The Future of the Collector Car Market, Flying Bentley Drones, and Worst Value Cars EP21

hello and welcome to this car pod I'm

Kenan I'm felipo and today we're going

to talk about cars let's dive into it

with the news yes so there's been some

leaks about the new m2cs is coming this

was the ultra high performance version

of the M2 in the previous generation

they're going to do it again with this

one now of course details aren't

official with this as BMW hasn't said

anything themselves but a reported BMW

Insider who leaked the last one also

talking about this car and purportedly

it's going to have five 125 horsepower

which is insane how much horsepower does

the normal M2 have so 473 they're about

so but this car this car I believeable

slot below the M4 CSL but above the M4

competition in terms of power and like

the BMW hierarchy of the the smaller

performance cars regardless uh some

other things that they've said is that

this car will not have a manual

transmission option it be automatic only

which you know big surprise BMW has

really does not want to put their

manuals in cars now they also have not

released any or they haven't any power

figures about this Doug is just act very

hard thumbs Downing that which because

doesn't it pop up a thumbs down thing if

I do not show that anyway no but yeah it

it does stink that it won't have a man

because of all of the cars in the bmd

range that should have a manual it's the

M2 and m2cs that's the driver focused

car

smallish and it and it's supposed to be

like the most like Enthusiast Focus car

so surprising it doesn't get a manual

but we you know again none of this is

really confirmed we'll see it's supposed

to come out next summer I believe is

when the car will be it won't have a

manual there's no like waiting for this

I'm telling you this is the end I just

did a video it's not live yet but I just

did a video on future classic new cars

and the M3 stick and the M2 are it this

is it everybody's like oh they're so

ugly people complain about how cars are

ugly and then 25 years later they think

they're the coolest things in the world

this is it I'm telling you the m2cs is

the beginning of the end they're all

going to be tip going forward they're

all going to be plugin hybrid four

cylinders going forward This is the End

Kenan you thought BMW turned it back on

Enthusiast when they came out with the

x7x drive 40i no they they're turning

their back on Enthusiast when they come

out with the uh the next M4 which has a

Turbo Hybrid supercharged two-cylinder

with 964 horsepower and it weighs 11

million pounds yeah well okay so they

gave us a cold shoulder with the X7 this

is turning the back so like we're there

I I totally agree with everything you

said about the other cars too the fact

you can get manuals and those is really

important and that's what will make them

desirable in the future I have a hunch

despite the fact they have Beaver no

looking face is the M2 the only the M2

and M3 are the only cars in their

segments that come with the manual right

Cadillac Cadillac is yeah and the the

WRX as well technically exists in the

same in the same as the M3 but which WRX

competes with the M3 I I don't disagree

but if you want a manual sedan they're

really our own those are your options

basically the segment is manual sedan I

mean that's how become add the Civic SI

to that then sure great well wait the

key of forte still comes with famous M3

competitor you're right all right we're

moving

on all right no this is a great topic

I'm glad you pulled this up filipo you

read about this you're probably upset

about this I'm not upset about this so

I'm excited to hear we okay all right

Mazda has come has announced that the

remote start feature which was

previously and some other things which

are previously part of their remote

Services is going to now charge a

monthly subscription now this this

headline I don't know if you read the

whole story it's kind of an interesting

story the headline was this and people

are absolutely up in arm angry about

this however the feature that we're

talking about has always been

subscription based but Mazda offered it

for free when you first bought your CX9

you got three years for free and Mazda

has extended that time um for free and

finally they've stopped making the

extensions and now you're going to have

to pay for it um so it's actually

they've actually been very generous with

the consumer here I I I don't I imagine

that a lot of dealers did a bad job of

communicating this to their customers

for sure I don't find this objectionable

it's like an extra feature that I would

actually be okay with it be being

subscription based I would just purchase

it when I cared about that service does

this does this have a cost in my Sequoia

filipo I I I don't know

man also you live in Southern

California when have you ever had to

remote start a vehicle want the air

conditioning it's out front right now

let's see if I can remote start it I've

never paid for anything did you download

the to Toyota app yeah yeah I got the

app here it's right here yeah yeah yeah

yeah right there um yeah let's find out

oh I can start it this is great well

maybe you'll have to pay in like two

years and six months that's right I I

don't just I I imagine people were dis

are disappointed because they weren't

informed of this but I like okay how

much does it cost I right that's a fair

question I I cared more when everybody

was up in arms about BMW having heated

seats be a subscription yeah that's kind

of like that's yeah what is that you

purchased the feature on an expensive

car already right but like a monthly

subscription for something that is liter

like you pay monthly subscription for

everything else this seems like a

reasonable additional service that

you're paying for if you care yes it's

also not that expensive I just had a

whole thing you can get it it's like 13

20 bucks it's not crazy money I had a

whole thing I wouldn't pay that

obviously but like going but if it's a

feature that is important to you you

could see it yeah and like if you LIF

somewhere where it's cold in the winter

time you want to start that car you know

it's nice I also get like I mean people

are used to it's also just a way

different feature than remote St used to

be where you have to be 5T away from the

car and hold down that button in the key

fob or have a separate key fob that's

not that anymore and like it makes sense

that the model would have to change yeah

yeah um it is an interesting thing

though because it's kind of the

beginning like like remote start is

maybe less objectionable than some of

these things because it's kind of app

included anyway but it is the beginning

of what's coming pretty soon fipo

they're going to charge you extra for

headlights you know but I don't talk to

me about Headlights man bad day for

headlights we'll get to that we'll get

to there we'll get to that okay move on

to the next news story all right oh yes

this heinous thing I have so much to say

about this okay yeah they they they

they've formally announced pricing for

the electric version before we go any

further Kenan do you know what this car

is called look at it I mean it looks

like it wants to be a smooth Challenger

like that's it looks like it's a

challenger right it's a twodo here's a

crazy fact for you here's an

unbelievable fact for you okay they have

they're now coming out with a charger

and you know how they have the charger

