Tom Bolt On Exploring the Emotional Connection and Status Symbols in Luxury Collecting
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Brand
tag hoia
They’re talking about TAG Heuer, a luxury watch brand. The joke is that seeing Brad Pitt wear a TAG Heuer watch makes people want to buy one, even though it won’t magically make you “be” Brad Pitt.
Car
908 Porsche 908
The Porsche 908 is an old Porsche race car from the 1960s. It’s a big deal to collectors, and in this story it also gets tied to the movie Scarface, which makes it feel like more than just a car.
Brand
Scarface
Scarface is a famous movie. The host is saying the Porsche 908 feels extra special because it’s connected to that movie.
Topic
M4
The M4 is a big highway in the UK. Here it’s mentioned to show the speaker felt like they’d “arrived” in a more successful life.
Brand
Rolex
Rolex is a famous luxury watch brand that collectors pay a lot of money for. The host is saying they contacted Rolex for help, because getting clear information from the brand can be difficult.
Car
Ferrari 599
The Ferrari 599 is a Ferrari grand tourer—basically a fast, luxury long-distance car. Here, the host is talking about it as a collectible because only a small number were made, and some were built for right-hand-drive markets like the UK.
Concept
limited numbers
“Limited numbers” refers to a model being produced in small quantities, which can increase desirability and collectibility. In this segment, the host ties limited production to how many cars exist worldwide and how many were allocated to specific markets like the UK.
Term
left-hand drive
Left-hand drive means the steering wheel is on the left side of the car. The host is saying that where the car is built for (and how easy it is to use in different countries) can change its value.
Topic
Luxury collecting status symbols
They’re talking about why people collect expensive cars for more than just speed—things like image, emotion, and status. The Ferrari 599 GTO is used as the example.
Car
Ferrari 599 GTO
The Ferrari 599 GTO is a rare, more hardcore version of the Ferrari 599. People chase it because it’s limited and has a big “serious Ferrari” status vibe.
Term
historic race livery
A historic race livery is the car’s paint and decals styled like an old racing car. It’s popular because it makes the car feel tied to racing history.
Term
racing roundals
“Roundals” sounds like the round racing stickers/badges on the car. They’re there to make the car look like it belongs to a classic race theme.
Car
Pontiac GTO
The Pontiac GTO is a classic American muscle car. It was built to be fast and powerful, and it’s remembered as one of the iconic performance cars from its time. People bring it up because it’s a collectible classic with a strong enthusiast following.
Car
G-Class Gwagon
The G-Class is a Mercedes-Benz SUV with a very distinctive, boxy shape. It’s built to handle rough roads and off-road conditions, while still being comfortable. People mention it because it’s a well-known, long-lasting model.
Car
Rolls-Royce Cullinan Black Badge
The Rolls-Royce Cullinan Black Badge is a special, sportier-looking version of the Cullinan SUV. It’s still a luxury Rolls-Royce, but with a more aggressive “Black Badge” personality.
Car
Rolls-Royce Cullinan
The Rolls-Royce Cullinan is a luxury SUV made by Rolls-Royce. It’s built for comfort and a high-end feel, not for off-road work alone. The Black Badge is a special version with different styling and tuning details.
Car
Nissan 350Z
The Nissan 350Z is a popular sports car from Nissan. People love it because it’s fun to drive and it was considered a “cool” car when it came out.
Topic
Emotional connection to motorcycles vs cars
They’re talking about why motorcycles feel more exciting to them than cars. The discussion is about personal feelings—sound, freedom, and how the driving experience feels.
Term
manual
“Manual” means the car has a stick shift. You have to actively change gears yourself, which makes multitasking—like using your phone—hard.
Car
Aston Martin DB5
The Aston Martin DB5 is a famous old luxury sports car, especially because it’s associated with James Bond. When someone mentions it, they usually mean the “cool factor” and collectible status of that era.
Term
premium thing
Here “premium” means paying more money mainly for the prestige or exclusivity, not just because the car is better in a practical way.
Term
Patek Philippe chronograph
A chronograph is a watch feature that lets you time how long something takes. With a brand like Patek Philippe, collectors also care a lot about the exact model and history of the watch.
Brand
MG
MG is a car brand from the UK. Here, it’s mentioned because the seller would only sell the watch deal if the buyer could also buy a new MG car.
Concept
loan shark
A loan shark is a predatory lender who gives loans with very high interest and pressure to pay back. In this story, it’s how the speaker got money fast to buy the watch.
Concept
trade value
Trade value is the baseline amount someone would give you if you swap your item for something else. The speaker says they want extra money on top of that baseline.
Concept
uplift
An “uplift” is an added premium above a reference price (here, above the trade value). The speaker is framing the watch’s worth as both financial (investment) and personal (family meaning), which justifies the premium.
Topic
Le Mans
Le Mans is a very famous long-distance race in France. It’s hard because the cars have to keep going for a long time, so winning is a big deal.
Concept
Bentley boys
“Bentley boys” refers to a group of British wealthy racing fans and drivers who were closely associated with Bentley’s early Le Mans wins. It’s also a way of saying it was part of a certain high-society lifestyle.
Concept
condition of them
They’re talking about how the watch looks and has been treated over time. Collectors usually prefer watches that haven’t been cleaned up or changed, because that keeps them more “original.”
Term
dial original
It means the watch face is the original one, not a swapped-in or restored replacement. Collectors like that because it proves the watch is authentic.
Term
polished
“Polished” refers to buffing or refinishing surfaces to improve appearance, which can remove original material and evidence of wear. In luxury collecting, polishing is often viewed negatively because it can compromise originality and reduce collector value.
Concept
watching the market
It means keeping an eye on what similar luxury items are selling for right now. Collectors do this because the price can change, and details like condition and originality matter a lot.
Company
Aston Workshops
“Aston Workshops” is the company the speaker says did the rebuild/restoration. When collectors talk about who restored a car, they’re usually pointing to quality and credibility.
Brand
APs
“APs” is shorthand for Audemars Piguet, another luxury watch brand. In this context, it’s grouped with other brands to support the point that certain collectible watches can appreciate massively.
Car
Lincoln Nautilus
The Lincoln Nautilus is a mid-size SUV from Lincoln, which is a luxury car brand. It’s designed for comfortable everyday driving and family use. It may be mentioned because someone bought one for a relatively low price compared with typical luxury vehicles.
Concept
double in price
They’re talking about how some luxury cars can go up a lot in value—sometimes even doubling. But it’s not guaranteed, so you’re betting on the market.
Concept
profit
They mean making money by buying a car and selling it for more later. It’s more like flipping than keeping it.
Concept
downside as well as the upside
They’re saying there’s risk either way—cars can go up in value, but they can also lose value. So you can’t assume the “good outcome” will happen.
Concept
million pounds invested in a car
They’re describing putting a huge amount of money into one car. And depending on the market, that money could grow a lot—or shrink a lot.
Brand
FPZone
FPZone is referenced as a party the watch “kept on going back to.” In the collecting world, dealers and marketplaces like FPZone can influence liquidity (how easily items trade) and the perceived market value of specific pieces.
Brand
Breguet
Breguet is a famous luxury watch brand. The point here is that the watch being discussed is in the same “serious watchmaking” category as brands like Breguet.
Term
tourbillon
A tourbillon is a fancy mechanism inside a watch where part of the timing system rotates. It’s historically about accuracy, but today it’s also a status symbol because it’s hard to make.
Brand
FP Jaune
FP Jaune is the name of a watch brand. The host is saying they’ve heard of it before, but it didn’t really interest them until now.
Concept
market value
Market value is the real price people are paying for a car right now. The hosts say it often takes years for the market to figure out what a rare car is truly worth. That’s why the later price can be much higher than the original list price.
Car
Ferrari Sp3 Daytona
The Ferrari Daytona SP3 is a very expensive, limited-run Ferrari supercar. It’s made in small numbers, which helps make it rare. It may be mentioned because its value can be extremely high compared with most cars.
Concept
out-the-door price
Out-the-door price is the full total you pay to actually get the item, not just the advertised price. They’re saying buyers may pay far more than the original list price.
Concept
residual value
Residual value means what the car is expected to be worth in the future. If you buy expecting it to hold value but it drops, it can make the car feel less satisfying to own and drive.
Term
pavé dial
A pavé dial means the watch face is covered with lots of tiny stones set close together so it sparkles.
Term
diamond baguette bezel
A diamond baguette bezel means the outer ring of the watch is set with rectangular-cut diamonds.
Term
6270
“6270” is a specific model reference number for that Rolex Daytona. Collectors use these numbers to know the exact version.
Concept
racing version
A “racing version” usually means modifying a luxury or grand touring car toward track-oriented performance—think suspension/brakes/tires and sometimes engine tuning—while keeping the original car’s identity. In this segment, it’s the emotional and creative goal behind the host’s Bentley project.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car made by Porsche. It’s known for being quick and fun to drive, and many people consider it a “classic” modern performance car. It may be mentioned because it tends to stay valuable compared with many other cars.
Car
Lamborghini Countach
The Lamborghini Countach is a very famous supercar from Lamborghini. It’s known for its bold look and for being a rare, collectible car. People mention it because it’s a classic that many collectors want.
Company
Tom Hartley Cars
Tom Hartley Cars is a company that sells high-end cars in the UK. The host mentions it when talking about how supercars are bought and sold.
Car
Volkswagen Bora
The Volkswagen Bora is a regular passenger car, usually a sedan. It’s meant for everyday driving and practicality rather than being a sports or luxury car. It may be mentioned simply as a car model someone owned or encountered.
Term
two-stroke engine
A two-stroke engine makes power every two piston movements, so it’s a simpler cycle than a four-stroke. It usually needs oil mixed into the fuel, which is one reason it can be fussier and needs more upkeep.
Term
four-stroke engines
A four-stroke engine is a type of engine that works in four steps—taking air in, squeezing it, burning it to make power, and then pushing exhaust out. It’s the most common engine style in normal cars.
Term
two-strokes
A two-stroke engine makes power in two steps instead of four. It’s common on some bikes and small engines, and it can feel punchier, but it usually isn’t as clean or efficient as a four-stroke.
Term
full-stroke engine
This phrase is talking about an engine design where the piston moves a longer distance inside the cylinder. That often makes the engine feel stronger at lower speeds, like it has more “pull.”
Brand
Submariner
The Submariner is a famous Rolex watch model. It’s a “big-name” luxury watch people recognize, and the conversation treats it like part of the same status world as expensive cars.
Brand
Deepsea
Deepsea is a Rolex watch model that’s built as a tougher, bigger dive-style watch. In this conversation, it’s mentioned as another example of a luxury watch people buy.
Concept
equivalent value in a watch pro rater to the car that you drive
They’re talking about how people compare the “worth” of a watch to the “worth” of the car they drive. It’s about status—what feels like the right level of luxury to match your car.
Brand
steel Daytona
A steel Daytona is a Rolex Daytona watch made from stainless steel. The speaker is pointing out that even a “regular-looking” (non-gold) Daytona can be a big deal in luxury watch collecting.
Brand
Audemars PK
They’re mentioning a luxury watch brand, but the audio transcription is unclear. The discussion is about high-end watches with very complex mechanisms.
Term
complications
In watches, “complications” means extra features beyond just telling time. Things like chiming the time or showing the date automatically usually make the watch more complex inside.
Term
perpetual calendar
A perpetual calendar is a watch feature that keeps the date correct automatically, including tricky things like different month lengths and leap years. It’s more complex than a simple date display.
Brand
Richard Mill
Richard Mille is a luxury watch brand famous for making very high-tech watches that are also designed to be lighter and tougher than you’d expect. The host compares the idea to using lightweight materials in cars.
Company
AP
AP is short for a luxury watch maker called Audemars Piguet. Here, the host is saying he worked with AP to figure out whether a particular watch is a real prototype or not.
Concept
prototype
A prototype is an early version made before the final, regular product. In this story, it explains why the item’s paperwork/numbering doesn’t match the usual production history.
