You Speccy Twit!

Are you ready? Sort of, yeah. Okay. I don't like, I have to say, I don't like it being dark.

It doesn't matter, it's like, it's audio, it's like radio. It doesn't matter whether it's light or

dark. No, but I just don't like the window. I don't like it being dark outside in the window.

It just feels a bit depressing, doesn't it? It is a bit depressing. Well, welcome to Britain.

It is a bit depressing. I should know that by now. Next six months, it's going to be like this.

Cheers. Let's start on a high.

This is The Tyre Kickers. Classic car chat with Max and Matt.

Hello there and welcome to episode 43 of The Tyre Kickers, the classic car podcast that very nearly

won an award. Coming up this time... You speccy twit. I beg your pardon? No, no, no, not you.

I'm talking about company car drivers of old who were obsessed about their car's spec. Remember

when a Gear X made you the king of the company car park? We'll remember the reps and their trim

level obsessions. If it's got like headlight washers, you look in the mirror and it's got

headlight washers. You think, oh my God, it's an SRA, it's a CDI, it's a GSA. Also in this episode,

Max is pining for a silver shadow yet again, but he's worried about taking on a two-ton barge.

So we'll ask, should he just take a deep breath and rolls over and get one? The Tyre Kickers.

Plus we hear from you on the tricky subjects of parking a wet car in a garage and driving

a tatty Merc in London. Also time for some see it, want it choices as we avoid emptying the

dishwasher and instead do something much more productive, flicking through the classifieds.

We are the Tyre Kickers, son, and we've not had our dinner. The Tyre Kickers,

classic car chat. Do you get that reference by the way? No. What's that? It's the Sweeney,

it's the famous one from the Sweeney. Oh, okay, right, right, okay, yes. Now you've said it.

With Max and Matt.

Now, Matthew, I was driving down the motorway yesterday and I noticed the lack of

old-fashioned company cars. There are SUVs, two-door coupes, crossovers, city cars,

all present and correct, but where have all the reps gone? The sales warriors who used to rule

the motorways have been zoomed to death. Teams meetings and virtual conferences have wiped out

all the repmobiles off the face of the fast lane. Yeah, it's very true actually, and I've taken the

boot badge with them. Now, you'll remember how status and seniority were on show via your boot

badge. I mean, GLS meant success, didn't it? Gear meant management, and a humble poverty spec L

said you must sell harder to your motorway mates. Now, I watched a great old BBC documentary last

night about the company car rep. It's on YouTube. It's called Over the Moon with the Cavalier and is

well worth a watch to remember how many people used to ply the motorways and how much they valued

their boot badges and company car spec lists. Here's a rep in a Vauxhall Carlton talking about

what it says on the boot that says about you. First thing to do is if somebody's up your tailgate

wanting to get past, you have a look in the mirror. You can see it's a Vauxhall Cavalier. You have a

look at the bumpers. If it's got colour-coded bumpers, that means if the bumper's painted the

same colour as the car, it's something other than a base. It's got to be at least a GL, so the

chances are it could be a GLI, so you're on a par with that guy, but if it's got like headlight washers,

you look in the mirror and it's got headlight washers. You think, oh my god,

it's an SRI, it's a CDI, it's a GSI, so you eat humble pie, put the car, drop the car down,

put the indicator on and pull over, and you really think very much as he goes past,

but there ain't no way somebody'd go past in a base, not if they're going to the same place as me.

Yeah, it's a great watch that one. There's a very sad rep at the end of it, Max, who gets an

Austin Maestro diesel Clubman. He's been downgraded. I think it's the lowest spec of

them all and he's really, really upset. Here's a quick feel of his pain. When I asked what I

was getting, it said a Maestro, which at first didn't seem too bad, then when it said it was a

diesel Maestro, things started getting worse. When I actually went outside and saw the vehicle,

it was a Maestro diesel Clubman. My heart sunk. I felt absolutely sick. I just handed over the keys

to a two litre injection Cavalier down to a basic Clubman. I was absolutely shattered.

I actually drove it back up to the depot where I work from.

All the staff obviously came out to have a look at the new car and basically fell about laughing.

Apparently, all the staff knew what I was getting in advance. They thought it was highly amusing,

the fact that I felt so let down. Yeah, I did feel a bit sad for him, to be honest. It made me think

about the spec of a car and how much that used to mean. Now, the difference between a Cortina L and

a GL, between a Vauxhall L and a GSI, between the Princess HL and HLS, these were letters that

seriously mattered on the road. Yeah, they really did care about those badges, didn't they? I mean,

there's a guy on that documentary who fought for a Merc and literally fought for it, you know,

in front of his bosses for months. But as soon as he got it, he took the 200e badge off the back.

He said it made people take him more seriously if they didn't know it was a base model. And he left

his clients more impressed because they thought it was a more expensive Merc. It was just the

obsession about it. There was a real hierarchy on the roads as well. He was talking about people

moving out of the way for his Merc. I mean, it doesn't happen now, does it? But then most of the

stuff, if you think about it on the roads back then, and we're talking sort of 90s here, were

Fords, Vauxhalls, what, Peugeots? I mean, they were the kind of mainstay of stuff. Maybe sort

of Renaults and Citroens as well. But BMWs and Mercs and German stuff were a bit more rare and a

bit more expensive. Let's first look at the Vauxhall Cavalier though, Max. This is one where

we can compare the spec levels. I mean, some of those were the difference between life and death

to the company reps, weren't they? Yeah, we're talking seriously sad cars here, to be honest,

because the BMW and the Mercs, that was, you know, that was top level management, wasn't it? The

Vauxhall Cavaliers is where it's at. And we're talking, for clarity here, the Mark II from 1981

to 1988 and the Mark III from 1988 to 1995. So, for example, let's start with the L. That had

base trim, cloth upholstery, manual windows. It only had a radio. It had steel wheels with hub

caps. It just had a Speedo in the center and just fuel and temp instruments on either side.

Yeah, so that's real Povo spec, isn't it? But I mean, that's what you got if you were a sales

rep, a junior sales rep. You got the L, didn't you? And you did, just thinking back to this,

I mean, it's not that long ago, but when a car came past and you don't really do it now,

you would look on the back, wouldn't you, to see what the badge was? Well, you could tell by things

like the steel wheels. If you had hub caps or not, you had steel wheels. That was the base version.

