A deep dive into the Electric Vehicle Council's latest report reveals significant growth in Australia's EV market, with a 24% increase in sales compared to last year. The discussion highlights the importance of charging infrastructure, the impact of vehicle efficiency standards, and the role of plug-in hybrids as a stepping stone to full electrification. Guests Amman from the EV Council shares insights on market trends, challenges, and the need for better government incentives. The hosts also review their experiences with the new IM models from MG Motor, comparing them to competitors like Tesla.
We talk to Aman Gaur from the Electric Vehicle Council about their annual State of EVs report.
What's selling, and what risks are there on the future of EVs in Australia.
And how does Government policy influence sales
Get in touch, SMS us thanks to Vodafone on 0477 657 657
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"yes the IM by MG Motor yes and I got the IM-5 I got the IM-6 I got the more the minds the SUV shape yep minds the sedan so let's let's just put the rubber to the road here"
The MG IM-5 is a type of electric car made by MG Motor. It's designed to be an affordable option for people looking for a sedan that runs on electricity instead of gasoline.
The MG IM-5 is a sedan model produced by MG Motor, a brand known for its affordable electric vehicles. It competes in the growing market of electric sedans.
"yes the IM by MG Motor yes and I got the IM-5 I got the IM-6 I got the more the minds the SUV shape yep minds the sedan so let's let's just put the rubber to the road here"
The MG IM-6 is an electric SUV made by MG Motor. It's larger than the IM-5 sedan and offers more space for passengers and cargo.
The MG IM-6 is an SUV model from MG Motor, designed to offer a spacious and practical electric vehicle option. It complements the IM-5 sedan in MG's electric lineup.
"the premium base model is about $60,000 so 62 drive away and the performance top-end model about 80 81,000 drive away in New South Wales mine was in a nevus blue not a bad color"
Drive away price is the total amount you pay to buy a car, including everything like taxes and fees. It means you can take the car home without worrying about extra costs later.
Drive away price refers to the total cost of purchasing a vehicle, including all fees, taxes, and charges, meaning the buyer can drive the car off the lot without any additional payments. This term is commonly used in car sales to provide transparency in pricing.
"...there's an ADAS button on that yeah so you get in the car you've got to go yeah I agree to the world first and then you go ADAS turn off turn off turn off warning okay agree..."
ADAS is a technology in cars that helps drivers by providing features like automatic braking and lane assistance. It makes driving safer and easier by helping to prevent accidents.
ADAS stands for Advanced Driver Assistance Systems, which includes various safety features like lane-keeping assist, adaptive cruise control, and automatic emergency braking. These systems aim to enhance vehicle safety and improve the driving experience.
"...it's a new brand but they are putting the MG motor label on the back of it which is very smart do that yes because honestly I think it's a stupid idea to introduce a brand new brand..."
MG is a car brand from Britain that makes both traditional and electric cars. They have been around for a long time and are known for making affordable vehicles.
MG is a British automotive brand known for its sports cars and more recently for producing affordable vehicles, including electric models. The brand has a rich history dating back to the 1920s and has been revitalized in recent years under new ownership.
"it MG motor on the car yeah because the main badge said IM with the fancy design of the logo yeah"
MG Motor is a car brand known for making sporty and affordable vehicles. It has been around for a long time and has recently come back with new models.
MG Motor is a British automotive marque that specializes in producing affordable cars with a sporty image. It has a rich history and has been reintroduced in various markets with new models.
"which is like Toyota saying this is a Lexus presented by Toyota"
Toyota is a big car company from Japan that makes many different types of cars. They are known for making reliable and efficient vehicles.
Toyota is a Japanese automotive manufacturer known for its reliable and fuel-efficient vehicles. It is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world and produces a wide range of models, including sedans, SUVs, and hybrids.
"which is like Toyota saying this is a Lexus presented by Toyota"
Lexus is a luxury car brand that is part of Toyota. They make high-end cars that are known for being comfortable and reliable.
Lexus is the luxury vehicle division of Toyota, known for its high-quality, luxury cars and SUVs. It competes with other luxury brands and is recognized for its reliability and customer service.
"you can buy a hundred and twenty thousand dollar EV9 and eighty thousand dollar EV"
The Kia EV9 is a new electric SUV made by Kia. It's designed to be spacious and has the latest technology for drivers who want an electric vehicle.
The Kia EV9 is an all-electric SUV that represents Kia's commitment to electric mobility. It features modern design, advanced technology, and spacious interiors, making it a competitive option in the electric vehicle market.
"...affordable EV sort of you know working class sort of vehicle and this sort of more luxurious because it is it is really nice..."
An EV is a car that runs on electricity instead of gasoline. They are often better for the environment because they produce fewer emissions.
EV stands for electric vehicle, which is a type of vehicle that is powered entirely or partially by electricity. These vehicles are known for being more environmentally friendly compared to traditional gasoline-powered cars.
"...if you put a Mercedes badge on that wheel this is a hundred and twenty thousand dollar car..."
Mercedes is a famous car brand that makes luxury cars. They are known for their high-quality and stylish vehicles.
Mercedes-Benz is a German automotive brand known for luxury vehicles, buses, coaches, and trucks. The brand is recognized for its high-quality engineering and innovative technology.
Car
MG IM5
"this wouldn't apply to the MG IM6 but the IM5 mate the boot's tiny tiny tiny so I went overseas"
The MG IM5 is a small electric car made by MG. It's designed to be affordable and practical for city driving.
The MG IM5 is a compact electric sedan from MG, known for its affordability and practicality. It offers features suitable for urban driving and is part of MG's push into the electric vehicle market.
