We visit the world's biggest car auction, James drives an electric car and likes it, and Jony Ive's Ferrari collab – with Liam Quegan, episode 243

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Welcome back to The Candela Podcast, where we pick our favorite stories of the week and

ask an industry guest to choose which were the best.

I'm John Ray, and joining me this week from a very snowy Pennsylvania, where I also am,

is James Packetts.

James.

Hello, John.

How are you?

I'm very well.

We're still away.

We're doing our own private office down the hallway.

You are, aren't you?

You're in one of those offices you probably see like an insurance company in America.

It's very, very nice.

Very plush.

I know.

I've got like a wraparound desk, which means I can look over there, look over here.

Yes, lovely.

And if I move slightly out of the way, I can show the location that we're in, which is

actually Mannheim, Pennsylvania, in a Mannheim auction.

So this is the original.

It's like the OG Mannheim auction that we're in, isn't it?

Yeah.

It's amazing, isn't it?

So, yeah, we're still in America for those people getting there, so we're here for two

weeks now.

This is the last, well, last day of working, really, isn't it, before we fly back tomorrow

on Saturday.

But like, as you say, we're at the Mannheim auction, which is the world's largest auction,

depending on how you judge that.

They judge that on size.

It's 500 acres, which is absolutely massive.

We've been doing some videos this week, haven't we, for the YouTube channel.

This is the PA resistance, the one that we've really been looking forward to.

And yeah, so we've been here for two days yesterday, had a good look around it while

it was very quiet.

But today, in about 50 minutes' time, the auction hall's open, so yeah, we're looking

forward to seeing that, aren't we?

It's going to be, it's been mad looking around it, hasn't it?

Yeah, very much so.

I mean, partially because the, I'm going to quote you in the video, the scale of the

operation, but it is enormous, is really, really big.

It's sort of similar to the Japan one we went to, in that it just goes way beyond the horizon.

You can't really see all the stuff, even if you get the drone up, it still takes 20 minutes

for it to cross the car park, sort of thing, the amount of preconditioning.

Anyway, I'm going to spoil the video.

Well, yeah, we'll talk a little bit, but let's introduce our guests, because in some

weird sort of inception moment, we've got a very, very, very perfect guest today, so

we'll probably introduce him.

Yes, joining us this week, appropriately enough, is Managing Director of Wholesale

at Cox Automotive Europe, Liam Quig and Liam, thanks for joining us.

Well, thanks guys, really good to be here.

It feels a bit weird that you're in the Mannheim site and I'm sat at home, but I'm

incredibly grateful for you making the trip up to Pennsylvania.

I mean, that's a, you call it the OG, it is certainly one of our real epic site and to

put it in context, it employs more people on that single site than we employ in the

UK from Mannheim.

So it's an absolutely huge operation and fantastic view to see it and all of the lanes,

I think at least over 30 or so in operation, a mix of physical and online selling.

So, and then one of the things that you'll pick up, I think, or I hope you'll pick up

as you go through it, is just the pace at which they work.

It's seeing those optioneers, it's a real talent and they take it extremely seriously.

So, yeah, thanks for making the trip.

It was also, you know, I think we were all at NADA last week, so it's been a tour for you.

Yeah, exactly, you're at NADA as well.

Yeah, I actually saw you from a distance, but we never quite, we never quite, yeah.

It's also the best.

Yeah, well, you know, you look busy and, you know, there's a lot of Cox Automotive stuff

going on at that convention.

So, yeah, it's always a pleasure.

Yeah, I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on that.

And, but I mean, while we're on the topic of this, have you been out here before?

Have you seen?

I have not been to Pennsylvania.

I have been to a number of RUS sites and what you always feel you mentioned it already is

the scale with which they operate, but also just how evolved they are in terms of the

physical auctioneering capability that they've got.

I was in Phoenix in April last year when I was actually at the World Auctioneer Championships,

which is a thing that happens annually over there and seeing how seriously skilled their

auctioneers are and you know, it is a different experience.

It's much more of a, you know, we think of our auctions as an event and they are.

We bring as much energy as we can.

These guys really take it, you know, to the next level with things like you won't see

them today, but things like Ring Men and a whole different kind of feel to it in a lot of ways.

So, yeah, it's one of those auctions I'd really love to get to just to see the scale of it.

It's an absolutely epic undertaking.

And I don't know if you've met the general manager yet, but she is, Emily Decker is fantastic.

So yeah, she was actually used to run Phoenix.

She gave us a bit of a tour yesterday and I showed us around it and it's just here

in some of the numbers that got 20,000 cars in sight here at the moment.

Yeah, I think in today's auction, there'll be five or six thousand cars being sold.

And as you say, it's 37 lanes are running.

I think it's either 13 or nine of them are running physical, but the rest of them,

there are auctioneers in those and they're working on the online simulcast system selling cars.

So they're all 37 lanes, it's incredible.

And just to put it in context of scale, and I probably shouldn't mention the actual figure,

but with the recent snow, which is still affecting a large number of our auction sites in the US,

the cleanup operation, just the cleanup operation of the snow,

cost us in excess of seven figures.

So these are big operations that take a lot of running and a lot of looking after,

but they are massively impressive.

And yeah, we learn a lot from the way that they approach it.

It's kind of comforting to be part of a business that size at times.

Yeah, I didn't realise stupidly until I actually got here that there was a town called Manhoff.

That's where it came from, yeah.

Yeah, I should probably have done a little bit more research there, Liam, but unfortunately I didn't.

You're there to learn.

Yeah, indeed I am.

So let's touch on NADA.

I've written about it today.

Sure.

I thought this year what really struck me was the fact that the US dealers and the panel sessions

I went to didn't feel as future looking forward thinking as I thought they would.

I felt that, and I took this as a positive because it felt to me that the UK are actually

on a par and in some cases far exceed their US cousins.