That was the version of shame. So there was a definite pecking order and those steelies gave

it away straight away that you're in Povo spec, didn't they? Or those crap plastic wheel trims.

Or if you had to wind your own windows, if you pulled up at a car park and had to get a ticket

and you were seen furiously exercising your window down, you knew you were in the base spec,

because people otherwise would glide up and just hit the electric window button. And electric

windows, I remember, were a big, big thing. If you had a motor to drop your window, that was cool.

That was cool, because they just didn't exist. So you were pioneering for that GL, because with the

GL, you've got optional velour, you've got stereo cassette, which we were still impressed with back

in the late 80s, early 90s. As you say, electric front windows, whoa, central locking. Now,

electric front windows and central locking were a big thing on mainstream cars, because you say

most cars didn't have it. You needed a jack for that or a Rolls or something like that. Towards

the late 80s, a lot of cars didn't have that. So the GL was quite a big one. And don't forget

the rev counter. You've got the rev counter on the GL just to see how not very fast you were going

or how hard the engine was working, basically. How far you could stretch your 1.6 petrol.

See, there was another spec, though, and there was the SRI, wasn't there? But I don't think that

was a bit of a reach for the company reps, wasn't it? That was the cool one. That was the biggest

injection engine that had sport seats, side skirts, fog lamps. Now, fog lamps were a great telltale of

your spec, weren't they? If you had fog lamps, that was really serious. That had a possible leather

upgrade as well, I think. I mean, actually, I just looked at the Mark II specs of a Cavalier.

There's the base model, the L, the LI, the LX, the LXI, the GL, GLI, GLS, GLSI, SR, SRI, SRI 130,

and the CDI. I mean, that is a whole class system wrapped up in a car. Yeah, as you said at the very

start, you speccy twit. Well, let's have a look at one of these then. Let's have a look at a Mark

III 94 Cavalier GLS Auto. Now, Auto can be rare. Now, that says GLS on the side, so you really did

know you were in something slightly special, although it looks about as plain as you can

humanly get. It's got a rear wiper, though. That's quite good, isn't it? It's just a bit on my screen,

and I've got to say the actual title is more sexy than your car that reveals itself. We're

looking at sort of, what would you call that, maroon? Yeah, definitely maroon. Maroon with plastic

hubcaps. I mean, the 90s, you know my thought about the 90s. It's the worst decade for car

design in living memory. That is a proper blob, isn't it? That Cavalier. Yeah, I mean, it's got

the plastic bumpers all round and dark plastic handles, those horrible dark plastic wing mirrors

that everybody thought was quite cool in the 90s but weren't. So what, four and a half thousand

they want for this? Yeah, well, move past the price because it's not like four and a half

thousand pence. If you look at picture number 10, now this is the difference in the spec.

Picture number 10, so you've got a radio cassette. You've got lots of those buttons which are blanked

off which don't have a function but you do have a heated rear window. You've got a digital clock

and a digital thermometer. I mean, that was quite a lot for a car in that day and then if you go to

the next picture, you'll see the instrument cluster and that's got a rev counter. Yeah, but thinking

about it, most of the company car choice would have been between Vauxhall and its rival which

is Ford. So let's have a look at what Ford had to offer. I mean, in the late 80s, what was it?

Probably the Sierra blob, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, it was another blob to be honest,

a slightly different blob, probably an uglier one actually than the Cavalier. Their spec was

legendary. If you had the L or popular, do you remember the popular trim which was pretty much

nothing? Steel wheels again, simple or no radio in fact, minimal carpet, all those really,

really ancient 1.3 or 1.6 Pinto engines. That was almost like, yeah, it was an entry level and then

they've gone, right, can we make an even cheaper one? That was punishment level. That was a punishment

beating, wasn't it? So most people would have gone for like the GL, wouldn't they? Radio cassette

now, optional alloys, they weren't a thing, a standard. Velour seats, that's what I remember

the kind of Sierra seats being like. Centre console, electric windows on the front again,

central locking. So those were the desirable things and I think they would have charged you

for every single one of those, wouldn't they? Well, the console was a big thing with Ford. You

could either have a kind of massive gap, a gaping hole or you could have a console where you could

put your sweets or cassette boxes and so that console was a big thing, particularly on Fiestas,

I remember consoles were a massive, massive upgrade. But then again, only Sierra. If you

went to the GLX or the Ghia, you got power steering. Remember, these cars didn't have

power steering, you were pulling them and pushing them around the car park. You got armrests,

steering wheel badges. Do you remember on your steering wheel, if you had a gear badge, you

really arrived, you stared at the badge, look at me, I'm in a Ghia. Then you got a twin speaker

radio cassette and a sports steering wheel. Now, if you have a look at this Ford Sierra GLS, I've

just put up on the screen. So this is a GLS, it's not a Ghia, this is the kind of highest non-Ghia

spec. And I'm just going through the photos to show you an interior picture because there's

something very interesting in this interior picture and it is, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.

So this is, while you're scrolling, I'll describe it. It's a red five-door, you know, with the

black blob of bumper and side skirt around it. It's pretty, yeah, grim looking. Actually, it looks

better from the side and the back than it does from the front. It looks less awful from the side,

doesn't it? And the rear wash wipe as well, that was the thing. They skimped on that in the

80s, didn't they? You were lucky to get a rear wash wipe sometimes. There's 82 pictures of this car,

so you have to excuse me while I'm still going. But actually, if you get to picture 68, you'll see

on this, and this was a massive thing, it had a radio cassette and it had a joystick that you

could move the sound between the two speakers. Do you remember that? Because you could move it around

the quadraphonic sound because it had four speakers, didn't it? A lot of them. So you could get the,

you could move the joystick. It made pretty little difference. Look in the back though,

this is where the reality is. You still have to wind your windows up and down. Yeah, wind your windows.

But I think what we need to do here is wind back to where I feel comfortable, my British Leyland

wheelhouse. Talking about the badge of shame, go on. I mean, I love British Leyland. I wouldn't buy

one, obviously. Oh, sorry, mate. I've taken the roundels off mine. Think British Leyland. Think

what you could get if you couldn't sell sweets to a child. Yes, you'd be rewarded with a Morris

Marina. Now the spec levels on marinas, I do remember this from the 70s, were proper scrooge.