Concept
the one that got away
It means you really wanted something, but you missed the chance to buy it. Later, you keep thinking about it because it felt like a perfect match.
Concept
left the factory
This is about where the item came from when it was first made and shipped out. Collectors care because it helps prove the item’s history and legitimacy.
Car
Bentley P116
The Bentley P116 is essentially a one-off prototype/unique project, not something you could just buy off a showroom floor. Collectors value it because it’s rare and different.
Car
Ferrari 599 Speciale Aperta
The Ferrari 599 Speciale Aperta is a rare open-top version of the 599. It’s a collector-focused Ferrari because it’s limited and built to feel more special than the regular model.
Car
Mercedes G500 convertible
The Mercedes-Benz G500 convertible is a G-Class with the top down. It’s especially interesting here because it’s right-hand drive and hard to find.
Car
Mercedes-Benz G500
The Mercedes-Benz G-Class is a well-known SUV from Mercedes-Benz. It’s famous for being tough and for its boxy shape. A G500 convertible and right-hand drive are special versions that can be harder to find.
Term
right-hand drive
Right-hand drive means the steering wheel is on the right side of the car. It’s common in countries that drive on the left, and collectors often care because it can be hard to find.
Brand
AP Royal Oak Offshore
AP Royal Oak Offshore is a specific line of luxury watches from Audemars Piguet. The point here is that collectors often pair certain watches with certain cars as part of their style/status.
Term
minute repeater
A minute repeater is a watch feature that can chime the time out loud when you press a button. It’s a “time-telling by sound” complication.
Term
dive watch
A dive watch is built to handle being submerged in water. It often has extra durability and tools to help you track time while diving.
LIVE
Watches or cars, pound for pound.
Oh, mate.
It's about the kind of the thrill of the game.
He's got six wonderful cars.
Watches are about moods.
Cars are also about moods, right?
They're so different.
So your mission, should you choose to accept it, is?
This is interesting.
That is most important singular wristwatch in the last 25 years.
Have you ever taken a car for a watch?
Yeah, taken houses.
Do you think normal people buy million-pound watches,
million-pound cars?
That's obviously what makes these people successful
in order to buy these things.
Tom, what's a bigger status symbol?
A 100-gram-watt or a million-pound car?
So I have a really dirty secret here.
I...
Shall we go and have a look at some cars?
Yeah, cool. All right, let's go.
Tom, would you prefer cars or watches?
And it doesn't depend...
I'm not saying this because it's a sort of self-fulfilling
kind of prophecy, but I just prefer watches.
So you get more enjoyment out of the watches you wear,
but you're not allowed to wear them
because you can't wear them because of security, but...
Watches make me feel something,
whereas cars don't really make me kind of like feel something.
You talk...
Like, when we talk...
Yeah, you talk about watches.
You talk about your cars a lot and the love for your cars.
I love cars, and I love...
But here's the truth, right?
OK, so I got some cars here today to kind of show you guys.
I am ashamed to say that I haven't seen them in, like, a year.
Well, you just put them away in storage.
Yeah, I just...
I should say you might not see them ever again.
Before you were here, you were like,
How much is that? How much is that?
I was trying to buy them every time.
That's the only reason you're doing this show, isn't it?
I don't even watch YouTube.
What's the podcast?
So how many cars you got here for us to look at?
I have, I guess, six cars here for you.
OK.
All very interesting.
They're so different.
Every car is just...
I mean, he's got six wonderful cars.
But you know what?
Some people might say that's because of some fucking skit, so...
Would you say that?
What car for different moods kind of thing?
Yeah, but it's not because it's like watches.
People say to me,
Watchers are about moods,
so therefore I think you've got to cover the bases
if you're collecting them.
For me, cars are also about moods, right?
100%.
I think, do you know what I mean?
And besides, I'm 58 now.
I'm too fucking old to get in and out of the low ones,
so I just sort of bend down and look at them
and kind of think,
I'm not getting in that stage.
Also, I think a watch as well.
It's...
You've got it on your wrist, right?
So wherever you go, it goes with you.
Yeah.
If you arrive somewhere in a nice car,
then no one really sees it for it to be a talking point
because you either park it down the road
and then you go to where you're going or whatever.
Unless you walk in to go,
Oh, hi everybody, I've got a 599, a perter.
You could have a number plate around you there.
You know, just keep wrangling the keys in when you're coming.
But a watch because it's on your wrist.
Loads of people have approached me when I've worn different watches
and they've started a conversation with me
about what they think or they've got a similar one
or they wanted to buy that one or they used to have it
and then that leads into what cars they have
and what they do for a living.
And it's a conversation piece that starts off with a car
unless you go to these car meets,
which I'm personally not a fan of
because all I do is talk about and look at cars all day.
To say with watch shows.
You know, yeah, it's the same thing.
You know, you go to a car meeting.
Do you like hanging around like car dealers as well?
I don't really like hanging around anybody.
You won't have any of them.
I don't even rob a little bit.
Because you have to.
You won't have any of the other car dealers on the show.
No, no, no.
Well, I just don't know why I should give anybody else a platform.
No, I've created it.
You know, going back to something that's interesting
and again, I'm not.
I'm really not a blown smoke here, but you know,
you sort of joked about the colour of your kind of aquanaut,
whatever, right?
And it's a bit feminine.
You know, that's what you say.
I just say that.
You said it.
I'll just leave you.
I'll just take it off.
You said that, right?
But here's the thing, right?
What is cool to me, OK,
isn't having the latest FPG on isn't whatever.
It's wearing something that is perhaps not the norm
or slightly different.
I agree.
And feeling and looking confident in it.
That's why that's cool on you.
Do you know what I mean?
It's a bit like, and I know your favourite watch,
the Cartier Crash.
But it's a bit like, you know, seeing like,
Timothy Shallerman, if you like,
wearing a lady's watch, right?
He pulls it off because it looks cool
and he feels good wearing it and he,
and therefore it exudes confidence.
And that's what makes people go,
that's fucking cool.
I can do that.
Do you know what I mean?
So I think that what's cool and what's hot
is what someone wears
and the way that they look and feel wearing it.
That's what's cool.
Wearing the latest thing to me is just not cool.
Do you know what I mean?
I also think somebody who's a collector
in any sort of high-end commodity,
I don't think a normal person is classed as normal.
I don't think they exist amongst collectors.
Everyone's got a quirk
and everyone's got some kind of personality.
Do you think normal people, right,
buy 100,000, 200,000 million-pound watches,
million-pound cars?
There's a slight quirk.
There's something about them.
Yeah, of course there is.
I deal with them every day and so do you.
And that's obviously what makes these people
successful in order to buy these things.
Do they think outside the box?
But do you not think that the main ingredient
to the people that we deal with,
with the exception of, let's say,
people that have been handed down that well,
let's say, high achievers, let's say, that we deal with,
do you not think that the main ingredient to them all
is just addiction?
Yeah.
Obsession.
Yeah, okay.
Because that's what makes them like,
you know, they're working 24-7,
they're on it, they're on it, they're on it.
And that, and unfortunately that, I think,
has its pluses and its minuses, right?
Its minuses are that, you know,
they've just got to have that thing,
got to have that thing, got to have that thing.
And a lot of time, nothing really brings them satisfaction.
And by the, not that you or I would ever take advantage
of such people.
No, definitely not.
I used to do them a credit.
They earned money out of me.
They earned more money out of me than I do off of them.
Barlow.
Sometimes.
Barlow.
I'm calling bullshit on that.
This is going on fucking YouTube.
Barlow.
Okay, so.
But it is amazing though, right?
Like confidence, right?
It is amazing, okay?
I don't know about you, right?
But we all go through the stuff, right?
Like, so Carl's sitting there, right?
Dekta Houghton is kind of like, you know,
looking sharp, looking cool, do you know what I mean?
Watch goes with what you're wearing.
You know, you look, you look slick, right?
You know, I'm just getting this decent,
I'm thinking, oh, I look like a fucking homeless person,
like, do you know what I mean?
I should have dressed up more, do you know what I mean?
It is amazing how confidence and how people are perceived
can sort of, I'm saying that a bit tongue-in-cheek,
I don't really give a shit,
although I wouldn't be wearing my socks, do you know what I mean?
But what I mean is it is amazing how people can aspire
to the way that other people are and to want to be them,
do you know what I mean?
I did this thing in, in this, this, this kind of
quite culty TV program for, come on,
it's called Time Machines.
We were debating about, I don't understand how seeing Brad Pitt
wearing a tag hoia, right, is going to make me want to go out
and buy a tag hoia, I just don't get it, right?
And then the thing I said, I said,
it doesn't come with a fucking mask of Brad,
I'm not going to suddenly turn into Brad, do you know what I mean?
But I guess I slowly do sort of understand it now,
the power of advertising, because you know,
the whole thing's aspirational, isn't it?
Well, I think of the Steve McQueen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think he's an exception to the rule, though.
Is that what I was going to ask?
Is it just because he was a god?
But again, well, hang on.
But hang on a second, though, right?
So it's interesting that because I think if you ask most people,
is it, oh, yes, Stephen King is so cool, right?
And you go, but why?
I don't know how he just is.
It's like an espigeon sort of analogy there.
Because yeah, okay, he was, he was all right,
I think Paul Newman was cooler.
Well, that's another example, isn't it?
The Paul Newman.
Yeah, but hang on, but Paul Newman's shades
don't go for the May that McQueen's shades go for.
He is the icon of cool, but quite why he is,
I don't think people could tell you,
but just that's the name that we know,
and that's who we're going for, do you know what I mean?
But the Paul Newman Daytona is serious, isn't it?
Yeah, sure.
But that aside, as far as the individual
I'm just talking about is sort of the coolness,
I think that McQueen is it.
But why is he it?
But my point was, you were saying
you didn't really get Brad Pitt with the tag.
Why would you wear the tag as Brad Pitt wears it?
But I guess you can get the Paul Newman Steve McQueen thing.
Yeah, no, no, I can, but I think...
Is it just because you think they're cooler?
No, but I don't.
I don't buy it.
I think that Steve McQueen was cool
because he fucking, he was like, he was a doer, right?
He fucking raced cars.
He was like, you know, he was a badass motorcyclist.
You know, the man was a fucking GI Joe, right?
Every woman wanted him.
Sure.
He had all of them.
He used to take drugs.
He's just done everything that people think
I'm too scared to do, but he's just doing it all.
Yeah, yeah, and I think that...
I think drug thing aside...
Stop course, do it.
I think that if you ask most people
why he's so cool,
I think they can tell you why he was.
They can tell you that he raced cars,
they can tell you that he raced motorcycles.
They just know that he is.
And it's that thing about just a spire.
Well, his nickname was the King of Cool.
And that gets passed down.
It's like, why is...
If you ask someone who's never watched boxing in their life,
who's the greatest boxer of all time,
they go Muhammad Ali.
And they go, why?
Well, because he's known as the greatest.
Just because he's known as the greatest...
It's interesting that thing.
It's interesting that thing, isn't it?
Because without doubt, he wasn't, right?
I mean, that's how big a boxing fan is going to go,
you don't know what you're talking about.
Fucking stick to watches, mate.
But...
No, but he was...
Stay in your lane.
The man got beaten, was it three times?
So, and you could...
Marciano, right?
Marciano fought everybody.
He fought men that were 30% heavier than him.
Never got beaten.
And it wasn't like you could pick and choose who you fought.
You fought next in line, next, next, next.
Yeah, you fought like eight times a year.
Right, for everybody.
Yeah.
But I think the reason why Ali is viewed as being the greatest
is because people love a comeback king.
And the fact that I think, you know, with the exception of Holmes,
you know, he beat everybody that beat him again.
He came back and he beat him.
But he also, as well, what he achieved in his life outside of boxing
was a fantastic person, wasn't he?
He'd done so much.
He wasn't just a boxer.
No, of course.
And I think that's why the point is, you know,
and I've watched the movie about him.
I've watched several documentaries and movies about him.
And he said in one of them,
if I keep telling people I'm the greatest.
