Why Does Your Best Tech Leave With TobaTech

If you have the skills, you can have the career you want. So for me it's like I can make good money and still have my. Just my 8 to 5, right? I don't need to worry about working weekends, I don't need to worry about being away from my family and all this kind of stuff because I know that I can get paid a lot of money doing what I'm doing, just doing eight to five.

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another exciting episode of the Jade Mechanic podcast. We're kicking into the new year here with somebody that's a really good friend of mine and he's been on before a couple times. And if you're seeing the title of this, we don't want it to start off with being something negative, but it is. It's a cautionary tale about for if people are wondering why your top technician might leave and you immediately say it's about money, we're both here to tell you that we've left jobs in the past, my guest and myself, for not necessarily for money. Now I've left a lot of jobs because they wanted me to leave, which is good. But I've always gone on to bigger and better every friggin time. So that's not a. I don't see it as a negative.

But today's guest, my good Brother, Mark Elliott, Mr. Toba Tech World famous by now. Mark, how's it going bro?

Oh, it's going pretty good. I'm just winding down the end of my two week vacation and starting my new job in the morning, so.

Yeah, yeah, well it's recording on Sunday night here guys, and Mark's pretty excited. He's starting in a new shop tomorrow morning at 8am and in very cold. I call it Portage, Portage, Portage, Portage. Yeah. So which is in Manitoba. Very cold there right now. So isn't it marked?

You're freezing. Actually, you know what though? For Winnipeg, it's been a super mild winter. Like we've had a few days where it's gone down to minus 35 with the windshield. But we have, we, we haven't broken like minus 30 without windshield this year, which is pretty wild. Like that's like there was no minus 40s with wind chill yet. So hey, that's a win for me. Yeah.

And see it's so funny because like I had Sherwood on last week, right? When he even talks about like below he starts like shivering, right? He goes, oh, I can remember coming up there in April, he says, and being frozen because he used to take Sherwood the third up for goalie camp up around Barry Toronto area.

So, yeah, I just, I just listened to your podcast with him last, last night or the day before.

So he's, he's familiar a little bit with Canadian winter. But like, we don't call April Canadian winter. Right? Like it's done by April, you know.

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, and you know what? Like, for me, I, I handle the cold way better than I handle the heat. So talking these guys down south, they're like, oh, it's 80 degrees right now. I'm like, yeah, have it.

I can always, I can always layer up. You know, I can always turn the heat up in the shop. I cannot get. My shop's still not air conditioning. So I mean, I can't get that, that heaviness out of the air when it's that stinking hot. Don't want it.

No. Like, even when we went out to down to Asta there and it was all humid and hot, and these guys are like, oh, it's not even a hot season yet. I'm like, this is all I can handle, guys.

Yeah, you and I are dying, right? And everybody else, like, what'? Big deal. Like, yeah, you don't need the AC on. It's November. Right. Like, so kind of. Mark, you and I, we've been, we've been pretty good friends for a little while now. But I mean, I met you at asta not this past year, but the year before.

Yeah.

And you brought your boss at the time with you and you. And it was your first show like that and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, leading up to this past November, you weren't able to. To make asta.

Yeah.

And that's kind of a decision on your boss at the time, not to make the, the trip. I can respect that. How did it make you feel when you weren't able to attend?

You know what it, it was, it was the thing that broke the camel's back for me.

Right.

This year has been going through a lot of changes, but anyways, we'll stick with the ASTA thing. When we left Asta, like, you guys saw us like, you saw us there. Like, our eyes were like, poof, massive. Right? We were just like blown away. We're like, yeah, this is it. You know what I mean? This is what we need. We're even talking about shutting the shop down, bringing all the guys, all this kind of stuff. So in my head I'm all like, this guy gets it.

This guy's like all the other shop owners that just get it that we need this level of training. This is awesome. Like, this is life changing. Met all you guys, they got a good network. I went to courses I could never do do out here. I was like, this is sick. We're gonna do this every year. It's gonna be so cool.

And as I was leading up to asta, I'm all, you know, getting pretty excited. It was also my 40th birthday, so I'm like, oh, this is gonna be such a good time. I'm gonna get beat the boys with my 40th, you know, and yeah, I was just like, he. He also went through a big change where he's bought another shop. Right. So when he came back and we sat down for dinner and stuff, I'm like, hey, you know, ass is coming up or are we going this year? And he's like. He's like, no, I don't know if we're gonna do it this year and stuff. I'm like, oh, okay, Right.

I was kind of like, put off a little bit. And then I thought about it. I'm all like, well, you know what? Funny enough, my Content Creations actually, like, opened up a new door for me on Facebook and I started making money. So I was like, you know what? I can afford to get myself out there. I can pay lodge, I can. I can get a flight out there. You know, I can just take it out of my Facebook money. No big deal.

It doesn't come out of my budget at home. Right. So I came, I just went up to him and I said, hey, here's a deal. I can get myself out there. I'll pay for my flight. Just pay for my ticket to the conference, which is what, 700 U.S. so maybe a thousand bucks?

Yeah.

And he said, no. Great. And that's when it really, like, I was like, what? I'm like, how did it go from, like, you totally understanding this to, like a hard no? And it's not like I didn't even ask for any other training in the city.

Yeah.

At all the year. But that year, because I always assumed we were going out to asta.

Yeah. So just to kind of put some context here for people that maybe aren't familiar with the first couple episodes we've done with Mark in the past. Mark works at an okay Tire. His boss's name is Champ. Champ's the owner of that particular location of that franchise. I met Champ and Mark both when they came down to, you know, North Carolina. Seemed like a very good, very quiet spoken guy, but seemed, you know, like he was getting it like what the, what the event really meant to, you know, moving your business forward and, and all that kind of stuff. Because, you know, it's a tire shop and I don't want to run down a tire shop.

But Mark, like, you know, you're famous for the minty Manitoba St. And you know, the, the cars that are questionable, like what a lot of us maybe wouldn't bother to work on, come into your, your store because they're there for tires. Right. And they're there for repair and, and Manitoba is tough on vehicles, guys. It's, I mean, Canada, period. But Manitoba is really bad. They love that salt. Like they salt it like it's fries at McDonald's.

So I mean, there's a lot of potholes.

The potholes are something else out here.

Yeah. So it, it really hammers the vehicle. So Mark's famous for a lot of stuff that looks really ragged and a lot of us would maybe turn our nose up and go, no, I'm not working on that. But Mark's, that's just the day to day. That's what you guys do. Right. So when we, when we saw them down there, it seemed really cool because I got that feeling that Champ was going to be more coming on board with the idea of what a lot of the forward thinking, you know, shops are. Right.

Mark? And, and you said he bought a second location.

Yeah. So him and, him and his business partner bought actually the biggest shop in Moose Jaw. So it's a big, big operation. And yeah, you know what? That's. Everything changed once, once he stepped away from that business. Right. Which in a sense I always knew it was going to change a bit and stuff. I just didn't think it was going to change in the way it did.

Right, right. And that's kind of like, you know, after Asta, everything in the shop was great. I was loving my job. I loved working at okay Tire.

Yeah.

And then once he stepped away, it's, it's when the wheels really started falling off a little bit for me. Yeah.

Because you were, you guys were getting to a little bit more diag. Not that you hadn't done diag before, but you were bringing home a lot of the skills that you'd learned. You know, you got a scope out and all that kind of stuff. And we're doing a lot of stuff that traditionally some people wouldn't look at a tire shop and think, hey, that can actually get done there. But I mean, I was proud of you because I was seeing you really develop your skills. And you know, Chuck and I were talking all the time about like, you know, just because you see something out front doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a guy like Mark in there that's a really super competent, qualified, you know, pushing himself, technician. It was good to see.

Well, you know, and that's the whole funny part about the whole okay tire. So when Champ came in, he had asked me my, my opinion on changing the shop over to an okay tire and right away said, well, I'm gonna probably go find a new job.

Yeah.

And he kind of was like set back. I'm like, I don't want to work for a tire shop. Yeah. So the reality, I mean, you, me, or whatever, we're going to look for a new job, we're not going to go hand in our application at a, at a Firestone or a cow tire. It's just, we're just not. Yeah. And you know, funny enough, part of that is another. Another one of those things that kind of pushed me out of that business because, yeah, the first year, I wouldn't say we were full fledged tire shop anymore.

It's still. Right. We're still like the St. Anne's Car Clinic. Small, small shop in the city. But man, like this year, like really saw it starting to turn into a tire shop. Right. I'm doing a lot more tires, a lot more tire repairs and this.

And I'm just like, it's not what I want to do, man, with my life.

Yeah. Now, is that a franchise by franchise decision? Because I know, you know, I know some okay stores do it where it's a free repair. They don't charge a customer for a tire repair. Like a plug.

No, no, we charge for every tire repair. It's a friend. Like. So the okay Tire, like, business model is actually a pretty good one. It is a franchise, but it's all independently owned.

Right.

You don't really have to, like, there's like a set of rules that you have to kind of go by. Obviously, they, they want you to obviously not tarnish the name of okay Tire. Right. So whenever there's a bad review or somebody calling head office, obviously the big wigs come and talk to us or whatever. But for the most part, it's all independently owned. You get to run it how you want to run it.

Right. Okay.

Just because one okay tire does something doesn't mean that this okay Tire does that same thing.

Okay. I wasn't sure because our friend Norm Giselle at, you know, technician of the stars or mechanic of the Stars, we know him on Tick Tock. He runs it. Okay. So I, you know, and, and I know that that's his policy is the free tire repair thing. He does that for, you know, customer relations and stuff. But I wasn't sure if that was something you guys did.

No, that's just a him thing for sure.

But it is, it is. Tire business is a heavy business in terms of like, it's, it's good margins, you know, it does drive customers and it's probably, you know, it's probably more effective, I think, long term then, you know, kind of the loss leader oil change method, you know, because you're getting more than just a, an 80 oil change. You're getting maybe a thousand bucks on, you know, a set of tires, right side tires.

And you get brakes, you get front end, you get all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it does bring that kind of, kind of business in. Right?

Yeah.

And don't get me wrong, being the head tech, I wasn't doing as many tires as everybody else, but I still did more than I wanted to.

Yeah, yeah, I feel that especially being.

Especially being a four bay shop. Right.

Yeah.

I remember when he first bought the business and he said, hey, we're thinking of changing it to an okay tire. I'm like, I don't want to do more tires, I want to do less tires. He's like, oh, don't worry, we're gonna have a tire guy. I'm like, it's not realistic for a four day shop. You can't just like, just have these dedicated guys. It's just not possible. Right. It's just the reality of it.