Did you get a similar feeling?

I mean, look, I've been to NADA probably my eighth visit and I thought those,

I think it kind of, yes and no is my short answer to that.

I think where the US and obviously I've exposure to the US market through our business as well.

So I think where they are really strong is in their management of data, the management of

lead management and a lot of stuff in the sales arena, they're really, really good at.

And you'll have seen as I did, AI is plastered everywhere across NADA.

What I didn't pick up personally was how much of that AI is translating into

realizable kind of products and benefits at this stage.

I think it's still quite early in the life cycle of that.

And Cox has a big presence in there at that convention and there's certain things that

we are definitely doing that will lead to great customer outcomes.

But more generally, I wandered around both the big first, the West Hall and the North Hall.

And I saw AI everywhere.

I didn't necessarily pick up on exactly what that was leading to.

I think the aware, I think the UK is definitely ahead is sort of defined by a couple of things.

I think we're much further ahead than our US cousins on electrification.

And you didn't see much about electrification at NADA.

And I think there's a couple of macroeconomic reasons for that with the way that the US

think, is it not as far evolved generally in terms of electrification?

And I think we also, because we're a smaller market, we need to be more nimble.

And I think at times a little bit more innovative with you being at Mannheim today.

I certainly wouldn't say in any way they're complacent, but they've got so much scale

that actually they can afford to compete on bigger things whilst we've got to be really

kind of competing with our competition and dealing with our customers in different ways,

because otherwise we'd kind of lose traction.

So I think it's sort of ebbs and flows.

I'd be interested to know what you saw as where we were ahead.

In terms of where I think we were ahead, I actually think on the AI adoption,

from what I've heard, a number of dealers, I mean, just rewinding the clock to Cardio Live last year,

we heard from Michael Bell from Available Car, who had implemented AI into his business early on.

It was answering thousands of leads. It was working hard for him and was successful.

I mean, he gave a really fascinating speech at last year's event talking about that.

And I didn't hear similar sorts of experiences in the sessions over here.

It felt like AI was a new word. It was a new thing for a lot of people.

And actually, they were kind of like, oh, yeah.

I mean, one of the pieces of advice we mentioned on the podcast last week was like,

make sure your staff are using ChatGPT.

Well, the UK dealers, I know, are well ahead of that.

They've tried ChatGPT. They've tried AI to improve their images.

There was a lot that technologically, I think the Brits feel a little bit more advanced.

I don't know. Do you think the same thing?

Well, I mean, we are using AI in similar sort of things to what you're talking about.

And actually, we know Michael pretty well.

And I think you talk to James Lease when you're over there.

So ex-colleague of mine and his business, the business he's leading is very much on the

forefront of that. I think it's fair.

I think, well, what I saw in NADA was it plastered everywhere.

What I'm seeing now in our world is we're using it.

A good example is imagery. We have imagery solutions that are doing smart things in there.

So for example, we're dropping in backgrounds to our imagery that's AI led and much crisper

than they were in the previous iterations and so on.

So it's probably fair. I think, I mean, I look at Cox Automotive itself and

we're investing a lot in the states around this technology.

Where exactly that plays out over time, we will see.

So I think it's probably less of a, are they kind of behind?

I think it's more, I'm not quite sure they know exactly where they're going to use it

yet in various spots. But I can tell you from our side, it's a big topic in our organization,

both here and across the pond.

I just, the other thing I always think about with the U.S. versus ourselves is

that when I look at the car park over there, and by car park, I mean the general universe

of vehicles that they've got over there, the MOT over here is much more lined, but it keeps

really relative quality on the roads. In the states, I think what you'll see,

you might see it at Mannheim today, but more generally is a differing quality of vehicle

and older vehicles on the road, more damage at times. And I think what we've got, I don't know,

I think in our world, we're dealing with in generally, on average, a slightly better quality

of vehicle, which means certain things have to be done better as well. So it's fascinating to

see the U.S. market versus the UK there. It's just so vast.

We've spent a lot of time looking around dealers this week. We're producing some videos on just

how the American dealers differ. And we've been into all manner of different brands

over the last few days. And it's just amazing to see how they treat car sales as a bit of an event.

It's theatre, isn't it? We walked into one, it had its own Starbucks, it had a subway.

There was hundreds of people sat in there on a Saturday afternoon,

all smiling, all enjoying the process and were happy to be there. And it didn't feel like a car

dealership to me. We saw that across the states. And you may have seen it. I don't know if it's

quite as obvious at the convention, but in the Cox village, so they call it the village,

this is a big area where we have a variety of different stands. They are very clearly selling

at the convention. So most British conventions, you go to these kind of things, you wander around,

you speak to people, but you don't feel like there's an overt sell. Whereas NADA, certainly for

Cox and for other businesses, our sales people are there to attract business, take business. We

monitor how much business we're taking. There's an expectation in an overall level of what we're

going to achieve. And I think that is just a more, it's cultural, right? It's much more about the

sales led culture that we operate in. We can be a bit reserved at the bridge, I think at times,

whereas those guys are quite open both sides. They accept they're going to be selling and also

people are receptive to being sold to. I think the only other thing I would say, and we're seeing

it much more in the UK than in the US, I suspect you didn't see any Chinese. Oh, you didn't go

into any Chinese? Well, there was a Chinese, there was a sort of Chinese by stealth stand

in the North Hall. Right. I think it was Faraday Future. Yes, it was. Right. Yeah. And

there was, I think they had some sort of, because I think Faraday Future is not officially a Chinese

brand. I mean, somebody listening will know more than me and tell me off by my understanding is

they're sort of not really playing on there from China very much. But there were some

quite obviously Chinese models like these big MPVs on that stand with like ridiculous racks and

seats that you know, that was the only thing we saw really. And they had some robots, didn't they?