"I actually took Aaron to the airport him and his fiance and we had opened up the back of the IM6 and plenty room in there"
The MG IM6 is a bigger electric car made by MG. It has more space for luggage and is designed for longer trips.
The MG IM6 is a larger electric sedan from MG, offering more cargo space and features compared to the IM5. It is designed to compete in the growing electric vehicle market with a focus on practicality and range.
"...these friggin electric door handles yeah and the worst part is I'm used to that now but the worst part is they're not mechanical door handles..."
Electric door handles are special handles that open the car door without needing to pull a regular handle. You just touch them, and they work with sensors to open the door for you.
Electric door handles are a modern feature in some vehicles that replace traditional mechanical handles. They often use sensors to detect when a person is nearby and can automatically extend or require a touch to open the door.
"...the worst part is they're not mechanical door handles..."
Mechanical door handles are the regular handles you pull to open a car door. They work by physically moving a latch to unlock the door.
Mechanical door handles are the traditional type of handles that physically pull a latch to open a door. They are straightforward and do not rely on electronic components to function.
"...so there's actually a sensor on the inside of the handle when you touch it it clicks the door partly open..."
A sensor is a small device that can notice things, like when you touch a door handle. It helps the car understand what you want to do, like opening the door.
A sensor in automotive terms is a device that detects changes in the environment and sends that information to the vehicle's systems. In the case of door handles, it detects when a person is trying to open the door.
"...speaking of buttons there's a button to get out as well annoying and that just bamboozled my mother..."
A button in a car is something you press to make something happen, like unlocking the doors or turning on the lights. It's a simple way to control different features in the car.
In automotive contexts, a button refers to a control mechanism that activates a function or feature in the vehicle, such as unlocking doors or starting the engine. They can be physical or touch-sensitive.
"...this in terms of comparing to the model three..."
The Model 3 is a type of electric car made by Tesla. It's known for being fast, having a simple design, and using a big screen instead of many buttons.
The Tesla Model 3 is an all-electric sedan known for its performance, safety features, and advanced technology, including a minimalist interior and reliance on touchscreen controls.
"...there's like Zika Polestar um Kia there's a lot of cars a lot of competition..."
Polestar is a brand that makes electric cars, and it's known for creating high-performance vehicles that are stylish and modern.
Polestar is a performance electric vehicle brand that originated as a performance division of Volvo. It focuses on high-performance electric cars and aims to compete with other electric vehicle manufacturers.
"...my understanding is that a hybrid car without plug-in is not classified by you as an EV but a plug-in hybrid included in your numbers..."
A plug-in hybrid is a car that can run on both electricity and gasoline. You can charge its battery by plugging it in, which lets it drive a certain distance using just electricity before it needs to use gas.
A plug-in hybrid is a type of vehicle that combines a conventional internal combustion engine with an electric motor and a rechargeable battery. This allows the vehicle to operate on electric power alone for a certain distance before switching to gasoline.
"...the BYD Shark 6 for example would have played a huge role in this year's numbers and growth because that has been an absolute gangbuster for BYD..."
The BYD Shark 6 is a car made by a company called BYD, which is known for its electric vehicles. This particular model has been very successful and is helping to increase the number of plug-in hybrid cars on the market.
The BYD Shark 6 is a model from BYD, a Chinese automotive manufacturer known for producing electric vehicles and batteries. This model has gained popularity and significantly contributed to the growth of plug-in hybrids in recent years.
"...can be charged up with electricity with a plug that's an EV now the reason we take that approach..."
An electric vehicle, or EV, is a type of car that runs on electricity instead of gasoline. Some EVs can be charged by plugging them in, while others use a combination of electricity and gasoline.
An electric vehicle (EV) is a car that is powered entirely or partially by electricity. This includes battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), but not conventional gasoline or diesel vehicles.
"...we do consider both plug-in hybrid electric vehicles and battery electric vehicles to be EVs but we do not consider a petrol hybrid to be an EV these are very very..."
Battery electric vehicles are cars that run only on electricity and don't use gasoline at all. They are charged by plugging them into an electric outlet, and they don't produce any exhaust fumes.
Battery electric vehicles (BEVs) are fully electric cars that rely solely on electric power stored in batteries, with no internal combustion engine. They are charged via electric outlets and have no tailpipe emissions.
"In terms of the well the EV numbers are impressive for the sales what do you put that down to? Is it the prices have come down for the cars?"
EVs are cars that run on electricity instead of gas. They are popular because they can save money on fuel and are better for the environment.
EVs, or electric vehicles, are cars that are powered entirely or partially by electricity instead of traditional gasoline or diesel. They are becoming increasingly popular due to lower running costs and environmental benefits.
"I think that point you mentioned about charges being more visible that's probably something we could do better at..."
Charges are places where you can plug in and recharge electric cars. More charging stations make it easier for people to use electric cars.
In the context of electric vehicles, 'charges' refers to charging stations where EVs can be plugged in to recharge their batteries. The availability and visibility of these charging stations can significantly impact the adoption of electric vehicles.
"...the electric car discount has helped a lot of Australians to step into an EV and effectively reduce their cost of transport..."
An electric car discount is a price reduction offered to people who buy electric cars. This helps make electric cars cheaper and encourages more people to choose them.
An electric car discount is a financial incentive provided by governments or organizations to encourage consumers to purchase electric vehicles (EVs). This discount can significantly lower the upfront cost of an EV, making it more accessible to buyers.
"...what is the situation currently with the new vehicle efficiency standards because it was controversial when it was announced and introduced..."
Electric vehicle efficiency standards are rules that car manufacturers must follow to make their cars use less energy and produce fewer emissions. These rules help promote cleaner cars and protect the environment.
