Why The Malaise Era Was Actually Good — Carmudgeon w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep. 207

Oh, dear.

Yeah.

I think you identified correctly that this is going to be the last ever episode of the

Carmageddon show.

Oh.

You tell.

You said it.

I, there are some controversial hot takes, I think, in this episode of the Carmageddon

show.

Not controversial, it's just fact.

Okay.

There are some takes and they have a temperature.

They are thermodynamically reactive.

We put some hot gasoline and flames inside a catalytic converter and a thermal reactor

and made things explode.

What we're talking about is why the malaise era was a really good thing, which is words

no one's ever said before.

By extension, the role of government regulations in creating the texture of the cars that we

all interact with, some of which we like, others of which we do not care for at all.

All seen through the lens of the beautiful Bruno Sacco errant, no kidding, to ignore

the one.

He's somewhat kidding.

Only somewhat kidding.

I mean, look, it just happens to be the episode of the Carmageddon show after the Revelations

episode on the 129.

So we have an R129 in the background and we have to wrap that around because otherwise

people are going to be like, why is there a 129 in the background?

Most people are listening and not watching anyway.

So they won't know what is in the background.

We could tell them there is a Bugatti Veyron in the background.

No, that's a Chiron.

No, that's a Tourbillon.

We, ladies and gentlemen, we have an exclusive today here on the Carmageddon show.

We have a Bugatti Tourbillon here in the studio.

It's revving to 12,000 RPM the entire time.

Okay.

Well, I'm going to clap now and then you guys will enjoy it.

Got a round of applause for my bullshit.

Jingle.

Do you know what enthusiasts care about, Derek?

Yeah.

I am one.

Oh, what do you care about?

We have a script right here.

Driving.

But it says enthusiasts care about details and the fact that you're fighting to get

the Bobbleheads.

The battery tender Bobbleheads.

Plastic turtleneck.

It's a scarf.

It's it's aimed backwards because he hit the gas really hard and so he's at speed. He's at speed

Yes, battery tender is trusted by it by the way this episode of commercial show is sponsored by battery tender if you hadn't figured that out

And battery tender is trusted for cars motorcycles and boats

Because it ensures that you can use your car when you want to yes because a dead battery spoils all the fun

And battery tender does make jump starters battery chargers and the charge and start

I did a little bit of a Michigan accent charge and start

Which is a single device that is both a battery maintainer and a jump starter

So if you would like to get 20% off be sure and use the Haggerty 20 code again Haggerty 20 at battery tender calm got it

Okay, do you know what else enthusiasts care about?

All of the barriers associated with using and enjoying their cars. Oh, I was talking about R129's. Oh

There is a to no one surprise a Saco era Mercedes behind us

That very car was in was one of three SL's that was in last week's

revelations video and

Why did you need three pray tell be a well?

I could have had more than that if you I wanted a six-cylinder a v8 and a v12 and obviously it was not about to

Even look at a v8 v6 that wasn't gonna happen. So it didn't sell the v6 in the United States also which helps

Yeah, it was a it was a fun revelations to do

And I sort of glossed over a lot of the powertrains that weren't available in the US like the m103

Which is the 12 valve straight six if you think this car is slow

I don't think that car is slow. I think that car accelerates slowly. Yes. It's actually not slow. It just feels it

Yeah, so that is a 300 SL dash 24 as it would it would have been badged if it were a Euromarket car

So the 24 valve 7,000 rpm straight six with a dog leg five-speed manual

And

It's so good. It's so good. So I did the back road drive on the three cars back to back to back

So it was this it was your 500 SL in barrel, which is a really great really great color

That's the the 4 cam 5 liter v8 and then there we have our buddy's 600 SL in

Magma magma red flaming red. It's just very very red. So red that it's on fire and that is also the four valve

V12 so driving them back to back was really interesting because it was my previous

Belief that the 500 would be my favorite

And it was but I wouldn't buy it because it's an automatic and I don't particularly care for that automatic

So I would buy that 300 SL 24 five-speed dog league again, which is the only one 29 I've ever owned

Yeah, and the 600 not a fan

Actually the six this in line six so that's 600 is by the way to m104 three liter straight six

The v12 is two of the straight six is confirmed

But in my research that it's actually the one of the heads is

Identical or nearly identical the other one is a mirror image obviously

The v12 doesn't sound nearly as good as the six does

Hmm and all the extra firepower is is that exhaust system design or I don't know the same thing happened with the 850 CSI

I'm in the end of the e31 that the BMW m70 v12 doesn't sound as good as either of the two

M20s that are connected. I don't know some exhaust routing

thing

But the other thing that I did when I don't have the numbers here

I should pull it up. I weighed all three cars and this is very interesting

So the quoted weights, this is from memory from Mercedes Benz

But I think the quoted weight on the 600 is

4450 and the quoted weight on the 500 is 41 50

Which means that the v12 weighs 300 pounds more 300 and something pounds more. Yeah, and the 300 is under

4,000 pounds. I want to say it's like

3,900 or something like that according to Mercedes Benz's published numbers all from the same brochure

Something seriously fucked up when I look at the original road tests of the cars the weights were a little bit higher than what the

What the factory said I think if I remember correctly, but the v12 was a

Porker I think I want to say they they were 4,400 pounds. Yes, I said 4450

This the red SL that we had which is a very late SL 600

With the panoramic hardtop on it on roof installed roof installed

I removed it also to get weight even with the panoramic hard hard top was

4228 pounds and the panoramic hardtop was

93 pounds

So that 600 SL which we all

The ride move at is only 41 40

Hmm, and by the way the 500 SL so these are all full tanks of gas no hard tops on them the 500 SLs

3920

Veritable Lotus. Well, I mean, yeah, so that is 100 or 218 pounds

There's 220 when we round up, but the crazy part is the 300 SL manual

Versus the 500 SL automatic, so you're going from a straight six to a v8 from a five-speed manual to a five-speed automatic

The difference is 41 pounds. I

Wonder what the automatic 300 SL weighs I

Mean it the day there's I don't understand this the the M104 is a sort of a famously heavy engine

It must be

Because to have 40 pounds to get an automatic and a v8 that doesn't make sense that means the straight six has to weigh more than the v8 does

Crazy crazy, but anyway that

Is the v8 aluminum throughout? Yeah, and the straight six is is cast iron block. No

No, they're aluminum. It's all aluminum. I

Don't understand this

Yeah, anyway, so anyway 3 38 80 for that car 39 20 for your 500 SL and 41 40 for the 600

maybe the cars have been

Sublimating over time because they're old now, so they've gotten lighter

Exactly cars are getting the crazy thing to me is that you know, everyone says you really really owe my shit in the trunk

No, everything you're taking out you had a lot of stuff in there. There's like a car cover and a

That weighs a pound

The

You really don't actually feel the difference in weight between the cars of them all the 600 actually felt the best on the twisty road

Because it has it's not active control

ADS adaptive damping, which is a fully active suspension, right? Just slow, but it does

