Susie Wolff Opens Up: The TRUTH about the FIA, F1 Academy & Toto Wolff behind the scenes

That's just not fair what happened.

There were 600 articles created online questioning my integrity

from an investigation that was never done, that was dropped immediately.

So do you believe the president of the FIA should still be in his role?

Please meet Suzy Wolf, she's a former professional race car driver.

She became director of Formula One Academy.

I was lucky to grow up on the west coast of Scotland.

I was taken to watch a Formula Three race at Dunnington Park

and that's when it really dawned on me when I met Toto.

I was going through a tough time, I was lonely.

I was in this world where I didn't quite know how to navigate.

People think I have this polished life.

There were times where it didn't look like the journey was going to turn out to be successful.

I fell into what felt at the time like a big black hole

and I suddenly thought, what do I do?

Who am I? What am I going to do?

The photo that I've got to show you that I picked out from those earliest years

was one of the most noticeable things about this photo.

When I look at that photo, I don't see me as the only girl.

That's my safe space, yeah.

In a racing car and when you've got the helmet on and it's just you and your engineer,

everything else fades away.

I'm not here to be the best female.

I was there to try and be the best.

Susie, I'm so fortunate today

to not only have you sat opposite me in my van studio in the middle of London somewhere,

but I'm fortunate because I grew up in Motor Sport Valley.

I live about an hour from Silverstone.

I'm 40 minutes from Castle Coombe.

I'm right near Thruxton and racing's in my blood.

I absolutely love it.

But you weren't quite as fortunate to grow up as near racing tracks like that as me.

So in your own words, who are you and where did you grow up?

Well, I was really lucky.

First of all, can I see how cool your van is?

I'm having a lot of van envy here.

I was lucky to grow up in the West Coast of Scotland with parents that

showed me what was out there and what was possible.

And you could say that Motorsport was in my blood

because my dad met my mum when she came into his shop, his motorbike shop,

to buy her first motorbike because my grandfather, her father,

was a works trials bike rider in the 1950s.

She had grown up riding a bike.

She raced quads and I had a little quad bike from the age of two.

And then when my dad was racing at Nock Hill,

which is the only real circuit in Scotland,

I would always be in the little cart track.

It was five five pounds for ten minutes.

And then I got a cart for my eighth birthday.

So they did have a lot of travelling to do.

We lived in a camper van.

It was half living, half workshop and big road trips,

especially when I moved into the European and World Championships.

But a brilliant time together as a family.

I look back on those memories really fondly.

It was just actually a few weekends ago.

Lewis and I both said how wonderful those days were in carting.

And it was at the age of 13.

I was taken to watch a Formula Three race at Donington Park down near you.

And that's when it really dawned on me

that I could turn my my hobby into a career.

And that's when the dream was born in my head

that I wanted to try and make it to Formula One and be a Formula One driver.

Was it around about that time that you started learning values as well?

And where did they really come from?

Because in so many quotes and interviews and times over your course,

in racing, I've heard you talk about values.

Was it back in a band that you learned those values?

Hundred percent.

And and that's really down to my mum and dad and my upbringing.

And now being a mother myself,

there's so much that that I try and take from what they did

because they taught me the value of hard work.

Nothing comes without hard work.

And it's also OK to have tough moments.

It's not always going to be an easy ride.

And it's in the tough moments.

You pick yourself up, you dust yourself off and and you keep going.

And especially when I met Toto and got married, he is is so.

Let's say adamant that we we just have to always act with humility,

be authentic and obviously Formula One has become so big recently.

And there's so much media attention, but I just never try to lose sight

of of that little girl that grew up on the West Coast of Scotland

because you never forget your roots and I'm grateful for the journey

but try to never forget we're all started.

Now, you just mentioned Lewis for the first time there.

And that's really interesting because it makes me segue into this beautifully,

which is a photo that I've got to show you that I picked out

from those earliest years in Kartin.

Now, other than the fact that Lewis is right behind you, who you mentioned,

what's one of the most noticeable things about this photo?

Well, I know what you think I'm going to say that I'm the only girl in the picture.

But when I look at that photo, I don't see me as the only girl.

I see some drivers that I really like, some that I don't really like, I'll be honest.

But yeah, I was always the only girl.

But in in motorsport, you wear a helmet and I don't think

I was ever really conscious of the fact that I was always the only girl

because it was only really at the World Championships in Braga.

I was 18 and I'd finished 15th overall, which was was a pretty good result,

considering there was over 130 drivers there.

And I was called up onto the stage to receive an award for top female.

And I suddenly remember thinking, well, how many other girls have I seen?

I thought, well, that's really embarrassing.

I'm not here to be the best female.

I was there to try and be the best.

But I think it was the first moment that I realized my gender was going to become

such a big talking point throughout my career.

And that was the case.

I've only ever done one interview where I wasn't asked about my gender.

See, that's really noticeable there because it's actually sometimes the stuff around us.

It's the noise of track that has such an impact on the way that things go,

whether it be interviews or pressure or discrimination or whatever it is.

But you started in the way that I wanted to go with the question, which is growing up.

That helmet is almost like a bubble.

It acts like a safety bubble, doesn't it?

