable jump pack. They're super small now. They're like lithium. Don't forget a funnel

and a gallon plastic bag to put your used funnel in so you don't get oil everywhere.

Oh, I thought that was for drinking, because your car broke down. You might as well get drunk.

All right, fair. That's a beer bottle. And then what they call that? You've seen those?

The funnel with the tube. You pour six beers in there and it goes right down some of our physics.

I didn't waste my time with that, Will. I spent all my time doing handstands and kegstands. So

I drank my beer upside down. I didn't need it. I did it all, man. I did it all. So no, I halfway

kid, but like that funnel's useful and I'll keep a plastic bag. But yeah, I got a little duffel

bag with all the things you're talking about and just throw it in the air cooled car and roll.

And roll. Dreamin' underscore of 1964, or it's 964, sorry. If you already own a modern GT car,

what is the best first air cooled 911 to buy for under $100,000? I think you're uniquely

positioned to answer this question, Will. I mean, I feel like my answer is always the

same answer. It's 993. Under $100,000? Yes, you can do under $100,000. Yeah, man,

driver quality, $100,000 plus. You're probably mid-80s, you know, and that could be with the

mods and the maintenance record you're looking for. It's just about, we talked about this earlier.

It's a higher mileage example, but yes. Higher mileage. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Though I kind of

feel like, I kind of feel like 993 is a little bit like or exempt from that 100,000 mile like or

bad type of thing. I kind of feel like they're old enough now that you pick up 120,

130,000 mile example. You're like, yeah, I got a 993. It's all good.

Yeah, dude. I don't know. I've seen a couple lately that were in the write-up, it said, hey,

hey, you know, motor rebuilt 10,000 miles ago and the car has 130,000 miles. I'm like, damn,

did it really already need to rebuild at 120,000? But my first 993, when I sold it, had 122 on it,

and the thing pulled like a freaking freight train. I sold it to a friend of mine who, to my

knowledge, he's had no problems. So anyway, I don't want to be entered too much, but at the end

of the day, if you can find one under $100,000 that's had a rebuild, that's a bonus, but I don't

know that you're going to see that. You're in an SC? You're going to get in an SC for 65?

Yeah, that's kind of where I am. First air-cooled, modern GD car. I don't want an overlapping

experience. I want something that's so completely different, and I feel like the 993 is a nice

halfway measure. It's kind of modern. It's kind of old school. It's like both. It's comfortable,

but it's also raw. I'm thinking, go back to an SC or a 3.2. You can get a 3.2 G50 or a 915

transmission. So the 3.2 liter are 911s from what? Like 84 to 89 or 85 to 89. The 915 transmission

was a transmission that was from the 70s into the 80s, and then they switched to the G50 transmission,

which shifts better to some people. Let's just say that it's not as notchy or it doesn't have as

much character, but it's more reliable. I guess maybe I'm going over my skis on that one, but

you can pick up yourself like a 3.2 for 75, 80, a decent example, and still have 15 under your

belt for maintenance. But I think that's like, if you're going to think of the prototypical

air-cooled car that's going to be very different than the GT, that's where my money is. 3.2,

mid-80s, 911. Yeah, I think that the question here is like, how far below 100 are you looking at?

Right, right. Hey, listen, you could always, the market, I think Nathan Mercer said this when he

was on our podcast. Here we are talking about all the awesome people we've had on our podcast,

and I didn't even mention Nathan's name. I'm sorry, Nathan. He's been on our podcast multiple times.

Twice. Twice we've had him on two times. Yeah, I'm an ass. I'm sorry, Nathan. One of our favorite

people to have on the podcast. But he said it, the longhoods like my car, late 60s, early 70s,

longhood 911s have softened. They're in the 70s and 80s. Now, there's a lot more maintenance

with those, but I mean, God, as far as character and experience, you can't do better in my mind.

So it's a lot of money. Under $100,000 is still a ton of money, but still there's a lot of options

there. Moving on. Target Tim, what is a modification that instantly ruins a Porsche for you, Will?

Is it an aftermarket radio, a giant wing on a base Carrera? What is it?

God, you go first. I have thoughts. This is going to be an easy one, but I know you're

going to agree with me. Anytime you cut into the body of a 911 or a Porsche, I feel like it's a bad

mod unless it's a safari build. That's a side, but what I mean is like RWB or when you start

putting big flares, big wings, you drop that car until it's riding on bump stops and it's so low

that it's for the look and not for the ride. For me, that instantly ruins a Porsche for me,

because I think that the way they're designed, there's such beautiful cars and you can definitely

make them your own to an extent, but when you start putting on these giant fender flares and these

giant wings and these crazy front valances, you lose me because I think you're taking away from

kind of that pure, beautiful, kind of almost feminine yet masculine look of the car. That gets me.