They'll believe me.
They'll believe me.
So you keep saying it enough.
Now, and also he was like, he's a good looking dude.
He was quit with his tongue.
I mean, he had the whole kind of package.
But I think it was because he got beaten and he came back.
And he kind of like, and he beat his conquerors.
I think that people just love.
But Lennox Lewis done that.
Yeah, sure.
Lennox Lewis knocked out every person.
He's not got the style, the poetry.
No, I mean, he was just a character.
Before anybody was a character.
He was the first, wasn't he?
He was the first trash talker, personality.
You know, yeah.
So have you ever taken a car for a watch?
Yeah.
So someone has paid for a watch with a car?
I've taken houses.
You've taken houses?
But this one?
No.
Someone has given you a house for a watch.
But as far as the cars, do you know what?
In 19, I'm going to go 91.
I took a Porsche 908.
I love the 908.
I love the 908 because of Scarface.
Do you know what I mean?
I mean, with the machine guns.
But I took, it was horrendous, the spec of it.
It was like in that terrible 80s sort of bronze color.
You were going to say.
With the checkered...
Yeah, I knew you were going to say.
With the checkered satart and mustady checkered car.
Right, yeah.
But, all right, I took it.
And I remember we took it out for a drive.
And I thought I had arrived.
I was like, what is going on here?
You've got to remember that.
You've got to remember, I was working in a warehouse
like a year and a half, two years prior to this, right?
Lifting fucking boxes, stacking videos for blockbusters.
I was driving a forklift.
You know what I mean?
Suddenly, I'm like dealing in watches.
I haven't been introduced to this sort of like, this sort of new world.
And I'm now taking cars in part exchange.
And I just remember, you know, those early,
repeating the buzz of how I felt when I suddenly started doing a bit of business
and realized that I didn't actually have to sort of like break my nuts
and clean the houses, which I did for a bit and all that kind of stuff.
And that I could buy and sell, which I knew I was always good at since I was a kid.
And I suddenly found this world and thought, wow, man,
like, you know, I'm earning 500 quid or a grand.
And I remember driving this car.
I'd never lost any sort of time.
So my mate was driving the car and we're driving on the M4
and I was like, mate, we have fucking arrived.
Check us out.
The car was worth around like five grand.
It was like a heap, you know what I mean?
And it had on the dashboard, it had the...
This was the car used in the roadshow.
Do you know what I mean?
It had that sort of flat, whatever.
So, yeah, that and then I've taken...
Oh, I mean, and then after that, man, I'm fucking cherry is gone.
I've taken fucking 16M's.
I've taken GTO's.
I've taken a Peartes, the Peartes.
Actually, the Peartes are outside.
It was a bit of a nightmare.
So I sold three prototype Rolexes to a really good client of mine.
And one of the few times, actually, that...
I don't like selling things on AppPro because there's no, like, skin in the game.
There's no feeling of satisfaction.
It's so fucking easy to borrow something and to sell it personally speaking.
I understand it happens a lot more with cars because of the logistics involved
and the sort of, you know, storage and that kind of stuff.
With watches and like, listen, I buy it and I sell it.
I sold these three watches that were owned by a sort of, like, kind of unusual collector.
Unusual.
And then a troll started badmouthing these watches, right?
And they were three genuine kind of, like, Rolex sort of prototypes, really.
Saying, oh, that one was fake and this sort of stuff and all that sort of stuff.
And I was like, oh, wow.
And my client called me up and went, listen, there's quite a lot of heat and stuff going on about these watches.
And I was like, yeah, there is.
And he goes, I kind of feel uncomfortable earning them, really.
Do you want to do a deal back on that?
I never bought them, right?
And I was like, good client, man.
I was like, yeah, man, I know they're not.
I know it's just bullshit and people often like talk shit.
They don't.
There's a saying in our business, I'm sure it's the same as yours, Carl,
is that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, right?
People love to flex and talk about shit that they don't know about, right?
Me included sometimes about subjects.
And like I'm pretending to know about cars here today.
And so basically, I said, I'll tell you what, here's what we'll do.
Okay, I'll give you my Perta.
Take my Perta.
That's worth X.
I'll take a few watches back into stock.
And he goes, okay, I said, but I have written to Rolex.
I've written to them numerous times, but they're a nightmare to get information out of.
And so I'm waiting on one of the answers from them.
And I've kind of put the arm behind their back.
And I've said, look, you know, I'm going to make a TV program about this.
So it'd be good if you could help out.
Otherwise it's not going to look great for you guys either.
Anyway, so he took my Perta.
And while later, I got this positive letter about one of the watches that kind of proved all this shit was being talked about.
And it wasn't wasn't true.
And I was kind of like quits in.
And I thought bad that I went back to him.
I said, listen, man, this thing's come through now verifying what I told you and all the kind of stuff.
And he goes, don't worry about it, man. It's cool.
It's just like, no, if you do get out of them, just, you know, give me a drink.
I'm happy with the car or whatever.
And so, yeah.
And then I took the car back from him along the GTO.
I bought them off him about, I don't know, but like a sort of year and a half ago.
So I got everything.
Anything else?
So a house?
16m art.
Taking lots of art.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Mate, when I first started this business, I can, I went in the program called four rooms, right?
Because I used to sort of deal in all kinds of stuff.
And I used to just pretend I knew what I was doing or buying the settings or mad stuff.
I can remember being a kid and being on like a motorcycle and coming back with a rucksack.
They had a car to get having played someone, some sort of backgammon stuff.
And then dealing a watch and coming back with a vintage car to get backgammon board, fucking all kinds of stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
No, yeah.
For me, right, it's not, it's not really kind of, I mean, I guess it's easy to say now because I'm doing all right.
But, you know, it's become, the business for me has become a sort of, it's not really for the money.
It's for the kind of love of the game, if you know what I mean?
I'm sure it's the same for you, Carl, right?
It's like, it's the deal that I love more than anything else.
Do you know what I mean?
The derivatives of the deal are great, but you know what?
I could cut my cloth and retire now.
It's not about that.
It's about the kind of the thrill of the game, do you know what I mean?
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So, we're going to have a look at your cars in a moment.
Before we do, can you just tell us what you've got here?
Yeah, so I've got the 599, a Perta.
One of 80 worldwide.
And the right-hand drive, how many?
Oh, there's normally...
Am I right in saying 10 or is that?
Normally 10% of whatever Ferrari or another brand made, that's limited numbers.
There's normally 10% that's sort of made for the UK.
So, there's somewhere between probably 8 and 10 that were originally right-hand drive UK-supplied cars.
And what do we think that's worth, roughly?
They're a bit all over the place at the minute, but they go from a million to 1.5 depending on age, mileage, spec, history.
Are the right-hookers worth more than the left-hookers?
Well, they should be, but they're not.
And that goes across the board for all Ferraris.
You would think the lower numbers, because it's a UK car in the UK, blah, blah, blah,
because it's a worldwide market, left-hand drive goes anywhere in Europe.
I'm guessing that with the Aperta, because it's a sort of sunshine car, right?
It's a sort of convertible.
Without a sort of a proper fixed roof.
Exactly.
A manual, you know, you need a degree in...
It's a nightmare.
I can't even put a Kia flat pack together, so I go out in the car and I'm like...
Just literally may as well not be a competition.
Yeah, so I've got that.
I prefer your evaluation of 1.5 than 1, by the way.
That's Karl's spread.
Yeah, that's his margin.
I've got a 599 GTO that was Chris Evans' car.
And I'm a spoilt prick, right?
So I always said that, do you know what I mean?
That Ferraris are for wankers, right?
Porsche, Porsche, Porsche, Porsche.
Real truth is I couldn't afford a Ferrari, right?
I do love Porsches, though.
I can probably drive a Porsche, and I can drive a Ferrari.
Which isn't very fast, by the way.
But I always wanted a 599 GTO.
But I didn't know that I wanted a 599 GTO.
I just saw Chris Evans' car with the historic race livery.
And it's got the racing roundals on it.
It's got the yellow stripe and stuff on it.
And I'm just a fucking child, right?
It's like, you know, I like...
Same as watches, which I'll talk about in a minute.
But I kind of wanted that car.
But I wouldn't have a Ferrari until I could have that car.
And so there used to be an outfit on the A40
called Sparks cars, remember Sparks?
I remember Sparks cars.
Sparks cars changed name about 15 times.
I think that might have been for the odd reason also.
Well, that was for the same reason.
And so...
Like construction companies, yeah.
And he knew Chris.
I said, listen, can you ask Chris with that car for sale?
Anyway, and I wouldn't have one.
The fans are saying to me,
we'll just get a normal 599.
I'm like, no, no, no.
I want that one.
Yeah.
I want that one.
Yeah, exactly.
And so basically, eventually I got that one.
I got to know Chris a bit and stuff and quite fun.
What else is in your collection?
What's here?
You've got the GTOs.
So I'll ask you what my favorite car out there is out there.
And you probably won't guess it.
But there's a...
You leave the questions to me, yeah.
Sorry.
There's a Continental T.
There's a prototype of the Continental T Bentley.
There's a 599 Aperta,
which Colors has politely informed me
that there's actually a better version.
It has a better bumper, which I'm now sort of like...
Well, it's not a better version.
It's just an option.
No, it's not.
He said it at the time.
Sounds like a deal in there.
You can't...
He did then make me want to take it off your hands.
He's bubbling up with the bumper.
I've got...
I thought I was going to inspect him.
I'm like, hey, what's going on here?
599 GTO and a kind of an old 500 G-Wagon convertible
that I put my dog in.
He loves it.
And we go out and we sort of like...
You said 6.
Is that 6 covered?
I think so.
No, the Black Badge Cullinan.
Oh, yeah.
See, he got Cullinan as well.
Told you.
My...
Yeah, he does.
My Lingus.
It took me a while, but I got it.
This is terrible, that is.
The sad jokes are rolling out.
You have to be careful.
I don't get it.
Cullinan, Cunny Lingus.
He doesn't even know what that is.
No, I don't know.
Do you know what that is?
Lunching at the Y.
You don't know what that is, do you?
He lifts all 11.
But you've got to be careful how you say it, right?
Because if you say Black Badge Lingus, right,
it's not...
Christ.
But Black Badge Lingus, right,
you just got to get your syllables correct.
OK.
So there you are, 6.
I think you're a continental.
It's your favourite.
Which one?
The T.
You're spot on, actually.
Such an undervalued car.
I love that car.
And I don't know how much of that is history, right?
But...
It's the way you spoke about it.
And it's often...
It's a bit like, you know, the first girl you fall in love with,
you always have a special place there.
That first car,
I remember getting a 350Z,
when that was a big car for me.
I'll always love that car.
I mean, look at it now, it's nothing,
but I'll always love that car.
So I have a really dirty secret here, OK?
And I didn't tell you before you came,
because I don't think you'd be sitting here if you knew, OK?
I don't know what's going to come out.
I can't believe it.
I'm actually going to...
He's still trying to work out what kind of Lingus is.
I'm still...
This could be...
You know the Gerald Ratnam moment?
He might be able to spell it.
He wouldn't be able to spell it.
That GBT will find it.
Yeah.
Right, but basically...
He's putting M at the start, C-U-M, for a start.
Oh, here we go.
OK, can I read it out?
Sure you can, come on.
Cody Lingus is an oral sect act,
consisting of the stimulation of the vulva.
And the car, that's not vulva, it's not a car.
Oh, fuck it now.
When does it turn into this?
So, I've been thinking, do I say this?
Do I?
Because it could be the ultimate Gerald Ratnam moment
for my, you know, never to appear on kind of cars
and manning sort of over again.
I can't drive manual cars.
I was expecting worse than that.
Oh, really?
Would you?
I mean, after everything, the last 10 minutes...
I tried to elevate it so it wouldn't seem so bad,
but it's the same thing, right?
If it's someone from your era...
I hate cars. Listen...
You hate cars?
Listen, I only got a car license.
I did schoolboy motocross from age 7, right?
I love motorcycles, man.