Electric vehicle efficiency standards are regulations set to improve the fuel efficiency and reduce emissions of new vehicles. These standards aim to encourage manufacturers to produce more environmentally friendly vehicles and can impact the overall market for both electric and petrol-based cars.
"...the fact they might be able to make some money is that right selling credits to the petrol based companies?"
Selling credits is when car companies can earn special points for making cars that pollute less. They can sell these points to other companies that need help meeting pollution rules.
Selling credits refers to the practice where car manufacturers can earn credits for producing low-emission vehicles, which they can then sell to other manufacturers who may not meet the required emissions standards. This system incentivizes the production of cleaner vehicles.
"...if I'm a big company I'm selling hundreds of thousands of cars a year it's the total of each of those individual cars..."
Fleet sales are when companies buy many cars at once, usually for business use. This is important for car makers because it helps them sell a lot of cars quickly.
Fleet sales refer to the sale of multiple vehicles to businesses or organizations, rather than individual consumers. This model is significant for manufacturers as it provides a steady demand for vehicles, especially for companies that require a large number of cars for their operations.
"second hand market increase in terms of where that's up to we're seeing that yesterday it was noted that electric second hand the second hand market sales in the month just gone increased by roughly eight percent..."
The second hand market is where people buy and sell used cars. It's different from buying new cars, and prices can change based on how many cars are available and how many people want to buy them.
The second hand market refers to the marketplace for used vehicles, where buyers can purchase cars that have had previous owners. This market can fluctuate based on various factors, including supply and demand, economic conditions, and consumer preferences.
"...we've got great news from BYD who frankly lead the market here in every sense..."
BYD is a car company from China that makes electric cars. They are one of the top companies in the world for electric vehicle sales.
BYD is a Chinese automotive company known for its electric vehicles and batteries. It has become a leader in the electric vehicle market, particularly in the production of battery electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids.
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This is Two Blokes talking electric cars with Trevor Long and Stephen Fennick thanks to NRMA
Insurance and Uniden. That's right NRMA Insurance helping Australians protect what matters most
for a hundred years also one of Australia's largest insurers of electric vehicles and Uniden
Smart Dash Camps trying to keep you aware of what's happening on the road around you so that
you've got peace of mind. What happened? Trust me wife it was not my fault. Not my fault. Trust me
insurance company here's the video. Yeah exactly so it's good peace of mind big show today we're
going to talk to the Electric Vehicle Council of Australia about their brand new state of EVs
report it's not just this one page folks it's just the highlights page it's 113 pages of thorough
information about EV so we're going to talk to Amman from the Electric Vehicle Council shortly
and dig deep into that report so stay tuned for that but before we do that we should talk about
what we've been driving Stephen and we both picked up a two of the same car brand but different
models yes the IM by MG Motor yes and I got the IM-5 I got the IM-6 I got the more the
minds the SUV shape yep minds the sedan so let's let's just put the rubber to the road here
model three competitor model one competitor really the IM-5 sedan in the premium base model is
about $60,000 so 62 drive away and the performance top-end model about 80 81,000 drive away in New
South Wales mine was in a nevus blue not a bad color yep mine was sort of the beige you watch
what's the beige your color called um if it's the same as a rafael beige that's what it was
here's the interesting thing mine and we've had this with a lot of these especially the Chinese
cars because you you know the ADAS is going to be annoying right yes much love to the people at
MG Motor for the way they've designed the screen system in the IM-5 and 6 so you've got a beautiful
big screen across both the driver info dash and infotainment and then there's a third screen down
where you might normally have you know knobs and dials for for things and that third screen is more
a control surface as opposed to infotainment and mate there's an ADAS button on that yeah so you
get in the car you've got to go yeah I agree to the world first and then you go ADAS turn off turn
off turn off warning okay agree yeah it's like so it's it's a few touches but every time you get
in the car it happens every time but it's there it's not dug in the menus yeah you're gonna need to
access it we both worked that out pretty quick big that's I think that's uh for a lot a lot of the
cars that are really overly you know with the safety features really over over indulging I don't
know it was so easy to find to turn off I turned it off straight away I know the first time I got in
it I didn't turn it off so I drove home and how was with all the bells and all the everything
turned on and it was yeah it was it got a little bit annoying quick yeah right and yeah the lane
keep was was pretty aggressive as well but that was the only really negative of the of the first
experience there the first impression it's an interesting thing IM because it's a it's a new
brand but they are putting the MG motor label on the back of it which is very smart do that yes
because honestly I think it's a stupid idea to introduce a brand new brand when we're only at
the got a brand start of this you got a brand but MG is doing so well yeah with both petrol
and electric cars why didn't they just call this the MG 7 well did we did we discuss this earlier
did they want to have like a Toyota Lexus kind of approach here but you're not Toyota you're
bloody MG yeah stop being arrogant I think I got stopped there was a guy outside your office here
with the day he goes what is that car and I said imagine MG is now it is and I said look it says
it MG motor on the car yeah because the main badge said IM with the fancy design of the logo yeah
see it doesn't you can't doesn't read like IM their logo doesn't read as IM you didn't know what
it says presented by MG motor yeah which is like Toyota saying this is a Lexus presented by Toyota
but they never said that yeah they just it was just a new brand stood alone I I just think it's
smacks of arrogance to say we're so good that we can reintroduce a premium brand when they should
have just so Kia for example you know the Kia Carnival at $64,000 five six years ago was the most
expensive Kia you could buy yeah but today you can buy a hundred and twenty thousand dollar EV9
and eighty thousand dollar EV they didn't go oh let's just keep selling like they just went
it's a freaking Kia that's fair that's fair enough and I think that I think they would win more
popularity if they win it's an MG but a beautifully premium top end MG it's the seven or the eight or
