The Soul Of A Car, A Disposable Car, A Car For A Particular Time In Your Life | Episode 1,032

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And we're back.

Happy Tuesday.

And boy, does the internet still have thoughts on the prelude.

I love how you always put it.

I have thoughts.

I just thought, man.

Thoughts, man.

It's so true.

We were just talking about this.

This is what the internet has done for all of us, for better and for worse.

I mean, let's be honest.

It allowed you and I, two guys with no history in being car reviewers, to start a car review thing back in 2006-07.

Literally, we're like 20 years, we're coming up on it's crazy to say that.

That's the upside.

When I tell people that, they're like, wasn't that when YouTube was invented and like, stop it?

Essentially.

That's exactly what we're talking about.

But the other thing it's done is we all have no filter between what's at our braid.

I have thoughts at our ability to share that with the world.

And sometimes those thoughts are good.

And sometimes they should have percolated a little longer.

You can see people like, I'm going to share my knowledge.

But here's what's great.

If you haven't seen it yet, we did a piece with the prelude.

And we didn't just go to the prelude launch.

We actually spent our own money to go out to California to put the prelude with the Prius and the GR86 chassis.

In this case, it was a Subaru BRZ to talk about what the heck is prelude for?

We talked about it.

We're actually really proud of it.

You guys have had great response.

So thank you for watching it.

There are so many comments.

And I think it's amazing with all the preludes.

I'm very thankful, but all of the prelude stuff that's come out, people have shown up in hordes to our piece to just share their deep and intensive thoughts on the prelude.

And you pointed out something.

There's a lot of people in the comments of our prelude piece saying, I am the buyer for this.

Yes.

It's almost like the piece has given permission to people to admit publicly.

You're admitting I'm that buyer.

And I don't care what anybody else thinks.

And you know what?

That is the sweet spot for what I'm looking for.

And Honda was right.

But that happens to any car.

Of course.

Yeah.

There's always people that buy the cars that we're like, nobody should buy that.

People still buy it.

It happens.

Inexplicably.

Yeah.

Still.

Yeah.

Any car.

But it just shows that there's a adult conversation going on.

I feel like.

Well, that was our intention with the prelude piece.

The enthusiast have eviscerated it.

They drove the spec sheet.

Properly declared it unworthy.

And you know what?

It's not going to be everything to everyone.

And there isn't a car that is.

Well, and I want to clarify for those of you that haven't seen it.

And we'd love for you to watch it.

You can watch it on this YouTube channel right here.

Everyday Driver at YouTube.

You can find us there.

And we'd love for you to see it because it's a fun piece that we're proud of.

But the reality is you and I, I thought and I say this having now edited it.

I have a weird experience.

We do these pieces.

I'm in the car.

I do the thing.

And then this may sound weird to you watching or listening.

But honestly, when I'm editing it, I'm not seeing myself anymore.

There's just those are the two hosts.

So we got to make the host sound good.

We got to do the good stuff.

And that's a repeal.

That's me.

I said that.

I have those moments.

Literally.

I certainly do that.

And like, that's what I said.

I certainly do on our road trips.

I'm like, I don't even remember even saying, I don't even remember even being there.

But anyway, I was awake.

Exactly.

So that definitely happens.

But, but I have done this long enough now as an editor long before in the iron camera,

whatever you have as an editor in the room, it's just these are the tools.

Yeah.

I don't have any emotional attachment to the tools.

These are the tools we have to work with.

That's the footage.

So I'm that way now even editing myself.

I mean, I do have those times like that's what it looked like, huh?

Well, that's as good as that's getting anyway.

So yeah, whatever.

But it was interesting because I thought you and I did a good job was our intention of

this is not a prelude love fest.

No, but it's also not a prelude hate fest.

Exactly.

And apparently we were supposed to pick a lane, but we didn't pick a lane, but we talked

about it a lot.

So if you haven't seen that piece yet, we hope that you'll watch it because we talked about

the good and the bad and the other two cars in the midst.

So we love all of you that have seen it.

Thank you.

We've got a lot of really cool comparisons that have kind of fallen in our lap of late.

We got a couple of really cool comparisons that are coming up that have just kind of worked

out.

And it's one of the things I love about doing this is because we always stress about the

big films and we still are.

We're still stressing.

Yes.

But we're going to we have a lot of stuff coming up in the back half of the year.

But this first half of the year is the hard part for us because the weather is never typically

great and it's hard to get cars and a couple things.

This prelude was kind of one of them, but a couple things that kind of fall in our lap.

So we've got some good comparos coming.

Test drives are coming back soon and then they'll start to go into a regular cadence again,

which I'm excited about.

We have so much coming up before I get announcements.

Have a little bit of news.

Let's do news.

Agreed.

Have you heard?

I am really mixed on this piece of news because I hope it's cool.

If you haven't seen already and you haven't paid attention already, 2026 is the 250th

anniversary of this year country of ours.

America.

So they are doing the Freedom 250, the Grand Prix of Washington, D.C. August 21st through

23rd.

This is supposed to be Indy cars on the Grand Mall of Washington, D.C.

I am glad to not have to worry about the things I'm going to bring up logistics and logistics.

Yeah.

Running into vital things.

Security.

Yeah.

Creating a mass event, but it's not a known mass event.

My point being here, when people gather on the National Mall for inauguration, we've

done this a few times.

Security understands what that's going to be, how that's going to go down.

We get it, right?

This is an odd ball.

From a security perspective, I have to think there's some secret service people somewhere

losing their minds on 200-mile cars.

But then there's architects and people that keep these national monuments, all that kind

of stuff going, you're going to do what now?

I hope this happens and I'm excited about the prospect that I think what a really cool

thing.

Indy car and American race series.

Yes, I prefer F1, but the point is Indy cars and American race series, they look like F1

cars.

They're super fast.

Yeah.

Running around Washington, D.C.

That's really cool.

Even this teaser image I've got up on the screen here is really cool with an Indy car

in the foreground, capital in the background.

I'm just sitting here going, how real is this and how problematic is this and I'm thinking

quite problematic.

Just everything involved.

Who's going to pull this off?

Who knows?

How is this going to work?

My one recommendation is for D.C. to weld the manhole covers shut and that's not because

of security.

It's so they don't pull a Carlos signs where he's something to cover off one of them.

Yeah.

In Vegas.

Yeah.

In Vegas and destroyed his plank and the whole deal and he had to abide by the rules

and he did a masterful job.

So did the team abiding by the rules.

They were hot and pretty upset about it.

But they took their lumps and just weld the covers shut so that we don't have problems

with the cars because it's bumpy, different roads.

It's going to be crazy.

I mean, I haven't read about the course itself.

I don't know that they know.

My question is just like Vegas for F1.

Did they repave sections?

Did they grind curbs down?

Did they, you know, like the curbing would be installed or you're bringing up all the

stuff.

I know IndyCar rules are certainly different, but it's still going to be a road course.

It's not an oval.

It's not high speed.

Agreed.

GP wings.

It's going to be, you know, different arrow.

And so what are they going to do for just the surface itself?

And this is DC.

This is one of those moments that stuff tight corners.

Yeah.

I don't know.

This strikes one of those moments that during the middle of it happening, we're all going

to go, this is happening.

I mean, it's going to like like that kind of real, I think drivers even going to be like,

what is going on now?

You know what I mean?

They're going to watch themselves in the jumbo trauma as they go by like, I'm going

by the capital.

That's crazy.

I can't wrap my head around this yet, but I hope it's real and it seems like a cool

idea and there's going to be a lot of random 250 years of this country stuff happening

this year.

But this was the one I did not see coming, but I saw this announcement.

I was like, what now?

Well, I'm just looking forward to the flyovers.

How many jets and what jets are going to be in the air doing the flyover because all

of them gives you an excuse.

Yeah, it does.

Like if we're going to put jets in the air and do the cool, let's get all the cool ones

out there.

Right?

Somebody bring in all the jets.

Let's just fly them all.

How many do we have?

Yeah, bring them all.

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Very cool topic Tuesday today from Luke M. who writes to us asking, where is the soul

of a car?

Luke has been listening for a while.

Thank you, Luke.

Really appreciate it.

Through a series of events, he has come to question where the soul of a car is.

And ultimately, he comes to his own conclusion.

He thinks he knows.

This is pretty interesting.

Some car history from Luke, only in the enthusiast cars in order he's owned an SW20 non-turbo

MR2, which started his love for cars.

From there, he took a step back buying a 2011 Mazda Speed 3 and it's not a step back.

It's just a different car.

So it's a different platform.

It sounds like he didn't own a fun car at all for a little while between the two.

But then when he jumped back in, it was the 2011 Mazda Speed 3.

He did it like that.

Then he followed it up with an AP2S2000.

That's an icon we can all agree on.

2018 BMW M2, that's the first M2, right?

Like the very early one.

2018, yeah.

We had it in 2016 with the icons.

That's when they first came out with it.

That's right around the time they did the engine change.

Currently owns a 2011.

We always talk about this car, the Boxster Spider Manual.

That is a special car.

It's one of my favorite Boxsters.

And a 2018 Audi RS3.

Here we go.

Here's that spider.

I think this car is so sexy.

It's so good looking.

It's a great car.

And then here is that Audi RS3 that he's got.

I mean, representative examples, not these cars.

But you know what I mean?

So yes, he's got these.

All cars, except the RS3, have been manual.

The RS3 drew Luke in with its engine and an interest in seeing

what a dual clutch was all about.

He's heard it's quicker.

It's just engaging.

It's the future, right?

So in buying this car and owning it alongside the spider,

he's concluded the following statement.

Quote, quoting Luke, the soul of a car exists in the manual transmission.

He knows there might be fighting words, but he would like to state his case.

He's a diehard enthusiast and will regularly take 200 to 400 mile drives

to nowhere or for no reason, just for the love of driving alone.

Luke, you got to come on some of our adventures, because that's exactly what we do.

We take these fantastic drives just for the sake of driving.

It's one of my favorite days for sure.

Yeah.

He says the RS3 is an amazing, unique engine, but he doesn't think

that matters without a manual transmission.

Luke thinks there's an extra layer of connectivity you get with a manual car

that kind of cannot be matched or replaced by anything else when the goal

of the car is to have a driving experience.

Because of this, while the RS3 has a cool engine, it's a cool car.

It is. Yeah.

The five cylinders really cool.

And it's coming to the, the Gulf R apparently.

Oh yeah.

If they do that with a manual, that's going to be a special

once in a lifetime car.

But anyway, keep going.

Their sales will go up a little bit.

Well, it'll be one of those moment in time cars.

Anyway, moving on.

Luke cannot wait to get rid of this car.

Who would like to buy Luke's, I don't know what color it is, RS3.

He'd like to get back into another manual car, despite having the boxer spider.

But again, the RS3 he thought would be amazing.

And he can't, this is his words.

He cannot wait to get rid of it.

It's a cool car.

It's a very cool car.

The RS3 has got a good engine.

It drives much better than most people think it will.

We had a good review of it a while back, but we've had friends that own them.