If you had the 1300 Coupe Saloon Estate, I'm going to list these here, you could have the matte black

instrument fascia, easy to read instrumentation. That's because there was just one speed there.

Right, sit in the car, there's nothing there. Describe what you can see. You could get a

two-speed heater, illuminated switches, molded carpets, two speed wipers with electric washer

motor, and a heated rear window. I mean, that is terrible, isn't it? There's basically nothing on

it, is there? I've actually got the brochure here in front of me and I want to read a line from it

about the 1300L Coupe. If you wish to fit a radio, if you wish, i.e. we're not providing you one,

you'll be happy to know we've provided the aerial speaker and wiring loom with full suppression

equipment. So, they're so mean. Thank you so much. They make you fit their own radio, but they say,

oh look, we put the wiring in for you. Yeah, very, very poor. Coming back to the company

car drivers, though, which is how we got into the discussion. Do you think there still is that

competitiveness on the road, or do you think they have just been, you know, everybody's in a Blobo

box now, a Blobo hybrid eco, you know, electric box? And everything comes with everything now,

doesn't it? Well, it's very difficult to tell, isn't it? Because even the base BMWs now come

with the M Sport kit that looks like it could be an M3, but it's not. It's a 1.8. And you don't

really do badges as much. I mean, I don't follow modern cars that much, but it's quite difficult to

tell what your spec is, because everything is dressed up like it's the top of the line, but

it's hiding a 1.5 or 1.6 three-cylinder engine. So, I don't think you do anymore, do you? And also,

do reps, what do reps drive? I suppose Teslas, isn't it? Well, yeah, that's very true. Yeah,

I've got a friend who drives a Tesla for, you know, got it as a company car, hates it, doesn't

want it, bemoans it, but there's no choice now. Everything's been quite narrowed down that kind of,

you know, EV routes, and you can't, you know, the tax on everything's so high. I don't know,

the fun has gone. And actually, go and watch that documentary, because it will,

it took me back. It made me feel a bit nostalgic about driving in the 90s, Max. You know,

the roads did feel a bit more open then, you know. Now, there were no cameras, you know,

there's no average speed camera, or Uless camera, or just signs up, pointless signs up,

making you slow down for no reason. So, it just felt a bit more freer, and the road was open,

and you know, I don't know, it makes you pine for those times. So, it's definitely worth a watch.

The thing that made me recoil in shock is the fact that all the reps pulled up at the

motorway service station, and then they walked to a phone box to make their sales calls. Pre-mobile

phone, you relied on, you relied on the phone boxes, isn't it? I mean, how basic is that?

Simpler times, though, I think. You know, people weren't just, you know, instantly contactable. So,

you were free. I mean, they were in that car on the way to an appointment, on the way back

from an appointment, and you weren't really contactable, apart from your pagers. Do you

remember pagers? There's one of those. I do remember pagers. You and I both had

pagers when we did those jobs, didn't we? It wasn't much point paging us, though.

Just ring the pub, cut out the middleman. Yeah, but it's definitely worth a watch.

Over the Moon with the Cavalier. That's it, yeah. Yeah, it's on YouTube.

It was a BBC documentary from back in the 90s, but there was a moment that was quite amusing,

that guy that got downgraded to an Austin Maestro. He was livid in it.

That Austin Maestro, it was in Clubman spec, which was the lowest of the low,

and I think it was a diesel. So, a diesel Clubman. He was absolutely humiliated,

and he's describing here how he had to take it back to the wife and see what she thought about it.

We both literally sat down and cried. We physically cried.

From going from the Cavalier that I had before down to this,

I just wondered what I'd basically done wrong to deserve it.

And the wife basically said, after looking at it, there's no way I'm going to drive in that.

From this day, that day to this, she's never been in the car. She can't stand the car.

You're listening to The Tye Kickers. This is episode 43, and since the last time we spoke,

what have we been up to, Max? We've eaten pizza off a Porsche. We've got a pat on the head,

but not an award. Yeah, well, they gave us a highly commended, which you told me I should

be very happy about. Yeah, no, I think it was great. I mean, we've got to say congratulations

to the winner of our category, Floating Space. That's a podcast. It's not about classic cars.

It's very clever. It's a post-COVID, thinky, self-improvement podcast thing, but very well done.

Lots of effort gone into that, so hats off. Nicely done. We need to up our game for next

year, Max. Yeah, the key word in that sentence was effort. They don't research Morris Marina

brochures and put them up. That is their weakness. We also did that bonus episode in 67 Sourdough in

North London. What a great place that was. Oh, that was absolutely cracking, wasn't it? That

was like a toy shop for us. I mean, it was the really expensive stuff that we can't afford,

but it's good to have a good look around that. There was a 10,000 mile Series 1 E-type. There

was the Porsche 930 Turbo, which I was obsessed with. There was a Gemballa Porsche Turbo, which

is really rare. Flatnose Turbo. Lots of Porsches, to be honest. I got lost in Porsche model codes.

BMW M5s, and some nice Mercs. You liked that 3.5 litre convertible. Yeah, yeah, I loved that. If

you're wondering what the hell we're talking about, we went to a pizza and classic car restaurant.

It's a really interesting concept in Finchley in North London. It's a mash-up between 67 Sourdough,

which do really nice Sourdough pizzas, and Hexagon Classics, who have, as Max is saying

there, these jaw-dropping concourse classics. And you eat your pizza right next to the cars,

and then when you finish your pizza, you can go and have a look around the cars. So it's a really,

really good idea. The guys are super friendly. We've done a bonus episode on it where we walk

around the cars, and also in our last episode, we just do a sort of sit and eat the pizza and just

get a first reaction kind of place. If you get the chance to go, do go. Book yourself in, go and have

some decent pizza, and look at those cars. If you're into classic cars, it's just a fab place

to go. It's a really nice experience, wasn't it? Yeah, it was fantastic. The food was really nice,

and the cars were great as well. Also, there's another bonus episode that I've just done with

Sam from Southern Cars. Now, do you remember ages ago, I was moaning about flippers, dealers flipping

cars from auction for double the price? She basically got in touch with me and said, don't

talk rubbish, that's what dealers do. So I went up to see her, and we recorded a great bonus episode

with her. Basically, her dad was in the car trade like my dad was. We chatted on about being a

dealer's child in the 1970s and 1980s. We had lots and lots of things to compare. Her father,

I think, was slightly more successful because she went to school in a Lamborghini Miura,

and I went to school in Marinas and Allegro. But we had a great time remembering the kind of 70s

and 80s because it was a lot more Wild West-y as a car dealer. That's a bonus episode now,

which is the one before this one on your podcast provider. Yeah, really good. Listen, go and check

that out. We had a photo done. We've got a new profile photo. Thanks to Ryan O'Donoghue, who,

while we're at that cars and pizza place, just was there taking some snaps and took one of us

a really great location. We could have designed it better. So it's come out really well that.

