Top 5 SUVs - Most Fun Under $50K, Craving Something Unique, Turning Derelict Cars Into Art | Episode 1,009

You know, we were just talking about

what the world really needs is uh more

ring records.

>> That's what the world needs.

>> That's all That's all we need. Actually,

there's nothing else. I didn't know

that.

>> Everything else is fine. We just need

more ring records.

>> We do.

>> I um I I'm not sure how to feel about

where we're starting on this podcast.

Talking about ring records, talking

about uh a new one, a new super fast one

that was set.

>> Another one.

>> Yes. Not by a sports car. That's key. By

a van.

>> By the van. The super van. The super van

4.2.

>> The transit van.

>> Yeah, that's cool. You know what I do

like about is that it's an homage to

Sabine with the transit.

>> Agreed. It is a total homage. Even

though this super van was built to go

>> get records at every racetrack, every

every place they can find. It's a 2,000

horsepower van.

>> The thing that I love about it is the

tribute and the fact that it is a van.

The thing that I don't like about it is

that if you think about it, every car

company could go build themselves a

specialty vehicle, van, car, doesn't

matter, and make it with 2,000

horsepower and go try to shatter ring

records. It doesn't have anything to do

with

>> production or what customers could buy

or or use or it's not connected to

reality. Whereas every other car on that

list, not every other, but a lot of

other cars are either production cars or

they're that seemingly has more meaning

than just a 2,000 horsepower van with

>> Yes.

>> everything.

>> We've been talking about production car

records because of course the the ZR1

and ZR1X and the GTD Mustang and, you

know, way up there in the alltime

production car records. This is

>> You're fast. I'm fast. This is a

bewinged weird all-wheel drive EV 2000

horsepower quote unquote transit van.

Doesn't look like a van anymore. It's

going around breaking all kinds of

records. Of course, it broke broke a

ring record. I agree with you that this

is interesting because of the Sabine

connection because of course, you know,

she famously drove a van on Top Gear and

chased a winged Viper and got under 10

minutes in a traditional

>> actual Transit van,

>> unmodified

>> with a stick,

>> stock transit van,

>> manual transmission. She did the whole

thing which was incel.

>> I think it just further doubles down,

triples down, quadruples down, I don't

know, on the fact that

>> EVs are going to just keep breaking top

speed records.

>> It's not even it's not even a surprise

anymore. If you really if you really

want a fast car, in fact, this is where

you and I don't normally talk about it.

We don't talk about it in terms of

YouTube drag races. Okay,

>> we don't drag race on our channel

because we know there are tons of

variables as to why that car won today.

And also, we don't have a really I mean,

some of the people that do a lot of drag

races have runways they rent for every

episode they do a drag race. Oh, yeah.

We don't have a runway that we rent.

We're not doing that. So, that doesn't

happen. But the other reality is the

fact that that after you drag race a

little bit, do it two or three times,

two or three polls in any car, pick your

car, you realize that's not actually

what makes driving fun. No, it doesn't

tell you. As you say, it doesn't tell

you anything about the car. The last

place car could be the great car.

>> Absolutely.

>> An Alpine A110 might come in last.

>> Fair. A Lotus Elise is not a drag race

car.

>> That might be dead last in many drag

race comparisons.

>> Miata's terrible in the drag race.

>> Told you nothing.

>> Yeah, for sure. So,

>> even if you have a drag race that the

lead car, the fastest car was the best.

>> Okay. Then why should any other car

manufacturer make cars?

>> I mean the reality is and here's why it

actually happens. A drag race is a

fantastic visual representation of one

is better than the other. It is easy to

film.

>> That's all it is.

>> Yes, it's easy to film and somebody with

no car knowledge or car interest can go,

well that one must be better.

>> So it is a great kind of lowest common

denominator, better or worse. But cars

are so much more nuanced than that. And

you know what's funny is we will get

comments all the time on YouTube and

elsewhere when we declare one car better

than another. Somebody will throw the

well but this car is faster stat. And my

my response is almost always if all

we're chasing is fastest in a straight

line. We should have all bought EVs

because that's the reality. Well now if

all we want are ring records, we should

have just bought a 200 horsepower van.

>> Certainly.

>> But you can't buy it. It's super

relatable. It's super relatable, Paul.

>> That's why I don't like it.

>> I know Ford is very proud of it and

Ford, you know, with their page on their

media site, all drive,000 horsepower.

Woo! All the things and it's built to

>> the homage, all this stuff. Great. Build

something relatable and then go do that.

I'd be more impressed if they took

another transit or the newest Transit

and go beat Sabine's time in a stock

Transit.

>> Oh, see. Wow. See, now, yeah, now you're

asking questions here.

>> Make it better. Does that mean the van's

faster? It would disrespect Sabine

because of this lap time, but it would

show, hey, our van kind of handles a

little bit, and you should buy one. And

you can buy one right now. Well, I mean,

yeah. I I I have You guys have to look

at this van if you haven't seen it. Van

is being kind. It's it's it's kind of a

van. It's like a It's like a goldfish

with wings and it It's got a weird I

mean it I'm sure there's there's some

pieces of Transit Band running gear that

remain in this thing.

>> The sticker,

>> the fact that it says Ford and somewhere

on it that says Transit. I mean, I I I

can't take away the fact that this is

very impressive that they pulled it off,

but this is nowhere near reality. And

you and I are going to try in spite of

our Monterey episode last week to come

back down to reality. The van is a great

entrance because vans are supposed to be

usable. They're supposed to be usable.

>> And this van is also quick.

>> It's quick. It's fast. It's arrow like

crazy. The pod shape of the the cabin.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

>> Unbelievable. It It has the crazy EV

sound to it. It is unbelievably fast. I

I'm not really sure what we've learned.

I I wore my ring one of my Ring shirts

in honor of the electric van, but I just

>> There's that. I can't wait to go back to

the ring and drive something much slower

than a 2000 horsepower van, but we enjoy

going there and we'll go back and we'll

talk about that. Some other news that

we've just seen is about two of our

favorite companies, Mercedes and BMW,

and it has to do with EVs again and how

Mercedes was caught flatfooted. They

were

>> caught because of the market

>> didn't want their EQS vehicles. None of

them.

>> They've been feeling the shoe leather on

their butts. Yes,

>> it's been very painful. Customers

>> have not wanted that

>> and they have decided to ask BMW for

help to use the B48 2 L engine that is

in pretty much everything including the

Supra 2.0, I believe.

>> Yes, I believe you're right.

>> Minis, everything. This this engine's

everywhere. Well, now it's going to be

in even more places.

>> It's going to be with Mercedes. Now,

Mercedes already has another 2 L,

>> but that one isn't really compatible

with hybrid powertrains. So, they have

to

>> get a different

because that they've made that 2 L do

like 600 horsepower. The one that

Mercedes has has done crazy crazy

horsepower.

>> So, they need yet another 2 L engine.

This is the only engine that I know

>> right now that Mercedes has asked BMW

for. But I come back to the rant that I

had on was it two podcasts ago or one

when we talked about the car Oh yes,

>> the car the one

>> the unicar

>> manufacturers everybody contributes

something.

>> Yes,

>> it's happening.

>> Well, my question is you bring it up.

Yeah. What sets

>> all these BMW engine equipped

Mercedes-Benzes apart from anything

else? It is styling. It is interface

>> and a paint job.

>> That's it. Well, but but but you're also

touching on the other part of the

reality is and here's my question. When

and why did BMW become the person that

everybody collaborates with for engines?

I mean, Toyota and Mercedes are two

people you would not think would go to

BMW for engines, and we have both of

them have done it.

>> Dear BMW,

>> yes. I mean, the B-58 truly, the B-58, I

think, has surpassed all expectations.

That's the one in the Supra. Yeah. As

being like the current iconic BMW

engine. Everything they put it in, it

gets crazy horsepower. Every number

you've seen feels like far less than the

car actually spits out. So BMW is

certainly doing something right. But I

think it's fascinating to have another

company that is pursuing BMW for an

engine. Yeah. Unicar. It's all

happening. It's just happening slowly

but surely. Yeah.

>> You thought the Volkswagen 2 L engine

was in everything. BMW says hold my

schnitle. I'm

>> We're coming for Volkswagen's record of

whatever.

>> Whatever. That's a record you want for

sure. Uhhuh.

>> I mean, I guess this is fine. It's only

one engine. It's not like Mercedes asked

BMW for all of their engines. Hey, could

we have that?

>> And neither did Toyota. But I I would

think Mercedes would get past this time

period. They would h use it for a time a

time being. But the question that's on

my mind, the the big question is,

>> do you take your Mercedes to a BMW

dealer for service?

>> Well, it's the do you take your Toyota

to BMW? It's the same question. Yes. Can

I take my Supra to the local BMW dealer

and vice versa?

>> Do I buy BMW parts at the Mercedes

counter or Mercedes parts at the BMW

counter?

>> Yes. The oil filters, are they all the

same or is it just the same supplier? Do

all these German companies use all the

same suppliers? They probably use

>> lean on most come in different boxes.

Yeah.

>> And different different uh part numbers.

>> Yeah.

>> So,

>> yeah,

>> it's a little strange, but it's already

happening. The unicar, the the one car

to rule them all. Mercedes and BMW are

out of the gate.

>> That's excellent. Well, the other thing

that's going on here that I think is is

going we're going to see ripples of for

a while here, and that is there are

these new cafe regulation standards in

Europe that are coming in the next

couple of years essentially. And that is

the thing that has killed the current

Boxster Cayman, the 718 Boxster Cayman,

and and Porsche was thinking about going

EV. Now they're well, they're kind of

rethinking that with everybody else. But

the reality is everybody was planning

for so much EV take rate that they were

killing off projects that weren't going

to pass the emissions. the the V6 that

Toyota makes, the 3.5 L V6 that was in

the Camry and their and their trucks

that now found its way into my Amira

doesn't pass those standards. It barely

passed to get into the US and they're

already phasing it out in Europe right

now. They're selling a four-cylinder

version in Europe. So, the question is,

what happens to all of those engines

that are being phased out? Do they have

replacements? Many of these

manufacturers said, "No, we're not going

to worry about it. Everything's going to

be EV." And then the market went, "No,

we don't want that.

>> No, it's not." So places like Mercedes

are having to figure out where do we get

an engine that passes standards.

>> Mercedes is an enormous car company with

massive resources. Why cannot they dig

into their archives, tool something up?

How quickly can you build an engine?

It's enough that you have to ask your

major manufacturer competitor

>> for an engine. Well, but the these

standards, it it's the weird combination

of new regulations for emissions meeting

up with a total turn in the market where

the where the consumer, all of us, we

don't want what these manufacturers are

making. And those two things are coming

to a crux point here and hitting and

they're realizing they're not ready. It

is just fascinating to watch it happen.

We're adding FCP Euro as our partners

and supporters for both Everyday Driver

and Hooked on Driving. For nearly 40

years, FCP Euro has been an

industry-leading supplier of genuine

original equipment and OEM parts and

performance upgrades for European cars.

That means BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Mini,

Mercedes, Volvo, Porsche, and even Saab.

Paul, you have to call your

brother-in-law and tell him FCP Euro is

the place because I, as I just said,

even Saab, we're putting it in the ad.