Nothing will make me feel more alive than a motorcycle.
Even having the roof off in that 599 a pair,
so with the sound and everything,
going through a fucking tunnel, whatever,
and putting my pedal to the metal,
just doesn't do the same as a motorcycle for me.
So none of your cars are manual?
No.
All right.
Oh, man.
What do you think about that?
I don't like manual cars.
I mean, I can drive them.
Oh, Carl, I love you.
I can drive them,
but how are you supposed to use your phone
and change gear at the same time?
Listen, man.
So what happened?
So I had a motorcycle, right?
I used to go off and buy watches from people.
My business started, right,
with the Loot Magazine, the exchange of mark,
going off, buying watches for cash from people
I'd never met before,
advertising them for a newspaper, right?
So I had to tip my dog with me,
and my dog knew the scoop,
and I had this great trick
where he used to keep the cash in his harness in a pocket,
and if anybody went to his harness,
and were apart from me,
he'd fucking rip your arm off.
You kept the cash in your dogs.
Do you know how I did it?
I got people to come around.
I kept basically his snacks, right,
in the harness.
And every time I went to his harness,
I got a snack out and gave it to him.
I got friends to do it,
and basically to take the snacks out,
but not give them to him,
and go and put them in the bin,
which trained him.
No fucking was going to his fucking snack harness
anyway.
And I used to, I had to motorcycle to sidecar,
and I used to put them in the sidecar,
and we used to go off,
and go off and buy watches, right?
And honestly, it was the funniest thing, right?
He was an absolute,
we always get rescue dogs, right?
He was a fucking meathead of the staff here, right?
And honestly, that dog,
this is before I was married, babe,
that dog got me,
I mean, that dog got me lay beyond belief, honestly, mate.
That dog,
and I'd go to a pub with them,
sit there with him,
and honestly,
girls would just be all over him.
Yeah, it's because he had 50 grand in his car.
Yeah.
Brilliant.
But we'd sit at the,
we'd sit at the,
that's brilliant,
we'd sit at the traffic lights, right?
And,
and he'd go under the foot well,
okay, until we basically,
until we were stationary,
because he didn't like,
all fucking wind in his face.
And he'd come up,
and he'd sit on the seat at the traffic lights,
and he'd sit like that,
sticking his chest out,
and he knew that everybody was checking him out.
It was just the coolest thing.
And then it backfired one day.
He hoisted himself out,
and would never fucking,
would never get back in it.
But,
I diverse.
So,
then what happened is,
that we were having a kid,
and I tried to persuade the missus, right?
The baby would be fine,
the sidecar.
She was like,
you're fucking mad, right?
I'm not putting any baby in mind,
in the sidecar.
We say baby, like,
what age are we talking here?
Well, baby, like, from the hospital, baby.
Oh, like a brand new baby?
Yeah.
In the sidecar.
I didn't want a car, man.
I didn't want to take a car test for cars.
Cars are,
cars are the last nail of,
kind of,
of conformity,
and the coffin, man,
the fuck's that?
And the domestic,
after domestic,
after domestic,
she's like,
you're getting a fucking test.
I'm sorry,
but we're having a car.
So, I just thought,
fuck it.
And I went out,
and the easiest thing was an auto.
So, I just took an auto test,
did a crash course,
passed it,
or out fine.
And I've never really,
sort of, like,
progressed since then.
So, every car I buy.
But then again,
most cars now,
I'm not really into vintage cars.
I think driving a DB5,
having been them,
is like,
Are you into vintage watches?
Yeah.
But,
vintage watch does the same jobs.
There's nothing that a vintage watch doesn't do
that a modern watch does.
There's plenty that a modern car does
that a vintage watch does.
But when you talked about values
on where you,
you're not playing to this
new game of new values,
new cars,
new watches,
new things,
you don't have that same opinion in cars
than what you do watches.
Well,
so hang on.
So,
well, let's take the cars, right?
Let's take the
the 599 GTO.
I think I bought that more or less
for less price when I bought it.
In,
in 16 years ago, whatever.
And I kind of thought,
well, that's probably you're right.
So I don't really get involved
in the whole kind of premium thing.
I paid
570 for the appareter,
which I know is an uplift
of what it's worth.
But I kind of took a view and went,
well, they're not making any more.
So I kind of took a view on that.
I mean, you had them when they were
new or newish,
but in today's world,
they looked like,
like as an analog car, like, you know,
they're very
compared to the new versions.
They're a dinosaur.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, so,
but also, but,
but if I get into a vintage car,
like I am
that Patek Philippe there on the
leather strap, right?
Right.
That's a really,
really cool rare watch, right?
Really cool.
I mean, it probably looks like
something you'd buy in a market
for a few hundred quid.
I get it, but
so that watch there
was
what's the model number for that?
It's 1463.
It's a Patek Philippe chronograph
in Stainless Steel for the 1950s.
Now, that actually
belonged to someone you may well
have done business with,
and that was Simon Kidston.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So what happened was
he loves vintage cars, doesn't he?
Yeah.
So when I started buying
and selling watches,
I saw that in a Repairers
and I said,
I want to buy that watch.
How much would that be?
You're straight to the money shot.
There's no foreplay, is there?
No, I told you.
I didn't know it's a fucking foreplay.
He started off earlier.
I'm going to do
a couple of warm-up questions.
He doesn't know what a warm-up question is.
When you sort of date a girl,
what is it?
We've been here two fucking hours.
It's been loads of warm-up.
If you went on a date,
would you sit down and go,
right, so we're having sex tonight then or not?
Is that literally what you would do?
Why the girl would drink, man?
So basically,
so that watch was upside down.
I haven't dated for a long time,
so I don't know what I would do.
So that watch was upside down
in pieces lower than the watchmaker's table.
And I remember,
and I thought,
please say that it's got a breaking number,
which is very rare.
And I turned it over and it did.
And I was like, my heart started beating.
I was like, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God.
And it's weird that at the time,
at the time,
my dad had died two weeks before this.
And there was a massive mistake in the will, right?
Which meant that basically I'd kind of been,
like,
done over as a big word,
but I'd been kind of two words.
I'd been sort of like, you know,
yeah, shafted a bit in the will
because of a mistake that had been made
and there wasn't a code that's still added.
So I saw this watch in a place
that I associated with my dad.
So he used to go and have lunch with my dad
and they'd be bended him in the corner.
I turned it over and I thought, oh, my God,
it's fucking a 1460.
If you'd break a number,
my heart started beating.
And I said that I want to buy that watch.
And he goes, what do you want to give me for it?
I said, I'll give you 15,000 quid for it.
And he said, what?
He said, it's only staying there still.
I said, I don't know if I want it.
So he called the owner.
And he only said, no, no, he won't sell it.
He said, well, he will sell it,
but only if you can buy the new MG that's just come out.
Now the new MG at the time, this is in 1996,
was like 17 and a half thousand quid
and I was like, what color?
Anyway, so I bought the watch.
So you paid 17 plus you bought him an MG?
No, no, no, I paid 17,
which is enough for him to get the car.
Oh, I see, yeah.
Right.
And then, but I literally,
I borrowed five grand from a loan shark
about at 10% a month,
which is how I started my business.
I sold everything else I had to buy this watch,
but I was going to flip it straight away with 20 grand.
And I went to meet the guy,
the bigger dealer than me, obviously,
and he said to me,
I was a kid at the time,
so I'm trying to, you know, hustle it.
And he said, you know, I like it.
And I could tell he's kicking the tire.
He said, but listen, mate, it's not quite,
I'll give you seven, I'll give you 19 for it.
And I thought, I'm going to pay it 10% a month, whatever,
because it shows me 1,500 quid.
And I thought, something within me said,
it was as if my dad,
that I'd found this watch in this place,
that I'd found this watch at the place
that I can associate my dad with saying to me,
son, hold, don't worry about it.
And I said, you know what, I'll keep it, but thanks.
It was like 19 and a half,
and then I said, all right, I'm good,
I'll hold, I'll hold.
Cut to about seven years later,
I'm at an auction.
And it's a break in the auction.
And I go to leave in Geneva
and this very elegantly dressed man,
very elegantly dressed man comes to me
and says, excuse me, you tomboy,
like James fucking Bondi was, do you know what I mean?
And I think he certainly thinks so anyway.
And he said, oh, can I take you out for lunch?
And I'm like, I was a bit weird, but yeah.
He said, I believe you own a Patek Philippe with my father.
Is that what the initials are on the back?
Yeah, and I'm like, Simon Kiston, he's like, yes.
He said to me, I'd like to buy the watch back.
And I said, oh, okay.
I said, the problem is,
you've got two problems behind this watch back.
One, I believe it to be an amazing investment.
And so you're going to need to pay me an uplift
over the trade value, so don't assert the trade.
And two, I have a kind of bond with my father with this watch
because I believe it's my father's way of saying,
you know what, you don't need to get a quarter
or anything about this.
I'll take care of you.
And it's like his kind of, you know,
it's like his gift to me whilst finding this watch.
He goes, I get that.
And he said, but I would like to pay you, you know,
350,000 pounds for the 17 and a half thousand pounds
that you gave me at the time.
And I said, yeah, that's not going to,
not going to do it for me, Simon.
Because you understand it's my father's watch as well.
I said, yeah, I do know, I'm really sorry,
but you kind of sold it and, you know, that's how it is.
And we've had this ongoing kind of like dialogue
throughout these last 30 years.
And in lockdown, he called me.
He said, let's do a deal on the watch.
This is Simon Kirsten who, I think,
prior to the Mercedes had the world record for a,
for a, no, he set the world record for a car,
then he would that Mercedes.
As an auctioneer.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, as an auctioneer.
Now this watch is important because, right,
historically, his father and his family,
they're like English aristocracy,
Cath Kidston, his uncle was Glenn Kidston,
who won Le Mans in a Bentley six.
You know, these were like,
Part of the Bentley boys.
They were the Bentley boys.
This family, that family watch, right, is important.
Now, another thing that's very important
in watches today is the condition of them.
It doesn't matter if they're scratched
and fucked up like that is.
What matters is, have they been polished
and is the dial original?
There is not a better example of that
watching the market.
It has never been polished.
Yeah, it's got a dent in the back.
Yeah, it's got scratches,
but it's never been touched.
It's like the Holy Grail, right?
So he calls me up in lockdown
and he says, Tom, I really want my dad's watch back.
And I'm like, I get it.
I get it.
And he goes, what do you want for it?
And I said, look, I think the watch is probably worth
three quarts and multiple.
But I just don't really want to sell it, man.
He goes, you like a car.
And I said, not really.
And he goes, well, you do.
I said, yeah, but not your cars.
Your cars are sort of posh.
You know, you rather clutch, don't you?
And he said, I'd like to give you an absolutely pristine,
just restored, DB6 convertible,
rebuilt by Aston Workshops.
And I'm thinking probably worth around six at the time.
And I was like, yes, that's not going to do it.
And he said, well, think about it.
And I called him back and I said, look,
and I felt bad, man.
Like I've got my dad's watch, right?
It's a two and a half round watch.
You couldn't give me 10 mil for that watch.
My fucking dad's watch, man.
I give you that.
I give you my soul.
Do you know what I mean?
Simon was younger.
He was whatever.
I guess, you know, he needed the money.
You want the MG, do you know what I mean?
So I said, I'll tell you what you can do, right?
You can give me 50,000 quid in the car.
Okay.
There's no offers.
There's no 45.
So you were willing to play ball with it?
I felt bad, man.
And I get it.
I would feel obliged to want to sell anyone.
Exactly.
Their father's watch.
Exactly.
And so we did a 50 grand and I had to call a bank at that time
to open the safety deposit for me, et cetera.
48 hours notice because it was fucking locked down, right?
And I thought it was a moment.
Oh, so you've agreed the deal?
Yeah.
Oh, you've agreed the deal?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
The car plus 50 grand.
Correct, right.
I called him back and I said, well,
also here's the watch.
He goes, great.
I said, here's my account number.
And he goes, how do you mean?
