Towing heavy loads can be daunting, but this episode reveals essential insights from over a decade of towing tests. The hosts discuss the importance of brake controllers, tongue weight, and legal limitations when selecting a towing vehicle. They share a compelling story about a recent press event that highlighted misconceptions about towing capacity. With practical advice for compact, mid-sized, and heavy-duty trucks, as well as SUVs and EVs, listeners will gain valuable knowledge to avoid damaging their vehicles while towing.
( https://www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! In this episode of TFL Talkin' Trucks, we are diving deep into the world of towing! Whether you're hauling a small utility trailer or a massive 5th wheel, towing can be one of the most stressful things you do with your pickup. We break down our top tips for towing safely, from choosing the right hitch to managing your tongue weight.
We also discuss the legendary Ike Gauntlet™—the world's toughest towing test. Why do we go to 11,158 feet in the Colorado Rockies to push these trucks to the limit? We explain what we've learned from years of testing half-tons and HD trucks on the "Ike" and how that data helps you decide which truck you actually need for your next camping trip or job site.
"...I don't want to throw any manufacturer out of the bus so I won't need the manufacturers name them. [SPE..."
The Volkswagen Bus is a classic, boxy van that people love for its fun look and the ability to carry a lot of people. It’s famous for its history and is often seen at festivals.
The Volkswagen Bus, also known as the VW Type 2, is an iconic vehicle recognized for its unique design and cultural significance. It has a rich history and is often associated with the counterculture movement of the 1960s.
"...without a brake controller, you can really only tow 3,000 pounds. Well, so I'm assuming that the CV has a hitch..."
A brake controller helps you control how much the trailer's brakes work when you're towing it. This is important for stopping safely, especially if the trailer is heavy.
A brake controller is a device that regulates the braking power applied to a trailer's brakes when being towed. It allows the driver to adjust the braking force based on the weight of the trailer and the driving conditions, improving safety and control while towing.
Diesel trucks run on diesel fuel and are known for being strong and efficient. They are great for towing heavy things and doing tough jobs.
Diesel trucks use a diesel engine, which is known for its fuel efficiency and torque. They are often preferred for towing and heavy-duty applications due to their power and durability.
"...which is a 7 pin, which is appropriate. But what it doesn't have is an actual button..."
A 7 pin connector is a plug that connects your car to a trailer. It helps control things like the trailer's lights and brakes when you're towing it.
A 7 pin connector is a type of electrical connector commonly used for towing trailers. It provides connections for various functions such as brake lights, turn signals, and trailer brakes, ensuring proper communication between the tow vehicle and the trailer.
"...at the top of the list, until this week was either the Bentayga. Yes, which is cool. I don't know. Nothing wrong with the Bentayga."
The Bentley Bentayga is a very fancy SUV that is known for being luxurious and powerful. It's designed for people who want a comfortable and stylish ride.
The Bentley Bentayga is a luxury SUV known for its opulence, performance, and advanced technology. It combines high-end materials with powerful engine options, making it a popular choice among affluent buyers.
The Porsche Cayenne Hybrid is a type of SUV that uses both a regular engine and an electric motor. This helps it use less gas and be better for the environment while still being fast and fun to drive.
The Porsche Cayenne Hybrid is a variant of the Cayenne SUV that combines a gasoline engine with an electric motor for improved fuel efficiency and reduced emissions. It offers the performance expected from Porsche while being more environmentally friendly.
"And then the third thing that they never mentioned is tongue weight. So I thought it'd be good to talk about all that, so people understand why when you're choosing a toe rig, these three things are very important because they all come down to how much you can tell."
Tongue weight is how much weight is pressing down on the hitch of your vehicle from the trailer. It's important to get this right for safe towing.
Tongue weight refers to the downward force that the tongue of a trailer exerts on the hitch of the towing vehicle. It's crucial for safe towing, as improper tongue weight can lead to instability and control issues while driving.
"But I imagine that the engineering team and the CEO they looked at it and they said we have a full size SCV and it has the big engine. Yes, it has a nice transmission."
A full-size SUV is a big vehicle that can carry a lot of people and stuff. It's usually stronger and can tow heavy things, like trailers.
A full-size SUV is a larger sport utility vehicle that typically offers more passenger and cargo space compared to mid-size and compact SUVs. They often come with powerful engines and are designed for towing and off-road capabilities.
"Yes, it has a nice transmission. Yes, it has a lot of cooling."
The transmission is what helps the car change gears so it can go faster or slower. It's an important part that connects the engine to the wheels.
The transmission is a crucial component of a vehicle that transfers power from the engine to the wheels. It allows the vehicle to change gears, which is essential for controlling speed and torque.
The suspension is the part of the car that helps it ride smoothly over bumps and keeps the tires on the ground. It makes driving more comfortable.
The suspension system of a vehicle is designed to support the weight of the vehicle, absorb shocks from the road, and maintain tire contact with the ground for better handling and comfort.
"So based on those factors, it could, it's rated, you know, they certified it to pull 8,000 pounds. That's great."
Towing capacity is how much weight a vehicle can pull behind it, like a trailer or boat. It's important to know so you don't overload the vehicle.
Towing capacity refers to the maximum weight a vehicle can safely tow. It is determined by the vehicle's engine power, transmission, and structural design.
"And if you're writing your brake, it's going to boil the brake fluid. It's going to boil the brakes."
Brake fluid is the liquid that helps your car's brakes work. When you press the brake pedal, this fluid moves through the brake system to help slow down or stop the car. If the brakes get too hot, the fluid can boil, which can cause problems.
Brake fluid is a hydraulic fluid used in brake systems to transfer force from the brake pedal to the brake components. When brakes are applied, the fluid helps create the necessary pressure to stop the vehicle. If the brakes overheat, the fluid can boil, leading to brake failure.
"...on the mountain highways we drive on the interstates, like the I-70, they have run away truck ramps for a reason, because semi-trucks have gigantic brakes, right?"
Runaway truck ramps are special areas on highways where big trucks can go if their brakes stop working. These ramps are made of soft materials like sand, which help slow the truck down safely, preventing accidents.
Runaway truck ramps are emergency escape routes designed for large trucks that have lost braking power. These ramps are typically made of gravel or sand and allow trucks to slow down safely without causing accidents. They are crucial on steep downhill grades where brakes may overheat and fail.
"And no matter how well a vehicle is engineered for the race track, it's not engineered to stop 8,000 pounds way pushing on its buck down hill exactly."
A towing vehicle is a car or truck that pulls a trailer. It needs to be strong enough to handle the weight of whatever it's towing.
A towing vehicle is any vehicle that is designed to pull a trailer or another vehicle. It must have sufficient power and braking capability to safely manage the weight of the load being towed.
"And so I think the first question that you need to ask yourself is does it have a break controller because without that you're by law, especially in California, you are limited to only 3,000 pounds in the police will check."
California has rules about how much weight you can tow and what equipment you need, like a brake controller. Knowing these rules helps you tow safely and legally.
California has specific laws regarding towing, including weight limits and the requirement for a brake controller when towing certain weights. Understanding these laws is essential for safe and legal towing.
"...the transmission will help you downshift and actually get a lower gear higher RPM on the downhill and try to bring it down you know slow it down but..."
Downshifting means changing to a lower gear in the car, which makes the engine work harder and helps slow the car down, especially when going downhill.
Downshifting is the process of shifting to a lower gear in a vehicle's transmission, which increases the engine's RPM and can help slow the vehicle down, especially on downhill slopes.
"...we'll talk about exhaust brakes when we get to the full size or heavy duty trucks depending on where we're at..."
An exhaust brake helps slow down big trucks by using the engine's exhaust to create pressure, making it easier to control speed without using the regular brakes.
An exhaust brake is a device used in heavy-duty vehicles that uses the engine's exhaust to create back pressure, which helps slow down the vehicle without using the traditional brake system, especially useful when towing or going downhill.
"...I would not recommend you haul for this, even though I love you haul, but they will probably use some sort of wood screws and drill into your dash..."
U-Haul is a company that rents out trucks and trailers to help people move their belongings from one place to another.
U-Haul is a well-known company that provides rental trucks, trailers, and storage services, often used for moving and transporting goods.
"...it's kind of like a yaw sensor. Yeah, but kind of a yaw sensor and also it gets the information from the trailer wires..."
A yaw sensor helps detect how much a car is turning. It helps keep the car stable, especially when going around corners.
A yaw sensor measures the rotation of a vehicle around its vertical axis. This information is crucial for stability control systems and helps improve vehicle handling during turns.
"...it activates the brakes manually, so if you need to manually activate them, slowly start to prime brake pressure to the trailer..."
Trailer brakes are the brakes that are built into a trailer. They help the trailer stop when the car or truck it's attached to slows down, making it safer to tow heavy things.
Trailer brakes are braking systems specifically designed for trailers. They help ensure that the trailer stops effectively when the towing vehicle brakes, which is crucial for safety, especially with heavy loads.
"...you want to set that so that the wheels, this is very simplistic, but so that the trailer wheels don't lock up..."
Brake gain is how strong the brakes work when you press the brake pedal. It's important to set it right so the trailer doesn't stop too suddenly or too slowly.
Brake gain refers to the sensitivity of the brake controller in a towing setup, determining how much braking force is applied when the brakes are activated. Proper adjustment is crucial to avoid locking up the trailer wheels or providing insufficient braking force.
"...this is a GMC Sierra 1500, basically, you know, I have a CDL..."
The GMC Sierra 1500 is a big truck that can carry heavy loads and is used for many tasks, like towing and hauling. It's known for being strong and comfortable to drive.
The GMC Sierra 1500 is a full-size pickup truck known for its versatility, capability, and comfort. It's often used for both personal and commercial purposes, making it a popular choice among truck enthusiasts.
"[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna emergency because you don't want to jackknife You can also set the brake gain and what the brake gain is is just how hard The brakes are gonna break when you activate the vehicles brakes [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and you want to set that so that the wheels, this is very simplistic, but so that the trailer wheels don't lock up Yeah, but at the same time they're not, you're not having it so soft that they don't actually provide much breaking Exactly, and you test this, actually our producer called just pulled up one of the images here on the screen This was from our recent iGountlet that we're doing a competition between half time trucks [SPEAKER_00]: And you're seeing Joel Motors, this is a GMC, Sierra 1500, basically, you know, I have a CDL, so what they teach us at the beginning, I'm sorry, we should, well, I don't want to commercial drivers license, commercial drivers license, yeah, and you, what basically, you can do I big rigs. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but what we teach in school for commercial driver drivers is that there is a pre-trip inspection."