Does do stuff the that is that was my favorite Tossel

And this is our friend's car and I think he's got aftermarket shocks on it that are a little bit too soft

So you definitely could tell like my 300 SL was not that floppy and loose that car is an absolute

Unmitigated riot on the on the back roads and the 500 is just so fast

And the 600 the v12 only is really fast at high speeds. Is it only much faster than this

Yeah, then the V8 it doesn't sorry the V8 it doesn't actually the v12 feels torqueless down low and the v8 doesn't which is strange

Yeah, the V8 proved to be a very enjoyable rally car at a great time

Yeah, that is I think the 500 SL is the one is the best of all of them

But the 300 stick shift is the most fun Tossel sure just because you know it's a manual

But yeah, no, it was interesting episode the I think I talked about this

We did on the episode that we filmed live on location in

Monterey car week that Soco didn't actually design yes these cars

So I think we've mostly covered what we need to cover on 129 especially considering

We've spoken at great length of Soco aero cars and our 120 nines in the past

Definitely, I titled that episode the world's most perfect collectible and I stand by that

Hopefully the comments don't crucify me too much. You always use that terminology when talking about Soco cars

I use the world's most perfect sedan. Yes. Yeah, I did that again

You know, we're I actually say in the episodes as journalists were cautioned against using the word perfect

But everyone always did with these cars and they were nearly perfect. Yeah, I'm obviously a fan

And serial consumer

It was these cars. It was also really cool to see the three cars together because we had this is an early car

Then 600 was a late car and then yours is sort of yours is an early car with a later paint scheme

So it doesn't have the contrasting lowers and has eight-hole wheels instead of those gully decals and clear corners

Which were added in 95

Oh, your cars originally that was those are correct for your car. Yes, because it's a 95

But in 94 they have amber and there were two tones

um, I

All of us who were here all preferred the look of this car. These wheels fit the car best

I like the eight holes personally, but I like the wheels a lot

But I think that this just this color scheme on this car with you know, with the contrasting lower and the wheels

It's just it's perfect. It's perfect a quantum leap ahead against the r107

It was it was also 200 years newer because the r107 was in production for 200 years

Yeah, there should have been one to two intermediate generations between the 107 and 129 and there just wasn't just wasn't and the reason for that

God damn government regulations

Exactly strangely. Yeah, which leads us to specifically in the united states. Yeah, actually it was a hundred percent

us related

I made a statement as we were deciding what this episode topic was going to be and derrick raised an eyebrow and disbelief

And I thought I was going to get punched because I said we should do an episode where we just

disagree on something

And it was that the malaise era

Was actually good for us

That's like not exactly what you said what I say

Uh, you benefited from the malaise era. I don't know. I don't remember exactly, but I I

You you implied that the malaise era was good. Yeah, which was

It was a terrible time to be a car enthusiast, but

Yes, it was a result. It was a painful time of transition. Yes. So let's define the malaise era. Yes, let us do that

You go ahead. Uh, I don't know. Shall we say

1973

to

72 73

to

1980s

Five six. Yeah, sure. We're in there. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So that the mid 70s to mid 80s

But the early side of the mid 70s. I think it's

Yeah

Well, okay, so cars in the when we were talking about emissions and fuel economy

Really 74 75 76 is when it got bad. That's when it got bad

68 was the first year where they started having to to

Make concessions, but they didn't truly become really catastrophic until

74 or so and then you also had lighting regulations changed bumper regulations changed

And so you had these the first regulations for both safety and emissions

That's not entirely true because you had sealed beam headlights that were mandated in the 1940s. I think

But in in large part, you know, the substantive changes to the car started arriving in 68 model year 68

mandatory headrests

side reflectors

sort of padded interior components

And you see this certainly in a lot of european cars

You'll see it in model year 68 Porsche's and jaguar e-types and mercedes pagodas

There's a lot of stuff that starts changing for the 68 model year

And i'm sure this is true of american cars too, but i don't think know nothing about them

So i can't specifically comment

But uh, yeah, and 72 was it one was the big bumper 72?

Uh, 73 is when you would start to see the rubber bumper overriders arriving on stuff like 9-11s and e-types

and

74 i think was the full five mile an hour impact requirement, which was that you

Sorry had to survive a five mile an impact our mile per hour impact without substantive

Uh

damage to the structure

Of the car and that is for the record not a safety concern. That's a consumer product

Concern really to bumpers are not a safety device

They're there so that you can bump into something and not damage your car

and so this was government regulation to to force the car companies to make

Uh a consumer product that protected the consumer's wallet more than anything else, right?

So you can have a little bit of a parking

Ding and not go have a multiple thousand dollar repair adjusted for inflation

Um, but yeah, the government started to get a bit heavy-handed. I guess is

It's late 60s early 70s and then really clamped down. This is specifically in the united states

We should add also and this was also a result of an international fuel crisis correct energy crisis. I guess is the correct word

um, and so

By the time you get from by the time you transition from like 1969 through

1979 if you look at the horsepower figures of cars, they just plummeted

Mm-hmm, and the cars also just started to run like shit also

Um, everyone the everyone was chasing smaller and more fuel efficient sized cars

Um, which then resulted in the downsizing trend for the american industry, which was not done well initially

Correct, you could tell that it was being imposed on them externally and not because they thought it was good

consumer demand wasn't necessarily

there

um in the for the american stuff that was downsized because they were just chopping wheelbase out of cars and you know

still these big long great great long hoods and

um, just very space inefficient vehicles

The consumers didn't want and then the next crop of sort of front wheel drive cars that came in that were compact, but they were

um, not exactly the the best

Can you provide us with an example of that Chevy citation?

Yeah, okay. I mean it wasn't a world beating car

It was just an economy car that they the GM had to shit out

Because this idea of corporate annual fuel economy

Or cafe average

Yeah corporate average fuel economy

Um kicked in and car companies had to hit this fleet average of fuel economy or they were penalized

And this is continued through today

Ish yesterday a couple days

It just stopped

Okay, so this is about the end of cafe

Cafe, like you said stands for corporate average fuel economy. That's for cars

Those trucks are exempted from that

But basically it states that the entire blend and is this done on a per capita basis in the sense that every car counts?