He was an amazing photographer, just snapped a couple of snaps, and I didn't think about it

again, then saw the photograph and the lighting that he used. I mean, he just used daylight,

he didn't put any lights up. Lighting was cracking. Sadly, some people don't agree,

though, on our Instagram. Joel Benton said, we've got the perfect faces for podcasts. Thank you.

Phil Williams, though, has been a bit more complimentary. He said, it's like Top Gear,

but better eye candy. Ian Leighton on Facebook says, will you always stand the same way around

like Ant and Deck so we don't mix you up? Well, you know, that's the thing, because Ant and Deck,

if you ever see Ant and Deck, they always stand as Ant on the left and Deck on the right. You

watch it, everywhere they go is literally like that. So we might have to do that now. I know

it's been a shock for some of you to see what we look like. Horrifying, I think, to be honest.

I'm sorry, but that's it. The reaction on Instagram was like, oh.

Lots more interaction to the stuff we've been posting over the last couple of weeks on our

socials as well. We put some pics up of that brown Mercedes coupe that we spotted in the streets of

London while we were standing on a street corner recording the last show. It was a ratty looking

Mercedes C280 coupe, a C123. It had tired paint, chewed interior and socialist worker posters

inside. And we asked, is a well-used rat rod cooler better than a shiny concourse car? Well,

this is Alan74 who said no, but I love that they exist. Just get those seats retrimmed and it would

be perfect. I mean, those seats were ripped apart. Obviously, there was an Alsatian in there just

chewing on it. Yeah, it looked like a couple of Alsatians had a fight in there. Studio49 car

spotting on Insta as well. So it's great to see these cars being regularly used and enjoyed.

I'd agree with that. Angela Dust123 says, please take care of her immediately. Well,

yeah, it does look like that. One of those cars where you kind of from 10 feet away go,

oh, that's wow. That's nice. And you get close to it. My God, it's it's a real,

real heap. But it was being used. So, you know, something to think about. I mean,

we talked about also what kind of limo we should use to get to the awards on the last show as well

and boiled it down to, well, let's say a random selection of three. There was a stretch Daimler,

which is obviously pure old school luxury. A Lincoln Continental, which, you know, a big,

bold, very American. And then Max put in this odd choice of an Allegro Vanden Plas.

It's not odd at all. It suits us perfectly.

Pretty odd. Well, Hirschman UK on Instagram said it'd have to be the Daimler.

Gentle's Garage says my first thought was always the Continental.

And Corb2000 said that you, Max, actually in picking the Vanden Plas missed out on the

Wolsey version of the Princess with the 2200 engine.

Oh, yeah. Good point. That had the illuminated Wolsey badge on the grill that was grafted onto

the nose of a princess. It looked awful, but it was very posh at the time.

Lovely. I'll walk over on Facebook. Kevin Bryant says if we were driving,

then it'd have to be an Alvis TD21, a T or TF. We do like the Alvises.

But if we were being driven, which we were hoping to be, then four doors are needed.

Actually, we were driven by a Kia Niro electric car, weren't we, briefly?

But Kevin reckons it should have been an old Royce or a Bentley.

It would have been nice if somebody with a Royce and Bentley would have offered to give us a lift,

but we're still waiting. No, that's true.

Something else I put up on Instagram that I thought would upset Max,

I had to put the Stag back in the garage. Duh, duh, duh. Wet.

Correct. I'm upset. I got caught in a heavy rain shower.

We'd been out for a little evening trip to the pub and had a nice time and came out. He's like,

well, where's that rain come from? But I had to put it back in. So I drove back in the rain,

which was fun, actually. It was with, you know, with what did the wipers work?

The wipers did work. And you forget, if you don't use a classic car in the rain, that actually,

you know, intermittent wipers weren't a thing, were they? So you use ding, ding, ding, ding,

ding, ding. And then you forget you have to have the heater on full blast, don't you?

Yeah, that's true. Because all the water's coming in because it's leaking so badly.

Well, it didn't leak. It was all right. But I mean, all this was not ideal,

but because I got back and obviously the car's warm and I'm having to put it in the garage

because it was a quite heavy rainstorm. Ten minutes of shamming it dry, though,

it sort of dried it all off, sort of certainly on the bodywork. And I left the garage door open

a jar to let the moisture escape. But you're still thinking, oh, my God, is it going to rust away?

If you went there the next morning, you open the door, a little tiny,

little pile of rust connected to four bits of rubber.

Well, we asked what would you risk in your classic car in the rain? And, you know,

what would you do if you did? We got some good answers on Insta, didn't we?

Yeah, Gentles Garage. I use mine in most weather conditions and have used the E12. He's got a BMW

5 Series in heavy rain and it lives outside. That was how they were used back in the day,

right? Correct. That's true. He does say that the roads are being sorted. It's a no, no. And I would

agree. Corb 2000 again says his Stag and 911 are used for long trips away for up to a week when

you just have to accept whatever weather you encounter. Perdue0006.uso said and listen to this

took my Fulvia. Yes, Fulvia. That's a Lancia out in the torrential rain this Monday for its service.

In contrary to all reports, it didn't dissolve. A joy to drive and a massively underrated classic.

Yeah, they are underrated. We need to drive one of those, didn't we? Bear Schmitty said you did

the right thing in taking the Stag out, enjoying your classic in the rain and stabling it when it's

finished. As long as the roads aren't salty, there's nothing wrong with rain. It just gives

you more time together at the end than it did. 350 Monroe says, well, the biggest Jag show in

South Australia is on this weekend, but it's forecast for rain. So although I will probably

attend, the Jags will stay in the shed, I'd say pretty wise. I must have inspired him to do

something because he actually went and he sent us some photos and he said, actually, the rain held

off and it was really good meat. But he said, I actually saw it. I'm going to go and enjoy it.

