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This is episode 423 of Wheel Bearings. I am Sam Aboual-Sammet from Telemetry.

And I am Nicole Wakelin from Top Speed. And I am Roberto Balder from SAE International and

SAE International's Automotive Engineering podcast. There you go. Look at that. Look at that.

I'm doing my job. Look at that.

All the things. Go, Robbie.

Got a new episode coming this week.

What's the topic?

This week's topic is EV manufacturing. We talked to...

I talked to Hyundai, we talked to Voltaic, and we talked to Bosch. So...

The big three!

Can't wait to hear what they all have to say.

Oh no, I just broke something.

Wow.

Put that down. Yeah, twitchy.

I need a fidget spinner.

Well, Nicole, it looks like you've driven a thing or three.

Driven a thing or three. I know some of this is I just had so much and then I missed an episode.

I'm like, I just have a list of stuff I have to talk about.

Well, first of all, before we talk about what you drove, did you guys find a place for Rose's wedding?

We did. We have figured out the wedding. That was our mission last week.

And wedding location has been secured.

Giant check has been written.

Yay.

The wedding is all set to go. Yes.

And you saw when she graduated that all your problems were over.

I know, right? I thought tuition checks were the last big checks I was going to write.

I'm like, this is just the deposit?

Yes.

Yay.

But yes, we have found a spot for the wedding. So, yeah, it'll be lovely.

You're going to see Nicole's knit byline everywhere.

She's going to be cranking out stories like that.

Oh, I got to write 800 stories a day to pay for this wedding.

Anybody who will pay her a few shackles, you know.

Right. Anybody want to throw a couple of dollars to my way to write something, let me know.

Or, you know, you could just subscribe to the Wheelbanks Patreon.

Oh, yeah.

Throw a few dollars, Robbie and Nicole's way.

It'll go to the Rose Wedding Fund on my end.

Food for my animals is very expensive.

Well, there's that too.

Yes.

And music gear isn't cheap.

Yeah.

All right, Nicole, what did you drive?

Okay. Well, talk about what I drove to do the site visits for the wedding.

It was the F-150 Lightning, which I driven before.

Yeah. So, the fun thing was, so here's the fun thing.

So, I had them along for the ride and especially because he doesn't ride in a lot of press cars.

It was kind of neat to hear him like, what's going on here, right?

So, the thing, I had that and I had a loaner vehicle for some, for other reasons that was an SUV.

I have a Durango that's not a new Durango sitting in the driveway, not reviewing it just sitting there.

And I said, do you guys want to take the truck or you want to take the Durango?

I'm just reminding you that the truck is a bouncy little ride compared to just little Durango.

He's like, no, I want to take the truck.

I went over a speed bump slightly too fast and his head hit the top of the truck in the hand.

Boom! And now he's six, three, six, four.

And he's like, hey, I'm like, I gave you a choice, boy.

You could have been in the Durango.

Who chose the Lightning?

Yeah, but you know what, if you drove the Durango over that same speed bump at the same speed,

it probably would have been the same thing.

It might not have been significantly different than there was something else you were driving.

And like, it's not that it's unwieldy, but it's a big heavy truck, right?

So if you're on winding Hampshire back roads, it's like, whoa.

And he says something.

He's like, I know I can't say anything.

I had a choice.

I picked this.

But it was great.

I mean, we had four people in it and I really went for quite the drive because it was up in the White Mountains.

It was very easy to drive, very easy to park surprisingly and comfortable.

And I mean, we were in that car for hours.

We were driving around on that thing and it was really, really nice.

I had the Platinum, which is the fanciest of the fancy.

And it is $84,995.

$84,995.

It's a lot.

It's not an inexpensive truck.

On the other hand, six or 12 months ago, it was $93,000.

Yes.

So surprisingly, that's a bargain now is what Sam is saying.

Everything's relative.

And destination fee, you guys want to take a guess?

Ooh.

Destination fee on the Minroni or what it is right now?

Well, what it is, I Googled it right now.

So this is what it told me right now.

Okay.

You can guess what my source said.

Good luck.

18?

I'm assuming it's the same as all the other F-150s, which would put it at $25,95.

Robbie?

18, like a fool.

Oh, I said 18.

Okay, what I got was $21,95.

$21,95 is what came up when I searched.

Okay, so maybe they didn't increase that one yet.

Over the last couple of weeks, depending on the instant at which you look for the destination,

your source, whether you're looking at a Minroni or the OEM site or their media site,

which might not be actually weirdly as updated as a consumer site,

you're going to get a range of numbers, people.

Which is awful, right?

You could have anything from...

You could have a $5, $6, $7, $800 swing in this number.

Your charges will vary.

Yes.

So the Platinum, they're all dual-molder, they're all four-wheel drive.

The Platinum, there's three batteries.

There's a standard range, then two extended range.

No, there's only one extended range.

Well, it comes up with two.

It had a 123 kilowatt and a 131 kilowatt one.

When you look at the technical specs for the vehicle, it comes up with two different.

I was trying to figure out...

Yeah, I was a little thrown too, Sam, but it does show a 123 kilowatt extended-range battery,

a 131 kilowatt extended-range battery.

And I think it's a trim level thing.

The Pro and the Flash get the 123, and then the Platinum and the Lariat,

and I guess available on the Pro, is the 131.

Because previously, the standard range battery was like the 96 kilowatt.

This is 98 now.

Yeah, so it's 98 now, that's what...

Yeah, I think it was always 98.

But I'll have to check with Ford and see if they have another variant.

Well, I think it's because of that Flash thing.

Isn't the Flash like its own little amp?

Yeah, but usually, I don't think that they put a smaller or lower capacity battery in it.

That's what it has.

So unless their tech specs are wrong, because that's what I am literally looking at right now.

I mean, given the current state of the Ford media site,

I would not be the least bit surprised if the tech specs were wrong.

I have no idea where to find anything.

Exactly, so I am going with the official tech specs that I have pulled up

because of this exact confusion that I had to Sam.

And I'm looking at their official PDF at this very moment,

that has the three different...

I believe what you're reading, I'm just not sure.

I believe that's what's actually in the video.

I don't believe either of you.

We're just all liars, liars, liars, damn liars.

Ever since the Ford media...

I think our listeners...

Okay, so every automaker has a media site.

And they're not all good?

And these media sites are varying degrees of quality and helpfulness.

All we want is...

I want an updated spec sheet.

I want a page where we're like, oh, let's talk about the RAV4.

Okay, I want to go to that page and see everything about the RAV4.

And there's photos and maybe there's some B-roll.

And there's PDFs we can download for tech specs and various trim levels.

And that's it.

And somehow Ford decided nah.

They came up with this new site.

It is not easy to navigate.

It's complicated.

It took me more tries than it should have defined this goofy document.

Once it's there, it has all the stuff you need.

It's the finding it part.

You're like, nope, not there.

Nope, not there.

Nope, also not there.

Where would it be?

So, yeah.

It's like you're Lewis and Clark looking for Oregon.

You're trying to click on the right link.

Maybe I'll make it.

Some people are going to die on the way.

Right.

You might say, yeah, exactly.

Some people are going to die on the way.

Who knows?

So I had the Platinum.

The Platinum has, according to this, 131 kilowatt battery is what it has.

And that is an extended range battery.

And this is also the most powerful of the lot.

It is 580 horsepower.

That base battery, the standard range is 452.

They list the questionable middle range extended range battery is 536.

But I was confused, but this is what it says.

So I found the range came up about what we, like it seemed like it was about right for

what I was driving.

Mind you, I've got four people on the truck the whole time and we're in the White Mountains.

So there's some, it's an altitude thing.

So you have some big ups and big downs with the hills, but it seemed like it was pretty

good.

My only, my biggest complaint was, and I just have bad luck with charging you guys.

So we went to the first place to charge and the charger was out of order because we're

kind of north.

So it's not like you get charging banks where there's, you know, six, eight different places

you can plug in at one charging station was out of order.

Second one we went up to there was one working one out of order.

And the one that was working, there was a man, there was someone plugged in there already.

So I couldn't get it charged.

We had like 30 miles a range when we got home and I'm literally watching.

I'm like, I think we're going to be good.

I think we're going to be good.

Please don't get me stranded in Northern New Hampshire.

I think we're going to be good.

So we made it with like 30 something miles to spare because we did a lot of driving that

day.

So that, so I had a little, little range anxiety because the charging stations were refusing

to cooperate with my charging needs.

I did enjoy driving it though.

It's a nice truck, you know, it has a lot of power.

It moves, you know, when you have those EVs, they always have that sort of that instant

EV torque everybody talks about.

And this is no exception.

