Porsche’s rumored second Dakar (992.2) is the headline: a hybrid turbo setup aimed at proving the tech in harsh desert conditions, with discussion on how the system will be sealed and protected for water/sand use. Pricing and the first-gen 2,500-unit scarcity lead to a debate on whether Porsche will limit this run and how “limited” status drives demand. The bigger enthusiast argument turns to Porsche’s reluctance to offer true manuals—then pivots to a potential future “electronic manual” concept that mimics clutch/gear feel via fly-by-wire actuation, raising questions about reliability, lineup placement, and whether it replaces real manuals.
The Dakar Gets an Upgrade — And Maybe a Second Chance
The next-generation Porsche Dakar is coming, and this time it's arriving with the full 992.2 treatment plus hybrid technology baked in. Expected ordering windows open late this year with a starting price somewhere around $250k before you even look at the options list. The big question the guys tackle here isn't whether the new Dakar is desirable — it obviously is — it's whether Porsche finally lets people actually buy one. The first-gen Dakar's limited production run was classic Porsche scarcity playbook, and it worked, but it also meant a lot of genuine enthusiasts who wanted one to drive got shut out. No "limited" label has surfaced yet for this new version, and the guys are cautiously optimistic that if you want one, you might actually be able to order one. That's how it should be.
Transmission by Wire: The Future of the Manual or the End of It?
Porsche is reportedly developing a transmission-by-wire system, and the concept is worth unpacking. Picture a traditional H-pattern shifter with the weight and feel of a real mechanical gearbox — but underneath, it's all sensors and software. Shift when you want to, feel like you're rowing gears, and when you don't want to deal with it, let the computer take over. The guys dig into whether this is genuinely cool engineering or just another layer of abstraction between the driver and the car. There's a real argument that this keeps the manual alive in an era where packaging and electrification are slowly killing it — but there's also the uncomfortable truth that a simulated shift feel is still simulated. Is this the future of the enthusiast car, or just a very expensive compromise?
Outro
For upcoming events and everything P-car Talk, head to pcartalk.com. Support the show at Patreon.com/pcartalk and follow us at @pcartalk.
The Kimchi Crew: Steve, Leslie, Chris, Ken, Aaron, Sean, and Nik.
"So that'll be interesting. I mean, not that there was significant turbo lag prior, but obviously it's new technology."
Turbo lag is the delay between when you press the accelerator and when the turbocharger builds enough boost to deliver power. Modern engine control strategies and smaller turbo designs have reduced it, but it can still be noticeable depending on driving conditions. The hosts mention it because hybrid assistance can help mask lag by providing torque instantly.
"Like you do it like a jeep snorkel. It's just too big to make turbo."
A snorkel is an intake extension that raises the air intake above typical splash/water levels, commonly seen on off-road 4x4s. The hosts use “jeep snorkel” as an analogy for how Porsche might protect the intake system if water crossings are part of the Dakar use case. It’s a practical concept: higher intake placement reduces the risk of ingesting water.
Concept
$250,000 before options
"It's $250,000 before options. Okay, I feel like that's wild though."
“Before options” means that $250,000 is the starting price, not including extra upgrades you can add. Those extras can push the final price higher. It’s a reminder to compare the real total cost, not just the headline number.
“Before options” means the base price excludes add-ons like special packages, wheels, interior upgrades, or dealer-installed accessories. For limited or niche models, options can significantly increase the final transaction price. List price vs. out-the-door cost is a key concept when evaluating whether a car is “expensive” in real terms.
"[141.1s] of your Rolodex and it's a limited car. So I would say further for their bookkeeping
[146.2s] purposes. Yes, they did probably move them all."
A “limited car” just means only a small number were made. That usually makes it harder to find and can make it more expensive later.
A “limited car” is produced in small numbers, often to create scarcity and higher demand. In practice, it can affect pricing, resale value, and how often you see the car in the wild.
"[200.2s] essentially it's a turbo s that's lifted on knobby tires. And I don't know,"
“Lifted” means the car sits higher off the ground. That helps it clear bumps, driveways, and rough surfaces without scraping.
A “lifted” car has increased ride height/ground clearance, usually via suspension changes. On a sports car platform, that typically improves approach/departure angles and reduces scraping on driveways and rough roads.
"[208.7s] like I can't think of a better daily driver Porsche for urban settings or
[214.8s] country settings."
A “daily driver” is a vehicle intended for regular everyday use—commuting, errands, and varied road conditions. The speaker is arguing that this special 911 setup is practical enough for urban and country driving.
"[218.3s] and you want to drive a sports car. This I can't think of a better sports car
[223.4s] with a warranty other than, you know, Lamborghini, Sturratos, one of them,"
Lamborghini is a famous Italian supercar brand. They’re using it as a comparison point for “fun but still usable” cars.
Lamborghini is an Italian supercar brand known for high-performance, high-excitement vehicles. The speaker compares the practicality of the Porsche to Lamborghini’s lineup, implying that only a few Lamborghini models are similarly usable.
"[232.4s] making any more Sturratos because they've already moved on from that
[235.9s] platform because they've already gone on to whatever the next the revalto or
[239.6s] whatever the next thing is."
A “platform” is the main engineering base a car is built on. When a company moves to a new platform, the next cars may feel different and may not be able to make the same kind of special model again.
“Platform” refers to the underlying engineering architecture a manufacturer uses across multiple models. When the speaker says Lamborghini moved on from that platform, they’re implying the next generation may not share the same design/characteristics that made the earlier limited car special.
"Yeah, it takes a car that isn't really daily drivable in the sense of not that the engine's not capable of it, but this but the settings you'll put the car in in the day to day work that you like to hide the car in."
“Daily drivable” just means you could use the car every day—like commuting or running errands—without it being miserable or impractical. They’re saying the car can do it, but the way it’s set up makes it less suited for normal roads.
“Daily drivable” means a car can be used regularly for errands and commuting without being overly harsh, inconvenient, or fragile. In this context, they’re saying the car’s engine may be capable, but the setup and settings make it less comfortable for everyday use.
"Basically all the speed and all that that you want. But you're protected. You know, you got the knobby tires on it, too. So you're not bottoming out in some LA Pothole or any place that you live that have crappy roads like and you don't want to drive a truck."
Knobby tires have chunky tread meant to bite into dirt and gravel. They usually work great off-road, but they can be louder and feel less smooth on regular roads.
Knobby tires are aggressive off-road tread blocks designed for traction on loose surfaces like dirt, gravel, and mud. They help grip in rough conditions, but they can be noisier and less efficient on pavement.
"Gen 1 obviously has different suspension. Yep. Okay. Different tires, we get that. It has a roof rack. You can pick a livery package."
A roof rack is the bars on top of the car used to carry extra gear. It’s common on adventure-focused editions because it makes the car feel ready for trips.
A roof rack is an external mounting system for carrying gear (like luggage, recovery equipment, or bikes). On edition/off-road-styled cars, roof racks are often part of the “lifestyle” package and can reinforce the intended use-case.
"It has suspension travel like we talked about it. That goes into the suspension thing."
Suspension travel is how much the suspension can move up and down. More travel usually helps when you’re driving over rough terrain because the tires stay planted.
Suspension travel is the distance the suspension can move through its full range of motion (compression to rebound). More travel is often used for off-road use to keep tires in contact over bumps and reduce bottoming out.