I said, well, for the 50 grand, he goes, yeah, no,
I'm not going to give you the 50 grand.
And I said, how do you mean?
He goes, I've changed my mind.
And I said, but we've done a deal for 50 grand.
And the guy goes, yeah, but I'm not going to do it.
The car's enough.
Take any emotional attachment away from that watch.
That watch used to be Joe blogs, for example.
What is that watch worth today in the market?
I would say that with all the hype of it being a Bentley boys
watch, with the hype of who his dad was, all that kind of stuff,
the condition it's in probably, I would expect that to go for
Overmilk.
Okay.
So he had a good deal at the time.
That's a great deal, man.
That's taken away the emotional attachment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Strange.
People are funny people.
Yeah.
Is that sort of stuff happening?
And I'm really happy now.
Because you still got it?
Cause I don't have to sell the watch.
So would you sell me the watch for 650 grand?
No.
I might call Simon and try and have a deal with the car.
Good shout.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Actually, do you know what happened?
Tricky, you, tricky fucker, David.
When the deal didn't come off.
David still bought the car.
Of course.
I knew that was going to happen.
He's got a great nickname too.
I shouldn't say this, right?
He's got a great nickname in the trade to
Who's this, David?
Simon Kissner.
Simon.
Yeah.
Cause he does like his club, right?
I mean, you see him at Goodwin in the morning.
It's a different outfit to you after the ect.
So apparently his nickname is Lady Gaga.
Sorry.
Just what I've heard.
Sorry, is that?
Oh, sorry.
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Tom, what's a better investment, watches or cars, pound for pound?
I'm not massively experienced with kind of you know
what the car market has done the last 30 years
but I can tell you that you know
getting times a hundred of your money
buying a watch in the late 80s has happened.
I don't know if that's happened with...
No, it's not, you know, times twenty maybe?
Carl, that is the right answer.
By watches.
So you've got watches in your collection
that have gone up times a hundred.
Sadly, I'm not that clever
but if you bought a Daytona in the early
sort of you know in the early 90s, late 80s
certain Daytonas, certain Pateks,
even certain APs, yeah.
Hundred X? Yeah.
Ten thousand percent.
Listen to this, I remember buying a
a three seven hundred Nautilus
for nine hundred pounds
and had boxed papers the whole lot
and a sold watch for like 125,000 quid
when they were kind of hosier.
And what was the time difference between that period?
You mean from the buy to the sell?
25 years.
I mean that is pretty much ten thousand percent
like you said, isn't it?
But as a dealer, this is what I struggle with.
As a dealer, I'm a trader, so...
I get you, when to hold or when to...
But I never, like with watches,
watches are my personal passion.
So I never look at a watch to buy and to sell.
I look at something that I like
and if I like it, I buy it.
It doesn't matter if it's a lady's watch.
It doesn't matter if it's a lady's
or if it's a natural calendar moon face.
All right, there you go.
So like, I buy something and I keep it,
but with cars, yes, I'll buy a car that I'll think
in the next five years, I think they're going to go
to the moon, they're going to rock it.
In car terminology, that means double in price,
for instance.
And I'll just sell it after three weeks for profit
and move on and try and buy another one.
Because you've seen the downside as well as the upside.
Yeah, you can think and your experience
can tell you a certain thing,
but you never know what's around the corner.
You never know what's going to happen.
If I've got a million pounds invested in a car
and I think in five years it could be worth two,
it could also be worth 500 grand.
So that always told me,
if you make profit, you won't go skint.
That says, you see, to me,
that you're much more of a secure person within yourself than I am.
Why is that?
Because if you're buying something and selling it
and you don't really give a shit that three years later
that you could have doubled your money, whatever,
just onto the next,
for the same reason that you just buy watches
because you like them and you don't care about
the kind of investment potential,
I'm not blowing smoke up your arse.
I don't mean this.
It just means that you're kind of like more content yourself
and you know, easy come, easy kind of go.
But for me, right, if I,
and maybe the double-edged sword of this is that, you know,
I'm relatively successful in my field like you are.
Also, that's what counts, that's what I'm about to say,
but anyway, that if I get something wrong,
especially if I have a feeling that something's going to happen
and I just go fuck it, I just sell it short
and just take the profit,
I feel terrible two years later.
I hang onto that shit, man.
What, so if you've seen it gone through the roof...
And I had a feeling that, and I had a feeling that am I?
Yeah, yeah, I do.
You beat yourself up.
Yeah.
I have, I don't really have any feeling like that.
I kind of, in a way,
I like the fact that I would sell someone a car
and 12 months later it's worth 100 grand more
and that's just repeat business for me.
No, no, no, I get that.
No, no, I get that.
But I totally get that, of course.
There's nothing better than buying a watch back
from Stonyford Profit
because it makes the whole wheel turn, right?
These are fucking things like treble.
I'll tell you an example, right?
I sold, right?
And FPZone, we're talking about just now, right?
And FPZone Octochronograph, right?
The thing kept on going back to them,
kept on going back to them, okay?
And I sold it to a client of mine,
to one of the few female collecting clients
I've got actually that doesn't like, you know,
those watchers actually like, you know what I mean,
fellow watchers are just a joke, huh?
And they bought it off me for like 30,
I think, no, what if it was 28 grand,
or 29 grand cost me like 23 or something?
I bought it back from them for 36
and couldn't give it away.
Had it on, I think, Krono for like a year and a half, whatever.
Finally, two people called me about it within,
within like three days.
And I thought, hmm, unusual.
What's that in here?
And I had a lot of other shit going on, whatever.
And I, the person just, they're trying to go shit.
And I was like, no, and they just bought it on Krono.
I thought, fuck it, they don't have it.
For like, I think it was like 42 or 43 grand.
That was approximately,
I'm going to say four and a half years ago, right?
Two months ago, went for one million and 50,000.
No way.
That would, that would make me feel a little bit.
That would, yeah.
I'd want a fucking Christmas car.
So I get the fact that it's great when we go and give someone like,
you know, like a 20, 30% profit or a 40% profit.
But when it's like that, it's like, you know, hey, mate,
can I buy that watch back from you for like, you know, like,
sort of 1.1 to go and get 50 grand profit
when they just had a meal out of it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And how does, because, you know, like you've just said,
the vast extremes in value, they're way more than cars.
You know, you're not going to buy a car for 40 grand
and sell it for 1.2.
I mean, that's just, they're just not going to happen.
Over a 50 year time period, maybe, but you know,
it's not going to happen.
Why, why is that watch that was a 28 grand watch?
Why is it worth that money?
You know, there's got to be a reason.
Rarity.
And you've got to bear in mind.
But it was rare before at 38.
Yeah, but hang on, but the brand wasn't so hot.
Right.
So rarity, unfortunately, doesn't always mean a big price.
Yeah.
So I think what Jaune has done is because he created
this sort of amazing movement, this resonance,
which kind of in shorthand one kind of movement
sort of sort of regulates the other.
It's in the same watch that off the back of that,
off the back of this amazing complication,
which, you know, belongs amongst the accolades
of people like Breguet who invented the tourbillon
and you know, all these sort of master watchmakers.
Enough people have got, they make the perfect amount
for dealers to get behind and push and buy up and push
and buy up and push to create the market.
And then with social media and the rest of it,
everybody gets involved and this becomes this sort of like
farore.
Do you know what I mean?
There is a larger mark.
There is a large, I think, part of watches.
And I think most things are, et cetera,
that is the emperor's new clothes.
Do you know what I mean?
Like what is reality and what is, you know,
the smoke in the mirrors?
I'm like this with FP Jaune at the minute.
You know, literally, I've always known of the brand,
but it's never been on my radar to even look at them twice
because I don't really like the way they look.
Can I ask you, why don't you like the way they look?
I don't like the shape of them.
I think it depends, though, on the model, doesn't it?
Yeah, I mean, actually, I...
I don't know, there's the typical...
I like the look of them.
I think the slibness of them, I quite like them.
I find them somewhat soulless.
They don't speak to me.
They're a bit, almost, even though they're not German,
they're a bit sort of Germanic looking, a bit like...
a bit like Langenzoner.
A bit like... No, no, I don't mind.
A bit like Langenzoner.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
They're just like, they're amazing watches,
incredibly made.
Their chronograph is just a work of art.
They don't speak to me.
They don't have the personality of Rolex or...
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
I think that's sort of, that's...
About what I do think about FP Jaune, though,
or what I do think about many brands,
is what I can't understand,
or what I will seldomly, seldomly get involved in,
unless it's like a real kind of just, you know, flip,
is modern premium watches.
To me, if I'm buying an FP Jaune, right,
I want to buy an early Jaune,
but I know they ain't making any more of,
because at least there's got something about it.
It's the history of the brand, whatever the brand's going to do,
if it is going to carry on climbing,
then I know I've got a bit of history.
If I'm paying a double premium for a watch
that they make today, et cetera,
I'm like, man, they control that.
That game really pisses me off.
I don't understand it.
If you're a collector, they control it.
So you're really putting yourself in their hands,
but if you're buying something that they don't make any more,
at least you're buying something that there's a finite amount of,
I think.
And probably at more like its real value,
because when you add all these premiums on,
you don't know what its real value is,
because all these premiums just froth on the top,
which could be nothing.
Absolutely.
With a car, it takes a car,
like a special car,
five to ten years
to really know what the market value is of the car.
For instance, a Ferrari SP3 Daytona.
It's a 1.7 million pound car list.
That car today is six million pounds.
I can't go and get you one at six pounds.
When did it come out?
18 months ago.
So is it just hype?
Is it just, is that the real value?
I think after five, seven, eight, ten years,
you look at it and go, right, they're now six million quid,
and they are six million quid.
At the minute, you just, you know, it's a dangerous game.
You're buying something for 300% more
than what the list price was.
And is it just because some guy wants a new thing right now,
and that's the premium they're paying to get it right now?
Do you buy things like that and hold them?
I hold nothing.
You hold nothing, really?
Only my personal cars.
And once again, it's only because I look at something,
I'll kind of look at it differently in my personal cars.
I think, I think they're undervalued and I like it.
If I thought something was undervalued,
but I didn't like it, I would never buy it for myself,
as undervalued as it is,
because I just wouldn't get the use out of it.
Can you enjoy a car if you've bought it
under that sort of umbrella of kind of thought
that you think is good value?
And then you subsequently find out
in a relatively short time that you've overpaid for it
and it's dipped in value.
Do you still get the same amount of enjoyment
out of driving that car?
If it's a personal car, then yeah.
You don't care?
Yeah.
I actually, the opposite, I can't get the enjoyment out of.
I really enjoyed my Bugatti when I paid 650,000 for it.
I used to use it every day, every single day.
When it got to 1.2 million,
I didn't need to take it to the gym anymore.
You think, do I need to go there
in a 1.2 million pound car?
Not really.
So you use it less, so you enjoy it less.
I'm totally with you.
I get it.
But I really enjoyed it.
Not that I didn't care,
but I thought the car's never going to be worth less
in 650,000.
There's many miles I want to do.
It'll always be worth that money.
So just enjoy it.
I used to, I don't have great advertisement for watches.
I don't wear watches anymore because I can't really.
But I can remember diving off a boat in the Caribbean
in France, wearing a 6270 diamond Daytona
and everybody at the time.
What's a 6270?
A 6270 is a vintage 1980s Daytona
with a diamond baguette bezel and a pavé dial.
And this particular one was made for the Saltenau Vermont.
So a rear watch in its own right.
This is like the sort of the prototype or GTO version of it,
if you like.
I used to dive off a boat in it.
And one of my greatest pleasures in life,
that's how fucking sad I am, right,
was sort of swimming in kind of like a cool sports watch.
I used to love it, especially a diamond vintage sports watch.
I just loved it, you know what I mean?
Because I can hear people thinking,
I fucking know you used to get a life.
What about sex?
What about all that stuff?
I mean, a couple counter.
I'm sure.
And when I bought that watch, everybody said,
make this fucking mad.
Well, you've been a diamond watch,
but you can't sell diamonds at the time.