Do you feel, even though racing is a highly dangerous sport,

do you feel safest when you've got the helmet on?

That's my safe space, yeah, in a racing car.

And when you've got the helmet on and it's just you and your engineer.

Everything else fades away.

And it was really interesting recently, someone said to me, God, you must have been

so nervous when you got in the F1 car at Silverstone.

There was so much pressure.

And I remembered that I was until I got in the car.

And then it was like it all faded away.

And I just knew what I had to do in the car, what I had to deliver.

And the nerves kind of faded.

So, yeah, for me, the best moment in a racing car is on the starting grid.

The adrenaline's flying.

But I loved always those moments when it was just me in the car

and all the other noises and surrounding factors faded away.

When you were in those carts for the very first years,

kind of moving the way up and then into the next series, were you a leader?

Were you leading? Right, we should do this.

We should change this. We should change this.

Whereas, right, you need to go and do this, Dan, you need to go and do this.

Were you that person from an early age?

Because now, head of F1 Academy, you're such a figure to people

that is so authoritative and such a leader.

But was that in you from like an early age?

I'm not sure it was in me at an early age.

It was probably nurtured by being in an environment

where I had to take control of my own destiny,

because in the end, as a little girl in that environment, in the world of racing,

you need to have a certain self-belief.

And if I were to learn quite quickly, well, if I don't believe in myself,

nobody else is going to, probably apart from my mom and dad and brother.

But I think it probably got nurtured over time.

And I do think I had to develop a really thick skin.

Probably got thicker the older I've got.

Because there are tough moments and you always have the people that are against you.

It can't be that everyone supports you.

And I was just pretty good at blanking out that negativity

and not allowing it to bring me down.

And in some situations, it was my fuel.

If I if I heard of someone saying something negative,

it fired me up to think, OK, well, it's up to you, Susie,

now to try and prove them wrong.

Do you think learning to be tough early on is one of the key critical skills

that a racing driver and a leader needs to develop?

It's a really good question being tough.

But I also think there's there's nothing wrong with being vulnerable, either.

And I really, you know, give Lando Norris credit, my husband credit,

when he went through a difficult time.

It's important to talk about the tough times, because I think we, as humans,

we have tough times in our life, some more than others.

But I think for people who are deemed so successful to speak about the tough moment,

to speak about the mental challenges, that's good, because it shows others

that it can happen to anybody.

And I do think that speaking about it when you're in that position

can really help people.

So yes, you need to be tough, but I also don't think there's any harm

in being vulnerable when when you do feel that way and being open about it.

Because I think there's not one way to be, you know, not everybody

needs to be maxed out and to win a world title.

And it's OK to be different and to celebrate that difference

and and to be quite open about it.

I think one of the most powerful fuels that can power a driver during race

is the fuel of wanting to prove someone wrong.

If you're made to feel like you're underestimated

and that's not just in driving, that's in business.

That's in any kind of challenge that presents itself in front of people

that are especially tenacious people.

Like when you think back, when you were kind of like 13 to 20,

did you ever start to notice there was moments where people may underestimate

your ability, especially when they could single you out because of photos

like that for being different to the other drivers?

Definitely. And I just spoke about a good girl to a good girlfriend

of mine about this recently, who has been very successful in a different industry.

And the funny thing is it's it's not that it's a very blatant comment,

but it's a skepticism that you feel in a room or that you feel in a meeting

and it it's underlying current, which is there.

But then I can also say at the same time that I've seen it shift.

You know, when I first joined Williams or when I first joined any team

that I came to could see there's feel the skepticism.

But then even in Formula E, I had no previous management experience.

I was in my mid 30s coming into a team that had much older technical director

and older members of the team.

So I guess I also understood their skepticism.

But in moments like that, I realized just focus on the performance

because if you become really good at what you do and people see

that they've got faith in your abilities to to steer the ship

and to lead them to success, it's quite quick that you can get people on your side.

But that initial skepticism, I've I've always come across it.

The reason I'm so fascinated with people's earliest years

is because if we take you now, sat in the van opposite me, so proper,

so authentic, so proud, so professional.

Do I look so proper?

So professional.

But I want to for a minute imagine that I've hologrammed in

Susie when she was 16 to 18, that person working their way up the race in Ladder.

And if I just also picture Toto for a second

and what I've seen and know about Toto is he also presents himself

in a way that I would say is proper and prim and professional.

And I've seen those moments occasionally like the famous headphone shot,

smashed them down where that just breaks.

Is it also kind of proper to talk about the fact that you had moments

like that growing up as well?

Like, what would what would tip you over the edge a little bit

and go from the kind of logical, critical thinker to like,

and did that ever happen?

It still happens to this day.

I can be very emotional.

I try and keep it under control, especially in a business environment.

So, you know, when I get an email that really annoys me,

I save my reply in drafts.

I sleep on it and 90 percent of the time I change at the next morning

when when everything is calmed down, but I can be very fiery.

But to answer your question, that was, you know, I've just written my my

autobiography and that took me back to some tough places.

And people think I have this quite polished life

where everything's under control and everything's so correct.

But there was tough moments along the way.

And I I went back, you know, my brother, who I wrote the book with.

He forced me to go back there and he forced me to remember.