Strangely. Yes, I saw the robots. I saw the humanoid robots as interesting as a dog.

Yeah, no dealerships. And we'll see whether that continues. But that's probably the other

difference is just that changing nature of the OEM mix in our market in Europe more generally than

the guys in the States. And I think that's both a good and bad thing. Like for us, it obviously means

competition and, you know, people having to vary the way they think about things. And so in the

US, it's, it create insulates them a little bit. But I also think there is a risk that

there's a sort of lack of innovation on that side of things as well. You know, there is a,

it is exciting to see what these Chinese manufacturers can produce at prices that they're

able to produce. And I think that, you know, we've seen many of our dealer customers adopting Chinese

OEMs are within their brand network. So they're within their dealer network. So yeah, I think

that's still still to be able to evolve across the pond. We'll see. Yeah, definitely. I mean,

it's something that everybody was asking us questions about. We had dinner last night and

we were discussing it with many of your colleagues just, you know, about how the Chinese manufacturers

have shaped the UK and how it's very different over here. One of the things you just mentioned

there about the sales, you know, you walk into these dealerships and I just think it's, you're

right. If you walk in, James, you arrive in your car in the car park. And there are salespeople

standing outside the dealer. I mean, this is in California. So it's nice. But you let every

single dealer, apart from the really large ones that we turned up at, have sold your anecdote.

But yeah, you literally, you turn up, you can barely get out of the car before someone is saying,

can I help you? When are you looking to purchase? Yeah. And very awkwardly, we have to say, we're

not really looking, we're just browsing. We're on holiday dealerships. Really sorry.

It was the guy who said, we used that standard line. Don't worry, we're just looking. And one guy

just came back immediately with the best line. He just went, that's all right. I'm just showing.

I love it.

I thought it was absolutely fantastic. It made me laugh. But just going back to NADA,

what was your standout? What was your highlight? What if you walked back to the business and said,

that's the thing that really interested me?

I thought there were two things that stood out. And one of them is just a bit,

feel a bit generic. The first one is just the fact how many Brits were there.

Like, I was surprised. And I actually saw you at an event at the Fontainebleau Hotel. That's

where I just saw you across the room from there. And that was pretty much a British-owned audience.

And there must have been 150 folks there. So the kind of commitment to getting across there,

seeing what's going on, but also the networking that was going on. That was probably my biggest

takeaway of all. I've been there a few times and at best you catch a couple of people.

But there was just such a big contingency of a variety of different people. We obviously had

yourselves. There were dealers over there. We took some dealer customers, some fleet companies over

there as well, and some suppliers. So I think probably my biggest takeaway is that we've got

to keep learning from these kind of events because others are doing it as well. So it was just,

I thought it was really pleasing and showed the health of the UK market that so many people

are preparing. Because it's not a cheap trip. Vegas is a lot more expensive than it used to be.

And just making that commitment was just great. And I thought, we need to keep doing more of that

because what we pick up and what we learn is we've got to bring insight.

I think the second thing I picked up, and this is probably just a bit more specialist,

given the nature of our business. There was quite a lot of inspection technology over there and

quite a lot of AI-led hardware looking at how best to detect damage, what imagery and all of that

side of things. And we're very interested in that sort of space as it gives us certain economies of

scale that we know we've got to get to. So actually, but personally, I picked up quite a lot of

stuff around the way people are thinking about combining imagery and inspection technologies.

It's a bit specialist to what we do, but it matters to lots of people in the automotive

industry. So that's something that we specifically have taken away as kind of

something to evolve on. But I think the biggest thing was just, it was great to see so many people

and reflects just, I think, the health of the market in the UK. I'm a natural optimist and I

think 2025 was strong, 2026 has started really well, certainly from our perspective.

And it was good to see people taking in information, networking, talking about

stuff that's going on and most people with a smile on their face. So it was good.

No, I agree with you. It was nice to see lots of familiar faces walking around. It was a little

bit strange, but I think the fact it was Las Vegas probably helped.

That certainly helps. It certainly helps.

Let's talk a little bit about the UK market then. We're mid-feb now. What have you seen?

For me, some of the dealers that I've spoken to said it's been strong, but not as strong as they

had hoped it was going to be. What have you seen? Well, look, our dealers have generally been pretty

positive and that's then played through into our business as well. As I said, 2025 felt like,

I think I was on this podcast a couple of years ago and I said it felt like we were

returning to normality. 2025 felt like genuinely at a year where you could predict with reasonable

confidence about the shape of the year and what was going to happen. And it was a good year for

us. I know that there are big challenges out there in terms of cost management and the OEMs

are under pressure, particularly legacy OEMs. But 2026 has started well. If I look at our,

I look at most of our metrics year on year and so, for example, vehicle prices that we're achieving

at auction are stronger now than they were in January in Feb 2025. Our volumes higher. Quality

of the vehicles have slightly improved as well. So we've seen slightly lower mileage, slightly

younger vehicles coming to market. So everything speaks of a market that's definitely

exited the pandemic years and is now actually fairly predictable, but pretty strong.

I think whether that's sustainable through the year, we're just going to have to see. But 2025,

it did sustain it. I mean, again, I look at sort of annual cycles. 2024 summer got quite hard.

We didn't really see that in 2025. We saw summer, June, May, June in particular, remain pretty good.

