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Why are ASE Certifications Important? With Oscar Gomez, Part 2
Why are ASE Certifications Important? With Oscar Gomez, Part 2
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About this episode
Oscar Gomez returns for part two of a deep dive into the importance of ASE certifications and the challenges facing automotive technicians today. The conversation highlights the disconnect between safety inspections and emissions testing, the need for ongoing education, and the cultural barriers that can hinder learning. Oscar shares personal anecdotes about mentoring young technicians and the importance of patience in training. The episode also discusses the evolving role of government in the industry and the necessity for shop owners to communicate value to customers effectively.
Topics:
ase certifications
safety inspections
emissions testing
ongoing education
mentoring technicians
cultural barriers
government involvement
shop owner communication
value perception
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Jeff Compton and Oscar Gomez discuss the value of ASE Certifications and explain how they help technicians identify their specialties and weaknesses, thereby improving through training and learning from failures. They discuss the challenges in the automotive industry, including the misdiagnosis of car issues due to rushing and the need for patience and mentorship for new technicians. As Oscar highlights the importance of motivating and supporting students and entry-level mechanics, Jeff underscores the necessity of properly conveying the worth of technicians' skills to customers.
00:00 Anger about prioritizing emissions over safety inspections.
05:45 Industry needs specific training for bilingual employees.
07:50 Language barriers and cultural resistance to change.
11:27 Disregard EGR fault, focus on the testing limit.
14:51 Understanding principles without scientific physics, is an amazing approach.
17:26 Car troubles? Tapping or diagnosing, I'm flexible.
22:03 Identify weak points and focus on training.
23:51 Enjoyed writing the annual test and showed the importance of feedback.
27:21 California admissions diagnostician process requires alternative education.
30:55 Mentor's tech becomes state rep, mentor cited.
34:26 Advocate advises installing brakes, affecting car mechanics.
38:13 New technicians need patience and understanding.
41:38 Industry lacks patience, hindered quality and diagnosis.
45:55 Car's hood and cowl ducts are plugged with litter.
47:39 Addressing industry change, prioritizing business owner mentality.
51:23 Striving for shop improvement and financial success.
53:36 Supporting affordable tools, not wanting to struggle.
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Filter:
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Ford F-150 Lightning
"... done. You know, my guys actually just did a Ford lightning also that failed because it was a tuned computer...."
Car
Toyota Camry
"...boss's daughter. She's 18 years old. And we get a Camry or Corolla, doesn't matter. Same thing. A little ..."
Car
Toyota Corolla
"...ughter. She's 18 years old. And we get a Camry or Corolla, doesn't matter. Same thing. A little four cylind..."
Car
Master Tech
"...you know, because some people say, well, I know a master tech that can't do a break job. That's very possible b..."
Anger about prioritizing emissions over safety inspections.
Industry needs specific training for bilingual employees.
Language barriers and cultural resistance to change.
Disregard EGR fault, focus on the testing limit.
Understanding principles without scientific physics, is an amazing approach.
Car troubles? Tapping or diagnosing, I'm flexible.
Identify weak points and focus on training.
Enjoyed writing the annual test and showed the importance of feedback.
California admissions diagnostician process requires alternative education.
Mentor's tech becomes state rep, mentor cited.
Advocate advises installing brakes, affecting car mechanics.
New technicians need patience and understanding.
Industry lacks patience, hindered quality and diagnosis.
Car's hood and cowl ducts are plugged with litter.
Addressing industry change, prioritizing business owner mentality.
Striving for shop improvement and financial success.
Supporting affordable tools, not wanting to struggle.
Select text to request an explanation
It's just crazy, man, how some shops would much rather just collect that $100, $200 for that inspection, sign it off, and then send it down its way. That. That's mind boggling. It's part two of a conversation with.
Oscar Gomez on the Jada mechanic podcast this week. Starting now. You probably saw Keith Perkins video from a month.
Yeah, that was crazy, man.
So, like, here, here it is. To me, this is as clear as could be. So here you are going through what you're going through, right? And that guy, which we can't prove, but we all know what was trying to go on there. What was intent was that guy's probably gonna. Is nobody's broke into his house, you know, and pointed guns at his kids and done anything of such sorts.
Right? And I guarantee that wasn't the first time he did that.
Oh, hell no. God, no. God no. I. If somebody is listening and can explain it to me, better to justify why the emissions thing is more important than the safety thing, please sit me down, talk to me like I'm dumb, and explain it to me. I'd love to understand it because to me, it's just ridiculous. It's just a money grab, you know? And it's so bad that, like, the industry looks at us and it's like, because this is what we're worried about with the safety inspections that are coming up here is they're going to look at us and it's like our industry is going to look even more tarnished now because everybody now when they go to get a safety inspection, is going to immediately decide, oh, you weren't making monies on safeties before and that's why the price went up. And the reality is it's like, no, the government was having too many cars get passed that shouldn't have been.
So now, unfortunately, because of the 10%, 20%, whatever, bad apples in the bunch, all of us suffer now pay the price. Yeah. And it sucks. It sucks. I don't want to be doing it like that. I would rather just work in a shop where I inspect the car, I fail it, and that's it. Or I pass it. That's it.
None of this, you know, I got to take all this and prove it to the government that I'm actually working on that car. And these are the pictures and this is why I'm failing it. And because we're going to have it where the customers and all this. So the same video that gets sent to the government gets sent to the customer, right. And it shows that they have to pass it because, you know, it's not with out of the allowable spec.
Okay.
But that customer is still going to drive out of there and go, my brakes are noisy. You just safetied my car. Like, what are we supposed to do at that point? Like, I can't stand it. It's just. I've said it for years. If I never have to do another safety inspection on a car, I wouldn't bother me in the least. Would not bother me. It's put me.
I'm putting so much on the line. So many techs don't get it. So many shop owners don't get it. You were putting so much on the line. When you do an inspection, a safety inspection on a cardinal or like you, somebody like yourself, and, you know, you get into the emissions testing side of it, you're putting so much on the line every time that you do it.
Yeah.
And you are sitting in a situation that's very. It's not special, but it's very different than what would that be? What would happen to most of us? Right? It's. I just.