I don't know a single person that's driven an RS3 and not thought

that drives really well, but he cannot wait to get rid of it.

To get back into another car with a manual.

He's asking if we think this is an accurate assessment.

Do we think the soul of a car exists within a manual?

And if not, what separates a car with soul from one without?

You brought this up a lot on our recent discussions, actually, in driving

manual transmissions, certainly with the prelude discussion.

We were talking about it all through the shoot over lunch.

We were discussing and really trying to decide, Todd, you've brought up the fact

before I forget which piece it was that manual transmissions were not

necessarily connected to the driving experience.

They were certainly a part of it.

And I want to pull on that string just a little bit.

But Luke, you have also given me an excuse to revisit my discussion

about supercars. Oh, OK.

So what you're telling us, Luke, is that every supercar, every hypercar

without a manual transmission.

So essentially everything above my Amira. Right.

Every thing my Amira is a hundred thousand dollar car, which I cannot believe

I have that car, but it has a hundred.

It's a hundred thousand dollar car.

It is a manual transmission mid-engine car.

The reason I'm putting this stake in the ground is because between that car

and Gordon Murray's T 33, there's not another, to my knowledge, manual.

Now, nine elevens accepted.

But like things you think of as supercars, mid-engine craziness.

There's not anything else for the manual in that group.

Nothing in there. So you're telling us that none of those cars have soul.

Maybe they have excitement.

Maybe character might be a little strong, but soul is it's devoid of soul. No soul.

Whatever you want to call the term, soul, engagement, excitement, the fizz.

I know there's a thousand words for this, but but but Luke's suggesting is

he wouldn't like owning any of those cars.

That's what he's suggesting.

He hasn't said it, but he's suggesting it.

You've brought up the list.

I have a slight.

Well, slight, a comparison.

OK, got this comparison that I want to present to you, Luke.

I want to present to all of you watching, listening.

What you're telling us is that mostly the cheaper cars are the ones with soul

and character. OK, you established a hundred grand as a price point.

So mostly the hundred grand is not cheap.

Hundred grand is quite expensive, but it but 50 grand is not cheap.

No, of course, but but comparative to what cars cost now.

It's not hard to get above 50.

I put together a little bit of a list here and you mentioned the McLaren F1,

all the Gordon Murray cars, some Aston's, the Neeloo 27, Pagani Utopia.

You can get with that manual, the DeLara Stradale.

And all EVs, they don't have fizz, no character, no soul, no nothing in there.

Not a single new Ferrari, not a McLaren, not a Lamborghini.

Well, the 2010 was at the Aventador.

I forget what model Aventador you could get with a manual.

But, you know, exceptions is the point.

But the Gallardo, the early Gallardo.

I mean, yes, you James the Stradman.

He bought that orange one. That's right.

And it's only gone up in value.

But that was like 2010 was like the breaking point

when you could not really get a six speed anymore.

Yeah, you still got that thing, right?

Oh, yeah, they'll have that car first car.

Yeah, for sure. Right.

So what about PDK, Luke?

What about PDK?

Just asking. I mean, it's the gold standard

for dual clutch transmissions.

Not that you chose poorly in the RS3 because it's also good.

But what about that PDK and they continue to get better?

They continue to be refined and continually get better.

And PDK is quite compelling.

But what I want to bring up to you, Luke, is that a heavier Cadillac V Blackwing

with a manual transmission has more soul than a McLaren 750S.

The price difference is vast.

Sure. A fully loaded 750S is

450, close to half a million, like fully specced, brand new 750S.

It's an expensive car for a fifth of the price.

Well, we'll call it a third of the price.

You can get one of these 120 brand new, something like that.

Used, ish. Yeah.

So heavy, but great engine, but manual sedan.

True. Yeah.

Manual transmission, no manual transmission.

One more time for the cheap seats.

Manual, no manual.

Blackwing, McLaren. No manual.

One more time. This is so much fun.

Blackwing, McLaren.

So therefore, I agree with you.

I think manual is part of the equation, even though we both love manual transmissions

and just the engagement and it just gives the car so much purpose.

And you have so much purpose in life suddenly and the clouds part

and the sun shines down and you have purpose in life.

Materials are important, Luke.

Because what those do is change the way the car lets the road into the car.

We currently have a Lexus RX 450 plus hybrid.

And I find myself looking around

so often that the car bings at me because of the little eyesight sensor

that tells me you're not putting your eyes on the road.

No eyes detected on the road.

It's like bonging at me.

But I'm so bored driving the car because it's so insulating and smooth.

And I am just looking around.

I'm like, I've never noticed that before.

Sure. Yeah.

It doesn't let any of the road through.

So materials and the way the car breaks

and the chassis itself that is letting the road feel that is

the construction of the car, the weight balance,

of course, low weight. Sure. Yeah.

CT5, Veeve Blackwing, McLaren 750S.

Manual. No manual.

I would argue that all of those materials, lightweight,

all of those add up to something that is more engaging

because I think personally, the McLaren 750S,

we haven't driven one quite yet.

We hope to.

So we are McLaren fans, yes.

Big fans McLaren, the Artura was revelatory.

It was very good.

And, Luke, I forgot that it wasn't manual.

I forgot as I was driving.

It was so engaging and fun and interesting and sensory experience

and seating position, all those things I forgot.

And having a manual would have been like, oh, yeah, I get to do this.

And let's add this.

But it wasn't having the missing manual in a car at this level or higher.

I mean, more expensive, not higher performance.

Sure, I get your point. Yeah, yeah.

It wasn't like something's missing here.

Like this is good, but what is it?

Oh, yeah, manual is missing.

And that's what would push us over the edge

because that is the purpose of the price of fun film that we explored.

And we hope to do price of fun too in 2026.

So a bit of a teaser there.

We're putting a new slate of cars together.

But I'm I'm thinking that it's all the elements of a car

that add up to the soul because no EVs, none of them have soul.

Well, the I5N is pretty fun.

Maybe it doesn't have soul, but it was pretty engaging.

And I was pretty entertained. Sure.

And that's a reason to own it right there.

So can you have a fun to drive car that doesn't have soul?

I think it's I don't think so.

I think it's all these materials, the construction, the headspace.

But I think most of all, it's the bespoke chassis.

Like we've talked about. That's a good point.

It's a good point.

9-11 Cayman, Elise, Emira, all the Evorra's.

Sure. 750S, all the ones that are just that car.

That is what I think Miata 86. That is the soul.

It's just one.

It's designed to do the one thing. Interesting.

That's good. That's my contention.

By the way, here this is with the manual transmission, the black wing.

I have you would you have a smaller list that I thought you would.

But I'm going to have some fun with this as well.

OK, so so Luke, I can't say I don't see how you got there

because looking at your list of cars and the RS3 bringing you to that reality.

I see how you got there.

We have another friend that owned an RS3 for a while and he sold it for a GTI.

Yeah, OK, he sold it for a GTI, but it didn't sell it for a manual GTI.

He just got a GTI.

The RS3 he discovered on his commute was too much car.

And because it was too much car, he never felt like he was enjoying it enough.

He brought the envelope of performance down to a GTI.

It's look, there's all kinds of shared bits going on.

There's shared chassis components.

There's there's shared stuff in those two things.

I am pleased to be wrong.

Those of you that think I said this, I did not say this.

I'm not saying a GTI is equivalent to an RS3. I didn't.

But they do share stuff.

Somebody's writing right now.

Somebody's writing just exactly.

But but they do share stuff.

But the point of making is he got he got a car that is simpler, cheaper

with a with a lower performance envelope, but he's higher

in what the car can do in his average daily life.

So he enjoys it more.

Things slowed down. Isn't that weird?

You know, one of the issues that that we're having in general,

we talk about a lot of these cars and frankly, I've talked about it

with a lot of Porsche product.

Their capability is so high that it's hard for them to be fun

below like 80 miles an hour, a lot of times.

There are exceptions because you haven't started challenging the car yet.

But my argument for you, Luke, is going to be and the manual is a part of it.

But I don't think the manual is where the soul lives.

And I'm going to give you some exact examples.

But I want to I want to go into what I think the headline is for me here.

What makes me connect to a car?

Call it soul, call it fizz, call it engagement, everyone comes down to car

having two things that it does.

It communicates what it's doing like crazy.

Plenty of very capable cars communicate not at all.

And I'll come back to that.

And it also needs me.

It needs me to drive it.

The Nissan GTR effect.

I'm coming there.

OK, OK, exactly to the GTR because the GTR is exactly a reference point here,

the lease on one side and the GTR on the other. OK, OK.

And I am not saying, look, these are cars that speak to me.

OK, but if a car doesn't communicate or it doesn't need me to operate its best,

I think we drift away.

Two interesting things that came out of the engineering discussions

of the GTR when it first got launched.

These are very smart engineers at Nissan that built this car.

These are people way beyond my IQ.

Wasn't it a clean room?

They built in a clean room.

All kinds of crazy stuff.

When that car came out, it was it was like Nissan had a moon program.

Didn't tell anybody and decided to release a car.

And that's the kind of that's the kind of work they were doing.

Guys in clean room suits and like Q tips and what is going on in there?

Like spacesuits.

It's crazy.

A car. The GTR is unbelievable.

When it dropped, it was just everything was different.

But there were two fascinating things that one of the lead engineers said.

One was when asked why the car weighed so much,

his thinking was this.

Well, an F1 car, he was using round numbers, but an F1 car

weighs roughly 2000 pounds and it makes roughly 2000 pounds of downforce.

So I just made a car that weighed 4000 pounds.

To squish it to squish it to the earth.

That was part of it.

But the more interesting point was one of the dynamic people,

one of the engineers said in a comment, and I'm sorry,

I don't remember their names, but he said in a comment where he said,

he wanted to make a car.

He could put his grandmother, a non car person in,

and she could come close to the lap times of a professional driver.

Just embarrassing for the professional driver, but impressive for the car.

But this comes right back to the point that I'm making.

The point that I'm making is, and I've checked out

because at this point, the car is doing it.

Car doesn't need granny.

Car doesn't need you.

Car doesn't need anything.

The car is just the car is getting it done, man.

I'm telling you, the car is making it happen.

I'm going to actually pull up our friend, the GTR here.

This is a world beater car.

This is a car that took down everybody.

You all remember all this is 10 plus years ago now,

but all the Godzilla versus videos, they ruled YouTube.

Yeah. OK.

I've driven this car.

I've been driven in this car much faster than I can drive it.

And it is incredible what it can do.

And I'm always perfectly happy to give the keys back.

Yeah, it doesn't communicate.

It communicates like a chauffeur communicates.

It communicates in that way where it just goes,

I understand what you'd like to do when I've got this.

And my skill or, frankly, lack thereof is irrelevant.

Relevant. It's true.

You can drive well and hit the line and perfectly

heel down, down, heel toe, downshift.

None of that matters.

Doesn't matter at all.

It's a fantastic all wheel drive system.

It thinks really well. It'll help you.

It'll help you be the best driver and get the best lap times you've ever done.