Anyway, they offer a lifetime

replacement guarantee on everything,

including consumables like brake pads,

wiper blades, and even oil filters. Buy

a replacement, send back the old one,

and receive a credit for the full amount

for your sub. Plus, FCP Euro offers free

economy shipping on orders over $49 and

a 90-day hassle-free return policy for

new, unused, and uninstalled parts. So

visit FCP Euro today for more than

300,000 parts ready to ship for your

European car and your Saab. fcpuro.com.

So that's going on in the news. We

should move to another one of our top

five lists on this podcast. We're doing

that. We're doing uh car debates. We're

doing car conclusions. A few questions.

But our latest top five list, you guys

very much enjoyed our uh our sports cars

one. We did a hypercar one which

candidly was not relatable but we're

coming back to relatable ones now. It

was fun and it was necessary for

Monterey car. It was the right thing for

Monterey car week. It was absolutely the

right way to talk about it and that is

behind us now. So we're going to get

into lots of other ones. You guys have

sent us a lot of ideas. Thank you for

sending us those ideas. But the one

today is top five SUVs. Now I want we

have to clarify because there are so

many SUVs.

>> There will be maybe more than one top

five SUV.

>> Yes.

>> Topic Tuesday category.

>> Yes. This is top five. No limits on

seats because you've got five seaters

and seven seaters and it's under 50k.

See, most of my Well, I think all of my

SUVs are five-seaters. All All of mine

are as well because there are some

sevenseaters out there, but I wouldn't

define them as fun because this is about

trying to find a fun vehicle that is

also an SUV. And I will also say I gave

myself an extra rule. I also restricted

myself to anything that I think is

hatchback sized. I said that's not on

the list. The GLA AMG for example, I

threw it out because like that you can

get a hatchback that size. It had to be

something that feels like an SUV. It

feels like I got extra space

>> and it was still fun. We get so many

SUVs constantly in rotation for test

drives and we're glad to get the press

cars, but we get so many.

>> Mhm.

>> And it's just they just become

>> not many. I think all of them.

>> We No. Well, not we don't. Yes, we get

all of them sent to us thankfully. But

thankfully it isn't

>> all of the cars. It's just like 90% of

the cars are now five silver 5 seat

silver SUVs, CUVS. So there's so many of

these we're talking about engine sharing

and that kind of stuff that feel so

similar and so few of them actually feel

interesting to drive. So this is top

five fun to drive under 50K. You can

find that could be used but under 50K.

I am having a separate thought that just

has to get out right now.

>> Okay, please.

>> It's about the Ford van. I can't stop

thinking about it. You know what they

should do is because Ford is partnering

with Red Bull for future F1

>> Yes.

>> activities.

>> Yes. There's F1 branding on that van.

Yeah.

>> F1 Red Red Bull branding. Sorry.

>> Red Bull branding. But Ford will be

>> the engine supplier.

>> Correct.

Why doesn't Ford put an F1 engine in the

future into one of their Transits and

remake the Renault Espas van and then go

do Ring Records, then go drive those on

all of the current tracks on the F1

season because they could do it in a

weekend and go set a record. Or maybe

not, just maybe do some demo laps.

>> You have a Transit F1.

>> Transit F1 van.

>> Yeah. Yeah,

>> that would tie in better.

>> Sell it to the public. The Transit F1

It's the performance van.

>> Renault did it all those years ago and

it's still beloved. Everybody refers to

the Rena Espas. Oh my gosh.

>> The Toyota Previa, the mid-enine van.

People just seek those out. Those are

worth more money even with high miles

than they should be because they are a

mid-enine Toyota van.

>> Cuz that is the, you know, let's

demonstrate the F1 engine. Here's our

new engine. We dropped it in a Transit.

Hey, aren't we cool? Couldn't Couldn't

we put the engine in the middle of the

van space and do the the old style '7s

seating where you're you're facing it

and it actually becomes the table actual

van. It's not like the table like this

where the it's got to be usable. It's it

has to have the seat.

>> It has to have the center table. I'm

sure that would not pass any crash

standards anywhere, but it has to have

the center table that sits on top of the

where the engine block pokes up. So,

it's a mid engine

>> with all the race buckets in it.

>> And you and you get to face it. Two

people facing backwards, two facing

forwards. You can play chess on the

thing in the back while we go around the

ring. and fill it full of people. Then

let's see what your lap times are like.

>> We have made a whole subset of just ring

records. Done malt playing chess. That's

really what we're doing. Yeah, I like

it. It's good.

>> Back to the topic Tuesday. We are diving

into top five SUVs. And you're right. I

did not go after the the little tiny

ones because those are hatches in my

mind.

>> I agree. Yes.

>> I also don't have any EVs on my list.

>> I didn't either. And I think it just

comes down to fun. Not fast, fun. Right

now, EVs are struggling to be fun first.

I think they can be. I think SUVs, EVs

can be fun in the future, but I didn't

choose any

>> and I'm going to dive right into my

list.

>> Starting with something that was

>> unexpected for us, and that is the BMW

X3 M40i. This is the B-58 engine, and we

really liked it. This was a lot of fun

to drive. Now I am having obviously to

go backwards and go used because the new

X3 has been introduced but also these

brand new were not 50 grand. So true

true going back to a used buy here but

the front end was classic BMW. It looks

great, fun to drive and more power than

you think. And it was just a delight. It

was so good.

>> It's on my list as well. Absolutely.

Because we drove that Maroon one in the

snow. It's owned by a friend of ours

here in Park City. So shout out to Greg.

that is also it's the right size.

>> It's the right size.

>> It's a genuine SUV. It has actual four

seat space and hatch space, but I like

the X5. The last X5M we drove defied

physics. It was so unbelievably fast.

Totally.

>> So, it's not that the X5 isn't fun or

that kind of stuff, but it's just that

this feels right sized and still feels

somewhat communicative.

>> Yeah, agreed. Agreed. I'm all about

this. Moving on to second choice for me

is the Mazda CX-5.

>> Oh, sure. Okay. This is still being sold

by Mazda. They've done a lot of

improvements. Every time I get in it,

it's just a delight. It actually feels

pretty narrow and kind of small in

comparison to most SUVs on the market.

>> Just feels small and nimble and

lightweight. And you're reminded, that's

right, Mazda, the Miata people built

this thing.

>> It is fun to drive. And if you get the

turbo, you get all of the power. So, you

get I think 250 up to 320 lb feet

>> like that. Yeah. you get a lot more

power and that does make it a lot of

fun. You can find them new or used under

50 which is awesome.

>> They're they're very impressive. They do

have kind of a uh it's funny when you

put it next to their new stablemate the

CX50

>> that the CX-50 feels like you took a

CX-5 and squashed it because the CX-5

feels kind of to your point kind of tall

and narrow. The CX50 is wide and squat

and it and they occupy similar parts in

the market. The CX-5 is excellent

though, very good. If you'd also like to

go brand new, this is still undriven by

us. This is the CX70.

>> Yes, the OneUp.

>> It is the five passenger version of the

90 and we really like the 90. I was

thinking about that, especially the twin

turbo or I guess the turbo S version.

>> Yes.

>> And I thought, oh, we have we still

haven't driven the 70. So, I've got high

hopes because I do like the 90 quite a

lot.

>> This is you can load them out slightly

more than 50, but still it's kind of an

honorable mention. It just needs to be

acknowledged. I felt like we haven't

driven it, but I have high hopes because

we do like the CX-5 so much.

>> That's good.

>> CX-50 just feels like more of the Subaru

Outback kind of market. It doesn't feel

like they're chasing

>> traditional kind of SUV as as much,

>> but different market than these two, I

think. So, definitely CX70 is on my

list.

>> And also moving on to the Acura RDX. I

really like this thing. Okay.

>> It's a great buy used. It still looks

fresh and interesting and relevant. I'm

ready for the next RDX, but we're seeing

things maybe all EV there, but we'll

we'll see.

>> But this one, great infotainment. It's

got cool styling. It's interesting. It's

fun.

>> Lots of power. I do like driving this.

And this is a small SUV. It definitely

feels CRV size to me.

>> Definitely feels like the more luxurious

version. And speaking of CRV,

>> not the fifth

>> Whoa. generation.

>> You are actually talking about a CRV and

the positive. That is this is big,

folks. This is big.

>> The sixth, not the fifth.

>> The current gen that you're selling

right now. Yes.

>> This is the one I think you should buy.

Actually, the hybrid is actually kind of

fun. It's got that boost. It's got that

power.

>> Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does.

>> That kind of makes it interesting. Now,

in the handling department, it's not

interesting. But actually, none of these

are really stand out in handling. So,

fun is relative to SUVs to this,

>> of course. Yes.

>> You know, this size

>> roughly5,000 lb or more. I mean, that's

really what we're talking about. And

that's not where fun handling lives.

High riding 5,000 lb is not the recipe.

Not at all.

>> No. But I did like it enough to add it

here because I think it's a good buy.

New or used. None of the old generations

actually. They were all underpowered.

>> I did not like the fifth at all. At all.

>> But massive changes for this one. I

think they've done an excellent job. It

felt like Honda reminded themselves that

we've built the NSX, we've built the

S2000, we've built race cars. As a

matter of fact, we we currently build

race cars.

>> Don't we do that right now?

>> Let's do something. Let's remind

ourselves. And they've done a great job

with this. So, absolutely. The CRV is on

my list. It's also Cayenne sized.

>> And then I was also surprised to add the

Pathfinder to my list. It does feel

slightly underpowered.

>> Okay.

>> But it's actually interesting and fun

because of the legacy of the name and

the fun it evokes. Like we're on our way

to have fun.

>> Okay.

>> We're on our way to go do some stuff.

And you know what? It actually drives

very well.

>> It does drive well. Yeah.

>> It's one of those that Nissan took a lot

of components and yeah,

>> actually did a lot of improvements. So

it's it's not dull. It's actually spry.

It's interesting and it's it's engaging.

There's some entertainment value to be

found here. And so

>> in the midst of everything going on with

Nissan, I do think the Frontier is a

standout. I think the Pathfinder stand

out.

>> The NISMO Z, they've got some bright

spots here. They do.

>> All of them are getting a little bit

older right now and they need to think

about refreshing them.

>> And they're all built on old

architecture that they re revamped. It's

worked. Definitely worked. But

Pathfinder makes my list as well. I

think it's a good list with your list. I

h I h Okay. I think you may have outdone

me for one thing and that is I think you

across the board have got newer cars

than I do.

>> I tried to stay new. That X3 was the

only one that I really was forced to go

backwards. We have not driven the new X3

or X4. Yeah.

>> So that's uh that's a determination, but

those are above 50 anyway. So

>> pretty much all of mine make the under

50 category because I'm looking at all

of them used. I I don't think you could

get any of mine new for this, but I

really thought about, okay, you want to

buy a five seat actual SUV

>> and dynamics are important. You are a

driver, you're coming out of a sports

car, you want a car that, yes, it's

bigger, but but your hopes down sadly to

be disappointed.

>> But but this is the thing. I feel like

the five that I have, and I've got two

wild cards as well, but the five that I

have really work as far as you're not

going to be disappointed in the

dynamics. You're still driving, as we

already talked about, a roughly 5,000

pound brick. Okay. So, you have to get

your hopes down. As you said, you have

to know what you're driving, but I I

really do want to talk about five that I

have here that I'm pretty excited about.

One that surprised me the last time we

drove it, and that is the Alfa Romeo

Stelvio. We drove a competition version

the last time we had it, and we were

both pleasantly surprised.