It's, it's a quick truck despite being a heavy truck.

It's nice to drive.

It was great on the highway.

I do find it a little, a little, um, rolly and twisty turning roads when you start getting

on side roads, which is where we were for part of the time.

Then it, I feel like the handling isn't quite to me, but I do love the platinum.

I feel like the, you know, it's, it's a lot of money.

It is not cheap, but it definitely feels like a luxury vehicle.

And you got like leather, everything, you got heated seats, you got heated, you know,

it has all the bells and whistles that you could possibly want.

And it has the table that folds down, which is an exclusive to the platinum trim, but

it has the table.

So when you, there's a button you push next to the gear shift, gear shift folds flat into

the center console, then the lid essentially on the center console that covers the storage

cubby folds out and you have a little table, um, which we use to eat lobster rolls, um,

in a parking lot.

I believe the official terminology for that table is the cookie table.

I call it the cookie table because I like to use cook.

They call it a work table, which is lame.

I call it a cookie table.

Burrito table.

Right.

Um, but yeah.

The cookie table, taco table.

This, this week it was the lobster table.

We had lobster rolls, um, which were fabulous right before the place we were going to is

closing for the season.

So we got in our one last lobster roll up on the sea coast in New Hampshire.

Uh, so, and it is great.

Like it was really the first time I've truly used it for me on putting cookies on it.

Um, but like we had like the bag open, I have everything open.

It is really just the perfect size for if you're going to be someone who's going to be

working and you're running around, you're having to eat lunch in your truck or something.

It's a great little size for having our food on.

So it worked out.

Uh, so I enjoyed, I mean, I really enjoy driving this.

I feel like, you know, the challenge with this truck or any EV that's a truck is if

you're really towing, if you're going to be towing, it's, it's tough because you lose a

lot of that range when you're towing.

So depending on whether towing is a priority for you or an occasional thing for you, choose

carefully between this and a straight up normal gas powered, um, F 150.

That would be my biggest reservation that it's, it's, it's a, it's a pricey little

bugger.

It's pricey, uh, but I did enjoy driving it.

I think it's a good vehicle.

I love how it looks.

Um, I like the lighting and stuff.

I like that there's a little American flag with the lightning bolt on the back.

That amuses me for no particular reason.

I love that little badge.

Um, yeah.

So overall, so that's, you know, F 150 lightning.

There weren't significant changes for, for, you know, coming up for 26.

It's kind of just cruising along doing its own thing.

So even though we're at the end of the 25 model year, you're not going to see huge

changes.

I don't think for 26, uh, but we'll have to see, we'll have to see what happens and

what does with pricing and all that kind of stuff.

They get a new trim.

I think S, I keep wanting to see STX.

STX.

I keep wanting to say STK, which is a stake place.

I'm like, that is not.

The STX is replacing the XLT.

The XLT and it's supposed to be like the more off-road one.

It gets like a locking, um, rear diff or E locking rear differential, um, some little

goodies and such off-road tires, I think.

So, uh, yeah, that's the F 150 lightning.

So that was my road tripping around New Hampshire car last week.

Yeah.

So that was one, then they put me in another giant Ford.

They put me in the Ford expedition tremor.

So it's just one giant Ford to another giant Ford.

Um, this weirdly was harder for me to drive.

I don't know why I found it more.

I drove it into Boston yesterday to meet somebody for brunch, like one does in their

giant expedition tremor.

And somehow like it just, I, every time I parked this, I felt like I had to park 18

times.

It was like, I could not get into parking space right the first time to save my life.

So I just...

Well, the thing is like 36 feet long.

It was, it was huge.

And the parking garages in Boston where A, you feel like you know the height of the car

is a fixed number and you know the height of the garage is a fixed number, but I can't

look up while I'm driving it all.

Cause I'm like, no, no, no, I'm going to take off the roof of this vehicle.

It felt so close.

There was a spot where they had like, you know, they'll put sometimes like insulation

around air vents or whatever in a garage and it gets a little frayed.

And it was like just the soft installations hanging down slightly and there were little

bits of strings and stuff.

And I...

You mean that asbestos probably?

That asbestos garbage.

It's, I'm like, that has got to be touching the top of this truck.

That has got to be done.

And I can't hear it cause it's just soft.

It was, it was a little disconcerting.

To airport parking.

Cause the whole time I'm like, ah, ah, ah, ah.

And the rest is there.

He's like, you know, you're fine.

There's enough room.

I'm like, I know Mr. Logic, but when you look up, it looks like I'm going to take out that

pipe.

So I did drive it and I did manage to park it in the narrowest parking spot in the parking

garage with two giant like support beams next to me.

So I had no little post.

I'm like, there's no room here.

But that was, it was nice to drive.

I mean, I, I enjoy driving it.

It's, it's big.

And this wasn't the max, the max, like the long wheelbase.

I just, good luck with that.

I, unless you live in like the middle of Nebraska and how you drive that anywhere.

But uniformly, and I was out with a couple different people with this this week, everybody

loves the screen setup.

How you have the one digital screen that is in front of you, but set back almost like

where you'd have a head up display, sort of his work kind of looks like it is on the

dashboard and the infotainment screen is, you know, front and center, but closer to everybody.

But two different people Russ and a friend of mine, we were driving and they both went

to reach the gear shift instead of the volume control because they're right next to each

other, sort of under the infotainment screen and the gear shift is spinning knob.

It's bigger.

It's much bigger.

The volume is a tiny knob, but they both reached for it, which was funny.

They're like, and I was backing up the one I was in reverse.

One girl, she hit it as I was like, why did the car just stop?

Cause she thought she was spinning the volume and she was spinning the gears.

Yeah.

Knocked it into neutral.

I had a moment of like, what did I just hit something?

Cause that's abrupt when you suddenly flip a car into neutral.

Um, so she did that.

And then Russ was like, why is this right next to each other?

Why are these this way?

And I think, well, that's, that's kind of funny.

Two different people did the same mistake.

One guy that's, you know, one Russ and one a young woman who's about like 25 or

something.

So it's not even an age thing.

Totally different people.

Same impulse was to reach for the wrong button.

I thought that was interesting.

Yeah.

I'm sure it's happened a lot of times all over the world.

I'm sure we're not the only ones.

We are not the only ones.

And the tremor is like the S X T.

I did it right.

STX.

Yes.

I love, uh, the expedition.

It gets, um, 10.6 inches of ground clearance.

It gets 33 inch, you know, off-road tires, there's skid plates.

It has like the trail turn assist when you want to do really tight turns, there's an

off-road and a rock crawl mode.

I want to know what human is doing any of that in a car this big.

I know humans.

I guess when your boss, you know, uh, goes on, goes to burn your car.

man and you have to go pick them up okay I just got a call what oh my god he's

on so much masculine right I gotta take their G wagon no no no I need to take

something it's not if it gets scratched it's not that big of a deal and you know

the G wagons on high-performance street tires you know and it's just gonna get

stuck in the mud there so it's gonna be stuck in two seconds this would not get

stuck in the mud this would get you out of the mud I think you would know based

on some of the mud I've seen the last two years pictures of the mud at Burning

Man I think even even the tremor everything gets stuck in everything is

stuck in the mud you need a tracks like tank tracks like tank tracks yeah modify

your expedition yeah so I mean so this is you know you're it is the offer a

version of this I feel like that some of those features you're probably not

doing the things that would require those features in an expedition but if

you are good for you I do like how it looks it is really roomy it is huge it's

a cavernous SUV it has the split tailgate that has a little drop I forget

what the word clamshell sorry couldn't think of the word where it lifts up as

the major portion there's a tiny little piece that flips down which I just love

that because in your groceries don't go rolling out of the car so it makes a

nice little pod for your stuff and so I like that and driving it it's fine it is

a 3.5 liter V6 and has a 10 speed auto and there's 440 horsepower 510 pound

feet of torque it goes you know it's big it goes it sounds like it goes it's one

of those big vehicles that when you hear the sound of it it it's not sports car

sound but it's that aggressive like get out of the way like I love the way it

sounds you match the gas getting on the highway it's just kind of it's not like

it's this fancy super crazy engine but it just sounds mean in a good way like

move it you and your tiny little thing get out of my way I'm gonna run you right

over so I did enjoy driving this aside from having to park it in the parking

garage at the proo down in Boston yesterday where I thought I was gonna die

but otherwise I enjoyed driving the expedition all right and what was the

other thing oh third thing wait did we do the pricing on the expedition oh I

just closed it shoot $2,000 it was it was 2000 what did you say $2,000 what are

you gonna say Sam 2595 so mine came up as 2095 which is not the same as the

lightning it's just its own little animal and I'm like what what the heck I don't

