The Inside Story of Ford’s Insane New Mustang | AutoGuide Show Ep. 104

Welcome back to the AutoGuide show presented by eBay Motors.

We have a great episode for you this week.

We're going to take you deep inside Ford headquarters for an exclusive interview with

the man behind the brand new Mustang Dark Horse SC.

Stick around for that.

Then Mike joins me to talk about his latest gear test, an EV charger that may change your

mind about home charging.

In the AutoGuide garage we've been testing the Toyota Sequoia Capstone and the Cadillac

Lyric V. We'll close things out with a mailbag.

But first a word from our sponsors.

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Joining us now on the AutoGuide show is Ari Grunaveld.

He is the chief program engineer for the Ford Mustang Dark Horse SC.

Just unveiled this week.

I did a vid right ahead of the Detroit Auto Show.

Welcome Ari.

Thank you.

Good to be here.

So this is cool.

We're actually right at the new Ford World Headquarters.

So kind of a special treat to be inside here.

This is a reveal event for the Dark Horse SC.

So it's a little bit of ambient noise.

Ignore that.

The trade-off is you get to hear about a brand new car and you get to see it behind us if

you're watching on YouTube.

So Ari, why don't you tell us a little bit about just what is this car?

Yeah, this car, it's really, we had goals for this car.

What we wanted to deliver for the SC.

We wanted to take all our learnings from motorsports and really pour that into a more powerful,

more advanced and more track-capable expression of a Dark Horse.

We also wanted to provide our customers with a new V8 option with the sole of a Mustang.

And we also wanted to really focus on aerodynamics and vehicle dynamics.

Really pushing how far we could take it and focusing on track endurance as well.

So tell us the SC.

What is that?

This is a new name here.

Yeah.

Kind of tax onto the Dark Horse.

Kind of walk our new enthusiast listeners.

Yeah, of course.

What is this thing?

Yeah.

So SC stands for Supercharged.

Yep.

So the standard powertrain in this is a 5.2 liter supercharged engine.

Okay.

Coupled to a dual clutch transmission, funneling that power through a carbon fiber drive shaft

to the rear differential and upgraded half shafts.

Very cool.

Transmission, suspension, walk us through some of that stuff.

Yeah, the transmission, seven speed dual clutch transmission, well proven.

It's new calibration, new software, all the latest.

The suspension, so a Ford Racing suspension on this vehicle.

So really pushing on that.

So all four corners have MagneRide dampers.

The latest generation of both hardware and software.

Coupled to that some of the bits that you would expect that we would change.

We changed the springs, we changed the stay bars, we modified the knuckles and we created new front control arms.

Not surprisingly.

Outside of that, we've changed the suspension geometry, made some tweaks to the roll centers on the vehicle.

Okay.

Increased the track width compared to a base dark horse.

And outside of that, we upgraded the brakes.

So the brakes are upgraded versus a base dark horse.

We also make available carbon ceramic brakes.

Very cool.

Just like GTD.

So on the track pack version of the SC, that is standard.

We've got fantastic wheel selections.

We have a standard 20 inch aluminum.

We also have a standard carbon fiber wheel on the track pack.

So that's included with the track pack.

And our wheel widths on the standard SC are 11 inches front and rear.

Very cool.

And 11 and a half inches front and rear on the track pack.

Which is, in the case of the track pack, a full inch wider in the front.

So coupled with tires, in the track pack's case, that's a Michelin Sport Cup 2R.

Fantastic grip.

Great steering precision with that.

And on the base SC, that would be a Pirelli P0R tire.

So that's also wider than a base dark horse on the front tire.

So again, better steering, et cetera.

Very cool.

So as this goes through the Mustang sort of portfolio, the dark horse launched in 2022.

And then, of course, the GTD came out.

This kind of goes in between the middle of the sandwich.

Explain that.

So we saw that there was this white space between the very capable dark horse and the GTD.