This is back in the sort of the 90s.
That watch turned into a,
I think Jay-Z ends it now,
like a four and a half million pound watch, right?
So, you know, I wouldn't be diving off a boat enjoying that watch.
No, you can't enjoy it.
So, you know what I mean?
Same kind of thing.
You can't enjoy it.
You can't enjoy it.
So back to your point about,
if you let a watch go and it goes up wildly in value,
you just feel insecure about that and feel shit.
Do you then therefore?
I don't feel insecure.
It's not that.
What I'm saying is that if,
if of course, listen,
if I sold a watch a while ago for,
you know, if I like,
and I'm a couple of mil,
and in five years it's gone up to three and a half, four, fine.
I'm talking about,
like with the FP Jaune,
if like you sell something
and then suddenly bang, it flies.
And it kind of, you know,
sort of like goes up by 10 times.
Yeah.
I feel like a bit of a wallet.
My company name is Watch Guru.
I'm actually taking the trading standards.
Sure.
Okay.
So based on that then,
do you hold quite a lot of your watches
rather than turn them over?
What I tend to do is I tend to hold stuff
if I know that it hasn't got much of a downside.
So my only risk really is the sort of interest
that I might be losing
if I invested it in whatever.
But I certainly won't hold frothy watches.
I won't hold stuff that's sort of like, you know,
near retail or premium again,
because I know that the company's got control over it.
Oh, in other words,
that premium could go very quickly in your left.
Absolutely.
With a loss.
Yeah.
I mean, I had a deal recently, right?
I'm like, coolest deals I've ever done.
I'm sure it kind of pales into significance
with the kind of stuff you do call,
but it was like a guy that asked me about his watch collection.
He kind of heard who I was and came to me.
He took me to his office
and he had a list of like 77 watches.
55 patex, a lot of modern patex, a lot of other stuff.
He said, what do you think?
I said, what do you mean?
What do I think?
And he said, well, what do you think about my collection?
I thought, oh, I said, you know what?
I think it's what you buy if you have a lot of money.
He went, oh, let me sit down.
He said, so not very discerning.
I'm like, well, not massively,
but I get why you've kind of bought them.
I guess you're friends with a particular retailer
and he goes, yeah, yeah,
because you were cool every two days.
And he goes, yeah.
And I said, okay, I said, well, let's take these seven here.
Why don't you just buy like one proper one, one old school one?
And those seven.
And he consolidated them all into seven,
seven or eight watches, right?
I'm talking about like a sort of three,
three and a half million pound deal.
And I didn't like taking this stuff
because it was modern,
what I call kind of frothy kind of stuff.
And it was a weekend.
It was like a Thursday or something.
I thought, right, I'll get some Monday mornings
to start like trading all the stuff out.
And by Monday, like four days of stuff had moved.
And I thought, what's going on here?
And I thought, well, hold up a minute, have a look.
And this is just like around the COVID time, right?
And stuff just went up and went up and went up.
And I was like, what is that thing here?
And the watches I took literally sort of went up by like 70%
unbelievable.
And of course, do you know what that thing about, you know,
knowing when to fold them and when to hold them, right?
Greedy bollocks here.
It was like, this is lovely.
I've never experienced this before, right?
So I started piecing a few out.
And then of course,
I got like, I don't know, maybe like 20% of them left.
So I did okay, but you know,
and that's the thing I can't stand the volatility
of sort of like all the premium.
COVID and the watch market was crazy.
I'm still scared from that.
I sold a load of my collection at the worst time.
Yeah, I get it.
Right before the hockey stick curve.
The P116 that my sort of pros and bent on the outside.
DK had that.
And it was at a time when everybody was panicking.
I mean, I was every engineering.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, had that.
And they had it up for like a sort of pretty big price.
How much?
Pretty big price.
I think it was up at like 430 grand.
And I was saying, and I saw because of my mother said,
Hey, you know, how's it going?
Like a fucking great day.
It was just when it would all hit and everybody's like, oh my God,
I was like, I was fucked.
There was no way I was offloading my stock for it.
I got that.
It's just too much of the stuff, right?
So I was just like taking it on the chin going this and
the ride, whatever happens, happens kind of thing.
And that is a bit of my astute.
Having seen all kinds of life, having been a junkie as a kid
and being homeless, whatever, like it's all a fucking
Bruce Lee bonus to me.
You come sit here with this back drop by this pool and stuff.
It's fucking ridiculous.
Right.
So it's just,
We had wild days were around here a minute ago.
Yeah.
It was one just there.
Not if the dog had seen it.
I wouldn't.
And so yeah, I just thought, you know what?
Listen, what fucking happens happens.
But I saw that I wanted to create a Bentley.
Okay.
I wanted to create a sort of a racing Bentley.
In fact, I even talked to Hoffman's about it.
I love the continental T.
I love the continental T because it's the first car
that ever spiked my interest in cars.
And I wanted to create a sort of racing version of one.
And I got quotes from people and they were like,
Oh, he's going to like 250 grand or 200 grand
to do the stuff I wanted to do.
And I was like, Oh, forget that.
Fuck it.
And suddenly I saw this car at DK.
And I was like,
But the car that I wanted to make already exists
and it was made by Bentley.
I was like,
What?
So I called him up and in lockdown and said,
Yeah, we want 430 feet.
I'm like, Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Well, you know, good luck with your stock band.
You know what I mean?
He goes, Yeah, tell us about it.
I said, Do you want to give us a bit?
And I was like, No, don't worry.
You know, give us a bit because it's not owned by us.
We got an app pro.
And I was like, All right.
A quarter of a meal.
I'm like, Cheers, mate.
You know what I mean?
Fucking call me back.
I said, Listen, you know,
we're taking a couple of cars off the guy.
You can give us two.
So anyway, so like I had a bit of a dance
and did the deals.
That's one of the positive things that happened.
So you still have that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Out there.
We can have a look at that.
It's the only car that I wouldn't sell.
Okay.
So you gave 260 for that.
And I sold it straight away.
Yeah.
How much?
Enough.
But I, but I, but you know what?
I have this.
I don't know if you feel like,
But then you got it back.
Yeah.
So I, I don't know about you,
but I buy and sell a lot of my stuff back.
Like you have to client.
Did you do that a lot?
Yeah.
I mean, I would say God 70% of my business is repeat business.
He saw me and 9-11 and then I sold it back to you.
And then someone messaged me saying,
actually in the comments on our show saying,
Rob, I've got your 9-11.
Oh, really?
But Carl sold you.
So he's someone in the,
I sold it for a fortune as well.
Yeah.
Of course she did.
But that, you know what?
I would say the same thing.
I would say 70, 75% of my business is a repeat business.
So one more chicken set.
And without, without,
without blowing smoke up each other's asses here.
What that says is that you do decent business, right?
Yeah.
Because to be able to buy it.
You could sell 3, 5, even more times.
Oh yeah.
I think my record is something like eight or something.
You've sold the same watch eight times.
Yeah.
At least.
What about you?
I've got cars in stock at the minute that are not necessarily old.
Well, one of them is quite old.
It's a Lamborghini Countach,
which I, I've owned for longer over the last five years
and the last three owners.
And then I mean,
so what's the longest,
the most amount of time you've sold up?
I wouldn't say eight,
but I would say six.
Yeah.
All right.
And you've owned that car longer than anywhere else you've owned it.
Well, I worked out,
I worked out over the last five years.
The first time I bought the car,
I think I paid 300 and low 300s,
sold it for mid 300s,
bought it back for low 400s,
sold it for mid 400s.
And now I'm selling it for 650.
And everyone's,
everyone's had a good time.
Lovely.
Lovely.
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not only is our available stock second to none in the UK,
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You've referenced a couple of times drugs.
What's your story?
Well, I mean, I know it,
but obviously just for everyone else,
what's, you know, going back,
you didn't have it easy growing up, did you?
No, I guess.
So, no.
So, I mean,
I didn't have it easy growing up.
I wasn't fucking born in kind of, you know,
war torn fucking the Syria or whatever.
Do you know what I mean?
I'm going to sort of, you know,
literally say my life every day,
but I certainly was kind of like,
I think I lived in 18 different houses,
12 different schools,
but as time I was fucking 13,
I was sent away to live with different people, whatever.
And I think that...
So, it was just like,
your parents were just sending you away?
Yeah, my parents split up and like,
I'm not going to get into it,
but I've written a book, it comes out soon.
Okay.
It's in the book.
Which had a copy.
But one of the things that got me by, right, was...
Dealing.
So, I lived in...
It is a drug.
Dealing is a drug.
Absolutely.
And then I got sent away to Bora Bora,
to live with my old man,
who was writing a film out there.
And, you know,
Los Angeles and Hollywood,
to Bora Bora is fucking big,
and I'm talking like grass huts,
like a big whatever.
Then I became addicted to mangoes.
I've never had mangoes before, right.
But the fruit.
Yeah, man.
Honestly, man.
I don't think that class is as an addiction though.
No, you've just seen the way I went through it.
Mango head.
You got...
Oh, don't talk to him.
He's off his head on mango.
Listen.
I'm not saying...
It does sound like some kind of New Street drug, doesn't it?
I'm not saying...
Listen.
But listen, right?
But we all buy...
Listen.
We buy watches, right?
We buy cars.
They don't make you high,
but you get addicted to them.
I'd never tasted anything like it in my life.
I was just like,
fuck being mangoed.
That's where it's at now, right?
I had to have something to listen to.
You can't make me feel all right.
So...
And I had my first sort of like crush on a woman, right?
And it was Dino de Laurentiis' daughter
called Raphael de Laurentiis, right?
And I was like 10, 11,
and she was sort of 16,
so nothing was going to fucking happen plainly.
But I was just gone, right?
And I tattooed her name into my...
her initials into my arm,
but I thought her initials were RT Raphael de Laurentiis.
It was RT, right?
And I had a needle, right?
And I had Indian ink, and I did this to my arm, right?
How old were you when this was happening?
11.
11?
Just off your tits on mango at the time.
Yeah, yeah.
Fucking like flying, mate.
You know what I mean?
Sugar rush, baby.
Right?
But the problem was that I couldn't get the best mangoes, right?
Because the mangoes were picked very early in the morning
and the mango trees that were wild,
you couldn't get them.
It was hard to get good mango, right?
It was hard to get good uncut mango.
I just put in connoisseur on mango.
I tattooed her name into my arm,
and I went to school, which was literally a French-speaking,
an island-speaking French,
grass hut in the middle of this kind of island.
No rows, just dirt tracks.
And a couple of kids were like pointing to my arm.
And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, whatever.
I'm like, oh, you want one?
And I'm like, here's an idea.
Mangoes, my book's called Mangoes for Tattoos, right?
So I set up a little business.
I set up a little business in break times,
giving kids tattoos for mangoes, right?
Now, let's ignore the fact that the mangoes, right,
that I thought they were the fucking,
I thought they were solid gold, man.
I thought everybody's going to want to nick my mangoes.
So I'd wait until they went into class, right,
and I'd scurry off and I'd hide the mangoes, right?
Ignoring the fact that they were going rotten
faster than I could fucking get them or bury them.
I had maps of mangoes everywhere, right?
Obviously, right?
I don't believe this story.
I promise you.
I've promised you, right?
And I recently went back to Bora Bora
to write an episode of my book
in the sort of the hut that I lived in with my dad.
It was really cathartic, actually, but anyway.
So, where was I?
Oh, yeah.
So I set up a little business tattooing kids
in break time for mangoes, and I must have like,
I don't know, I must have rough estimate,
I must have maimed about 15 kids, right?
And on the day, about three days later,
two kids came in and their fucking arms
had swelled up on the elephant there.
I mean, like, set this in like, honestly, like balloons.
Like Tahitian parents freaking out, whatever.
And my dad took me out for a meal that night
and said, listen, I kind of thought it could work out here for you.
Just not so sure.
And so I was on a fucking flight back to England the next day
to go and live with some random woman I'd never met before.
Yeah.
Oh, shit.