"there's bodywork different on the Dakar because they put the cladding and they put skid plates and all that stuff."
Cladding refers to exterior protective coverings—often plastic or composite—that shield bodywork from abrasion and impacts. On off-road themed cars, cladding is both functional (protection) and visual (signaling the build’s purpose).
"Like make it have something different from its power plant, whether that be gearing, whether it's something."
“Power plant” is a general term for the car’s main propulsion system—most commonly the engine and its associated drivetrain components. The speaker uses it to argue that differentiation should come from changes that affect how the car makes and delivers power, not just exterior hardware.
"but I don't... That doesn't... For Porsche, that seems like really low hanging fruit. They're better than that, I guess, is my point."
“Low hanging fruit” means an easy, obvious move. The speaker is saying Porsche’s off-road look changes might be too simple compared to what should be done to make it truly special.
“Low hanging fruit” is an idiom meaning an easy or obvious strategy. Here, it’s used to criticize Porsche’s approach: making an off-road-themed variant by adding protection and suspension changes without deeper engineering differentiation.
"So the Carrera T is the only one with a manual transmission. So see what I'm saying is that car is different enough, even though..."
A manual transmission is the kind of car where you use a clutch pedal and a gear lever to choose gears. The speaker is saying Porsche is making manuals rarer, and that affects which cars feel truly different to buyers.
A manual transmission is the gearbox where the driver selects gears using a clutch and shifter. The speaker is arguing that Porsche’s lineup choices (like limiting manuals to certain trims) create meaningful differences in how the cars are positioned and experienced.
"hey, it has rear steer, you know, option to come standard with like LSD, the base 991.2 doesn't,"
LSD means the differential helps both drive wheels work together. If one wheel starts slipping, it sends more power to the wheel that has grip.
LSD stands for limited-slip differential, which reduces wheelspin when one drive wheel loses traction. By biasing torque to the wheel with grip, it improves acceleration and traction—especially in corners or on slippery surfaces.
"And it just doesn't and also just a money grab. Yeah. Where they could have just kept it with the 9-11 because if you think about it,"
They’re saying the new special trims might be more about making money than improving the cars for enthusiasts. The speaker thinks Porsche could have done better by sticking to what already worked.
“Money grab” is the speaker’s critique that certain limited trims or lineup expansions are driven more by profit than by genuine enthusiast value. In this context, they’re arguing Porsche could have focused on the existing 911 lineup instead of creating additional “T” variants.
"They can make a limited run of the manuals, hit up Lee Keen, do a collab, do a Keen safari, do 10 of them."
A “limited run” means only a small number of cars are made with that exact setup. It’s often used to make the car feel more special and to support higher pricing.
A “limited run” is a small production quantity of a specific configuration, often used to create exclusivity and justify higher pricing. The speaker argues Porsche could do this for manuals to appeal to a niche enthusiast audience.
Concept
$50,000 upgrade option
"make the option to say, All right, it's a $50,000 upgrade option."
They’re suggesting Porsche could charge a big extra amount for the special manual/enthusiast configuration. It’s basically an expensive “option package” for people who really want it.
The speaker proposes pricing a manual/enthusiast option as a large add-on—specifically a $50,000 upgrade option. This highlights how automakers monetize niche demand through high-margin customization.
"You have an enthusiast brand. Why not? Why not take and you'd like to upsell?"
Upsell is when a company encourages you to spend more for a better or more special version. In this case, it’s about paying extra for a manual or special build.
“Upsell” means encouraging customers to pay more for a higher-value version—here, an enthusiast-oriented manual configuration. The speaker argues Porsche already does a lot of à la carte options, so upselling a manual should be on the table.
"the Gearing in the past. They're already doing so much ala cart stuff anyways, like why wouldn't they offer that for all of their specialty products?"
“À la carte” means you pick options individually instead of getting one pre-made bundle. The speaker says Porsche already does this, so adding a manual option makes sense.
“À la carte” refers to selecting individual options rather than buying a fixed package. The speaker argues Porsche already sells cars this way, so offering a manual as another selectable option would fit their current strategy.
"Not slapping a stupid livery on it. It's making it special and lifting it."
A livery is the car’s graphics—like stripes and decals. The speaker is saying that just adding looks isn’t the same as making the car truly special.
A livery is the visual paint/graphics scheme used on a car—often stripes, decals, and sponsor-style branding. The speaker criticizes using only cosmetic changes (like livery) instead of meaningful mechanical/engineering differences.
"Like make your make your little tune have like anti lag tune and like, yeah,"
An anti-lag tune is a software setting that helps a turbo respond faster when you get back on the throttle. It’s meant to reduce lag, but it can be harder on the engine/turbo if pushed hard.
An anti-lag tune is an engine calibration strategy used to reduce turbo lag by keeping the turbo spinning (or maintaining conditions that allow rapid boost on throttle reapplication). It’s common in performance and rally-style setups, but it can increase stress on components.
Term
Rothman's Lever
"And also spend the money, put some lawyers together and get the Rothman's Lever to actually have a Rothman's Lever. Yeah, right. No kidding."
“Rothman's Lever” appears to be a reference to a branded gear lever/shift knob associated with Rothmans (a famous tobacco brand historically tied to motorsport sponsorship). The speaker is using it as a humorous, enthusiast-style nod to collectible or themed manual hardware.
"My first reaction and like thought was 991.1 electric steering. Wasn't that
great when it first came out. But now they've kind of you know, they've had years to dial it in."
Electric steering replaces hydraulic assist with an electric motor, allowing more software control over steering feel and assist levels. The speaker uses it as an analogy for how a new electronically controlled “manual feel” could improve over time.
"for example, if it's a PDK only car, meaning like a three RS, like this could be in that
and you would have the idea that you're shifting because essentially the PDK is still going to
be shifting for you."
PDK is Porsche’s automatic transmission that uses two clutches to shift quickly. Even though it’s automatic, you can often control it with paddles if you want.
PDK is Porsche’s dual-clutch transmission system. It can shift very quickly and can operate fully automatically, but it can also be controlled by paddles or driver inputs.
"But when you move like it'll just click the paddle like in an automated sense
somewhere else instead of you doing it. Do you think they leave paddles in these cars?"
Paddle shifters are controls on the steering wheel used to request upshifts or downshifts. The speaker is discussing whether paddles would remain usable in an electronically simulated “manual” setup, especially in auto mode.
"Like you almost want to think that you're not going to waste all this time and money just to make it and only still only be able to put it in certain cars, right?"
They’re talking about how new tech might only be offered on some models at first. That can make people upset if they want the upgrade but their car isn’t eligible.
The discussion highlights a common strategy: a new transmission tech may be available only on certain models/variants at first. That affects perceived value and can create frustration among owners who want the same feel but can’t get it on their specific car.
"Like it changed it in a really cool way where there's no more... Well I wish it had... They're done wishing. Yeah. You're like it feels like a manual. It operates like a manual."
They’re saying the new transmission can make the car feel like you’re driving a manual. That usually means the shifts happen in a way that feels more connected and less “computer-y.”
“Feels like a manual” describes the subjective shift feel of an automated transmission—often meaning quick, decisive engagement and a driving experience that mimics clutch-and-gear behavior. The speaker argues the technology is advanced enough that it can replicate that manual-like sensation.
"...Porsche's got to make a universal gear where it's kind of like doesn't feel too short..."