the four-door and the Challenger the

twoo they're all going to be called the

charger now correct no I don't

understand why there's a two-door

charger and a four-door charger the

Challenger name even though it was an

absolute hero name yeah to certain

communities now it's gone so do you

think this is because the Mustang like

the Mach e or like the Mustang Mach was

a four-door and like the Mustang is a

twood door and now they're like they

just using the strength of their

stronger brand which is the Challenger

because they're not Challenger which I

think is stronger no sense it is one of

the craziest things I've ever seen done

by any automaker here's the worst part

of this you'd think oh just the EV

version is called a charger because you

charge it did you charge it the gas

version is also called a

charger the okay so talk to us about

price where pricing has been announced

there was a leak a day or two ago that

it was going to and and but now we have

formal price pricing uh it's going to

start at just shy of $60,000 without

destination 615 with destination um

that's about 15 grand more than the

last charger Challenger last equivalent

um the Scat Pack which is the upgrade

model will will start around 73k okay it

is eligible for the EV tax credit so

that's $7,500 if you're if you meet

whatever phase out requirements um we

don't know four-door pricing yet and we

don't know the gas version pric

yet yeah well the gas version isn't

coming for a while apparent it's for

like another year which is I think wild

60 Grand doesn't seem bad for the size

of the car and like the EVS are just a

little bit more expensive in this

category there are no other muscle car

EVS but I find the way they're doing

this wait wait wait wait wait excuse me

there is a Ford Mustang

electric crossover yes um can I tell you

guys about few things that this car has

that I find fascinating sure one's fake

sound what one is fake sound what else

okay fake sound which is called the Frat

zonic

exhaust the god the there is a package

or something that is standard the

standard engine battery motor I don't

know the standard thing it's called

direct connection stage one that is the

base power train okay it has 496

horsepower 400 pbet of torque

the upgraded one that you can buy as an

option or maybe just the scatback

unclear still it's called direct

connection stage

two you know what this reminds me of

felipo it reminds me of Jeep four-wheel

drive remember when I couldn't figure

out all the different four-wheel drive

terminology what other company is naming

their EVS direct connection stage one

and direct connection stage two you're

missing the point it's it's a stage one

that's what people in the tuner culture

say stage stage man that's what we say

me and Ken know when we go to Volkswagen

meets which we do in cognito uh we

always talk about how our GTI is a stage

three am I right that's right I always

put on my flat bill hat grab my uh box

mod and head to one of those mates you

know you making fun of GTI people you're

over here spending 12 Grand a second on

your car and you're making fun of GTI

people they're car c s can you go to the

next photo yes they also are the only EV

that I can think of that advertises that

they have a pistol grip shifter in their

EV every other EV has gone to Let's

shift using the touchcreen let's have a

single button no that isass we're have a

pistol grip shifter is it a this is

going to be a weird this is going to be

a weird meeting of electric and gas car

people and Dodge doesn't know how to

handle it yet I will say the there's

going to be a gas version of this car

too despite early updates that there

wouldn't be there's going to be a gas

version of this car too and I have a

suspicion that most people are just

going to ignore this thing and just buy

the gas verion I hate say absolutely

especially when you're pricing it at

some of these 68 81,000 I mean Scat Pack

at 82 before yeah ander's destination is

like is like $24,000 too uh the Scat

Pack is a starts of

73 including destination um you get my

point just who are they going like I

don't know it's cool I think it's really

interesting that they're doing this and

that they're trying so hard to still be

muscle Cari by naming it the direct

connection stage two power

train and having an exhaust that sounds

vaguely V8 esque but that's not but who

that's not what people want who are they

hoping will want the com that

combination of things I want they're

hoping that they're going to convert

people from from from V8 cars because it

s it's it's fast still and it sounds and

speaking can we talk about the sound do

we have the clip to play all if not all

acted out it sounds like

please we do have it I don't know if

Kenan has it up I do not I'm G it's all

right you can't hear honestly to be

perfectly honest I think they posted it

on Instagram and they were like check

this out and it was like uh that really

didn't sound like much um frat Sonic

exhaust it it just it I'm really

intrigued to see who buys it whether

they sell any I mean the from like an EV

perspective it has good power this the

Scat Pack 3.3 second 0 to 60 which is

more than sell though at 70 whatever

thousand to the kind of crowd that that

want like the electric car buyer and the

muscle car buyer are not then again

maybe there are people that have a

muscle car want a muscle car still want

300 mil of range which does in theory

has but don't want it to look like an

electric car and well do you and and are

willing to spend 75 thou do you know any

of these people did you kenon I think

they all live in Orange County NOP the

muscle car people I know just want to do

big fat burnouts yeah but they like the

noise the noise is such a huge part they

rightfully but they live in Orange

County it's it's like Rich Republicans

in states that are like Eco like you

know it's there it is

orange that's where all the hum EVS are

every time I see a hum e it's up

there rep want to be in California yeah

Orange County generally well we'll

includ in adjacent yeah okay we're off

the rails like this car they will sell

four of these fortunately they come out

with a gas version and Ken's going to

buy it give us T hurricane all right

okay next story is also FCA related I

can't believe you put this as this isn't

a news story sure it is the Ram 1500

classic which was the last generation

Ram maybe two generations ago now now

that they've had like a full Fai lift um

is going out of production next year oh

no it will have been in production for

15 years but there is actual news here

Beyond it going out of production after

15 years um it's going to be the end of

the Hem V8

Ram all right all right uh wait go back

go back go back kenon can you do

something for me can you pull up a

picture of a 2003 Dodge Ram I think we

probably pld a few of these on the site

fipo knows what I'm goingon to say of

course

go pull up a picture of an 03 Ram we've

sold a nice we sold a nice red one if

you want to pull it up two yeah okay

fine just okay all right oh that's the

wer truck pull up that blue one yeah

that works too can you tell the

difference between that truck and the

one that was purportedly just cancel the

real question is can you tell the

difference between the one that was just

canceled and the one that came after it

that's only on the inside I will say

they did a major interior upgrade I I

just find it annoying that the the

domestic manufacturers have just decided

that like their pickups look like this

