Here, “imports” means cars that are brought in from outside the country. Dealers mention it because getting enough stock can be harder depending on where the cars come from.
Concept
small automatics
“Small automatics” are compact cars with an automatic gearbox. They’re often easier to drive in stop-and-go traffic because you don’t have to use a clutch.
The Volkswagen up! is a small, city-friendly car. It’s the kind of car people buy when they want something easy to drive and park, usually with lower day-to-day costs.
A part exchange is when a dealer takes your current car as credit toward the purchase of another car. It’s common in UK car sales and can help dealers manage inventory when sourcing stock is difficult.
All-in pricing is the full price you’ll actually pay, including the extra fees. The idea is to stop dealerships from advertising a lower number and then adding more charges at the end.
Consumer complaints here refer to reported issues about how vehicle prices are presented—especially when advertised prices don’t include all mandatory fees. This kind of feedback can trigger regulatory scrutiny and enforcement actions.
Term
no price analysis
“No price analysis” sounds like the platform won’t show pricing details for dealers that aren’t being transparent about fees. That can make it harder for those dealers to attract buyers.
Lead volume is how many potential buyers a dealer gets through a website or advertising channel. If a dealer isn’t following the rules, they may get fewer leads.
ROI stands for Return on Investment, a metric used to judge whether spending on a product or program is worth the cost. The speaker ties it to building products that deliver value for dealer partners.
CRM is a computer system dealerships use to manage customer leads and follow-ups. It helps sales teams keep track of who’s interested and what they want.
A lead submitted is basically a customer inquiry that gets sent to a dealer to contact and try to sell to. Here, they’re talking about sending those leads to dealerships when shoppers are close to buying.
The Audi A4 is a luxury sedan, meaning it’s built to feel more comfortable and higher-end than a regular car. It’s a common choice for people comparing similar luxury sedans. In the podcast, it’s mentioned because the speaker submitted a lead for one.
The BMW 3 Series is a luxury car in the “compact sedan” category. People often consider it when they want a nicer interior and a more engaging drive than a basic car. In the podcast, it’s brought up because the speaker submitted interest leads for it at several dealerships.
Mystery shopping is when someone tests a dealership’s sales process to see how well they respond to customers. Here, they’re saying they’re building that kind of capability in the UK.
This is a set of tools that uses AI to help with sales follow-up. The idea is that the system can respond more specifically to what the customer asked for.
A sales funnel is the steps from first interest to buying the car. They’re saying salespeople should guide the customer through those steps to improve closing rates.
Auto Trader is a website in the UK where people shop for cars. In this segment, it’s also being used by dealers to understand buyers better and generate more sales leads.
“Buying signals” are clues from data that suggest whether a shopper is likely to actually buy a car. Dealers can use that to focus their time on the most promising leads.
Topic
Card Dealer Magazine
They’re pulling story ideas from a magazine called Card Dealer Magazine. It’s mainly used to set up what news they’ll talk about.
“Reduce complexity” in an automaker context usually means simplifying the number of models, variants, platforms, and parts used across the lineup. That can lower costs and make manufacturing and supply chains easier, but it often leads to workforce and dealer disruption when production plans change.
Person
Bloom
They mention the company’s CEO making decisions about factories. When a CEO shuts factories, it can mean fewer cars are built and sold through dealers.
“Equipment options” are the add-on features and packages you can choose when buying a car. If a company cuts them, the car gets simpler to build, but buyers may have fewer choices.
Porsche is a well-known performance car brand. In this discussion, it’s mentioned as being part of the same group-wide changes affecting what cars and options get offered.
Term
tariffs to the US
Tariffs are extra taxes on imported products. If tariffs rise, it can make it harder for certain cars to be sold profitably across borders.
“Chinese car makers” are car companies from China. The point here is that they’ve become strong competitors, making it harder for European brands to sell as well.
Market share means how much of the car-buying market a brand takes. If Chinese brands take more market share, it can hurt other brands’ sales and profits.
Volkswagen Group is the big company behind several car brands. If they change their plans, it can impact lots of different models sold through dealers.
A “model lineup” is the list of different car models a brand sells. Cutting it by half means the brand plans to sell far fewer different cars going forward.
Term
product development
Product development is how a car company plans and builds its next vehicles. It includes deciding what to make, how to engineer it, and what features to focus on.
A tariff is a tax on imported products. If cars from another country get taxed, the dealer and manufacturer often have to charge more, so the cars can end up costing more to you.
“Chinese manufacturers” refers to automakers based in China that are expanding into other markets. Their competitiveness is often discussed in terms of cost structure and manufacturing efficiency, which can influence pricing and market share abroad.
Term
capitalization structure
This is basically how a company is funded—how much it relies on loans versus investors. The host is saying some companies are set up better than others to handle big market changes.
Term
AI
AI is computer software that can learn patterns and help make decisions or automate tasks. The host is using it as an example of how companies can use new tech to improve efficiency.
Here, “transformation” means a company has to change how it does things—like updating what it builds and how it delivers value. The idea is to adapt instead of just cutting people.
The handbrake is what keeps a car from rolling when it’s parked. Some newer cars use an electronic parking brake instead of a lever, so it may not be where you expect.
An electronic parking brake is a parking-brake system that works with a button or switch, not a traditional lever. It can feel unfamiliar at first if you’re used to older cars.
Skywell is a car brand from China that tried to sell cars in the UK through local dealers. The episode says those dealers got stuck when the company importing Skywell cars into the UK shut down.
“Left in limbo” means the dealers don’t know what happens next. They’re stuck waiting because the business relationships that normally support the brand have broken down.
Innovation Automotive is the company that was importing Skywell cars into the UK. When it stopped trading, it left Skywell dealers without clear support or supply.
Here, an importer is the company that brings a car brand into the UK and helps make sure cars can be sold through dealers. If that company shuts down, dealers can be left without cars or support.
“Ceased trading” means the company has stopped business operations. In car terms, that can leave dealers without a functioning supply chain or support.
BYD is a Chinese car brand that’s selling a lot of cars in the UK. The episode uses BYD’s sales numbers to show that some Chinese brands are doing very well, even though others aren’t.
Brand
JQ
JQ is another Chinese car brand the hosts say is doing well in the UK. They mention it had only recently launched, but it was already selling enough to be near BYD’s numbers in June.
Negative equity means your car is worth less than what you still owe on it. So when you try to change cars, the “extra” you owe can make the new deal cost more.
Test driving is the consumer practice of driving a vehicle before buying to evaluate comfort, drivability, and fit for real-world conditions. In this segment, it’s mentioned as being restricted for certain Chinese brands, which can affect how easily shoppers can compare alternatives.
Term
average price point
“Average price point” just means the typical price level people are paying. They’re using it to say new cars are getting expensive, so fewer people can afford them.
Concept
free market
“Free market” means businesses and customers decide what sells, with less government interference. Here, they’re arguing that rules may be making it harder for certain car brands to compete.
Topic
US regulation affecting Chinese EV brands
They’re talking about US laws that could make it harder for certain Chinese car brands to sell. They link that to what’s going on with Polestar and the broader EV market.
V12 sports and classics is a dealer that snapped up the remaining cars that were still sitting in the market. It’s an example of how used-car businesses can step in when new-car supply gets disrupted.
Brand
BYUD
BYD is a big Chinese car company. The hosts say Denza is BYD’s premium brand, meaning Denza is positioned as the higher-end arm of the same parent group.
Goodwood is a famous UK event venue for cars and motorsport. If a brand unveils a new car there, it’s usually meant to get a lot of attention from enthusiasts and the media.
Denza is a Chinese car brand that makes electric cars. The host is pointing out that Denza’s prices in the UK are surprisingly high compared with what people expect to pay for Chinese EVs.
The Denza Z Coupe is an electric coupe from the Chinese brand Denza. The host mentions its starting price and then questions whether enough people will actually pay that much for a Chinese electric sports car.
Brake horsepower is a way of measuring how much power a car’s engine makes. The host is saying the car’s power number is huge, even though they don’t think it will sell.
0-60 is a simple acceleration test: how fast the car goes from 0 to 60 mph. The host is using it to show the car is claimed to be very quick, but they doubt people will actually buy it.