get it so basically you're gonna blow a couple thousand dollars on destination

folks somewhere in that that neighborhood let's see if I can get this to come back

up no I closed it no it's I'll find it so yeah so you're just you know you're

using a lot of you're gonna spend a lot on destination no matter what you're

gonna spend a couple thousand dollars wait let's see if I can get it it was here

we go it was 2095 is what I came up with and the trimmer trim came up at

78,035 well it on the Ford building price right now yes 2595 okay see so I

made this like two days ago and it was probably yeah so they probably just

changed it on Friday I don't know came up is 2095 yeah no I mean they've all

been changing this was what we talked about a couple weeks ago that you know

they're they're cranking up all these destination charges or they're hiding the

price increases it's a lot like we just think I know these are big vehicles but

like gosh 2500 26 that's like 26 that's like a price of like a random package you

know one sometime you want to like add I don't know heated seats or something or

the premium infotainment system or you could just have the car that's like the

destination charge on it now that's a little insane and it's not a Ford thing

it's an everybody thing yeah I mean one's doing it right Ram you know they

raised their destination charges on the trucks to the 2595 sometime in the last

couple of weeks the only one that hasn't so far is Toyota we're still at I

think they're still at 1995 which is a downright bargain under $2,000 at this

point go Toyota so yeah so those are the vehicles that I had the last couple

weeks I was all big Ford things Ford F-150 Lightning Ford Expedition trimmer I

feel like whatever I get next week has to be smaller because unless someone gives

me a Hummer there is nothing bigger well I don't know if I mentioned it here on

the show but there's somebody in my neighborhood who until about three weeks

ago had a Model Y parked in their driveway they have since gotten rid of

that vehicle and replaced it with another EV did they get a Hummer they did wow

kind of Hummer pickup wow I see them around I guess you're going for it you

gotta go with going all in if you want it I still maintain if you want the car no

matter what anybody thinks buy it if you like it makes you happy and you can

afford it knock yourself out it gets the only convertible EV you can get in

America that's no oh too yes yes I was thinking convertible pickup truck

because the gladiator if you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing

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that's shop.wheelbearings.media all right there you go you want a convertible boom

yeah what about the passport did you want to talk about that well that's more

of a drive I mean I can't talk about it now so that wasn't so much a review

vehicle that I had as it was a stole it was a program and I don't think I've

talked about this that the passport off-road drive that I did in the

Carolinas South Carolina North Carolina not yet

okay I lost track of my weeks I'm like I thought written down did I ever talk

about that so they invited me to do an off-road drive in the passport and it

wasn't just like random place that they picked they had it in an off-road park

in the Carolinas that their engineers actually use for testing it's not just

Hondas lots of other companies have used it in fact he mentioned seeing other

OEMs out there and people even just use it as a recreational thing but it's this

huge area lots of technical terrain that you can cover and they've been using

that the engineers there for all sorts of testing so they took us out there and

this is a cool part it wasn't just like guys who know how to drive who were

who were spotting us nothing it was the engineers like the engineers ran this

program which was like the coolest thing ever because they got so excited about

little details it's like I design this this tow hook this tow hooks mine like

they were so excited about the things they did and they really really knew it

so there wasn't there wasn't a single question you could ask them about the

vehicle that they couldn't answer and they also as we were out there driving it

because they have driven some of these many of these trails because they have

designed this vehicle they know exactly how hard you can push this and that was

sort of the point of the program was to show that the passport is now off-road

there is an off-road capable passport it's not just off-road in name only and

they took us out there and they proved it they took us on some really technical

trails it required spotting in places and then they did this thing that was

absolutely terrifying so they said that instead of having somebody spot you you

had your drive partner spot you they wanted you to understand what it was

like to just drive off-road in the passport and how you would learn to

spot somebody in the trail sport trim which is their fancy trim for off-roading

and you had to spot and I'm like I've never spotted anybody driving like that

in my life and I had an engineer kind of hover behind you so I told the guy to go

left and it's like you're gonna kill him go right he would have said that but it

was still this incredible experience trying to help spot these people through

like really tricky stuff and there was a lot of times were a lot of times when it

was rocky enough that if you didn't take the right line it wasn't like you were

damaging the car so much although you could have it was nope you're not going

anywhere because now you've got yourself on rocks that aren't gonna let you do it

and they had us do this one really technical route and they had us use the

off-road mode and it figured it out and we get through it then they had one guy

what journalist they made him made him asked him he volunteered to drive it not

in the off-road mode to just drive it straight up and the difference between

when you were when you were telling the car I'm off-road and I want to drive

off-road and letting it think it was on the highway was dramatic he still got

through it but it was a lot more work but I was genuinely impressed with this

like it's funny because there's so many vehicles that they say oh that can go

off-road that's our off-road trip and you're like other than having orange

accents there is nothing about this that is off-road right like red is the

color of fast orange is the color of off-road and just because you made it

orange made orange tow hooks or put orange accents on it does not guarantee

capability this was really capable I thoroughly enjoyed this drive and it

was two full days of driving it wasn't a three-day drive program it was four and

the first day we even spent a day in the classroom like at little thing

classroom I say little tiny garage thing that served as a classroom where they

went through like we're gonna teach you as if you don't know we're gonna teach

you how to drive off-road we're gonna teach you what these technical things

mean they even had a little tiny Lego version just show you how the

differential works like they were all playing with this little Lego thing that

they made and what's even cooler so they started doing this as a like the

engineers started doing this then they started training more engineers then

they start you know they're testing they're training people who aren't

anywhere near engineering in Honda because they feel like in order for

people to understand what their vehicles do and why they need certain

features it's important for an executive to occasionally get out there and

drive it see what it means to drive a trail sport off-road so they have people

from all sort of different walks of life within the Fonda who were taking this

same little course only theirs is more in-depth because they have more time for

it to learn what the vehicles can do and also why certain features are

important so it also serves as like a development thing and almost like

internally for the engineers to sell the stuff to the product guys that they

want to do and why like if we had this it would do that and see what it does

off-road so it was a really fascinating experience and I can you know I already

thought the trail sport was surprisingly capable now it's even more so like I

was I was genuinely shocked by how much this could handle how well it drove the

technical stuff that it could manage and yeah because I don't think I know they

have a long history but I think of Honda more performance see than off-road and

this changed that perception for me I definitely think like they're there

they're really going after it they're going at it and they're not just doing

it with orange trim they're doing it with a serious plan and attitude so yeah I

took the Honda passport trail sport off-roading conditions that were truly

serious and the thing was a champ yeah I was just watching right now the guys at

TFL have a passport trail sport on a long-term loan from Honda for three

months and so they've been doing some off-road stuff with it and I was watching

something the other day yeah the the one flaw in the in the passport yeah cuz

it you know the the the trail sport never learned the love it's got skid plates

it's got the all-terrain tires you know it's got the IVTM 4 system on the rear

axle that acts like a locker the problem is it doesn't have enough ground clearance

it's it doesn't have huge ground clearance so you're right so if you're

going to crawl over something like because I want to say it's it's it's

light off-roading only in the sense that it's not made to crawl over giant rocks

and such yeah or things that are overly but you can still handle it's not I but

I don't want it's like a medium off-roader and it's the ground clearance

that is what holds it back you're absolutely right but I so if you're

going over really like tall rocks big rocks big rocks I guess or incredibly

uneven terrain you have to pick your line very very carefully to make sure that

you are so that you don't bottom it out so you do have to really learn to pick

your line but I think people who are doing that like if when you're off-roading

and if you're doing more technical stuff if you're really truly technical if

you're really truly an expert you're gonna be able to look and say like that's

the line I need to take or I'm not I can't hit that like that's too much I

can't handle that but it does handle like I think for the average person far

more than other off-road vehicles yeah but just you know for for comparison the

passport has 8.3 inches of ground clearance yeah a Subaru Crosstrak base

Crosstrak has 8.7 and the wilderness is 9.3 so it's got you know the will

Crosstrak wilderness has got a full extra inch of ground clearance compared to

the passport yeah the ground clearance is it's it's it's weak point but it

wasn't such a weak point that I think for the for me for the person who's

typically getting this for the family who's going off-roading and once just

push it a little bit further than they might generally if you're a hardcore

off-roader you're not going for either of these really you know what I mean you're