Yeah, yeah. So he bought the second shop and then you kind of had a, a transition within your location, right?

Yeah, yeah. So the, so the whole thing was, you know what, and you know what I'm gonna say out front. A lot of this too was my own perceptions of what I thought I wanted out of the trade. I'm not gonna say there, it's, it's all on him. No, it's far from just on him. A lot of it was me in my head, I thought, hey, I wanna, I wanna run the shop, I want to be the manager. I wanna, you know, still be in the shop and all this kind of stuff. And yeah, once he stepped away, that was the thing is like, everything got put on me.

Right. Because one of the most unfortunate things he did do was he put his brother up front to run the front counter. Very inexperienced. And it's fine if you have another service advisor There.

Yeah.

But without having that other service advisor there, it. It gets really hard because I'm the head technician. I'm the head diag guy. I'm making sure all the jobs are going out the door properly. But then I'm also calling the customers on the hard, hard sell jobs. I'm helping him find parts. I'm answering the phone. In between all this, plus dealing with all the BS of, you know.

And running a shop. Yeah, running a shop. And you know what? One of the hardest things for me, which I never really realized was having that conversation with a customer where they're like, well, why didn't you check this? Or when? And in my head, I'm like, if I was fixing it, I would have done that.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So it's so hard for me to, like, you know, explain to a customer these mistakes that I would have never made.

Right. And. And, you know, we see that all this time a the conversations that come up. And it's very easy a mark to just say, oh, well, you just need to revamp your process. But, I mean, we can run out of time sometimes before we ever get the process even updated. Not to say we get it finalized. So it's the same thing. It's like your diagnostic process and mine are different.

Right.

Or could be different. Then you have other people in the shop and you're saying, hey, you know, we finally got to it. But it took, you know, two hours or something like that. And somebody's saying, why didn't you do that first? And you're thinking as you're making the call to the customer, yeah, I would have checked that first.

Yeah.

That's a different experience. Right.

You're like a simple thing. Like, you know, like, hey, it's a brake check. And then all of a sudden, the guys will come back to go, hey, now it needs a caliper.

Yeah.

Why the heck did we not check this before? Because for me, I worked in a brake shop for a while, so brakes was. Is one of these things that, you know what if you look through the wheel and needed pads, you don't go, hey, it needs pads and rotors. Sell the job. You go, hey, let's do a proper brake inspection.

That's right. Yeah.

That way we pull the calipers, have a look. We sell the jobs complete. Because we all know when you go back to the customer afterwards, it creates distrust. It's harder to sell. You might have to discount the part. You might have to discount the labor. You might have to, you know, Eat a caliper, maybe, whatever it is. Yep.

So this is where I had a problem because I had a really good process of not making these kind of mistakes.

Yep.

So then when the customer's like, well, why didn't you guys check the caliper? That seems pretty.

So let me ask you, there was. Was your process, though, not really just adopted as the norm in the shop, as it should have been, because you the lead tech.

Yes. But it doesn't mean that people follow it just because I. Right. Whereas, like, when I was in the shop, 24. Seven in the back, it was easier for me to catch those mistakes. Right, right. It was easy for me to go, hey, you know, I'll get my apprentice on there and go, hey, did you check the caliper? Hey, did you do this? Hey, did you do that? But when, you know, in a. Let's say in a day, there's 20 cars that come in, and 17 of them I've touched.

Plus I've answered phones and stuff. I'm gonna miss some. Some of those questions that I. I normally ask. Right.

Yeah.

So this is where I was kind of getting burnt out, in a sense, was I wasn't able to service my. The customers the way I. I liked, because as a brand, we were building up a really quality brand because I made sure of it. We charge accordingly, but I made sure that we're putting out quality work. So when these. All these small, stupid mistakes are happening that was like, just making us look bad. It. I took it personally.

I had a hard time with that.

Because you feel like then maybe the team's either not respecting you or they're not listening to you, or there's a communication breakdown, some of which is not ever the case. It's just, you know, like you said, you're trying to get through 20 cars. You're trying to. I would see it at this shop, and I'm like you. I'm always like. People call it nosy, but I mean, I'm noticing what every. Every ticket that's there, what they're there for. Right.

And especially, like, if it's there for a diag thing. And I've been down that road before on a particular car, whether they want to interject it or not into their process, I'm gonna put myself there.

Yeah.

Because, like, I'm very much. Somebody said to me a long time ago, when the customer leaves and the car isn't the way they thought it should have been, it isn't right. It comes back, they don't remember that Mark worked on the car or Jeff worked on the car. They were, remember that that shop worked on the car. That's what they tell everybody. So you have a responsibility to always think like your reputation is on the line and everybody else's reputation on the line. And that sounds like, you know, kidding, Jeff. That's just a given.

But I mean, it's really. Is that so I would always try to uphold everybody else in the room with me to the same standard that I was at, which was, you know, with Diag being my strong thing. If I see you're looking at an oxygen sensor fault on a car and they're not known to have an oxygen sensor problem or especially multiples, I'm going to interject and tell you there's probably going to be like, you got to look at this firing ground right here. Right. Like that's what I'm going to be doing. Some guys didn't like it, but, you.

Know, well, especially being that small shop and I was the face of okay tire and with the tick tock and the stuff like I like the work that's coming out of there was directly put on me.

Yeah.

Is it a fault? Is. Did I kind of create a false situation there where maybe I put too much of my own personal, you know what I mean, face on the product? Too much that when I tried to step back from that, it was really hard for me to do it because, yeah, I can't control that and now I feel like it's directly affecting me.

Yeah, but you were bringing work into the shop based on how you're putting yourself out there on social media, you know what I mean? You were responsible for it.

It's.

It's a heavy cross to bear, man, for sure. So his brother came from no experience at all with, with the automotive sector, eh?

Yeah, just like him. So basically we, we went through a couple service advisors and there was always something Champ didn't like about him. Right. Right. So even when we were in Asta, we had, we had a guy named Jason. He wasn't too bad, but obviously he had his faults, so he did. So Champ decided, you know what, I'll bring my brother in, he can learn it and stuff like that. So he worked up with Champ up front, I think for four or five months beforehand before he kind of took off.

But, you know, it was also one thing, you know, I, I said to Champ was like, your brother isn't you, Champ. I'm gonna, I'll give it to him. He learned the business fast. Yeah, he was really Good at what he did. The customers loved him. He was. Had no problem talking to the customers, all this kind of stuff, right? So. And the thing was, Champ always had somebody else up there to help them, right? Where I didn't.

I was there to fill in the blanks, in a sense, but I didn't have to, like, spend half my. My time up there with the small piddly stuff, Right. I mean, there was times his brother. I heard his brother sell a job, and I'm like. And the customer said, no. And I called them right back, and I was like, hey, you know, and I explained it properly and. And sold it because, yeah, I was like, you know, so that was my biggest. Like, when I left the okay tire, that was the biggest thing I told Champ, I'm all like, get him trained.

Get him trained, probably. And that was one of my biggest pushes for. For Asta. And I said to him, I said, champ, Mike, I know you don't want to go to ASTA this year, but you should send me and your brother. He would benefit from that like crazy. And that's when he said, no, you know what, Mark? Just go find some videos from online and train him up. I'm like, so you want me to train him on top of everything else I'm doing?

I remember you telling me that. Yeah. And I was.

So, again, it was all these little. These little things. And you know what, for me was like, I was already sitting there, you know, like four months into this and going, man, is this, like, that's what I want for the rest of my career? Right? And then Champ would come back and he's all like. He would say things like, oh, you know what? If he's like, I want to pay you more, but I can't pay you more until I buy another shop and put you there and you can run the whole show. And I'm all thinking about my head. I'm like, do I want more responsibility? Like, I don't even know if I want what I got now. Like, do I? You know, and, you know, it was all these things. It was so.

It was a mixture of those things. And then, like, I said, the Asta and just. Just bringing so much stress home that I never brought home before.

Right?

Yeah, right. Like, I. I enjoy figuring out the hard issues and the. And, you know, fixing the cars and all this kind of stuff like, that gives me joy. This wasn't giving me joy.

Yeah, I'm the same man. Like, I can. I can. I can really get into the diagnostic process and really Enjoy that. And it doesn't stress. I mean, I get stressed, but it doesn't stress me the same way. No, as the personnel issues and the, you know, the, the different attitudes and stuff like that that I can't fix, or I can't just, you know, go in and. And put a new part on and fix it.

That's what always stressed me, you know what I mean? I never had enough patience left over at the end of the day after I stressed about the car and then did my thing, talking about the industry, which I've done for over a decade now. I didn't have any patience left at the end of the day to go in and train other people on how to do their job. Right. Because I don't. I'm not good at training people. I'm just like, I think you should watch and do by example, you know, I can't tell you. Just pay attention. Shut up.

That's my method. Yeah.

Whereas, like, I love the training aspect when it comes to the apprentices. Like, I love helping people out and showing them things and. Or if I see something, hey, guys, come check this out and I'll show them a new testing procedure. You know what I mean? Like, even challenge them and all that. I love that aspect of it. But it was like the. The front office bit's just not for me, man.

No. The. With champs brother. Is the language a problem or is he. Is it.

Not really. It's just the confidence is selling and not really understanding the part and. You know what I mean? It's just like.

Yeah, because for. For listeners that aren't familiar, Mark's boss and his brother, they're. Where are they from? Pakistan.

India. India. Yeah.

So, you know, there's. How do I say that the right way there? It's a different culture. I can say that for sure. Mark knows exactly what I'm talking about. Right. And in the way that they do business and the way that they. They. You know, and sometimes I would sit back and wonder with Mark, like, is that a big problem? And I guess it wasn't.

No, it wasn't. Because you know what? Champ put me above everybody else and he always would. Yeah, I. But like. But like any family member, you always. You always kind of turn a blind eye to the ability. So. One thing I loved about Champ is he never kept an employee that was weak for longer than need to.

He was always good at that. It was just like we'd hire somebody if they didn't work out after a week out the door, you know what I Mean, it's just like. But when it came to his brother, right, it was, it was different, which I get it. But you know what? Then put the people in place to train him properly. And that's why I said to him like, get a good service advisor and get him to shadow him. Right. He can't be the top guy up front right now. He's not there.

So when, when he wasn't willing to train him and, and see how much that just him up front hurt his business. Yeah, it was another kind of red flag to me. Right. So unfortunately whence Champ stepped back and went to the other shop, there was a lot of over promising under delivering.