It's a tough one, man. You know, before. Before all this happened, I actually did a video on a forerunner that came to us because they had been to other shops. And the guy did an engine change. Why he would put a GM engine in the Toyota beats me. But that's what the guy did. Here in California, you have to get it state approved. And all the shops you were going to, nobody could figure it out, you know, and it was like, dude, this is easy.
EGR is not working. That means there's no vehicle speed. He had a mechanical transmission, so we found a Toyota. I forgot. I think it was the Mr. Two had a digital and mechanical vehicle speed speed sensor that was the same teeth wheel. So we actually found one online. Put that on.
Now the PCM was getting input and the odometer still worked. And that was it. That we just needed that to get the EGR to work, to get knocks to come down. Once we did that, dude, the truck was freaking perfect. We. We inspected, we certified it. Then we send it over to the referee, referee retested and gave him a, you know, thumbs up that the truck was all said and done. You know, my guys actually just did a Ford lightning also that failed because it was a tuned computer.
And the guy came to us from 2 hours away because I guess nobody else knew what the hell to do with it. It's like nobody knows how to reflash a module. That's freaking insane. So anyway, the guy comes over, drops the truck off. We had it for about two days, and pcm on the module was the right number. So we just told them, you know, it needs a reflash. We reflash a truck, worked out perfectly fine. And then guy was super excited, got it taken care of with the state, man.
And it's. It goes back to, like, what we've always talked about. So many guys do this, and they. Their claim to fame is, I've been doing this for x amount of years. I don't need training. I don't need this, I don't need that. But yet when it comes down to those types of repairs, or diags, they're, they're clueless. And then that's what starts hurting every though the industry as a whole, because they're like, well, that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
That guy doesn't always talking about, let me turn to the Internet and see what the Internet knows. Yeah, you know, and it's. It's a never ending cycle that we're always, we always end up back to. Industry needs training. Guys need to understand that they need that specific training. You know, I'm bilingual, I speak Spanish. And one of the crazier parts is when I teach a class to spanish speakers, they're usually the ones that are more reluctant to new information or to even attend training. And when I teach to english speakers, they're more receptive, they ask more questions, and they actually want to be there.
Right. I was out in Texas last week teaching, and one of my groups was a spanish speaking group, and two guys, well, actually was like three guys in there that the whole time were pretty much everything. I would mention to them and speak to him about what contradicted. It's like, well, no, no, no, you're wrong. Cause I've been doing it this and this and that, and it's like, well, hey, in that case, man, at one point, I did actually try to hand them the clicker. I was like, well, then you give the class, you know, and the. The rest of the group was like, hey, you know, calm down. I want to learn this.
So. And I see this again more on the hispanic side, because their mindset is, I'm a mechanic. I've been doing this for x amount of years. I don't need to learn that technical stuff.
Right.
He actually made a statement that when he cranks an engine over, he can tell what's wrong with it. And it's like, cool. I mean, great. That's good for you, man. I'm all, but how are you going to write that out on a work order, charge a customer? And then what if end up in court? What are you gonna tell the judge? Well, 30 years of experience, I heard it and I knew that it was a bad valve, right? How, how does that work? And he, you know, so, like, damn. But I walked away with that, with a different perspective as some of these guys really need a rude awakening. Like, somebody grab him, shake them up so they can realize, like, damn, I'm really screwing up here because, see, not.
To cut you off, but it, I could see it if there's somebody like, say, I could speak English, or, excuse me, if I could speak Spanish. Sometimes I speak English and I went and taught the class, right? And there I am, you know, a gringo sitting up there, like, giving it in their native tongue, but they're not going to listen to me at all. But you're one of them, speaking it as your native tongue, teaching them, and they're still fighting you on it. Is that just a cultural thing? Like, of, like, I don't want to think that the Spanish are reluctant to technology or is it like an environmental thing where their demographic of the who they've been fixing the cars for, for 30 years has been people with no money and they just need that car to be able to get to work?
It usually comes down to, like, the demographic of how they got started in the industry, if they were, if they were one. You know, we call it a challenge, which is like a helper. So if they were somebody's helper, an old timers helper that, you know, had zero tools and would just kind of guesstimate on everything, then that person taught them as, this is all you need to know on how to fix a car, right? And if you can't figure it out this way, try this. Try that part. Try this part. Because at one point, you know, speaking back to that group, they asked me like, I want to know if the car does this, what do I need to replace? It's like, oh, you want silver bullets?
That's right.
How it works, my friend. And, you know, it's it. Unfortunately, not everybody in the hispanic cultures like that. There's a bunch of guys I know a bunch of groups that, great groups. These guys are continuously educating themselves, attending training, doing everything they can to get some good information to become better. And then you got some guys, you know, unfortunately, like, some of these guys that we're more like, no, I'm a mechanic. I want to know the mechanical side and I need you to tell me what this code. It's this.
That code is this. And it's like, all right. So I see where they came from, and it's kind of like when I teach drivability classes, I always tell people is, if somebody ever taught you when a car comes in, you clear the check engine light and go driving and see what code comes back. That means you were taught by an old timer with Obd one. Because with Obd one, that was our process.
Right?
Car came in, disconnect the negative, clear the light, reconnected, drive it. Whatever code came back. That's what you focused on. And, you know, so those are some of the things that. That old school mentality still stays, but it doesn't apply with today's vehicles. Some stuff still does, like vacuum testing and all that fun stuff. You know, I had a great conversation with Jim Morton about that, but most of the time, a lot of the old stuff we learned you can't apply today. Like the obd one.
Clear the light and then go drive it.
It's scary. Within the last decade, I still worked at a shop.
That.
That was their process.
No.
2018 Ford truck came in, chuck engine light on. He would clear, it all goes. The freeze frame, data goes away, everything. And then he give the keys back to the customer, and he's like, just when it comes back in, bring it back in. And I'm like, why don't we just look at it now properly? But that was. He'd always been trained, right? And he was. He wasn't a good tech. He never got certified to be a tech.