I'd sort of expect that to continue into 2026. So I'm in a position of, if I look at it from our

side, I think we're in good shape. The dealers I talk to are pretty optimistic. There is undoubtedly

cost challenges, but that is people are learning to adapt to that and think differently about how

they use their resources effectively. So, Todd, I do worry a little bit about,

you know, there's a number of businesses that have taken significant

impacts through EV depreciation, you know, in the fleet side and so on. How that affects

choices that they make yet to see too much reaction, but the electrification side of

things still seems like a big area of uncertainty. You know, kind of where we thought about

electrification initially was it was all about infrastructure and making sure you had the right

infrastructure. Now, I think it's about pricing and reacting to a more volatile pricing mix in

the EV space, probably more so than the ICE vehicles. So I think that's still got a long

journey to run. But look, I would say right now we've started 26 well and our clients seem to be

pretty buoyant. And I'm interested on your take when it comes to these Chinese cars,

entering the use car market. I mean, this is a next big disruption, isn't it, that these cheaper

cars that were a lot cheaper new, they're going to be cheaper used. What impact do you think

that's going to have across the market? I mean, I can't remember the exact number, but somebody

told me, actually, when we're in Vegas, roughly about 10% of new vehicle sales are from Chinese

manufactured vehicles. So clearly, that is going to start to really play through.

I think people are going to have to be on their toes in terms of pricing. We haven't seen a lot

come through yet. And so I'd be lying if we had a huge amount of knowledge as to what's going to

happen. But in the same way that electrification and electric vehicles have meant that people have

got to look at the way they price in our world in from a remarketing and that sort of auction

context, it is going to demand that remarketing managers are smart about how they price these

vehicles. But I don't know what the depreciation is going to be like. That's the other thing is

because they enter the market at cheaper level, I don't know whether we're going to see different

depreciation curves. I haven't had that. We haven't got enough of that data yet. So I think we're

just going to have to see what I do. I mean, we experienced it in the last half of 24, last

quarter of 24 in particular is whether or not the Chinese OEMs actually changed their headline

new car pricing a lot. We saw it with Tesla and that has an immediate

play through into the used car market and so on. So there's a degree of what strategy is

a new vehicle price is going to stay at over time as well. So in the overall scheme of things,

I think it's just about being nimble. I mean, a lot of our clients have got Chinese OEMs as

their dealer network and so they'll see Chinese vehicles returning both through those dealerships

and others. So we're going to have to watch. I mean, I guess my answer is we'll wait and see,

but I think people are going to have to be pretty nimble and careful about what they do.

Yeah, I agree with you because it's just something I think about quite a lot because when you look

at something like these are moders, these J-Cous, they're only a year old, a lot of them,

but they were knocked out at 25, 30,000 pounds. What are they going to be worth in three years

time? Like you're saying, none of us really know, but if they are considerably cheaper than the

equivalent Nissan Qashqai, Ford equivalent, I think it's going to impact those used car prices

quite significantly. I do think this is the next disruption that we need to watch out for

I agree. And I think it also creates an opportunity for for those who want it for

electric vehicles to be more accessible. Now, we know that a lot of retail customers are not as

interested in EVs as say the fleet side of things because of for a variety of reasons, frankly, but

I think the if people want accessible used EVs, these are going to be amongst the most attractive

because they can with really good build quality in terms of features that they've got,

they're going to be probably cheaper and and those kind of things. And actually,

you know, you talk about year old moders or the UIDs or whatever that these have got good ranges

on them, right? These have got good batteries in them. So there is a there is a really good

chance they ultimately help EV adoption. But again, to be determined as we go over the next

couple of years, I think. And you mentioned you're an optimist. What's what are your thoughts for

the rest of this year? I think 2026 for us will be better than 2025, which is already a pretty good

year. I think there's a couple of reasons for that. I think what we're going to see is we have a

large reconditioning business. And I think we'll see more leverage of that as we see the OEMs

bringing more volume into the market. So I'm excited about that. I think I think auctions

will stay strong. I think AI will let us where we use it judiciously will let us create more margin,

which is a good thing. And I think our clients will also do the same. And I also just think,

you know, we're pushing that 2 million new vehicle registration level. I think we'll

continue to see that steadily tick up, which is I mean, such a key indicator of the health of

the overall UK market. So I'm just generally not seeing signs that make me overly worry

about, you know, yes, there is a lot of doom and gloom that exists around the British economy,

but in reality, what, you know, that's been around for a long time, that doom and gloom.

Yeah, we continue to see automotive thriving, I think. So, you know, I think competition's good.

I think having these Chinese entrants actually creates competition that's

creates innovation. And, you know, so everywhere I look, I feel like, yes, there's tough conversations

to be had, but we're also generally as an, you know, I operate as a chair of the Nama,

so Nama, which is an auction to trade body. When I sit down with my colleagues on that,

generally the feel is this is quite resilient and therefore reasons to be cheerful, I think.

And what's next with your business? What's the very latest there?

I mean, what we're trying to do a number of things, so we continue to invest heavily in

digital auctioneering. So that will be work that we'll continue to do. I mentioned already

how we leverage AI in the inspection and image world is important to us, because we want to

create really good, you know, build our image capability that means that end users and our

clients can make good choices. And I think generally we're also looking really hard at

what happens in continental Europe as well. So we've got a deal that we're working on,

or a project that we're working on with a big OEM that will give us access into the European

markets different to what we have now. And hopefully, I mean, it's such a big market in its

own right and where we can leverage existing knowledge from the UK in that space is massively

exciting. So we're in a generally a pretty good spot. I would say the European market is somewhat

different to the UK. So you've got to be careful of where you tread. But there's huge amounts of

opportunity there as well. So watch this space. We're obviously in Mando and we're going to be

shortly going out and having a look at the auction halls and the buzz that there is. I love being

in an auction hall. I think it's just, there is something very, very special about a car

auction. You obviously run physical auctions in the UK. I mean, how important are those to you

in your business? I mean, they've been massive for us post the pandemic. Obviously, we went back in