Yeah.

Right. So when he was there, I'm telling you man, he was the best boss that I've had in a long time. It was great. We were building an awesome business. He was all for it. He's buying us all the best equipment.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, when Toba Tech customers were coming in, if they're first time customers, he was throwing me a bit of extra cash, all this kind of stuff. There was little perks here, perks there. He'd send me here, send me there. Like, he just like did a lot for me, right. But of course once, once he stepped back, all that was kind of getting rolled back and I could, I, I don't know, I could see the writing on the wall.

Right.

And you know, even the perks of the TOBATEC customers kind of started dwindling away. Right. And I had to laugh because right before I left, you know what, our smoke machine kind of died. He did finally get a good smoke machine. But I laugh because our smoke machine died. And I use that smoke machine probably once or twice a week. The amount of evap leaks and intake leaks that we deal with, that, that machine's made us money tenfold. Oh, we probably had, we probably had that old OTC smoke machine for 20 years.

Yep.

Right. And so he goes on Amazon and buys 150Amazon one and I was like, just shaking my head. I'm like, are we going to that now? Like, yeah, right. So he gets this thing and it was hilarious because you would, you would use it and, and if you weren't paying attention, there was no stoppage of the amount of pressure put in the system. You'd have to stop it yourself. So anybody that's, that's not like an apprentice, he would just let that thing go poof, blow a seal out or something. So I told him, I'm like, man, just spend the money. So he did buy a nice Viper one before I left.

And, you know, but these, these things, I've been begging for a new tranny jack from them for a year and a half.

Yeah.

I'm like, are you guys waiting for a tranny to fall in one of us? Or I think we use them for.

Like, that's, you know, because if you and I know, right? If you go around and ask people in their career, how many times have they had a tranny come off the jack or. Or the jack tip over? Lots of guys are putting their hand up, right? And most of those guys, when they put their hand up, they had already said, the jack doesn't work. The jack's too small, the jack's like too old, blah, blah, blah. And. And they all knew about it. And then you drop one transmission and crack the housing or whatever you just.

Bought, or you hurt one of your employees and he's out for six. That's.

That's even worse thing, right? That's the even worse thing. Because when they start looking at your equipment that caused the injury, that's different than just being clumsy, right? When they look at the injury.

And that's why I had to laugh, because, you know what I mean? So a lot of the diag tools I had already, right? And so when I decided I'm leaving champs looking at what they're kind of shopping shop needs, and I had to laugh because he showed up the one day and he has the, the, you know, the power probe draw and the power probe little fuse thing. That's 605. $600?

Yeah.

And I'm like, we do maybe two, three pairs of draws in a year, but you won't buy us a four like a goddamn tranny jack we use all the time. You're gonna buy this that would barely even use.

And let's. I don't mean any disrespect to anybody else, but I mean, when you walk out of there, how many people are actually going to get the draws solved? That's not a mark on your.

On you.

But you know what I mean, right? Like, you're the kind of guy that would like that challenge and everybody else would be like, you know, like, crap. Now I gotta. Because it's that, right?

Yeah. I know what I bring to the table there, right? I'm not, I'm not gonna go and say I'm the best guy out there and stuff like that, but I. I know what to bring to the table. I mean, even was it a month, a month and a half ago, I Reprogrammed my first module because that's something I want to kind of get into. And we had the Chevy come in and had to put a module in it. And I was like, you know what I want? I'm sure I can do it. Right. And I.

I don't know, I had an issue connecting or whatever it was. And then that night, I talked to Chuck. He's like, no, no, just go through the. I'm like, so I. I head down to the shop at. What was it, 10:30 at night, and I re. And I reflashed the freaking module and that. It all worked.

I was like, yeah. As I called you up at 11:30, I'm like, man, it's working. He's like, you're at the shop right now. I'm like, yeah. I couldn't. I couldn't shut my brain off. Like, I had to. Right.

There's not a lot of guys that are going to do that.

No.

Right. And.

And I'll tell you, Mark, that that's even a mindset that, as you age out, kind of sometimes goes away from some of us.

Yeah.

I was that way once. And now, you know, if it wasn't my own business, you probably wouldn't catch me at the shop anymore working that late at night because I. I've gotten better being able to just shut off, go to bed, you know.

Oh, for sure. And you know what? 90 of the time, I'm, you know, 8 to 5 and. But when it's like a new skill, I'm trying to know. This is where I get all jacked up. Right, Right. So it's. Yeah.

So that's kind of, you know, because you. And I see that all the time. Like, you're not as. As upfront in the groups as me, but you. You're seeing a lot of them. That absentee shop owner thing.

Yeah.

Now I realize that Champ's not absentee from the new business, but he's present.

He is, actually. No.

Oh, so he stepped away from that, too.

Yeah. So basically that. That place runs itself.

Wow.

Right. It was a. It was a. It's. It's a massive shop that was already kind of running itself. They just had to go in there and. And change some stuff up. And basically the owner that owned it didn't even change pricing since 2010.

Wow.

So. So it was one of these big shops where they're bringing a lot of revenue, but there's no profit. Yeah. So a lot of that had to change. But other than that, like. Yeah, he has a full Crew that runs the place. So they just went in and did. Spent their, I think five, six months getting to where they wanted.

What was Champs reasoning or thinking then for? Like, not when you kept saying to him, like, hey, your brother is, you know, needs a little bit more help and a little bit more training. And you know what? My way of seeming to get him up to speed is not working. Why didn't Champ come back and just take over the reins again?

I don't know. I know, like, he, like, Champ was back for two months before I left. Right. But now he's. He's gone again. Right. And then they bought another shop. So, so, so, so what they want to do is they just want to own a bunch of shops.

So does he have a brother to run the third shop?

No. So, but, so, but like, the. The crazy part is, so I left. I left on. On the 19th. So right now there's Nick, Dab and Spencer. No, Manny's in India for three months.

Oh, okay.

So he went back. He's Getting married actually, January 23rd. So pretty stoked for him, huh? Manny is definitely my. My Indian brother from another.

You guys are tight, man. You're tight.

Yeah, Yeah, I love that guy. He even came over for Christmas Eve and stuff like that, even though he's flying out to India the next day and. Yeah, yeah, I love Manny. Manny was super heartbroken when I left. Right.

You know, you've. You put a lot of time. You poured a lot into that young man. And, you know, I think he knows that he's not going to get that opportunity too many times in his career to be able to. To mentor with somebody like yourself. Right. That, yeah, you guys click and then you've got a lot to offer, a lot to learn. So.

See, I think that one of the hardest things about me stepping away was the guys and the customers for me. You know what?

Yeah. I could sense that when I talk to you.

For sure. I built a really good culture in the shop. Every guy there respected me. Right. If I asked somebody to jump 10ft, they would.

Yeah.

Right. Because they know that I'd be the first one to jump 10ft in the air.

Yeah.

And I was hard on them sometimes. Don't get me wrong. When, you know, there's a. Something that cost a lot of money or big mistake that shouldn't happen. I was hard on them, but I was always a strict but fair kind of guy. And all the guys had nothing but respect for me. Right. And yeah, and it's the customers.

For me, it's the customers. Because if there's a. If there's a lot of downfalls that come with the shop, they're all going to get affected. Right? And, you know, I said bye to quite a few of them. I know Champ got upset. He actually got mad at me the one day because I was talking with my customers and just telling them, hey, you know, I'm leaving in December type thing. And he's like, well, you think this is good for the business? I'm just letting them know, man. Like, firstly.

What the. The balls on that. Got asked that question, really, when you could rhetorically reiterate with, well, there's a lot of good things, like, a lot of things that haven't been good for the business that have happened here. Champ, like, let's be. Let's call a spade a spade here. Like, that's. And that, you know, this, again, this is not an ambush thing, but it's. That would just make me chuckle and laugh.

And I, like, you're better than me. Because I'd be telling everybody where I'm going and where to find me. That's what I would be doing. Right? Because I'm that way.

Like, it's all my good customers. I told them, yeah, so. And, you know, and some of them asked me. They're like, oh, how's the shot going to be? And you know what? I just. I was straight up. I'm like, hey, you know what? Champ's been taking care of you guys. You know, Nick's come in. He has a lot of experience.

I don't know what the repair is going to be like this where I'm at.

Yeah, we got to touch on that because there's been some stuff happening behind the scenes with some friends of mine and whatnot. And I mean, I think, you know, whether they want to talk about it yet or not, the customers begin to become familiar with who's actually wrenching on the vehicle, Right? Like, they know who the management is. They know who the owner is. They're very familiar with. Like, sometimes if they've been coming there a while, the name of the tech that's on the car, or if it's been an ongoing situation of solving different diagnostic processes or, you know, for you limping along. A lot of older cars, they get to know you at a very. They trust what you're going to say in terms of where to put the priorities and that kind of stuff. So when they find out that a tech like that is leaving, I don't like, you can say, well, yeah, Champ's, been looking after you for a long, long time, but like Mark's been looking after you for a really long time for sure.

You know, the technicians are. It's a team effort for sure, but it's the technicians that ultimately are in the bay are making a lot of the decisions. You know, I know what we mean by that. Right. Which is like, does it have to be done right now or can it. Can it wait?

Yeah.

You can't bring somebody necessarily champs brother out and he can make that decision. You and I can 100 do all day long. Right? That's funny that they put it that way. Do I really think that's good for the business?

You know, and, you know, I think he's going to have some problems coming down the road here. Like, I'm not going to go into super details, but there's a lot of stuff, a lot of internal stuff with a lot of the other guys that I know.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's gonna. He's gonna have some struggles. I think it's gonna be one of his biggest struggles to date in the. In the field. And where it's really hard for a guy like Champ is he doesn't have a background in this. So let's say if everybody walks out the door tomorrow, he's screwed. You can't just roll up his sleeves and go, hey, I'm gonna get in the bay and turn some wrenches.

And. Yeah. You know, and we talk about that in the group sometimes. And I forget that a lot of times when I'm talking to the groups and I challenge them in that. The very reality is a lot of these shop owners used to be right and go back out and they're. They're not. They're going to be slow and they're going to hurt, but they'll get the cars done. But, you know, how fast would Champ be doing on doing four set? Like a, you know, a set of four tires.

Like, it's. It'd be tough. The, the. And that's the thing. People that are listening. You know, we kind of call this when your star tech leaves, but when the leader leaves in the shop, who sometimes isn't the startech. But when the leader leaves, you've got a real problem that's starting that. Like, that's not like putting out a fire, but it's pretty damn close because people will start to really look at, you know, changes and.