The GMC Sierra EV is a new electric truck that doesn’t use gas. It’s made to be powerful and has lots of space inside.
The GMC Sierra EV is an all-electric version of the popular Sierra pickup truck, designed to offer a sustainable alternative without sacrificing performance. It features advanced technology and a spacious interior.
"...what we teach in school for commercial driver drivers is that there is a pre-trip inspection..."
A pre-trip inspection is when you check your vehicle to make sure everything is working well before you start driving. It's especially important for big trucks to keep everyone safe.
A pre-trip inspection is a thorough check of a vehicle's systems and components before starting a journey, especially important for commercial drivers. It ensures that everything is functioning properly to prevent accidents or breakdowns.
"And I think this is an important thing to add here, just because you have a hitch receiver,"
A hitch receiver is a part on the back of a vehicle that lets you attach a trailer. It's like a connector that helps your car pull something heavy behind it.
A hitch receiver is a component attached to a vehicle that allows it to tow a trailer. It provides a mounting point for a hitch, which connects the vehicle to the trailer.
"...just because you have a hitch receiver, and just because you have a seven pin plug in your vehicle doesn't mean that you have a brake controller."
A seven pin plug is a special connector that links your car to a trailer. It helps the lights on the trailer work and can also control the trailer's brakes if you have the right equipment.
A seven pin plug is a type of electrical connector used in towing setups. It connects the towing vehicle to the trailer, allowing for the transfer of power for lights and brakes.
"...basically using a 12 volt connector or outlet inside of your cab of your vehicle. You're powering this handheld device and that that transmits a signal to the box that's in the back..."
A 12 volt connector is like a power outlet in your car that you can use to plug in devices, similar to how you would plug in a phone charger at home.
A 12 volt connector is a power outlet commonly found in vehicles, used to power various devices and accessories. It typically provides a standard voltage for charging or operating electronic devices.
"...there is another solution and that is hydraulic brakes."
Hydraulic brakes are a type of braking system that uses liquid to help stop the car. When you press the brake pedal, it pushes fluid through pipes to the brakes, making them work better.
Hydraulic brakes use fluid to transmit force from the brake pedal to the brake pads, allowing for more effective stopping power. This system is commonly used in modern vehicles due to its reliability and efficiency.
"And you sometimes refer to surge brakes. So explain those because you have a boat and a lot of boat trailers are surge brakes. And you can forego a trailer, a hitch connector, a trailer brake controller if you have a surge brake."
Surge brakes help slow down a trailer when the vehicle is braking. They work by using the weight of the trailer to push a part that activates the brakes, making it easier to stop without extra controls.
Surge brakes are a type of trailer braking system that automatically engages when the towing vehicle slows down. They use the momentum of the trailer to push a piston, which activates the brakes without the need for a separate brake controller.
"...y're like, whoa, dude. [SPEAKER_00]: You have a 5 series BMW, he's like, yeah, no problem. [SPEAKER_00]: You k..."
The BMW 7 Series is a fancy car that has a lot of high-tech features and is very comfortable to drive. It’s considered one of the best luxury cars.
The BMW 7 Series is a luxury sedan that represents the brand's flagship model, known for its advanced technology, performance, and opulent features. It is often discussed for its status and innovation in the luxury car segment.
"...there's always signs that say how fast you can go if you're towing, and usually let's say the speed limit in kilometers is 80 or something like that."
The speed limit is the fastest you are allowed to drive on a road. It helps keep everyone safe by preventing cars from going too fast.
The speed limit is the maximum legal speed that a vehicle can travel on a particular stretch of road. It varies by location and type of road.
"Well, if you're Tacoma, you could have like 1,200 pounds of payload, and maybe 1,000 pounds of payload."
The Toyota Tacoma is a popular truck that can handle tough jobs and off-road adventures. It can carry a lot of weight in its bed, which is useful for transporting items.
The Toyota Tacoma is a mid-sized pickup truck known for its off-road capability and reliability. It offers various payload capacities depending on the configuration and model year.
Squatting happens when the back of a truck lowers down because it's carrying too much weight. This can make the truck harder to control, so it's something to watch out for when towing.
Squatting refers to the rear end of a vehicle lowering when it is loaded, particularly when towing a trailer. This can affect handling and stability, making it important to consider weight distribution and towing capacity.
"...it takes away 500 pounds of your payload. So if it's me, you and the trailer in Tacoma, that's it."
Payload is how much weight a vehicle can safely carry, including people and stuff. It's important to know this when towing something like a trailer.
Payload refers to the maximum weight that a vehicle can carry, including passengers and cargo. In this context, it highlights the importance of understanding weight limits when towing a trailer.
"... overheat a case And I actually did this in a ram 3500 truck You were showing a clip of this right now [..."
The Ram 3500 is a big truck made for heavy work, like towing trailers. It’s built to be very strong and can handle tough jobs.
The Ram 3500 is a heavy-duty pickup truck designed for serious towing and hauling capabilities. It is often discussed for its powerful engine options and robust construction.
"[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they probably have cooling because these are very high horse power, but their transmissions I wonder. [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if they have like transmission coolers, but I listened well, I listen every week, but I listened to what they were saying and somebody recommended an F-150 hybrid to them. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay."
The Ford F-150 is a big truck that people often use for work or to haul things. It's popular because it's tough and can handle a lot of different tasks.
The Ford F-150 is a full-size pickup truck known for its durability, versatility, and strong performance. It has been one of the best-selling vehicles in the United States for decades, making it a significant player in the automotive market.
"...m Friday when we, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, a land cruiser is a big chunk of a vehicle. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, ..."
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a big SUV that can go off-road and is known for lasting a long time. People like it because it's tough and can handle rough conditions.
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a large, luxury SUV renowned for its off-road capabilities and reliability. It has a long history and is often discussed for its durability and ability to handle tough terrains.
"...R_00]: This is my person. [SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado. [SPEAKER_01]: And the women of hitches are nice ..."
The Chevrolet Silverado is another large truck that many people use for work or recreation. It's liked for its ability to carry heavy loads and its comfortable ride.
The Chevrolet Silverado is a full-size pickup truck that competes directly with the Ford F-150. It's known for its strong towing capacity, comfortable interior, and a wide range of configurations to suit different needs.
"...first of all, it's not sticking out very far past defenders, which is illegal, actually. [SPEAKER_00]: And al..."
The Land Rover Defender is a strong, stylish SUV that can drive on rough roads and trails. It's popular among people who love adventure and want a vehicle that looks good too.
The Land Rover Defender is an iconic off-road vehicle known for its rugged design and exceptional off-road performance. It has a loyal following and is often discussed for its blend of luxury and capability.
"...ecause Ford is very competitive to the new diesel power wagon. [SPEAKER_01]: So as you know, Ram just came out ..."
The Dodge Power Wagon is a tough truck that can handle rough roads and heavy loads. It’s popular with people who like to go off-road.
The Dodge Power Wagon is a heavy-duty pickup truck known for its off-road capabilities and rugged design. It has a strong following among enthusiasts who appreciate its blend of power and functionality.
"...diesel power wagon. [SPEAKER_01]: So as you know, Ram just came out with finally the thing that people ..."
The Dodge Ram is a big truck that’s good for heavy work and driving comfortably. It’s popular among people who need a reliable vehicle for tough jobs.
The Dodge Ram, now known as Ram Trucks, is a full-size pickup known for its powerful engines and comfortable ride. It has gained a reputation for being a strong competitor in the truck market.
"... reviews. [SPEAKER_00]: I currently own he owns a TRAX REM TRAX 2021. [SPEAKER_00]: So the original one ..."
The Chevrolet Trax is a small SUV that’s easy to drive and park in the city. It’s a good choice if you want something that’s not too big but still has space inside.
The Chevrolet Trax is a subcompact SUV that offers a practical solution for urban driving with its small size and efficient fuel economy. It's often discussed for its affordability and versatility.
"...work truck is pretty ballsy. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a flex. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, congrats to you, my man."
The Ford Flex is a roomy SUV that looks a bit different from other SUVs. It’s great for families because it has lots of space inside.
The Ford Flex is a unique crossover SUV known for its boxy shape and spacious interior. It offers a comfortable ride and is often discussed for its family-friendly features.
"... now. [SPEAKER_01]: Santa Cruz and of course, the Maverick. [SPEAKER_01]: And we have told with both, well, ..."
The Ford Maverick is a smaller truck that’s easy to drive and park, perfect for city life. It's affordable and even has a version that saves on gas.
The Ford Maverick is a compact pickup truck that offers a blend of utility and efficiency, making it a popular choice for urban dwellers. It stands out for its affordability and hybrid option, appealing to those looking for a practical vehicle.
"... only two compact trucks right now. [SPEAKER_01]: Santa Cruz and of course, the Maverick. [SPEAKER_01]: And we..."
The Hyundai Santa Cruz is a small truck that’s easy to drive and has a bed to carry things. It’s a good option if you want something that’s not too big but still useful.
The Hyundai Santa Cruz is a compact pickup truck that blends the features of an SUV with the utility of a truck bed. It's designed for those who want versatility in a smaller package.
"... Yeah, the Ford Maverick has more payload than my tundra This is Last generation yeah, I know that's how S..."
The Toyota Tundra is a big truck that people use for heavy jobs like towing trailers. It's known to last a long time and is built tough.
The Toyota Tundra is a full-size pickup truck known for its reliability and strong performance, particularly in towing and hauling. It has a reputation for longevity and is often discussed for its robust build quality.
"...ich are four-cylinder turbos, to like the Raptor, Ranger, which has a six-cylinder turbo, there's just thi..."
The Ford Ranger is a smaller truck that can still do a lot of heavy lifting. It's a good choice if you want something that’s not too big but still strong.
The Ford Ranger is a mid-size pickup truck that combines capability with efficiency, making it a popular choice for those who need a truck without the bulk of a full-size model. It offers good towing capacity and off-road options.
"...in other words does the vehicle like remember the gladiator the thing that kept the gladiator from towing a l..."
