CarEdge Live Dec 5, 2025

The Car Market Has FINALLY FLIPPED | Ford, Mazda & Lincoln Dealer Explains | Episode 976

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Car

Toyota Camry

The Toyota Camry is a popular car that is comfortable and gets good gas mileage, making it a favorite for many drivers.

Car

Toyota Tacoma

The Toyota Tacoma is a small truck that is tough and can handle off-road driving, making it popular with people who like outdoor activities.

Car

Ford F-150 Raptor

The Ford Raptor is a special version of the Ford F-150 truck made for off-roading. It has better suspension and a stronger engine to handle rough trails and dirt roads.

Car

Lincoln

Lincoln is a brand of luxury cars made by Ford. They are known for being more comfortable and having more features than regular cars.

Term

dealer fee

A dealer fee is a charge that car dealerships sometimes add to the price of a car. It's like a service fee that helps cover their costs, but it can make the car more expensive than you might expect.

Term

The 'back-end' is the money that car dealerships make after selling you a car, usually from financing options or extra services like warranties. It's how they can earn more money beyond just the car sale.

Car

2024 Ford

The 2024 Ford models are the latest cars made by Ford for the year 2024. They usually have new designs and improvements over older models.

Car

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It's noon here in Venture City, New Jersey,

and our nation's capital, Washington, DC.

And this is Car Edge Live for Friday, December 5th

with your hosts, me, Ray here in Venture City.

A little bit of snow, but not much.

And Zach, well, in a snow-covered Washington, DC,

what everybody's been waiting for, a white December 5th.

How are you today, handsome?

Doing a fantastic one for my run out there

in the snow.

It's super beautiful this morning.

If you stick around to the end of the show,

I'll pick up my laptop.

I'll go walk over to my window

and I'll show you what's going on here in DC.

We've got a special guest today.

We're gonna bring him in in just a moment.

But before we do, a friendly reminder to everyone,

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We're gonna do a short promotion

for what we're up to at Car Edge today

because we're bringing in our special guest,

Joe Lewis from J.C. Lewis, Ford Lincoln, and Mazda.

I'm gonna pull up your website real quick here.

Joe, do you mind doing a brief introduction

for those who are unfamiliar with you?

Yeah, hey, everybody.

I'm a general manager at the J.C. Lewis Group.

We have four Ford stores, a Lincoln store,

and a Mazda store.

And I've been friends with these chefs

because now for a couple years now.

So I think we might be getting up

to like six or seven appearances here.

Yeah, yeah.

Always glad to be on the show.

So just to call it out really quick,

and then I'll hand it off to my dad

to be the first question for Joe.

J.C. Lewis.com is Joe's dealership.

We obviously had Dan the Grange on yesterday from Key Auto.

Again, just to reiterate for everyone,

Joe pays us no money for this.

We don't ask him for any money for this.

This is just because he's a very transparent man,

runs a great dealership,

and we love getting his insights that.

I'll hand it off to you first.

I went with the car market has finally flipped.

Ford Mazda and Lincoln dealer explains, let's go, baby.

Well, here's the first question

that Joe and I kind of sort of touched on this

before the show.

This question is basically,

is this going to be a December to remember

because sales were great,

or will it be a December to remember

because it's for all the wrong reasons?

What do you think so far, Joe?

You know, I think it's too early to tell so far,

but I was telling Ray that it's so far,

it's been a December not to remember.

It's been a slow start,

but you know, typically December's slow

until about the middle of the month,

you start seeing it ramp up.

Hopefully it ramps up here sooner than later, though.

Joe, we did have on Dan LeGrand,

who oversees 20 dealerships as part of the Key Auto Group,

and it was great to get his perspective.

Heck, maybe in the future we'll have you and Dan on

at the same time, and we reviewed this information

we've had from Cox Automotive all week,

which talks about dealer sentiment.

I'm not sure if you've seen this,

but the too long didn't read on this, Joe.

You can show all the charts going down into the right

or we can look at the actual bullet points here.

Dealer sentiment is declining traffic

to dealerships as declining,

and profitability is declining.

That's the general consensus from Cox Automotive,

which is like the big conglomerate in the space.

So, you know, share with us your perspective,

obviously December hopefully becomes a turnaround

for you and your business,

but what have you seen over the past couple of months

since we last had you on here,

and then feel free to break it down

by the brands that you work on,

and also caveat anything that you think is,

you know, geographic specific as well.

Yeah, you know, I think in general,

it's been getting tough lately, and I say lately,

I mean, this really this whole year.