And shortcomings that now are responsible and they're going to hold resentment to the person that's responsible for The. For the leader leaving. You know, I've seen it. Like I joke, I've left shops and then the turnover goes right through the roof after I leave, you know, And I wasn't always a designated leader, but I was like that guy that was involved, you know, I cared. I, I made sure to mentor the young people that were around me that wanted to be mentored. And so when I left, you know, it has an effect.

Oh, for sure. And like, I. And you know what? I, I hope Nick's gonna be successful there. I'm sure he's gonna hear this podcast stuff. And Nick, I really want you to be successful there, but I'll be straight up, me and Nick are two completely different people. Right.

Yeah. Now Nick is James brother.

No. Nick Gagno.

Okay. Yeah.

So we're two different. Completely different types of people. Nick hasn't seen the stress. The stresses yet of the job.

Yeah.

So even while I was there, all the guys were still coming to me for everything. Champ and Bim were still coming to me for everything. So Nick got to come in there for the, for that month and just be a kind of attack, you know, but like, starting tomorrow, it's all going to change.

Yeah.

Right. He's in the driver's seat. A lot's going to come down on him. And he's been in a, in, in the back a lot of times. And I, you know, a lot of people know him to be a bit grumpy and stuff like that. I hope he's, you know, gotten less grumpy in his older age. Yeah. But, you know, I, I think his eyes might get opened up to maybe this, this wasn't for me either.

Right.

I. I don't know. Yeah, we'll see. Because the reality is Champ is trying to make a position that very few shops have. Right. Because it's one thing being a shop foreman, it's one thing being a, A service advisor, manager. But when you're doing all those things at once.

Yeah.

But not getting paid like an owner.

That's right.

Right. And, and the funny part, and I'm going to tell you, you know, like we say, it's not, it's, you know, it's not always about money and stuff. So when. So basically, the shop that I'm going at, Marco, he called me up. He cold called me at the shop. I knew him. He was actually my manager when I was an apprentice.

Okay.

He didn't really remember that at the time.

Right.

I have a really funny story with that, actually. But. So he called me. But it's through Tick tock. Obviously, he sees what kind of technician I am. He's looking for a good guy for his shop. So. And he asked me.

He's like, oh, you're happy? What. What do you make for money? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And when he threw the number out, it's like, oh, I can make that. Just working on cars.

Yeah.

Right. Because in my head, I'm all like, the number that Champ gave me, the only way I could reach that is if I have a whole pile of stress on my shoulders. But this guy's offering me that with no stress.

Yeah.

And then I started thinking, I'm all like, well, is he. Is Champ underpaying me now? I think I. I think it is. And the funny part is, when I quit, then he was willing to pay me whatever I want. And the fun. But what's gonna be super funny about this is, so when we took Manny. When we took Manny from another shop, right? I forget what he's making at that shop. Let's say 20 bucks an hour.

It's gonna give. So Champ gave him 25. Right. And then Manny said, well, when he went back to that other shop, they were gonna give him 25. And Champ said to him, he's like, yeah, well, if they're gonna give you that now, why didn't they give you that before? So Champ taught me that yet.

And you're seeing me turn red here because, like. And. And then I don't. I. I'm almost gonna cuss. I don't know why that. Still. They still keep doing that.

You know what I mean? Like, why do they keep doing it? Because I just lose any respect for. Even if I take the money, right? Even if you. If you throw the money at the problem and I take the money. The respect is not there now, right. Because it's like he's just said, I'm gonna think I was really worth this all along.

Yeah.

You know, And. And that's. I can remember you telling me some stories about what Manny And. And, you know, Manny was always told, don't go work for. Yeah, I like Mark. Right. Because. And that's completely the opposite.

Right. Like, Manny's making more money than if Manny had stayed working where Manny was working.

Yeah.

So, you know, but that's. I never knew that the Champ's like, well, gee, like, why didn't they pay out? And then. Yeah. Sometimes owners put their foot in their mouth, man, really bad.

Oh, yeah.

So.

So, yeah. So when. When Marco called me up, it was just like, it really you know what? I didn't think about it at first, but it was, it was the timing because he called me and I'm like, no, I'm happy, you know, but he's like, well, if anything changes, let me know that next week is. When I talked to Champ about Asta and he said no.

Yeah.

I was like, all right, you know what, what I'm gonna do, I'm just gonna go talk to Marco. Let's go see what he has to offer, and stuff like that. And then when I sat down, I was like, well, this is kind of what I'd like. And this and this and this. And he's like, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I'm like. And I'm like, I don't want responsibility for six months. I don't want, I don't even want an apprentice.

I just want to get in the bay. And he's like, no problem, just let me know when you want to apprentice. He's like, whatever you want. You want training, go training, you want this? You.

Because you talked before, before any decision was made and, you know, you told me that there'd be more money, but you weren't set on going. Not at all. Like, you told me there'd be more money, but you weren't, you hadn't made the decision that that was why I was going. You were just there like, like we do sometimes, talking to other people about, you know, opportunities, because that's. And I remember having to talk with you where I said to you, and you know, I said, mark, you're not family. You have to remember that because it won't matter. It won't matter at a point what you really can do for the business. You're not family.

And, and you know what, what I'm trying to say here, people, is sometimes like, I've been through those kind of shops and I've watched it unfold and I kind of gave it to Mark as a cautionary tale where I can, I can show you how, you know, you will, you will have to sometimes train, train the boss's son or something like that. Knowing that you're not necessarily training your replacement, you're training somebody that they see way better, greener pastures for them than they'll ever see for you. It's just the birthright. Right. And I mean, it's wrong, you know? Yeah.

Like my last, my last shop I was at for 11 years was a. Was a family owned shop that had two sons. And, you know, I got really close to the family and they always said that I was family. I was family. But they were getting all the benefits. They were, you know, when the dose of downturn, they put them on salary. But me, I was getting sent home early.

Yeah.

You know, I, I, so it sucks, doesn't it?

Because it's like. And I know why it happens and I not. I'm not a smart enough man to know whether it shouldn't happen that way from the greater scheme of things or not. I'd be lying if I said, but man, it is, it's not the best morale thing when you don't really like when it's just out there in the open and everybody can see it is what I'm trying to say. It's not good for morale. You know, it's bad enough. Like I've seen lots of shop owners joke about. Yeah.

When I worked for dad, like I came in habitually five minutes late and you know, it would drive everybody nuts. And one guy hated it, but he wasn't going to do anything about it. On the boss's son.

Yeah.

That's just the tip of the iceberg sometimes.

Oh, for sure. Like that, that was, yeah, that was like my, my old boss's son, he was late all the time and then he would. On you if you're 10 minutes late one day, like, man, open your eyes.

It's hard to hold the standard. Right. It's hard to hold the standard when you got one set for one person and one set for the other. And it's just based on a birthright, not on an ability or.

Yeah.

You know, it's one of the, I think where some guys still hold out for flat range because it's like coming at 8, 10, but I still turn 12, you know, like it doesn't really matter if I show up late and, and I was it. That's one thing I hate is people like drives me crazy when people late for anything. It just, I see it as very disrespectful.

Yeah.

And it's something I'm trying to work on. But I mean we at the dealer, we would have guys that walked in 15, 20 minutes late every morning. And you know, like the problem with that was the first job that they pulled was normally a better job.

Yeah.

Because everybody else, the other 12 of us got all the rush out of.

The way, all the waiters, all the waiter. Oil changes.

Yeah. And they pull that big ticket that, you know, like it's just the way it went. So. Yeah. What. How do I ask this so that they've got a third shop now?

Yeah. Apparently he bought a third shop on the same road that my shop is on, so.

Oh, wow.

So bring it on.

Yeah.

So the nice thing with, with the shop I'm going at, it's a super busy shop, I think. Ten bays, eight texts, five service advisors. They've been in the area for quite a while. Two of the two, Two shops in the area closed down recently. And just, just down the road there's a Minakee that's. I guess they're on their thing. Second or third owner. I'm wondering if that.

Because I know that shop was for sale. I'm wondering if they bought the Meineke like two blocks down. He's gonna have a big problem.

Right?

But I don't know. We'll see. I, he, he wouldn't, he wouldn't tell me what shop it was.

It's probably not.

And, but which, you know, I'm not.

I'm not trying to say that I don't want to see Champ succeed.

I, I for sure want to see him succeed. And I told him that, you know, like we left on pretty good terms. But don't get me wrong, there was some. There was a couple petty things in the end and, you know, so.

This.

Was the funniest thing for me. So our safety certificates, they come in these like two dollar dollarama frames. And it was actually given to me by the Manitoba Safety Board, but I guess he thought that maybe the shop provided it or whatever. So I come in the last day to pick up lots of my stuff, and I see this empty frame sitting on the wall. And I'm thinking in my head, I'm always, You're gonna keep a two free?

Yeah, right. I wish some of this would surprise me, but I mean, I've been doing this long enough that like, nothing that some of the owners do surprises me anymore. You know what I mean? And I don't know when I, When I talk about the disconnect, it's such a real thing. You know what I mean? Because I don't think it's a lot of. It's malice. I just think it's. But holy. Like a two dollar frame.

Yeah. So I just laughed so hard by pull. I pulled that frame down, threw my certificate back in it. I'm like, I'm taking this.

What's. How do I ask that? Some texts, when they leave, part of the policy I've seen is they go through your toolbox and look through your toolbox. Is that something that was being done at your place or did you definitely.

Had a couple Guys, we might have done that with. It was a little sketchy, but. Yeah, no, he wanted all the air tool fitting back. All the air tool fittings back for sure.

That's a new one for me.

So you know what? And I didn't, I didn't want to start. So you know, even the, the loctite, the brake lube, whatever, just his. I just gave it back to him and took all my. Yeah.

I mean the airline fitting thing kind of makes sense because it's always one of the things when you're there on their first day and you go, okay, what do you guys use? They always have to call over the parts store. They never have them in stock.

Yeah. And you know what, it's funny, I mean I've only worked in like three, three different shops, but they've never had the same airline fitting.

Never. No.

Yeah.

Lmp.

Like so even Marco shop. Yeah. They don't even have a type fittings. I think they have m. So yeah. Anyways, so.

What do you think? So this new shop that you're going to, they've got a training kind of program, a training routine. A training.

Yeah. Well they also Napa. They're Napa stores and Auto Pro. So I already got the list of all the training seminars. I'm actually going to training tomorrow night on tdis, I think.

Very cool.

