Damon Hill and Johnny Herbert dive into the upcoming 2026 Formula 1 season, discussing the impact of new technical regulations, including major changes to hybrid power units and aerodynamics. They analyze the evolving dynamics within McLaren, particularly the rivalry and growth of Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri. The hosts also explore team strategies, driver development, and the challenges engineers face adapting to the new rules. Predictions about potential championship contenders and the influence of new teams like Cadillac add depth to their insightful conversation.
Damon Hill and Johnny Herbert are back for the first 2026 episode of their F1 podcast, Stay On Track! They discuss the impact winning the F1 world title will have on Lando Norris (and his McLaren team-mate Oscar Piastri), and share their view on the mindset Isack Hadjar needs to have going into Red Bull Racing alongside Max Verstappen.
They also weigh up which team will get the new regulations right, and who might get them wrong, and what impact multiple exits will have on Red Bull. There's also talk of Lewis Hamilton's pivotal second Ferrari season, plus Hill and Herbert make their champion predictions for 2026...
Want to listen ad-free? Join The Race Members' Club on Patreon today - we even have an 'F1-only' tier!
"That was using the turbo to charge the battery. That's not there, but the turbo is still there."
A turbo is like a fan that pushes more air into the engine to make the car go faster and have more power.
A turbo, or turbocharger, is a device that forces extra air into an engine's combustion chamber to increase power output by using exhaust gases to spin a turbine.
"And yeah, but the battery's got massive. So it's producing 50% of the horsepower. But I know a lot of the problems that they've been having is the depletion of the battery during the running."
The battery is like a big rechargeable box that gives power to start the car and run electrical parts.
The battery in a vehicle stores electrical energy to power the starter motor, electronics, and in hybrid or electric cars, it also powers the electric motor.
""I mean, I always thought when Michael won one, one, two, three, four, five championships, he'd have enough, but then he went to one, two more.""
Championships are like winning the whole season in racing. The driver or team who does the best over many races gets the championship trophy.
In motorsports, championships refer to the titles awarded to drivers or teams who accumulate the most points over a season across multiple races. Winning multiple championships is a sign of consistent high performance and dominance in the sport.
"that McLaren are going to continue their form into 26th
and we really can't do that."
McLaren is a company that makes very fast and fancy cars, and they also race in big car competitions called Formula 1. They are famous for making cars that go really fast and have cool technology.
McLaren is a British automotive manufacturer known for producing high-performance sports cars and competing in Formula 1 racing. They have a rich history in motorsports and are recognized for their advanced technology and engineering.
"But Formula One is a very, very different thing. So it's the same for the teams."
Formula One is a type of car racing with very fast and special cars that race on tracks all over the world.
Formula One is the highest class of international single-seater auto racing sanctioned by the FIA, featuring the fastest and most technologically advanced cars and teams in motorsport.
"But F1 is a very, very different pressurized pot to be in."
F1 is a type of very fast car racing where the best drivers and teams compete with special cars on circuits around the world. It's a tough and competitive sport.
F1, or Formula 1, is the highest class of single-seater auto racing sanctioned by the FIA. It involves highly advanced technology, intense competition, and significant pressure on teams and drivers.
"because if you're in karting, just for example, you can't buy a better team than the works team."
Karting is racing with small, simple cars called karts. Many professional race car drivers start by racing karts when they are young.
Karting is a form of motorsport using small, open-wheel vehicles called karts. It is often the first step in a racing driver's career and serves as a training ground for higher levels like Formula One.
"you can't buy a better team than the works team. You just are able to get into that works team"
A works team is a race team that is backed by a car company. They get the best cars and help to win races.
A works team is a racing team that is officially supported and funded by a manufacturer. These teams usually have the best resources, equipment, and drivers.
"Oh, now? And Red Bull are a very good example. Yes, very much so. They're out there scouting for talent."
Red Bull is a company that makes energy drinks and also has famous race teams. They look for new drivers to help them win races.
Red Bull is a prominent energy drink brand that also owns and sponsors top-tier motorsport teams, including a successful Formula 1 team known for scouting and developing young racing talent.