Porsche is the car brand being mentioned. They’re being used as an example of how a company might tune the shifter feel so it suits more than one type of driver.
Porsche is referenced here in relation to how it designs shift feel and gearing/ratios for different drivers. The point is that manufacturers often aim for a balanced setup that works across a wide customer base.
Select text to request an explanation
We are here to bring you everything and anything surrounding Porsche. I'm Mike.
I'm Aaron. And this is P-Car Talk. Alright, welcome to another episode of P-Car Talk.
I'm Mike. And I'm Aaron. Alright, let's get rolling. So Porsche is supposed to be
coming out with a second Dakar. It's coming out. So 992.2. Gonna have the
hybrid technology. Okay, hybrid turbo. So that'll be interesting. I mean, not that
there was significant turbo lag prior, but obviously it's new technology. You
spent the money to build it. You want to put it in the new car. You want to see if it
dies in the desert? Yeah, right. See how much sand we can get in this electric
system. I'm sure it'll be good for it. What about the like, that's a whole new
territory though. Think about because now if I have a Dakar, I'm putting it in the
water. So is that sealed down? Like, how does this? Yeah, probably has like a
splash guard, I would imagine. They didn't get into the details of it. Or maybe
they changed the location of the turbo to kind of like, yeah, maybe it's not gonna
be just up on the top. Like you do it like a jeep snorkel. It's just too big to
make turbo. That'd be hilarious. Like Clutus McFarlane style sticking out of the
back, like just sitting on the deck. That would be hilarious. So a couple
highlights on it. It's $250,000 before options. Okay, I feel like that's wild
though. The one before that started at 235. Okay, maybe it's wild. Not too bad, I
guess what $15,000 variant. Now they only made 2,500 in the first gen. Okay,
there is no announcement if this was going to be limited, but I would imagine
it would be. Do we hear that they sold out of them? Did they sell out? They didn't
share that information. I would imagine they did. Okay. Because I think because
it was so unique the first time around, I think it did. And let's face it, if
you're a Porsche file and you have money, it just continues to add your either a
whether you hang on to it and flip it, whether you sell it back and just trade
the money. It shows another car that you've purchased from the dealership on
your Rolodex and it's a limited car. So I would say further for their bookkeeping
purposes. Yes, they did probably move them all. Now did a lot of them get driven?
No, because I saw a lot of them get bought and then back dealerships. We haven't
seen too many. Yeah, back on dealerships and sitting there or whatever. And before
we get into like thoughts and all that other stuff about this, if you were one
of the first ones and first gen to buy this, like we do only a couple of people
that have them and they're driving them of all of the 9 11s, even though okay,
it's it was limited. Now there's going to be another run of it. So it's almost
kind of like I would say it's not like it, but it's limited in the sense of a GT
product limit limitations. However, the difference between this and a GT product
is this is so much more usable. Everybody it's ever driven one. We haven't
driven one and said it's literally the ideal 9 11. You don't have to worry
about nose pitch or any of that stuff coming to a parking lot. So it's
essentially it's a turbo s that's lifted on knobby tires. And I don't know,
like I can't think of a better daily driver Porsche for urban settings or
country settings. It doesn't matter if you live on the countryside or whatever
and you want to drive a sports car. This I can't think of a better sports car
with a warranty other than, you know, Lamborghini, Sturratos, one of them,
too. Yeah, but only because the car was created. Correct. I mean, and they're not
making any more Sturratos because they've already moved on from that
platform because they've already gone on to whatever the next the revalto or
whatever the next thing is. Now that may make that an all will drive version of
that, too, and make another Sturrato with their next gen car. But there's no
history behind that. Like there is. No, they're not. You know, it was just more
of kind of like, you know, a practice and play and we can do this. It was cool. I
think they're really cool looking again back to practicality. I think from a
form and function standpoint, the practicality of both of those cars are
awesome. Yeah, it takes a car that isn't really daily drivable in the sense of
not that the engine's not capable of it, but this but the settings you'll put
the car in in the day to day work that you like to hide the car in. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Basically all the speed and all that that you want. But you're
protected. You know, you got the knobby tires on it, too. So you're not
bottoming out in some LA Pothole or any place that you live that have crappy
roads like and you don't want to drive a truck. You have the money to afford
this. And I guess the cache of being it limited. That that really didn't like do
anything for me. I wish and that was what I was going to bring up next was they
didn't mention limitedness on this, but I imagine it will be because
thinking on both sides of the fence here, if they don't limit it, then people won't
rush to buy it. So it's it's it's one of those psychological things. So now if
it's limited and I tell people it's limited now, people that maybe I don't
really want one. But now if I tell you it's limited, now you want one. It's
weird how that we'll see that. I mean, they could also just not say it and maybe
people think it's implied. But is it really limited? Is it not to version? You
know? Yeah. Well, you can argue that about a GT three, right?
I guess it's true. So it's not the same. It's a little different. So that's why
I see what they really and I'm sure there's going to be some different stuff on it,
too. Yeah, I saw the prototype. It's got to be one thing. So then yeah, well, it's
going to be faster already. Yeah. So there's that. It's going to be faster.
Not that it needs to be faster, but it'll be faster. And I'm sure for
aesthetically, they'll change some stuff just because they have to. Like it'll
it'll look a little bit different. Who knows? They'll be like a thousand horsepower.
Right. For the Bob 1000. Now, do you think do you think that it could be as
successful if it wasn't limited? Or do you think it would does a psychological
aspect of that has to be limited? Has to be limited just on the fact that it's not.
That doesn't make sense for you to be at first time alone and be at the car, I guess.
Yes, it's usable, but I feel like it's like part of the I've got this and that and this is another
cool thing that's different. And it's a reason to have it. I don't think it's.
I think it was unlimited, but it's kind of like, cool. It's almost like an option back
for the nine at that point. I feel like it is almost like you can have a lineup and then it's
that because it's not a GT car. Yeah. So I think it is that but it's not called a turbo s. It's
not in the turbo s lineup either where it's like turbo s, turbo s cab, the car. Yeah.
But I would look at it, at least me seeing, seeing it, I think it's a, I think it's a trim line,
honestly. Like, because if you think about it, it doesn't have, let's just think about Gen 1,
since this is all specular right now as far as numbers go. So Gen 1 obviously has different
suspension. Yep. Okay. Different tires, we get that. It has a roof rack. You can pick a livery
package. You could do some different stuff with that. It has suspension travel like we talked
about it. That goes into the suspension thing. Yeah. It's not any more differently tuned than
than a turbo s. So in my comparison to this where I'm saying, okay, so we've taken a turbo s and
we've changed the suspension and we've changed this and we've changed that. Okay. And now we've
limited that car. Okay. So you've changed some suspension components, you've changed wheels,
you've changed this, you've put fancy paint on it, you maybe can do some different configurations
with the interior, but that doesn't make that car limited because then like you're saying,
okay, well, I could take a GT3 and then if I lift the GT3 and I put tires and all that other stuff
on it, it's a totally different thing. And I can only make 2,500 of those. That's like, dude,
no, it's still just a GT3, but it's a trim line of the GT3. So I'm saying it's... Yeah,
but you can argue this factor, the ST being a 3RS and still a trim line in the 3RS, but it's not.
Yeah, or touring even, right? But the difference with the 3RS and the ST is the engine is totally
different. Okay. And the gearing is totally different. Oh, yeah, that's true. So like...