the nine or whatever maybe is that the case though that they wanted to have that separation
of between their affordable EV sort of you know working class sort of vehicle and this sort of
more luxurious because it is it is really nice it's a very beautiful car inside really nice
seats and interior and exterior doesn't look like an MG no not at all I was I was saying to my wife
who who loved the car she said this is beautiful I said if you put a Mercedes badge on that wheel
this is a hundred and twenty thousand dollar car yeah with a Mercedes badge on it mate it's a
beautiful interior yeah I'll give them that really nice it's a it's a lovely drive it's not the best
drive I've ever had no but it's a good drive yeah I wouldn't put it in my top 10 drive I had did I
have the the dual but it was mostly don't know yeah this is it actually had performance not
performance either so it went very well yep here's the stupid thing the boot and I don't
this wouldn't apply to the MG IM6 but the IM5 mate the boot's tiny tiny tiny so I went overseas
Stig and I two two suitcases wouldn't shut laid flat because the the wheels on the on the one at
the back was so close to the top it just wouldn't shut so a couple of times I just push it down
you know those times where it detects it and goes no I can't shut now yeah so you just push the
body thing down it goes well I actually took Aaron to the airport him and his fiance and we had
opened up the back of the IM6 and plenty room in there didn't have to drop a seat there are two
massive suitcases fit in the back quite easily yeah yeah um yeah I mean I think for the price you
know at an entry level 61 thousand dollars for the sedan is you know pretty competitive it's
Tesla money right yeah and up to 670 kilometers range that's nedc range and uh the IM6 it goes
zero to 103.4 what's the WLTP range uh I can't see that's what really matters yeah but look I remember
seeing on the dash it hit WLTP is 490 on the on the premium fully fully charged and ready to go
yeah it was about 490 something on well I saw because I had it on kilometers not percentage
yeah I don't think you even have it on percentage well that's the thing where you sometimes can't
even work out whether you are um I prefer how do you what do you prefer to see a percentage or to
see actual kilometers percent I prefer they they should both be there they should both be there
yeah I agree like on in the Kia that I drive it's got a big number of the kilometers and then
somewhere there's a percent yeah one little quirky thing it made me laugh every time I got in the car
whenever I put the my phone on the wireless charger it thought I was trying to buy something and my
credit card always keeps to come up to george is that no it didn't I'm thinking is it charging me
every time I'm is it is am I paying money every time I drive the car but again here's my other
quirky annoyance it's it's over engineered you you approach the car the handles come out with
these friggin electric door handles yeah and the worst part is I'm used to that now but the worst
part is they're not mechanical door handles yeah so there's actually a sensor on the inside of the
handle when you touch it it clicks the door partly open and then you pull the door so it's not
actually a mechanical that's just there for show lever it's right you're right yeah it may as well
just I thought I thought I misopened it yeah I'm thinking oh hang on well speaking of buttons
there's a button to get out as well annoying and that just bamboozled my mother I'm thinking
how do I get out I said I said I see that button over there it was a tiny button yeah I said uh
sticking the kids I'm like it's it's where your thumb would be if you if yeah so you kind of get it
there um but you know this in terms of comparing to the model three yeah uh which is where they have
to be this is $6,000 more than the base model model three yeah but you know what doesn't make
sense to compare the model three as we all know I think the model three would be smaller yeah it's
also quite spartan inside like there's not half the the features and the the the screens and all
that inside the car this this looks like while it's an electric car it looks still like a normal
car when you get in yeah the screens they're being there as well uh and I gotta say I was very
impressed with the size of the car like I'm a big guy I fit in this really nice it was quite
comfortable to drive yeah plenty of room in the back as well I had passengers quite often when I
had the car so it was uh space wise I think big tick comfort another big tick yeah mate great cars
I just personally I think it's a challenge for them at this price point yeah there's like Zika
Polestar um Kia there's a lot of cars a lot of competition and I think you're right I think you
if I'm MG I'm just staying in my lane I'm just selling quantity and quantity no pun intended
absolutely uh in my lane I just feel like so is that why you were saying they should have stuck
to the branding stuck to the branding so you know that it's uh know that it's an MG right I feel this
is I know my guts saying that they they did this deliberately because the perception of MG now is
sort of these sort of affordable you know EVs and maybe really price competitive and maybe they
know that they're not trying to sell to the mass public trying to sell to the MG owner
they're trying to sell them up like Toyota did perhaps yeah Toyota didn't want people to go to a
BMW when they when they earned more money they wanted to stay in the family I've got to say though
I got a lot of compliments with the car people who saw the car they go that's really nice they really
liked it yeah I don't talk to people so I wouldn't know now I remember parking at whatever I was at
you know out by Westfields or whatever or wherever I was going even my neighbors my neighbor came out
and said oh mate what do you got this for your neighbors your mother-in-law what are you talking
my other neighbors they all they see all the different cars I have and that this one in particular
court they're right I said oh that's that's really nice what is that yeah our neighbors see all the
cars when I first moved into my neighborhood there was a lot of questions in the Facebook
they think Trev is a drug dealer he's got that many cars anyway great cars well worth a look um
I am by MG is the best way to find them if you google them but I am is the brand doesn't look
like it on the logo I am five and I am six is what we had you actually like you six but I am five
there's a joke somewhere I am six yeah I am Sam I am anyway it says I'm I'm six I'm five I'm six
two bikes talking electric cars we'd love to hear from you oh four double seven six five seven six
five seven after this we'll talk to state of EVs with the Australian Electric Vehicle Council
there he is Steven Fennick on the drums two bikes talking electric cars thanks to the great
people at NRA main insurance and you then smart dash cams it is it is a very important time of
year the EV council of Australia have put together an overwhelmingly complex report into the state of
EVs and I mean that in the most generous possible way Steven it's a very comprehensive report all
113 pages of it absolutely amazing weekend reading you know that's right and a lot of a lot of good