And I had all diaries that that I looked through.

And there were really tough times and there were times where it didn't look

like the journey was going to turn out to be successful.

But there was that gut instinct that that told me to keep going,

keep going, that tenacity from probably my upbringing

that gave me that drive to keep trying.

And then these small opportunities, which I grabbed with both hands

that became huge opportunities that completely changed the course of my life,

not just my career.

If you're listening to this episode, it's likely that you're into motorsport.

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And if you're into cars, it's likely that you probably have the nicest one

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What it is actually quite simple to understand.

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on your finance agreement.

Now, you see places at the minute showing 11 percent, 12 percent, 13 percent,

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However, because a dealership gives us an amount of money that's usually

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We are all so used to just saying, yes, because we're excited.

We want to get into the car.

And we never think about that split between what we're actually paying down

of the car and how much we're paying in interest.

Many people also think that when they take out a finance agreement,

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So tell me how many paragraphs, chapters or things in the book

went into drafts before being put back in either by you or your brother or Toto?

Well, let's just say we I had nine drafts of the book.

That's how much we went backwards and forwards.

Did that go from ultra professional to ultra fiery?

No, I always wanted to be very honest from from the beginning.

So I went deep.

I put a lot of time and effort and it was much a much bigger project

than I anticipated. So it took a lot of late nights with my brother

because he's obviously a film director.

So even he had to fit it in around his schedule.

But we said to each other, we're only going to do this once.

So let's give it our best shot.

And that's something which is that I'm a big believer in,

in which I try and is one of my mantras that I try and live by.

Bring your best self to the table.

If you're going to do something, at least do it to the best of your ability.

So if people read the book and and they don't love it, well, that's OK,

because I at least tried to make the best book I could.

And that's what I try and do in many things so that at least I know

it's it's raw, it's honest, it's my story, it's my voice.

There's not one word in that book that isn't that I haven't, you know,

written and checked and it's it's in a way.

It was a really nice experience and it's a nice feeling now

that I've that I've told the story and the full story,

not just the Polish story that you see from a distance on social media.

What do you think one of the hardest pieces to write in the book was?

Emotionally, it was the letter to my younger self.

Because.

I I looked at the journey as a whole.

And there was moments that I was writing that I realized

she is a little girl, that fearless little girl that had such big ambitions

and such big dreams.

I don't want to lose her.

And sometimes in life, you know, you become a mother or a father

and you become a wife or a husband and you lose part of yourself naturally

because it becomes about more than just you.

But I just it reminded myself what a fearless little girl that was.

And at times I just wanted to hug her.

At times I lost her along the journey.

I became too influenced by what people thought, what people said.

I wasn't sure how to be, how to act.

But that's a great thing with experience and with age.

You look back and you have more self confidence in your own journey.

But the journey of looking back at it as a whole was was one that, yeah.

So if she was that opposite you now and you could tell her a couple of things

that just those simple sentences may make such a big difference in overcoming

having to learn something that you've learned along your way, what would it be?

The two, and I mentioned one already, is is definitely self-belief.

You don't always feel like you can, but never lose that belief in yourself.

We're capable of so much more than we think we are.

And you've just got to go for it and have that belief in yourself.

And the big dreams have the belief that you can make them happen.

And the second one, which was definitely such a big part of my journey looking back

is that grit and tenacity.

There will be tough moments.

There will be days where you think it's not going to happen when you think

the world's against you, but you pick yourself back up, you dust yourself off

and you get back onto that battlefield and you keep going.

So what do you think she would say back to you

if you painted a picture of what your life looks like now?

That's a very good question.

Well, I think she would give me a pat on the back

because I made it to F1.

I got to drive that car.

But I think more than anything, with the contentment I feel in my life now,

with the luck I feel in having a wonderful husband, a great marriage

and a little son and family around me, I think more and more.

And that's coming from someone who's pretty ambitious.

The real joy comes from the things that are not related to success in your career

or wealth.

They come from the moments that fill your soul with happiness

and those happy moments come from probably things

that she didn't realize at the time because she was so ambitious

on achieving certain goals and so focused on the goal instead of the journey

to get to the goal, whereas now in my age,

I have a much more balanced contentment with life, still the ambition,

but much more contentment.

I want to talk about when you decided to retire from racing

because it seemed like that was a moment where you kind of maybe lost yourself

a little bit, taking the helmet off and trying to figure out like

what that big dominating time thinking thing that fueled you was in life.

Was that why you maybe struggled a little bit after you retired from racing?

Because you were looking for that great big life filling thing.

I think to say struggled a little bit would be an understatement.

I fell into what felt at the time like a big black hole.

And I remember it so distinctly because the decision to stop was easy.

But then I had gone with the the total to a sponsor dinner

and the gentleman sitting next to me said, well, well, what do you do?

And I suddenly thought, what do I do?

Who am I? What am I going to do?

And as exciting as it was to have a blank sheet of paper

and very grateful for the fact that I didn't need to quickly get a job to pay a mortgage.

So I had that luxury of time.

But I also was so unsure of where the journey should go.

I was interested in fashion, but realized quite quickly,

that's a tough business to make work.

And I was so adamant that it wasn't going to be in racing

because total was already in Formula One by that time

that I probably didn't see what was right in front of me.