You know, ever since COVID,

we've kind of seen, you know, profits decline at dealerships.

You know, I think traffic,

we're starting to sell more cars,

but definitely making less money

on those cars that we're selling.

And as, you know, that I've seen you guys

kind of post and talk about,

as the market flips from a seller's market

to a buyer's market,

I think we're gonna continue to see that same trend.

We'll continue to see, you know, sales volume

maybe go up a little bit, but profit go down.

Interesting.

Are you counting on your manufacturer partners

to help underwrite the slowdown in traffic?

In other words, do you wanna see them

increase their incentives?

So perhaps you guys might not have to discount

your vehicles quite as much to be able

to get the people to where they wanna be?

Yeah, you know, look, I think that, you know,

we're never satisfied with how many cars we sell.

So I think that we're always pushing the envelope

and discounting as much as we can.

And when it does slow down,

it's really nice to see the manufacturer step in and help

and push those special interest rates, you know,

0% or push those big rebates.

Cause that helps, but we're never sitting there going,

oh, hey, we're selling a ton of cars,

making a ton of money.

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna discount my cars much.

The only time that happens is if it's a specialty,

you know, Raptor, Raptor R kind of vehicle

that are really tough to get.

Other than that, we're trying to make deals left and right.

What's your experience across the different brands, Joe?

So you've obviously got Mazda dealerships

in the group, four dealerships and Lincoln dealerships.

Are all things equal across all those brands

or are you seeing inventory stack up a little bit more

amongst some brands versus others?

Yeah, you know, Mazda continues to be

in a pretty healthy inventory space.

You know, we were light for a while there,

but we've had a couple good allocations.

So Mazda's good, Lincoln's good.

We've got about a three month supply with Lincoln

and Ford, we have a three to four month supply.

So, inventory is inventory strong throughout the group.

We've also taken over the last several months,

we've taken a more of a volume based approach

to our entire group.

And I'm not saying that we didn't give good deals

previously, but lately we've decided

to take bigger allocations from the manufacturers

so that we can have more inventory

and try to get even more aggressive on deals

and try to sell more cars.

Can I follow up on that briefly?

Yeah.

Prior to pushing the group more towards a volume business

as opposed to just a profit oriented business,

how much have you seen your front end gross profits

decline on average?

On average, that's a good question.

That's why Zach pays me the little that he does, Joe, is to...

Yeah.

What, yes.

You know, I mean, over an average is kind of tough to say

because front end profits are different now

than what they were back in January, February,

but all I can say to that is, you know,

other than saying, probably a few hundred bucks,

several hundred bucks is in the past

where we may have not taken certain deals,

now we're taking those deals, you know,

whether that number is a $1,000 loser or a $2,000 loser,

we're just starting to take a few more of the deals

that we wouldn't have previously taken.

Is that because your hope is that you can make it up

on the finance side of things?

Yeah, so, you know, our hope is when someone says,

oh, $1,000 loser, you know, why would you do that?

Well, you know, we have a dealer fee

that makes up part of that number.

And then our hope is that we either have a trade-in

or that we're gonna make some back-end

on the financing side.

So, you know, if you're buying a car

and you're paying cash and you have no trade,

there's less likely chance that we're gonna go

really, really deep because there's no trade,

there's no financing.

But if you're trading in a retailable trade,

so call it a five-year car or newer

and you're financing with us,

those are the type of deals

that we're getting really aggressive on.

Makes sense, makes sense.

Talk to us a little bit, Joe,

about the inventory situation more in-depth.

Like, do you have particular vehicles

that you're looking to get off of?

I know when we were talking before the show a little bit,

it sounded like on the Mazda side,

your oldest car was only 120 days on the lot,

but maybe on the Ford and Lincoln side,

it's a slightly different, you know, setup.

Let's understand,

because we've been coaching a lot of people recently, Joe,

to look for a prior model year,

like even 2024 new cars.

Ford, we were just looking at the data the other day,

has 16,000 new 2024s,

still for sale nationwide right now.

And so we're going to the 20 footed picks, obviously.

So share with us some insights into your inventory

and we can pull it up on the screen too and show folks.

Yeah, so I just emailed you our five oldest Lincolns.

Who wants to see his five oldest Lincolns?

Let us know in the chat.

I know I do.

We're about, I mean, their birthdays have already passed.

So they're all over 365 days old.

You know, there's nearly no deal,

I'll turn down on those five.

Would it be safe to say that unlike a fine line,

cars and vehicles don't get better with age necessarily?

Correct, the deal gets better,

but it doesn't look any better in our eyes.