stats and facts information so we thought we'd we'd have a chat to them a man go from the EV
council the head of legal policy joins us on the line good a man how you doing thanks so much boys
lovely to be here mate really really appreciate it so let's just talk headlines first what what
do we know year on year about the EV market in Australia yeah first of all thank you for having
me on I think the value of the state of EVs is that we have a really exciting industry in Australia
but there's a lot of misinformation and there isn't really one source of truth the value of the
state of EVs in its ninth year is that it gives people in Australia across the industry but government
the great population of Australia as well a place to go and get some really hard figures
so I'm pleased to give some information on that let me go into the hard facts so first of all in
terms of total EVs sold we've seen a 24% increase on EVs sold in the first six months of this year
compared to the same period last year so it's up to 72,800 sold in the first six months of this year
secondly in terms of market share that's now up to 12% of all new vehicle sales being electric
and that's a 25% increase on the same figure last year which was 9.6 that's a really great
piece of news I think for everyone in this industry the third thing I'd say is in terms of
infrastructure and we really know that that is so critical to giving people comfort in getting out
in their EVs the number of locations so an actual site that has a piece of infrastructure
and the number of plugs so the actual I guess thing that you would use to yeah exactly have
both gone up so locations are now 1,300 almost and plugs are almost 4,200 both of those numbers
have gone up by over 20% now if you want to point me towards another industry in Australia that has
20 plus percent increase in just one year I think we'd be talking about it much more positively
than some sections of Australia's media choose to yeah that's true so I take it from that last
comment that there's still a little bit of animosity is it or just the the home the myths in
the market people haven't fully uh or not say drinking the Kool-Aid but they're not really
accepting all the benefits of the EV what EVs offer is that is that what you're saying here
I think it's a lack of constructivity from some observers so a lot of people I think are not
understanding where the industry is at at the moment and the value of an EV but are choosing
to misrepresent the value of EVs and choosing to highlight aspects that you know are either
overblown or not entirely accurate so whether it's about charging infrastructure or the price of
cars they will often lean on the negative aspect rather than looking at it critically and constructively
can we just clarify I guess in terms of the definition for you guys of an EV my understanding
is that a hybrid car without plug-in is not classified by you as an EV but a plug-in hybrid
included in your numbers so the BYD Shark 6 for example would have played a huge role in in this
year's numbers and growth because that has been an absolute gangbuster for BYD and plug-in hybrids
form a really important part of the ecosystem you're right Trevor so our definition is that if it
can be charged up with electricity with a plug that's an EV now the reason we take that approach
is for two reasons one is the international energy agency and other jurisdictions around the world
which is the right way to go on this take that as the definition secondly what we're seeing in
the plug-in hybrid I guess sub-sector is that technology is moving quite fast a couple of
years ago plug-in hybrids could do 30 40 kilometers and now we're seeing options that can do up to
100 and perhaps soon more so soon potentially who knows the that that nature of distinction may
fall apart altogether this is really exciting industry and I think we're hearing that battery
ranges themselves are potentially going to go northward as well in the next generation of
technology so yes we do consider both plug-in hybrid electric vehicles and battery electric
vehicles to be EVs but we do not consider a petrol hybrid to be an EV these are very very
impressive numbers Amman and these are obviously just numbers for Australia how do we compare to
the rest of the world are we sort of at the same pace as other countries say the US or are we lagging
behind yeah so the global average is roughly 25% of new vehicle sales being electric and of course
12% this year means that we're about roughly half of that the nature of the Australian market you've
seen the report is that we really didn't have an Australian market about four or five years ago you
so in 2021 percentage of new vehicle sales that were electric was a little under 4% this year it's
12% we've seen a four-fold increase in just four years and that's thanks to the government's really
pivotal vehicle efficiency standards and the electric car discount so we started slow we started
late potentially because of a lack of effective mechanisms to encourage manufacturers to bring
good product here but we're catching up pretty quickly so thinking of the I guess the the growth
I mean I'll come back to the plug-in hybrids for a second but you know it's it's always been
to me the best on-ramp to electric vehicles for people to even if they're they're skeptical about
electric vehicles because the plug-in hybrid allows you to have the benefits of the electric
in full around town for most of you daily drives but is there a worry though that we have too many
plug-in hybrids and not enough people using them as electrics on their data to hate because they
just don't bother turning them yeah I think that's a really critical point driver I think we do need
to be informing consumers and I just want to make a small tangential point that we're asking the
great majority of Australians to consider EVs and it's a new form of technology for a lot of people
so we do need to have an education information information piece about how to use an EV in a
way that most benefits them in terms of finances and their local community but also the national
interest in electrifying transport so your point about how do we inform people well yes
when it comes to plug-in hybrid technology we strongly recommend the people charge their car
as often as they can to get that economic value but that value in terms of carbon emissions
and local air pollution so I agree with you on that point further example I had on this was
quite a funny one where I play cricket in Melbourne sort of west and one of my friends his
partner bought a plug-in hybrid car I won't mention the brand but it's gone really well for her
because she lives out in the country and she's often going back to visit family and she felt
confident enough to move into electric knowing that she wanted to do something good for her
pocket and for her community but she wasn't sure if there'd be enough charges now putting to one
side I think sometimes that view is misplaced I think plug-in hybrid electric vehicles can act
as an on-ramp for people who fall in that type of category it's a complex one because we also
need to then be alerting people to the fact that the vast majority of them only drive 30 to 40
kilometers a day and they need to be buying cars that really suit their lifestyle and not some
you know advertised lifestyle of them driving across the Nullarbor.