I think that's what you've got to do, isn't it? The tire kickers, classic car chat with Max and Matt.

Thanks also for the latest reviews you've been posting, too. It all helps in the hustle to get

to the top of the podcast charts. And let's just say we're some way from the top at the moment.

Let's keep pushing. A really nice one landed on Apple Podcasts recently from Bob, who goes by the

handle Lockwood1956. Now, Bob says, I stumbled across your podcast while browsing and have

become addicted. I wonder who he's browsing for. I've binged listened all the episodes.

He says he's got a problem then with Mac. So he's been listening to seven a week, so one a day.

So he asks, would you be good enough to record one a day so I don't have to go cold turkey for

a fortnight? I think cold turkey is a good idea if you're listening to one a day.

It's going to be a bit of a stretch, isn't it? Your head is going to turn into a sponge of nonsense.

We struggle to get one out every two weeks. That's good going, isn't it?

Jago Brett is also pining for us to go weekly. He says, Top Work Guy is still loving your

Pi Weekly podcast. I think there was another podcast about that at the awards, actually.

So keep it coming. Great start to the weekend. But what am I supposed to do every other week?

Do you remember Why Don't You? Go and do something outside instead. Do you remember that song?

We are posting lots of bits and pieces, though, between shows on Facebook and Instagram,

I should say, though. So if you don't follow us there, make sure you do follow us there,

because recent extra bits we've put up on Facebook in the last few days.

Max's dream car, a Princess HLS. I thought you'd get excited. It does look quite good,

actually. That is quite a clean one. And Paul McCartney's old, ugliest sparden.

Oh, ugly. Do you think his spardens are ugly?

Oh, my God, I don't think I've ever seen a Lamborghini that's that ugly.

Oh, I think they're quite nice. I mean, they're very, you know, it's an unusual choice. I mean,

Harry Metcalf from Harry's Garage, he's just put his sparder up for sale at auction, actually,

because he's had it for a few years. Lovely V12 engine, though.

Oh, that's about the best bit of it. The rest of, you can't see the V12, but you can see the rest

of it. Oh, it's a horrendous design. I think we need to talk about it. It might be one for the

crusher, you know. You can't crush a Lamborghini sparder. Oh, my God.

Yes, you can. That's definitely going on the list.

We'll be arrested. We'll be chased out of town.

I'm chucking in a copy of the Frog Chorus in it when the crusher goes down as well.

Oh, yeah, crush that, yeah.

It's an absolute minger of a car.

I mean, it's not, you know, it's different. It's a very advanced design. I mean, it's very low and

flat, and those times, you know, cars were low and flat. You did kind of recline into them,

particularly Italian cars. So, I think the Espada, you know, it's not classically beautiful,

but it's still a design classic.

I think if it didn't say Lamborghini on the back, you'd say it looked horrible.

I think we need to talk about that one. Right, that's going on the list.

I like that low look. You know, Ford GT40, 40 inches high, that low look was stylish.

Yeah, but the Ford GT40 looks like somebody started at the front and finished at the back.

That looks like it's had two separate people at the channel tunnel.

No, no, no. The Espada was about taking Italian businessmen really quickly across an auto strada

four up. I mean, it was a four up car. You could fit four people in it. I mean, okay,

they were lying flat, but it was a great, great car, and it was really quick, and okay,

it doesn't follow the traditional lines of design, but it was a very bold design for that period.

I like the Espada.

Sounds like a future episode. That one, Crush or Caress?

Think they're right or think they're wrong? Shoot us a note on our socials and let us know.

We're at The Tire Kickers UK on Insta and The Tire Kickers on Facebook.

Episode 43, the one we're calling you Speccy Twit, and since we last spoke,

Max and I have been out kicking tires for real. Now, long suffering listeners may recall that

Max fancies a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow. I mentioned it once, twice, three, ten times,

so he dragged me out to look at another one last week.

Now, I need a winter project. I need something to think about over the long winter. Now,

all those lifestyle podcasts at the awards were encouraging middle-aged men like us to

think about their feelings and their emotions and engage with their inner selves. No, no, no,

thanks. I just don't want to. I want to think about cars and, in particular, Rolls-Royces.

Now, I'll put this Rolls-Royce up on the screen. You and I went to have a look at this,

and I was quite keen on it initially. The more time I spent with it, the more I went off it,

to be honest. I'll give you the phrase that's living in my head at the moment.

There's nothing as expensive as a cheap Rolls. And that was nice from a distance. The closer we

got up, it just wasn't quite right, was it? It had a rusty boot, which is a bad sign because

they leak in the boot. It had bits of filler at the back. It had a bit of rust about it.

The interior was nice, but the bodywork wasn't. It needed a new rear bumper. We looked on the

receipts. It needed an exhaust. It was kind of one of those cars that you could buy it for kind

of like 17,000 and then spend 10 grand on it, and you've still not got a Roller worth 27,000.

There are much better ones out there, which are more expensive but need less doing. So the more

time I spent with it, the more I went off it, really. It had a nice interior, though, and that

really kind of made it. It had been redone recently. The front seats have been redone, which made it

just feel really, really nice. But I think the whole point, the reason we're talking about this

is that you do need a winter project because you bought that SL and it's too perfect. The SL that

you bought, you bought a really, really nice one. You paid the money for it, and you've got something

that just exactly as described works. It doesn't give you grief. Starts, stops, goes. Yeah, exactly.

The only thing you've had to worry about is what shade of cocoa mats to put inside.

So you may have bought your floor mats. The floor mats are really nice, though. You'll have to admit

they do match the interior. But you've got nothing to think about. And this is dangerous. You having

nothing to think about is dangerous because you start getting up to mischief. So we need to find

you something to do, and you need a project. And I just think you need to, you're talking about this

car not being perfect. I think that's what you need. I think you need something to fret about,

something to problem solve. You need a list that you can constantly update, which you're

constantly wrestling the list. This is what you do with a classic. I think the most fun in classics

are probably between 10 and 20,000 because the car's normally okay. No, no, not rollers. Because

also the problem with this, I would spend all my time fretting about getting a remortgage for the

house because it's so expensive to do work on these. I mean, they just are so much money.