Yeah. I don't want to smash anybody's company. In other words, the RWB people, but

no, people love them. And dude, I'm not bashing them either. People love them. There's a lot of

things I don't like that people love and vice versa. Yeah. Yeah. And that's all I'm saying

because I wanted to agree with you like wholeheartedly. Like that is not for me

at all. I don't understand it. It is not something that would even for one moment

be something I would consider owning. So for me, back to the question like which mod instantly

ruins a Porsche, you know, here's the threshold question is reversible or irreversible. So when

you start talking about what you're talking about, like, I mean, anything's reversible with enough

money, but you're not going to get past that when you've chopped up the body, you know? But for

example, I bought, I bought a GT4. This was against my better judgment, but I bought a GT4 that had a

matte wrap on it. And I don't know, man. I mean, that's to me, it's a, it's a rather big risk to

take and a pretty big no-no to buy a car like that. I mean, if somebody asked me, you know,

should I buy this car that's covered in wrap or PPF that I can't see through? I'd be like, no,

no, no, don't do it. You know, I rolled the dice and things worked out for me, but so I don't know

that I would necessarily say that's a mod that would ruin it for me. But reversible versus

irreversible is the real question. And, you know, the second question behind that is how much is

it going to cost me to reverse it too? Sure. Yeah. I gave this advice the other day to someone

that if you are going to wrap your car, make sure that you have a full paint correction done

beforehand and take so many pictures of how great the paint is and then pictures of the wrap going

on over that paint. So people feel very comfortable that it's well-represented, you know, because

it is. We joke about that, right? Shorting is cat. It's a short, shorting is wrap. You don't know

if the paint is good or bad underneath until you have it off and then it's yours no matter what.

And so here's one other thing I'll say. And again, this is me just pontificating a little bit,

but modifications that kill me is when you're... So, Will, you're looking for a 996. You're looking

for a 997 and you're like, oh, that's a pretty sweet car. It looks pretty stock from the outside.

And then you see pictures of the interior and they have... And I'm sorry out there if you do this.

And they have... It's a black interior with red accents on everything around the bezels of the

dash. The steering wheel has red inserts in the leather. The clock has a red face. The seats have

patches of red somehow in the seats on black. It looks like something out of AutoZone from the

1990s. And that drives me nuts. And the case of this example, does it have neon lights underneath

it too? It could, man. I mean, well, here... All right, here. And this goes exactly along with what

I'm saying. Almost always when you see that kind of interior, the word Porsche or the Porsche crest

is everywhere. The mats have big red Porsche crest. The armrest has the plastic sticker of Porsche

on the armrest or even better on the passenger dash is just the Porsche shield on the dash.

I can envision this, but where the hell are you shopping? I don't know that I've ever...

I've seen it that bad. This might be a New Hampshire Hick thing. I don't know. But

they're out there, man. Hey, listen, I told you, I frequent Facebook Marketplace quite a bit.

And so they're on there if you like. That's where you see this. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

You know, one thing I don't like too is I'm not a big fan of the Porsche shield,

unless it's done very tastefully on the outside of a car, on the front quarter,

you know, like on the wings of the car. Like almost like Ferrari has it,

but it's a Porsche and they have a Porsche symbol. Do you like that?

No. No. Sometimes the Pegasus. Sometimes the Pegasus is on the 356.

But you know, there's got to be some other touches that make sense with it, you know.

When I edit this in, I'll put a picture of that so people can see what it looks like.

All right, I'm going to let you finish the last question here.

Yeah, yeah. So let's see. Eurospec Eric says,

I want fixed back buckets for the street. Talk me out of it.

How much comfort is worth sacrificing for the look? What do you think?

You have more experience with swapping out seats than I do. I mean, I've definitely on this podcast

talked about carbon buckets and how I'm not a big fan. Essentially, what I think Eric means

is when they talk about fixed backed buckets, they're almost like race seats,

like Recaro pole positions or something where they are either carbon fiber or made to be

very sporty with huge bolsters. And when we talk about that, I often think of what I like to call

the gallon of milk friction test. So you're at home, you're cooking dinner and you need to go get

a gallon of milk and you're like, I'm going to run down the street and get the gallon of milk.

Are you going to hop in that car or are you going to be like, I can like drop myself in.

I got to buckle my three point harness, my five point harness. I got to go down the street for

a couple hundred yards to get my milk. I'm going to take the Mazda. If the seats are uncomfortable,

like that, I say don't do it. Yeah, I think so. If we're talking aftermarket non-porsche carbon

buckets, we'll talk about the factory buckets in a moment, but there's no need to get a fixed back

bucket when you can get into, at least when it's appropriate for the generation of the car,

which I would submit to you might be 996 and beyond, maybe 993, but the Recaro Sportster Cs's.

So they have the bolsters. They have the fit where it's going to hold you in place,

but you can adjust them. So you can adjust the seat back four and a half. You can get it to

your right comfort position. And when you want to throw some things in the back, you can fold it

forward. It's got a little paddle on the back that allows you to actually like push that there.