going for something you're gonna buy a Bronco or you're gonna buy a Bronco yeah

but in terms of the sort of medium off-roader yeah it's yeah I mean not to

take away you know because I mean when we drove at Puerto Rico earlier yeah you

know it on you know some muddy trails and things like that you know through

deep woods it did great it did surprisingly well you just have to be

wary of you know going over any obstacles that are too large and I you

know and I learned something neat I don't know if they talked about this when

we were in Puerto Rico Sam but they talk about how the recovery hooks on the

front of the vehicle are designed the guy who designed them was there okay the

engineer and they had all these challenges like there's all challenges

with where you put recovery hooks because they have to be strong enough to

pull a vehicle out they can't like rip apart the car they have to be attached

in certain spots but they also have to be able in addition to handling that you

know torque from towing the vehicle out of something or pulling another vehicle

out if you're in an accident you have to make sure that they don't send the the

energy from that accident directly into the passengers and hurt people or hurt a

pass or hurt a pedestrian if you had a pedestrian so there's this balance to be

struck between designing these and he said they Honda has a patent on this so

they are more than capable of being when you're pulling to pull you to be used to

pull the passport out of a tough spot or to be used to tab the passport tow

somebody else out of a tough spot but when the impact is the when it's an

impact if it's the right impact they actually collapse so that they collapse

in such a way that they distribute the force into the vehicle so it won't damn

hurt the people inside and also in terms of pedestrian thing it's less likely to

hurt pedestrians and plowing to people so they have this patented like

collapsible recovery hooks on the front of the vehicle which I thought were

kind of cool I'd never seen that and he said no this particular thing is

patented by Honda he's like I did this I thought that was kind of cool yeah I

thought it was neat all right well I drove the 2025 let me double check the

model year yes it was a 2025 BMW 228 X-Drive Grand Coupe so so this is the

four-door two-series from from BMW and if you look at two series on the BMW

website you'll find two very distinctly different cars the four-door that the

Grand Coupe is based on a transverse engine you know front-wheel drive

platform although it's available with all-wheel drive which is what this one was

X-Drive so this is the same same platform that they use for the mini

Countryman and I think even for the regular minis now so you know it's

it's a very different platform and then there's the two-series Coupe which is a

rear-drive you know more traditional BMW longitudinal engine you know that's what

you get with the M2 and I think there's a regular two-series Coupe as well that's

that's a fundamentally different car so the the 228 Grand Coupe you know

four-door compact four-door I really like the size I think it's you know for me

personally I think it's you know it's a good sized car it's pretty similar in

size to you know if you think of like an E36 three-series so like an early 90s

three-series you know it's comparable to that size because obviously you know the

three-series has gotten a lot bigger over the years as is everything else so I

like the size of the 228 the the engine the only engine they offer in here in

the US is a 2 liter four-cylinder turbo 241 horsepower and with the X-Drive with

the all-wheel drive it'll do zero to 16 about 5.8 seconds the front-wheel drive

version takes about 6.1 because it doesn't have enough grip to get the

power down and but the thing with the interior on this thing you can definitely

see that the direction that BMW has been shifting in the last couple of years

with some of their newer models moving more and more away from physical

controls towards various touch interfaces it still has manual vents so

that's good that is that is acceptable but things like the traditional iDrive

rotary knob on the console that's gone you've got the the shifter is like a

little it's an electronic shifter it's basically just a little toggle switch

that you flip forward or back to go to reverse or drive and there's a button for

park and then the volume control is like a roller to the right of that that's in

the cluster and you can roll it to adjust the volume and then most

everything else is in the touch interface which means you know all your

climate controls and everything are in the touch in the touch screen most of

that stuff is persistent and stays on the screen so it doesn't go away when

you're you know when you've got a media player up or your navigation or anything

like that so it's there all the time but you do have to look at it to hit the

touch targets which you know not great but you know as they say you can also

use voice controls to adjust things like temperature and fan speed and then you

can just reach out to grab the the little things for the for the vents for

the directional control for the vents I you know I actually genuinely liked

driving the car you know I think I think the performance is is great you know

under 6 seconds 0 to 60 is more than adequate for you know for any daily

driving the backseat you know is a little on the tight side you know 510 511

depending on when you measure me and I can just fit behind myself are you taller

like when you're further away from the earth's core no like in the morning I

mean if you measure if you measure your height when you first get up in the

morning assuming you sleep horizontally you tend to be a little bit taller in

the morning than you are at the end of the day yeah is that real is that true

yeah no it's absolutely true usually like less than half an inch but as your

bones and yeah especially as you get older to you know any way weight of

humanity well there's that too you know the crushing weight of living in 2025

anyway so I can just fit behind myself in the backseat you know and I have the

driver's seat set for my height you know so you can you can get for Robbie would

not be comfortable sitting behind me Russ would probably not be comfortable

sitting behind you Nicole but you know if you've got people of median height

typical median heights you could have four adults in here without too much

difficulty at least for shorter drives the trunk is decent sized trunk but you

know as is the case with most sedans that have a fastback roof line the trunk

opening itself is small you know given the shape of this thing I would have

preferred if they made it a hatchback because then you have a nice big trunk

opening and if you want to carry bigger stuff you can fold the back seats down

you can get stuff in there but you know it's it handles and drives really well

it was it was fun to drive steering steering feel is not as good as an

E36 BMW but it's not bad it's it's you know BMW's gotten a lot better with their

electric power steering systems over the years this one had the M Sport package

which means it's got the adaptive M suspension adaptive dampers anthracite

headliner whatever the hell anthracite is it's got an M steering wheel M logos

all over the place you know has a driver assistance package with adaptive

cruise and active driving assistant pro that at speeds below 30 miles an hour if

you're in traffic you know traffic jam on the highway you can go hands off for

a while and then you know it's got all the all the other usual stuff that you

expect to find in a more premium vehicle you know in 2025 so you get you know the

nice leather seats and digital key if you want to use that with ultra wideband

what else heated front heated and cooled front seats actually no sorry not

cool just heated front seats it was it was nicely equipped the 28x drive starts

at $41,600 if you can go with all with front wheel drive you can save about

$2,000 starts at $39,600 bottom line price on this one fifty thousand eight

hundred and twenty five dollars guesses on the destination charge what'd you say

Robbie 1200 Robbie gets it 1175 go Robbie the the 228x drive is rated at 30

miles per gallon combined 26 city 38 highway I got about 33 so did pretty

good on that it's a nice car and you know I like that like the colors is dark

blue color the tanzanite blue two metallic so it's not tanzanite blue one

but tanzanite blue two two hands I blew one pride pride your people mad with

desire I guess it's a beautiful it's a good looking call so that's the the

BMW 228x drive grand coupé all right let's get into some of the stories of the

week first off Toyota there was an event in in Phoenix this week that we will

talk about next time because it's still under embargo but one of the comments

came out talking about you on the new Toyota RAV4 the 2026 Toyota RAV4 they

have a new trim level called GR Sport in the past the RAV4 had a TRD trim level

or TRD pro trim level and they've had you know TRD trims on the cars like the

Camry but Toyota is shifting direction a little bit with their branding and so

now going forward the TRD branding is going to be exclusive for basically for

body-on-frame vehicles so for trucks and SUVs like the Land Cruiser and the

Forerunner those will have be available with TRD or TRD off-road or TRD pro trim

levels all the cars and crossovers the worst three letters to put on your car

but I know all the cars and crossovers will have some variation of GR if they

have a sporty trim so the the the new RAV4 has a GR Sport trim level and there

will presumably on other cars in the you know presumably in like on the Camry and

things like that they'll add a GR Sport there as well the sports cars have

already been branded as GR for the last several years anyway the Supra was

technically was a GR Supra you get the the Corolla GR and the GR86 so now

they're just spreading that out to other non-body-on-frame vehicles make sense

okay well I mean there's a logic to it they've got a plan so okay we'll get used

to it yeah plan so back back in the spring Stalantis showed they revealed

the next generation Jeep Compass and they started production of this thing in

Italy last spring for the European market but there was some question about

North America because the launch of this thing or the debut of this new compact

crossover coincided with the implementation of all kinds of tariffs

on vehicles built in places like Mexico and Canada and everywhere else in the

world and Stalantis's plan had been to that they you know they were in the

process of retooling their Brampton Ontario assembly plant which used to

build the old charger and Challenger and Chrysler 300 and they were retooling

that to build the the new Compass well once the tariffs hit

plan has hit pause on that plan and they stopped they stopped all the work on the