In a perfect world, we'd sell them all

before they hit 30 days old.

But there's a butt for every seat,

but the problem is one of them just might take 100 days

or 200 or 300 days to sell.

Can you explain to our audience

why it's important to sell them sooner

rather than later?

Yeah, you know, it's all about floor plan, right?

And so to think about it in easy terms,

we pay interest on all of the cars that sit on our lot.

And so the longer a car sits, the more interest we pay.

Some manufacturers have programs like if you sell it

within 30 days or within 45 days,

you don't pay any interest on it.

The easiest way to think about it is you pay less interest

on a car that sits for a little amount of time,

more interest on a car that sits for a long period of time.

So a car like these Lincoln's that are here

for over 365 days, I've paid a lot in interest on those cars

and I really want to get it out of here.

So help a customer understand this

because what most people will have just heard

is that those vehicles that have had birthdays

actually have a greater expense associated with them

than those that are just 20 days old or 60 days old.

So if you look at the total expense in that vehicle

because of all that floor plan interest for a year

and then you're willing to take a loser,

it's a much more significant loser

because of all that added floor plan expense.

So why would you be willing to take that loser

when some people would say,

well you should be more willing to take that loser deal

on a fresh car, not the older car?

Yeah, so the way I like to think about it, Ray,

is I've had 400 days to sell that car

and in 400 days no one's bought it yet,

so I've got to do something.

It's almost like a real bit of opportunity cost.

Like it also takes up physical space at your dealership.

You need to get a vehicle that has a better chance

of selling.

I'm gonna pull it up on the screen.

Before I do, I want to remind everyone.

The man in the middle today is Joe Lewis from JC Lewis.

Joe is a general manager over at JC Lewis.

We've known each other for years now.

His dealership group is JCLewis.com.

If you choose to reach out to Joe and his team,

please share that CarEdge sent you their way.

We have no commercial or financial agreement

between CarEdge and JC Lewis.

We just appreciate his insights

and the transparency that he provides

similar to yesterday's show.

Here's what Joe sent over to me.

Let's break these down, Joe.

Let's talk about this.

So here are five Lincoln aviators,

20, 25 Lincoln aviators that you've had

for between 387 and 428 days.

Let's talk a little bit about

how you think about selling these things

and also the fact that they have some miles on them now.

How does that happen?

And again, through the lens of our community,

a lot of these people are deal hunters.

They want to feel like they got a good deal.

Are these the types of vehicles heading into 2026

that someone can get a better deal on

than say that brand new aviator

that just got on the lot?

Oh, absolutely.

So a few things to unpack there.

So the age, obviously, yes, they're pretty old.

Part of a reason for that is

is aviators were on a national recall stop sale.

So there was a several month period

where we could not sell those

because the manufacturer had recalls on it.

They've got the miles on them

because these are all grounded loners.

So they were loners in our service department

for a month or two.

So the clock doesn't stop

when we put them in the loner fleet, right?

So those two or three months,

they were in the loner fleet.

We couldn't sell them either.

So those days in stock started

as soon as the car left the port on transport to come here.

So the recalls came off of them,

I would say last month, sometime in November.

We've only been able to sell these

for the last month or two.

And the 2025s have a $6,000 rebate on them.

Whereas the 26s have a zero rebate.

So if you're looking at comparing them,

right off the rip, not including dealer discount,

you have $6,000 more on those 2025s

or you can give up that six grand,

take a thousand rebate and get 0% for 48 months,

2.9 for 60, 3.9 for 72, 4.9 for 84.

Yeah, wow, go for it, Dan.

Well, I do have a question

because you mentioned that there had been a stop sale

for a while on those vehicles.

This is gonna be a little bit of a touchy subject

but I'm gonna ask it anyway.

Ford has had 138 recalls this year.

The previous record for a manufacturer

for recalls in a year was 69.

So they've actually doubled it.

So my question to you is,

have you seen any impact in your business

based on the fact that Ford has had a,

I guess what could best be described

as the worst recall year in recorded history?

Have you seen an impact?

Yeah, I think we've all felt it.

The good news is, I went to the Ford National Dealer Meeting

and the Lincoln National Dealer Meeting this year

and it's at both of their minds,

at the front of their minds right now.

It was one of the first things they talked about

and they both seem really confident

that they've got this under control

with new product launches having a lower recall percentage

versus previous years.

So even though the numbers still look bad,

it's a huge focus for Ford and Lincoln

and we're looking to see it get better.

And if I may, Dad, sorry, I just wanna jump back to this

because I think it's really important.