That exhaust was two and a half grand for an exhaust on a roller. I mean, that is just hugely

expensive. You know, I do need something to think about. And while I was researching this car,

which is great because it just gives you something to think about, I found these photographs which

are up on your screen now. Let's go through the photographs when it was sold a couple of years

ago from a dealer. Photograph two, nice, three, nice, four, nice, five. Oh, photograph five and

six and seven. At the back, you can see where a patch has been badly welded in and not sprayed

over. And also the rear wheel arches are all crumbly and have got some grot on it, which is

where they rust. But they've been repaired and then they've since started rusting again. So it's

bodywork. And you know, there were lots of filler underneath those cracks. And that's not a good

sign because once you start chipping away at filler, you start doing bodywork, you end up

doing the back of the whole car. And I reckon somebody's been up the chuff of that car. It

looked like somebody had hit it from the back. And that massive iron bumper had been forced into the

bodywork and had skewed it all over. So I think that is a car waiting to basically strip me of all

my money. And I haven't got much. Yeah, it's not a great car to get with bodywork problems. Not just

for the cost of it, but it's a car that shows up bad bodywork, doesn't it? But you know,

other classic cars, you could probably get away with it a little bit more. But a Rolls-Royce,

you do kind of expect to look half decent, don't you? That's a welded patch in the back of it. That

is not a good sign. And also the other thing about it, I've just noticed this, it's got

rear headrests. So it's got headrests in the rear on the back seats, but not headrests on the front

seats. So it was just a bit off to be honest. They didn't have much history with it. It just

didn't give me the, oh, I like this, when I sat in it and drove it. I just think you don't need

perfection. I mean, have a look at this one. I found this for you. This is going to make you

shudder because it's cheaper. It's a 1979 Bentley T2. So the Bentley T2 is essentially the Silver

Shadow too. Nice, yeah. With different badges. This one though is a more interesting one because

it's got 72,000 on the clock, but it hasn't really been used since 2020. Now, okay. So you've got to

think, okay, car that's not been sat around since 2020, potentially I'm going to spend some money

on. But it has been recently recommissioned, lightly recommissioned, which means they've

done a change. Nothing. Light recommissioning means I've done nothing apart from polishing.

Well, they said they spent a thousand on it. It will need further attention as the brakes.

Is that all? It says it's going to need further attention. The brakes are binding, the boot rubber

has perished and the nearside electric windows don't work. Well, that's your winter. Sort it out.

No, it's not. Sorting all that stuff out. I mean, the brakes on a Silver Shadow, they're so complicated.

It's just so expensive to fix. Boot rubber's perished. That means the boot will be rotten.

Nearside electric windows don't work. So one side of the car, electric windows don't work.

Now, that'll just take forever to get that fixed. I don't think you'd like me very much, to be honest,

if you're trying to give me this car, because it will just go on forever. Cheap rolls are a headache.

I think I might have to grit my teeth and spend more on one, buy a slightly better one and just

have less things to do. This is the problem with you. You see, you're saying you need a winter

project and then what you're going to do is save up and go for the best one you can find and then

have nothing to do. I mean, probably maybe a Rolls is not the right car. Maybe you need to come down

a bit and find something else that needs a little bit more that you could get your hands dirty.

You can do it. I mean, like on the Stag, for example, this winter I've got on my list to do

and I'm in an hour about whether to do it. There's a few essential bits to do,

but the interior, I think, just needs lifting up. That's the one thing the car does. The outside

paint job is great. The chrome's in good condition. It's just the interior that needs to lift up for

me and I just think that could just literally just glow it up a bit. You see, I have a problem

with you doing this because you are hoping that underneath the Stag interior there's going to be

a better Stag interior, but it's not. It's a BL car. You're going to peel back the onion and find

out, oh, I've got an onion because it doesn't get any better the deeper you delve into a Stag. It

just gets cheaper and cheaper. I'm not sure the point about this. I think you're going to be

disappointed. No, I'm not. I'm not because I've looked into it and that's what the hobby has come

good because it's given me something to look at. So, I now know I can get a veneer kit that I can

get the dashboard out and I know how to do that. Again, that's a YouTube thing of looking at how

that's done. Broken screws. No, no, no. It's fine. I've already had one bit of the dash out already

just looking at it. So, here's my plan for the winter. I'm going to re-veneer the dashboard.

I'm going to change all the switches so they're up to date. I'm going to tidy up the ashtray,

repaint that so it looks good and then I'm going to fit new LEDs, green LEDs in the dashboard so

it's nice and light and bright and that will instantly do that. Now, okay, that's going to be

a little bit of a job. It's not too bad but it will give me something to do and that's the challenge

and I think if you go and do what you're talking about doing now which is hunt down the best Rolls

Royce that needs nothing doing to it, you're going to have nothing to do. Now, even if you don't do

that yourself, you could give it to somebody else to do, it still gives you that list and if I look

on my Stag list, I run a running list of stuff that it needs doing. I mean, I need the fan belt.

Of course, there's loads of stuff that needs doing.

But I did it on the last one and that's part of the joy of having it slightly imperfect.

I didn't remember you having much joy about that at the time. I remember that,

in fact, I'm just looking down a list of swear words that I'm writing that you can use while

you're taking your Stag apart because they are notoriously fiddly and things on BL cars

do break when they come apart. I have on my list, on the bottom,

actually, as part of it. Is this the swear word list?

This isn't a swear word list but I've actually started writing a Christmas list because, you

know, we're getting to that time of year and people go, oh, what do you want for Christmas?

I say, I don't want tat, I want, and some interior LED lights.

Better known as tat.

And some pedal rubbers and some wheel sensors.

You want some BL tat, basically, that's what you want.

You know, honestly, you need something to think about and I think if you're going to go for a

Rolls and you're going to be frightened again about, you know, the amount of cost of doing

stuff and you're going to pay over the odds for something.

It won't be over the odds, it will be slightly over the odds.

It will be over the odds because if you listen to our bonus episode on buying a Silver Shadow,

which is like, what, 10, 15 episodes ago?

One of the things that Ben from Frank Dale talked about is that you don't need to spend

a hell of a lot on a Shadow.

You just need to find one with good bodywork and the one that the engine's been looked after.

And he said a lot of it isn't too scary, you know, I mean, you're talking about exhaust

and stuff like that, you know, just make sure that sort of stuff is done.

But if you buy it, you don't need to buy at the top, top, top, top, top end.

Or buy one that's a bit ratty and run around in that.

I'm not sure I could do that.