An electric sports car is a fast, performance-focused car powered by electricity. The host is saying people may not want to pay premium prices for a Chinese electric sports car.
Pagani is a very expensive Italian supercar brand that makes small numbers of cars. The host uses it as an example of why people might pay huge money—because the cars are top-tier performers.
Jaguar is a British luxury car brand. The host is talking about Jaguar’s electric car and wondering who would actually want it, since it’s different from what many buyers expect.
In the UK, the Motability Scheme is a program that helps people with mobility needs get a car on a lease. If a car is available through it, more people can access it more easily.
Corvette is a well-known American sports car from Chevrolet. The speaker is saying that even if something is niche, there are still people who want it.
Deal Builder is an online car-deal configuration and pricing tool associated with Auto Trader. The speaker says Auto Trader set up customer advisory groups in response to controversy around Deal Builder, implying it affected how buyers build or price deals.
They’re debating a feature on a car-selling website that uses colors to judge whether a car’s price looks good or overpriced. The show also covers a possible change to make those colors less harsh.
It’s the same idea as traffic lights: green means good/okay, yellow means caution, and red means warning. In car ads, it’s used to show whether the price seems low, fair, or high.
Term
original price instant market value
It’s a pricing method that tries to estimate what a car is worth using market info and shows you that number right away. The goal is to make pricing feel more straightforward instead of something you have to negotiate with a dealer.
Here, “complete transparency” means the site shows buyers all the important info about a car, not just a simplified rating. The point is to help shoppers make decisions with less guesswork.
“Ratings” are the labels a car marketplace uses to tell you how good or bad a vehicle is. The host is saying that if not every car gets a rating, shoppers don’t get the full picture.
Term
sort order
“Sort order” refers to how search results are ranked and displayed in the listing interface. The speaker treats it as part of transparency because it affects what consumers see first and how easily they can compare options.
“Race to the bottom” means people try to win by cutting things to the lowest possible level. In this conversation, they’re saying they don’t want to compete by undercutting on price or service.
EV just means an electric car. Instead of using gasoline, it runs on electricity stored in a battery.
LIVE
The Cardila podcast is sponsored by AutoTrader.
John, have I mentioned that we sell more cars from adverts on AutoTrader than anywhere else?
Yes, I think I read that somewhere.
Well, with over 84 million consumer visits per month,
they connect retailers like us with more potential buyers than any other platform.
But it's not just about the numbers, is it?
Is that what you say to your accountant?
Because the support and the value we get from AutoTrader is, well, invaluable.
We now get AI-powered insight on every online inquiry about the level of buying intent from
each customer, incredible amounts of data about the cars that we'll sell in our local area,
and around-the-clock service support from our account manager.
It sounds like AutoTrader is basically doing all the work for you, James.
No, John, I still do some things like take out the bins.
Anyway, to find out more about how AutoTrader can help you, visit autotrader.co.uk slash partners slash retailer.
Hello, and welcome back to the Cardila podcast.
I'm your host this week, Rebecca Chaplin.
And if you've never heard of us before, we bring you the latest news and updates
from the automotive industry every single week.
So welcome back.
This week, I am joined by Editor-in-Chief of Cardila, James Bagger, who wasn't here last week.
How are things going with you?
I'm good.
Thanks.
Nice to be back.
Thank you for holding the fort last week for us.
I enjoyed your podcast and your chat with AI.
Very, very interesting.
I did do my homework.
Well done.
So what's been going on at the dealership and things like that?
I've got to get hot.
Yes, incredibly hot, but everybody knows that.
Yeah, on the on the dealership front, it's been very good.
I've moaned over the last few podcasts about how quiet it is.
And then I was on holiday last week and so was Joe.
And we left a young Luke on his own and he sold 12 cars in a week.
He absolutely flying, which was really nice to see because it's given him a huge boosting confidence.
I think he really, he really needed it.
He needed the opportunity to sort of shine and he absolutely did.
Yeah, he sold five on Saturday alone.
So he was absolutely over the moon and yeah, very, very positive.
So pretty good.
I think the market seems to be not too bad considering the sun is shining,
the World Cup is still happening and normally that means people stay away.
But yeah, been pretty good for us.
So I'm very happy.
Good.
What people buying at the moment?
What people buying?
Pretty much everything really.
I mean, we're still doing a lot of imports.
So still specializing in those Japanese imports.
They seem to have been very popular.
So small automatics are doing well for us.
Little Volkswagen ups have been flying out the door.
A few polos we've sold and some some Jimneys quite.
We've taken quite a few UK Jimneys in part exchange
against some of those Japanese import ones we've done,
which means we're dealing with a slightly different buyer.
But yeah, nice to have some part exchanges
because as we know, sourcing stock is not the easiest.
So yeah, nice to have some part exchanges.
So yeah, pretty much a little bit of everything really.
Very good.
When I walk around Gosport now I see a Jimney every time I go out.
So I think the bubble is about to burst.
That's good news.
That's good news.
Hopefully it's got a kind of car collection logo in the window.
That's what we like to see.
Yeah, just one other little thing I just want to tell you about is
we've decided at the Clever Car Collection to support local charity this year.
Well, for the rest of this year we decided to launch a bit of a campaign on our social media
and let the local people of Gosport choose which charity that should be.
And yeah, that was running throughout June.
We've now decided who it's going to be.
We've picked a local charity called Gosport Community Service.
And I met the ladies who run it yesterday.
They had an amazing story.
They were made redundant in April of this year from a charity that did something very similar
and they didn't want to let those people there looking after down.
What they do is they provide services to elderly people in the local area who haven't
got anybody else.
So they'll send volunteers around to spend some time with them, chat to them.
A lot of these people never get out of the house
and just these volunteers turn up and having a cup of tea with them
makes a huge difference to them.
And they just were telling me this story to these two ladies
incredibly passionate about what they're doing.
And just, you know, when you meet people who are just doing something really special in life
and it's really inspiring.
And yeah, they were over the moon that we've decided to donate some money
from every car we sell for the rest of the year to them.
They've just started up and they said it's going to make a huge difference.
But it was an inspiring chat.
And yeah, I think I'll just say other dealers out there listening to this,
try and get out there and help support your local community if you can
because I would never have heard of this charity if it wasn't for this campaign.
And they were over the moon that we can do something quite small for them,
but will make a huge difference.
So yeah, quite inspiring actually.
That filled me with a bit of joy.
Yeah, and even if you went from the very cynical business perspective,
it got a really good reception on Facebook and Instagram.
So I was not surprised, but it impressed how many people in Gosport came out
and with so many different charities.
Yeah, we asked them to vote for them.
We asked them to, our followers to nominate the charity we should be supporting
rather than us picking it, which gave us some nice engagement with the local community.
And obviously we wanted to raise our profile a little bit.
That's why we did it.
But also being a local person and a local business,
I wanted to try and do a little bit for the local community as well.
So yeah, it was nice.
And I think there's probably lots of dealers out there who are probably thinking,
well, how can I get a bit of free publicity?
Well, it's not technically free because obviously we're donated to a charity,
but it's a great way of raising raising your profile,
especially on social media.
So maybe some people listening to this can go and try and do the same.
And it is tax deductible.
It is tax deductible.
Thank you.
You want to be inspired by helping your local community.
It's all good stuff.
Okay, I'm going to introduce our guest now,
because I'm sure he's got lots to say about what's going on in your dealership.
It is Sam Zales from CarGurus.
Who, am I right in thinking you're joining us from Boston right now?
I am, Rebecca.
Thank you.
I am.
What time is it?
Early in the morning, hence the bags under the eyes.
How are you doing, Sam?
I'm doing great.
And first of all, I want to thank you and James Rebecca for this opportunity.
You've been partners for CarGurus for 11 years now.
I went to look back.
I think it was June 2015, the car dealer expo.
I don't know what number that was for you, James, when you were earlier in the business.
But you were our entree into the market.
You literally introduced us to all of our business partners for inventory feeds,
for website developers, for our dealers, introducing us to dealers in the community.
It's a true pleasure because the partnership has been phenomenal.