and that's what they're going to look

like when I was a kid when you

redesigned a pickup you redesign a

pickup do you remember in 97 no you guys

don't but when I was a kid in 97 the

F-150 was redesigned it was a wild thing

it went from being this Square thing

that that like commercial truck people

bought to this like crazy looking swoopy

90s thing that like divorced dads could

buy it was great and everybody and with

the worst crash test rating the magic b

um famously uh but here's the thing in

1994 killed a few people yeah in 1994

Dodge came out with the second gen RAM

and they that the styling of that truck

changed everything in the pickup truck

World 1995 Dodge Ram is the best looking

pickup truck of all time I remember

watching Bill Paxton drive it through a

house correct uh and thinking to myself

this is the single coolest thing

I firstage they have stay with that

design language since I if I had that

truck right now I would run over kenon

and be like yep I did it I mean normal

Thursday I get run over a lot by doging

his pickup truck too bad those all

rusted out or had banned transmission

when when you nail it that you when you

really nail it 30 years ago stick with

it Lamborghini you you develop a design

and then you just kind of stay with it

yep best looking truck of all time okay

give us speaking of uh bizarre news

stories K this has been the most bizarre

new design that hasn't changed this is

the most insane news story I've ever

heard in my life so this is a wild one

so recently Bentley Motors filed a

patent for a drone that can be deployed

from the car to help you find it now

this is to help you find your car in the

parking lot because let's be honest most

Bentley customers are getting on an age

and might forget where their car is but

also allegedly for emergency services if

there's a problem with the car you can

deploy the will being a Bentley it will

break down at some point um and and this

is one of the patents that they filed

that part of the car will fly away and

will be a drone now I suspect that it

won't look like a Continental GT from

years ago and a drone that it looks way

bigger than the I don't think it will be

as wide as the grill in this depiction

but this idea Bentley wants to to get

into which I think is one of the most if

if true will be one of the most bizarre

features think okay so what we have here

and depicted here we have a UFO

attacking a 2007 Continental

GTC correct I'll tell you it's tough

this is bad news um it's really just

aiming straight for the ended B this is

a crazy news story but let me tell you

can I I have always theorized the

following thing and it's it's a

brilliant Theory and I'm glad to see it

coming to fruition I have always

theorized that when cars became electric

the automakers would have nothing to

distinguish the cars from each other in

they had they started just coming out

with crazy features and so this is a

good example like the the difference in

powertrain and Driving Experience is all

going to start to be pretty minimal and

so automakers are going to have to start

coming out with wild stuff and I think

you will see drones you will see incar

basketball courts you will see uh I know

you think it's nuts you are you're not

gonna think it's nuts in 20 years buddy

you're not how big is this car you're

over here like oh Doug's an idiot we'll

be playing we'll be [ __ ] we'll be

playing be playing some horse inside

long long ago Doug and I played ping

pong in a Hummer so maybe just AAL

extension and Monopoly no but I'm

serious okay here's my thinking okay you

like to work out like right like you

like to like wake up like fipa you wake

up and pump on you know it yeah well

what if you could wake up and then while

your self-driving electric car drives

you to work you that's when you do your

workout which in our in kenon in my case

involves a nice pickup game of

basketball every morning can we so this

is also the most Bentley old school does

not want to adapt to technology patent

magal Tesla's vision for the same

problem is we'll just have the car come

to you because technology has advanced

there's cameras there there's radar

owner Bentley's like now we're going to

have a drone fly to you well to be clear

I think they put for from what I read

you have to walk to the car from what I

read it is more if you're stranded to

help alert people to where you are is

like their angle with it but it will be

used to find your car wall parking lot

is exactly what it will why doesn't the

Drone pick you up combining those two

let's say you're walk the car to pick up

the car itself just that's event ways

more than the moon the Drone picks you

up like a pterodactyl and takes you to

the car why don't they do that um I'm

sorry Kon you said that it weighs more

than the moon the propriate comparison

is that I think it weighs more than a

new M5 oh nice no nothing is that heavy

nothing is that heavy let's not be

ridiculous but this is the this is the

Bentley drone how Wild none of these new

stories make any sense let's move on to

other things fipo tell me about your

headlights yeah all right I have a 2014

Mercedes E350 wagon that's our like

family daily driver my wife was coming

home from a work trip north of LA and

she called me I was like Hey a warning

came up in in the gauge cluster that

says check front left headlight and then

like subsequent ones came up said you

check front left indicator light and

then front right headlight Etc so she

came home fine I looked at it and a fuse

had had blown and I ordered some fuses

and placed it and it just blew

immediately yeah that's not good

yesterday I already had an appointment

to bring it up to to the shop so they

looked at it and they traced it back to

the front left headlight something is

wrong with it that's causing that

circuit to just blow some we don't know

what um so looking into that going I try

to fix that but that's why I'm

frustrated with the headlights well that

now to be clear recently there was an

incident in that car months ago there

was a small accident and and that

headlight was replaced

little supicious

um and have a call out to the shop that

did that repair work filip's wife ran

into a

gardener yeah yeah actually I mean the

truck of a gardener uh but yeah um

uh by the way we have uh the license

plate on that car is a never is a never

forget 911 Rememberance plate

um and we really think that that

gentleman was much friendlier to my wife

as a result of that license plate well

that's actually the subject of one of

the questions from our audience which

we'll get to momentarily but regardless

you have headlight problems and I I have

a query for the group on Saturday

morning I have to drive to Northern

Arizona and I will be coming back late

late late Sunday night yeah I I have

three options do I drive a Mercedes

where One Headlight because the we

disconnected the front left the right

headlight so Works do I drive a f500

Barth for 1,000

miles which has horrible headlight car

you got to run a car dude this is the

problem exactly the problem this is the

problem okay when you're already you're

aging out of this and and this is where

you're going to go but like people are

always like oh Doug he doesn't drive

beaters anymore you know he doesn't he

doesn't have the

F because at some point you get to a

point in your life where like you don't

have time to deal with like this kind of

crap with like 14-year-old cars that are