The Jeep Gladiator is a truck that can go off-road like a Jeep. It’s great for people who want to explore tough trails and still have space to carry things.
The Jeep Gladiator is a unique pickup truck that combines the off-road capabilities of a Jeep with the utility of a truck bed. It's designed for adventure enthusiasts who want to tackle rugged terrains.
"...e a like a smooth easy to in truck get yourself a lightning or get yourself a Chevy Sorado EV or Giscia or ge..."
The Ford F-150 Lightning is an electric truck that doesn’t use gas. It’s designed to be powerful and has lots of modern features.
The Ford F-150 Lightning is the all-electric version of the popular F-150 pickup truck, offering a sustainable alternative with impressive power and technology. It aims to redefine what a truck can be in the electric vehicle market.
"...tested basically everything, right, including the cybertruck and the hummer and everything else. [SPEAKER_00]:..."
The Tesla Cybertruck is a new electric truck that looks very different from regular trucks. It's powered by electricity, which means it doesn't need gas.
The Tesla Cybertruck is an all-electric pickup truck known for its futuristic design and advanced technology. It aims to disrupt the traditional truck market with its unique features and sustainable powertrain.
"...lates in their all trucks and their all trucks or suburbans 25% of trucks are sold in all trucks and I have [..."
The Chevrolet Suburban is a big SUV that can fit a lot of people and their stuff. It's great for families and long trips.
The Chevrolet Suburban is a large SUV known for its spacious interior and strong towing capacity, making it a favorite for families and those needing extra room. It has a long history and is often discussed for its versatility and comfort.
"[SPEAKER_01]: It's meant to stop an 80,000 pound truck that's out of control. [SPEAKER_01]: I can take a look, still even though they're expensive, they still provide the most all-weather capability, the most all-road capability, the most comfort. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, my daily is always either gonna be a truck or some kind of a truck-based SUV."
The Audi Allroad is a fancy car that can drive on different types of roads, including rough ones. It’s comfortable and has a lot of nice features.
The Audi Allroad is a luxury wagon that combines the practicality of a station wagon with off-road capabilities. It's known for its high-quality interior and advanced technology.
"..., if you're in the mountains and there's a big, a wind blowing, you're gonna start having issues. [SPEAK..."
The Renault Wind is a small car that can turn into a convertible, meaning you can drive it with the top down. It’s fun for sunny days.
The Renault Wind is a compact convertible sports car known for its unique design and fun driving experience. It appeals to those looking for an affordable open-top vehicle.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And right, how long have we been running the world's toughest towing test?
[SPEAKER_01]: I got lid.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost 13 years, my friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that is a lot of towing over the years, huh?
[SPEAKER_01]: So in this video slash podcast, we thought it'd be fun to kind of share with you the secrets that we've learned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk about not just, you know, what it's like to tow with a truck, but what it's like to tow with a compact truck, a mid-sized truck, a full-sized truck, a heavy-duty truck, SUV and EV and then pick the one that we like the best, so if you're picking a vehicle for towing, we'll kind of go into that, and then we're going to get into some news.
[SPEAKER_01]: But first, before we do any of that, could I tell you a story?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so last year, I don't want to throw any manufacturer out of the bus so I won't need the manufacturers name them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't do that, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not the way we roll away here at TFO, and by the way, the case is unavailable today, so you're stuck with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm gonna tell you a story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's a brand new big SUV that's being rolled out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're doing the press presentation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is the CEO of the company there, not the main CEO, but like the look more from America.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there is an engineer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just very professional presentation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of it, they put up this slide and they say, I think it was this vehicle can tell 8,000 pounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that kind of narrowed it down to what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was 8,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot of weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that is a lot of towing capability.
[SPEAKER_01]: 8,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you guys, yeah, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then they have a Q&A session.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I raised my hand and I go, excuse me, to the CEO.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, does it have a break controller?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, he looks at the engineer and the engineer says, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, that means it can total 3,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the CEO executive says, no, it can total 8,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, no, it can total 3,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, you got into a little scuffle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was being a little party, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, no, I could be known to be a little full of myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe that was bad on my part.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then afterwards, he's like, let's discuss this afterwards.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then me and him and the engineers, and the engineer, we get together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he asked the engineer and the engineerist is like, yeah, without a brake controller, you can really only tow 3,000 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so I'm assuming that the CV has a hitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has a plug by the rear bumper, which is a 7 pin, which is appropriate.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what it doesn't have is an actual button or buttons on a dash somewhere that allows the driver to control the trailer brake gain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also the emergency squeeze.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which activates the brakes, let me expand on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've been listening to Matt's podcast, you know, the smoking tire.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I listened to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for the last three weeks, they've been discussing, they're getting a trailer, and they're going to have a car trailer, and they've been discussing, they're buying a vehicle, and they're getting their fans input into what vehicle they should have to told this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the top of the list, until this week was either the Bentega.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, which is cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing wrong with the Bentega.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or a Porsche Cayenne hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they were kind of wondering how much you can tow and you can go and you can look up the tow rating on those vehicles and it's pretty high but never in the discussion did any of them mention, I think, three important facts and this is the kind of stuff that we want to bring out so that you guys are aware of this, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They never mentioned the brake controller.
[SPEAKER_01]: which once again without the brake controller you're and we'll talk about why you can only tow 3,000 pounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: They never mentioned the fact that in California if you're tall and you can only go 55.
[SPEAKER_00]: Still by law this is this is amazing because that law was in the fact worth 30 or 30 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a towing buskill.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the third thing that they never mentioned is tongue weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought it'd be good to talk about all that, so people understand why when you're choosing a toe rig, these three things are very important because they all come down to how much you can tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start with the brake controller.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you don't always need a brake controller.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are hydraulic brakes, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The most boat trailers use.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, search brakes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's talk about why the manufacturer of this big SUV said it could [SPEAKER_01]: 8000 but without a break controller it can only tell 3000.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why didn't you explain that?
[SPEAKER_01]: If you would be so kind.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also the CEO I imagine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was right in the room that day.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I imagine that the engineering team and the CEO they looked at it and they said we have a full size SCV and it has the big engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it has a nice transmission.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it has a lot of cooling.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has a good suspension.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So based on those factors, it could, it's rated, you know, they certified it to pull 8,000 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the vehicle can pull up the mountain, but what about stopping?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going down the mountain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just more important.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Matt and Zach, which I know, they were talking about the fact that like, you know, Kian has these great breaks.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a poor shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing breaks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing breaks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the track, but no matter how much, [SPEAKER_01]: a break is amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to stop 8,000 pounds of weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're pushing down at it for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're more than doubling the weight of the vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say your SUV weighs, let's say 6,000 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe 7,000 pounds depending on the SUV, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever it may be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you have several people in it as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you put 8,000 pounds trailer behind it, you're more than doubled the weight of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: vehicle, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have amazing brakes, but let's say we do the eye gauntlet.
[SPEAKER_00]: The downhill section is eight miles long.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're writing your brake, it's going to boil the brake fluid.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to boil the brakes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we first started, we used to use a little device that would match the temperature of the brakes, just to show you how hot they got.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you would burn your finger on these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is with the brake control.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like hundreds of degrees.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're talking about 400 degrees or [SPEAKER_00]: And on the mountain highways we drive on the interstates, like the I-70, they have run away truck ramps for a reason, because semi-trucks have gigantic brakes, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But some of them have accidents, and some of them have to go up these humongous sandy ramps to slow themselves down when their brakes give out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's connect it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what a brake controller does is it allows you to control the brakes that are on the trailer, so that you have, if it's a dual axle, you have four more brakes, essentially.
[SPEAKER_00]: Triple oxal, you might have six more brakes, and you might need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that you can actually slow down the vehicle and the load.
[SPEAKER_01]: And no matter how well a vehicle is engineered for the race track, it's not engineered to stop 8,000 pounds [SPEAKER_01]: way pushing on its buck down hill exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think the first question that you need to ask yourself is does it have a break controller because without that you're by law, especially in California, you are limited to only 3,000 pounds in the police will check.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and actually that law very state by state, you know, some states are a little bit more lenient, some states are a little bit more harsh, based on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But by and large, we want to be safe, right, all of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, you could slow down something that weighs 2 or 3,000 pounds, maybe with a standard vehicle breaks.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as soon as you go much further than that, that's when the problems can occur.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other way to slow down, right, is to use your transmission.
[SPEAKER_00]: right most new pickup trucks and even some SUVs and some other vehicles have kind of what something they call to a whole mode or a great shifting modes where basically the transmission will help you downshift and actually get a lower gear higher RPM on the downhill and try to bring it down you know slow it down but [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of vehicles, that's not very effective.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what we can we'll talk about exhaust brakes when we get to the full size or heavy duty trucks depending on where we're at.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so the problem quite simply is that if you don't have a brake controller and you want to tow more than three, and let's face it, if you're if you're new to tow in 3,000 pounds is nothing, it's maybe like a tiny side by side on a tiny trailer, it's basically a motorcycle.
[SPEAKER_01]: or maybe a tear drop.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, these are a little tiny things and keep in mind a lot of people forget about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not just [SPEAKER_01]: getting the weight of the thing you're telling, but whatever is in the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if it's a two-drop, you're gonna have like, stuff in it, your cooler full of drinks, or water, water, water is always water.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is a solution to that, and that is a wireless brake controller, but that comes with its own set of problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have a wireless brake controller like explain how that works and let's talk about the problems that you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you do want that, let's say Matt, Zach, you do want that, Ben Taker, or cayenne, [SPEAKER_01]: and you don't have a break in troll, you could get a wireless one, but what are the ups and downs of wireless controls?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, before you get to the wireless one, you could, if you have a bent-taker or a cayenne, and it doesn't, if it doesn't have the wireless controls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Built-in, you could go to an aftermarket company.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would not recommend you haul for this, even though I love you haul, but they will probably use some sort of wood screws and drill into your dash, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there goes you all as a sponsor, you all, we don't use woodscrews.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless it's wood.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I've used you all several times.