That was just his process. Yeah, right. Because it was the same thing, all Obd one. Like, you. You might scan the code, and there's ten codes in there, right? And then it was like. But the only one was causing the car to stall. He didn't care that, you know, his Obd one evap system didn't work properly. He didn't care.
Right? Like, up here, we didn't care what. What was, you know, and I had an EGR fault, and it had all this other stuff when the car stall, and what do you do first? So he would clear it and give it back to the customer. It comes back with only two codes in it, and he's like, okay, that's probably the two that we would work on. And I'm like, that's so stupid. Like, why don't we just start to actually test this stuff? But he just. He didn't understand testing his limit was the code. Told me what part number to change, like our. Like our boy Mario, right? DTC's are not part numbers.
Yeah, sometimes they are, but they're not. Right. It's just. It's a window. I. I had an interesting thing this morning, or this week with my two apprentices that I have. So my two apprentices are. One's a young gentleman, he's probably 24.
And then the other one is the boss's daughter. She's 18 years old. And we get a Camry or Corolla, doesn't matter. Same thing. A little four cylinder Toyota 2005 gets towed in while we'd all been gone on holidays. And we'd put a battery in this car in, like, May.
Okay?
And so she drove it for three more months or whatever, and then it's like she says, the car won't run, so they towed in. Battery's dead. Cool. Check it out. The alternator's junk. So I go through the whole process with them of breaking down. You know how I approach an alternator problem, right? And I said to him, because they need. Both of these young people have not gone to our apprenticeship training classes yet, where they're going to get in there and they're going to touch on alternators, but they're going to blow them out of the water with magnetism and all this kind of stuff.
And I said, I'm going to tell you right now, think of it as like it's got unicorn dust in there. What I want you to understand is I want you to understand the Volt drop that I'm going to do from the positive to the positive, and the volt drop from the negative to the negative. And then I said, I want you to understand the circuits that I'm going to show you, you know, that. Go to the alternator. That's it.
Yeah.
So we're not going to discuss how the alternators. What's going on inside right now? I said, I don't. That's not that important. I said, I want you to understand so that, you know, before you put an alternator on the checks, you have to do.
Right.
Right. It's like. So we didn't grab a scanner and look for codes because it's an o five. We could have done that, but it wouldn't. It's not like a 15 would give us more information. Right. On the charging site. I went through it.
I said, this is the stuff that's important you guys have to understand, because I said, this is what still trips up really good mechanics in our trade. Once in a while when we get hurrying is you'll hang an alternator on it and it's got a bad ground, or you hang an alternator on it and you never bothered to check. Did the charging indicator light up when I turned the key on? No, I didn't. So that stuff still happens, right, Oscar? Some of us still drop the ball from time to time. Of course, we put the alternator in it. And then I'm thinking, oh, shit, I hear this has been my luck. And so I put the alternator in. It started up.
Now the battery lights on. It's, you know, it's napa. Napa alternator has a leaky. So I. Then the lessons continue, and I show them that it's got a leaky diode coming across. There's too much ac ripple through the. And we go and get another alternator, and it fixes the car the second time, but, I mean, so the parts thing always is still stressing me out, but I mean, I just have to, like, you know, what can I lesson can I get from this to pass on to somebody else instead of just losing, flipping my lid because the parts defective? Right?
So I love the way you approached it because, you know, I've sat. I make a joke out of this when I start my classes, and I've sat in some classes, I was like, damn, that guy's freaking smart. I didn't learn anything, but that guy's a genius, right? And it's particularly when I teach electrical. You know, most instructors start with, you need valence, electrons, rings, and neutrons and all this shit. Like, okay, how is that going to help me fix a car, right? It doesn't. So as long as I can understand the principle of how it functions without the scientific physics part of it, we can get it done. And the way you did that was freaking amazing, man. And unfortunately, you know, it didn't work.
But then that gave you another teaching opportunity, like you said, to help them actually pick up. What do you do in a situation?
I still diagnosed it properly. It was the part execution that failed, right?
Yep.
I mean, I tell everybody all the time. When I was going through school, when I even went off to college and all that kind of stuff, I did terrible in the classes because I was just like, I know what an alternator does, so you're losing me. I would lose patience. I would lose enthusiasm for learning. When they go, oh, it's a. It's magnetism and spinning this and all that kind of stuff. And I was just like. Like, I fell asleep.
It didn't hold my. You know, we would do Ohm's law, and we would build series parallel circuits and all this kind of stuff on a breadboard and, like, the resistors and all this kind of stuff. I was. I sucked at it. I was terrible. Like, I barely passed to get out, and. And what was my light bulb moment is when somebody took away all that kind of stuff. And we took a class last year, and the guy said, I understand.
He said, you know, serious parallel. He says, but think of all this is 99% of the time you're going to be fixing a series circuit. That's it. You got to use up the potential to load all that jazz. Complete flow, a loop, whatever you want to call it. That's it. Just approach it like that, because. And I'm good.
Like, I'm already good. But the other people that were sitting there with me were like, they're starting to get it. You could see the light bulb going off with the young guy now, and he's. Because when you go to school and they start teaching Ohm's law, it all seems really simple on a serious circuit. Then they teach you a parallel circuit, a serious parallel. And I see, like. And then they pull the math out, and you immediately see half the kids, you lose them.
Right.
Like, the math doesn't. How that does the math that way, right? Like, I'm all, like, fractions. And I just. I took a test light out, and I took a Dvo m out, and I showed him. I said, this is the, you know, this is the tool I use for this test, and this is what I use for that. And I said, if you get all that down, good. Got it. Because I want them to be able.
It's like when the car is towed in, it doesn't start, doesn't click. I want them to know that when they come to me an hour later and go, it's a starter. I want to have confidence. We can order the starter, put it in, and the car is going to start up and, you know, like. And I don't. At the end of the day, if they go over there and they tap on it with a hammer and it starts up, I'm just as good with that as if they have to go through the diagnostic process, right. I don't want them to tap every one of them and not miss the ground cables, like, right in front of them broke off. Like, I don't want them to be doing that.
But, I mean, it's like, they don't need to be. Tell me exactly what the power flow is through the component. They just need to be able to tell me. I can 100% assure you the circuits to the component work. That's all I need to hear, you know, that's what's key for me. We glitched there for a minute.