worth six grand and and and the problems

that they thatc yesterday I was talking

to my wife about

leasing oh oh my God here we go

wow a mock E I assume is what you're

talking about no but there are some

great Le right now um well we'll talk

about it on one of the upcoming podcast

episodes okay but do I did book a Toyota

camer similar so that'll be

exciting uh no it won't actually that is

literally the definition of unexciting

um and I say that as the first person to

have driven the uh the new Toyota Camera

yes person number 34 I believe but yeah

you know first person the first person

outside of Toyota okay right and it was

memorable right one of one of yes one of

the crown jewels in your Automotive

career you know on that subject I was

the first person to drive the your Camry

and I remember when when um when I would

read magazine I interrup a second there

we do you do have a review of the camera

it hasn't come out yet but come out

little with it I remember when I used to

read magazine articles and they would

say we we drove this car long before it

was released and the public response was

huge and I was always kind of like whoa

driving a car before it's released wow

that must be so cool and now that I've

done this a bunch of times I can assure

you there is no public

response that was all lies those guy

those journalists in the 90s thought

they were really cool driving like the

new Pontiac Grand Dam nine weeks before

it went on sale nobody cared actually

hey when they were driving the restyled

F-150 that was some real stuff you

know well no because all trucks now look

how they looked in 2004 um I only want

to do one more talk cars topic because

we have a special market report segment

coming on momentarily Kenan we want to

talk about Monteray you're going to

Monteray car week yes very excited

cannot wait I you're not going with him

I'm not but a lot of our uh ban sales

and then other members of our team are

going to be there well you should go Ken

what are you going to do you spent two

grand to go the quail no so I so I did

not get tickets to go to the quail

Unfortunately they we were all basically

everybody I know including Doug although

Doug was Doug didn't get them because he

was lazy and forgot to apply for them

but no no I just apply I put I put the

wrong request in I put the wrong request

in well that's that so I sign up for an

email list instead

yes yeah like a complete like it just oh

my God what an O but yeah so he he's not

going anyway um but yeah no I did not

get tickets to the coil year I did go

last year was lovely event um they they

I think they have realized that there is

such a secondary market for tickets they

can charge a lot more for them and

they're going to do that Christian von

kig Sig is GNA be at the quail you're I

saw him waiting for the bathroom you

know I last year saw Hario Pagani set

yeah it is cool to be around people I

got hobnobbing with Christian von k no

no I don't you agree that if you were

there you and Christian would probably

have a dinner you know the only thing

that I would do if I were there would be

to find the Carson B K car booth for to

get some photos taken no but so yeah so

the only events we've nailed down for

sure we're we're definitely doing uh

concorso Italiano I've never done it and

I would very much like to obviously can

you events for our listeners or for

filipo that don't know well that's one

based on the name uh that's a cono is a

wonderful Italian car show pandas

because I would go yeah no they have

everything it's mostly sports cars but

if you registered a fat Panda they would

take you and you could show up right

they have some weird stuff there people

bring like 600 multiplas and old 500s

and all that stuff yeah very excited for

that one have never done it before um

we're going to a lot of the the auction

previews is one of the big parts of the

week and a lot of major auction houses

also are there um so we're going to go

do a lot of that stuff uh we're going to

an event that Avant is holding as well

which I'm I'm very excited about um and

really we're spending just a lot of time

in Carmel like we just want to be around

carel and just like see that I think

that's one of the great Joys is seeing

stuff just driving around K yes Ken

you're going to the auction previews but

we cars and bids are an auction platform

be some of the auctions as well to be

clear k has the pre auctions already

that's what you do when you're there you

know kenan's gonna be recruited Away by

RM to help them auction Fiat topolos by

the way speaking of RM they got like

career GTS and stuff coming up

and yep seen it been there are you aware

kenon that that RM is selling mint green

F40 yes I am which horrible absolutely

horri I mean it is our color admittedly

it's one of our colors think we should

buy that right that off as a comfy

expense slap some cars and vids uh it's

one of our colors but I wouldn't paint I

mean I I wouldn't paint there's a lot of

things I wouldn't paint that color that

works for us that doesn't work for them

it's it's like how you know filipo can

wear his giraffe shirt but when you put

it on an actual giraffe it doesn't

reallyit yeah okay I want to move on to

our next do we have anything more to say

about car we what would you recommend

doing so like we're we're we just you

like to walk around go to like the

parking lots of a lot of these events

cuz there's I don't go to any events I

just like to walk around the parking

lots and see the the cars and and what I

really try to do this is the real key

you try to see a Bugatti and you try to

get a picture of it not with any other

special cars behind it you know like get

a picture of it next to like an Outback

and an Accord take a picture and then in

like a month send the picture to people

and be like look what I saw you know

because that they if you send it right

away they'll know you saw it at car week

but if but if you wait on it you're they

old people like whoa you saw Bugatti

damn nice yeah wait wait to post on

visit on Facebook until later on but

yeah right yes exactly no those are what

you do I would also suggest going to the

racetrack on Saturday to see the old

cars race I'm not a racing fan and I'm

not an old car fan but watching a 250

GTO driving anger and those people

really do drive them in Anger oh yeah uh

because they're incredibly rich and they

don't care um that's very special Shelby

Daytona CPS running that's very cool uh

and I S I suggest going to the concour

on the uh on Main Street or whatever in

Carmel and then watching the tour

delegant because the thing about one of

the really I don't really go to the

concur delegant anymore which is on

Sunday because it's so hoyy toyy and

stuff you and all that but but on on

Thursday or something they do the tour

deligance on 17 Mile Drive and all the

cars drive and if you want to win Pebble

Beach um you want to accumulate as many

points as possible for your car and one

of the things that adds points to you is

if you go on the tour and so almost

every serious entrant goes on the tour

so you can actually see some of the old

cars moving which in my opinion is

almost even cooler than seeing it just

sitting on the lawn next to people

wearing cool hats can we get one piece

of advice to people that are going 17 M

Drive I find one of the weirdest

situations because you have to like go

through like a toll booth to enter

correct you don't have to go through a

toll booth during the car week oh they