There's a white space in there and customers are really always looking for more performance, more power.

And we found a way to do that.

And quite frankly, we pushed the team.

And the team pushes themselves, quite frankly, to deliver as much as we could within the range of a dark horse.

And they really delivered.

It's fantastic on track.

Can you give us any sort of numbers yet?

Pricing, all right, is that good stuff?

Yeah, pricing is going to come closer to launch.

And any other specifications, we'll dial those in and provide those closer to launch.

And the orders start in March and it's then deliveries are in the summer, right?

That's correct.

Yeah, super excited for customers to get in these vehicles.

Talk about expanding just the dark horse name.

This is a name that literally came out of nowhere about four years ago.

And now it really seems like it's like the hallmark almost of the Mustang lineup.

Yeah, so today has been the pinnacle of the Mustang lineup.

And what we found as we launched the base dark horse is that it was really resonating with a younger audience and a more diverse audience.

They were really taken by this dark horse branding.

And so we've leaned into that.

And that's why this is a dark horse SC.

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All right, we're back now with Ari Grunenwald to talk about the latest Mustang, the latest dark horse Mustang, the dark horse SC.

Now the sort of the trim walk is actually a pretty exciting one here.

Some cars a little duller, but this is not just like a fusion or a Taurus or something.

No, not that they're, you know, quiet, but we've got a track pack, we've got the base model.

And then there's like a limited edition one too, which you can't quite see it behind us.

That's way over there.

That's limited edition.

Tell us about just how what customer those are sort of aimed at.

Yeah, so you'll find that the base SC is more more drivable from like a through the seasons more more so than the track pack version of the SC based on the tire compound and how it's set up.

You'll find that those that opt for the track pack are really the adrenaline junkies that are really trying to get the best lap times, the best acceleration and all the performance goodies in it.

The special edition and we're not releasing the quantity of how special that will be, but it will only be offered in the 26 model year.

Okay.

Has some really cool unique content, unique graphics, carbon fiber on the front fascia, the rear fascia on the on the mirrors, a unique paint job only offered in two colors.

And in the inside bold red seats.

There's lots of carbon fiber on that car on the interior and we borrow some of those parts from GTD.

Very cool.

So that's that's mainly for the collector, I would assume, but some people will probably drive that hard as well.

Yeah, I would imagine any customization programs or anything like that you could talk about like say you really want you know the dark horse SC to be totally yours almost like what you guys did with the GTD.

Yeah.

Nothing to announce right now.

Maybe something as we get closer to launch relative to that.

There will be painted graphic offerings on both versions, both the standard wealth.

The special edition already has it but the track pack and both the base SC will have optional painted graphic options.

Okay, so this could have been theoretically a Shelby but you guys decided to keep going with the dark horse name kind of walk us through that.

Yeah, so the dark horse name really resonated with the target customer.

And as we consolidated into Ford Racing, now we're a fleet of race inspired vehicles, whether it's the dedicated race cars or the vehicles that are production versions of racing cars.

Sure.

So it made sense for us to really stay within that family of Ford Racing and that's where it's placed.

Now, of course, Shelby is not really into racing at the moment, so that also made sense for us as well.

When you were doing your intro of the car, very cool.

You mentioned you've been with Ford for over 30 years.

Over 30 years, that's right.

This has got to be kind of like a dream project for you.

It is.

I think about myself as a young kid thinking about revealing this product today and it's fantastic.

I've got three boys at home and they're like, you're revealing it, they haven't seen it.

Oh, that's cool.

And they're all super excited as well.

What haven't I asked you, do you want to tell us about this car?

Well, we also have, there's a few features that I didn't mention.

One being that I think is really good for someone to really experience the capability and grow with the capability of the car and that is variable traction control.

So similar to GTD, GTD has variable traction control.

So you have the ability, depending on your experience or what the track conditions are, to tune how much you want to take out of traction control.

So the amount of support that you need.