"I want to be world champion this year. And I think within about two hours, it was another article that came out in Germany"
In racing, the world champion is the driver who does the best over the whole season and wins the biggest prize. It means they were the fastest and most consistent racer that year.
The world champion title in motorsports refers to the driver who accumulates the most points over a season in a specific racing series, such as Formula 1. It is the highest achievement for a racing driver in that series.
"Well, the immediate person, I mean, we all expect Adrian Newey to have seen through the regulations, as he's famous for doing, and come up with an absolute rocket ship, but, I mean, it's a whole bag of regulations, isn't it?"
Adrian Newey is a very smart person who designs the fastest and best race cars in Formula One. He is known for making cars that win a lot.
Adrian Newey is a renowned Formula One car designer known for his innovative and successful race car designs. He has worked with multiple top teams and is famous for finding creative solutions within the regulations.
"I mean, it's a whole bag of regulations, isn't it? 150 pages worth of technical regulations. Describing a modern Formula One car, there's got to be a loophole in there somewhere."
Technical regulations are the rules that say how race cars have to be built and what they can and cannot have. These rules make sure all cars are safe and the races are fair.
Technical regulations are detailed rules set by racing authorities that define the design, dimensions, and performance limits of race cars to ensure safety, fairness, and competitive balance.
"Describing a modern Formula One car, there's got to be a loophole in there somewhere. Oh, for sure. They will find it."
A loophole is like a small trick or gap in the rules that lets race teams do something special that others might not expect, helping them go faster or be better.
A loophole in racing regulations refers to an unintended gap or ambiguity in the rules that teams exploit to gain a competitive advantage without technically breaking the rules.
"Oh, for sure. They will find it. The expectation, as I said, then, is Aston Martin will find somewhere. Adrian will have found something."
Aston Martin is a company that makes fancy and fast cars. They also build special racing cars that compete in the top level of car racing called Formula One.
Aston Martin is a British luxury automotive manufacturer known for producing high-performance sports cars and grand tourers. They also compete in Formula One as a constructor, designing and racing their own cars.
"if there's any doubt, and then the FIA will say, that's not what we intended, you're not allowed to do that, and that's a blanket rule that will go across all the teams. Sometimes they will submit some suggestion and they'll go, we're not, you could look at it like that. And then they will not tell the other teams what they're doing. So the FIA are very interesting, kind of God's eye view position"
The FIA is like the referee in big car races. They make the rules and check that everyone follows them so the race is fair and safe.
"is when they do the dyno testing for the engine, all that data effectively goes to the FIA, so they can sort of understand what they've been doing, how long they've been doing it for,"
Dyno testing is when they use a machine to see how strong and fast a car's engine is working. It helps teams know how good their engine is.
Dyno testing involves using a dynamometer to measure an engine's power output and performance characteristics. This data helps teams and regulators understand engine behavior under controlled conditions.
"And you've got to be able to have the right ingredients for the battery to work with the electrification to work with the combustion..."
Combustion means burning fuel inside the car's engine to make it go. Most cars use this process to turn gas into power that moves the car.
Combustion refers to the burning of fuel inside an engine to create power. In cars, internal combustion engines use gasoline or diesel to generate mechanical energy for movement.
Aerodynamics means how air moves around a car when it drives. If the car is shaped well, it can go faster and use less fuel because the air doesn't slow it down as much.
Aerodynamics in cars refers to how air flows around the vehicle, affecting speed, fuel efficiency, and stability. Good aerodynamics reduce drag and improve performance, especially at high speeds.
"...amilton, one of the elder statesmen and the elder statesman himself, Fernando Alonso. What do we expect from ..."
The Daewoo Statesman is a big, comfortable car made by a Korean company a long time ago. It was meant to be fancy and nice to ride in, kind of like a car for important people. People might talk about it because it’s not very common and was a special kind of car for its time.
The Daewoo Statesman is a luxury sedan produced by the South Korean automaker Daewoo in the 1990s, based on the Holden Statesman from Australia. It represents an attempt by Daewoo to enter the premium car market with a vehicle offering comfort and size at a competitive price. It might be discussed due to its rarity and unique position as a luxury car from a brand better known for economy vehicles.
"Moments of, you know, he won the sprint race in China. Yeah."