Until the... There's more similarities here and the bodywork's different. Yeah. So yes,
there's bodywork different on the Dakar because they put the cladding and they put skid plates
and all that stuff. Do you think they'll limit it? Do you think so? I mean, something cool if
they are going to limit it, they like stop you from getting the DOT 1 liveries. Like, you can't
have these DOT 1 liveries, but here's DOT 2 liveries. Probably not because I don't see how they
can because they pretty much... I saw all different types of liveries for DOT 1, so I don't see how
they can just not allow those to happen. If I just... There's got to be more changes now
from like a Turbo S to that in the sense of I don't care what it is. I'm not the engineer and
I'm not manufacturing for them, but I'm just saying if you really want to differentiate it,
like for example, you brought up the ST, not that I'm like trying to hold you to that, but
you know, I had different gearing and all that stuff. Okay, we'll put different gears in it and
put like a different tune in it or something. Change it enough to where it's not... Oh, well,
it's basically just a Turbo S with like plastic stuff on it. Yeah, give it more borrower, right?
Or something. Like make it have something different from its power plant, whether that be gearing,
whether it's something. Don't make it... Oh, well, basically it's a lifted Turbo S. Not that that's a
bad car, but don't tell me it's like limited just because you put some skid plates on it,
lifted its suspension, it can articulate, it can do all this stuff. That sounds great and all,
but I don't... That doesn't... For Porsche, that seems like really low hanging fruit. They're better
than that, I guess, is my point. Like that's kind of like a chintzy way to say, well, we're making a
limited car. Do they think that they'll get new customers because of a DOT 2 or do you think
they might do both those things? I don't think that they're chasing those customers. I think if
anything, they're chasing the customers who didn't get a shot at a DOT 1. That's what I think.
That's why I think there's around two of this. And I also think they're hard up for money.
So there's... Yeah, probably. There's that. And they already have the blueprint for it. It's an easy
it's an easy move for them. It's not a momentous chassis change for them.
Probably a couple race techs and a team can have this done in an afternoon to a standard
Turbo S, to be honest with you, if we're being real. Now, is it different in the sense of like,
does it make you feel different? Yeah, the dynamics of it driving are totally different
than a standard Turbo S. We all know that. That's not a secret. But the heart of the car and the
DNA of that car is too similar, in my opinion. I mean, even with their the different like,
even like, let's take a Carrera T, for example, it's a base Carrera, right? It's not just a base
Carrera because they don't make a manual on a base Carrera anymore. So the Carrera T is the only
one with a manual transmission. So see what I'm saying is that car is different enough, even though
that and I'm not comparing, it's not limited. Exactly. I'm comparing, trying to compare apples
to apples here for the best I can within their own lineup. But that car is different enough.
And it's also not limited, right? So it's like, okay, yeah, and there's a little bit of an upcharge.
Okay, it runs the same power plant as a base car, but it has a little bit different blueprint,
it's manual, it's this, okay, we're running different seats that aren't like, it's almost
kind of like the Dakar in a way. But it's not, but they're limiting the Dakar because it's, oh,
hey, it's a Dakar. Because you want to know why? Because you can't flagship something within Porsche
without putting a limited number on it. Meaning like, and I say flagship, not in sense of like,
oh, it's a turbo west, that's our flagship car. I'm saying flagship, like with being limited,
meaning, oh, it's special. And we've deemed it special. So it's gonna sell out. Yeah, we've
christened it special. And how we've christened it special is saying we're only making this amount
of money. But that's how they, that's how they determine that. I think if they don't, I think
they feel if they don't do that formula, but they won't sell out. Do you think if they did that with
like, 9 11 T's and said, okay, we're only selling 2,500 9 11 T's, you think those would just sell
Yeah, I think so too. They just start trying out. It's because of that, though.
But again, it just didn't. Did they sell more than that for grudges? I don't know.
I mean, currently, I don't know. I mean, I don't think the very first gen
sold that many. I think if I think they sold a lot more 992.1s, then they did 991.2s. If I'm
honest, yeah, a lot more because there's a lot more 992.1s for sale than there are 991.2s.
Yeah, I think that I think that was still early days of like, people didn't understand that
you know, capabilities. Yeah. And I also think it turned into one of those things where
people, you got to get the lower in there, like the old bro, this is the thing to get people
don't know about this. Yeah, it's got to have a little bit of history, right? Like when it's brand
new, everything's not as well received initially. Even we've talked about this prior in the past
with the GT3 situation when 996 came out, it wasn't well received. Everybody's kind of like,
what is this? I got to pay more for less. Like this doesn't make any sense. That's
so it's almost kind of getting people to understand. And I think because that
there was another iteration of the Carrerati, I think people understood it a little bit more
since it already lived a little bit. I think it got kind of a knock from them. And this is a little
bit of Porsche's fault, but it's probably part of their marketing department's fault where they
tried to like push that 991.2 where they was, well, it's lighter, you know, it's 100 pounds lighter
and all that other stuff. And it's like, oh, 100 pounds lighter, like what'd you do? It's like, oh,
well, you know, we just lighten the glass up a little bit. So it's like, I think they probably
could have saved that. But I guess they were reaching in the sense of like trying to find the
enthusiast spec to say, okay, well, we made it a little bit lighter, people used to complain,
you know, people are complaining about the 991 being such a big car over the 997, all that stuff.
So I think that's why their marketing department went that way with it. But
I think they should have focused on like other things that that car had where
hey, it has rear steer, you know, option to come standard with like LSD, the base 991.2 doesn't,
Carrerabase doesn't come with standard LSD, like this car does, like stuff like that, like the seats
I mean, the Carrer T was technically the modern RSA.
Yeah, pretty much. And in all senses, because it's a great comparison, because it has different
seats like the RSA had different seats too, right? So it's just a hair lighter. Yeah,
but it's set, but it's lighter. It's lighter. It's got a different glass. It's got that has
a little bit different look, like, you know, the RSA had a different tail, like this one has a
little bit, you know, they they gave gray accents on the mirrors and the wheels to kind of give it
some touches there, you know, to give it give it some that's a great comparison, actually. And
another car that wasn't very well received the 964 RSA, people are kind of like, dude,
this isn't a this isn't an RS. What is this? Now they're coveted, right? Like people want them.
I mean, people have been wanting them. It's not like today people want them. I mean,
I haven't seen one of those for sale in a very long time. I mean, they made me to triggered
like the came in tees. They did not do another iteration of that.
I must not work. I think it was not well received. They did them a con tee also.
Yeah, I remember them. I think also not very well received.
And that should tell you something too. I guess signaling, if you're looking at Porsche stuff,
if you start seeing the two iteration means people bought them. Yeah. Porsche is wanting
and willing to invest more money into them to make them even better than they were.
I think those two stretches, though, the McCann tee and the Cayman tee were just
like trying to match the lineup. And it just doesn't and also just a money grab. Yeah. Where
they could have just kept it with the 9-11 because if you think about it, at least at least the 9-11
had going back to a long hood car where it's like there was a 9-11 tee. Yeah. Like then.
But how many people like that's another thing too. You know, we always get nostalgic about we know
one thing's reference, but a lot of people don't. Yeah. But you know, I don't know. I think that's
a glass half full type of situation because I think the people that did buy them do know though.