But I remember being really lost and it took time to figure out what I was going to do.

And I definitely relied heavily on my gut feeling

and more at the beginning, what didn't feel right, that I could put to the side

before knowing what actually felt right.

What was one of the moments that gave you a little bit of hope

that shined a light that you thought, oh, I could I could grab on to that

as you kind of come out of that.

I had been approached by Gildo Paster to run his Formula E team.

And it was quite frankly, a ludicrous thought at the time.

I had no management experience and I didn't even understand why he asked me.

Do you understand now?

Yeah, he's we became great business partners.

We got on really well and the Formula E journey was a huge success together.

So and it was less boring than you thought at the start.

Way less boring and real credit to Gildo, because he must have seen something

that he thought was or that I had the ability.

But he put a lot of trust and faith in me originally.

And and thankfully I was able to pay that trust and faith back.

But yeah, I think I I jumped into something

which a couple of times I thought, what have I got myself into here?

But I I get comfortable in the uncomfortable.

I love pushing myself out of my comfort zone of learning new things,

of being challenged and I have that competitive nature.

So not only was I trying to get the racing team winning,

I also had a balance sheet to suddenly worry about to get the business back

to a healthy state.

And it was funny when I was looking for pictures to put in the book.

I was looking through all my Formula E years and I just look permanently exhausted

because, you know, Jack, my little son was small.

I was trying to juggle everything.

And I look back and think, God, that they were brilliant years,

but they were also tough years.

Exhausted, but happy.

Exhausted, but really happy.

Yeah, because I was I was chasing something.

But it was hard juggling it all.

And that's why as as a mother, it's not easy.

It's not easy just being a mother.

That's already a tough job, but trying to combine it all.

I wish I had the the perfect plan to pass on.

But it was challenging.

You get frightened of not having anything that puts you under pressure.

You've really hit on something there.

I hadn't ever thought of that.

But now that you mentioned it, I remember when we sold the Formula E team,

I said, I'm taking three months off.

I I need time to recover, to just enjoy.

And after six weeks, I was diving straight back in.

I am. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Something I see in so many people that sit opposite and and myself to be fair,

which I still don't understand.

And I think it's fine not to understand it is when you get asked the question,

like, why are you doing that?

Like your time's already full.

Your diary is already full.

You don't need to.

Why are you any close to figuring out what that why is?

I guess.

I mean, I'm quite a bit older than you.

So you start to learn more about yourself the older you get.

But I think you're absolutely right.

I need a challenge.

I need that pressure to achieve something for me.

That the frightening thing is an empty day, especially if total is working.

Jack's at school.

I'm like an empty day.

What am I going to achieve in this empty day?

How am I going to structure the day?

And it's only on the weekends or time off that I can really relax.

But I think that's maybe built into us.

No, we have to just accept that that's how we are and embrace it.

It is how a lot of us are.

But sometimes it can also frustrate you that you can't just be happy in the

unpressured moments, because sometimes that pressure leads to stress,

that stress leads to illness and like all kinds of things.

And I feel like so many people operate on such a fine knife edge,

but that knife edge can often be like where the success is.

And that's a little bit like when I look at Max or George's performance in Singapore is

like they operate on such a fine knife edge.

And that seems to be all along like where all of the success is.

And talking about like where all of the success is.

I want to look at F1 Academy for a minute.

And I actually watched one of the races in Singapore

because a friend of mine and fan of the podcast Andy Bruce,

his daughter Megan was racing at Singapore in the back of the grid.

She absolutely admires you.

But they really hit home and I spoke to them prior to coming on today about the fact.

And I didn't really realise just what a poor position W Series was in.

And obviously you come along with F1 Academy.

F1 Academy is like flying compared to what W Series was.

What do you think is one of the key differences along that knife edge to why it's successful?

Well, I don't want to talk W Series down because obviously I was able to learn from their failures.

And it opened a door.

And it opened a door, exactly.

The biggest difference and I don't want to take credit for the success of F1 Academy.

It's owned and run by F1.

And that is a fundamental difference.

You have the pinnacle of the sport investing.

You know, when I had this huge vision to get the F1 teams on board to race alongside F1,

I could pick the phone up and more often than not, people were willing to not just take the call

but say, OK, yeah, let me hear you out.

And all 10 teams signed up to support F1 Academy.

And when I went to Stefano and said, I want to race with F1, the race promotions team within F1,

we managed to put a calendar together.

And it's not as simple as you would think because there's only so many race slots.

But I have to feel support from within the ecosystem.

And when I decided to bring all the assets in and commercialise them,

initially I was going out trying to just sell a vision.

But I had the support of the F1 commercial team behind me.

And then I was very lucky in that some brands that were entering Formula One

because of the momentum also women's sports had over the last three, four or five years.

You know, PepsiCo with their Gatorade brand,

Tag Hoi or American Express, they came to the table and they said,

well, we want to enter F1, but absolutely F1 Academy at the same time.

There's no question to do one without the other.

And that commitment from the brands showed what value we brought to the table as a support series

and really was a validation to Formula One that it was the right thing to do.

So I don't take all the credit.

It really was, I think, the ecosystem that believed in F1 Academy, that supported it

and has allowed this huge momentum.