You're a great source in our industry because you're also a car dealer.
And I'm really proud of your success at Clever Car Collection, James.
To know what's going on in the industry and push us as partners.
And CarGurus wants to be the partner to help dealers continue to grow their business.
So I'm really excited to be here.
I want to congratulate you, though, on that decision to give back to the community.
It's interesting.
Both CarGurus and Piston Heads have a portion of our profits that go to the communities we
serve and work in.
And Piston Heads in their annual service.
You may know they run this annual service event where collectors and people come in for those
events actually gave in the Midlands to donated their proceeds to the firefighters community
and where they had their event.
Because a firefighter was lost last year and the community all rallied around that.
I love that you're doing that.
We tell our staff members who are working with dealers,
their retailers and business people just like we are.
They're serving their local communities.
And the fact that you're doing that for the elderly in your community says to us,
we're working the same way in business.
And I really appreciate that you're doing that, James.
Congratulations.
Thank you, Sam.
Thank you.
Very, very nice of you to say.
And yeah, I think it's when I thought about that campaign, it's a little bit like,
Cardi's don't have the best of reputations, unfortunately.
And I know that the industry has been working very, very hard to change that.
I think every little thing that we can do to try and improve our standing in the community
will help no end.
Sam, let's just start with a little bit of your background.
Because you've told people about what you do because in Cargo is in America,
having been out to NADA this year and seen it before, Cargo is in America is huge.
Yeah, it is.
It is.
And I'm really proud of our success here.
We're trying to replicate that success in the UK and Canada.
We're number two, as you know, to a big player there in those markets.
But we try to replicate the model that we took here to the US.
So all the success goes to our founder Langley Steiner.
And I give him the biggest credit.
You may know that he founded the company after founding TripAdvisor.
So a guy who's had a little bit of success in the consumer tech arena.
But he used the same model when he and Steve Koffer, who's also on our board and was the
longtime CEO of TripAdvisor.
They took a model that said, let me look at a tough consumer purchase process.
One that's sort of obtuse because you don't have all the information in front of you
and providing them with transparency.
He sort of wrote the book on transparency.
The model was, let me give them all the information on the places somebody could visit.
And let me give consumer ratings on that experience.
And I'll create a business that creates liquidity between the consumer
and the travel location that they're going to.
So they sold that company.
And then when public and Langley said, I'm going to go do this again,
the same model providing transparency in the market to a tougher and bigger purchase.
So he looked at two industries, real estate,
which home buying is the biggest purchase a consumer ever makes.
And the second biggest purchase they make is Automotive.
Zillow was a company that already started in the US at the time.
And he said, I'm going to, I didn't know the guy who founded it, smart guy,
I'm going to go in the auto space because I have interest in the auto arena.
And I'm going to do the same thing.
And so if you're interested in how we got, thanks for asking James,
the number one position in the US market, it was doing the same thing at a time.
Dealers were not particularly interested in that deep transparency.
And I think that's now the story in today's market.
Consumers are looking for that transparency.
What we did was we created something very different.
We competed with companies called AutoTrader, a different business than the UK.
Cars.com, they were all there before us.
They worked as classified businesses.
So they put a listing up and their listing sort order was,
who's paying me the most?
That's going to be the top of the listings and that's how I make money.
And that's how I provide an offering to the consumers.
Langley went about it and then when I got into the company 12 years ago,
we said, let's sort like Google does, not like Yahoo does.
Yahoo was pay for placement and Google was,
let's give the most relevant search to the consumer.
So what we did was create, and I hope I'm not going into too much detail here, James
and Rebecca, the instant market value.
How does that use car compare at a price point versus every other one in the marketplace that's similar?
How do I sort my listings?
I'm going to sort by most relevant to the consumer search.
We even offered the freemium product we still have today.
If a dealer's not paying but they're on our free system and they say,
I'm at the top of the listings, it's the best search result for the consumer,
that dealer's going to get the first choice.
We hope they join the paid program and find much more close rate and ROI for their program.
And then we said we're going to put more information on their price drops
and how long has that vehicle been on the market?
And I can tell you, going into dealerships in 2014, the feedback was,
Sam, we loved this business before the internet and you guys came along,
because you provided so much transparency to the consumer.
We used to keep a lot of that information to ourselves.
But what we created was liquidity between the consumers and the dealers.
And I'm just so proud that that led us to number one position by far and away,
the number one position in consumer demand of all the automotive marketplaces.
We have 54% of the minutes spent on all of them in the US.
And in a marketplace business, if you get the consumers, that leads to dealers.
And we have 26,000 dealers on the program in the US.
We're trying to replicate that model in the UK and Canada.
Sorry for the long-winded overview.
No, no, no, it's actually fine, that's fascinating to hear.
How long did it take you to become the number one?
And just give those people listening an idea of the scale.
You know, talk to me about some of the numbers, because I know they're huge as well.
Yeah, thanks for asking.
So the company was actually founded in 2006.
So we're celebrating two great things this year, 20 years in the US and 10 years in the UK,
which we'll talk about, I'm sure, on the podcast.
And thanks for asking for the story.
Langley started the business more like our piston heads business in the UK.
It was a blogging site in the very early days, 2006.
Think about it.
It was consumers talking about vehicles they like and providing a lot of information back
and forth to one another, the garage, where do I keep my car, how am I buying my next vehicle.
And that created a ton of relevance for Google.
So Organic Search was a huge win for us, where free traffic was coming in,
because we were the most relevant automotive site.
But we were way behind the market in terms of our ability to get that consumer to a dealer
to transact.
So it wasn't until 2013 or so that we said, people are asking, consumers are asking,
how do I buy that vehicle?
I now want to buy that vehicle that I heard somebody talking about.
And so to connect us in as a marketplace, we went out to the market to talk to dealers.
And we had none on our platform.
We first started by partnering with the other automotive marketplaces, cars.com and some of
the others.
And they saw us gaining in traffic and said, we're not going to work with you anymore.
You've got to do your own marketplace.
So we were probably number six or seven in the market when I joined in 2014 from a visitor
perspective.
And then my task when I came into the company, I'd been running a number of venture-backed
businesses.
Langley said to me, hey, we've known each other for many years in the Boston tech market.
I'm on to something big here.
Come in and be an adult in the room.
We've got a lot of young kids figuring out how to get this stuff done.
And those young kids helped us build the thousands of dealers on the platform because we did offer
this freemium model and said, try it out for free.
If the consumers, we connect you to create some transaction capability, we did it through
an anonymized connectivity.
Now, if you go join our paid program, you'll get 10 times the close rate because we're giving
you phone leads, email, text chat, WhatsApp, as we do there in the UK, and clicks to your
website, map and direction clicks.
So to the scale question, James, we're 40 million plus visitors a month coming to the
site, which is incredible.
We've created a billion-dollar business here in the industry.
We have, as I said, 30 plus thousand customers across the globe.
And what that does is when you create that consumer demand, dealers find it.
And as we've done this in our research in the UK, the highest ROI program because,
and I'll be faulted for this or praise for it at the company, Langley still gives me
a lot of heat for this stuff, I went with adoptive pricing in the market.
We'd say to dealers, try it.
See, you've been with the other players who've been there forever.
Just like we did in the UK when you advised us, we're going in there, there's auto trader
in there.
Try this other service.
It could be great for you.
And CarGurus creates the highest ROI, then you can keep retaining business and work with
them over time.
I hope that answers your question.
Absolutely.
Give me an idea of a state in the nation of the car market in the States then.
Before we get onto the UK, I mean, what's it like out there?
I mean, is it a tough environment?
It is.
And I appreciate that you live in the industry.
And I would say it is one of the choppier markets I've been in just in very recent
terms.
I'll give you a couple of the latest trends in the US market.
There's a dealer podcast and group car dealer guy and a car dealership guy.
I'm sure you're familiar with it.
He's a terrific partner and great industry leader.
There's an article that he wrote this week on a survey of 300 or so franchise dealers.
Feedback was, one, I am not making any of the profits that I made in 2024 and 2025.
It's just a tougher market.
24 and 25 may have been just a tremendously fruitful era for the industry, for our dealer
partners.
And it's just tougher right now.