Yeah, we glitched for a little bit.
That's good. So, and that's the whole thing because I'm just trying to get them so that when they go to the first week of school and they sit down, they're confident.
Yeah.
They're not sitting there going. All the scuttlebutt that they've heard online and other, their friends talking from other shops is electrical and drive bill. You got to really watch it for that. That's a hard one, man. I want them to go and be like, I got a guy at my shop that, you know, lets me, shows me how to do this and shows me how to do that and I'm excited to do it, you know?
Exactly.
That's what I want. That's what, that's the. If they come out of there, and I don't care if it takes them 2 hours to do four tires, if I can turn them out in the parking lot and that car got dropped off and nobody knows anything about that car, and they can go out and in an hour later they can come in and tell me what it needs. That's the tech I want to cultivate.
Exactly, exactly. And then that's, that's what falls into our part as mentors is to be able to inspire them and motivate them. Because, you know, I remember when we all, I mean, we all started, it was all that hazing and all that fun stuff. That's cool and all, but at the same time as you're really scaring that kid, so if you grab them, you know, when they got that desire, that, that hunger to do more, and we could be strong mentors like you've been doing.
Yeah.
That's just gonna motivate them. And then if we keep inspiring them, they're just gonna become unstoppable. And, you know, that's what we always shoot for, though. I know that specifically for myself. I know that's what I shoot for. When these guys are sitting in my classes, sometimes they do come in like, man, I'm not getting it. It's like, you don't get it yet, but we're gonna get it. And, you know, and I always, like, one thing I do with my, like, my classes is all my students that take my electrical have to take the ase certification.
So this way they can see where they're at. And what I always do is, you know, I was always taught, you got to lead by example. So if they're taking an ase test, I'm taking an AC test. It's not necessarily on that topic, but screw it, I'll take whatever test I can. If I pass it, great. If I fell it, even better. Because now that's a learning experience for me. And I could show them too is like, look, I felt test too.
And it just helps them get that much more inspired and then take to take it up a notch. When they pass their ASC, they bring me a passing email and I'll write them a check for the test fee because, like I tell them is this way, you guys know that I'm not messing around. Like, I believe that much in you that I'm going to write you a check for the cost of the test because I know that you got what you needed to know from this class. And that's stuff that I feel that a lot of us need to be doing as mentors to these young kids to help them want to get more out of it and then learn the right processes in ways just like you're doing. Jeff.
Yeah. So let me ask you, Oscar, is ase. Like, I want to think that, like, I'm not some people, I'm not against the program. You know what I mean? Like, we've seen, brian and I have had lots of discussions on this, lucas, too, about it, and I'm not against it. You know what I mean? It's just. Do you think it's not doing enough? I feel, though, for what the industry needs it to mean.
The way I look at AAC is I don't. Most misconception is it's just a piece of paper. I completely agree with that. I look at AAC's as the only way for me to know my Achilles heel. So when I go take an AC, my goal is to pass it, but at the end of the day is it helps me know where I'm weak at.
Yeah.
So when I take the test and let's say I'll take, we'll say engine performance, for example, and then I take the test, pass it. But then I notice that out of six questions in ignition, I got two right. So then that means that I'm weak in ignition. So that helps me determine where I need to focus my energy in training to be able to patch that gap. So that's how I actually tell people and more and more my students about acs is don't use ASC as like a bragging, right? Don't use ASC as saying, oh, I'm ASC certified, who gives a shit? Use ASC as a way for you to determine where am I weak at? What are my weak points, right? And a lot of times they get like, what do you mean by weak points? I'm like, yeah, I'm a drivability guy. Yeah, I could diagnose a transmission. Can I repair one? Hell no. Can I take one apart? I'll take it apart, but I'm never gonna put it back together.
Or if I do, it's not gonna work. Right? I know what my weaknesses are. That makes me that much better because I know where I'm weak at, you know, and a lot of text are like, I could fix a car from bumper to bumper, great. But I guarantee you're not that good at all of it. So why not just pick a specialty out of it and then know where you're weak at and not do that, right? So that's how I kind of look at AAC's because I know a lot of guys, like I said, they use it as a bragging point. Like, oh, I got these many. That's awesome, dude. You know, hold a 18 of them right now.
But, and that's mainly because my freaking, every time I could do a class, I gotta go take more. But you know, my main thing is emissions, electrical and drivability. Those are my three specialties. That's why, like when I go to a training event, that's what I focus in those types of classes because that's what I do.
Right?
And I actually helped write the a one this year. And yeah, I got, I was involved with the process. It was, it was a really good process. I really enjoyed it and I got. It gave me a different view of the acs. You know, it a lot goes into it to actually develop them and then that kind of just re edified what my opinion on them are and that that is to use them as a way to know your weaknesses and strengths and whatever subject you're testing on, that's it. And, you know, because some people say, well, I know a master tech that can't do a break job. That's very possible because you might be a good test taker, right? But look at his test scores and see where he's weak at and test them in that.
And I guarantee you he's gonna suck. Right? So that, that's why, that's how I look at him and more. When I fail the test, I actually get more excited than anything because then it's like, cool, I suck. And I take myself back home and then start figuring out how can I get better here? What trainings do I need, what videos do I need? What do I need to read to patch that up? So that, that's just how I kind of see ac. And I know some guys really just you. You say that three letter acronym, they fucking flip. But, you know, it. It's, in my opinion, it's just looking at it as where do I stand? And that as of right now, that's kind of the only metric we have as text to know where.
What are my strengths and what are my weaknesses other than, you know, comments on YouTube and shit.
This is kind of going to be a weird question for you in the situation that you're currently at. But I mean, when we talk up here about what I have, look up in Canada with a certification that's recognized by the government. Right, right. You're kind of. You. You know exactly what that's like to be in the middle of it because like, you, you do so much for the state. And California, like, is almost up here would be. We'd call it another country, for God's sakes.
Like, there's so many people and it's so. The way it runs itself as a state within its, you know, it's, you know what I'm trying to say, right. Do you think, like, because you hear people when we talk and I. And I'm. I'm a proponent of the idea of licensing. I'm a proponent of the idea that, like, there should be some base minimum certification passed that shows some level of competency. Right. And I'm not saying it's all written tests.