In terms of the well the EV numbers are impressive for the sales what do you put that down to? Is it
the prices have come down for the cars? Is it the fact that there are a lot more charges visible
out there in the community? Is it the savings on their running costs? What's the driving factor
you reckon that's bringing people to EVs? Yeah I think that point you mentioned about
charges being more visible that's probably something we could do better at and I think not
so much for EV drivers but for the general population so if you had signs that were more
visible in terms of where EV charges were that would address I think in some part that charge
or anxiety that parts of the population might feel you can't understand something or can't
know something there if you're not signaled to it and that's something I think the industry
and government should consider more. In terms of the the number of your question I think
one of the main factors has been the vehicle efficiency standards getting manufacturers to
bring their best product to Australia so in the last report in 2024 we said there were 123 models
of EVs available in Australia that's now at 153 so we've gone past 50 and our report actually
detailed every single one that's available and tells you its battery range how quickly can be
charged so it's a really great compadium if you just want to look at the different models and
makes that are available so I think the efficiency standards have been the linchpin but obviously
the electric car discount has helped a lot of Australians to step into an EV and effectively
reduce their cost of transport when we've been the middle of a inflation crunch that's been
experienced by everyone. You work specifically in the kind of legal and policy area of the
community council what what is the situation currently with the new vehicle efficiency standards
because it was controversial when it was announced and introduced some major car brands still very
anti-it don't believe it's actually going to have an effect on emissions let alone anything else
but clearly it's doing something although you know a lot of the brands we look at in your
you know table of sales are electric car brands so they're not really too fast about the efficiency
standards other than the fact they might be able to make some money is that right selling credits
to the petrol based companies? Yeah so factually the efficiency standards started on the 1st of
January this year and then the period within which penalties will be analysed started on the 1st of
July right so there were six months of sort of a lead-in and then from the 1st of July was appeared
that vehicle sales will be analysed before penalties actually start to be calculated if you will
in 2028 so there's a bit of time while sales are ongoing that manufacturers we're seeing
change their profiles of products available in Australia a lot of products have suddenly started
appearing in Australia that were only available in Europe or only available in America and I think
that's a really positive causation of the vehicle efficiency standards that they've created a business
model and a reason for manufacturers to bring their best electric stock here in terms of the
implementation of Envers we're really excited for it I think it's helping Australians get into
good EVs what will be critical is that next year there will be a review of Envers to see how it's
and will obviously be deeply involved in that work alongside our members and I would encourage all
advocates and supporters of this industry and supporters of decarbonising our country and
making it stronger to get behind and get involved in that in that consultation process with government
and be speaking loudly about the benefits of implementing Envers for those who are not aware
the way that Envers works is essentially if you bring in a certain number of cars you measure the
carbon dioxide intensity of that fleet that you've brought in and year on year the mandated
standard drops so this year it's 141 grams of carbon dioxide per kilogram that will continue
dropping through to 2029 and if you happen if the cars that you're bringing into Australia
are above that standard then you may have to pay penalties if you're beneath that then obviously
you will get credits that you can trade out so it's a really good scheme we think for setting up
long-term business models for these manufacturers who operate a really significant industry that
needs long-term certainty and just to be clear on that fleet when you mention it if I'm a big
company I'm selling hundreds of thousands of cars a year it's the total of each of those individual
cars it's not the fact that I've got 10 models and five of them are hybrid or plug-in it's it's
if I've got five petrol models that are selling 99 percent of my fleet that's not going to work
well for me I've got to sell the efficient vehicles don't I which is hopefully going to
drive prices of the electric vehicles down because they've got to get them out they can't just bring
them into the country they've got to get them out don't they exactly exactly so I think what we're
seeing is an increased diversity of models we're not just seeing one model come forth from a
manufacturer we're seeing you know legacy manufacturers and new manufacturers bring out
several different types to different types of lifestyle so I'm really excited that this year
we'll likely have an electric car in Australia that's selling in the 20s we've already got electric
cars that are selling in the 30s and 40s in terms of thousands of dollars and then some of the more
expensive cars that were quite expensive a few years ago are significantly more affordable you
know the average new car whether it's electric or petrol in Australia is 55k and I think you're
seeing a lot of electric cars that are now under that 55k the secondary point I'd make is that
the electric car discount has meant that we're coming to the end of the first phase of it
and a lot of people who purchase cars through that those cars are now going on to the second
hand market where the majority of Australians buy cars so I would say that the market is going
through a slight maturation where we're seeing more models come in but we're also seeing the
second hand market increase in terms of where that's up to we're seeing that yesterday it was
noted that electric second hand the second hand market sales in the month just gone increased by
roughly eight percent so there is more supply coming on that level as well. In terms of incentives
do you think there are enough incentives out there is the government other governments the
federal government and the state governments doing enough to increase that incentive to buy an EV?