A sprint race is a short race that happens before the main race in Formula 1. It helps decide where drivers start in the big race and can give them extra points.
A sprint race in Formula 1 is a shorter race held during a race weekend that determines the starting grid for the main Grand Prix. It offers additional points and is a relatively recent addition to the sport.
"I want to do Le Mans. I want to do Nürburgring."
Nürburgring is a famous race track in Germany that is very hard to drive on because it has many twists and turns.
The Nürburgring is a famous motorsports complex in Germany known for its challenging Nordschleife track, often used for testing car performance and endurance racing.
"I want to do Le Mans. I want to do Nürburgring."
Le Mans is a very long car race that lasts a whole day, where drivers and cars try to go as far and as fast as possible without breaking down.
Le Mans refers to the 24 Hours of Le Mans, a prestigious endurance race held annually in France where teams race for 24 hours straight to test durability and speed.
"...estion marks over Reborn. I think I would say the dark horse here is George Russell who performed brilliantly,..."
The Ford Mustang is a famous fast car from America that lots of people love because it looks cool and goes really fast. It’s been around for many years and is known for being fun to drive. People talk about it a lot because it’s one of the most popular sports cars.
The Ford Mustang is an iconic American muscle car known for its powerful performance and sporty design since its introduction in the 1960s. It has a significant cultural impact and remains popular among enthusiasts for its blend of performance, style, and affordability. It might be discussed due to its ongoing relevance in automotive culture and motorsports.
Select text to request an explanation
Hey, it's Raj.
And Noah.
And we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong,
the show that explores the all-too-human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.
But who isn't?
That's why each week, we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hand with,
whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.
We'll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right,
so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.
Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong,
trapping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.
And for the first time ever, we're going to have full video episodes on YouTube,
because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be right here to help you do them better.
Love y'all.
And keep having stomach issues after eating, like diarrhea, gas and bloating, abdominal pain, and sometimes oily stools.
Sound familiar?
Those stomach issues may actually be a pancreas issue,
called exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, or EPI.
Creon, pancreolipase, may help manage EPI.
Creon is a prescription medicine used to treat people who can't digest food normally,
because their pancreas doesn't make enough enzymes.
Creon may increase your chance of fibrosin colonopathy or rare bowel disorder.
Tell your doctor if you have a history of intestinal blockage or scarring,
or thickening of your bowel wall.
If you are allergic to pork, or if you have gout, kidney problems,
or worsening of painful swollen joints.
Call your doctor if you have any unusual or severe gastrointestinal symptoms,
or allergic reactions.
Take Creon as directed by your doctor and always with food.
Do not chew capsule cysts, this may cause mouth irritation.
Other side effects may include blood sugar changes,
gastitis, and a sore throat and cough.
These are not all the side effects of Creon.
Call 800-63-391-10 or visit creoninfo.com to learn more.
That's C-R-E-O-N-INFO.com.
I'm asking my doctor about EPI and if Creon could help.
The Athletic
World Championship
Coming up on this episode of Stay On Track.
So there will be a strong pairing, but there will be more determination
within the team from Oscar to stop Lando beating him again.
Well the apple cart is an interesting one.
When I was with Michael at Benetton, I remember I did an article somewhere
and I said, I want to be world champion this year.
And I think within about two hours there was another article that came out in Germany
that Michael responded to sort of say,
if he thinks he's going to win the world championship this year,
he's got another thing coming.
You know, we always hear about the kind of Zen master,
Kung Fu master, you know, who's 75 years old.
Yes.
You know, he can still lay everyone out.
Yeah.
Is that possible or is that just a load of rubbish?
Yeah, yeah, that I don't know.
Hello.
We're here.
We are.
Happy New Year.
Happy New Year.
Another one comes very, very quickly.
Last year, my law that went quick.
What did?
Hey, the year.
Oh, yeah.
The whole year.
It's scary.
Exactly.
Yes.
So anyway, yes, it's all going to be kicking off.
It's new regulation year.
It is.
What is it called the new regulation?
It's basically the 26 regulations.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
More updates, more changes.
But we're going to help you.
I'll try and understand it.
And we'll go through it.
We'll have a little look back before we move forward.
Yeah.