And it'll do that for the next person in line

and the next person in line and the next person in line.

Liably. Very impressive.

Yep. I don't care.

Communication and need are my two features here.

Cars need to communicate with me what they're doing at all times.

Yeah. And look, I'll go to the other extreme.

My lease, this is both the joy and the pain of the lease.

Here's all the information.

Exactly. The joy is talk about a communication situation.

It's like you're on like two or three different speakerphone calls at once

and you just like to start turning them off.

It gets way too much.

But on the other inspector, when you're engaged,

you can't believe all the great info you're getting.

Yeah. But if you want an lease to be fast or to be rewarding,

you need to drive it well.

And I look, I am not saying because I'm a great driver.

I'm not saying that.

I'm just saying when I drive that car, I realize that my

it is giving me everything I need to properly drive the car well,

but then doing none of it for me.

Here's all the info I could possibly give you.

And Miata's do this, GR86's do this.

It's not just an lease thing.

It is a weight thing.

It's a weight thing. Yeah.

As cars get heavier, they get more isolated.

We have no less of what's going on.

I've used this analogy before.

It is the difference between a Cessna and a big old airliner.

Pick your airliner.

OK. 727. Sure.

Let's go with that.

I was like the jets at the back at the tail because it's quieter.

I don't think they do the Honda jet put them on the wings for the same reason.

Yeah, quieter, but under the wing is better for maintenance and sure.

Great. The point I'm making here is if you go into commercial jet liner,

I don't care what weird landing thing has occurred.

You notice there's two kinds of pilots, Paul, I joke about this all the time.

There's the guys that came out of the military driving cargo planes

and they set everything down really.

Just like you'll like you'll like hang out like floating.

You can feel the ground.

You're floating above the ground and like the wheels are like six inches off

for a long time and we're just like barely touched.

And there's the guys that were carrier pilots and you're down.

We're in the air. We're now on the ground.

Thank you very much. We're now early.

Those guys are ready.

Those guys have got places to be.

OK, they're used to the carrier bouncing 10 feet either direction.

They got to put the plane on the deck.

We're down. You're welcome.

I'm paid to do this.

Somebody built somebody built.

You've probably seen it.

I'm off on a tangent, but you've probably seen the really cool videos

where they do like testing of airplane landing gear.

And they just they just try to crush it to break.

I guarantee those pilots have seen that video, too.

I'm not going to crush the gears.

Let's put it on the ground. I worked on that video anyway.

So it doesn't matter what weird experience you've had in the plane like that.

If you get in a small, single engine aircraft of any kind,

then I will use Sastana, but you'd go serious or any any aircraft you want.

Suddenly you realize what flying is.

You're aware of the forces at play.

In the same way, if you drive a bus or a Amazon delivery van or a Miata,

the Miata tells you the car forces at play, but communication is key.

And not all cars communicate well, which I'm going to go somewhere to talk about manual.

OK, OK.

Let's talk about the original BMW M2.

OK, I love it.

I like this car a lot.

I do. I like that.

We've talked about it a lot.

We've driven it a lot.

We've driven it in DCT.

We've driven it in manual.

I'm going to say something controversial.

This car isn't better with the manual.

It's got a rubbery BMW manual that while it is a manual transmission that you can use,

it's not pleasing enough as a manual that I'm not fine with the DCT.

And that's what everybody eviscerated BMW for rubbery manuals.

And I'm like, it's a manual transmission.

You wouldn't take the manual.

So I like this car a lot.

I think the original BMW M2 is now a deal.

We've talked about on this podcast a lot.

I highly recommend you get one.

If you want a manual, great.

If you want the DCT, fine, because I'll be honest with you,

I don't care on this car.

It's not fun because it has a manual.

The manual is fine.

Cool that you offer me a manual.

I don't need it to enjoy the car.

I'll give you another one while I'm here.

The Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio.

I would pick this over the M2 personally.

And it doesn't come with a manual.

And it has, I will admit it, break by wire system.

I don't like.

I don't like the braking system.

I can get used to it.

But everything about this car communicates.

The steering is super quick.

And it feel, it's not that light, but it feels light.

It doesn't feel heavy.

It feels like a light car.

It feels like a willing car.

It's got an interesting engine, which is part of the soul of this car.

But it's got an eight speed auto in it.

That actually shifts pretty well.

It's that ZF.

Oh, it's an automatic like boo.

But the fun of this car is not that it has a manual or does not because it does not.

Would it be more fun with a manual?

Potentially.

Potentially it would.

But it's not the manual that made it fun.

It has communication.

It has quick steering and has an interesting engine.

Those are the things that make this car fun while simultaneously.

I don't have a manual and I don't like the brakes.

But somehow I like this car.

So there's again communication and need because I also feel like the Alfa.

If you put somebody in the Alfa male quadrifoglio and they're not much of a driver,

they can tell something's different.

It's not just every sedan they've ever driven.

They're like, huh, they may not even be able to communicate it,

but they can tell there's something unique and going on.

There's something going on.

You put a driver in there and they go, oh, overdo it.

Okay, let's go for a drive.

Okay, that's very interesting about here.

So Alfa male.

The GTR I've already talked about because this is a car that does not need me or you or anyone.

This is where you put the Optimus robot and do lap times and test.

That's right.

Because, you know, it doesn't need much anyway.

We'll put the robot in it.

And the robot doesn't have fear.

So go even faster.

That's true.

Fearless robots in this thing is like, I didn't know a car could do that.

I have to go here.

The Model 3 performance.

Okay, all right.

This is by any metric you'd like to argue an excellent car.

It's affordable in modern cars.

I mean, compared to the GTR, it's cheap.

It's super fast.

Yeah.

It works.

It's got all the technology you need.

It also has driving capability of its own to what degree we'll argue.

But this is not a car, even though it's incredibly impressive that I would gravitate back toward.

We've driven it.

It's very good.

We've driven on an FSD.

It's still very good.

I'm not engaged by it.

So let me come back to a couple other things.

The reason that we're battling this so much is the industry, the car industry, I think is struggling with two different kinds of customers.

On one level, you have the average person that commutes, that isn't a car person.

And let's be honest, what do they want from a car?

They'd like to do as little as possible, please.

I don't want to be bothered.

I don't want to have to steer it.

You know what?

If it would drive itself, I'd be fine with it.

Give me as little to do as possible, please.

I just need to get to the place with the stuff and the things, okay?

But then you have those of us, those crazy ones of us listening and watching and all that kind of stuff.

And thank you.

You're with us in that you would like to do as much as possible.

Yes.

I don't want a screen.

I don't want help in the steering.

I don't even know that I want ABS because I got to have manual transmission.

And I don't care if the seat is manual and I'll look over my shoulder to back up and give me all the things, all of the information so that I can sort it all out myself.

Yeah.

Well, give me a dumb car so I can.

Yes.

So I can be the smart one.

Yes.

Absolutely.

But again, communication and need.

Yeah.

That's good.

Now let's zoom out and try to be a car manufacturer.

What do you make?

You've got one group that is the small group, but the group that's going to make your brand be spoken about.

And they want no help at all.

Thank you.

Dumb, stupid, old school cars that just, they have to do everything for the car.

Give me all the tools and let me play the song.

On the other end of the spectrum, I want to sit in the car and have it do all of it for me.

Okay.

Yeah.

If you're an automaker, this is a struggle and this is why we keep getting five seat CUVs

with some level of smart cruise control because the majority of buyers don't want to do much.

I know I'm hitting like three topics at once, Luke, but my big thing is automakers are in

a place where they're stuck.

They're trying to make cars that are better and better and better for the marketing team

who needs to brag more, faster, better.

Maybe it got more expensive, but at least then last time it does more.

It has more tech.

It goes faster.

The zero sixties better.

We have an inch more leg room.

It has to always be better and more and bigger and black.

Yep.

Always unless you're the Mazda Miata.

But everything else, it's got to be faster, bigger, better and more.

But it also means it makes them more isolated, heavier, more filled with tech and giving

us less of the info.

But that is the majority of the market.

So you end up in silence with the car doing most of the job for you and that becomes unsatisfying.

So pick your battle, manual, auto, hydraulic steering, electronic steering.

You need a conversation with your car.

Your RS3 is doing too much for you.

It's super capable.

You don't get to tap into it.

You don't get to tell it what to do enough.

It's got you on gears.

It's got you on power.

It's got you ensconced in leather and really nice seat and good sound deadening and a cool engine note.

And you know what?

Play with the NAV.

I know you're in the driver's seat, but just play with the NAV.

Okay.

This is what this is.

You've taken a car that on the, on the wrapping paper says, I'm for you, the enthusiast.

And you got in and discover this car doesn't need me that much.

You're not all the way GTR, but you're headed there.

So you need small light communicative pick.

It's a sliding scale.

I admit it's a sliding scale.

The, as much as I talk about the Elise, it is not for most people.

It's not for most people that love cars.

Oh, truly.

It's true.

I love it.

I love it, but I am aware of the fact that I am the weird one.

Okay.

But there are plenty of cars out there that offer you that communication.

And this is why we talk GR86 and Miata and all these other small cars because light and small and cheap is surprisingly communicative most of the time.

But back to your McLaren, you can have a supercar hypercar that talks to you.

You can do that.

It's possible, but you got to feel like you're necessary and you got to feel like you're having a conversation.

And it comes right back to, I'm sorry.

I anthropomorphize cars all the time, but it comes back to your personal relationship.

You don't want a spouse that's got it.

They've just got it.

They've got it.

They don't need you.

Don't talk to me.

Don't bother me.

I got it.

House is done.

Everything's done.

Movie's done.

Dinner's decided.

I mean, you think you do.

You think you want that person.

But at some point it's just like, can we interact here at all?

And that's why we've all done it.

You end up in that relationship with somebody who's just hard.

You're just difficult.

I love you.

But you're just, I wish I could.

I wish sometimes you wouldn't do the thing that you do.

Okay.

But you get to interact.

You get to communicate with that person.

And if they're willing to communicate, but you got the foibles that aren't perfect,

that creates a relationship.

The other person may as well just be your caretaker.

Ooh.

Let's be honest.

Your car is your caretaker.

And that makes it boring.

We can name a lot of brands that we're not going to.

There's a lot of them out there.

A surprising number from SCV.

I hope that helps, Luke, but that's a good thought.

That's good.

I'm writing down a lot of similar ideas as you've been talking because you hit on better,

faster, more because I keep thinking about what is the next iteration of the 9-11 C

podcast episode 1001.

You'd like to know what we think about what's next.

But I keep thinking, Luke, do we have to go backwards to go forwards?

We as car consumers, enthusiast car consumers, because also have you considered that all

of our enthusiast skills are continually improving as we go to track days, go to hooked on driving

track days and become a better driver as we just enjoy driving more and do more of it.

And you understand more about your tires and you're thinking about the dynamics of the

car and you think about the weather and the road condition and you're looking ahead, your

eyes are up, and you're understanding more about just the enjoyment of driving.

Well, you're becoming a better and better driver, but cars are also making us better drivers.