[SPEAKER_00]: I installed a break wiring on my wife's Subaru once and it's woodscrews.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, okay, but it wasn't great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just yeah, I mean, yeah, they're good at doing the temporary things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like the hitch that you want to go to you haul and you want to do a hitch and not necessarily even for telling but you want to like, you know, have a bike carrier.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, anyways, but so you could drill into your dash, but I imagine if you own expensive SUV like a Bentega, you don't want to drill into its dad though, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the wireless brake controller, like you were saying, makes a lot of sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, it comes with a little sensor that you put either on a trailer tongue where the hitches or right there by the hitch of your vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that sensor basically senses acceleration.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's kind of like a yaw sensor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but kind of a yaw sensor and also it gets the information from the trailer wires, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's running between your vehicle and your trailer.
[SPEAKER_00]: So every time you touch the brake pedal, you know, that brake light turns on, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it understands when the brake is pushed and also has a little accelerometer there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it uses that information to kind of send more, you know, current to those trailer brakes.
[SPEAKER_01]: At this point, it might be a good thing for all you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: toning types to explain what a brake controller does.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a brake controller is a little switch that you pull that allows you to control the brakes on your trailer from inside the cab of your truck or your car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually there's two tabs, one tab is stationary, one tab moves, and then there's two buttons with the plus and a minus.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what the pulley thing does is when you pull on it, it activates the brakes manually, so if you need to manually activate them, [SPEAKER_01]: Slowly start to prime brake pressure to the trailer and then because hopefully you won't be having to do it manually It's an emergency thing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see you're out of control and you need to have it stopped That's when you would grab it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna emergency because you don't want to jackknife You can also set the brake gain and what the brake gain is is just how hard The brakes are gonna break when you activate the vehicles brakes [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and you want to set that so that the wheels, this is very simplistic, but so that the trailer wheels don't lock up Yeah, but at the same time they're not, you're not having it so soft that they don't actually provide much breaking Exactly, and you test this, actually our producer called just pulled up one of the images here on the screen This was from our recent iGountlet that we're doing a competition between half time trucks
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're seeing Joel Motors, this is a GMC, Sierra 1500, basically, you know, I have a CDL, so what they teach us at the beginning, I'm sorry, we should, well, I don't want to commercial drivers license, commercial drivers license, yeah, and you, what basically, you can do I big rigs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but what we teach in school for commercial driver drivers is that there is a pre-trip inspection.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you and I, we usually don't do pre-trip instructions when we go to Costco or, you know, run errands.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when he's towing really, really heavy.
[SPEAKER_00]: in the mountains we always do a pre-ship inspection and it includes testing the brake controller right because if you start moving on a highway and you forgot to test it and maybe the connection is not perfect right something is wrong all of a sudden you find yourself in a very precarious situation so [SPEAKER_00]: the way you control set the game, because it's from 0 to 10, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is you kind of move in the parking lot very, very slowly and kind of squeeze that break controller.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're activating the trailer.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not touching the vehicle breaks battle at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the wheels harshly lock up, you have too much game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you'll feel that because all the people feel it and you'll hear it because all of the trailer will pull very hard on your trucker car and you'll have that like [SPEAKER_00]: And usually, what my rule of thumb is, if you have a loaded trailer, I start around five, so it's kind of in the middle, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it's not enough, I would invite you to five out of ten for the break game.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it's not enough, you'd go to like six, but if it's too much, you could back it down, you know, maybe four or three.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is an important thing to add here, just because you have a hitch receiver, [SPEAKER_01]: And just because you have a seven pin plug in your vehicle doesn't mean that you have a brake controller.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all that does is allow you to hook up to the trailer and allow lights and have lights.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't mean you can control the brakes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's an important thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: People sometimes assume if they see a hitch and they see that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually two plugs, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a seven pin plug and sometimes there's a [SPEAKER_01]: is a 4 depending on which system you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that doesn't mean you have a brake control.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another wireless one which we're discussing allows you to basically have that brake controller wirelessly in your cabin.
[SPEAKER_01]: You kind of lay it down and you can activate manually.
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of drilling into your dashboard and doing all that stuff, basically using a 12 volt connector or outlet inside of your cab of your vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're powering this handheld device and that that transmits a signal to the box that's in the back Yes, and which then activates the brakes exactly, but there are downsides first expensive Yeah, they're between like three to four hundred dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then you have to install them Which is not that hard, but what do you do with it when you're not using it?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a good solution.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe if you have a bunch of vehicles and you're switching [SPEAKER_00]: So, first of all, you might need to drill into your trailer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Dad, you need to attach that box.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a big box.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a size of a red loaf.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's a small box.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, that's an old system we've been using for like a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even know what's what's wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the new ones are much smaller.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, it works, dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: How big is the new one?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, so ours is like a, like, a little thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The new one is the size of your mug.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's getting smaller.
[SPEAKER_00]: Technology is improving.
[SPEAKER_01]: TFL truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: One place when you don't want you all to sponsor your videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry you haul.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've rented many you haul.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so so that's the wireless solution now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is another solution and that is hydraulic brakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you sometimes refer to surge brakes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So explain those because you have a boat and a lot of boat trailers are surge brakes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can forego a trailer, a hitch connector, a trailer brake controller if you have a surge brake.
[SPEAKER_01]: Explain how that works.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, usually both trailers my wife and I have on the boat for about what 20 some years because you're launching the boat by putting it in water, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So usually electricly actuated brakes and water don't mix, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you could have some issues there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the solution that's existed for, I don't know how many decades I've heard, maybe a hundred years?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that there's a piston inside of your trailer tongue and as soon as you stop [SPEAKER_00]: That piston moves.
[SPEAKER_01]: The weight of the trailer is pushing on that piston.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a physical thing and as soon as you that piston pushes it pushes break fluid into the brakes Hands stopping you know breaking any activates the brake lights [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the lights are always connected, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But the brake lights, and the brake lights is, of course, activated because you're hitting the brakes in the car, you're slowing down, it's pushing on the best time, the distance pushing the fluid, and it's hydraulic brakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: those have a different braking system called electric over hydraulic so they have really powerful hydraulic brakes, but they're actuated with a brake controller.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a whole other story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we're not going to get into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's not go into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not yet, that's a whole, that's going to really confuse people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now there's two things that I want to talk about here, and one of the things that map right up in his podcast, when you go, and this is important, when you go to like Europe, the UK, for instance, or you watch top here, you've got these little tiny like three bang or diesel, Hyundai's, Tony's enormous trailers.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I have a story about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, tell me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we were fortunate that we got invited to Sweden, to go see some prototypes with Hyundai, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hyundai invited us, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was there with some engineers from Hyundai and they're from Germany, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're testing a lot of different vehicles and they're testing all of the electric vehicles, as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was telling him about towing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We were talking about pulling trailers.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, well, let me tell you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a BMW 5 series sedan and I pull 5,000 pounds with it, like every other week.
[SPEAKER_00]: They like, that's what they're like, whoa, dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a 5 series BMW, he's like, yeah, no problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just hook up a giant trailer to it and, you know, we just go down the road.
[SPEAKER_01]: So why is that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there is a thing that's very different between American towing and European towing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are a couple of things actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in Europe, they have very low towing speeds.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like hand winding roads that are very slow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like California and Europe, if you're towing, there's always signs that say how fast you can go if you're towing, and usually let's say the speed limit in kilometers is 80 or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Towing tends to be much less than that, like 50 kilometers.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're 45, and if I'm saying this wrong, you can correct me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason for that is because of tongue weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So tongue weight is how much weight the trailer is pushing down on the back of your vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this has to do with payload, because the two are in, in-extrict will be connected.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in Europe, they tow with a lot less tongue weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in America, the standard is 10% of your trailer weight goes on the tongue.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's, let's put that in real terms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's, let's pick a truck and let's talk about what that means.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's say 5,000 pound trailer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have a 5,000 pound trailer.
[SPEAKER_01]: 10% is 500 pounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're, you're towing with, let's say a mid-sized truck, which would have how much payload.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you're Tacoma, you could have like 1,200 pounds of payload, and maybe 1,000 pounds of payload.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's just go 1,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now, you're talking a 5,000 pound trailer, which means that 500 pounds of weight is pushing down on the back of your truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it starts squatting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it starts squatting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it takes away 500 pounds of your payload.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if it's me, you and the trailer in Tacoma, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're both 250.
[SPEAKER_01]: around yes so maybe it's just a couple pounds less yeah so we've maxed out the payload exactly but in Europe the reason they can get away with that is because they have these slow towing speeds of problem in America like in Utah you can tow at 80 80 yeah yeah uh the problem is the less tongue weight the more trailer sway [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and trailers when the higher the speed the more trailers way and the more dangerous it is So if you're going slow you can have a lot less tongue weight and not end up with trailer swing If you've ever been towing it and I just recently had this happen to me on the trip from Utah and you get trailer sway It's it's not just stressful.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not white knuckle.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's terrifying because what starts happening is you get this like resonance frequency the trailer starts weighing [SPEAKER_01]: and then the back end of the truck or car starts swaying and then if you don't hit the brakes and if you don't have a brake one other thing the brake controller does and you can use the emergency think for that is if you push the brakes and the brake controller it keeps the trailer brake.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well it's activated the trailer brakes only and then which brings it in line so it doesn't sway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what you have then is the literally the tail wagging the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about that, you know, a very heavy tail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, think about like when you, you know, when your dog starts wagging his tail and the whole dog starts going back and forth, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you're in a car doing, let's say, 80 miles an hour or a truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the next day it's going to happen is you're going to jackknife.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're rolling, if you're rolling, if you're not lucky.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the way the Europeans do it is they have a lot less payload, but they have a lot less tongue weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: when I mean by a lotless payload is at three cylinder Hyundai, you know, it doesn't have a lot of payload but it doesn't need it so they can tow a lot more with a lot less because they're moving a lot slower.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so don't, don't like look at Europe and say, hey, we could do the same thing here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can, but it would be very dangerous.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well also European markets, most countries, they don't have big pickup trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: for a reason because they have old cities with really narrow streets, different regulations, different taxes, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They taxed vehicles differently based on what type of vehicle they have.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was just an England last fall, you know, with my family on vacation and I think I want to think and I don't think I saw any full-size pickup trucks whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, you see out to your highlights, maybe, you know, some other pickup tracks, you know, small mid-size or smaller, but you never see anything larger than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, if we had, if we could play a bit of music, I'll do a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the number three secret that we've learned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember, I said we share secrets.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: From doing all these towing tests.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is an important one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me ask before I tell you before I let you know the secret.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me ask you, how does a manufacturer determine how much a vehicle can tow, what, what, what are the criteria that go into that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a standard Roman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_00]: SAE.