And maybe that's why so many people didn't buy them because they don't know
that there was an original tee. And I think that's kind of a cool in a way. Yeah. Where
that's where you can pull on the heartstrings of the enthusiast specs. And I think that car
is more suited, meaning the 9-11 for an enthusiast style spec car where they tried to push that to
other stuff. It didn't make sense because there's no lineage there other than basically you're
chasing spec. You're like, Oh, well, our tea specs supposed to be, you know, enthusiast spec. So you
got cloth seats in a Macan and it's cooler and it's this and it's that. And it's just kind of like
of all things. They didn't do a cayenne to either. Yeah. I just think that
that was that time where that before they were heavy into EV and they were really just
making things to make things and making money almost on anything. And maybe someday people
were like, Oh, yeah, I remember they made a Cayman tee. That's pretty cool. I'm not saying
they're not cool. I'm just saying it just doesn't it doesn't have what you said before. It doesn't
have that cache. It doesn't have that lineage. It doesn't have that heritage to stand it up
and give it its strength. And even though the 911, the first gen of that modern gen of it
had that strength, it still didn't sell well. Do you think this decars another GT2 GT2 RS test?
Yeah, maybe. I think so, maybe. I mean, they're not going to be taking orders on this till late
this year anyways. I think it's I mean, I hate to say it. I think it's kind of a stop fill in a way
because they don't really have any if you really look at their calendar coming up, unless they're
going to make that announcement that you just talked about like that GT2 RS that we've think that
has been coming or going to show up sometime. It's a good fall thing. Yeah. So maybe this will
this announcement that I mean, they haven't officially announced anything. These are just
spy shots. But if they announce it over the summer, like this will fill them until like
they have another product release. So I'm thinking like, obviously, they know they're going to sell
them. I think it's not that challenging project for them. I think also, since it's not a GT product,
I think now both departments, meaning Porsche itself has its own special products, meaning like
they, you know, they made the 50th anniversary, you know, the club sport, they do their own things
with special cars. And I feel like since they have their teeth in this and this is theirs,
like they they are itching to make something. Because if you think of something that's come
out of that department, I think the last thing that's come out of there was what that the manual
turbo s essentially, right? So they're itching to come out with something. Now, they really want to
change some shit up. They should probably put a manual in this. How gangster would that be?
They've shown that they can do it because they put it in that other turbo s and those things sold
like an asinine amount and people want them and they're desirable and all that other stuff.
Why they haven't made like a Dakar Dakar s or Dakar RS?
Yeah. And honestly, why wouldn't they make like because you're not going to be putting down like
so the Porsche's argument of putting in PDK transmissions are lap times, right? The car's
not made for that. It's faster this way. Okay. Well, this car is supposed to operate off road.
So you're not supposed to put down crazy lap times with this anyways. It's it's purely made
for fun and back to your gearing thing. You can change it up and make it and it could be different
because of that. And now I could maybe be more on board to say, well, hey, it's manual. Now it's
limited. I actually don't know. I was thinking about this the other day, like Doug was saying a
thing that makes so much sense. If anything's limited through Porsche, clearly they have the
capability to make a manual transmission. They're just choose not to. Why doesn't every single one
of their cars that they make outside of like a three RS because I get it because that's solely
track and they're hard stop that that's never going to happen. And I get that. Okay, fine.
Moving forward. But something like this, this would be a perfect platform to put another
a manual in. I mean, again, they've shown that they can put a manual in a turbo west chassis.
They just did one. Yep. So they did it in the 991 or or they want to make their CXX options.
Let that be another option. Let that be an expensive option. $50,000 option. Even for
your three RS. Let it be. Yeah, whatever. Like a crazy number. Right. Like, I mean, upscale it
for that. But I'm saying if they wanted to do this, they say, Hey, we can do it.
I mean, if they want to grab money, you know, there's going to be people option it. I mean,
really have a like a BTS car be a BTS car where you can literally and honestly can't think of
a cooler platform to put it in. Because think about rowing the gears on a lifted newer turbo
s. That would be so cool. People, I mean, these are going to sell either way. But not how much
you being able to kick out their air and yeah, like how cool would it be to just be able to
say that you have this? Like what it and they don't. I mean, to be clear, portion never makes cars,
new cars to think about diminishing cars in the past. They don't care about that stuff.
They can make a limited run of the manuals, hit up Lee Keen, do a collab, do a Keen safari,
do 10 of them. It's crazy interiors. Why not do exactly what you just said and just
make the option to say, All right, it's a $50,000 upgrade option.
You have an enthusiast brand. Why not? Why not take and you'd like to upsell?
Yeah, why not offer that? And I'm just saying for their limited run cost, right? Why not?
And if it's even more of a hassle because you got a development for the three RS,
they're already stupid expensive. Anyways, charge an extra 100 grand. I promise you,
you want to charge 100 grand and then by then have a timeline. Yeah, you gotta wait a year.
That's 100 grand. Yeah, you want to be this, you're going to be the only one of probably 10.
Exactly. And you know, the people will take that ride and they'll wait because they'll want that.
Yeah, I give it the option that you can have S.D. Gearing or you can have
the Gearing in the past. They're already doing so much ala cart stuff anyways,
like why wouldn't they offer that for all of their specialty products? Like you want to
be limited, be truly limited, be limited. Yeah, you want to be a luxury brand. Yeah.
Upcharge for that, like offer it. Why is that not on the table? It should be offered.
You want a car in general, 100 grand. All right, now let's start building it.
Yeah. I mean, that's that's pretty much where we're at. That's where we're at.
Anyways, we're almost at, you're almost at $150,000 sticker for a base car.
I mean, they can close out all of that secondary market if they did stuff like this,
not that people are taking their decars and going and manual swapping them. But I'm saying
you can just solve that problem by offering it from the factory, meaning like it's not a standard
option, but you could say, hey, dealers get to service it. That means your techs have to come
and get certified on it. So now you're getting money back from your dealers because they're
going to get certified. Your dealers are getting more service from a specialty. Plus it adds so
much more clout to the car. I feel like because it's supposed to be special, we'll make it special
then. Not slapping a stupid livery on it. It's making it special and lifting it. That's not
special. Yeah. Make something that's not okay. Hey, what's different than the first one that we made?
We're going to put another automatic transmission. It's like, oh, but we're using electric
tow roads. It's like, is it that much different? Like, come on. Like, is that that's not argument
enough for me to be that much different? Like, okay, yeah, there's no spool time. Yes, they've
re on. It's fast. Like make your make your little tune have like anti lag tune and like, yeah,
I'm just thinking about like, think about the buzz and the press that they would get if they offered
that option that you just mentioned for this car. Yeah, people were like, dude, you can buy a manual
to cars. Oh my God, insane. And also spend the money, put some lawyers together and get the
Rothman's Lever to actually have a Rothman's Lever. Yeah, right. No kidding. Again, honestly,
this is the time to do this. They have the newer CEO in there. He's new now. Like, shake some stuff
up, dude, do some stuff, like put your stamp on some cool stuff. He doesn't walk in and all he
writes is just manual. Yeah, right. Right on the whiteboard. What's that for? Yeah, we're bringing
it back to focus for the enthusiasts because we feel like we've got to go far away from that.
