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The crack in Toyota's reputation

The Drivecast

The crack in Toyota's reputation

112 annotations

Toyota’s reputation for reliability takes center stage as The Drivecast connects a wave of engine and transmission problems to recalls, class actions, and a shift from the older V8 era to turbo V6 and hybrid powertrains. Hosts dig into the alleged root cause—manufacturing debris (“swarf”) contaminating engines and spinning bearings—while debating whether fixes are truly working. They also weigh buyer trust, warranty coverage, and resale risk, arguing the “image” of the problem can outpace reality.

0:00 --:--

01:41

Term

3.4-liter twin-turbo V6

This is a specific type of Toyota/Lexus engine: a V6 with two turbochargers. The hosts are saying that this engine has a recall issue where debris left inside the engine during building can cause sudden, catastrophic failures.

02:11

Term

hybrid turbo V6 era

This phrase means Toyota planned to use a turbocharged V6 engine along with a hybrid system. The hosts are questioning whether that plan worked out, given the engine problems now being reported.

02:32

Concept

reliability crisis

A reliability crisis means people start losing confidence that a brand’s cars will keep working properly. In this episode, the hosts connect that idea to the big recall and engine failures they’re describing.

04:45

Toyota Tundra

Car

Toyota Tundra

The Toyota Tundra is Toyota’s big pickup truck. In this segment, the host talks about how it’s set up for real truck jobs like towing, and how its engine/exhaust choices affect the driving experience.

05:15

Term

TRD performance package

TRD is Toyota’s in-house performance brand. A TRD performance package is a set of factory upgrades meant to make the truck feel and sound more “performance” oriented.

05:15

Term

catback exhaust

A catback exhaust is an exhaust upgrade that replaces the parts from the catalytic converter to the back of the truck. It’s mainly done to change the sound (and sometimes how freely the exhaust flows).

05:25

Term

V6

A V6 is an engine with six cylinders arranged in a V shape. The host is saying the Tundra is moving to a V6, and that changes things like complexity and how it sounds compared with older V8 setups.

05:25

Concept

moving to a V6 powertrain

This phrase means Toyota changed the Tundra’s main engine type to a V6. The host’s point is that it can still tow and work like a truck, but it’s not the same as the older V8 approach.

05:50

Term

V8

A V8 is a type of engine with eight cylinders. In trucks, it’s often chosen for strong pulling power, so when a brand moves away from V8s, people notice.

06:30

Term

turbo six

A “turbo six” is a six-cylinder engine that uses a turbocharger. The turbo helps the engine make more power without needing a bigger engine.

06:47

Term

stouter transmission

A “stouter transmission” means the truck’s shifting unit is built tougher. That helps it survive harder use like towing and hauling.

06:47

Term

fully boxed frame

A boxed frame is the truck’s main metal structure under the body. Making it “fully boxed” usually makes it stronger and helps it handle heavy work better.

07:01

Term

composite bed

A composite bed is a truck bed made from materials other than steel. The benefit is it doesn’t rust the way a steel bed can.

07:15

Term

trim lineup

A trim lineup is the menu of different versions of the same truck. Some trims are more basic, and others add features—like off-road gear—so more types of buyers can choose what they want.

07:15

Term

trim lock

“Trim lock” sounds like how the manufacturer bundles options into specific versions of the truck. Instead of mixing and matching everything, certain off-road features come with certain trims.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to The Drive Cast.

I'm Kyle Choromka, Editor-in-Chief of The Drive.

And I'm Joel Federer, The Drive's Director of Content and Product.

And I'm Caleb Jacobs, Senior Editor at The Drive.

We got a trio today, and The Drive Cast is our weekly podcast giving you an inside look

at the biggest stories, controversies, and people shaping the automotive industry.

Before we get into it, yes, I'm back after a busy few weeks, and shout out to Joel for

running the show while I've been away.

If you haven't listened to his interview with Stalantis' head of American brands and

Ram CEO Tim Kuniscus on last week's episode yet, you missed a really fun time.

Great conversation, a lot of news being broken, just prime Drive Cast stuff.

So go check that out.

But today, we are talking about Toyota, the world's largest automaker, who for decades

has been known for building more reliable cars than anyone else.