>> Are the competitions under 50K?

>> Uh, used, you can get there. You can get

there. And and if you can't find a

competition, then you can start shopping

the other ones. But also keep in mind

the Stelvio's been around long enough

that the the big boys,

>> the Quadrifoglios are now used cuz keep

in mind the Giulia Quadrifoglio you can

definitely find under 50. So we're

talking about the SUV version, which

they're hovering around there, too. So

there are options. It's going to really

depend on your suspension setup because

I've driven these before and felt like

they were too wallowy. And then I've

driven the competition version and was

pleasantly surprised.

>> That one changed everything.

>> So, it's really going to depend on your

suspension setup. So, keep that in mind.

They're not all going to drive well.

Also, the seats vary, too.

>> Mhm.

>> But this one that happened to be sent to

us, it was essentially a lot of the

running gear and the seats of the

Quadrifoglio

>> without the big engine, and it was the

competition version. I was very

impressed with that combo.

>> That was 60ish new right used.

>> Exly. And they and there's no second

buyer for an Alfa Romeo. That's the

thing. Everybody runs away from them

because they're worried about the

reliability. So, the Alpha male uh

competition, no one is going to be

surprised by my next choice. So, I

picked one of my own cars. I put the

Ruba Cayenne up here picture-wise, but

that's because I am a huge fan of the

Cayenne. Look, I have a firstg. That's

this 2010 that we made into the Ruba

Cayenne, which now has the lift of a

Wrangler Rubicon, which is why we called

it the Ruba Cayenne. Uh my wife drove

that almost exclusively this past

weekend. We had my son had a mountain

bike race and she drove this cuz this is

the bike hauler and she got out of it

going this is even better than I

remembered. She just really liked this

old one which is cool. That's a 2010.

It's almost got 170,000 miles on it. It

just keeps running. It's been really

really good. We also have a 2017 which

is the e- hybrid. So we have like two

complete bookends as far as the two

generations and the amount of tech on

each one. The the 2010 is just base

six-cylinder engine. Very

straightforward. And the e- hybrid 2017

has everything you can get on one. It's

just going. The 2010 is just going and

going and going. It's great.

>> We like Cayens across the board. And the

thing is, as they they make so many in

so many variants that if you have pretty

much any amount of money, you could buy

a Cayenne. I mean, literally, you can go

find them right now for 10 grand.

>> That's true. That's true.

>> I I'm It'll need stuff. I'm not saying

like, "Go drive it forever. It's a

Honda." It's not. It's not a Honda.

These are expensive to maintain because

the stuff for them costs a lot of money.

>> Okay. But we find that they don't

typically randomly break. You can watch

a lot of my long-term videos. So, I have

to say the Cayenne, find one that works

for your needs, it works for your

budget. Be careful on the maintenance,

but I think they're great.

>> I had to put the X3 in here. This is

actually the picture from our actual

test drive, but the X3 M40i is a

fantastic actual kind of driver's SUV. I

was very impressed with that. That has

that B-58 in it as well, and that was

wonderful. Moving on to the GV70

Genesis. Now, new, these are high 60s,

maybe 70, brand new, but get yourself a

slightly used one. Also, new excellent

>> with the four cylinder, not the twin

turbo V6. With the four-cylinder, you

can get them for around 50 brand new.

>> I don't know that we've driven the

four-cylinder version of this. It's only

been that nice,

>> but they've updated the Remember, it's

the same four-cylinder. They updated a 2

and 12 liter for the G70 sedan. That's

true. So, it's now 300 horsepower and

more torque, which is a decent engine.

Now, the the one prior, the 2 L prior

was not a very good engine. The 2.5 L is

better significantly, but I'm talking

specifically about their 3 and 1/2 L

twin turbo V6. Phenomenal engine. Gives

this car so much power, but it's been

around long enough now that for 50 you

may be able to find one, which is pretty

cool because again, the brand new ones

are 65 to 70. Like, we just had one this

past week and it was 70 grand.

>> I was reminded again how much I like it.

It's great.

>> It's so great to drive. So luxurious.

Everybody asks you what it is. Head

turning.

>> Fantastic styling.

>> It is solid dynamics. It really is very,

very good. And this is a a 5 seat uh a

little smaller than than a Cayenne, more

like a Macan size, but still a genuine

SUV. The thing about it is you lose

second row space, but the cargo space is

excellent. So, it's a really worthwhile

SUV. Another one I was thrilled to see

is is under 50K used. used. I looked on

AutoTempus nationwide, found a lot of

them. The Acura MDX Type S. I looked on

autotempus.com/ everyday and I did find

them and it ranged on mileage in year.

Here's the thing. You have to get into

the earlier ones to get under 50 which

is like uh 1819 I forget I think is the

year cuz they aren't new. But new but

here's the thing. New they're 70ish. So

new they're much cheaper than a new

Cayenne would be. And this is one of my

favorite

>> competitors to the Cayenne as far as

performance is concerned and performance

and dynamics. And this actually can even

be a seven-seater, which the Cayenne

cannot.

>> This is way up there on my

recommendation list. The MDX Type S is

superb. It really, it is a worthwhile

large SUV and the dynamics will surprise

you across the board.

>> So, I have to say that's the last of my

five, but I have I have two wild cards.

>> Well, you do

>> for various reasons because they they

are quite wild. The first one's going to

surprise everyone probably, especially

you. I had to go here. And that is the

Chevy Blazer RS. Remember driving this?

>> I do.

>> We were pleasantly surprised by this.

The RS had a limited slip differential

in the rear

>> and the RS I I can tell you right now

what the mood board of this truck was.

>> The mood board was or the the the pitch

to the designers was somebody from

marketing went in and went, I want an

SUV for the dad that wants a Camaro, but

he's got too many kids. This has the

Camaro interior in it unabashedly with

the with the fun vents and everything.

This is the Camaro dash in an SUV.

>> It is.

>> And when we got one, the last one we

got, which was an RS, we both were like,

"Oh, good. A blazer." We we really were

like, "This is not going to be any

good." Because we were in a in a glut at

that point of marginal SUVs when this

showed up. This a couple years ago it

showed up. We we had driven so many just

questionable SUVs of questionable

quality and dynamics and this showed up.

We were like, "Oh, good. Chevy Blazer

haha Camaro truck." And then we drove it

and the RS version specifically has

different running gear and it was, you

know what, it held up. It was

worthwhile. And that means this is and

keep in mind the Blazer's just gone EV.

So, this is prior to that. Okay. But

this was a surprise contender for me

when we drove it. So, I had to include

it here as a wild card. I don't think it

is dynamically as good as some of the

other ones I've mentioned, but I think

its dynamics are surprising and better

than they should be. And you have a

Camaro dash. It's got kind of an

interesting not it doesn't look like any

other SUV inside because it is the

Camaro dashboard put in there for you to

have fun with. So, I have to say the

Blazer. My last one is a wild card

because I want to like it more than I

do. Every time we've driven it, we've

liked it. That is the Mercedes GLE

AMGS.

How old do you have to go to find?

>> 17 and 18 is the is the model year. And

that is back a ways in Mercedes interior

tech which I don't love.

>> Probably some higher mileage too.

>> Higher mileage. And it also means you

will be maintaining an AMG 63S.

And I don't know what that's going to be

like for you. I might be a little

concerned, but every time we drive this,

we're impressed. Who is the buyer for a

100,000 milei

prior tech one of these Mercedes?

>> You know, I think you know who I think

it is? I think it is the family that is

Mercedes obsessed and is getting a

Mercedes for their new driver.

>> I think that's the used Mercedes where

you have a Mercedes. These don't look

old.

>> Maybe they have one of these already and

they're upgrading the old one.

>> Yeah, they don't look that old. It's

still a Mercedes. It's all those things.

They do look pretty good, but the tech

is old on these. By the time you get

under 50K, and I'm a little worried

about the maintenance, but every time we

drive an AMG 63 of anything, it's very,

very good. So, I had to put it in here.

>> You have a fantastic list, and I know

everybody's asking, why isn't a Cayenne

on my list? It's really my headspace for

this exercise was new, as new as you can

go.

>> The X3 notwithstanding,

>> this is where you and I were

fantastically split on this because

there's really good brand new options.

And then I'm going with the used stuff.

I like the fact that we split it. It's

very good

>> because you're right. The Genesis G GV70

is superb. The Cayenne is superb. All

these. And I kind of I guess I was just

thinking about ruling those out right

away simply because the trim that I

would actually want isn't available.

Yeah. Even used. I mean like I'd want a

Cayenne GTS is what I'd want. Sure. And

even slightly used, those are still

above 50.

>> Yeah. I mean the the current model I

didn't think about. That would be on my

list.

>> First or second gen Cayenne, you can get

any any trim you want, but your first or

second gen. The second gen ended in

2018,

>> 2019 somewhere back, which you want to

go back that far. I mean, that's the

thing.

>> What can you get new? You feel like your

dollars are going a long way for

>> you and you have brand new tech and all

that kind of stuff. That is how a lot of

people shop

>> and and that was my headsp space.

>> I think that's great. I mean, we will

come back to, you know, we will come

back to seven seaters that are just for

seven seaters. That's another one on our

list. And, you know, we're going to keep

trying to keep most of these under 50K

because I feel like

>> I actually read it recently. I think the

average transaction price for a car in

the last year was like 46 or 48,000. It

keeps average. It keeps going way up.

>> So, $50,000 feels to me like an awful

lot of money for a car, but that is like

where most people are shopping now. And

if you look at pickups,

best of luck trying to find a pickup

that's under $50,000, a brand new

pickup, even slightly used anymore.

>> It's crazy. So, and I I this is weird,

but I almost feel like pickups to me are

always the reference for what a

vehicle's really cost right now. And if

you want any kind of pickup with any

kind of bell or whistle, not both, not

bells and whistles, a bell or a whistle,

it's going to be like 60 70 grand. So,

50 grand we're going to try to use for a

lot of these. And that's uh that's SUVs.

I'm fascinated that Lexus didn't make

the list

>> and nothing from Volkswagen. As soon as

I thought of any of the tword named

Volkswagens,

>> T-Rock,

>> Tiguan, TA, I just thought,

>> "Yep."

>> Oh, no. No, no, no.

>> Yeah. No, no.

>> Okay, so real quick, cuz we're talking

fun. We're talking fun. That's the key

thing. There's plenty of SUVs out there

that work, but I'm talking about you get

in it and you actually are okay to be

there as a person that likes to drive.

We didn't have any Audi's either.

True. Because they're too related to the

Volkswagen product. They're not as fun

as I want them to be.

>> Agreed. Because I keep thinking, what

quick? What is the luxury version of

Volkswagen? Anything? I suppose Audi,

>> it's it's the Q or the SQ versions of

the

>> Too close. They don't feel distanced

enough. They don't feel special enough

anymore. My problem with the Audi SUVs

in this conversation is I have trouble

picking one over a used Cayenne

>> or a used Macan

>> Q5 SQ5.

>> Uh-huh. Sure. I'd buy a used Macan. And

I think the Macan is too close to a

hatch. That's why I don't even think it

is an SUV. That's why it was off my list

because the Macan is an is is a hatch as

is the GLA.

>> I didn't really consider the the Macan.

I mean, it is, but it isn't.