Margins on vehicles are much harder.
The price point of new vehicles in the US has gotten so astonishing.
It's just out of the reach of an average consumer.
Gas prices are as high as they are.
And then we'll throw on one added dimension that has just thrown everything into the mix,
which is the Federal Trade Commission in the US.
I'm not sure you've been following this story.
In the US has said, we're going to lock down on pricing in all in pricing in our market.
So dealers, if you're not disclosing full fees and you know that in the US, you can,
and I'm not sure if there's a similar regulating body in the UK,
but if you're not displaying all of your documentation fees, any other fees you're
providing, we're going to force it because we've seen consumer complaints about the ability to
walk into a dealership and say, well, the price was listed at 20,000 pounds, but you're telling me
it's 22,000 with the other fees you're throwing on top of it.
So Carcassus has tried to take the lead in the market in the way we've been the trust and
transparent partner to every one of our consumers and dealers who works with us and said,
we're going to go out front and say, if dealers are not disclosing their fees on our site,
you're going to get a no price analysis, which means your lead volume is going to be heard,
because I want to help the dealers who are transparent and doing the right thing in compliance.
So that's another thing into the mix of this very difficult consumer
demand industry. And as you said earlier, James, acquiring vehicles and getting late
model stock is extremely hard. So I think we're trying to help our dealers
see themselves through this challenging market. I hope we find a way to get gas prices down.
We'd love to get interest rates down, but those are things thrown into the mix that
dealers are saying it's not like 24 and 25 were challenged. And so partners like CarGurus are
trying to help provide the quick liquidity of getting a consumer in there to buy and hopefully
buy at a price point that grows profitability for our dealers. And moving on to onto the UK,
I mean, you've been here for 10 years and I remember fondly those conversations we have
right at the start. We had a video call like this, didn't we? Before video calls was very
popular, I think, before you came over to the UK and came to CDX and talked to me about
what you're doing. And I remember back then you explained your plans and you can imagine
covering this industry for as long as I have done, make myself sound old. I've seen lots of
newcomers into this used car market advertising arena and not all of them have survived.
How have you managed to do it here in the UK? Gosh, James, you are bringing me back to the
memories of 2015. And at CDX, you walked us around to all of the potential partners and you
had us just connect into the dealers. I can't again say that I couldn't be more grateful for
that opportunity. What I did on that trip, you'll remember, is we went around the Midlands, then
I went to London just to walk to the very small dealerships in a local arena and then the very
large dealerships. You hit it right on that every single dealer I spoke to said, good luck to you.
You're all going to try to be the number two. We've seen them come. go.
And you're not going to make it unless you become this amazing television advertiser where
you get a huge audience. You can build that. I can tell you, you go to Langley, our founder,
who built the business without any of that. It was Google search. And we will find the way
people are searching and get them into the platform. And so to remember the dealers said that to us
and that they said, but I'd love you to be in here to compete with Auto Trader. And there's no
disrespect. I have such respect for that great business. But we'd like an alternative. We'd
like to diversify our spend and their price point raises every year. And I might not be getting
anything new for it every year that I'm paying for. I'd love to have an alternative to keep them
honest. So looking back on that 10 years ago with all the introductions you made,
you know, how has it happened? It's keeping that playbook in the US that made us go from
number seven to number three to number two to number one and trying to retain that and do that
again against some very tough competition and the largest player in the marketplace. But we're
going to try to keep doing that. And I think the best story for all of that coming out 10 years
later, we spent a lot of money and lost a lot of money. And I'll be honest with you, those were
tough board meetings where the board would say to me, Sam, you know, you're spending a lot of money
to build that consumer audience and to build the ontology. You'll remember you introduced us to
glasses at the time. We now work with cap. It's like, you've got to build that whole infrastructure
to get it there. And you're spending time with a team. We have a team in Dublin. We have a team in
the UK that works with the dealers. You're spending a lot of money. Is there an outpost on this where
you become big enough to be important and relevant in the market? And 10 years later, I can look and
say, we've grown that business tremendously with thousands of dealers on the platform.
We'd love more to try us out. We're always the adoptive pricing, you know, player in the market
where we make it convenient for dealers to try as you did at Clever Car, James. Appreciate that.
And then, you know, that investment over time becomes something where you can run the business
profitably. We added in piston heads. And we just couldn't be more proud that the dealers today say
you're the number one ROI provider in the marketplace. You may not provide the most leads,
but the lead quantity and quality drives ROI to our business so I can spend more money creating
more profits and invest in other things for my business. I couldn't be more proud of the team
that's worked on that. And the persistence to say, and the partnership, frankly, from dealers,
we started a dealer executive council 10 years ago, excuse me, 10 years ago, where a set of
dealers would just provide us, this is what you need to build here. And I'm proud that we've tried
to continue to be that kind of high integrity partner to the dealers in the UK. Can you become
number one in the UK? We have ambitions always to win in the marketplace, you know, and I'd say
it's not out of the question to do that. We certainly keep ourselves grounded in pragmatism.
The auto trader business there is humongous. They've had that long history of being in the market,
but I think there are things that we're doing that could lead us to take over a number one
position. Part of that depends on dealers like you, James, saying, I want to partner with you,
I'm going to keep investing in you to help keep growing the business. And we need more of the
market to do that. I think the fear in most dealers is if I get off the auto trader business
or take money away from it, it may hurt my sales. What we found from most of our, certainly the
members of the AM 100 who try to do this and say, I'm going to be a little more aggressive down to
the very small independences. Once I try that, once I take a little bit of spend from a player
and put it here, and again, the surveys tell us we're number one in ROI in the market,
I can keep investing in that, and then we can build our quantity and our volume to get there.
But I think to get there, James, to your good question, number one message that I'm really
proud of is about a third of our audience doesn't go to auto trader. They literally come to car
gurus and don't go to a competitive automotive marketplace. That says something again about
this transparency of our data, the information that we're providing. We're a little more aggressive
on those price drops and how long the vehicle's been on the market because it makes the consumer
want to transact. And we think that's really a great way to do things. So many of those consumers
coming in and not going to another site, ROI is critical. And then again, it's how do we keep
advancing that consumer transparency? So at some point, I love to talk to you about the newest
product we developed, which is called Discover, the truly first AI conversational search capability
in the market. And so as we keep innovating, I think we have a shot to be number one long term,
and that will require us to keep investing. And our dealer partners to work with us.
One thing we won't do in the market is have 70% of our dollars that are paid to us go to our
profit stream. If I gave one fault to the auto trader businesses, they take all that money in
and give it to their shareholders. For us, and Langley's always said this, still the chairman
of the company and meet with them weekly and our CEO, Jason Trevison and I are always thinking,
how do we keep investing? It's taking some profit, but it's reinvesting most of our dollars,
our dealers pay us, into product development. If we can keep doing that, we have the chance
to be number one long term. Tell me a little bit about that Discover product then. Is that the one
that I saw when I was out at NADA and heard about how this AI searches has been laid over the top of
the product in the States? Because what I was shown was very impressive. And I think it's the
way that people are searching for cars. They're having a conversation with AI rather than searching
for make and model. Is that what I can expect to see here? That is what you're seeing. And you folks
at Car Dealer Magazine are getting the first exclusive on this, where I think we're announcing it
next week, but I wanted to let you all know this is launching in the UK and is live now.
It is what you saw, James. And I think it's taking advantage of that consumer trend. 76% of UK
consumers said, I'd want to use AI as part of my search. And about a fifth of them are already using
AI in their last automotive process and their last automotive purchase. So we know this is happening
in the US. We built this in the US. It's become a phenomenal driver of consumer demand, where most
people start their search, not knowing exactly what vehicle they're looking for. I'm sure you see
that at Clevercar. They walk in knowing what they want. So what we built was truly the first
conversational, context-aware AI capability. You'll see competitors who say, I have an AI-based
search tool set, but it's a AI tool set based on the filters you always see on the left side of a
search box on any of the automotive marketplaces. This is why we're saying it's truly the first
and most advanced AI search capability because it's conversational. It's context-aware and it is
additive each time the consumer puts a prompt in, just like you'll do with the LLMs. It's built with
multiple LLM partnerships to get this developed. And so what we're seeing in the UK, and I have some
data here. I'm happy to read it to you, is every search starts with a different kind of prompt. 72%
of our searches are coming in with unique identifiers that consumers looking for. So
I used it in the US. I hate to tell the story, but my mom is 90 years old. She wanted a new car.