We've got a community member saying $6,000

is still not enough.

Often I wanna be very, very, very clear here.

I wanna plug that one out too.

Yeah, what Joe's talking about

and I'm gonna shut up in a second and let him talk about it.

This is the distinction

between manufacturer incentive and dealer discount.

This is why we preach out the door praise

with a breakdown of where the discount's coming from.

So Joe, please speak to this because $6,000

is not actually all you're getting off

on one of the aviators that we were talking about

a moment ago.

So pull that sheet up again with my oldest Lincolns.

Okay, so that top one, for instance,

stock number SGL04788.

So that one's 428 days old.

The MSRP is 76,850 on that car.

I can probably, you're gonna get that 6,000 in rebate

and I can probably discount that car 6,000 to 7,000.

So you're looking at a, call it $12,000.

Well, everyone hears me say the higher number.

So call it $13,000 in discount.

13,000 divided by 78.

78,650.

We're talking about what?

Like an 86.

It's a 16 and a half percent discount.

So let's go.

No, but I mean, seriously, like we preach here, Joe,

market dynamics as being the driver of deal making, right?

It does not get any more transparent than this.

Would you do that on a brand new, I don't know, Mazda

that you have on your lot?

Hell no, there's no chance at all

you're discounting 16 and a half percent.

Like this is because of the market dynamics, right?

Like that's what's driving your decision making here.

Right?

So no, no, it's a hundred percent, you know,

if it, you know, to your point earlier Ray,

if a brand new something that's selling really fast right now,

a 25 navigator with the jet package,

the blacked out jet package that those we can't,

those are sitting for like 10, 20, 30 days and they're gone.

Am I willing to discount that car the same bit?

No, because those are selling so quick,

but when I have a car that's 400 days old, you know,

part of that's because it was on recall for a while,

but the other part is it's been here a long time.

It must not be as popular, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

So I need to, I need to discount, get it out of here.

You guys mind if we go to the chat?

Sorry to have to jump in.

I just, everyone today's our guest is Joe Lewis

from JC Lewis, he's general manager over there again.

There's no quid pro quo.

There's no financial arrangement between car edge

and JC Lewis, Joe just comes on.

Every once in a while and shares his transparent insights

if you're interested in working with Joe and his team,

let him know car edge since you check it out at his website.

We've got some really thoughtful contributions

that have come in.

This one from blank J, can't say that one.

Thanks for the contribution.

Could you explain what happens

when a Mazda dealership discounts 11% on a CX50?

Knowing the buyer is a cash buyer, no trading

and not gonna buy anything in F and I, PS,

thanks, love my Mazda.

Joe, talk us through this.

Why are some dealers out there going that aggressive

to not make it up in those other areas, you think?

Yeah, so, you know, I would love to know what year it is.

If it's a 2025 CX50, there's a little bit of rebate in there

where if I had an aging 2025 CX50 on my lot

with that rebate included, I could get you 11% as well.

So that's probably why.

All right, there you go.

And may I say, even though somebody says

they're a cash buyer and they say,

oh, I would have no interest in any of the products

that they're gonna share with me

in the finance and insurance office,

the business office when they go in

to sign the paperwork, I can't tell you how many times

those customers have come out

and they have bought something

that they had no intention of buying.

So sometimes you take that short deal

knowing that it's a cash deal

and the hope is that your finance manager

can show enough value in some of the products

that the cash buyer who was not going to buy anything

suddenly sees value and buys some things.

100%.

I think the point I'm trying to make

is it's always a crapshoot.

You never really know.

Yeah, no, you're 100% right, it's a gamble.

I mean, even with those deals where they have a trade

and they're financing with us,

all the right pieces are there for us

to get really aggressive.

There are still times where we do that deal,

they finance, they buy nothing.

We make the bank sends us $100 flat

for taking the financing

and then we go to sell their trade

and it has a bunch of issues in service

and we wholesale it and we lose five grand

or we retail it and it's a car that nobody wants

and we lose two grand on that used car.

So it's always a gamble.

I used to always tell customers

just because we trade your car

doesn't mean we can sell your car.

Every trade is a crapshoot.

We think we know the market well enough

to know what the vehicle's worth

and how quickly we can turn it.

But we've oftentimes been proven wrong.

And so every deal is literally a crapshoot.

Let's keep going.

My favorite thing to do every now and then

when we have a used car that's been here

a really long time, can't sell it.

If we ever get to the point where we're listing the car

for sale for the same amount

that I gave someone for a trade value,

I'll always like to call that customer up

and say, hey, I still got your used car.