>> But if you're buying a a S a Q5 or an

SQ5, I'm gonna say Macan. If you're

buying above that, the Tiguan, not the

Tiguan, the the the sevens. Okay.

>> Yeah, the Q7.

>> I know the seven is is a seven-seater,

but if you're buying a seven, just get

them. Just get a Cayenne.

>> But then you're already spending too

much money. We've crossed 50.

>> We're talking about fun here, and that's

why those don't work quite as well

because they're overlapped by other

better things.

>> Okay, so the headline is Volkswagen

makes nothing fun,

>> least in SUVs.

>> Okay, well, here come the YouTube

comments followed by the nasty letters.

Everyday driver TV atgmail. We're always

ready to read whatever you'd like to

send. We appreciate it.

Since you're listening to us, you'll end

up shopping for your next car. And when

you do, you need autotempus.com.

Any car, anywhere, at any price.

Autotempus searches all the major car

listing sites on the web, local or

nationwide. And Autotempus has recently

added price history for every car

listed, so you can see how prices are

trending and know if you found a good

deal. You can also create search alerts

and lists of saved searches so you can

find your perfect spec even easier the

next time. Search on any device in your

browser or as an app for Apple or

Android. New, used, or unexpected,

AutoTempest is how we search for cars.

Go to autotempest.com/ everyyday so they

know we sent you. Autotempest all the

cars. One search.

Our first car debate is from Ian D who

is considering a move to Colorado. He's

in the South Denver area for a promotion

and a good career move for his job.

>> Cool.

>> Ian, thank you for writing. He is

currently living in the Dallas Fort

Worth area of Texas. Before then, he was

living in Florida. He grew up in Kansas,

so that means he's used to cold winters

and some snow. He anticipates that

Colorado will have a whole lot more. He

currently drives a 2021 Mustang GT

Premium with the performance pack active

exhaust. Prior to that, he had a second

gen Jag XKR convertible. He loved that

one. And he says, "Well, there's lots of

great things about the Mustang, the

engine. It's fast. It's competent.

Modern tech."

>> He hasn't really bonded with it like he

did with the Jag. Interesting. Okay. He

thinks in large part because Mustangs

are so common that it doesn't feel

special even in the bright orange color

that he's got. While the Jag was getting

on in years, starting having the old car

things like creeks and brittle plastics,

all that stuff, worn bushings,

windows becoming unglued, the soft top

window. He said it felt a lot more

special despite all that. And he was

more proud to own it. Interesting. He

hardly ever saw another one, even in

Florida where those things live.

And he got the most compliments for the

Jag. He misses having a convertible,

even though the weather in Texas makes a

coupe more practical for his daily.

>> Yes, it does. But now that he's planning

this move to Colorado, he's wondering if

it would be a good idea to get a daily

that has all-wheel drive with all-wheel

tires since the nature of his job means

he needs to be in the office and can't

work from home.

>> All right.

>> It's the new trend. It's the new thing.

>> We're all going back to work, aren't we?

Yeah. We're going to the office again.

Remember that?

>> Yep.

>> He started thinking about something like

a used Audi A5 Sportback or Mazda 3

Turbo and then add a second car for the

fun driving. So, from one to two cars

for this debate with a total budget of

$45,000, Paul limited to 50K. What would

we recommend?

>> So, recap here. One all-wheel day,

all-wheel drive, daily driver that must

be comfortable, nice place to be, great

condition, modern tech, and reliable,

preferably less than 40,000 mi, no

accidents or damage. And the second car

is one rear wheel drive sports car that

must be unique. M

>> strongly prefer to be beautiful. Prefer

convertible. Strongly preference strong

preference to be uncommon and not too

needy maintenance-wise.

>> All right.

>> Ian has thought about a 1990s Alpha

Romeo Spider. A TVR Chimera.

>> I have so many things to say already.

Ian,

>> a BMW Z3 M Roadster Jag F-Type Triumph

TR6. Please no. No on the TR6. That's

going to be needy. and a 987 generation

boxer.

>> I have to jump in here. I Wow. Uh Ian, I

want to come back to your the actual

wrap-up you wrote. You actually wrote to

us, Ian, and said the rear wheel drive

sports car must be unique. Great. Prefer

it to be beautiful. Love it. Prefer

convertible, uncommon, and then not too

needy, followed by the sentence, must

work out of the box without a bunch of

work to make it the car you want. And

then you followed with a '90s Alfa Romeo

Spider, a TVR Chimera, and a Triumph

TR6, my friend. Those are all off the

list. I like all of them. They're

they're intriguing and unique in their

own way. In fact, I have to I have to we

have to just sit here for a minute and

look at an Alfa Romeo Spider because

they are fantastic looking.

>> They are great.

>> The '90s Alpha Mayo spiders, they're

great looking. They're wonderful.

They've sold on Bring a Trailer for way,

way too much money. But when I was

actually in high school, a a girl I went

to high school with, her dad was the

general manager of the Alfa Romeo

dealer.

>> Oh, really?

>> Okay. Right before it closed in Texas.

This was in the '90s, right before they

closed.

>> Really?

>> And these late model Alpha Spiders he

was able to get a killer deal on and he

refused to buy one.

Okay. He was the general manager of the

dealer.

>> That's like a 91.

>> This is like This is the era I'm talking

about. right before they closed the

dealerships and left the US with their

tail between their legs. He stayed away

from these and he ran the place. So, I

always thought that was quite an

interesting endorsement or uh yeah,

anyway, endorsement is the wrong word.

You know what I'm saying? So, I'm trying

to be nice. These

>> people love these and they just seem to

be constant headaches. The TVR Chimera

that we drove recently for our Kota

piece that is actually available right

now. You can look at it on our main

YouTube channel. We both thoroughly

enjoyed driving that, but I would not

want to have to maintain it.

>> Mhm.

>> Triumph TR6 in the same category. Cool.

But I don't want to chase that. So, I

think they're out for you, Ian, just

because you want something that's going

to be actually drivable. You can hop in

and drive it as car number two. That is

a fun car. Not not car number two, the

project car. That's that's a different

thing.

>> Alpha. Oh my gosh.

>> They're they're super cool. I had a

buddy that had one for a short period of

time and he spent his entire ownership

>> just getting it back to sailable

condition.

>> He bought it. It didn't run. Had to get

it back cuz it run well enough to sell

it.

>> It ran to that was the top was bad, the

seat was bad. This needed work. And so

he just

>> he drove it and enjoyed it enough, but

he spent his whole time and all of his

money just getting it back to something

where he could sell it.

>> Like his money out, but just sell it.

The joke you've always made about the

two best days of boat ownership are the

day you get the boat, the day you sell

the boat, everything in between. There's

there's some fun, but yeah,

>> I've heard that about airplanes, but

airplanes are fun. Well, they are. Yeah,

they get you places. But anyway, yeah,

>> Ian, boy, do I have choices for you. I

found really cool stuff. I'm very

excited to let you know that I instantly

thought of BMW 2 series.

BMW of Seattle has a red 2015 228i

X drive convertible with 48,487

miles. This is the actual car. You don't

have to get a convertible. I did find

the coups.

>> But you've done allin one.

>> I've done it all in one car. Good job.

>> Here is that car for sale. Oh no,

they're asking right at 20 for that.

Really? I found a 2018 230i X drive hard

top with 43,000 mi for 21. So, a little

bit fewer miles. This one's 48,000, but

the interior looks great. It's a rough

looking photo. A little bit grainy photo

here, but you can see this is that uh uh

>> 2 series is a great It is an allin-one

choice. I really like that. That's good.

>> Yeah, this is a 2015 and it still looks

actually quite good.

>> And I I think this could be an excellent

choice for you. Again, I'm kind of

saving my convertible choices for you

for the fun sports car. And I love your

ideas, especially about the Z4. You had

a rant about Z4s a couple episodes ago,

I did that. They're slept on. They're

overlooked. There are great prices.

Totally.

>> Go get yourself a Z4. And I love the

updated styling like this one. I'm sure

you could find a 3.0 as well. Yes, that

would be

>> if you're shopping a Boxster, the

reality is you're going to get 80 90% of

the edge of capability experience out of

a Z4 and it's going to cost you half as

much. Are you going to drive at the

edges enough that it matters?

>> I think you see what I'm doing, Ian. I

am allocating about 20,000 21,000 for

the all-wheel drive, the daily. You can

still have a fun driving car in that 2

series, which leaves you 30 grand for

something like this, a really nice Z4.

30 grand will also get you that Z3M that

you're looking for. A really nice one of

those. 30 grand will get you a great

Boxster. 30 grand will get you an MX5

>> RF. Yeah, it will.

>> Miata RF.

>> And here's the Boxster. Here's a photo

of the Boxster as well. I think that

would be great. So,

>> go choose. There's a variety. There's a

variety of generations. It's not just a

single generation that uh that you can

shop for for $30,000 in the Boxster

Land.

>> But I'm landing also on a really nice

S2000 that I came across from a

dealership in Arizona called Plaza

Motors. Calling them out for having a

really great S2000. It is $36,000.

>> Oh, you're spending a lot of that

budget. Okay. But it's just I think just

under 50,000 mi somewhere in there. But

super clean. If you could find one of

those

>> clean AP2 second the refresh. Yeah.

>> It really looks great. It still looks

kind of modern. If it's

>> those are timeless

>> in good condition and untouched. Great

shape.

>> Look at this car. It's so special.

>> Yeah, they're really great.

>> I think you I mean ignore the 911s in

the background, but

>> you aren't. But I but I understand.

Yeah. This one I came across and I just

thought, you know, this is expensive at

$36,000.

It's actually more than it was new more

than 15 years ago.

>> That's what happened to those cars.

They're beloved, but the nice ones. And

you people see a nice one. I think you

would have a lot of fun in this. Yeah.

>> And all of these, again, they're all

roadsters. They're all fun stuff to

drive. And I think you could have great

enjoyment. But imagine a 2 series X

drive. I think you'd have trouble going

choosing which one to drive in the

springtime and the fall when weather's

still questionable. You could have all-w

weather tires on either and you'd kind

of have a difficult time choosing. But

that's the way I would allocate 20 grand

for the daily.

>> You're spending less on that. Go maybe a

little bit older. Well, going even older

with the with the S2000 here, but those

are all my choices for you. I love the

boxer idea, but I love the uh the BMWs,

too. Coming back.

>> I think you did really well with the 2

series. I think that really is fantastic

all in one. I've got a couple all-in-

ones, but I've got a little bit of

everything here that I want to walk

through. I'm going to start here on the

obvious choice for the daily that is

all-wheel drive and decent to be in, and

that is the Golf R. Now, a new Golf R is

your entire budget. So, the question

just becomes, what Golf R, how far back

do you want to go? What how much money

is it really going to cost you? I mean,

the first one we drove, I believe, was

the Mark 6 where it only came here in

stick shift

>> and it was still pretty cool. So, it's

the Mark 6. The Mark 7 actually is the

the seventh generation is is the one

that I think everybody really holds up

because with the Mark 8, they went to

the weird haptic interface which they're

now pulling back on. So,

>> figure out what's the Golf R that you're

comfortable with because the reality is

in spite of the fact that this is not

the most dynamic hothatch out there. It

isn't. I mean, we put it with the Civic

Type R. We put it with the GR Corolla.