So there's that. And now I told, I told Marco I want to go to ASTA next year. Like it's just, that's, that's the reality. So he's gonna, he's even thinking of sending me in his, his head tech there. So.

Or him come along, you know, that would be great. Yeah, I think it's, you know. So this shop that you're going to, what are they, they specialize on any one thing or what are they known for?

Well, so they're a muffler shop, but I'm not going to say they're a muffler shop. Right. They kind of do everything. Right now he's investing a quarter million dollars in ADOs. He bought a satellite. He, he, he bought a satellite location where he's going to ship the big jobs and the ADOS calibration. But he, like, he, he's, he's, he's full. Fully committed to.

You know, they even have a CARD Act 3 for programming. Yeah. Like the top of line hunter alignment machine. They have a road force balancer. They, you know, he's not scared to invest in the shop properly. He wants, his goal is to be the best shop in the City.

Now let's, let's go into that Road force thing because you've seen some of that conversation kind of pop up. You guys didn't have one on. Okay.

No.

No way.

No. We had an old atlas. Like the thing with Champ is when he came in, a lot of the equipment in the shop was super outdated.

Right.

So he's been doing piece by piece type thing. Right. The first thing we did was bought a brand new Corgi tire machine. Which I'm gonna miss that thing if I have two tires. That thing was amazing.

Yeah.

It wasn't the automatic one, it was the one just below it. But it was just like I didn't have to lift a tire if I didn't want to. No more freaking levering tires off, you know? Yeah. And then he put in a four post. I asked for a four post for the alignment bay and then they just put a brand new two post in in the middle bay. But I know like he wants to upgrade the alignment machine going down the road and the balancer is going to be the next two big things there.

Yeah. Because the road force thing is kind of like where I'm at now. We don't have one, so it's not really an issue. But I have worked in a shop. Well, like almost every dealer now that's just standard. You can't not have one. You're not allowed. Because if you want.

I remember way back in the day, if you wanted to service Vipers and Corvettes, like I know it was a mandate from GM and it was a mandate from Chrysler, you had to have road force because it had to be done right. For that speed rating of that tire, it had to be balanced that way for sure.

And that's the thing. It's. I'm not on. I don't believe that the majority of the vehicles we're working on need to be road force balance.

Right. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. The, the Vipers and the this and that. I get it. But how often do you work on this? Right. So yeah, I get it. To me, I'll be honest. Unless you're like a dedicated tire shop that's doing speed rated tires and stuff like that, I don't think it's necessary for a shop.

Yeah. Now I have had a couple trucks that I've been able to fix a vibration that was in the truck by doing Road Force. Right. But I've had more situations where like the vibration, it didn't matter if you road force it or not. There was a bent rim or like guys running Cheap tires, right? And oh yeah, cheap tire is a whole other thing because like there's some good low price rubber out there now that doesn't shake and is, you know. But you do see some of the guys on Tick Tock, you know, the tire guys and they're like oh, these linglongs and these. Well yeah, like. But if you're trying to solve a vibration on a linglong or one of those.

But it's funny, it's not even the cheap tires that are crap. Like I would never put a set of BFGs on anything. They're absolute garbage.

Yep.

They bounce like. Yeah, they, I don't know. I. All the guys are. The cat's ass is just like those Ko2s and Ko3s can all go, go back on the boat or back to usa.

Look at what they're putting them on. Like those trucks and jeeps and stuff, they're gonna shake anyway. Right? Like yeah, they don't care that. But it makes me laugh because Brian Paulnock and I talked about that and it's. The road force is nice because you can, you can get a really true good balance on it on a rim like an assembly and minimize the weight. But like I haven't, like I haven't been able to have to, you know, take my jeep somewhere that has a road force to get the vibration, you know, out of it. I've been able to balance without them. So you know, it's been 10 years since I've had access to one.

It's not like I, I've even in my career, I've been doing this 20 years. I've had three vehicles come back for of a shake after a balance job.

Yeah.

You know, it's not like. And I just worked at a tire shop.

Yeah.

We had this cheap Atlas balancer and we didn't have people coming back with tire shakes. Maybe they went to another shop, pissed off. I don't know. I can't, I can't guarantee that none of them.

Yes.

You know, and I'm not one of those guys to believe that just because that repairs hasn't come back to me. It's never happened.

That's right.

So many of those guys will say, well I've been doing it this way for 20 years. And you know what? I. That repairs never come back or that caliper bolts never fallen out because I didn't put loctite in something. But you can't. There's not one of us that can honestly say that we know for 100 that our repair has lasted because A, it maybe didn't come back to your shop because they're pissed. B, they moved to a different town, whatever it is. Yeah. All I know is if I learn of a better way of doing something, I implement it because I'd rather do the best job I can, even if I haven't had an issue that I know of.

Yeah.

With the way I did it before.

Those Road Force machines are nice because the software is there to show you that there is the high spot on the tire and the high spot on the rim. Right. And then if you can, if it fails the rim and says it's out of balance, it's out of balance. You know what I mean? The rim's bent. And that's enough for me to. Sometimes to go to the customer and go. And he goes, I'm not buying a 500 rim. Okay, cool.

All right. No big deal, Right? But here's your proof now that this is. Things not going to be perfect when it leaves. And this is why. And, you know, we're all smiling and happy because we. We know what it needs. And maybe some other time, you know.

Yeah, it'll definitely be neat to. To see. Right. And get to use a new piece of equipment and. Yeah. Maybe my thought of road force balancing might change. I don't know.

You get to stick with some diag at the shop that you're going to, I hope.

Yeah. So it's funny, I went. I went for Chris. Well, it wasn't really a Christmas dinner. You kind. Marco kind of threw like this dinner because of the new shop, the satellite location. Right. So he invited me and this was like three weeks before I was even starting there.

And, yeah, he introduced me, like, this is our new diet guy, Merc. I'm like, oh, it's just like, you know. And you know Brian. So Brian's the other head tech there. He's like, oh, I hope we have enough diag work for you. I'm like, guys, I'm like, I'm. I'm more than just that. Like, you know what I mean? And for me, honestly, it's so funny because I'm.

I'm a wicked pipe bender. I did a lot of it back in D.C. and I always said, I'm never going to go back into an exhaust shop, but I miss pipe bending so much. Right? So these guys, now, they know, like, the one counter guy's like, oh, I heard you can bend pipe. I'm like, I sure can. He's like, oh, that's gonna be good. I'm like, yeah, I had it when I first found it, like, fully decided I'm going here. This is my.

One of my dreams was I had. I felt. I woke up and I'm like, did I just have a dream about bending a piece of pipe out of all the things that I could think about.

Oh, man. You might not be right in the head, my brother. I saw you move to a new house.

Oh, yeah, yeah, we move. We moved out of the city. We're. I'm. We're about 10 minutes from the city, Winnipeg limits. So we're not far. About three acres. It's quiet out here.

Our house is bigger. We're not. The whole family is happy. Like, I'm. I'm in an office. Like, this is an office room right now. This is an extra room in our house. So we've had.

We've had a lot of changes. Even my daughter's starting a new school tomorrow. But you know what? All these changes, we. You know, last year was a really hard year for us. Ali's dad passed away Christmas Eve last year, so we ended up selling three houses last year.

Wow.

And you know what? We've been working our butts off, and it's just been like, we needed a good change. We had. You know, we had lots of people over Christmas Eve, we had a New Year's party. We shooting some fireworks off in the backyard. And you know what? It's been a really good change. And I'm. I'm so grateful to my wife to having set up the house because we got possession December 1st.

Right.

And where. You know what? In this last two weeks, I actually got to, like, just relax a little bit, and I haven't done that in a good year and a half where it's just been, go, go, go, and it's just. It's been nice.

What did she think about, like, is she somebody that you can share with kind of the frustrations of the shop? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah. She's. I. I talked to her a lot about it. Right. I was like, hey, you know, when I remember when I first got a phone call. Molly.

Hey.

Yeah, you know, one of my old, old bosses gave me a call, and. And, you know, he's. This is what he was offering me and stuff. She's like. She's like, oh, yeah. I'm like, I'm pretty happy. And then when I was starting to get frustrated, and I said to Ali, I'm like, you know what? I've been. I've been thinking about this job a lot more Right.

And I said, you know, and I'm like, I think I just need to go talk to him. I think I just need to go see what he has to offer. Maybe there's. There's nothing there, and I don't need to worry about it, and I can just. Just keep going, doing what I'm doing and not worry about it. Right?

Yeah.

Then after, when I came back from. From talking. Talk with Marco, Hallie's like, so is your decision easier? I'm like, no, it's way freaking harder.

Yeah.

And then. And no. But I had no problem talking to her. Ali has enough confidence in me that she knows I'm gonna make the right decision, and she knows that I'm in a place in my career. It's like I said, during my career, like, it feels so good to be in a place in my career where it's like, I know what I bring to the table.

Yeah.

And if something's not 100 the way I want it, I'm just not. I'm gonna go find what I want. And I've never been. I've never felt that before. And it feels amazing.

And. Yeah.

And. And it's like I said, I. I've. I said to you, your podcast changed a lot for me. Right. And I know you hear this from a lot of the guys, but hearing the stories, hearing shop owners like, what they're giving their guys, what they're. So when you had. I think it's Brian Pollock, right? And he's talking about.

About training, and he's like, hey, I shut down three, five shops or whatever. It cost me, like, 80 grand to send all these guys there. It could be cheaper to just bring all this training to my location.

Yeah.

I was like, this guy can spend 80 grand for his guys. This champ couldn't even spend 700 for me.

Like, well, let's. We got to use the right verbiage. Can't and wouldn't sometimes get flipped when they shouldn't be flipped.

Yeah, for sure. But you know what I mean, like, oh, 100. And just, you know, hearing the stories of, hey, you know, it's nice knowing, you know, we're in it. We're in a time where we're not stuck in our little bubbles and we wonder if the grass is greener on the other side. Those days are done. Just like your. Your other guest saying that, you know, we're in the golden age as technicians. I will agree with him on that.

I don't agree with him that we're in the golden age. Where we need to work our asses off, you know. But the nice thing is we're. I feel that we're. If you have the skills, you can be in a golden age of. You can have the career you want.

Yeah. Well, that.

Right. So for, for me, it's like, I can make good money and still have my. Just my eight to five. Right. I don't need to worry about working weekends. I don't need to worry about being away from my family and all this kind of stuff. Because, yeah, I know that I can get paid a lot of money doing what I'm doing, just doing it 8 to 5.

And, and that's the thing. Like a lot of the, the recent clips from the Facebook and shout out.