Do you know anyone that wants to buy it?

I've got it listed for the same thing I gave you for it.

That's quality.

Yeah, so yeah, no, I mean, you're right.

Sometimes you sell it really quick

and you ring the bell and other times it sits

and then the market changes on it, right?

So the car that was worth 40 grand,

if you sit on it for three months,

now it might be worth 37 grand.

So it's always a risk, everything's a risk.

Absolutely.

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Toyotathon, Toyotathon, Toyotathon is on.

Oh, what fun it is to drive a new Toyota today.

Hey, Jan from Toyota here,

reminding you Toyotathon is on.

Make your holiday wishes come true

with a new Camry, RAV4, Tacoma and more.

All right, let's sing it together this time.

Toyotathon, Toyotathon, Toyotathon is on.

Dealer inventory may vary.

Toyotathon ends January 5th.

See your participating dealer for details.

Toyota, let's go places.

All right, I'm gonna keep moving here.

We've got from G Paul Marify.

Hopefully I got that right.

Thanks for the kind contribution.

How will Amazon selling Ford certified pre-owned vehicles

affect your used car sales?

Now, Joe, this is super interesting.

Obviously you've got the Ford dealerships.

My dad had a letter to the editor

published an automotive news recently saying,

it's kind of a non-story.

It's really just more lead gen for car dealers.

You like his take, our take or what do you think?

Is this gonna really revolutionize things for you?

Yeah, you know, every NADA and GADA, Georgia,

you know, dealer group meetings that I've been to,

we've seen stuff like this happen for a long time,

right?

We've seen Hyundai try to partner with Amazon

to sell cars directly.

All of that kind of stuff.

I don't see anything like this affecting us too badly right now.

Now, you know, over the next 10 years, maybe it does,

but when I see stuff like that come up now,

I don't think it will.

I think, like Zach said,

I think it'll be mainly a lead generation type deal.

Can I ask a slightly off topic question?

Yeah.

You gotta be careful here, Pops,

because we don't have a ton of time.

We've got more contributions to go through.

Well, I'll make it quick.

Carvana just bought its fourth new CDJR dealership,

this one in the Atlanta area.

What do you think the impact of a,

basically a digital used car retailer

will have on the industry

as they continue to grow their new car franchise situation?

Or do you think it'll impact it?

Yeah, you know, I mean,

I think that's another one of those things

that it could impact it a little bit

in the next 10, 20 years right now.

You know, I don't know,

but I do think it's the most interesting part about that

because I didn't know they bought another one,

but I had heard they bought some previously.

And I think what's interesting about it

is you have Carvana,

which is trying to be like an anti dealership,

but then they have enough confidence

in an actual dealership to buy those dealerships.

So I think it's, you know,

I think it's pretty ironic,

but it'll be interesting, you know?

We've got here from Scott.

Thank you, Scott, appreciate this.

Hey, Joe, thanks for the transparency,

but can we negotiate the prices

of any of your vehicles remotely?

I don't like the quote, presence is power term.

And I just wanna follow up to this and say,

we coach people all the time,

call up dealerships, email dealerships,

ask for out the door price quotes.

So Joe, do you do that

or do you require everyone has to come in

and negotiate and sit down with you?

100%.

I actually have a rule at my store is that

day one is all about trying to get the customer information,

try to set an appointment, all that kind of stuff,

but day two in my store is it's mandatory

that a quote is sent out.

If you ask for a quote on day one,

obviously we're gonna send you one,

but it's mandatory that we get quotes out

that we're super aggressive right off the rip.

All we'll need to know to your point

is what state, city and zip code

you plan on registering the car

because taxes and fees are different everywhere.

But as soon as we have that info,

we can get you our best number pretty quick.

Love that, absolutely love that.

That's great.

We've got one more contribution to pull up here

from our dear friend of the channel, Matthew,

saying the only one,

the only one old Lincoln I like,

Abe's been dead for a while.

Hey, I hear a lot of different Lincoln's

for different folks.

Again, wanna thank Joe for taking the time out of his day.

I'm gonna pull up the website one more time

and I just wanna acknowledge again,

Joe takes time out of his day,

there's no quid pro quo here.

If we can help you out,

obviously Joe's team is willing to back at jcluis.com

and obviously the work that we do back at CarEdge.com,

we send customers to Joe all the time.

So it's really incredible to get these insights.

Any parting shots from you, Joe?

Anything you wanna share with our community?

I've got one final question for you.

Maybe my dad does too,

but my question is for 2026,

where do you see the car market going?

We asked Dan LaGrange this yesterday.