Those are actually more fun to drive

than this. But this is more daily do

everything than those cars. And the

space in the Golf R is hard to argue

with. Many SUVs struggle to have as much

space as a Golf. That's the reality. So

if you're looking for a daily, it's

really hard to argue against this. If

you can find a lot though for this,

>> the the R the R is good for this if you

can pull it off. Another one that you

can find because they are there are some

used bargains out there. You may have to

go back a bit and that is the Audi S3,

not RS3, S3. So, the slightly spicy

version of the Audi 3 I think is

possible. Now, how much of your budget?

The problem is this is going to start to

eat up a lot of your budget pretty fast,

but I do like the S3. I already talked

about the Alpha. I know you want an

Alpha. I like the DVR Camaro. It's a

great looking car. I really think that

really is the place to walk away,

though. I don't think I don't I just

don't think they're going to run. I

mean, look, I have a nice uh picture of

a Z4, a Z3M Roadster here, cuz you

brought it up. These are fantastic

looking. Let me put it another way. The

Z3M Roadster is going to require some

maintenance.

>> But if you told me which would I rather

own, drive, and maintain, Z3M Roadster

or Alpha Spider, I would run, not walk,

run to the Z3 and just said, "Whatever

you've got for me, plastic stuff,

doesn't matter. I will take this and I

will maintain it." So, the Z3M Roadster,

you cannot fight against that. It is a

fantastic car.

>> What about a Jaguar F-Type?

>> These,

>> see, that's a great photo you've got

here. That's

>> These convertibles are surprisingly

affordable. There's not a lot of second

buyer for him. I'm worried about this

also taking up all of your budget, but

you would thoroughly enjoy this car

because you have Jag in your history and

you loved it. The XKR you liked more

than your Mustang. I have to put an

F-Type in here. They are out there. And

the convertibles, the convertibles

aren't holding their value that well.

These cars in general aren't holding

their value that well. You might be able

to find a screaming deal on one. I mean,

I think with 30 grand of your 50, you

could walk away with a really nice

F-Type convertible that somebody's

selling out there and you got 20 grand

for your daily. So, I I have to say this

is this is a compelling option,

>> right? Ian's got a soft spot for the Jag

because of his experience.

>> And because there because he's also

looking for a little bit unique Jag

convertible. you would love. I'm moving

on to my all-in- ones, though. I have to

go here. Audi TT could be the only with

baseball, glove, stitching.

>> Ian has he's just Ian. That's the other

thing about it. We have We don't have

dog, kid, minister of finance. So far,

we've just got Ian.

>> Now, look, the the Audi TT, it's not a

Boxster. It's not an S2000. It's not the

most dynamic thing ever, but all-wheel

drive convertible. You want something

you can daily and will work in all

weather. Well, Audi TT. You want

something that's convertible and you

don't see a ton of Audi TT. This is a

fantastic all-in-one choice here. And

I'm excited to actually recommend it.

>> Go out and use your whole budget and

shop Audi TT convertibles and surprise

yourself. I think you will, especially

considering I started with the Golf R

>> and now I'm in some of that running gear

in all-wheel drive and more interesting.

>> Yeah. Right. So Audi TT is on that list.

And then I have to say it. I think you

kind of brushed near it, but I have to

say it. You really can surprise yourself

with 50 grand in your pocket. You can

surprise yourself on old 911s. Get a

four a Carrera 4 convertible and have it

as your one car.

>> At least 50k and under. Truly,

>> uh, you got to shop money. This is

996997.

So the '9s and early 2000s models.

>> Seven would be sweet.

>> A 997. And I'm not even saying 4S, just

a the all-wheel drive convertible

because they're all Cabriolet tops,

which means they're an insulated top.

>> Yeah.

>> So, you could drive this year round.

Drop the top when the weather's perfect.

Put on all weathers or hopefully even

winter tires in the winter. A winter

tired Carrera 4 will go anywhere.

>> It's anywhere.

>> Fantastic. I I'd love it if he could.

summer tires and top down on any of

those great Colorado roads, you will be

thrilled. This this is going to be all

your budget. There will be maintenance

involved, but I don't think there's

going to be random breakage. There will

be maintenance involved.

>> Yeah,

>> there's known issues with this this

generation. I know that there's engine

issues, but but you can actually find

people that have solved it properly.

A well-maintained one of these is going

to run a while. Cuz the other thing

about 911s that's very interesting is

the cabriolets are the ones that drop.

It's the manual transmission spec for

the track versions with a sport chrono.

Those hang on to money. Yeah. You get a

nons Cabriolet

and there's no second or third buyer.

They just those those are below

everything else on the 911 market is the

Cabriolets. So that's where the deal is,

which is why I mention it. Ian, you've

gotten many choices. Please let us know

what you end up getting. Good luck with

your move, your new job. Write to us

[email protected].

Topic Tuesday's car debates, car

conclusions. When you decide, love to

hear from you.

>> Go's Garage is our official car care

partner and one of our very first

sponsors for the show. They don't just

make great car care products, they want

you to get out and drive your car. Go is

a family-owned company, and they've been

a part of every one of our road trips.

We always take Speed Shine on every

shoot, helping us spot clean cars at a

moment's notice. Their foaming glass

cleaner is the quickest and best way

we've ever found to get windows clean

before a big day of driving. And they're

always releasing new and improved

products like their updated Wash Bucket

2. Plus, all of Grio's liquid products

are 100% guaranteed and made right here

in the USA. The Grio's people are always

happy to answer any questions to make

sure you get the right product and the

right results. So, get the best quality

car care products out there from a

company that has always supported this

show. Our audience can always get at

least 10% off by using the code

[email protected].

Moving on to Dan Z. His email is from

the Northeast. He and his minister

finance want something to put the

majority of their miles on.

>> Okay. They are a family of two in their

early 40s with the blessing and curse of

needing both business and farm vehicles.

>> Okay. All right. Their current garage

has those needs covered, but they're

lacking in the daily department. They

have an F350 truck for the farm, a

sprinter.

>> Get farm things done.

>> That gets farm things done.

>> F350 gets farm things done. Whatever you

got, the F350's got you. True.

>> Those are enormous.

>> That's true.

>> Sorry.

>> They've got a Sprinter all-wheel drive

van for his wife's antiques business

>> and quick ring runs.

>> And quick runs on any local racetrack.

>> No, no, but but you know, just back to

where we started. Yeah. and a 987 Cayman

S manual transmission.

>> Now Dan puts most of his miles on the

Cayman, but his wife doesn't like to

drive it.

>> It also pains him to leave it parked at

the airport for a week at a time when

he's on business trips, but he can't

exactly take the other two vehicles that

she needs for work and for farm use. The

Sprinter,

>> she can't find that the vans at the

airport. That's not going to work.

>> And you're not going to like parking

that F350 at the airport. That's

>> pretty much impossible.

>> You just Here's the thing. With an F350,

you leave the farm and you come back to

the farm.

>> There's no parking at Walmart at the

farm.

>> You just you just use it for farm

things. That's all it's for. Yeah.

>> The Cayman is also not perfect in the

winter. Taking the dog for her dog dog

on hikes. Yes.

>> Costco runs all that kind of stuff. And

his wife would love something more

enjoyable for her rotation than the van

and the truck.

>> Yeah, those are big.

>> I think I have the perfect Have you

really? Okay. All right. vehicle. What's

funny is that he then goes down a

fantastic car guy rabbit hole. He said,

"They're in the Northeast. They don't

always need an all-wheel drive or SUV.

Kids aren't in the cards, but they

really would like to have something

that's not as dedicated a sports car as

the Cayman and not as usable as the big

truck and van. So, budget is flexible,

which is terrifying to say to us, but

anyway,

>> this is something they both would like

to drive. So, the reality is it would

probably be a little better if it was an

auto. His wife would be a little happy

if it was, even though she she'd drive a

manual. But he's thought about I love

this list. This is so varied. E39 M5,

the one everybody wants.

>> I mean, I don't know that you want to

use that as the random day. Okay,

>> you're not gonna like parking that at

the airport, too. What if somebody dings

my M5?

>> I agree. A Audi RS3, the Giulia

all-wheel drive. I like that. The

Integra Type S, the Panamera Sport

Turismo, a Macan, an ATSV, a CT4

Blackwing. There's some great cars in

there. Couple of them, he says, are a

little over the top for his wife who

who's just she's worried about the

perception of some of these. He also

said he brought up a 911 and she said

absolutely not for the same reason. So

perception is an issue here as well.

He's curious what we think. He has so

much great stuff in his history as a

driver. He had a a WSS6 Trans. Remember

those with the big all the big vents?

>> Those Trans Ams like the big nostrils on

them. An R53 Mini Cooper S. Love it. A

right-hand drive classic Mini.

>> There's some great stuff here. Jaguar X.

the XJR, Jaguar, Mazda Speed Miata. So,

you're apparently not a huge person

because I can't fit in that to save my

life. Camaro SS, WRX, all manual except

the Jag. But anyway, he's had a lot of

cool things. Where are we? So, for what

I define for Dan as kind of the fun

daily four-door is kind of the category

I put this in.

>> I'm with you. Fun daily four-door.

Actually, yes, my car fits for that.

Good. Excellent. Actually, all my

choices for you, Dan. I am going to

first get all the usual suspects out of

the way. There's only two usual suspects

to start with and that is the Genesis

G70 2.5T.

>> Okay,

>> that car there 50 new. They're probably

42 to 40 that much used. Yeah, you could

find a deal.

>> You've got a great car. Comfortable,

luxurious. It's the go-to car. I think

your wife would love driving it. You

wouldn't mind parking at the airport.

And I'm going to quickly go to the TLX

Type S because also great to drive. You

said you don't well you need back seats

occasionally. So you will hear some

complaining from whoever you put back

there, but just tell them

>> it's only for

>> we're almost there.

>> We're almost to dinner.

>> Yes. Agreed. Yes.

>> Two great cars you would do well.

>> Mhm.

>> They're just not as exciting as the one

that I really want for you. I'm going to

spend all my time talking about it and

it's a car that I've never actually

recommended on the podcast before.

>> Go.

>> It is the MercedesBenz E450 Formatic

allterrain.

>> Oh, wow. You went very specific.

>> Very specific. I didn't realize how cool

these are because look at this,

>> Dan. You have 375 horsepower, 369 lb

feet of torque from the 3 L inline 6.

And guess what? They're still building

them.

>> You can go get yourself,

>> okay,

>> a 2021

for as low as $35,000.

>> Seriously, cuz cuz I always think AMGs

when I think of the big Mercedes wagons,

but you're below that and you've got a

much more usable and and farm has

triggered you here. farm has triggered

me for the wheel wheel arch, the the

cladding.

>> It's like the cross country thing that

Volvo does. Correct. Or the all-road

that Audi does. It's that in Mercedes,

>> which I thought about those two. And I

thought maybe you could consider this,

but you just don't see these days.

That's very cool.

>> And you already have a Mercedes

Sprinter, so you could have two very

unique and very non-traditional

MercedesBenz examples. a Sprinter

>> and this the E450, not an AMG.

>> But as I dug into this car again, found

them for brand new, a 2026.

>> Okay.

>> $100,000.

>> Okay. All right.

>> It's a lot of money.

>> It is. But at the same time, that's

going to it's going to plummet in a

couple years as you've already proven

with your list.

>> It will. And here it is again. I mean,

just a little bit of gravel makes you

think, ah, farm, off-road, winter.