[SPEAKER_00]: SAE.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think over the entire 13 years that we've been doing this, 28.7 is the number.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've memorized that number for that standard and they they do so many different tests They have to do with heat, you know, they tell a Davis Dam making sure they're They can withstand a hundred degree or above ambient temperatures and Fahrenheit and the vehicles don't overheat a case And I actually did this in a ram 3500 truck You were showing a clip of this right now [SPEAKER_00]: They also have like lane change maneuvers, testing braking tests, actually Tommy went out to ram proving grounds in Chelsea, Michigan, and he visited with their engineers and We have a video detailing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is very very [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's a string and have all these criteria.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll just give you one as an example.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have to park the vehicle and the load, I don't know what the percentage of inkline is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty extreme.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like 30% grade or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have to lock the emergency brake and the vehicle has to be able to hold that without slipping backwards and going down.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's all these standards.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, it has to do with chassis, rigidity, [SPEAKER_01]: The thing, the nice to do triathlon, you know, we used to do swim bike run, and there's always a limiter, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The limiter is a sport that makes you not be competitive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you're a good runner, and you're a good cyclist, you might be a crappy swimmer.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're a good swimmer, and a good cyclist, you might be a bad runner.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how usually happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, limiter is the slowest sport that you're at, and the limiter, [SPEAKER_01]: in general, in general, for towing, and you said it tends to be heat or cooling.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think it would be like, you know, how big are the leaves spraying?
[SPEAKER_00]: How big your engine is or something?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It usually has more to do with how well can you cool two things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Your transmission and your engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why when you get a towing package, [SPEAKER_01]: it usually has additional coolers for both of those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it tends to be about not overheating either one of those.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you notice when we do the Icon lid, Andre always puts up the temperatures, especially on the trucks to provide them so that we know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And ironically, I think more often than not, it's actually more of the transmission than the engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: The engine tends to stay pretty cool, but the one that tends to heat up much quicker is a transmission.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're keep your transmission running hot more often, it just degrades the transmission, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You may have to service it sooner or it may actually break down sooner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let me return that back to practical terms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, Matt and Zach are looking for a toe vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would promise you that probably the Porsche Cayenne and the Bentega don't have additional cooling for toeing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but they have they have cool in from the track work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they probably have cooling because these are very high horse power, but their transmissions I wonder.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if they have like transmission coolers, but I listened well, I listen every week, but I listened to what they were saying and somebody recommended an F-150 hybrid to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you know, I used to own one, and what I liked when they were talking about it, they talked about its power generation export, because they're thinking about towing racecars to the track, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you get to the track, what do you need?
[SPEAKER_00]: You need some power, you know, to run maybe, I don't know, additional coolers for your racecar or, you know, maybe you're cooking lunch or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I would recommend an F-150 hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think people have been recommending trucks, but like these guys are well, they're also talking about duly's and I think that would be over But man is he's a he's a race guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a track rat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are not this is LA these are not we're not in Dallas or Houston Well, if you were in Dallas, then a duly would be mandatory and moving with a pickup truck in LA.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see is being [SPEAKER_01]: Not just problematic, but where do you store it plus you can't really it's not a kind of a fun car And it's just not a very much it's it's the last thing I would think of in LA But anyway, I don't want to I don't want to go down that road.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the number two secret You got right there kick the right hitch [SPEAKER_01]: let's talk about hitches.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad you asked yes because I have a hitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I brought something here So we've been using different hitches over the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but one of my favorites and the one I owned the longest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he's way safe [SPEAKER_01]: And they're sponsored by ours and they're sponsored by ours because we try to pick sponsors that we use and believe in and like and they have a lot of advantages I think one of the biggest ones of course is right there in the front you can see it if you're watching the video what am I pointing to it's a weight scale That's built into the hitch so basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a little hydraulic piston inside of this metal hitch The one I'm showing here is the new arrow model, which is steel, but most of their hitches are actually aluminum [SPEAKER_00]: And I have both.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have an aluminum hitch at home.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have now this.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my person.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the women of hitches are nice because they're lighter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because some of these hitches, especially for heavy due to pickup trucks, they can weigh 60, 70, 80 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, try moving that around.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, you could pick it up once, but as soon as you start moving it every week, your back starts to hurt.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then this solves a pretty important question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember we talked about payload and 10% and tongue, tongue weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you know what 10% is?
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you guess at it?
[SPEAKER_01]: And let me actually make that even more complicated.
[SPEAKER_01]: We tool a lot of vehicles.
[SPEAKER_01]: And tongue weight change is based on where the towing vehicle sits on the trailer.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're, if the vehicle's in the back, [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to have very little time waiting to vehicles in the front.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to have a lot of time waiting, but how do you know how much time weight you have?
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a weight-safe edge?
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to be at that magic 10% number, weight-safe is a really great solution.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Roman, you and I recently discussed this because we were pulling a side-by-side, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And a side-by-side like a Kawasaki or a Polaris or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The engine is in the back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So most of the weight of that side by side is actually not in the front where a normal vehicle, like a car, would have most of its weight in the front.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to be kind of mindful of that, because if you are pulling a side by side, you might want to push it a little bit more forward because the center of mass has to move a little bit closer to the middle, but you will know this using the [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's just a really great American company, and we have been using them now for a couple of years, and we've been very happy, you know, we're not just advertisers, we're also customers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I've owned my hitch for like 10 years, and we pride ourselves on, you know, recommending things that we believe in.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the things we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you'll note that we don't have any gambling advertising.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like alcohol, because alcohol and cars don't make sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of old school and it's probably detrimental to, you know, our revenue, but at the same time, we're old school that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not drinking alcohol here, aren't you?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go to the third secret.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is something I've learned from you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say you're towing a car, which we told a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but we just told I'm Friday when we, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, a land cruiser is a big chunk of a vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's pretty heavy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And hey, I got to think Nathan, shout out to my man, Nathan, from Minnesota.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nathan Lee, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we exploded this front diff on our land cruiser.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a budget bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what we're trying to do is do an inexpensive bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: The land cruiser has 241,000 miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: it's got you know two thousand five it's a two thousand five one hundred years it doesn't have lockers and we decided to do first it and take it up if you didn't see this video but maybe Cole showed here we decided to take it up the ironclans and raise a rock the raise a rocks and Tommy was in it and all of a sudden there was this horrendous like snap the kind of sound I never want to hear this song and if we busted by the way on ironclans [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is almost becoming a trend and I hope that doesn't continue, but basically we didn't want to drive the length of their home.
[SPEAKER_00]: It made it down the trail, but it was so loud because it was this horrendous like every rotation of the wheel.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank clank [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was more than a clank.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was it was like metal on metal destroying itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and we thought it could have been a CV joint Or we thought it could have been the diff and we thought it was a day We took it to our man Charlie over at Charlie's garage here in Boulder.
[SPEAKER_01]: He does nothing but to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was great mechanic, by the way Thank you Charlie for taking us.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a six week weight on dry six weeks and he's a very popular [SPEAKER_01]: he took us right away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so he figured out because I've got the parts I should brought him in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got parts of the of the diff, some of the teeth.
[SPEAKER_01]: He gave him to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we did this video showing, we're about to show how we destroyed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shall we show we wait till time he destroys it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they get sound or not?
[SPEAKER_01]: They won't hear sound, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have sound.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but you could watch it on TV.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you could watch it on TV, follow off road.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think he's backing down now and this is all done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you could see up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes, right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just went pop and the whole vehicle rock backwards I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, anyway, so we put up the video in our man Nathan actually had look at this face Had had a spare [SPEAKER_01]: 100 series Land Cruiser Diff that he's sending us just for the cost of the shipping.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's 100.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Nathan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nathan, thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: Way too generous.
[SPEAKER_00]: And not only is he shipping it when I called him this morning, he's like, I'm going to go to the UPS right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he was really, he's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the problem is when we have a vehicle and he can't be driven, you know, to us, this is a, [SPEAKER_01]: revenue model that we used to make money by having videos that we can film about the cars after sitting at the repair shop no one making money they're not making money yeah so so anyway so then we got it down the trail uh but then we went of course we got our heavy duty truck which is great because it can toll a ton [SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a silverado [SPEAKER_01]: So you could take a strap and strap it to the trailer using the recovery points, which is easy, which are visible, which are visible.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are other hooks basically, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you hook up the hook on the strap to the hook on the land cruiser, maybe you cross them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not, you know, and you do four, and you're away you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a problem with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you always do something interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is you always, [SPEAKER_01]: hook up the vehicle using the tire and the wheel.
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically you put a strap over each of the tires and then you, you know, you ratchet it down to the trailer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you do that, Andre?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why not just use those recovery hooks because this method takes a lot longer and it seems counterintuitive.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a really good reason for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, now it doesn't take longer because I'm so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's got good at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like they have a lot of suspension of the vehicle, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially if you have an off-roader with a lot of suspension travel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah [SPEAKER_00]: Um, let's say you hook up to the bumper using the toe hooks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right in back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the recurring you go down the highway and the thing bounces and you hit like the first undulation or a pot hole and the vehicle goes up and down it compresses and that rope gets loose.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: The strap and the strap gets loose and it could actually come off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: because if it gets too loose, it'll just come off of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd be amazed at like side-by-side or off-roaders how much they actually kind of, you know, especially like jeeps and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: With a lot of suspension travel, move up and down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by this method, you're basically hitching to the unsprung weight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, basically to the tire itself and the tire may squish, yeah, but it's not moving a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a solution, plus does these straps that have like rubber, uh, giant rubber bands between the strap and the shock strap, and that allows the strap to kind of give a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, well, it puts tension into the strap.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're used that is like, I don't know what it's made out of, like some polymer.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it puts tension into the strap, so it doesn't tend to come off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so instead of transferring that up and down motion into the strap, which then starts to loosen up, [SPEAKER_00]: It's basically a spring within this track.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a spring, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just rap stay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a good solution, but I think your solution of actually tying down to the wheel entire is much smarter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that actually once you get kind of do it a couple times, it actually becomes very easy until you ask me to move your Porsche.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Porsche is so low, the strap would hit the side of the, well, I try to get between the fender and the wheel and the tire and there's like a half an inch of space, that was challenging.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and think if you want to, if you want to picture what that looks like, you're basically taking the strap and the suit last soaring.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lasso, it's like a cowboy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's being a cowboy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like lassoing the wheel and the tire and then this and tying it down to the trailer.