I mean, I. Brian and I have agreed for years there needs to be like, if you're going to pass ase, there needs to be like a car. And you go over to the car, right? And I take the fuse out and I cut the leg off the fuse and put it back in. If you can't find that bug, you don't pass. Right? So somebody that's going through what you're going through, because you hear all the time the detractors that go, listen, as soon as the government gets involved, they screw it up. Anything the government has ever, you know, the government's the famous words, what is it? We're here to help. That's the last thing. Right.
I don't feel like Oscar. It's inevitable in this industry. That's gonna happen. I really do feel that it's like, and it's already here where I am, and you're kind of already in it where you are in your particular little corner of what you do. Are you then for that in our industry, for the betterment of the industry, or where you're sitting right now? Do you kind of. Are you got a different feeling about it, or do you feel like it's still. The system is still good? I'm just. Unfortunately, the system needs work.
I feel the system needs work. So here in California, if you want to become an admissions diagnostician, you have to go through either alternative version of a six, a eight, and l one, or get your three ascs just to qualify to take the state exam. Back in the old day, when I took that same program, they did have a practical portion. So once you were added to a station's license as a licensed technician, a field rep would come out, you know, usually within three months to the shop, and then they'd take you over to the car and they'd make you run specific tests. One of those tests was a propane enrichment test on an oxygen sensor.
Yeah.
So that that would show that one you have the competency of using propane rig, setting up a lab scope, and testing a zirconia o two. Progressively that started dying down to the point where they'd come out if once a month, once a year. And then after that, it flipped. So it went from where the agency that's here to kind of help you guys to, if I come out to your shop, it's a bad day. So it changed the. Politically. It changed from let's work together to make this good.
Yeah.
If I'm here, it's gonna be a bad day. So, you know, I feel it needs work. One thing that California just did recently is that now, if you end up getting in trouble, you don't go in front of an administrative law judge. You actually go in front of a three man panel. So the panel consists of a state of California rep, a shop owner, and a consumer. And then you plea your case to them, and then between the three, they make a decision on what. What your reprimand or what's going to happen with you. I feel that's a little bit better than the old method.
The old methodology was that an administrative law judge is a judge who listens to any licensing case here in the state of California. So they're not specific to automotive. They know doctors, nurses, caretakers, everybody they listen to. Right. And I could share a story about something. But I think for that one, we'll say for private. But. And this was a case that I actually worked on.
And you'll be like, what the hell? When I share this with you now with this three man panel, I feel it's gonna be a lot easier, because now you know me as a shop owner. I'm gonna hear it from a tech. If I was on the panel, I'd be hearing the tech side, and like, okay, well, I understand why you went that route. Right. The bureau rep, who no longer is not picking sides but no longer on our side, more on the consumer side, is gonna base it off of, okay, well, how did this affect the consumer? And the consumer is gonna look at it like, okay, well, he didn't really try to screw that person over. It just ended up looking that way. Right. So I feel that that's a better way of doing things.
And in my opinion, I just think that also the state needs to be more, what's the word? More involved with the industry and not against us. Right. Because, like I've always said is those guys were techs at one point. They know what it's like. They know what it is. They know the whole process. But then once they get a little bit of power under their belt, they forget all that. Dude, you got to remember where you came from, right? I remember.
I remember this clearly because my mentor had a shop probably about 2 miles away from the shop I was at at the time, and one of his lead techs left and became a state rep. About two years later, he sends an undercover over to my mentor shop, and their tech missed the deviation or the issue, and then they got cited. And so when my mentor mentioned, I'm like, dude, that guy worked for you? Like, who in their right mind would be like, I'm gonna go send my old boss an undercover car? Like, that's fucked up, right? And so it's kind of like, all right, man, you kind of have to remember where you came from. You know? When I opened up my shop in 2022, the guy who came out was roughly around my age, you know, mid thirties. And during our state, our station inspection, we spent about 30 minutes, man, just. Just him just drooling over our diagnostic cart. And then afterwards, he's like, oh, shit, I got to do my inspection. He's like, ah, yeah, you're fine.
And he just kind of, like, just signed everything off is all. Right, I'm out of here, right? And when I. When my. I talked to my service advisor that day, I'm like, this is how I remember in the early two thousands, how the state reps used to be.
Yeah.
And then progressively, as the two thousands rolled into, like, you know, 2010 and stuff, they flipped to where it's like, we're gonna come after you, whatever you do. We're gonna take your job away, we're gonna take your livelihood away. And. And there was one guy that we were good friends on Facebook, and he also works for the bureau, and I told them, like, hey, Mandev, congrats on the job. Just help us. Do me a favor, man. Help us talk to you guys. Like, you guys have issues, talk to us.
We'll talk to you. Let's get this industry together so this way we can work together and have a better, better working industry than you guys fighting us and us fighting you.
We find it's really hard. If we have a question and that, like, a lot of them have popped up in this new enrollment, like a new rollout of the, of the safety inspections up here. If we have a question, then there's a lot of them. It takes forever for anybody to get back, if they leave and get back at all.
Yeah.
And I think it's like we joked about, it's because, like, I think a lot of people don't really know, like, they're not going to put their hand up and go for 100% every time. That's the answer. Because somebody's going to go, no. And then their liability shot. And it seems like right now nobody wants to put their hand up and go, this I know for sure.
Yeah.
Right. And it's scary because it's like if the car, if I'm driving the car and the brakes pulsate like crazy and the thing, the pedals spongy. I don't care if the deflection of the brake rotor is without, you know, is within spec. I don't care if the pads are not separated or with inspect the car's unsafe.
Yeah.
It's as simple as that. And that's what I'm going to write down. If somebody wants to fight me all the time on it, then why? I'm just not going to bother doing inspections. And that's what I'm going to tell my boss flat out, because I don't want to fight with people. I don't want to fight the end of the day. The car needs brakes. Right? Like, that's what it needs.
Right.