She has a different set of needs than a 40-year-old or a 20-year-old might be looking for their
vehicle. So to go through a search and say, and literally prompt in, what is the most safe,
cost-effective, highly efficient vehicle that a 90-year-old might drive? And you go through that
search process and the context-aware is you just keep asking more questions. This tool set with
Discover provides a comparison of the cars right through there when you're looking at it. We built
this using the 10 years of data from consumer prompts and consumer information to say, what is
the typical next question? How do I compare the instant market value on that vehicle versus
another one? We're finding it to be a tremendous... We were in beta until today, but we found
tremendous insight into the types of searches consumers are doing. So I'm happy to share more
about it, but it is truly first conversational in the market. I mean, it sounds amazing. So
what I'm interested in as a dealer is how do I ensure that I appear in those results?
Terrific question. So you will appear if you're part of the CarGurus platform because
what we're using is the information on all the livestock in the market, the price points that
we've gathered again through instant market value for all the years that we've been building
that capability, the millions of consumer touch points, but you'll appear in that search result
because as the consumer goes through those prompts, as I said, they're starting with the general,
I live in the South area. I need a car that's great for the outdoors. I have three kids,
so I'd like it to have a couple of extra rows of seats. Then they're going to filter their search
down, compare vehicles, and what we're finding in the US is a huge percent of those consumers end
that search process even on the first search submitting a lead to our system. So how you're
going to appear in that is they'll look at the comparatives of the vehicles and then it's,
here are, would you like us to share the vehicles that are on sale in your local market or can be
sold in your local arena where you live for a consumer who may be using our area boost product
I sell in a local outside of my local market? You'll appear in those search results. What we
haven't done, you may be getting to this, James, is you'll note some of the LLMs are now offering
sponsored search results. We're testing those with some of the big players in the US market.
It's very small volume right now. In the US, sorry, in the UK, we discover we may build that for
the future, but for right now, every dealer has an opportunity to go through that conversational
search the consumer's doing and have their vehicles show up at the end of that process.
Ultimately, what we think is most important to dealers is you're finding a consumer who didn't
want to submit a lead originally because they weren't sure what they wanted. They're not ready to
submit their contact information. Oh, call me by phone or what's happening about that vehicle.
We're taking the huge percentage of consumers who don't know what they want,
conversationally coming down that AI stream and then at the end saying, now I am ready to contact
that dealer and I'm more prepared for that purchase process and ready to go. Interestingly,
I've got stat here. Most of our consumers coming in on Discover so far in the UK
are sharing their budgets, which is so important. Think about that and how important that is for
you as a dealer to be able to close that transaction because you've gotten some information on the
budget that consumer can afford. That's a more qualified lead. We're really excited about where
this takes us for the future. I just want to touch on just one more topic just before we
move on to our news stories. In the UK, obviously, there's been a big shift
off the back of auto traders move to this deal builder product, which at the end of last year
was very controversial. We've covered it at length and auto traders, to be fair to them,
have made some tweaks to it. What would you say to dealers listening to this who might be thinking
that you would go down a similar route? Well, thanks for asking that. We always respect our
competition. If you know anything about the CarGurus business, if I left your viewership
and your dealers with anything to know about our business, I always say it starts with integrity.
Do things the right way. You don't build long-term partnerships without that being your core values.
It's the number one value at our company. Do the right thing by our partners and we'll have long-term
success. I don't disparage the competition. I followed every one of your stories. We did hear
from a lot of dealers at that time as we don't want to be pushed. We want to know what products
build best for us and we'll do business with you to see that comparison, that diversification of
my spend. I think the big thing is when we came to the market, we built a dealer executive council.
We still have members who come and I come over there frequently and I got to make my next trip
and see you folks and just listen to their feedback. The feedback is don't shove a product down my
throat. Put it into Pilot. Alpha and Beta and let's work together. I had a dealer in the
US, James, who I couldn't believe it, Rebecca. They said, we don't want to pilot those things
because we don't want to pilot your products because then you're going to charge me for it.
Of course, every technology company tests things in the market the right way to make sure we're
building it that meet the needs of our customers. Of course, at some point, if we invest in it,
we sell that product. I hope there's again, number one in ROI will build something that works
for our partners. But we've always listened to our customers to say, try it first before you
force it down the customers' throats. For us, I think the approach is we're going to look at all
of our products and follow the roadmap in the US. If I have a couple of minutes just to tell you a
couple of new products we built in the US, which you might see, I'm not going to promise them,
you might see in the UK, we're so proud of the new things we're building there. We built a product
called Shopper Signals in the US, which gives into the CRM all of the information of that
consumer shopping pattern. I did submit a lead on that Audi A4, but I also submitted a lead for a
BMW 3 Series at these three other dealerships. That helps the dealer know, golly, that consumer's
ready to purchase and they're looking at two or three other vehicles in the market.
We built a mystery shopping capability, which we've now started to build in the UK.
Let me tell you how your salespeople follow up on the lead that was submitted. It's all
agentic. It's all AI driven tool set, but the consumer put in these specific requirements
and your salesperson only didn't just ask generic questions. You want to come down funnel because
you'll close them more effectively. We built a product called VinMax in the US, which allows
exposure to vehicles that have been on the lot for too long and gets them up in different tool sets
to get out in front of those customers. We've seen 20% growth in lead volume for those customers
who are using it. We're building those products all with the mindset of saying, how do we help the
dealer make more money to your question? I think we're going to constantly listen to our customers
and build the product roadmap that best meets their needs. I'll give you one more example.
We built this tool set called dealer data insights. It's just data to help dealers run their business
more effectively. There's a tool that we use called acquisition insights reports. You were
talking at the beginning, James, about acquiring inventory. This is a tool set that says consumer
demand in your local market in Gosport where you're selling, these are the highest products in
demand on the CarGurus consumer demand platform. This is the searches they're doing the most of.
I would stock those because you sell them very well. Here's some information for you to use.
We're constantly thinking about how do we build products to help our customers grow their business,
and that's how we're going to hopefully still continue to take more share in the marketplace.
I want those tools, so you have to send them my way please.
I'll talk to you about how Owen will make sure that happens.
Good man. Right, really good to see you. Thank you for sharing your time so early in the morning
over in Boston, but Rebecca, we should probably do some stories.
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with more than 84 million consumer visits every month, it connects us with more engaged car buyers
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to supporting us to get the very best from our package to find out how they can help you visit
trade.autotrader.co.uk. Now, back to the podcast.
Yes, so I will explain how this is going to work if you've never listened before. So James and I
have both picked our favourite stories of the week that have appeared on Card Dealer Magazine,
and we're going to take it in turns to talk about them. And at the end, Sam has the final say on
who chose the best stories. And he's going to tell us if he thinks we missed anything too.
So I won last week when I was playing against John. So maybe I should probably go first.
Well, I think you should. Because that is how it works.
I know, but usually I don't do two weeks in a row. So my top story is a story from today,
which is the news about Volkswagen and how they've said they're going to cut models up to 50%
and reduce complexity. There's a lot of, well, there's a combination of things that the board
have said, but there's a lot of gaps, which is why the unions are all getting quite angry. If you've
seen over in Germany, there's been lots of protests from Volkswagen workers because
they expect the numbers could be as high as 100,000 jobs lost. And some sources have said
that Bloom, who's the CEO, is considering shutting four factories, which is, I'm not,
I'm not going to try and say them because I won't be able to do it. I could do Hanover,
that's about it. My German is not very good. But also things that are obviously going to massively
affect dealers here, smaller number of Volkswagen cars to sell. They're talking about just focusing
on the most attractive segments, but also things like massively cutting the equipment options,
reducing them up by up to 75%. I can't really quantify what that means. This isn't just Volkswagen,
this is also Audi and Porsche. And this sort of, this follows on from them already saying
they were going to cut stuff. They've now said that's not severe enough. They've really suffered
against Chinese car makers, selling cars in China, tariffs to the US have really, really hit them
hard. So, yeah, big, big changes. Yeah, huge, huge changes. And yeah, I've been following this
story. It sort of broke last week while I was away. And I remember reading it then that when
they said they were going to cut 100,000 people from the stuff, which I think is about fifth of
their workforce, it's a huge, huge amount of people. But, you know, if you look at it, you take
a step back and look what's happened just here in the UK. And I mean, around the world, but just
here in the UK, the Chinese brands that have come in have stolen huge amounts of market share. And
that's painful. You know, it's going to hurt. And I talked to dealers who represent Volkswagen
and Audi brands, and they've not had the best of times the last few years, it's been very,
very difficult. And Audi used to be the jewel in the crown for a lot of dealers who represented
various brands. They loved Audi. And I think that they're losing, they're losing the profitability
that they had in the past. So that's going to hurt. And I think they had to make some changes.