Do you see it continuing to be a buyer's market,

seller's market or somewhere in between?

Yeah, so I think it largely depends

on the different manufacturers

and what they've got going on.

I think it's gonna continue to be a buyer's market.

I think volume is gonna stay fairly steady

if not go up just a little bit in 26,

but it's definitely gonna continue to be a buyer's market.

Lincoln, for example,

we know the volume is gonna go down about 20%

because they're stopping production

on the 26-course air to let Ford ramp up some production

on some hybrid and electric cars.

But, you know, so other than some one-offs like that

with certain manufacturers,

you know, like Mazda, for instance,

I see that it would either be the same

or go up a little bit

now that all that tariff uncertainty has kind of gone away.

So yeah, I think it's gonna continue

to be a buyer's market, though.

It's a great time to buy a car

just be smart about it.

If you want a 2026 Lincoln Aviator

in this certain color and this certain trim and interior

and you don't mind paying for it, great, go for it.

But if you want the deal,

the deal is on the 2025 that has 4,000 miles on it.

And you might not be able to get

the exact color combo you want

or if you can, you may just have to look

over a few different states to find that one.

So, but yeah, continuing to be a buyer's market, for sure.

My last question, credit worthiness,

have you seen any impact whatsoever

in your buyers as far as their credit worthiness is concerned?

Yeah, you know, as the market tightens up

and when I say tightens up,

just, you know, as it gets harder to sell cars,

as people are feeling the economy

and cars are expensive, et cetera, et cetera,

we always see credit kind of slide down.

And that's because, and that's mainly because

the people who have the credit to buy a car are thinking,

okay, maybe it's not the right time

or maybe I wait till December to buy a car

or maybe I wait for that deal.

The people that don't have that credit worthiness

are the ones that are just,

I mean, let me buy a car, let me try to buy a car.

And you know, so we're seeing a good bit of that right now.

Got you.

Joe, we can't thank you enough

for taking 30 minutes out of your day

to share your insights with our community.

We'll have to do a check-in maybe in January,

hear how the end of the year went for you and your stories.

And again, if Joe and his team can help you out,

jcluis.com.

Joe, happy holidays to you and your family.

Thanks for taking the time.

Thank you all.

Appreciate it as always.

Always having you here.

So great to have Joe on.

And again, a friendly reminder,

if we can assist you,

obviously we do some deals

with Joe and his dealerships.

And again, we don't make any money on that.

We serve you, our community member,

but it's caredge.com.

My dad and I for the past six years

have been working on this.

So great to have made some friends in the industry

like Joe, who are so transparent, so open.

I mean, we're getting screenshots from the DMS

of his most aged units.

How much more transparent does it get?

It's fantastic to have access to information like this.

Dad, it's Friday.

And so you know, that means one thing

and one hour only.

We have questions Friday.

Exactly.

Every week over on the Car Edge Community Forum,

caredge.com slash community,

we answer questions.

So let's go ahead and jump into it.

Sound good?

Absolutely.

I'm almost quasi-prepared for this.

I don't think you are prepared,

but we're gonna jump right in.

From Kyle, first question here.

I would like your opinion

on the Alpedore price of this car.

MSRP New was about $25,000.

And I feel like only a couple hundred dollars

off a used one with 61,000 miles

on the dash is unrealistic.

I'm primarily looking for some advice

on how to negotiate the price.

In my point of view,

I feel like it's hard since there are no accidents

one owner and the body looks mint from the photos.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

So we've got a Civic Si Coupe,

the original MSRP.

Is that the original?

It can't be the original.

I mean, $25,000.

And we've got a selling price

with taxes and fees that have 27,000.

Make it make sense, Dad?

Yeah, sure.

Go buy a brand new one for a couple thousand dollars more

and get a full warranty.

And perhaps have some specialized interest rates

that you might qualify for to help you purchase it.

This is one of those examples where a three,

four, five-year-old car with 60 plus thousand miles on it

still retains way too much of its original value

to have it make sense to purchase it as a pre-owned car.

In fact, it's an Si I think also is influencing that

because some of the Civics like the Si and the Type R

I think are more enthusiast-oriented.

Like the new ones don't sell with as big of discounts

as a non-Si or non-R.

And obviously we see that then show up

in the used car market as well.

But yeah, this is definitely an example

of this is a very, very, very expensive vehicle

to be buying both on the used car market

and on the new car side of things.

Yes.

Let's keep going here.

We've got some car edge.

That wasn't us, but we'll see.

I would like to get your perspective on your end strategies.