>> People are going to want to ride with

you. It's got space for They're very

>> anything.

>> This is a fourperson and gear car. Yes.

>> Luxurious enough. It's great for

on-road, great for mild off-roading.

>> So, I dug in further and thought, "Okay,

it's been going."

>> For those of you that are listening,

Paul has a a like a full car deck worth

of just images of this Mercedes that I

don't even think I've ever seen one

image of, and you've got all of them. I

love it. It's great. From what I can

tell, the early 2021s,

that interior

has the IP that we're kind of used to

current Mercedes having. It's the MBU

system, which I really like.

>> It's very good.

>> It's the instrument panel. I'm just

describing it for those of you

listening. It's got the quad air vents

right in the middle. It's got the great

steering wheel. It's, you know, that

that nice wood panel across the the

instrument panel. And it still looks

actually pretty modern. Well, when they

introduced the super wide screen that

now everyone has, BMW has it in the M

cars, Mustang has it in the Mustang, but

Mercedes was the first to do like the

double wide screen.

>> Double wide screen here,

>> the letter box thing. It's got all kinds

of stuff in it. The inbox system is very

very good.

>> Feels modern still. Looks great.

>> And I kept digging.

>> These E450s also come with the new

newish upgraded

>> instrument panel

>> with the waterfall feel that is the

brand new one.

It has the waterfall. It's almost like a

reverse waterfall. So, you've still got

the hoodless

>> uh instrument panel, that hoodless

screen right in front of you, just a

single panel. And then off to the side,

you've got the the main larger screen

that's in the current SL's and the a new

upgra upgraded

>> all of the the materials, steering

wheel,

>> still looks great, feels even a little

bit more luxurious. Pin striping on the

dash. And then I came across the 2026

>> model selling this and they're still

updating the interior.

>> Three instrument panel designs for one

car.

>> That's astonishing

>> in this 5year model range from 2021

>> to 2026.

>> There's two photos here I've got because

you can option this interior. It's just

like the EQS450 interior like you were

just talking about. You can choose wood,

but you can choose the glass panel that

spans the entire dash.

>> This is also an E450 formatic

allterrain.

>> Unbelievable. I have I I don't think

I've ever seen one model with this many

interiors instrument such a short period

of time.

>> Now again, there's a range of prices.

>> Of course, and I would go with the the

traditional early inbox personally, but

whatever.

>> Traditional old style,

>> cuz it was great.

>> Look at this. three different instrument

panels. There's the the middle one which

I believe was pretty short-lived.

>> Yeah.

>> The waterfall style and then the one

that where they started out with which

was

>> end of the the as really and still

relevant, cool, interesting, the great

screen, that palm rest on the center

console.

>> Yeah.

>> But all these different interiors for

the same car. Pick your price range,

pick the luxury, pick your your

amenities, and you have a load of

options on autotempus.com.

>> That's amazing. I didn't even know this

car existed, let alone all that. I I

love when we bump into those. It's

really cool.

>> Formatic all-wheel drive. It's You can

get it dirty.

>> Yeah, you can. Sure. I love it.

>> You can take it to dinner and it is the

car you can park at the airport. And a

Mercedes wagon. Well, it's first of all,

it's a wagon. It's unique and cool

>> and usable. Yeah.

>> And you won't mind parking at the

airport. Nobody will give it a second

look. Well, it's just a Mercedes wagon,

but man, usable for you guys because you

need function just as much as you need

this style.

>> Look at you. You did very, very well

there. I really do like that. That's

excellent. I did not know anything about

that car.

>> Just like the EQS. Totally agree. You

can get

>> Amazing. Essentially, just pick your

interior of the last decade and then

just get it in this car. Just find the

right era and off you go. That's

>> exactly. It's a $100,000 car at this

point, but

>> the brand new one, but he doesn't need

to get anywhere close to that. I totally

agree. Yeah,

>> absolutely. Well, let me see what I'm

going to do here. First off, I want to

go through some of the things on your

list that you're a little worried about.

I look, I like the E39 M5. It's hard to

not. That's one of those iconic cars

from the best of BMW. I don't think you

want to have that as your put miles on,

bang around daily.

>> Your leave at the airport. I don't think

that's right. I also think that the

Panamera Sport Turismo is out. Look, if

the 911's out and she's worried about

things that are over the top, the

Panamera Sport Turismo is a fantastic

wagon. Wagon. I'm a huge fan. is one of

my very favorites, but I think that's a

bit shouty.

>> Okay.

>> As is the uh the Blackwing, I think, is

a bit shouty. Even though I like the

Blackwing a lot.

>> It's good.

>> And the Blackwing you, that's the other

thing about it. The Blackwing, I think

it shines even more when you go out to

drive it for fun. You need a daily.

Okay. The Blackwing is that car like

like the old M5, frankly, that surprises

you with how good it is because you're

driving it hard right now.

>> Mhm. This is your very nice daily and

airport car, but it can't be too nice

because then you don't want to put the

dogs in it and then when you're sitting

in traffic, you're frustrated by it. So,

it's we're in a weird category here. So,

I'm going to jump into a couple of them.

I do think that the Audi RS3 needs to be

high high on the list. You can get RS3s.

They have the interesting five-cylinder.

The RS3 is to anybody that doesn't know,

it's just a little Audi. I just You park

that at the airport, it gets unnoticed.

Nobody cares.

>> Yeah.

>> But yet when you get to drive it for fun

or wind that engine out, you're gonna

love it.

>> And you can throw stuff in the back. I

mean, the back seats are going to be

leather. It's still like, "What is the

dog doing? Put a put a nice cover down."

I get it. But but the the the great

thing I like about the RS3 is the fact

that it it can blend with traffic.

>> People that don't know what it is will

never look twice. It's a perfectly good

airport car, but yet still fun. And

yeah, it's an Audi, but it's not super

flashy because it's the something about

being the small one. It gets away with

it. You know what I mean? It doesn't

seem that flashy because it's little.

>> The Alpha Julia all-wheel drive, you

mentioned it, so I'm going to hit on it

again. You can't go wrong with this car.

Now, the reality is the all-wheel drive

is only the base engine. I've said it

before and I'll say it again. I think

that car feels more powerful than the

stats suggest, but this is a great

looking car and it is really good to

drive. And in all-wheel drive, you can

just drive it. We actually rented one on

Turo years back and it was fine. The guy

had it was like his Turo like throw

miles rent this car constantly and it

was fine. So, I really think that the

all-wheel drive Julia is going to add a

little bit of specialness to a car you

can also just use as a daily. But I

think my favorite for you is this.

>> So,

>> you had it already, Paul. I've got to

bring it up again. The Acura TLX Type S.

The problem we have with this car is we

are big guys. You said you had an NB

Mazda Speed Miata. So, I'm suggesting

that you're probably not as big as we

are,

>> right? Yeah.

>> If you're not as big as we are, the back

seats become usable in this.

>> But it's mostly just the two of you.

>> And the reality is the two of you in

this car are going to be fine.

>> Very happy.

>> You're using it as a daily. It actually

has a pretty good size trunk and not

great back seats. Costco runs a work

It's It's a Honda product. You throw the

dog in the back, it's going to run. The

dynamics of this car are very

surprising. They're much better than you

would think for a front-wheel drive bias

chap chassis. But this is the super

handling all-wheel drive, which Acura

does wonderfully well. I like your

Integra Type S. You brought it up, but

there's two problems I have with that.

It's not all-wheel drive, which you

don't say you have to have, but you'd

like to have, and it's manual.

>> This is all-wheel drive and auto.

And the the TLX Type S is another one of

those cars kind of like where I started

with the RS3 where car people know and

everybody else looked right by it. You

park this at the airport, no one cares.

Okay. Totally. But I every time we get

one of these as a press car, we we kind

of fight over it cuz we love driving it.

>> Yeah. It's great. You're right.

>> We just wish it was a four-door with

more back seat space, but that's not

really your primary usage. So, I think

you're done right here.

>> Great choices. Wow. All right, Dan,

you've got some decision making to do.

really appreciate your email. Like I

say, if you've got an email like Dan,

like Ian's, write to us.

[email protected].

I will admit, I've got a little bit of

uh of how do I put this? I'm a little uh

hair trigger sometimes and we get our

emails or we get YouTube comments. I

kind of expect the worst. When they come

in like they're swinging elbows, I kind

of brace myself. This is one of those

moments and then it makes me laugh. The

car conclusion here from Patrick is that

it's all my fault. He says it's all

Todd's fault. He's writing in because uh

he we've covered his car debate a while

back and we came down to two cars for

him and he was debating between the

Lotus Elise and the C6 generation Z06.

That's one of the big 7 liter. That's

the big old engine, the 427 that you

want that's got all the power that I

actually I'm a huge fan of that car. I

mean, those those are opposite ends of

the spectrum for

>> they are, but it was all my fault and uh

and so he was debating between those two

and he decided to get himself an orange

Lotus Elise with the optional hard top

about a year ago, last November. Okay.

And at first it was everything he ever

wanted. He loved it. His wife loved it.

His eldest son loved it. They were

having a great time.

But then he realized this is dangerous

to commute in. No one can see him. You

have an orange one. Look, I have a

yellow one. I know this. Having a gray

or a black one has to be a death

sentence

>> because at least a bright color you can

kind of see or you can yell at the

person like, "What? You don't see the

big rolling flag here? What is going

on?" You had a bright orange one and you

said you realize sometimes you were

getting dirty looks and comments from

other people because they thought it was

crazy expensive and even though you know

it isn't. So, you were kind of getting

looked like what that crazy car you

bought. And then nobody could see you in

traffic and it was frustrating you and

annoying them. So you started to

actually use it a little bit less. Then

your twins were growing out of most of

their infant stuff. It needed more

storage space. And inevitably when you

would occasionally drive the Lotus to

work, your wife would call and say, "I

need you to pick up the twins, but

you're not doing any Elise." So you'd

have to drive the Elise home to pick up

a different car to take it to get the

twins and any of the other the other

kids or any stuff. So that was an issue.

Then here is the interesting thing.

You had a situation where for about six

weeks straight you didn't get to drive

it. It just didn't work for commute, for

life, for whatever. For six weeks it sat

and you realized

>> that part was not your fault.

>> No, that's just that wasn't my fault. I

didn't have anything.

>> No, no, I didn't have anything to do

with that. Not my fault. But but you

didn't drive this car for 6 weeks and

you suddenly realized you were relieved.

you were relieved you weren't driving it

because you realized the stress of

having it was just it was overwhelming

the fact that when you drive it in the

right situation it was perfect. So you

realized that was the perfect time to

sell the car. You were going to list it

and then for some unknown reason I' I'd

love to hear the story of why this

happened. Your dad suddenly said, "You

know what I think are really cool? Lotus

Elise." And he started sending you

random postings of people selling lot

like look at this one. Look at this one.

He went, "Wait a minute. Wait, wait,

wait. Hang on. Dad, would you like to

buy my Elise?"

>> So, dad buys the Elise. And what's

interesting is Patrick's whole family

was more bummed to see it go than

anybody else, but it went to his dad.