Should just be like, if the cars are limited, manual is an option. Yeah. I don't care what
you guys put in there. Okay, how much does it cost to make one 1010 grand? Okay, let's 10x that
100 grand option. Yeah, not a lot of people are going to take it. But guess what? Let's offer it
there so that people don't cry about it. And the ballers who want it can buy it. Okay, cool,
whatever. Or people want to save up to buy it. I'm just saying like, I would care more about the
cars that you're leaving behind as a company, you know, they used to care about crap like that.
They used to care about the lineage of the car, meaning like they wouldn't just make it and be
like, all right, cool, we sold it. It's done. That's an old product. That was a dot one. We're
on the dot two. We don't care about that car anymore. They used to make cars and be like,
okay, we want them to survive. We want you, we care about this, we care about the enthusiasts
still driving and we care about, I feel like that kind of got lost. And I think if they focus a
little bit more on like, I mean, that's not that difficult, like maybe one thing like they used
to like, see, they kind of screwed themselves in a way because if they never did that in that,
that anniversary car,
people wouldn't people wouldn't go, oh, you said you couldn't do that in a turbo and you did it.
You know, now it now it's there. So it's like, it's almost kind of like you go to a sandwich
shop and they're like, oh, we can't make that sandwich. And then you see somebody like sit down
next to you and you're like, well, that one's different. We that was just he's been here for a
long time. So he we ordered make that for special. And it's like, okay, so you can do it. You're
just choosing not to. Okay. So my point is, is they can do it. They're just choosing not to.
They should choose to do it. They need money. They have manual transmissions.
I mean, it couldn't have been that much more difficult to do that with that car.
And you're already, you're already able to contain it because you're limiting the car.
So it's not like it's that big of an ask on a, we're not telling you to switch up your entire
production chain on your I-11s. Well, here's the thing is not like, all right, they're saying, oh,
the the three RS pulls up too much, people couldn't shift in enough time, whatever their excuse is
for that car. That's the gearing change the tune. Well, I'm just willing to dismiss that one all
together. That's fine. Okay. Well, clearly they were not concerned about putting a manual transmission
in the Turbo S for that making that specialty car. Were they? No, because they weren't worried about
like, well, it spools up too fast. The car is too fast. It's got too much horsepower. You didn't hear
any of that shit coming out of Porsche for that car, did you? No, they made it. So guess what?
All of that shit gets put to bed now. So now you can do that. You can do it. So why don't you do it?
Why is that not being offered? What, because you're worried about diluting that car for
future? No, you're not. That doesn't matter. Because if you started offering that as an uptick,
as opposed to like, oh, hey, I just want to put a manual transmission and it's not
a small uptick. If it's a big uptick, like if you bought a Wint, you can't even buy a standard
Turbo. So let's just say you go buy a new Turbo S. You're already spending a ton of money. Yeah.
But if you want to spend another 100 grand, if that's the number to put a manual transmission in a
PTS 2026 Turbo S, why not? Why not? Because it's never going to be the same as that anniversary
car anyways, just because it has a manual. It's not because it's not limited. It doesn't have the
numbers. It doesn't look like that one. Those all have similar things. You know, the hound's tooth
interior, they have all that stuff, the stuff that makes them the special thing that they are.
So putting that transmission into something else like a newer Turbo S, if someone optioned it,
isn't going to dilute that. They did take the money. Yes. Make it almost like what's the old saying,
right? Give me the I don't want to do it price. And that's the I don't want to do a price. But
there will be people who will want to still do that because they have stupid money. And they are
now realized that's an option. And they also know that what it cost. And so now you have a baseline
of whatever you say. All about exclusivity, right? I want to feel more special. Why does
anybody even do PTS? Because they want theirs to be different. Okay, now you're giving them another
layer to make their car even more different, even if it costs another $100,000 to put a transmission
in the car that you already have on the shelf. You have another upsell and your upsell is different
gearing. And it makes this feel more special, right? Like, hey, I have a manual PTS Turbo S,
a new one, whatever, play on our heartstrings, do the right thing. Like people will be happy just
to see them and people will think they're cool. And also there'll be a camp of people will are
like, dude, you paid extra $100,000 for manual. And you're like, Yeah, I did because I can.
I'm like, cool, good for you. Glad you actually pick that option. You know, and a lot of people
probably won't. They'll probably only sell like 5%. But even that 5% will make those that much more
valuable and make the car more special. And it'll also be a good thing and exercise for them to say,
we can do this. If you want it. It's all a car, man. It just how much how much money do you want
to spend on that also would still prepare you for having your flagship car, which we still don't
have that replacing the 19 once you get there. Now you already have people that have their white
appetites for half million dollar car, maybe 600 grand, all done. And now you're ready for the TRS
78 flagship it male and half. And then you can upgrade from that. They're still, I think every
manufacturer is screwing that up because to be honest with you, like MSO MSO customers have all
the money in the world. If they offered them a manual McLaren for, okay, because they're McLaren,
let's call it an extra $200,000 option. You're telling me that you don't have the capability
and you don't want to mess with it to develop a special area in your place where you make maybe
100 or 200 manual transmissions a year for those 200 customers that you charge $250,000 a pop for
one that you don't want that extra money. Dude, there's no way. There's no way. I just don't,
I don't believe it. Like in same thing with Ferrari, like you refuse to make any old manual
cars for a very long time. Well, why don't you offer a special option? Like they could call
their shot and people would still do it because that's how high level. I mean, even Porsche could
do that. They have clients that have stupid money that are partial loyalists. They could say,
you know, I'm just going to say Ferrari because they always, you know, they charge $100,000 for
a carbon fiber package and people pay it. So if they charge $500,000 to put a manual transmission
in an 812 super fast, you don't think people would do it? I promise you they would. Because
guess why? It would be the factory doing the job, which means it's going to be serviced. It's
going to be warrantied. It's going to be all those things that a lot of people like to put in the
OEM parts, whether or not we feel that way. And I know there's aftermarket transitions for a lot
of that stuff to make stuff to our conversions to make it to manuals. And yes, it gets done,
but it's not the same. I just feel like if the big boss says it, like that's the problem is the
people in power are not radical enough to make those decisions in any of those industries,
like to sit there and say, oh, well, it's a lot of money and they don't want to make the wrong
decision. But think about it, if you're making the client stand it up, meaning like they have
to pay for it, then you're not really out of pocket. No, because you could figure out the
number, what that's going to cost. And then you put that number down. You tell me you can't run
that down and figure out that's what it's going to be to run it. That's not that hard to do.
Maybe it's a loss leader the first year, but you got half of it.
And also think about the word once that starts traveling around, that that's an option.
That changes the specialty of what you offer by a lot. Because at the end of the day,
all these guys are all competing with each other. What differentiates you? What makes you special?
Oh, well, we make a manual transmission. Oh, you do? Oh, but in like one car or two cars.
If it's not a GT product, the only car you could buy is a Carrot T. It's like, come on, man, like
what? So I mean, I would dilute it even to the level of, for Porsche at least to say, hey,
yeah, it's an asinine number, but you want a brand new Turbo S and you're already spending 350,
what's another 100 if you want to have a manual car? I mean, that that is a game industry changer
where you're bringing that back where you're you know, where people spend so much time trying to
support data to say, well, nobody orders that car. What's not even an option? It never has been.
So how can you even pull data for that? What you're basing that off the base car? Well,
the guy who can afford $500, $600,000 is not buying a Carrot T. So you're not capturing
the proper data behind that. And I think back to your I think you was talking about Doug. I know
they were pulling other statistics for just manual transmissions and sales and I purchased
this at like 40%. Exactly. Some crazy BMWs was pretty high too, actually. So even if they were
like 38%, something like that. Yeah, both those. I mean, that's close enough to 50 for me. Yeah.