You and I have sort of started to live through this era and drive all these cars, like the

E92 BMW M3.

Sure.

We got in and we're like, this car just makes you a better driver.

There's cars that are good, but this just suddenly elevates you as a driver.

So is it the car?

Is it the skis?

Is it the parabolic skis?

Is it the mountain bike?

Is it the electric assist?

Did you suddenly become a world-class mountain biker because you've got the tech?

The right gear helps, but there is a place of what we're talking about when the gear starts

to take over so much that now it's not you doing it anymore.

And I do think that's less satisfying.

For sure.

So we have to go.

We have to ask car makers to go backwards, but they're not going to because it has to

be better, faster, more interesting materials.

So they've got enthusiast car manufacturers and the hypercar manufacturers.

What comes after the F80?

I mean, I know it'll be the F90.

I know that, but...

You don't mean in product naming.

You mean, what are they going to do?

What's next after that technological marvel?

What do we do next?

We've teased it before, but I really do wonder when Ferrari is going to start offering a

car with a manual.

I bet you it's coming back and not just for the super rich people that want to have you

make one.

Here's the thing.

Yeah, it won't be like a bespoke when somebody...

Like, I think...

Ferrari will do that.

Sure, we'll hand carve the gears.

I suspect there is a model coming.

They're not going to do it in their whole lineup, but there is a model coming where they're

going to offer a manual.

And that car...

Here's the thing.

It's funny.

We had the whole thing where the reason they went away from manuals is because 2% of the

audience was buying a manual.

Right.

I bet you if they offer a car, one model that is available with a manual, I bet the equation

flops.

I bet 2% of people order it without the manual because they're offering their only model

with a manual.

And enthusiast group think has shifted so much.

So much, yes.

And I bet you if they offer one model, let's just say it's the next version of the...

Whatever it is, the Tributo 458, that progression of cars.

Sure.

The mid-engine V8.

The 296 right now is what it is, and it's a six-cylinder, but the point is that line

of cars, they offer one model.

This is where to get your Ferrari gated manual.

And I will argue, Luke, that is actually the soul of Ferrari.

Every Ferrari I've driven that does not have a gated manual is less interesting than any

Ferrari of any body style I've driven with a gated manual.

Something about gated manual and Ferrari, forget Lamborghini, I've driven those two.

We've driven the gated manual R8.

Yes.

All those gated are fine, but something about the gated Ferrari manual, you feel the soul

of that car there.

And I'm saying...

That I agree with.

Ferrari offers one model that's a manual.

I bet they can't make them fast enough, and I bet everybody's going to pick one.

Which means everybody will learn manual again, and that skill will come back.

Maybe.

Between...

It went to the SF-90, and now it's the Testerosa, the 849 Testerosa that now just got released.

Everybody's doing the release, the embargo lifted, and everybody's loving on the new

Testerosa.

Whatever's after that, that's the new...

Maybe.

I don't know.

Manual only.

It keeps out a certain segment of buyers, but introduces new buyers that want to love

the brand again.

For that reason, manual is the soul of Ferrari.

I totally agree with that.

I 100% think if they offered one model with a manual option, everybody would buy that

model with a manual.

But cars...

Yeah, the electronics, the wiring harnesses, it's making cars heavier and heavier.

The tech, the regulations imposed by regulators and politicians, and governing bodies, sanctioning

bodies, whatever.

For sure.

Making these heavier, so car makers are struggling against that, but we got to go backwards to

make something fresh and new, and it'll be the old like, oh yeah, I remember when you

did that, like 25, 30 years ago, it was the lightweight thing.

And we made that again, and we made it kind of the same weight, and it's under 3,000 pounds,

and we're good.

This is not happening because of all the regulations you just brought up, especially emissions

and that kind of stuff.

But I find it hysterical how often when Toyota releases any product, I don't care what Toyota

product, somebody goes, be better with a 2JZ.

It's gone.

The 2JZ...

It's gone.

Okay, it's gone.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry it's gone.

It's gone.

Okay?

No, it wouldn't.

Even if it would have.

That engine's never coming back.

Regulations have killed it.

That's true.

Moving on, the 3.5-liter engine that I have in my Amira and was in the Camry and Toyota

trucks and that kind of stuff, that engine's dead because of regulation.

We're not going backwards in that kind of stuff.

All these emissions things are staying, but there has to be a way to get lighter and more

involving.

It relates to the screen discussion we had last time.

All these things are connected, and let's hope for it.

But as I said earlier, car makers are struggling because the vast majority of people just want

to be catered to.

And we have to leave the door open for EVs, which are about catering to you as well.

Some sort of future EV that's the longbow, something light-sharing, and it's an EV and

we could all drive it and be like, this is actually pretty awesome.

That's a great point.

Here's the thing.

Somebody's going to make a lightweight EV.

It's already interrupt.

I was just thinking about, we've got to leave that door open too.

Somebody's going to make a lightweight EV that is communicative, and it's going to

be a victory.

You know what would be interesting?

The graphene batteries with a lightweight or solid state or something, more lightweight,

and suddenly we did it.

The Lotus Elise, and people have teased that already.

I know they have, but the Lotus Elise thinking, this is why the original Tesla Roaster was

built off an Elise chassis, but people have taken the Elise since then and put batteries

in it and talked about we're going to do this.

If you did a lease thinking, I'm talking manual steering, electric power.

The Elise isn't great because the engine's great.

It's not.

Neither is the Miata, neither is the GR86.

So make all those electric, but that kind of weight and that kind of weight distribution,

it could work.

It could work.

I'm not against the EV idea.

It's just light communicative involving communication and need.

I'm staying there.

I'm all about Ferrari.

The soul of Ferrari is manual because they sort of tossed it out.

I mean, not sort of, they did.

Here's the crazy thing.

But if it came back, everybody would be like, everybody would start speaking Italian again.

You and I.

It just so happened that it's not like we've driven all the Ferrari product line, not even

close.

We've driven only a smattering of Ferraris, but here's what's interesting.

When you and I started doing this job, by the time we started to get actually into people's

Ferraris, they were no longer making manuals that you couldn't get a new Ferrari anymore

with a manual.

And to a car, every single Ferrari I've driven that was not a manual feels unique.

Ferraris have a feel, but everyone I've driven that was a manual was better, slower, older,

not as refined, and yet still better.

I don't know what they've done or what they used to do because other people have done

gated manuals.

And I've had, look, the R8 gated manual, cool, but if it wasn't gated, I'd still like it

just as much.

If it was just a manual, but not gated, there is something about a Ferrari gated manual that

is just like, well, that's just how the universe was formed right there.

That's how it should be.

I think you're right.

Thanks to the Griot family, we were fortunate a few years ago to drive their black 550 Marinello

V12 with a gated manual.

Every shift was just, oh, now I know what, but, oh, that's, Mondial, 308, Mondial, Mondial,

308, 308.

I mean, we've driven these cars in manual and gone, yeah.

And everybody thinks the Ferrari would faster because the Ferrari badge and the GTR and

Nissan GTR will come along and be like, squish.

No one has ever driven a Mondial or a 308 with a straight face and gone, whoa, this is fast.

It's fun.

But I mean, it gets fast-ish.

Well you feel fast because the RPMs.

You feel fast.

Maybe it's RPMs.

You aren't fast.

Maybe it's RPMs.

That's it.

I don't know.

Well, yeah.

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After February 28th, the following weekend, the 28th and March 1st, the California Reason

kicks off for the year, and that is going to be at Laguna Seca, that's a 92 dB day.

Laguna Seca has a whole thing about noise, a whole thing going on there.

But they've changed all of their microphones, you've heard about this, and their 92 dB days

now, that's the max limit, but most street cars, not the crazy loud ones, but most street

cars are fine now.

Which is really cool.

That's happening.

February 28th, March 1st, and then yes, our two big events for the year, one of them is

Coda Circuit of the Americas, May 30th and 31st, of course, in Austin, Texas.

Circuit of the Americas, I can't wait to be back.

And then Pilgrimage is still happening.

Now here's the thing, Pilgrimage, spaces are going quick.

It's an expensive trip, I'm not going to fight that off, it is an expensive trip because

we have a third track day this year, track days are the expensive part, so it is a little

more expensive than our past years, but it is still, I have to hit it again.

This is no more expensive than other people having five or so seven day drives in the

U.S. with lead follow, track time, and mostly just driving with a nice hotel, is as expensive

as this trip, and you're in Europe with a rented car, helmet, instructor, gas, all your

meals, all inclusive, great hotels, we have a couple of tourist days this year.

As many years as we've done this trip, which is nearly a decade, you realize that we've

not done about 10 of these trips?

Crazy, crazy.

I am so excited about this seven day itinerary this year.

It's going to be awesome.

So you need to come, there's still a little bit of space left, it's available, it doesn't matter.

You could have no track experience or all the track experience, this trip is for you, we

would love to be with you, we cannot wait to go August 2nd through 9th, it's available

right now, you can find that one on everydaydriver.com or hookedondriving.com, but all of the events

hooked on driving for the year near you are available right now.

Wherever bud goes, his harmonica goes with him.

It's a pocket full of soul.

Now he's living with prostate cancer.

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Tell your doctor at once if you faint, have a seizure, quickly worsening headache, decreased

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Ecstandy can cause harm to an unborn baby or miscarriage.

Use birth control during and three months after ecstandy.

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constipation, less appetite, diarrhea, high blood pressure, bleeding, falls, fractures

and headache.

Talk to your doctor and visit ecstandy.com.

Griot's Garage is our official car care partner and one of our very first sponsors for the

show.

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Our first car debate is for Mark who's writing in.

And Mark, tough love coming at you buddy, but he's written in, he said he's been watching

and listening for a while.

Thank you for that.

He really likes the format of the podcast.

He enjoys this new video format that we're doing and I'm really glad that you do.

A lot of you have interacted with it.

Great.

Keep in mind, Everyday Driver TV at Gmail is the way to write us directly.

We read every email that you send.

If you go to EverydayDriver.com and do the contact format, it goes in that same inbox.

Everyday Driver TV at Gmail.

We do look at all of them.

Even if we don't respond to you, I guarantee you we read your email.

Thank you for sending in the topic Tuesdays and the car debates, car conclusions, all

of this stuff.

Of course, you can always respond here in the YouTube comments.

We appreciate it.

And you also can send us questions, which we asked for on social media before this.

So we'll get to those later, but Mark is writing in.

He's in Kentucky approaching retirement.

He and his wife Jane enjoy touring the scenic roads of Kentucky and he just enjoys spirited

driving on those same roads with his wife or alone.

He feels like the Kentucky area where they are is a driver's wonderland.

They enjoy these drives very much in their 2008 987.1 Boxster S. This is the limited edition

orange one.

Here we go.

Mandy who works with the show had one of these a while back.

This was a limited edition 250 or so cars.

This orange Boxster S. It is very unique.

He found it online in 2018.

They flew to Philly.

They did the spinal inspection.

They took two days to drive it home through the Blue Ridge Mountains.

That sounds awesome.

It does sound awesome.