I don't think this will be the last manufacturer we see take drastic action
like this. Obviously, Volkswagen Group is a big group. So when they have to make changes,
they are on a larger scale than others. But these announcements that they've made are severe.
The interesting one that really piqued my interest was the fact that they're talking about reducing
their model line up by 50%. I mean, that's, that's a lot of cars. That's a lot of models
that might disappear. But if you look at the number of cars that Audi sell, and all of the
different variants that they have, and Volkswagen too, there probably is them running those lineups
for a little bit more efficiency, isn't there? Huge news, this huge news. Sam, what's it like
over there in the States for Volkswagen? Well, without speaking specifically to Volkswagen
themselves, I think they're under challenge here in the US, the brand sits behind a number of other
players in the market. Porsche has had lots of questions about where their product development
is going and where they are. But talking in more general terms, the tariff situation,
I'm not a big fan, I'm not going to get political here. I hope we find partnership between our
countries that should be the way it should be from an open market perspective. What I'm finding so
interesting, I'm sure we'll get into other stories on the Chinese brands, even the announcement just
today that the Senate will be taking up, I think it's July 18th, a pathway to prevent the Chinese
manufacturers from getting into our market. Like I'm a free market capitalist. I want a way to
protect the dealer community. I want to ensure that we get the right value or our share of what
those revenues should be in any country. But I think you're seeing and you hear this from Ford,
even like we're scared of where the Chinese manufacturers are and how much more efficient
they are and how well like their products are. So for Volkswagen that doesn't have the same
capitalization structure that a GM or Ford is and Ford and GM are worried about that,
we've got to think that this is a more widespread activity in the market. And I hope those manufacturers
can find a more efficient way. Just like we did using AI, you've got to get out there in the
market and figure out how do you change your products. And we talk about it as transformation,
things that used to be done by people this way. You don't have to eliminate jobs,
but change what they're doing for more value. I hope the manufacturers find their way there,
because there are products coming from other countries that are going to be very well liked
by consumers and much better price point for them. So how do we partner to do that rather than put
tariffs up and stop people from coming in? I want to move on to the Chinese cars in the moment,
because that is going to be my first story. But it was a question I wanted to ask at the start,
but we didn't really get onto it. But what's the general take in the US and the tariffs? Because
over here, it's been around the world, it's been huge news. But it obviously impacts you too,
on the consumer side, because those cars are more expensive.
It's a terrifically fair question. I'm not sure there's a single answer in the US,
certainly from a political perspective. We're a completely mixed country. I don't think it's
great right now that we're so distracted on two sides and completely not coming together to figure
things out. But from a consumer perspective, the OEMs have said, we're not going to pass on the
tariffs to our consumers. And I think most dealers would say, when you look at new car pricing as high
as it is in the US, adding more onto that will just make a product completely out of the range of
the average consumer. So I think the typical OEM is not passing on that economics to the consumer.
At some point, it's going to be. And that will affect our market because consumers will not be
able to afford the opportunity to buy a car and get somewhere in that economics. Right now, the
pain I think is being felt most by the OEMs. And the question is, how do I produce more efficiently
and then get the product to market at a reasonable price so that we can have some profitability to
our business? But I think that the industry right now is looking at it saying, gosh, we don't think
the tariffs have been great for our market and we hope something will be resolved. And certainly
I do, as we think about Europe and the US, let's find a way to free trade partner more than use
the tariffs as part of the process. Interesting stuff. Let me move us on onto something that's
related. As I mentioned, I'm going to pick a Chinese car story. There are quite a lot, isn't
there? I'm going to try and wrap up a few. Let me just start with the fact that this week,
we've been driving several Chinese vehicles and it's been a while since I got behind the
wheel of Chinese car. One of them was a Cherry Tigo 9, which I must say I was incredibly impressed
with. Rebecca, you're looking slightly concerned. No, I'm sure I told you my 10-minute experience
with it, but you were very, very bad. But I don't really think I can judge the whole experience on
me getting in it and not being able to find the handbrake because there isn't one. You have to
put your seatbelt on. Can you imagine being a dealer? You'd have to have them all plugged in
all the time. Yeah, because it won't move if you haven't got your seatbelt on. Am I being blind?
There must be a handbrake somewhere. I could see the handbrake was on. I couldn't move the car
and they'd left it like in the middle of the road by our house. I was just thinking like,
what am I going to do? He knows the answer to everything. But yes, I've been very impressed
with that. It's just got me thinking this week a lot more about Chinese cars, especially
considering the news earlier this week. The Skywell dealers have been left in limbo,
according to our news story, after the importer Innovation Automotive has ceased trading.
This is Skywell is one of the many brands that have entered the UK. They had appointed 16
dealers across England and Wales during last year and this. They've blamed the need for huge
investments in order to compete in the UK market, which they are saying has now become too crowded
for their reason to step away. This obviously have left many questions for those Skywell dealers.
I mean, the Skywell cars, I think it's fair to say, haven't had the best reviews. I think
James Baxler of this podcast said it was probably one of the worst cars he's ever driven.
Oh, really? I had to go to the pictures and thought this doesn't really, it looks
sort of like a Mitsubishi that's gone wrong 10 years ago.
No, let's part that. Let's part what the car was like. I mean, it's the fact that this
brand is the first Chinese brand that has stepped away. I had a little look off the back of this
and started to have a thing. If I was going to ever back a Chinese brand, if I was going to take
a franchise on, who would I want to back here in the UK? If you look at the June market figures,
which I did, the new car sales figures. I mean, BYD alone, they secured 3% of the UK market.
You know, considering they weren't here a couple of years back, they sold 6,200 cars,
there are their abouts in June. That was more than Coupre, Dacia, Honda, Land Rover, Mazda,
and Mini, not combined, but individually, all of those very well-known legacy brands,
hate to use the term, BYD has sold more than them. JQ wasn't far behind. This is a brand that wasn't
even here in January, only launched January last year. They're just 18 months old, a mere toddler
of the UK car market, and still they're managed to outsell Citroen in June by nearly three times.
You know, these Chinese car brands are doing incredibly well, but there are some that are not.
You know, X-Beng, for example, they managed just 245 new car sales in June. Skywell,
that brand I've just been talking about, sold 64. GWM managed just seven units,
and Maxis sold just two new cars in June. So it's not great news for everybody, is it?