I mean, you know, we're talking about that Merc we saw in London that a dog had chewed

the interior.

I admire somebody for driving around in there, but that's not me.

I couldn't do that.

You know, it would just be driving me mad.

I think with a Shadow, because it's funny, I was looking at the receipts of the one that

we looked at and in the receipts there was a letter from the person who was doing the

work saying, I've quoted you four and a half thousand pounds for this work and you've paid

me two thousand pounds on account.

Can you please settle the rest of the balance?

Because you can't run them on a budget if they're not very good.

And that's why I think I would be saving myself money by finding a better one and doing a

little bit of work rather than finding a cheap one and doing a whole load of work.

You're going to be back to the same problem.

You're going to park it in your garage.

You're going to put it on a trickle charger and there's nothing to do.

There will always be something to do with the roles.

There will always be something.

Something will always go wrong and you do need to use them.

I was talking to Sam from Southern Cars about Silver Shadows and you do need to use them.

Otherwise they do kind of seize up.

So I'd just use it and I'd spend the money I'd save on a rubbish one by putting petrol in it.

I think you need something that's going to give you, I think you need to probably look

at something else like a jag or something like that.

Something that you know there's going to be a bit more involved.

Ian, the problem with jags, it just doesn't give you that Rolls Royce

tingle, does it?

I suppose that's the best way of describing it.

A Rolls Royce is an event and a jag isn't really an event.

Yeah, it's true.

The only thing with the Rolls though, and I think the more I think about it as you're

talking about it and I'm talking about this list, there's stuff in a Rolls that I just

wouldn't tackle.

I mean, you know, I'm talking about the dashboard.

And the reason I can talk about doing the dashboard and the stag is because the original

one was cheap and rubbish and I know that it comes to bits and I know that I can get

a stick-on kit that there's a re-veneer kit to it.

It comes to bits, it doesn't go back together.

That's the problem.

It's going to be the problem.

I think a Rolls is not DIY friendly and I think that's what you need.

You need a DIY friendly car.

One that you can do it until you can fiddle with it until you get to the point of, you

know, it's beyond your skill and you can get someone to do it.

I mean, there's certain things on my list, for example, look, squeaky fan belts.

I need to see the specialist to get those done because they're just a little bit, you

know, you just got to get them right.

But other things, I've got a squeaky seat that just needs sorting out.

You know, I can do that.

Grease the roof frame.

I've got to do something with the wipers.

I've got a couple of boot patches that I glued back in.

I've ticked through a lot of these, actually.

I fixed the windscreen washer.

It's just little things, but they're little wins that you can do that give you a pleasure.

And then the rest of it, say the refurb, I've got this long list here of what I'm going

to do and what I'm going to buy and what I'm going to do.

And it'll give me pleasure.

So hopefully next spring, I'm going to open the door of that interior and I'm going to

see a car and go, actually, you know, this looks better than it did last time.

I think that's really good because you take your little wins and they build up to your

big dashboard fail.

Right, we're not done yet.

So pull up a chair and let's start surfing some classifieds in our regular feature.

See it.

Want it.

Now, this is usually the stuff that we send each other in between doing the podcast, but

we'll share them with you.

The usual sort of flotsam and jetsam of the classic car trade.

Max, what have you got?

This is like the inner workings of our mind, and it's not pretty.

I mean, I've discarded 48 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadows, which I was going to show you.

But first up, here's something very different, which I spotted in a dealer in Lancashire.

This is a 1967 Alfa Romeo 1600 Spyder Duetto.

Now, this one is in blue.

It's from Johannesburg.

It's absolutely gorgeous.

It's horrendously expensive.

It's nearly £60,000, which is a lot for these Duettos because we saw one at auction

two or three weeks ago, which was a 1600.

It went for £19,000.

Anyway, this one is perfect.

Beautiful colour.

It's been completely restored in Cape Town.

New bearings, synchro rings.

And I think these Duettos, you know I love these.

They're so, so pretty cars.

Absolutely gorgeous.

And in this unusual blue, it looks very different from the reds and the whites that we normally see.

This blue is just absolutely perfect.

I love Duettos, and I love it in an unusual colour.

This is so peak, Max, because where the rest of us are looking at cars on, you know, the

classified ads and Facebook marketplace and off someone's driveway, Max is looking at one

on a really high-class dealer's website, where it's actually got its own webpage,

this car, including beautiful photography.

In fact, it's just worth going on and looking at the car, even if you have no intention

of buying it, just to enjoy these photos.

Or anything like me.

Yeah, exactly.

We'll give a mention to this.

This is on tomhardman.com.

We'll give him a plug because they've done a beautiful job of setting this out.

I mean, it's like a homage to the car, isn't it?

It's absolutely stunning.

And the pictures are beautiful on it.

So, yeah, it's an F-Rage in blue.

Duetto Max.

Look at this thing about the boattails.

He's obsessed with the boattails.

But this one does look really…

Quite funny, too.

Because if you had a Camtel, you'd always know, oh, there's a boattail out there, and

it's just so much prettier.

I think they're both beautiful.

But this one is particularly nice.

Go and have a look at that one.

That is…

Beautiful red interior as well.

Look at that.

And what's this up for?

£59,995.

So it's a lot of money.

It is a lot of money.

But I suppose, you know, it's always the problem.

Go and find another one in that condition.

Because, actually, if you restored one to that condition, that would be much, much more

than £60,000 worth of work.

We're talking about restored Alphas.

Let's spool on to this one that I found.

1972 Alpha 105, a 2000.

So the Coupe in red.

I've got this sort of romantic idea about driving a car that's the same age as me.

So they didn't have a 1981.

So I've gone for 1972.

So a clapped-out 72 car to match the clapped-out 72 driver.

Hooray!

Unlike me, this has undergone restoration work, costing £20,000.

And this looks nice.

Yeah, it does look nice.

And it presents and drives beautifully.

So does the listing.

Engine and gearbox rebuilt prior to recent work.

And I do like these 105 Coupes.

I think they sound good if they're set up right and they're in nice condition.

They're super, super fun.

And I just think they look achingly cool.

Well, Alphaholics do great, great work with these.

So this is a GTV, isn't it, basically?

It's the 105 series.

It's basically the same as the Spyder, isn't it?

It's the same chassis as the Spyder, just different body.

It's the full headlight version of the GTV.

Absolutely gorgeous.