He loves it.

He focuses on drives with friends.

He calls gimmick rallies.

I love that concourse events.

He finds this to be very desirable and as a limited edition, he tries to keep it with

less than 50,000 miles.

His need to be careful with it is always on his mind.

Okay.

All right.

This is his fifth Porsche since college.

He's owned multiple used Porsches.

He says he's a Porsche enthusiast, but he's got a regular guy's salary.

So he finds that buying them used has made it perfect.

He typically buys them about 10 years old.

He has a list of many, many, many, many, many Porsches of all eras.

Type 914, 912, 924 S. So mid-engine, rear-engine.

They're not all 911s.

They're points.

He's owned all kinds of stuff.

It's great.

Transaxle era.

Very interesting.

And then one more fun car of note.

I had to look up to see this because I haven't seen one of these in a while.

The Super Performance S1 Roadster.

It is essentially a variation of the old Lotus 7 or modern day catering done by Super Performance.

These are the folks that you normally think of for Cobras and for GT 40s and that kind

of stuff.

They did make this car.

He owned one of these, looks back on it very fondly because he loved this car as well.

Notice that is a dedicated convertible.

There's no top hanging out anywhere.

This is a dedicated driver's car, but he's not a guy that is chasing lap times.

He's chasing driving fun.

But this Boxster, which they love, he's worried about, for lack of a better word to put it,

its limited editionness.

The fact that it isn't common is a big deal to him.

So I actually think it's kind of a bit of an Achilles heel.

Mark would love and has also considered a solid use catering or something like a Morgan

Super 3.

He also says an Elise might do the trick, but maybe too expensive for the quality and

condition standard that he would require.

Yeah, sure.

Understand.

He watched our review of the van der Hall many years ago and would agree with us not

to go that direction.

So the first question is, what cars is he missing along that unique line of thinking?

The second question is, should he rethink all three cars?

Because his wife has a Subaru Forester that's been great to her.

She really likes it.

He has a Lexus IS that he believed was going to be their normal road trip car, but he's

found that the Lexus IS, while great at doing road trip stuff, they end up gravitating toward

the Forester for more room.

So he doesn't like driving the Forester.

He doesn't like sounds like almost anything about it.

He doesn't like the weight, the high profile, the CVT.

So he'd rather be in his IS, but that's not big enough.

And then we've got this Boxster doesn't get driven enough because it's not quite the

road trip car or a high mile car because I limited edition.

They want to keep the miles low.

Interesting.

Okay.

It's the conundrum.

It is.

You want to keep it special, but Porsche have made to drive the car.

Porsche built it.

Yes.

Drive it.

And it's special edition, but go drive the car.

Well, Mark, yes, I think I can help.

Yes, I think we can help.

Yes, I think there's going to be some tough love involved.

And I'm, I've come up with two different scenarios, a two car and a three car solution.

And all of the solutions start with the headlines that I think it's time to sell

the Boxster.

I hate to say it.

I love Porsches.

I'm glad you have it.

I'm glad you've had all the Porsches as many as, as you've had.

You've definitely experienced that.

And I'm not saying that this is the end of your Porsche ownership in your life,

but I feel like it's preventing you.

This car is preventing you from driving it.

You're not enjoying it quite as much because of that specialness, that

preciousness, that keep the miles low kind of factor, like it's, it's a special

addition.

So to keep it special, I just have to rub it with a diaper and take it in the

garage and coffee, not drive it anywhere, not take a road trip, et cetera.

Yep.

I'm going to start with the two car solution and that is sell all three cars.

Maybe you'll drive the catering enough.

Maybe you get one and down the road.

I have included that in some of my three car solutions.

So yeah, maybe you'll drive it since you're a unique driver and you have had

S one ownership.

That's very different.

That is very different.

Okay.

But I'm concerned it's so raw that you'll only drive it for really special occasions.

It's such a, you got to take the steering wheel off.

You got to, you know, you're strapped in and it's helmet and the whole deal.

Maybe not helmet, but still, you know, you're, it's, it's an occasion.

And every time you look at it, you'll think, ah, it's just a hassle to deal with.

And I'll just take the other car.

So I do think the two car solution is viable.

And so I am starting here downsizing to two cars means that you'll need two of

something that are newer and ready to go at a moment's notice.

Because you said, I don't really want to deal with constant headaches and maintenance.

So I am first proposing for the first two car solution 2026 RAV four.

And I've heard now that Toyota can't build these things fast enough because

of the demand, the popularity, but that does not deter me because I think they

would be great.

Jane, I want to speak about the Forrester as a side note, side conversation,

sidebar.

I'm glad that you like it.

I'm glad that it fits your needs.

I'm glad that you guys use it for as many things as you do.

But this is not a commentary on the drivers because I think there's cars out

there that sort of take the driving fun and the driving mojo away from its owners.

I don't point at the drivers.

If you had a better car, I think you'd be enjoying yourself more.

You'd have more fun, but it just feels like every time I get into Subaru,

the BRZ not withstanding, it just feels like it's built to be slow.

WRX's are fast.

There's plenty of fast cars.

I know that's a sweeping statement that is you can poke a lot of holes in it,

but just the SUVs just feel like they're you're just being dragged down.

This isn't just a fast, enthusiast, spry, interesting.

That's not their market.

Yeah.

WRX is rally.

There's a huge history of fast Subaru's.

I understand.

I mean, the Colin McRae era.

But we've talked before about the modern Subaru is built for the driver

that's scared of driving.

We have talked about that before.

It just feels like it's it's pulling you back.

And and if you as a driver had a better, more interesting fun car to drive,

I think you'd do better and you'd actually enjoy it even more.

So what I think could fit the bill here is the new RAV4 and combine that

alongside an RF because imagine it's still lightweight, it's unique,

but there's also no worries.

Sure.

I'm just going to get in it, beautiful car, interesting to drive.

And I think this could be an excellent two car solution for you guys.

RF now for most days.

And then, Mark, when you use, you know, you need the RAV4, you need it

for whatever utility it's just going to work to.

It's just going to be great.

So the second would be second choice here would be a slightly used CRV.

You could put a RAV4 in here, but we're backing off on the dollars here hybrid

or regular, maybe a Honda pilot and pair that with a GR86 or a BRZTS.

See, this is, I, you could think I'm contradicting myself, but this is the fast

Subaru. This is one of the more interesting.

It's the Subaru that makes no sense in their lineup.

Candidly Toyota joint.

It's a C of all wheel drive.

And then this random thing with rear wheel drive.

Yes.

Third on the two car solution would be a used Cayenne.

Save me some money here.

Luxury, great for road trips, lovely to be in.

Does the utility thing very well?

Just ask this guy.

I can't make notes about the Cayenne.

It just is.

Yes, I agree.

And Mark, the best news here is this is where your Porsche ownership continues.

Good point.

It's just not in the form of the other cars that you've had.

You'll, you can still claim you own a Porsche.

True.

It's just a kind of manifested itself differently.

So I think this could work very well.

And then pair that with either the GR86 BRZ or you want it unique.

This has a three cylinder engine.

Have you heard?

It's a unique, sporty little thing.

You can get it with an auto.

You can get it with a manual.

Jerkarola fun.

It's just going to work.

So that's the two car solution, but we can't have something so crazy as the second

car that you're not going to use it and it's just going to sit.

It has to be usable, reliable, new, fun, interesting.

So Jerkarola all day long could be just a great, fun little thing.

So moving on to my three car solution.

I again, don't love the Forester for long term.

So I think that might need to just start to think about how the Forester leaves and

who might want to buy that from you.

The three car solution allows you to be a bit more bold in the weird car,

unique car line up.

So again, I'm starting with the new RAV4 and pair that with a 2022 JCW Mini Cooper.

I love this thing.

Fun and entertaining, but if you don't want to spend that kind of money, you

could get an R 53.

You could just go get yourself Cooper S 2005.

Quite cheap.

Bob's your uncle love this thing.

You're going to have to put some maintenance into it.

It'll have some miles on it, but these things just run.

It's crazy.

They shouldn't just run, but apparently they do.

Yes.

Very glad about that too.

My son has his license as of this week.

Like he officially is.

I'm so proud he's done his first round of driving.

He took himself to an event this week.

And when he called from the end of the event to say, Hey, I'm coming home.

My wife, who was having, you know, that motherly moment of just my little boys

out there driving by himself, she rose above it.

She said, Hey, while you're out, would you pick up dinner?

He did.

And he made a dinner.

We were still working when he came home.

He let came home.

We heard him park in the garage.

He didn't hit anything, which is great.

And he came in with dinner.

It was awesome.

It was, it was actually a big moment.

It really was very cool.

He is driving done.

Okay.

So that's the second car pairing that again.

This is where the catering could go.

It's a fun unique.

I mean, you're wanting a catering.

So now's the time to experience catering ownership.

They don't get easier to get in and out of.

I don't care how old you are or nimble, they're difficult.

They're difficult.

It's going to tie to your leg.

The steering wheel has to come off.

You're going to have to see a chiropractor on a regular basis.

And he's going to, what have you been doing?

Like, well, about a catering like, Oh, I see.

We're going to need to schedule this every week.

Yes.

And then finally, another cayenne here could fit the bill along with a mini

Cooper, any of the aforementioned cars.

I even thought of Veloster in all the hatches, something that is, it works.

It's fun.

It's entertaining.

And then out here is that catering reliability, but you're going to have to

adjust the sliders for money because what the, the car Jane starts with, I

think it could be the grab for again, Honda CRV cayenne.

That's the starting place.

And then you'll have these leftover sliders to adjust.

Okay.

Spend more in the catering, less on the third fund car, maybe just go in two

fun cars and then I can spend a little bit more.

But I think all of these are unique choices, but the best part is you get to

go drive a whole bunch of fun, cool cars.

Absolutely.

This is really good.

So Mark, um, we could do this as a two or three car thing.

I'm going to give kind of some general thoughts for you and your wife, Jane, and

then I'm going to dive in for you because I think, I think this could be, and

you've already done a really good job, Paul, two cars, three cars.

There's a million ways to slice this.

The first thing I think is two of your three cars have got to be sold.

The boxer, because you aren't wanting to drive it.

You love it, but you aren't wanting to drive it.

So the boxers got to go.

I hate to say that, but it's furniture.

Yes, it just, you look at it.

Well, and, and you're excited that you own this limited edition Porsche, but

the fact is limited edition makes you not want to drive it.

I mean, you acknowledge this in your email.

So the boxers got to go.

Cool car, but got to go.

And the IS doesn't have a purpose.

You bought it thinking it was going to be your fun road trip car, but you only

road trip in your wife's forester.

So the IS kind of doesn't have a reason to be.

So, cause ultimately what you're doing here is you've also said you want a

downside, probably as you guys get into retirement age, you don't

need three cars, you're going to go to two.

You're going to have whatever your wife drives that you guys use for road

trips, and then you want to have a genuine fun car.

So if we're headed that way anyway, the IS already is kind of like, I'm not

sure if it's purpose, you don't want to drive the boxer.

You don't like driving the forester.