And think about what came out of 25 that's going to have an effect through into 26,
because well, certainly the cars are going to be totally different.
Totally different.
And that's going to take a lot of head scratching and learning new terminology.
Yeah.
Which we'll hope you will help you with or you could help us with.
Because actually, to be honest, quite a lot of learning there.
But so it is exciting.
And Landon Orris's world champion will have the number one on his car.
Yes.
Which is going to be good to see, actually.
And Max with a new number as well, changing his number.
So it's going to be interesting to see how the engineers deal with all the new
regulations from the combustion unit part of it to the 50-50 split of the batteries as well.
Losing the MGUH as well from the turbo side of it.
So that's going to be a big shift.
That was using the turbo to charge the battery.
That's not there, but the turbo is still there.
Yeah.
And yeah, but the battery's got massive.
So it's producing 50% of the horsepower.
Yes.
But I know a lot of the problems that they've been having is the depletion of the battery
during the running.
That seems to be the biggest thing.
Because the battery's not just there for a little bit of a boost.
It's actually there to help the power band of the engine as well.
So it will feel little gaps that maybe the combustion side of it needs.
But that's taken energy into the system.
But out of the battery system.
Then you've got to try and then balance how much of that power you're going to be using
from the electrification side of it.
So it's a big test for the engineers for sure.
And the drivers.
Yeah.
Because they're going to have to learn all this stuff.
It's new techniques for driving.
It's going to be a lot of fiddling about with the settings and parts of the circuit
they'll be able to use the maximum downforce.
So the front wings and the rear wings will be going up together.
And then when they get to the straight, they drop them.
So instead of DRS, the front wing goes down as well.
So they can actually use some corners.
They can go through those with the low downforce setting if they can.
As I understand it.
So it potentially means that drivers will be using different techniques around the circuit.
Whether they might mandate certain corners have to use downforce.
Yes, I hope so.
I hope that's going to be the way they have to use the high downforce setup as well.
Yes.
Which is good actually.
Well, that's good actually because I know at the moment they always use their race setup.
So if it rains, you can't adjust the wings.
So it's good that this actually you can adjust the wings to those
more downforce in a wet conditions.
That will actually make the racing better.
So lots of complications.
Yeah, lots of complications.
To confuses.
But we're going to try and get, well everyone's going to be absolutely mad
trying to get their cars to work first of all.
They've got to go testing.
So that'll be January and February.
They've got quite a lot of testing to do.
Yeah, big time.
And we'll be keeping a keen eye on that, won't we?
Yes.
It'll be very, very interesting seeing how the cars, how the teams cope.
We've got a new team coming in.
Yeah.
Cadillac as well.
As well.
Twenty-two.
Twenty-two cars.
Yeah, 11th team.
Going to get crowded in the pit lane.
Yeah, very much so.
It is, yes.
But actually watch, we kick it off with something.
Predictions.
Predictions?
Yeah, so we do some predictions.
Yeah.
Okay, I can't, I predict you're going to predict
the next thing that's going to happen.
Will Norris kick on to another level?
What is your prediction on that, Tamer?
Right, so he's done it, you know.
And there's a lot of comfort that comes from that.
He will be able to, to some degree, relax.
I mean, I think, you know, there's, there's,
it's a question of your amount of avarice you have to win.
Yeah.
I mean, I always thought when Michael won one,
one, two, three, four, five championships,
he'd have enough, but then he went to one, two more.
No, he's still going.
Yeah, sure.
So, and so some people, it propels them to,
to go on to win multiple championships.
I definitely think Lando's got more than one in him.
I think he's probably got three or four.
And the question is, will Oscar,
because he's in the same team with Oscar,
and Oscar did not exactly underperform.
There were moments that he dropped out last year.
He will go through the winter and think,
okay, what do I have to do to patch up those,
those little holes in my performance?
And he will find, he will find out how to stop that
happening again.
Of course, they've both been through a title fight
between themselves and then Max, of course, at the end,
putting pressure on them.
And they will have learned massively from that.
So there'll be a strong pairing,
but there will be more determination within the team
from Oscar to, to stop Lando beating him again.
Yeah.
And I think for me, Lando, he grew massively last season.
Really did learn what he needed to stop himself
from doing all the racetracks and crazy decision-making.