To Brad, because I, I know a lot of people took that out of context. I listened the whole podcast again. There's a lot that I agreed with him. There's some stuff I didn't necessarily agree with. Grew up in a family where my dad wasn't around and all this kind of stuff, and it affected me. It might not be for every kid. It might not affect every kid. Like, I know his daughter was like, no, no, I understood that he was doing the.

This for the family and all this kind of stuff.

Yeah.

But in my head was, if I can make enough money so we have a roof over our head and we live comfortably enough, I want to be home 8 to 5. Right. And because I didn't have.

How old are you? You're 35.

I'm 4. I just turned 40.

Just turned 40. So there's a lot of technicians right now that are 40 that don't own a house.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So now from. They might have had one and they went through something, you know, divorce wise, and they don't have it anymore. That's a different situation, what Dutch was talking about. And again, some of the clips from some of the. The podcasts have really pumped the algorithm really good and they've got people really talk, engaging and that's, you know, I gotta say that I don't do the editing. So, yeah, people are getting mad at me. It's not my rage bait, guys. And it's not meant to be rage bait.

But you and I, when we go home, we want to go home at night and we don't turn it off. We're still doing our work to try and understand the next day how to be a better technician and we're researching systems and all that kind of stuff. But, like, I think that more of us need to be willing to do that. But I don't want to have to be at the shop at 8 o' clock finishing up a brake job or an engine job.

No, for sure.

To try and turn hours to hit a bonus at the end of the month or the week. Right. I don't want to be there going in on Saturday to try and hit a number. You know, there's a shop where you mentioned Brian Pollock in his area, there's a shop that went from working four days to six days. And at one point they had like six shops. They're down to three now because you know you're gonna have a handful of guys that want to work six days a week and want to work from 7 in the morning till 7 at night for a window within their career. That's the key thing to understand too. And then eventually they're not going to want to be there six days a week.

And it's like, I understand that the profits and serving our customer, all that kind of stuff look really good when we're open and available.

Yeah.

But a lot of us, when we get to a point in our lives, we want to be there for the family and we want to be. And I don't think it's crazy in this industry to think that we. That we just are open Monday to Friday. You know, we don't need to be there Saturdays. And you can talk about, you know, the tire stores have their best days of the week. Normally are sad. I get it. I totally understand.

Oh, yeah.

You know, I don't think so. I think what people need to realize is that we need to go home and continue to pour into ourselves by training to be better technicians. But we don't need to be in the shop working is what I'm trying to say.

So, you know, and seeing that. That was another thing I had a hard time with at okay. Tire was being that top guy and the guy. It was really hard for me to step away until. Until we got Spencer, which was a red seal. Like, I'll remember I had the stomach flu and I was in the toilet every 20 minutes and I had to come in to overlook a safety.

Yeah.

Because there's nobody in the shop to do it. You know, And I'm like, man, if I want to take an extra week off for my family, I can't. That's not even an option.

Yeah.

So to be in now in a bigger shop where I'm not. I'm not. That there's other people there. If I take a week off, it's not detrimental to the shop. I think it's a huge thing.

And there's a warning for shop owners that are listening. Guys, when we're talking about the, the shortage, what he's talking about is something that legally nobody else in the shop, in his shop can even do at the time because they don't have their red seal. They can't sign the safety. They can't really even inspect. I mean they can inspect it but they can't sign it to say that it's good or bad. Now that's not everywhere but up here. It's a big deal. There's lots of shops up here that like, you know, there, there's a lot of license tax hanging on right around here by their fingernails because there's nobody to replace them.

And they need that license tech.

And I know like, like they obviously don't enforce it, but I think in Canada, from what I heard, again, I never, I've never checked this, but technically you're not even supposed to work in a shop. If you're not a registered apprentice or a register.

You're not to be putting tools to a vehicle. From what I understand, if you're not signed up as an apprentice and even if you're signed up as an apprentice, it's supposed to be one apprentice per. Well I guess now it could be two. Yeah, but before it used to be one apprentice for a one licensed tech.

It depends on the province because I know even like when he came in he was talking about going back to one to one and I mean some industries that maybe I get it, but man, in our, in our trade to go back to one to one makes no freaking sense because we don't have enough red seals to the amount of apprentices.

Right. So if it does go back to one to one, you're gonna see us be paid like stupid money. Because it's just the way it's going to be. Right? It's just, and I don't like, I don't want to ever have to put the industry over a barrel and say, hey, we finally got you. Like that's why I have these conversations that I'm having is because I would like them to, to address the issues, see the problem where it is right now and do something about it before it comes and gets that bad. But it's getting that bad. And is that bad already in some cases?

Oh yeah, like, like again, I gave Champ five and a half months. If it wasn't for my follower on Tick Tock, you still wouldn't Have a red seal. That took over for me.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I can remember when you told me you were ready to go. I said, well, what. What the f. Are you waiting for? You're like, yeah, I don't want to do that to him. And I'm like, just cold, man. Just, you know.

And again, because you're better than me, you're like, no, it'll be all right. And I'm glad that you know. But you. You know what that can be like, right? Some opportunities don't. Don't wait.

No. For sure. And that's. I had to make sure that that opportunity was going to still be there for me. But you know what the neat thing is when you get poached.

Yeah.

It's. They. They just want you. Yeah. It doesn't matter when they get you. They just want you. Right. Yeah.

And again, it wasn't like. Champ totally pissed me off. It was circumstantial. Right. So I. You know what? He's. He was good to me. I learned a lot from him.

I learned that I don't want to run a shop. Right. And we grew a great business. As much as he helped me, I helped him a lot.

Yeah.

And you know what? To this day, I don't. I'll still call Champ up and, you know, we can and laugh and have a beer or whatever it is, but I didn't want to leave him hanging.

Yeah.

I know. The void I'm leaving in that shop is the reality.

Yeah.

Again, I. I'm not gonna sit here and. And gloat, but, man, like, I was the glue that held that business together. I brought a lot to that table. The customers. The customers had full trust in me. I brought a good atmosphere to the shop. It's.

You know what I mean? It's. It's gonna be hard to fill that position. And like I said. Like I said, I really hope Nick is successful, and I hope Champ is successful, but I think I. I really do think that Nick's gonna realize that this is not gonna be for him.

I think he's gonna, like, they have to both go in there with patience with each other.

Yeah.

And that. You know, and then the last thing that he wants to probably hear is, well, that's not how Mark would have done it. Or Mark doesn't do it that way because he didn't hire Mark.

Yeah. That is. That is. Has always been Champ's hardest thing, is him trying to compare other text to me.

Yeah.

Which you can't. No.

And that's the thing. Like, you know, we hear all the time about the skills gap and you know, Brian talks a lot about text overselling themselves and there's a lot of that happening. Oh yeah, Reality, right. Like you could wind up there tomorrow morning and be in for quite a shock when you realize that like, wow, they do things a lot different than what I even thought. And, and that's the thing. I've walked into places and have been, all of a sudden I've been like, wow, like I, you know, I'm gonna look like a superstar here. And then I've had other jobs where I come in there like I might be letting these people down because. And I, I, Brian and I talk about that a lot where sometimes it's like, it's our only point of reference is what we previously were at.

Yeah, right.

You think you're overselling yourself? No, man, where I was, I was killing it, you know, and then I come in here and all of a sudden you're around that next level as we're always supposed to be leveling up in this industry and people, you're not, you're not what we thought you were. Well, it's week one, man. Or it's, you know, it's month one like it. I don't believe anybody's genuinely out there trying to oversell themselves. I just think they honestly come from a place where they had it down. I say it all time, dealership guys, right? And they walk out of a dealer and they know that brand, that pattern failure. They do like, you know, they do four timing chain jobs like that. They do ecotech time chain jobs like that.

You go out there and you give them a euro car to work on and they're like, you know, and it's like they forget even how an oxygen sensor works or that that would happen.

To me if you threw a Mercedes for me to diagnose. I'd be like, you know, but like, oh yeah, like even last year last or yeah, last night I woke up at like 5:30 in the morning, my brain like this and just, you know, I'm not gonna say I have concerns my ability, but again, it's a new environment. I, you know what I mean? I'm like, just watch. It's gonna be like a can bus diagnostic. The first, first job of the day and I'm gonna be stuck on this for like six hours.

Yeah.

You know, but no, I, I didn't really have to sell myself. I think just like I, you know what it was, it was just like he saw what I brought to the table, just from what I was putting out there. And I'm not one of these fake guys online, and you know what you get, right? And I'm. I'm excited to see what I can bring to the table there and. And see how I can be successful there. And, you know, I'm not going in there with my head this big. And I've always been a pretty humble guy. I just want to go there and go fix the cars, man, and just be in a new environment, have other people to bounce ideas off of.

And that's gonna be killer for you. You're gonna love that. You really are, I think. Yeah. So it always makes. Everybody I've always worked with has always taught me something. 100 doesn't matter.

Yeah.

You know, I think. And that's. What a neat thing to be able to say that, you know, some of your online stuff, your Facebook and your tick tock has been part of your resume to get hired like that. Twenty years ago, I would have never thought that would ever happen.

Yeah. Even now, like, I get messages, hey, if it doesn't work out at Marcos, give me a call. I have no idea who this guy is. Like, some random guy. Yeah, right. And I'll get that every once in a while. I'll get a message. I'm like, hey, I'm blah blah from this shop you're looking for.

Like, and. And so it's, It's. It's cool when some people say, like, hey, you know, if you're ever looking to travel or, you know, relocate, and I'm like, that's pretty neat. You know, that, that the online, how we just, you know, cut up and. And get to know one another out here and put our stuff out there is. Is putting out so much in terms of people are enough now to make a decision and go, yeah, I think that person would be a good fit. I think that's awesome. You know, now again, there's always two sides, right?

Oh, yeah.

I've spent a lot of time with a lot of people from online now at this point.

Yeah.

I can't say that I've met one person yet that, like, is not who they appear to be.

Yeah.

And sometimes even once you get to know them, like Mr. Subaru.

Yeah. That was the only person I could thank them for. Yeah.

Once we get to meet him, he's a way cooler guy than he is lacrosse. Like, it's. I got to hang out with him again in Vegas when I was there, and what a super guy. Like, he's just, you Know, and Chuck and everybody else, like, everybody's been so cool. Really cool, you know?