Or is it that your whole product portfolio? No, it's every car sold counts

So it's the average okay for the entire fleet of cars sold fleet of cars

So if you had if you sold 12 cars that got six miles per gallon as long as you sold

1100 cars that got 35 miles per gallon, you were okay. Yeah

Um and cafe is why this car exists in its form many cars many facts

Um, so this was just to wrap it around to Saco era Mercedes

Uh very quickly the

The cafe requirements were passed in 1975

And must have taken the entire automotive industry by surprise because they all panicked

And Mercedes response was throw a diesel in everything right away except the SL

Except the SL as a stop. Well, that's the 129 was supposed to have an as a have a diesel

And I found a picture of one. Yeah, very very happy about that a test mule

But throw a diesel in everything just to to get the cafe numbers up temporarily as a stopgap measure

And then create a new family of small cars

Smaller cars and a new family of smaller far more fuel efficient engines

And that was the 201 as we know is the 190 or the baby bends and the 124 that e-class

But all and the m102 family of four cylinders, which is was in the 190

That

Project took all of Mercedes resources and therefore they had to shelve the one development of the 129

Which was of otherwise come out 1981

Or for the 81 model year instead it came out almost 10 years later

And what was the penalty for a manufacturer that didn't meet the it's a per unit penalty and I don't remember what it is

Something inconvenient well something to cause them to comply and

Tesla for example their entire business model at this point their entire profitability has been selling

Cafe credits because obviously no tesla has ever burnt fuel

And so they have credits that they can then sell to other automakers and stilantis for example

Would be in big trouble with all the hemmys and the big v8s and you know all the fuel fuel in the inefficient vehicles

Large fuel efficient fuel inefficient vehicles. And so they just buy teslas credits and then just sort of bake them into the price of the car

um

However

So it's a really cafe has very drastically dramatically changed the shape of the cars that we drive

Many 15 years ago now they revised the cafe

Standards to be a function of footprint. So uh wheelbase times track example

um

And so the bigger and wider the longer and wider your car is the lower the standard you have to hit

If you're ever wondering why the bmw3 series got fucking enormous

it's because and now has 112 inch wheelbase, which is

Not only the same size as a toyota land cruiser

But it's also as big as the old seven series was 15 20 years 25 years ago

Um, and it's so that they could hit lower they had lower targets to hit

So it's really changed the face of

all the cars that we drive in this country

And the trump administration has just basically removed those standards. So the standards are still in place

But the fines are gone. So there's now no penalty for any car company

Not meeting not meeting the cafe

Uh, and so this is talking we're talking about fuel economy. There have been obviously emissions requirements

And I think this is a particularly interesting topic, which we have probably discussed

At length at various times

Uh, the fuel economy standard. So the clean air act arrived in 1963

And then that was sort of a description of like what the government's responsibility would be and then the standards

I think really arrived with the first revision, which was in 1970

And that's where they say, you know x percent reduction in

Um emissions of various types. So that would be let's see knocks and socks

Uh, so that's sulfur and nitrogen oxides

And this is the result of insufficient oxygen during combustion if I remember correctly

And uh, they also are managing particulate matter

Uh, which is like soot in the case of diesel

And lead which is this is the origin of unleaded fuel

And uh, what else is being controlled hydrocarbons?

And there's probably

That's later on I think

Okay, um, there was probably one other thing

And so they basically come out with these regulations, which are

attenuated over time

And you know, there's a whole bunch of different ways that you can manage this eventually the catalytic converter emerges as like, oh

Yes, this is very obviously the right solution to this problem

but that wasn't in place early on and also it's predicated on having your fuel mixture

Controlled correctly, which was not possible at the time given the rudimentary technology, especially with

carburetors

Although it can be done and there are catalyzed carbureted cars for sure, but it's still not an ideal solution

And so this is the result of you know smog laws the smog present in in developed areas and you know, if you

Now sit in traffic behind an old car or an uncatalyzed car

You will notice that it's

Fragrant

Stinks. Yeah, and if you imagine like it's 1965 and no cars have emissions controls and it's all they're all burning leaded fuel

It's like paints a very interesting picture

That gives you a headache. I mean every time I drive

Any of my uncatalyzed cars and the Ferrari is the worst I stink

I have to I have to arrive at my destination and change

Yeah, um, and I have to keep a bag in the car of

Of clothes that are sealed off

Because of the whole everything around me stinks and people kind of look at you in

In traffic and I'm always thinking who's you know, we are in california. So everyone's a little bit, you know

environmentalisty

But like it really fucking stinks and all uncatalyzed cars stink to some extent that you know the better the fuel economy

You can pull a cat off a modern car and they stink but they stink far less

But I just and then I think they're burning a little bit more carefully is the stoichiometrically. We've talked about this also, right? I have

And there are I love this graph

That overlays the way in which knocks socks and uh hc

all

Very based on as you get richer or leaner in mixture

And that there's this magical little window that if you could keep it in there then you minimize somehow all three

Are you develop the best compromise between the emissions because one of them is sloping up all the other smoke sloping down

at two of them

And this is the one spot where not only they all get to the lowest point, but that they can be catalyzed away

So they're yeah

That's that's the only job that your fuel injection has is to manage to measure the amount of air that your engine is sucked in

And apply the correct amount of fuel so that they're 14.7 times apart

It's all that's literally its only job

And that's what your oxygen sensor does it monitors what's in your exhaust in order to tell you

Or tell the computer I guess what's coming out and so it can adjust in response to that

and so the the addition of the clean air act and the regulations of

Criteria pollutants, I guess is what they're called

Also helps with a whole bunch of other stuff not that you know like

acid rain for example or

You know ozone it's people who certainly I think who grew up around the time that I did

There was a big concern about the hole in the ozone layer and

and cfcs and all that stuff

And because of the regulations that were put in place as a result of the clean air act that sort of hole went away

And the problem that was sort of the catastrophic issue of its time was resolved through the power of regulation a system of regulations

cap and trade in some situations cap and trade meaning

Exactly what you were just talking about about cafe where if you have some cap and you can

Achieve us to at a certain level

Then you can sort of buy credits in is a short term

The intent is a short term solution until you can come into compliance and people who are overperforming get credit for that

And that creates a market

Basically a market dynamic around controlling and ultimately reducing

And you and the government controls the quantity of these things that exist

And and so then it sort of has the desired effect of reducing the system's

Output of whatever the criterion pollutant is whether it's you know cfcs or whatever

So acid rain the problem is effectively solved. I never think about acid rain

The ozone hole was also solved

We talked about the

Let it gasoline was another one where the power of the regulations was such that it was just phased out and

You know what we saw through the malaise era is the

Struggles of engineers to figure out how to solve these problems

And it's an interesting kind of a bold approach

Which was probably the response to a a serious problem that people were really struggling with which is you know the air quality and and just

Quality of life and and the cost to the entire system of the economy

Say this costs trillions of dollars that the the impacts of poor air quality cost trillions of dollars and thousands of lives

A year and so you say like this is going to be painful and it's going to

End you know the muscle car era, but it will presumably be worth it and then by the time that the

mid 80s roll along

The engineers have figured out. Okay. Here's a solution that

Allows us to have our cake and eat it too and you get there within more or less 10 years

But there's a very painful 10 year process

By which everyone's figure out and and consumers in the short term deal with the unpleasant consequences of that like

thermal reactors

Right, which is basically an afterburner right shit that just didn't work that caused the cars to run like shit or just

Yeah, they meant the numbers but at what cost they were high like the durability of the cars the the engines specifically

I mean the emission systems

So I would I had was telling the story earlier today actually had a I had a carbureted 1986

Susu pup now 86 is very much the end of the malaise area era although. I don't think a susu was

At the bleeding edge the bleeding edge especially not with a truck

No, and yeah, because most trucks were exempt from most of the standards still are still are in large part, but

Um

This was a carbureted engine with a catalytic with a catalytic converter and an oxygen sensor

So it had some the car was an 86 six 18 or 19 86

17 86 it was 1986 and uh, and so it

I went to go to a we have to do the smog checks every two years and it

Failed miserably and so I thought uh, oh, I had a problem and I mentioned it and passing to a friend who was mechanic

He said, oh, I know I worked at a susu when those cars were new and they never passed

I'm like, well, how'd you smog them?