Let's go to Canada.
When he, when he crashed into the pit wall,
trying to pass his teammate, those sort of incidents
are something that you should never, ever really get yourself into.
So we're here to learn from that.
He'd be stronger from that.
Have we seen the best of Lando Norris?
No, definitely not.
I think there is still more to come.
That world championship will be very powerful personally
with, with him and the energy he takes into the car.
But he's still got to be very wary of his teammate,
like, like you said, but you've also got to work out
how to make the team work best
because it didn't work as its best last year.
Which raises the question as to whether or not Lando can,
they want to keep everything even in that team quite famously.
They wanted to have their papaya rolls and they want,
and I expect they will want to kick off the 26th season
saying, you've both got equal chance.
Good luck.
We might have learned a lesson from what happened at the end,
if we're getting some heat from someone else.
But, you know, we can't make these assumptions.
We don't know what car they've got.
We don't know, nobody knows what the format.
You could basically take the form book from last year
and tear it up and say, there may be a team.
There will be a team.
Now, don't test this wrong with them.
I don't think it will be Cadillac, but I might be wrong.
They may be that they know something we don't,
but it could be Ferrari, let's say.
It could have.
Oh, yeah, sure.
Or there's something working long enough.
There's a chance for someone.
So anyway, we make this assumption
that McLaren are going to continue their form into 26th
and we really can't do that.
No.
But they did, you know, let's say they're fighting
for a championship again.
They've got the experience of being in that situation.
They will have learned a lot.
But whether they've got the right strategy
that Red Bull adopts with Max of throwing everything
behind one driver is still a question.
I don't know.
I think when you're in a contention to win a title
and you know you've got a driver like Max,
it makes more sense to have a number one.
Right, I'm going to ask you a question.
And that question is, after winning the World Championship
with Williams and then when you moved over to Arrows,
what did you take with you?
What did you learn to make yourself better?
And of course, then a little bit later, obviously,
with Jordan as well.
Well, the teams I went to after Williams
were teams that were used to trying to copy
the people who were winning.
And the thing is, if you copy the people who are winning,
you're always going to come second to them
because they're already one step ahead.
So you have to kind of introduce the idea that
you have to find your own way
and you have to obviously keep an eye
on what the competition are doing.
But it's a bit like, Johnny, do you remember
getting in the lead for the first time
when you were in a race?
Yeah.
There's no one to follow, is there?
No.
It's a big theory.
It's not.
It is.
And suddenly you're out there and they're going to go,
where are they all gone?
Yes.
Because it is something.
Yeah, it's quite an almost scary moment
because it's something you've never really been
in that position.
All right, you've done it in carton and Formula Ford
or whatever it may be.
But Formula One is a very, very different thing.
So it's the same for the teams.
So the guys at Williams, they were innovating
and that meant that they had no book to copy.
They had no instructions.
They were making up the future
that was that everyone else was going to follow.
And that's a very different place to be.
It's, as you said, it's scary
because you don't have a manual.
You're just having to trust that your knowledge
is the way forward.
Yeah.
I'm exaggerating slightly
because actually I led for a lap in Brazil.
So it only lasted a lap.
Wait, I'm in carton.
And then, oh wait, yes, I know that.
But F1 is a very, very different pressurized pot to be in.
So that's a different thing.
So with Jordan, when I went there,
I had to kind of knock it out of them saying,
let's see, it's no good copying what everyone else is doing.
You need to be able to find your own way forward anyway.
So, but a driver needs to do that
and needs to be able to teach them in many respects
just to think differently and out of the box.
Because I do remember that on strategy
when we didn't have all the computers
and everybody telling us what we should
and shouldn't be doing.
The driver sort of felt what was going on.
And I do remember one race at Salba in Hereth,
in there, sorry, in Barcelona.
And I was the only driver to start on the soft tyres,
which actually worked out being a risk worth taking.
And sometimes you're right,
a driver's input, and I think Lando's input,
we have more power than we think when we're in a team.
You mean political power?
Yeah, political power, but yes, just power generally as a driver.
Well, you know, so we were starting,
we were talking about Lando.
So will that, I think the team have got faith,
they got faith in both their jobs,
but definitely what happens when you're a world champion is
you have a little bit more cachet.