And so, you know, going back to my point, who would I back? Well, I think those are motor JQ
brands are very, very impressive. I'm not quite so sure about BYD myself. I think they've got some
great cars, but I think if I was going to be back in one, especially in this local area,
it probably would be cherry. I was very, very impressed with that TIG-09. It was a great car
to drive, a seven-seater, felt nice inside, good technology, and I thought, for the price
point, I think it was around £40,000 for a premium seven-seater. It was a huge amount of cars. So
it's fascinating what's happening here, isn't it? I think with this Skywell brand disappearing,
they're probably not going to be the last, not all of them are going to survive, but yet
more brands are arriving every single week. So yeah, fascinating. And Sam, with you on the podcast,
it's just interesting to get your take on this, because in here in the UK, Chinese car brands
and what they're doing to the market is a huge story for everybody, and they've managed to do it
by coming in and being incredibly affordable compared to those legacy brands. And when we had
a similar problem that you had in the States, when customers were going back to change their
Honda or their Ford, those price points for their monthly payments were £200 a month more,
and they were looking around for an alternative, and the Chinese car brands were that. Surely that
needs to happen in the States. You've got it. I mean, negative equity is the biggest issue right
now for consumers with what they own and what they want to get into. I wish I could say we knew
what was going on. We are prevented in this country from test driving, seeing any of those vehicles,
because the market in particular, the legislation and the legislators who came from auto industry,
I think you know who some of those are in the US, want to prevent the Chinese vehicles from coming
in. Your point is a great one. It's not only a economic car, a well-built car, like it's a car
that the regular consumer can afford. We've talked about our new car pricing in the US,
$50,000 is the average price point for a new car. You just can't afford it. So the hope is,
you've got an affordable vehicle. Again, I'm a free markets guy, find a way to, you know,
balance that and get those vehicles in. We have something fairly similar. The Polestar business
was required out of the US. We've got a partnership with the OEM and, you know, their ability to sell
the vehicles. We're sort of saying, what's going on? What are the next steps? I saw that, Sam. Tell
me what happened there, because, you know, what's the reports in the States on this? Because stuff
that we've picked up is a bit patchy. Yeah, and I'm not sure I've got the details enough. I can
tell you from the partnership we have with Polestar, their thought is, well, this is, you know, a
demand for us not to be selling in the US, you know, a great electric vehicle. Again, it's not
at high volume, as you've said, versus the others. But their thought is, we're continuing on, keep
getting us the leads. We can keep selling for now. But the plan is, the market is being asked,
that we leave the market. And so I just, I think today's world in the US is so upside down, because
we go with these quick legislations that we say, this will protect us, it will protect the workers,
it will protect the dealer community. And I think instead, if we got a little bit more free market
capitalized, we think about the Chinese brands and those players not saying we can regulate
in or out, let's do what the consumer wants and make it work.
Is that Polestar decision, because they're Chinese, because they're Chinese only, is that what it's
about? I think that's what's behind it. And I think this legislation, and you'll read it today,
I think the Car Dealer Magazine just looked at it quickly this morning, is more legislation being
proposed for all Chinese brands to be regulated out. And that's a July 18th Senate conference. So
I think you'll be hearing something about more of that. I think that's what it is. Again, it's a,
these are products that are, there are consumers, what we found at Car Gerus, will sell to the
smallest independent dealer up to the largest retailers in the market. And they're selling
all different products. You're trying to meet, as I said earlier, with our founding at Car Gerus,
you've got to be available universally to every kind of consumer. If they want the lower price
vehicle with an electric vehicle that's built wealth in those markets, we should find a way
to serve those consumers. That's what I think. Because in the States, you've got a huge manufacturing
base and you've got some very strong homegrown manufacturers who are, who still employ huge
amounts of people. They've got a lot of sway with the government, would I be right in saying that?
You got it. The two senators bringing the, and again, I respect that. We do want to help our
workers for sure. That's the most important part of our economy. But the two senators are
bringing that forward are from Michigan and Ohio, where we build most of our cars. So that's
probably where most of that push is. Interesting stuff. Right, Rebecca, move us on. Well,
I was just going to add, because I hadn't read this in the story originally, but that's,
it just mentions as well that Skywell, because obviously it's separate from the distributor
that they had, they are actually looking for a replacement UK distributors, they might come
back. And it's always interesting that all the remaining new car stock has been sold to V12
sports and classics, including all of their press and demo fleet. So I just think that's
a used car dealer. Yeah, It's quite interesting, isn't it, that they're going
to end up, I don't know how much stock that is, if this volume is quite low, but it'd be interesting
to find out how that actually goes. I like that. A bit of entrepreneurship from V12 sports and
classics to snap it up. Lovely. Great stuff. It'd be interesting to have some
slightly different Chinese cars, or new, but a used car dealer in the market.
I was also going to talk about Chinese car thing, and I've just put in my notes,
let's talk about Denza, because I was in the news this morning that,
this is the first time we've seen the price. Yes. Yeah, because obviously there was the big
Denza reveal, wasn't there, that you wrote about in your sub-stack that I'm sure you've
mentioned on the podcast before, but Denza is the premium side to BYUD, which I was
slightly surprised that you didn't choose BYUD as the one that you would go for.
But they've properly unveiled their Z Supercar at Goodwood. I was looking at this the other day,
because on their website, they're like, I can't remember what they call them now,
they're a person who's representing them as Daniel Craig, and I just thought Daniel Craig
driving this Chinese supercar was just slightly bizarre. He should only be an Aston Martin.
Yeah, but the price is £172,900. I was talking to someone about this yesterday,
they said, oh, they rang me up and said, wouldn't you believe it, you wouldn't believe it,
there's a Chinese car up for sale at the moment, £70,000. I said, well, just hold your beer for
one moment. I can raise you on that. I've just seen the prices of the new Denza. That is ambitious.
And to be fair, that is the racing one. They do start from £142,900 for the Z Coupe, but
I mean, I don't want to be mean about them, but I'll or about MG, but I can't imagine it's going
to be more impressive than a Cybster. How do you say it? Well, it is. I mean, well, I'm not saying
it is very fast. What I was trying to say is $1,582 brake horsepower. I mean, that's quite a lot
of brake horsepower. The racing model will do 0-60 in 1.96 seconds. Do you think people will
actually want to buy it, though, for that? No, absolutely. I absolutely don't think anybody's
going to buy it. I mean, I don't think anybody wants a performance Chinese car. I think what
people want is a cheap and affordable and nice, luxurious mid of the middle of the range Chinese
car. I think if they're kidding, I think if they're kidding themselves that someone's going to spend
£172,000 on an electric sports car from China. I don't think so. We'll see, because when you think
about the volumes that like a Pagani or whatever, obviously that's a lot more expensive, but people
do buy them for the fact that they are the fastest thing. I mean, it's that hero thing.
So I wonder if there will be some people out there and it will be interesting from the point of
view of we have talked about it so much, but the Jaguar electric car that we all go like,
who really wants to buy that? But I'm sure there will be some people who do want to buy that,
even though it's completely not like anything else. Jaguar and electric and all this sort of stuff
and sometimes pink. I don't know, which is such a weird market at the moment.
I mean, there certainly will be people who want to buy it and those people will be fools,
because they will lose huge amounts of money. I just want to say one thing to you.
Port taken. It's not gone well, is it? So that's a brand with a lot of rich history.
I think a new one coming into the UK, trying to get £170,000 for a desert.
What I predict is you'll see them on the Motability Scheme very soon.
I was going to say, good news, people who are interested six months from now,
you will be able to buy them from V12 Sports and Classics.
We've been a little bit mean there.
No, no, I think that's great. And I think you hit the main point. Affordability,
good car is where the mass market wants to be. We have a piston heads business that, you know,
is just an incredible following for premium vehicles. And they have an auction business.
We sold in AC Cobra last week for £117,000. I think that those sites would be great second-hand
selling capabilities for those who find, ooh, this isn't exactly what I wanted.
But I think you're right, James, I think premium sports car, EV from China and other places,
probably not the main market they want to go for. Ferrari has the main, Ferrari too.
I mean, there are a lot of questions about where they're going from an EV perspective.
So I'm with you on that.
It's a tough sell. But then some people over here buy Corvettes,
there's a market for it.
But sorry, no, that was mean again. Let me just let me just move on to my last story.
And this I just like to pick something I wrote about in my sub stack.
So this is my weekly newsletter that goes out on a Friday. And I've just talked about
the latest auto trader customer advisory group that took place this week. I've heard from a few
models who were there about what happened at that meeting. I mean, the first one,
it's fair to be said that there was a lot of feedback given to auto trader. They've set these
up off the back of that controversy surrounding Deal Builder and some of the other things that
have happened this year. They said that they're listening to their customers and those dealers
that went along to them, they've got franchised and used car dealers. They said that it was positive
to be listened to. But what they really wanted to see is some action. And now they've had this
second meeting where auto trader has presented a few of their ideas. One of them, which is most
controversial has been over the years of the price flags that have displayed on on adverts. And
on auto trader, it works with you get two green colours for great and good. I mean, there's a
lower price, which is silver. But as it goes up to fair price, so as the cars increased in price,
it goes yellow. And then when it's listed as a higher price or what auto trader thinks it's a
higher price, it goes red. And I don't think dealers have got too much. I don't think they're too
bothered about the price flags per se. I think it's part and parcel of the market. Now are these
indicators of what a car is worth. And this happens on many sites, you know, car gurus including.