I mean, in Las Vegas, Hello Kitty collaboration, we are disrupting,

we're smashing down this preconception that you can't be a girly girl to love racing.

Well, we have such a big young female fan base now in F1,

42% of the global fan base is female.

The fastest growing fan demographic is the 18 to 24 year old female.

We want to show her it's not pink or racing cards.

It's not Hello Kitty or McQueen.

Both can live in the same world and compliment each other.

It's not one or the other.

And I think this idea that it's only Tomboys that love racing,

we are on a really good way to change that whole perception of it just being a man's world.

The way you talk is like a steam train rolling along a track.

Like when you get passionate about something, you're like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

You can't shut me up, right?

Just going in a straight line, but that's that knife edge.

The track is like that knife edge, it seems.

Is there a reason that most of those races are held on street circuits like Singapore?

Well, I don't make it easy for the drivers because you're right, they're on street circuits.

It's Singapore, Montreal, Las Vegas.

But it's more to do with, I'm trying to hit three continents so that we very much

are global championship, that we reach the audiences in the fan base on each continent.

And then it's very much how to put a calendar together that has consistency over not too

many gaps in between.

Obviously, F1 has other support series.

And if F2 and F3 are racing, for example, very difficult for me to be on the same weekend

because there's simply not enough slots on the weekend.

And I don't want to race at eight in the morning before the gates are even open.

So there's a lot of different challenges to putting the calendar together.

And yeah, the poor drivers, they have to do a lot of prep because the street circuits are so limited

track time.

But I think it's something which can help them build up their ability to learn circuits quickly.

And it's an F1 circuit in the end.

Who knows how helpful it might be further on the journey.

Are the cars fast enough to attract all of the audience that you want to?

Very good question.

Should the cars be quicker?

We want to stay within the motorsport pyramid.

So the car is an F4 car, which means drivers can do dual programs.

Girls can race in F4 in Italy and Germany and in the UK.

Do we want to create a car which is out within that pyramid?

My worry of going to a quicker car.

How do the drivers fund themselves through F4 to get ready for the quicker car?

I don't think we have a strong enough, let's say, talent pool yet that we can move up a level

and expect the young drivers to be able to fund themselves.

Because obviously that step from carting into cars, it's expensive and we take away that financial

barrier.

But do you think with the things that you talked about and that train moving forward,

that that is going to change?

It could be in the future.

And we just had a working group on F1 Academy.

Do we make the cars quicker?

Do we make it something which is much more of like a female Formula One?

But the consensus was very much, we need to build the foundations first.

We need to get more women, talented women racing for the best to keep rising.

So it's something that can be explored in the future.

But I think in the short to mid term, F1 Academy is at the right level to help those young girls

from carting come up and then we can propel the best ones further up.

See, there's certain drivers that stand out for everybody,

whether you're a team principal, a fan, whoever.

And for me, I remember being at Silverstone, I think it was in 2021.

I think it was the year Joe crashed and that horrendous crash at the end of the straight.

And I met Jamie Chadwick for the first time.

I was just on the just past the corner where Max went off.

And I'll never forget me and Jamie Chadwick because she's someone that stands out to me

because I was so excited at this faint prospect probably back in 2021 that I felt as a fan

of Jamie potentially getting a race seat in Formula One through Williams.

Look at something.

Do you think every single day, every single night about when the first female will be in an F1 seat?

And do you think this is possible?

I think it's possible.

I don't think about it that much because I think it will be inevitable if F1 Academy

does its job over the long term.

There will just be so many more girls racing, the best will naturally rise,

and it will be a natural progression that one makes it to Formula One.

I think what many people forget is it's really tough to make it to Formula One male or female.

There's only 20 spots in the grid and I know many, many very talented male drivers that should

and would have deserved the chance but never made it, didn't even make a career out of racing.

So I think we have to acknowledge that it's tough for anyone, but I think the more

competitive women we get on track, it will inevitably happen.

But I think F1 Academy's mission is something much wider.

It's not just about getting a girl on the F1 grid.

It's challenging the perception of the sport.

But if that was my perception, that was my perception that it was about getting a girl on

the F1.

I need to do a better job in my comms.

Well, in that sense, this is why I do this because it gives the opportunity for me to be

very real and honest and say, I think that's probably still a perception of a lot of fan bases

because in fan bases you have core, medium, and then then wide, like the ones that just

dip in and out of conversations.

Explain to me in the simplest terms then why that's not the goal of F1 Academy and what that

difference is.

F1 Academy is about challenging the perceptions of the sport.

It's about speaking to that new female fan base.

It's about speaking to the next generation and showing them that they have a place in our sport

because the young F1 Academy drivers, they're role models.

You go to a Grand Prix or you switch on F1 TV or your broadcaster might be showing our highlights.

You see a young girl sipping up a Ferrari race suit and jumping in what looks like a miniature

Ferrari Formula One car.

That's such a powerful image and we need more entering the sport for the best to rise to the

top.

So this focus on one making it to F1, it will happen if we increase the talent pool,

if we create the opportunity, if we find the funding to get our drivers on the next categories up.

So I don't worry about that happening but I think we have a wider mission to change the

perception of the sport of it being a male dominated environment and not for women.