So that's really a cool feature and I think that really will help the customer, the driver, push the car and see what their limits are.

Very cool.

So he's Ari Grunewald.

He's the chief program engineer for the Ford Mustang Dark Horse SC.

If you're in the Detroit area or the Midwest and you want to check out this thing, it will be available for you to check out on public days.

That's in January.

If not, stay tuned with AutoGuide.

We have full coverage of this car.

We'll be right back after this.

Thank you.

This message comes from eBay.

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All right.

Mike joins us now to talk about the latest gear he's been testing.

This is quite the piece of equipment.

It's a home charger for electric cars.

Mike, welcome.

Tell us about this charger.

So this is the Cineal Spark AC40A NEMA Charger, which is a long name.

So Cineal's been around doing a lot of various industry stuff for a long time.

And now they're getting into the electric home charger.

It isn't just electric home chargers.

They also do commercial charging.

So they're well versed in this space.

This is the plug-in.

So it's their smallest 40 amp.

They also make a, I believe it's a 50 amp hardware and an 80 amp hardware.

And I might try the 80 down the road.

But this one I had for many weeks to test out.

And overall, I quite like it.

The first thing that really impressed me is it's small.

It's just a small sort of square box.

I'd say half the size of most home chargers.

So it can be placed inside a garage or outside on a wall in many places.

Maybe other ones couldn't.

It's got all the certifications.

I can't remember the fancy numbers, but basically it's dust tight water resistant.

So it can be outside.

It meets all the safety codes US and Canada.

The actual cord to plug it in and the cord to plug the current are very thick gauge.

Basically it's over the industry standard.

It's over engineered for longevity.

When plugging it in, you need to make sure the box is set up correctly with the plug though,

because the plug has very limited flexibility.

So that's really the only thing you need to be cautious of.

But once it's plugged in, it's great.

The app is so straightforward, user friendly.

It's one of those apps where there's a public charging site in the home charging site.

You just register your charger.

You plug it in.

You can set the schedule of when you want to charge,

but you can also set how much it costs to charge on different hours,

depending on your specific electric, I guess companies schedule or structure.

So I put in my, there's peak hour, middle hour and off peak.

And then when I plug in, it knows what time those rates are,

and it can give me a good estimate of how much it probably costs to charge.

So off peak, I'm charging for pennies on the dollar compared to if I went in them.

Charger to public charger.

So it's critical to have one of these things if you have an EV or even a plug in at home.

And the actual cord to plug the car is a couple of feet longer than a lot of ones I've tested before.

So that's a big plus.

I don't have to get the cars right up against the garage door to charge in the driveway if I want.

So yeah, overall, it's, I really have nothing negative to say about this, this unit and price wise,

it's pretty competitive with the higher end units out there.

And it's assembled in North America.

So it's built right here, which is also really nice.

Did you have to do any upgrades to your home, like to your, your panel or your electric wiring, anything like that?

Yeah, I did because I have an old house.

So I had an old 100 amp panel.

So depending on what you have in your house, you might have to upgrade out to 200 or 200 plus because I have a electric dryer and electric stove.

So those two combined with a charger on my old panel would overload it.

So you can't do that.

So you need to be cautious of that.

No sort of your panel and what you're getting into beforehand.

A lot of newer homes are coming with panels that are upgraded because, you know, people are filling their houses with electronic gadgets and whatnot.

It's just the older ones you might need to upgrade.

But again, if you're going to buy an EV at most, you're looking at a couple thousand dollars probably to upgrade.

And then these boxes are like $500.

So you're going to get that money back pretty quick over the lifespan of an EV.

And if you're going to plan on multiple, then it's just a drop in the bucket.

It really is a game changer.

I've tested some home chargers and I've had, you know, different experiences.

But it really just as far as like sort of living the EV life, it just makes your life so much easier because, you know, I was driving this Volvo that needed to be charged.

And I think it was November, December.