you don't okay I went right before car

we still there but you just lie to them

so weird yeah you just kind of wave if

you if you just keep moving just W Hey

man nice to see you again y exactly the

year that I the last year that I went I

had a Subaru press car for some reason I

don't even remember why and I would just

tell the guy I'm here with Subaru he was

like all right go ahead go ahead and at

the at the last day of the event I

discovered that Subaru did not have an

official pres I I

completely they wer even there they have

so many car like the the the automotive

Community just descends on the peninsula

like the whole world descend so there

just so many people so yeah truly like

but yeah the Box spers were even the E39

M5 just got let through without any

issues no what about the G wagon are

driving around we'll say we're we're a

Jeep yeah let's tell them you're with

Jeep okay our next segment is the market

report segment and we have a special

guest today uh in John Taman who runs

curated one of the finest Automotive

dealerships in the history of the world

with crazy incredible amazing cars and

he's here to talk about some cars he's

selling on cars in bids and the market

in general let's do it okay let's start

our market report by talking old AMG

John tamaran you're here with us your

dealership curated one of the finest

collections of crazy automobiles on the

planet has you've got this listed with

us right now this 500c AMG 6.0 please

tell us about it so I I am personally in

love with this car uh just because we've

we've for 10 years now we've been buying

Prem merger amgs uh we've been very

lucky enough to own five or six of the

original hammers uh we've had now

probably 10 uh sec's in different

various uh variations wide bodies and

all these different cars um what I love

about this car is you never really find

these old tuner cars with their original

documents um and and I think we've seen

one or two other Prem merger amgs with

original AMG paperwork yeah and we had

the opportunity to buy this car from

from its original owner in Germany and

it came with everything so he didn't

just send it to AMG Germany once he

actually sent it twice um and it's

really cool because if you read through

the paperwork they even Dino tested the

engine which I didn't know was a thing

at the time with AMG and so I just fell

in love with sort of the pedigree you

know and these old tuner cars um I think

in in my hisory in my career I've seen

one other kig tester Roa that had a a a

book of paperwork um because let's face

it these cars went to celebrities drug

dealers they didn't go to the guy

keeping all of his records right right

right

um and so to see a car that's a real six

liter documented six liter I know

there's some questions in the auction

about that um but it's documented we've

checked it um and and also what's cool

is you know so the the hammer cars have

the 32 valve engine so the the the big

heads you know they're called 4cam cars

um and and they're the higher horsepower

they're the more famous they

historically bring six 700,000 $800,000

sometimes but what I love about this car

is the single overhead cam with the six

liter is actually it's very reliable

whereas the Hammers and the 4 cam cars

they leak they have issues the heads are

porous so this is a car that has almost

the same horsepower almost the same

experience as the bigger engines um or

as say as the cars with the the

different heads but it has the very

reliable single out over head Cam and

and and it's a six liter so it revs

quick it's fast and it's just it's so

good

looking you know honestly I'm in love

I've driven this car a lot um and I I

never drive inventory but it's just so

good and it's so cool it's so cool it

the 500 FC the the big body 126

convertibles all looked pretty cool but

when you take the AMG stuff and you put

that on it it looks like the boss car

that you really wanted it to be back

then exactly it's someone you don't want

to cut off in traffic in that era it's

it's a bad guy drives that car imagine

that though seriously in Germany in the

80s I mean there were all these trashy

little hatchbacks driving around and

then some dude had this so this was a

one-owner car John you bought it from

the original owner we bought it from the

original owner um he had done some

restoration work to the car uh so he

redid All the wood uh he repainted the

car I mean the car presents so nicely uh

it does not present even as a which

51,000 miles is 51,000 KM is low but it

actually presents way better than that

um and it just it runs beautiful I mean

it just you know that's what's cool

about it as well yeah it looks nice

inside the the wood I'm not surprised to

hear has been redone all these 124s and

126s the wood would would crack youd

take get these long cracks going cloudy

as well they're known for that um so

yeah he he did he actually did a very

nice job of maintaining the car over the

years and and it's honestly I think

someone's going to have a blast with

this car it's it just yeah it looks the

part yeah it totally looks part tell us

this Market the the Prem merger AMG

Market has kind of as as AMG has grown

and become a bigger and bigger and

bigger brand in entity and kind of like

so many other things turned away from

sort of the very early humble beginnings

the humble beginnings have become a lot

more interesting and desirable to

enthusiasts and collectors tell us about

what the that market is like well they

are I mean when you think about it when

we first started it will be hitting our

10th year this year um I'll never forget

uh I I one of my favorite

magazine articles of all time was Rod

and track it's the cover I think it's

December 1987 and it's 288 GTO roof

Yellowbird AMG Hammer Kos downdraft it's

all these great cars and it's even isera

is is is in The Bu and and you see this

cover and I I I read it as a kid um now

you fast forward and you think it's that

those covers and it was the roof

Yellowbird and the AMG Hammer that

actually broke records at the time y it

those cars those moments that changed

the world um you know to think of the

tuning industry especially for European

Exotics started at that moment um and

then at that moment when you talk about

29 hammers in the world you talk about

maybe 50 of these sec's with a six liter

in the world right and today that same

brand is selling thousands of

cars so you think of this really special

moment and at the time when we first

started I mean there were AMG Hammers

and sec's like this for 2030 grand um

when roof yellowbirds were trading a lot

more they were 5 600,000 at the time so

we bought our first AMG Hammer I'll

never forget a young guy Stephen Duncan

Peters who now works with us taught me

all of the little nuances he's we call

him am genius um and and he taught me

all the nuances and you know I it's a

it's funny because I GRE up my father's

repair shop was down the street from

hartm moot file at rentech and hartmut

uh if you know a little bit of story of

rentech was one of the first Engineers

from AMG Germany to move over to the US

to help the new AMG North America

importer to basically bring these cars

from Europe and and make them popular in

the US so imagine as a young kid here I

am my dad's servicing Lamborghini

countes and I'm seeing these like German

muscle cars fly down the street and I

just became enamored by them um and it

it struck me as such a young guy my

dad's like what are you looking at those