So if I went from Williams to another team,
they were going, oh my God, I've got world champion in the team.
Exactly.
He must know something that's of value.
So that gravitas you have, I think, is sometimes,
sometimes it's misplaced.
You know, I don't know, I didn't know everything.
I only knew what, I didn't know how to design the car.
I think they knew, but the mindset, definitely, you know.
So you've worked with people who, like Patrick Head,
and you knew and so forth, who knew where they were going
and how to go about doing it.
So leadership is a big part of that.
It's very, very good.
You know, if you can instill, as a driver,
you can instill that into a team as well.
You can say, listen, you can do it.
You just have to change slightly the method you've got.
But his strength is going to be very, very important as well
against Oscar because he's, you know,
probably better than I do,
but I know he always tried very hard to try
and take control of the team.
You want it to be better and more in control
over your teammate.
And that's something I think Lando's definitely got to do
more of this season.
So will he grow?
Yes.
He will grow and he will be very, very pleased with himself,
proud of himself, as we saw when he won the championship.
He was, you know, their emotion was obvious.
And I was a little bit put out by some of the comments
that I heard after he won
because he has had a lot of help from his dad
and his dad's financial success,
you know, in the world of business has been a help.
Yes.
But, you know, he didn't do it because his dad was wealthy.
And of course, this is a thing with our sport
is that it's seen quite often as a rich person sport.
And you can understand why.
Yeah.
When you have someone like Lance Stroll,
his dad buys an entire Formula One team.
Exactly.
And he's still, you know,
driving in Formula One because of that.
That clearly is a very helpful asset.
But no one can give you the determination to succeed
and to drive yourself through what you have to go through now
to be successful and deliver.
I was talking to Trevor Carlin about the rise
through the ranks of Landon Norris.
And he was saying that the guy had no life.
You know, he was his whole life was angled towards
delivering himself in Formula One
as the finished article.
So all the training and all the preparation
and everything that goes into being a driver.
And he's worked very hard for that.
Yeah.
And it's a sacrifice as well.
It's not the normal day-to-day life that a lot of people lead.
It's something that you are just entirely focused on that journey
to get to Formula One.
And it doesn't matter to me if you've got all the money in the world
because if you're in karting, just for example,
you can't buy a better team than the works team.
You just are able to get into that works team
that little bit easier.
But when you're in that works team, you still have to deliver.
And Landon was able to deliver in all the formulas
that he was involved with.
And I think he should get a lot more respect for those doubters
because he has sacrificed a lot.
He's achieved a lot.
He's up against a teammate who everybody says
is going to be a world champion in the future.
Well, he's beaten that world champion in the future.
And I think it's something that with the strength
that he's got from winning last year,
he's only going to get stronger.
And I think hopefully people will then give him that credit
that he does deserve.
Other people say, of course, he's in the best car.
That's why he won the championship.
And you sort of go, as far as I can remember,
I think every car that's won the championship
in the last 10 years has always been the best car.
You started from a position of passion you wanted to race.
You weren't karting, but your dad paid.
But at those time it was just about affordable.
Well, we used to take chains and tires out of the bins
that had been discarded.
Well, so go and throw everyone in the car.
And then go and use those for testing.
Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying there.
Yes.
No, we got all the stuff out of the bins,
and that's how we were able to afford it.
You were scavenging.
Scavenging.
Imagine if I did that nowadays,
that would be frowned upon nowadays.
What doesn't matter which frowned upon.
That's what you have to do.
So the point is, yes, I'm trying to get round to this.
It isn't impossible.
It's not insurmountable at a certain level.
I mean, I think karting is way too expensive.
There are ways of making karting.
And the entry level to this sport much, much cheaper.
Yeah.
And I used to do Club 100 with Josh when he started racing.
That's right.
And the reason I did that is
because I didn't know anything about karting.
I didn't do karting.
I started on motorbikes,
but I could afford to pay for the bike myself.
And I was a dispatch rider at the time.
So there has to be a level at which someone who can achieve some level of income
that means they have expendable
and they choose not to go on holiday
and they choose not to go.
They'll spend it on their go-kart.