But lately, some big cracks are starting to form in that foundation.

Indeed they have, Kyle.

Toyota historically has been reliable to a fault.

You might even say boring, though it's done a lot to try and shed that image.

But I think a lot of people would be fine with going back to boring instead of where

we are today.

If our tips inboxes any indication, engine failures, transmission issues, warranty drama,

and class action lawsuits tied to some of its most popular models, we got a problem.

By the way, our email is tips at thedrive.com.

Keep them coming, boys and girls.

Yeah, it's almost hard to believe that we're sitting here talking about this.

Toyota of all manufacturers.

But given the amount of digital ink we've spilled on this topic over the last two years,

it's time.

Unreal, yet so very real.

Last month, Toyota added another 44,000 vehicles to its ongoing recall of Tundra pickups and

Lexus SUVs with the company's troubled 3.4-liter twin-turbo V6.

Bringing the total to nearly 270,000 trucks over the last two years.

And this isn't some precautionary move.

Metal debris left in the engine during assembly is causing sudden and catastrophic failures.

A previous attempt to stop it didn't work, and so far Toyota has had to replace tens

of thousands of engines for free.

When the new Tundra launched in 2022, it dropped the old bulletproof V8 and was supposed to

move Toyota into a new hybrid turbo V6 era.

Now, as other pickup manufacturers are recommitting to V8s, people are starting to wonder, did

Toyota make a huge mistake here, and is its dependable reputation gone for good, or can

Toyota find its way back?

So today, it's Toyota's reliability crisis.

How it ended up here, what's really happening beyond the headlines, and what might be next.

By the way, if you like what we're doing here, do us a favor and hit us with a five-star

review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

It really does help get the drive cast in front of more people.

OK, let's go.

All right, I'm back.

Did you guys miss me?

I always miss you.

Highlight of my week was talking to you.

Maybe you guys shouldn't say that.

My wife doesn't listen to this, so this is fine.

Likewise, likewise.

No one who actually loves us listens to this stuff, but anyway.

I thought your mom listens to this and called you about worried about life.

Yeah, yeah, thank you for the whole biblical plagues reference.

I got a very concerned text from my mom wondering if everything was OK.

I am OK.

No plagues here.

I love that your mom listens.

Yeah, she does, she does.

She's very supportive.

But before we actually get into it, I just want to note that it has been just about one

year, Joel, since you joined the drive.

Pretty amazing what we're up to these days compared to where we were a year ago.

Happy anniversary, man.

Thank you.

I mean, you know, the irony here is that we actually have Caleb on the podcast today.

And it was last week or something.

I don't remember that he's the one who reminded me because it's on his birthday.

It's my anniversary of being at the drive.

And so he was like, you know, my birthday is coming up.

And it was kind of like a like I was like, yeah, because it's on my calendar.

I'm like, yeah, man, it is like I'm really excited for your birthday.

I didn't know what to say.

He's like, which means you've been here a year because your birth, my birthday is

the day you started.

I was like, oh, wow.

Like, so Caleb remembered before me.

I've just been a little busy.

Yeah, I'll always remember that.

And thankfully it's on the same day every year.

So don't have to worry about it.

We get to celebrate together.

Yeah, we've been busy.

We sure have been busy.

It's hard to believe that June 1st was or June 2nd, whenever it was

that you started was literally a year ago.

But here we are.

Here we are.

And here is Toyota.

All right.

Now, Joel, that I see that you actually just had a Tundra and then Alexis GX,

both of those that have the engine we're talking about here,

that troublesome twin turbo V6.

You did.

It's true, which it's just coincidence.

I swear, like I did not plan that.

That's not how this was going to happen.

They just came into the fleet, the Toyota Tundra.

It was that new TRD pro wave maker blue.

And I wanted to do a story about colors and blue.

And it was a great, great backdrop for that photo.

So it is ironic that we're about to talk about these cars.

And I just spent a week in each of these with these engines.

And so, yeah, that's it's fresh in my memory, you might say.

And neither of them blew up, correct?

I think I would have heard something about that.

You would have heard something about them.

Neither of them blew up.

The Tundra I did tow boats with and it is still not blow up.