Yeah one of the biggest parts of the state of EV's report is we actually go out to the government
departments across all jurisdictions and say please tell us what you're doing we feel like we
keep a pretty good tracker of what you're doing but please tell us in case we miss something and
then we assess that across a range of criteria so passenger vehicles commercial infrastructure
or as well as things like buses for example and we've got an EV policy scorecard in the
document now what you'll see when you open that up is that essentially the Commonwealth
is leading the way the Commonwealth gets an eight out of ten on that scorecard disappointingly going
to your question the rest of the jurisdictions are not doing enough and the truth in that is that
all of them have pulled off incentives in the last 12 months so we have a situation where the
federal government has got the efficiency standards and electric car discount but in our three levels
of government in this country and the state and territories unfortunately are not doing as much
as they need to be doing and we do argue strongly that the pullback of those incentives was premature
and we need to revisit those measures very happy to talk about some of those measures
the main point I'd make is that there is no one unicorn policy you know we're trying to get
different people are incentivized by different things right?
100% 100% and there's so many different types of a transport user you know some people want to use
their car for x reason or somebody wants to use it for y reason and we also have to consider the
commercial sector so there's no one policy that would solve things some things would have a bigger
impact but we really do need federal state and territory and then local government
to be working together and pushing the one direction rather than just one tier
well I was literally going to talk about the incentives at the moment as well because you
talk in the report about the FBT and the potential that it's under threat and you talk about the
estimation that it might be a response for one in every four EV sold in Australia but there's also
another chart I don't have it in front of me there was another chart I'm sure in the state of EVs
report by the Electric Vehicle Council that talked about New Zealand and they had some great incentives
and you plot EV sales on this chart and they're extra excellent excellent and then the incentives
stop and the and the sales stop as well that's obviously the concern here but how do you counter
that with the idea that people say well if they need to be incentivized well why are we selling
why should the government be incentivizing people to get a new car when there might be a
trip of petrol car out there and people are wasting their money yeah so let me for those
listening along the excellent graphs that you pointed to is on page 20 of this year's report
and it shows that when a road user charge are really badly implemented and badly designed
road user charge was implemented in New Zealand in the month of November 23 we saw new vehicle
sales of electric cars being just a little over 45 percent in the following quarter in FEB they were
back down under 10 percent so that's the effect of bad policy making when it comes to electric
vehicle uptake please have a look at that graph I think it tells yeah I'm looking at it right now
as a matter of fact yeah dramatic drop from November 2023 to February 2024 and that's the
kind of thing you're worried about obviously here because we've got you know obviously the
FBT thing is great and we hear it from listeners almost every single week people talk about you
know the the fringe benefit tax the novated lease whatever it might be there's reasons people make
these decisions and then let's talk about the road user charge because you mentioned that as being
reportedly implemented in New Zealand but look I I have a weirdly strong view that we need a road
user charge because I look at it from a financial perspective and I go how's the government going
to replace the 20 billion dollars in fuel excise if we do go fully electric so I think we need to
have a plan to work towards that point you know that might be 15 20 years away but if we don't
start talking about it now and my belief again to put it on the record is everyone like scrap the
FBT or use the road scrap the fuel excise and charge every single car on the road a road user
tax where are we at today with the road usage charge for electric vehicles if not all vehicles
yeah so if you give me the the opportunity I do want to point out some of the I think
misconceptions in this conversation about road user charging so some of the hard facts are these
in financial year 20 financial year 2015 the federal government collected roughly 14 billion
dollars of fuel tax fuel tax excise right that has risen dramatically in the last 10 years the
federal government in the last financial year collected close to 24 billion dollars that's
an increase in 9 billion dollars now why have we not seen that in the way of gold plating our roads
hopefully it's because a large part of that increase has gone to off-road diesel vehicles
through fuel tax credits so I think when we look at the leakage from collection of fuel
fuel excise we do need to be asking within the concept of fairness why is it when you me and
listeners these podcasts are paying for fuel excise at the bowser when they might be driving a
petrol car but it's actually going to the benefit of people who aren't using the road as well right
that's the first point I make the second point I make is a lot of the big cars big petrol cars
that do damage to our roads that weigh you know over three and a half tons they don't even pay the
luxury car tax even though they're eligible for it so this is the type of like leakage that we need
to be asking questions of when it comes to the maintenance of our roads and we obviously know
that fuel excise is consolidated revenue that goes towards health hospital and schools so
I'd love to see that 9 billion dollars going back towards things that benefit the community
rather than fuel tax credits for polluting vehicles used by miners that's the first point
the second thing I do agree with you I think in the future the nirvana is that Australia is able
to secure our economy by having a close to electrified fleet in 2035 and that we have a well
designed road user charge for all vehicles what we do need to focus on though is designing one
that does not create the type of outcome that happened in New Zealand and we are very closely
working with the federal government and the state and territories to make sure that at the bureaucratic
and the political level that we design one that encourages the uptake of EVs the EVC was very
closely involved in the engagements leading up to the council of ministers communicated
a couple of weeks ago which was really important because it put a red line around the development
of a road user charge it crucially in the very first paragraph said any development of a road
user charge must not deter the uptake of EVs and so that's our north star that is the north
star we must work towards and we will continue to work closely with this federal government which
is a supporter of this industry to develop a well designed physically responsible road user charge
that helps the uptake of EVs in the national interest these are very positive figures in the
report putting the looking into the crystal ball can can you see that these figures will we sustain
these into the future is it just going to get even better or are we going to plateau or what's your
prediction I was listening to obviously been listening to sapiens on on Spotify the audiobook
and the point I took out from it was that nothing is predetermined when it comes to
technological transformation or human history it's a bit of a it's a bit of a high level
point to make to your very direct question but I think what I'm trying to say is that nothing