So what you're saying is the goal isn't to convert fans, it's to ignite the new ones.

It's to definitely resonate with that already established fan base but definitely ignite a

new fan base and that's why some of the partnerships we've done like Charlotte Tilbury,

we wanted to disrupt, we want to find that new fan base that can look at our sport

in a different way and appreciate in a different way.

To all my loyal listeners listening on Spotify, Apple and other streaming platforms,

I urge you to do me a quick favour that you might not know that you could do.

You can actually follow if you're listening on Spotify, the Road to Success podcast and also

rate it with how you feel these conversations have been, how they may have helped you or if

you're just enjoying the one that you're listening to today.

It really will help us if we're able to grow our streaming platforms beyond hundreds of thousands

of monthly listeners. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the podcast and

I really hope to bring you some more inspirational guests soon.

Talk to me about when you got the chance to drive a Formula One car for the first time.

How difficult is it to, you touched on it a little bit, but how difficult is it to control

those emotions pulling out of the garage? Did it feel different to how you described it as

sat on the car at the beginning of a race? How different did it feel? Or is it just the

same emotions with more power? No, I definitely think it's special.

Just to give some context, it was 2014 in a free practice session. Am I right with Williams?

Yes, that was my big moment on the big stage, but obviously the first test happened

the year before at Silverstone, but not with the gaze of being on a Grand Prix weekend.

Which one did you prefer? Oh, the F1 weekend.

I thought you would have. Yeah, come on, that was my moment.

But I remember leaving the pit lane and when I got up to full power on the back straight,

I suddenly thought I'd done my helmet up tight enough because the G-Force was pulling it up,

but it was such an exhilarating feeling. And an F1 car, the downforce and the faster you go,

the more downforce you have. That's something that you mentally have to very quickly comprehend.

But at the same time, I immediately got over that initial feeling special and F1 car and

thinking, okay, now I have to go fast. I need to go fast and show that I'm capable.

Then did you? I don't think, at Silverstone, I felt I could have done better and it was at

Hockenheim where I ended up only two tenths off for Lepimassa in the same car, in the same session

that I really showed that I was capable. One of the tough things being a test driver is you just

get so little time in the car, so much time in a simulator, but that's not the same as being in the

real car. So I think, yes, I did show. If you could choose a fresh set of rubber to go quicker on

that car or the absolute perfect mindset on that day to show up and get in, which one would you choose?

100% mindset. So much in life is about mindset. So much more than a new set of tires, definitely.

Let's talk to me about the mindset you're in when you first met Toto.

When I first met Toto, I wasn't in a great place. I was suddenly thrust into this world of German

touring cars. I was trying to navigate being the only girl. Should I wear a dress? No, maybe it

should. Should I wear a suit? And I was being sent to all these events and I was suddenly on a big

stage and I hadn't had my season of F3 because I'd broken my ankle and lost my sponsor and my

season. How'd you do that? I'd love to tell you it was some glamorous crash, but I was at home.

I'd gone out to buy milk and bread for my grandma. She was sat in the car and I ran into the shop

and it was an icy day. It was in January and I slipped coming out of the shop

and broke it quite badly, put 10 pins in place to put it back together. I mean, I go back to that

time in the book, that was for sure. But you still showed up at the circuit?

Well, I lost my license because I couldn't stand on a leg for nearly six months. It was a lot of

rehabilitation and I had tried to get back, but I'd lost all the financial funding and then

I'd managed to get some testing with World Series by Renault, which I thought I could race,

but again, the funding fell through and it was one call from a gentleman called Gir Harunga who ran

the Mercedes-Benz program in DTM. I won one chance to test that changed the course of my whole life

and I thank my lucky stars to this day for that call. But I think to your question when I met

Toto, I wasn't, I was going through a tough time. I was lonely. I was in this world where

I didn't quite know how to navigate and he really helped me because he suddenly was,

I had someone on my side that I could be very open with about a vulnerable offense,

felt at times how tough it was, how lonely I was and he just got it and he was very good at helping

me just be me. He said, the easiest thing to do is just be yourself. You want to wear a dress,

you want to tie your hair up and wear makeup, do it. If you don't, you don't,

but I had no role model to look up to so I had to navigate that time and

definitely Toto brings out the best in me. We all as fans see these visions, these moments that

stick out to us, whether it be an interview or something live and obviously I've mentioned

the headphones, goodbye. It's like so iconic now and then. However, there is actually a video of

Toto that I just think is so brilliant that it sticks out as like one of the memories I have

of him and I'll have to ask him one day if I'm lucky enough to get him here, but it's his

talking about his breakfast. It's the pumpkin nickel toast.

Yeah, it's the pumpkin nickel toast and the reason that I brought up the pumpkin nickel toast is

when I picture and potentially stereotype in here, but when I picture someone tough,

rugged, growing up in Scotland in a band, I don't picture them as someone that has

pumpkin nickel toast every single day for breakfast. What would you say like the biggest

differences are between you and Toto? We're very different, which is why I think we complement each

other. First of all, I don't eat breakfast. I've never eaten breakfast. I'm just to have a coffee

and get going for the day. We laugh about this, but Toto, I would say, is like the Arabian race

horse. He's quite techy, but put him on a starting line, tell him when to go and he has

performance like you can't believe and he's someone that can absorb so much pressure and

make it look easy. He really is very good at coping with big pressure and having broad shoulders

in moments where you need to have them. Whereas I would say I'm more the donkey that just never

gives up. You can load me up. You can put me on a really tough terrain and I will just keep going.