[SPEAKER_01]: In trying out of the tailor and then the part of the lasso that does the round thing, it actually holds on the tire really well because it's rubber.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's rubber, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you've got the grooves and the tires.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it does a really good job.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if there's an extra secret.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what's the one to know the extra one?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Behind the tire is sometimes there's a brake line.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because all cars have brakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you strap over the brake line and you start rushing it down, squeeze the brake line if it snaps, now all of your brake fluid from your car you're trying to tie down is leaking down onto the trailer and you lose all your brakes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then another here's not a secret, but this is just, you know, you want to make sure before you go that you're like to working and an easy way to do that is you want to make sure both the brake lights working and the turn signals are working so you can hit the brake, you can left turn ticket right turn signal, you can just hit or you can just hit the hazard which basically does the same thing with one button.
[SPEAKER_00]: new trucks have actually little tools like in the center console.
[SPEAKER_00]: You love them because push a light test.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they will cycle every light, including reverse lights.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you could see everything all in one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's another secret of, you know, of [SPEAKER_01]: Towing smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not secrets anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just we're giving away all of our secrets out of it And there's one more if we're gonna talk about this if you're towing more than you know a few miles You want it probably stop after a few miles how many miles would you say and then check the straps no matter how you strap it down It because I can't tell you how many times we've done that and this one of the straps inevitably just comes loose I don't know why or how but it just does [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and there is special rules for commercial drivers do this as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it's between 25 and 50 miles Where you have to stop for the first time to check your straps by law.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure But it's good, but usually happens to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say I gauntlet is about a hundred fifty mile round trip What usually happens to us we get in?
[SPEAKER_00]: We check all the straps first then we go and we usually stop for fuel or I don't know some tea I steer something like that [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the time to check again, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we go about 20 miles, check the straps, make sure everything is fine, and then you're good to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, before we get to like the different vehicles that we've tested and what they're good for and more secrets, let's do some rapid fire news.
[SPEAKER_01]: This week on Dre, we published a story about a new super duty tremor on 37.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's telling me about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's on our site, tfltrug.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this came from a professional photographer in Michigan.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this caught our eye immediately because it's a, what appears to be a super duty.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, a 350 because it has a badge on the side.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... witches on thirty sevens now why that is significant as we've never seen a factory truck on thirty five and thirty sevens yes he thirty five's but that thirty sevens a force to produce yeah right for specifically for heavy-duty trucks so for duty is just for the way of being different
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, they're super.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so this program is not brought to you by Ford, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're Chevy or any other vehicle manufacturer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brought to you by Titan, the truck you can no longer buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's brought to you by Waysafe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, not the Titan.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not, not, not the, not the, not the common statement.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it doesn't exist anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do we know it's a manufacturer truck?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because at the first of all, we could see it has manufacturer license plates.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully you didn't publish that code there that we just went up there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a temporary code.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good, good, good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so anyway, yeah, so this is a, this is kind of a sand colored, we think it's being tested.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this isn't Michigan near their headquarters and their factories and has manufacturer plates.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's clearly because we have detailed shots if you scroll down, detailed shots of the tires.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's definitely a 37 by 11.5.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a little bit of a pizza cutter, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not a super white tire.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we published a video.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about everything that has to do with this truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people said, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay to have a narrow a tire.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because first of all, it's not sticking out very far past defenders, which is illegal, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also it has good traction because sometimes you can you need that weight to get down either to the solid ground Be you know below the sand or maybe to the solid ground below the snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a good tire [SPEAKER_01]: The thing that's important about this, I think, Andre, is that this is Ford's reaction slash, because Ford is very competitive to the new diesel power wagon.
[SPEAKER_01]: So as you know, Ram just came out with finally the thing that people have been asking for, as long as we've been doing this, and that is a diesel power wagon.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think Ford's not taking that lying down, and they're saying, okay, well, you guys can do a diesel power wagon because for a long time you couldn't get a diesel power wagon, actually forever, but you could get a diesel tremor, and then they kind of won up them, because not only does the tremor now have 37s, but also has a winch, which for some reason you can't now get in the new diesel commons power wagon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because there's not much space, the factory one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the factory ramp power wagon comments doesn't quite have enough space inside the bumper.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's stock bumper.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could always put aftermarket bumpers on whatever you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, but the Ford does come with a dealership installed one-wage that you can actually see in these images.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the way Ford did not [SPEAKER_00]: You know, up, you know, they did not announce this.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just a spy image that we are studying here, spy images.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, can I do a little editorial while we're in the news?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: As you know, the thing that everybody's been talking about is the fact that the government is doing the way or is allowing manufacturers to do away with the stopstart technology, which let's face it in most people hate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the problem with it is that every time you cycle the car, it comes on and off.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the government did something else and that it's basically they got rid of all legislation and the basis on which we have clean air.
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't need to gut our clean air to get rid of stop-start.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my editorial is this, I believe in choice, always have lead in choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: So why not just make it so that you can turn it on or turn it off and it stays whatever you do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to use it, [SPEAKER_01]: you turn it on and then if you're in stuck in traffic in a lane you're you know you're pluding the air because you're you're spewing out you know you just turn on and the engine turns off and you're not moving or if you hate it so much because the whole thing shakes or you're worried about longevity which is also by the way you're red-haring the manufacturers know that the starters being used more so there's this like red-haring out there that it kills the battery untrue that it kills the starter untrue right they they've up the the battery [SPEAKER_01]: do much to the longevity of the engine, but just make it so that we as truck and car buyers can choose leave it on or off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't that be a better solution than getting the stuff that makes our air clean?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like George.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you, like everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so just hey, here's a button.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I want to use it, I turn or leave the button.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what I leave the button is there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just leave the button to let me [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever I decide I decide yeah, yeah, that that seems like the simplest if you hated you push it once And it's off forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's off for the rest of you the ownership experience of that vehicle or If it doesn't bother you then you leave it on but give people the choice don't gut [SPEAKER_01]: clean air just because of some stupid switch that this is just so, because at the end of the day, sure you, here's the other fallacy of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: The government also said, and this is not political, but this is the true thunder, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They also said it's going to make vehicles $1,000,000 cheaper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me ask you this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever seen the cost of new vehicles go down ever?
[SPEAKER_00]: not the last 30 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's never been a moment where manufacturers said, you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: We're dropping the cost of a vehicle by a thousand grand or 2000 grand.
[SPEAKER_01]: That has never happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about this, COVID, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Prices went up.
[SPEAKER_01]: COVID's over.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did prices go down?
[SPEAKER_01]: They kept going up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Chip shortage prices went up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did they ever come down after this chips were restored?
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't noticed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, can you see the CEOs of the manufacturers who, by the way, are making a boat ton of money think themselves, you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's pass on those savings to the consumers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you actually ever see that happening?
[SPEAKER_01]: I have never seen that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've talked, I've talked to like our friends of dealerships.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have never seen in the history of cars prices go down at least not in the last, let's say, 20 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what fluctuates a lot is incentives, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you can have incentives.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're talking about sticker pricing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But the pricing that's on the window.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when we started this every new car price was like 38,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's 55,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That number has not gone down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, sure, there are incentives that I ought to add.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the actual price that people are paying has not gone down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's proof of that because now we're looking at eight year loans or God help you 10 year loans, because you're guaranteed to be under water in any of those situations.
[SPEAKER_01]: So don't be disingenuous, you know, if you want to, if you actually want to, I would say, if you actually want to bring down prices, how about, how about we reintroduce competition, and we get rid of tariffs?
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is getting political understand that, but in my America, that I believed in, [SPEAKER_01]: competition made prices go down and terrorists were a bad thing right there was a lot of time in America where we believed in free trade because it made this country great and you know by putting protection as walls up sure you're you're kind of you know speaking to a certain percentage of the population but at the end of the day [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be paying prior prices for everything and I think that's unfortunately where we're at.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry if I got political but I value clean air on dry because I know it costs a lot more to go to the hospital when you end up with cancer than it does to have a super ass to stop start button that you can just turn off and leave off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, sorry about that, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would also say that I believe in smart engineering, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's several companies who are engineering, you know, actually more affordable or they try to, right, engineer more affordable things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I'm kind of excited what, you know, next year or two will bring, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about TELLO, we're talking about Slate, we're talking about what Ford is doing, we're talking about, you know, RAM, bringing back the mid-sized truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you do smart engineering, maybe you can actually decrease the prices.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all right, let's talk about more news.
[SPEAKER_01]: New Detroit diesel, semi.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so Zach, producers, Zach did a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wrote a very detailed story on TFLTrack.com because Detroit diesel, we're talking about semi trucks now.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are actually introducing a new generation six turbo diesel family of engines.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're adding actually quite smart.
[SPEAKER_00]: emissions control systems, which kind of goes, once again, about your point, about clean air.
[SPEAKER_00]: Detroit Diesel is adding more smart solutions for emission control, but that's one of the sticking points with reliability with a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll have to wait and see how this checks out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And speaking of...
[SPEAKER_01]: not clean air.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did a story on a truck, not on a tank recently, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they just came out with what you said.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were scratching our head so that the tank is powered by diesel engine right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a hybrid turbine, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's a caterpillar turbo diesel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this is a thousand horsepower from 13 liters.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is rare because these diesels, for example, over the road trucks, there's so much trucks that you and I see every day on the highway and the roads.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those usually have 13 liter, 15 liter or 16 liter displacement engines.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are large, straight, six engines.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the horsepower levels usually go up to about 600.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where it comes out.
[SPEAKER_00]: That stops out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they have a lot of torque.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes 2,000 pound feet of torque.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of these engines, including these Detroit diesels that we're seeing here on screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in a kind of pillar in 1000 pounds, maximum.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but caterpillar, you know, this tank weighs 60 tons, you know, these, or 70 tons, these tanks are super, super, super heavy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, they said a thousand horsepower, and I was like, I'm just wondering how do they do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in a tank, [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you scroll down a little bit in this document, you see that line, right there, there's a two lines in the middle of the page, it says a thousand horsepower emissions level unregulated, so it's a military use, it's a military use vehicle, so they got more power by not having to deal with the emissions, which is a reason that people don't like emissions because of reliability and because it saves power, this is absolutely true.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're also introducing this hybrid thing in the tank, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it has a gigantic transmission, which includes electric motors, which means it has additional torque from electricity.