Brampton plant and it was unclear what Stalantis's plan was for the new Compass

you know were they gonna build it were they gonna launch it at all in North

America but you know where's they're gonna come from and this week they

Stalantis made a big announcement that they're investing $13 billion in US

production that's a lot where does Stalantis have $13 billion that's my

first I have no idea that's a good question how long wait wait wait what's

the timeline 13 billion over the next four years 13 billion dollars next four

years adding more than 5,000 jobs at new plants in Illinois Ohio Michigan and

Indiana the largest investment the company is 100 year history two new two

new G vehicles in Illinois plan to do the new G vehicles so the the Belvedere

Illinois plant which has been idle since 2023 when they ended production of the

old Cherokee starting in 2027 will be building the new Cherokee which currently

is being produced in Mexico and also the Compass those are both gonna move to

Illinois for the US market and the Belvedere plant was originally slated to

build new midsize Ram pickup truck which still doesn't exist that is instead

it's going to be built in Toledo alongside the Wrangler and the gladiator

okay Wrangler gladiator new midsize pickup yep launch timing 2028 wait for the

midsize pickup yes 2028 yeah yeah it's you know this is what we said you know

when the whole terrace thing starts these these changes don't aren't gonna

happen over you're not gonna shift production around you know in six

weeks or 25 that's three years and it's not like Stellantis is dragging its

heels here these are big decisions this is not easy to reverse big swing for

Stellantis a company is doing great financially right well all of this

happened maybe I know they're trying yeah okay so the midsize truck is gonna

be coming out of Toledo and then the Warren Michigan plant that currently

produces the Wagoneer the Jeep Wagoneer is going to add another full-size SUV that

will be available with combustion engines and also the E rev power train that

we talked about last week that's going into the Wagoneer the Grand Wagoneer in

the spring and also in the RAM the RAM rev which as it's now called so we don't

know which brand this new full-size SUV is gonna carry is it gonna be a RAM or is

it gonna be a Dodge it's just gonna be called the Hemi

get rid of the RAM name just say the Hemi RAM Hemi RAM truck and then wait

there's and it says in that Michigan thing there's also 130 million bucks to

make the Detroit assembly complex Jefferson produce the next gen Dodge

Durango but it's production in 2029 yeah the Durango been the Durango when was the

last time the Durango got the Durango debuted in 2011

oh my god yeah it's gonna it's gonna be just old enough to vote and then it'll be

like I because I have I have a Durango in my driver right now because I have a

loner vehicle for my car and it's it feel I like the Durango I'm like man this

feels old it's not it's probably a rental car that's maybe I don't know a year

old or something yeah it's based on the platform of the previous generation

grand Cherokee because built in the same plant the Jefferson plant and yeah so

yeah so they're gonna finally launch the next generation Durango in 2029 a ride

Durango fans and then one one last thing is the Kokomo Indiana engine plant

currently produces can't remember what engine they produce there now sorry he's

like I don't know make some engine thing anyway it produces an engine yeah

they produce some engine there they're gonna be producing the what is referred

to in this press release as the all-new GME T4 EVO engine so the current GME

engine is the 2-liter turbo that's in a bunch of Stellantis products including

the the Wrangler plug-in hybrid that you have Nicole yes so that's there's

going to be this GME GME stands for global medium engine so what they're

referring to in this release is GME T4 EVO is gonna be what's the T global

turbo and turbo oh turbo thank you and we'll we'll have more to say about this

one next week EVO stands for Lancer they're gonna start making a Lancer the

cheap Lancer if the BC's like oh yeah if you want to buy the right so here's you

know here's some 15 year old designs all right we're good with that you have you

seen last Lancer I think did come out after the current Durango so did it

really believe so yeah so 13 billion dollars all together across all these

plants to produce these various vehicles and engines and the big question is you

know what kind of shape is Stellantis going to be in by the time you set the

market what was the latest 2029 was the latest yeah the Durango is the last one

so it's right yeah for four year timeline over the four years I will be

interested to see how this comes together show the world that you're doing

something yeah the engine the engine is actually going to launch production in

2026 the the the Durango is 29 the the big SUV is 20 27 or 28 see so they've

staggered it out though over the next four years it's all kind of staggered

a little bit here a little bit there yeah which makes sense so they get a little

bit and they keep going get a little bit and keep going yeah so it's a good plan

I hope they can hit it I I'm nervous personally and to say Philly's a lot

over there although you know now you know the the government of Ontario is

going after Stellantis because they gave them a whole bunch of money to help pay

for the retooling of the Brampton plant and now there's no plan for that plant

there's nothing that's going to be built there so you gotta give all that money

back yeah what money that they've budgeted is

back to the province of Ontario disclosed amount for Canada

and you didn't do the thing maybe maybe they will sell that plant to oh maybe a

Chinese automaker it could happen BYD there's an empty factory waiting for you

no kidding it's gonna be keep getting bigger and bigger all over the place yeah

so yeah you made me a PYG the Michael Jackson

yeah yeah that's why thanks for that little flashback there Robbie thank you

I'm old let's finish up one more thing with Stellantis before we move on the

alpha male to Nali getting a refresh for model year 2026 to what do you think of

this this new face looks like an alpha male is it significantly changed I

guess that's a little bit it's a pretty good change to it yeah I like that what

are those like on the sides of the little triangle what are the little venti

bits there's a little like rectangular bits oh to the to the left and right of

the triangle yeah to the left and right of the what's that called shield I think

they call the shield yeah what are those little bits it's a good question those

bits are kind of interesting that's where you stick your sandwiches I know it

holds like holds for everyone in the car I don't just like it quiz nose you can

toast your sandwiches with your new to know yeah okay I just downloaded the

image I'm zoom it's just some extra little slots for air flow okay just air

flow I can't look how it looks it's got a slightly more aggressive look than the

current one yeah I love the wheels the wheels are cool wheels don't they have

wheels very close to that already on unlike the yeah yeah but yeah it's it's

an evolution of the kind of pocket wheels that they've had on other models

for a while now so we aren't gonna get exactly this this is the European model

and it's the the one they have here's a 2026 alpha real Romeo to know a sports

special yeah so I don't know which trim levels we're gonna get here yeah but I

mean this the styling is what we will get it's gonna be key yeah it looks good I

think they did a nice job looks really good and and on the alpha male USA site

that's that's the the the the one that they're showing that they're showing so

it'll be pretty dang close if not that yeah the current tenali has a has a

wheel design with five five pockets yeah this is three yeah so it's a little bit

more dramatic because you really see those little circles and one other big

change for the 2026 tenali is the no more plug-in hybrid oh they got rid of

the P have yeah it's just gonna be the two-liter turbo interesting I don't think

they sell enough of those in this country do you have anything the tenali in

general yeah I like the tenali I just don't think the tenali actually sells

better than the the Dodge Hornet does really yeah maybe I mean I think people

don't like the Hornet because like not not journalists people but regular people

because it doesn't fit the Gerrard of Dodge like I remember them talking about

it when they first came out with it it was like we know to give people who want

a slightly kinder gentler version of Dodge we want to be a part of the Dodge

brotherhood and talk about it appealing to women and blah blah blah I'm like I

don't think anybody wants that I don't think that's exactly what your Dodge

person is going for but I like it I like them both I like I mean they're

essentially the same car but say it has a hammy in it what the engine is just

to get me in a tenali I would drive the heck out of the hornet just just

everything cast with a with a hammy logo on it done yeah so so the Hornet is

still outselling the tenali but the Hornet so far through September sold

8486 units which is down 45% from last year wow and the tenali sold 2109

units which is only down 23% from last year yeah I don't yeah yeah I guess it

was more than one power train 21 that yeah that's not a lot of vehicles wise

wise in nine months trains yeah yeah that's crazy that the car only has like

22 just gonna sell maybe maybe maybe 2,500 over the year and they're like hey

we're gonna make a new one to put it in the United States I'm like is that the

best choice for your money right now I keep waiting to see what they're gonna

do with and that's again I like their brains yeah I keep waiting to see what

they're gonna do with your brands how much they're gonna keep and if they're

ever gonna pare down and say like you don't need these vehicles and these

but it just seems we are 2100 units you know well you know maybe maybe this new

full-size SUV they're gonna build in Detroit maybe that'll actually be a

Chrysler instead of a Dodge or around okay because all day for Chrysler is the

Pacifica yeah that's right I mean if you're gonna keep the brand around you

gotta do something you gotta do more than one vehicle I mean technically they

don't but I mean bring back the Dodge Magnum yeah I would love to see the Magnum

back but well we're not gonna get maybe a Magnum based on the the current

charger yeah we've solved all of Stellantis's problems just now we've

solved okay stop stop the good but no one's buying it to Nali and bring back

and bring back a Magnum brand every aim it every engine I have me and you just

just pipe it into the you know the sound that's all you need you just need the

sound put the the fratsonic exhaust on everything and but make the sound be

exactly like a hammy exactly don't make it some super futuristic you sound like

the Jetsons make it at a little you know haptic feedback thing on the engine

on one of the engine mounts to make it vibrate just like a hammy there you go

yeah so it sounds and feels like a hammy you know yeah so what if it doesn't

go as fast the only reason people want the hammy is because the way it sounds

and feels and branding yeah and it sounds cool what's in your car I get a

hammy yeah it just sounds cool and you know technically you know all these four

and six cylinder engines are hammies because you know they've got sort of

hemispherical combustion chambers and that's what hemmy stands for so yeah

just call it a hemmy there we go problem so hemmy all the things

he's gonna change his first name to hemmy hemmy all the things

all right let's see oh the Kia Tasman this this pickup truck this midsize pickup

truck that Kia launched last year in Australia with really interesting

styling what do you think of the Tasman I really kind of liked how the Tasman

looked I thought it was good to do okay I thought it was this funky little truck

and I'm this story makes me sad funky little truck so they launched it in

Australia it's not selling real well price cut is saying they're doing price

cuts and let's see what was there it said they were trying to sell 10,000 units

I'm scanning through the story to say what they're up to right now since

delivery started in June they sold fewer than 2,500 2,500 and they were aiming for