We said, well, there's two lines on the on the on the carburetor and you do vacuum lines one is whatever and you reverse them

The car will run like absolute garbage, but we'll pass and that's how we got them all through

I mean there was this level of fuckery going on

It was just that difficult to get these cars to to pass with a cattle whether because

And the whole reason for this is that carburetors cheaper than fuel injection

And if you are trying to make margin then you make them be carbureted cheaper, right?

I mean the

That was that car ran perfectly

Unless it was actually emitting into some shades of dieselgate, right?

Unless it was emitting multiple times what it was allowed to do and they're just the technology just wasn't there to allow

Car companies to make cars that ran well made power and also hit the numbers

Um, so we have this whole era of cars that are shit that we sort of all look down on

In california, we don't want to own them because we have to smog them every two years, which is

Increasingly difficult. Yeah, and they're still carbureted. So that makes it all the more difficult and unpleasant and this is the reason which the

We briefly for one shining moment tried to make Leno's lobby a thing which has subsequently expired

died, but I mean I own a 1975

Car that is smog exempt. So it's I don't have to smog it every two years

I would not buy a 76 version of that same car period

It's not even remotely possible. In fact, I have receipts which you gave to me with the car when because I bought it from you

This is the Ferrari

that

when the car was

11 years old, I think it was

They spent eight months trying to get it to pass smog. I mean, this was an eight-year-old car with 20,000 30,000 miles on it

Whatever is it idiotic? I mean, it was just it was a terrible time

And since then obviously 1975 cars have been exempted. So I don't have to do it at all

But this was a real problem. It's also an opportunity

for our

shitbox rally for

where we

You know, everyone had to buy a $2,000 car at rally and there's an incredible window of extremely cheap

late 70s cars because nobody wants to deal with getting them emissions checked here

And so they all are just basically free because it's so much pain to get one plated

You know the sad part is this is going to be all of the redwood era cars because in california

They're now everything 96 and newer is just a plug-in. So as long as the computer doesn't have a check-ins and light on and says everything's okay

You're good to go. So the 76 through 96

76 or 95 cars are going to be the ones that we're half to smog and they're going to be

Their values are going to be pushed way down, which is every car I own. So great. I think

If you have a

well-maintained happily sorted unmodified car with efi and a catalytic converter

You might have a sporting chance. Oh, yeah, you'll have a sporting chance, but it's still a pain in the ass

Yeah, it absolutely is. I mean a friend of mine has a

I mean something is clearly wrong

But my friend of mine has an 87 9 11 with the efi and a catalytic converter when those cars are running well

They're extremely clean and his is not and you know, it's probably a sign that either something is wrong with

It is a sign that something is wrong with it

Whether that's related to peripherals or in controls or whether the engine is just worn out and you know

It uses some oil

So if that may be a contributing factor

But if it's a happy sorted car, then it will be happy

It'll it can pass as long as it has efi closed loop

Right fuel injection and a catalytic converter and everything is perfect. I mean, I've had problems with the cabriolet

You know, everything's running absolutely perfect and nox is just really high because that there was a 10.8 to 1 compression car in the 1980s

And they just weren't well, that's cis also that's cis all rudimentary

It's all more rudimentary, but the problem isn't the nox emissions on that car

The problem is that the standards have come to it's stricter now than it ever was correct

And that's you know, we don't want to give you the california experience

But that's come on you expect the cars to be cleaner now than they were 40 years ago

They were new it's idiotic, but that's a different story. Yes. Well, I'm glad I said the word idiotic because I mean

I don't want to come across like a government like, you know a fan of big government and regulation

but

The in the whole point of this

Theory that that the malaise are actually was a malaise era was good

The best example, I think I've given this example in the past my friend eric who bought a house in la 2000

Yes, you have and so very quickly he lives on a street. He bought this house. We have of course this on street

He bought a house and he lives on a canal. He lives on a canal. He's in venice. He's in venice

Which is a suburb of elli anyway. No, he lives in glendale or italy or which is not italy

It's little armenia, which is next door to italy

But no, he lives in glendale and bought a house on the street and I should be able to pull up a google maps

Think of it and at the end of the street. There is a mountain

Just basically looks like a vertical cliff face

He didn't know and this was in 2000

This was roundabout when the when the first sullef cars came out

These are super ultra low emissions vehicles and they're you know, they're sort of

Some engineer somebody realized that the air that was coming out of the exhaust pipe of sullef cars

Was cleaner than the air that the engine was ingesting in places like

Los angeles

So this is really the beginning of the ramp up of getting cars really clean cars today are really clean

And I think he had owned the house for 10 days or a month or some some small amount of some time

But non-zero amount of time and called me and said oh my god, there's a mountain at the end of my street

It was at the time maybe once a month or once every six months that he was able to see the mountain

The rest of the time the sky was just white and smogged in and it was just

sky

um

He never can't see that unless there's a fire or something else now and and so we tend to think of the malaise era as really have having

you know

Changed emissions really from 1975 through 1990 or so, but the benefits were still really paying off

In the 2000s and recently and so he went from and again, this is unimaginable to me that he couldn't see the mountain

That's a mile from his house

except for and rare exceptions to now it's always he can see it

And of course you gotta remember the average car on the road in the united states is 12 and a half years old

12.6 years old at this point. So it takes a long time for the fleet to filter through

But that that's the difference in air quality just in the last 20 years 25 years

And so we have the malaise era to thank for that

But we also have the malaise era to thank for not just r129

All of the cars that we have today that are fast as

Fuck they start they run, you know

Industry doesn't like to invest in in things that are expensive

And emissions controls and fuel engine controls are very very expensive and resource intensive to engineer

And I don't think we would be in a place where we had cars that started and ran with the

Perfection that we expect today if it wasn't for the malaise era and for those emissions standards

Yeah, and uh, you know, it's a

We now live in a place in time where we've seen that it's okay

And I think that it was difficult to imagine getting to that point and of course the gm engineers famously

This is the sort of honda. I knew you're going there

You know, they famously said it was impossible to deliver this level of performance and the ls some damn

How I still around and is meeting all of these standards the us ones anyway

So that story for those who don't here was the general motors v8. So gm approached the epa

350 cubic inch and chrysler they both

Approach I think it was gm and chrysler, but jam for sure approached the government and said it is absolutely impossible for us to meet

Your 1970 I think it was two or five. It was in 72 that they did this 75 emission standards. It won't happen

um, and honda

Shipped over a Chevy whatever it was. Yeah, so honda had previously developed cvvc the compound cvc

Compound vortex combustion controlled combustion controlled combustion

And we're able to meet emission standards without

Without even a catalytic converter without a catalytic converter and significant pollution controls just through controlling combustion

And gm said well, you know, that's something for a toy shitbox car. You can't do that with a real car

Right and so they they actually made a v8 with cvcc heads on it and it made more power

honda did and I think it made more power and got better fuel economy and

met the emission and the emission standards without even a catalytic converter and that was the ultimate like

Shut the fuck up to the car companies from honda

And hondas were sold for a number of years in the u.s without catalytic converters post 75 so was Volkswagen

rabbit

Did not need a catalytic converter ran clean enough, but

aggressive

That was a painful transition really painful

Look at the cars. I mean go if you want to be depressed

I've said this before if you really want to be depressed go read a car magazine from 1982

And go drive a car from this era too. Honestly, there's it's pretty it's pretty, you know

All of these large land yacht v8 corvettes. I mean they're really just tragic mustang two was the result of this right?