And then mangoes for tattoos.
And then when did you, when did mangoes become drugs?
Well, they'd already become drugs
because I had to substitute the mangoes for weed rember.
Yeah.
We transgressed to sort of, well, sorry,
we'd progressed, transgressed, I guess,
more appropriate word, to,
and then heroin by the time I was sort of 15.
Shit.
To find myself sort of, you know, homeless.
At 15.
I sit at home with my parents.
A girlfriend wrote a list of my parents and said, listen,
we know that your son is a,
a next girlfriend of mine is a sort of, you know,
a bit of a kind of wild kid, whatever.
But you now need to know that he's actually
killing himself on intravenous heroin.
And you were 15?
16.
And they kicked me out.
Your parents?
Yeah.
They kicked me out.
I said, you know what, that's not okay for us.
And how'd you get off it?
How'd you get clean?
The only reason that someone gets clean or sober,
I think, is due to consequences, right?
When you've reached a point whereby you've genuinely had enough,
which takes the ingredients to that, is consequences.
That's when I think you come to a place
whereby you want to stop.
I don't think that stopping anything in life is,
is difficult.
The difficult part is getting to the place
where you want to stop enough,
where you're ready to do what it takes, right?
And I think because my parents kicked me out at 16,
I didn't have the capabilities of taking care of myself
as much as, as well as an adult does.
I kind of reached that point of spiritual bankruptcy much sooner
that then enabled me to go, you know what, I've had enough.
And it ended up with me like, you know,
literally heroin wasn't enough.
I'd have to take sleeping pills as well just to pass out
because just being high wasn't enough for me.
You know, I was fucked.
And I think the fact that I went to Ramond
and just was homeless and just this crash course
within like sort of, you know, two years from 16 to 18
kind of got me to that, to that place really.
And in fact, we talk about dealing
and the love of dealing.
My happiest day is when I'm taking a newcomer to a meeting.
I go to AA and NA 12 step program.
And I still go because remember for me,
I think for most addicts and alcoholics,
you know, the actual substance is but a symptom.
That's 1% of it.
99% of it is why I do it.
And I do it because I'm a fucking nutter.
Do you know what I mean?
And unless I kind of look at why I do it,
then either if I don't relapse,
which I haven't done now in 39 years,
I'm 39 years cleaning the sober,
which is why I've got the numbers on my cards.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
You know, unless I kind of have a maintenance script, right,
which is my meetings.
I go to a meeting when I sit down
and I have no idea how I'm feeling.
No idea.
I sit there for 15 minutes.
I decompress.
Suddenly I know how I'm feeling.
Do you know what I mean?
So it's like a sort of...
It's like a kind of like a...
I sort of look as addicts and alcoholics
since we're on a car program here.
Although it's more motorcycles, I guess.
I look at addicts and alcoholics as two-stroke engines.
You know?
The piston goes up and down twice
for every once and a fourth stroke.
And you have to carefully mix the petrol with the oil
for it to run okay.
And they're much more performative,
but they fuck up a lot more.
Do you know what I mean?
So I'm a two-stroke engine that needs a lot of maintenance.
That's how I kind of look at it.
It's an analogy.
And I think that most civilians,
I call them civilians, people that aren't addicts and alcoholics,
are sort of like, you know, four-stroke engines,
which is...
must be very fucking lovely.
Like, I can't...
I don't know about you, Carl,
but can you lay on a beach, like, and get a bit of sun?
I can if I have my phone with me.
So now you can't?
Yeah, doing a deal with me.
Because you need your phone.
Now, I mean, without your phone,
can you just lay there and, like, suck up some rays?
Or are you going to be doing something?
No, no, no.
Yeah, exactly.
It's because we're two-strokes, right?
I actually...
I had this conversation recently.
I was away with my wife and the kids.
And...
You leave it me out of this.
It's just...
We know you're a two-stroke.
I just didn't want to say it.
And my wife was going on to me about,
every time I look at you,
you know, you're on the phone.
I'm like, I can't enjoy my holiday
unless I can do some work.
I'm the same.
Like, I can't enjoy my holiday.
But that's because we're not
really enjoying the holiday, right?
Yeah, the work is escapism from the holiday.
Because if you just go on holiday,
you have to sit along with all your thoughts
doing nothing, being bored.
I mean, that's surely the worst place, isn't it?
I could talk myself into a bad mood if I do.
I could talk myself into a bad mood.
Like, I'm just...
Oh, yeah.
I fucking hate today.
Why?
Do you know why?
So have you ever thought, like,
what would it be like for you
to just sit there for an hour
doing nothing?
Would that be scary for you?
It would be something that we'll
never find out, I suppose.
I just can't do it.
I think I've probably got ADHD or something.
But you see, ultimately,
I think that is because, though,
I think that ultimately, life is fair, right?
So I think that,
whilst you might be high-achieving,
I might be high-achieving, let's say,
in relative terms, in the field that I'm in.
I mean, in reality, what do I do?
I feed off the scraps
that fall off the table of the truly wealthy, right?
Their second-hand watches
and their pre-owned watches, right?
But I think that,
in our high-achieving, let's say,
the cost to that
is that we don't really know serenity, right?
We don't really know how it is just to be
because we're high-achievers.
And the thing that makes us high-achieve
is that we're fucking running from some kind of trauma,
some kind of pain, some kind of, like,
unhappiness, whatever it is, do you know what I mean?
So I think that ultimately,
in a way, life is fair,
because if you're not running,
you don't need to run
and you're a full-stroke engine,
you can just be.
It must be quite nice just to be, man.
Because we call human beings
not human doings, right?
Yeah, but those that I feel that myself,
if I don't, I've not had a day of probably 15 years.
I know that because you pop up
on my Insta feed every fucking hour.
Five o'clock in the morning.
I mean, seriously.
Who hates Kiyostama at 5am?
I do.
Yeah, I do.
I thought my first thought is,
everyone leave the UK,
Kiyostama's a whatever.
Do you know what I mean?
And I agree with it.
I'm thinking, pfft, ebos, you know.
He's not one this morning.
Anyway, I think it's easy for us
to romantically look at the human beings
as human doings.
It must be lovely to be like that.
But they're also looking in the other way.
Oh, sure.
Sitting there thinking.
The grass is always greener.
Yeah, I should be doing more.
Why aren't I doing more?
I think if you asked more people
what they would rather be like,
it would be the full-stroke engine.
I think, I think people...
Me too.
I would.
I wouldn't.
I would.
Because...
But do you really...
Hang on a minute, right?
The things that you accumulate,
the things that we accumulate, right?
Do they really make you happy?
I mean, I don't really give a shit anymore
about like, it's a chore.
But happiness isn't the purpose.
When people say, does it really make you happy?
It's like happiness is the purpose.
Happiness isn't the purpose.
Happiness is a fleeting emotion.
Yeah, sure.
But what I mean though is that...
No, but what I mean though is that the things that...
the two-stroke engines,
the things that we are driven to obtain,
which is the derivative of our deals and our whatever,
do we really enjoy the derivatives that much?
Are we just doing them?
Because that's what we do.
Whereas if you're a full-stroke engine,
you're enjoying life, man.
You're laying on the beach, man.
I think you're looking at it with roast into glasses.
Probably.
Because the four-stroke engineers who are loving life
on the beach, they're doing that twice a year,
and they're getting to debt on their credit cards
to afford that all of it.
Forget your energy laying on the beach.
Just being, man.
Not having to be on the phone.
Not having to be.
Not having to turn the phone off at five o'clock
because they've finished work.
There you go.
That's a better analogy.
There you go.
Like, I mean...
How lovely must that be?
And to be walking in the woods.
I'm on a dog walk, right?
And beautiful countryside round here.
I'm fucking going through my head about this deal on that
and whatever.
I'm not looking at the trees.
No.
I'm not...
The trees are annoying me at that point.
What are you fucking looking at?
Fucking tree.
Fucking no reception here.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah, no.
But, you know, I just...
And there is an...
There is apparently...
Apparently I've been recently learning that.
There is a medical thing for this, right?
Which is this...
Because it basically...
The phones and all that kind of stuff and all the kind of acts,
it really heightens our cortisol levels.
And it's the cortisol that makes us feel so kind of, you know, anxious,
etc.
So the whole thing is just a fucking cycle.
So I think what we come back to is that ultimately kind of life is fair.
So a full stroke engine doesn't have the capability of going as fast as us,
but it can just chug along.
You know what I mean?
You enjoyed the ride.
Taught us in the hair, maybe.
No, enjoyed the ride.
So did watches replace the drug addiction?
Did watches become an addiction?
I mean, I think that watches have given me like stepping stones,
a purpose by which I've been able to get a foothold and kind of like navigate my life.
I felt like a rapper then.
A rapper's car.
Don't let your son watch you do that.
No, I won't.
Dad!
Dad!
Dad!
Dad!
Dad!
Dad!
Dad!
Dad!
Definitely they've given me like a sort of a way by which to navigate my life
and to kind of be here, you know, in my 40th year of recovery, which is amazing.
But we can argue as to how much of a good thing that is.
I mean, you know, dealing in watches and getting houses and cars and toys and whatever for 40 years.
Is that really like a great asset to mankind?
I don't know.
I guess it stopped this junkie from using and stopped this junkie from taking taxpayer money from being banged up, maybe,
but I'm not quite sure how much of a service to mankind it's been, really.
Although I did start a charity called Steps to Recovery that integrates addicts from prison and society
and gives them free rehab, which is kind of cool, but yeah.
And you're the money that you make from your watches enables you to do that, if you time and freedom.
Absolutely, and it also feeds, you know, many of the people that probably shouldn't even be in the UK
in the first place for the tax I pay.
I mean, let's not get into that.
Tom, what's a bigger status symbol?
A 100-gram watch or a million-pound car?
Again, I'm really sorry, man, but you keep on asking me questions.
It depends on which car, which watch.
It really does, because to me, a status symbol is like knowledge, right?
It's like discernment.
To me, a status symbol isn't like, I can go and blow a million quid in a watch, fuck that, so can, you know, those of other people.
It's about discernment, so I'm really sorry.
I'm not trying to give you a...
No, no.
I'm not trying to be a difficult person, but I just...
It's also, I know people who would feel a hell of a lot more comfortable giving a million-pound for a watch
than what they would 100-gram for a car, because they're not into cars that much.
And vice versa, I know people who would pay half a million-pound for a car
would be like 50-gram for a watch, no chance.
So it depends on the personality as well, doesn't it, I suppose?
Absolutely.
I think that the watch, as Carl already kind of touched on, is going to be a much more accessible status symbol
being for other people, because you take your watch with you, you know, you can't drag your Ferrari into the pub with you,
do you know what I mean?
I've recently become friends with a young guy who, I've sold a few cars to him, we get on really well.
And he's got some wonderful cars.
You know, he's got a 2,000-mile UK-supplied SLR.
He's got a...
He bought a Ferrari Pista from me.
He's got some really, really cool Mercedes, 90s rare Mercedes.
And we were talking about watches.
And because we were out with another guy who's a friend who's also a watch dealer as well.
And I mean, they were talking about a...
God, it was something from 15 or 20 grand, like a Submariner or a Deepsea or a Dayton or something.
And bear in mind, this guy's definitely got one and a half million pounds with the cars, easily.
And he was like, pfft, I'm not giving that money for a watch.
Like, that's just ridiculous.
And I'm just like, but surely, because it's very rare to come across someone like that,
because normally, if you have a nice car, you have a nice watch.
And he just, he blew my mind a bit, because I was like,
that's the least you should be wearing to have the cars that you have.
It's a really interesting subject that, like, you know, what is the sort of equivalent value in a watch
pro rater to the car that you drive.
It's a really interesting subject that, I think.
Well, Paul Bailey was pretty much the same, wasn't he?
Yeah, he had a nice watch, like a steel Daytona or something,
but considering he's got, you know, I mean, we were in a room with,
must have been 50 million pounds with the cars,
and not a fraction of his collection.
You're not going to have to see mine, in fact, that.