So we, we, we do have to solve all three, but I, I'm not going to, I'm not

going to try to solve all three right now.

What I'm going to say to you is sell the boxer.

I'm going to try to replace that one to give you a fun car.

Sell the IS because it doesn't have a role.

And then in the year or two to come, because you and your wife were opposite

ends on this last car, I want you guys to just do all the drive homework.

Paul's talking about, and all the ones you can think of, because what you're

coming from, Mark, is you're wanting, I hate to say it, but it's true.

You're wanting a performance track capable SUV.

That's those, those cars we keep talking about, who is this for?

It's for Mark.

You want a performance SUV because you want SUV space.

You've said that the SUV space is what you want, but your wife likes her

forester, which is not that.

Yeah.

So you guys need to drive things like the X three and the McCann and the

Cayenne and the, and the, the, some of the AMGs from Mercedes and the new

RAV four GR sport.

I, here's the thing, I don't know where you land, but I think the two of you

need to dedicate yourselves together to do drive homework so she can get the

thing she needs that she likes from the forester and you can get the driving

interest you need and you can meet an SUV.

And I'm not even going to begin to guess where you guys are going to land, but

it's going to take a lot of driving homework.

So let's try to get you something quirky, something fun.

And I have to say you've owned a super performance.

Really?

Yeah, no, no one that's owned this.

I haven't either.

I've known people that have owned catering and Lotus sevens and that kind of

stuff, but I've never actually known anyone that I've seen them, but I've

never known anyone that drove one of these.

This is a pretty hardcore car, no top available at all.

Again, it's a variation on the Lotus seven and it's not a catering, which is

weird.

You just don't see these.

So I think this is interesting that you own one of these, which takes me

directly to the catering, but I've got a catering on screen right now.

And I, I am, I have a soft spot for these cars because let's be honest, the

only offshoot of the cul-de-sac of ownership that is my lease is like the

driveway into a catering.

It's not, it's not a whole other road.

It's just a little driveway off the end of the cul-de-sac.

It's like the cul-de-sac with the driveway at the back.

There's a catering sitting in that skinny.

Those tires are tiny, skinny tires.

And here's the thing.

It's funny, read, we don't get them really in the U S the, the European

journalists, the UK journalists get all of them.

And what I find hysterical is most of the time they make these in all kinds of

horsepower variants.

Most of the time they seem to give them out to journalists two ways.

They give them the most powerful one and the least powerful one.

And those journalists often drive them back to back.

And in almost every case, you can look them up online and almost every

case, the journalist will like the one with the lower power.

Skinny tires, lower power, low power, skinny tires, throw it around.

They don't worry about it.

Mark, what you need is a car you're not going to worry about.

But the thing I'm concerned about with the catering is this is no top.

This is hardcore.

It's hard to get in.

Paul's been talking about it already.

These are super fun, but they, they make your Boxster look like a luxury car.

Okay.

I mean, great opportunity to get a custom helmet with graphics.

They make my Elise look like a usable daily, which is crazy.

True.

Okay.

So you're like, but what this did for me is it put me into a thinking

of the kind of car this is.

This is a front engine, long nose, sit at the back of the cabin, small, narrow car.

You don't want to spend a lot of money.

You want a car that can be convertible.

I think I have your answer.

You need a BMW Z three.

I like these so much.

These are super fun.

They are cheap at this point.

I'm actually showing an M car, but you don't even need the M car.

The thing about the Z three is this is like a usable version of catering.

I'm thinking they are narrow.

Yeah, they are long nosed.

You sit near the back of the car.

They don't weigh very much.

They aren't worth anything.

Mark, they made so many of these and they're worth so little that you should be

able to buy this car and drive it to dust.

There is no reason to not take the Z three.

Yes.

People are going to go, Hey, man, cool car.

And you're going to know it's worth so little that if it gets balled up, I hope

it doesn't.

But if it gets balled up, okay.

Do you think he should buy a junkier one of these?

So he worries about it less and just goes and drive like the don't seat bolster

is torn up and here's the thing.

I don't want you to buy the nicest one you can find.

I want you to research them and buy one middle of the road.

Like I don't want you to buy one junkie.

It's torn up.

I mean, look, we had one that cost less than $5,000 when we did our

$8,000 car piece.

It was bought in Vegas.

We bought it remotely in Vegas.

We flew chance down one morning and he drove it back that evening.

I tell you the passenger side window has completely let go.

It's just dropped in the door and it does it.

It's like off its tracks.

It's just the glass is like rattling around and your friend Dane bought it from

us after that shoot and he's turned it into his only car and he loves the thing.

The thing is I don't want you to buy the worst one out there.

Cheap wise.

I also don't want you to buy the pristine museum one because you're not going

to drive it, but find what the sweet spot is in the middle.

I'm using your word and and buy something right in the middle of the market.

Maintain it with what it needs and then just drive it.

Just drive it all the time.

Don't stop driving it.

Think of reasons why you need to take something other than the Z three.

Like, like what is the like, honey, Jane, give me the really good reason why we

can't take the Z three.

That's the headspace I want you to have.

But these are, I hate to say it this way.

These are almost disposable.

They made a lot.

They're out there.

They're cheap, but it has, I was thinking about great ideas.

Disposable Z three is everyone amazing ball ball up when done.

Anyway, think about this though.

This does feel to me like the enclosed luxury catering.

Yeah.

The more I thought about it, the more I thought that's kind of what this is.

And I think it gets you what you liked about that because the thing is you're

not a guy that's looking for the extreme edges of the car you own.

You want to put the top down, drive a nice road at a reasonable speed and take

it to a cars and coffee later.

Z three.

Yeah.

There's no reason to be precious by yourself.

One of these, and then you and your wife need to take Paul's recommendations

and more and do drive homework to eventually find the SUV you can agree on.

I think that's the harder part of this, but it's going to take driving.

It's going to take a lot of driving homework.

I have confidence.

Yeah.

Thank you for writing, Mark.

Really appreciate it.

Every day driver TV at gmail.com topic Tuesday's car conclusions and car debates.

Jared writes to us with the second car debate is coming to help with an

intriguing car scenario he finds himself in.

He's created an interesting garage with fun cars, but it's lacking compared to

what he needs it to do.

He gives us most of his car ownership history, including his first driver as a

teenager was an 89 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme.

Oh, that era.

When was the last time you said the word Oldsmobile?

Yep.

In a while.

Probably at a Radwood event because otherwise you just don't see them.

All the world's supply of burgundy surfaces and a matching exterior.

Many lessons learned of that car.

Oh, no.

Digital gauge cluster that worked 10% of the time.

Well, okay.

All right.

After that was a 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee followed by 98 Camaro five speed.

After some years, he joined the military driving his parents 2005

Pontiac Grand Am.

He waited to buy his next car and got a Sportster 883 motorcycle instead

instead of that.

Yeah.

Gonna buy a car.

Now I'm just gonna buy a bike.

Done.

The bike served its time.

He finally made up his mind on a car in 2015, went to a dealer and placed

in order for a 2016 Ford Focus RS in nitro blue.

Awesome.

Love it.

This car made it through Jared and his wife's first child owned for eight

years, but became taxing with two kids at home now.

And that's when the car madness began.

Shortly after selling a Focus, he leased an Ioniq five in Colorado, where Jared's

that they've got exceptional incentives.

They have huge ones.

Yes.

Nice family hauler, decent EV acceleration, but then using the EV as a daily, Jared's

wife decided she wanted a different car.

So they leased another cheap EV Fiat 500.

Colorado was almost giving those away for a time.

I feel like anybody that ever thought about an EV got a 500 for like just sign

here and we'll give you one for a little while, but they actually didn't have

that car for too long because after a couple of months, they realized the

difficulty there was the low range, but you probably got it for just like I

said, the change in your pockets, maybe even the lint in your pockets.

They were giving those cars away in Colorado.

Please can we give you crazy?

It's like, how much money can we give you to take once?

Anyway, they gave that back for any of those cars were gone.

Jared went out and bought a 2019 BMW M850 I convertible.

Huh.

Nice sounding V8 that surprised him, but the love affair died quickly.

By the way, sidebar.

I want you to notice the through line here.

Jared buys cars and gets tired of them very quickly.

That's the, it's ongoing here because he sold it a couple of months later and

then sold the Fiat 500 E and then he got an Audi RS5 Sportback, which lasted

only six months.

It was fun, fast space for the kids capable, but it felt sterile.

Back to our conversation earlier, but yes.

He began thinking about another car.

Unsure we might be able to do something more exciting, maybe faster, maybe

something slower manual, and then he found posters from when, when he was a

child, the collective experience of a youthful car poster, one of them was a

Lotus Elise, sadly not possible, but then kids don't go in that well.

Not at all.

Well, I mean, you've actually seen, you've done really single child.

Well, yeah, he has two kids.

He's trying to figure out two things.

You've done well though with the, thank you.

And I've worked hard.

Car seat.

We had to buy a very specific car seat.

They've heard the story here already, but here's the thing.

If, if two kids don't work in your focus RS, yeah, the Elise is out.

Moving on.

The other car from his childhood.

Well, growing up years, the formative car years was a 996 Porsche 911.

So the lease on the Ioniq ended.

The Audi was sold.

Car churn turnover.

It's happening.

Keeps happening.

Yep.

So in the current garage, we've got a 2004 Porsche 911 Carrera Forest Cabrio

six speed manual, a 2007 Hummer H3 luxury that is his wife's car and his

project, which is a 1991 Jaguar XJS V12 classic collection convertible.

Restoring the Jaguar, Jared writes, has been a treat.

And somehow at the same time, he wouldn't wish it on his worst enemies.

I have to admit when I first read this, I reread the first few words of the sentence

because I couldn't believe the first few words were restoring the Jaguar has been a treat.

I was like, it's been a what?

It's a treat.

I thought I was like, is that a misspelling?

Is it supposed to be a threat?

I don't know, but, but he, but he does say a treat.

And then at the same time, something he wouldn't wish on his worst enemy.

He said, there's joy in getting things to work only for the next week.

A whole new series of problems arise.

And mostly, yes, it's the electrics.

I don't know the last time I've heard anybody restoring a Jag.

Like a Jaguar from the nineties.

Is that Jags Malay's era?

I mean, they was a V12.

They, here's the thing.

The one of those cars they made for ever, they made it for ever.

Yeah.

And I have to admit, even though, yes, because of the electronic, you know, yeah,

even though, yes, there's a lot of convertibles out there.

I always picture that car as the hard top, which was really cool with the

buttresses and all that.

Yeah.

But the XJS V12 convertible, he said, the thing is he really likes it, but it is

a two-seater, so he's back to kid problems.

He has two kids.

He can't take it in that.

He does take them in the 9-11.

They're small enough right now at four and six years old that they can

sit in the back of the 9-11 and they can watch him shift and they can

enjoy what they referred to as dad's quote, fast car.

And they really enjoy being in the back.

He loves this Jag.

I love the picture you've got up right now.

He loves this Jaguar, this great convertible.

There it is.