And then just regular cars. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, that's not an upsell there, but that's
probably missed opportunity. I'm just saying like, if you're going to like Porsche does so much
bespoke crap, so does all of these places, right? Like, if the money's no object for you, you can
get so much crap done to the car. Why is that not part of that? I guess menu. Why is that not on the
menu? It should be. And it should be the most expensive piece of wagyu on that menu, right?
If you are not even just that, I mean, just if you and I don't know if they have a problem
with the rest of my things, but if you treat it just like that, you could do custom wheels too.
Yeah. Just go ahead and have custom wheels added that list of after you get the manual
transmission and just have a fully coach built by the manufacturer car. Yeah. I mean,
sky's the limit on that stuff. But I think the real I think the real thing would be
the manual transmission because that's something mechanical that people every time and people
can't get that. Say like, if you go buy a new Ferrari, like it's not even an option. Can you
imagine what? Let's just say they picked a car, but it's not even their halo car. So like they
want like people to be like the availability to be able to get it. Like, so let's just call it
what the F8, you know, that car was hated by a lot of people or let's just take the 296. A lot
of people like the 296. Well, think about if you had a 296 with a manual option, like a gated
manual for that car, and it was $100,000 option. I promise you that if they did the data on that,
it would be way higher people selecting manual transmissions for that car because no one's buying
a Ferrari as their daily. So yes, they're there's like, Oh, the usability of the dual clutch
transmission, it's faster, it's this, it's all that thing. Okay, great. Yes, it is engaging on
its own. But at the same time, if you're driving the car for fun, we've established this a long time
ago. A lot of automotive journeys establishes a long time ago. If it's your fun car, you don't
mind going slower. You don't mind rowing the gears. That's the whole point you want to operate the
machinery. You're not chasing just that speed. I think that offering that as a sidebar
car can change all of that. Yes, it's not a standard option. Yes, it's an in crazy,
huge, expensive option. And whatever the number they decide to significantly
like make that change for themselves, whatever that number has to be, that's what they should do.
So speaking of manuals, do you think this PDK conversion to an electronic manual
is going to be that answer? I think it's going to be unique in the sense of
it will, I think it's not going to be standard. I still think that's going to be an option.
So I don't think they're going to take basically, let's just call it white bread,
meaning the PDK and try to reinvent bread. Like, I think that's going to stay.
We got toast. Yeah, exactly. Look what we did. We put some butter on it. Like,
but I think it's going to be an option. And I think what this does is kind of,
I think it's the go between between what I was talking about and what you were discussing with
the upgraded manual transmission where it's actually gears and hydraulics and all that other
stuff. So let's get into what you were talking about, because that's our next topic. So let's
dive into that a little bit. So what this is what Aaron's talking about is Porsches developing
this transmission. And if you're obviously no one's driven a Koenigsegg, but if you have a red or
heard or anything about that, Koenig said has already piloted this transmission and using it
in one of its cars. So it basically it's it's a dual style transmission, but it's a fly by wire
transmission, meaning like it's not actually connected to anything. But there's sensors within
the transmission or I should say gearbox, because it's not transmission in the gearbox that sends
signals to the transmission when you shift from first to second, it that sensors tell the active
transmission that's there to shift. Yeah, just like clicking the click in the paddle. And there's
a and there's a clutch pedal if you guys are wondering so like they can make it feel so you
can press on an M like it's not going to feel empty. They can put resistance on it. So it feels
like it's hydraulic because they've started to do this a lot and some racing on people that are
not have it's all resistance, but it's electronically controlled so they'll be able to go on the
computer and put 100 pounds, whatever it is. And so you still have that pressure. You know,
luckily with a regular car, you have you're still going to have that thrill. Yeah, the clutch and
that's that'll make a lot of that cool. The same thing probably for the gearing to there's probably
resistance they can add in. Oh, for sure. And they said that in the article, the gearing itself,
like that's makes in that gearbox, it's going to feel like a normal basically it's going to feel
just like you're shifting a transmission if you choose. And then you can put it in full auto mode
so it'll be dual. My first reaction and like thought was 991.1 electric steering. Wasn't that
great when it first came out. But now they've kind of you know, they've had years to dial it in. So
I think maybe this will be great when it comes out. But I think if they do pursue it, it is a way
to get a manual back. Yeah, I don't get better. I think I think it won't be bad just because
there's no rush on it. Meaning like they don't have to switch over at they can they can introduce
this at any point for any model that they're ready to do it at like put it in the car. Yeah.
That perfect, right? Could be exactly what I'm talking about. The interesting thing will be I
think is that where does it fall like in their lineup, meaning them? Will all cars have that
option? Or will it be an option? Or will it be standard? I think how what how they want to
like plug it in is going to be interesting to me like how they actually utilize it where
I thought in my mind it was like, you're either going to make it like it's a manual shifting car
or it's just a PDK type thing or is it or is this both? This is both. Yeah. Okay. So basically,
for example, if it's a PDK only car, meaning like a three RS, like this could be in that
and you would have the idea that you're shifting because essentially the PDK is still going to
be shifting for you. But when you move like it'll just click the paddle like in an automated sense
somewhere else instead of you doing it. Do you think they leave paddles in these cars?
I don't think so. Well, there's no reason they can't. Well, I say I say they do because when
you go to auto mode, yeah, like you could still probably click the paddle if you wanted to. I
don't think there wouldn't be any confusion. Yeah, I don't think I mean, there were for a while
that people probably don't know but like 997 cup cars and race cars had paddles and
a sequential shifter for a while. Yeah, they still had that like that the gear shift in the
center like and then after that they graduated to paddle only but there was a time frame where
they were both in the car. So it was almost kind of whatever you wanted. You could bang that shift
that shift stick or you could paddle shift. So yeah, I mean, it could be there like I don't see
why it wouldn't. I just think my brain just goes full like more in the sense of like how
where's the application of this, right? Like is this going to be...
Well, everything is PDA now. Will this be the supplement for their manual though?
I think so. So meaning like if you want a GT3, will it not be a traditional manual anymore? And
if you want manual, this will be the option. I think so. I think it moves in that category
because now almost eliminate the real manual. 100% because now you have PDA only which is what
they've always wanted. They don't have to deviate. Now it's just like almost an add-on, right? An
add-on. Now how long does it last? I don't know. How long? Like is there... How are they testing
usage? Yeah. And we say there's going to be good feeling. And if it's like... Is there going to be
sensor based, man? Like what if the sensors fail? Like so now your car has to be towed because of that?
You say what if? You mean when the sensors fail? Are you just going to lose third gear?
Just like it's done. You get on this radio in the mountains. Guys, I don't have third
anymore. They're like what are you talking about? Your car's automatic. Yeah. I don't got third or
sixth. I don't know what's choosing it. I'll just put it in auto mode. It'll be fine. It'll figure it out.
I mean I guess it's like losing a real gear but... I guess. It'll be very interesting. I'm sure like
anything... You could have launch control. Before dual clutch transmissions came out,
we couldn't fathom... Yeah, single clutch. Like we were like this is stupid. Like why did they
ever do this? And then it graduated that and they're like oh my god this is like lightning fast. This
is insane. So like as humans we adapted. Like we'll adapt to this. That'd be a funny conversation
though. You had the single clutches. They're like what if we have two clutches for each gear?