There has to be a level there that enables people to get up the rung.
And then somebody will spot you.
Because they have people out there now looking.
Oh, now?
And Red Bull are a very good example.
Yes, very much so.
They're out there scouting for talent.
And we're both proof that actually I didn't have the money.
My family had enough money to go racing karts.
You had enough money to go into bikes,
but you didn't have a bank full of gold bullion
that you could just pick and choose when you wanted it.
You had to work for getting yourself on the racetrack as well.
So it proves it can be done.
Ernesto Manacón is the prime example for me now who's in F1.
He never came from money in the background.
Lewis, Lewis didn't have money.
His dad worked very, very hard to pay for it.
So anyway, listen, that's my little soapbox moment there with Lander.
I think Lander deserves it because I think he's worked really hard.
And I think what they've shown is with his dad Adams
that he's actually gone about it in an incredibly professional way.
But it does mean that you have to start when you're about eight years old.
I mean, so, you know, he didn't have this idea of getting sports people
and breeding them and coaching them from such an early age.
There's a cost of that in terms of their social development and all the rest of it.
But anyway, that's the same.
If you're going to win now, you're going to have to start very young.
And in any sport, football, of course, golf, tennis, whatever you want to do.
Tiddlywinks, whatever.
Tiddlywinks.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know.
I reckon I could start twiddlywinks now.
And I reckon I could probably become world champion before I'm too old to play twiddlywinks.
Well, good luck with that one.
Right, let's move on.
Let's move on to another one.
I think you've got one for me.
Yeah, Isaac Hadjar.
So what an amazing season he had.
I mean, from the beginning, in tears being sold,
being abused by Helmut Marco for being a baby, a cry baby.
And then hugged by Anthony Hamilton,
who obviously something rubbed off from Anthony
because he just came back in a brilliant way.
And what a personality as well.
Yes, yes.
And it's good to see.
It was great.
So there he's owned his position.
Bye bye, Yuki, sorry to say.
But you did have another one.
But what will happen, Isaac Hadjar,
will he be the next, what's the word for them,
sacrificial lamb?
I don't know.
What are they?
That seat is, Max has said you need to be a number one.
You have a number one say,
forget challenging him within that team.
So what do you have to do?
He, Max has said also that he needs a number two
that can score points.
In other words, keep the other guys off the podium.
Absolutely.
Or the number one slot somewhere
and take points off the other teams.
Can he do that?
Can he do it?
Can he do that?
Now, if I do what he achieved last year,
he showed probably one of the strongest strengths, consistency.
And that consistency was there in qualifying.
He was always sort of sixth, seventh, eighth,
there are there are their routes
for the majority of the season.
But he was also able to get points consistently as well.
He was consistently ahead of Lawson as well
with that little bit more experience.
He probably wasn't someone that was on the tip of people's tongues
when he was doing F2, strange enough.
He had a good time in F2, never won the championship.
But I think he surprised so many, so many people,
probably including myself,
because I did like his work ethic within the team,
which was just to keep on pushing.
It's a little bit like we alluded to earlier on.
He seemed to be, you've got it, alluded to.
I don't think I listened to him.
I'm surprised you were listening.
I'm quite impressed you were listening.
But anyway, I got over that one.
And yes, it was like we were talking about.
He seemed to be able to be the one that was,
given them the information that they needed,
to be able to produce what he was producing on the race track.
Now, that's a strength that he can take to Red Bull, for sure.
But that's exactly what Max is thinking in a much bigger way.
Now, has Max matured over the last year?
I would say absolutely yes.
I was so pleased.
There was all the talk about the last race in Abu Dhabi,
about backing everybody up
and trying to get the championship won that way.
He didn't go anywhere near that.
He just went out and blew everybody out of the water,
effectively.
It was wonderful to see, just to say.
I mean, I have to say, when he said,
I would have had this championship won way before anyone else.
If I had the McLaren, I can't have agreed with that.
Yeah, the Papaya.
It would have been interesting how that Papaya
would have come into effect with Max being there.
So anyway, no, you're right.
I mean, I think he can.
What you're talking about is his personality as a factor.
You're saying Isaac Hajar's personality is engaging.
It's got to be, yes.
I think the teams like to work with someone like that.