Yeah, for sure.

But again, two-seater, it's not working with the kids.

So he's thinking it's probably time to sell the Jag, but the problem also is that

in spite of the fact that the 9-11 works with the kids, it's not practical

enough, he's realizing, because his wife has taken a role that will cause her to

be gone for three to four months at a time doing work in national parks.

So she will take the Hummer, which they've used as the family car.

So that car goes and that puts him in a scenario where he's going to be driving

up to 600 miles every two to three months to see her and taking both kids.

So he needs a road trip car.

So that's not the 9-11 and the Jag doesn't work.

So he needs fun, but he needs something that he can take on big road trips to

see mom, to see his wife, to take the kids with him.

They've got to have kid space, luggage space, road trip capability, but he would

like manual light weight and a good power to weight.

These kind of are in contrast with each other.

He's willing to accept a nice auto or DCT.

He thought he'd take the 9-9-6 to track this summer.

But what he's realizing is tracking is not really proving possible.

So does he, A, sell the Jag, get a cheap hatchback, liftback vehicle that's fun,

engaging, has space for the kids and luggage and keep the Porsche or sell the

Jag and the Porsche and get a more expensive vehicle that's capable of

hauling all the family duties, the kids, the luggage, the everything, but it's

still very fun for him.

The budget for option A is the sale price of the Jag plus cash, $20,000, $20,000.

20-ish, yeah.

The budget for option B is the sale price of the Jag plus the Porsche and more

cash up to $65,000.

Can we help?

Cars that Jared has considered that seem too small, GR Corolla Honda Fit, the

Marks 7.5 GTI, 7.5.

That's the...

It's right before they kill it with the haptic disaster UI and then they fix it

eight and a half, but you got to mix, right, skip one there, yeah.

The Porsche needs to go, I don't have a photo of the Porsche because you all

know what an 0-4, 9-9-6, 9-11 Cabriolet looks like, right?

But isn't it refreshing to see the Jag again?

It's just so like, wow, that it's just so elegant and, you know, if it runs, I

mean, I love that you restore this thing, but I do agree.

I am taking option B, Jared.

I'm going for sell the Jag, sell the Porsche, add cash, spending $65,000.

And so what I've broken that down into is a sporty sedan under $40,000 and spend

the rest on something else.

So a two car solution here.

My sporty sedan for you is a Hyundai Elantra N or Honda Civic Si.

Ooh, those are good.

I think this would be great to put the miles on.

I agree with that.

Si is only manual.

So if you go for, say, the DCT in the Elantra N, that's fine.

Still fun to drive, but throw all the miles on this, on these two cars and just,

you know, kind of treat them as the fun economy, the fun commuter kind of thing.

And then when the kids want to go with you because they love seeing you shift,

you do need something that takes both kids.

And right now, while they're small, I mean, the kids will grow, of course.

Certainly will, yes.

But right now the age is where they're at.

And I suggest this two car solution because of churn, because of Jared's constant.

I, you know, he's, we know he's going to want to try this and then move on to

something next, but that's because his needs will change and desires will change

and he wants to experience something else.

So I'm suggesting this is an interim two car solution.

Spend the 65, 40 grand for the Elantra N.

I mean, not even 40, 40 less, 40 new.

So get a used Elantra N and then one of these BRZTS, GR86.

And that is the manual, the fun car that, Hey, do you want to see dad do the

shifting thing?

Like let's go get ice cream.

Let's go have a fun run in, in the BRZ or the GR86.

And that is my money spending for you.

Even though it's been cool that you've had the Jag, you've had the Porsche, and

that doesn't mean you can't have either weird restoration that you wouldn't

wish on your worst enemy and some cool Porsche get in your life.

You can have both, but this is what I'm suggesting for you.

And, uh, I think this will work for the time in your life.

Cause again, I think this is not a permanent solution.

You're right.

Nothing we suggest is going to be a permanent solution.

Fair.

It's not going to be like, well, we solved it.

You know, this is true.

It's going to move.

Kids will grow.

His taste will change.

He's going to eyeball other crazy being powered BMWs and something else will change.

I love it.

So I got, I've got a few for you as well, Jared, but let me, let me just talk

about this situation you're in for a second.

First off, the fact that you're restoring a Jag Jag makes me realize that you

have a tolerance for working on stuff.

It's going to come back around.

Are you going to take advantage of that?

I just, just a little bit, just a little bit.

But what I'm going to say is the Jag needs to go.

Okay.

That gives you around 20 grand.

I'll be honest.

When I searched auto tempest.com slash every day, I went up to 25.

I put a $25,000 max and all of these just figured, let's see what's out there.

And I found a lot of good options that I'm about to suggest.

I really like your Elantra and your Civic SI, by the way, Paul, those are very,

very good because it plays into the manual lightweight and, and surprising

backseat space, really good trunk space.

I really do love those.

What I find curious in your email, Jared, as you said that the GR Corolla,

the Honda Fit and the Mark 7.5 GTI are too small.

Now the Corolla, I'll give you the Corolla has small back seats, but the Honda

Fit is a victory of space.

It's true.

The fit fits.

And the Mark 7.5 GTI, I think should be seriously in your consideration

list here and, or maybe a golf R, really good backseat space, decent hatch.

So I, I think all of those work, but I just, what I decided is, okay, if

those really are too small for this road trip you want to take, then I got to

get you into something bigger.

So for now we're leaving the Porsche.

I'm just going to leave the Porsche because back to your churn comment, Paul,

I think the Porsche is going to cycle out in the next year or two anyway.

Both because Jared changes cars a lot and also because the kids are going to

outgrow it.

Yeah.

The kids are going to get too big to ride in the backseat and then you're

going to look at the Porsche and go, I guess that needs to go now.

So for now, the nine 11 stays, I'm just going to solve the 600 mile road

trip equation.

So this is budget for option A.

Yes.

So I went up to 25 grand, 25, okay.

I gave myself 25 grand at the most, but I'm going to try to solve this by doing

sedans and I'm going to start right here with the Genesis G 70.

There are tons of these out there for 25 grand or less.

And it's not just the two liter.

I thought it was going to be nice photo.

Great looking car.

Yeah, it is.

I thought it was just going to be the two liter four cylinder and I prefer the two

five, but I found 3.3 liter turbos at 25 grand.

So it's a great looking car.

Now I will admit my problem with this car is that the back seats are kind of

small, but your kids are currently smaller.

Your kids are currently small enough to get in the back of a nine 11.

Yeah.

So I don't think you're going to have a problem here.

These are fantastic to drive.

I'm thinking about you sawing miles, 600 miles, sawing miles with kids in the back.

They need space in the back, you need trunk space.

It needs to be a little bit luxurious.

So Genesis G 70 is my favorite of current things you can buy, but I'm going to go

into used options now because I have two.

First is the Kia Stinger.

Why the Stinger?

Because it's the bigger Genesis G 70.

It's the same chassis.

This is where you get the hatch you were asking about and the bigger back seat.

Sweet car.

These all day long for 25 grand.

Look at that.

You can find a GT grinding on its tires.

He's grinding the tires.

So the Kia Stinger.

But then I had a thought.

You're getting rid of this old Jag, which you clearly love.

Okay.

You like the working on it.

You like it's got a V12 in it.

You like having an interesting engine.

Like an interesting engine and it's a luxury car.

It's a used luxury car.

Yeah.

Okay.

You want a road trip.

You know what you can get for 25 grand?

The E 94 door M three with the V eight.

And what's the reason people don't buy these?

Well, what if I have to do maintenance?

Okay.

Jared's been maintaining a Jag.

He's been maintaining a Jag.

This is German engineering point.

I mean, there'll be stuff to do on this.

Yes, but this is a phenomenal car and this car shines on a road trip.

Manual or DCT in this, you will love this car.

If you get a back road or a chance for you as just dad to drive hard or to

drive the kids hard or to pick up your wife at her national park job and

drive everybody hard.

These are stuff.

This is a phenomenal car.

This, this naturally aspirated high revving V eight from BMW was a fantastic

engine.

You got to wind it out, but that could be the fine.

Just love the four door of this.

I just love it so much BMW M three is my choice for you because I

think what you like about the Jag is dialed back to be a little less annoying.

Like I can, I can surmount this right.

It's going to make the BMW look like a Honda.

It is for sure.

There'll be stuff, but compared to the Jag, are you kidding?

And then you can road trip this blast across the U S kids happy in the back.

Great interior that actually is aged pretty well.

See if you can get one without the second hump.

There's a second hump for the nav system.

But anyway, either way, this is a great car.

Good, good backseat, good trunk.

I want you in the E 90 V eight four door BMW M three, and then you really

can sell the Jag is really good.

Jared, thank you so much for writing.

We really wish you all the success in your car search.

But again, involve the kids.

Yes, for sure.

In the search.

It's very good.

Yep.

Mainly because it will help them start to let go of the Jag and the Porsche.

Depending on what you do, it'll let them, you know, OK, these cars are going to go

away and they're involved and then you go test driving together.

And then true, all doing this together.

It's a family affair.

And then they're getting excited about the new one.

And so then they look back at the old, the old two cars and be like, all right,

I can let those go.

It's not like, yoink, suddenly this went away and here's this new thing

that you're expected to like.

No, it's going to be more fun.

And they're not convinced because they haven't been part of the process.

So definitely involve them.

I learned that the hard way.

Don't suddenly surprise your child with a car that they kind of like, or maybe

that you don't even think they pay attention to now leaves the driveway.

They're like, wait a minute, it's part of their world.

You got to involve them in the fact that it's going.

Anyway, everyday driver TV at gmail.com.

We're kicking off questions with I'm just going to call this out.

Kyle, you have listed a great topic Tuesday that I think we should come back to.

OK, so this is not a question and answer now.

I'm just putting it out there as a topic Tuesday.

We will return to you would like us to discuss our favorite three revived name

plates in the modern era, name plates that were brought back.

What are our favorite three?

And while we're at it, that's good, that's good.

Our worst three name plates that have been brought back that we hate that they

were brought back in their current form.

And then one of you added on a lot of mentioned right here, but one of you

added on after we do that, the opposite one of us should play track daily crush.

So you have your list.

I have my list and then we swap lists for track daily crush.

This is really cool.

That could be really fun.

So Kyle, we'll return to that.

I love that.

Thank you for the follow up questions as well.

That's a really fun one.

There are a few questions related here to our last video.

That was the prelude video.

If you haven't seen it, we appreciate you watching for those of you that did.

We welcome the comments, many, many, many thoughts.

I don't know the next time we're going to get a car in a video that people

have so many thoughts about.

But anyway, Dammit Patton, by the way, congratulations on fatherhood.

Dammit Patton writing in saying he loved the video quality of this last video.

Did we get new cameras?

No, we did get a new drone, which is actually a different drone.

I won't get too far into it, but the different drone that actually colors

better when I do color correction.

I am, uh, I probably spend too much time on color correction, but I do color

correct all of our pieces.

And I will say that I am constantly learning to color correct.

And I have changed some things in the last six months.