I'm sitting in this public charging watt waiting for like, you know, this Audi to go top off its batteries.

And it's just it can be a miserable experience using public charging.

You know, the infrastructure isn't quite there yet.

It doesn't sound like it's probably going to really get there anytime soon.

So when you can control your own destiny, have a home box like this.

Oh, it makes it so much better.

And it really makes you enjoy your car better and have a better like just view of it.

So it's very cool.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a product I definitely recommend and I am still using it as of now.

So yeah, check it out if you're looking at upgrading or getting your first home charger.

All right.

Sounds good.

Well, thanks, Mike.

Speaking of EVs, stick around.

Mike has been driving the Cadillac Lyric V.

So sounds pretty interesting.

I can't wait to hear more about that.

And I have been in the Toyota Sequoia.

We'll be right back after this.

All right.

So for our driving segment, Mike has been driving the Cadillac Lyric V.

Like we said, and again, I've been in the Sequoia.

So why don't you start things off since you've been talking about your life with electric vehicles.

I really enjoy the Lyric.

I have not driven the V, though.

I think it looks great.

Is the V sort of worth that extra, you know, power and cost and all of that?

So the Lyric V may sound unusual to some people that Cadillacs doing the V to so many of their electric vehicles.

I mean, this is the company that has supercharged V8s and everything.

It makes Vs and black wings.

But it makes sense because Cadillacs going to Formula One and the new regulation cars are being powered by a drive train.

That's 50% gas and 50% electric.

So Cadillac kind of needs to know what it's doing on both sides on the performance game.

The all wheel drive dual motor Lyric is one of my favorite EVs period.

Doesn't matter if it's mainstream or luxury, like you, like I quite enjoy it.

So the V takes that and kind of builds on it.

So it gives it an extra hundred horsepower.

So 515 to 615 and extra 200 pound feet of torque.

So 450 goes to 650 and it's about the same weight and everything.

Cadillacs says it'll lose zero to 60 miles per hour in 3.3 seconds.

And I don't doubt that if you put it in the V mode and do a launch control, the initial launch is violent.

It is crazy.

There's not even a hint of wheel spin with I have winter tires on, not even grippy high performance tires that it comes with.

And even then on just regular roads, it would just get up and go.

And when you hit 60 in that time easy, once you start to exceed 60 and get into freeway speeds, the ample thrust isn't as much.

I mean, it still can pass anything with authority, but it's not like pinning you in your seat anymore.

And that's the case.

A lot of electric vehicles, this one just seems to kind of taper off a bit more.

But all that low end grunt is always there.

If you drive it in one of the regular modes, you don't get the full power, which is sort of a hallmark of GM EVs.

You need to put it in V to get all that power.

But that's also, I guess, to help protect range, which is an important point to bring up with this vehicle because it's 319 rated normally for the dual motor.

And this one, it drops to 285.

So again, not terrible.

There's a lot of performance SUV EVs that are around that.

I though took it from the Toronto area down to Detroit for the Detroit Auto Show.

So that's not even, that's about 200 miles or just over of all highway freeway driving.

And this wouldn't make it.

I had to stop both times to get just a bit of a top up.

So when I, going down was a little tough, because I didn't leave it 100%.

But coming back, I got a good test of it.

I left it 100.

And I probably would have rolled into my driveway at zero.

But I did stop for a quick bite.

So I threw it on a fast charger.

I got 14% extra during that time.

And I came home at 14%.

So, yeah, the 288 is looking more like two to 10 when you're driving on winter tires in sub zero temperatures at freeway speeds.

So that's like the trifecta of things electric vehicles hate.

So that isn't what you're going to get everywhere.

If I was in town, I'd probably be closer to 232.40 at least.

If I wasn't on the winter tires, I'm probably, you know, at 250 now.

And if it's not below zero and probably at 285.

So I think the range is accurate.

You just need to be aware of what you're asking it to do.