But what they don't like is the colours. And I think what I found quite interesting is that
actually what was presented to these dealers is is a change of those that sort of traffic light
colour system to something a little bit more pastel based is how it was described to me,
sort of pastel colours that maybe toned it down a little bit. I mean, they would still give this
information to the consumers saying it was a good, great, fair, higher price, but that these
traffic light systems where red is a warning us maybe maybe going to be taken away. Now,
we don't know what's going to happen. This is just these were these ideas that were presented to
those dealers. But you know, as with anything on auto trader being a big platform here in the UK,
it is it's big news when when changes changes like that are talked about. So yeah, it'll be
interesting to see what happens. But also pick that story because I'm interested to get Sam's
take on it because you know, what what do you think about price flags? I mean, it's it's it was
one of the things actually when when you guys arrived, wasn't it that
yeah, caused a bit of controversy with the dealers back then.
Thanks for thanks for bringing that story. I hadn't seen that you're out ahead of me early
in the morning here in the US. And thanks for bringing it up, James and Rebecca thrilled to
tell that story. Yeah, I as I said earlier, there were dealers in the US that didn't want you walking
in their door when we created the original price instant market value. As I said earlier, you
know, I give all credit to you know, our founder Langley and how we built the business. If you
provide the transparency to consumers, you will win that side of the business, which makes more
of a difference for dealers like your business, you've got to provide the consumer who comes down
funnel. I hadn't heard about the flags. First of all, I'll start with, you know, dealer executive
counsel, we talked to dealers from 2015 when you told us to and we continued every year.
Our executive counsel constantly gives us feedback for where to take the business.
I don't think you should do that just because something went wrong. You should do it regularly
and keep it going. And that's why we've built those partnerships we have. What we think we do
differently and why I think there's a challenge and I applaud a competitor trying to follow our
approach to complete transparency on all ratings. Great, good, fair, overpriced is one you said
we've got to sell to every consumer. There are consumers who buy an overpriced vehicle or a
fair vehicle that there is a market for when I was buying my vehicles for my daughters who first
got old enough to drive. I wanted something that was it didn't matter if the price wasn't quite on
if it was safe and it may have been banged up a little bit at the rental, you know, fleet before
then that was okay with me. So there's a consumer for every one of those vehicles and we've found by
putting that full curve and then providing that in the sort listing so somebody can find the fair
and overpriced vehicle. We send leads for those and dealers close those vehicles. So I applaud the
thinking that for auto trader where today it's just great or good or only a percentage of their
vehicles have a rating on them, that's a challenge. I think that's a real challenge
because you're telling consumers we're not fully transparent, we're not giving you all of that
information. So it's the ratings, it's the sort order and it's providing the search capability
for a consumer to see everything. I'll add one more James because you said you want some of these
you know reports and I want to make sure you're using them. We have a report we created you know
a year ago or so in the UK following our US business which is next best deal rating. So what
we provide is the way for a dealer to say I'm in the fair category, how much do I have to lower
the price to get into good and we'll let you build that and then you can put that out to your
inventory provider and it should help you with all of your marketing not just on car gurus
but we also have a product that's called profit maximizer or maximize your outcome.
You can move in the fair category 300 pounds up on that vehicle, make more profit,
you're still going to get the search volume. So to me we built our whole business on this curve
of how vehicles are priced and we're going to find those consumers and help the dealers make
the most profit not race to the bottom by using those capabilities. I don't know about the colors
they're using we've always found that because that's part of our transparent process and we think
about now with Discover searchability of I found the car I'm looking for when I wasn't sure when I
walked in I'm using AI to get me there but now I see that rating the value of that vehicle
and what the deal rating is I'm more confident having gone through that process. So I applaud
I think it's interesting. I'm sorry to judge. Thanks. Sorry, I'm over speaking. It's like
slight lag because we're talking on the other side of the world. And I also talk too much so I
appreciate you cutting me out. I need that. My family says that to me all the time.
Oh no sorry, sorry if that came across as rude. I know what I wanted to say is just I think it's
what I find interesting with this is because it's so controversial, like because it's so
controversial with dealers even the mere talk of the fact that they're going to change the colors
are auto trader is enough to get dealers talking you know they are they are that kind of
head up about it I think in some areas of this of this market that it becomes a comes a real big
thing but I would say I mean I launched my business when price flags were well embedded in on all
platforms and we use it to our advantage we sell most of our cars at a fair price and we
say to the customers when they come in and they say well you know so and so platform says you're
at a fair price I say yeah it is a fair price because you're buying from a good dealer who's
going to look after you and most of the time people go no problems and they still sign on the dotted
line so I think you just need a little bit of confidence in the service service that you provide
James I couldn't be more proud that you do that that is that point of it's not a race to the bottom
what is the go back to our original founding what is the the best search result the best deal for
that consumer and a fair price deal why we created that originally it's fair you should be buying
that vehicle and our consumers do convert and submit the leads and say yes I want to buy that I
hope you can do to sell that because that helps you balance your margin against your overall
revenue stream terrific well done thank you I'm glad I've got my homework marked with an
with an A pass anyway we should probably park our stories Rebecca so Sam who do you think if you
can remember now had the best stories well that's a great question Rebecca you know I live in a home
with my wife and three daughters only one male other than me and that's our dog Gus so I would be
a fool as James said before to to pick the man in the group you're smarter than he is and you
and I have worked together for many years Rebecca you did some great interviews in the early days
your Denza story was my my favorite because I really do wonder if the Chinese brands can bring
these affordable you know great built products for the average person in the UK but also have
demand for a premium vehicle and speed car that comes EV from China I'm very interested to hear
that you'll have to keep me posted thank you yeah well I'm sorry James apologies that's fine no no
no problems I don't mind congratulations Rebecca it's a just reward for being on the podcast
two weeks ready thank you well it leads me on to my little outro just to say thank you so much
Sam for joining us all the way from the other side of the world and thank you James for being
a very good competitor today if you have enjoyed the show today then please do let us know by
leaving a review or leaving a rating it makes a massive difference to people being shown our podcast
elsewhere and it keeps John and I in a job so thank you so much to both of you it's been lovely to
see you and we'll be back again next week nice can I just say Sam lovely to see you thank
you for joining us from the States James thanks to you and Rebecca it's been such a great partnership
and we're really proud of 10 years in the UK thanks to your start you literally started us in the
market couldn't be more appreciative of the work that car dealer has done for us and and the work
that you've done and the partnership has been tremendous I'd also just say uh to our two countries
you know I'm based here in the US yesterday one story that really caught my attention I didn't
realize it the Royal Air Force flew by our office yesterday actually is a sign of partnership
it's our 250th anniversary of the founding of the country but the partnership is always there
I hope that message to your dealers and your community is we in America want to partner
Cargurus wants to be the player that continues to support your dealership community and I hope
that's a sign of both of our countries continuing to have that success over time it's a special
partnership and I hope that that compels down to how we work together as well
Sam feels like you and I should be sat in the oval office yeah just shaking hands at this point yeah
I wish I wish we did next time I come over for a pub pub night yeah in the Clovis collection
thanks so much to both of you I appreciate it thank you thank you guys and please join us again
next week for more stories
About this episode
Dealers in Gosport are seeing a surprisingly healthy market: imports (especially Japanese small automatics), Volkswagen Up/Polo sales, and plenty of Jimny demand, with part-exchange helping manage stock shortages. The host also shares a feel-good charity campaign where followers chose a local cause supporting elderly residents. Guest Sam Zales from CarGurus discusses the platform’s transparency-first approach—ranking listings by relevance rather than who pays most—and how that model is spreading in the UK/Canada. The conversation ties industry change to consumer expectations and dealer growth.