21. It was quite a big decision to do that because we'd obviously spent a lot of time digitising

our auctions. I'm the same as you. I like the, well, slightly less so now than we used to have,

but the engine fumes, I like the, I like the energy that exists. I like the fact that you get a lot

of buyers together at the same time. So you can have conversations with them and understand what

really matters to them. I like the showmanship that our auctioneers bring. So it's a critical part

of our DNA. And I think, I think I've been asked a lot, you know, what's the plan in terms of,

you know, do we want to phase out physical auctions and so on? And I just don't see that happening

because I think it's a fundamental for certain vehicle types. It's critical. I mean, we've got a

big commercial vehicle market and big commercial vehicle marketplace, I should say. And like,

seeing buyers who are specialists in buying vans, you know, you see what they do when they're in

our auction halls and what they're looking for. Like, I can't see that we're going to want to

translate that into just a digital experience. I want it to be something where they can come and

enjoy a bit of the crack as it is and then buy product from us that they've kicked the tires of,

inspected themselves and feel comfortable with. So fundamental part of our DNA, we've got to be

very aware of the fact our digital tools need to continue to involve them, be better than,

continually get better. But yeah, from our perspective, physical auction is a big part of

what we do. Liam, thank you very much for joining us. Those people listening and listening and

watching on our YouTube channel will be able to see the video that we record today in the not too

distant future, Jon, but we should probably do some stories. Indeed, we should. And I'm rather

hoping as well that, because the auction starts in about 25 minutes, doesn't it, James? There's a

switch on the wall over there that says Lane Monitor. And I'm slightly worried that in about 20

minutes, suddenly an auctioneer is going to appear in the room through hidden speakers.

You never know. That'll be entertaining if it does. Like likely.

We'll be right back. Running a dealership means making hundreds of decisions every day,

but James, when do you get the time to step back and think?

Well, Jon, I don't. But this is exactly what Cardiola Live is for on March the 19th at the

British Motor Museum in Gaiden. The UK's Cardiola's manufacturers and suppliers will come together

to learn what's actually working right now. You'll hear from dealers who've built great businesses

and exclusive research from headline sponsors, Auto Trader, as well as Google, Motorway,

Cox Automotive, Keyloop and Impel. We'll be tackling the big questions like how buyers are

really using AI, what Chinese challenger brands mean for your forecourt and how the best dealers

are growing faster than anyone else. Maybe you'll actually learn something, James.

Bit rude, Jon, but you're probably right. Cardiola Live is sponsored by Auto Trader

and takes place on March the 19th at the British Motor Museum. Tickets are available now at

CardiolaLive.co.uk. Now, a quick word from one of our sponsors.

Jon, have you ever wondered why AI, along with 14,000 other dealers,

choose to partner with Auto Trader? Well, actually, I didn't think so. I'll tell you anyway,

with more than 84 million consumer visits every month, it connects us with more engaged car

buyers and delivers more deals than anyone else in the UK. And now, with the launch of buying

signals, we'll have brand new insights on every deal showing how likely a customer is to buy the

car they're interested in. Plus, as someone who set out to use AI and data as much as possible

in my business, I've found their technology, data and tools genuinely invaluable. But when I do get

stuck, which is, let's face it, most of the time, Auto Trader is always on hand and committed to

supporting us to get the very best from our package to find out how they can help you visit

trade.autotrader.co.uk. Now, back to the podcast.

So, James and I are going to run through our favourite stories of the week, and at the end,

Liam gets to decide which one of us chose the best ones and who is the winner. James won last week,

so off you go. Thank you, John. I would like to talk about, it's a slightly different one,

because it's not a story on our website, but I'd just like to talk a little bit about Rivian,

because the last week we have been driving a Rivian around California, which it's a brand that

doesn't come across in the UK as of yet, but might be doing so in the not too distant future.

But listeners of this podcast will know that I haven't been the biggest fan of electric cars,

but this one absolutely blew me away. I really, really enjoyed driving it. They build a truck

and an SUV over here. It was huge, wasn't it, John? I mean, it was a big, big vehicle. We had the

truck version. It had some really clever things on it. The self-driving function, we used a lot,

didn't we? That drive from LA to Vegas and back again was a long, straight road for about four

hours, but we used the self-driving mode. I mean, it was at one stage, I was driving,

and I think I used it for about nearly an hour without touching the steering wheel,

all the pedals. The only thing you have to do is touch the indicator when you want to overtake

someone. And then it does it for you, yeah. It was very clever, wasn't it? I mean, we obviously

don't have that functionality in the UK. So being able to experience it legally and actually

trying it was amazing. And I just think that brand is... I do hope it comes to the UK. They're talking

about doing it with a model called the R2 and the R3, so slightly small car, thinking about

bringing it in in 27. So in advance of that, it was nice to experience it, wasn't it? And we

met a lot of owners. We went to some of their experience centres. One of them was taking over

theatre on Laguna Beach right at the front, which literally was a movie cinema, wasn't it?

They had a couple of cars inside, but it felt very cool, didn't it? It was a cool place to

experience the brand. They had people in there working, overlooking the crashing waves on Laguna

Beach. It was an incredible place. Yeah, we've got a horrible trip, really, haven't we? Oh, yes.

There are other hearts, don't listen to this. But yes, it was special trying that brand.

The reason I'm picking it and the reason I wanted to talk about it is because it was so stark

that it worked so well. Okay, we've talked about electric cars over here in America. In California,

they're really well set up for it. I mean, one of the stops we made on that trip between Vegas and

California for charging was a Tesla. There was a sea of Tesla chargers. I mean, what did we count?

96? 100? 96 Tesla superchargers at one place. Yeah, one place. I wasn't busy either. There were

reading to that what you will. But the Rivian worked fantastically well when it came to charging.

And I think this is probably one of the reasons I liked it so much is in the UK I've always found

charging incredibly frustrating. You turn up a charger and it probably doesn't work. This, you

turned up a super fast charger. You plugged it in. The car knew that you were the account that it had

to be charged. It did it rapidly. We could get a full battery in what was it, half an hour?