They said okay that we're gonna think big

Which means redesigning the whole car and not just making the existing one cleaner and that was the result was mustang two

And there's a whole problem, right? They just put it on garbage small cars that that

Although genius

Because it's still mustang two was a huge sales success because it was the correct car for the correct time because people really did need fuel economy

Given the but it wasn't objectively good. It was just uh

It's it was something that still preserved some element of desirability while meeting the constraints of the time, but you know this

Different manufacturers from different places. I think we're able to manufacture cars that were less compromised

Uh through better engineering and this was why this was yet another step in this sort of takeover of imports

Which was really gaining traction by the 80s

And they had the they were better positioned to take advantage of the new reality about fuel economy and also emissions and

You know, which was the second fuel crisis, which was in 79

and so this really

The standards to which these cars were built consumers ultimately were like, oh, this is a better mousetrap

Like as much as I want to buy american

And this started happening obviously in certain parts of the united states sooner than it did

in others, but

Uh, I think it's pretty universal now that like even the most blue-blooded of americans will seriously consider buying a toyota tundra

Or a more american than you know more quote-unquote american than some of the american branded stuff

Yeah, correct. So this this but that era would that's reconciling that the

american preference for america knows best and that was becoming an outdated philosophy was, you know, that was perhaps true in 1967 but

By 1982 15 years later the landscape was very different and we owe the pervasiveness

You know the best-selling car in america becoming the toyota well initially the honda accord and then later the

Camry was the result of the japanese being in a better position to

You know develop cars that meant the needs of consumers during this period and regulations, right? Yes, and the regulatory constraints

So in the news lately

What the reason this came up obviously is there's a lot of

tumult

That's the right word in the in in regulations right now concerning cars

We talked about cafe. We talked about cafe

And so what got my attention first was there's a

Did I oh, I might have screwed up and not taken. Oh, can I take this opportunity to gripe about tariffs again also?

of course

So while we're talking about governmental tumultuousness exactly

So, you know in april allegedly april 2nd the the tariff rate was going to go up to 25

Percent supplemental on top of the existing two and a half percent and then they said oh actually never mind

that's not what's going to happen and then

So we were like okay great everything's fine. I would recount of the story of the f 40 that we were just

You know rushing to get in before the deadline

and then

We said okay everything's going to stay at two and a half percent great

We'll continue on our merry way and continue to import old cars that are more than 25 years old because the duty rate will be two and a half percent

That was a lie

It turns out that they imposed retrospectively as far as I can tell but that's maybe not true

Reciprocal tariffs depending on the country of origin in the car

So we brought in a car in june and at two and a half percent and then have been hit with a supplemental

12 and a half percent

Reciprocal tariff in addition to the two and a half percent that we already paid so 12 and a half not 25

Not 12 not yet because the cars from the eu so the numbers are based on where the car was manufactured

And so eu is 15. I think in the uk is 12 and a half percent and it's like 17

And a half percent for japan or something there's a different number for every country

Which is not what they said was going to be the case

And so a bunch of importers who've brought in various cars are now being hit with you know in our case

It's a 65 thousand dollar additional bill

Of on a car that we brought in in june and of course the car is all sold and that it will completely erase the

Margin from the car

and that is

That the point here and this applies to the emissions and fuel economy also is that the regulatory

Environment is extremely unclear

And this extends to obviously outside of cars as well just to anywhere is that as long as the regulatory environment is unclear

It's extremely difficult to make business decisions because you don't understand what the constraints are businesses can and do

Adapt and that's exactly what happened during the malaise era

But what also happened during the malaise era was that they were extremely clear about here's what your regulations are going to be in

One year's time three years time five years

Here's your schedule here to the penalties that are going to come and they sort of drew something out and then adhered to it

And the businesses the car manufacturers

Responded accordingly and turned out chip boxes until they could figure out how to make cars that were decent that also met the standards

And that's something what we certainly do not have right now is sort of clarity and like here's a plan and here's what's going to happen

And here's the timeline in which you have to do x y and z

And so it's extremely difficult to make business decisions. I say this as a business owner

Who's just importing widgets?

But if imagine you are designing and building and supply chaining and everything

The development schedule for a product which is five seven years

And the regulatory environment is extremely unclear. And so it's it's so the net losers are consumers

Who don't get products that meet their standards and or the costs are you know then passed on to them because they say

Well, we had to do this huge rework at the last minute and the product now costs this much

I think the the bigger issue is it's not just that it's unclear. It's that it's so volatile

Like listen, you can we get I would happily sit down and have an argument with you or just not an argument a discussion with you about

any

governmental philosophy, right? Do we want to be environmentalists? Do we want to be industrialists?

Is there a benefit to having tariffs perhaps 100% we can have all of these things

But I think the one thing that that I can't accept is that the government is volatile and also unclear

Because we none of us can make decisions and where the automotive industry is concerned

These decisions are the the policies and everything are changing on a minute by minute basis. It seems

And when you have times are seven eight ten ten years, right? So what got my attention this

this week that made me laugh

is that the

there was an

What the how did they fucking phrase it basically the the the department of energy released a guidance

Oh, effectively banned not banning but effectively banning

different the use of different words

And one of them was emissions because it is considered politicized, right? So in addition to emissions

They are not to use okay. They issued a statement to sort of partially retracts a Tory statement

um

Saying that okay, we you're not you know, it's not that we're not allowed to use these words

But we're going to encourage really thought like a lot of thoughtfulness and mindfulness around using these words

um climate change

carbon footprint

Clean or dirty energy decarbonization energy transition green sustainability

Or or tax breaks or credits or subsidies

But but the fact that the department of energy can't use the word emissions or is cautioned against using the word emissions

And look they can come out with whatever statement they want and say we are not

You know, we're it's not saying you're not allowed to do that

But that is I'm sorry to say the same thing that the FCC chair just did to uh to jimmy kimmel

I don't know if you yes, right you so you know this, right? That was 100 percent

constitutional violation of the first amendment of the constitution of this country period

That was the FCC trying to shut shut someone up. I think that was I think everyone