So, now the kids are excited that

grandpa has it, but they keep going,

"Well, where' the little orange fun car

go?" This hit a nerve with the whole

family. Dad may have the Elise now, but

his wife kind of realized after it left

how much she liked it. And now her dream

cars because of having an Elise are now

I love this. A Lotus Amir or maybe a

McLaren. You got her interested in

British cars. I have no idea. I I don't

think I did this by the way. But anyway,

but having the Elise influenced that and

the kids were really bummed. His oldest

son was really sad to see it go. He kept

asking about the orange race car. And so

as a kind of a way to try to solve that,

they started watching IMSA races. And

now his his eldest son loves Rexi, which

is that green 911 painted like the

T-Rex. Loves that. He now has a poster

of Rexi on his wall and has declared

that the orange 911 GT3 is his future

dream car. So mom wants either an Amira

or a McLaren. His son wants a 911. Okay.

So they were thinking they couldn't have

any more fun. Kind of resigned to five

seat CUVS. And then after a major work

project, he found himself surfing

through videos on the Elise. Why are you

doing this to yourself? And the Corvette

came up again.

>> I'm smiling. This is

>> This is ridiculously funny.

>> Well, Patrick writes he'd been saving up

for a home improvement project, but

decided that what they wanted to do

wasn't a smart use of their money.

>> Too much for the neighborhood that they

live in. It was around that time that

our recent Lotus Amira versus Cayman GT4

video dropped.

>> The first of our Kota piece. Yeah. And

what changed his mind about another car

was when I apparently looked straight

into the camera and I said so about

talking about the additional cost and

sacrifice needed to own your dream car.

>> Well, and also you were talking about

the fact of driving it. You were talking

about the fact it's going to get dirty

and burn stuff and go through

consumables and you were like and

>> so when Patrick and his wife sat down to

talk about what to do with the money

they had saved up and now that they

weren't going to do the home improvement

project, Patrick threw out the idea of

buying a Corvette. M

>> his reasoning was that they had already

planned to spend the money, so why not

spend it on something both of them can

enjoy.

>> Interesting.

>> He writes they have been going to the

Rolex 24 hours of Daytona since they

first started dating when they went to

college in Daytona Beach.

>> Uh going to the event in Daytona Beach.

The Corvettes have always been

thunderously loud. So much so you feel

the base of the vibration in your chest

before you actually hear the sound of it

of the engine as it's coming towards

you. You can hear them the furthest away

from the track compared to any of the

other cars combined with the classic GT

proportions and Patrick's own enthusiasm

for Corvettes. So, his wife fell in love

with them as well. And she had no

argument. Yes, let's get a Corvette. I

love this. This is amazing. We're not

going to fix that on the house. Let's

buy a vet. Within two weeks of that

pronouncement, Patrick was in Chicago

buying a yellow C6 Z06 and road tripping

at home.

>> I love it. The total cost was within 500

bucks with the Lotus cost approximately

$42,000. And guess what? It gets driven

all the time. More often than not, his

wife is the one driving it as Patrick

still makes the daycare run four days a

week while she works from home. In one

month, they've put over 2,000 miles on

it. His son loves it even more than the

Lotus. Okay.

>> He's like a little Ricky Bobby.

>> His pair of 18 months month olds go

vroom vroom every time they see it. So,

what started off as a conundrum that was

all your fault, Todd, has been resolved

by listening to my advice about stop

thinking about how much it's going to

cost. I have to do that because I I

can't allow myself. I'll lose even more

hair, I guess.

>> Well, but but he says, not only is he

can he not believe he's owned both these

cars. He always thought about owning an

Elise. He's had one. He really did like

it in spite of the fact it didn't work

for his life. Now, he has this Z06. He

says, "How have I owned these two cars?"

And then he kind of zooms out for us for

a second and goes, he has a Z06. His dad

has an Elise. His wife wants a McLaren.

His eldest son wants a Porsche. And his

twins make race car noises and giggle

when they see fun cars. We have

officially infected the entire family

with a car disease. And he says he he

thinks he's grateful, but more than

anything, the thing that's best here is

that Patrick closes off his email by

says,

>> "Please never stop being automotively

irresponsible. We are that all the time.

But we're thrilled that ultimately you

found a car you love, your wife loves,

and I just love that you guys have kind

of rallied around with cars. We've

talked about this so many times. It is

one of the rare, I hate to say it this

way, non-political, non-religious,

non-fighting words things we can all

talk about. It is amazing how cars cross

all strata. And I love that you've had

these cars. What a really cool pairing.

What a cool story. And yes, you're

right, Patrick. The Lotus Elise is a

sacrifice to own. It is. It just is.

Thanks for letting us spend your money,

Patrick. I guess

>> that's very good. Yep. Moving on to car

conclusion number two from Paul S in

Chicago from episode 109.

>> If you've listened that long, thank you.

You will also remember Paul had that

handme-down BMW M3

>> way back. So much fun of it because he

had an older brother was like, "Here,

would you like an M3?" And we were like,

"Wait, wait, wait. The E46 that

everybody wants." Your brother's like,

"Yeah, I just want you to have it."

>> So, we met Paul in August 2016 at the

Ottabon Country Club. That was one of

our first track day events there.

>> That may have been our first ever thing

that we kind of coined as an adventure

after that. It was like one of our first

ever times we met fans. It was very

cool. Yeah. So, 109, episode 109. Again,

older brother gifted him an ' 06 E46 M3

manual. He was mulling about an S550

Ford Mustang GT manual or a Fiesta ST.

Todd, your advice was to ask Paul's

brother if he could sell the M M3 and

buy the S550 Mustang

>> because he was obsessed with that

Mustang. That's the car he wanted. Yeah,

>> of course. My advice was to sell the M3

and buy both cars, the Fiesta and the

Mustang. You want both, buy both.

>> Yes.

>> Stop thinking about the cost.

>> So, apparently in in more than a decade,

we haven't really changed much or

learned much of anything. We still can

do these ridiculous things. Yep. Okay.

Well, Paul in Chicago ended up buying

the Fiesta in 2017 to use as a daily and

keeping the M3 for weekend fun driving.

>> Okay.

>> He was content with the Fiesta purchase,

but still curious about the Mustang. So,

he test drove the S550 that he had in

his mind. He's set on buying it, and he

wasn't impressed. It was a hero car, and

he met it and and was like, "Wait a

minute. This has 100 more horsepower

than his M3, and the M3 felt quicker.

The response to the inputs felt better

on the M3 as well." He was like, "Wait a

minute. That's us. There we are looking

significantly younger. For those of you

that are watching the video are like,

"Wow, those 10 years have gone by hard."

Anyway, but he had he had this kind of

realization moment of you have to do the

test drive because he had just he

lionized this S550 Mustang, drove it,

and went, "Nope, not for me." Which is

crazy. Yeah. Around 2021, his brother

eventually asked to take back the M3.

Aha. We knew there was a catch.

And so Paul was without any rear wheel

drive fun. And Paul, well, his brother

has not strayed from the Mercedes camp.

He has had multiple. He's now got a CLE

53.

>> The BMW is the only thing. He he moved

from the BMW to a string of Mercedes,

but he's now asked for the M3 back. So

rear wheel drive leaves Paul's life.

Yeah.

>> So Paul's Fiesta, he still's got it.

He's He lost the racing stripes. It's

completely stock. and he found during

his daily internet car browsing

adventures his ideal sixth gen Camaro in

Madison, Wisconsin. Not the 1LE, the

Trackspec 1LE, but the 2SS. It was on

the midcycle refresh version with a

controversial facelift about 12,000 mi

on the odometer. He had a black accent

package, moon roof, dual mode exhaust,

and something called a battery

protection package.

Sure. Sure. Or what I what I find

interesting about this is you're

probably sitting here wondering, "Wait a

minute, we were in Fordland,

>> Fiestas and Mustangs. Why'd you buy a

Camaro?" It's because in the middle

between then and now, he had an

opportunity to drive a Camaro randomly.

His family met up for for dinner one

night and his aunt had a rental car

Camaro in her possession. He thinks she

just rented it because she was like, "I

looks cool." So, he got to drive a sixth

gen Camaro that she had rented. He was

just like, I I hey, test drives are

interesting. I should do one. And he was

shocked by the fact that it felt kind of

the way the Mustang should have in his

mind.

>> Yeah.

>> So, he kind of filed that away. And so,

when he got around to actually buying

something, he was looking at Camaros and

he found this SS and he got it. It was

supposed to be $50,000. He paid 41. Good

for you. Before taxes. Excellent. He is

in love with it. What's interesting is

the the story takes a bit of a turn here

because somewhere in the midst of this,

he happened to go to Hawking Hills,

which we've driven.

>> Yeah.

>> He went with his Fiesta and chased a

buddy who had a brand new 992 GTS 911.

And he was thrilled that his little

2700lb Fiesta ST could keep up with the

911.

But now he can't wait to take the Camaro

because he said it works in everything.

Seats are comfy and bolstered, but also

have heating and cooling. It's got the

big 6.2 L V8 that he thinks would be

amazing for highway speeds to get to fun

roads. And then of course the car is

agile enough to do the fun roads.

Head-up display, goodiz trunk, even

though narrow opening, all the features

he wanted, plus the V8 rumble, and he

got honestly the pony car feel he was

hoping for in the Mustang. He found it

in the Camaro. That's really cool. He

says he gets challenged for street

racing because apparently owners of

these cars are known for street racing

them. So he gets challenged. She's

gotten some nails in the tires, but he

said, "Thank us for featuring his car

debate 10 years ago." Paul, thank you

for writing. We really

>> really appreciate it. And I'm glad that

there was such a long gestation period.

And I love if any of you have had

debates from us, please still write to

us car conclusions. We love seeing the

throughine, what you've had over the

years. You've

>> bought the thing we recommended and two

or three or four cars later you bought

something else. We love hearing those

those stories, too. and he still has

that Fiesta and now he's added this

Camaro and he loves them both. I love

that you have two cars you like. I also

think it's interesting you have both

Ford and Chevy in your garage

representing and they're representing

pinnacle cars they no longer make.

>> Really cool.

>> The Fiesta ST is is a pinnacle Ford

product. Still can't believe how great

that car is. And the Camaro SS

unfortunately is dead. And you've

probably seen the rumors recently. They

say it's coming back. And Chevy is

talking about how we'd like to have the

success that the Mache is having. We

should do that with the Camaro.

>> We said it already. We We already We We

called the shot. And I'm afraid we might

be right, but we'll see.

>> Chevy, bring back the K5 Blazer. Just

call it the K5.

>> Just call it the K5. Make it look like a

Blazer.

>> Kia K5 and K4 now, too.

>> K5 Blazer. Bring back the Blazer. Bring

back the Camaro. Make it cool.

>> We'll see.

>> Every so often, we've got to cover the

new category. Did you see this? And I

thought this was notable. We didn't get

to this for our Mterrey Car Week

episode. I'm really intrigued by this.

>> It's the It's It's totally the kind of

thing you love. I get it. It's great.

>> It combines my love of art and design

with classic cars. This was on display

by a gentleman named Ben Tuna. He is the

glass cowboy, the glasscowboy.com. He's

got an Instagram that's fascinating, but

he is currently

doing stained glass artwork in the

windows of vintage cars.