Case closed. It needs brakes. It needs to be restored back to the way it's supposed to be. That's what it's going to take to do it. Let's get that done. I don't want to argue. I hate that. Misses customer, do you really think that that should be driving that way? Well, no, not really.
Okay, well then I'm sorry that you only want to legally drive, but I have an, as an advocate for you doing my due diligence, I have to tell you that you need to put brakes on the car. And it should be as simple as that in this industry. And unfortunately it's been all screwed up because of, like you said, these cars that people go out there and they misdiagnose and, you know, the bait cars or whatever you want to call it, we don't have that here. If we've had it here, it hasn't been our own government that's put out. It's been somebody like a news channel that's put it out and you know, it's gone to shops and I've seen all these, you know, and it's like, why does it always make for good tv? Because they go to the shop that, where the person's like either not getting paid for their diag or they're flat rated on their diag and that's why they missed that the fuse was there, that was blown or the fuse had the leg cut off or whatever, right? And I go back to that fuse, leg cut off because I literally, like, I showed my two apprentices how it was like, see, this is why the fuse has got the little pins on the back of it for putting your test light on. That doesnt mean that the fuse is good. What do you mean? Well, heres the scenario. Say now I go over to the alternator and I touch that pin and theres nothing there.
What do you do then? Well, I guess I would start open up the harness, said, no, you would pull the fuse out and look at the fuse. That's what you would do, right? And I talked about, like, Brian was just, again, I talked to that guy every day. He says he went over, he talked about he was in a shop for 18 minutes to fix a pin fitment issue on the back of a fuse box for a ram truck. And he charged him $400. He was there 18 minutes and the guy lost his lid. But I mean, they'd worked on the truck for two days and Brian went over there and went, yeah, there's the fuses there, but there's nothing, no power coming out like on the backside of the box. And like, hey, you know, they did put an ECM in that car and it still wouldn't have fixed it. Right.
Because they just assumed that the fuse is good, it must have power. I said to these, to my two apprentices that this is the critical stuff, because I said, this is, you might one day, when you're trying to graduate for your apprenticeship, they might bug a car, and I guarantee you one of the teachers might try this. And this is why you have to go back. And I said, because this is the fast way. You check the fuse. Because I said, you don't want to grab, you know, if somebody says the fuse, good. And you grab the fuse and you pull it out and you look at every fuse in the box, we're going to have a talk. Because, like, that's, you know, slow and that's not how you.
But if you go to the component and the power is not there, don't grab the exacto knife and start cutting open the harness or, you know, but you know what I mean? Every day, that's how we do it.
Yeah.
I said, because here's the example, and I didn't have to pull up. I could have shown, you know, somebody's video online or whatever, but it's just like, see how this works? And you see that light bulb go off in their head, and it's just like, okay, he's showing me the first step of the process, and then he's showing me the second step and the third step. It's tough because. And then I go and misdiagnose a car the next day, and it's just like, I'm only human, right? Like, that's the whole thing. But it's, where are we failing the young people when we're trying to get them coming up?
Oscar, in this industry, leave on our expectations, man.
You think so?
Yeah. I feel that a lot of these guys, a lot of older techs and shop owners forget that one day they didn't know shit. So they expect that these guys coming in already can do what they do. And it's like, come on, man, you got to cut on some slack. Right? Yeah. You know, if, if you kind of look at stuff kind of like the medical field, before you can even, you graduate, becoming a doctor, you still got to go do your residency somewhere. Yeah. Right.
And in the automotive industry, you know, we finish up our technical training and it's like, all right, hit the field, right? And then what some shop owners expect, and some of the foreman's in lead taxes. You just got training. How the hell do you not know how to do that? It's like, you got to give me some time, man. I got to work into it. You know, I wasn't doing this every day like you have for the last 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, and you're expecting me to that I just left the school to be able to do that that quickly. So, you know, my opinion is that's why, as mentors, we need to have that patience, which, unfortunately, us, as technicians, are of very, very short witted when it comes to patients. You know, we didn't have that patience with these kids. And then first monitor and see how good they are before we make a decision on cutting them loose when they mess up, because they will mess up.
It's not about reprimanding, about, what the hell were you doing? Didn't you go to school? It's about what could you have done to prevent this, right? And I still do this with, with my guys. We, if we have a car that we screw up on after we get it fixed, then we'll have a zoom call and be like, all right, what did, what step did we miss here? What could we have done different? So we didn't have this situation happen, right? And then most of the time, they'll say, like, oh, I could have ran this test, or I could have done this, or I could have done that. And it's not me coming down on, like, you need to be doing this. Cool. Like, perfect. What you just said, we'll go ahead and put that in, make sure next car that comes in, you run that particular check, right. And I think that's where that issue comes into play. These older text.
And, and Foreman's have that expectation, like, you're gonna come in as an eight x. Like, dude, he just got out of school, right? He knows the fundamentals. He knows how to do all this stuff. He might be a little bit slow, but he's gonna get it done, right. And that, I think that's where we haven't. We're having issues because I've seen it with some of my students that have left. And then I had one in particular who took my electrical class, and then he got hired at an electrical shop. And while he was at the shop, he called me up.
He's like, dude, my guy is pissed. I was like, why? He's like, he doesn't want me to use a volt meter. He doesn't want me to use the scope. He doesn't. And I was like, okay, well, two things here. One, he's not going to change. And two, you got to find another shop. He's like, what do you mean? Yeah.
If that guy is so stuck on just pulling parts and throwing parts, you didn't spend all this time and money in my class to go do that shit. So he found another shop, and then I get a call from about two weeks later. This guy was jolly as can be. He's like, bro, I'm at the shop. This guy's actually letting me use my scope. He. We're using volt meters. He's like, I just fixed this one electrical issue.
I was like, you see the difference? And I actually got to speak to him about a couple months ago. So it's been over a year, and he still at that shop, and now he's running on his own. So that's where I kind of say, well, you know, if that expectation level between an entry tech that has the. The fundamentals to a foreman and mentor needs to be equal, and we need to see that side of it also.