Reversing that and taking a step back was the right thing to do and due to outspoken consumer response

I hopes I don't the public. I mean listen if that one I'm

Not a lawyer. I have a law degree that was prima facia violation of the constitution of this of this country

Like there's but I also think that the response from the masses was important and I think it was really important

and if

You know masses respond there is still some ability for the the individuals to have some impact

if enough people

Feel a certain way and make you know it known and you know say I don't know cancel their abc subscriptions

There's some leverage that consumers have they they they indicate their preferences through their financial spending

Yes, they're buying decisions, which you know happens with

Products of all types all the time it certainly happened with cars

And that's why we got the sort of influx of higher, you know better engineered

Japanese cars and and later on Korean cars in the united states their wallets to buy them over the american stuff

Right exactly and so that that is the power of the consumer certainly and we all in to some extent have that power

And can wield it if we enough of us feel a certain way and the time horizon is long enough

Assuming that the regulatory environment is stable enough. That's well there there it is

I mean that's the thing is what's going to change next right? So if you know if you look at them the new car

Industry, oh my god. I mean it's it's an about face after a reversal after a reversal and

This is what we see about ev mandates for example, right?

And it's it's very difficult to keep track of what the fuck is coming next when the car companies can't figure out what to make next

And so, you know, Porsche has Porsche got rid of the combustion 718 line

And they're just about to debut the ev and now they're saying oh and we're going to throw combustion engines back in there

And maybe this was all a bit premature. Okay

Was it premature?

This is a matter of my opinion. Yeah

So was the catalytic converter. So was the cafe mandate. So was all the clean air act that was all premature that was that was

Yes, they said here are your targets with no clear technology or technological solution to meet it

But that's exactly what engineering is engineering is a set of constraints where you say this is how it has to perform

Figure it out. I have no idea what's between now and how it's going to perform

But this is how it has to perform and of course the car companies push back on all of that back then and of course

They're pushing back an EV mandate now figuring out that's the the what the sausage factory processes look like when they're completely, you know

Well, it's scary and it's expensive and let's be honest the one thing

That's very clear is the consumer demand for electric vehicles is not yet where it

Needs to be in order for mass adoption on the scale that the government regs were pushing for

Mm-hmm

In much the same way you could say that the emissions, you know

A individual consumer is not going to value or understand what the the

Reduction in pollution associated if you could say to them. This is how your car is going to perform

This is the fuel economy that that's going to get which initially in the case of thermal reactors was worse when you were meeting emission standards

Uh, and this is what the experience of driving. It's going to be like this is how it's the mpg

It's going to get this is how it's going to perform in exchange for

You know fewer emissions and an individual consumer is going to say well fucking i'd much rather have 400 horsepower and you know

Well, the choice was literally i mean if they had been given a choice it would have literally been okay

Here are two identical chevium polis one costs

$5,000 i'm making these numbers out right one costs $5,000 and the other one costs $6,000

It's a big price and one of them has 400 horsepower 300 horsepower and the other one has 157

300 horsepower one gets 10 miles per gallon

The the one that has half the horsepower gets

Gets eight so you you're using more fuel. Oh

And the other thing is that the one that's cheaper starts

And idols oh and the other one well it's going to stall out all the time in traffic

And these are things that are just foreign concepts of most younger people now who've never dealt with carbureted cars

But the cars literally didn't run when they were brand new they stalled they backfired

They just would die on you they would heat soak they would they wouldn't restart they'd have all kinds of issues

And so of course the consumer would say fuck you fuck that thing. I'll take the old one right

Yep, and what the real answer is that the constraints plus a bunch of engineers and some clever thinking gives you see

Neither of those and instead you get efi and a car that still makes

But you did get a 10 year misery right so we're you know an era of

Malays

Did you just think about yeah, um

I I find it really fascinating. I you know, I don't ever

Like to get political on this podcast and I don't think we it doesn't really matter which side of any argument we

Were on

I mean the Kimmel thing as far as I'm concerned is there's no sides of this right the

Every side was like wait a second. This is this is free speech. We really shouldn't be censoring someone if you don't want to

Watch it. You don't have to you don't have to sponsor it

um

But uh, I was very happy to see that the conservative side was very much aligned with the liberal side on on this one

Um, I don't know if you saw that I did. Yeah, that was great. Like everyone's like wait a second. Hold on. Whoops

That's that's one step too far. Um, but I did compile a list that I now have on my laptop

And I want to pull out of all of the other things that the trump administration has rolled back in the last

Oh, I did send it to myself as a text. That's what I did. Um in the last year and it's pretty staggering

And it it really does explain why the car industry is in complete panic slash shambles

so the one of the first things that they did was

Uh reversing the tail hype the the tailpipe emissions rules that started we're going to start in 27 so 27 to 32

um model years

Um, we're basically going to force. There's no force here. No one's forcing any technology

But the fuel the the fuel economy and emissions rules. This is a co2 rule

So it's effectively a fuel economy rule because co2 is just proportional to the amount of gas you burn

We're we're going to we're so strict that the only way given current

Technologies for any of these automakers to meet these goals was to hybridize the fleet

Those have been rolled back. So that's just done for light and medium duty vehicles

So fewer manufacturer who had planned to debut a car for model year 27 that did that then your rule your rules

That you're playing by have changed

Have just evaporated, you know, for example this week, um, we have two big pieces of news in the miata sphere

One is the the passing of tom matano. Who is the father of the miata? I wore this shirt as a as a tribute

Tam matano was here in the studio when we did the miata revelations episode that man was amazing

He was one of the just an absolute light of a human being and I don't

Like that. He's now gone

um

The other piece of news is that as leaked out of japan is that the next generation miata will also be sold as a

Toyota gr 86 as a 2 plus 2 with a hybrid system in it. Okay. I if

That's a rumor at this point. No one knows what's going on. But the hybridization is 100 percent because of co2 rules

Both for the in the u.s. And the rest of the world because europe is very very strict on co2

Um

Well, all of a sudden that doesn't matter in the u.s. So now what the fuck do they do right?

Imagine this imagine you're in the beginning planning phases of the next generation miata

And you're like, oh, we were going to hybridize it because we had to but the whole philosophy of miata is not

Is lightweight simplicity. Oh shit. What do we do?

Um

Are we not going to have to do that in the united states and what about in three years time?