So forward. So I mean, to me, it's like, why? I'm a seat. There's something about me in seats,

though, they have to be just right, where I will hyper-focus on what's wrong. And really,

it can drive me crazy. So for example, my Carrera T that I had, there was just something about the

point where the seat bottom met the bolster and it would kind of pinch me. It was really bizarre,

but I couldn't ignore it. It's like one of those things where you can't unsee it and it sucked.

I mean, it would became a thing. So I would say that for Eric, I mean, if you're thinking about it,

find yourself a set of Recaro sports or CS is depending on the generation you own and try those

out before you get into some fixed back buckets. I have owned two, two Porsches with the factory,

the carbon, the factory buckets. And I actually just bought a third that has buckets that is soon

to be revealed. And I also have, I currently have a GT4 that has the buckets, the 18 ways,

I think they are 18 ways, maybe 14. The GT4 will generally, guys are chasing the ones that have

the buckets in them. Those seats can be difficult to live with if you're somebody who wants to just

run errands in your Porsche. Because you have to be, I mean, I'll overstate it, you actually have

to be fairly athletic to get in and out of the car without damaging the bolster. So the bolster is

covered in leather. And if you slide over the bolster to get out the door, you start to tear

through it, you start to wear it out, you start to discolor it. And so there's a kind of this

special method that a friend of mine thought, where if you want to get out of the car, you slide

the seat all the way back and then you got to grab the threshold, like you got to support yourself

on the threshold, the door threshold and jump over the seat bolster to get out. And that way

you're not ruining the seat. Yeah, dude. And so if you're, okay, so it's 90 degree day and you're

going to run to Target and then the grocery store. Well, I'm not going to say you're going to pour

sweat or anything, but it is kind of a factor when you're climbing in, climbing out, climbing in,

climbing out. And so that said, the pluses of that, like they are freaking awesome when you're

actually in them. Porsche once again, just did a fabulous job in the design of these seats.

Although I will say this and I will shut up. If you're somebody who needs to have a little bit

of like tilt on the seat, there are companies that make these little risers that you need to

insert on the front of the seat. So it actually, because as they come from the factory for me,

it feels like the seats like too flat to the floor. So there are these risers that about an inch,

inch and a half tall that you install, you can do it yourself. If I can do it, anybody can do it.

And it raises the front of the seat up by about an inch, inch and a half. So it feels like it's

got a little bit more tilt to it. So that is my diatribe on the buckets.

Inside scoop on carbon buckets. Yeah. Listen, there are always people that are going to be

dailying their race cars and they're proud of it and good for you. That's awesome. I just don't,

I don't think that it's any less a flex to have a great car with 18-way or 14-way seats that are

very sporty, but you can use them all the time and have a good time. So that's where I, that's

where I land. My current, like my Racing Yellow GT4 981 GT4 has the sofa seats in it.

And it's a great car and it's so user friendly, you know, like whatever. That said,

you do lose kind of a special elevated sense when the car has 18-ways versus the buckets. It's just,

it's just fact. So you really have to weigh it all. That's it, man. You got to, you got to,

and how about this? Here's a insider secret. Go sit in some before you freaking buy it.

Ask me how I know, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you've had both so you can speak from

experience there. And that, my friend leads us to a nice long podcast this week. This was a fun

one. You know, everyone listening, if you guys want to, if you guys want to have more of these,

let us know. I love answering listener questions. I think it's fun and I appreciate the, I appreciate

you guys listening to us on these. Derek, it's always fun to have friendly debate,

friendly disagreements and, you know, friendly enthusiasm for the cars.

Yes. And potentially the next week or two, some big news in terms of what we're adding to our

garages. Once we get everything settled and fettered and all that good stuff, we have some

more fun stuff, lots of content to come, which is cool. And that's a wrap for this episode of

Enthusiast Radio. We hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of Porsches with us today.

And if you enjoyed today's show, be sure to check out previous episodes and subscribe to

Enthusiast Radio wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to leave us a review. Your

feedback helps us improve and ensures we're delivering the Porsche content you look forward to.

Catch you on the next episode of Enthusiast Radio.

Stop Wasting Your Porsche: The Truth About Garage Queens, Lot Rot, and the 100k-Mile Myth

About this episode

collectible cars

driver car

100,000 mile barrier

Porsche 911

restoration

long in the tooth

deteriorated systems

Italian tune up

F-350

four-wheel drive

lot rot

garage queen

air-cooled cars

RMS

IMS

viscosity

Croyol

rubber seals

gasket

misfire

while you're in there

Porsche 928

rear main seal

clutch

flywheel

Porsche GT3

Mazda MX-5 / Miata

dream car

hobby

DME relay

fan belt

Porsche 356

Porsche Carrera T

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