Big batteries. It's 300 mile range on these cars. And it just works. And that's why I liked about

it the most. I haven't been, I haven't had an electric car experience in the UK where

I haven't been frustrated at one point. Whereas this Rivian experience, every single part of it,

I enjoyed. The car, the charging, the brand, the whole experience was enjoyable.

But the reason I picked it, John, is I wanted to ask you, do you think that's just because

we were doing it in California, an experience in California? And that's why we loved it so much.

Some of it, yes and no. But there were some things like, I suppose if you view it in the context of

Tesla, it's slightly less impressive Rivian, isn't it? Because the things that we were impressed

about, which are you turn up at the charge point and you plug it in. And as you say,

the two things talk to each other and you don't have to start getting an app out. You don't have

to get your credit card out. You don't have to do any of that stuff. It just talks to the car.

One of those charges was a Rivian network. So they have a very small number of charges themselves.

But the other ones were, I think they were Electrify America was the brand of charger,

which must be like our grid serve equivalent, usable by any random electric car that turns

up. And even that did the same thing. It talked to the car and I mean, like I said to you at the

time, I've been on launches in the last three years where manufacturers are proud to say, well,

yes, and the car will talk to the charger when that technology is available. And it just doesn't

happen in the UK. The Volvo I just had for the X30, I had this long term for a little while,

that was supposed to do it. Never, ever got it to work. So it was that seamless experience was

lovely. The fact that it, you know, there was no plugging it in. Oh, it's not works unplug it again,

all that stuff standing out in the rain in the UK. That's the stuff that's really irritating,

isn't it? So that was a big thing for me. But I think the other thing was getting in a new car

where everything actually works. And this is so we were in the R1 T as you say, which is pickup

truck, we were in the sort of like, it's like the facelifted version that they've done a lot of

work on. They've compared to when they came out in 2022, I think they've redone all the architecture

inside the car. And it's all spick and span and has one mile less cable in them before. And we're

sort of very boring information. But literally, there was nothing went wrong with it really,

that car at all. Like in the four days, I know it sounds like a very low mark, doesn't it? Nothing

went wrong with that brand new car that we had. But all the brand new cars we have, every single

one has had something go wrong in the UK from European manufacturers, Chinese manufacturers,

Japanese manufacturers. Cars just don't seem to be terribly well engineered anymore,

particularly in terms of software. And Rivian is a software company that has decided to make some

cars really, I suppose you say you have to look at it. So in that regard, it was very Tesla like,

and it was all very sensibly laid out on this touchscreen. It was just a really nice experience

to actually drive about in it and enjoy it. The one thing we discussed while we were there,

while we were in the car, whether it would work in the UK, because it's a very premium car. It's

expensive. I mean, they start at $70,000. The one we were in was $115,000. So they are expensive.

I mean, we're talking about the big ones. I think the ones they're talking about bringing to Europe

will be entry point around £40,000. But still, that's quite an expensive car when you compare it

to the Chinese rivals. And I just wonder whether that American call will translate across to the

UK. What do you think, Liam? Are you aware of Rivian? I mean, if you... I am. And Cox Automotive

were an early investor in the business. So in 2019, 2020, we invested $350 million in that

business. So absolutely, I've never driven one. But they are impressive looking vehicles. And

actually, when I was in Vegas, I was talking to a couple of people about it. And I actually think

one of those models is actually in the UK now, one of the smaller ones, as you say. So it's

pretty niche. But you might see a couple about. It's like anything, isn't it? Their pricing is

going to have to be right because you're up against competition, not just at the bottom end,

but also the top end. So these premium vehicles, you look at what's coming out from BMW, what's

coming out from... You mentioned Volvo, but like the X60, the X90, these are significant vehicles.

So I think you're entering a fairly crowded marketplace in the UK. So we're going to just

have to see. And no reason to not try it. But you look at how much... We'll keep

them back to it. Look at how much these Chinese guys are prepared to invest in terms of pushing

product. Is there that much space for niche OEMs? I don't know. But as I say, impressive

product and one that our business has committed to in the past. I didn't know that, but that's not

the reason I picked the story. But it might mean that's my favourite story. Well, that's hopefully.

Got to show some loyalty. It works for my favourite. That'd be great. But yeah, people listening to this

and watching this will be able to see the video on our YouTube channel all about Rivian and not

too distant future. So another plug there, John, over to you. Very good. This is becoming a very car

centric podcast as opposed to a dealer centric podcast. But I'm going to talk about Ferrari

because this has been another general big motoring story this week, which is that they've revealed

the interior for their new loose or looch age, I think you call it, if it's Italian. Loose, whatever.

Loose Ferrari. Yeah, loose Ferrari. But it's their first EV, which is slightly controversial in...

Oh, God, this is an EV heavy podcast as well. It's slightly controversial in Ferrari land,

really, to have a fully electric Ferrari because they did say once upon a time, did they not,

James, we will never make in a fully electric car. Well, they've changed their minds. But we've

not revealed, they've not revealed what the outside of this car looks like or any specs

or so on, but they have revealed the interior slightly strangely. They've flown lots of journalists

out to play around with this new interior, not us, sadly. But the reason they've done that is

because they've enlisted Johnny Ive of... Sir Johnny Ive. Sir Johnny Ive, sorry, sorry, Johnny,

of former Apple fame, you know, the guy who designed the iPhone and various other bits

of Apple tech, who's got his own design consultancy firm now. And this is the first...

Oh, suddenly the air conditioning stopped in here. Suddenly this is the first

car interior he's ever done. But of course, unsurprisingly, it looks very Apple-like,

doesn't it? Very rounded corners, very nice machined billet aluminium bits and pieces.