I have a 2025 Lincoln MKC Black Label 2.3T with 110,000 miles.

Looking to upgrade to a 2022 or 2023 Corsair,

what would you recommend as the best strategic way

to approach dealers in the last week of December

or is there a better time?

So we've got to trade in and we've got a vehicle

we're looking to purchase.

What's your thinking here, Dad, on strategy?

Well, better to trade it in today than tomorrow

because wholesale values are still declining

and have been for the last six weeks or so

so that the current value of your vehicle

is going to be of your trade-in vehicle

is going to be worth more today than tomorrow

or two weeks from tomorrow.

And you're approaching the end of the year

where there are sales goals that these dealerships are

trying to hit both for new and pre-owned cars.

So we know that on the new car side of things,

it's more of a buyer's market.

On the used car side of things,

it's a tad bit more difficult

because there's still a shortage of these younger used cars,

22 to 23 Corsair reserves.

But you are at the time of the year

where especially since December has started off slow,

you are at the time of the year

where you might find a dealer a tad bit more motivated

to make something happen than they would have been,

had November been a good month

and had December started well.

We know November wasn't a good month

and December hasn't started well.

Yeah, absolutely.

So now's the time to start making moves

is the recommendation we've got here from Dave.

I have followed you fellows for a while now on YouTube.

Thank you, Dave.

I'm aware that this is a buyer's market

going into December.

I'm wondering if your crystal ball

has any forecast for January,

especially the end of January

when many people have those holiday bills

they may be paying.

How does January look?

I'd imagine that January is going to be equally

as strong for consumers.

The downside might be that the manufacturer incentives

on new vehicles probably won't be as strong.

We have 440% financing offers in the market right now.

It's the highest number we've seen

for new vehicles so far this year

and that's just because it's December.

I don't anticipate seeing 440% financing offers

in January, do you?

Typically manufacturers cut back their incentives

to some degree in January and February

because well they know that they've already pulled forward,

pulled forward customers from January and February

into December and so they're not going to spend

as much money incentivizing the sales

of their new inventory in the two slowest months of the year.

But dealer discounts I think in January

will still be really significant

because it's not like anything's going to change

materially, I think.

Yeah, the dealer discounts could be significant

but if there was a large dealer discount

to be had in December plus you could pair that up

with 0% or 1.9% financing, those options

of freely subvented financing could be gone.

Absolutely, we've got here from Dan, thank you Dan.

Reliability of many brands, particularly domestics,

often are disparaged, particularly with the CVT transmissions

and turbocharged four cylinder engines.

But what I can't seem to find any good discussion about

is how a hybrid power center changes hybrid power train,

changes these dynamics in ways such as power train benefits

of transmission and certainly engine wear thoughts.

Dad, do you have any thoughts when it comes to hybrid

versus a internal combustion engine for the domestics

and their reliability?

We know that one brand for sure

has truly perfected hybrids and that's Toyota.

They were one of the first ones to bring them out.

They have spent more time and energy developing hybrids

over the last 30, 35 years than any other manufacturer.

But there's also some drawbacks to hybrids.

We know that the rate of fires, engine fires

is higher in a hybrid than it is in gas or electric.

So there can be some concerns

but I think for the most part today,

people like the added mileage that they can attain

with a hybrid system.

So you just have to weigh out the pluses and the minuses

and if it were me, I think I would,

if I'm looking at hybrid, I'm looking at Toyota Lexus.

And again, a friendly reminder folks,

we're going through the questions that are posted each week

over on caredge.com slash community.

We have a community forum with over 40,000 numbers on it.

You can get help looking over a car deal,

locating vehicles and so much more.

Go to caredge.com slash community.

Dad, let's keep going.

Here we've got from Juan.

First of all, you guys are great.

Thank you, Juan.

It's very nice to see people like you helping out others

with your years of experience.

That's to my dad for sure.

I am searching for a 2026 Lexus RX 500H

with a particular color combo and options.

It seems like they have a very limited supply available.

Excuse me.

As a result, most dealerships are telling me

that I would have to ask for an allotment

and pay sticker price.

Is there any idea either of you have to get a better deal

with such a particular vehicle as in paying under MSRP?

What are your thoughts, Dad, when it comes to this?

Well, here's your issue.

The two brands that have the smallest day supply

are Toyota and Lexus.

And so when you're looking at a 2026 Lexus RX 500 Hybrid,

and we know that their manufacturing capabilities

at this point pretty much match up to what their sales are.

So it is as close to on-time manufacturing

for on-time sales as you're ever going to find.