And if you watch any of the Alphaholics videos on these, the way they tune them up is amazing.

They can make them go so quickly and just sound absolutely amazing.

Chris Harris did a video, one of the Alphaholics ones.

And it was just on fire, that thing.

It's beautiful.

Yeah, I mean, the Alphaholics are tuned up sort of things.

I don't necessarily want it to rag it.

I just want to just waft around in it, really.

Or rasp around in it.

I think it'd be beautiful.

And that one's had the work done.

So that's a good one.

And I think...

How much is that?

It's not cheap.

It's 56 grand.

But that is quite X-y for one of these.

But I think, you know, as we've talked about with restorations,

you know, you will probably spend more.

They've spent more on that than you'll pay for it.

But beautiful looking car.

Now, here's one that I'd kind of forgotten until Sam from Southern Cars on the podcast,

the one back, the one that we've just done, was talking about in great detail.

The Porsche 928.

Now, I'd forgotten about these, really.

But actually, Porsche 928s are really, really good cars.

If you look at the one on the screen, this was up for sale by here.

And we had a quick look at it.

It's in Minerva Blue, which is a bright blue, with the Porsche Pasha interior.

So it's a 1979 Porsche 928.

Quite an early one.

All that beautiful kind of spaceship looks about them.

And this psychedelic, fantastic interior.

928s are great cars.

Quite complicated engines.

But again, quite reliable if you look after them.

They're really cheap at the moment, 928s, for actually what you get, which is a Porsche V8.

They're not that much money.

They're kind of forgotten about by the classic car market, overlooked.

Maybe it's because they're an auto.

But look at that Pasha trim on photograph 19.

I mean, it's psychedelic.

It's cool.

You're going to be miserable about them, aren't you?

No, you're going to be surprised, because I think that looks quite kooky and cool.

And I think if that was parked next to a 911, I'd go and look at this first.

Because I just think it's just very, very period, very dated.

It's giving me Delorean vibes a bit.

I don't want to say it, but Renault Fuego vibes as well.

Yeah, another nice car.

I mean, it copied the same kind of design language, didn't it?

I mean, all the things that you're talking about make it interesting.

The V8, the fact that it's just slightly underappreciated.

It's a bit under the radar.

The pop-up headlights that look like frog eyes look quite cool.

I just think it's interesting.

I think it'd be an interesting one to drive.

I can't get excited about 911s.

The one thing I would say, though, if you buy one, Matt,

please don't take the dashboard apart.

Because if you think the snag is complicated, a 928 is just absolutely fearsome.

Well, let's go.

Let's talk about something you probably wouldn't have to take the dashboard apart in.

And that's this Mercedes 123 that we spotted.

We're getting a little bit.

It's obviously getting old, aren't we?

Because we're getting quite excited about these old Mercedes.

That's not the case, is it?

123, I sort of had a bit of a blind spot to for a while.

Because I really, really like the look of the 70s ones, the stacked headlights ones.

But these 123s, I just think, are increasingly becoming quite a good argument to have.

I mean, the coupe is the one that I really, really sort of lust after.

But this particular one, it's in Labrador blue.

And it's up at the Southwestern vehicle auctions this week,

actually, a couple of days after recording this.

So it'll be interesting to see what it goes for.

The last time we saw one of these down there, there were two people scrapping over it.

And it went for about 22 grand, didn't it?

Yeah.

This one's made in 1977.

It's in the light blue 280e.

So it's the straight six.

It's the one that you want.

Hasn't got the coloured wheel hubs.

But it's got the alloys that came with it.

109,000 miles.

These are the Mexican hat alloys that Mercedes made in the 70s.

It's the right wheel for the car, because the 280s had those Mexican hats.

Cream leather interior.

Well, it'll be MBTEX, won't it, really?

But it looks really, really nice.

And I think it's a really interesting one to do.

So we'll maybe pick that up on the next episode and see what it went for.

W123s are still a great, great buy, because you get a really good car.

It's a really interesting car.

There's lots of parts for them, as long as you don't choose the coupe.

And, you know, they go on and on.

And particularly that car.

You know, there's lots of 230s and 200s with a four cylinder.

The six cylinder is the one to get.

I'll be really interested to see what that goes for.

It's the perfect car for you.

You know why?

Why?

Because like you, it goes on and on.

That didn't quite work.

If you put a jingle at the end of any punchline, it kind of brightens it up, doesn't it?

On and on, the car?

Or are we talking about you?

Is the punchline continuing?

I thought the punchline had finished.

It's an option, a mildly less funny one.

Right, that's it.

Time's up.

Go and work harder for that Marina HL company saloon with the coin tray and the headrests.

We'll be kicking the tyres and checking out all the action at the classic motor show

up at the Birmingham NEC.

We'll be on the show floor, mic in hand, finding the best stuff to talk about.

Plus, we'll be live in the podcast cafe on the Saturday.

So come and watch us perform like circus animals.

All the chat, all the moaning, all the cars, and quite possibly,

definitely some bickering between me and him.

It's all coming up on the next show.

In the meantime, don't forget to check out our bonus episodes.

There's that one we mentioned about the pizza place with concourse classics.

Hear us dribble at the pizzas and then drool over the cars.

Sorry about that.

And there's also confessions of a classic car dealer as I meet Sam from Southern Cars.

We talk about what it's really like to be in the trade and why it's all about buying smart.

Both of those episodes are on our playlist.

All you got to do is scroll back to find them a bit like Max when he's

trying to find his birth year on those website forms.

Scrolling down for some, some time.

So let's stick some four star in the tank and head for Birmingham.

We'll see you at the NEC.

Until then, it's bye from me.

And it's bye from me.

Goodbye.

No, not too many edits.

That's that's the.

No, none at all.

Barely one.

You managed to do that in one take.

You Speccy Twit!

About this episode

Merc

SUVs

two-door coupes

crossovers

city cars

boot badge

Austin Maestro Clubman diesel

spec of a car

BMW

Vauxhall Cavalier Mark II

hub caps

Speedo

electric windows

SRI

Chevrolet Cavalier Mark II

CDI

rear wiper

dark plastic wing mirrors

plastic bumpers

heated rear window

Ford

Porsche 930 Turbo

seats retrimmed

Kia Niro electric car

Lamborghini

Rolls Royce

fan belt

Alphaholics

restorations

V8

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