Is that going to continue to still be the case or don't get there yet because we have bigger conclusions to come to

But you're right

The ev quote-unquote ev mandate, which was not called ev mandate was it was eliminated and this was another tightening of emission standards to the point where

combustion engines

That look worldwide one way or another whether whatever whatever your beliefs are combustion engines are being outlawed or were being outlawed and are now sort of

Slightly less being outlawed, but they're going away. There's no question. It's just a matter of how we land that plane

Um

The other thing is california's clean air waiver was was rescinded or revoked and that's that's a little bit frightening

So this is california got a waiver from the epa 153 thousand years ago

probably

Or 60 years ago

I don't remember what it was, but california was given permission to act on its own to invoke to invoke stricter

Emissions limits for vehicle sold in the state. Yeah, and there's at least a dozen states that subsequently have adopted

california standards, um, and that is a real burden on the car companies

Let's let's be honest about that to make two different versions of a car to test them both to make sure they're they're both it's it's stupid

But I understand why california pushed for that certainly because remember california created those standards and then the epa took them over for the

Clean air also invented smog

Yeah, well, it wasn't an issue. I mean if you live in, you know, rural arkansas, you you didn't know what you wouldn't have ever seen smog

Right, so it would make sense that at a place like la which was the sort of founder of smog

Birthplace of smog

That should be on the side when you move in that that was important enough for for that population to have forced through these emission and control rules

Well, that's now been revoked. So there's one nationwide emission standard

and

Okay, I get I get it from a business perspective

I don't understand it from an environmentalist perspective at the end of the day

Like we all have to live on this planet and if we were able to meet those needs and the the average cost for car was

I don't quote me on this number. It was something trivial

$37 or something like that. Just fucking charge people a little bit more money

They're they're gonna vote with their wallets to not if given the choice obviously as we've discussed, but you know

Sorry, I think that you know if we can if we can save the planet a little bit for a little bit of money. Let's do that

um, they've also

The administration has also suspended the the ev charger infrastructure deployment

likes

initiatives

They've now also gotten rid of the penalties for cafe and then they're removing ev

and credits for like solar and and evs and shit like that

And so what is really happening is the government has come in and say we are no longer going to force

Emissions to get better and fuel economy to get better and we're just going to allow the free market to determine that

um, and I

I think that's really short-sighted. I think we again, we wouldn't have the cars that we do today if it weren't for the

Stress of the malaise era or the malaise of the malaise era. Let's put it that way. Um

And this is a very different situation, right?

There will be some stress and growing pains associated with an electrification

process, whether we go fully v or we go hybrid or something else like that. Um, but actually the technology this time is very different

all of the things that make these engines

Cleaner are actually making them faster too. Um, you know, and when you have the the world the leader of reducing complexity

Right, and when you have the leaderboard of the fastest and quickest cars in the world and they're all electric

Well, come on guys, like this is we're not going to suffer the way we did the last time where we're going to suffer is over grid

Okay fair point, right? I mean, you know, the grid doesn't and the experience for the enthusiast for sure, right?

And that's that's the big one. Um, but what I worry about is

The malaise era started the real

Real descent of the american car industry and we're now we've now killed it off

Actually, I'm going to go one step further and saying by removing all of these protections

If you're a follow suit, we will have killed off the western car industry

And what we'll have left is

When these regulations come and it's not trying to stop forward progress is very much like trying to dam a river

Right, there's the water is collecting and at some point the dam is going to breach

um, and

I people get so upset when they hear me say this

But if you've lived with an electric car, it is a better transportation device and I'm not talking about a replacement for a 718 came in

Yes, and it's not for an enthusiast because what we are forgetting is that the majority of people who consume cars view it like a washing machine

It's a device to get you from here to there and if it does it cheaper and faster and costs

That's what cheaper is

If it's just a generally more pleasant experience, it's like the same way

You know, we we did our stupid shitbox rally with cars from the 70s

And one of the takeaways from that is I cannot believe that the just vast numbers of consumers were just forced to deal with

Carburetors and just the dumb bullshit associated with old cars. Nobody wanted not nobody and there were new cars then

There were new cars and they still suck

Yeah, exactly

But the average consumer had to deal with stuff like that and they didn't want to deal with that

And then you know a carburetor icing and chokes and all this dumb stuff that

No average consumer wanted to deal with because if your washing machine required you to interact with it the way an old car does

Then you would you'd hate it as a pre heated

Yeah, and so the average consumer

Will benefit from an electric car and we are a small but vocal

You know minority of enthusiasts who actually care about it

And I have said this for I don't know probably 15 or 20 years

But I feel that gasoline is far too precious to be wasted on people who aren't enjoying

The act of combusting it it should be used by people who are enjoying it

If you're not enjoying the combustion of gasoline by its own right

Then you should drive an ev then you're commuting right then then you're using your automobile to auto

Mobile lies and drive somewhere else mobilize

Right just to move and and there's a better way and that's electric right and that's

That really pisses off a lot of people but it really pisses off a lot of people for two reasons

Number one, they're enthusiasts and they enjoy the the burning of combustion and we're not talking about that

And number two, they don't want the government coming in and telling them what they should and should not be driving

But that's a fallacy. I mean the government has been is dictated every part of every car that we

That we touch is subject to a regulation and the cars wouldn't look the way they do

They wouldn't drive the way they do they wouldn't function the way they do if it weren't for government regulations

And by the way, we wouldn't be here because our parents would all be dead from car accidents because there would be no safety regulation

So while I don't want the government telling me what to do at all they already do they do

And and it kind of needs to be right because am I going to vote for my wallet with

Like, you know for some like crash protected numb e-pass fucking self-driving bubble. No, I want some 1800 pounds

That's why we have all cars

Yeah

All right, and I can't even bring myself to review new cars anymore

Like that's really upsetting to me. I'm really struggling with this. I actually suggest. I don't give a shit

It's my job. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean I it was an eye crisis of identity for you

Right. I was on the phone with Anthony Esposito earlier today and we're we're putting together next

I consumed and blah blah blah blah blah and we were talking about what the fuck it was

And I said, you know, I really should just force myself to sell the e-golf

To force myself to get press cars because I need to have one sort of modern car that I just

I don't have to worry about warming up and all the other, you know, old car things

And I should just force myself to get rid of that

So I have no choice but to drive press cars again because for the last three years

I haven't driven press cars and now I'm like, oh, I haven't driven that I haven't driven that I haven't driven that

I haven't driven that but the truth of the matter is I don't care about any of them

Because neither did the people who make them or neither did the people who engineer them. There's no passion in who buy them

That was harsh. It's true. It's also true. Yeah

It's just a bad there's a small number of enthusiasts out there looking for some bright light but the

Majority of people are like, I prefer this because it's not walking. Yeah

No, and most cars are just that it's a really terrible situation

But what I really fear that's happening is the progress will continue the world will continue to

Move towards the electrification of the automobile for all of the aforementioned reasons

And if we don't have regulations in place that force

The hand of the car companies that we are currently interacting with

They're going to get left behind and when the dust settles

The u.s. Car industry will be gone the european car industry will be gone

And we will be left with no choice other than chinese innovation, which is

I have we don't have any chinese cars in the market in the market the u.s. Now

Wow, I mean all it takes is two seconds of sort of searching

For reviews of everything that's happening right now in china and it's

Unbelievable it's all electric and it's unbelievable and that I worry that we're just now

We're saying give the consumer's choices. You know don't don't have big government and had we not

Done what we did in the malaise era. We wouldn't be where we are and we're we're now finishing off the conventional car industry

So the malaise era was good

Remind me how again

Because that wouldn't be there. I wish yours your 129 is parked outside. Yeah, your 124 is parked outside