As I said, the power is amazing.

The car still, well, SUV, I guess, still drives just like a Lyric.

They haven't lost anything.

So it's still got great road manners, still comfortable, full of tech, just a nice place to be in.

I don't know side of the power, how much sportier it is.

I know it has Brembo brakes and the high performance tires, but I was missing those tires.

When I did get to hustle a little bit before the weather really turned south, we got a foot of snow a couple days ago.

It felt a lot like the Lyric does, which isn't a terrible thing because it responds pretty well for what it is.

But I don't think this is a transformation that, say, a CT5 goes from regular to black wing.

It is more like the V where it's better, but it's not like full out track weapon.

But if you don't need to do regular long distance highway jaunts and you want that more power and the cooler looks and all the toys,

yeah, it's just makes the Lyric better.

I think to your point now that Cadillac, well, has a Formula One team having sort of synergies with electric cars,

with hybrids, things like that make a ton of sense.

I've been a big fan of the Lyric since it launched.

I just think they really nailed the design.

I think the interior sort of kind of points a path forward for General Motors and Cadillac for what they should be doing.

Driving some of those really, I think, really good CT and ATS cars and the CT4 and the CT5,

sometimes I feel like the interiors didn't quite match what they were trying to do with powertrains and the exterior design.

But I think with the Lyric, they're getting there.

It's not perfect.

It's maybe it's even a little polarizing, but I think it's very, very good.

And I think adding the V Halo for Lyric for electric cars, I think that's a really good move too.

Yeah, I would love.

I know that there's OPTIQ V is planned or rumored or whatever.

And I think it's this full drive train, not even smaller SUV.

That'll be crazy.

But you're right, like the CT4 and 5Vs and black wings look amazing.

And the Lyric just has a cool look.

Like it's even when I see them now and they pass me, like, what is that?

I'm like, oh, it's almost got like a wagony look.

But inside it's still an SUV.

Like they've done a good job of combining it to sort of like, they'll hate this reference.

But so like Subaru always did with the up back up until this generation where on the outside it looks more car-y, wagony and sporty.

But inside it feels like you're in a full SUV.

And I actually passed a couple lyrics and optics on the way.

And yeah, like the OPTIQ is much more of an SUV.

So this is sort of like, I know there's the Celestic, but that's so out there.

So this is sort of like, I'd say their Halo EV, even the Escalade IQ, that's just more like an electric Escalade than a Halo EV.

So yeah, being this up makes a ton of sense.

And I think it'll do well for them.

And I can totally see, you know, their F1 car parked in the paddocks with the CT5 black wing and the Lyric V parked on either side of it

to show the spread of where they're at.

And this is a cliche and kind of a tired saying, but like imagine Cadillac 25 years ago saying this is where they'd be.

It gets crazy, the transformation.

I mean, 20 years ago, okay, the first CTS-V existed.

But yeah, the companies wanted to reinvent itself and they totally have.

I was just going to say, I really feel like Cadillac has put itself on a much better path.

I think a lot of that is due to the fact that like Mark Royce, who's like, you know, very high up has always been a big defender and advocate for Cadillac.

He oversaw a product for a while.

Mary Barr, I think the CEO is really bought in on what Cadillac can do.

I feel like some of the previous CEOs and obviously GM went through bankruptcy and like other challenges.

I don't think they fully grasped how they could make Cadillac what it should be.

You know, like you don't say it's the Lexus of something.

People still say, well, yeah, that's the Cadillac of vacuum cleaners.

So tremendous heritage, tremendous, just brand value.

And I think the products started to live up to it.

I mean, we're going to get more into the Ford versus GM a little bit later on this podcast.

But again, going back, like when Cadillac started this transformation, I mean, they had the Katerra or the Cadillac, the Ziggs or whatever they were, Zags or whatever they said.

And at the time, Lincoln had some pretty impressive cars, like luxury cars and and rear drive.