There's a lot of tenacity there and that's where I think we complement each other. He's always late.

I'm super organised, so he calls me the logistics manager of the family. That surprises me actually.

Yeah, because of the German heritage. Yeah, everyone pictures that straight clean cut arriving

on time. There's Greenwich time, there's Central European time and then there's Total Time and

it's always like 15-20 minutes after either of those. He's definitely not so good with his time

keeping. When you and Toto come back from a race, say Abu Dhabi 2021 or a situation,

something extreme pressure. Let's not go back to Abu Dhabi 2021. I try not to go back there.

But is that not just because of what happened on track, but is that because of off tracks? That

must have been super hard like dealing with that, the aftermath, right? Like the emotions.

You talk about you're the donkey that just keeps going and Toto can load himself up

with pressure, but is it moments like that that you learn that the most about yourself?

Definitely. I was so upset in Abu Dhabi and not because Max won. He was a deserving champion.

It's nothing against Max. It was the way it happened, the fact that Lewis was so deserving.

On that day, he was the better driver. He was winning that race.

So it really upset me, but Toto's really good about getting his emotions in check quite quickly.

And even when Lewis left for Ferrari, I got upset quite quickly as to how it was done,

but he said, we're going to be okay. We're going to be friends with Lewis and this is all going to

be okay. Just give it time. And he's really good at always seeing the bigger picture

and not allowing his emotions to overrun. I mean, you mentioned the throwing of the headphones.

There's also terror, Toto, where he can be really angry and really, I don't want to be the other

person on the table when he's in that mode, but he's pretty good at keeping the emotional side

in check. The reason I asked you about that race wasn't for you to get into what happened on track.

It genuinely was because I think people see you guys as such a power couple in Formula One.

There's so many people that if they're in their partner, both love racing, and we want to be those

guys. Do you ever have to tell each other it's time to switch it off when you get back? Because

otherwise, will you just become consumed by a moment like that? No, because we are pretty good.

I mean, what maybe surprises people, we are just a normal couple. I can sense when Toto's head is

full and he doesn't want to talk about racing, and he can sometimes come back from a tough weekend,

Jack and I are waiting for him, and we can sense that he doesn't want to talk about racing. He wants

to hear about our weekend or something completely different, and it would only be on a Tuesday,

Wednesday, that starts to come out how tough it was. But I think we're so in tune with each other,

and I promise you, our marriage is so much better than only talking about racing, but in the same

time, the mundane things that normal couples have to deal with, logistics, the family logistics,

but there's many topics that interest us outside of racing, but of course, racing is a topic that

we talk about as well. It consumes all people, all things, all tracks from all different backgrounds,

but I mentioned that statement, power couple, then you must have heard it a million times described.

It doesn't sit so easy with me. Why? I don't see us.

Is that because of the humble side? Do you feel awkward talking about that?

Like power couple, we're lucky that we both have a shared passion for racing, so we work in racing,

we're both very ambitious, we support each other, but this idea of a power couple just doesn't feel

like it fits us. Well, when someone rises to the top, we're seen as that by that wide audience,

not that core audience. Often others try and take them down. And in December 2023, the FIA,

Formula One's governing body, announced it was launching the investigation, I'm sure you've

had to answer a million times into the possible conflict of interest between yourself and Toto.

And on a tiny scale, I have to sometimes deal with, because I run multiple businesses, like,

oh God, I'm trying to get this one involved with this one, and sometimes I just feel like

piggy in the middle, and I'm just like, this would just be easier if you just both buggered off.

Like, how angry were you at what happened there? Like, how did you show that emotion,

like when you first found out that that had happened?

I think initially it wasn't anger, it was disbelief, because I mean, I hold myself to very

high standards. I would never put myself in a position where I'm sharing confidential information

but what confidential information was there? You know, what did F1 Academy have to do with

Toto running Mercedes and F1? It's a completely different organization than F1. So there was

disbelief, and then that turned into real anger when it actually wasn't a proper investigation.

And then all the team stood up and backed me.

Within two days.

And that was a moment that really, that shocked me but made me realize that, wow, it was

humbling in a way, but it also gave me the ignition to say, well, that's just not fair what happened.

You know, 600 articles were created online questioning my integrity from an investigation

that was never done, that was dropped immediately. I just felt that it wasn't right.

And you still have to then answer questions on it to this day because that embryo, that thing

was created. And I get the sense that you're potentially similar to me in the way that when

I find something, people like saying, what gets you the most angry in life? What makes you close

to like blood boiling, Ben? I say, when someone's being illogical and I can't understand why,

like when someone is doing something purely illogical and I can't make any sense of it

whatsoever, that almost makes me so furious. It's unbelievable. Is that almost similar to what

happened there that you just couldn't understand the why to that situation? Or did you understand the

why? It's not that I understood the why and something I often do in business is I try and put

myself in the other person's shoes and to think, okay, why? And you're completely right. For me,

there was no logic. And if there was a belief that something was wrong, we'll do an investigation.