Yeah, I know. I said. And then the funny part is with Marco is he. He was my boss at one point, and I remember it. And he didn't remember it because he said he was going through a nasty divorce at the time. So it's been kind of the first thing I said to him, like. Like, hey, do you remember? Do you remember? Because I was like, I was the first year apprentice, and I was a mess at that time in my life. And I remember me and my girlfriend at the time, we got into a huge argument the one night, and I was pissed drunk still.

I had punched a stucco wall out of anger. So I show up to work crying. My hands are completely cut up, drunk as hell. He's like, man, what are you doing? So they drove me down to the hospital and like, hey, do you remember that? That young apprentice that he's, like, ignored.

That was me, man.

Now you're. You're calling me up to hire.

Small world. So. But, I mean, he probably would have never thought that young apprentice would be you. You know what I mean? Become what you are. So people don't. Just because we act a fool when we're young doesn't mean you give up on us, you know, like, yeah.

Even have to laugh at my. My last job in bc, I had dreadlocks when they hired me. And the. The owner didn't notice I had dreadlock. I don't know how, because I was wearing a bandana. And his son's all, like, you hired somebody with dreads? Because he had, like, a horrible hiring record. Right, Right. And of course, look at that.

I ended up being there for 11 years. It was one of their best texts and stuff. But, like, now you're bald. Yeah, now I'm bald.

Which. Listen, people, I'm not making fun of him because he's bald. I'm just about bald too. It wasn't about that. That wasn't. Don't take it that way, because I. I know my hair's falling out too.

So I. I got dreadlocks because I was balding at 20. I was like, I need. If I want this hairstyle, I gotta do it now.

That's awesome. So what's. What. How do I say this?

This.

They seem like they're. They're up for tooling.

And.

And you're.

You said you're gonna be Marcos. Marco's invested tons into the business. There's also talks and maybe me even going to that satellite location okay. And working out of there. I don't know. I don't know how that's going to work because I know I'm gonna be bringing a lot of customers in and it's not. Customers aren't going to be going to that shop. Right.

So.

Right.

I don't know exactly how that's going to work, but I told him I'm pretty open regardless till at least January 20th. I'm in the main shop because the other head tech, he hurt his back and then he also had a trip, so he won't be back in the shop. So.

But you're gonna get exposed to ADAs, you're gonna get exposed to a lot of stuff. That's pretty straight. That's going to be good for you, man. Yeah, I think that's, like I said.

And I'm hoping that I can. I can add a whole nother facet to the business and with Toba tech and stuff like that. And you know what? He's. They give me, like, he's giving me free reign with my content because realistically, at this, at this point in my life, at this point in my career, we're a package deal. If you don't want me to do content, I'm not gonna work on your shop.

I'm the same at this point. Right. Like, I come in and tell everybody that I have the podcast and that, you know, sometimes I have to travel to an event. So I'm not asking you guys to pay for it. Like, it takes care of itself, but I mean, you know, there are going to be a couple weeks when I'm not gonna be there. And, you know, you gotta kind of be flexible. And, you know, this is the first boss. Well, it's not the first boss, but this is the first boss I've ever had that wants to be on the podcast.

No, we haven't been able to get the schedule lined up or whatnot. But I mean, like, the last three bosses that I've had have all been cool with it, you know, I think because they know, like, it's, you know, things come and go, people move. And your content, you know, what you do online, me, what I'm doing, it's going to be part of us for a lot longer now than, you know.

Well, it's funny because they, they even have their own Tick Tock channel that they've started up in the last, like six, six months. So it's gonna be really interesting because, like, they have a social media team, right. That does theirs. So I'm kind of curious how we're gonna, you know, incorporate that. But at the same time, I negotiate with him that I want some kind of reimbursement for some of the customers. I. Because it's like I said to him, I'm. I'm marketing your shop in a way that no one else in the shop does.

That's right.

I should be compensated for that. You know, at. The reality is like. Like me and Champ had calculated I brought over $50,000 worth of work last year, you know, from what we could think of.

That's a big part of your pay, right?

So. So anybody that. That says old, you know, I always laugh when you get these old guys that comment. They're like, I can't believe your boss is letting you do it. You would have been fired so fast. I'm like, well, your boss is an idiot. So. Because, you know, this day and age, man, I get it.

If I was doing goofy, you know, like, oh, what's that guy?

Unprofessional.

Who's that? That Toyota tech that's always swearing and just. What's his name? Do you know who I'm talking about?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But obviously he's not trying to, To. To build his brand as a competent. You know what I mean? But like, something like me. Whereas, like, yeah, I'm like, hey, you know, I'm. I'm bringing into the, into the business. I. I have no problem with putting the address of the business right on my, on my profile, and I try to bring people in. I want to be compensated for that.

Like, yeah, yeah.

I think it's. When you look how successful royalty's been in the short time that they've been, like less than two years, right? And they're just. Mark, they're the. It's just rocketing up the chart in terms of people that are bringing them cars now. I think that that's going to be, you know, when we talk about all this kind of stuff where, you know, I talked to some of the guys and they're like, hey, listen, the DBI is going to be the key to unlocking repeat business with a particular customer, with a particular tech. They're going to want to come in and go, I really enjoyed that DBI experience, and that tech is who I want working on my car next time. That's a very rare thing. But when you.

When you go to that next level of putting it out there, right, all over the Internet, not just between you and your customer, holy crap, man. There's not a whole lot of ceiling for where people might want to come and see, you know, from how you might get people coming from Saskatchewan to.

You know, I had a guy from none of it.

Yeah. So, I mean, I had a guy.

From none of it because he bought a truck on Alberta and it had to be shipped through Winnipeg. He's like, hey, I want you to go through it before it goes up to none them of it. I had a none of it played on a, on a truck in my shop. It was unreal. Right? I get, I get technicians in other cities where like, let's say their family lives out here. They're like, hey, man, I love your content. I know that you do good work. Can you look at my sister's car? Right? I get old retired red seals.

Yeah, that, that come to me. They're like, hey, love your content. I just, I'm too old to wrench on my anymore. I need somebody confident.

Yeah.

I think three of my really good customers are old red seals.

That's pretty cool.

They're the easiest to talk to. Surely get it. They get it. I'll remember with this one customer, right? He was actually a newer, newer customer to ours, but big follower. And he had his Nissan come in. It was a Nissan Rogue no Murano. And it was a no start, but it was a crank no start, dude. I spent seven hours on this thing.

I went through every thing I could even think of and like, check timing, check everything. Fuel, scope, this, that. I was just like, there's nothing left for me to check. And I was like. And I just sat in the vehicle and I just sat down. I'm like, I. I just wanted to just start when I do this. And all of a sudden it fired up.

It fired up every single time after that. Did it ever recreate the no starts to this day, he's been driving for over a year. Has never not started again.

Yeah.

Do I know what caused was a crank? No. No start. And it had no spark. But the crank sensor, everything, everything was working. Timing was bad. It's like it was just nothing made sense. Absolutely. And you know, but it was, he was easy to talk to because I'd be.

I, I. The whole process is like, hey, man, this is where I'm at my next. And you know, timing is not easy to check on those moranos. Like, it's right. And I said, I've exhausted every option I have. Right. But I'm like, the next thing I have to do is check base timing. I just, I just have to.

I don't. It doesn't make Sense that base timing's out. Right. The scope. The problem too is I couldn't find a good known scope pattern either. So that I could trust because one would look like this and the other one looked like that. I'm like, ah, right. So I was like, this is the next step.

And then timing was good. I'm like, none of this makes sense. So I put all back together. I couldn't believe that I called him up. I'm like, you won't believe this, but it's running now. He said, what'd you do? I don't know. Put it back together. Right.

And then I heard from some Nissan guys that apparently the PCMs can freeze up on those and cause all kinds of issues. But the weird part was it sat in my shop for 10 hours.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, it's not probably that then.

Probably.

Probably pin fitment on the pan on the camera crank. You know, they used to. Some of the older ones, they were so bad camera cranks, they recalled them. And I've seen some sketchy stuff from how the guys used to do the recall that it's amazing. Most of them still started after they did the recall because it was like, I don't know, they were buried and it paid like one something to do both sensors, right?

Oh, yeah.

Most guys remove the sensor with a pry bar. Like, I mean, like not a pry bar. Like pry it out, like smash it off out of the hole with pry bar type thing. Right. Like they were. But that's how they were doing them in that time because you had to go down between the runners of the intake and it, it was just, it was junk.

But even after that, he's been a good customer of mine and he's going to follow me over to, to Maxim after. Right.

So, yeah, I, you know, shops that are listening, you got to think about your social media. If you're not doing it, you're behind, you know, and, and, and it does work. You, you got to have some limitations with your guys, you know, and professionalism has to be the number one priority. You have to conduct yourself like a.

Professional, you know, And I even had to laugh.

Your content knows that you do that. Right?

So. And I even had to laugh because, you know, Champ at first was kind of like hesitant on letting me do it. Right, right. But it was like after the first month, he's all like. Because he'd always watch my tick tocks. He's all like, you know, you know, I'm watching you and I was like watching you close to see if you're filming or all this kind of stuff. And then all of a sudden that night there's a tick tock that comes out and it's the goddamn job you're working on. But at no point did I see you with your phone and I'm like, like I said to you, man, it doesn't distract me from my work.

Yeah.

Because you know what, I'm so proficient with my repairs that, that you know what the five minute me filming takes doesn't distract from it.

Yeah.

So I proved to him after the first month that I was just like, okay, he can do the job, be killing labor times and still do his content and it doesn't affect it. Right?

Yeah.

So yeah.

I mean look at how good Chris Enright and Chuck are. Right. Like it's just become such a part of their routine now. Now that you know that they're not, they're not losing by doing it, it's all winning. So. Yeah.

And you know, a lot of the tool stuff and the bigger videos like that, that breakdowns, I just do that on my lunch break or you know what I mean? I'll come in early in the morning and do it or if there's a lull in the shop, I'll do it then. I'm very respectful my of my own. Like there's times when I'm so busy at the shop that I, even though I have a cool thing to film, I just, I'm like, I'm just too busy to take my phone out and, and show this right now.

Yeah.

Right.

So I don't want to keep you all night. I know you're gonna go have dinner and I'm gonna have dinner and my dog is getting antsy. So Mark, share with me. If you could kind of give a couple words of wisdom to owners to avoid losing their star people, their star player, what would it be?

Listen to them. Listen to them. I'd say don't get them amped up about training and take it away from them. Yeah, right. That was, that was the hardest thing for me because again as those life changing for me and I couldn't stop talking about it for a year and then to, to take it away from me. That was a big blow again. Like I said to Ali, happy he did it then because you know what, it's one of these things that I probably walk away from the business this at some point. He just, he just made it happen sooner.