10,000 that's more than a tenali though I know oh god the Tasman did you guys you

liked it Robbie did you like how it looked I liked it I like it's weird

but I think it's maybe too weird even for the fine people of Australia yeah come

on Australia this is a cool little truck so they were also close to the sun

they were there were also planning an SUV based on the Tasman but now they

are reconsidering that plan if the SUV looks like what's what's in this photo

here I I would probably take that over the Tasman myself is that a real photo

I don't know I think it's a no it has some it has some rendering name under

there so it's some imagined version of it I like the test I mean when it first

came out remember people were like oh be so cool if we got that here in the US

they won't give it to us because we can't have nice things well apparently

neither can Australia because they're not buying it they'll probably just redesign

it remember the the the Subaru was a Subaru with the horrible front end and

then they threw that front oh you know what I'm talking about the Tribeca the

Tribeca and then they threw it on the Impreza and then the Impreza like it

was that for like a week and then everyone's like no super psych okay sorry

our bad let us fix that he'll probably do the same thing with this truck I'm sad

I just like this little truck I thought it was cool I thought it was cool it's

definitely different it's different well can have that has those storage boxes

above the wheel arches yeah you can put all your sandwiches in there and

burritos I like different I like the creativity in car design and this has

some creativity to it boo hiss I'm bad I'm sad Lamborghini the 2023 Monterey

car week they showed a concept called the Lenzador which was a four-door GT was

gonna be there their first electric vehicle yeah they've they've shifted

position and they decided that they're not gonna do EVs just yet

whoop whoop I'm shocked I tell you shocked these high-end EVs just aren't

selling and so Lamborghini has shifted to they're gonna keep building V12's and

V8's and they're gonna put a hybrid powertrain in the Lenzador so basically

the same system that's in the the new Temerario which is the replacement for

the Gallardo so I don't think anyone shocked by this everybody's going away

from pure EVs if they haven't gotten it and they're like wait no we're gonna do

a hybrid hold up if you have a lower volume brands yeah volume brand it's I

talked to to Winkleman like I think at that at that Monterey car week and he's

talking about he's like we don't even know what the questions we're gonna be

asking or what's gonna be happening in five years when it comes to this it's

true yeah and then I think that same day I talked to not Bentley Bugatti he's

like we don't even make enough cars for this to be and the people who buy our

cars like they don't they drive like 18 miles on average yeah I mean Bugatti

makes about 50 cars a year yeah and those some of those people they never

even even even if a Bugatti put out huge huge amounts of emissions and you know

used huge amounts of fuel which it does you know they don't make enough of them

for it to actually have any real impact one way or the other yeah it's like

getting mad at your neighbor for not recycling while like the Pepsi company's

down the street like burning coal to make soda like alright hold on let's get a

little let's get a little perspective here yeah I mean they don't you know

outside of the the the Uris they don't sell a lot of cars the Uris is like

they're you know that pays for everything now over there Lamborghini yeah

kind of like the Cayenne and Macan do for Porsche exactly but yeah you know I

yeah it's it's not unexpected especially you know for these little volume like

super car makers I mean and they want to have the the hybrid system so they can

drive into city centers in Europe well that's right yeah you have to yeah so

you can you can geofence it so it keeps the battery charged up you know so as

you get into these urban centers it just automatically switches over to electric

mode which is nice especially when you live in the city all right okay so

Nicole when you had the Volvo EX30 a couple weeks back did you have any

issues with unlocking it I had some challenge yes there were some times when

it would you have the little key card thing and it was like no I'm like hello

and I got it to work every time but yeah it's not it was not seamless let's let's

put it that way it was not seamless yeah I had the same problem with the with the

EX30 you know sometimes you know normally you know if you've got a key fob you

just leave it in your pocket or your purse or wherever and you know you walk

up to the car and it recognizes it and it unlocks with the with that key card on

the EX30 sometimes it would unlock sometimes I'd have to go reaching into

my pocket pull this thing out tap it on the B pillar and you know most of the

time that unlocked it sometimes you have to do it more than once so apparently

Volvo is recon and they've got the same thing on the EX90 as well apparently

they are reconsidering that plan to eliminate traditional key fobs and

bring those back because they're just more reliable I mean some things work

because they work you know you don't have to reinvent everything I feel like

this is a case that don't reinvent things that don't need to be reinvented

what about traditional metal keys would you like to go back to those I mean I'm

okay with that I'd be okay with just a good old-fashioned metal key having to

insert that you know every time to unlock the doors and you walk up your

grab in the handle anyway you just put your key and you open it unless almost

one fell swoop well if you're running from a murderer well you know what then

that's that's when that the key run very fast or just your friends are slower

than you just pushing the button you're like I know you don't have to be the

fastest when you're being chased by just don't want to be the slowest one you

just need to be the slowest make sure your friends are not very fit and they

all run slower you don't need to be faster than the bear just faster than

your friends exactly well Porsche has decided even though some of their

customers actually have been asking for metal keys for their for their new

Porsches they're not going to bring back keys but they are going to keep key fobs

and they're going to keep start stop buttons power buttons they're not

getting away from that all right that's that's good enough okay I just want to

start and stop button I know people like oh you get out of the car oh it's great

I'm like no it's not it's not that great I want to push the button because I get

out of the car and I'd like oh I gotta get back in the other cars all closed now

it's turned off it's you know you know I want to listen to the stereo while

I'm washing my car psych no you don't know you can't yeah I mean with a lot of

EVs if they don't have a stop start button you know when you get out of the

car as soon as you get up out of the driver's seat it that shuts down for

the Mercedes those that I don't know one of their testing facilities in Germany

or somewhere I don't even remember it doesn't matter and in order to keep the

car on between people driving it they had a little like for the seatbelt they

had a little thing where you can plug it in it was just a little insert it was just

the insert yeah it was just the insert for the seatbelt to keep it on so you

could get out and the next person get in so they turn so the car wouldn't keep

cycling on and off the whole time geez it was a test car I like oh I

need to get one of these so when I'm doing photographs yeah I know cuz I want

the lights on like yeah you know yeah exactly you know that it always looks

better when the lights are on when you when you're taking photos of the car

and you get out of these cars it's like you got maybe 15 seconds before the

lights shut off that's not good but yeah so GM on their EVs they do have you

can go into the menu and there's a thing where you can have it leave the car on

for 60 minutes when you get out so we'll stay powered up for 60 minutes so if

you're doing stuff like that if you're jumping in and out you know if you're

moving the cars around you know it's not doesn't have to reboot every time but

that's not the that's not the default but I also just put a button turn the car

on port Porsches keeping the buttons they're keeping the key fobs they're not

going all in on on these key cards all right good job Porsche yeah exactly if

we could just well Tom got one he got a used Tom Tom

vlogging no shoot who got one someone got someone bought a used icon was that

I think that was Malogny wasn't it

look at that real-time I think it was EV I think I think I saw a video you know I

haven't watched it yet that he just posted recently with a tycon

no it was silence it's Volk how do you say Tom's name oh oh Tom Volk Tom Volk

oh okay I'm sorry Tom he friends with Tom I don't know how to say but damn last

night we talked about it at some thing and I was super excited for him and so

far he's having a great time not bad because they're because the prices like

drop like they're like they're the only portion that depreciates yeah but

they're it's crazy how how wonderful that car is though it's so weird like the

price drops as much as it does and in relation to the fact that it's an

amazing car I love the tycon so much and so yeah well yeah unfortunately or

fortunately depending on if you're selling or buying yeah you're me you're

yeah that's true for for most EVs you know is that you know that the

depreciation has been huge on those you know earlier the summer you know we

bought a used two-year-old key EV6 you know for less than half of its original

sticker price and unfortunately a week and a half ago some guy ran a red light

hit the car my wife was driving home and so that car is now totaled but

fortunately our insurance company has been very good about processing that

very quickly and got got us a payment this week and one option if you are if

you are getting car insurance if the insurance company offers you like a one

better option on your insurance definitely consider taking it yeah

because what basically what it means is that you know whatever they value your

car at you know if it gets totaled they will then give you extra to get like one

model your newer or you know something like that you know one one trim level

up and you know I got that on our insurance from Liberty Mutual it was

like I think it's like $1.20 a month extra so it paid us paid out you know more than