>> Now, this one he displayed at Monterey

Car Week. This is a 1965 911 that he

found as a derelict in Ohio somewhere,

but he has also started to acquire some

of the burnedout cars from the fires in

Pacific Palisades in Los Angeles back in

January 2025. He is collecting these

cars and doing a series of them,

>> designing and doing installations of

stained glass because obviously the cars

aren't going to get restored. This again

was not one of the fire cars. This was a

derelict car. I look forward to seeing

future cars from him. But I am

fascinated. The article on this

described how he took over this stained

glass business from his dad because he

grew up doing this

>> and his dad taught him everything. He

deals with all kinds of injuries to his

hands in this day and age of

>> doing manual labor for the art. It it

comes back to me for for Michelangelo.

Not only did he

>> build the structures, his scaffolding to

paint the cyine chapel,

>> but he also went and collected all the

ingredients to make his own paints.

>> Yeah.

>> In the age of creating digital art and

AI, that's not something you can do

here. It does not apply. The article is

fascinating. Very original to me.

>> Agreed. The article was fascinating

because this is kind of his passion

project is to do these cars, but this is

a guy who now is in demand. I mean, he's

in LA, which helps, but he's now in

demand. Like people's high-end homes,

they're putting in a stained glass panel

here and there. So, he's in demand all

the time. And he's doing these on the

side. And he obviously also takes

commissions. But fascinating to to see

when those old school projects or old

school skills,

>> the things you do with your hands that

you have to be taught apprentice style,

that doesn't exist anymore. And here are

people making a living from it. That is

really amazing.

>> We've got a few audience questions. I'm

going to start here with Kyle Anderson

who's asking me a Lotus Elise question.

He said, "When the Lotus Elise was new

in 2005, the base model was $43,500."

He said, "That is based on inflation the

equivalent of $72,000 today."

>> Wow.

>> Okay.

>> Wow.

>> What is the most eye-catching or even

potentially exotic performance car you

can get new today for $72,000?

And does it come close to being as

special as the Elise was when it was

sold in 2005? And then the same

question, but for used cars, $72,000.

Can you come close to the exotic

impression or special impression the

Elise gave? These are his words, not

mine. And there are those of you out

there that hate it when I talk about the

Lotus Elise. I'm back. The thing is,

$72,000 gets you uh a Supra. It gets you

a Nismo Z.

>> Mhm. Mhm.

>> It almost gets you a Darkhorse Mustang,

but I don't think any of those are

actually as exotic and unique looking as

the Elise. I think the Supra,

looks-wise, the Supra comes closest

lookswise to seeming exotic at 72 grand,

but $72,000, I don't think there's

anything that is as headturning new as

the Elise was in its time because the

Elise was so weird and small and exotic

looking. 72 grand new. I don't think

there's anything else that does it. You

know, actually, I think, you know, the

closest one I can think of, and the only

reason it it is an exotic is because we

see so many is actually the Miata RF. It

is interesting enough. I wish it came in

Skittles colors. If that came in a

Skittles color,

>> I think it would do it.

>> I see.

>> Because it has enough. It's small. It's

unique. The RF has enough flowing lines

that I think are going to be timeless

that if that came in the yellows, the

oranges, the the the krypton greens that

the Elise came in, I think that car

could pull it off. But it doesn't come

in the right colors for it. And we see

enough Miatas that we just go I think

the general public just goes, "That's a

Miata.

I think we're kind of over it, but in

the right colors that could do it. Used,

you could get an Ivora and that feels

weird to people. I think the Evora

works.

>> The Avore is good.

>> I don't think that I think the Caymans

and Boxers and 911s are too common. I

think I think enough people have seen

them that they're not as head turning as

the Elise would be.

>> This is hard.

>> Great thought exercise.

>> Yeah. I've got a question on Facebook

from Kirk Meyer asking, "What cars from

2010 to today would best wear T-tops?

Oh, I like that.

>> All the same ones that wore them then.

>> Yeah. New Supra. Where's the T-tops?

>> Supra. Nissan Z.

>> I like it.

>> A Corvette.

>> Yeah. Even though the targets that the

Corvette pulls off is awesome, but that

is good.

>> T-tops on a vet. Yep.

>> T-tops on the Mercedes GT.

>> Oh, I like that. Oh, that's good. I like

that one a lot.

Going back, let's bring back Aston some

vantage and make it a little bit

>> Oh, the T-top Mercedes is resonating

with me like crazy.

>> Mercedes could be cool.

>> The T-top Mercedes GT would be killer.

The problem with the target is you got

this long beam of body you have to put

somewhere. The T-tops, cuz they're half

that size, stack. Yes.

>> And they're much easier to store.

>> Much better.

>> Much easier.

>> You can do glass panels. You can Oh,

>> it's endless. It's exciting.

>> The Mercedes GT.

>> That's very cool. I like that a lot.

>> What else? Oh, I've got a question from

Peter Ronus. He's our friend. He is in

Australia.

>> Yep.

>> And he asks, "If we were in the witness

protection program, what car would we

buy that subscribes to the everyday

driver ethos?"

>> So, it's got to be a car that isn't

noticeable, but is good dynamically.

>> Correct. And it has to be

>> somewhat daily usable. Even though we

have described if you drive that car

daily or somewhat daily low to high cost

that is your everyday driver. So that

does include crazy expensive cars if

you're dailying them truly those those

do count

>> but for the most part it doesn't mean

something really exotic.

>> I can think of two actually witness

protection cars that are legitimately

good to drive. One

>> it's a polestar engineered Volvo.

>> Nobody looks at a Volvo and goes that

guy. Nobody cares. But Polestar

Engineered is good with the adjustable

and stuff. True. That's good. The other

one that that may be the winner

>> is the Chevy SS.

>> Nobody cares. No one looks twice and

you're going to love driving it. Would a

Hellcat Charger count? I think it's

because it you notice it, but you're

intimidated by it and so you look away.

So like, oo, I don't know who that is.

Run away. Well, but see the the problem

is I think I don't think you notice.

That's the problem. The Volvo you look

right past and the Chevy SS if you

notice, you think it's an undercover cop

and so you look away if you notice. You

probably don't even notice cuz you think

it's a rental car. You you think it's a

rental Malibu,

>> but it's the SS underneath.

>> It's the SS. Exactly.

>> That's really good.

>> I think that may be the answer.

>> Would a Blackwing work here? CT4V

Blackwing.

>> Would that work?

>> Here's the thing. The Blackwing works in

10 years. It's too new right now. In 10

years, you bought a used Cadillac and

nobody cares.

>> Everybody, everybody think right now a

10-year-old Cadillac, you don't care

anymore. A new one, depending upon the

styling and have you seen them? Yeah,

especially the V series, they're kind of

notable.

>> 10 years from now, Blackwing, nobody

notices.

I've

>> also got a question. Kyle Bliss on

Facebook asking, "What's our idea of the

best could have been car?"

>> The example he gives is like a Plymouth

Prowler. Well, it could have been

awesome if they'd only shoved a V8 in

>> V8 with a manual. Sure. Yeah.

>> I think the Miata is and remains a could

have been car.

>> Not because of engine, but because of

size.

>> Interesting. Everyone we talked to, us

included, if only the seats were lower.

If only it were a little bit longer. If

only I just need two more inches. Could

you, Mazda, could you just give me two

more inches? You want the NC, the third

gen over and over and over. You want

that that scale.

>> That but just slightly ever so slightly

bigger.

>> I I see it. I

>> It's the Miata at 120% scale.

>> I like that the Miata holds the line

even though I don't fit. I do like that

it holds the line and says to

manufacturers, you can still make small

and lightweight in spite of modern tech.

I do like Mazda.

>> If they gave us two inches in lower

seats and kept it the same weight, could

they do it?

>> Yeah, that's a good question. All right,

I see it.

>> Would that be like

Finally. Finally. But it screws up the

wheelbase, too.

>> Yep. There were a series of I I think it

was called a 103. I don't know why it's

in my brain. Maybe that's wrong. But but

Chevy introduced in the right around the

time the F FRS came out, they had a

concept looked kind of like the 2 series

BMW that was supposed to be below the

Camaro.

It was this rearwheel drive two seat

concept. And it at the time the concept

looked pretty close to production and

then it vanished. I was like, what? But

you were you were so close. We were so

close. Like there it was like sitting on

the stand like really close and then it

died. That's not actually entirely to

the question, but it's one that jumped

to my mind.

>> My standout car is the current C8

Stingray.

>> Okay.

>> The Corvette Stingray

>> is a could have been. And the reason I

say that is because nobody consulted me

about the design brief and Golf, but if

you take Golf out, you get 75% scale.

>> Yes. And oh, it could have been so

amazing. Lightweight with a manual

transmission.

>> It's lighter and looks better if you

take Golf out. You're right. You're

right. You're totally right. Yeah.

>> Keep the V8. Chop the back off. Make it

look McLarenish. I mean, the Mans I get

you. I get you.

>> Chop that golf trunk off

>> and we're ah slightly smaller scale. You

can keep everything else about it. It's

still easy to get into. When you get

into a C8, there's gobs of space.

There's loads of room.

>> Yeah.

>> Still keep the frunk. Maybe a tiny a

smaller frunk or or a smaller trunk.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

>> Maybe no trunk, but it's a sports car.

It go do sports car things with it.

>> Totally. Smaller. Lighter.

>> It could have been.

>> Well, while while we're at the could

have been, you got me thinking about

current new stuff. I have to say this. I

I I'm sorry, but

>> the dark horse Mustang could have been

something awesome

>> because keep keep in mind think what

Ford was coming from.

>> GT 350 350R. Phenomenal. Follow that up

with the Mach 1. Not the engine, but

everything else from the GT350. Mach 1,

a fantastic car. Yes. You jump off of

it. This is what Corvette always did

really well. The last Corvette of any

generation was the like the benchmark.

That was like the the bones of the next

Corvette they made. And they made the

next Corvette even better in base model

because they based it off the last one.

How did we go from GT350, GT350R, Mach 1

to Darkhorse?

It's bigger. The interior is worse.

There's no steering feel. It drives big.

>> It drives worse. It drives worse than

the Mach 1. Oh, absolutely it does. It

drives worse than a lot of that

generation, but especially the Mach 1

and the GT350. The The Dark And and

here's the thing. The Darkhorse looks

cool and it has that cool name and it

has that cool paint. There's so many

things about Did you know Ford's coming

out with a new Mustang? It's going to be

called the Dark Horse. And you're coming

off the Mach 1 going, "Bring that."

>> Now that we've talked about SUVs, the

Chevy Blazer.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> It could have been a K5 Blazer. to

compete against a Bronco, a Wrangler,

and the new Scout

>> because it came out because it came out

after the Bronco. It's obvious.

>> Yes. Blazer.

>> It could have been both internal

combustion and EV. It could have been

just the squared off K5 K5 Blazer.

>> Yeah.

>> Everybody would have bought that. Make

it small. Well, still make it big. Make

it huge. I don't care.

>> It doesn't matter. Yeah.

>> Make it the old Blazer. Just like the

Camaro SUV. Yeah. Not good. H. And then

now we have the new it's a blazer in

name only. And then

>> there's still time. There's still time.

>> You could always correct. Correct.

Correct. Correct. Yes.

>> Thank you guys for watching. Really

appreciate all your questions. Thank you

so much for sharing the podcast, for

rating and reviewing.

>> We definitely appreciate your patronage,

your support. Thank you so much. We're

always looking forward to next time.

Cheers, everyone.

[Music]

Top 5 SUVs - Most Fun Under $50K, Craving Something Unique, Turning Derelict Cars Into Art | Episode 1,009

About this episode

B58

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from Everyday Driver Car Debate