It's, it's a hard one. Right. Because I think my, my situation was A little bit unique because my role completely changed and it's just like, it wasn't a rule that I. I necessarily wanted, but I think if you just treat your guys right, listen to their needs, they want to shop, invest in them, I think you'll be able to keep any. Anybody. Right. Most guys aren't like us. We aren't listening to the Jaden Mechanic podcast.

We aren't talking to other people in the industry. Most people think. Don't think the grass is greener on the other side. Most taxi. It doesn't take a lot to keep them there.

No.

Right. Give them a little bonus here and there, treat them like family.

And, you know, I. I gotta reiterate for people, you know, Marcus has been talking about everything but money. And Mark and I, when we started this off, the conversation. He's not leaving because of money.

No.

You know what I mean? Like, that's not what it's about for Mark now.

He'll make a little bit more money at the end. I. I would have made more money staying with Champ.

Yeah.

With what he offered me. But again.

Not that offering after you've already, like, signed the paper. That's. That's a one of these to me. That's how I take that. Right. Because I can't take the respect with me. And it's, you know, and. And listen to what he's saying, guys.

Like, he's saying because you took away training, the opportunity for him to improve for your business, it made him feel like he didn't. Wasn't valued. And when we talk, I talk all the time about, like, technicians, it's scaring a lot of people because they're starting to really, truly learn what their value is. And it's like, like, guys are going crap. And it is. It's not meant to scare people, but it's just. And I'll say this, when. When somebody like Champ sees them make a change and they put Mark somewhere and you can see that it's not going how you thought it should go.

Or.

And I want to. I'll use the word struggling. If you see, like, the two people are struggling, Mark's struggling to still get done what you needed to get done. And at the same time, by God, don't sit there and hold onto the wheel as it crashes into the fiery burning abyss. Throw the brakes on, stop, back up, get back in the driver's seat, because it's your business. You should be there. And. And don't sabotage your.

Everything that people have worked to build, because that's what's happening here, you know, it's being frank and real and real. That's what's happened, you know, a change that he's made. I'll be a better or worse. We don't know. Better for you probably. Maybe not for him, maybe worse for him, maybe better for him. But it changes inevitable. But man, if it doesn't seem like it's going the way you thought, stop.

Reevaluate, you know, and then like, another thing I'll add to that too is that, you know what, if you have a really good guy that's, that's turning a lot of good hours. Don't get hung up on the little, the little things around. So I'll give you an example. Our snap on guy maybe came in once a month, right? Chad always had an issue with him, especially if we're busy, right?

Yeah.

And I was always respectful at the time. I wouldn't even go on the snap on truck. I would stop for about 10 minutes, talk to him, go, hey, I need this warranty. I need this warrantied. What? You know, maybe take a quick glance at the flyer, pay my bill, and he'd be gone. And the first time that I'd maybe spent 15 minutes with him when we're super busy, me, he got super mad at me and I lost my. Absolutely lost my. I was like, man, it's not like I can go to the store and just get snap on tools.

That's right.

This guy comes here and he's like, well, you don't respect my time. I'm like, if I didn't respect your time, you'd have to drag me off that snap on truck after half an hour. But I didn't stop my. I talked for 15 minutes. Yeah. I'm like, I got no other way to. To warranty my tools. He hasn't been here in a month.

That's right. Yeah.

And so I thought we had a good end. It was funny because it was like a month later again, busy day. And snap on shows up and I could see Champ at the window just like, you know, and I'm all like, always gonna get me going. So. So after I talked to Barry or whatever, right? I walk up there, I'm like, hey, what's the issue? He's like, well, you know, snap. One guy's been here for an hour. You think that's fair, right? I said, man, I talked for 15, 15 minutes. Minutes.

So, yeah, but he's been here for now. I'm like, yeah, he came to deal with me, went to his truck dealt with my tools, I paid my bill. Then he went to Daft. Then he went, you know, so he spent 15 minutes with everybody. So yes, over the course the time he's been here for an hour, but none of us left the job. None of this went onto his truck. And he's like, yeah, but you just need to like respect the two things I had said to him at that point was I'm, that's fine, Champ. You know what? Every snap on tool I have in my toolbox, I'm taking hold home.

If there's a job that I can't do because I don't have that tool, I'm just gonna tell you I can't do it.

That's right.

Right. And I said, I said to him, I'm like, I just saved you four hours on that eight hour job and you on me over 15 minutes. Come on. Right. So that kind of stuff don't do that to your guys. Another thing I'm going to tell you right now is his bonus structure was so he had a performance bonus that was tied to the profit of the shop.

All profit of the shop.

So sure. So after our first year we, we had a record year last year. Right. So everybody made bonus and then the next year. So if we made let's say giving number, let's say we made a million dollars a shot next year our goal was to anything above a million dollars, you'd get, get X amount of percentage. Right. So this year we didn't have the busiest year. Right.

Plus his brother sucked at selling up front.

Yeah.

So I think we made as much as last year, but we didn't do above. So one thing I said to Champ was, hey, if I'm gonna stay with you for five and a half months, I still want my bonus. He gave me my eight year bonus of being with that company for eight years years. But there was no performance bonus. Right. So I didn't really. So after it was all said and done, I messaged him. I was like, you know, you really need to change your bonus structure.

Told him because if you think that I didn't deserve a performance bonus last year with the fact that I worked twice as hard, I had way more on my plate and you're going to tie all your performance bonuses to the profit of shop. It's super unfair to the guys in the back because a, we don't control the cars are coming in and we don't control the jobs being sold. So you can have a shitty counter guy that's going to Affect it. And I told him, at the end of the day, you have a four bay shop, there's a ceiling. You're only gonna make so much. Yeah, Right. So if you're gonna tell these guys that, hey, I don't care how hard you worked at this year, we didn't make that. So you're not gonna get anything.

You're gonna piss a lot of guys off. And it's funny because I talked to some of the guys afterwards. McHade, did you guys get a performance? He's like, no, man. I thought it was like, what's the point of me working all that hard? I'm like, exactly. I told him, like, you're. You're either gonna piss guys off or you're gonna get guys that are gonna work their asses off because they know there's no point.

It's a dangling carrot mark.

It is.

You heard me talk about it, right? Like, it's, it's why it doesn't even enter into my brain anymore. Of like, I'm. I'm not even chasing it for you because it's. It's something that I'm not in control of, especially the way he's doing it.

Yeah.

And you. It's too easy to manipulate to keep it so that it looks like I've got these guys hustling, but I never intend to pay out. And. And that sounds really crass when I say it. But let's just cut the. There's a lot of you listening that work for people that think like that.

Yeah.

And I can tell you that if you do work for people like that, think like that, or you feel like they think like that, you can have a conversation with them, go in there with an open mind and try to understand, you know, see their side. But it probably is a situation of where they don't really want to. It's the same as in the dealership games with, you know, CSI and all that kind of stuff you heard me talk about all the time. They tell you that if you do this, you're going to get this. The reality is, if you get that, that you're never gonna get this is more. I would say, you know, they're going to change it again so they don't. Because it's in their best interest to keep that, you know, and not pay it to you. So.

And that's. Maybe people are gonna argue, listen, I want my guy. I know you want your guys to have a good life. I get it.

Yeah.

But it's hard when it's been A lean year to still pay out bonuses. You know. Now the linear thing is that's not the technicians problem. That it's a lean year and they hate industry.

There's a lot of ups and downs.

Yep. You know, we talked to our friends in the US and, and you know, they had a really weird year because as soon as it's election year, you know, everybody, they talk about in the US all the time. People act funny with their money. Right. They do weird stuff. They don't, they don't spend. It's harder and harder every week up in Canada. This is not, I'm not going political too.

For people to afford things. So you know, if these guys are Reliance like the National Lampoon's Christmas vacation. Right. You know he's expecting his bonus at the end of the year.

I know. We were watching over Christmas and I laughed. It was just.

He gets a Christmas pudding of the month like he gets put together the month club. Not what he was expecting. People.

Yeah. God damn it. Just put the pool in everything.

So, you know, if, if you have, your staff is expecting something and you're not being upfront and honest and forthcoming with. Okay, this is not going to happen because of. Give them a reason why, have a good open conversation. But give them lots of notice because they do come up to the end of December, the end of November, whatever, expecting something and when all of a sudden you just the week before Christmas tell them, hey, yeah, it didn't work out. Here's some numbers that I cooked up and, and you didn't hit it. There's a lot of reason that text. A lot of new techs start new jobs on January 1st, so.

Oh, for sure. And then honestly, like what we made last year, that is like close to the ceiling for that shop. And hey, you know, reality.

The reality is Mark, you guys have done pretty good because he's bought two more shops.

Yeah.

So your little four bay shop made him enough money to buy two more shops. So don't, don't think that. And I know you don't. But let's. That's, that's just, you know, people that try to turn around one minute and say they can't afford to do something for you and then they tell you about the house that they bought, the boat they bought, the car they bought or the two other businesses they bought. We're not trying to say you're not entitled to that, but it makes your argument pretty weak.

Yeah, for sure.

So closing on that, Mark, I love you, brother. I wish you all the best.

For tomorrow.

Thank you for being here, everybody.

I'm sure if you guys follow me on Tick Tock, you'll see all my new adventures.

So yes, you can find them on.

I I Liter ran out of okay tire content yesterday. That's how much I had it built up. So now everything going forward is all going to be new stuff.

Yeah. So you know where to find him. He's all over Tick Tock. It's Tovatech. He's on Facebook too. But most of the time you find him on Tick Tock and you guys all know where to find me. You've been great lately. Lots of argument with me.

I love that. So I'll try to make the clips a little less rage baity for Everybody going into 2026. Okay, but no problem. Promises. So.

That'S what drives the traffic, brother. Why do you think I always gotta poke at those Milwaukee guys?

You know the Milwaukee guys are not that bad. It's our friend John that's with the snap on stuff is completely hilarious. So out to lunch when it comes to that Tools though, he's like, hold on, there's 20 years old. I'm like, yeah, I remember them. They didn't work that good back then. Congrats, Mark. I'll be talking to you. Thanks for coming on tonight.

All the best in 2026. It'd be nice if we'd see it Tools. That'd be pretty cool.

Or at Austin happened. But I'm asked is definitely in the plan. Love it. Love it.

Everybody, thank you for everything. We'll talk to you soon. Love you all. Ciao. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise. And I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change.

Thank you to my partners in the AESAW group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10 millimeter, and we'll see you all again next time.

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