Yeah. When you brought the thing about patience, this industry is famous for that, for not having enough patience, right. Whether it's the amount of car count that we try to push through or the time constraint, whatever you want to call it. And I think it's just. It's almost the nature of the industry, and it's the same. Like, I'll tell you, I misdiagnosed that car yesterday because I didn't spend enough time on the cardinal, and it just went back to, I get in my flat rate brain of, like, I want to diagnose it in 25 minutes or whatever it is. And if I spent more time on the car and even like, and I'm not for this, but if I had just decided that I didn't have a damn clue what I was looking at on the scanner and I went and pulled the valve cover off in 15 minutes, like you can on that car, I'd have had my answer. Right, right.
But it's so we all need more patience. We all need to slow down. We all need to take a breath. And then for the people that are listening, on the business side of it, it's okay to charge an hour if somebody spent 45 minutes on something, because you're going to need that 15 minutes on the next one. And I say that in a lot of episodes, but people, you need to start hearing and understanding it, because that's where the 15 minutes can come from at the end of the week that you burnt in the hole. Because it's like, you know, when I see something written up and it's like, it's sold for 0.7 of an hour to check something out. I go, where do we even get that number? Like, it doesn't make any sense to me because it's like, let's do it for half an hour, and that's all the time we spend. Or let's do it an hour.
Like, I don't get the .7 thing, but it comes back to. They're looking at it from a dollar amount now, right? And 150 is too much. 75 is not going to be enough time. I'm just going to do it at 100. And I'm like, that's not how this works. It's not how this works, right? Like, we had a complaint. I've had two this this week, complaints of smells and dash. One was, it had been freshly undercoated, right? So you don't get rust there.
But, I mean, undercoating is a thing here. So this guy, first time, he'd undercoated the car, and then he drives the car and he's like, I had a smell in the dash. And it also had. So that was the same one that had some brake issues. So I'm not. I drove it for 20 minutes and I didn't smell anything abnormal, right? And then I inspect the car, put it on the rack. I'm like, oh, this thing's really wet with. With undercoin.
Maybe that's what it is. Call the customer. No, I don't know if that's it or not. It could be. He says, come to think of it, I just had that done. And then I went on this long road trip, and I'm like, well, when did you smell it? He's like, well, we've been driving about 90 minutes before I started at highway speeds. He's like, yeah. I said, so you understand I can't duplicate that in terms of getting out and driving to, you know, almost 2 hours away from here.
I turn back to see if I can get the smell. This is what I think it might be. Now, we're not going to obviously wash the underbody of his car off to try and get the crown. We're just going to have to tell him, unfortunately, it will burn off. It'll just take some time. The other one was a 2014 escape, one of the trashiest cars. I'll send you pictures of it. She says, I have smoke coming from the dash.
Smoke, eh?
Oh, shit.
So I get into it, and there's enough dog hair, wet dog hair in the car to build another dog. And I'm like, I don't know how you smell or see anything but. Cool story, bro. So I go and drive the car. I go to drive it because I drive it. Doesn't matter if a car comes to me for an oil change, I drive the car. It's just the way. It's the way I'm trained from the dealership days.
If you want to sell work, you got to drive the car. So I drive the car. I get down the street, and it's just thumping like it's got a flat tire, tpms lights on, but lots of stuff have tpms lights on, and it's because it doesn't, you know, it's got the spare tire on it or whatever. You know, tpms sensor hasn't worked in ten years. Cool. I come back, and it's got a flat tire. I'm thinking I look at the other three tires, wire braid coming through every tire, and then this one new tire is the one that's flat. Cool.
All right, so I get through the whole thing, and what's happening is, like, I left the hood and the cowl inlet ducts where the fresh air is supposed to come in the car plug solid with leaf litter and everything else, right? So. And then I go looking further, and it's like, also, the AC drain is plugged. And she says, so I call. So they call the customer up to give her information. She says, well, yeah, I was also getting water spilling on my feet once in a while, too. Where's that coming from? Well, the AC drain doesn't drain. They're not working. Like.
So it was. It was a hole to do. To get the AC drain to clean, we put some valvoline has a chemical that you put in the dash, and it cleaned some of the stuff off of the evap core. And, like, it was a lot of pressure washing, essentially, just like. And they asked me, well, what? Why did it happen? I said, the car's just filthy. Like, we can't do anything about that. You have to keep the car somewhat clean. There's a baby seat in the back of it.
Oh, man.
Oh. I say to them, I said, so it needs a tire repair on the left rear. It really needs three tires for sure, depending on what the. When we break the tire down and look at the tire, it may need four tires. And I said, and, you know, this is what it needs for the AC fix or the vent smell. She doesn't fix the tire. Doesn't fix the tires. Just fix the AC vent smell.
No shit.
Serious. So, you know, I'm like, what do I do? About the tire. Well, she says, just put some air in it. She's going back to who put the tire on to fix the tire up? And I'm like, wow.
Yeah, this is the.
I keep saying, oscar, when we're trying to change this industry, and, you know, I've had these conversations before, everybody wants to be about, we need to fix the tech problem. And I'm going to say it again, I'm going to probably say it in a bunch more episodes in the future. You're all going to get sick of me saying it. We have to fix the business owner side mentality of this industry if you're ever going to fix the tech problem, because I guarantee the boys and girls out there, the young layup men and women that want to be techs, they genuinely want to fix the cardinal. Yeah, they really do. You've seen it, you know, but if we can't figure out how to convey to the customer exactly our value, what we're worth and what it's going to take so that we can then sell the time it takes to do it, we might as well just all quit now and let the oe's take over, which is exactly what they're trying to do.
Yep.
And if people that are listening to this podcast, if you're not a tech, you're an owner, listen to what I'm saying here. You have to sell this value, sell this time if we're going to fix this problem. The tech competency, there's more resources available out there right now than there's ever been in our lives to bring the techs up on competency. It will come up, I guarantee it. I've already seen happen. The people that are still in the bays now that are my age, Oscar's age, we're starting to mentor the young people properly because we're starting to get away from that. Yeah, flat rate mentality. I can't, you know, gatekeeping, whatever term you want to use, we're starting to move away from that.
That will take care of the competency side. We've got it. But if you cannot start to explain to the customer what it is we have to do to fix their car and they won't get on board with doing it. Right. Let them walk out the door.