in terms of the transition away from coal or petrol is predetermined we need to fight for every
small step like we did with the vehicle efficiency standards and with the fbt so I think in terms
of where we go from here it really comes down to the listeners on this podcast it comes out to
organizations like ours and the fantastic work you guys do to speak about the value of electrifying
transport and how it can cut people's transport costs but also make our country less focused on
importing oil and less dependent on foreign oil producers but also creating a local jobs
industry and battery manufacturing battery recycling there's a whole suite of benefits
to electrification and until we do that opportunity we'll do that task of speaking to our neighbors
speaking to our families and speaking to the general community about it we won't be able to get
there so I'm really optimistic because I think there's just so much good to come out of the EV
industry and so much riding on it but it does require everyone you know listening to this podcast
in our wider communities to do that work if you look at sales of purely electric vehicles or
BEVs battery electric vehicles as you refer to them so we're talking about no petrol just electric
for the listener in 2022 the numbers of sales were far lower like I'm talking less than 4%
and they jumped so so dramatically in 2023 to over 7% what is it that's going to get us the
next big jump because I think BEV sales have just grown gradually whereas the plug-in hybrids have
taken a big share of the load of the numbers that you're able to share but I feel like we need
another big jump there if we're going to hit these these goals and targets do you think and I'm
just going to you know project myself here but I think it's about price I think it's almost
entirely about price we've got great news from BYD who frankly lead the market here in every sense
they're going to bring the add-oh one here so that's got to be a I mean it's going to be a $25,000
car probably maybe even less is it that is that what we need more at the bottom end or is there
just more volume more cars more manufacturers that we need to really take that BEV number you know
frankly past 15% yeah I would love to see in the next year that we're reporting back to you that
EV sales cumulatively are past the low teens into the high teens that's kind of the short-term
goal that we'd have and in terms of how we get there we really hope that battery electric vehicles
are leading that charge because they're ultimately the best type of EV to drive how are we going to
get there and there's will definitely be part of it because we're seeing every week as you mentioned
a new type of EV enter the market and provide more competition provide more opportunities for
different types of Australians to experience the value nonetheless I do think charging infrastructure
is a large part of this and developing a national charging roadmap and coming up with a model of
funding charging infrastructure that allow for private operators governments and the community
to have confidence when they get out and about that would be I think one of the key steps to
addressing the the charger anxiety that perhaps exists in the community much broader than that I
think there's a couple of other things that we could be doing in the immediate term first of all
we have been speaking about government messaging to the community about banning the
registration of petrol and diesel cars after 2035 so I want to be really careful here what we're
suggesting is 2035 you should not be able to register a new battery electric so a new petrol
car right so if you bought today you've got time you can use it you can use it after 2035 but
what we need to do is explain to the community about the need to electrify and then give them 10
years to find the right car for them when their necks need to buy a car when their necks need to
buy a used car and make the right choice so I think it's a range of immediate measures such as
retaining the electric car discount designing a good road user charge policy but also messaging
to the community about where we're trying to go as a country big bold plan 2035 that's uh
doesn't rattle 10 years it's like it is in line with the UK and France these are countries that
we compare ourselves okay we are obviously these are like these countries and we work with them
on issues like this so it's entirely consistent with uh our sister countries uman really insightful
stuff you you know this stuff like the back of your hand obviously because we're just throwing
stuff out you here without any preempting and you know it also mate that's obviously why you're in
charge of the the policy team at the electric vehicle council uh mate great work on the report
it is genuinely impressive as you say it's actually a really great companion for people
who are interested in the space and we have a lot of listeners who don't have an EV
they're thinking about it they're worried about it they're interested in it whatever it is
what an unbelievable thing to digest maybe over a cold one on the weekend but uh you know 100 pages
and as you said it's not just 100 pages of data and graphs it's actually
cars it's listing the cars that you can buy and uh all those kind of things so it's really really
valuable information and it's a year-on-year thing and we will uh we will challenge and
follow the information year on year as you bring it out mate so really appreciate you joining us
and and sharing the details with us today thanks mate thank you very much and thank you for the
opportunity for those who don't have that much time there is a two-page fact sheet
well now you tell us mate well now you tell us
you read all those pages before just search for these electric vehicle council and you'll
find it all um um thanks for your time thank you boys thank you mate
that's great information loved talking to a man there if you want to find out more the electric
vehicle council dot com dot au and as you said there is a two page there is a two page that
would have been somewhere yeah but now you tell us here i wasted a hundred pages of paper
printing that thing out 13 pages yes yeah as steven said i could have printed just the pages i wanted
but that's okay yeah that's right yeah it's kind of i'll teach you how to do that it's not a good
idea really is it when you're trying to talk about saving the planet with electric cars and i'm just
yeah he just killed the forest anyway no but it is it is genuinely a great report it is genuinely
a great insight if you are in the market for ev it's good it'll help you with information for
those conversations you're having with people as well so great to hear from him and we'll talk to
julie delvecchio the the boss of the ev council soon as well just to i think we need to talk a little
bit more about the the lobbying side of the ev council and where they're going with so the road
usage um charge which is something we talked to a man about a little bit the new vehicle
emissions standard and just generally what the industry needs to do what incentives that could
be offered yeah and i think just generally the industry and what they need to do to to help this
market because we hear so many weird kind of negative things from dealership level and stuff
yeah you know and also as a man said in the media too that's a reporter's pretty narky reporting
yeah and the ev council is small they're not a they're not uh they don't have funding from all of
the vendor all of the manufacturers so it's very hard to get uh i guess representation so we will
catch up with julie in the in the time ahead but uh until then we uh we have lots more to get through
here on future weeks of the two blokes doing electric cars steven why don't we do it all again
next week i'll be right here next week we'll talk about my trip to ferrari and we'll have a chat with
jamaria fulgenzi who is the chief product development officer i'll take your word for it
oh okay fair enough see you then mate ciao
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