All right. Yeah. I think the interesting thing with this though is it is what you say. I think
there'll be man. I think there'll be a lot of people pissed off. However, if it is what you say
it's and it becomes that, does this change the dynamic of the lineup in a sense of in a good
way? I think so. Based on what we were just talking about prior to this. Like we're said oh you pay
100 grand for an upgraded transmission. Could I do this now? Yeah. In a Turbo S? It's only 50.
The 100 grand is for a real turbo. Yeah. Do you want synthetic or do you want the real thing?
Could still be another marketing thing. They could still do that, right? But
and then you wonder if it is available will it... Like you almost want to think that you're not
going to waste all this time and money just to make it and only still only be able to put it in
certain cars, right? Instead of like masquerading... Have they been making this the entire time for
because it's like Tronic? Have they been trying to make this the entire time for some of the EVs
that we don't know? Yeah. I think that's probably where it started, honestly. Boxster came and
it has to be. It's probably where this technology came and they probably realized you're like we
can use this in an ice engine car and then once they probably started the wheel started rolling
there and they're like oh we could... Dude we can put this in a Turbo S. Oh we can put this in the
3RS. Like oh... Like I think if it's available for the 3RS seems gimmicky a little bit right now
but if they get it smooth and it works properly it could really change the dynamic of that car,
right? Like it changed it in a really cool way where there's no more... Well I wish it had...
They're done wishing. Yeah. You're like it feels like a manual. It operates like a manual.
The technology is so good nowadays. I would imagine Porsche is so good about their product.
It's not going to be released if it's not great. Yeah. Because they don't need to. It's not like
something like we don't have a transmission. Hurry up guys. Like what are you doing over there? Like
just pump it out. It's good to go. Like it's going to be perfect before it comes out.
I just hope they don't do the thing where it's like well the 3RS is already good the way it is.
We don't want to screw with it. This is more actually based off of what we thought about before.
Hey you know we only made the Carrera T as a manual but now you know our lesser models like if you
want to... If you want a C2S you can get this transmission with it and that way you can feel
like you're rowing the gears. Like I hope they don't kind of like I don't know handicap it in
is the best way I can say and and and only put it in those cars where and then you wonder what the
the cars that already have manual transmissions like the GT3 and the Carrera T the real manual
transmissions do they sub this in in place of it. I hope they don't do that but in a way
that's new technology I think they would I don't think for lineup consistency though
you know what this is almost kind of like this is this is a playbook out of Porsche in a way
already there remember the Sport-O-Matic oh yeah and the Long Hood cars yeah not the same but kind of
you know a little bit you know and some rare rare mid 70s mid-year cars
kind of but not really you know clutchless transmission things
yeah they hadn't had to have the option for it to be clutchless is also interesting because
there is a clutch I mean that's like it's electric so it doesn't matter so it can
fits in sequential mode or whatever you almost wonder if the sensor like if it's going to be
so hardcore where this there's going to be a sensor to make you engage the clutch
yeah there's probably before you can shift so you probably a button to like turn it to that
mode or something yeah because if they don't make it as like a lockout like that then it
really defeats the purpose right and then on top of that too are the sensors so good if you
have it in manual mode and you have it in gear can you stall it oh that'd be I mean maybe I wonder
and then well like we've seen other actual manuals with the 11R when you have the flat foot
shifting yeah so I mean that'll be I'm just saying because there's like variants to it right so like
if you're at a stop light and you're in first gear if you let out the clutch with a car stall
or if you are in first gear do you have to feather the clutch like you do in a real manual
transmission or can you just have it in first and have your foot on the brake because then that's not
that's like you get to heel toe and yeah like all of these questions right like how many how manual
is it exactly how manual is it I bet there'll be some limitations to it though because what I just
said they probably will take that that stalling part out I bet well they already have the what even
like further down to like GTIs they have the the electric brake holds for like hilses yeah
like that so I'm sure there's there's different different ways of correcting for it because
not that you care so you're just still neutering it yeah if it if it goes that way we don't know
that they haven't said that I mean I figure if you I mean this has to be it's not standard so let's
just go from that they haven't said that but I know it's not going to be a standard situation so if
you option for this why would you not want those features like why would you not want to be able
that's another opportunity for our tuner to get in there and be like all right we're gonna make it
this sensitive and now we're gonna make it because I think that it should just come out the box that
way though like you should if you're opting to have it should be a pseudo it should be a one for one
yeah it should stall because then it then like it the first time it does install
like mentally you'll be checked out on it you're like so do I even need to actually
press that to shift like what's the point and with PDK's I know that just like a lot of things you
would want to hard shift but I mean the harder they get used the better it's yeah for those cars
so I wonder if you get to really be mean to them and yeah it'll be interesting I mean this this
technology isn't like super new I mean it's out there I mean Hyundai has it in their EV electric
car like they have that yeah clutch pedal shifting you can shift it doesn't do anything but it lets
you okay the car has enough sensors where it goes through like it changes like hopefully hopefully
we're doing our engineering and not buying from somebody else I mean they've done stuff like that
in the past but yeah who knows how long this has been in development I mean Koenigsegg could have
bought some of that technology to put in their car already from Porsche was his was his electric or
was it a weird I didn't remember if this was electric or not I knew that he has a technology
to do both but I thought it was like I don't feel like it was hydraulic or some weird I think it was
just felt the the mechanism still felt maybe it was the metal yeah it's just metal like you can
still do that you put metal gearing in it I think we're I think we're thinking too elementary in
the sense that they're gonna put like plastic gears in it yeah like you you throw metal gears
in that thing and anything and you can just put notches in it and it's gonna feel I mean we've
all seen that like you just take it you take a short shift gearbox with it attached to nothing
those are there's a Ferrari gated chapter and it goes click like yeah but I mean even like a
aftermarket like like shifter like meaning that were you attached to the cables and a lot of stuff
it's sitting on a counter and you push it still feels it still has resistance and weight to it
where you're moving it around like so that's what you're really feeling anyway so it's like if you
feel that there and it's not connected to anything same principles essentially says they killed the
short shift to market who knows aftermarket probably not because there's still probably a way to make
it shorter because right just take like hey just take your stock little sensor thing you put it on
the end of the yeah there's probably ways to or days put smaller like gears in it yeah you know I
mean you know Porsche's got to make a universal gear where it's kind of like doesn't feel too
short for certain people and doesn't feel too long somewhere in the middle and there's always
going to be ratios where you can make it tighter I'm sure but yeah this is a uncharted territory
right I doubt I doubt they do a retrofit though on anybody that already has a bk no they're not
going to they're not going to mess with that yeah all right well I don't have anything else to you
I guess learner driving manual it's coming yeah okay get your sim get your sim seat time up
all right see you guys thank you so much for listening to this episode of p car talk connect
with us on instagram at p car talk or online at p car talk dot com
Request an explanation for:
Request an Explanation
Heard something you'd like explained? We'll add it to this episode.
Sign in to request explanations for terms you heard.
Want to learn more?
Browse our glossary for plain-English explanations of automotive terms, jargon, and concepts.
See something that's not quite right? Our annotations are AI-generated and can sometimes miss the mark.
Click the flag icon on any annotation to suggest a correction.