And it is a very interesting looking interior. I would... You've written very fondly about it in

your sub-stack, have you not, James? I was incredibly excited about this. I didn't...

I don't know whether I miss this news that he was designing this interior. Did you know about

this? I didn't even know about this. No, but they probably... It's just a surprise, I think, isn't it?

Nice surprise. Big fan of Sir Johnny Ive and his designs at Apple. I think he's an absolute legend.

So when I saw that it turned his attentions to this Ferrari EV, I was kind of even more interested.

I like Ferrari's brand. I've given you my thoughts on EVs. But yeah, when I saw the...

When I saw the two of them had combined for this and looks at the pictures, actually,

it's the video that people need to go out and hunt. They've done this beautiful video of the

interior in typical Apple style, like an Apple launch style, sweeping around this interior of

the car, showing all the beautiful bevels and the design he's done. I mean, it looks like there's

an iPad stuck to the car, not that I dislike it. But yeah, I think it's... The reason I found this

interesting is just the difference in opinion that I've seen on social media. I mean, some people

absolutely hate it. They were really, really against it. I saw some LinkedIn posts where

people were saying it's... It doesn't look anything like... The sort of thing you wouldn't put in a van

and I mean, a bit nasty to van. But yeah, there's some really, really angry people about it. And I

thought, well, no, I think this is beautiful. I think he's done a really, really nice job with it.

Be interested to see what the car looks like. Did you see it, Liam? I didn't. And it's... All I have

seen is the reaction. I know a few... I mean, it's way above my pay grade, but I know people who've

got very committed to the brand and have been collecting these vehicles for some time and

there is a very mixed opinion on the nature of it being an EV, as you say.

Proof all out, but you can't argue with who's designed the interior. Can you? I'm the same. I'm a

Big Apple advocate and he was iconic in terms of what he developed. So give him his due if he's

done something special here, then great. Proof all out on the vehicle itself. So watch this.

Do you reckon people will buy an EV Ferrari? I mean, I just think that I'm sure people will

want it, but I just wonder what it will be like. A re-sacrifice. So, you never know.

Yeah, be interested. Right, let me pick a story. I would like to go for a little bit of a chat

about Cardio Live. We've talked a lot about NADA and how we've learned lots of stuff

over here on this side of the pond and the not-too-distant future on March the 19th

will be holding our event, Cardio Live. And we've announced a couple of new speakers this week.

Our manufacturer panel is going to have Suzuki GB's director of automobile. It's David Cately.

He's going to be there. And at the end of the last week, we announced the Dacia UK brand director

Lino Rubiro is also going to be on that manufacturer panel. So we've got an amazing lineup now,

John, haven't we, for Cardio Live? There's some great speakers. Those two alone are going to

be brilliant on our manufacturer panel. But we've also managed to put together a Chinese

manufacturer panel, which I'm very excited about. I know Cox Automotive are going to be talking in

detail about Chinese brands during their session, which I'm interested to hear. But I'm also

interested to hear from these manufacturers themselves. We've got Geely, BYD, Cherry,

Moda and Jku all being represented on that panel. So it'd be interesting to hear from

them themselves about what they think they're going to be doing when it comes to disrupting

this market. I'm looking forward to putting questions to them because I haven't actually

personally spoken to many of these directors of these Chinese brands. So it'd be nice to hear

what they've got to say. But yeah, that event takes place on March the 19th at the British

Motor Museum. Tickets are available on the CardioLive.co.uk website. But we've got loads of

good stuff happening there, John. It's not actually not that far away. It's four weeks away.

No, it's terrifyingly close now. Yeah, terrifying for us because we've got lots to do before then

we're in the country at the moment. What are you looking forward to for that then?

I think I'm sort of with you on the Challenger brand one because I think we've cleverly

called it the Challenger brand session. But I think the challenges to all the other established

brands, but I also think looking at the new challenges to each other as well, aren't

they? Yeah, absolutely. What's Cherry doing that Geely isn't? Or what's BYD doing that

Cherry isn't or whatever? It's who to which horse to back at the moment, isn't it? And I know

the argument is somebody will fall out of the selection as time goes on as to who's

going to be here. But I'm beginning to think it won't be the Chinese manufacturers that will be

leaving the UK or the other ones. So yeah, very much looking forward to that one. The other one

is the social media masterclass. So we've got James McConville from Cerro Cars and Danny Bond

from DB Automotive, who are both kind of experts in the world of social media and selling cars on

social media, which is an interesting topic as well. I mean, you do lots of selling cars on

social media, don't you James? Complete accidentally most of the time? Well, I sort of try. I don't

do it very successfully. But these guys, I mean, Danny Bond has sold something like 3,000 cars

using meta platforms alone, which I think it's an amazing number. So it'd be interesting to hear

how he's actually done it. Because I think there's a lot of people out there at the moment looking

at different advertising opportunities, looking at different platforms, people are really focusing

on their marketing at the moment, all the dealer groups I mean, that's the main topic

everybody's talking about what's working, what new options are there for dealers. So it'll be

interesting to hear what they've got to say. Liam, are you looking forward to Cardinal Live,

anything in particular that brings to mind? I mean, look, just to build on what you were

saying there, actually, I think the social media side of things and the impact of, I know we've

used the phrase several times already, but the impact of AI in terms of how dealers are able to

reach their clients through whether it's ChatGPT or Gemini or whatever, I think that's going to be

fascinating as to the impact of that house. Over time, there are, you talk about legacy OEMs,

you've also got kind of established businesses that service dealers to help them reach their

clients. You've got your auto traders of this world and so on and just how the market's changing

around there is interesting with regards to socials and AI-led tools. So I think that's

interesting. I think it's always great to hear from the manufacturers and glad you got Suzuki there,

interesting OEM and then generally, I couldn't agree more, everyone's fascinated by the

Challenger OEMs. I think I kind of agree with John in terms of whether or not they will push

some existing OEMs out, but I also think not every Chinese OEM will make it over here either.