Yeah.
Take your initial inspection fee, take your, shake their hands, we'll do whatever you want to do, let them walk out the door. Because collectively, if we all start to get closer to being the same page, there's going to be nobody left to fix the stupid car. And guess what? The customer will have to come back and play ball the way that needs to be done. We cannot keep cutting corners and doing the bullshit that they're trying to say Oscar did to fix cars. We won't have to do that anymore. There's more than enough cars out there that need to be fixed properly. We just can't seem to make it work fiscally because we're so freaking scared to tell the customer, it's going to cost $250 because they say the guy down the street will do it for 175. Why the hell are you in front of me then? If I'm 250, he's 175.
You should already be down there.
Yeah.
The next one down there to him at 175, it's just B's. It's B's. And, you know, it's b's. Don't fall into the trap of it.
No, absolutely, man. I always share the example when I tell people this. You don't want to charge for diags? No. All right, cool. So when the tool truck shows up for their tool bill, tell them, I'm not going to pay you this week because I didn't charge for any of that. See what he tells you? Right? And then. Oh, that's different. It's not different.
The same thing. You're paying for a tool, you're paying for training, all that. You need to get compensated for that. Right. And like, I always use a medical example because it kind of relates to us. You know, when you go to a physician, your general practitioner, who's more expensive, them or cardiologists. Right. And then they'll say, oh, cardiologist.
What's the same shit in the automotive industry?
Yeah.
If you're well educated and you. Your. Your talent shows for a specific part in the automotive industry, you should be charging more. Why? Because you're worth more. You're a specialist in that area. Right. Just like a normal physician to a cardiologist. It's the same thing right now.
And unfortunately, like you were saying, some shop owners just. It just doesn't go through their head and fuck, man. You know, I always look at. And I, you know, I have help from, like, rick White and stuff. So, you know, I'm pushing to make my shop that much better myself. My process is that better because I've worked at other people's shops, and I'm like, when I open my shop, I'm not doing that shit, you know? And I have set financial goals that I want to reach for all my employees and all that stuff because I know that, like, you know, the. The saying goes, is service the many for service to many, leads to greatness. So the more people that I can get to where they want to be, sooner or later, hopefully I'll reach where I want to be.
So that, that's kind of how we run things here at the shop to try to help everybody.
I love it. No, in closing, you mentioned tools. I gotta ask, do you own an icon reg set yet?
No, but after watching all this stuff, I am gonna go buy some.
Harbor freight doesn't sponsor the podcast. If they want to reach out and do it, I'd be more than happy to. They're $120 on sale right now for $69.99.
Well, I have the membership, so hell yeah, I'm going to go pick some up.
I might drive across the border and get some tomorrow. I'm just debating on it. But at the end of the day, that whole conversation, I don't want to call it an argument, but that whole spectacle that they made out of it has been fantastic because, I mean, it's gotten so much traction. Sherwood's loving it. It's great for the. It's pumping the algorithm up, and, I mean, I want to. So in closing, my young apprentice that I have, I buy some tools when I see them on sale, and I bring them in and I give them to him, and I'm like, okay, zack, I'm not saying this is a gift. I'm not saying like that.
You know, I want you. When you start to make some extra money, you know, this was, this was a set of axle nut sockets that was on sale for a $100. Here you go. Right? This is a set of pliers that's like a chinese knockoff of a nipex. And I'm not saying they're as good as the Nipex I have. But you have no pliers at all. So here's two player pliers. They were $10.
If I never see a penny back from that, it's totally fine, right? But I just, like, I don't want to see him struggle and take longer to do a job because he doesn't have the tools. So in closing, this whole icon thing has been great, because I like, if a young person can afford to get some really good wrenches, and they are good wrenches, there's no question about it, for $70 versus $700. And you're gonna go like, that don't cost that much. In Canada, they cost $700. I've got a set in my drawer. I bought them years ago, but they've gone up in price. They're $700 for the snap on crap. And that's like, to pay cash for them to walk off the truck.
If you add in, if you're. If I'm rolling onto my RA account and I'm paying interest on it, they're way more than $700. And that's the other part that's not even coming into this conversation is like, that person go by them at harbor freight for $70 tomorrow, no interest. Unless, of course, they're putting on their credit card. That's their own deal. I don't care.
Yep.
If we're going to start shaming people or shoot their mouths off online because they're going to argue that it's a better wrench if that person gets the job done in that bay tomorrow with that set of wrenches. That's all that matters. And that the hate needs to stop.
Yep.
Needs to stop. The guys that I've seen guys with a bucket of tools go out on a service call and fix multiple trucks in a day with a bucket of tools. Two buckets of tools. But it was literally like. And there was no snap on wrenches in there. There was no like. It was. And that guy is one of the sharpest mechanics to this day that I've still ever met.
And he goes around with, like, you know, because it's. It's up here. It's not.
What's.
What's the brand that's on the tool, so.
Exactly.
Everybody. Oscar, buddy, I love you. I wish.
Likewise, brother. Thank you so much.
I wish I could see you at Asta this year. You were telling me you're not going to make it, but I'm going to. I'll be at SEMA in Apex. I don't know if you're going to make. Well, then we're going to. You and I in Vegas, Oscar, are going to have some fun.
Yes, sir. Yeah, I'll definitely be there.
Yeah. Thank you for coming. Doing this on a Friday night, man, and it's like, I'm so. I was so glad to see you come back online.
Thank you, brother. I appreciate that.
I knew from the moment that somebody said something to me. I said, there's no friggin way they're gonna be able to. That Oscar would have ever deviated from the way he should do things, because that's just Oscar. It's not Oscar.
Thank you, brother.
I mean, I'm proud to know you. Proud to be. Thank you, bro.
Likewise, man. Likewise.
I'm excited to see you soon. So thank you. Thank you for coming on and listening. You know, I'm looking forward to seeing everybody that's coming to Asta and apex and Sema. And you know I love you all. So thank you very much, people. We'll talk to you soon.
We'll see you guys.
Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASA group and to the change in the industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing ten millimeter. And we'll see you all again next time.
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