stupid cars for um and and I it just

occurred to me you know with Stephen's

input I'm like wait these cars are way

too special yeah they such a big impact

in the world why are they not being

there there was no demand at the time

for them um and our first AMG Hammer we

paid

$100,000 um I I I sold it for a small

profit I should

kept car recently it was the AMG Hammer

prototype we found out afterwards uh the

silver car that was on the cover of the

magazine yeah and uh the the owner

turned down a million dollars um so so

you know I think these cars are are

being appreciated now uh people are

collecting them there's there's massive

AMG collections that's just so cool to

see but the world is looking at the

tuner cars of the 80s and 90s as now

these are coach build cars of the Next

Generation I mean they really are and

they're I man I could go on and on about

this and AMG is particularly special

because then they got kind of absorbed

into Mercedes-Benz and so there really

is sort of this early very trickle of

cars kind of history that then became a

a gushing and that's true of so many

Brands I mean you look at basically

anything from the Ferrari and

Lamborghini that used to make a small

number of cars and now make a big number

and that small number is very prized the

cars from that era and it makes total

sense that this has kind of started to

become special one of the interesting

things that I've that always comes up

whenever one of these cars comes up for

sale is um provance like it's hard to

some there's people out there trying to

fake these cars or there are people who

in Period put on body kits that were and

now it's hard to figure that stuff out

and so that's an important factor with a

car like this I was looking at the Docks

and it's pretty incredible to see all

that stuff totally agree um but that's

kind of a challenging thing like you

have to really prove it it's terrifying

and and even

you know a lot of the cars that you see

today are cars out of Japan and the

Japanese car culture was massive during

this period in the late 80s and early

90s and you know the question is what

are what is how do you verify those cars

now today most of those cars don't have

any paperwork so so it's very very

difficult you could fake a car if you

wanted to you could um you know but

something like this it's just again

finding this provenance and documents

um you know we're we're lucky enough to

be around enough experts it's it's a

cute story we recently discovered an AMG

hammer in Germany um we we bought it we

sent it back to hwa who's who's

basically amg's race division it's led

by Mr offre the A and AMG and I said

guys can you certify this for me can you

check it out so they called me back and

they're like well we we determined it's

one of the first prototypes and I'm like

how how did you do that the car doesn't

have paperworks they're like no one of

our employees remembers that he did

something underneath the car and his

part is still there you're Kidd it's

just the the these little nuances today

we're lucky that these people are still

with us um that they're they're still

working they're still in the industry

but beyond that there's no way to

determine what these cars are besides

paperwork besides the original employees

so now is an important time to document

these things I I think our as historians

is so imperative for Prem merger amgs

yeah yeah totally and and they are they

really are such special cars and this

one is so cool and it's been interesting

to watch this Market kind of rise and

these cars finally start to get some

real appreciation yes um on the subject

of cars you're also selling a couple

other cars with us uh one of the more

interesting ones is a Ferrari f355 race

car conversion that you have coming up

tell us about this

it's so insane this is probably one of

the most absurd cars that we've ever

taken on trade um and and you know what

like you you you sometimes we run a

boutique dealership but sometimes you

just do things that are are from your

you know your gut and your heart when I

saw a video of this car running I was

like okay done I'll take it um and it's

it's probably one of the best sounding

cars that I've ever heard um basically

years ago someone took this Street 355

car and wanted to go win basically

dominate this Challenge Series not the

original Challenge Series but there was

another challenge series that was

created later um by some by by some

really passionate Ferrari owners um and

the car was actually owned by the the

gentleman that also owns The Cannonball

Run Countach um so so he owned it for a

long time and if you look at the records

of this car it is like this insan M

commitment to build the world's fastest

na 355 and that was the goal so carbon

fiber door panels carbon fiber hood the

engine was built with 430 parts so they

they they basically took this engine

they punched out to over 400 horsepower

um and and change the compression I mean

the car is absolutely insane and it's

like the guy spent

$300,000 oh into this car so it's

definitely not something anyone's going

to well you could drive it on the road

but it's definitely not something you

know I I would recommend to drive on the

road um because it's like a weapon um it

sounds like a a sport bike I mean it

revs quick um it's insanely visceral and

and it's just so cool

um and it's one of those pieces that I

just you know when you hear it you're

like okay I gotta have that that's the

ultimate toy probably the most absurd

toy yeah what when when someone comes to

you with a vehicle like this and they

want to traded on something else how the

hell do you put a number on this car you

you you almost

can't you you you have to go with your

gut there's no there's no comps and the

guy's in it for way more I mean he's in

it for an insert amount of money and so

that's so that that's every 355 to be

clear I mean you see have a long enough

you get to $300,000 in it one way or

another exact you said it yeah you said

it no so I mean it's it's I mean he took

a massive loss obviously um and I was I

think I was very sensitive to that so I

I think I did give him a lot uh for the

car we'll see what it does um I am

taking a little bit of a you know going

to Vegas and putting it all on black but

um you know I think there's someone out

there that's as passionate as myself

that that's you know I don't need a toy

like this right now but man just the

sounds this thing makes and the way it

drives is insane and um you know if you

were crazy enough to put it on the

street you would have the most absurd

Street car ever I've never seen how do

you find all these cars you people come

to you because you now have a reputation

of having insane cars and so you end up

with just the I mean I follow you on

Instagram and I every week you're

posting some crazy new car that has come

in that that my friends all just send

each other around we

do well thank thank you that that means

a lot coming from you guys um I'm I'm a

massive fan of everything you guys do I

I'm just a car nerd at the end of the

day and I I just sort of let my heart

determine what comes to us you know when

we first started no one knew who we were

um you know we had a very small floor

plan and at that time it was purely

chasing um I had to dig and dig and dig

and I was dedicated to just finding

really special pieces that DNA has never

changed um I I I only buy what I love I

only buy what I would own I'm not a rich