I think my color correction is getting better, which helps everything we do

look more cinematic.

So there wasn't a change in cameras.

There was just a slight change in post production approach.

And I love that you and others have noted that because my whole thing.

And I admit I'm doing it for a limited audience that's getting smaller,

but my whole thing is I want to look like a movie.

I want you to sit down in front of your big screen and put your other

screen away and watch the thing we did.

That's why I like doing the road trip film so much.

So color correction is a big part of it.

And that's what you're seeing on Facebook, switching subjects from cars

to a question from Jared, who is Ted theologon asking our thoughts on

Sundance, vacating Park City after this year.

I admit I didn't really follow Sundance too much this year.

And every year I've avoided Main Street and I've avoided just even kind

of going over there because menu prices go way up and the card, the

traffic goes away up in the madness.

But it was interesting just to read local news articles about how people

were, were mourning this particular Sundance as sort of the last of the good

ones, even though it's moving to Boulder, Colorado in 2027, they were

mourning this year's because Robert Redford passed just last year.

So not even a year.

Uh, yeah.

Just a couple of months ago.

And so they were sort of mourning.

This is the last of the era, last of the good Sundances, but that doesn't mean

it doesn't have a great future in any new location.

But yeah, I was reminded about traffic because I was going to the gym and I was

like, why is all this Tra right Sundance?

Yes.

I forgot.

And it was just suddenly like, Oh yeah.

And I cannot comment on the quality of the films or what was here.

I don't know.

You, you know, far more than I do on, uh, on what was playing and what was

it missed.

But I read, you know, celebrities in town and for, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, even Prince Harry was over at the high school.

I read it was just like, he showed up and was like, okay, I don't care.

I think this is a loss for the town.

I really do.

Now if you talk to locals here and I've been here a long time, we've

been here since 2010.

If you talk to locals here, they, they have their camp.

Okay.

Because there, there are a ton of locals who all they see is rude out of

towners and traffic.

And why is this here?

And they, they are so thrilled it's going away because it is, here's the thing

from a traffic perspective, it is a focal point problem because everybody's

here for one week.

And beyond that, if you really want to come to Sundance, you come in the Friday,

it starts and you leave Monday.

So the vast majority of people come in for weekend one.

That's right.

Thursday to Tuesday of weekend one is, it is, it's madness.

If you live anywhere close to Main Street, it's hard to get around.

Everywhere is busy.

That is, that is a downside, but quite in that camp like, but it's an economic

driver.

Yeah, 70 to a hundred million dollars comes into this area every year from Sundance.

That is leaving.

Okay.

Park City is positioning itself.

And this has happened in my time of living here.

Park City is positioning itself to be a super high-end ski destination only that

they are reforming the town just to have that focus.

And that's interesting.

And it obviously spreads out, hopefully the economic buy-in for a larger season.

But still, that also means Christmas through New Year's.

That'll be the big time.

And that's always been crazier than Sundance, by the way.

So I think I, I appreciated the cultural broadening that this created.

It just, it isn't just a ski town for that week.

It's a totally different headspace of the town for that week.

And I, as a filmmaker, have loved it.

And it's the reason I even knew Park City existed was coming here for work.

And like 0506, I came here for work and was like, what is this cool town?

And it's proximity to Salt Lake.

That's the whole reason I moved here.

Yeah.

So I think it is a big loss.

Having said that, the fact that Robert Redford died in December and the last one in

this area was the following January is very poetic.

If they're going to leave, this is the perfect timing.

But I think all the naysayers, and I was not among them.

I am very sad it's going of all the naysayers who were like, good riddance.

Give it a couple of years.

I think you're going to miss it.

Do you think it'll come back?

It'll never come back.

Now, ever, Sundance has the Institute down in actual Sundance ski resort.

And they leave their HQ here and there'll be some Salt Lake stuff.

But I don't think it comes back here.

Really?

I don't think it does.

And I'll be very curious to see how it does in Boulder.

I mean, Boulder is a similar vibe enough that it should do okay.

Plus Boulder is a college town.

You'll get a lot of college kids coming to the movies.

I think there's potential in Boulder.

I also think it will have a different vibe going forward.

It will not have the same vibe.

I've always associated the word Sundance with Park City.

Agreed, always.

So it'll be really interesting to see what it is like going forward.

I mean, let's be honest, I'm not going to attend.

I loved having it in my backyard and I tried to go to a couple of movies,

even though we're almost always busy at that season.

I tried to go to a couple of movies.

I like the vibe.

I always go to Main Street.

My wife and I did it again.

Just walk Main Street and just be in the environment.

Very cool.

Sad to see it go.

I think everybody else is going to be like, yeah, I remember when Sundance was here.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know.

I'm just going to be the old guy in the back going, I told you, I told you.

Did it just come down to voting?

Was it just City's lobbied Sundance and whatever?

City's lobbied Sundance for what they would give.

And here's the thing.

I don't know.

Many of you watching may know lots.

Money coming down the money.

Came down to access, help.

What, who was going to make the most inviting place to be?

And the three finalists were Park City Salt Lake and they were going to move more

of the Festival to Salt Lake if they'd stayed here.

Oh, really?

So just Park City Salt Lake events in Park City, Boulder and Cincinnati, Ohio,

which feels like the oddball of those three.

It does feel like the oddball, but those were the three that were the finalists

and Boulder won.

And I think Boulder's a cool place.

I'm just, it's going to be a different animal.

Remember when you and I went to Laird Hamilton's, I forget the name of it.

Yeah.

Was that his big way of surfing?

He's surfing, that was really impressive.

And then we didn't see him at the, the premiere, but we had heard just a few

days before he was helping push a stuck car in his flip flops.

He was out in the snowy parking lot, helping people push their car out of

the whatever car he was in, being driven somewhere.

He's like, well, they need help.

So he hopped out in his flip flops.

That seems very amazing.

That's very great.

Kirk Meyer was thinking about the customer profile of the Prelude.

If you want something sporty, that's about 130 mile daily commute cost of gas

matters.

That's his situation.

He thinks, you know what, a Prelude could work for him.

He could also take a GR86 or a Civic Type R, but then he thought, wait a minute,

you know what he could buy for Prelude money.

I can't believe this, Kirk.

This is great.

Again, 130 mile commute, something that is a sporty hybrid.

He said, what about a BMW I8?

And Kirk, to that I say, yes, please for Prelude money, mid 40s, BMW I8 by that

tomorrow.

They're that cheap now.

They're, they're, they're down.

Some of them are down.

It was always an exotic car in my mind when it was debuted in the Tom Cruise

Mission Possible.

Multiple BMW I8s with 60 to 80,000 miles for the price of the Prelude.

Oh, I say, yes, please.

I think that's awesome.

Petrolhead 2003 asks an interesting question.

He said, when we first did our mid-age of the mountain's piece, and that's years

ago, that's, that's a full, more than a decade.

It's 12, 12 years ago, more than a decade.

2014, that was when the Alpha 4C just came out.

We had the Alpha 4C with a base Porsche Cayman and a Lotus Elise.

He said, at the time, we seem like we like the 4C a lot.

Since then, we drove the 4C with the Alpine 110 and the Lotus Elise and didn't

like it nearly as much.

What changed?

A couple of things.

First off, keep in mind the fact that when we drove that car was 12 years ago, I

didn't own an Elise yet, and we weren't as experienced as reviewers or drivers.

We have become better drivers since then.

And I would like to think, and I do believe this, we have become more sensitive

drivers since then, where we can tell nuances of cars better.

So that was a factor.

Another factor, though, that helped with mid-age of mountains is if you go

back to that piece, I came away.

My favorite car was still the Elise.

We were very excited that the 4C existed and I stand by that.

I'm ecstatic that Alpha even made that car.

True.

And it is worth celebrating because it exists at all.

And I said in the lightweight's piece with the Alpine and the Lotus, I said, if

you're coming from anything that's not one of those three cars to the 4C, you're

going to be wowed by it.

It's very different and unique.

And it is a cool driving experience coming from anything else.

We had a base Cayman, which was fine and good and polished, but the 4C was

more interesting to drive than the base Cayman at the time.

But I still preferred the Elise.

The problem is I advance as a driver.

I get to know the Elise better and you put it with the Alpine A110, which is a

more interesting car to drive than the Cayman, the base Cayman.

It is.

So now you have Elise, which I love and still can't be beat.

You have the Alpine A110, which is more interesting than the 4C.

And now the 4C falls into the third position.

That's the reality of the progression.

I'm with you becoming a better driver, becoming more sensitive, more in tune.

And that just comes down to experience and driving more and more cars and

driving them in different scenarios.

But this question is also good because it directly ties into enthusiasts wanting

to trade up all the emails that we get.

I've had blank car like at the beginning with the RS3.

I thought it would be great.

It's great on paper.

And you know what?

That car is an aspirational car for many people who've never experienced that

and will think, wow, what an incredible car.

Well, Luke has moved on from it.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah.

Better driver looking for more engagement, whatever the reasons.

So we get all these emails because people progress through their driving career,

which makes me think we all need to leave the door open for our taste to change.

It's okay that I love Porsches and you love Lotus, but we both acknowledge it.

Well, McLaren's are pretty great.

And that's a pretty aspirational car.

And your GT4 is awesome.

And you really like my Amir.

I mean, that exists.

Yeah, for sure.

And so we're progressing as drivers and gaining more experience and becoming

better and situations change, taste change.

And then we're looking for a less raw experience or a more raw experience.

And we're constantly growing as drivers.

And I think it's a perfect example of what all of us experience as we grow in

our driving careers and experience more.

It's absolutely.

I mean, then it was revelatory.

Wow, carbon chassis.

It's just like this mini supercar.

And sure it finally competes.

And I'm like, you're right.

I'm glad they came out with the car.

It was Alfa's return to the U.S.

It was like, yes, please, absolutely.

And then cars get better.

It was when we first drove the Nissan GTR, we were wowed just like everybody.

And then realized the car could care less if I'm here.

And then we drove other things and then cars continue to improve and give us

more information, raw feedback, different driving experience.

I think it's it very much speaks to that.

So I think all of us need to allow for that in our lives, not we're stuck in

time in this particular place.

And that's as good as our driving skills get.

And that's as much as I know and love about cars, we're all constantly

learning, constantly moving forward and wanting more out of what's next.

I guess that's why it's a good thing that car manufacturers need to keep pushing

to because that was then we're all looking for what's next.

What's yes, car manufacturers bring the next cool, whatever it is.

A dumb car, no safety, anything, no ABS, brakes, two chairs, a manual.

I've come to dumb cars.

What a dumb car.

That's awesome.

Thank you all for watching, for listening, for sharing, for rating and

reviewing, for writing to us your questions.

We really appreciate it.

We really appreciate all the social media interaction too.

And if you haven't, again, seen that prelude video.

Add your comment.

We'd love to hear your thoughts for sure.

Thank you for watching.

Looking forward to next time, as always, cheers everyone.

The Soul Of A Car, A Disposable Car, A Car For A Particular Time In Your Life | Episode 1,032

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