[SPEAKER_00]: It stores some of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a hybrid tank.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also a crazy silent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So can you imagine the neighbor I'm sneaking up on you?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I remember when they had the Z-H-2, remember the Z-H-2 I went into the story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hydrogen electric.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the reason the military gave, it was a Colorado that was powered by a fuel cell, and the reason they gave forward was because, and they showed us to us, we were at one of the military camps in the springs, and then this truck snuck up on us, because fuel cell makes no noise.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's there's some other noise this tire noises or whatever whatever it may be But it's not a diesel noise.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean a tank But you can probably hear coming like a man because of tracks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah And it's because it's squeezing, you know the earth We also have a couple of comments from Don and Adrian.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what are they saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, all right, so Don On frame car like crown Vic [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he's saying we should do an eye gauntlet with a crown Vic and all the body and frame car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it might be kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for the suggestion, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's not known as a great toe rig, but it's maybe better than the BMW 5 series.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what we have found is that the farther we get away from trucks, the less people care about towing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's because people use trucks for towing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, as you get farther from that kind of use, then the amount of people who actually toe with stuff goes down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm thinking what happens up happening is that there's less interest in the video, because the chances of you towing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this would be kind of a...
[SPEAKER_01]: a man-by-stog video where you have this crown-victoing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would almost be like a typical YouTuber, stunty thing, but it's not, and then the problem with that down quite honestly is, you know, we take the ice seriously, it's kind of the crown, the jewel and the crown, the jewel.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if we turn it into some kind of a silly thing where, you know, doing something that nobody does, then it kind of devalues the test and it just becomes like a silly, like, hey, Andre, guess what we're talking with today, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: But maybe you could do a toa on another road.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not in a gauntlet, but doing like, we do, we also do torture testing here in the summer where we pull up Sunshine Canyon, the Toaster.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, we could tell you to keep it on the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, we're like, we're like a whistling diesel thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're, where you get a close course, you know, and you see just how much the thing could pull before, you know, the back end of it, come flying off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now Adrian has a cool comment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Adrian.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just want to say you guys are awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much I've got several vehicles specifically based on after watching your reviews.
[SPEAKER_00]: I currently own he owns a TRAX REM TRAX 2021.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the original one like you like you, but I'm okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess today what?
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get to your comment, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're driving back to the office and we both spotted this.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a guy, a painter, like a house painter, who's parked on the side of the road and he's got all his paints, supplies, and this truck, and he's got this big compressor in the truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guess what the truck was?
[SPEAKER_01]: Was the TNX?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a wrap to our.
[SPEAKER_01]: Raptor R?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is an expert.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have like a ladder rack?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, with ladder.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody had a compressor and he had paint.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like used using his Raptor R as a work truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, it's a tax thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be, I mean, 120,000 dollar truck as a work truck is pretty ballsy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a flex.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, congrats to you, my man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a flex.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you see your paint are pulling up on the Raptor R, you may be paying too much for your paint.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might be paying too much for your paint.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is Adrian saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's he?
[SPEAKER_00]: He said he remembers when case night where did one of the towing videos not a night gauntlet But we actually went over lovelin pass Yeah, she's actually higher elevation than the I gauntlet and it's actually slower because it's got a lot of twists and turns and our brakes were glowing [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've had that happen a few times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so actually you get a smoking, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you would think that a performance truck like a TRX or a rap to R would have amazing breaks.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is similar to what Matt is talking about, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And his podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: But usually, it's not amazing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's usually, so you have to rely on the breaks of the trailer to actually help you out.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's quickly just go through some of the, just really quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how much time we have for all where we are?
[SPEAKER_00]: No time.
[SPEAKER_01]: No time.
[UNKNOWN]: OK.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, almost done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just, we, we're not going to go through every truck because that would take the next three hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Roman, we did a hundred and ninety five eye gauntlets.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how much time do you have?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's start with compact.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's really only two compact trucks right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Santa Cruz and of course, the Maverick.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have told with both, well, Nathan tried to tell with his Santa Cruz a lot, but he couldn't get the wiring harness for some reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there was like a delay in parts for Nathan, so I'm sorry about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the, but the, but the, Maverick does tow a maximum of 4,000 if you get the towing package.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now for 2025 and beyond, even the hybrid is rated at that with the towing pack.
[SPEAKER_01]: With the equipment, that the oil drive, the front oil drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, all of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of them, I don't know, rated at the 4,000 pounds, which is pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there we are towing a k-truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we've been on a luma trailer in this case, so what's amazing here's the amazing thing about the maverick It has incredible payload.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got I believe what 1400 pound.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the Ford Maverick has more payload than my tundra This is Last generation yeah, I know that's how So here's one thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say about the maverick so we can move on The maverick at the limit which we're almost at right we're pulling [SPEAKER_00]: What, approximately, almost 4,000 pounds here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we should talk about that actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one of our sponsors is a Luma trailer, which we're using.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the great thing about the big texture that we own, we bought.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that weighs about 3300 pounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's heavy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what's its capability?
[SPEAKER_01]: How much can I tell?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like almost 10k, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you could put almost 10k on top of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when you're told and you get it also add the way to the trailer to whatever you're telling.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're telling a three thousand three hundred pound trailer and then you put a seven thousand pound vehicle on top of it now it's over a ten thousand pound.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the trailer is not doesn't magically go away, it's still there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the nice thing about the Luma and the reason we work with them is they're very light.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it allows us to do things like told because if we had the big [SPEAKER_01]: We wouldn't be able to tow the k-track because it would be 3300 and the k-class, what 2000.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the Luma is what 2000 is something?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the Luma, this Luma is 20 feet long and is weighs about 1900 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that allows us a lot more freedom and also it's efficient thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an efficient thing, the less weight you're towing, the more efficient you can be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_00]: So the key track is about 2000, the trailer is about 2000.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're maxing out this Maverick, and this is quite nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's still performed well.
[SPEAKER_00]: The suspension didn't squat a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very stable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes when you reach that limit on an A vehicle, it starts to be a little bit wobbly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It starts to struggle.
[SPEAKER_00]: It starts to kind of sway a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Maverick didn't do any of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Maverick is continuing to surprise.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just continues to surprise, whether it's its fuel economy, which our all-wheel drive version was always in the low 40s, which is incredible, whether it's utility, whether it's inside, I mean, look at you in case now, you're both relatively good large boys and look at how a shoulder room you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, case is very handsome and slim.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but I'm a pretty large one and look at the look at the hat.
[SPEAKER_01]: It fits in the fabric.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: How cool is that I have to say it's one of my favorite trucks I was really sad to sell it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We paid I think 37,000 for it and we lost a bit of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: We lost like 7,000 when we sold it like six months later But we had put 10,000 miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a TFO way Andre.
[SPEAKER_01]: We always lose money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we no no we lose money Maybe on this is the way, but but but we gain money hopefully if people watch our video on videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we should gain a little bit of money there [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's jump to mid-sized trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the cool thing about mid-sized trucks is, I think, another secret that we probably should discuss at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you've got so many varied power trains.
[SPEAKER_01]: So everything from the frontier with a traditional, normally aspirated V6.
[SPEAKER_01]: to the Canyon Colorado twins, which are four-cylinder turbos, to like the Raptor, Ranger, which has a six-cylinder turbo, there's just this huge spread of different kinds of power trains to the Tacoma, which can be hybridized.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's electrified?
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the one thing I would say, the secret is [SPEAKER_01]: Especially when you're towing in the mountains like we are because you're going up to what almost 12,000, 11,000, 11, 158 is that at that point, air density gets very thin and so if you have something like a turbocharger or like a battery that helps with torque, [SPEAKER_01]: It's a good higher elevation.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we love turbos, we love electrification.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just normally aspirated engines while if you're in California, your whole life, pulling back and forth between San Francisco and San Diego, let's say, or LA and San Diego, then it really doesn't matter, but when you come up here anytime you can get something to help out, it's a good day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or especially if you go in like Tahoe or Big Bear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you're not, I'm not getting down on the front here.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, actually there is another little secret Roman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, what is that, Andre?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the lower the displacement of the engine, like the Tacoma has a 2.4 liter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Colorado GM trucks have 2.7 and on and on and on.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lower the displacement, the less kind of breaking power that engine has on the downhill, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, what we've noticed is, especially with the turbocharged engines, they have amazing power, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So much power to go up the mountain and really great control, but we use our brakes more often on the way down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is a trade-offs, so it's not perfect.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, what I would say, because one of the things we promised here, we've got to work a lot of time, is that we would take the best-toeing truck out of the mid-sized trucks, [SPEAKER_01]: The best way to look at that, I think, is [SPEAKER_01]: Not just what the payload is, so you gotta look at the payload, that's first and foremost.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the higher the payload, the more you're gonna be able to tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: And more people you can bring with you, et cetera, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're looking at a good-toeing truck, look first and foremost at the payload.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I would say, look at what you have in terms of helping out the engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a battery?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that battery can also...
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll slow you down.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've slow you down on the way down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the electric motor like in the Maverick, for example.
[SPEAKER_00]: Provides a little bit more resistance on the way down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so that's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a turbo same same kind of deal?
[SPEAKER_00]: How many troubles do you have?
[SPEAKER_01]: How many troubles do you have one?