what we paid on the other car that we had for three months and so I went to

Chicago yesterday and bought another yacht blue EV6 2023 model with fewer miles

on it an all-wheel drive and I only ended up paying an extra thousand dollars

less than less than a thousand dollars more than I paid for the for the other

one for the rear wheel drive one there you go so get yourself a used EV put

your life in danger by hoping that someone will run a red light and then

you'll get a better one no you don't you don't want that last part no but you

can definitely get some fantastic deals on used EVs so even though the the tax

credits are gone there's still some amazing deals out there on electric

vehicles and actually out Nicole after you were talking about the lightning I

looked it up and Ford is right now I think through the end of the year is

doing seventy five hundred dollar incentives on the on the lightning are

still I thought they weren't doing that after all well no what what they what

the original plan the GM and Ford had was that they at the on September 30th

they were gonna buy up any unsold EV inventory from their dealers for

their for their financial arms for Ford credit and GM financial and then they'd

make the down payment on them and then claim the tax credit and they asked the

IRS and they said is this okay and the IRS said yep you're good and so that you

know then then we're gonna lease the cars out after October 1st you know and

factor in that tax credit into the lease payment well a couple of members of

Congress from one particular party decided no we don't like you doing that

that's you're you're skirting the rules and you know they were well within the

rules they they checked you know but they said okay fine we don't want to get

into a fight about this and so what they're doing is they're just they're

basically paying the $7,500 out of their pocket instead of the tax credit

gotcha yeah so if you're you know if you're looking to buy a lightning or a

Mach-E or a GM EV or or lots of other EVs you know there's still some really

good deals to be had out there even though the tax credit is officially gone

as of a couple of weeks ago just need the deals to stick around till June when

our lease is up is that your plan that's it that's the plan well I mean they

cut the prices on the on the 26 EVs or Ionic 5 yeah all the HMG stuff's

probably gonna be the same price or actually cheaper because it doesn't

have the tax credits but yeah yeah well probably we're probably gonna just gonna

buy a used EV at that point and stop the leasing so we're especially with the HMGs

these are just like all right these are good cars I don't really need to fight

yeah I mean you've been driving one deal what four years now yeah we had three

years on the the Kona and a year on the over a year on the Ionic 5 so yeah thumbs

up all right so continuing on the theme of used EVs one of the 13 or 14 or

15 Faraday Future FF 91s that were built and sold was on bring a trailer

apparently there was one earlier this year that sold on bring a trailer for

like $235,000 well this one only got bid up to just over a hundred thousand

dollars did not sell it did not hit its reserve it was $312,000 new you know this

is the funniest thing we remember in Faraday like everyone was like oh this

isn't really a company and they invited I don't know if anyone else would they

invited us to their Torrance headquarters and it was very much like hey

look at here I'm like there's no one here they're like yeah but we have all

the space for growth like anyway so they kept telling us all the things they're

adding to the car I'm like this car is gonna cost like $300,000 because they're

like we're doing this all in-house I'm like you don't understand how suppliers

work and I guess it really was $300,000 wow I made it as a joke yeah apparently

let's see yeah this one this one here that didn't sell was number four Vin

number four yeah I like this line here from the Jalatnik story the current

question is the 2023 Faraday Future FF 91 2.0 Futurist Alliance Edition with only

900 miles on the odometer it's also number four of only 300 that Faraday

Future is definitely a hundred percent really for sure going to build as of

earlier this year only 16 had been delivered to paying to quote-unquote

paying customers definitely for sure gonna build

this right you know they've been building these for I don't know three or

four years now so that's about three or four a year so that's gonna take them

about a hundred years to sell all 300 they'll get there they're gonna get there

I can believe in them I just don't understand how this this is such a

front for something it's gotta it's gotta be a money laundering scheme it's

gotta I mean legally we're gonna I guess we're gonna say we it's we can't say it

is but it sure seems like it might be a money laundering yeah I don't think they

have money for lawyers but just in case I just this this seems I mean they're

it's a very sketchy company it's always been a very sketchy company I would if

you're buying a Faraday vehicle I don't even know how to like explain what you

would have to explain to me why you were doing this you like you need to explain

yourself billionaire and you're like oh on a lark I spent $300,000 on a car like

buying a Faraday Future is as a billionaire is like buying a candy bar for

me so I'm like all right fine but any other person I'm like for the rest of

humanity for the rest of humanity I bought a giant cat head like help like

it's just a giant you put it on it's just a cat I don't know why I bought it

I just thought it was funny that's that's a billionaire buying a Faraday

Future that sounds reasonable yeah okay so are there any features on your cars

that you don't you definitely don't want that's that you can actually move yeah

yeah that's that's definitely number one and what else what other features on my car

I'm thinking there's safety features that beat me too much like things to beat you

don't know what you know what they are that's that that's the weird thing like

we had the Kona and every once in a while to do this beep I've never figured

out what that beep was I don't know what I was doing I could never I was like what

wait and so I start I would look around I'm like is there a car near me and am I

doing something weird I don't know I never figured out what it was the

expedition was periodically beeping at me and we're looking down like what what

like what is the problem and I'm sure there was a problem but I'm like what

it's the vehicle the cried wolf at some point you just like there's like what

what are you what are you telling me like give me a little something well Jason

Torchensky wrote a fun article for the Etopian it's based on a solid two weeks

of research from the National Bureau of Economic Research's economics of

transportation conference which does not no actually that's what inspired him but

it's features that customers seven least wanted car features according to the

most exhaustive study ever undertaken the most exhaustive nothing else has been

this exhaustive huh yeah apparently not okay so number one on the list 90 10

split folding rear seats there's 90 10 split folding rear seats I think it was

just Jason happens is he making stuff up Jason Jason would never make stuff up

yes how about a speedometer calibrated in leagues per day or system instead of

I like that yeah app-controlled headrests with the subscription

bifocal windshield glovebox incinerator people might want that one Jason or

anti-lock seat adjusters that yeah just randomly move back and forth and so the

seats just move back and forth they won't lock into position actually this

one here TFL had bought earlier or last year had bought a used model s a 2013

model s and they were doing some testing with it and during the six months or so

that they had it at some point the driver's seat decided to basically start

doing this just randomly going back and forth my god as you're driving it would

start the seat would start moving yeah quality workmanship that's not great

no but yeah I'll have a link to this in the show notes it's definitely worth a

read Jason's always fun to listen to read all right Cadillac CT4 and CT5 there

the current generation of those models is being discontinued after the 2026

model year but the CT5 at least will be coming back for a new generation is

going to be a redesigned one coming at some point that we don't know exactly

when but it will be resurrected yeah and it it will it will have an internal

combustion engine it will not be an EV

we'll have a manual transmission maybe it doesn't have a manual transmission why

are we even talking about it that's you know what I mean that's like that's the

reason to get the CT5 you're like okay it doesn't have a minute like don't don't

come at me with like hey we're gonna bring the CT5 back and then it says yeah

it's gonna be a gas engine all right okay okay what if what if they put the it's

gonna have a CVT oh you sons of what if they put the twin-turbo V8 from the

Corvette CR1 into the new CT5 thousand horsepower yeah with a manual

transmission and that's the real risk the reason to get the CT5 yes they come

at me with like oh it's good to speed automatic I don't want to talk to you

he's gonna be cranky because it's such a niche vehicle within that lineup that

you really need to have something that sets it apart from all the other sort of

you know sports sedans out there and that manual transmission is the CT5 black

wing with a six-speed manual yeah that is something special because you can't

you can't even get a manual in a Corvette anymore exactly see that's why wrong

but okay if you don't yeah I swear it was gonna be so angry I'm gonna be so

angry they're like look we brought it back

we put a heavy in it time to answer a couple of listener questions first up

there's Sean Whitehurst he just sent us a quick message after we talked about

10th anniversary of dieselgate a couple weeks ago he sent us a picture which I

will include a link to in the show notes of a license plate that he saw on a car

it was on a Volkswagen Tuareg a couple years back a Tuareg diesel and it's a

New York license plate yes D1RTY DZL dirty diesel I had already done this

cute and there's also a sticker on the back window it says Das Paluten

I mean that's brilliant but it's also terrible I'm not gonna mention the other

sticker that's on the back window though and then Bill sent us a question here or

comment says and this is your opportunity to defend yourself Robbie I have

to defend Bill's bladder but please go on I enjoy the podcast every week and

appreciate what you guys do but on the latest episode I heard Robbie say nobody

drives more than 250 miles referring to the vehicle range I will say that I

prefaced that as no one in like my age I did say when I was in my 20s I drove like

a thousand miles of that pulling over but please go on I may be the exception but