guy I I do have a few cars myself um but

but at the end of the day you know any

given point we have 30 40 cars in

inventory whatever I've paid for I'm in

love with and and that's how I think

that's the reason we've been successful

um I've I've manifested cars by you know

saying I gotta find this no one's seen

it in 20 years where is it and and going

on a a wild goose chase and and through

that process I think the the the

automotive Community I'm very blessed to

say that I think we've been supported

enough where now people call us and say

hey I've got this unicorn and and are

you guys interested so so today we have

a lot of great things that are coming to

us but I still I have a wish list of

about 150

cars you know in the world uh most have

never haven't been seen in 10 20 30 40

years yeah and when you say when you say

you have a whistle you don't mean like

Lamborghini mura you're talking about V

you have vins you have specific yes and

that's how we started the business I I

put a list together of things pieces

that I thought were important and

unloved um and I think it's a big part

of our our DNA of like we're a big

supporter of the underdog and one of the

reasons why I love you Doug is you

you've done such a great thing in

talking about kashes and believing in

the Countach and and and listen kashes

do not make sense to me the price they

are today the price they were five years

ago I mean this is one of the most

important cars to ever grace this planet

and and I just think the way they've

impacted people in society I mean

whatever you believe or whatnot I mean

it embodies the American Spirit the

America you know Dream Maker

entrepreneurs I mean I can't tell you

how many clients I've met that come to

me and say you know the reason I went

and became a doctor or the reason I went

to college was because I had a Countach

on my wall and someone told me I

couldn't buy it and you know I think

that the spirit around that car the

magic that was happening at Lamborghini

at the time y inspired me years ago to

say okay I need to I need to like save

these cars and we need to get behind

special pieces and that's what I try to

do every day when I wake up is say

what's unloved what's what's the future

where is the future of collecting going

yeah and how can I help that's it well

it's so cool that you've done that like

you had you were looking at that

magazine cover and you ended up having

the AMG Hammer that was on it I mean

that's full Circle so I wish I knew that

it was that exact car at the

time now but yes it's it is full circle

let's talk Market because that's that's

kind of just in general even beyond the

cars that that you've got listed with us

what do you think I mean the the econ

there's been talk now for It's Gone on

for several years oh the economy is

slowing this is the end the recession is

coming the car the craziness in the car

market that we all saw in 2021 22 has

certainly cooled off but do you think

what do you think's coming I mean what

for all these cars where do you think

we're going in the next two five years

what's going to happen in the value of

my

CR there it is the real

question here here's my opinion I might

sound crazy for a second uh and and and

I'm not I'm I'm I'm this is coming from

the heart so it's not a you know and and

I'm not a financial analyst uh you know

I don't have a crystal ball um but I see

a future of this world like we've never

seen before um and the reason I say that

is when I was a kid my dad was servicing

an F50 and we went to a a test drive we

were at a gas station we actually picked

me up from school uh that same week and

no one knew what this car was there

wasn't a soul uh it was a red car it was

very loud and today the same effect at a

car show at anywhere you go there are

young people from 16 to

40 years old that can tell you oh that's

one of

349 oh uh you know I'll never forget

about three years ago we owned four

years ago we owned a green lp640 manual

um the only Coupe that was made for the

US it was actually Ed bolan's car and um

we had bought it um not from Ed we had

bought it from the the gentleman that he

sold it to and think about this for a

second we had a 12-year-old or

13-year-old walk in our showroom and say

oh that's one of 32 manual LP 640s

that's aon's

car and I'm like what right there is

there is Instagram has given us all

these things have given us the ability

to really learn about all these cars

more than the and and education is

everything knowledge is everything and I

think we have a younger generation today

that looks at these cars you know go

back 20 years the way we looked at

assets and wealth was totally different

than today

um and I don't care where you're at in

your life whether it's a family office

that's calling me for an investment

advice really or yes and it's happening

today I never had that 10 years ago um I

think you have a massive group of

younger individuals that are interested

in owning these cars out of passion but

they also love the idea that this is a

good asset you know you can touch it you

can feel it you know hopefully you're

you're it's not going to go to zero um

and and I think people are confident

today that they can drive and enjoy a

car if it goes up in value great if it

doesn't they still got the experience

and it's a secure asset um and I hate to

even use that term because I never

really looked at them you know in that

sense but it is an accepted alternative

asset today because of platforms like

yours you see the liquidity whether the

Market's going up or down it's accepted

and you have one factor that most

alternative assets do not have which is

passion and and that cannot be

duplicated replicated the passion in

this community today you have 80 million

users of Grand Turismo from years ago

you have social media you have YouTube

you have all these different things the

events we never had these events cars

and coffees everywhere so so I just

think we are in a trend where the 80s

and 990s cars that appealed and the

early 2000s cars that appealed to the

younger generation

today I I see Generations chasing the

same grouping of cars and I think that

will exponentially grow as time goes on

um unless manufacturers completely

change the future but I I see a younger

generation that are interested in this

last generation of analog cards I think

you really hit the nail on the head

there it all comes together especially

with the uncertainty about what the

future for automotive enthusists are

going to look like in terms of electri

electrification or going to hybrid or

the complexities of then owning those

cars for long per periods of time versus

the Simplicity of working on a Diablo

like we were talking about uh kind of

off Channel but there yeah there it is a

perfect Confluence of all of those

things so it's a really interesting time

to live through as a car Enthusiast I

agree I agree and you had more you have

more knowledge available today knowledge

is key education is key yeah totally on

on the subject of passion and purchases

can we talk about Ed for a second and

his

Insanity so Ed Bolan a friend of ours I

you know I lived I lived in Atlanta when

Ed was like just the Lamborghini sales

you knew him back then too I guess but

he wasn't none of us were anything you

know and but now he's he's uh been Wicky

he's killing it and and I'm doing this

and he just bought a Bugatti which is in

my opinion one of the craziest things