And it would almost be argued they're a little more.

Not sporty, but contemporary and not like Lincoln's bad now.

They've just gone a different direction.

But look how much they've changed.

They're in the same spot there and Cadillac's going against like the BMW and M's and Lincoln's becoming very luxurious SUV manufacturers.

So yeah, it's quite the path they've taken over the last quarter century.

All right.

If you want to take the path, perhaps off road, maybe a Toyota Sequoia is what you might be interested in doing.

And acquiring.

That's what I've been test driving all week.

It's been a good large vehicle, three row SUV, as far as just being around town.

We've had a ton of snow this week.

So this one's four wheel drive.

It's the capstone trim, which is top of the line.

There's a ton of stuff on it.

Mine came in at just under $88,000, which seems like kind of an eye watering bigger for a Toyota SUV.

But stuff costs a lot these days.

Everything does.

This thing's pretty loaded.

The interior is comfortable.

The materials are all pretty good.

I don't think I'd go with the capstone trim if it were my money.

I guess actually to back up, I don't think I'd go with the Sequoia if it were my money.

I think there's other things both in Toyota and in the segment that I would probably consider first.

I think the Tahoe is a better value.

I think I would look at maybe Land Cruiser or 4Runner if I was probably thinking for a Toyota SUV.

This thing does have size on its side.

So I think in that sense, if you are cross shopping this with a Tahoe with a Yukon, other enormous things in the segment,

and you want like a Toyota, well of course Toyota will give you that reliability, that quality.

I think their design is pretty good.

I think Toyota has done large SUVs well.

It also offer a themed trucks and SUVs for that matter for a very long time.

I think Tahoe's and things like that are very ubiquitous, especially around here.

I'm in Michigan, but they're also pretty ubiquitous just everywhere.

GM sells a ton of those things, whereas the Sequoia does give you a little bit of identity.

It's something different.

The room behind the third row, not great.

I am my son's volunteer basketball coach this year.

So trying to get the basketballs just in and close the hatch.

It's a little tight.

Once you put that third row of seats down, it opens up a bit.

But for something that does compete with just such like battleships in this segment,

I actually found the interior to be a little tight.

Also for almost 88 grand, I feel like you should get some more stuff inside.

I feel like at that point, you're looking at really nice seat massagers.

Again, in this segment, maybe from a mainstream brand, you're not looking for super flashy design cues.

But the inside feels like, I'd say $65,000.

It doesn't feel like $88,000 to me.

Toyota's infotainment system, I think either I'm getting used to it or maybe it's getting a little bit better.

But I feel like it's a lot easier to use than it has been.

Super easy to set the nav, so that's a good thing.

The controls, there's plenty of knobs and buttons, which I think on a vehicle this big, you got to have that.

Because if you look down too long, you're in the other lane.

So I think they have that layout pretty good.

And also, I always noticed the center console on large trucks and SUVs.

And the center console, you could put any number of things in there.

And to me, that's highly useful.

So kind of a mixed bag for me.

I liked it.

I actually sought out the Sequoia.

I have not driven one in probably five years.

I just sort of like the flukiness of the press fleet scheduling.

It hasn't been new for quite some time.

I don't think Toyota was really pushing it forward to journalists.

But I was genuinely curious.

I was like, because we get a lot of large SUVs to test.

And where is this?

We've got one of the best selling brands in the world.

I felt it was almost like my duty to test their sort of large flagship 3-row SUVs.

So I put it somewhere in the top five, six of the segment.

But I mean, I was going to say, that's kind of a backheaded compliment.

But solid vehicle, I liked it.

But I think there's other things in this space that you might want to go for.

So kind of my mini review of that.

Have you driven a Sequoia recently, Mike?

Yeah, I was going to say, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

We did a comparison of that segment, probably going back three years now, maybe two,

when the Sequoia first came out this generation.