So no, they did not blow up.

But the Tundra had a TRD performance package and had the the catback exhaust.

My wife had some thoughts.

Mainly, this is annoying.

And when does this truck leave?

That's a great point to dive into this because the Toyota moving to a V6,

it can still do the truck things.

It's not short on capability.

However, it is still a lot more complex than a V8.

It sounds different, especially with that exhaust.

And the irony of all of this is that Toyota made this decision to move

to a V6 powertrain in the Tundra.

Meanwhile, GM, Ram, Ford, they still all offer V8s.

Ram just got back into the V8 game with the with the Hemi coming back

and the Badger protest and all of that.

It's like two years ago, three years ago, four years ago,

when Toyota made the decision to launch the Tundra like this and say,

we're done with V8s, like, did that age very well?

One could argue, no.

OK, so, Joel, how did we get here?

How do we get here with a V6 Tundra that is, by all respects, far less

reliable than the Tundra it replaced?

So for those that aren't like, you know, Toyota Fnatics or Tundra Fnatics

or truck Fnatics, just a quick high level, we're on the third generation

Tundra, which, by the way, is kind of insane to think we're like 30 ish years

into this and we're on the third generation Tundra.

The second generation Tundra, the one that had the venerable 5.7 liter V8,

which is what this turbo six replaced, that had a 14 year lifespan,

which is it was old enough to get bar mitzvah.

This is crazy.

So the new Tundra moved the bar a huge way for this generation.

We got a fully boxed frame and we got a stouter transmission.

We got a turbo six instead of a V8, but it's a bigger truck.

It's a more competitive truck, but it kept a lot of the things

that made the Tundra what it is compared to the other trucks.

So like it had, it has a low bedside compared to the other trucks.

So you can reach into your bed, it has composite bed now,

which the composite bed can't rust.

There are other downsides to that though, of course, it has a bigger cab

so it competes with the other trucks at that level.

And it expanded the trim lineup and trim lock with off road models

and all these other things.

And so it is more competitive in many regards.

And most importantly, it still has the rear glass of the cab

that slides down fully, which is such a clutch feature.

I can't even, it's a cool feature that, you know, you get in a forerunner or whatever,

but it's the only truck on sale that has that.

I wish the Rivian had that. I really do.

So anyway, that's like that's how we got here, right?

Three generations of Tundra's first two head V8s, bulletproof reliability.

They'd rust out before they stopped working forever.

And that's just not the case of the current Tundra.

Yeah, it is true that Toyota out of a lot of companies has historically

done very long model runs before moving to a next generation.

That is one of the reasons why they had developed this reputation for

liabilities because they didn't take a lot of chances.

They figured out how to make a vehicle, made it for 89 10, 14 years

and then very carefully developed the next one to build on that reputation.

Part of what we're seeing here, because it's not just Tundra that's having an issue,

part of what we're seeing here is that Toyota just had a convergence

of model year or generational changeovers in the last four or five years.

And just they made a lot of changes this time to move into the hybrid era,

the V6 era, the electrification era.

And it's kind of growing pains in some respect,

but that doesn't make anybody feel better when you are talking about

literally hundreds of thousands of engines possibly failing randomly and catastrophically.

Yeah, and we're talking about a company that just moved from a five speed

automatic in the forerunner to what they have now also ditching drum brakes

on the Tacoma to go to disc brakes.

Like all of this is happening at the same time.

So while other automakers were making those changes years ago,

suddenly it's like, OK, we got to figure out how to make all of this work together

across different models, platform sharing.

Yeah, it is a big moment that they had to do so much all at once.

And maybe some of that's to blame here, hard to say for sure.

And in fact, on that note, one of the class action lawsuits they're facing

right now is related to one of their new eight speed transmissions

that was supposed to level up and modernize a number of cars

that's used in, I don't know how many, but several several really popular models.

And it's not it's not going great.

Not so good, not so good.

All right, now we have that background.

We have these turbo sixes, things aren't going so good.

What exactly is happening?

What's the problem here?

Yeah, so like we kind of touched on in the intro,

I've been talking about this for about two years at this point,

which is crazy to think we started to see pictures of Tundras

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