That's important.
Yeah.
So he's not a quiet little mouse.
He's someone who is expressive without being abusive.
You know, I thought he was, some of his radio messages were a little bit fruity,
but he probably didn't expect everyone to listen to them.
No, no, no.
Yeah, but you need that, don't you?
You need that sometimes for someone to question what's going on and to make them think.
Again, he goes back to what you said.
He's making them think, well, maybe we're not doing the right call on strategy
or whatever it may be.
So a driver needs to do that.
Does Max do that?
Yes.
Did Lewis do it in his heyday?
Yes.
All the greats.
And is that enthusiasm?
When things go well, he's showing the team how delighted he is and how excited.
And then that that infects them as well.
They get a kick out of it too.
So he did a great season.
But it's it's big next.
Is it one level more?
It's almost like it's three levels more.
Yeah, yeah.
It's and that's where the pressure becomes from a family environment.
And it's well done.
Well done.
That was a great weekend getting sixth place or fourth place or whatever it may be.
And that was a really good result.
But you're not expecting that to happen every time.
So the expectations are very, very different.
And also he's sort of going to be the whipping boy for the team, isn't he?
You know, the results he is going to be the best he can do is a is a pat on the head
from Max, isn't it?
And the team sort of getting what you did or you could think he's going to have to
accept that in that team, Max rules and he's there to supporting act.
And it's whether you can get your head around that as a competitor.
Yeah.
Because would Max do that?
No, no, absolutely.
So in other words, are you are you will championship material if you can accept
coming number two?
I mean, it has to be seen as if he's going to go and do this job, Red Bull,
he's going to have to say, OK, I'm here to strengthen myself to learn
in order to be number one at some point somewhere.
But how do you how do you communicate that without upsetting the apple cart?
Yes.
Well, the apple cart is that interesting one.
When I was with Michael at Benetton, I remember I did an article somewhere and I said,
I want to be world champion this year.
And I think within about two hours, it was another article that came out in Germany
that Michael responded to sort of say if he thinks he's going to win the world
championship this year, he's got another thing coming.
And what happens?
And he was absolutely right on that front.
Then with Michael Schumacher again with Eddie Irvine, what did Eddie Irvine do?
He went into it thinking I am number two.
Yes, and that was probably the smartest thing he ever did,
because he got very close to winning that world championship in 1990.
Well, he had to have.
Michael had to break his leg.
No, I know.
I know he had to break his leg.
Yes, but his performances were very, you know, pretty good.
I have this image of Eddie going in the garage late one night, undoing the break,
whatever it was that failed on Michael's car.
He was in contention for the world championship.
Yeah, he was.
But he was always, he had some very, very good races in that period.
But I think within the environment of Ferrari,
because he had accepted Michael was number one, that sort of made his whole
feeling within the team much easier to deal with.
Yeah, and probably Michael was probably more open or open.
Yes, exactly.
Because he's accepted that this is the guy's going to help me, not try and challenge me.
So I think you have to play a little bit of that game.
And that's what happens.
But this will never stop.
This conversation will never stop with Formula One because you have two championships
and the two, near the Twain Shell, mix, you know, well.
They're like oil and water.
If you drive a championship, that's the thing that everyone turns on to watch.
That's the thing that everyone globally wants to know who is the Formula One world champion
that no one ever asked who the constructive championships champions are.
And it's a meaningful thing to the teams.
And it's a meaningful thing to industry and so forth.
Yeah.
So can he do it?
Yes.
Has he got to play the right game to be able to do it?
Probably not next year.
In the next couple of years, I would say probably.
Well, we're watching with interest, won't we?
It's going to be very interesting to see how he copes.
Hopefully it's not another one that gets chewed by Max because it's still a good chance.
What might happen?
I think what you're saying is it's how he deals with it psychologically.
Yeah, it is.
Because if you had expected to beat Max and then you found out you couldn't,
then that can be crushing.
But if he understands the terms in which he's going in,
and of course, Dr. Helmut Marker no longer being there.
Yeah, that's a big shift.
I think that along with Mech is actually a more understanding talk to him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's going to be very helpful.
Supportive, yeah.
Exactly.
Hey, it's Raj.
And Noah.
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