And like the Tacoma and the Tundra, the Sequoia's advantages,

it gives you such good fuel economy compared to its competitors with the hybrid system,

while giving you similar power.

But as you said, it's sort of the forgotten vehicle in that segment.

Well, maybe next to the Armada, which gets forgotten more.

But you're right, it's tight inside.

The third row was the worst of the comparison.

The second row wasn't much better.

We didn't overly like the interior the way it drove.

The capstone, like you said, is not the right trim.

You get a mid-trim and that makes the Sequoia make more sense.

The capstone's there because kind of it needs to be.

Because if you're going to play in that segment, you've got to fight the Denali's

and the High Countries and the Platons and whatnot.

So you need to have something in that bracket.

But yeah, Toyota, it's still a good product.

It is a Toyota and they have so many great products.

It's hard to take it to the big players of that segment.

That's sort of the bread and butter for Ford and GM.

And just like their pickups.

And there's a reason why they sell so many of them,

because that's where they're really focusing the resources.

And it's hard to almost out-American the Americans.

So yeah, it's still a good vehicle.

It makes sense.

But you're going against some long-established heavyweights, literally.

Yeah.

And I mean, even when the Grand Wagoneer sort of jumped into the segment,

it felt like to me, expensive as that thing is,

it felt like to me that also kind of got ahead of the Sequoia too.

I think that one has more of an identity.

I think it's a little bit of a better value now that Jeep has sort of gotten

a little saner with the prices.

So yeah, it's good.

But obviously, maybe not the best.

Yeah.

We had the Wagoneer winner comparison, but it's now dead.

But as we all know, it's going to be reborn in some form as a Dodge.

And that's going to just be more competition to Sequoia's going to have to face.

All right.

So that is our test drive segment.

That's what's been in the AutoGuide Garage.

Let's move on to the mailbag.

We'll close things out with that.

We received a question this week because there's been a lot of chatter

about the American F1 teams.

I went to an event last night in downtown Detroit

where I saw Red Bull reveal its livery for 2026.

It was kind of surreal, to be honest, to actually see a Formula One reveal event in Detroit.

It was cool.

I mean, it was interesting.

It was fun.

But the question is, is Ford versus GM an actual F1 rivalry?

What do you think of all the recent sniping?

I mean, I think it's great.

Yeah.

Let's bring it on.

Let's, you know, Yankee's Red Sox.

Let's make it a rivalry.

I don't know if it's one yet, but I think it definitely has the form, you know, the,

like the foundation is there because obviously GM and Ford don't really like each other.

So, I mean, the basics are there.

We'll see how it plays out on the track.

What do you think, Mike?

Yeah.

I think too, like GM and Ford don't like each other.

I think that's more of a, they know their fans don't like each other, so they play into it.

I mean, they share transmissions.

They have a bunch of partnerships and they know each other critical for the, you know,

longevity and success of the industry.

But yeah, like Camaro Mustang, Silverado, 450, like that's been going on forever.

And I quite enjoy this and I hope it continues because F1 is at such a peak in popularity

in North America and this is only going to make it more so.

And I mean, both sides are pulling the jabs as to what they can go with.

And I agree.

Like we were at, or we were, I was at Ford press conference for the RTR Bronco.

Nothing to do with this.

And even there, they made a little stab of how they were probably hopefully going to win Dakar

because it's the only one they haven't won in the world.

They've won and they said, we've won Le Mans.

We've won Formula One.

We've won this.

We've won that.

And I was like, yeah, they had to turn Formula One in there.

And then rightfully so with GM.

I mean, technically Ford hasn't won Formula One.

Ford has powered many vehicles that have won the championship in F1 and they've owned teams that have won championships.

Like, well, they didn't win championships, but, you know, they own like Jaguar and whatnot.

So if Cadillac can eventually successfully institute their engine and car and win a championship,

I mean, their engine won't even be there for three years.

So we're still a ways off.

Then yeah, they have full bragging rights.