I've looked into those cars I thought

about getting one of those when I got my

kgt and I looked into the servicing cost

and it's just

unbelievably terrifying but Ed has

actually T I mean he drove I watched his

video he took it to your place and stort

it there for a couple of days you saw

this thing is he is he as crazy as I

think he is no I I mean to a certain

extent I think he knows he's slightly

crazy and we can all agree that Ed is

slightly crazy yeah um but that's part

of his genius and and I think that I

think that listen the Veyron Us cars are

very rare uh then you have the fact that

it was for a generation that is the most

impressive and significant car I think

when you think about the prices of

Ferrari hypercars and supercars it

doesn't make sense that a Veyron can

still be bought less than $2 million I

agree I think that Veyron is undervalued

but I am terrified by the ownership cost

and I think that's the reason it's

undervalued right yeah and 100% And I

think anybody should be terrified by the

ownership cost of the Bugatti recognizes

that too I mean like with the shiron

that came after the part of the point

was they want to make it a lot easier to

live with and like that's that's the

reality one when I when I went to the

shiron launch that's one of the first

things they told me they said we wanted

this C because because some of those the

reputation had kind of grown online

about the this cost this much and it

really has scared people away on the

secondary market and I think they were

sensitive to that I I think you're 100%

right I think Bugatti continue needs

needs to continue to support those cars

and come up with better plans I mean

it'll only it'll only help the value of

the newer cars as well um they have to

create a a network you know Ferrari's

done an incredible job of creating a

community and a network

but I I again I think the Veyron is a

Titan from that Generation Um I think

they're super cool they're probably

terrifying to own um I'm sure every time

Ed opens the door and turns on the key

says a you know he says a a prayer but

but you know the reality is listen I

think they're super undervalued I mean

that's that's relative saying um and

listen any of those cars in that let's

just say in that c category are going to

be somewhat expensive to maintain um

yeah you know the Bugatti is it it does

set a precedent but but nothing is going

to be you know affordable at this point

to maintain um you know with the

exception of honesty the the lambo

product I love because a merci Lago and

a Diablo is it it's not that expensive

to maintain I agree and I'm surprised

that the Kosh is not crazier than it is

too in fact I have a suspicion that my

career GT is going to cost me more to

own than than my will which is contrary

to the reputation of those cars we'll

see yes you're good with the clutch the

clutch is set you you've done the

suspension stuff we'll see I think

you're set for a while but you know I

have a buddy who just by chance who also

just bought a Veyron just some guy I

know not not a YouTuber or anything he

bought a month ago and he told me that

the four-year maintenance plan is

$55,000 and a 4year warranty is

$240,000 they will sell it to you but

it's $2

if the car is deemed certifiable God

it's a 360 challenge

stali

value it's a really really nice

car running right yeah what a ridiculous

thing where where do you see that market

you think those things are gonna are

gonna are going to go up as long as

Bugatti continues to support them yes I

I think as long as Bugatti supports it I

think as long as uh you know you look at

the price of the new car I mean it's I

think it's a $5

million um you know so I think that

doesn't hurt it you know I mean that

sounds so insane to even say yeah and

and I think again you know the Veyron

started the hypercar movement it did I

don't care what you say um so I think

just as a pure

collectibility um and it is actually

besides the maintenance cost it's

actually pretty usable um they're easy

to drive you know you could go to dinner

with your wife and it it's not you know

it's not going to give you any hiccups

or anything like that so that's the

party piece of that car is that it is it

is ultimately it can do the performance

but it can also be a Bentley around town

and that's that's what makes it so

special and I always compare it to an

Enzo I mean there's 399 Enzo in the

world uh Ferrari did produce more I

think it's like 500 or 550 but when you

do the numbers and Enzo today is 35 to

55 so how is a Veyron not the same

doesn't make sense no I like to your

point like we were discussing I've said

it many times and I stand by that it is

the Concord of Our Generation in terms

of Automotive Engineering it represents

a Zenith and also it brought Bugatti

back into the cultural Zeitgeist the

eb10 is really obscure and the pre-war

cars are a whole other thing but like

people know what a bugat a Bugatti is

because of that car and sotally kenon

we're going to regret we should be

hoarding Veyrons we should sell all the

cars useful consumer advice from you yet

again just everybody hoard your ve well

because let me tell you something you go

here's a story for you John I went on I

subscribed sports car market and I was

reading back through McLaren F1 sales in

sports car market and in like 2013 there

was a sale of one at montere and the a

guy paid three and a half and sports car

market analyzed the sale and said this

was the highest price ever paid and or

2008 I don't know what it was highest

price ever paid and um and it's a really

a lot of money but it's a very special

car maybe this guy maybe the buyer knows

something that the rest of us don't and

he did he did know

yeah and and now I'm sitting here like

am i g to have the same regrets about

not just

hoing because how do you know I mean

Veyron why is Veyron not like the

McLaren F1 it didn't win L mod but it is

the most the fastest car in the world it

did start the hyper car thing it was the

coolest thing for an entire generation

of people much like the McLaren F1 how

does does it become a20 million car

someday I could see that happening it's

listen if there's any car that it's

possible it's definitely uh a a special

variant of the Veyron um I I completely

agree I I think it's a it's you guys

nailed it Concord of a generation it is

I mean it's completely uh it was a game

changer really was and just like the

Concord ludicrously expensive to take

care

of out of commission of that's right all

right well John I really appreciate you

coming on our podcast and I appreciate

you talking car market with us and

selling some very cool cars on cars and

bids thank you so much for being you

guys thank you so so much it's an honor

to be here I'm a massive fan of

everything you do and and the entire car

Community thanks you

guys and you and all your crazy

inventory and reminding us that some of

these crazy cars still

exist thanks guys thanks bye John have a

good one bye guys okay next up time for

the Q&A questions questions remember

that you too can ask questions by going

to carsand bids.com click on the

community Tab and then there's a post

that says here's where you post your

questions for the podcast now this week

because our Market segment ran long

we're only going to do a couple

questions but we have we're going to do

The Future of the Collector Car Market, Flying Bentley Drones, and Worst Value Cars EP21

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