I think there will be winners and losers and a lot of it will come down to

effectively how committed they are to marketing, how committed they are to

capital injection to make sure that they push these things. It's like anything,

isn't it? If you spend a lot of money, you can make traction. Not everybody will be prepared to

and they'll be looking elsewhere whilst others are really concentrating. We're on the precipice

of lots of interesting stuff happening. I appreciate the fact that you do this event. It's always good.

Thank you. We're looking forward to it. A number of the conversations I've had with dealers and

suppliers over the last couple of weeks has been about this year. My take on 2026 is I genuinely

think in the 20-odd years I've been covering the automotive industry, I think this is the most

important year for change. When we look back at these 12 months and the difference, how different

the automotive industry will look, be that sales of Chinese brands, be that EVs, be that brands

that we've known and loved for years that may have disappeared. I think at the end of this year,

the market is going to look very different. I think we're at a very critical point for

the automotive industry at the moment. I think it's fascinating to talk about and cover like we

do on Cardin. Good to be part of, though, isn't it? Yes, certainly not boring. Right,

John, you might have time for wedging one more in. I'm actually going to end this a bit early,

I think, because we've got an auction to get to, James. I happen to have this very handy

mouse map that has the plan of the auction, so you can see how enormous it is and how we've

got a lot to cover. What I'll ask first is, Liam, are there any stories you think we should have

talked about this week, but we haven't? Probably quite a few. I think the only one that I picked

up on, which is more about where you are now than where we are, is the recent Trump change to the

legislation. I think that's just come out in the last day or so about what I think is about the

Clean Air Act. I would call it Clean Air Act, but it's not called that.

But just whether or not that has repercussions for EV choices that are being made by the

manufacturers. There is also just more generally, I think the other one was the Stellantis

impact in terms of their EV write down and so on, which it just shows the fragility in some

ways of the electrification strategy at the OEM level. I don't know how this all plays out.

For me, it just shows that there is lots of uncertainty. I'm not close enough to the OEMs

to say what's going on in their boardrooms there, but they must be thinking really hard about

what their EV strategy is long term on a global level and also within individual markets.

That was quite stark. Yeah, that's Stellantis news I was reading over the weekend, last weekend.

That was a big change that they've made, wasn't it? I think the big line from that that I really took

home was they're going to now sell cars by what? Demand not command, well there were.

Demand not command. I mean, that sounds like the sort of thing you see on the front of one of

those lecterns when Boris Johnson stood up, isn't it? That was a great catchphrase that somebody

agency has been paid a lot of money to come up with. But I did just think that was slightly

slightly nonsensical, because actually it's a bit like saying we're going to ignore the law,

like that they will have to follow the command. Unfortunately, whether they like it or not,

they can lobby all they like. I'm sure they are doing that in America, at all automakers do.

But what was the write down? It was something like billions, wasn't it? 20 billion or something?

Impact on share price and so on. So it's, yeah, but they'll no doubt be coming up with something

different to do and so on. So it's a, but it just shows there is still uncertainty through a lot of

ROEM, you know, kind of partners in terms of exactly where they go long term. I will say as

well. I mean, having started off in Vegas and California, we saw, I don't know, it's pretty

one in 20 cars, maybe one in 30 or EVs. It felt quite, it felt less than the UK, but not completely

dissimilar. You saw Tesla's, you saw Mustang Mackeys and lots of other stuff, a couple of

Rivians and so on, lots of BMW EVs as well. Coming over here, I mean, I'm looking out at

20,000 cars, I'm struggling. We saw one Tesla, I think, did we, in the Man Time Stock yesterday,

walking round. That's a Simon truck, which I was very excited about. Oh, and a Simon, two Teslas,

two Teslas in the 20 cars. But it's on this side of the States, away from California with its

mandates about EVs, it just, they're not getting any traction at all. I haven't seen the charging

point yet, John, in the time we've been in Pennsylvania. No, no, although we are an Amish

country, so we have seen, we've seen more like wagons, covered wagons than drawn by horses

than EVs here. Anyway, sorry, Liam. So I'm going to have to ask you, which was your favorite story

of the ones that we did actually get around to? Okay, well, it was picking from three. I'll flutter

you guys here, because you've been generous enough to have us on the pod out there. The

we support it. Let's go for that. Rivian is great. It's a great story from a Cox Automotive side

of things. Ferrari, time will tell. But you do a great job for us as an industry. So I appreciate

that. That is very, very kind of you to say, thank you, Liam. I will chalk that up as a win, John.

Well, he also, I was two versus one in terms of choices. It wasn't a fair fight.

Well, very rarely is a fair fight. Well, all that's left me to say is thank you to Liam for

joining us today. I mean, this has been a slightly strange, flipped location, hasn't it? But it's

been lovely to join you remotely from Mannheim in Mannheim. And thank you as well to James for

whatever really. And thank you for listening. We'll be back next week with another episode. So

make sure you subscribe, take me notified when that goes live. If you want to check out the

stories you mentioned today, take a look in the show notes below or head to cardiomagazine.co.uk.

Thanks for listening and goodbye.

We visit the world's biggest car auction, James drives an electric car and likes it, and Jony Ive's Ferrari collab – with Liam Quegan, episode 243

About this episode

Faraday Future

Nissan Qashqai

electric vehicles

Dodge Challenger

Rivian

electric cars

self-driving mode

indicator

Tesla

supercharger

Dodge Charger

charging station

Electrify America

Volvo XC40

Cox Automotive

Suzuki X90

Ferrari

EV

fully electric car

Apple

Geely

BYD

Cherry

Clean Air Act

Stellantis

EVs

Ford Mustang

BMW

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