It becomes a little more difficult to get a deal

where that is going to be willing to work with you.

And the Lexus RX is the 10th fastest selling vehicle

in the United States right now.

So just commenting there, it is literally in the top 10

of the hundreds of vehicles per sale right now

in terms of how fast that it's selling.

And what I was going to say is just because they're selling

quickly, that's not to say that you might not or cannot

find a dealer that would be willing to work with you

a little bit.

Are you going to be able to get 10% off of MSRP?

No.

Are you going to get 5% off?

Probably not.

Could you maybe get 1% off?

Maybe if you find a dealer that you can develop

a relationship with.

It is the type of situation where A, you are going to have

to put a deposit down on an allocated vehicle

and wait for it to come in.

And you're just going to have to do your best

to get that dealer to want to be willing to work with you

at least a little bit on the MSRP.

Absolutely.

Again, folks, a friendly reminder if we can help you out

with anything, caredge.com in particular.

We are offering $150 off our car buying service right now.

From start to finish, we do it all for you.

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negotiation, paperwork review, delivery logistics, all that.

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And you can get a free consultation call with our team

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Just go to caredge.com slash concierge.

And our team, many of these members of our team

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So please check it out back at caredge.com.

And then Car Edge Pro, the tools we use to get the best deal,

that's 15% off right now.

So do it yourself first.

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Dad, we had a really thoughtful contribution come in

from our friend Rich Diana.

Good to see you, Rich.

I hope this doesn't trigger Ray, the Mercedes Imperator.

What a strange name for a vehicle.

Here you go, Dad.

Is this your new ride?

And more importantly, if you got in it,

do you think you could get out of it?

Well, let me answer the second question first.

If I got in it, do I think I could get out of it?

No, I think you would be burying me in that vehicle.

So I don't know if I have a big enough plot

next to your mother's grave site for you to bury me

in that damn car.

But yeah, what an interesting looking automobile.

Yeah, it doesn't trigger me.

It looks like the perfect vehicle for Rich and something

that could be compelling for me once I'm dead.

Yeah.

Well, Beth, don't think my grave site is big enough

for you to bury me next to your mother.

I don't think it is.

Exactly what I wanted to be about.

Yeah, I think we would have needed a triple, not a double.

All right, we've got a snow day here in Washington, DC.

Does anyone want me to walk over to the window

and show you how beautiful it looks outside?

Yes, no?

Dad, do you want to see?

Sure, absolutely.

I think the world be...

My apartment's such a freaking mess right now.

That's why you got to be really strategic.

People's a mess.

Yeah, I got to be really strategic.

OK, we're walking like this.

Keep it very close.

Yeah, yeah.

I can't see anything.

They can't tell there's a mess.

Can't you get your bed today?

Dude, I haven't done anything.

Oh, my.

There we go.

Wow.

Oh, that one.

We just kind of wait out there.

Yeah, we got a lot of snowmen.

Yeah.

Very beautiful.

Very, very beautiful.

Yeah, we should do a little apartment tour one day.

I can show everyone all my dad memorabilia

that's around my apartment.

But anyway, we'll save that for another day.

Yeah, I think we should,

unless you want to lose the audience instantly.

No, not instantly.

I'd like to lose them over time.

Just kidding.

We are nothing without our community.

We appreciate everyone being a part of our community.

All right, folks, if we can help you out with anything,

check it out, partedge.com.

Again, a huge thanks to Joe Lewis from JC Lewis.

And that enjoy the upcoming weekend.

I've got some fun plans, so I hope you do as well.

And can't wait to be back with you on Monday.

Yeah, my plans are laundry,

change the sheets on my bed, and well, eat too much.

We had similar, but such different weekends.

I love you, Dad. Enjoy.

I love you too, handsome.

See you all back here Monday.

And as I like my friendly reminder,

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0:00

41:06

The Car Market Has FINALLY FLIPPED | Ford, Mazda & Lincoln Dealer Explains | Episode 976

Toyota Camry

Toyota Rav4

Toyota Tacoma

Ford F-150 Raptor

Lincoln

dealer fee

back-end

2024 Ford

Lincoln Aviator

recall stop sale

rebate

recall percentage

manufacturer incentive

discount

Lincoln Navigator

Mazda Cx50

certified pre-owned vehicles

Carvana

digital used car retailer

negotiating the price

Honda Civic

taxes and fees

Lincoln Mkc

Lincoln Corsair

trade-in

financing offers

hybrid powertrain

internal combustion engine

engine fires

fuel efficiency

Lexus Rx

Lexus RX 500h

About this episode

Original notes