True that car wouldn't exist either my 201 wouldn't exist

I mean look at the cars that existed before the gt3 wouldn't be what it is

There's uh, you know

You could wanted to choose a more conventionally desirable car if you could possibly imagine something more desirable than the soco era

Mercedes gt a 911 gt3 would be better without today's drive by noise standards

Yes, we have short gearing and fuel economy centers. Yes for sure is hurting us, right? I mean as enthusiasts like but the car's ability to

To rev to 9000 rpm and to have the compression ratio that it does and to have direct injection and all this stuff

Is all the result of the malaise era

That's the point I was trying to make that they exist the good things that that engine can do

Are the result of the technological advances that were required that were forced that were obligated by the malaise era

Yes, I will say direct injection was it was the grand grand child of that, right? That was that was yes

But that sort of continued pressure

Exactly

Towards I mean, what is the benefit of direct injection? Let's go to school here. Why is direct injection good? It's an efficiency gain

That's it

So without turbo charging all it is is an efficiency gain because it allows you to have a higher compression ratio

Which therefore allows you to have higher expansion ratio, which allows you to make more power from from less same displacement

Also, yeah, which is where those are directly related

Obviously and then and then you add turbo charging on it and now you have the same

It allows higher compression and the the controlling over your ignition timing and all and the timing of the fueling

Much better emissions. There's there are benefits across the board that have allowed us to have

Today's modern turbocharged thousand horsepower monsters. They wouldn't be possible without di

um, which

Would have not happened if it were not for the continued pressure of ever increasing emission standards on stuff or decreasing

Oh, okay, ever there. Yes, exactly. The standards are going up. The emissions are going out the amount of of

Emissions and I know that's a now a bad word that the department of energy is and say they come out of cars

It's like laughably small. I think you could

Yeah, I mean, I think what the goal or maybe the philosophy that underpins these rollbacks is that we've done enough

It's good enough. We solved the problem, right? See the ozone hole is closed

So we call that good and now do something else. Okay, for the record, were it not for co2

Emissions another word. I'm not allowed to say or a word again. I'm not allowed to say

Maybe that is true, right? I mean the current crop of cars are zevs and p-zevs. So, you know

So there's a zero emissions vehicle mandate that was california thing that um, that you know x amount of

x percent of cars sold in california had to be zevs zero emissions vehicles

Um, and the combustion cars got so close

That they were called p-zevs partial zero emissions vehicles

And it's not because it was a part of an ev like it wasn't the front bumper

It was because the emissions levels were so low. They were barely measurable

And at that point they were giving them partial credit and saying, okay

I know the car does emit but it admits so little that it's fucking negligent what that was negligible negligible

Yes, sorry

It wasn't saying it wasn't factoring co2 and co2 is a greenhouse gas and that's causing the warming of the planet earth

And whether you like whether you blame the car or not the the planet is warming up. That's we've looked at that

We don't know exactly what the cause is but we have a pretty good idea and it's that

ideas that it that's probably co2

And so maybe we should curb the consumption of co2 and also

Let's you use our eyes and and logic and say well

Gasoline is a finite resource at some point. It's going to run out

So if we can transition to something that doesn't emit co2

And doesn't burn this

this

Finite resource. Well, why why wouldn't we?

especially if the cars are quicker and uh

Less complex wider and less complex and less maintenance and more ideally suited to the average indiscriminate

non-enthusiast car consumers needs so key point key takeaway leave the gas for us

Yes, I enjoy the the the process of lighting dead dinosaurs on fire. I do

And I don't take it for granted. I when I start a car because I'm my daily is an EV

So I'm one of those assholes right when I start a car. I'm it's exciting. It's a difference. It's it's something

To celebrate and it's something to enjoy and I enjoy the music and I enjoy the revs and I enjoy the vibrations

And I enjoy that whole dance of driving a manual

and I don't

I don't want that to go away

But I think it needs to for the vast majority of transportation in order for us to have

The ability to do that

Well, and I think the regulations that we talked about before like drive by noise regulations and such are sort of

systematically eliminating the joy anyway. So it's like when you have

Perverted the original experience of motoring joy so much that it is basically all but outlawed

And it's like a shadow of the former joy that a true great car experience should be then at some point

You just take the horse out back and shoot it. So I've recently rented a car

I rented a renal twingo

current

But it's now twingo is dead. So this was the last generation twingo the end of an era

I have

Much to say about this, but mostly we are spoiled fucking rotten in this country. This was a 70 69 horsepower

Three-cylinder I've never felt any vibrations like this. The whole car was basically rattling itself apart

It was this is a stilantis product. It was so fucking awful

I mean it was beyond awful like the the clutch was terrible the shifter was terrible the steering was

Wretched beyond belief it rode like an ox cart. It was cute. I'll give it that it was very pretty

I took some pretty pictures on on the water. I was in Greece

And like it's very cute and then you get in you're like the thing is fucking ruined

But what I realized was it's either below 2000 rpm and literally shaking the entire car to the point where it's

Structurally compromised as far as I'm concerned like shit was moving that shouldn't have been moving or it's completely silent

And we are now at a point where you can engineer these these combustion engines to be

Within a within a narrow window to be silent

And then you have to add an active sound and this car had no active sound

So what I can tell and I just the whole experience was so miserable that I kept thinking if this were

Even a 40 horsepower electric car with 10 miles of range. It would have just been a better experience

We are every car on sale today has active sound happening. I don't I can't think of a single one that doesn't

If you've gotten to the point where you have to add the sound back in

I

Feel the brief sorry like you fucked up take the horse out back and shoot it and just move on to what's next and

I think our government's going the opposite direction, and I'm a little bit skirt

Well, good times here here. What a great time to be an enthusiast and

Carmogenation has been provided in this episode. I guess we are on brand are we in abundance?

This was a fully a carmogenated episode wasn't yes. No partial carmogenation

We liked carburetors and we liked cars that stalled out at red lights and we're similar

Okay, well

Yeah, maybe this was the last episode of the carmogen show. We'll see

No

Next week we got to talk about this shipbox rally that you that you did. Oh, you don't think this is going to get us cancelled

I think we're going to get some hate mail. Oh, we're gonna get some hate mail, but I try look

I try to be objective. I'm trying not to have most people not

Come come away from this saying well they presented both sides

But I think where the car industry is concerned it's it's without how could you see it any differently?

It's short term gain for long term

Hurt

And I don't think instant gratification. It is the

Word of the day or the philosophy of the year or decade

Sure. I like to be gratified instantly

Well, I would like some dark chocolate right here. I think didn't happen

Um, that was how we ended this episode of the carmogen next week where Derek talks about the miseries of carbureted

Malays era shitboxes because he did a shitbox rally

And a non shitbox rally. Oh and a very non shitbox, but those are carbureted shitboxes, too

Yes, really expensive carbureted, but still shitty my specialty. All right. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you next week

Why The Malaise Era Was Actually Good — Carmudgeon w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep. 207

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