And I'm completely fine with investigation happening because I'm so sure that there was nothing

wrong. But I was also able to quite quickly move on from it. But, you know, I decided to file a

criminal complaint. And that's a process that's ongoing. And sometimes I just think in life you

you have to stand up when you think something's not right. But to your point of people being illogical,

sometimes people just have different perspectives. And quite often when I hear also people's

opinions on F1 Academy, I have to think so interesting that you have such a different

viewpoint or a different standpoint. But it's quite often that we're shaped by our own experiences

by our own journeys. And some people are just sometimes on a completely different planet.

And you just have to accept that that's how it is. And obviously in the wider world now,

there's so much going on out there that I don't understand that I have to just

kind of distance myself from it. What's the number one thing a racer loves to do?

Something that involves competition. Winning. Yeah. Well, we don't, I don't always get to win

everything I do. But I definitely can turn any small thing, even a game of UNO with my son,

becomes a big tournament. And it's always about who can win in the end. So I think that competitive

nature is in us. And we always love to challenge ourselves. But this situation, does this apply

to that? That now that kind of worms was opened, not your doing. Do you feel the need that I must

win this? I must beat you people. You opened this kind of worms towards me and I'm going to win this.

No, interestingly, I take quite a pragmatic approach to it. It happened. I felt strongly

that I had to step up. But I don't feel I have to win at all costs. I just want accountability

and transparency. Would 18 year old Susie have handled it differently?

Yes, she would have been much more emotional. She would have gone mental.

She would have gone, yeah, she would have gone crazy. But no, I've, I've moved on from it.

The process is happening and it is what it is. But I'm not brought down by like 18 year old Susie

probably would have been. You actually amazed how much you've changed since 18 year old Susie?

Well, I guess life is a journey. We all are on this journey where our experiences add up. We

as we get older, I think you get more contentment, you get more self confidence, particularly,

I don't know if I can only speak as a woman. But I'm very different to that 18 year old girl,

but she's still there. Do you think things like running that formula E team, a real pivotal moment

if you talk about your leadership journey, do you think they're the moments that make you not flip

out and lose your stuff now? Learning leadership, because when you learn leadership, you often

learn to do the thing that you said with your emails and the drafts, which is to just

just wait, just tap the break pedal a little bit more than maybe you're used to doing

in life up to that point because you were very much on the other pedal.

I do think so, but I also think it's about the hard lessons along the way that teach you because

everyone thought that I would run to total for advice all the time.

But I had to find my own feet. I had to find my own management style, my own leadership style,

and I had to make my own mistakes because I think it's only during the mistakes and the

failures that you really get taught the lessons because somebody can tell you,

but it's only by doing that you're really gaining the experience. So I do think that those mistakes

that you make are important parts of the journey because that teaches you what you don't want to

do again. I've been very lucky to be surrounded by successful people and to be at dinners with

people I respect that run big companies. You're a sponge, you soak up, you see qualities that you

think, I really like that in that person, male or female. That's why when people tell me what

celebrities you look up to, the people I respect the most, sometimes you've never heard of them.

But I think in everyday people you meet, when you meet successful people,

there's traits that you can really admire and take back and force yourself to look at in your

own sense of where you can improve. Does it concern you that that situation happened with the FIA,

yet you have to work with the FIA with F1 Academy? I don't. F1 Academy is not an FIA championship.

I have zero contact with the FIA. I've never had contact with the FIA. I didn't even know that.

That's why it was even more absurd. I have nothing to do with the FIA.

Would you be able, with what went on to work with the FIA, for the sake of the F1 Academy,

if you had to? Of course. Business is business. If there was a decision taken by Stefano or F1 that

F1 Academy should be an FIA championship and that's for the greater good of the business,

absolutely, you move on. Business is business and I'm pretty good at not holding grudges and

being quite pragmatic. Do you believe the president of the FIA should still be in his role?

That's something I'd rather not get into because I don't have to deal with the FIA. I think that's

a complex situation and one that I'd rather not comment on. Put it in the drafts.

Yeah, maybe don't send that email.

Susie, thank you so much for coming on and talking about your journey to how you got to where you

are today because there's such a mix of different points and places and things and feelings and

changes and similarities and all kinds of bits that mix up in this recipe of life that gets to

where we are today. I want to say thank you so much for giving me an hour of your time in the back

of my van somewhere random in London. Thank you for having me.

That's been absolutely fabulous and if people want to get your book, I've also left a link in

the description to be able to do that. Thank you so much and if you do buy the book, I hope you

enjoy it but it's been a really enjoyable, I can't believe it was an hour, it went so fast.

If you enjoyed listening to Ben and I on the Road to Success podcast, then like.

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Susie Wolff Opens Up: The TRUTH about the FIA, F1 Academy & Toto Wolff behind the scenes

About this episode

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Silverstone

Formula E

APR

F1 Academy

W Series

PepsiCo

street circuits

global championship

F2

F3

F1

motorsport pyramid

F4 car

karting

Grand Prix

Ferrari

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G-Force

downforce

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