[SPEAKER_01]: You have two?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes And it's not just about because you would think it's about the car or track that has the more most horsepower No, it's like you said it's more about [SPEAKER_01]: The payload is more about that and is there a specific tow package that allows you to tow more the normal in other words does the vehicle like remember the gladiator the thing that kept the gladiator from towing a lot initially was because of the vehicle [SPEAKER_01]: We'll finish on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll do the other trucks at some other point because we're right at time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Believe it'll be a cliffhanger.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can finish this next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the thing, remember the thing about the gladiator was we said, when they introduced it, we were like, oh, it's a regular with the bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jeep was like, oh, no, no, no, it's not a regular with the bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what they pointed to was the fact that they had a redesign the front of the gladiator to give it better cooling so that it could actually tow stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they they talked about doing a rear suspension system similar to the RAM truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what they said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the thing about the penistar when you're telling, and this is the one that's on the screener.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a screener.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you don't like, and it's incredible, I'm not dissonant the penistar, it's one of the most reliable engines.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it'll go down in history as being one of the most, and it's in everything that's [SPEAKER_01]: I mean they built millions of it and they're you know, they they don't do all when you turbo charge them There's some of our friends have found out, but they do do well a few of them home But the issue with it is it just eight minutes of sawing and you think like a piston's gonna go flying through It never flies through but it screams but it screams yeah, and so turbo is what you five vehicles don't do that [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, with a turbocharger engine, you're usually if the pentastar is at 6,000 rpm, which we saw.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, then the turbocharger engine is like between 2,000 and 3,000 rpm, which makes for a more relaxed driving experience, because you're not hearing the engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to end on a secret and I want to end on something else before I get to the secret.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to end on this first, so we just sold our tremor and we bought that because a lot of you guys were longing for a V8 and the coyote is one of the best V8s out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had an F-150 tremor via with with with the coyote, but I have to say I was very I'm not very but I was somewhat disappointed by its towing ability and we told a pretty good-sized trailer 7,000 foot like adventure trailer from Salt Lake City down to Moab and all the way to Colorado and I did not enjoy towing with that truck and the reason for it is while it sounds phenomenal if you're just driving around town right then big V8 exhaust.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really working hard when you're towing 7,000 pounds and that's not it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's capacity.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's still it's right at that 9,900 pounds Yeah, I would say working hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean you can work because you're the RPM.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Unlike the three five and the four or even the two seven, which are both Twin turbos which seem to be like hey, no problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll toast 7,000 the coyote is is there really working hard You know what it is like we got spoiled [SPEAKER_00]: by the two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two-turbo, two [SPEAKER_00]: That's what everybody had, that V8s.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we had with big block V8s, small V8s, different versions of V8s.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now, you need that 36 scale in tank, when you're telling what the V8s, let's say that, uphill.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to have a hard take.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm doing the I can't let only, not going cross country, but going up and down a mountain, the best toe and truck right now are EVs, Barnan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember the Rivian just flies up the mountain, [SPEAKER_01]: reach out each end just you can gain energy on the right now and it controls a load yes so you want you want to like a like a smooth easy to in truck get yourself a lightning or get yourself a Chevy Sorado EV or Giscia or get yourself a Rivian.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying you're gonna love it when you're going you know to California from color right now because [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're going to recharging in problematic, but we can be.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're going up and down a mountain, oh my God, is it so much fun because there's so much torque, there's so much horsepower and there's so much break region that it just does really well where it falls on its faces and range.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, when we're pulling one of the electric vehicles and we've tested basically everything, right, including the cybertruck and the hummer and everything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: you're never touching the brakes on the way down, because the electric motors have so much capacity and they're actually putting energy back into the battery as we're going down, so we actually never touch the brake once, so what we measure is how much energy actually did we recoup, right on the way down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I failed the Rivian, and that was controversial because we basically took it to the nearest supercharger because we weren't running Rivian's Rob Planner.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did not know this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And part of this is, I mean, me and Andrew had a long discussion about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why I say discussion, I mean, argument.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're screaming at each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because he feels like we should be the experts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we should have known that there's two superchargers in silver thorn, basically, which connects.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do each other like two miles apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the closest one is an old one and the farther one which is by the yesterday is a new one and apparently Rivian works with the newer one but not the older one now to be fair when we plugged it in Nothing said anywhere by the version that is or anything like by the way you might want to go down the street or this Supercharger doesn't work with this truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no message that was nothing but if you had been running [SPEAKER_01]: without planning.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I failed it based on that because we're out of power and now I think to myself, well, why can't I, you know, charge on the supercharging that?
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to perturbation and work was obviously available.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's available.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also was kind of stressed because when you are going low on power and you're pulling a trailer and you're, we don't live there, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we don't know everything about that area.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there was a second [SPEAKER_00]: but you don't want to start driving around looking for things because you're burning energy looking for things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And to be fair, the new superchargers, I think they have a pull-in one for actually towing, so they have one that's kind of like you pull through.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not pull through, it's pull-in.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I say pull-in, imagine there's like six superchargers that are lined up next to each other, and then there's one that's on the side.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's in that line, but it's much farther down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so you can kind of, you could have a trailer there too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you could back out, but you can't pull, pull through would be nice, but you can't pull through, so you can pull in and then back out.
[SPEAKER_01]: But to be fair, I feel bad about that because, you know, that's parsley on me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I should have known that, but like I said, there's nothing, it wouldn't have been hard for Rivian to throw up a message saying, oh, by the way, we'll only work with V, whatever it is, V2 or V3 or V4 or V4 or V4.
[SPEAKER_01]: or three and four versions of superchargers and at this one because once it has that next charging port you just kind of assume let me know in the comments below my am I was at my fault or am I being rational I don't know okay all right and then the last tip this is the most important one that's why I saved it for last I think this is this people think about this the wrong way and I've learned because of you Andre this is the lesson I've learned so usually when people go into buying a [SPEAKER_01]: They think about it or a toe rig.
[SPEAKER_01]: They think about it this way.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the smallest toe rig I can get away with the pull my load?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's Poorly burn it, but you know, I know I understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they kind of go like okay, what's at least amount of money I can spend and get away with the smallest vehicle possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because because it's cheaper [SPEAKER_01]: And the one thing we have found, which is so much nicer, is more truck is always better or more vehicle is always better because at some point you will put more stuff into it or you will decide to go heavy and you're going to have a much better experience if you have a bigger truck than you think you need and it'll be safer, it'll be less stressful and it's also why heavy duty and super duty trucks are so incredibly good at telling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and when we when we had to bring that land cruiser off the mountain when we had an issue We chose a heavy duty diesel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we went right for the diesel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and there's a reason that we keep our diesel trucks for three years and everything else for like six months to a year Because we always want to have a diesel truck the right tool for the right job [SPEAKER_00]: And also, like we talked about Maverick being good at the limit, there's some exceptions to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in generally speaking, you want to have a truck that's not stressed, like a big turbo diesel.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually pulling your big trailer on the mountain.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can afford it, I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can afford it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that Chevy, what we paid about 70,000 for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so it's not very affordable, but nonetheless, if you need, if you have a need, you should try to get as big of a truck as you.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is an exception in this rule.
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: Texas.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be driving a super duty or a no matter, you'll never tone your life and you're going to go to the dealer and you're going to give me that 3,500.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want the 3,500 because in Texas, the bigger the truck, the better the truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether you'll turn out.
[SPEAKER_00]: There, I guess so, one tiny story, one miniature story, I know Cole is tired of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I went to ski at Purgatory Mountain ski resort in near Durango, Colorado, which is South Colorado, and we pull up to the parking lot at the resort and where the mountain is, where everybody's parking to go skiing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every, I would say 70% of vehicles have Texas plates in their all trucks and their all trucks or suburbans 25% of trucks are sold in all trucks and I have [SPEAKER_00]: I was like a kid in the candy store because here's like a lifted super-duity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's a little bit of the Chevy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's a little bit of the Dram.
[SPEAKER_00]: Comments.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's wrapped ours as far as the I could see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody drove a wrapped-o-r to the ski resort.
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because there have big distances.
[SPEAKER_00]: Texas, dude, when we did Ocean to Ocean drive in the lecture cars, we had to drive what was it called?
[SPEAKER_00]: 900 miles across Texas.
[SPEAKER_00]: Texas is a big place, 900 miles, if you go, you know, lengthwise, so when you have big distances, you want to be comfortable, you want to have, you know, some fun, I can't think of anything better than a truck to cross country.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can take a look, still even though they're expensive, they still provide the most all-weather capability, the most all-road capability, the most comfort.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my daily is always either gonna be a truck or some kind of a truck-based SUV.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just love trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the amount of comfort, safety, flexibility they give you, and so I'm with you dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: But never be too confident, Roman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Always a bail-ons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know what we've seen in the mountains and it's no story.
[SPEAKER_01]: People drive in an F-150 at 100 miles an hour during a storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm storm [SPEAKER_01]: Well, finice here, but obviously people go over what the recommended towing amount is, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Think, think, think, think a lot of times, and we've got these stories all the time, you know, I took my old Ranger and I towed a million pounds from the exactly, and yes, you can do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't go two, three, four, five thousand pounds over whatever the to reading is.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's what ends up happening, and this is important, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're at the limit or below the limit, you're kind of feel like this is safe and this is comfortable and this is non-stressful.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you start getting above that, things start to quickly change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all of a sudden, like your safety margin goes down.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you could probably go two, three thousand pounds over whatever the truck's limit is, but then all of a sudden, if you're in the mountains and there's a big, a wind blowing, you're gonna start having issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or it could be that issue could be critical, it could be life threatening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, or you know, you don't, you don't get that weight right on the trailer.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a big problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: You better get that weight, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're going to be torn over the middle of the truck, you better have that tongue weight, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you're going to be squatting, you know, where you're going to be blinding everybody?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well people always say, you know, under white, do you show us the payload and every truck you're testing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I can put whatever the heck I want inside of my truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, and I can, you know, tow from here to Timbuk too.
[SPEAKER_00]: We always say, yes, we have a 22-acre ranch, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I can put a million pounds behind our Chevy and I can move it across the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you ask me, Andre, do you want to go to California with this?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, because it's super very dangerous.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also have also a lethal.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you think practically, if you're above whatever the total limit is, and you're going to accident, you will be sued.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you will not win.
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody feel like that track was not going to stop.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you will not win.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, well, it may look fun to go into runaway truck ramp.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It hurts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we haven't done it, but we've talked to people who have.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's a couple of feet of sand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a nice slow stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's meant to stop an 80,000 pound truck that's out of control.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like hitting a brick wall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, I think we've nailed that down and thank you again for joining us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate that you're watching or listening and head on over to Where Android.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to see more TFL videos?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, all TFL.com or TFLTRAG.com is a nice place.
[SPEAKER_01]: It works hard on that website, so if you want to see it first, head on over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you guys next time, child.
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