And yeah, it's not about the size.
Yeah, so he just had a few Daytona's, didn't he?
And that was all he was bothered about.
This is interesting.
This is a, this is a, an AP, Audemars, PK, a concept.
I know nothing more is at Tourbillon.
Yes, the concepts were sort of tourbillons, and that is probably,
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that that is probably the most important
singular wristwatch that has been made in the last 25 years.
And why?
Okay, complications in wristwatches, such as you just touched on their tourbillons and stuff.
They are, they've always been fragile, minute repeaters, tourbillons, perpetual
candles, they kind of fragile because they got lots and lots of mechanics
and different levers and wheels, et cetera, that, you know, can, can get damaged.
So what a genius company did is they went, do you know what?
We're going to make complicated watches, but we're going to make them lightweight
and for sport, Richard Mill.
It's massive.
Yeah, it's big.
But Richard Mill were created, the brand was really created by a watchmaking duo
called Renae and Pappy, and Guillaume Pappy, or Renae Alvin Pappy.
They were guns for hire.
They created the minute repeater mechanism for the LBC Grand Complication.
They created lots and lots of things of different people, and they were bought by
out of my PK, and they were tasked with coming up with lightweight, durable
complications, game changer.
It's a bit like, I imagine, sort of carbon fiber chassis.
Okay, yeah, similar thing to that, right?
A mad Russian dealer, what's that to me and says, boss, just been off a
business watch.
Okay, I think that's fucking weird.
It's like half of a standard concept and half of the PC unique concept that they did
and I'm like, it's got different wheels and whatever.
So I said send me some photographs, and I have a very good relationship with AP.
I think that AP, I know that we've had our differences about AP UK, but AP the company
in Switzerland, I think are the best company in the world to deal with, I really do.
And they, and I know a guy that sort of runs a sort of museum near the archive
department, I said, listen, tell me about this watch.
So I take the numbers of the watch and I contact the museum and they say, no, this
watch doesn't marry up, doesn't tie up.
There's something weird about this watch.
And I'm like, okay, cool.
Thanks.
I find out the number is as a P number at the Bentley.
Meaning prototype.
He then emails me the next day.
And he says, hey Tom, I made a mistake about that watch.
He goes, you don't know that watch does tie up.
It's a prototype that we made.
I'm thinking, oh my God.
So I call up Murat and I say Murat, that watch.
He goes, oh, gone boss.
I'm like, no, no, it's not gone.
He goes, no, no, no, it's not gone.
And it's gone.
I couldn't get it.
I was like, fuck, the one that got away.
Oh my God, my God.
And I knew it was an important piece, right?
So it went and nothing.
Two years later, all roads lead to Rome.
Two years later, another dealer from Holland calls me and goes, Tom,
I might have a watch here for you.
Send me a picture of the watch.
And I'm like, oh.
And this is the only one?
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh, there she is.
How much is it?
And he goes, I want a quarter of a meal.
And I said, yeah, okay.
Bought the watch.
But the problem with the watch, okay,
is that AP also sent me a letter and email saying, listen, Tom,
doing some more research about this,
but we don't know how it left the factory.
I was just about to ask that question.
So hang on.
So I'm like, mm, now the story is, okay,
that Gaddafi bought the watch from AP.
That's a cool story.
So hang on.
So I'm like, mm, nice story.
But, you know, it can be fucking, you know, pigs can fly.
Yeah, it could be bollocks.
Yeah.
Right.
So I'm like, okay.
All right.
So I'm going to be Gaddafi, right?
And so I email them back, right?
Well, he does what?
And I email them back, right?
And I, I email them back and I say,
so are you saying the watch has stolen?
They're saying, no, we're not saying it's stolen.
We just don't know how it left the factory.
Because we don't know who sells stuff like that.
It's quite an important watch.
And I'm like, okay, thanks.
I called my lawyer.
My lawyer says, you haven't got legs down them.
And what do you mean?
He goes, well, they might be saying that now,
but if in a year and a half, two years time,
they suddenly decide actually now we do know,
and the watch was taken exactly like that.
But I'm thinking, but I've got an email saying that
they're not saying it's stolen.
He goes, yeah, but if they decide to say it is, it is.
And you also really, really, really, really,
really want this watch.
Right.
But I also know a potential upside of it.
Plus, I know it's a proto,
but they don't have the information on it.
It was really made in this configuration, et cetera.
So there's,
But most prototype things would be like that.
There'd be literally no information.
Yeah, exactly.
So I'm thinking there's two things, right?
One, the legitimacy of the watch,
even though it's in their records and archive,
they can't send me any pictures of it.
Two, is the watch, you know,
do I have legal title to it?
But I thought, you know what?
I'm going to go with it.
And I bought the watch.
For 250.
Yeah.
I started calling up everybody.
Everybody.
I knew the XAP CEO called him.
He said, you know what?
I remember something about the watch,
but I don't even remember time and ever.
Everybody, everybody,
I just couldn't get to the bottom of this watch, et cetera.
And then finally, someone said,
his Guilot Pappies,
who's the other half of our Pappies,
personal emails, send them an email.
See how you get on?
He's the person that designed the watch, right?
Send him the email.
Nothing, nothing, nothing.
Call a client of mine.
A client that has the apparel, right?
And I say, hey, listen, got this watch.
It's right up your strata,
but here's the situation with it, right?
I got an email from them saying,
it's not stolen,
but they don't know how to let the factory.
Lois says this and that, whatever.
And we start going back and forth about two weeks later.
I hadn't heard from Guilot, I thought, fuck it.
I just played tennis and I was running a bath.
And I know it's a lot of thought play.
And basically I,
and I'm texting backwards and forwards
and we're 10 grand away on the deal, okay?
About to get in the bath and my phone goes ping.
My phone goes ping.
And for somebody's, I think, you know what?
I've got one foot in the bath.
Ah, I'm going to get my phone, get my phone.
And it's an email from Guilot Pappie.
So quick as a flash, right?
Because I'm in the middle of this negotiation.
I WhatsApp my parents and say,
putting this deal at hold for right now.
So I can read this long email, right?
The email.
Hey, Tom, so nice to hear from you.
Like the stuff you did with Wishmore, et cetera, whatever.
I remember this watch well.
And I'm thinking, come on, baby.
Feed me.
And he says, you know,
this watch was a watch that I was desperate
for Audemars PK not to sell
because it was a functioning working prototype of mine.
But a gentleman was given a tour of our atelier
and just fell in love with the watch
and I guess was offered so much money
that they had to give him my functioning prototype.
That's your clarification, right?
There's my, there's my legitimacy of basically,
there's my title, right?
So I then say, okay.
So was this person
Gaddafi by chance?
And he says, Tom, I cannot give names out,
but I can say that it was a Middle Eastern gentleman
who took the watch and they can come home, baby.
Just give me his initials.
But then listen, but then the email goes on.
He goes, Tom, he goes,
you should be really proud to own this watch.
This watch that helped create the Richard Mill brand.
You've obviously still got this email laminated
putting a frame somewhere.
Gold frame.
Shall we go and have a look at some cars?
Yeah, cool.
All right, let's go.
Right, so your mission should you choose to accept it is
can you pair what I believe,
and it's a matter of opinion to a certain extent,
as long as your choice is right,
which watch you would put with which car
and that might be style, it might be class,
it might be whatever.
So try and put the associate watch with the associated car.
Okay, so here we have a Ferrari 599 GTO.
Correct.
We have a prototype Bentley P116,
which is a very one-off,
very one-off special car for many reasons.
We have a Ferrari 599 Speciale Aperta.
We have a Mercedes G500 convertible.
Right-hand drive.
Very rare.
Behind the prototype,
we actually have the road production continental tee.
And at the side of that,
we have a Rolls Royce Cullinan black badge.
I'm going to start off with the easiest one first.
Okay, go on.
I'm going to take the AP Royal Oak offshore.
The beast.
For the G-Wagon.
Spot on.
That's that watch.
Okay.
Okay, that's what I'm going to go with that.
I then I'm going to go the Richard Mille Le Mans.
I'm going to stereotype pair this watch with the Cullinan.
Okay.
All right.
I just think a lot of Rolls Royce Cullinan drivers have an RN.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
So now we get to the tricky part.
Okay.
Okay.
So I think I'm going the brigade.
What's the serial number on this, you know?
Or the model?
It's just a minute repeater.
Okay.
A minute repeater, brigade.
That's continental tee.
I get that.
That's continental.
That's like Sunday lunch.
I get that.
Continental tee.
That's where I'm going with that.
Now, I know what this is.
Not many people would.
This is a Submariner Comex.
But this was made for the divers.
And how many of these were made?
So that's the rarest version of a Comex.
And actually it was a gift watch rather than a dive watch.
But that for some reason makes it much more valuable because they made less of them.
They made in the sort of 60s of them.
It's a 1970s watch.
So I'm going to pair this with the Essayaperta.
And I'll tell you why.
Okay.
Okay.
Why is that if someone had this watch on, they think, oh, it's a cool watch.
He's got a vintage Submariner.
Okay.
If they see the 599 Aperta, they go, well, that's a cool car.
There's a Ferrari 599 outside.
You know.
Okay.
So the value of a Submariner, a stainless steel Submariner is 8 to 9, 10 grand.
The value of this would be?
That's a rare watch.
Sort of like in between the three and 400 grand.
Three or 400 grand.
The value of a 599 normal road car, 100 grand, 80 and 100 grand.
Okay.
The Aperta's a million plus.
Okay.
So that's why I would pair that watch.
It's kind of one of them.
If you know, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's what I'm going to do with that.
Okay.
The next two are quite awkward.
Because this is quite awkward.
But since it's a big bull brash thing, I'm going to go with the concept.
Both prototypes.
I agree.
Both prototypes.
Big brash in your face.
Get it.
Green.
Stainless steel.
Get it.
Titanium.
That goes with that.
And then it leaves me with this very...
Now, I don't necessarily think this goes incredibly well with that car.
But I think it goes best out of all the other cars that you have.
It's an understated...
The only thing I would say is we can't really call the GTO understate.
No.
It doesn't really go.
But every other one of them go.
Okay.
But I get it.
And you know what?
Here's...
How would you pair them?
Well, it's interesting.
You're more or less there.
And I'm sort of quite thankful after doing this test that you're not in my business.
Before they get into this business.
But I would have gone...
Because it's just so classy.
If you know, you know, I probably would have gone with the Patek with that.
And I think because of the sort of like the logo and the sort of like the stripe in the
GTO, I probably would have gone with the Komet.
It's like a sort of tuned up version of the kind of standard one.
Yeah.
Okay.
I get that.
And I think the others, you're kind of about spot on.
So that's the fact you probably won.
I'm going to change my business.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
About this episode
Tom Bolt moves between luxury watches and cars as status symbols, but keeps circling back to what feels authentic: taste, rarity, and personal attachment. He talks through wild trades, from taking houses and rare cars in part exchange to selling prototype Rolexes, while also reflecting on addiction recovery and how watches gave him structure. The episode blends collecting lore, market mania, and a candid look at why some objects become emotionally loaded while others stay just investments.
Original notes
Rob and Carl are joined by Tom Bolt to look at the intriguing world of luxury watches and cars, exploring their significance as status symbols and personal expressions.
Together they examine the emotional connections people have with their collections, discussing how both watches and cars can evoke different moods and feelings. They also touch on the investment potential of watches compared to cars, revealing how certain timepieces have dramatically increased in value over the years. It’s a fascinating look at the intersection of passion, obsession, and the luxury lifestyle.
Sponsors:
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BEST MOMENTS
"I love cars, but here's the truth... I haven't seen them in like a year."
"I don't think a normal person, what is classed as normal, I don't think they exist amongst collectors."
"It's not about the money. It's about the kind of the thrill of the game."
Sponsors:
➤ Money.School - To Make, Manage & Multiply More Money, join us at https://money.school/goldcars
➤ Tom Hartley Cars - http://www.tomhartleycars.com/
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Cars & Money
Rob Moore & Carl Hartley
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