Like we are the American OEM that did it.

But as of now, Ford has the breaking rights.

We've been here many times and we've had much success.

And I mean, next year they are going to have like, they will have the breaking rights because

they are powering Red Bull, who we know is a good car, assuming their engines decent.

Now on that vein, I mean, the Honda power plant that they're replacing,

even though it wasn't a Honda at the end, it was still a great unit and it helped that car a lot.

So a lot is riding on Ford because if Red Bull comes out of the gate and they're terrible,

everyone's going to blame Ford.

Even if it's the car that's terrible, they're going to blame Ford.

So they do have lots of losers Cadillac can come out of the gate and suck and people are like,

well, they're a new team, give them a couple of years, but it'll be fine.

It'll be fine to watch.

I mean, Cadillac's real rival, if you want to be honest, is Audi for the next couple of years,

because it's two fresh teams, although Audi is going to have their engine right from the start,

which will give Cadillacs really advantage because they're going to have a Ferrari engine.

So you assume their power plant is going to be sorted from day one,

whereas Audi might have some growing pains.

So all I know is this is going to be a fun, fun Formula One year.

There are so many manufacturers and storylines.

I can't wait.

It reminds me sort of before the great recession when you had more BMW, Toyota,

more manufacturers backing the teams, which I thought was good for the sport

because that brings the casual fan in.

And right now I think we're at that sort of peak casual fan for Formula One.

It's done by all the things, like Drive to Survive, some of the TV deals in the US.

It's all like right now.

It's cool to talk about Formula One and to be in Formula One.

So I think having domestic brands that are obviously on the road in North America helps tremendously.

So I think this is good for the sport.

I mean, obviously, if the rivalry is at the back of the field, that's not useful.

But I think given the amount of money and resources both companies have and both teams have,

I mean, I think Cadillac is going to, I don't know if Cadillac is going to catch up to Red Bull anytime soon.

That's like kind of fighting words.

But I think Cadillac, you know, can put a pretty credible effort out there somewhat soon.

I think that'll be good for growing the sport and, you know, who knows, maybe it will be a rivalry.

And I think Cadillac has the higher ceiling because it is the Cadillac team.

You know, we saw the livery at the Detroit Auto Show this week and I thought it looked good.

It was like the one off testing livery, but still that was a Cadillac badge on it.

Whereas Red Bull is a Red Bull car with the blue oval kind of in the fuselage.

So, you know, I guess.

Yeah, Red Bull looks cool with the old school sort of blue Red Bull livery.

But I think that's because they know Cadillac is going to do like a black and silver like they do with most of the cars.

But yeah, I think both manufacturers are doing it right.

Ford is an international brand already well established in tons of markets.

And it's got that history.

So how you said it reminds me old days.

Like I wasn't alive then, but it reminds me like the 70s when you had Ford, Tyrell and Ferrari and McLaren, like all these brands all over the place.

And for GM Cadillac is the right one to do.

Because as we said earlier with the lyric, they're trying to make it an international marquee brand.

And this is just another step.

And what do I expect to show?

Yeah, I honestly expect Ford and Red Bull to be near the top.

I don't know if they're it'll depend on the engine and the car.

But I think we need to watch out for Aston Martin and Honda.

That's sort of the sneaker because they have great designer and Honda's proved they can make good engines.

McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes, they're all going to be there.

So yeah, Cadillac realistically will probably hope to be a mid pack fighter.

And if they can do that in their first year, fantastic.

But realistically, they'll be near the back probably for a year or two.

And then they got their own engine and that might be another year.

But as long as they commit for minimum five years to see this through, then I think they will be up there.

Sounds good.

And that will see us through this week's episode of the AutoGuide show.

Thanks for hanging out, everyone.

Thanks for listening.

If you have questions, comments, you want to get into the mailbag, please get into the comment section of this post.

We would love to hear from you.

We'd love to engage with you.

Be safe out there.

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