I definitely drive further than that on road trips I typically drive between

three and four hundred miles then stop for gas snacks and a restroom break

before taking a total of no more than 15 minutes I then drive again somewhere

between three and 400 miles again I have been wanting to get an EV for a few

years for some EVs the range for the first leg of the trip is okay if starting

with a battery that is 100% charged getting 90% range before stopping to

recharge at 10% means that my desired range is easily achievable in some EVs

unfortunately the range available for the second leg of the trip would be

limited to only 70% of the total range of the vehicle DC fast charging from 10 to

80% I think I will need an EV with a total range of 500 miles in order to get

the desired range on the second leg at a reasonable price point I don't see any

options I'm hoping that new battery technology will provide for this higher

range even when I were even then I worry about battery degradation I see that

most warranties require a loss of more than 20% to require a battery replacement

under warranty that means that my max range can drop to only 400 miles and the

manufacturer would say that is normal 70% of that is not enough for my road

trip driving style I'm cautiously optimistic that I will be able to get an

EV that satisfied my needs satisfies my needs in the next five to eight years I

certainly hope so so are you driving a diesel bill like what do you do 400

miles of range 400 you're talking like six hours behind the wheel where does

listen maybe he lives in what is it Montana where you can drive 80 miles an

hour speed limit you could live someplace where he's just like flying

it's a long time I mean you can drive 70 miles an hour on California freeways

which means you're driving 80 which means I'm driving 85 and even then I'm

like I got a pee it's literally I end up having to pull over to pee before the

car needs to be charged so Bill has a mightier bill has a mighty mighty bladder

bladder than I for now who knows or maybe Bill doesn't drink as much liquid as I

do or maybe Bill doesn't see like a taco stand and want to pull up

Bill's eating fewer tacos so you know I think you know the quote nobody drives

more than 250 miles you know you know may I think maybe taking that a little

bit out of context the majority of people most people don't drive to don't drive

that much yeah they don't drive that much without a break yeah you want to pull

over also that's that's so bad on your your butt and your back and it's good to

get out and stretch again I am I am how old am I 51 I am 51 when I was in my

20s I drove from Tahachapi to Kansas City and I we drew and we were stuck in a

snowstorm which meant we couldn't pull over so we're doing 25 miles an hour at

some point and we were I was in the car for 10 hours straight totally fine you

know why because I was like 22 yeah I was 22 it wasn't it had nothing to do

with range I was doing 25 miles an hour in a snowstorm because if we went

quicker than if we went faster than 25 the wheels would spin so it just like

cruise a lot and I mean you know yesterday I drove 270 miles from West

Chicago back to Ypsilanti and our new to us EV6 you know and you know I had to

stop a couple times you know for you know for for a bathroom break and you know

and also to charge because the one the one downside that the dealer did great I

mean whole in and out with buying this car like 10 minutes to deal didn't didn't

try to sell me on any extended warranties or anything else had the paperwork

ready to sign here sign here sign here sign here initial here okay here's keys

and you know so yeah so I was out of there shockingly fast but the only

downside is they had only charged it to 60% so so you know I stopped and well I

initially stopped in Michigan City Indiana and went grabbed a sandwich from

Panera and then went across the street to the electrify America to charge up and

I couldn't could not get the charger that or the app or something to work

properly and start to charge and so I said oh sorry excuse me yeah we're

and then so I continued on to Benton Harbor to the the next EA station and

it charged up fine there was going like 200 and almost 240 kilowatts for a while

there 240 mother effing kilowatts yeah MFR listen I support Bill in his magical

bladder that can not have to pee for five hours sitting in the car if you're

going if you're doing 80 miles an hour or 400 miles that's still five hours yeah

I brought such a long time you know I brought my my Nax adapter with me through

that my backpack when I got on the train yesterday just in case I needed to stop

at a supercharger then I realized oh if I stop at a supercharger with this car

it's only gonna charge it 84 kilowatts so I'm just gonna go for electrify America

and get my 230 240 kilowatts yeah I just got an update in myonic 5 a software

update that now shows the Tesla supercharging stations so now I'm sure

hopefully they're finally sending out those those those free adapters yeah so

yeah I once I think not the last drive road trip the one before I went 40 minutes

for how to pull over to pee Robbie is fixated on this now he is just so baffled

you know here's it's and it's I drink so much liquid I'm just always drinking

there are look I'm gonna lift up here are you over hydrating Robbie there's like

there's a scope can water glass and there's a red bull and a red bull can't

on my desk so I think I just drank more liquids than Bill I mean two to two of

those things that you had in your hand there are also loaded with lots of

caffeine which yeah doesn't die coke yeah not quite as bad yeah I mean I drink a

lot of water 59 and I managed to go over two hours without a bathroom break

yesterday I mean I can do it yeah I just don't see the point exactly like if I'm

driving I'm like sometimes I'll be like sometimes like okay I gotta have to pee

because I decided to have like a tea before I left and then I like stopped

and got like a giant diet coke from like the 7-Eleven and now I'm driving and

I'm like oh if I just keep going I can make it to the day I can get to this

one charging station because they have like tacos at this time

so I can hold it but as yeah literally of my my my my my my road trips up and

down the state of California are essentially like where are the taco

stands where can I get tacos I'm gonna fill my body with a lot of diet coke

while I'm driving around well I had a this week I had a flight a red eye flight

back from San Francisco to Detroit and unfortunately you know because it was a

late booking I was stuck back in coach and I but I did have a window seat which

means yeah so I just made sure I didn't didn't really drink much of anything

before while I was sitting for at least an hour I'm doing that before I'm

I'm flying I think coach to New York from Las Vegas this week it's a red eye and

I put myself next to I usually sit aisle but I put next to the window so I

could sleep so I could lean on something so I wouldn't leave them at the poor

person and I have broad shoulders so I'm just like getting hit constantly by the

the aisles and so yeah so I'm but I yeah to make sure I don't I don't drink

anything before like a child I'm like a child Bill I'm a child I don't know what

to tell you I'm just sleep for three and a half hours on a four-hour flight so I

have the bladder to size of a child probably knows the joys of getting old

yeah we should do a very quiet and cool there we should have a I think there

should be like an auto journalist like thing we should do the bill the bill

challenge when we we all get in the cars and we see how far and we all have to

drink like a 32 ounce whatever doesn't matter a big Diet Coke and then we all

have to see how far we can drive before we have to pull over you're not a lot

to pee yourself are in a bowl or in a bottle or in a bottle I wouldn't be

doing that anyway so there you go we do the bill challenge I'm gonna tell

everybody this next week at all the car events I'm going to this guy Bill he

drives 500 miles without having to pee Bill's a bill Bill's a superhero do you

think you could you could do the bill challenge I could definitely not go that

far without a without a break what do you drive Bill I'm very curious yeah

yeah Bill tell right back to us tell us what what you're driving if you drive

a nice luxury vehicle that's a that's how much do you drink before you get in

the car or do you dehydrate yourself before you get in the car basically

Robbie and Sam need you to justify the speed that you are here's a question

Bill is an Avenger as far as I can so Bill here are questions what are you

driving do you dehydrate before you get in the car and how old are you

for next week he's gonna get back to us he's like I drink a super big gulp I

drive a night I drive a 1994 dashboard with shot and suspension so my bladder

is being jostled the entire time and I'm 75 damn it Bill make me make me

question everything in my life if he's if he's driving this frequently for such

long distances he's probably managed to stretch out his bladder there's a lot

of going on here we'll talk to you next time hi I'm Andy Staples from Andy and

Ariane 3 and another five-star quarterback just entered the transfer

portal that's what college football is now a non-stop adventure and we cover it

every day at Andy and Ariane 3 whether it's the transfer portal the college

football playoff the coaching carousel you name it and guess what it doesn't

stop even when the season ends so join us every day Monday through Friday new

episodes drop at 3 p.m. wherever you get your podcasts if you're an HVAC

technician and a call comes in Granger knows that you need a partner that

helps you find the right product fast and hassle free and you know that when

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